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Status: O

There are 32 messages totalling 1187 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Battle of Malta (6)
  2. INF: USN Chronology 08-02-94
  3. INF: 50 Years Ago - 03-AUG-1944
  4. Saltpeter (3)
  5. Malta
  6. RAF Training Command
  7. INF: Fessin' Up
  8. NOST: Shameless promotion
  9. INF: Periodicals
 10. USAAF ranks (2)
 11. Mislabeling the fake movie [was Fake Photographs] (2)
 12. Finland/Mea Culpa (was Warsaw Rising)
 13. WWII FLIGHT JACKETS (2)
 14. Third Reich Body doubles
 15. German 88mm AT cannon (2)
 16. JEWS - DISPLACED PERSONS, 1945-1948.
 17. Dirty Little Secrets
 18. HIST: JEWISH REPATRIATION IN POLAND (2)
 19. NOST: Another Shameless Plug
 20. [INF] USAAF 3 AUG 44

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 1 Aug 1994 21:05:39 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Battle of Malta

Emmanuel...
        "Faith, Hope, and Charity" were rather something more than an
"rban legend".
        Quoting from THE SECOND GREAT WAR: A Standard History,
                by Sir John Hammerton
                Amalgamated Pres, London
                Volume 5

        "On May 8, 1942, Malta had its 2,300th air-raid, and few days later
Air Chief Marshal Sir Arthur Longmore told for the first time some remarkable
facts about the early days of the island's battle with Axis raiders.
        It had been thought that the operation of any fighter defence from
Malta would be out of the question, because of the close proximity to Sicily.
There were no aircraft on the island when Italy entered the war, and Air Vice
Marshal Maynard and a small nucleus of RAF officers remained. Incensed by
Italian bombers cruising overhead, these officers searched the dockyards and
found some packing cases in which were parts of Gloster Gladiators.
        Four of these aircraft were assembled, and after a few practic flights,
the pilots took off on real business. They met with immediate success against
the next lot of Italians to fly over the island outpost..."

        Hammerton's THE SECOND GREAT WAR, Volume 6, mentions:
        "...The growth of the RAF in Malta was remarkable.When Italy entered
the war, there were said to be only three Gloucester Galdiators then available on the island.
        The aircraft were given by the Maltese the nicknames 'Faith', 'Hope',
        and 'Charity', and brought down several Italian planes...."


--

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 01:29:32 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 08-02-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
08/02 Wed.  United States naval vessel sunk:
             Destroyer escort FISKE (DE-143), by submarine torpedo,
              North Atlantic area,
              47 d. 11'N., 33 d. 29'W.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 06:53:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: Battle of Malta

 >The battle of Malta -- perhaps more properly a 'siege' -- lasted over two
 >years.
 >Air raids by Italian and german aircraft killed over 2500 people -- half of
 >them Maltese civilians, the rest British and Canadian servicemen.
 >A fair number of Canadian fighter-pilots served with RAF units there.
 >One became the best known -- George F. "Buzz" Buerling.
 >His rank was Sergeant Pilot when he arrived in Malta, June 9, 1942, having

<< MUCH DELETED >>

Question involving rank in the RAF and Commonwealth Air Forces during WWII.

I have read various books that mention pilots in the RAF and Commonwealth
Air Forces with the rank of Pilot Officer (USAAF 2nd Lieutenant) and
Sergeant Pilot.  What was the criteria for giving a pilot his rank;
education, how well he did in training, etc.?

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 05:56:19 -0700
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 03-AUG-1944

On 03-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - Units of the VIII Corps (US 3rd Army) press on towards the
     west. The 8th Division attacks Rennes; while the 4th Armoured Division
     move on south of the city. The VII Corps (US 1st Army) takes Mortain.
     Further north, the XIX and V Corps advance southeast in the river Vire
     area. In the British sector, the 40th and 53rd Divisions (VII Corps) take
     positions on the road between Villers-Bocage and Caen.

Eastern Front - The 1st Ukraine Front crosses the Vistula at Sandomierz and
     establish a bridgehead over the river.

Marianas - On Guam, the 77th Infantry Division is advancing on the right
     flank and take Barrigada. The 3rd Marine Division moves ahead quickly on
     the left flank, occupying Finegayan and push on towards Tumon Bay. Mount
     Santa Rosa is shelled by navy ships.

New Guinea - In the Aitape sector, the Americans attack towards the Torricelli
     Mountains along the Niumen stream. The Japanese offensive actions around
     the village of Afua is dying down.

Burma/China - The Chinese 50th Division takes Myitkyina, capturing 187
     Japanese. The rest of the garrison has either escaped or been killed. The
     struggle in this area has cost the Chinese and Americans more than 6,500
     killed and wounded but is a very important victory for the Allies, since
     it reopens land communications between India and China. On the river
     Salween front, the Chinese 8th Army attacks Teng-chung and Sung Shan.

Foreign Affairs
---------------
King George Returns Home - King George VI has returned to England from a tour
     of the Italian battlefront.

The Homefront
-------------
Army Takes Over In Philadelphia - President Roosevelt has ordered the Army to
     take control of the Philadelphia Transportation Co. in a strike of 6,000
     workers which has tied up 900,000 war workers. CIO Transportation
     Workers Union officials disavow the strike and admit that they can no
     longer control the strikers.

Boxer Dies Of Ring Injuries - Lem Franklin, Negro heavyweight, died in a
     Newark, N.J. hospital of injuries received in the ring. He was knocked
     out July 24 in a bout with Larry Lane of Trenton, N.J.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  (jbd@netcom.com/jbd@osbm.state.nc.us)
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 09:04:06 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <dan.ford@UNH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Battle of Malta

On Tue, 2 Aug 1994, mc killop wrote:
> Question involving rank in the RAF and Commonwealth Air Forces during WWII.
> I have read various books that mention pilots in the RAF and Commonwealth
> Air Forces with the rank of Pilot Officer (USAAF 2nd Lieutenant) and
> Sergeant Pilot.  What was the criteria for giving a pilot his rank;
> education, how well he did in training, etc.?

Not to be too cynical, but judging by the situation in Burma in 1941=42,
the RAF commissioned gentlemen, and colonials were almost never
considered gentlemen.

Thus RAF 67 Squadron (Buffalo) in Rangoon consisted of a British squadron
leader and two British flight lieutenants and three British flying
officers (in US Army terms: major, capt, and 1st lt respectively).
Everyone below that rank was RNZAF and included six pilot officers (2nd
lt), with the rest being sergeants to a total of 15.

When RAF 17 Squadron (Hurricane) came in, its makeup was even more
interesting. Sq Ldr Stone was of course British, but Flt Lt Cotton was
RAAF. Of the pilot officers six were British and three were RCAF,
including an American named Thomas.

There were also two 2nd Lts of the South African Air Force--not Royal,
you'll notice! I assume that had something to do with the Afrikaan
population.

Of the sergeant pilots, three were British, one was RAAF, and six were
RCAF including three Americans: Gibson, Barrick, and Wisrodt. Barrick was
still alive a couple years ago but to my sorrow I have never been able to
contact him.

Okay, the figures don't entirely back up my thesis, but you get the idea.
The RAF in 1941-42 was still a gentleman's club, with the colonials
having the higher hurdle to get in.

            - Dan      <dan.ford@unh.edu>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 08:08:48 CDT
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Saltpeter

I'm in the middle of a conversation regarding saltpeter and possible use
by the military during the past 50 years by the military.  Does anybody
have anything that confirms or denies it other than stories like "I have
a friend who is a cook and he says.....".  For those of you not in the
know--saltpeter is supposed to dramatically reduce the sex drive of
males given it.  I'm looking for something that can be cited.

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 06:24:41 -0700
From:    Patrick Charles <pchuck@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Malta

        The name of the Book is "To War in a Stringbag" by Charles Lamb.
I guess stringbag was the affectionate name for the Swordfish.

Patrick Charles
University of Washington
pchuck@u.washington.edu


> I also remember reading the autobiography of a former Swordfish pilot,
> named (If my memory does not fail) Lamb. Most of the book is about his
> experiences in the Atlantic, the Mediterranean, Greece, North Africa and a
> POW camp in French North-Africa, but there is also an interesting story
> about the time when he commanded a Swordfish unit on Malta. I don't
> remember the title, but anyway, it was a translation, and the *Dutch*
> title wouldn't help you much. Does someone know the book?
>
> Emmanuel Gustin
>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 09:30:33 -0400
From:    Ron Babuka <wrb1@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: RAF Training Command

>        Maybe I have misunderstood this post.  The Empire Air Training
>Scheme was negotiated between Britain, Canada, Australia & New Zealand in
>Nov/Dec 1939. Although under clause XV of the Ottawa Agreement most
>Canadians went into RCAF squadrons rather than into RAF squadrons, the
>scheme was not 'doomed'.  It produced tens of thousands of aircrew for the
>allied cause.
>
Thank you Steve - My memory was foggy in that I could not remember if the
refusal of Mackenzie King to discuss the Empire Air Training Scheme occur
when first proposed in 1935 or 1939.  It was from 1935 till war actually
begun that the Canadian PM dismissed the plan.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka                                         National Warplane Museum
Cornell University                                 Geneseo, New York
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 10:22:15 -0500
From:    "W.C. (RUSTY) DIVENS" <ERCOUPE@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Saltpeter

>I'm in the middle of a conversation regarding saltpeter and possible use
>by the military during the past 50 years by the military.  Does anybody
>have anything that confirms or denies it other than stories like "I have
>a friend who is a cook and he says.....".  For those of you not in the
>know--saltpeter is supposed to dramatically reduce the sex drive of
>males given it.  I'm looking for something that can be cited.

Well Tim...

As a young 'un, I was mixing saltpeter, charcoal and sulfur in the
basement.  The resulting explosion nearly ended my sex drive for
good.  But I don't know if that counts in your survey...:^)

Bill (Rusty)
N93774@vms.cis.pitt.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 10:27:41 -0400
From:    Barone <m1b@SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: INF: Fessin' Up

        I received a few requests to post the German plans for the
invasion of Iceland but I cannot find the reference despite ransacking
my collecting of magazines.  I do remember lots of maps so it had to be
from "Command" but it may have been my friend's copy of the particular
issue.  Sorry I couldn't put up so I'll just shut up! :-)
--
Joe Barone
m1b@ssd.ray.com
This, gentlemen, is my counterpart, General Vogel.  When I look at his
face, I see a loser.  I'm sitting in his headquarters; I'm drinking his
wine; hell, I even have one of his broads hanging around here somewhere.
Yet you, gentlemen, have not buried him and I want to know why!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 10:38:43 -0400
From:    Ron Babuka <wrb1@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: NOST: Shameless promotion

** News Release **

        Now that a tentative agreement has been reached between the
National Warplane Museum and the Historical Aircraft Group (details to
follow), all focus is on the 14th annual Wings of Eagles Airshow, August
20th and 21st.  This year's show, held in Batavia NY, will growl with
excitement and offer a long list of aircraft making their first appearance
at the Wings of Eagles Airshow.

        One of the highlights of this year's show will be the beauty and
power of the Grumman "Cat" flight from Kalamazoo, Michigan.  It will mark
the first time ever appearance at the show for a Hellcat, Tigercat, and
Bearcat.  Along with Kalamazoo's Wildcat, the Gruman F-14 Tomcat is
expected to round out the extensive display of naval fighter aircraft.

        Another first at this year's show will be the presence of the P-38
Lightning.  Far and away, the most requested aircraft every year at the
Wings of Eagle Airshow has been the P-38.  The sleek twin engine fighter is
sure to bring a smile to the face of all air show goers.

        As always, the show will provide spectators with an opportunity to
see the largest gathering of warbirds in the Northeast.  This years list
includes: B-17, B-24, Lancaster, B-25, A-26, P-51, P-47, F4U, AT-6, PT-19
and many, many more.  Current military participation includes another
first...the F-15 Eagle demonstartion, as well as the F-117, B-52, and a
C-141 paratrooper jump.  As in the past, parking is free in Batavia and
there will be plenty of food, beverage, and displays.

        Batavia is centrally located between Buffalo and Rochester on the
New York State Thruway.  The Batavia airport is just a mile north of the
Thruway.  For more information, contact the National Warplane Museum at
(716)243-0690.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka                                         National Warplane Museum
Cornell University                                 Geneseo, New York
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 17:26:23 +0200
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@EVS1.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: INF: Periodicals

        AIR International
        Key Publishing
        PO Box 100, Stamford, Lincs PE9 1XQ, England
        (PO Box 353, Whitestone, NY 11357, USA)

A magazine for both civil and military aviation.  Most of its contents is
about current affairs, but there usually is one article about a historical
aircraft, well researched and with a great two-page cutaway drawing.  At
least it used to be; recently there have been some issues without it, and
I have some fears that the editors are abandoning slowly the historical
part.  Examples:  January and February:  Boeing 307 / C-97 Stratoliner;
March:  Blackburn Buccaneer; April: IAR-37/38/39; May:  none; June:
Supermarine Seafire F.45, 46 and 47; July: none.  Contents of the 1994
issue:  Royal Jordanian Airlines; Wild Weasel Phantoms; Thrust vectoring
trio (F-16, F-18, X-31); Baltic revival (Baltic airlines); East Meets West
(about cooperation efforts); RAH-66 Comanche; Business Air (a smal
Scottish airline); Fighter radars for the '90s.  Fixed ingredients are a
overview of what happened last month (six pages), the Fighter A to Z
series, a 'Flying Colours' contribution on aircraft markings; and book
reviews.  AI used to be better before its owner changed, but still is very
good. Price is now 2.10 pounds.


        Aeroplane Monthly
        IPS Magazines
        King's Reach Tower, Stamford Street, London SE1 9LS
        Subscriptions: Quadrant Subscriptions Services
                       PO Box 272, Oakfield House, Perrymount Road,
                       West Sussex RH16 3FS

British monthly publication, dedicated almost exclusively to British
aviation history, with of course a part of WWII contributions.  Normally
has a dozen-and-a-half longer articles, and of course aircraft
preservation news, books, comments, and the other normal additions. The
articles in the August 1994 issue were:  "Shootdowns", about US aircraft
shot down by WarPac defenses during the Cold War; "Atlantic Airship" about
the Atlantic crossing by the airship R34; "Wapiti and Wallace", part of a
series about the history of these inter-war bomber aircraft; "Red Arrows
Ancestry" about the British aerobatic teams; "The Battle of Braking
Creek", a fatal friendly-fire incident in September 1939; "Air Brushes"
about aviation painting; "Islander and Trislander" in their series about
airliners; "Flying the Dream Machine" about the BAC Canberra; and in
series about "Sling's Sailplanes", the Slingsby T.20 in this issue. A
relatively high proportion of their articles are personal accounts; e.g.
the article about the Canberra was written by a former Canberra pilot, who
tells about his training.  This issue was 72 pages; price is 2.30 pound
(14.50DM, 5.95 C$, it does not have a price in US$ on the cover)


        Flypast
        Key Publishing
        PO Box 100, Stamford, Lincolnshire, PE9 1XQ, UK

A competitor to 'Aeroplane Monthly', the same size, the same subject, a little
bit higher priced (2.35 pounds, 5.95C$).  It uses a smaller print and packs
more publicity, making it less pleasant to read; articles are also shorter.
But still a good magazine.  It generally has more WWII content. In the
August 1994 issue:  "Something added!" about a mysterious twin-engined Halifax;
"We stay with the pilot...", about the heroic death of an USAF NCO, Archie
Mathies; "Nocturnal Predator", about the P-61 Black Widow; "Place of Honour", a
C-47 in a Hong Kong museum; "Hot Rod", the Grumman F8F Bearcat; "It beats a
rockery" about someone who has a Vulcan cockpit in his garden; "Weekend
Sortie", the Battle of Britain memorial flight; "U Bendum, We Mendum", a repair
organization for B-25s during WWII; "Interstate Cadet", about this liaison
aircraft; and finally "Seagull", about the Supermarine Seagull flying boat.


        Le Fana de l'Aviation
        Editions Lariviere
        DOCAVIA, 15-17 Quai de l'Oise, 75166 Paris Cedex 19, France

French magazine, dedicated to French aviation history.  In French, of course.
They very often publish long, well-researched multi-part articles.  Several
historic articles, and some WWII, some more recent; always a flight test of a
historic aircraft, very often a study of an aviation museum.  Aout (August)
1994:  "La Naisance difficile du Yakovlev Yak-1", the 12-page start of a
history of the WWII Yakovlev fighters; "Saint Exupery:  La mission inachevee",
about the death of writer and pilot A.  de Saint Exupery; "John Romain et le
Britsol Blenheim", flight test of the Blenheim Z-WM (G-BPIV); "Les Mirage IIIR
et RD", history of the the recce version of this jet fighter; "Nancy; une
collection fait-elle un musee", about the museum of Nancy; "Le Douglas X-3
Stilletto", last part on this research aircraft, in their long series about the
X-aircraft.  28FF, or 9.25 C$.


Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 10:45:47 -0700
From:    John Holtz <holtz@EAGLE.SANGAMON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Battle of Malta

Do not forget:

Bennett, Ralph Francis.  Ultra and Mediterranean Strategy. (1988).

jwh

--
John W. Holtz, Asst. Professor       INTERNET: holtz@eagle.sangamon.edu
Sangamon State University Library       PHONE: (217) 786-6633
Springfield, IL  62794-9243

  > Opinions subject to change upon reflection or dissipation <

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 11:40:26 EDT
From:    "Dennis E. Sparks" <sparks@ALPHA.CAER.UKY.EDU>
Subject: USAAF ranks

Jack's question about RAF pilot ratings reminded me about my friend
Bobby Dodd, who flew Mustangs with the 8th AF's 352nd FG.  I called
Bobby to confirm this before posting to the list.

Bobby graduated from pilot training in mid 1945 at Aloe Field in
Victoria, Texas.  He was given the rank of Flight Officer, which he
indicated was equivalent to a Warrant Officer.  He said that Flight
Officer ratings were a minority in his class, with most being
commissioned as 2nd Lts.  He was told at the time that the rank was
given to pilots considered to be too immature to be an officer.

He arrived in England and was assigned to the "Bluenosed Bastards
of Bodney", the 352nd FG, in July 1944.  He remained a Flight Officer
until October, when he was promoted to 2nd Lt.  Twenty-three days
later he was promoted to 1st Lt. in a bar by George Preddy, the
group's leading ace.  Preddy was his C.O., and was shot down and
killed by friendly fire on Christmas Day, 1944.  Bobby stayed with
the group until VE Day.

Bobby noted that Preddy didn't care much for the Flight Officer
rating.  Bobby also told me that the cap insignia for a F.O. was
a blue bar with rounded corners, edged with gold, and with a gold
stripe across the middle.  He said that he and the other Flight
Officers didn't care for the insignia and replaced them with Lt.'s
bars, and that no one had complained about that.

Dennis E. Sparks
sparks@alpha.caer.uky.edu
Lexington, Kentucky

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 11:59:42 -0400
From:    "Eliot K. Friedman" <ekfriedm@AEC1.APGEA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Mislabeling the fake movie [was Fake Photographs]

Steve Baldwin wrote:

>> Another of these which comes to mind is the famous film sequence of
>> Hitler dancing a jig when the Nazis conquered France. In fact, a Canadian
>> film maker took a short clip of Hitler stamping his foot and ran it over
>> and over making him 'dance'. Cheers,
>> David Rising

> this is another interesting one that is put out on TV quite a lot.
> Funny...no-one ever says "the following clip is in fact a fake..."

I remember seeing a still taken from that clip in a "Weekly Reader" style
publication in my hebrew school class, back in the 1960's.  Only then, the
caption was, "Hitler dances with joy upon hearing how many Jews have been
killed".

I suppose nobody can pass up the chance to "improve" a photo op.  I'll
never forget that one.

El

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 12:11:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: USAAF ranks

Flight Officer was equivalent to a Warrant Officer.  I understood that
a pilot's initial rank, i.e., 2nd Lieutenant vs. Flight Officer depended
upon his standing in his graduating class but perhaps there were other
factors.

The insignia Dennis describes as the cap insignia, a blue bar with
rounded corners, edged with gold and with a gold stripe across the middle,
was the standard rank insignia for a Warrant Officer in all brances of the
US military during WWII and is still the insignia for US Army Warrant
Officer helicopter pilots.  In WWII there were two grades of warrant
officers; today there are four.  The USAF is the only branch of the military
that does not have warrant officers.

One final thing.  The famed bandleader Glenn Miller was lost in Dec 44
in a Noorduyn UC-64 Norseman while enroute from England to Paris.  The
pilot of that craft was a Flight Officer.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 17:30:53 BST
From:    Stephen Baldwin <smb@NETMGRS.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Mislabeling the fake movie [was Fake Photographs]

>From @UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-wwii-l@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Tue Aug  2 17:18:52 1994
>Return-Path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-wwii-l@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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> 2 Aug 1994 12:17:27 -0400
>Date:         Tue, 2 Aug 1994 11:59:42 -0400
>Reply-To: World War II Discussion List <WWII-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
>Sender: World War II Discussion List <WWII-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
>From: "Eliot K. Friedman" <ekfriedm@AEC1.APGEA.ARMY.MIL>
>Subject:      Mislabeling the fake movie [was Fake Photographs]
>X-To:         wwii-l%ubvm.bitnet@aec1.apgea.army.mil
>To: Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <WWII-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
>Status: R
>
>Steve Baldwin wrote:
>
>>> Another of these which comes to mind is the famous film sequence of
>>> Hitler dancing a jig when the Nazis conquered France. In fact, a Canadian
>>> film maker took a short clip of Hitler stamping his foot and ran it over
>>> and over making him 'dance'. Cheers,
>>> David Rising
>
>> this is another interesting one that is put out on TV quite a lot.
>> Funny...no-one ever says "the following clip is in fact a fake..."
>
>I remember seeing a still taken from that clip in a "Weekly Reader" style
>publication in my hebrew school class, back in the 1960's.  Only then, the
>caption was, "Hitler dances with joy upon hearing how many Jews have been
>killed".
>
>I suppose nobody can pass up the chance to "improve" a photo op.  I'll
>never forget that one.
>
>El
>
um, just for the sake of accuracy Eliot, t'was not me who
enlightened the list on the hitler jig - mine was from WWI...
That said, from my own naivity, I'm only just realising now how
misleading photographic/film evidence can be. This has been an
interesting thread....  There is this thing that the camera
never lies - well maybe it doesn't - but cameramen are only human too.
I s'pose that's why we have historians to sort out the fact from the
fiction.....(plus or minus their interpretations...:-;)


best regards
steve baldwin
smb@netmgrs.co.uk

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 12:38:38 -0500
From:    Mike Yaklich <MFY@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Finland/Mea Culpa (was Warsaw Rising)

Oh, oh, big faux pas warning.  I just realized that in a previous post on
this topic I mistakenly identified the "Winter War" as 11/40--3/41.
It was, of course, 11/39--3/40...my only plea is brain dead.

Also, thanks to whoever pointed out that Finland also received some
Curtiss Hawk 75's after the Winter War (I was reading and deleting so fast
to catch up and clean out my files I forgot who posted that)...they were
French air force planes taken over by the Germans and passed on to Finland,
I think the exact number involved was 36 aircraft.  At least one British
Gloster Gladiator biplane also escaped to Finland from northern Norway
after that campaign, and was confiscated and used by the Finns.  Finally,
the Finns also developed their own fighter type, the VL "Myrsky" ("Storm").
It entered action in 1944 (ironically, seeing most use against the Germans
after the armistice with Russia), and was mostly relegated to the fighter-
bomber role because its performance was inferior to other types in Finnish
service by that time (primarily the Me-109G.

Regards and apologies

Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 10:25:36 -0600
From:    Debra Sweepe <DEB@SIZZLE.YAVAPAI.CC.AZ.US>
Subject: WWII FLIGHT JACKETS

I am new to this list.  I've only been reading thus far and am
now venturing out to post.  What I have is a simple question.

My father was a ball turret gunner in WWII, eighth airforce,
401st bombardment group.  His 71st birthday is coming up and
I'd like to get him one of those flight jackets they use to
wear.  The ones with the emblem, that was displayed on their plane,
on the back.  The B17 his crew flew was Maggie.  Does  anyone
know where one of these jackets can be found/ordered????

If so, please respond to "DEB@SIZZLE.YAVAPAI.CC.AZ.US".

Thanks.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 18:22:10 +0000
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <gummihe@ISMENNT.IS>
Subject: Re: Saltpeter

>
> >I'm in the middle of a conversation regarding saltpeter and possible use
> >by the military during the past 50 years by the military.  Does anybody
> >have anything that confirms or denies it other than stories like "I have
> >a friend who is a cook and he says.....".  For those of you not in the
> >know--saltpeter is supposed to dramatically reduce the sex drive of
> >males given it.  I'm looking for something that can be cited.
>
> Well Tim...
>
> As a young 'un, I was mixing saltpeter, charcoal and sulfur in the
> basement.  The resulting explosion nearly ended my sex drive for
> good.  But I don't know if that counts in your survey...:^)
>
> Bill (Rusty)
> N93774@vms.cis.pitt.edu
>
I dont know about you but this one saved my day :) Hillarious.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 18:28:29 +0000
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <gummihe@ISMENNT.IS>
Subject: Third Reich Body doubles

Hey all chaps! :)

I am in the process of reading so-far-excellent Greg Iles' Spandau
Phoenix. In it he uses the Hess double as the centerpiece. Also he talks
about some training camp built and supervised by Reinhard Heydrich which
sole purpose was to train Reich's top figures body doubles. As he has it
they body doubles lives ceased to exist from the moment they entered the
camp *not voluntarily os course :)*.

So. Any truth to this?

And yes I *know* this book is a fiction but real life is usually more
unbelieveable than fiction :)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 18:34:03 +0000
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <gummihe@ISMENNT.IS>
Subject: German 88mm AT cannon

Hey all


I am looking for a rather odd info on the excellent 88mm AT cannon. I
know it had a 12-man crew and was about 11tons. BUT, could it be stripped
and transported via airplane or even dropped in a parachute during
airborne operations?

Does anyone have info on this and maybe how long it took to disassemble
the weapon?

Also, did it suffice as a sole defence perimeter against a tank assault?
I mean did it fire fast enough to discourage tank commanders from
attacking several of them if well placed (like in a small town)?

Any info would be great.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 20:58:32 +0200
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@EVSDS.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: Battle of Malta

On Mon, 1 Aug 1994, Sidney Allinson wrote:

> Emmanuel...
>         "Faith, Hope, and Charity" were rather something more than an
> "rban legend".

>         "On May 8, 1942, Malta had its 2,300th air-raid, and few days later
> Air Chief Marshal Sir Arthur Longmore told for the first time some remarkable
> facts about the early days of the island's battle with Axis raiders.
>         It had been thought that the operation of any fighter defence from
> Malta would be out of the question, because of the close proximity to Sicily.
> There were no aircraft on the island when Italy entered the war, and Air Vice
> Marshal Maynard and a small nucleus of RAF officers remained. Incensed by
> Italian bombers cruising overhead, these officers searched the dockyards and
> found some packing cases in which were parts of Gloster Gladiators.
>         Four of these aircraft were assembled, and after a few practic flights,
> the pilots took off on real business. They met with immediate success against
> the next lot of Italians to fly over the island outpost..."
>
>         Hammerton's THE SECOND GREAT WAR, Volume 6, mentions:
>         "...The growth of the RAF in Malta was remarkable.When Italy entered
> the war, there were said to be only three Gloucester Galdiators then available on the island.
>         The aircraft were given by the Maltese the nicknames 'Faith', 'Hope',
>         and 'Charity', and brought down several Italian planes...."

The best answer to a quote is perhaps another quote. In Aeroplane Montly,
May 1992, Owen Thetford writes:

"No account of the Gladiator would be complete without mention of
the defence of Malta during the dark days of June 1940. Much has
been written about this, usually in the mistaken belief that three
aircraft named Faith, Hope and Charity were solely responsible. In
fact, no such names were ever used and the fighters in action against
the Italian raiders were seven Sea Gladiators (with arrester gear
removed) taken over by the RAF from Royal Navy stocks at Kalafrana.
Eight more aircraft, in reserve, were drawn upon for spares by the
hard-pressed ground maintenance personnel. Details are appended below.
At least two of the Sea Gladiators were adapted to take a non-standard
Mercury engine removed from a Blenheim, complete with a variable-pitch
propeller and armour plate."

Serials of the aircraft used by the Hal Far Fighter Flight: N5519,
5520, 5523, 5524, 5528, 5529, 5531. Assigned as spares: N5518, 5521,
5522, 5525, 5527, 5528 and 5530.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 23:22:07 +0300
From:    itzhaki hadassah <hitzhaki@CCSG.TAU.AC.IL>
Subject: JEWS - DISPLACED PERSONS, 1945-1948.

     Searching for articles from "Washington Post" daily, during the
years 1945-1948, about: Jewish Refugees & D.P.s.  At least the Index for
those years.

      Looking for USA soldiers who served in Germany during the years
1945-1948 in D.P. camps and have information about the treatement  and
care Jews got in those camps.

        Thanks,
HADASSAH ITZHAKI
HITZHAKI@ccsg.tau.ac.il

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 15:36:22 -0500
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <TWATTS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU>
Subject: Dirty Little Secrets

FYI-
Because of the recent discussion of a German plan for economic warfare
against the Allies, the review in PUBLISHERS WEEKLY for the following
book caught my eye.  The reviewer specifically mentions that campaign.
The book is: Dunnigan and Nofi, DIRTY LITTLE SECRETS OF WORLD WAR II:
MILITARY INFORMATION NO ONE TOLD YOU ABOUT THE GREATEST, MOST TERRIBLE
WAR IN HISTORY.  Publisher is Morrow and cost is $25.00.  Publication
date is September 1994.
Tim J. Watts

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 16:44:04 -0400
From:    Emery Ford <eford@DELPHI.UMD.EDU>
Subject: HIST: JEWISH REPATRIATION IN POLAND

Hello folks!

I just read about Jews being repatriated to Poland after WWII, of which I can't
imagine there were many, being subjected to pogroms by the locals.  Has
anyone else heard of this?  This seems to me nothing less than incredible.
Did the Poles blame the Jews for the horrors inflicted upon their state?  Or
was it somehow inspired by the Communists?

Thanks,
        Emery

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 15:49:51 CDT
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: WWII FLIGHT JACKETS

The cheapest way to get a good one is to join the 8th AF historical
society and buy one from them--they are in the $180 range--you'll pay
more for a correct one, and all the others in that price range anre the
current USAF type, or an unresonable facsimle of them.  TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 16:14:31 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <rjg@UMNSTAT.STAT.UMN.EDU>
Subject: NOST: Another Shameless Plug

(Sorry Ron, your posting reminded me that I better get my own plug out
pretty quick since the weekend is rapidly approaching...  :-)

[BTW: A hopeful large portion of the proceeds from this show will be used
to restore the (flying) PBY Catalina to military configuration and make
the P-51C (one of four) fly (with a red tail, commemorating the Tuskegee
Airmen)].



17TH ANNUAL WWII AIR POWER DISPLAY
St. Paul Downtown Airport (Holman Field)

Friday-Sunday, August 5, 6 and 7
Gates open at 9:00 a.m.

Donation: $7.00 adults, $2.00 children 12 and under.  Toddlers free.
Parking and shuttle busses free.

For more information: 612/455-6942



The Southern Minnesota Wing of the Confederate Air Force is holding the
17th Annual WWII Air Power Display this weekend at St. Paul Downtown
Airport.  This annual fund raiser supports the organizations restoration,
preservation and educational programs.

All donations to the CAF are tax-deductible.

This year's show will feature nearly three dozen aircraft including:

        B-17 Flying Fortress    PBY Catalina            P-51 Mustang
        B-25 Mitchell           P-47 Thunderbolt        P-38 Lightning
        F4U Corsair             F6F Hellcat             YAK-11
        Spitfire                PT-17 Stearman          TBM Avenger
        Hawker Sea Fury         AT-6 Texan              BT-13 Valiant
        L-5 Sentinel            L-17 Navion             Harvark Mk IV
        T-34 Mentor             T-28                    OV-10 Bronco
        Bell Cobra              T-37 "Tweety Bird"      C-21
        Skyraider               UF-1 Albatross          Strikemaster
        C-123                   ... more ...

The show will also feature displays on the Twin Cities homefront of WWII.
Many companies in the Twin Cities supported the efforts with products and
production back home.  Some of the local companies built sub chaser boats
on the Mississippi.  Honeywell built autopilots.  Buckbee-Mears made bomb
sight cross hairs.  Hormel created a meat product that did not require
refigeration: The birth of SPAM.  Villaume industries built more than
1,500 gliders for D-Day.  Many additional companies will be displaying
historical photos and artifacts.

We will also be recording the names and addresses of all who attend the show
who worked on the homefront during WWII and help reunite them with other
people they may have worked with or lost contact with over the years.

Also on display will be vehicles of the era, precisions drill team
demonstrations by the St. Thomas Academy crack drill team, "living history"
demonstrations of complete uniforms and their functions and book signings
of newly released titles including "Love at First Flight" by Liz Strohfus --
the personal recollections of a WWII WASP pilot.


More information can be found in the Sunday, July 31st St. Paul Pioneer
Press (Tabloid insert), July 31st Minneapolis Star Tribune (page 1A) or
by calling 612/455-6942.

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
rjg@stat.umn.edu                                       Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 14:55:17 -0700
From:    Jim Curry <kidcurry@BILLINGS.LIB.MT.US>
Subject: Re: Battle of Malta

The title of this book is _To War in a Stringbag_ (Bantam Books,1984)
or _War in a Stringbag_ (British or Canadian editions).
Jim Curry







On Tue, 2 Aug 1994, Emmanuel Gustin wrote:

> On Mon, 1 Aug 1994, Ian Wingfield wrote:
>
> > When I was in my early teens I read a book called "Faith, Hope and
> > Charity". It was about the 3 biplanes, that is what they were named, that
> > defended Malta in the air in the early part of the war. These three
> > biplanes took on the Italian airforce over Malta. I found it a very
> > interesting book then and this discussion has reminded me of it.
>
> In that case, it was not a very reliable source, because (spreading this
> to the net for the third of fourth time) that story is a myth. It is true
> that the Hal Far Fighter Flight did use a number of Sea Gladiators. There
> were more than three, however, and no such names were ever used.  The
> history of the Gloster Gladiator is told in Aeroplane Monthly, April and
> May 1992 issues. The article includes a short discussion of the use of
> Gladiators on Malta.
>
> I certainly would like to know who created this indestructible urban
> legend?
>
> Concerning Malta: the story of the convoys that carried Spitfires to Malta
> was told in AIR International, September 1992 issue.
>
> I also remember reading the autobiography of a former Swordfish pilot,
> named (If my memory does not fail) Lamb. Most of the book is about his
> experiences in the Atlantic, the Mediterranean, Greece, North Africa and a
> POW camp in French North-Africa, but there is also an interesting story
> about the time when he commanded a Swordfish unit on Malta. I don't
> remember the title, but anyway, it was a translation, and the *Dutch*
> title wouldn't help you much. Does someone know the book?
>
> Emmanuel Gustin
>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 18:06:47 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <dan.ford@UNH.EDU>
Subject: Re: German 88mm AT cannon

On Tue, 2 Aug 1994, Gudmundur Helgason wrote:
> Also, did it suffice as a sole defence perimeter against a tank assault?
> I mean did it fire fast enough to discourage tank commanders from
> attacking several of them if well placed (like in a small town)?

In North Africa, Rommell placed his 88s (some of them mounted on chassis,
including captured British) as his first line of defense, so his
defensive battles were British tanks v. German 88s, with German tanks
held back in reserve.

            - Dan      <dan.ford@unh.edu>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 21:09:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 3 AUG 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 3 AUGUST 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, B-25s bomb Wanling, knock out a
bridge at Panghkam, and attack bridges along the railroad from Naba to
Myitkyina; P-51s and P-47s support ground forces N of Taungni and near
Sahmaw, hit the towns of Shwegu and Mosit, attack the factory area at
Mohnyin, and pound boats, troop concentrations, and gun positions at
Myitkyina and Maingna.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 23 B-24s bomb the town of Yoyang;
6 B-25s hit Mangshih; nearly 150 P-40s, P-51s, and P-38s on armed
reconnaissance attack targets of opportunity, including airfields, troops,
town areas, supply areas, and rail, road, and river traffic at numerous
locations, including the areas of Tengchung, Tingka, Mangshih, Loyang,
Changsha, Hengyang, Tangyang, Chingmen, Chaling, Siangyin, Nanchang,
Siangtan, Hengshan, Chuchou, Ikiawan, and Leiyang.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Two missions are flown.
  Mission 512: 672 bombers and 352 fighters are dispatched to hit rail and
other targets in the French/German border area and oil dumps and bridges SE
of Paris; 6 bombers and 6 fighters are lost:
  1. Of 345 B-17s, 106 hit the Merkwille Oil Refinery, 68 hit Strasbourg
marshalling yard, 62 hit Saarbrucken marshalling yard, 54 hit Mulhouse
marshalling yard, 16 hit Toul/Croix de Metz Airfield, 11 hit a railroad near
Saarbrucken and 6 hit targets of opportunity; they claim 4-1-1 Luftwaffe
aircraft; 6 B-17s are lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 98 damaged; 9 airmen
are KIA, 9 WIA and 54 MIA. Escort is provided by 175 of 200 P-51s; they claim
6-0-0 aircraft in the air and 5-0-1 on the ground; 6 P-51s are lost (pilots
are MIA).
  2. Of 155 B-17s, 38 hit Troyes Bridge and 36 hit Joigny/La Roche Bridge; 11
B-17s are damaged. Escort is provided by 96 of 103 P-51s.
  3. Of 172 B-24s, 27 hit Conches Airfield, 12 hit Melun marshalling yard, 11
hit Etampes Mondesir Airfield and 3 hit targets of opportunity; 51 B-24s are
damaged. Escort is provided by 47 P-47s.
  Mission 513: 482 bombers and 178 fighters are dispatched to oil
installations and dumps in the Brussels, Paris and Lille areas and CROSSBOW
(V-weapon) sites in the Pas de Calais; 2 bombers are lost:
  1. 112 of 126 B-17s and 117 of 121 B-24s hit V-weapon sites in the Pas de
Calais; 1 B-24 is lost; 6 B-17s and 20 B-24s are damaged. Escort is provided
by 43 of 46 P-51s.
  2. Of 76 B-24s, 62 hit Brussels/Vivorde, 10 hit Ghent/Terneuzen and 1 hits
a target of opportunity; 1 B-24 is damaged beyond repair and 49 damaged; 2
airmen are KIA. Escort is provided by 33 of 36 P-47s.
  3. Of 159 B-24s, 49 hit Harnes, 28 hit Courchelettes, 22 hit Pas de Calais
V-weapons sites, 10 hit Lille/Marquette, 10 hit Lille/Sequedin and 8 hit Ghent
marshalling yard; 1 B-24 is lost, 3 damaged beyond repair and 38 damaged; 4
airmen are KIA, 4 WIA and 10 MIA. Escort is provided by 90 of 96 P-51s.
  133 P-38s and P-47s fly fighter-bomber missions against rail traffic in the
Metz-Strasbourg-Saarbrucken area; they claim 1-0-0 aircraft in the air and
1-0-0 on the ground; 1 P-47 is lost.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In France, 180+ A-20s and B-26s bomb
rail bridges, overpasses, and junctions at Mantes-la-Jolie, Chartres, La
Chenaie and Merey, fuel dump at Maintenon, and alternate rail targets in N
France; fighters escort IX Bomber Command bombers and a few C-47s, provide
cover for ground forces, and fly armed reconnaissance over wide areas of N
and W France; and the 22d and 23d Fighter Squadrons, 36th Fighter Group, move
from Kingsnorth, England to Brucheville with P-47s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 600+ bombers hit targets in
Germany; B-17s and B-24s hit industry in the Friedrichshafen area, including
chemical works, fabric works, and 2 aircraft factories; B-24s also bomb
communications targets in the Brenner Pass area, attacking Avisio viaduct and
bridges at Ora and San Michele all'Adige; fighters fly about 300 sorties in
support; the bombers and fighters claim 18 enemy aircraft shot down; 11 AAF
airplanes are destroyed.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, medium bombers achieve
fair results in attacks on bridges at Gilette, Levens, Lesegno, Albenga, and
Asti, and at 2 locations along the Var River; fighter-bombers have a
successful day against communications targets (mainly road and railroad
bridges) and airfields in N Italy; at least 15 bridges are damaged or
demolished and several parked aircraft are destroyed.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): HQ VII Air Service Area Command
is activated. B-24s from the Marshall Islands pound Truk Atoll, Caroline
Islands.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s bomb Yap
Island and islands in the Woleai Atoll group; an ammunition dump and oil
derrick at Boela, Ceram Island, Moluccas Islands, are also destroyed. In New
Guinea, bad weather cancels scheduled strikes over the Vogelkop Peninsula
area; however, B-25s hit troop concentrations at Bira and other points on
MacCluer Gulf, bomb Urarom, and support Allied ground forces on Biak Island
by hitting troops in the Korim Bay area; supply dumps, communications
targets, and bridges are hit as fighter-bombers and A-20s continue to blast
areas around But, Dagua, and Wewak.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

03/0111Z AUG

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 21:41:15 -0400
From:    Emery Ford <eford@DELPHI.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: HIST: JEWISH REPATRIATION IN POLAND

Hi everyone,

I wrote the following earlier, from a couple of passages I read in
_A_WORLD_AT_ARMS_ by Gerhard Weinberg:
>
>I just read about Jews being repatriated to Poland after WWII, of which I can'
t
>imagine there were many, being subjected to pogroms by the locals.  Has
>anyone else heard of this?  This seems to me nothing less than incredible.
>Did the Poles blame the Jews for the horrors inflicted upon their state?  Or
>was it somehow inspired by the Communists?
>
Here is the passage, I included the entire paragraph to provide some
context,  and citation used by Weinberg in describing the refugee crisis in
the aftermath of the German surrender:

        The most obvious and striking aspect of the situation in Europe,
however, was the general misery.  There was destruction and hunger
everywhere.  Millions had been uprooted from their homes; many could not
or believed they could not go back.  The new term "Displaced Person" or
DP was added to the vocabulary, and the immediate post-hostilities
situation such as the expulsions from the German territories
administered by Poland and the Soviet Union and from Czechoslovakia
added to the numbers.  Soon anti-Semitic riots in Poland convinced those
Jews who had survived and attempted to return home that this would be
impossible for them, so they too streamed into the DP camps in the
western zones of occupation.  [Footnote here]  The United National
Relief and Rehabilitation Administration (UNRRA) under Herbert Lehmann
had been set up at Roosevelt's initiative to cope with these problems;
it worked hard at the enormous task, but there was enough misery to
daunt even as dedicated a humanitarian as the former governor of New
York.

_A_WORLD_AT_ARMS_, pp. 835

The reference cited for the footnote is Ziemke, _THE_US_ARMY_, pp. 416

Does anyone have this book perchance?

Emery

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 1 Aug 1994 to 2 Aug 1994
***********************************************

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Subject:  WWII-L Digest - 2 Aug 1994 to 3 Aug 1994
To: Recipients of WWII-L digests <WWII-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Status: O

There are 15 messages totalling 804 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. ARC: CNO Reports to Sec.s Knox and Forrestal
  2. ARC: Request ship bios at byrd.
  3. THE SALTPETER MYTH
  4. Air show (2)
  5. INF: USN Chronology 08-03-94
  6. INF: 50 Years Ago - 04-AUG-1944
  7. Battle of Malta
  8. Pearl Harbor (2)
  9. ADMIN: Introduction [LONG]
 10. REUNION U.S.S SAINT CROIX APA 231 50 Year
 11. INF: Periodicals
 12. emory's posting about Poland
 13. Anti-Semitism in Eastern Europe

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 23:05:11 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: ARC: CNO Reports to Sec.s Knox and Forrestal

All three wartime (or end-of-war) reports from Adm. E. J. King to the
Secretaries of the Navy have been uploaded to

byrd.mu.wvnet.edu
/pub/history/military/wwii/CNO.reports

The reports cover the course of the war from beginning to end (from the
U.S. Navy viewpoint) and there are appendices that cover: Final Disposition
of IJN warships; Ships of all classes added to the U.S. Navy 7 December 1941-
1 October 1945; and Losses of U.S Naval vessels from all causes (for
the same period.)

The addition of ships' histories to /pub/history/military/USN continues
as time and manpower permit. We will continue to concentrate on major
combatants until they have all been entered, and then work on smaller
ships.  Currently nothing smaller than a DE is being added unless the
scanner "grabs" it along with other material.  Sailing ships are being
added according to historical value, and U.S Civil War ships are being
added when they made a significant contribution.

Other directories at byrd are also receiving material almost daily, so
check in on your favorite area often.

Larry J

JEWELL@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU; Co-Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 00:22:51 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: ARC: Request ship bios at byrd.

As per request, the following ships' histories are now at byrd:



LAFFEY (DD-459)
LAFFEY (DD-724)
SARSFIELD (DD-837)
ARCHERFISH (SS-311)
ARCHERFISH (SSN-678)

The tincans' are in:

/pub/history/military/USN/escorts

and the sewerpipes are in:

/pub/history/military/USN/subs

More files will be added as we get them.  If anyone else has a ship they
want information on, send me a note.

BTW, modern Navy ships will be stored by their hull numbers while older
ones will be by name.

If anyone has files they'd like to contribute to byrd, send me mail and
we'll work something out.  I've just opened a directory for CSA documents,
and we'll have new editions of Emmanuel Gustin's excellent aircraft listings
in place as soon as I put the summer semester to sleep (I *mean* bed!)

Larry J

JEWELL@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU; Co-Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 13:54:34 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <John.Ausland@GMAIL.GAR.NO>
Subject: THE SALTPETER MYTH

Tim Scherrer posted the following:

Subject: Re: Saltpeter

I'm in the middle of a conversation regarding saltpeter and possible use
by the military during the past 50 years by the military.  Does anybody
have anything that confirms or denies it other than stories like "I have
a friend who is a cook and he says.....".  For those of you not in the
know--saltpeter is supposed to dramatically reduce the sex drive of
males given it.  I'm looking for something that can be cited.

COMMENT:  I am not aware of any printed source on this, but you can quote me as
saying this was a myth.  During four years in the Army in WWII, including a
stint as mess officer, I never saw any evidence that this was being done.  Nor
have I ever seen any evidence that saltpeter has this effect.

My wife, who is a pharmacist, tells me that it has no effect on the sexual urge
but that, if you take enough of it, it will give you cancer.

I can also contribute a joke about this.  Two old vets are talking.  One
says to the other,  "Do you remember that stuff they gave us with our food to
reduce our sexual urge."  "Ya, I remember it."  "Well, have you noticed it is
beginning to work?"

  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 21:15:20 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <jimadams@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Air show

Robert, I saw your plug about an airshow and it included that there will
be a PBY Catalina.  what model?  My interest is peaked (although I won't
be able to attend) as I just finished two weeks of surveying and mapping
of a PBY5 that is underwater in Kaneohe Bay, in Hawaii.  I believe this
is one of the planes sunk during the Dec 7, 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor.

I've got some books, etc. and reference material, now I have to get
detailed information from tech manuals, etc.  If anybody has sources for
detailed technical references, I would appriciate.

****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       jimadams@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS        (808) 423-7300
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 01:50:53 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 08-03-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
08/03 Thu. Office of the General Counsel Navy Department is established;
           formerly designated Procurement Legal Division, Navy
           Department.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 06:00:22 -0700
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 04-AUG-1944

On 04-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the US 3rd Army sector, the 6th Armoured Division is
     advancing on Brest; while the 4th moves northwest towards Vannes. The
     13th Regiment of the 8th Division captures Rennes. In the 1st Army
     sector, the VII Corps reinforces its position at Mortain; while some of
     its troops move south towards Mayenne. The XIX is facing a new German
     counter-attack. In the British sector, the Canadian 1st Army is ordered
     to advance towards Falaise as fast as possible. The XXX Corps (British
     2nd Army) captures Hermilly and Villers-Bocage.

Eastern Front - The 1st Baltic Front is pushed back by the German Army Group
     North reopening the Estonia-Latvia corrider between Riga and the Russian
     salient north of Jelgava.

Italian Front - New Zealand and Indian troops of the British XIII Corps reach
     the south bank of the Arno near Florence. Units of the South African 6th
     Armoured Division reach the south suburbs of Florence.

Marianas - The 77th Infantry Division capture Mount Barrigada and link up with
     the 3rd Marine Division, advancing on their left. Naval ships continue to
     shell Mount Santa Rosa.

Bonin Islands/Volcano Islands - Aircraft from a carrier task group (TF 38)
     commanded by RADM J.J. Clark attack a Japanese convoy near the Bonin
     Islands. At the same time, aircraft from a second carrier task group
     commanded by RADM A.E. Montgomery bomb airfield facilities on Iwo Jima,
     Volcano Islands.

New Guinea - The Japanese withdraw southwards from the Afua area after one
     last desparate attack.

Burma/China - On the river Salween front, the Chinese penetrate into the town
     of Teng-chung, where bitter house-to-house fighting takes place. The
     British XXXIII Corps occupies Tamu across the Burmese frontier.

Naval Dispatches
----------------
Japanese destroyer MATSU sunk by carrier based aircraft, Volcano Islands.

The Homefront
-------------
Refugees Arrive - A group of 983 refugees from German occupied Europe have
     arrived in New York enroute to the U.S. Government refugee camp at Fort
     Ontario, Oswego, N.Y.

Ship Production Slumps - The Maritime Commission says July production of cargo
     vessels fell to 126 against a scheduled output of 150 ships.

28 Killed In Crash - Twenty-eight persons, including 24 Army pilots and four
     crew members of a C-47 transport plane have been killed when the plane
     crashed near Atkinson, Nebraska.

Jackie Cooper Accused - South Bend, Ind. Prosecutor Arthur Scheer has issued a
     warrant for the arrest of film actor Jackie Cooper, charging him with
     contributing to the delinquency of a 15-year old girl during an all-night
     hotel party in South Bend, where Cooper is a Navy V-12 student at Notre
     Dame University. Cooper and a fellow student are in Navy custody pending
     an investigation.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  (jbd@netcom.com/jbd@osbm.state.nc.us)
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 09:26:42 -0500
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <rjg@UMNSTAT.STAT.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Air show

In message <Pine.3.89.9408022137.A8139-0100000@uhunix3.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> Jim
Adams writes:
> Robert, I saw your plug about an airshow and it included that there will
> be a PBY Catalina.  what model?  My interest is peaked (although I won't

We've got a PBY-6A, similar to National Warplane's.

> be able to attend) as I just finished two weeks of surveying and mapping
> of a PBY5 that is underwater in Kaneohe Bay, in Hawaii.  I believe this
> is one of the planes sunk during the Dec 7, 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor.

Does it have any spare parts that will fit the interior of a -6A?  :-)

>
> I've got some books, etc. and reference material, now I have to get
> detailed information from tech manuals, etc.  If anybody has sources for
> detailed technical references, I would appriciate.

Your best source is probably the Smithsonian.  All the technical drawings
and construction materials have been converted to microfilm and are
available (for a fee).  I beleive there are other sources as well of
technical materials that people can point you to...


--
Robert J. Granvin
Southern Minnesota Wing Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 10:46:47 -0500
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <TWATTS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU>
Subject: Battle of Malta

As promised in my original message, I am posting a compilation of all the
titles people offered on the Battle of Malta.  Many thanks to those of you
who contributed.  I hope you don't think this is too lengthy, but I did
add a few titles I felt to be worthy.  For my money, the seige of Malta is
the best example of World War II air, sea, and underwater combat available.
It has enough human foibles, bravery, brilliance and blunders to satisfy
the most demanding appetite.

Cameron, Red Duster, White Ensign (Story of the Malta Convoys)
Bragadin, The Italian Navy in the Second World War
Roskill, The War at Sea (Official RN History)
Coggins, The North African Campaign
Buerling, Malta Spitfire
Fraser, Knight's Cross: A Life of Field Marshal Erwin Rommel
Smith & Walker, Battles of the Malta Striking Forces
Shores, Malta: The Hurrican Years
Johnston, Tattered Battlements: A Fighter Pilot's Malta Diary
Lyall, The War in the Air: The Rar in World War II
Bradford, Siege: Malta, 1940-1943
Mason, The Rise and Fall of the Luftwaffe
Bekker, The Luftwaffe War Diaries
Piekalkiwicz, Luftkrieg (in German)
Bennett, Ultra and Mediterranean Strategy
Lamb, To War in a Stringbag
Nolan, Hero: The Buzz Buerling Story
Churchill, The Hinge of Fate
Killen, A History of the Luftwaffe
Baumbach, The Life and Death of the Luftwaffe
Schmidt, With Rommel in the Desert
Collier, Duce
Moorehead, The March to Tunis
Asbury, 1942: The Year That Doomed the Axis
Lewin, Rommell
Bryant, The Turn of the Tide, 1939-1943
Nauroth, Stukageschwader Immelmann (in German)
Jablonski, Air War
Time-Life, The War in the Desert
Deakin, The Brutal Friendship
Irving, The Rise and Fall of the Luftwaffe: The Life of Field-Marshal
     Edward Milch
Home, Rommel
Irving, The Trail of the Fox
Liddell-Hart, The Rommel Papers
Irving, Hitler's War
Lukacs, The Last European War
Playfair, War in the Mediterranean (Official British History)
Shankland, Malta Convoy
Jellison, Besieged: The World War II Ordeal of Malta, 1940-1942
Smith, Pedestal: The Malta Convoy of August 1942
Lucas, Malta: The Thorn in Rommel's Side: Six Months That Turned the
    War
Wingate, The Fighting Tenth: The Tenth Submarine Flotilla and the
    Siege of Malta
Douglas-Hamilton, The Air Battle for Malta: The Diaries of a Fighter Pilot
Simpson, Periscope View: A Professional Autobiography
Perowne, The Siege Within the Walls, Malta 1940-1943
Attard, The Battle of Malta
Ciano, The Ciano Diaries 1939-1945 (Mussolini's son-in-law & foreign
    minister)
Hogan, Malta: The Triumphant Years 1940-1943
Knox, Mussolini Unleashed, 1939-1941: Politics and Strategy in Fascist
    Italy's Last War (Definitely the best title of the group, if only
    for the irony)
Poolman, Night Strike From Malta: 830 Squadron R.N. & Rommel's
    Convoys (Another book from a Swordfish pilot)

Sorry for the length, but it's hard to stop when you find a topic you
like.  Again, thanks to everyone who contributed.  Hopefully, you will
find something new on the list
Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University
School of Law Library
twatts@exodus.valpo.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 11:45:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Pearl Harbor

A question that has been raised in the past several years is, "Did the
Brits know that the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor and Winston
Churchill withheld the information so that the U.S. would have no option
other than entering the war?"  According to an article on Page A11 of the
metro edition of the NEW YORK TIMES today (August 3, 1994), the answer is no.

Anthony Best, a lecturer in international history at the London School of
Economics says he found a newly declassified internal history of British
naval intelligence prepared in 1945.  The document states that although
there were warning signals about Japan's intentions, the Brits did not know
in early Dec 41 that a Japanese Task Force was enroute to Hawaii.  Best
says he found the document at the Public Records Office where it was
released last week without any announcement.  According to the document, the
Royal Navy "had not penetrated the Japanese plan to attack Pearl Harbor,
but the United States knew, as did our own command, that it was impossible
to keep track of every Japanese unit.  There was enough to keep the U.S.
authorities on the alert, especially in view of Japan's past record in the
matter of surprise raids before declaring war."

According to the document, as of 1 Dec 41, the Royal Navy's assessment was
that of Japan's 10 aircraft carriers, 4 were in the South China Sea near
Formosa, and 4 others were in Japanese home waters; the other 2 carriers
were near Saipan in the Marianas Islands, more than 3,000 miles (4,287 km)
west of Hawaii.  In reality, 2 of the carriers that the Royal Navy thought
were in the South China Sea and all 4 of those supposedly in home waters
were part of the Task Force sailing to Pearl Harbor and operating under
radio silence.

Best states that "this (the document) was an internal history designed for
internal consumption only.  There's no reason for it to say something
designed to mislead.  I think this does prove since there's no reason for
it to have an angle, that Britain did not know."

However, John Costello, a historian based in New York wrote a letter to THE
DAILY TELEGRAPH stating that it was "too soon to assert categorically" that
Churchill did not have advance knowledge of the attack.

I think this debate will be going on in 2041, long after I am gone!

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 12:31:18 -0400
From:    Barone <m1b@SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor

Jack McKillop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM> writes:
> I think this debate will be going on in 2041, long after I am gone!

        Pish-posh!  Most of us will probably be jacked in directly into
the Internet with some neural interface grafted into the base of our
skulls and *we* will still be debating this!  This will be ideal since
most of us probably would not be able to type very well with our arthritic
hands!  To paraphrase Tim Scherrer's father, "We'll be fighting WWII for
the rest of our lives."  :-)
--
Joe Barone
m1b@ssd.ray.com
Booker, get me my uniform!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 12:41:19 -0400
From:    Barone <m1b@SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: ADMIN: Introduction [LONG]

Revision: 3 August 1994
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[The only changes deal with accessing the WWII-L database.  These changes are
located toward the end of this intro.  - Joe]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Welcome to WWII-L, a list dedicated to the discussion of the greatest
cataclysm of the Twentieth century (and, hopefully, the last.)  I am Joe
Barone and I'll be listowner until further notice.  I can be reached at
m1b@ssd.ray.com.

        WWII-L will be self-moderated.  This means that each of you will
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        Our subject is HUGE and not everyone will be interested in everything
that moves over the list.  To ease YOUR burden of sorting the items you wish
to read, I offer the following "flags".  They will go FIRST on the Subject:
line.  (This section will be enforced when traffic gets heavy, otherwise
members may use their discretion on the matter.)

EDU   For discussion of aspects of teaching about the war.
SCI   For discussion of science and technology; may overlap with WEAP.
WEAP  For talk of weapons, usage of weapons, and "My favorite weapon."
POL   Political discussions, such as the effects of the Yalta Conference.
TAC   Tactical and Strategic discussions, "Island hopping vs. Single axis"
REF   References, review, where-to-buy, etc.
INF   Tables of Organization, raw data, chronologies, etc.
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GEN   "Let's find a category for this."
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      period under discussion.  Present day news items should be post under
      "MEDIA".
ARC   For discussion of on-line resources and materials, such as those avail-
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      should be posted under this flag.)
TROUBLE  Error messages from a site or address. Last chance to contact me
      before I'm forced to delete you! Anyone who knows the member in question
      is urged to contact them and have the problem corrected.

        Some items will overlap, of course, but the main thrust of the item
should be clear.  Try not to ask so many questions in a single post that the
flags become inoperative.  Several short posts are preferable to one long one,
and are easier to answer and quote.  You should change the flag in the subject
line if the thread takes a new direction.  If you reply to a posting which
didn't have a flag, please insert the proper flag.  (This can help categorize
the subject for people who have to download the mail via slow modem, one of
the main reasons for having the flags at all.)

        Threads have been known to mutate so that the Subject: line no longer
gives any indication of the content of the message.  I ask that you check
the Subject: line when replying to a message and change it to something
more appropriate if this is the case.

        Since messages may arrive at sites out of order, it's always a good
idea to quote portions of a previous message that you are responding to.
This does not mean that the entire message with headers should be included,
but those lines that are relevant.  It helps if proper attribution (who
said the quoted material) is given.  Also, try to avoid quoting large
tracts of text and simply adding a "Me too!" line without adding
additional information.  A good rule of thumb is not to have more quoted
text than new material.  Of course, content is always more important than
style so these suggestions may not apply.

        Abbreviations are another subject that needs attention.  While many
of us will be comfortable with the most arcane and obscure acronyms and
abbreviations, many of the readers of this list are here to learn more about
the war and will have trouble decyphering your articles if they are packed
with "LAH", "CinCUS", "StuG III", etc.  PLEASE expand these terms at least
once in your post.

        Similarly, since this list is primarily in English, could we please
translate the "foreign" terms?  A long discussion on "Kido Butai" or
"Wacht-am-Rhine" without an explantion of the terms isn't polite if we
exclude part of the list because they have no clue as to the meaning of
the terms.  The converse should also be remembered: English is not the
primary language of many members of the list.  Usenet short-hand should
also be expanded once to avoid redundant traffic explaining what such
abbreviations as BTW mean ("by the way").


        Now we come to the REALLY hard part.

        Some subjects have been beaten to death or evoke strong emotional
responses.  However, I realize that they'll come up from time to time.
If you feel that the following topics must be addressed, ensure that your
wording is precise; consider the responses that it might evoke; and use
the topics flag.  It is not my duty to censor any pertinent topic from this
list, but these topics should be handled carefully.  Failure to do so may
result in "flame wars" which will *not* be tolerated on this list.  The
mailing list suffered through one flame war pertaining to the second topic
below.  It nearly killed the list so I am loath to see if the list can
tolerate another.  Also, in regards to the Holocaust, there is another
mailing-list, HOLOCAUS-L, devoted to the topic so readers should subscribe
to that list for a more thorough discussion of that topic.  The current
list of topics are:

        1. The Holocaust.
        2. Internment of Japanese-Americans in the US.

        Also, while conspiracy theories were all the rage during in the 1970s
and 1980s, they're rather passe now.  Their novelty is gone and there is little
or no evidence to support them.  Occam's razor applies here: don't attribute
to malice the results of ignorance.  Accordingly, the following topics are
discouraged:

        1. Did Roosevelt know about the coming attack on Pearl Harbor and
           intentionally do nothing in order to drag the US into the war?
        2. Did Churchill allow the bombing of Conventry to occur in order
           to protect the secret of Ultra?

        While on the topic of touchy topics and flame wars, there are a
few individuals in the world who delight in posting the most assinine
assertions for the sole purpose of enraging the more serious members of a
group.  These people seem to derive pleasure seeing how much traffic they
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things that they are claiming.  Regardless of such an individual's
motivation, though, if a message angers you, I ask that you not respond
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to prevent such flame wars, but propogation delays make it impossible for
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sequence below to "listserv@ubvm.bitnet" or "listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu"
it will send you an index of all articles in the archive that deal with
weapons (the WEAP: tag).

|       One member of the list used the old example that accompanied this
| introduction and notified me that it didn't work.  Below is the correct
| sequence of commands to search the database.  I've tried it so I can
| vouch for its utility.
|

//      JOB Echo=No
Database Search DD=Rules
//Rules DD *
search WEAP: in WWII-L
index
/*

|
|       If you change the word "index" to "print" it will return you a copy
| of the articles themselves.  You can start with the listserv command,
| "info database" and receive a complete set of instructions for using the
| database. These instructions are not trivial and are a bit voluminous
| but they are thorough and will help you get what you want.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If I haven't suffciently confused you, send me e-mail and I'll finish
the job. :-)  I can be reached at the following address:

Joe Barone, WWII-L Listowner
m1b@ssd.ray.com
W: (401) 842-4054
Always wit' da negative waves, Moriarty!  Always wit' da negative waves!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 11:50:41 -0500
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: REUNION U.S.S SAINT CROIX APA 231 50 Year

Forwarded from soc.veterans. Repsond to "jquinly".

In article <31ofo4$mnc@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu> writes:
>       U. S. S. SAINT CROIX
>       APA 231
>       50TH ANNIVERSARY REUNION
>       ORLANDO, FLORIDA
>       NOV 11-12, 1994
>       For information contact:
>       William J. Quinly at
>       jquinly@freenet.scri.fsu.edu
>
>
>Please post or forward this post to any outher groups that may apply.
>
>Thank You
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
JEWELL@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU; Co-Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 13:42:35 -0400
From:    Laurie Peloquin <lpeloqui@MC6ADM.UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: INF: Periodicals

On the subject of periodicals, I would like to add Canadian Military
History.  It is a well-illustrated journal published twice a year.  All
aspects of Canadian military history are covered, but the focus is on the
Second World War.  Subscriptions are $15/year or $28/2 years with prices
slightly higher in the US.

Anyone interested in Canadian Military History, or needing more
information, can e-mail directly to the editor, Mike Bechthold, at
mbechtho@mach1.wlu.ca.

Contributors range from professional historians to WWII veterans.  I
understand that the Fall issue will be especially informative, with
articles written by at least two members of this list. ;-) Yes, you could
call that a shameless plug - but don't let that detract from the quality
of this magazine.

Happy reading!

Laurie Peloquin
University of Waterloo

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 10:37:00 PDT
From:    Julie Jenkins <ECZ5JXJ@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
Subject: emory's posting about Poland

I just saw Em's posting about post WWII Poland.  Yes, E., there were vicious
pogroms in '46 and again, I think, in '48.  Because there is no way around the
fact that Poles are generally speaking as about as vicious anti-semites as it's
possible to be.  Before anyone has a heartattack, breathe deeply several times
and just accept this.  Yes, many Poles are not a-s, but more are.  Hitler put
the death camps in Poland because he controlled Poland more than any other
country and Poles were treated among the worst treated people of the war and
had very little room to maneuver, but that being said, most scolars agree that
Hitler's 96%+ success rate in Poland was because he had a lot of local help.
Yes, individual Poles made heroic sacrifices and there are Polish people com-
memorated in Israel's grove of heros, but the population at large was just as
pleased to see the Jews disappear.  Lanzman's Shoah makes this really clear.
But so does any book written this century by Polish Jews.  Read either Singer,
read Bruno Schulz, read Gombro - - - author of the classic, This Way to the Gas
Ladies & Gentlemen.  Read Levi's book The Return.  Read Dawodowicz (sp?), Bel-
low etc., etc,.  Read Polish books like Ashes and Diamonds and Promised Land.
There was another Pogrom in '68, any Jewish person still around who had to make
a living found it very difficult and the final cleansing was done then--read
The Beautiful Mrs. Seidemann (sp? tremendous book--I recommend to anyone, if
you want the real spelling I'll give it to you, the author is Polish & has a
really hard name.  Today, there are only very old Jews left in Poland, but
Zid is still an epithet there and during elections, opponents suggest that thei
r adversaries are Jews--there aren't any Jews left you say, but they still
call Zid at soccer/football matches to the opposing side.  Adam Michnic, the
great journalist, Solidarity thinker, 18th cent. liberal all around good guy,
thinks his mother might have been Jewish--he's an orphan & his past is gone,
but that has always been a weapon used to beat him.  This could go on, but
the point to remember is that Eastern Europes is anti-semitic.  All of this
could be said about Russia, as you know, and Hungary.  Julie

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 15:52:21 -0400
From:    Emery Ford <eford@DELPHI.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism in Eastern Europe

Hi Julie,

Thanks for your elaboration on my posting.  I am astounded and
dismayed.

But regarding the following statement:

>  This could go on, but the point to remember is that Eastern Europes is
>anti-semitic.  All of this could be said about Russia, as you know, and
>Hungary.  Julie

Another point emphasized in the book _A_WORLD_AT_ARMS_  is that
the Hungarian government managed to shelter their Jewish
population from the Nazis until almost the very end.  It is also
mentioned that Hitler expected that Hungary would be the last
government to give up its Jewish population.  Wouldn't this
imply that Hungary is less anti-semitic than most of the other
european nations in Nazi-occupied europe?

Emery

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 2 Aug 1994 to 3 Aug 1994
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 26 messages totalling 1231 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Saltpeter
  2. Top Ten...
  3. Air show
  4. Battle of Malta (2)
  5. Addr: Saltpeter
  6. INF: USN Chronology 08-04-94
  7. [INF] USAAF 4 AUG 44
  8. GEN: Questions re. aviation (2)
  9. INF: 50 Years Ago - 05-AUG-1944
 10. Truman/Atom Bomb
 11. GEN: Questions re. aviation -Reply
 12. GEN: Churchill, Conventry, Ultra (Backround info wanted)
 13. Wild Colonial Boys in the RAF
 14. Privateer
 15. Hiroshima (3)
 16. US preparedness 1939
 17. Postwar pogroms in Poland
 18. Test (2)
 19. NYT article
 20. [INF] USAAF 5 AUG 44
 21. GEN:  CHEM WARFARE IN WW2

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 21:22:20 EDT
From:    John Sloan <JohnS426@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Saltpeter

Tim is asking about the non-explosive use of saltpeter.
Boy, that is one of the really old stories - even older than how Catherine II
died. When I went to military high school in the 1940's that was the
persistant rumor spread around the campus. But at the time I always thought
is was just a joke.

john sloan
johns426@aol.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 20:51:10 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Top Ten...

Oh yeah,... here's one: The Rosenberg's add a new one,...

"Sing-Sing" - A prison the Stooges refer to. Also documented in the
              movie/documentary _Atomic Cafe_. It seems Ethel Rosenberg,
              who was electricuted there shortly after her husband,
              required an additional couple of thousand amperes after
              the physicians detected a heart beat remaining after the
              first several hundred amperes were applied. So they had
              to strap her in again, limp as she must've been. The
              witness, obviously flustered for the camera, spoke of a
              "ghastly plume of smoke" rising over her head after the
              2nd jolt was applied. No ghlory here, huh?...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Wild, LAN Mgr.  Father of 1.8815          Voice:          (401) 792-2611
ACC - Lippitt - URI  American Legion Post 102. FAX:            (401) 792-5479
Kingston, RI  02881  NRA Life Member           BITNET:           AWild@URIACC
                                               Internet: AWild@URIACC.URI.EDU

"Duties and responsibilities were woven into the fabric of pre-D-Day living.
It was a self-disciplined, free society that those troops cherished, and they
fought a war for it.

The Woodstock celebrants won a cultural war eliminating both the standards
of, and the respect for, self-discipline.

The spoils of that victory are numerous and devastating.
                                                          -John A. Howard
                                                           Rockford Institute
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 16:19:55 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <jimadams@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Air show

****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       jimadams@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS        (808) 423-7300
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

Robert wrote
>
> Does it have any spare parts that will fit the interior of a -6A?  :-)
>
Sorry, plane is in bad shape after having been in salt H2O for 53 years.
Plenty of burn damage also.

> Your best source is probably the Smithsonian.  All the technical drawings
> and construction materials have been converted to microfilm and are
> available (for a fee).  I beleive there are other sources as well of
> technical materials that people can point you to...
>
Thanks for the info.
>
> --
> Robert J. Granvin
> Southern Minnesota Wing Confederate Air Force
>
>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 15:07:15 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Battle of Malta

Dan...
        Your narrow exaample of a single unit in Burma by no means  is
typical of the Royal Air Force's policy regarding commissioning of
pilots.
        The nationality of aircrew had absolutely *nothing* to do with
whether or not anyone received a commission. In fact, so far as Canadians
are concerned, there was a far higher proportion of commissioned aircrew
than was the case among British aircrew. (Speaking as an ex-gunner myself)
it was quite common for Canadian air-gunners to be made up from the basic
AG rank of Sergeant to commissioning as Pilot Offiver after making a dozen
or so bombing (or fighter) combat operations. Again, though, this was by
no means the only criterion. Different strokes for different folks.
        However, by personal experience, and first-hand observation, I can
take issue with any revisionist impression that "colonials" were treated
any differently than British aircrew when it came to commissions. Quite the
contrary, often, considering how much more lavish Canadian/Australian/NZ
governments were in handing us commissions in contrast with the much stricter
RAF standards.
        American comrades, by the way, often remarked to me how much more
snobbish the American Air Force seemed to them, when it came to handing out
commissions to "ivy league" types joining USAAF.
        Regards -- Sidney Allinson.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 21:33:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: Battle of Malta

 >      In the USAAF, there was a peculiar rank for a while to straddle this
 >question -- "Flight Officer".  The rank was something above a  sergeant but
 >below a commissioned officer. Flight Officer rank was phaed out by the AMERICAN
 >AIR FORCE around 1942, most of whome holding that rank becoming lieutenents.
 >Regards -- Sidney Allinson.

Sidney,
I think you are mixing two different ranks here.  At the beginning
of the war, the USAAF had pilots with the rank of Sergeant but they
were all commissioned lieutenants in 1942 and no other sergeant
pilots were made during the war.  According to AAF, THE OFFICIAL
GUIDE TO THE ARMY AIR FORCES, Simon and Schuster, 1944, "On 8 Jul 42,
the grade of flight officer was established.  Upon graduation (from
pilot training), aviation (flying training) cadets who have not
qualified as 2nd lieutenants may be appointed flight officers with
a status equivalent to that of warrant officer, junior grade.
Promotion from flight officer to 2nd lieutenant is permitted."
Bombadiers, navigators, glider pilots and radar observers could
also be appointed flight officers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 21:39:46 EDT
From:    RICHARD KING <RKING@VUNET.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Addr: Saltpeter

My sincere apologies to Larry Jewell, but as an Indiana
University graduate I can pass on the rumour everyone swore
to, that Purdue University (our archenemy, uh, ur rival)
in the 1950s got in a lot of trouble because it became known
that the cooks were allegedly putting saltpeter in the food to
control those wild and crazy Boilermaker urges.

Unfortunately, I don't have any information about World War II
and this subject, however, but I'll keep my ears open.

Richard King (RKING@VUNET.VINU.EDU), who is probably really
asking for it this time...

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 01:41:19 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 08-04-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
08/04 Fri. Aircraft from carrier task group (Rear Adm. J. J. Clark) and
           cruisers and destroyers (Rear Adm. L. T. DuBose) attack
           Japanese convoy and other shipping in the Chichi Jima are
           Bonin Islands. At the same time aircraft from the second
           carrier task group (Rear Adm. A. E. Montgomery) bomb airfield
           facilities on Iwo Jima, Volcano Islands.
            Japanese naval vessels sunk, Volcano and Bonin Island
             attacks:
             Destroyer MATSU, by carrier-based aircraft,
              27 d. 40'N., 141 d. 48'E.
             Transport NO. 4, by carrier-based aircraft,
              27 d. 07'N., 142 d. 12'E:
             Transport NO. 133, by carrier-based aircraft,
              24 d. 47'N., 141 d.  20'E.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 07:01:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 4 AUG 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FRIDAY, 4 AUGUST 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): 4 P-38s accompanied by 1 B-25 fly top cover
for a naval force near Massacre Bay, Attu Island, Aleutian Islands; 4 B-25s
fly an uneventful shipping sweep.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, B-25s bomb the town of Sahmaw in
support of advancing Allied ground forces; P-51s also support ground forces
in the Sahmaw-Taungni area; fighter-bombers hit various targets, including
town areas, gun positions, troops, and communications lines in or near Shwegu
Pinbaw, Kazu, Bhamo, Myitkyina, Bilumyo, Mawhe, Mainghka, and Onsansaing.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 20 B-25s bomb the town of Mangshih
and airfields at Lashio and Hsenwi; 32 P-40s hit the town area and targets of
opportunity at Tengehung; 70 P-40s attack troops, supplies, river shipping,
and trucks at several points in the Tungting Lake-Yangtze River region; and
4 P-38s knock out 2 bridges at Mongyu.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 3 missions are flown:
  Mission 514: 1,307 bombers and 746 fighters are dispatched to strategic
targets in Germany; 15 bombers are lost:
  1. Of 358 B-17s, 181 hit Hamburg oil refineries, 50 hit Bremen oil
refineries, 23 hit Nordhof Airfield, 22 hit Ostend, Belgium coastal defenses,
14 hit Einswarden and 7 hit targets of opportunity; they claim 0-4-2
Luftwaffe aircraft; 8 B-17s are lost, 8 damaged beyond repair and 196
damaged; 2 airmen are KIA, 8 WIA and 63 MIA. Escort is provided by 234 P-47s
and P-51s; they claim 38-1-5 Luftwaffe aircraft in the air and 9-0-1 on the
ground; 2 P-47s and 3 P-51s are lost (pilots are MIA) and 2 P-47s and 2 P-51s
are damaged.
  2. Of 425 B-27s, 221 hit Peenemunde, 110 hit Anklam Airfield and 70 hit
Anklam aircraft factories; they claim 1-0-0 Luftwaffe aircraft; 3 B-17s are
lost, 1 is damaged beyond repair and 94 damaged; 2 airmen are KIA, 2 WIA and
40 MIA. Escort is provided by 223 of 250 P-51s; they claim 4-0-4 Luftwaffe
aircraft on the ground; 9 P-51s are lost (pilots are MIA) and 1 is damaged
beyond repair; 1 pilot is KIA.
  3. Of 446 B-24s, 148 hit Rostock aviation factories, 89 hit Kiel, 88 hit
Schwerin aviation factories, 71 hit Wismar aviation factories, 12 hit
Schlutup, 11 hit Warien and 1 hits a target of opportunity; 4 B-24s are lost
and 114 damaged; 2 airmen are KIA, 2 WIA and 40 MIA. Escort is provided by
209 P-38s and P-51s; 1 P-51 is lost and 1 P-38 is damaged; 1 pilot is KIA.
  4. Of 78 B-24s, 39 hit Husum Airfield and 29 hit Hemmingstedt/Heide oil
refinery without loss.
  Mission 515: The first APHRODITE mission is flown using 4 radio-controlled
war weary B-17s as flying bombs; targets are Mimoyecques, Siracourt, Watten,
and Wizernes V-weapon sites but none are hit; 1 drone B-17 crashes killing 1
crew. Escort is provided by 16 P-47s and 16 P-51s.
  Mission 516: In France, 154 B-17s and 36 fighters are dispatched to hit
V-weapon sites in the Pas de Calais and coastal defenses at Middelkerke and
Gravelines:
  1. Of 95 B-24s, 24 hit the Pas de Calais, 12 hit Achiet Airfield, 11 hit
Gravelines, 11 hit Middelkerke, 6 hit Lens marshalling yard and 6 hit
Villy/Montigne marshalling yard; 17 B-24s are damaged.
  2. Of 59 B-17s, 13 hit targets of opportunity, 12 hit Lille/Vendeville
Airfield and 11 hit a bridge at Gravelines; 12 B-17s are damaged.
  Escort for the two groups above is provided by 35 P-47s and P-51s.
  67 of 69 P-47s fly a fighter-bomber mission against Plantlunne Airfield;
they claim 30-0-5 aircraft on the ground; 1 P-47 is lost (pilot is MIA), 1 is
damaged beyond repair and 8 damaged.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In France, 62 A-20s and B-26s bomb
rail bridges at Oissel, Epernon, and Saint-Remy-sur-Avre and an ammunition
dump and bivouac area in Foret de Sille; fighters furnish cover over the
battle area and for an armored column, fly sweeps, dive-bomb enemy positions
and also fuel dumps at Angers, attack an ammunition dump at Tours, and fly
armed reconnaissance in the Quimper-Nantes, Amines, and Saint-Quentin areas;
HQ 70th Fighter Wing moves from Criqueville to Villedieu les Poeles; the
14th Liaison Squadron, XIX Tactical Air Command (attached to Third Army),
moves from Le Repas to Beauchamps with L-5s. The 596th and 598th Bombardment
Squadrons (Medium), 397th Bombardment Group (Medium), move from Rivenhall to
Hurn, England with B-26s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In an attempt to comply with
the first direct Soviet request for AAF air strikes, 70+ P-38s and P-51s
leave Italy, attack the airfield and town of Focsani, Rumania and land at
Operation FRANTIC bases in the USSR.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, weather severely hampers
the day's operations. medium bombers attacking bridges at Levens,
Ventimiglia, Fontan, and along the Var River achieve poor results; fighter-
bombers in same the general area hit bridges, tracks, guns, junction, and
airfield, and strike at Nice, France harbor.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): In the Marianas Islands, Saipan
Island Island-based B-25s fly 2 strikes against Guam Island. B-25s staging
from the Marshall Island, hit Ponape Island. HQ 30th Bombardment Group
(Heavy) and 27th, 38th and 392d Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy) move from
Kwajalein Atoll, Marshall Islands to Saipan Island with B-24s; and the 9th
Troop Carrier Squadron, Seventh Air Force, moves from Abemama Island, Gilbert
Islands to Saipan Island with C-47s.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s bomb the
supply area on Utagal Island, the airfield at Yap Island and oil
installations at Boela, Ceram Island. In New Guinea, B-24s attack Fann; B-25s
and A-20s hit oilfields at Klamono and at Kasim Island and bomb Nabire
Airfield; P-39s strafe Pegun Island; A-20s and fighter-bombers in support of
Allied forces pound enemy concentrations, supplies, and barges E of the
Driniumor River, at Abau, S of Torricelli Range, at Boram, and just W of
Wewak; and HQ 86th Fighter Wing moves from Finschhafen to Toem.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 12:16:00 +0000
From:    Daniel =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mal=E9part_=28514=29?= 283-0348
         <Daniel.Malepart@IRAP.NRC.CA>
Subject: GEN: Questions re. aviation

    Good morning, gentlepersons!

    I'd have two questions for the more aviation-inclined...

    Question 1: I remember reading years ago about an aircraft called the
    Consolidated Privateer.  If memory serves, this was a modification of
    the classic Liberator bomber, but with a single tail.  Anybody has
    info. on this one?  Was it used operationally during WWII?

    Question 2: A colleague of mine told me that the Smitshsonian was
    maintaining an FTP site from which you could download aircraft images
    (among other things).  Does it really exist?  If so, what's the
    address?

    Thanks very much in advance!

    Daniel Malepart, Computer specialist | "Il faut detester la guerre et
    Montreal, Quebec, Canada             | respecter ceux qui l'ont faite."
    daniel.malepart@irap.nrc.ca          | - Antoine de St-Exupery

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 06:13:52 -0700
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 05-AUG-1944

On 05-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In Brittany, the VIII Corps is attacking simultaneously to the
     west, southwest and south. The 6th Armoured Division continues to advance
     west towards Brest. The 83rd Division attacks the outer defences of the
     fortress of St Malo. Units of the 4th Armoured Division reach Vannes.
     Further east the 90th Division captures Mayenne and the 79th Division
     approaches Laval. In the 1st Army sector, the VII Corps continues to
     advance southeast of Mortain. The 29th Division (XIX Corps) is pushing
     on towards Vire.

Eastern Front - In southern Poland and northern Hungary, the Russians send the
     4th Ukraine Front into the line south of the 1st Ukraine Front.

The Homefront
-------------
New Explosive - The Army has announced that pentolite, an explosive 20% more
     powerfull than TNT, is now being used in rocket projectiles.

45 Killed In Wreck - Forty-five Negro laborers have been killed and more than
     30 injured when an Atlantic Coast Line train derailed near Stockton,
     Georgia.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  (jbd@netcom.com/jbd@osbm.state.nc.us)
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 09:17:03 -0400
From:    Wendy Slader <wslader@ACAD.BRYANT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Truman/Atom Bomb

On Sat, 30 Jul 1994, Terry Moore wrote:

>     Believe it or not, there was talk of inviting responsible
> Japanese representatives to this country through channels, of course,
> to view a demonstration of this weapon before its use, as a means of
> ending the war without its being used. The idea was discarded when it
> was felt that it wasn't certain if the device would work, that the
> Japanese would refuse such an invitation, and even if they did, they
> probably would think the demonstration a hoax.
>
>     Terry

  Hi Terry:

  Thanks for the info.  It stands to reason that somewhere along the line
it must have crossed somebody's mind to show a "preview."  However, it is
also true that war propaganda was so prevalent that the only reality for
many, unfortunately, was the "blast and the heat."  Worth a shot though,
I'd say; considering the magnitude of the potential outcome.  And if in
fact the Japanese had been forewarned to this degree, and they didn't buy
it, perhaps there would be less of us sitting here pondering the morality
of it all....

Best wishes

Wendy

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 09:17:55 -0400
From:    John Meierhoffer <JMEIERHO@MAIL.NYSED.GOV>
Subject: GEN: Questions re. aviation -Reply

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
     Question 2: A colleague of mine told me that the Smitshsonian was
    maintaining an FTP site from which you could download aircraft images
    (among other things).  Does it really exist?  If so, what's the
    address?

    Thanks very much in advance!

    Daniel Malepart, Computer specialist | "Il faut detester la guerre et
    Montreal, Quebec, Canada             | respecter ceux qui l'ont faite."
    daniel.malepart@irap.nrc.ca          | - Antoine de St-Exupery
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Perhaps the following  will help.  This is an abbreviated version.  The full version is
available on the Smithsonian FTP server.  I believe, but do not have the details that the
phote server is also available via gopher

John Meierhoffer, jmeierho@mail.nysed.gov

>From Smithsonian:


 WELCOME TO THE  "PHOTO1.SI.EDU"  FTP SERVER:
 ---------------------------------------

Welcome to "photo1.si.edu" located in the Smithsonian
Institution's Office of Printing & Photographic Services in
Washington, D.C.  "Photo1" is designed to make a variety of
Smithsonian photographs available as electronic image files.

Photo1 is available through the Internet as a result of Project
Chapman, a joint effort between this office and the Apple Library
of Tomorrow program.  See below and [ALOT-Chapman.txt].

Photo1 is a Macintosh Quadra 700 computer running A/UX software.
File names are case sensitive.

Anonymous users *MAY NOT* upload (PUT) files on to this FTP
server.

We request that you always provide a working E-mail address when
answering our FTP server's password prompt.  All accesses to and
file transfers from this FTP server are logged with your host
name and E-mail address.  Guests abusing the few rules that we
have will be denied access.  See PHOTO1 RULES below.

These images cover topics ranging from air and space to science,
technology, history, and even current events.  They are designed
to give the user who cannot come to Washington, the opportunity
to see and learn about many of the Smithsonian's most popular and
important objects and exhibits.

The images cover a broad spectrum of subjects which we hope will
interest our electronic audience.  Here we are able to present
photographs from many of our museums on the Mall in Washington,
plus other Smithsonian bureaus such as the National Zoo and the
Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory.

Starting with some of our best photographs, all scanning and
image preparation is done in our Electronic Imaging Laboratory.
In addition to the image, extensive captions are included as
part  of our mission for the "increase and diffusion of
knowledge."

These captions are either within the image file itself, (the 89a
Comment Block in GIF files; or captions in the JFIF.uu files read
with the ImageBrowser HyperCard stack); or are available as a
separate accompanying ASCII file in the folder PREVIEW-TEXT
[filename.ASC].

Individual image captions are also available in catalog programs
which are available on the server.  The PHOTO1 CATALOG is
available as both a DOS program and a Macintosh HyperCard Stack
which can be found in /images/catalogs.

Each catalog allows browsing of descriptions and file names as
well as searching for text strings.  Captions and other
information from the individual image files can be printed from
these programs.

We hope you enjoy these images and we invite comments via E-mail
to PSDMX@SIVM.SI.EDU.

The images here are in two forms.

1.  First, they are in the GIF format.  Remember that
    GIF's are only 8-bit images.  They are, however,
    hardware independent and are easily viewed on most 8-bit
    diaplays, and even on platforms providing only one-bit
    displays, such as the DOS Hercules or Macintosh Plus, SE and
    Classic systems.

    Macintosh users can use GIFCONVERTER 2.3.7 which is
        in APPS to view these files.

    DOS Users can use CSHOWA, which is also in APPS.

    Unix users can again use XLOADIMAGE.

2.  Secondly, we have the same image files in JFIF.uu.  These
    are the JPEG files which have been saved in JFIF (JPEG File
    Interchange Format), and which have also been .uu encoded so
    they appear as text files.  This format will benefit those
    who cannot easily transfer binary files.

    In APPS there are several HyperCard stacks [MakeJFIF] and
    [ImageBrowser] which have been provided courtesy of Apple
    Computer and can be used to download and view these JFIF.uu
    files.  Both are contained in [Image.Stacks.Hqx].  StuffIt
    will decode this binhexed file which can then be self-
    extracted on the Macintosh.

    DOS users can use UUENCODE, also found in APPS, to convert
    these files back to binary JFIF format.  Image Alchemy will
    then display or translate the file.

3.  There is also a PREVIEW-TEXT Folder.  This folder contains
    individual captions for each image as ASCII text files,
    [filename.ASC], and a series of "Preview" image files.  These
    previews are all in 16-color GIF format and should be
    downloaded and viewed much like a proof sheet, or page of
    slides.  The GIF 89a comment block contains a one-line
    description of each image file.  The previews shown in these
    GIFs are available as full-size image files in the respective
    JPEG, JFIF and GIF Folders.

  Text deleted ...........

                          PROJECT CHAPMAN

This Internet file server has been made possible through a
generous grant from the Apple Library of Tomorrow Program, under
Project Chapman (named for John Chapman, a.k.a. "Johnny
Appleseed").


       <Smithsonian Printing & Photographic Services>
                     <PSDMX@SIVM.SI.EDU>


December 22, 1992

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 10:01:31 -0500
From:    "Frank W. Patnaude,
         Jr. ACS x2857" <MIS0028%UMBCADMN.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: GEN: Churchill, Conventry, Ultra (Backround info wanted)

In Joe's ADMIN note, he mentioned the following question:

>        2. Did Churchill allow the bombing of Conventry to occur in order
>           to protect the secret of Ultra?

As I'm new to this list, could someone fill me in on this event ('cause I've
never heard of it) and the main conspiracy theory ('cause I'm curious). I'm
not looking to start an debate on the topic, I'm just looking for information.
Replying to me or the list is fine.
TIA

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Frank W. Patnaude, Jr.              | "Those who do not learn from
 Applications Programmer             |  History are destined to repeat it.
 University of Maryland              |  And the same goes for Science and
 Baltimore County Campus             |  Math."
 Frank_Patnaude@UMBCADMN.BITNET      |          - Woody Boyd, Cheers
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 10:35:42 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <dan.ford@UNH.EDU>
Subject: Wild Colonial Boys in the RAF

Sydney Allison recalls that the colonial air forces handed out commissions
left and right, while British aircrew had to be satisfied with sergeants'
stripes. That certainly wasn't the case in Burma. Here are all the RAF
fighter pilots who served in Burma from December 1941 to May 1942,
segregated as to their rank and the air forces they originally joined:

                      Officers               Sergeants
                      British/Colonial       British/Colonial

17 Sq Hurricane       7       7              3       7

135 Sq Hurricane      7       4              3       7

136 Sq Hurricane      8       1              6       5

67 Sq Buffalo         5       0              6       15

Altogether, 27 of the British pilots were officers, while 12 were
sergeants. The ratio is almost reversed for the colonial pilots:  18
officers, 34 sergeants. Since the three Hurricane squadrons were raised in
Britain--they were on their way to North Africa when diverted to
Burma--they were probably typical of RAF squadrons at the end of 1941.

As I noted in my earlier post, the "colonials" included five Americans.
John Barrick compiled one of the best combat records in the RAF in Burma.
C. E. Wisrodt was the last pilot killed in the defense of Rangoon, on
March 3, 1942. Both served in 17 Squadron, both were sergeants, and both
were nicknamed "Tex."

            - Dan      <dan.ford@unh.edu>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 10:20:32 PDT
From:    Ben Schapiro <Schapiro@NOTIS.COM>
Subject: Privateer

>Subject: RE:      GEN: Questions re. aviation
>
>
>    Good morning, gentlepersons!
>
>    I'd have two questions for the more aviation-inclined...
>
>    Question 1: I remember reading years ago about an aircraft called the
>    Consolidated Privateer.  If memory serves, this was a modification of
>    the classic Liberator bomber, but with a single tail.  Anybody has
>    info. on this one?  Was it used operationally during WWII?
>
> Thanks very much in advance!
>
>    Daniel Malepart, Computer specialist | "Il faut detester la guerre et
>    Montreal, Quebec, Canada             | respecter ceux qui l'ont faite."
>    daniel.malepart@irap.nrc.ca          | - Antoine de St-Exupery
>
Dan,
        To question 1. Yes the PB2Y Privateer was use extensively in the
Pacific by the USN. The Navy did start with some standard Liberators but had
the design modified with a longer fuselage and single tail. These heavily
armed aircraft were used for recon/strike missions but unlike their USAAF
cousins they did not fly in groups as strategic bombers. The PB2Y met a Navy
need for a very long range recon bomber. The PBY design had gone about as
far
as it could and greater range, payload and defensiuve ability was needed as
the war moved west. There is a book on the B-24 that devotes a chap. or two
to the Privateer but it's at home, I'll supply the reference tommorrow.
        These aircraft were effective in both the recon and strike roles,
sinking numerous cargo ships and downing several IJN recon seaplanes. I ave
some shots of a PB2Y shooting down an EMILY.

Ben Schapiro
Customer Support Coordinator
NOTIS Systems, Inc.

schapiro@notis.com
css@notis.com

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 11:50:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Hiroshima

There is an article on Page A4 of the metro edition of the NEW YORK TIMES
today (August 4) titled HIROSHIMA JOURNAL - MUSEUM'S A-BOMB MESSAGE:
THERE'S MORE TO IT.  The first paragraph sets the tone for the article.

  "For two generations the millions of Japanese schoolchildren who filed
through the grim exhibits of the atomic bomb museum at ground zero here saw
history through Hiroshima's distinctive prism, and they could easily be
forgiven for thinking that World War II started on Aug. 6, 1945."

Since it's creation, the city's Peace Memorial Museum has only given the
briefest reference to the politics of WWII or Japan's responsibility for
starting the war.  Instead, the museum has fed Japan's sense of
victimization, retelling the horror stories of what happened to the people
who were in Hiroshima when the bomb was dropped.

However, a new museum has been built connected to the old museum and it is
intended to fill Hiroshima's historical amnesia with details about the role
the city played in the Japanese war effort.  One of the main architects of
this new effort is Hiroshima's mayor, a former journalist, who has angered
Japanese rightists who have long opposed mixing the history of the war with
the bombing of Hiroshima.

For the first time, the people are learning of the factories that turned
out military hardware and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries where warships were
built.  There are photographs of Korean and Chinese workers brought to
Japan as forced laborers and the military HQ in the center of town.  There
is even a photograph of a lantern parade celebrating the capture of Nanjing,
China although the Japanese-language caption skirts the issue of how many
Chinese were killed by the Japanese during the "Rape of Nanking."  The
caption says that there are "several theories, ranging from tens to hundreds
of thousands" but the English-language caption uses the Chinese estimate of
300,000.

One woman who had moved to Hiroshima in 1952 said, "I didn't know how
deeply Hiroshima was involved in the war" and students said they knew so
little about the war that they were having a hard time making sense of the
exhibits.

The article goes on to explore the issue of the Smithsonians Enola Gay
exhibit.  The Mayor of Hiroshima has agreed to lend some of the museum's
exhibits to the Smithsonian after the Americans assured Japanese officials
that the Smithsonian would give equal weight to the political decision that
led to dropping the bomb and to the devastation it caused.

As reported in various posts to this group, US veterans fear that the
Smithsonian will fail to treat the Enola Gay as a hero.  The Air Force
Association (AFA) has said it is concerned that the exhibit will treat
"Japan and the U.S. as if their participation in the war was morally
equivalent."  The AFA goes on to say that it would be wrong to pull
heartstrings by portraying Hiroshima's devastation.  A Smithsonian official
said that "the (US) veterans wanted the exhibit to stop when the doors of
the bomb bay opened and that's where the Japanese wanted it to begin."

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 12:34:47 EDT
From:    Kurt Luginbyhl <MNHAD007@SIVM.SI.EDU>
Subject: Hiroshima

A rather new exhibit has opened at the Smithsonians' National Portrait Gallery
Reporting The War (The Journalistic Coverage of World War II)

This exhibit has a balance of video, radio recordings, pictures drawings carto
ons,photos and wonderful stories about the men and women who covered the war.

Journalists such as Hemmingway, Murrow, cartoonists like Mauldin
Photogs such as Joe Rosenthal (iwo jima) and Gene Smith also others that most
of us would recognize either by name or deed.  Dan De Luce, Ernie Pyle (who los
t his life covering the war) and writer Richard Tregakis who produced
Guadalcanal Diary.

Overall an interesting and somewhat warmly compelling exhibit if your in town
it is worth an hour.
8th and F streets DC

Let me know if I can provide more info!

MNHAD007@sivm.si.edu

H. A. Kurt Luginbyhl
Scientific Computer Specialist
National Museum of Natural History
Washington D.C. 20560

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 12:53:39 EDT
From:    Richard Kaplan <kaplanr@CLP2.CLPGH.ORG>
Subject: US preparedness 1939

I thought the list would appreciate this, its just a shame I can't upload the
photos.

While browsing our Dewey collection, I came across a 200 page book entitled:

                        The Army of the United States:
                        Its components, its arms, services,
                        and bureaus, its military and
                        nonmilitary activities.

Senate Document #91, 76th Congress, 1st session.
"Prepared by the War Department for Morris Sheppard, chairman of the Committee
on Military Affairs of the Senate."
                                Submitted to the Senate June 7, 1939


The book has short general descriptions of the components, manpower and weapons
in the existing US Army.  The photos are of either neatly turned out soldiers
in WW-I helmets, or wide brimmed campaign hats.  Most are holding Springfields,
wear puttees instead of leggins, and have small packs with gas mask cases.
A goodly portion of the army's mobility, if the book is any indication, was
still horse drawn.  Substantial sections are devoted, with pictures, to the
importance of the cavalry, and to horse drawn field artillery.

One of the clearer pictures shows a 75mm pack howitzer with a caisson being
pulled by 4 or 6 horses with soldiers mounted on three of them.  On the
caission's left side is the insignia of the the 1st Cavalry Div. (Yellow
shield, diagonol stripe, horse head profile in upper right)

The other noticable weapons are the variety of 14" and 16" coast artillery, and
railroad guns.  The aircraft illustrated as being the mainstays of the AAC are
Seversky P-35s, Northrop A-17s (look like Vindicators) and Douglas B-18 medium
bombardment airplanes.  The future of the AAC is indicated with a flight of
very early B-17s passing by the Empire State Building; these have the narrow
tail, and bubble canopies on the sides and for the radio operator.  The other
future planes pictured are the Curtiss P-36, Lockheed XP-38, and Curtiss XP-40.
There are also two really unusual planes that I would like to find out about:
the Bell XFM-1 and the Curtiss A-18.

The Bell XFM-1 looks like a much shortened B-29 (cigar shape), with two
engines.  These are pusher engines, with the front of the engine housings on
each wing being a cockpit with what looks like long cannon or MGs sticking out.
The A-18 has a double tail, a longer cockpit (room for 2) than a P-38, and
radial engines. The Curtiss P-36 also gets an honorable mention.

I'll try to include more later.


                                        Richard Kaplan
                                        Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 12:31:52 -0500
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <mslrc@UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: Postwar pogroms in Poland

There is a book -- by Checiwinski (sp?), I believe -- which
  covers this in detail.  C. accuses the NKVD of starting the
  pogroms, in order to isolate the Poles, politically,
  internationally.

Remember that most indigenous peoples of Eastern Europe saw
  the Jews and Communists as symbiotic.  The Poles couldn't
  take vengeance on the Soviets for their postwar subjugation/
  misery, but the Jews -- as usual -- were the proxies.

Anti-Semitism certainly has been a factor in Polish society,
  but the (prewar) upper classes were very liberal-minded.
  Marshal Pilsudski did his best to discourage anti-Semitism.

Of course, it was this very intelligentsia which Stalin strove
  to exterminate in the Katyn killings and later.  (There are
  reports of mass NKVD exterminations of young Home Army men
  and women, who couldn't be traced in the carnage of 1944.)

This is in my thesis, of course.  Again:

    Byrd.mu.wvnet.edu   /pub/history/military/wwii/special.
                                       studies/katyn.massacre
    (Set to binary.)

Lou Coatney, Historian at Large

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 14:35:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Test

This is a test.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 13:18:00 PDT
From:    Julie Jenkins <ECZ5JXJ@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
Subject: NYT article

At the risk of driving everyone completely over the edge, I want to urge anyone
who can or who still cares to see today's--8/4--NY Times.  There is an article
about Hiroshima's new museum, designed to complement the Peace Memorial.  This
museum is about pre-bomb Hiroshima--the militarization, the slave labor, the
war factories, the public approval, everything.  It's astounding Hiroshimans--
students interviewed say that they know so little about the war that they can't
really follow the exhibits.  But one very intriguing point is that the museum
has its info panels in English as well as Japanese.  And to spotlight how dicey
the war is in Japan, a panel in English about the big celebratory parade in H.
after the Nanjing fell says that Chinese casualties are estimated at 300 thous.
while the Japanese panel says there are "many theories about the nos. from
thousands to hundreds of thousands."  No one coming to the museum had any idea
of any of it, even people who have lived there for 40 years.  For them history
started post bomb.

H. has also agreed to lend material to us for the Enola Gay exhibit once they
decided that we were not going to glamorize the whole thing.  The new H. muse-
does not agree that dropping the bomb was called for but it does provide panels
that explain Truman's alternative--the museum follows the theory that T.
dropped the bomb primarily for post war global political reasons.  But the rea-
son we're getting Japanese stuff is because the Enola G exhibit is contextuali-
zing everything.  As we know, some people feel that the Enola G exhibit does
not valorize the flyers sufficiently, but a Smithsonian man put the whole con-
troversy in a nutshell, he said that people in the US want an Enola G exhibit
to END when the bomb bay doors open and people in Japan want their exhibit to
START when the bomb hits the ground.

I wonder if our exhibit will have panels in English & Japanese as well?  Does
anyone know?  Julie

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 17:30:36 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <dan.ford@UNH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hiroshima

On Thu, 4 Aug 1994, mc killop wrote:
> One woman who had moved to Hiroshima in 1952 said, "I didn't know how
> deeply Hiroshima was involved in the war" and students said they knew so
> little about the war that they were having a hard time making sense of the
> exhibits.

Not at all unusual, I suspect. When I was translating Japanese memoirs of
the air war in SE Asia in 1941-42, I had the help of a young woman of
about 26, a university graduate and I think a Tokyo resident. She knew
nothing about the war and had great difficulty in translating words or
concepts having to do with military actions. She did not understand how
bombs fell, or that a pilot could bail out of an airplane.

We had a feature film about the 64th (Kato) sentai, the most famous army
fighter group. At one point all the pilots jump to their feet and sing the
regimental hymn. Very stirring. Anyhow, when Miyuki went home for
Christmas she told her parents what she was doing, and her mother stood up
and sang the 64th sentai song, having presumably seen that movie as a
child. It was as if the Japanese drew a curtain in 1945 and never looked
behind it again.

            - Dan      <dan.ford@unh.edu>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 17:50:28 -0500
From:    TOM BROWN <LAKE_TPB@VXC.OCIS.UNCWIL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Test

Did you pass the test??

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 21:15:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 5 AUG 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SATURDAY, 5 AUGUST 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  Beaufighter, Bristol
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): A weather mission is followed by a shipping
sweep flown by 2 B-25s which is aborted early due to weather.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 14 B-25s bomb the town area of
Taungni and stores area at Bilumyo; 50 P-51s also pound the Taungni area; 21
P-47s attack targets of opportunity throughout the widespread area around
Bhamo. In India, the 10th Combat Cargo Squadron, 3d Combat Cargo Group, moves
from Sylhet to Dergaon with C-47s.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 15 B-25s bomb the town of Wanling;
3 hit Lashio Airfield, Burma; 36 P-40s again pound Tengchung; in the
Tungting Lake area 50+ P-40s attack communications targets, troops, and
numerous trucks.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 519: In the morning, 1,171
bombers and 646 fighters are dispatched to attack strategic targets in the
Magdeburg-Brunswick-Hannover region of Germany including oil refineries and
tank and aircraft production; 13 bombers and 4 fighters are lost:
  1. Of 215 B-17s, 93 hit Magdeburg/Neustadt, 87 hit Magdeburg/Krupp, 14 hit
Helmstedt Airfield and 6 hit targets of opportunity; they claim 3-1-3
Luftwaffe aircraft; 3 B-17s are lost and 189 damaged; 2 airmen are KIA, 8 WIA
and 28 MIA. Escort is provided by 174 P-38s and P-51s; they claim 19-1-7
aircraft in the air and 1-0-2 on the ground; 1 P-38 and 3 P-51s are lost
(pilots are MIA) and 1 P-38 and 5 P-51s are damaged; 1 pilot is KIA and 1
WIA.
  2. 70 of 78 B-24s hit Halberstadt Airfield and 1 hits a target of
opportunity; 1 B-24 is lost and 7 damaged; 9 airmen are MIA. Escort is
provided by 41 of 47 P-47s; they claim 4-0-1 aircraft.
  3. Of 452 B-24s, 98 hit Brunswick Aero-Engineering, 85 hit Fallerslaben, 69
hit Brunswick/Wilhelmitor, 65 hit Brunswick/Me 110 Assembly Plant, 44 hit
Brunswick/Bussing, 30 hit Brunswick aircraft components factory, 9 hit Goslar
Airfield and 8 hit targets of opportunity; 7 B-24s are lost, 2 damaged beyond
repair and 147 damaged; 13 airmen are KIA, 5 WIA and 55 MIA. Escort is
provided by 172 of 188 P-51s; they claim 5-0-1 in the air and 3-0-3 on the
ground; 1 P-51 is damaged.
  4. Of 426 B-17s, 176 hit Nienburg, 143 hit Hannover/Langenhagen Airfield,
72 hit Dollbergen and 3 hit targets of opportunity; 2 B-17s are lost, 1 is
damaged beyond repair and 130 are damaged; 2 airmen are KIA, 5 WIA and 15
MIA. Escort is provided by 186 of 197 P-51s; they claim 1-0-0 aircraft; 2
P-51s are lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 6 damaged; 2 pilots are MIA.
  Mission 520: 38 of 39 B-17s hit 6 V-weapon sites in the Pas de Calais; 19
B-17s are damaged. Escort is provided by 10 of 12 P-51s; they claim 0-0-1
aircraft on the ground.
  Mission 522: 6 of 6 B-17s drop leaflets in the Netherlands and France
during the night.
  19 B-24s fly CARPETBAGGER missions during the night.
  In England, HQ 492d Bombardment Group (Heavy) moves from North Pickenham to
Harrington; and the 406th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), VIII Air Force
Composite Command [attached to 801st Bombardment Group (Provisional)], moves
from Harrington to Cheddington with B-24s.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In order that operations controlled
by the Ninth Air Force be developed in close association with HQ 12th Army
Group, the Ninth's HQ at Uxbridge and Grandcamp-les-Bains are closed and a
single HQ opened the following day (6 Aug) at Saint-Sauveur-Lendelin, France
near both Advance HQ 12th Army Group and Advance HQ Allied Expeditionary Air
Force (AEAF). HQ 50th and 53d Troop Carrier Wings of the IX Troop Carrier
Command are attached to the Mediterranean Allied Air Force (MAAF) for the
purpose of forming, with HQ 51st Troop Carrier Wing, a Provisional Troop
Carrier Air Division to handle the airborne phase of the invasion of S
France; and HQ 406th Fighter Group moves from Ashford, England to Tour-en-
Bassin. In England, HQ 397th Bombardment Group (Medium) and 597th and 599th
Bombardment Squadrons (Medium) move from Rivenhall to Hurn with B-26s.
  In France, 300+ A-20s and B-26s bomb Saint-Malo harbor and Foret de Sille
fuel dump during the night of 4/5 Aug, and during the day, rail bridges at 6
cities in N and W France, and marshalling yard at Compiegne; fighters furnish
cover for ground forces and fly armed reconnaissance over wide areas of N
France.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, weather again restricts
operations; A-20s on armed reconnaissance in the Po Valley during the night
of 4/5 Aug attack lights and vehicles; fighter-bombers fly a few unsuccessful
missions against bridges; and the detachment of the 415th Night Fighter
Squadron, 64th Fighter Wing (attached to 87th Fighter Wing), operating form
Piombino, Italy returns to base at Solonzara, Corsica with Beaufighters.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-25s from Saipan Island fly 2
strikes against Guam Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s bomb
personnel and supply areas on Yap Island; other B-24s bomb oil facilities at
Boela, Ceram Island and a few bomb Sasa Airfield, Philippine Islands while
B-25s hit villages and small boats near Seleman Bay, Celebes Islands and
afterwards bomb Besar Island, Sunda Islands. In New Guinea, B-24s attack a
seaplane anchorage at Kokas while P-39s strafe barges in the W Geelvink Bay
area; despite bad weather, P-39s manage to hit Luain gun positions and
ammunition dump; and HQ 6th Photographic Reconnaissance Group and 26th
Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron move from Nadzab and Hollandia
respectively to Biak Island with F-5s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

05/0118Z AUG

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 18:47:36 -0700
From:    Ed Kettler <deradler@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: GEN: Questions re. aviation

Daniel,

The following information is from Jane's All the World's Aircraft 1945-46
edition.

"The PB4Y-2 is a long-range oversea Bomber-Reconnaissance development of
the PB4Y-1 Liberator.  The original concept for the PB4Y-2 was placed
with the Consolidated Vultee Corporation by the US Navy in May 1943, and
work on threee prototypes was begun almost immediately.  Four months
later, on September 20, 1943, the first prototype flew, followed on
October 30 and December 15 by the second and third respectively.

"The PB4Y-2 uses the same Davis wing and landing gear as the Liberator.
Otherwise it is a new design embodying most of the structural features of
its predecessor."

Fuselage was lengthened 7 feet in fron of the wing.  Armament was a power
turret w/2 0.50 mgs in the nose, two dorsal turrets w/2 0.50 mgs each, a
power turret w/2 0.50 mgs in the tail.  There were waist gun blisters w/2
0.50 mgs on each side aft of the wings.  The main visible
distinguishing feature was the tall single vertical tail instead of the
twin tails of the Liberator series.  Crew was eleven: pilot, copilot,
navigator, bombadier, 5 gunners and 2 radio operators.

The Privateer did see combat in the Pacific, but I don't have any details.

Hope that helps,

Ed Kettler                                       deradler@netcom.com


On Thu, 4 Aug 1994, Daniel =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mal=E9part_=28514=29?= 283-0348 wrote:

>     Good morning, gentlepersons!
>
>     I'd have two questions for the more aviation-inclined...
>
>     Question 1: I remember reading years ago about an aircraft called the
>     Consolidated Privateer.  If memory serves, this was a modification of
>     the classic Liberator bomber, but with a single tail.  Anybody has
>     info. on this one?  Was it used operationally during WWII?
>
>     Question 2: A colleague of mine told me that the Smitshsonian was
>     maintaining an FTP site from which you could download aircraft images
>     (among other things).  Does it really exist?  If so, what's the
>     address?
>
>     Thanks very much in advance!
>
>     Daniel Malepart, Computer specialist | "Il faut detester la guerre et
>     Montreal, Quebec, Canada             | respecter ceux qui l'ont faite."
>     daniel.malepart@irap.nrc.ca          | - Antoine de St-Exupery
>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 22:47:19 -0400
From:    Emery Ford <eford@DELPHI.UMD.EDU>
Subject: GEN:  CHEM WARFARE IN WW2

Hello folks,

I never realized how close we came to chemical warfare in WW2.  I
thought I'd take out another couple of paragraphs from _A_WORLD_AT_ARMS_,
by Gerhard Weinberg, to share with everyone.  Does anyone have any
additional information?

Emery

======================================================================
        The United States built up a very large stock of the gases used
in World War I for employment in case either the Germans or the Japanese
urned to theis weapon.  Although the possibility of the use of gas in
combat was considered in the preliminary discussions of the invasion of
Iwo Jima and the Japanese home islands in 1945, such projects were
always vetoed by the President or dropped by the military on their own.
The shipment of chemical warfare shells to the theaters of war for use
if retaliatory employment proved necessary led to the greatest loss of
life in a gas accident during the war.  A German air force bombing raid
on the ships in the harbor of Bari in Italy on December 2, 1943, led to
the destruction of one ship (among seventeen) which carried 100 tons of
mustard gas in bombs; over a thousand Allied personnel and Italian
civilians being killed as a result.
        Far larger numbers had been killed accidentally and
intentionally by the Japanese, who had built up a large poison gas
program beginning in the last months of World War I.  They repeatedly
used gas for experiments and in the war against China.  Perhaps because
this employment was almost all carried out before the Japanese attacked
the United States, Britain, and the Netherlands, the Western Powers
chose not to retaliate in kind.  This subject still awaitsfurther
invesigation.  The employment by the Japanese of a German-invented gas
grenade in the Imphal campaign in the summer of 1944 was seen as an
isolated, and quite possibly unauthorized, incident.  Improper
safeguards and processes left hundreds of former workers in the Japanese
at Okunoshima in damaged health.

_A_WORLD_AT_ARMS_, pp.559

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 3 Aug 1994 to 4 Aug 1994
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 19 messages totalling 826 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Wild Colonial Boys in the RAF
  2. INF: USN Chronology 08-05-94
  3. GEN: Info on Chiemsee
  4. Navy News
  5. INF: Fessin' Up (2)
  6. Privateer
  7. GEN: Questions re. aviation
  8. [GEN] Questions re. aviation
  9. gen: chem warfare in ww2
 10. GEN:83rd CMB (2)
 11. INF: 50 Years Ago - 06-AUG-1944
 12. Pogroms in Poland
 13. Jews, Poles -- and Soviets
 14. INF: Thompsons for sale
 15. Sergeant-pilots
 16. MODELS:  Progress.  :-)
 17. [INF] USAAF 6 AUG 44

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Aug 1994 23:11:08 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Wild Colonial Boys in the RAF

Don...
Please... Do not put words into my mouth.
Contrary to what you posted, I did *not* say that "colonial air forces
handed out commissions right and left". Nor did I say that "while RAF
pilots had to be content with sergeant's stripes".
I did not say thay. You chose to infer that from what I actually did
say, that Dominion (not "colonial") air forces were were more generous
with commissions proportionally than the RAF.
Clearly, it would be inaccurate for anyone to say that "RAF pilots had
to be content with sergeants stripes" with the implication that *all*
RAF pilots had only Sgt stripes. Obviously, a great number, by war's end,
*most* RAF pilots were being commissioned.
Though that Burma example obviously has caught your imagination, and is
of course interesting in itself, it by no means can be extrapolated as
"typical" of the entire policy of the RAF and Dominion air forces throughout
1939-1945.
Just by the way, I am not likely to mistake this issue, having had a certain
amount of first hand experience with it.
        This threatens to become one of those tiresome wrangles. Let's leave
it there and press on.
Cheers -- Sidney.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 01:41:11 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 08-05-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
08/05 Sat. Aircraft from two carrier task groups (Rear Adm. J. J. Clark
           and Rear Adm. A. E. Montgomery) and cruisers and destroyers
           (Rear Adm. L. T. DuBose) bomb and bombard enemy installa-
           tions on Chichi Jima and Haha Jima, Bonin Islands.
           Fast Carrier Task Force is reorganized into First Fast
Carrier
           Task Force, Pacific Fleet (Vice Adm. M. A. Mitscher) and
           Second Fast Carrier Task Force, Pacific Fleet (Vice Adm. J.
S.
           McCain).
            Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             Transport NO. 2, by carrier-based aircraft,
              27 d. 05'N., 142 09'E.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 12:01:10 CET
From:    "LTC Donnell, Doug" <4atf@PIRMASENS-EMH1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: GEN: Info on Chiemsee

Hello everyone -

I'm back on line after about 2 1/2 weeks of trying to show my in-laws
"Europe in 2 weeks".  I'm *almost* glad to be back at the office to get
some rest.  We visited several places that might be of interest to the
list, so I'll post some info on them over the next few days.

We stayed three nights at the Armed Forces Rec Center hotel at Chiemsee,
located on the Autobahn between Munich and Salzburg.  While I knew that
the facility was built in the 30's and was used by the Nazi's I never
really knew it's history.

The following is extracted from a small book they sell at the hotel
called "The Chiemsee Hotels" by John Provan.

The creation of this hotel is first and foremost tied to the construction
of the German Autobahns by Hitler early during his dictatorship.  In a
speech given on May 1, 1933 (labor day), he introduced his road construction
plan.  On June 30, Hitler appointed the competent and talented Dr Fritz
Todt (1891-1942) to organize and construct a system of fast roads to
connect all parts of Germany.  Todt would later use this experience
when creating the "Organization Todt"  which began fortifying Germany
in 1938 via the "West Wall".

Work officially began on this network of highways with ceremonies near
Frankfurt on Sept 23, 1933.  The Reichautobahn Co. betan with a capital of
50 million RM;  200 million RM were later added.  With these funds, the
Reichautobahn Co began erecting roads, bridges, gasoline stations,
tunnels; and later, the only Rasthaus (autobahn hotel), at Chiemsee.

The program commenced in 1933 with a crew of 1000 workers.  Within one year
this figure increased to 85,000.  Later, an average of 130,000 men worked
on the Autobahn construction.   One of the most important section of this
roadway for Hitler was the one between Munich and Salzburg.  Although
Berlin was the capital of Germany, Hitler wanted his home in Berchtesgarden
to impress visiting dignitaries.  The construction of these roads, along
with airports such as Stuttgart, Frankfurt and Tempelhof in Berlin, were
intended to demonstrated to the world how far advanced Germany was
becoming under the rule of the Nazis.  Hitler would fly into Munich and
travel via car to his home on the Obersalzberg on these newly built roads.
He observed the constuction of this section during a visit on Nov 7, 1934.
The road was dedicated in jan 1936 in time for the olympic Games in
nearby Garmisch.

The lack of hotels along the highway forced the creation of rest stops with
running water, as most travelers had to stay overnight in tents along the
roadside.  The Hotel Chiemsee was intended to increase hotel space as
well as locate a hotel directly on this part of the highway.  The
plans for the Chiemsee Hotel were created in 1936.  The site selected
for constuction was fixed on the southern edge of Lake Chiemsee, right
along the Munich-Salzburg Autobahn.

Hitler himself had several apparent reasons for wanting this hotel.  As
mentioned earlier, this hotel fits into a general scheme to impress
dignitaries traveling to Obersalzberg.  He had one large round room
reserved for his personal use at all times.

The Chiemsee Hotel definitely was to play a role in the huge "Hohe Schule
am Chiemsee", (School of Higher Learning) intended to be built on the
north eastern side of the lake about 9 miles from the hotel.  This
institution was to be the center of higher learning in Nazi Germany.  The
well known Professor Hermann Giesler was entrusted by Hitler with it's
design.  The structure was to have been over one mile long with a single
large lofty central building.  Plans and a model were finalized in 1938,
but the construction never began.

The Cheimsee Hotel was officially opened on Sept 1, 1938 with a grand open
house, during which some 10,000 cars are reported to have parked on the
grounds.

With the outbreakof WWII, the Chiemsee Hotel was turned into a convalescent
hospital.  Dr Todt turned the hotel over the the German Army on April 28,
1940, thus ending it's short history as a hotel.

WWII passed by the Chiemsee Hotel without any destruction or damage.  US
forces occupied the area during the Spring of 1945 and continued to use it
as a convalescent hospital for wounded soldiers.  The Armed Forces
Recreation Center (AFRC) was created by general order on Dec 5, 1945 to
provide inexpensive vacation resorts for US soldiers overseas.  Former
hotels and Nazi facilties were rebuilt or repaired and turned over to AFRC.

         Typos are mine - I apologize - also I've edited the original
text to some extent.  BTW, AFRC Chiemsee will close on 5 Sept and the
facility in its entirety will be turned over to the German government.

Sorry for the length, but thought this might be of interest to the list.

                        Doug Donnell
                        Ruppertsweiler, Germany

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 07:13:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Navy News

FROM THE NAVY NEWS SERVICE


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Navy News Service - NAVNEWS BY EMAIL
-----------------------------------------------------------------
NAVY NEWS SERVICE - 03 AUG 94 - NAVNEWS 047/94
     TABLE OF CONTENTS FOR NAVNEWS 047/94
NNS506.  This Week in the Navy:  Aug. 9, 1942
                                  -USN-
NNS506.  This Week in the Navy: Aug. 9, 1942 -- U.S. Marines landed
on Guadalcanal in the Solomons Islands, in the first American
offensive action in the Pacific.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 18:49:00 +0000
From:    Daniel =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mal=E9part_=28514=29?= 283-0348
         <Daniel.Malepart@IRAP.NRC.CA>
Subject: Re: INF: Fessin' Up

    >This, gentlemen, is my counterpart, General Vogel.  When I look at his
    >face, I see a loser.  I'm sitting in his headquarters; I'm drinking
    >his wine; hell, I even have one of his broads hanging around here
    >somewhere.  Yet you, gentlemen, have not buried him and I want to know
    >why!

    ... all this while holding a picture of Hasso von Manteuffel! (sp?)

    Quoted from Kelly's Heroes...  yes, the one with Clint Eastwood, Telly
    Savalas, Donald Sutherland, etc. etc.

    Daniel Malepart, Computer specialist | "Il faut detester la guerre et
    Montreal, Quebec, Canada             | respecter ceux qui l'ont faite."
    daniel.malepart@irap.nrc.ca          | - Antoine de St-Exupery

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 09:38:34 -0400
From:    John Meierhoffer <JMEIERHO@MAIL.NYSED.GOV>
Subject: Privateer

>    Question 1: I remember reading years ago about an aircraft called the
>    Consolidated Privateer.  If memory serves, this was a modification of
>    the classic Liberator bomber, but with a single tail.  Anybody has
>    info. on this one?  Was it used operationally during WWII?
>

This aircraft was a PB4Y.  It was produced in two versions, the -1 was similar to the Air
Force B-24s that is they had the twin tail.  The Navy used 977 of this type.  The tall-tail
version was the  PB4Y-2; its development began in May 1943. and a production order
was placed in October of that year.  Eventually 736 were built.

First combat mission for the PB4Y-2 was in January 1945.  One squadron (VP-24) had
Privateers equipped with an ASM-N-2 Bat anti-shipping glide bomb with radar homing.
By the end of the war, seven Navy squadrons had  been equipped with the Privateer and
one time or another.

The Privateer was used in a maritime patrol role in the post-war period by the Navy and
ended up being used as target drone in the late 50's and early 60's.  As of 1979, some
examples were being used as fire bombers.

There was another tall tail version used as a cargo plane, with the Navy designation RY-3
(39 built)

Books

_Bombers in Blue: PB4Y Privateers and  PB4Y-1 Liberators_   Frederick A. Johnson
(1979)

_The B24 Liberator, 1938-1945_   Martin Bowman (1980)

_United States Navy Aircraft since 1911_  Gordon, Swanborough, Peter M. Bowers
(1968)

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 08:35:41 PDT
From:    Ben Schapiro <Schapiro@NOTIS.COM>
Subject: Re: GEN: Questions re. aviation

>    Good morning, gentlepersons!
>
>    I'd have two questions for the more aviation-inclined...
>
>    Question 1: I remember reading years ago about an aircraft called the
>    Consolidated Privateer.  If memory serves, this was a modification of
>    the classic Liberator bomber, but with a single tail.  Anybody has
>    info. on this one?  Was it used operationally during WWII?
>
>
>    Daniel Malepart, Computer specialist | "Il faut detester la guerre et
>    Montreal, Quebec, Canada             | respecter ceux qui l'ont faite."
>    daniel.malepart@irap.nrc.ca          | - Antoine de St-Exupery
>
Dan,

Did I say PB2Y? That's what I get for not having my library at work! The PB4Y
is covered in Martin Bowman's book "The B-24 Liberator 1939-1945" Rand
McNally ISBN 528-81538-5 1979 or 1980. The PB4Y-1 was a standard twin tailed
airframe while the PB4Y-2 had the single tail and a seven foot 7 inch
fuselage extension. The last two chapters cover PB4Y operations.

More later.


Ben Schapiro
Customer Support Coordinator
NOTIS Systems, Inc.

schapiro@notis.com
css@notis.com
708-866-1100

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 09:41:19 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Re: INF: Fessin' Up

What unit was O'Connor supposed to have been commanding?
What German unit would it have been facing at Nancy?

Dan writes,...
>    >This, gentlemen, is my counterpart, General Vogel.  When I look at his
>    >face, I see a loser.  I'm sitting in his headquarters; I'm drinking
>    >his wine; hell, I even have one of his broads hanging around here
>    >somewhere.  Yet you, gentlemen, have not buried him and I want to know
>    >why!
>
>    ... all this while holding a picture of Hasso von Manteuffel! (sp?)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Wild, LAN Mgr.  Father of 1.8815          Voice:          (401) 792-2611
ACC - Lippitt - URI  American Legion Post 102. FAX:            (401) 792-5479
Kingston, RI  02881  NRA Life Member           BITNET:           AWild@URIACC
                                               Internet: AWild@URIACC.URI.EDU

"Duties and responsibilities were woven into the fabric of pre-D-Day living.
It was a self-disciplined, free society that those troops cherished, and they
fought a war for it.

The Woodstock celebrants won a cultural war eliminating both the standards
of, and the respect for, self-discipline.

The spoils of that victory are numerous and devastating.
                                                          -John A. Howard
                                                           Rockford Institute
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 09:19:50 CDT
From:    Robert Hohlt <rhohlt@MGMSERV1.MGM.SAIC.COM>
Subject: [GEN] Questions re. aviation

On Thursday Aug 4, Daniel Malepart wrote:

>Question 1: I remember reading years ago about an aircraft called the
>Consolidated Privateer.  If memory serves, this was a modification of
>the classic Liberator bomber, but with a single tail.  Anybody has
>info. on this one?  Was it used operationally during WWII?

Daniel:

The LONE STAR Flight museum in Galveston, Texas. has one of these on
display.  Not sure if it is just static or flyable.  Many of their
aircraft are flyable.  However,... really did several triple takes
when I first looked at this thing.

regards,


Robert Hohlt, Jr.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 10:32:46 -0500
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <TWATTS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU>
Subject: gen: chem warfare in ww2

Emery Ford quoted several paragraphs from A WORLD AT ARMS on the topic
of chemical (gas) warfare.  Ironically, on Wednesday, there was a report
on the Reuters wire service and the Kyodo News Service about a recently
re-discovered report on Japanese poison gas production in WWII.

        The report was produced by the US Army shortly after the war and
was filed in the National Archives.  History Professor Yoshiaki Yoshimi,
Chuo University discovered it.  According to the report, between 1931 and
1944, the Japanese Imperial Army produced 6,600 tons of poison gas at a
factory on Okunoshima island in Hiroshima prefecture, western Japan.  The
total included 4,400 tons of mustard gas and lewisite.  From the gas,
5.78 million shells were produced at that factory, with a further 1.61
million shells produced at another factory on Kyushu.  Previous reports
by the Japanese admitted to only about 2 million shells.

        Experimental production began in 1928.  The apparatus to produce
the gas originally came from France.  Production began in earnest when
war broke out with China.  Most of the poison gas shells were left in
China and apparently remain there today (apparently buried and lost).
Yoshino said the production corresponds to the period when Japan staged
a large-scale poison gas attack in China.

        The Japanese Imperial Navy separately produced about 700 tons of
poison gas after 1941, according to Yoshino.

Just thought you all would be interested.
Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University
twatts@exodus.valpo.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 10:56:30 CST
From:    "ROBERT ROY(Southern Illinois University)" <CA0032@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU>
Subject: GEN:83rd CMB

    I HAVE A QUESTION SOMEONE ON THE LIST MIGHT BE OF HELP.  I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO SERVED IN WW II WITH THE 83RD CHEMICAL MORTER BATT. IN
NORTH AFRICA,ITALY,AND GERMANY. I HAVE HEARD THIS UNIT HAD MORE COMBAT
DAYS ON THE LINE THAN ANY OTHER UNIT IN ETO, THEY DID MAKE ALL THE
CAMPAIGNS UP THROUGH SICILY,ITALY,AND SOUTHERN FRANCE/GERMANY.  WHAT
WAS THE MAIN FUNCTION OF A CMB, AND DOES ANYONE HAVE MORE INFO IN THE
83RD CMB, AND/OR BOOKS ON THE SUBJECT ?

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 09:33:25 -0700
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 06-AUG-1944

On 06-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The VIII Corps (3rd Army) continues its offensive in Brittany.
     Units of the 8th and 83rd Divisions attack the north coast of the Dinard
     peninsula, to the west of St Malo. The 4th Armoured Division is advancing
     on Lorient. Further east, the XV Corps is making good progress towards Le
     Mans; while the 79th Division captures Laval, south of Mayenne. The 3rd
     Armoured Division of the VII Corps (1st Army) also reaches Mayenne from
     the north. The 29th Division takes Vire.

Italian Front - The Allied forces in Florence begin to cross the Arno into the
     northern half of the city.

Marianas - On Guam, the Marines and Infantry now occupy two-thirds of the
     island. The Japanese send in tanks against the 305th Regiment of the 77th
     Infantry Division, inflicting serious losses on the Americans.

New Guinea - In the Aitape sector, hard fighting is occuring between the
     Americans and the Japanese rearguards.

Burma - The British and Indian XXXIII Corps are ordered to advance to the
     Chindwin and to occupy Sittaung and Kalewa.

Naval Dispatches
----------------
German submarines U-471, U-642, U-952 and U-969 sunk by Army aircraft, Toulon,
     France.

Foreign Affairs
---------------
Hitler Pledges To Finish Fight - Berlin says that Hitler addressed Nazi Party
     leaders on August 4th and pledged "a fight to the finish with confidence
     in victory." He is also quoted as saying the July 20th bomb plot was the
     work of "a criminal clique limited in numbers but important in influence"
     and that "I believe I am necessary to the nation which needs a man who
     will under no circumstances capitulate."

Regugee Ship Sinks - Ankara reports that the Turkish steamer Mefkure, carrying
     240 Jewish refugees from Constnta, Rumania to Turkey was torpedoed in the
     Black Sea with loss of all by four of the passengers.

The Homefront
-------------
Philadelphia Strikers Return - Transit service has been restored in
     Philadelphia as most of the 6,000 striking transit workers have returned
     to work after Maj. Gen. Philip Hayes yesterday orderd the arrest of the
     leaders of the unauthorized walkout under provisions of the
     Smith-Connally anti-strike act.

Troop Carrier Launched - The 20,000 ton troopship Gen. W.P. Richardson, eighth
     of a series, has been launched at the Federal Shipyards of the U.S. Steel
     Corp. in Kearney, N.J.

Mathematical Robot - Harvard University has disclosed that Commander Howard S.
     Aiken, USNR, associate professor of applied mathematics in collaboration
     with the Internation Business Machines Corp. has developed an automatic
     calculator capable of solving any mathematical problem. The machine, six
     years in development, will be presented to Harvard by IBM but for the
     war's duration will be used by the Navy.

Best Selling Books - "Strange Fruit" by Lillian Smith, "The Razor's Edge" by
     W. Somerset Maugham, "The Robe" by Lloyd C. Douglas, "A Tree Grows In
     Brooklyn" by Betty Smith.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  (jbd@netcom.com/jbd@osbm.state.nc.us)
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 10:16:00 PDT
From:    Julie Jenkins <ECZ5JXJ@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
Subject: Pogroms in Poland

This may bore everyone else, but I think Lou should reconsider distinguishing
between "indigenous" people in Eastern Europe and Jews.  Last time I checked
people who lived there who happened to be Jewish were just as indigenous as any
one else.  Groups had been moving in and out for 1500 yrs by the 1940s.  In my
own posting I felt terrible about falling into the trap of talking about Jewish
and Polish writers--especially after I read Tadeus Konwicki and realised how
close in tone he is Isaac Bashevis Singer, Konwicki is modern Catholic/Agnostic
who-knows-what, post war and Singer is Singer, but they're both Polish.

I think fixing on the NKVD sounds pretty unneccessary.  Jewish escapees from
the roundups who made it to the forest had to be very careful which partisan
groups they connected with.  Home Army groups killed Jews right along w/Germans
--Jewish escapees could really only trust themselves and formed stricly Jewish
partisan groups for safety's sake.

There's a very interesting run down on present day Hungarian politics in the
most recent NY Review of Books, the Aug. 11 issue.  This article also describes
the status of the largest extant Jewish community left in Eastern Europe--100,
000 whole people who have a Jewish parent in their background, which 50 years
ago this August was all it needed.  This is the month that the Hungarian Jews
started to arrive in Auschwitz, selections to make space had been going on all
summer.  This is the month when the machine was working at peak efficiency--dou
ble digits in the thousands per day.  Julie

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 13:41:04 -0400
From:    "Mr. Scott Hannon" <hannon@UMBC.EDU>
Subject: Re: GEN:83rd CMB

>WHAT WAS THE MAIN FUNCTION OF A [Chemical Mortar Battalion], AND DOES
>ANYONE HAVE MORE INFO IN THE 83RD CMB, AND/OR BOOKS ON THE SUBJECT ?

Chemical Mortar Battalions were independent heavy (4.2" I think) mortar
battalions which, in practice, were used as fire support in a manner
similar to artillery. Due to their much shorter range, they had to
deploy closer to the front than artillery, but otherwise they seem to
have done much the same job. I think there were only a dozen or so of
these mortar bns active in combat in the ETO...many with Dever's
6th Army Group in the south (instead of extra artillery).

One of the US Army in WW2 "Green" series books covers the Chemical
Corps. And as very little chemical warfare occured in WW2, a fair
amount of this book is devoted to these mortar bns...about the only
Chemical units in combat.

I think one or more Chem Mortar bn unit histories were published soon
after the war, but I'm not certain. As for something easily available,
apart from the "green" book mentioned above there probably isn't much.
Perhaps there is a 83rd CMB veterans group...I wouldn't be surprised.

Scott.
Scott Hannon, Fri Aug 5 1994 (hannon@umbc.edu)

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 13:10:13 -0500
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <mslrc@UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: Jews, Poles -- and Soviets

I should have added that the most popular fellow in the Kozielsk
  internment camp -- most of whose members ended up mass-tombed
  at Katyn -- was the Chief Rabbi of the Polish Army.  Apparently,
  he had a tremendous sense of humor and helped keep up everyone's
  spirits.

He was taken away by the NKVD well before the extermination
  shipments began.

You see, Julie, the Soviets were trying to drive a wedge between
  the Christian and Jewish Poles.  Alter and Ehrlich -- the two
  Jewish socialist labor activists of the "Bund" -- were executed
  openly by the Soviets just before the April 1943 German
  revelation of the Katyn discovery.

Apparently, their mortal offense was working loyally with the
  Polish Government-in-Exile in London.  The Soviets didn't want
  Polish Jews to be Polish.

The Soviets were very skilled at exterminating national/ethnic
  identities.  Bob Conquest's book, STALIN:  BREAKER OF NATIONS,
  is aptly titled.

The Soviets could play the Jews, Ukrainians, and Poles off
  against each other as skillfully as the Nazis.

As to the Home Army exterminating Jews on sight, I find that
  dubious, considering how a Home Army unit was fighting to
  break into the Warsaw Ghetto to support the Jews.  (MAYbe in
  the countryside it was different, with more peasants and
  prejudice?)

Incidentally, there is a little 16-page book available from
  Yeshiva Univ. on the (utterly loyal) Polish-Jewish officers
  who died at Katyn.  I strongly recommend it.

Lou Coatney

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 14:31:05 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: INF: Thompsons for sale

I'm not sure how many of you are aware of this, so here goes,...

Ohio Ordinance Works, Inc.   (216) 285-3481

... is selling Thompsons with dummy receivers for $225.00 This is
the M1A1 with the side bolt and the front blade sight. They also sell
the "dummied" 1928A1 with the top bolt. They've got other stuff too:
M2 50 cals. (expensive), MP40's, Sten guns,... etc...

I ran across this in Shotgun News.

Here's one: British "Ferrit" Armors Car completely restored (with grenade
launchers, etc) $12,000  (sounds like what I need for the friday commute!)

;-)  Have a day! -Al

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Wild, LAN Mgr.  Father of 1.8815          Voice:          (401) 792-2611
ACC - Lippitt - URI  American Legion Post 102. FAX:            (401) 792-5479
Kingston, RI  02881  NRA Life Member           BITNET:           AWild@URIACC
                                               Internet: AWild@URIACC.URI.EDU

"Duties and responsibilities were woven into the fabric of pre-D-Day living.
It was a self-disciplined, free society that those troops cherished, and they
fought a war for it.

The Woodstock celebrants won a cultural war eliminating both the standards
of, and the respect for, self-discipline.

The spoils of that victory are numerous and devastating.
                                                          -John A. Howard
                                                           Rockford Institute
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 16:47:15 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <dan.ford@UNH.EDU>
Subject: Sergeant-pilots

I just re-read the chapters of *Yeager* about his Air Corps
service. He enlisted to train as a "Flying Sergeant." By the time
he got his wings in March 1943, however, the classification had
been abolished and the enlisted cadets became "non-commissioned
flight officers, wearing blue bars instead of gold." I gather
from earlier posts that that was equivalent to warrant officer.
Yeager went to Britain in 1944 and in the summer of 1944 was
commissioned as a 2nd Lt. Was that the end of the "flight
officer" rank?

In the navy, VF 2 in Dec 1941 had 6 officers and 16 enlisted men
who held the general rating of NAP (naval aviation pilot--an odd
combination of words when you think about them). "Fighting Two"
was organized as a petty officer squadron in 1927 but apparently
never fought as such, for its personnel were dispersed to other
squadrons before it went into combat. At that time, the CPOs were
commissioned as Lt JG (a nice jump, skipping ensign!) while most
of the others became warrant officers. Their average age was
about 30.

So it would seem that there were no, or virtually no, sergeant-
pilots in U.S. service during the combat years of WWII.

The Japanese navy, by contrast, kept the grade to the end, and I
think non-commissioned pilots outnumbered the officers. Indeed,
the most famous Zero pilot (famous in the U.S., anyhow) was CPO
Saburo Sakai. In the army, some sergeant-pilots with combat
experience in China were commissioned just before the move south
in December 1941.

Sydney, did the RAF have sergeant-pilots to the end of the war?

- dan

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 16:47:11 -0500
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <mslrc@UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: MODELS:  Progress.  :-)

I am just about to finish the HOBART/PERTH/SYDNEY class of
  Australian light cruiser.

I did the prototype at 1:600 -- 50 ft. per inch.  There was that
  moment of doubt, and then! ....  It all came together.

I'm about to finish the TROMP, and I only got started.  Of
  course, I *have* been putting in 20-hour days -- and *this*
  is "pre-RETIREMENT"?!

I'm going to do and take a 1:720 PERTH (and HOUSTON and
  MOGAMI and MIKUMA and ...) with me to GenCon.  After the
  1:1200 Mers El Kebir on Sunday, ... :-)

SYDNEY was a clean design, and it makes a beautiful model.
  It is something to watch it grow from the (waterline) keel
  up ... and sail off to war(games).

Lou Coatney, Naval (Model) Architect at Large  :-)

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Aug 1994 22:11:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 6 AUG 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SUNDAY, 6 AUGUST 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 6 B-25s bomb the town area of
Mohnyin while 2 others destroy a bridge at Hsenwi; 21 P-51s hit 4 railroad
bridges in the Naba-Pinbaw area, destroying 2 of them; P-51s and P-47s hit
numerous targets of opportunity at Mohnyin, Hopin, Bhamo, Myothit, Katha,
Indaw, and other points in N Burma; and a few P-40s strafe targets of
opportunity in the Myitkyina area.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 28 P-40s again pound Tengchung; 47
P-40s and P-51s hit trucks, troop compounds, and gun positions in the
Hengyang area; 19 P-40s attack sampans and trucks around Changsha; 20 others
hit supplies, trucks, barracks, and targets of opportunity at Chefang and
Mangshih, between Changsha and Hengyang, and between Siangyin and Siangtan.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 524: 1,186 bombers and
740 fighters are dispatched to attack oil refineries, aircraft, ordnance and
other factories in Germany and V-weapon sites in France; 24 bombers and 8
fighters are lost:
  1. Of 414 B-17s, 126 hit Brandenburg assembly plants, 74 hit Genshagen, 69
hit Brandenburg munitions industry, 12 hit Stendal Airfield and 8 hit targets
of opportunity; they claim 0-0-3 Luftwaffe aircraft; 11 B-17s are lost and
106 damaged; 1 airman is KIA, 4 WIA and 105 MIA. Escort is provided by 168 of
195 P-51s; they claim 19-0-2 aircraft; 2 P-51s are lost and 1 damaged beyond
repair; 1 pilot is KIA and 2 MIA.
  2. Of 154 B-17s, 83 hit Berlin aircraft engine factories, 45 hit Berlin
diesel factories, 7 hit targets of opportunity and 4 hit Nordholz Airfield;
they claim 0-2-3 aircraft; 5 B-17s are lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 103
damaged; 1 airman is KIA, 6 WIA and 45 MIA. Escort is provided by 107 of 144
P-51s; they claim 4-0-0 aircraft in the air and 2-0-4 on the ground; 1 P-51
is lost and 3 damaged; 1 pilot is WIA and 1 MIA.
  3. In an Operation FRANTIC mission, 75 of 78 B-17s hit Gdynia/Rahmel
aircraft factories in Poland and proceeds to bases in the USSR; they claim
0-2-2 aircraft; 23 B-17s are damaged. Escort is provided by 154 of 160 P-51s;
they claim 7-2-3 aircraft; 4 P-51s are lost and 1 is damaged beyond repair; 1
pilot is KIA and 5 MIA.
  4. Of 445 B-24s, 72 hit Hamburg/Schulau oil refinery, 62 hit Hamburg/
Rhenania-Ossag oil refinery, 61 hit Hamburg/Rhenania oil refinery, 58 hit
Kiel naval installation, 54 hit Hamburg/Deutsche oil refinery, 33 hit
Hamburg/Eband oil refinery, 32 hit Hamburg/Schlieman oil refinery, 23 hit
Hemmingstedt and 4 hit targets of opportunity; 8 B-24s are lost, 3 damaged
beyond repair and 290 damaged; 13 airmen are KIA, 16 WIA and 83 MIA. Escort
is provided by 196 P-38s and P-47s; they claim 1-0-2 aircraft; 1 P-47 is lost
(pilot is MIA).
  5. 24 of 91 B-24s hit 2 V-weapon sites in the Pas de Calais area; 9 B-24s
are damaged. Escort is provided by 24 P-47s.
  Mission 526: 7 of 7 B-17s drop leaflets in France during the night.
  36 B-24s fly CARPETBAGGER missions in France; 1 B-24 is MIA.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In France, A-20s and B-26s hit
bridges, fuel and ammunition dumps, and a locomotive depot at Beauvais,
Beaumont-sur-Sarthe, Courtalain, Foret de Perseigne, and Blois; fighters
escort IX Bomber Command and furnish cover to ground troops in the Vire,
Rennes, and Redon areas; HQ 474th Fighter Group and 428th, 429th and 430th
Fighter Squadrons move from Moreton, England to Neuilly with P-38s; a
detachment of the 112th Liaison Squadron, Ninth Air Force, based at Heston,
England begins operating from Valognes with L-5s; and the 153d Liaison
Squadron, IX Tactical Air Command, moves from Vouilly to Canisy with L-5s. In
England, the 90th Troop Carrier Squadron, 438th Troop Carrier Group, based at
Greenham Common, begins operating from Welford Park with C-47s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 60 fighters take off from
Operation FRANTIC bases in the USSR, attack Craiova marshalling yard and
other railroad targets in the Bucharest-Ploesti, Rumania area, and land at
Italian bases. Close to 700 B-17s and B-24s, operating against targets in SE
France, attack oil storage at Le Pouzin, Le Pontet, and Lyon, railroad
bridges at Le Pouzin, Avignon, Tarascon, Rambert, and Givors, marshalling
yards at Portes-les-Valences and Miramas, and submarine pens at Toulon; 43
P-38s dive-bomb airfields at Orange/Plan de Dieu, and Valence; P-38s and
P-51s fly about 200 sorties in support of bombing missions.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): Medium bombers strike bridges in
SE France in the Rhone Valley and areas to the E, in or near Tarascon and
Arles, and alone the Var River; fighter-bombers enjoy a successful day
against targets in NW Italy and SE France, including bridges, railroad lines,
motor transport, trains, roads, airfields, and town areas, plus shipping at
Imperia, Genoa, and La Spezia, Italy.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-25s from Saipan Island strike
Guam Island twice; B-25s flying out of the Marshall Islands hit Ponape
Island, and others from the Gilbert Islands hit Nauru Island, Gilbert
Islands; and B-24s from Kwajalein Atoll bomb Wotje Atoll, Marshall Islands.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: The Yap Island
supply area is bombed by B-24s; heavy frontal weather activities over the
Vogelkop Peninsula and the Moluccas Islands cancels strikes in that area.
In New Guinea, B-25s and fighters, though restricted by the weather, support
ground operations near Sarmi, hit gun positions at Dagua, and strafe fuel
dumps and targets of opportunity at Cape Djeruen; the 100th Bombardment
Squadron (Medium), Thirteenth Air Force [attached to 42d Bombardment Group
(Medium)] based on Stirling Island with B-25s, begins operating from
Hollandia.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

06/0213Z AUG

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 4 Aug 1994 to 5 Aug 1994
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 6 messages totalling 458 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. GEN: RECOLLECTIONS OF WAR IN BELGIUM NO. 1
  2. GEN: RECOLLECTIONS OF THE WAR IN BELGIUM NO. 2
  3. INF: USN Chronology 08-06-94
  4. INF: 50 Years Ago - 07-AUG-1944
  5. Jews in Poland
  6. [INF] USAAF 7 AUG 44

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 6 Aug 1994 18:02:27 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <John.Ausland@GMAIL.GAR.NO>
Subject: GEN: RECOLLECTIONS OF WAR IN BELGIUM NO. 1

  August 6, 1994

  Philippe Watelet, a Belgian, is sending a series of message to the Military
Forum on CIS, which I think may interest the users of this list.  The following
is the first of these:


#: 260086 S4/WWII/Commemorative  [MILITARY]
    04-Aug-94  19:01:11
Sb: #WWII recollections
Fm: Philippe Watelet 100041,3346
To: all

From: Philippe Watelet, 100041,3346

Date: Thu, Aug 4, 1994, 6:54
Subject: WWII recollections/1

In the following days, I would like to contribute to this Forum by sharing a
few recollections of a typical Belgian family relating events of WWII. While
there may be little historical value in these recollections, they do represent
experiences of many Belgian families in occupied Belgium as seen through the
eyes of a boy who was only 10 years old when our city was liberated by the US
Army.
The subjects of these recollections will be:
[1] The War begins, we flee but then return home,
[2] The resistance in our city,
[3] Food, gas and coal: the Belgian "Home Front",
[4] Local arrests,
[5] My father taken hostage,
[6] the Air War reaches our city: we are bombed
[7] Liberation at last.

I start to day with the first subject: the War begins, we flee and then return
home.
My first recollection goes back to early 1940 before the nazi invasion of
Belgium. My father was a doctor in ophtalmology and he was ordered to rejoin a
medical military Unit in Gent. I was sitting in the staircase and he was there
in the hall in uniform. My mother was crying softly. I remember the feeling
that something serious was happening but I could not really understand. For
me, in his military uniform, it seemed that my father was great! And then he
said good bye to all of us and left. At that time, I had 3 brothers and I was
5 years old.

He has instructed my mother to leave our home with her sons for France if the
war really started. This advice was based on their experience of the previous
war WWI , some 25 years before. At that time, my father had just started his
medical studies but he went as a simple volunteer soldier in the  belgian
infantry for 4 years. The germans in WWI were brutal with the civilians. They
had put cities and villages on fire in several place in Belgium. Since now it
was again the germans who were threatening our country, many people were
thinking that the nazis would most probably behave according to the same
pattern. Therefore the best way to avoid the brutality and the possible
killing was to flee away, if possible.

So, one day, we left La Louviere in our car: my mother, her 4 sons and some
luggages on the top of the car attached with belts and strings. I do not
remember how many Kms she drove but, still in Belgium, some luggages falled
down from the top of the car on the road. Some repair work done, we continued.
The road was rather crowded with civilians in some parts of it. But once again
some luggages falled down and then my mother said " I think we stop here and
we are going back home". So we did, she drove us back home. She certainly took
the right decision. We learnt later from people who went to France that  enemy
aircrafts were sometimes gunning the roads full of military convoys mixed with
civilians. Some or many were wounded or killed. It was really a confused
situation for me and for my brothers. We could not understand this whole
situation, we were too young.

 When I talked recently to my mother, I asked her why she took that decision.
She said that she had the real feeling that she left La Louviere too late and
that she heard friends saying that the german tanks were quite fast in their
offensive and she was afraid to be in a combat area. She also said that an
german aicraft has been flying very low above the road ( I have no memory of
that but I trust her) and she was sure to be safer in our home than somewhere
on the roads to France. So we were back in our house and my brothers and I
were quite happy to see and play with our toys left behind.

Then the Germans arrived and our city of La Louviere was occupied by the
werhmacht. No school any more for a few weeks. For us it was fun. But we had
no news from our father. Several weeks later he came back. His Unit went to
Gent, Ostende, Dunkerque and finally the orders were to go to Nantes in France
but it never made it. The nazis first line troops were indeed quite fast and
one day his Unit was found almost surrounded in the north of France. The
germans were victorious and since a medical Unit did not have arms they could
not care less about prisonners. They simply wanted to go on and on. A german
officer ordered the belgian major in charge of the medical Unit to wait there
for the second line troops which would then organise the transfer into a POW
camp. Then several members of the Unit including my father decided wait until
dark late in the evening and to run away through the fields, sleeping during
the day and walking during the night. By doing so and avoiding any
concentration of enemy troops, he came back home exhausted but alive. Our
family was re-united. The local administration was in a sort of chaos and it
was never asked how and why my father was back, the belgiam city employees
were not ready to inform the nazis about the names of persons who did escaped
from their hands.

Life would continue in the occupied Belgium. I will continue about that in
another message. Philippe Watelet.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 6 Aug 1994 18:05:48 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <John.Ausland@GMAIL.GAR.NO>
Subject: GEN: RECOLLECTIONS OF THE WAR IN BELGIUM NO. 2

  Oslo, July 6, 1994

  This is the second of Philippe Watelet's recollections of the war in Belgium:


#: 260449 S4/WWII/Commemorative  [MILITARY]
    05-Aug-94  23:24:21
Sb: WWII recollections
Fm: Philippe Watelet 100041,3346
To: All

From: Philippe Watelet, 100041,3346
To: All
Topic: WWII recollections

Date: Fri, Aug 6, 1994, 18:38:14


Subject: WWII recollections/2: the resistance in our city.

In this second story on some recollections of a belgian family during the
WWII, I will say a few word on the local resistance in our city. As I said in
the 1st story, there is no historical value in these recollections of WWII.
They simply are memories of a belgian family in occupied Belgium as seen
through the eyes of a boy of 5/10 years old during that war.

 There was local resistance in the area of La Louviere, building up from 1942
to 1944-45. There were two organizations. One called "secret Army" recruited
its members mainly from former reserve Officers and soldiers who did escape in
the early days of the war from being POW's. They had no political ambition.
They wanted to fight the enemy and were in contact with London for
instructions on sabotages to be made. The other organization called FI for
Front de l'Independance if I do remember correctly was more of a political
nature. They wanted also to fight the nazi's with the same courage and, in
addition, had the ambition of preparing the new public administration if the
war was eventually won.

I remember that my father although he was not a regular resistant himself was
sometimes in contact with friends in the Secret Army. One day he was asked if
he would help them in a coup. They got the information that there was an
important Gestapo meeting in Mons (+/- 25 Kms from La Louviere). The Gestapo
Officer (the Nazis'secret police) reponsible of the La Louviere area would be
attending the meeting. In particular, they thought that the Officer would most
probably be accompanied by a belgian collaborator who was a traitor hated by
the local population. His name was Duquesne. He and the Gestapo Officer would
come back late in the evening or at night from Mons to La Louviere and would
use an official german car. On his way back to La Louviere, they would have to
cross a bridge above a canal (Canal du Centre) where a party of resistants
would fire at the car in order to kill both men. Since he was a doctor, they
asked my father if he could take care of any member of the resistance team if
the fight would result with wounded men. They also thought that the car would
be followed by another car with SS soldiers for protection and were prepared
for a small but serious fight.

So he went that evening to a small house just near the bridge according to the
intructions and with what was needed for such circumstances. He then organized
a room for possible casualties. A resistant and my father were waiting there
for several hours in a tense atmosphere listening for the expected noise of
the fight. But nothing happened until 4/5 in the morning. The resistants then
decided to leave the bridge while it was still dark. They  thought that the
Gestapo's car took probably another but longer road to La Louviere or worst
that the Gestapo might have been informed in advance about the danger of an
attack near the bridge. They were not sure. But my father learnt later that
both men remained that night in Mons and came back to La Louviere the day
after.

In the next message, in a few days, I will say a few words on how was the
every day life during that period ,in particular, on the difficulty, to find
the food. This could be called the "belgian home front".  Philippe Watelet

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 6 Aug 1994 04:41:18 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 08-06-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
08/06 Sun. Carrier BENNINGTON (CV-20) is commissioned at New York, N. Y
            German submarines sunk:
             U-471, U-642, U-952, and U-969, by Army aircraft, Toulon,
              France.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 6 Aug 1994 07:00:50 -0700
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 07-AUG-1944

On 07-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The Germans open up a counter-offensive in the Avranches area.
     German tanks penetrate into the American positions between the VII Corps
     and XIX Corps (1st Army), recapturing Mortain and reach Le Mesnil-Tove
     where they are halted with assistance from Allied aircraft. The VII and
     XIX Corps prepare to counter-attack. The 6th Armoured Division (VIII
     Corps, 3rd Army) reach Brest in the evening. The 83rd Division continues
     the battle for St Malo. On the south coast, the 4th Armoured Division
     attacks Lorient. The Canadian II Corps launches an offensive south of
     Caen, towards Falaise.

Eastern Front - The Russians are being contained by the Germans almost
     everywhere. The Russians suspend their summer offensive for a while after
     advancing nearly 450 mile so as to reorganize their over-stretched supply
     lines.

Marianas - On Guam, the 3rd Marine Division, the 77th Infantry Division and
     the 1st Marine Brigade, launch a strong attack against Yigo and Mount
     Santa Rosa. They are able to take Yigo but their advance to the peak of
     Mount Santa Rosa is slowed by fierce Japanese resistance. The Japanese
     counter-attack during the night but are driven back.

New Guinea - On Biak Island, the US 162nd Regiment advances along the track
     from Sorido to Korim Bay to link up with the 163rd Regiment.

Foreign Affairs
---------------
De Gaulle Asks French To Rise - Gen. Charles de Gaulle has broadcast an appeal
     from Angiers to all citizens in France to harass the Germans by fighting
     and sabotage and promises "a battle-hardened and well-equipped French
     Army will soon by fighting on French soil."

The Homefront
-------------
Penicillin Cures Gonorrhea Quickly - The U.S. Public Health Service says
     gonorrhea can be cured in seven and a half hours with penicillin.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  (jbd@netcom.com/jbd@osbm.state.nc.us)
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 6 Aug 1994 10:52:00 PDT
From:    Julie Jenkins <ECZ5JXJ@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
Subject: Jews in Poland

Lou--the operative word is unit.  One unit here and there does not inspire con-
fidence.  If one must know in advance the safe units, why bother?  why not just
make up 100% trustworthy units--other escaping Jews.  Some HA units allowed
Jews, others killed Jews, do you want to risk choosing the wrong unit after
 you've just escaped?  It's not dubious, look at the expert testimony--survi-
vors.         .

As for the Soviets, of course they played on what was already there.  They're
trying to destablize a country and that country is an accident waiting to  hap-
pen.  Poland was notorious for being its own worst enemy.  The aristos come out
in 1863 but can't get the peasantry involved.  In 1919, Poland decides to in-
vade Russia and reclaim the old Grand Dutchy.  All the conflicts of the 30s:
urban vs. peasant; white collar vs. blue collar; academics vs. workers; aristos
vs. peasants are unresolved in '45 and the Soviets play every one.  While HA
units decide that it's better to fight a low key civil war against other Poles
than try  to unite against a common enemy in '46-47.  Only when self-con-
sciously do intellectuals & workers decide to work together in the late '70s
does anything start to happen.  And then in '89 /90 they break down again and
reading the news from '90 and '91 one wondered isPoland going to do it to her-
self again and then write more songs and poems about Poland's tragic fate?
The Catholic/Jewish split was one among many and one of the biggies.


But I don't think it can be suggested that being an urban Jew helped one to
survive unless you mean that by
being urban (= assimilated, by definition) one had a stronger
chance of getting out of Poland before the deluge, because one is perhaps more
hip to German intentions.  But that would mean that one would have been con-
vinced at the time, say, 1938 on, that Germany definitely intends to go to war
and that one must "quit Europe" to paraphrase the Indians.  Once the Germans
arrive, any Jew in Poland is in deep trouble, because the partition of the
country is instantaneous and suddenly passports are meaningless, one can't
"leave" one can only escape.  Then come the roundups, which are very efficient
whether urban or country--since everyone has ID cards & birth certificates.
Over and over, those who survived did so from a combination of circumstances
unique to that individual--friends, looks, language, where they were when,
presence of mind, luck.  Not even youth helped--Ann Frank dies of a disease,
w/out reaching Poland, her father goes the distance & survives.

Once the Germans arrive, any Pole is in deep trouble, period but Jewish Poles
are really in for it.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 6 Aug 1994 21:32:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 7 AUG 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
MONDAY, 7 AUGUST 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  F-7, Consolidated Liberator
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, B-25s destroy 2 bridges, damage 2
others, and hit targets of opportunity in areas around Naba and Mawhun;
fighter-bombers attack Mohnyin, Myothit, and Pinbaw, hit a motor pool at
Namana, damage 2 bridges S of Bhamo, and attack targets of opportunity during
sweeps of Onbauk Airfield and the town of Bhamo; fighter-bombers also support
ground forces in the Taungni area.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 37 P-40s hit Hengyang and trucks,
troops, and gun positions in the surrounding area; 21 P-40s bomb Changsha, 4
hit rivercraft at Siangsiang, 4 bomb the wall at Tengchung, and 6 attack
Hsiaoshuipu.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 4 missions are flown:
  Mission 527: 905 bombers and 471 fighters are dispatched to hit fuel dumps
and bridges in France but heavy cloud cover forces many aircraft to return
with bombs and other formations to be recalled; 1 bomber and 5 fighters are
lost; targets hit (number in parenthesis indicates bombers bombing) are:
  1. Of 112 B-17s, 71 hit Montbartier and 34 hit St Loubes; 1 B-17 is
damaged beyond repair and 26 are damaged; 2 airmen are WIA. Escort is
provided by 123 of 139 P-51s; they claim 1-0-3 Luftwaffe aircraft in the air
and 0-0-1 on the ground.
  2. The primary targets of 224 B-17s are Nanteuil Bridge (36), Sens (26), St
Florentin (25), Dueny (24), Bourron Marlotte (23) and Paris-St Quen (12);
other targets hit are Chartres Airfield (23), Maintenon Bridge (23), Houden
marshalling yard (14), Chateaudun Airfield (11) and Rouglaf (1); 1 B-17 is
damaged beyond repair and 80 damaged. Escort is provided by 96 of 97 P-51s.
  3. 1 of 182 B-17s hits Montdidier Airfield; 35 B-17s are damaged; 1 airman
is WIA. Escort is provided by 90 P-38s and P-51s.
  4. Of 51 B-24s, 10 hit Andenne Bridge, 8 hit Semuse and 8 hit targets of
opportunity; 1 B-24 is lost and 19 damaged; 11 airmen are MIA. Escort is
provided by 34 of 35 P-47s.
  5. The primary targets of 333 B-24s are Doullens Bridge (37), Saleux (24),
Recques-sur-Course (23), Frevent Bridge (15), Rieme/Ertveld (11) and
Langerbrugge (9); 12 also hit a factory near Wendelghem and 1 hits a target
of opportunity; 1 B-24 is damaged beyond repair and 45 damaged; 8 airmen are
KIA and 1 WIA. Escort is provided by 94 of 100 P-51s.
  Mission 528: 1 of 3 B-17s flies a Mico H test mission (Micro H was a radar
system which combined the Gee-H and H2X radar functionality for use by
pathfinders).
  Mission 529: 271 P-47s and P-51s fly fighter-bomber missions to marshalling
yards and railroads N and E of Paris; they claim 4-0-1 aircraft on the
ground; 3 P-47s and 2 P-51s are lost and 11 P-47s damaged; 5 pilots are MIA.
And, 5 of 5 B-17s fly a leaflet mission over France during the night.
  In the USSR, a shuttle mission is flown in accordance with a Soviet request;
55 B-17s and 29 P-51s attack an oil refinery at Trzebina, Poland without
loss; the aircraft return to Operation FRANTIC bases in the USSR.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): To maintain close association with
ground forces, HQ IX Tactical Air Command and HQ XIX Tactical Air Command
constitute mobile units to accompany Advance HQ of the US First and Third
Armies, respectively, as they advance rapidly to the E; Lieutenant General
Lewis H Brereton relinquishes command of the Ninth Air Force to become
Commanding General First Allied Airborne Army.
  In France, 380+ A-20s and B-26s bomb bridges at Nogent-sur-Seine and Neuvy-
sur-Loire; fighters escort IX Bomber Command aircraft, furnish defensive
cover in the Vire, Laval, and Rennes areas, and support ground forces in the
assault area; HQ 71st Fighter Wing moves from St-Pierre-Eglise to
Ecrammeville; and the 14th Liaison Squadron, XIX Tactical Air Command, moves
from Beauchamps to Poilley with L-5s. In England, the following squadrons
begin operating from Ramsbury with C-47s:
 - 93d Troop Carrier Squadron, 439th Troop Carrier Group, based at Upottery
 - 98th Troop Carrier Squadron, 440th Troop Carrier Group, based at Exeter
 - 301st Troop Carrier Squadron, 441st Troop Carrier Group, based at
     Merryfield
The 306th Troop Carrier Squadron, 442d Troop Carrier Group, based at Weston
Zoyland, begins operating from Ramsgate with C-47s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 353 B-17s and B-24s bomb 2
synthetic oil refineries at Blechhammer S (B-17s) and Blechhammer N (B-24s);
300+ fighters provide support; 76 B-24s hit Alibunar Airfield and Novi Sad
oil facilities, Yugoslavia; the bombers and fighters claim nearly 30
aircraft shot down.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, A-20s bomb shipping at
Genoa, Finale Ligure, and Alassio and Monaco, Monaco during the night of 6/7
Aug; during the day, B-25s and B-26s bomb bridges at Ventimiglia and Les
Censies, La Voulte-sur-Rhone, Livron, Avignon, and Pont-Saint-Esprit, France;
fighter-bombers hit rail and road bridges, marshalling yards at Alessandria
and Albenga, shipping at Imperia and Nice, and airfields in NW Italy and S
France.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): Saipan Island-based B-25s hit
Guam Island twice during the day.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s bomb power
plant, AA positions, and barracks area on Yap Island, a phosphate plant on Fais
Island, Caroline Islands, and airfields at Galela and Lolobata on Halmahera
Island, Moluccas Islands, where 35-50 aircraft are destroyed or damaged. In
New Guinea, the 20th Combat Mapping Squadron, 6th Photographic Reconnaissance
Group, based at Nadzab begins operating from Biak Island with F-7s; the 39th
Fighter Squadron, 35th Fighter Group, moves from Nadzab to Noemfoor Island
with P-47s; and the 390th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 42d Bombardment
Group (Medium), moves from the Russell Islands, Solomon Islands to Hollandia
with B-25s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

07/0134Z AUG

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 5 Aug 1994 to 6 Aug 1994
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 10 messages totalling 470 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. SERGEANT-PILOTS
  2. INF: USN Chronology 08-07-94
  3. INF: 50 Years Ago - 08-AUG-1944 (2)
  4. 50TH: GERMAN COUNTERATTACK ON MORTAIN
  5. Privateer (3)
  6. INF: Thompsons for sale
  7. [INF] USAAF 8 AUG 44

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 03:59:53 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <ben.frank@HIS.COM>
Subject: SERGEANT-PILOTS

I'm afraid that you are somewhat misinformed. The Marine Corps gave wings to
enlisted Marines who had gone through flight school and so in the pre-WWII era
we had NAPs also. Some flew all through the war. Most of those who were still
flying during the Korean War were "forced" to take commissions as 2dLts. The
Marine Corps now has no enlisted personnel flying, not even warrant officers
flying helicopters, even though the Army does have warrant officer chopper
pilots. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 01:36:56 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 08-07-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
08/07 Mon. Submarine SEAWOLF (SS-197) lands men and supplies at Tawi
           Tawi, P. I.
            Japanese naval vessels sunk:
             Light cruiser NAGARA, by submarine CROAKER (SS-246), west
              of Kyushu, Japan,
              32 d. 09'N., 129 d. 53'E.
             Frigate KURSAGAKI, by submarine GUITARRO (SS-363), Philip-
              pine Islands area,
              14 d. 51'N., 119 d. 59'E.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 04:46:22 -0700
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 08-AUG-1944

On 08-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The German garrison at Brest, in Brittany, rejects the
     surrender ultimatum from the US 6th Armoured Division. Heavy fighting
     continues around the outskirts of St Malo. The 79th Division (XV Corps)
     reaches and takes Le Mans; while units of the 5th Division advance
     towards Nantes and Angers. In the Avranches area, the German
     counter-offensive is still taking place. The Canadian II Corps does not
     succeed in reaching Falaise.

Eastern Front - The Polish resistance forces have now managed to seize control
     of most of Warsaw and have expanded their strength with captured German
     equipment. SS General Bach-Zelewski is appointed to lead the German
     forces charged with defeating the Poles. The units to be employed are
     mostly SS police and punishment battalions, all alike in their liking
     of cruel and violent methods.

Marianas - On Guam, organized resistance ceases. the 77th Infantry Division
     takes Mount Santa Rosa and the entire area is cleared of the Japanese.

China - The Japanese capture Hengyang. This is a prelude to the execution of
     the Ichi-Go plan, which will eventually lead to the capture of all US
     airfields in the southeast of China.

Naval Dispatches
----------------
US submarine SEAWOLF (SS-197) lands men and supplies on Palawan, P.I.

PT-509 sunk by naval gunfiler, off the Isle of Jersey, English Channel.

Foreign Affairs
---------------
Eight German Officers Hanged - The German radio has announced that eight
     German Army officers were hanged at noon today, two hours after a
     "people's tribunal" had found them guilty of treason in connection with
     the July 20th bomb plot against Hilter. Five other officers face similar
     trials.

The Homefront
-------------
Admiral Takes Life - Washington has announced that Rear Admiral Don Pardee
     Moon, 50, who commanded a task force in the Normandy invasion, committed
     suicide in Washington on August 5th apparently as a result of combat
     fatigue.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  (jbd@netcom.com/jbd@osbm.state.nc.us)
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 14:30:12 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <John.Ausland@GMAIL.GAR.NO>
Subject: 50TH: GERMAN COUNTERATTACK ON MORTAIN

  August 7, 1994

  The following describes events on the western front 50 years ago today:

Western Front - The Germans open up a counter-offensive in the Avranches area.
     German tanks penetrate into the American positions between the VII Corps
     and XIX Corps (1st Army), recapturing Mortain and reach Le Mesnil-Tove
     where they are halted with assistance from Allied aircraft. The VII and
     XIX Corps prepare to counter-attack. The 6th Armoured Division (VIII
     Corps, 3rd Army) reach Brest in the evening. The 83rd Division continues
     the battle for St Malo. On the south coast, the 4th Armoured Division
     attacks Lorient. The Canadian II Corps launches an offensive south of
     Caen, towards Falaise.

  The attack on Mortain found the infantry unit to which I was artillery liaison
officer in a rest area, not far from Mortain but far enough away not to be
directly affected by the German counterattack.  Here is an excerpt from my
LETTERS HOME about this final effort by Hitler to halt the sweep of Allied
forces across northern France.

  BEGIN EXCERPT

          Dear Folks, August 7, 1944, Somewhere in France

          Things are going quite well, and we all have high hopes
          of completing our job of destroying the German army in
          France in the near future. However, if they want, the
          German army can go on fighting for some time yet.

          Love, John

          This letter demonstrated how out of the action I was. On
          August 7, the Germans launched a counteroffensive in
          the area of Mortain. This town was about four miles from
          where I was, and one spearhead came within about a
          mile. Hitler had great ambitions for this attack. He told
          Field Marshall Gunther von Kluge to drive to the sea at
          Avranches and then throw the Allied forces out of France.
          Von Kluge had more limited hopes, which were to hold
          the Allied forces long enough to establish a new defensive
          line. Although the German units succeeded in capturing
          Mortain and moving somewhat further to the west, our
          forces soon brought the counteroffensive to a halt and
          threw it back. Shortly thereafter, Hitler, who suspected
          von Kluge of involvement in the July 20 plot, summoned
          him to Berlin. Instead of going, he wrote a letter to Hitler
          pleading with him to find a way out of the senseless war.
          On August 19, he killed himself.

          I am basing this on research, since I have absolutely no
          recollection of the attack on Mortain. This is all the more
          remarkable, since the 4th Division Artillery played a large
          role in halting the German attack, by destroying a
          German column of vehicles the afternoon of August 7. Also,
          the 12th Regiment was committed to support the 30th Division
          and took heavy casualties in intensive combat. The battalion
          I was with, however, was not involved in this fighting.

          A key reason for the defeat of this attack, as so much of
          what happened during the war, was that Allied commanders
          were following German military communications through the
          intercept program Ultra. Hence, the attack on Mortain came
          as no surprise.  END EXCERPT

  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 19:50:11 CDT
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Privateer

I wish I had known about this thread of discussion last week, because
Friday I visited the B-24 Liberator Museum at the Pueblo, CO airport.
There was a vet there who flew on the Privateer version.

The B-24 Museum is housed in a building at the Pueblo< CO airport,
located approx. 6 miles east of the town.  The airport was originally a
B-24 training base during WWII, and is depicted in a diorama of the
former post.  There are lots of aircraft models, a small number of
uniforms, and lots of display boards about the B-24.  There is a small
gift shop there, and there are usually a number of vets running around
trying to make you feel very welcome.

There is a large outdoor display area, to include a recently restored
B-29.  The entire interior was gutted and rebuild and is outstanding
from what I saw of it.  WWII aircraft are fairly limited, to include an
A-20, a C-47, and another WWII plane that name escapes me.  They have
more 50's era jets, including an A-4, an F-11, and an RF-5.  They are
presently reassembling an F-80 Shooting Star in the fenced area next to
the Museum.

I had to be cocky with the escort guy and ask him why they flew the
crates they shipped the B-17's over there in--after that he basically
left us alone to the museum.

If there are any Naval Aviators out there, and you have some extra brown
colored, leather soled shoes, they really need some help with their
shoes on the display models, please contact me off-line and I'll give
you their address.  I saw a couple pairs of loafers and other stuff that
just made me cringe!

I also visited a friend of mine who had a collection of 130+ uniforms,
of which about 80 are complete.  We looked over all *three* models of
German Luftwaffe aircrew parachutes, and then his pile of USAAF and RAF
chutes.  His chute collection was larger than my entire collection.  He
had a disassembled 37mm PAK in the garage, a Panzerschreck in the living
room, and a rangefinder in the kitchen.  Very impressive stuff.

TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 19:58:24 CDT
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: INF: Thompsons for sale

Two more things I forgot--I also went to the US goverment bookstore in
Pueblo, CO, which is located in the NORWEST Bank building downtown, and
they had copies of the green books available costing from $18-40.  I
picked about $20 worth of the German Army Lessons Learned series.  I
could have spent over a thousand there if I had wanted too.  The entire
greenbook series wasn't there--I looked for "Breakout and Pursuit" and
couldn;t find it.

Someone mentioned Thompsons are going for $225 or so repro non-firers.
A guy in CO is in the process of importing some OT-10A's, which are the
Czech version of the Sdkz 251.  The approx cost I heard (unaltered) was
$13,000 plus one very big stamp to mail it to the US.  The Czech's were
willing for another $3,000 to take in into the shop and WWIIize it (cut
off the top that seals it, and get rid of some of the smaller annoyances
that would need to be dealt with to WWIIize it.

TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 20:36:00 -0500
From:    GEORGE BAUER <BAUER@VAX1.ROCKHURST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Privateer

To Tim not Timothy:

The B-24 museum in Pueblo is in my opinion excellent.  My particular
interest was the model of the Hornet.  Airplanes are in pretty rugged
shape, though.

Too bad you had to leave a bad taste in my mouth with your need to
insult your hosts there.  Hopefully, you made up for it by giving a
sizable donation to the museum.


  =========================================================================
  | DR.  GEORGE R. BAUER             | INTERESTS:                         |
  |                                  | Computers in Business & Education. |
  | Recently returned from my second | Education:  Curriculum development.|
  |   extended stay in Prague.       |    International Education, TEFL.  |
  | Working on second book about     | Central Europe:  Post revolution   |
  |   Prague and new Czech Republic  |    economic, social, political     |
  |   and a book about the B-25      |    problems and opportunities.     |
  |   in WWII.                       | B-25 in WWII.                      |
  | E-Mail:                          | Free lance writing and editing.    |
  |   USA:  BAUER@RCKHRST1.BITNET    | Stamp collecting.                  |
  =========================================================================

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 21:39:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 8 AUG 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
TUESDAY, 8 AUGUST 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, B-25s are weathered out of their
primary target, the town of Shwekyina; the B-25s hit alternates, destroying
the Meza bridge and damaging 3 others, and bombing railroad tracks at several
points between Naba and Meza; weather severely curtails fighter-bomber
missions; and the detachment of the 315th Troop Carrier Squadron, 443d Troop
Carrier Group, operating from Shingbwiyang with C-47s returns to base at
Ledo, India.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 6 B-25s and 7 P-40s bomb a storage
area in Hengshan and destroy several trucks in the area; 29 P-40s hit gun
positions and targets of opportunity in the Hengyang vicinity; 14 P-51s and
P-40s hit bridge, trucks, and river craft at Siangtan while 8 blast trucks,
barges, and a compound between Siangtan and Hengyang; 12 P-40s attack river
shipping from Sinti to Hankow; 15 P-40s bomb storage areas and radio stations
at Amoy and Swatow.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Shuttle missions continue as 78
B-17s with 55 P-51s escort, leave bases in the USSR to hit airfields in
Rumania; 38 hit Bizau and 35 hit Zlistea; no Luftwaffe fighters are
encountered during the mission and the force flies to Italy.
  Mission 530: 414 B-24s and 265 fighters are dispatched to attack airfields
and V-weapon sites in France; 115 hit V-weapons sites in the Pas de Calais;
91 hit Clastres Airfield, 53 hit Romilly air depot, 50 hit La Perthe
Airfield, 12 hit Laon/Athies Airfield, 14 hit railroad bridges, 13 hit
targets of opportunity and 11 hit Bretigny Airfield; 1 B-24 is lost, 1 is
damaged beyond repair and 139 are damaged; 11 airmen are KIA, 9 WIA and 9
MIA. Escort is provided by 265 P-47s and P-51s; 2 P-51s are lost (pilots are
MIA).
  Mission 531: 681 B-17s and 100 P-51s are dispatched to bomb enemy troop
concentrations and strongpoints S of Caen; 25 Canadian soldiers are killed and
131 wounded by short bombing; 231 hit Cauvincourt, 99 hit Bretteville-sur-
Laise strongpoint, 99 hit St Sylvain strong point, 67 hit targets of
opportunity and 1 hits Gouvix strongpoint; they claim 1-0-0 Luftwaffe
aircraft; 7 B-17s are lost, 4 damaged beyond repair and 294 damaged; 8 airmen
are KIA, 15 WIA and 35 MIA. Escort is provided by 91 of 100 P-51s; they claim
4-1-6 aircraft; 3 P-51s are lost (pilots are MIA).
  41 of 50 P-51s escort RAF Coastal Command Beaufighters on a convoy strike
in Norway; 3 P-51s are lost and 3 damaged; 1 pilot is WIA and 3 MIA.
  175 P-38s, P-47s and P-51s fly a fighter-bomber mission against the
railroad N and W of Dijon; 2 P-47s and 2 P-51s are lost; 1 P-38, 1 P-47 and 1
P-51 are lost; 5 airmen are MIA.
  Mission 532: 5 of 5 B-17s drop leaflets in France during the night.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): Lieutenant General Hoyt S Vandenberg
assumes command of the Ninth Air Force.
  In France, 406 B-26s and A-20s bomb a rail embankment and bridges at 8
locations in N and W France, attack radar installations between Argentan and
Alencon, and give tactical support to ground forces near Saint-Malo; fighters
escort IX Bomber Command aircraft, give defensive air cover, and fly armed
reconnaissance E of Paris and in the battle area; and HQ 100th Fighter Wing
moves from St-Pierre-Eglise to Rennes.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Bad weather limits operations
to reconnaissance missions.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, medium bombers attack
targets in Po Valley and Rhone Valley in France, hitting bridges and railroad
tracks in or near Alessandria, and Avignon, Pont-Saint-Esprit, and along the
Var River in France; A-20s hit a storage dump and the nearby town of
Savigliano; fighter-bombers hit a barge in San Stefano al Mare harbor and
pontoon and railroad bridges nearby, and attack the Mantua causeway and
nearby bridges, scoring many hits and destroying several vehicles.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): Saipan Island-based B-25s bomb
Guam Island where effective resistance ends. B-25s from the Marshall Islands
hit Ponape Island while B-24s bomb Truk Atoll.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s bomb Yap
Island and Gagil-Tomil Island, Caroline Islands, concentrating on airstrips,
and airfields at Galela and Lolobata on Halmahera Island. In New Guinea,
B-24s hit Babo Airfield and the towns of Urarom and Manokwari; A-20s bomb a
radio station near Hollandia and hit troop concentrations in the Musu area;
fighter-bombers bomb bridges and buildings at Boram, troops at But, and guns
at Dagua; and HQ 71st Tactical Reconnaissance Group moves from Nadzab to Biak
Island.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

08/0141Z AUG

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 19:06:50 -0700
From:    Ed Kettler <deradler@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Privateer

Tim,

I seem to recall that the US Forest Service in CO was flying a Privateer
as late as five years ago out of Jefferson County airport NW of Denver.
I was wondering if it was still flying.

Ed Kettler                                       deradler@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 22:04:22 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Re: INF: 50 Years Ago - 08-AUG-1944

>Admiral Takes Life - Washington has announced that Rear Admiral Don Pardee
>     Moon, 50, who commanded a task force in the Normandy invasion, committed
>     suicide in Washington on August 5th apparently as a result of combat
>     fatigue.

This suicide was connected with the surprise faux pas during Exercise
Tiger (qv. earlier this Summer on the list). During that exercise of a
small portion of the Normandy invasion task force, German PT boats
surprised and sunk 5 LST's killing about 800 allied personell. The
raid took place off the South West coast of Britian.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Wild, LAN Mgr.  Father of 1.8815          Voice:          (401) 792-2611
ACC - Lippitt - URI  American Legion Post 102. FAX:            (401) 792-5479
Kingston, RI  02881  NRA Life Member           BITNET:           AWild@URIACC
                                               Internet: AWild@URIACC.URI.EDU

"Duties and responsibilities were woven into the fabric of pre-D-Day living.
It was a self-disciplined, free society that those troops cherished, and they
fought a war for it.

The Woodstock celebrants won a cultural war eliminating both the standards
of, and the respect for, self-discipline.

The spoils of that victory are numerous and devastating.
                                                          -John A. Howard
                                                           Rockford Institute
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 6 Aug 1994 to 7 Aug 1994
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 26 messages totalling 1588 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. INTERDISCIPLINARY SYMPOSIUM:  CALL FOR PAPERS
  2. INF: USN Chronology 08-08-94
  3. Re[2]: Privateer
  4. 50TH: EXERCISE TIGER (2)
  5. INF: 50 Years Ago - 09-AUG-1944
  6. Anti-Semitism in Eastern Europe
  7. REQ Info, 2ND ACR (2)
  8. Model( ship)s as memorials themselves (?)
  9. Info:Yap Island (2)
 10. WEAP: Horten flying wings (4)
 11. INFO:  Yap Island
 12. GEN: Poem by John Magee
 13. INFO: Yap Island (2)
 14. TEST
 15. Lend-Lease Russia
 16. [INF] USAAF 9 AUG 44
 17. Vladivostok Lend-Lease
 18. GEN: Poem by John Magee- "High Flight"
 19. INFO:YAP ISLAND

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 21:55:40 -0700
From:    MJL1@NAUVAX.BITNET
Subject: INTERDISCIPLINARY SYMPOSIUM:  CALL FOR PAPERS

>sorry for any cross-posts
>
>
>                               CALL FOR PAPERS
>
>"EXPLORING THE CHALLENGES OF CONFLICT:  ISSUES AND ALTERNATIVES IN THE 20TH
>CENTURY WORLD"
>
>THE FOURTH ANNUAL INTERDISCIPLINARY GRADUATE STUDENT/FACULTY SYMPOSIUM
>Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff, AZ
>November 4-5, 1994
>
>The theme of the fourth annual NAU Graduate Student Interdisciplinary
>Symposium (GSIS) is CONFLICT IN THE 20TH CENTURY. GSIS organizers invite
>graduate and law students, faculty, and non-academics to attend and to submit
>abstracts of papers you would like to present at this year's symposium. This
>national conference set amongst the lush mountain pines of Northern Arizona
>will include two days of diverse panels, speakers, discussions and films.
>Registration includes two meals, a keynote address, and a conference packet.
>
>possible topic areas include, but are not limited to:
>
>
>Conflict and Community in Urban Areas
>Violence and Non-violence as Means of Social Change
>Power Relations:  Social, Economic, and/or Political
>Environmental Conflict, Problems, and Alternatives
>"Legitimate" Violence:  Language, Institutions, and/or War
>Gender Conflicts, Issues, and Alternatives
>Technologies for Violent and Non-violent Uses
>Crime and Societies Response to Crime
>Racial and Ethnic Identities and Conflict
>International Conflict: Military, Economic, and Otherwise
>Conflict as Witnessed in Art, Music, or Literature
>
>THE DEADLINE FOR ABSTRACTS IS SEPTEMBER 1, 1994
>
>REGISTRATION MATERIALS WILL BE SENT OUT UPON RECEIPT AND REVIEW OF ABSTRACTS.
>
>Please send abstracts (200 words plus title) and requests for additional
>information on the symposium to:
>
>     Matt Lindstrom, Co-Chair, GSIS
>     Department of Political Science, NAU Box 15036
>     Flagstaff, AZ 86011
>     (602)  779-5695
>     Email:  MJL1@NAUVAX.UCC.NAU.ECU
>
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 01:40:52 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 08-08-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
08/08 Tue. Destroyers and land-based Marine aircraft from Majuro, Mar-
           shall Islands, bombard and bomb Japanese positions on Taro,
           Maloelap Atoll in the Marshall Islands.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 07:51:36 CDT
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: Privateer

The guy took my comment in the light it was meant to be taken, and I
explained that my WWIIAPS group does a B-17 group, so I felt obligated
to say something.  He took it in the right light, and I think he wanted
to escort a new couple of people who walked in the door since I didn't
need to much explanation regarding the displays.

The Hornet/Doolittle Raider display was interesting, although the B-25's
are really out of scale--looking at the model, Doolittle would have had
about 10 feet to take off from--the guy mentioned the aircraft were out
of scale.

 TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 13:44:53 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <John.Ausland@GMAIL.GAR.NO>
Subject: 50TH: EXERCISE TIGER

>Admiral Takes Life - Washington has announced that Rear Admiral Don Pardee
>     Moon, 50, who commanded a task force in the Normandy invasion, committed
>     suicide in Washington on August 5th apparently as a result of combat
>     fatigue.

>This suicide was connected with the surprise faux pas during Exercise
>Tiger (qv. earlier this Summer on the list). During that exercise of a
>small portion of the Normandy invasion task force, German PT boats
>surprised and sunk 5 LST's killing about 800 allied personell. The
>raid took place off the South West coast of Britian.

COMMENT:  This was Exercise Tiger, which was the final practice landing by the
4th Infantry Division, which made the assault landing on Utah Beach.  There were
two LST's sunk and one badly damaged.  Most of the dead were from an attached
engineer unit.  My battalion commander (29th FA Bn.) told me about the incident
shortly after the exercise.  He mentioned that the high command was concerned
that a few of the officers who were lost knew where we would be landing.

When told about the incident, one of Eisenhower's comments that it meant that he
would have no reserve LSTs.  (Commanders have to be practical.)

There has been a lot of mythology about Tiger, with commentators during the
resent D-Day anniversary saying that it was covered up until recently.  This
meant that they had only recently discovered it.  It was mentioned in the Green
Books published shortly after the war and was discussed in secondary literature
years ago.

On the other hand, neither the British nor US military advertised the incident,
perhaps because of communications foul ups and the failure of the British to
provide planned protection for the convoy.

There were several ceremonies connected with Tiger held in May.  They were
covered by British TV but, as far as I know, not by American.  (I informed CNN
about the ceremonies, but evidently they had other preoccupations.)

  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 06:54:03 -0700
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 09-AUG-1944

On 09-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The US 3rd Army's offensive continues throughout Brittany; the
     6th Armoured Division at Brest, the 83rd Division at St Malo and the 4th
     Armoured Division at Lorient. From Le Mans the XV Corps is moving south
     towards Alencon. The German counter-offensive in the Avrances sector
     loses some of its strength, though there is still very heavy fighting
     taking place. The Canadian II Corps continues to advance along the line
     from Caen towards Falaise.

Marianas - On Guam, mopping up operations continue in the northern part of the
     island.

New Guinea - All Japanese activity ceases in the Aitape sector.

Burma/China - On the Salween river front, the Japanese carry out a successful
     raid against artillery emplacements and supply dumps in the Chinese 8th
     Army sector of Sung Shan.

The Homefront
-------------
No Draft Cuts In Sight - Selective Service Director Maj. Gen. Lewis B. Hershey
     says in Salem, Ore. that the end of the war in Europe will not reduce
     draft quotas because the Navy will need men for a growing fleet and the
     Army will use fresh men to replace those with long service.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  (jbd@netcom.com/jbd@osbm.state.nc.us)
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 08:57:59 -0700
From:    "Office TH325, Extension 3566" <RIEGSECKER@WAYBACK.UPS.EDU>
Subject: Re: 50TH: EXERCISE TIGER

>From:         JOHN AUSLAND <John.Ausland@GMAIL.GAR.NO>
>Subject:      50TH: EXERCISE TIGER
>
>>Admiral Takes Life - Washington has announced that Rear Admiral Don Pardee
>>     Moon, 50, who commanded a task force in the Normandy invasion, committed
>>     suicide in Washington on August 5th apparently as a result of combat
>>     fatigue.
>
>>This suicide was connected with the surprise faux pas during Exercise
>>Tiger (qv. earlier this Summer on the list). During that exercise of a
>>small portion of the Normandy invasion task force, German PT boats
>>surprised and sunk 5 LST's killing about 800 allied personell. The
>>raid took place off the South West coast of Britian.

I don't have the books close at hand, but I believe S. E. Morison
dedicated one of the books in the series to Adm Moon.  If my memory is
not playng tricks on me, he never mentions Exercise Tiger as the cause,
but attributes it to the short time Moon had to plan for the invasion of
Southern France.

[deleted]

>When told about the incident, one of Eisenhower's comments that it meant
>that he
>would have no reserve LSTs.  (Commanders have to be practical.)
>

Butcher, "My Three Years with Eisenhower" attributes this comment to Beetle
Smith, Ike's Chief of Staff.  I'm not trying to pick nits here, but from
what I've read of these two men, it seems more in character for Beetle
than Ike.  Butcher also quotes Ike as saying that Adm Moon was
"a dammed good man."

>There has been a lot of mythology about Tiger, with commentators during the
>resent D-Day anniversary saying that it was covered up until recently.  This
>meant that they had only recently discovered it.  It was mentioned in the Green
>Books published shortly after the war and was discussed in secondary literature
>years ago.

I was surprised to see Stephan Ambrose repeat this story in "Band of
Brothers."  He says (p.57), "The incident was covered up by the Allies
for fear that it would hurt morale among the troops scheduled to go to
France in LSTs (it remained covered up for more than forty years,
evidently out of embarrassment)."

John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

riegsecker@ups.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 12:23:16 -0500
From:    Mike Yaklich <MFY@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism in Eastern Europe

Yes, but once a more Fascist ("Arrow Cross" was the Hungarian terminology)was
installed by the Germans after their coup in '44, the Germans managed to
exterminate some 600,000 Hungarian Jews, a feat which would have been
impossible without the active and voluntary participation of thousands of
Hungarians, civilians as well as the dreaded Gendarme military police.
For a description of some of the incredible brutalities involved (many were
horribly tortured by the police searching for valuables before being herded
on the trains for Auschwitz and elsewhere) see Nagy-Talavera's "The Green
Shirts and Others."  Nagy-Talavera himself was a Jewish teenager in Budapest
during the events described, who personally avoided deportation (many Jews
in Budapest itself were spared, partly because they were needed for labor).
Prior to the German take-over and installation of the Arrow Cross puppet
government, the Hungarian government (especially during Kallay's tenure as
Prime Minister) did indeed shelter the Jews, including many foreigners who
had managed to escape to Hungary.  But once the Germans had destroyed the
autonomous Hungarian government in fall '44, they were able due to the
active participation of so many ordinary Hungarian citizens to deport more
than a half million Jews to the extermination camps in a matter of weeks.
(see also Kallay's autobiography and Professor McCarthy's two-volume work)

Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 12:57:18 -600
From:    Lowell Rick Cox <lcox@AMERIS.CENTER.IL.AMERITECH.COM>
Subject: REQ Info, 2ND ACR

Hello Everyone,

I've been on this list for quite a while now.  I really enjoy many of the
topics, and
I've even learned some new things.

I am interested in learning more about the Second Armored Cavalry Regiment.
I served in L Troop, 3RD Squadron from Feb. of 1978 to Jan. of 1980.  I have
long considered my time with the 2ND ACR as my favorite time in over 17
years of military service (Active 8, USAR 5, & ILNG 4).  I have a pretty solid
knowledge of the Regiments history up to WWI, and post WWII.  But almost
no knowledge of what the unit was up to between the wars, and more
importantly, during WWII.  Any information, sources, etc. would be greatly
appreciated.  Feel free to respond either directly to my address, or to the list
if the information would be of interest to other list-members.

I noticed in a recent post that some list members are planning on attending
GenCon.  I will be attending GenCon and hope to meet some of the other
list-members.  Unfortunately, I will be working the Con, which limits my
freedom of movement somewhat.  If anyone is interested in saying hello,
I can be found/contacted at any of the following areas;

The FASA Demo Booth on the Dealers Floor.
The Computer Concourse
The MGCA Booth

Just ask for Rick Cox.

Thanks in advance for any info. that you can provide!

Rick Cox     lcox@ameris.ameritech.com
Ameritech National Customer Service Center
Hoffman Estates, IL  USA

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 13:05:19 -0500
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <mslrc@UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: Model( ship)s as memorials themselves (?)

As I was designing/constructing my waterline cardstock paper
  model of HMAS PERTH (which went down in the Java Sea in
  early 1942) it just struck me that the models themselves
  are, in a diminuitive way, memorials to the ships they
  replicate and the men who served (and often died) on them.

This is an intriguing contrast to military models, although
  aircraft models are becoming increasingly individualized.

I have dedicated my Russian Front wargames to the Poles,
  Russians, and other peoples of Eastern Europe who were our
  allies and who suffered, endured, and contributed so much
  to Allied Victory.  Maybe I should be "dedicating" my
  *Allied* ship models, similarly?

Lou Coatney, Naval (Model) Architect at Large

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 14:47:17 -0400
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <sep@TVSS2.COMMNET.EDU>
Subject: Info:Yap Island

Been noticing from Jack McKillop's 50YAT postings, that the
U.S. has been bombing Yap island on an almost daily basis. However,
I am ignorant as just what the significance of Yap island is.

Perhaps it is also known under another name? Could someone take pity
on my ignorance and enlighten me?

When I see the work "yap" I think of my wife and the phone...:-)

Thanx                                                           Steve
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - sep@trctc.commnet.edu |"Life may be a drag BUT
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |  it sure beats the only
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |           known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 15:00:07 CCS
From:    Jorge Merino <jem@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: WEAP: Horten flying wings

Hi folks,

I've found this while reviewing some old archive files from another list.
This may be interesting for many folks out there, so I'm forwarding this
info. I hope you will find it interesting.

Jorge Merino

Forwarded note follows..............................

=========================================================================
From:    John Powell <John.Powell@P0.F4.N1010.Z9.FIDONET.ORG>
Subject: Horten Flying Wing

The Horten Flying Wing in World War II: The History & Development of the
Ho 229, by H. P. Dabrowski, translated from the German by David Johnson.
(Schiffer Military History Vol. 47, ISBN 0-88740-357-3)


Sources:
--------

R. Horten/ P.F. Selinger: "Nurflugel", Graz 1983 D. Myhra: "Horten 229"
Monogram Close-Up No. 12, Boylston 1983

B. Lange: "Typenhandbuch der deutschen Luftfahrttechnik", Koblenz 1986

T-2 Report ''German Flying Wings Designed by Horten Brothers",
Wright-Patterson AFB 1946

W. Rosler: "Bericht uber den Fluganfall des
Turbinen-Nurflugel-Flugzeuges Horten IX, V2... (1985, unpublished)

Working Discussion on the 229 Mock-up (13. 10. 1944)

DVL Short Report on the Testing of the Flying Characteristics of the
Horten IX V-1 (Berlin-Adlershof, July 7, 1944)

Power Plant Installation in Go 229  (Horten), (V3+V5), March 7, 1945,
Junkers Flugzeugl- und Motorenwerke A.G.

Flight Log of Lt. Erwin Ziller via Dr. Jorg Ziller

Correspondence with W. Horten, R. Horten, H.J. Meier, D. Myhra, K.
Nickel, W. Radinger, R. Roeser, W. Rosler, H. Scheidhauer, P.F.
Selinger, G. Sengfelder, R. Stadler.


                         The Horten 229 Fighter-Bomber
                           The Horten H V, H VII and
                             H IX All-Wing Aircraft

                              Preliminary Remarks

        The subject of "all-wing" aircraft is too extensive to be
covered in depth here. Therefore, only the Horten H V, H VII and H IX
(the latter also known as the Ho or Go 229) will be dealt with, all of
which were twin-engined aircraft.

        Doctor Reimar Horten, together with Dipl.Ing. Peter Selinger,
has written about all of his aircraft in detail in the book Nurflugel
(Weishaupt Verlag, Graz 1983). Major Walter Horten, at that time
Technical Advisor of the General of Fighters in the
Reichsluftfahrtministerium (RLM), made feasible the realization of his
brother's designs.

                            Nothing New Under The Sun...

        When the newest American super-bomber, the Northrop B-2, was
revealed to the public at Palmdale, California on November 22, 1988,
many aviation history enthusiasts must have noted that the configuration
selected by the aircraft's designers, namely that of the "flying wing,"
had been resurrected from the dead, as it were. Although present day
experience has shown that the all-wing configuration is the best one for
avoiding detection by enemy radar (aided by the latest technology in
materials, electronics and computers), the same configuration has been
in practical use since about 1930. The first jet-powered all-wing
aircraft flew in Germany on February 2, 1945, and at the time was also
virtually undetectable by radar, partly on account of its mixed
construction (wooden wings).

        In the United States, John Knudsen Northrop had been working on
all-wing aircraft since the end of the 1920s. His first aircraft of this
configuration (although it did employ two small vertical tail fins on
thin tail booms) was the "Flying Wing," which flew in 1929. Because of
poor economic conditions during the 1930s, Northrop's twin-engined
all-wing N1M did not appear until 1940, and the N9M until 1942.

        Individual projects were undertaken in varlous countries, but in
the Soviet Union there were numerous attempts, some of them very
promising, to learn the secrets of the all-wing aircraft. The most
successful Soviet designer was Boris Ivanovich Chernanovski, who
developed a series of projects from 1921 to 1940.

        In Germany, the Horten brothers, Reimar and Walter, had in mind
a pure all-wing aircraft with no vertical control surfaces of any kind.
Inspired by the Stork- and Delta-type tailless aircraft of Alexander
Lippisch, they began their work at the end of the 1920s. Successful
flight tests of their first tailless glider were carried out at
Bonn-Hangelar airfield in July 1933. By 1934 they were working at
Germany's "Gliding Mecca," the Wasserkuppe. The all-wing concept had
achieved its first practical success.

        Although development of the all-wing aircraft began at about the
same time in Germany, the Soviet Union and America, there was no
collaboration whatsoever between designers. In spite of this, design
teams in these widely separated parts of the world were convinced that
the all-wing aircraft was the best configuration and pursued the idea
with much idealism. It is no wonder, therefore, that the concept has
been revived in the present day.

        The Northrop "Flying Wings" and the twin-engined Horten H V, H
VII and H IX aircraft described herein can in a way be considered the
forerunners of the B-2.

        The H V was a pure research aircraft equipped with two
counter-rotating pusher propellers: The H IX was designed as a
twin-engined, turbojet fighter-bomber, and the H VII, also with two
pusher propellers, was intended to serve as a trainer for jet aircraft.
Detailed descriptions of the three types follow.

Horten Va, W.-Nr. 5

        The H Va was built in 1936/37 in cooperation with the Dynamit AG
in Troisdorf, near Cologne. A synthetic material (Trolitax) were used in
the aircraft's construction. Use of this material resulted in a series
of problems, even though the glider Hol's der Teufel had previously been
built using this method. Several of the solutions to these problems were
patented by the Dynamit company. The nose of the H V was covered in
clear Cellon and the two pilots occupied prone positions. The aircraft
was fitted with a tricycle undercarriage with faired main members (only
the nosewheel was retractable), and the two Hirth HM-60-R engines drove
two-bladed pusher propellers directly (no extension shafts). The
propeller manufacturer Peter Kempel produced the propellers from
Lignofol (beech wood impregnated with synthetic resin). The H Va
introduced novel movable wingtip control surfaces.

        The aircraft's only flight took place at Bonn-Hangelar in early
1937. In the aircraft were Walter and Reimar Horten. The extreme aft
location of the engines made the aircraft unstable, and at its low
takeoff speed the aircraft's controls were unable to overcome the
resulting tail-heaviness at the moment of rotation. The H Va became
airborne briefly, then crashed, damaging the aircraft seriously. The
injuries sustained by the two men were relatively minor (Walter Horten
knocked out his two upper front teeth). Following the accident the
Dynamit AG collected the remains of the H Va to carry out tests on the
materials used in its construction.

Horten Vb, W.-Nr. 9

        The H Vb was a research aircraft built at Cologne-Ostheim using
conventional construction methods (wood and steel tube) on instructions
from Major Dinort with the approval of Ernst Udet. As a result of the
accident with the H Va, the movable wingtip controls were dispensed with
and the designers turned to more conventional elevons. The Hirth engines
of the unlucky H Va were used again, but were positioned further forward
and drove their propellers vla short extension shafts, resulting in a
more favorable weight distribution. The H Vb's pilots sat upright next
to each other and were provided with individual raised canopies. Like
the H Va, the H Vb had a fixed tricycle undercarriage. The aircraft's
first flight took place at Cologne-Ostheim in autumn 1937 with Walter
Horten at the controls. From the beginning of the war in 1939 until 1941
the aircraft was parked in the open at Potsdam-Werder airfield, which
was not altogether beneficial for an aircraft built largely of wood.

Horten Vc, W.-Nr. 27

        Efforts by the Luftwaffe-Inspektion 3 (Lln 3, or Luftwaffe
Inspectorate for Fighters, whose Technical Department Head was Walter
Horten) succeeded in convincing Generalflugzeugmeister Ernst Udet that
it was advisable to retum the H V to flying status. In August 1941 a
special detachment of Lln 3 was formed in Minden to oversee the
reconstruction of the aircraft by the Peschke Firm.  Peschke, a former
WW I fighter pilot, had established a flying school at Hangelar and
later an aircraft repair facility at Minden, The latter facility
repaired aircraft such as the Fw 44 Stieglitz, He 72 Kadett, Fi 156
Storch and the RK Schwalbe. Peschke and the Horten brothers knew each
other from Hangelar. In charge of the Lln 3 detachment was Luftwaffe
Leutnant Reimar Horten. His team consisted of three designing engineers
and five other men, including Heinz Scheidhauer, an experienced all-wing
glider specialist. Later the special detachment was moved to Gottingen
and enlarged to thirty men (soldiers, engineers, craftsmen and so on).

        The Horten Vc was converted from the H Vb, which had been badly
damaged by the elements. In Minden the two-seat H Vb became a
single-seat aircraft. The pilot was accommodated in a normal seated
position. The H Va's Hirth engines were retained, as were its steel tube
and wood construction and fixed undercarriage. As property of the
military, it was finished in standard Luftwaffe camouflage and was
assigned the code PE + HO (PE for Peschke and HO for Horten).

        The H Vc made its first flight on May 26, 1942. Walter Horten
later flew the machine to Gottingen, where Luftwaffenkommando IX was
being formed.

        Flugkapitan Prof. Dr. Josef Stuper, then Director of the
Instituts fur Forschungsflugbetrieb und Flugwesen (Institute for Flight
Research and Aviation) at the Aerodynamischen Versuchsanstalt (AVA)
Gottingen (Gottingen Aerodynamic Research Institute), carried out test
flights in the H Vc.  Late in the summer of 1943 an incident occurred
involving the H Vc. Stuper took off from the center of the airfield with
the aircraft's flaps in the down position. The aircraft's under-carriage
struck the roof of a hangar and the H Vc crashed. Stuper escaped without
serious injury, but the aircraft was badly damaged. It was subsequently
stored at Gottingen in anticipation of restoration following the end of
the war. Events were to prove differently, however, as all of the
aircraft held there were assembled at the edge of the airfield and
burned following Germany's surrender. A projected glider tug based on
the H Vc was not built.

Horten VII, W.-Nr. 29

        Construction of the H VII took place at the Gottingen Bureau.
The aircraft's wings, which were of wooden construction, were built by
the Lln 3 workshop, while the center section, which was of welded tube
steel construction with Dural skinning, was manufactured by the Peschke
Firm in Minden. The aircraft made its first flight in May 1943 with
Heinz Scheidhauer and Walter Horten on board. The aircraft had
originally been conceived as a flying test-bed for the Argus-Schmidt
pulse-jet engine after the H V had proved unsuitable for the role. When
this plan was abandoned it was proposed as a fighter training aircraft.
The H VII was powered by two Argus AS-10-SC engines drivinq two-bladed
constant-speed propellers via extension shafts. The aircraft featured a
fully retractable twin nosewheel under-carriage. So-called "wingtip
rudders" were used in place of a conventional rudder. The aircraft was
assigned the RLM-Number 8-226. The aircraft's pilots were Heinz
Scheidhauer, Erwin Ziller and Walter Horten. In autumn 1944 Oberst
Knemeyer demonstrated the H VII to Hermann Goring at Oranienburg, after
the Reichsmarschall had expressed a desire to see a Horten aircraft in
action.

        Knemeyer was the RLM flight-test chief and was favorably
disposed toward the aircraft developed by the Horten brothers. Goring, a
former WW I fighter pilot, had not participated in the later gliding
boom and was unfamiliar with the aircraft which emerged from the
program. He wanted to see the aircraft fly on one engine, which Heinz
Scheidhauer did without any hesitation. The Reichsmarschall was
impressed; the Peschke Firm received an order for twenty examples.

        Construction of the H VII V2 began in 1944, but the aircraft had
not been completed when the war ended. The V3, which was to see the
"wingtip rudders" replaced by spoilers above and below the wings, as on
the H IX, progressed no farther than the manufacturing of various
components.

        In February 1945 Heinz Scheidhauer flew the H VII to Gottingen.
Hydraulic failure prevented him from extending the aircraft's
undercarriage, and he was forced to make a belly landing. The resulting
damage had not been repaired when, on April 7, 1945, US troops occupied
the airfield. The aircraft presumably suffered the same fate as the H V
and was burned.

Horten IX V1, W.-Nr. 38

        Walter Horten was aware of the performance achieved by the DFS
194 rocket-powered research aircraft, and thus knew that wooden
construction methods were suitable for high-performance aircraft. After
seeing the Me 262 in March 1943 he set out to acquire information on the
Jumo 004 turbojet engine. Further work on the H VII was abandoned and
all efforts were concentrated on the H IX, which originated from
Goring's 1000x1000x1000 demand, in which the Reichsmarschall specified
that no new project would be considered unless it achieved the following
performance figures: a speed of at least 1,000 kph and the ability to
carry a 1,000 kg bomb load 1,000 km into enemy territory. Justifiable
deviations from these figures would be accepted. At that time Walter
Horten was a Hauptmann on the staff of Lln3. He managed to obtain a
transfer to Gottingen, where he took over command of Luftwaffenkommando
IX. Soon afterward, however, the Kommando was officially disbanded, and
as a result Lln3 ceased to be the office responsible for development of
the Horten projects. New life was injected into the Horten Firm, when,
in August, Hermann Goring informed the company that work on the H IX
turbojet fighter-bomber was to proceed with all urgency and that it was
to construct a flyable, but unpowered, example as soon as possible.

        Luftwaffenkommando IX, which officially no longer existed,
continued to be funded and carried on its work, but without direct
influence from the Technischen Amt of the RLM. The H IX V1 was an
unpowered research glider and received the RLM-Number 8-229. The
aircraft was of mixed construction (welded steel tube and wood) and was
covered with several layers of plywood of various qualities, the outer
layer being of the best quality. This method of construction made radar
detection of the aircraft extremely difficult. The pilot was
accommodated in a normal seated position. The first flight of the V1
took place on March 1, 1944, at Gottingen with Heinz Scheidhauer at the
controls. Following several towed takeoffs, the aircraft was sent to
Oranienburg near Berlin for flight testing, with Scheidhauer as pilot. A
brief report submitted by the DVL on April 7, 1944, indicated that the
aircraft provided an excellent gun platform.

        In order to simulate the stabilizing effect of the engines,
which were absent from the V1, the aircraft's main undercarriage legs
were faired from the outset; only the aircraft's nosewheel was
retractable. On March 5 the nose gear failed after it developed a wobble
on Oranienburg's concrete runway. A special pressure suit was to have
replaced the absent cockpit pressurization, but was never used in
practice.

        The machine was sent to Brandis, where it was to be tested by
the military and used for training purposes. It was found there by
soldiers of the US 9th Armored Division at the end of the war and was
later burned in a "clearing action."

Horten HIX, Werk-Nr.9, 1944/45

        The H IX V2 was a test machine powered by two Jumo 004 turbojets
and was assigned the RLM number 8-229. It was the world's first
turbojet-powered all-wing aircraft.  The V2 had a fully retractable
undercarriage and was unarmed. The pilot was accommodated in a
conventional seated position.

        Serious difficulties and delays in construction arose when the
planned BMW 003 engines had to be replaced by more powerful Jumo 004s.
The diameter of the Junkers engine was greater than that of the BMW
product, requiring redesign of the engine bays. Like its predecessors,
the aircraft was of mixed construction. The V2's undercarriage consisted
of the tailwheel from a wrecked He 177 bomber, which was used as
nosewheel, and the main undercarriage from a Bf 109 fighter.

        The first test flight was made from Oranienburg on February 2,
1945, with Leutnant Erwin Ziller at the controls, and lasted about 30
minutes. The Horten brothers had known Ziller from the competitions at
the Wasserkuppe. Ziller had familiarized himself with all-wing aircraft
in December 1944 and January 1945, making several flights in the Horten
H IX V1 glider (an He 111 served as glider tug) and the twin-engined
Horten H VII at Oranienburg.

        Ziller spent the last three days of December 1944 at
Erprobungsstelle Rechlin, where he made a total of five flights in the
Me 262. These flights provided Ziller with an opportunity to become
familiar with the operation and characteristics of the Jumo 004 turbojet
engine.

        At the end of a second successful test flight on February 3,
1945, Ziller deployed the aircraft's braking parachute too soon on his
landing approach. The result was a hard landing which damaged the
aircraft's main undercarrlage. Consequently, the third test flight in
the Horten H IX did not take place until February 18, 1945. Returning
after about 45 minutes in the air, Ziller was seen to dive the aircraft
and pull up several times at an altitude of about 800 meters, apparently
in an effort to relight an engine. The undercarriage was lowered
unusually early, at an altitude of about 400 meters. The V2's speed
decreased and, accompanied by increasing engine noise, its nose dropped
and the aircraft entered a right-hand turn. The H IX completed a 360
degree turn with its wings banked 20 degrees. It then accelerated and
completed a second and third 360 degree turn, the angle of bank
increasing all the while. As it began a fourth circle, the aircraft
struck the frozen turf beyond the airfield boundary.

        Walter Rosler was the first Horten employee to reach the crash
site, about two-and-a-half minutes after the accident. In his report he
stated: "The first thing I saw was the two Junkers engines lying on the
other side of the embankment. I could hear the turbine running down in
the still-warm left power plant, while there was not a sound from the
cooled-off right engine which lay beside it. . ." There was a strong
smell of fuel, but no fire. Other than the jet engines and plexiglass
cockpit hood, the aircraft had been completely destroyed. Like the
engines, Ziller was ejected from the aircraft on impact. He was thrown
against a large tree and killed instantly. Ziller had not used his
radio, and had continued to fly the aircraft with an engine out and the
undercarriage extended. He did not attempt to use his ejection seat and
parachute to safety, and the aicraft's canopy was not jettisoned. It
seems certain that he was attempting to save the valuable aircraft.

        What had happened? The empty compressed air bottle in the
wreckage confirmed that the undercarriage had been lowered with
compressed air after a loss of hydraulic power following the failure of
an engine. Had there been a stall, beginning at the right wingtip? Had
the test pilot been rendered unconscious and unable to react by
carbonizing oil from the remaining engine, which had eventually
overheated? (There were no bulkheads separating the cockpit from the
engine bays.)

        Unfortunately, only Leutnant Ziller could have answered these
questions, and he had failed to survive. In the opinion of the
investigating experts sabotage could not be ruled out.

Horten H IX V3, RLN-Number 8-229

        The H IX V3 was an unarmed, twin-Jet, single seat aircraft.
Further production of the fighter bomber was assigned to the Gothaer
Waggonfabrik (GWF). Well-known for its Go 241 carg0 glider, Gotha was
considered the company best suited to manufacture Horten aircraft. The
aircraft's turbojet engines were installed splayed 15 degrees left and
right of the aircraft centerline and 4 degrees nose down. The new
installation was tested in a center section mock-up. Construction of the
H IX V3 was nearly complete when the Gotha Works at Friederichsroda was
overrun by troops of the American 3rd Army's VII Corps on April 14,
1945. The aircraft was assigned the number T2-490 by the Americans. The
aircraft's official RLM designation is uncertain, as it was referred to
as the Ho 229 as well as the Go 229. Also found in the destroyed and
abandoned works were several other prototypes in various stages of
construction, including a two-seat version.

        The V3 was sent to the United States by ship, along with other
captured aircraft, and finally ended up in the H. H. "Hap" Arnold
collection of the Air Force Technical Museum. The all-wing aircraft was
to have been brought to flying status at Park Ridge, Illinois, but
budget cuts in the late forties and early fifties brought these plans to
an end. The V3 was handed over to the present-day National Air and Space
Museum (NASM) in Washington D.C.


Technical Data:
---------------

Type            Span/m  Length/m  Height/m  Empty      Gross
------------                                weight/kg  weight/kg
                ------  --------  --------  ---------  ---------

Horten H Va     14.00    -         -        1,600      1,840

Horten Vb       16.00   6.00      2.10      1,360      1,600

Horetn Vc       16.00   6.00       -        1,440      1,600

Horten H VII    16.00   7.40      2.60      2,200      3,200

Horten IX V1    16.76   7.60       -        1,900      2,000

Horten H IX V2  16.76   7.47      2.81      4,844      6,876

Horten H IX V3  16.80   7.47      2.81      5,067      8,999

Horten H IX V4           -         -         -          -

Horten H IX V5           -         -         -          -

Horten H IX V6  16.76    -         -         -          -

Horten IX V7             -         -         -          -

Horten IX V8             -         -         -          -


Technical Data:
---------------

Type            Power Plants  Output      Maximum    Cruise     Landing
------------                              speed/kph  speed/kph  speed/kph
                ------------  ------      ---------  ---------  ----------

Horten H Va     2xHirth HM60R 80HP each   280        250        84

Horten Vb       2xHirth HM60R 80HP each   260        230        70

Horetn Vc       2xHirth HM60R 80HP each   260        230        70

Horten H VII    2xArgus AS10C 240HP each  340        310        100

Horten IX V1       -            -          -          -         75

Horten H IX V2  2xJumo 004B-2 900KG each  977        690        145

Horten H IX V3  2xJumo 004B-2 900KG each  977        632        156

Horten H IX V4     -            -          -          -          -

Horten H IX V5     -            -          -          -          -

Horten H IX V6  2xJumo 004B-2 900KG each   -          -          -

Horten IX V7       -            -          -          -          -

Horten IX V8       -            -          -          -          -


Technical Data:
---------------

Type            Crew      Armament      Remarks
------------    -------   --------      ------------------------------

Horten H Va     2 prone      -          Research aircraft, synthetic
                                        materials.

Horten Vb       2 prone      -          Research aircraft, mixed wood
                                        and steel tube construction.

Horten Vc       1 seated     -          Research aircraft, mixed wood
                                        and steel tube construction.

Horten H VII    2 seated     -          Fighter trainer Ho 226,
                                        wood-Dural construction.

Horten IX V1    1            -          Research aircraft, mixed wood
                                        and steel tube construction.

Horten H IX V2  1 seated     -          Fighter test aircraft, wood and
                                        steel tube construction.

Horten H IX V3  1 seated  2xMK 103 or   Fighter-bomber Ho Prototype
                          4xMK 108 or   Reconnaissance Aircraft.
                          2xMK 108 and
                          2xRB8-/81

Horten H IX V4  1 seated     -          Ho 229 B-1 night fighter.

Horten H IX V5  1 seated     -          Ho 229 B-1 night fighter.

Horten H IX V6  2 seated  4xMK 108 or   Trainer, night fighter trainer.
                          2xMK 103

Horten IX V7                 -          Prototype 3, A-series with full
                                        equipment.

Horten IX V8                 -          -

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 15:25:50 -0400
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <sep@TVSS2.COMMNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Horten flying wings

Was it an oversight that you didn't mention Burnelli's liftwing design?

The last remaining burnelli craft sits dejectedly at the New England Air
Museum, in Windsor Locks, CT.

apparently some sort of ago contest in which Burnelli lost...

Anyway, the plane itself looks like it could use some TLC...
                                                                Steve
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - sep@trctc.commnet.edu |"Life may be a drag BUT
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |  it sure beats the only
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |           known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 15:41:11 CCS
From:    Jorge Merino <jem@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Horten flying wings

The article was about the Horten brothers flying wing designs. I have some
little info about Burnelli designs at home. I will post it if you are
interested. If you have also info about Burnelli aircraft, please post it.

Jorge Merino

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 15:49:24 -0400
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <sep@TVSS2.COMMNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Horten flying wings

>The article was about the Horten brothers flying wing designs. I have some
>little info about Burnelli designs at home. I will post it if you are
>interested. If you have also info about Burnelli aircraft, please post it.

>Jorge Merino

Sure, I'm interested. All I know about Burnelli's design is what I read
from an old Air/Space issue (Dan probably wrote it;-)).

Unfortuantly, I'm very ignorant of much of what went on 50 years ago.
I wanna learn, hence here I am!

Thanx in advance Jorge, I appreciate the effort...
                                                                Steve
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - sep@trctc.commnet.edu |"Life may be a drag BUT
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |  it sure beats the only
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |           known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 16:40:56 EDT
From:    SKIP WILDER <PHSP11A@PRODIGY.COM>
Subject: INFO:  Yap Island

The following is from the Academic American Encyclopedia:

        The Yap Islands are a volcanic archipelago in the western Caroline
Islands in the western Pacific.  Yap is the largest of the 14 islands.  The
total land area is 45.9 sq. miles, and the population, mostly of Malay
origin, is 12,008 (1988).  Copra, bauxite, and manganese are exported.
Stone artifacts and the stone money still in use attract archaeologists to
the islands.
        Probably visited by the Portuguese in the 1520s, the islands were
annexed by Spain in 1686 and acquired by Germany in 1899 for a transoceanic
cable station.  Held by Japan from 1919, the Yap Islands were part of the
Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, administered by the United States
from 1947 to 1986, when they became part of the Federate States of Micronesia.
 -----------------------------------------------------------
 |    Skip Wilder              |                           |
 |    phsp11a@prodigy.com      |"The road to hell is paved |
 |    FAX (703)528-2103        | with good intentions."    |
 |    McLean, Virginia, U.S.A. |                           |
 -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 17:14:26 EDT
From:    John Sloan <JohnS426@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: REQ Info, 2ND ACR

Rick Cox is asking about the history of the 2nd ACR in WWII. For any question
on WWII American order of battle I recommend Shelby Stanton's fine book,
Order of battle US Army WWII
He shows the 2nd cavalry regt (horse) stationed at Ft Riley Kansas as aprt of
2nd cavalry div until 24 June 42. it was inactivated at Ft Riely on 15 July
42 and all personnel and equipment were transfered to the 2nd Armored
Regiment.
Under 2nd armored regiment he shows - activated at Ft. Riley Kansas on 15
July 42 and assigned to the 9th Armored Division. moved to Cp Younbg Calif on
14 June 43 where the regiment was redesignated the 2nd Tank Battalion on 9
Oct. but its 1st and 3rd bns were redesignated the 776yh and 19th tank bns
and Troop D 89th Cav Recon Sqdr respectively and rest was disbanded.
Turning to the entry for the 9th armored division we find that it was
activated at Ft Riley on 15 July 42 and after moving around the states  to
various places left Camp Kilmer Jew Jersy on 14 Aug 44 andarrived in England
on 1 Sept 1944. It then went to France and crossed into Luxemburg on 20 Oct
44. It went back and forth between Belgium and France until end of Feb 45
when it entered Germanyh on 2 March.  There is a couple page description of
the combat actions and data on losses and commanders etc.

HOWEVER:  In view of the way the army has switched lineages around I can't
guarantee that they consider the current 2nd ACR as the lineal descendent of
the 2nd Cav Regt of preWWII vintage.
So there you have it. A call to the folks in the lineage business at Cameron
Station would confirm the heritage they assign.

hope this helps
john sloan
johns426@aol.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 20:50:00 +0000
From:    Daniel =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mal=E9part_=28514=29?= 283-0348
         <Daniel.Malepart@IRAP.NRC.CA>
Subject: GEN: Poem by John Magee

    Good afternoon, everyone!

    I was watching the movie "The Man without a face" this week-end, and in
    it, you have Mel Gibson saying a poem in which the last verse finishes
    by "... and touched the Face of God".  Unfortunately, I didn't catch
    the whole poem.

    Further research brought me to a book where a few verses of this poem
    is reproduced: it's a poem by John Magee, who was killed in the Battle
    of Britain.

    Can anyone of you give me the whole poem?  It looks like a very decent
    and touching poem...

    Thanks in advance!

    Daniel Malepart, Computer specialist | "Il faut detester la guerre et
    Montreal, Quebec, Canada             | respecter ceux qui l'ont faite."
    daniel.malepart@irap.nrc.ca          | - Antoine de St-Exupery

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 15:11:59 -0700
From:    Ed Kettler <deradler@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: INFO: Yap Island

Yap was one of the Japanese island bases bypassed in th eCentral Pacific
campaign.  The bases were routinely pounded to prevent them from
endangering ships moving towards US held islands or conducting amphibious
operations against Japanese bases.

Ed Kettler                                       deradler@netcom.com


On Mon, 8 Aug 1994, SKIP WILDER wrote:

> The following is from the Academic American Encyclopedia:
>
>         The Yap Islands are a volcanic archipelago in the western Caroline
> Islands in the western Pacific.  Yap is the largest of the 14 islands.  The
> total land area is 45.9 sq. miles, and the population, mostly of Malay
> origin, is 12,008 (1988).  Copra, bauxite, and manganese are exported.
> Stone artifacts and the stone money still in use attract archaeologists to
> the islands.
>         Probably visited by the Portuguese in the 1520s, the islands were
> annexed by Spain in 1686 and acquired by Germany in 1899 for a transoceanic
> cable station.  Held by Japan from 1919, the Yap Islands were part of the
> Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, administered by the United States
> from 1947 to 1986, when they became part of the Federate States of Micronesia.
>  -----------------------------------------------------------
>  |    Skip Wilder              |                           |
>  |    phsp11a@prodigy.com      |"The road to hell is paved |
>  |    FAX (703)528-2103        | with good intentions."    |
>  |    McLean, Virginia, U.S.A. |                           |
>  -----------------------------------------------------------
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 18:37:59 -0400
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <sep@TVSS2.COMMNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: INFO: Yap Island

Ed Kettler writes

>Yap was one of the Japanese island bases bypassed in th eCentral Pacific
>campaign.  The bases were routinely pounded to prevent them from
>endangering ships moving towards US held islands or conducting amphibious
>operations against Japanese bases.

>On Mon, 8 Aug 1994, SKIP WILDER wrote:

>> The following is from the Academic American Encyclopedia:
>>
>>         The Yap Islands are a volcanic archipelago in the western Caroline
>> Islands in the western Pacific.  Yap is the largest of the 14 islands.  The
>> total land area is 45.9 sq. miles, and the population, mostly of Malay
>> origin, is 12,008 (1988).  Copra, bauxite, and manganese are exported.
>> Stone artifacts and the stone money still in use attract archaeologists to
>> the islands.
>>         Probably visited by the Portuguese in the 1520s, the islands were
>> annexed by Spain in 1686 and acquired by Germany in 1899 for a transoceanic
>> cable station.  Held by Japan from 1919, the Yap Islands were part of the
>> Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, administered by the United States
>> from 1947 to 1986, when they became part of the Federate States of Micronesia.


So, I guess they were sort of like Truk. Always on the minds of the US, allways
a threat, but neutralized by bypassing them, rather than a costly invasion. I
suppose they consisted a threat because they were so consistantly bombed, but
not worth the cost of invading, eg. loss of life.

The lesson here, I guess is that there are two ways of neutralizing an enemy:
By brute force, and by isolation.

Thanx to you and Skip for such prompt, complete, and thourough replies. It's
gentlemen like yourself that make this list so informative and enjoyable!


                                                                Steve

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - sep@trctc.commnet.edu |"Life may be a drag BUT
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |  it sure beats the only
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |           known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Aug 1994 02:06:38 +0200
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@NAT1.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: TEST

Just a test to see if I am on the list now...

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 20:59:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: Info:Yap Island

 >Been noticing from Jack McKillop's 50YAT postings, that the
 >U.S. has been bombing Yap island on an almost daily basis. However,
 >I am ignorant as just what the significance of Yap island is.
 >
 >Perhaps it is also known under another name? Could someone take pity
 >on my ignorance and enlighten me?
 >
 >When I see the work "yap" I think of my wife and the phone...:-)

And what is your wife's e-mail address????????

 >Thanx                                                           Steve
 >Steven E. Pudlo  - sep@trctc.commnet.edu |"Life may be a drag BUT



Steven,

Yap Island is an island in the Caroline Islands at approximately 9 deg 30'
N and 138 deg 10' E.  Yap had two important functions during WWII; first,
it was a naval base but I will leave it to the Naval Historians to pick up
on this thread.  I am going to concentrate on it's importance as an air
base.

During the invasion of the Mariana Islands in 1944, the US was concerned
about the Japanese reinforcing their air garrisons in the Central and SW
Pacific.  There were three routes available to the Japanese, i.e.:

  1. From the Home Islands by way of Marcus Island in the North Pacific to
Wake Island where the Allied supply lines could be attacked.
  2. From the Home Islands to the Bonin Islands and then to the Mariana
Islands for staging to Truk Island.
  3. From the Philippines thru the Palau Islands and western Caroline
Islands (Yap Island and Woleai Atoll) to Truk Island.

Yap and Woleai took a beating from Thirteenth Air Force B-24s to block this
resupply of aircraft.  The Thirteenth hit Yap each day from 22 to 28 Jun;
on 18 days from 3 to 23 Jul; and finally, from 2 to 10 Aug.  All told, over
1,000 tons of bombs were dropped on Yap.

Another consideration was that Yap was approximately 400 miles (644 km)
SW of the Mariana Islands.  The US wanted (1) to deny the Japanese a base
from which to attack the landing force and (2) the USN planned to build a
very large anchorage at Ulithi and wanted to keep Japanese aircraft out of
the area.  So Yap and Woleai took a beating to keep the airfields
inoperative.

Finally, in Sep 43, Admiral Nimitz issued a plan covering future operations
in the Central Pacific which included the following invasions:

  1. Makin and Tarawa in the Gilbert Islands by 15 Nov 43.
  2. Kwajalein, Wotje and Maloelap in the Marshall Islands by 1 Jan 44.
  3. Eniwetok, Marshall Islands and Kusaie, Caroline Islands by 15 Feb 44.
  4. Either Ponape or Truk in the Caroline Islands by 1 Jun 44 and 1 Sep 44
     respectively.
  5. Possibly Yap and Paulau in the western Caroline Islands or Saipan and
     Tinian in the Marianas by the end of 1944.

There were approximately 10,500 Japanese troop on Yap.

Yap remained a candidate until Sep 44 when, after a series of carrier
strikes in the W Pacific, Nimitz realized that there was limited opposition
in the area and he decided to drop the invasion of Yap and proceed directly
to the Philippines.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 21:05:54 EDT
From:    John Sloan <JohnS426@AOL.COM>
Subject: Lend-Lease Russia

Hi all,
I am sending with this a email I received from Vladivostok from a Russian
journalist who is publishing information on the American - Lend Lease program
to Russia in the Soviet Far East during WWII. This is certainly a very
obscure part of the overall lend lease program, which itself has not been
acknowledged much heretofore in Russia. If anyone has any ideas on how the
work this gentleman is trying to do can be furthered, I would appreciate
hearing them. Perhaps some academic organization holding a conference on the
subject or a foundation having an interest could help fund the further
research. Perhaps there is an American scholar who is already working on the
issue, who would like to collaborate .  Here is the message.
thanks to all
John Sloan
johns426@aol.com
*********

From:     alla@pub.marine.su
To:  JohnS426

Dear Mr. Professor, I am free-lance journalist. During some years
I have been researching the theme: "Lend-Lease in the Pacific".
This was very secret and till now is very unknown period of
relations between our countries and our people on the Pacific
Ocean. "Lend-Lease on Pacific" is a name of my article in the
Russion newspaper "Vostok Rossii" what was published in Anchorage
in April 1993 in English. The newspaper died after this number.
And magazine "Russian Life" probably died. In this magazine might
be my second article in English: "ALSIB is just the tip of the
Iceberg".
Otis E. Hays wrout about my first article: "excellent". I hope
you know him and his book "Home from Siberia". His address:
                     Otis E. Hays, Jr.
                     Route 1, Box 464
                     Pierce City, MO 65723 USA

Several dozen of my articles were being published in Russian: in
central newspapers "Izvestiya", "Moskovsky Komsomolets", "Gudok",
"Vozdushny Transport", "Nevskoye Vremya" and magazines "Morskoy
Flot" and "Morskoy Zbornic", in newspapers of Vladivostok,
Khabarovsk, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, Magadan.
     Three of my articles have been accepted for the
encyclopedical editions: by the Far Eastern State University in
Vladivostok and by Institute of the War History in Moscow.
Academic Oleg Reshevsky having read my article for "Navy
Historical Encyclopedia" ordered from me an article for
Historical collection where he is an editor. I sent him my
article some days ago.
     I made many radioprograms and some TV programs on our Far
East and some programs on the "Radio Rossii" and TV "Ostankino".
I used in my work materials from different Russian State and
Party archives, Economics Archives of Russian Federation, Foreign
Politics Archives of R. F., personal archives and remembrances of
participants of these events. I used American books what got open
now: "The roads to Russia. United States Lend-Lease to the Soviet
Union" by Robert H. Jones, "The Persian Corridor and Aid to
Russia" by T.H. Vail Motter, fragments from "Admiral Ambassador
to Russia" by William Standley, "The Forgotten War" by Stan
Cohen, "Home from Siberia" by Otis Hays and some articles; some
American books in translation: "Roosevelt and Hopkins" by Robert
Sherwood, "Roosvelt and Lend-Lease" by Robert Coacley, "Hellcats
at the Sea" and "Sink'em All" by Charles Lockwood and some other
materials either in English or in translation. And many of the
documentary, memorial and scientific books and articles in
Russian.
     There were two exibitions in the large libraries of
Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky and Vladivostok. Its included some of my
articles, foto materials that I found, and some books that I
used. The exibition in Petropavlovsk was shown by TV "Ostankino"
in program "News". This program was prepared for the Day of 52
Anniversary of the Lend-Lease Agreement, but was shown almost a
month ago.
I made a big slide-film and some other things.
     I would like to write a book and to make a documentary. The
second project is urgent because fewer and fewer participants of
these events remain among us. But it is very expensive project.
Videofilm is not suitable for this theme.
     To realize these programmes I need to come to the United
States for gathering some materials in museums and some other
scientific organizations and also for meeting the following
people:
1. officers (or their families) who worked in the US Consulate in
Vladivostok, 1941-1945;
2. offices (or their families) who worked in the representation
for Lend-Lease in Vladivostok, 1941-1945;
3. peoples (or their families) who worked in the staff of the
American weather stations in Petropavlovsk and Khabarovsk at the
autumn 1945;
4. participants (or their families) of the naval building
expeditions from San Francisco to Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky and
Khabarovsk;
5. American fliers who were interned in the Soviet Far East,
1942-1945. Otis Hays knows them. Michael R. Quinn, president NCA,
know one of the members of the crew of the bomber what set in
Primorye near settlement Unashi in 1942. Our meeting in
Khabarovsk was so short that I can not ask him the name of his
friend. Michael R. Quinn's address: 22320 Foothill Blvd., Ste 425
Hayward, California 94541 Telephone (510) 889-6647
Telecopier (510) 889-6655
6. the members of the crew of the submarine "Spadefish" what
torpeded the most big Soviet ship "Transbalt" at 13 June 1945 in
the Japan sea;
7. Veterans of the Coast Guard and Navy, officers and workers of
the ports of the western coast in war years, builders of the
ships type "Liberty", veterans of some studios of Hollywood, and
some other who remember large Russian Lend-Lease on the Pacific
ocean.
The Jubilee of the our joint Victory comes nearer.
     Some monthes ago Primorsky Fund of Culture took part in my
work. The Fund can receive an American representative in
Vladivostok in exchange for my visit to the United States as
culture change.
     I hope you help me to organaize necessary program for my
successful work in your country.
                              About me:
I was born in St.Peterburg in 1937, went through Leningrad
blocade, came at Kamchatka in 1963, worked advantageously in
seismology, am working in the Press from 1977. My English is not
well. I had only one reply for my many letters to the U.S.A. and
received it in strange circumstances. I hope e-mail will help me
to have your reply.

       Respectfully yours                          Alla Paperno
>From : Alla Paperno <alla@pub.marine.su>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 21:15:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 9 AUG 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
WEDNESDAY, 9 AUGUST 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  F-6, North American Mustang
  Mosquito, deHavilland
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang
  P-61, Northrop Black Widow

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 24 fighter-bombers support ground
forces in the Taungni-Sahmaw area; several others unsuccessfully attack a
bridge N of Hopin and bomb the town of Tagwin. The 426th Night Fighter
Squadron, Tenth Air Force, arrives at Madhaiganj, India from the US with
P-61s (first mission is 21 Nov).

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 6 B-25s bomb a compound and vehicle
shed on the NE edge of Hengyang; 36 P-40s and P-51s attack trucks, gun
positions, and buildings at several points in the Hengyang-Siangtan area; 21
P-51s and P-40s knock out a pontoon bridge and hit junks and sampans at
Changsha, and attack rivercraft at points along the C Yangtze River.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 533: 824 bombers and 675
fighters are dispatched to strategic targets (aircraft and tank factories,
airfields and fuel depots) in SE Germany; weather deteriorated enroute and
many bombers were recalled when confronted with a front rising to 28,000-feet
(8,534 m) and most units attacked targets of opportunity; only 25 bombers hit
their primary (Sindelfingen); 18 bombers and 3 fighters are lost; targets
were (numbers in parenthesis indicate number of bombers bombing):
  1. Of 359 B-17s, 103 hit Pirmasens; 56 hit Elsenborn, 41 hit Karlsruhe, 30
hit Ulm, 8 hit Spreicher and marshalling yards at Saarbrucken (34) and
Luxembourg (29); they claim 1-1-1 Luftwaffe aircraft; 11 B-17s are lost, 1 is
damaged beyond repair and 157 damaged; 1 airman is KIA, 5 WIA and 96 MIA.
Escort is provided by 243 P-47s and P-52s; they claim 33-0-10 aircraft in the
air and 24-0-15 on the ground; 1 P-47 and 1 P-51 are lost (pilots are MIA); 2
P-47s and 5 P-51s are damaged beyond repair.
  2. Of 218 B-17s, 16 hit Aacen, 12 hit Eindhoven, 12 hit St Vith marshalling
yard and 7 hit targets of opportunity; 3 B-17s are lost, 1 is damaged beyond
repair and 94 are damaged; 5 airman are WIA and 18 MIA. Escort is provided by
162 P-47s and P-51s without loss.
  3. Of 247 B-24s, 147 hit Saarbrucken marshalling yard and 25 hit an
aircraft engine plant at Sindelfingen; 4 B-24s are lost, 2 are damaged beyond
repair and 126 damaged; 1 airman is KIA, 10 WIA and 39 MIA. Escort is
provided by 165 P-38s, P-47s and P-51s; they claim 6-0-4 aircraft; 1 P-38 is
lost (pilot is MIA).
  Mission 535: 3 of 4 B-17s fly a Micro H test mission against Aubigny,
France airstrip. Escort is provided by 16 P-38s without loss.
  Mission 536: 6 of 6 B-17s drop leaflets in France and the Netherlands
during the night.
  116 P-47s, escorted by 40 P-51s, are dispatched on fighter-bomber missions
against communications in France without loss.
  In England, HQ 325th Photographic Wing (Reconnaissance) is activated at
High Wycombe; and HQ 25th Bombardment Group (Reconnaissance) and 652d
Bombardment Squadron (Heavy, Weather Reconnaissance) with B-24s, the 653d
Bombardment Squadron (Light, Weather Reconnaissance) with B-24s and Mosquito
XVIs and 654th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy, Reconnaissance, Special) with
B-24s, B-26s and Mosquito XVIs are activated at Watton.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In France, close to 400 B-26s and
A-20s attack an ammunition dump in Foret de Blois, shipping at Brest, and
other targets, including rail bridges at 10 locations in N and W France;
fighters escort IX Bomber Command aircraft, cover ground forces, and fly
armed reconnaissance in the wide areas of N France (around Paris, as far S as
Orleans, and as far NE as Reims and Chalons-sur-Marne).

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Around 400 bombers, with
fighter escort, hit targets in Hungary and Yugoslavia; B-17s bomb an aircraft
assembly plant and a rolling stock plant at Gyor, Hungary and marshalling
yard and oil refinery at Brod, Yugoslavia; B-24s bomb 2 airfields and an oil
refinery at Budapest, Hungary.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, medium bomber efforts
are restricted by bad weather; however, during the night of 8/9 Aug A-20s hit
targets along the coastal road from Nice, France to Genoa, and during the day
B-25s hit the railroad at Ventimiglia and B-26s attain excellent results on
the Bergamo/Orio al Serio Airfield; fighter-bombers sink a motor vessel in
Imperia harbor and attack railroad facilities in NW Italy; the detachment of
the 111th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron, XII Tactical Air Command,
operating from Santa Maria with F-6s, returns to base at Borgo, Corsica.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s blast AA
positions in 3 different areas of Yap Island; other B-24s bomb airfields at
Boela, Ceram Island and at Liang, Ambon Island, Moluccas Islands. In New
Guinea, A-20s hit shipping facilities at Asap Island and bomb Nabire
Airfield; fighters strafe the villages S of Manokwari; B-25s bomb forces on
the N coast of Waigeo Island; A-20s and fighter-bombers hit troops at Dagua
and near Haur and bomb stores at Cape Moem and machine-guns at Cape Wom. HQ
380th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and 530th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy) move
from Fenton to Darwin, Australia with B-24s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

09/0117Z AUG

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 22:11:08 -0400
From:    Emery Ford <eford@DELPHI.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Vladivostok Lend-Lease

Hello, everyone.
I'm going to excerpt another passage from A WORLD AT ARMS again.
Hopefully, you will enjoy it.  The significance of the Vladivostok route
was unknown to me until I read this book.

Emery
=============================================================================
        While about a fifth of the supplies sent by the northern route
ended up on the bottom of the ocean, the losses among cargoes sent to the
Persian Gulf for shipment to the Soviet Union via Iran were kept at 8 percent.
The problems on that route were the enormous distance, the need to build
adequate facilities in Iran, and the extra burden placed on the internal
Russian transportation system.  On this route, of course, the escorts
were all British and American as was almost all the shipping as well.
        The situation was the reverse on the third major route, that to
Vladivostock and other Soviet Pacific ports.  The Russians had few
merchant ships in the Pacific; the United States, therefore, began
transferring ships to the Soviet flag so that they could cross the
Pacific from the American Northwest to the Soviet Union without escort,
as the Japanese allowed Soviet ships to travel designated routes
unmolested.  In 1942, relatively few ships were available and the
American ports were crowded, but in 1943 vast quantities of food and
other supplies were shipped on this route.  In terms of volume, this was
by far the most important route for deliveries from the Western Allies
to the Soviet Union with about half going this way and less than a
quarter each by Murmansk and Iran.
        This development, not surprisingly, annoyed the Germans.  In the
very years that the Red Army was tearing the guts out of the German
army, a huge volume of supplies was flowing unhindered to the Soviet
Union under the noses of their Japanese allies.  As the volume of
shipments increased in 1943, the level and frequency of German protests
to the Japanese increased as well.  The latter, however, regardless of
their feelings on the subjects, believed very strongly that they could
not interfere with the shipments or refuse to recognize the transfer of
American ships to the Soviet merchant fleet without endangering their
own relations with the Soviet Union.  The converse of no Japanese
interference with American supplies to Russia seemed to them to be no
Soviet bases for American planes in the Soviet Far East.  Accordingly
they regularly turned aside the Germans' demands for action and
simultaneously pretended that the volume was really not as great as the
Germans correctly suspected and in any case included no war materials.
        On the few occasions when the Japanese detained Soviet vessels,
the repercussions were immediate.  The government of the Soviet Union,
with Molotov repeatedly intervening personally, insisted on the release
of the ships and let it be understood that any other action by Japan
would constitute a violation of the Soviet-Japanese Neutrality Treaty of
1941.  As an angry Molotov explained to the Japanese ambassador on
July 8, 1943:  "We are fighting a war and have to have stuff.  We have
lost some fine industrial and agricultural land and we must have food,
machinery, and raw materials, and we are not going to stand fo you
Japanese standing in our way of getting them."  Ambassador Sato Naotake
consistently and insistently urged his government to accede to the
Soviet demands and to refrain from ship seizures in the first place.
Japan in his view simply could not afford to antagonize the Soviet Union
in 1943 and 1944 and was in no position to argue about the legal status
of the reflagged American ships.  Tokyo gave in reluctantly but
comprehensively.
        It is in this context that the obvious alternative to shipping
must be mentioned.  Many of the airplanes destined for Britain were
being flown rather than shipped across the Atlantic; this was one of the
first highly important military missions that the United States
government entrusted to woman pilots in World War II.  Why not fly
planes to the Soviet Union via Alaska and Siberia?  If the Japanese did
not interfere with ships once reflagged to Soviet ownership, they would
be even less likely to interfere with airplanes once turned over to and
then flown by Russian crews.  The Japanese lacked not only the political
incentive -- stopping Russian planes flying from American airports was a
bit too close to inviting the flight of American planes from Russian
airports -- but they also lacked most of the means.  Here was a way to
move Lend-Lease without use of shipping and without danger from the
enemy (though some from the weather).

A WORLD AT ARMS by Gerhard Weinberg, pp.s 404 and 405

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 20:03:40 EDT
From:    Brian Nicklas <NASAD003@SIVM.SI.EDU>
Subject: GEN: Poem by John Magee- "High Flight"

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds--and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of--wheeled and soared and
    swung
High in the sunlit silence.  Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air.
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I've topped the windswept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or even eagle flew
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

- Sept 3, 1941 John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

Magee died in a mid-air Dec 11, 1941.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 23:32:06 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <ben.frank@HIS.COM>
Subject: INFO:YAP ISLAND

After Truk became untenable, Yap was the major Japanese naval base in the
Central Pacific. Lying between Ulithi and Peleliu (the 50th anniversary is
coming up on 15 September--I was there), Yap was bypassed after Ulithi was
secured. Ben Frank

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 7 Aug 1994 to 8 Aug 1994
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 18 messages totalling 668 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. RAF Training Command (2)
  2. US preparedness 1939
  3. Invasion-Mania, USA
  4. Invasion Canada (3)
  5. MEMORIES - a living history project
  6. INF: 50 Years Ago - 10-AUG-1944
  7. WEAP: Horten flying wingsin Museums
  8. GEN: TRIP
  9. GEN: Info on Chiemsee
 10. INF: USN Chronology 08-09-94
 11. Privateer
 12. German Maps
 13. Estern front nightfighters.
 14. small-arms of major powers
 15. [INF] USAAF 10 AUG 44

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 23:37:37 -0500
From:    Bill Smith <bismith@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: RAF Training Command

Actually, Mackenzie King did refuse the ETS because the RCAF would not
have retained control as it was originally proposed.  This comes from a
confidential memo regarding British aviation training in Canada from U.S.
State Department records.  This was July 1938, and King, and I might add
most of the Canadian government was not about to allow the RAF to
"establish, operate or maintain" training schools in Canada.

Canada would train British and Commonwealth pilots if the camps were
under the direct control of the Canadian government.

Now I walk the plank -- I believe, and I know I will be corrected if I am
wrong, this is essentially what evolved (with significant American
assistance by 1940) with the ETS under the nominal direction of Billy
Bishop and the RCAF in 1939-41.  The ETS provided all the primary flight
training with advanced and combat work coming in England.

I might add, our State Department was both surpised and pleased with this
turn of events.  Seems we assumed the Canadians would follow the mother
country's lead, and although were was some concern that this might hamper
war efforts by encumbering a perfect non-combat zone training site, U.S.
State was a little happy to see the Lion's tail twisted.

On Tue, 2 Aug 1994, Ron Babuka wrote:

> >        Maybe I have misunderstood this post.  The Empire Air Training
> >Scheme was negotiated between Britain, Canada, Australia & New Zealand in
> >Nov/Dec 1939. Although under clause XV of the Ottawa Agreement most
> >Canadians went into RCAF squadrons rather than into RAF squadrons, the
> >scheme was not 'doomed'.  It produced tens of thousands of aircrew for the
> >allied cause.
> >
> Thank you Steve - My memory was foggy in that I could not remember if the
> refusal of Mackenzie King to discuss the Empire Air Training Scheme occur
> when first proposed in 1935 or 1939.  It was from 1935 till war actually
> begun that the Canadian PM dismissed the plan.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ron Babuka                                         National Warplane Museum
> Cornell University                                 Geneseo, New York
> CIT - Information Resources
> Ithaca, New York 14850
> (607) 254-6492
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 23:59:33 -0500
From:    Bill Smith <bismith@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: US preparedness 1939

My friend, you have stumbled upon a photograph of the mighty Bell
Airacuda, future ship to win all wars *;-)*!  Those cockpits -- they're
gun positions which were accessable from the main cabin through wing
crawl spaces.  This bird was crammed with so much *state of the art*
avionics that it barely could function due to the incredible electrical
system demands.  It was the first do-all wonder plane in that grand
fighter-bomber-recon-you name it mold as the fantastic F-111.  It was a
nice concept -- fighter speed, bomber strength, the cannons in the
nascels for ground strike power -- but as so often is the case,
multi-purpose military craft are well suited for no purpose.

Actually, the Airacuda had a very *distinguished* war record.  The six or
seven, the figure escapes me and I can't find the file, prototypes were
dispatched along with many Airacobras to Chanute Field to serve as guinea
pigs for mechanic's school students.

Bell really thought they had something with the Airacuda, which was
following in the trendsetting thinking that gave us the Airacobra.  For
the Air Force's sake, Bell soon found its true niche building
helicopters, not combat aircraft.

On Thu, 4 Aug 1994, Richard Kaplan wrote:
> The Bell XFM-1 looks like a much shortened B-29 (cigar shape), with two
> engines.  These are pusher engines, with the front of the engine housings on
> each wing being a cockpit with what looks like long cannon or MGs sticking out.
> The A-18 has a double tail, a longer cockpit (room for 2) than a P-38, and
> radial engines. The Curtiss P-36 also gets an honorable mention.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Aug 1994 00:12:59 -0500
From:    Bill Smith <bismith@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Invasion-Mania, USA

Back from a one-week immersion in Uncle Sam's filing cabinet, and here's
a couple of salvos (I really missed my mailbox):

Resurrecting the Perception is Reality thesis of the general fear of an
Axis invasion, from the Moffat Papers, a dispatch on June 29, 1940 from
Ottawa:
        "The Canadians are definately worried about the possibility
        of an air raid.  They understand that Germany has a vessel
        capable of carrying about 40 aircraft, and if this should
        escape the British blockade, particularly if accompanied by a
        cruiser, she could do great damage."
The feared "great damage" was an assault on the Gander air field in
Newfoundland.  Now you know, and I know there wasn't a great German
aircraft carrier ready to set sail across the north Atlantic -- but
here's the Canadian government rumoring it to the U.S. government, and we
took it sincerely.

One might say yes, but that was 1940, and we knew the tide had turned by
1942.  I submit again, who knew, and who did they tell?  The answers are
not too darned many were that confident until 1943, and they didn't
really tell anyone.  The National Archives has an excellent year-long
display going on in the gallery entitled "Powers of Persuasion:  Poster
Art from World War II."  This I direct with not animosity toward Wendy,
but if you consider the messages being given to the public --
particularly in 1942 -- it is very, very easy to understand that the fear
(not the facts or figures) was real to Americans.

I'll close on a quote from the show's libretto, taken from the Office of
War Information's manual entitled "Government Information Manual for the
Motion Picture Industry."

        "Civilians must have the war brought home to them.  Every
        individual must be made to see the immediacy of the danger
        to him. . . . He must be made to understand that he is an
        integral part of the war front, and that if he loses the
        war, he loses everything."

In the text that followed that quote, the NA publication notes: "Though
separated from the actual warfare by great distances, Americans appeared
within arm's reach of the enemy.  They were shown to be in imminent
danger -- their backs against the wall and living in the shadow of Axis
domination."

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Aug 1994 00:17:51 -0500
From:    Bill Smith <bismith@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Invasion Canada

Yeah, I know the new crime bill has a three-posts-and-you're-out
provision, but it's not law yet.  Besides, I couldn't pass up this tidbit
from the deep recesses of the National Archives.  In our Sept. 1, 1937,
combat estimate for Canada:

"Canada [is] particularly vulnerable to attack from the United States. .
. . The defense forces could not defend Canada against an invasion from
the south along the entire border, but would be almost certainly reduced
to the defense of Halifax and the Montreal-Quebec area for use as bases
of operation when reinforced by Great Britain or other allies."

I'm sorry Sidney, but it looks like you were a defense in depth sacrifice
out on the west coast.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Aug 1994 23:36:15 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Invasion Canada

Bill Smith...
        Interesting, Bill, that you shouldpost that snippet from the
1937 archives. At first blush, any idea of the United States invading
Canada in modern times seems quaint, even ridiculous.   But, wait...
        United States Army War College WAR PLAN RED -- Revision 1939
        -- A Coordinated US Army/Navy Plan to capture Halifax, Nova
        Scotia From Red-Crimson Coalition.
Tactical Strategic Study of the critical area in Crimson (Canada) and
support by Red (Britain), and the best approaches thereto for Blue (USA).

It makes fascinating, if disturbing reading now.  Long ago, of course, one
says...
        But, hist -- what's *this*?....
        1990 newspaper headline:
                'Too Close For Comfort?
                Military Experts Divided On Theory That Fort Drum
                May be A Threat To Canada"....
Ft Drum, upper New York State, is one of thelargest US Army bases, and
lately has been strangely heavily funded for massive construction of
new facilities.  Ft Drum is only 60 miles from the Canadian border.
May be a perfectly innocent explanation, but the natives in the great
white north are a wee bit nervous all of a sudden of their neighbors
across that famous great undefended border.
        You heard something about Ft. Drum lately, Bill?  Just wondered
why you posted that 1937 US Invasion Plan to me....
:-)
Regards -- Sidney.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Aug 1994 06:53:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: Invasion Canada

 >"Canada [is] particularly vulnerable to attack from the United States. .
 >. . The defense forces could not defend Canada against an invasion from
 >the south along the entire border, but would be almost certainly reduced
 >to the defense of Halifax and the Montreal-Quebec area for use as bases
 >of operation when reinforced by Great Britain or other allies."
 >
 >I'm sorry Sidney, but it looks like you were a defense in depth sacrifice
 >out on the west coast.

Yeah sure!  As if the 1937 US Army and US Army Air Corps could invade and
capture anything.  Both were so small and ill-equipped that they would be
lucky to capture and hold the first town on the N side of the border.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Aug 1994 14:53:58 +0100
From:    Tom Holloway <xuegx@CSV.WARWICK.AC.UK>
Subject: MEMORIES - a living history project

A group of us from the ELDERS list on sjuvm.bitnet are
running an educational exchange project for schools
world-wide.  It's called 'Memories of 1944/45' and we answer
questions put to us by schools on the Internet.

I am looking for one or more Senior Citizens willing to join
us, preferably someone who was in England, France and/or
Germany during those years as a non-combattant (such as a
Nurse or WAC or civilian support role).  BTW it's not that
we don't value the part played by WW2 combattants, but we
think the effect of war on civilians and especially children
needs more exposure.

* You will need to subscribe to memories@sjuvm.stjohns.edu
* You will need to answer your email regularly
* You will need to be able to express your opinions without
  starting up flame wars (a soft answer turneth away wrath)

For a list of existing panel members and more details please
write to me at the address below. The project will continue
through until sometime after August 9th 1995.  Thank you.

+-----------------------------+
! Tom Holloway +44 926-888333 !
! t.holloway@warwick.ac.uk    !
+-----------------------------+

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Aug 1994 07:24:56 -0700
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 10-AUG-1944

On 10-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In Brittany, the VIII Corps continues its operations against
     Dinard and St Malo, Brest and Lorient. To the south, the 4th Armoured
     Division enters Nantes and reach the Loire. The XV Corps continues to
     advance towards Alencon. In the Avranches-Mortain sector, the VII Corps
     takes the initiative and the German divisions begin slowly to withdraw to
     the east. In the Canadian 1st Army sector, the 49th Division and the
     Canadian II Corps advance towards Vimont, meeting strong resistance.

Southern France - The Allies open the first phase of air operations in
     preparation for Operation Dragoon, the landing of Allied forces in the
     south of France.

Eastern Front - The Polish patriots in Warsaw still have to bear the weight of
     the German repression by themselves. The Russians ignore their requests
     for even some air support. The patriots ask London for assistance. Troops
     of the 2nd Belorussian Front force the crossing of the river Narew near
     Bialystok.

Italian Front - The Polish II Corps reaches the Cesano River.

Marianas - On Guam, several hundred Japanese have been killed in the mopping
     up operations. This is the last serious opposition in the north of Guam.
     In the fighting for the capture of Guam, 1,400 Americans have been
     killed. The Japanese have lost over 10,000. Only 100 Japanese have been
     taken prisoner. There are various small groups of Japanese left holding
     out in jungle hideouts (one survivor at least will stay in the jungle
     until 1972).

New Guinea - On Numfoor Island, the 503rd Regiment makes contact with the
     Japanese south-southwest of Inasi.

The Homefront
-------------
Meat Rations Change - The OPA have made lower grades of beef and lamb
     point-free effective August 13th, but restore hams, pork loins and
     canned fish to the ration list.

Navy Surrenders Cooper - Jackie Cooper, former motion picture actor and George
     Bender, 24, Sheffield, Ill., another V-12 student have been surrendered
     to civil authorities in South Bend, Ind., on morals charges and are
     released on $1,000 bond.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  (jbd@netcom.com/jbd@osbm.state.nc.us)
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Aug 1994 10:44:54 EDT
From:    Brian Nicklas <NASAD003@SIVM.SI.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Horten flying wingsin Museums

As an additional point to Jorge's posting on Horten wings, the following
is from a news release from the Smithsonian Institution National Air and Space
Museum (NASM) last October.
The NASM and the Museum fur Verkehr und Technik, Berlin, Germany have signed
an agreement in which the MVT will restore and preserve four Horten aircraft
in the NASM collection.  When the work is complete, the MVT will assume
ownership of one airrcaft and will display the other three Hortens for
a limited time.
The aircraft are:
Horten II
Horten III-f
Horten III-h
Horten VI
The MVT recently completed three Halberstadt CL.IV aircraft from WWI,
one which is now on display in Dayton, Ohio as part of the AF Museum
collection, one which is at the MVT and another (which belongs to NASM)
on display at the Deutsches Museum-Oberschleissheim.
The Halberstadts are beautifully done so things look good for the Hortens!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Aug 1994 10:10:55 CST
From:    "ROBERT ROY(Southern Illinois University)" <CA0032@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU>
Subject: GEN: TRIP

  I am planning a "museum/bookstore"trip for next week through Radcliff
KY(Ft. Knox) to Dayton Oh.(WPAFB). I have read that Hallmark store in
radcliff is a great military bookstore, and is the armor school bookstore
open for book buying by civilian 'military freaks' ??  Any suggestions
as to great military bookstores in dayton,other than museumbookstore ??

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Aug 1994 12:35:25 -0400
From:    David Rising <drising@IO.ORG>
Subject: Re: GEN: Info on Chiemsee

Doug, just something short to add to your post about the Hotel on the
Chiemsee (BTW, where can I get a copy of that book?). I was studying
German with the Goethe Institut in Prien am Chiemsee a few years ago.
During that time I managed to get to know some of the local population
and also go to a party at the hotel you mentioned (quite fun!). Anyway,
just this year I was doing some research on Adolf Eichmann, and found
that after the war, he hid in Prien for quite a while. I'm not sure of
the point of all this, except that even the most unassuming and pretty
little town can have its own interesting past. Your post on the pre-war
plans for Prien and the surrounding area just help to reinforce this.
Thanks for the info,
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Aug 1994 09:13:49 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 08-09-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
08/09 Wed. Submarine SEAWOLF (SS-197) lands men and supplies on Palawan,
           P. I.
            United States naval vessel sunk:
             PT-509, by naval gunfire, off the Isle of Jersey, English
              Channel,
              49 d. 11'N., 02 d. 15'W.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Aug 1994 13:24:10 -0400
From:    Ron Babuka <wrb1@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: RAF Training Command

Are there (and has anyone seen) statistics of training aircraft downed and
damaged from ENEMY ACTIONS while on training sorties?  I would be intrested
in both Allied and Axis data per year.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka                                         National Warplane Museum
Cornell University                                 Geneseo, New York
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Aug 1994 11:05:32 -0800
From:    Julian E Gomez <jeg@APPLE.COM>
Subject: Re: Privateer

>Tim,
>
>I seem to recall that the US Forest Service in CO was flying a Privateer
>as late as five years ago out of Jefferson County airport NW of Denver.
>I was wondering if it was still flying.

It is. I saw it (or at least a USFS Privateer) Friday at Douglas County
Airport, Minden, NV, where it was being used to fight the Verdi fire.



"I was a precocious child and obviously destined to be a scientist."

        Dr. Julian "a tribble took it" Gomez
        Apple Computer, Inc.  408/862-1289 or 996-1010
        jeg@apple.com  julian.g@applelink.apple.com

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Aug 1994 13:56:03 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: German Maps

Perhaps someone here can help,... -Al
------------------------------------------------------------------------
WWII German maps

Date:         Tue, 9 Aug 1994 09:18:21 EDT
Reply-To:     Maps and Air Photo Systems Forum
 <MAPS-L%UGA.BITNET@BROWNVM.brown.edu>
From:         hudson@nyplgate.nypl.org

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
A reader here has acquired many German pre-invasion intelligence maps of
Russia. These are maps of the Russian front, ca. 1940-41, published by the
Intelligence Division, Germany-Generalstab des Heeres. The maps are in many
segments, oblong, and have text, biblband, sttreetmaps, directories. Topicla
maps include weather, water, power, commercial themes. He lacks the inhalts so
he doesn't know the total possible contents. The maps are in 3' by 3' wooden?
cartons.  I believe the first few words of the titles are Militargeographische
Angaben...Europaisches Russland or des Asiatische Russland...

Apologies for stream of consciousness version of this, and misspellings. I am
typing this from raw telephone notes.

Any ideas anyone? As to a complete contents list? How many of these were
printed and distributed (apparently to the troops on the Russian front, or
just to the strategists?)

many thanks, in advance for your input and information on this.

Alice Hudson
Map division, NYPL

hudson@nyplgate.nypl.org

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Wild, LAN Mgr.  Father of 1.8815          Voice:          (401) 792-2611
ACC - Lippitt - URI  American Legion Post 102. FAX:            (401) 792-5479
Kingston, RI  02881  NRA Life Member           BITNET:           AWild@URIACC
                                               Internet: AWild@URIACC.URI.EDU

"Duties and responsibilities were woven into the fabric of pre-D-Day living.
It was a self-disciplined, free society that those troops cherished, and they
fought a war for it.

The Woodstock celebrants won a cultural war eliminating both the standards
of, and the respect for, self-discipline.

The spoils of that victory are numerous and devastating.
                                                          -John A. Howard
                                                           Rockford Institute
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 08:39:26 +1000
From:    Derek Monz <gldrm@JCU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Estern front nightfighters.

As the topic suggests fellow lists members, I am conducting research into
the activities of night fighter squadrons on the estaern front during the
secindf world war. Ant help would be appreciated. evene the smallest
thign helps.

thanks in advance


Derek.Monz@jcu.edu.au Msc (Geology) 1994.
disclaimer: - I didn't do it!.

" In the beginning Boeing created the B-17 and they were pleased. It came to
pass that the United States Army Air Corps saw what Boeing had wrought and
they too were pleased, and they praised the big bird that Boeing had
brought forth. And it also came to pass that the Luftwaffe saw the B-17
and they were sorely afraid exclaiming loudly "oh woe is me, oh woe is
me"".
                            ((-------))
                                \o/
                                 |
                               _/ \_

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Aug 1994 18:15:02 -0600
From:    Chip Merton <MERTON@VAX1.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: small-arms of major powers

I am looking for information regarding the small-arms of the major powers.
Specificly, information on muzzle velocity, bullet (slug) weight, etc. etc.
Any information would be helpful.

Chip Merton  in%"merton@vax1.mankato.msus.edu"

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Aug 1994 21:05:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 10 AUG 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 10 AUGUST 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  F-6, North American Mustang
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): 4 B-25s on a shipping sweep spot 2 patrol
boats 75 miles (121 km) ESE of Shimushu Island, Kurile Islands; one is sunk,
the other is damaged.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 9 B-25s bomb the town of
Shwekyina; a few P-51s support ground forces by hitting a railroad station at
Mingon.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 9 P-40s strafe Taiyuan Airfield
claiming 20+ aircraft destroyed; 16 P-40s destroy 4 trucks and damage about
50 others at Siangtan and in the Changsha area; 2 P-40s strafe numerous junks
along the S China coast.

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Twentieth Air Force): 2 missions are flown during
the night of 10/11 Aug; in one, 24 B-29s, out of Chengtu, China, bomb the
urban area of Nagasaki, Japan and 3 others hit targets of opportunity; the
B-29s claim 1 fighter shot down, the first such claim (except probables) by
the B-29s. In other missions, the first staged through China Bay, Ceylon, 31
B-29s bomb oil refineries at Palembang, Sumatra, 8 mine the Moesi River
nearby, and 3 hit targets of opportunity and a secondary target; the first
attack, from Ceylon to Sumatra, is the longest single-stage combat flight
(about 3,900 miles or 6,276 km) by B-29s during the war.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 45 P-51s in Italy during an
Operation FRANTIC mission are dispatched with Fifteenth Air Force aircraft to
escort a troop carrier evacuation mission.
  Mission 537: 175 B-24 and 249 fighters are dispatched against fuel dumps
and bridges SE of Paris; 38 hit Clamecy Bridge, 31 hit Joigny, 31 hit Pacy-
sur-Armencon, 26 hit Sens, 23 hit St Florentin and 13 hit targets of
opportunity; 1 B-24 is lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 19 damaged; 1
airman is WIA and 1 MIA. Escort is provided by 238 of 249 P-51s; they claim
8-0-0 aircraft; 3 P-51s are lost.
  Mission 538: 138 fighters are dispatched to hit rail targets in C and E
France; 5 fighters are lost.
  Mission 539: 1 of 1 B-17s drops leaflets on Brest, France.
  Mission 540: 4 of 4 B-17s drop leaflets in France and Norway during the
night.
  583 fighters are dispatched to hit rail targets in France; they claim
19-0-8 Luftwaffe aircraft; 2 P-38s and 4 P-51s are lost.
  In England, the 788th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 467th Bombardment Group
(Heavy), moves from Harrington to Rackheath with B-24s; and the 856th,
857th, 858th and 859th Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy), 492d Bombardment
Group (Heavy) move from North Pickenham to Harrington with B-24s (the
squadrons fly CARPETBAGGER missions until Apr 45).

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In France, almost 200 B-26s and
A-20s bomb rail bridges and embankments in wide areas around Paris; fighters
escort bombers, support ground forces, give defensive cover, and fly armed
reconnaissance in battle areas and around Amiens, Paris, Cambrai, Meaux,
Dijon, and Troyes; HQ 362d Fighter Group and 379th Fighter Squadron move from
Lignerolles to Rennes with P-47s; and the 15th Tactical Reconnaissance
Squadron and 155th Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron, 10th Photographic
Group (Reconnaissance), move from Chalgrove, England to Rennes with F-6s and
A-20s, respectively.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 450+ B-17s and B-24s, with
fighter escort, hit 6 oil refineries in the Ploesti, Rumania area. In
Italy, the 37th Fighter Squadron, 14th Fighter Group, ceases operating from
Corsica with P-38s and returns to base at Triolo Airfield; and the 94th
Fighter Squadron, 1st Fighter Group, based at Salsola Airfield with P-38s,
sends a detachment to operate from Aghione, Corsica.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): Medium bomber and A-20 missions
are cancelled by bad weather; fighter-bombers, operating on a reduced scale,
hit gun positions along the S coast of France in preparation for the Allied
invasion of S France (Operation DRAGOON).

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-24s, flying their first
mission from Saipan Island, pound Iwo Jima Island, Volcano Islands, beginning
the AAF's neutralization campaign of that island. Saipan-based P-47s hit
Tinian and Pagan Islands. All organized resistance on Guam Island ends. B-24s
from Kwajalein Atoll hit Wotje Atoll.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s attack Yap
Island, concentrating on AA positions, airfields and the town of Yap; others
hit airfields at Galela and Lolobata, Halmahera Island and Namlea, Buru
Island. In New Guinea, B-25s bomb Langgoer Airfield; fighter-bombers attack
Sorong, Manokwari, and villages along the W coast of Geelvink Bay; fighter-
bombers continue to pound forces between Aitape and Wewak; large-scale troop
carrier missions are flown to forward bases, especially on Schouten Islands;
HQ Fifth Air Force moves from Nadzab to Owi, Schouten Islands; HQ 91st
Photographic Wing (Reconnaissance) moves from Nadzab to Biak Island; HQ
308th Bombardment Wing (Heavy) moves from Owi, Schouten Islands to Hollandia;
and HQ 90th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and 319th and 320th Bombardment
Squadrons (Heavy) move from Nadzab to Biak Island with B-24s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

10/0107Z AUG

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 8 Aug 1994 to 9 Aug 1994
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 40 messages totalling 1370 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. small-arms of major powers
  2. INF: USN Chronology 08-10-94
  3. INF: 50 Years Ago - 11-AUG-1944
  4. INF: 50 Years Ago - 12-AUG-1944 (2)
  5. Women in Japanese Armed Forces (3)
  6. Estern front nightfighters.
  7. GEN: Info on Chiemsee
  8. Eastern Front Nightfighters
  9. INF: Japanese Troops hiding out (5)
 10. HIST: POWs (3)
 11. WEAP: Burnelli aircraft designs (5)
 12. GEN: ELECTRONIC BOOK
 13. ARCH: ftp sites
 14. Flying Wing aircraft (2)
 15. Re[2]: HIST: POWs
 16. POW's on the World Wide Web (2)
 17. GEN: Poem by John Magee- "High Flight" (2)
 18. INFO:YAP ISLAND (2)
 19. WSJ--Wednesday (3)
 20. [INF] USAAF 11 AUG 44
 21. WWII Documentary

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Aug 1994 22:20:47 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <cmort@NCOAST.ORG>
Subject: Re: small-arms of major powers

>
> I am looking for information regarding the small-arms of the major powers.
> Specificly, information on muzzle velocity, bullet (slug) weight, etc. etc.
> Any information would be helpful.

"Cartridges of the World" should have everything you want and more.  It's
widely available at stores like Waldenbooks and Borders.

You can also order it out of gun magazines.  DBI Books, the publisher often
runs mail order ads in the common magazines.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 01:21:38 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 08-10-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
08/10 Thu. Organized Japanese resistance ends on Guam, Marianas Island.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 03:58:37 -0700
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 11-AUG-1944

On 11-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In Brittany, the German garrisons at Dinard and St Malo hold
     out resolutely against attacks by the 83rd Division. In the VII Corps
     sector, the 30th and 35th Divisions close in on Mortain.

Eastern Front - The 3rd Baltic Front resumes its offensive in the northern
     sector and breach the German lines south of Lake Peipus over a front of
     about 45 miles, and spread out northwards. Hitler's obstinacy has now
     ensured that the Army Group North will be virtually isolated from the
     main body of the German army.

Italian Front - The first convoys carrying the assault forces for Operation
     Dragoon sail from Naples.

The Homefront
-------------
Fuel Oil Band - The OPA halts issuance of fuel oil rations for hot water and
     domestic heating and lighting to those applicants who have use of
     electrical equipment for these purposes.

Three Convicted In Prisoners' Escape - Three Japanese-American sisters have
     been convicted in Federal Court, Denver, of conspiracy to aid the escape
     of two German war prisoners from an internment camp.

Circus Heads Accused In Fire - Superior Court, Hartford, Conn. charges five
     officials of Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Circus with
     manslaughter for the death of 167 person in the July 6 fire.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  (jbd@netcom.com/jbd@osbm.state.nc.us)
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 03:58:48 -0700
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 12-AUG-1944

On 12-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - Units of the US 1st Army have completely wiped out the Germans
     in the Avranches area. In Brittany, the 83rd Division is still being held
     up outside St Malo and Dinard. The XV Corps, after reaching Alencon,
     advance rapidly northwards towards Argentan. The first PLUTO (Pipe Line
     Under The Ocean) is put into operation, carrying fuel from the Isle of
     Wight to Cherbourg.

Italian Front - Allied forces complete the capture of Florence.

The Homefront
-------------
War Prisoners In U.S. - The Army reports 226,416 prisoners of war are in the
     United Stats as of August 1. The report says 89.5% of those available for
     work are being fully employed.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  (jbd@netcom.com/jbd@osbm.state.nc.us)
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 07:24:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Women in Japanese Armed Forces

I saw the following message on the Soc.history.war.world-war-ii
usenet group this morning and am reposting to our discussion list.
Is anyone familiar with this subject?


I have been reading a book called Wings over the Pacific; The RNZAF in
the Pacific Air War, by Alex Horn (ISBN 1 86941 152 8). In his accounts of
the activities of No. 3 Bomber Reconnaisance squadron on Guadalcanal in
early 1943, he mentions two incidents of interest. The first involved
pilots of the squadron looking at a crashed Japanese bomber, with the bodies
of the crew still present, and he comments that the navigator was a woman.
The second describes ground caches found at the Japanese HQ after the
evacuation in February, which among other things contined women's clothing.

This is the first time I have heard of women in the Japanes forces - I had
only heard of the Russian forces recruiting women for combat roles in WWII.
Can anybody tell me any more about this?

Dave Rogers


+--------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+
| The opinions expressed   |                                               |
| in this post are MINE!   | "My name is Ozymandias, King of Ants,         |
| MINE! MINE! YOU CAN'T    |  Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair!" |
| HAVE THEM!               |                              M. Python        |
+--------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 13:28:28 +0200
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@EVS2.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: Estern front nightfighters.

On Wed, 10 Aug 1994, Derek Monz wrote:

> As the topic suggests fellow lists members, I am conducting research into
> the activities of night fighter squadrons on the estaern front during the
> secindf world war. Ant help would be appreciated. evene the smallest
> thign helps.

I only find a few bits:

In the Squadron/Signal book on the Ju 88, part 2, it is mentioned that
the major Luftwaffe nightfighter units on the Eastern front were NGJ 100
and NGJ 200. They did not have a fixed base, but moved around according
to the needs.

In the 'Soviet Air Force fighters', part 2, by Green & Swanborough it is
said that the Pe 3bis, a fighter modification of the Pe 2, was issued to
the VI PVO Fighter Corps in August 1941, as a nocturnal interceptor, in
the defence of Moscow. These aircraft had a RPK-8 radio compass, a D/F set
and more powerful landing lights, that were also used for target
illumination. The Pe 3bis was also given to the IX Air Corps. Some Pe 3bis
units were later used for ground attack to stop the German advance; in
that role they suffered heavy losses, because their aircraft were not
armoured.

The same book also mentions the Yak-9PVO night fighter, equipped with a
RPKO-10 radio compass, multi-channel radio, and small searchlights.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 13:34:50 CET
From:    "LTC Donnell, Doug" <4atf@PIRMASENS-EMH1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: GEN: Info on Chiemsee

In referring to my previous posting about the Hotel at Chiemsee, David
Risisng asked about getting a copy of the book.  The only place I've
seen it is at the Chimsee Hotel.  I'll be glad to call down and see if
they have any left and if they'd send one to me.  If anyone else is
interested let me know.  If I remember correctly, the cost was about
5 dollars plus whatever the mailing cost would be (not much given that
the thing is only 34 pages long).  Anyway, anyone interested let me
know.  Also of interest to some on the list might be a special issue
of the Stars and Stripes newspaper that was put out to commemorate the
50th anniversary of D-Day.  I believe they have a few at our local
bookstore for $2 each.  I can check on that as well if anyone is
interested.

David, glad you liked the posting.

                            Doug

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 08:02:29 -0500
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <TWATTS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Eastern Front Nightfighters

Derek:
I haven't actually read any of these, but the following books are in my
personal reading list for the Eastern Front.  They might have some
information that would help you.

Atkinson, AIRPOWER AND RUSSIAN PARTISAN WARFARE
Cottam.  SOVIET AIRWOMEN IN COMBAT IN WORLD WAR II
Denny.  NIGHT RUN (a novel, but it's about the women who flew Soviet
     night missions)
Myles.  NIGHT WITCHES (see preceding one)

Good luck
Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University
School of Law
twatts@exodus.valpo.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 09:12:44 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <dan.ford@UNH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Women in Japanese Armed Forces

>
> This is the first time I have heard of women in the Japanes forces - I had
> only heard of the Russian forces recruiting women for combat roles in WWII.
> Can anybody tell me any more about this?

I find this very hard to believe. Certainly women served--were forced to
serve--in combat situations, as nurses on Japanese-held islands, and as
war workers at home. The notion of a woman aircrew on a Japanese army or
navy bomber just goes against everything the 1940s Empire thought about
and stood for. If it did happen, I bet it was one of those incidents
where a woman masquerades as a man; there have been occasional instances
of that.

            - Dan      <dan.ford@unh.edu>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 09:36:01 -0400
From:    Ron Babuka <wrb1@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: INF: 50 Years Ago - 12-AUG-1944

>The Homefront
>-------------
>War Prisoners In U.S. - The Army reports 226,416 prisoners of war are in the
>     United Stats as of August 1. The report says 89.5% of those available for
>     work are being fully employed.
>
>=============================================================================
>


What exactly were POW's allowed to do and not allowed to do occupationally?
 Were Allied POWs used as labor?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka                                         National Warplane Museum
Cornell University                                 Geneseo, New York
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 09:47:56 -0500
From:    "Frank W. Patnaude,
         Jr. ACS x2857" <MIS0028%UMBCADMN.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: INF: Japanese Troops hiding out

I noticed that on Guam, one Japanese survivor stayed in the jungle until
1972. Is there any more information on this case and any others like it?
TIA
Frank.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Frank W. Patnaude, Jr.              | "Those who do not learn from
 Applications Programmer             |  History are destined to repeat it.
 University of Maryland              |  And the same goes for Science and
 Baltimore County Campus             |  Math."
 Frank_Patnaude@UMBCADMN.BITNET      |          - Woody Boyd, Cheers
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 10:15:46 -0400
From:    Warren Thompson <THOMPSON@ACAD.LVC.EDU>
Subject: HIST: POWs

In this country, POWs were used as farm labor (I don't know if there was any
form of payment). Also, I recall in late 45 or so that German POWs, under
light guard, carried groceries to my parents' car from the Ft Sam Houston (TX)
commissary. Author Kurt Vonnegut was a POW in Dresden and he helped to clear
rubble and locate bodies after the Allied fire-bombing, an account of which
shows up in one of his novels.

-- Warren Thompson
LEBANON VALLEY COLLEGE
Annville PA 17003

thompson@acad.lvc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 10:19:09 CCS
From:    Jorge Merino <jem@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: WEAP: Burnelli aircraft designs

This may not be strictly related to WW-II, but I'm posting it since there
was some interest about Burnelli's designs after the note about the Horten
flying wings.

I have to remark that Horten and Burnelli concepts are different. Horten
used a concept known as "Flying Wing", while Burnelli used a concept called
"Lifting Fuselage". The Flying Wing concept was introduced as early as during
WW-I. There were many Dunne tail-less biplanes. Cheranovsky also designed
many tail-less aircraft during the 30s, but the true flying wings are the
Northrop and Horten desings, also developed in the 30s. The Lifting Fuselage
concept was first introduced by Burnelli, as explained below; so, here is
the info I've found about Burnelli aircraft:

Vincent Burnelli started his works on a new aircraft concept just
after the end of WW-I. He was convinced that an airplane fuselage,
if designed properly, should add a significative complement to the
lift provided by the wings, and reduce the drag; so, he dedicated
many years to develop and improve his new concept.

Burnelli's aircraft concept is known as Lifting Fuselage. His concept
was really anticipated for his time. He built many models, together
with many colaborators. The following is a list of the most remarkable
Burnelli designs:

- Remington Burnelli Airliner: (1920) Biplane. The first aircraft to
use his concept.

- Remington Burnelli RB-2: (1924) Transport biplane.

- Champman Burnelli CB-16: (1928) Monoplane, with the typical monoplane
configuration adopted then by Burnelli. The fuselage, with its aerodynamic
section, could surely be considerated the first practical wide-fuselage
transport. It could carry 20 passengers in a 5.49 m long x 3.45 m wide x
1.68 m high volume. The high wing, with struts, and the fuselage were made
entirely of metal. The tail structure was made of steel, and covered with
fabric. The landing gear, with tail wheel, could be manually retracted.
The power plant consisted in two Curtiss GV-1550 Conqueror engines, with
625 hp each one, located on each side of the nose.

- GX-3: (1929) Experimental lifting-fuselage monoplane, which participated
in the Guggenheim competition for safe aircraft. It had some unusual
features, including all-span flaps and a 4-wheel landing gear. The power
plane consisted in two A.D.C. Cirrus engines, with 90 hp each one.

- Uppercut-Burnelli UB-20: (1930) Similar to the CB-16, but with fixed
landing gear, and all-metal construction, all covered with metal. The
power plant consisted of two Packard engines, with 800 hp each one.

- Uppercut-Burnelli UB-14: (1934) Another effort to develop an attractive
commercial transport, based on the lifting fuselage concept. In this
plane, the fuselage, with an aerodynamic section, was virtually reduced
to the wing center section. The fuselage structure, with more beautiful
lines than previous designs, included two tail booms, linked by a wide
horizontal stabilizer, and twin vertical fins with their respective rudders.
The aircraft included an hydraulic-retractable landing gear. The power
plant consisted in two Pratt & Whitney Hornet radial engines. The cockpit
was located over the front section of the lifting fuselage, and the plane
could carry 14 passengers in a 3.55 m long x 3.66 m wide area, equiped
with thermostate heating, ventilation, illumination, bathroom and a big
baggage compartment. The UB-14 was destroyed in an accident, in 1935.

- Uppercut-Burnelli UB-14B: An improved version of the UB-14. The power
plant consisted in two Pratt & Whitney Hornet radial engines, with 750 hp
each one.

- A-1: (1935) A bomber design. Only a wooden mockup was built.

- Cunliffe-Owen OA-1: (1938) Basically, an UB-14B built in the UK by
Cunliffe Owen. The power plant consisted in two Bristol Perseus XIVC
radial engines, with 710 hp each one.

- General Aircraft XCG-16A: (1943) A transport glider, based on the A-1
bomber design. It could carry 40 troopers with full equipment. It was
of all-wood construction. Wing span: 28.04 m. Maximum weight: 8618 kg.
It could carry an alternative cargo of 3992 kg. Only the prototype was
built.

- Cancargo CBY-3 Loadmaster: (1945) Built after the end of WW-II for
Cancargo Aircraft Manufacturing Company. It was entirely built of
metal. The initial power plant consisted in two Pratt & Whitney R-1830
radial engines, with 1200 hp each one. The wide fuselage could carry 22
passengers, and included an additional 19.83 m3 space for cargo purposes.
The passengers area was 8.08 m long x 6.10 m wide x 2.13 m high. The
doors, located on each side of the fuselage, could allow objects up
to 6.10 m long. If a only-cargo configuration was selected, the CBY-3
could transport a 58.62 m3 volume. It was later re-engined with two
Wright R-2600 radial engines. It is the only surviving Burnelli aircraft,
and it is now in Connecticut.

Vincent Burnelli couldn't get commercial success with any of his planes.
Maybe he was another example of those minds who develop too much advanced
concepts for their time.

But his Lifting Fuselage concept was a great contribution to modern
aeronautics. It's validity was demostrated later, with the Lifting Body
designs tested in the 60s. These lifting body tests finally conducted
to the actual Space Shuttle. Unfortunately, he didn't survive to see
this, since he died in 1964.

Here are the technical specifications for the Burnelli UB-14B:

Burnelli UB-14B
---------------
Type           : Civilian transport
Power plant    : Two Pratt & Whitney Hornet, 750 hp radial engines
Max Speed      : 338 km/h at sea level
Cruise Speed   : 330 km/h at 3050 m
Service Ceiling: 6705 m
Range          : 2000 km
Empty Weight   : 4173 kg
Max Weight     : 7938 kg
Dimensions
  Wing Span    : 21.64 m
  Length       : 13.41 m
  Height       : 3.05 m
Total lifting area: 63.73 m2

Hope this helps,

Jorge Merino

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 19:14:01 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <John.Ausland@GMAIL.GAR.NO>
Subject: GEN: ELECTRONIC BOOK

  August 10, 1994

  Someone asked me a few weeks ago about the electronic (disk) version of my
book LETTERS HOME.  At that time, I expected it to be available soon in the US.
However, things are not moving as fast as I hoped.  Therefore, if anyone is
interested, I will be glad to send a copy direct from here.
  Please send any message regarding this by EMAIL direct to me, and I will send
you by return EMAIL an electronic flyer.
  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 11:06:03 -0400
From:    "Mr. Scott Hannon" <hannon@UMBC.EDU>
Subject: Re: INF: Japanese Troops hiding out

>I noticed that on Guam, one Japanese survivor stayed in the jungle until
>1972. Is there any more information on this case and any others like it?

Yes, there was a book called _No Surrender: My 30 Year War_ (or something
very close to that) written by one of these holdouts in the late 1970s
(and likely now out of print). It has been a decade or so since I read
it, but I think the basic story is this guy and a few (2-4?) other
holdouts live off the land after the US invasion. Attrition soon reduces
this to just two guys. Years pass. Eventually they get a radio. They
are unsure what is going on, but notice Japan is still around (as is
the US) and figure its their duty to hold out until Japan retakes the
island. A couple years later, its down to one guy when one is captured
(or wised up and surrendered). It then becomes known to the authorities
(in Japan, on the island, etc) that there is another known holdout in
the hills. So a few folks come thru asking/ordering this soldier to
surrender (this type of pleading had been going on for years, but this
time they *knew* this guy was out there, and they knew exactly who he was).
Eventually it sinks in to this guy that maybe he should surrender. And
the book ends soon after he surrenders and returns to Japan.

There are a couple other books on the subject of long term holdouts, but
I've not read them. The _No Surrender_ guy was the last one.

Scott.
Scott Hannon, Wed Aug 10 1994 (hannon@umbc.edu)

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 11:11:29 EDT
From:    Brian <NASAD003@SIVM.SI.EDU>
Subject: WEAP: Burnelli aircraft designs

That's "Uppercu-Burnelli".  No "t".

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 16:47:00 BST
From:    AGNES DAY <SEL@ULA.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Burnelli aircraft designs

Onoda, Hiroo
No surrender: my thirty year war
Tokyo; New York: Kodansha International, 1974

or: London: Deutsch, 1975

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 12:18:10 -0400
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <sep@TVSS2.COMMNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Burnelli aircraft designs

Thank you Jorge,

Your post was thorough and informative. I was the guy who was interested,
and I did see the last surviving Burnelli craft. The engines have been
removed, and the poor thing sits dejectedly outside the NEw England Air
Museuem. It's white paint is faded and worn. Sad.

I should like very much to see it again, when I have more time to appreciate
it's design.

Thank  you again. I shall save your post for posterity...

                                                                Steve

If only there were as many derrigible experts on the list...(sigh)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - sep@trctc.commnet.edu |"Life may be a drag BUT
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |  it sure beats the only
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |           known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 13:16:10 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <dan.ford@UNH.EDU>
Subject: Re: HIST: POWs

As I heard the story, the Geneva Convention required or suggested that
prisoners be billeted under conditions similar to those in which they
were captured. Accordingly, German PWs from the Afrika Korps were sent to
Tucson AZ where they built or helped build the road up Mt Lemmon outside
of the city. Certainly this was better duty than that meted out to most
prisoners of war, but the Sonora Desert must have come as something of a
surprise to a lad from the Black Forest. (Well, after Bengazi, maybe it
looked like heaven.)

            - Dan      <dan.ford@unh.edu>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 13:18:38 -0400
From:    Barone <m1b@SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: ARCH: ftp sites

        I glommed this from the FAQ (frequently asked questions) for
soc.history.war.world-war-ii.  I haven't tried the sites listed except
for byrd.


FTP SITE-1:
----------
<jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Larry & Kim Jewell)  June 8, 1994>


        Host:           byrd.mu.wvnet.edu
        Directory:      /pub/history/military/wwii
        Login:          anonymous
        Password:       _your_email_address

        Directory Listing:

150 Opening data connection for /bin/ls (131.215.139.234,3498) (0 bytes).
4307.txt*               command.decisions/      pictures/
50.years.later/         conferences/            policy/
D-Day/                  declaration.of.war/     sept_1939/
U.S.Army.campaigns/     gpo_wwii.txt*           special.studies/
USN_wwii/               justice.pap*            speeches/
active_carriers.txt*    national_arc.txt*       treaties/
balkans.txt*            naval_chronology/       wwii-l_digests/
chrono_1938-41.txt*     pearl.harbor/


        June 11,1994: FTP site byrd is accepting contributions of public
                      domain items for the collection. Items  should  be
                      uploaded to /pub/history/submissions.

        MORE Info on 'byrd'

<tryhardz@popmail.mcs.com (James P. Long) June 14, 1994>

Some of the subdir's in WWII are Battle of the Bulge/Command
Decisions/D-Day/Naval Chronology.

The D-Day material contains very detaile studies of Utah Beach and Omaha
Beach, both done by the War Dept. in 1945 and signed by George Marshall
(they're in .ZIP format).


FTP SITE-2:
----------

< jbd@osbm.state.nc.us (John Davis) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1994 12:13:20 GMT>

[I have changed the archive location where I am storing the 50 YA articles.
Please follow the instructions below for retrieving the 50 YA articles via
anonymous FTP. Thanks, John Davis]

The June 1944 50 Years Ago Today articles are now available for downloading
via anonymous FTP.


Instructions for downloading 50 YA articles -

o       The articles are stored by month.
o       To retrieve the articles by FTP,  " % ftp netcom.com",
o       enter "anonymous" when prompted for login ID,
o       enter your Internet mail address when prompted for password.
o       To change to the directory where the articles are stored enter

                "cd /pub/jbd"

o       The file name identifies the month

                (example - may1944.txt, contains the May 1944 articles).

Directory Listing:

150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for /bin/ls.
apr1944.txt     may1944.txt     jun1944.txt
226 Transfer complete.


FTP SITE-3:
-----------


<Stupendous Man <BKOTTMANN@FALCON.AAMRL.WPAFB.AF.MIL> June 17 '94>

        The ftp address for Miss. State is:

                        ftp.msstate.edu

        Also note that the archives are available from other servers
        as mirror files.

        Here are some more network archive sites:

Name=Unites States Military Academy
Path=
Host=euler.math.usma.edu
#
Name=History articles (various)
Path=1ftp:English Server:History:
Host=english-server.hss.cmu.edu
#
Name=White House information
Path=1/.dir/president.dir
Host=gopher.tamu.edu
Port=70
#
Name=Federal information services
Path=1/Other
Host=stis.nsf.gov
Port=70
#
Name=History Archives and Servers
Path=1/Subject/History
Host=riceinfo.rice.edu
Port=70

FTP SITE-4
----------

<BKOTTMANN@FALCON.AAMRL.WPAFB.AF.MIL  Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 13:32 EDT>

http://enterprise.osd.mil/Demo/WWIInet/
Type: WWW page
Access: Public
Contributions: Mail to owner


************************************************************************
************************************************************************
-------
Subject: 9) This FAQ: Archive Info, History & Credits

ARCHIVE INFO: This FAQ is archived & availble thru anonymous FTP &
              thru world-wide web.

        Anonymous FTP:
        -------------

        1. SITE:        rtfm.mit.edu
           Directory:   /pub/usenet/news.answers/world-war-2-faq.Z

        2. SITE:        ftp.uu.net
           Directory:   /pub/usenet/news.answers/world-war-2-faq.Z


        Word-Wide Web:
        -------------

        URL for USENET FAQs:

        http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/top.html

        URL for this FAQ:

http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/world-war-2-faq/faq.html
--
Joe Barone
m1b@ssd.ray.com
Woof woof WOOF! That's my other dog impression.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 10:20:58 -0700
From:    "Office TH325, Extension 3566" <RIEGSECKER@WAYBACK.UPS.EDU>
Subject: Re: INF: Japanese Troops hiding out

>From:
> "Frank W. Patnaude,              Jr. ACS x2857" <MIS0028%UMBCADMN.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
>Subject:      INF: Japanese Troops hiding out
>
>I noticed that on Guam, one Japanese survivor stayed in the jungle until
>1972. Is there any more information on this case and any others like it?
>TIA
>Frank.


See "No Surrender:  My thiry-year War", Hiroo Onoda.  He held out in the
Phillipines until 1974.

John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

riegsecker@ups.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 14:04:19 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <dan.ford@UNH.EDU>
Subject: Flying Wing aircraft

The Historic Aviation catalog came in today's mail. They list Coleman's
book JACK NORTHROP AND THE FLYING WING for half price: $11.98 plus $4.50
US or $5.50 foreign. The order number is 4450N and the phone 800-225-5575
including Canada. Coleman worked for Northrop and adulates him and his
work; he theorizes that the plane flown by Capt Edwards was sabotaged and
that the air force then systematically destroyed all existing Wings. A
lot of theoretical stuff in the appendix on Wing aerodynamics.

            - Dan      <dan.ford@unh.edu>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 13:53:48 -0400
From:    Warren Thompson <THOMPSON@ACAD.LVC.EDU>
Subject: HIST: POWs

For those interested in this subject (and with Internet access to something
called LIBS): I surfed through the Harvard library (unlike most Ivy League
libraries, Harvard does not require a password) under the subject of World
War, 1939-1945 --Prisoners and prisons, American, and found 30+ entries
dealing with Axis POWs in this country.

For those without Internet access, I'd be happy to make up a list of titles
and post it on request.

-- Warren Thompson

thompson@acad.lvc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 13:30:13 CDT
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: HIST: POWs

I just finished a correspondance course for the US Army on the Geneva
and Hague conventions, and it says nothing regarding keeping troops in
climates that they are accustom too--it says you can;t shoot them, and
you can make them work on camp maintenance, agriculture and non-war
economy related projects, but no war work.  It was probably more
practical to keep them south because of the cotton uniforms they wore,
however Afrika Korps vets were kept up north--Ft. Leavenworth, Kansas
had a few AK vets that later became famous in recent days due to their
criminal conviction and death sentence.

I heard on CNN that there is a group of people looking for a submarine
off the coast of San Fransisco.  What is the consensus about this?  TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 14:33:02 EDT
From:    Brian Nicklas <NASAD003@SIVM.SI.EDU>
Subject: Flying Wing aircraft

"Jack Northrop and the Flying Wing" by Coleman is not worth  $1.98.
The personal rememberances when compared to known facts show a multitude
of errors.  I have a hard time with "behind the scene" stories when small
points are constantly wrong.  The intrigue has been covered elsewhere,
and in a better manner.  Take the book with a large hunk of salt.
(Maybe that's why it is half-price!)

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 13:39:03 -0500
From:    Andrea Bean <ABean@UH.EDU>
Subject: POW's on the World Wide Web

Hello:

The Oregon State University Archives have an exhibit on farm labor during
the war here on the home front.  If you have access to Mosaic and the Web,
the document URL is:

http://159.121.28.251

To go directly to the POW portion of the exhibit:

http://159.121.28.251/osupow.html

It's very interesting--it seemed to be mostly German POW's working in Oregon.

Andrea Bean
Houston, Texas

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 14:20:42 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Re: INF: Japanese Troops hiding out

Frank had asked about any other cases like it,... This is the forward to
Onoda's book, _No Surrender - My 30 Year War_:

"Lt. Hiroo Onoda was officially declared dead in Dec, '59. At the time it was
thought that he and his comrade Kinshichi Kozuka had died of war wounds
sustained five years earlier in a skirmish with Philippine troops. A six-
month search organized by the Japanese Ministry of Health and Welfare in early
1959 had uncovered no trace of the two men.

Then in 1972, Onoda and Kozuka surfaced, and Kozuka was killed in an ecounter
with Philippine police. In the following half year three Japanese search part-
ies attempted to persuade Onoda to come out of the jungle, but the only re-
sponse they received was a thank-you for some gifts they left. This at least
established that he was alive. Owing partly to his reluctance to appear, he
became something of a legend in Japan."

(Any typos are mine,...) It goes on to say a that a University dropout named
Suzuki who had already trampled the globe told his friends that he would
travel through the Philippines, Malaysia, Burma, Nepal, "and other countries"
in search of: Lt. Onoda, a panda bear, and the Abominable Snowman, "in that
order". He found Onoda after only fours days out of Lubang, and talked him
into a meeting with officials. One hundred+ Japanese newsmen accompanied the
officials as Suzuki's story was checked out. 'Nothing like being in need of
a war hero...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Wild, LAN Mgr.  Father of 1.8815          Voice:          (401) 792-2611
ACC - Lippitt - URI  American Legion Post 102. FAX:            (401) 792-5479
Kingston, RI  02881  NRA Life Member           BITNET:           AWild@URIACC
                                               Internet: AWild@URIACC.URI.EDU

"Duties and responsibilities were woven into the fabric of pre-D-Day living.
It was a self-disciplined, free society that those troops cherished, and they
fought a war for it.

The Woodstock celebrants won a cultural war eliminating both the standards
of, and the respect for, self-discipline.

The spoils of that victory are numerous and devastating.
                                                          -John A. Howard
                                                           Rockford Institute
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 14:23:04 EST
From:    coon@CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU
Subject: Re: INF: Japanese Troops hiding out

One more that comes to mind is a book called something like "The Lost
Men of Anatahan" about a garrison left behind at wars end.  Its been
something on the order of 25 years ago that I read so I am afraid that
that is all that my memory can drag up.
*************************************************
(Roger) Brad Coon            "Lions are basically
COON@IPFWCVAX.BITNET          scavengers of
COON@CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU    hyaena kills."
                              Hans Kruuk

Kill a lion, save a hyaena!
Boycott Disney lionist propaganda!
*************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 15:16:47 CCS
From:    Jorge Merino <jem@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Burnelli aircraft designs

Steven Pudlo wrote:

; Your post was thorough and informative. I was the guy who was interested,
; and I did see the last surviving Burnelli craft. The engines have been
; removed, and the poor thing sits dejectedly outside the NEw England Air
; Museuem. It's white paint is faded and worn. Sad.

Thanks Steve. I think the responsible institution should setup a donor
program and raise funds to restore this remarkable aircraft to a more
decent display status, or if possible, to flying status. Such a remarkable
and innovative aircraft concept should be kept with more respect. Remember
that it anticipated to the lifting bodies, this means, the direct Space
Shuttle ancestors. I hope this discussion (maybe off-topic), will help
to generate enough interest to allow this last Burnelli's plane recover
the beautiful and innovative lines that really turned eyes around the
world many years ago....

Cheers,

Jorge Merino

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 16:14:30 CDT
From:    Robert Hohlt <rhohlt@MGMSERV1.MGM.SAIC.COM>
Subject: GEN: Poem by John Magee- "High Flight"

Hello all:

Isn't this "High Flight" poem by John Magee the same one that
the crewman was quoting in "Memphis Belle" the remake?

I can't remember seeing the original "Memphis Belle".

If I am mistaken then 1001 pardons ....:^).


Regards,


Robert Hohlt, Jr.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 16:19:01 CDT
From:    Robert Hohlt <rhohlt@MGMSERV1.MGM.SAIC.COM>
Subject: Re: Women in Japanese Armed Forces

Howdy folks,

The current topic made me remember this passage from
a paperback I own:  "Semper Fi Mac, Living Memories
of the United States Marines in WWII", authored by
Henry Berry, pub by Berkley.

The story is "The Scout and Sniper from the Bronx"
and is about PFC Robert Stiles, 1st Marines, 1st
Division, in his own words.

about the 5th paragraph, pp 79-80.

"...McKelvy got ahold of me for what seemed to be a
routine mission.  Stiles, he said, you know where
company such and such is.  Well, they're catching
hell from a sniper no one can locate.  Everytime
a guy moves, he's fired on. No one has been killed
yet, but they will be.  Go get that bastard!

So I moved over to where the company was and started
moving through that damn konai grass and looking
into the treetops.  I was completely concealed by
the konai yet I had a perfect view of those high
trees. Eventually I saw some movement in one of the
trees.  Pretty soon a head and then a rifle barrel
came into view.  I had my rifle sling nice and tight
and my sight elevation was perfect.  I let one go and,
wham, out of the tree comes the Nip.  I'm not bragging,
but you asked me what I did on the island and that
was part of it.  Whenever one of us did hit a Jap
sniper, we were supposed to search the corpse for any
papers or unit identification.
My God, I started going through the dead Jap's
blouse and I ran into breasts!  Much to my utter
amazement, the sniper was a woman.  I don't know what
the records say, but the Japanese had at least one
female sniper on the island. I know. I shot her. ..."

Robert Stiles was around 70 years old when this book
was first printed in 1982.


regards,

Robert Hohlt, Jr.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 16:20:47 CDT
From:    Robert Hohlt <rhohlt@MGMSERV1.MGM.SAIC.COM>
Subject: INFO:YAP ISLAND

Hello again:

My scuba diving buddies and associates that have been to
YAP say that there are several Japanese WWII aircraft (wrecks?)
still(?) at the airport there?

Can anyone confirm this?  Perhaps Mr. Ben Frank?


Robert Hohlt, Jr.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 17:13:42 -0500
From:    Sean Watson <sw7@MAIL.EVANSVILLE.EDU>
Subject: Re: GEN: Poem by John Magee- "High Flight"

On Wed, 10 Aug 1994, Robert Hohlt wrote:

> Hello all:
>
> Isn't this "High Flight" poem by John Magee the same one that
> the crewman was quoting in "Memphis Belle" the remake?
>
> I can't remember seeing the original "Memphis Belle".
>
> If I am mistaken then 1001 pardons ....:^).
>

        As a new subscriber to this list, I missed the original
discussion of this poem.  However, as an English major, I do remember
that the poem quoted in Memphis Belle was An Irish Airman Foresees His
Death written I believe by Yeats (or was it Keats?) about a relative's son
who was killed in the great air war over Europe.
        I can't confirm any of this information other than the poem's
title until I get home and look it up.  However, I think I do remember
the poem from studying it a year or so ago.

        I know that I shall meet my fate,
        Somewhere among the clouds above.
        Those that I fight, I do not hate.
        Those I guard, I do not love.

        My country is Kiltartan's Cross,
        My countrymen Kiltartan's poor.
        No likely end would bring them loss,
        Or leave them happier than before.

        Nor law nor duty bade me fight,
        Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
        A lonely impulse of delight,
        Drove to this tumult in the clouds.

        I balanced all, brought all to mind,
        The years to come seem waste of breath,
        A waste of breath, the years behind,
        In balance with this life, this death.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 18:28:59 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <dan.ford@UNH.EDU>
Subject: Re: INFO:YAP ISLAND

>
> My scuba diving buddies and associates that have been to
> YAP say that there are several Japanese WWII aircraft (wrecks?)
> still(?) at the airport there?

Robt Mikesh shows a Zero at New Ireland, but dang if I can find New
Ireland in my atlas. If Mikesh doesn't have it, I suspect it's a wreck or
possibly a legend.

            - Dan      <dan.ford@unh.edu>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 15:48:26 -0600
From:    Tony Schuler <SCHULERE@UWSTOUT.EDU>
Subject: WSJ--Wednesday

Saw this in the Wall Street Journal today.

"Austrian workers found a US-made World War II bomb in the Danube River
in central Vienna, causing bathers seeking relief from a heat wave to
scurry and traffic to be diverted. The 550-pubd bomb was taken to a remote
spot and detonated."

Any estimates of unexploded bombs around today?

Tony Schuler
UWStout.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 19:17:36 PDT
From:    Jim Brady <brady@ONRAMP.NET>
Subject: Re: POW's on the World Wide Web

---------------Original Message---------------
Hello:

The Oregon State University Archives have an exhibit on farm labor during
the war here on the home front.  If you have access to Mosaic and the Web,
the document URL is:

http://159.121.28.251

To go directly to the POW portion of the exhibit:

http://159.121.28.251/osupow.html

It's very interesting--it seemed to be mostly German POW's working in Oregon.

Andrea Bean
Houston, Texas


----------End of Original Message----------

 "The Turkey War", by David Unger, is a commendable and interesting novel
concerning the tale of some German POWs and even local Army corruption in a
small western town. Vivid, and if memory serves, an accurately researched
account of an actual set of incidents.... For your consideration, while we were on
the topic.

-- Jim Brady

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 17:49:04 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <riegsecker@UPS.EDU>
Subject: Re: WSJ--Wednesday

Tony,

>Saw this in the Wall Street Journal today.
>
>"Austrian workers found a US-made World War II bomb in the Danube River
>in central Vienna, causing bathers seeking relief from a heat wave to
>scurry and traffic to be diverted. The 550-pubd bomb was taken to a remote
>spot and detonated."
>
>Any estimates of unexploded bombs around today?
>
>Tony Schuler
>UWStout.edu

We covered some of this some time ago, but briefly, there was an article in
The Smithsonian Magazine that talked about cleaning up in France from WWI!
The acres of land still off limits, the tons of explosives still around,
and the number of people killed by them is staggering.  I can easily dig up
the article if there is interest.


John Riegsecker                                 (206) 756-3566
Dept of Math and Computer Science               riegsecker@ups.edu
University of Puget Sound

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 21:14:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 11 AUG 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FRIDAY, 11 AUGUST 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  F-6, North American Mustang
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 5 B-25s bomb an encampment area
and underground shelters at Kadu; 4 others abort because of bad weather; 6
P-40s attack a Japanese-occupied temple at Shwekyina and Japanese HQ at
Bhamo.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 23 B-24s bomb Changsha, 16 B-25s
pound Hengyang and 40+ P-51s and P-40s bomb bridges, villages, warehouses,
trucks, troops, and other targets of opportunity in the Hengyang area; 26
P-40s attack targets of opportunity at or near Chuting, Puchou, and
Yungfengshih.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Three missions are flown today
(numbers in parenthesis indicate number of bombers attacking the target).
  Mission 541: 660 bombers and 300+ fighters are dispatched to attack 13
marshalling yards, fuel dumps, airfields, and targets of opportunity, in NE
France and the Paris area; 4 bombers are lost:
  1. 157 B-17s are dispatched to attack Belfort (76) and Mulhouse (76)
marshalling yards and 1 B-17 hit a target of opportunity; 16 B-17s are
damaged.
  2. Of 141 B-24s, 47 hit Coulommiers Airfield, 36 hit Pacy-sur-Armancon and
34 hit St Florentin; 5 B-24s are damaged.
  3. 76 of 77 B-17s hit Villacoublay aircraft depot; 1 B-17 is lost and 17
damaged; 1 airman is WIA and 9 MIA.
  4. 45 of 65 B-24s dispatched hit Toussus le Noble Airfield; 9 others hit
Orleans/Saran Airfield; 1 B-24 is damaged.
  5. Of 220 B-24s, 66 hit Strasbourg fuel dump; marshalling yards at
Strasbourg (65) and Saarbrucken (60); Nivelles Airfield (10) and 1 hits a
target of opportunity; 3 B-24s are lost and 112 damaged; 7 airman are KIA, 7
WIA and 19 MIA.
  Mission 542: 275 of 294 B-17s attack 23 arsenal areas, barracks, concrete
emplacements and heavy artillery posts in and around Brest, France; 1 B-17 is
lost and 37 damaged.
  Mission 541 and 542 are escorted by 356 P-38s and P-51s; 1 P-51 is lost and
1 damaged beyond repair; 1 pilot is WIA and 1 MIA.
  Mission 543: 1 of 2 B-17s flies a Micro H test against La Chenaie rail
bridge. Escort is provided by 7 of 8 P-47s.
  Mission 544: 6 of 6 B-17s drop leaflets in Franc during the night.
  165 of 180 P-47s fly a fighter sweep of the Paris area; they claim 3-0-0
Luftwaffe aircraft in the air and 2-0-0 on the ground.
  28 of 31 B-24s fly CARPETBAGGER missions in France.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In France, A-20s and B-26s attack
bridges at Montrichard, Oissel, Fismes, and Creil/Saint-Maximin, gun defenses
at Ile de Cezembre and Saint-Malo, and an ammunition dump at Foret de
Roumare; fighters cover the assault area, escort IX Bomber Command aircraft,
and fly armed reconnaissance in the battle area and extensively over N
France; HQ 10th Photographic Group (Reconnaissance) and the 12th Tactical
Reconnaissance Squadron and 34th Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron move
from Chalgrove, England, Le Molay and Chalgrove respectively, to Rennes with
F-6s and F-5s; the 153d Liaison Squadron, IX Tactical Air Command (attached
to First Army), moves from Canisy to St Pois with L-5s; and the 353d Fighter
Squadron, 354th Fighter Group, moves from Cricqueville to Gael with P-51s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): The 27th and 71st Fighter
Squadrons, 1st Fighter Group, based at Salsola Airfield with P-38s, Italy,
send detachments to operate from Aghione, Corsica for 10 days

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): B-25s, B-26s, and P-47s strike gun
positions along the French and Italian coasts W of Genoa as the Operation
DRAGOON assault force begins a movement from the Naples area toward targets
in S France.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): Makin Island based B-25s hit
Ponape Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: In New Guinea,
A-20s hit shipping off Urarom and in Wandammen Bay and barges and a radar
station along the coast of Geelvink Bay; A-20s pound Japanese HQ and bivouac
areas S of Sawar, A-20s and B-25s bomb forces at Haur village while P-39s hit
the Kairiru Island barge terminal, coastal guns at several points, and
troops, supplies, and buildings from But to Rocky Point; the 2d Bombardment
Squadron (Heavy), 22d Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves from Nadzab to Owi,
Schouten Islands with B-24s; and the 8th Photographic Reconnaissance
Squadron, 6th Photographic Reconnaissance Group, based at Nadzab, begins
operating from Biak Island with F-5s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 22:16:23 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <cmort@NCOAST.ORG>
Subject: Re: WSJ--Wednesday

>
> Saw this in the Wall Street Journal today.
>
> "Austrian workers found a US-made World War II bomb in the Danube River
> in central Vienna, causing bathers seeking relief from a heat wave to
> scurry and traffic to be diverted. The 550-pubd bomb was taken to a remote
> spot and detonated."
>
> Any estimates of unexploded bombs around today?

Here's a hint.  I'd be more inclined to take a job testing syringes for HIV
by sticking myself with them, than being a farmer around Verdun....

You have the fascinating potential for plowing up a mustard gas shell and
backing over an HE shell trying to get away from it....

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Aug 1994 22:37:17 -0500
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: WWII Documentary

Forwarded from soc.history.war.world-war-ii (please reply to the
address at the end of the file. LWJ
>
>We are currently putting together a hour length documentary covering the
>War in Europe and the Home front from thanksgiving 1944 to Jan. 1st 1945.
>
>The hour will attempt attempt to recapture the history and feeling of the
>era in both Europe and at home.  As part of this effort, we are looking for
>people with interesting stories to tell....
>
>- How was you 1944 Christmas?
>- Were you separated from your family?
>- Was any of your family overseas?
>- Did your family know where you were? or if you were even alive?
>- what happened to your husband/wife?
>- How did the "Battle of the Bulge" affect you?
>
>also (because this is for video)...
>The more letters, photos, home movies, diaries you would be willing to
>share....the better.
>
>Send replies or questions to TBG@panix.com.
>
>Thanks
>

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 9 Aug 1994 to 10 Aug 1994
************************************************

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Status: O

There are 15 messages totalling 567 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. INF: Japanese Troops hiding out
  2. ENOLA GAY (7)
  3. Command confirmation request (7B196A)
  4. Happy "Foot in Mouth" Day
  5. GEN: Letter to the editor
  6. German squad vs. U.S. Squad
  7. [INF] USAAF 12 AUG 44
  8. INFO:YAP ISLAND
  9. WOMEN IN JAPANESE

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Aug 1994 11:14:00 BST
From:    AGNES DAY <SEL@ULA.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: INF: Japanese Troops hiding out

On a similar theme: Charles Whiting's book 'The march on London',
published in London by Leo Cooper, 1992, is an account of the break outs
of German p.o.w.s in 1944 and 1945 and has some interesting stories of
prisoners who remained in Britain after the war.

Suzy

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Aug 1994 07:42:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: ENOLA GAY

According to the Associated Press, 18 Republican and 6 Democratic
members of the House of Representatives have written a letter to
Smithsonian Institution Secretary Robert McCormick Admans complaining
about the way in which the exhibit of the ENOLA GAY, the B-29 that
dropped the atomic bomb on Japan, portrays Japan as an innocent
victim of the atomic bomb.  The 24 legislatures stated that they want
the exhibit altered before it opens 9 months from now to include more
about the suffering the Japanese imposed on the U.S. and Asian
nations during the war.  The 24 members of Congress also complained
that the exhibit underplays the importance the bomb played in
ending the war and thereby saving the lives of many US and Japanese.

The exhibit has been revised once because of complaints from veterans
groups and historians but the lawmakers said, "The planners of this
exhibit ignored many of the constructive criticisms.  The revised
version still does not give a balanced perspective of the events
surrounding the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki."

In the letter, the 24 Congressmen complain that the planned exhibit
includes 84 pages of text and 97 photographs illustrating the
suffering of the Japanese but less than 1 page and 8 photographs
illustrating the suffering that the Japanese inflicted on their
enemies.

Smithsonian spokesman Mike Fetters said, "We're still continuing to
talk with veterans groups and other interested parties and there's
not any feeling by the museum that we can't still make some changes."

The ENOLA GAY exhibit is scheduled to last 9 months and will
include hundreds of photographs and historical descriptions about the
development of the B-29 and of the atomic bomb, the decision to
unleash the weapon, and the damage and suffering it inflicted.

The 24 Representatives who signed the letter are:

Arkansas: Tim Hutchinson and Jay Dickey, Republicans
California: Stephen Horn and Duncan Hunter, Republicans
Florida: Charles Canady and Tillie Fowler, Republicans
Georgia: Nathan Deal, Democrat
Idaho: Mike Crapo, Republican
Indiana: Steve Buyer, Republican
Kentucky: Scotty Baesler, Democrat
Massachusetts: Peter Blute, Republican, the author of the letter
New Hampshire: Dick Swett, Democrat
New York: Jack Quinn, John McHugh, Bill Paxon, David Levy, Susan
  Molinari and Peter King, all Republicans
Ohio: Martin Hoke and Rob Portman, Republicans and James Traficant,
  Democrat
Pennsylvania: Tim Holden and Ron Klink, Democrats
Texas: Dick Armey, Republican

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Aug 1994 08:49:42 -0400
From:    Ron Babuka <wrb1@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: ENOLA GAY

>Smithsonian spokesman Mike Fetters said, "We're still continuing to
>talk with veterans groups and other interested parties and there's
>not any feeling by the museum that we can't still make some changes."
>

I would also suggest purchasing the current issue of Smithsonian Air and
Space magazine.  The Smithsonian submitted a 4 page article addressing
their point of view in regards to the theroy and design of the Enola Gay
display.  I would perfer not to paraphrase it, but to let the intrested
parties read the article and form their own opinion.  There is one opinion
though, that I would like throw out, is that from the article the major
veterans group involved, The Air Force Association, seemed to act
questionably and irresponsibly when the association reviewed the draft of
the display.  As always there are two sides to every story.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka                                         National Warplane Museum
Cornell University                                 Geneseo, New York
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Aug 1994 09:03:00 EDT
From:    "Dave Ausman, Programmer Analyst" <AUSMAND@GUVM.BITNET>
Subject: Command confirmation request (7B196A)

         Georgetown University Information Systems(7-4012)
okay

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Aug 1994 10:15:30 EST
From:    rick robinson <LIBRARY@KNOX-EMH1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Happy "Foot in Mouth" Day

Subject: Happy "Foot in Mouth" Day


 I realize this in not quite on 'topic', but I thought everyone might
 get a chuckle from it--

 :TODAY IN HISTORY

    Today is Thursday, Aug. 11, the 223rd day of 1994. There are 142
 days left in the year.
    Today's highlight in history:

    Ten years ago: During a voice test for a paid political radio
 address, President Reagan joked that he had "signed legislation that
 will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."



 ===>>> I wonder what this button does.....adf;akjlrewq098132|#@($

 Rick Robinson/KD4GNK (TSG/KyANG retired)
 Tape Librarian, DOIM -- Fort Knox, Kentucky  40121-5000
 LIBRARY@KNOX-EMH1.ARMY.MIL / ROBINSR@IGLOU.COM

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Aug 1994 14:38:21 -0400
From:    Barone <m1b@SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: GEN: Letter to the editor

        Yesterday, the local paper printed a letter from Thomas Allison
of Newport, RI.  The letter was probably prompted by the recent Victory Day
celebrations.  I've reprinted it below.

        I should add that the editorial for that day endorsed the attempts
to change the name of the holiday to "Bay Day" (in commemoration of one day
of free beaches at the state parks) from VJ or Victory Day.  The editor is
under the impression that keeping the old name merely serves to remind people
of the animosity between the two countries rather than as a reminder of peace.
The editor continued his argument by indicating that there was already a
Veterans Day and Memorial Day.  He did add that he was not trying to denigrate
the service and sacrifice of those who lived through that period.  I don't
think this afterthought will help his case.  I await the various responses
that are sure to appear in the paper!

        "Pilot's action was typical of World War II spirit"

"To the Editor:

        "The war with Japan was coming to a rapid conclusion and Gen.
Douglas MacArthur's staff had completed the details for the formal
surrender aboard the battleship Missouri.  The massive Third Fleet
was moving into Japanese waters and docking pilots were on standby
to take U.S. Navy's men-of-war through the mine fields for safe mooring.
The American aircraft carriers were ordered to remain at sea in the
event of a last-minute fanatic attack.

        "The occupation forces were well-informed and prepared to make
landings on Aug. 26, 1945.  Gen MacArthur planned that the first landing
party would have the honor of an air drop on Atsugi Airfield while
Admiral William Halsey's forces, augmented by U.S. Navy Bluejackets
would go ashore at Yokosuka.  These Navy landing battalions were common
in the days prior to the formation of the Marine Corps.

        "Foul weather on Aug. 26 caused the general to set the landings
back two days but this did not stop a young reserve junior lieutenant
from the carrier Yorktown.  This rascal was launched as part of a special
combat air patrol in the event that a frenzied group of Kamikazes were
to try to surprise the U.S. fleet.  The war was over and the daring young
airman, with no aspirations about a career in the peace-time Navy, flew
solo to an unauthorized landing at Atsugi Air Station on Aug. 27.  The
lieutenant convinced the Japanese that he was part of an advanced
occupation force.  He then instructed them to print and erect a four-
foot sign and rig it around the perimeter of the airfield.

        "The following day paratroopers from the 11th Airborne landed
6,000 strong and were bewildered when they read the sign -- 'The Third
Fleet Welcomes the U.S. Army to Japan.'

        "Intense research failed to reveal this pilot's name so we
will accept his action as typical of the attitude and fighting spirit
of American men in that long war.  At the time of the attack on Pearl
Harbor the Japanese Army thought the average American did not have the
will to fight and the U.S. would have to sue for an early peace treaty."
--
Joe Barone
m1b@ssd.ray.com
When we go into battle, we like to play music.  Loud music.  We find
that it calms us...

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Aug 1994 17:46:35 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <dan.ford@UNH.EDU>
Subject: Re: ENOLA GAY

Be warned! This is a press release, not a news story.

            - Dan      <dan.ford@unh.edu>

AIR AND SPACE MUSEUM CONTINUES REVISIONIST LINE ON WORLD WAR II
Source: PR      Date: Aug 10, 1994              Time: 11:37 am

  ARLINGTON, Va., Aug. 10 /PRNewswire/ -- The Smithsonian Institution's
National Air and Space Museum continues to ignore criticism from veterans
groups, military historians, and members of Congress directed at its plans
for a 1995 exhibit that takes a revisionist approach to the atomic bombing
of Japan in World War II.
  In an upcoming article in AIR FORCE Magazine, Editor in Chief John
Correll writes that the revised plans for the museum's exhibit, recently
renamed "The Last Act:  The Atomic Bomb and the End of World War II,"
still include a unilateral emphasis on Japanese suffering in the war and
excessive use of provocative Ground Zero pictures and artifacts.  In
contrast, the plans only pay slight attention to events prior to 1945.
  According to Correll, the curators have chosen to use the Enola Gay, the
B-29 that dropped the first atomic bomb in World War II, as a prop in "an
emotionally charged program about the atomic bomb."  The revised script is
still unbalanced and still fails to provide adequate historical context
for understanding the events of August 1945.
  Air Force Association Executive Director Monroe Hatch, Jr., said, "How
can anyone watch the last act of a play and fully understand what the play
is all about?  Such a treatment provides neither context nor balance."
The museum's "Last Act" devotes less than one page out of 295 text pages
to explaining Japanese military activities and atrocities. By contrast, it
uses 84 pages and 97 photos to hammer away at Japanese suffering from the
atomic bombing of Hiroshima.
  While Correll cites some minor improvements in the new exhibit script,
he points out that some of the most offensive passages have been only
slightly modified.  For example, the original script stated:
  "For most Americans, this war was fundamentally different
   from the one waged against Germany and Italy -- it was a war
  of vengeance.  For most Japanese, it was a war to defend
   their unique culture against Western imperialism."
   The new script allows the following changes:
  "For most Americans, this war was different from the one
   waged against Germany and Italy:  it was a war to defeat a
   vicious aggressor, but also a war to punish Japan for Pearl
   Harbor and for the brutal treatment of Allied prisoners.
   For most Japanese, what had begun as a war of imperial
   conquest had become a battle to save their nation from
   destruction."
  Despite such minor changes, the "tilt" of the exhibit is highly
partisan, Correll writes.  He notes that the script is interspersed with
"Historical Controversies," such as:  Would the Bomb Have Been Dropped on
the Germans?  Did the Demand for Unconditional Surrender Prolong the War?
How Important Was the Soviet Factor in the Decision to Drop the Bomb?  Was
a Warning or Demonstration Possible?  Was an Invasion Inevitable Without
the Bomb?  Was the Decision to Drop the Bomb Justified?
  Overall, Correll concludes, the undertone is one of suspicion about why
the United States used the atomic bomb.  In fact, "museum officials have
seemed reluctant to accept the explanation that it was a military action,
taken to end the war and save lives."
  Correll also points out that museum officials have been
mischaracterizing the views of military historians, especially those of
Air Force Historian Dr. Richard Hallion.  Contrary to out-of-context
remarks ascribed to him by museum officials, Hallion states, "The overall
impression gained from 'The Last Act' is that the Japanese, despite years
of aggression and wanton atrocities and brutality, remain the victims.
The culprits in this version of history are the American strategic bombing
campaign (against civilians) and those who directed and implemented it."

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Aug 1994 18:13:35 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Re: ENOLA GAY

It's hammer time,...   no, put away your Thompson, Jim.

Does anyone have an address of who to write at the Smithsonian?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Wild, LAN Mgr.  Father of 1.8815          Voice:          (401) 792-2611
ACC - Lippitt - URI  American Legion Post 102. FAX:            (401) 792-5479
Kingston, RI  02881  NRA Life Member           BITNET:           AWild@URIACC
                                               Internet: AWild@URIACC.URI.EDU

"Duties and responsibilities were woven into the fabric of pre-D-Day living.
It was a self-disciplined, free society that those troops cherished, and they
fought a war for it.

The Woodstock celebrants won a cultural war eliminating both the standards
of, and the respect for, self-discipline.

The spoils of that victory are numerous and devastating.
                                                          -John A. Howard
                                                           Rockford Institute
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Aug 1994 19:21:02 EDT
From:    Gruppen@AOL.COM
Subject: German squad vs. U.S. Squad

                   Tell me your opinion

Do you think that the typical German infantry or Panzergrenadier squad
(Gruppe)of 1944 -45 was better in terms of equipment, training, fire power,
etc than the typical U.S. infantry squadof 1944-45?

Barring support from heavy weapons which would win in battle?


Thanks
 Matthew Gajkowski

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Aug 1994 20:57:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 12 AUG 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SATURDAY, 12 AUGUST 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  F-7, Consolidated Liberator
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang
  P-61, Northrop Black Widow

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): In the Kurile Islands, 4 B-24s and 2 F-7As
over Paramushiru and Shimushu Islands hit targets which include shipping in
Higashi Banjo Strait and buildings and runway on Suribachi; enemy fighters
give battle; the B-24s score 3 kills and 13 probables and damaged; 6 more
B-25s fly an uneventful shipping sweep and take photos over Shimushiru
Island.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, about 20 fighter-bombers hit
Shwekyina, damage a bridge near Manla, bomb railroad yards at Pinwe, strafe a
river boat near Bhamo, and attack troops in the Myothit area; 24 fighter-
bombers support ground forces in the Taungni-Pinbaw area. The 427th Night
Fighter Squadron, Tenth Air Force, arrives at Pomigliano, Italy with P-61s;
the squadron will fly missions in the MTO for training before arriving in the
CBI Theater.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 7 B-25s bomb the railroad yards at
Hengyang; 19 P-51s and P-40s hit targets of opportunity in this area; 39
P-40s attack various targets of opportunity at Chiuchiang, Yungfengshih,
Loyang, Siangtan, and Tengchung.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): The shuttle-bombing mission UK-
USSR-Italy-UK is completed; of the 72 B-17s taking off from Fifteenth AF
bases in Italy, 3 have various problems; the others bomb Toulouse/Francazal
Airfield, France and then proceed to the UK; 62 P-51s (part of the shuttle-
mission force) and 43 from the UK provide escort; no aircraft are lost; 70
B-17s and 58 P-51s land in the  UK; 5 B-17s and 6 P-51s, either left in Italy
or returning there during this mission, subsequently return to the UK.
  Mission 545: 577 bombers and 436 fighters are dispatched to make visual
attacks on the Metz marshalling yard and airfield in C and E France; 3
bombers and 3 fighters are lost (number in parenthesis are the number of
bombers attacking the target):
  1. 276 B-24s are dispatched to hit airfields at Mourmelon (75), Laon/Athies
(63), Laon/Couvron (61) and Juvincourt (52); 3 B-24s are lost, 1 is damaged
beyond repair and 46 damaged; 10 airmen are KIA, 7 WIA and 32 MIA.
  2. 301 B-17s are dispatched to hit airfields at Chaumont (72), Buc (67), La
Perthe (58) and Etampes/Mondesir (12); 69 hit the Metz marshalling yard; 1
B-17 is damaged beyond repair and 28 damaged; 9 airmen are KIA and 1 WIA.
  The 2 groups above are escorted by 386 P-47s and P-51s; they claim 1-0-0
Luftwaffe aircraft; 3 P-51s are lost (pilots are MIA).
  Mission 546: 6 of 6 B-17s drop leaflets in France during the night.
  486 P-38s, P-47s and P-51s attack transportation targets in the Paris and
Brussels areas; they claim 5-0-0 aircraft in the air and 13-0-0 on the
ground; 1 P-38s, 5 P-47s and 7 P-51s are lost (pilots are MIA).
  220 P-47s and P-51s attack transportation targets in NE France; 2 P-51s are
lost (pilots are MIA) and 3 are damaged beyond repair.
  1 fighter group escorts Ninth Air Force B-26s.
  The 850th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 490th Bombardment Group (Heavy),
moves from Harrington to Eye, England with B-24s.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In France, A-20s and B-26s attack
Oissel rail bridge, Corbeil-Essonnes refueling siding, and numerous points
along highways in the Argentan area with the aim of bottling up enemy troops;
fighters fly ground forces cover and armed reconnaissance over wide areas
of W and N France, also escort IX Bomber Command aircraft; HQ IX Tactical Air
Command moves from Canisy to Coulouvray; the 14th Liaison Squadron, XIX
Tactical Air Command (attached to Third Army), moves from Poilley to St
Germain with L-5s; and the 377th Fighter Squadron, 362d Fighter Group, moves
from Lignerolles to Rennes with P-47s. The 425th Night Fighter Squadron, IX
Air Defense Command, moves from Scorton to Stoneman Park, England with P-61s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Almost 550 fighter-escorted
B-17s and B-24s attack targets in France and Italy; the B-17s bomb gun
positions in the Savona, Italy area; B-24s attack gun positions in the Genoa,
Italy and the Marseille, Toulon, and Sete areas of France; 100+ P-51s strafe
radar installations and other coast-watching facilities along the French S
coast; these and Twelfth AF strikes are preparatory to Operation DRAGOON.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): Medium bombers, A-20s, and
fighter-bombers attack targets, mainly gun positions, in the battle area N of
the Arno River and in S France.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): Saipan Island-based B-24s hit
shipping, seaplane base, and airfield at Chichi Jima Island, Bonin Islands.
B-25s pound Pagan Island while P-47s hit Rota Island. B-24s from the Marshall
Islands bomb Truk Atoll while Gilbert Island-based B-25s pound Nauru Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: In New Guinea,
long-range reconnaissance is greatly increased thanks to the strategic
position of newly acquired Schouten Islands bases; B-24s pound the airfield
at Babo while B-25s and P-39s hit Nabire Airfield; other P-39s attack
defenses at Mansinam Island and shore concentrations along W Geelvink Bay;
P-47s support ground operations in the area of Sansapor Point by bombing
Dore; A-20s and P-47s hit forces and targets of opportunity in the Sarmi area
and along the Metimedan River; A-20s and P-39s attack troops at Haur, coastal
targets in cooperation with motor torpedo (PT) boats, and fuel dumps at
Boram; and the 321st and 400th Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy), 90th
Bombardment Group (Heavy), move from Nadzab to Biak Island with B-24s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

12/0059Z AUG

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Aug 1994 21:03:33 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <ben.frank@HIS.COM>
Subject: INFO:YAP ISLAND

I don't recall reading or hearing anything about the waters around Yap, but I
know that the waters in Truk's harbor contains a treasure trove of Jap ships
which were sunk there and also aircraft which were shot down in the water off
Truk. I do know that some of the best scuba diving to be had in the work is
around the reef off of the island of Peleliu. I understand that scuba divers
from all over world head for Peleliu. (Word after ...in the in previous
sentence is world vice work. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Aug 1994 21:07:41 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <ben.frank@HIS.COM>
Subject: Re: WOMEN IN JAPANESE

I am afraid that any scholar of WWII in the Pacific has to take this with a
large portion of salt. In all the reading I have done about the various
campaigns, and certainly Guadalcanal is one I have researched fairly deeply, no
where is there any evidence of Japanese women with the troops, not even from
the comfort brigade. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Aug 1994 21:29:01 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <ben.frank@HIS.COM>
Subject: Re: ENOLA GAY

I am afraid that your information concerning the actions of the Air Force
Association in reviewing the Enola Gay exhibit script is incorrect. I have seen
the correspondence between the Association and the museum, and I must say that
the review was excellent, complete, scholarly, and to the point. I am one of
the Service historians who reviewed the second script, and as a WWII vet, as
well as a military historian, I found much in the exhibit script which bothered
me and which I felt needed correcting. That is all I will say about the matter.
Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Aug 1994 21:45:55 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <ben.frank@HIS.COM>
Subject: Re: ENOLA GAY

The man to write to is Martin Harwit. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Aug 1994 22:12:29 -0500
From:    Bill Smith <bismith@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: ENOLA GAY

Wading in hip-deep once again . . .

Having read the Air and Space explanation piece gives me little solace on
the general tone of what is proposed by NASM.  I've posted a similar
opinion before, let me rephrase it here, that if you display the plane,
that's one thing.  If you plan a display on the atomic bomb, that's
another.  If you plan a display on strategic bombing, yet another.

I do not feel it is unfair, even at this "early" stage, to charge the
NASM with a gross sensationalism and the advocation of a particular
revisionist history.  (To paraphrase the A&S editorial, the whole point
is not to provide history to the veterans but to interpret it for the
generations which followed and, one assumes, requires a different viewpoint.)

The vehicle for this is the public fascination with the Enola Gay.  It's
a mystery, kept under lock and key and out of public view.  Therefore,
many will flock to see it.  With a captive audience, well, you get the
picture.

And we will get many pictures -- lots of photos of victims of the
bombing.  Can we have a hall of photos of randomly selected GIs, sort of
a reverse Holocaust Museum display, who didn't die as a result of the bomb.

My temp. is up after seeing the video at NASM right now which covers the
restoration of the Enola Gay.  It's script is not as blatent as the
excerpts of the proposed.  But a few choice passages:
        Several mentions of the destruction, the known capability of the bomb,
the "irrational secrecy" of training missions for the 409th -- in essense, many
negatively constructed lines about the bomb.
        While these ominous tones are given ample play, there is only one
mention of why the bomb was dropped:  "to hasten the war's end."  No mention of
the impact (i.e., lives saved on both sides) of "hasten"-ing.
        The only two clips of victims you see in this video are of children.
And it seems more than coincidental.  Why don't we see adult victims --
well, there's nothing more pitiful than a wounded child.

That is what disgusts and disturbs me the most about this entire sordid
little tiff.  The genuine hard work involved -- the weapon, the plane,
the soldiers -- and the clear result achieved -- a war ended within a
week -- are lost in a morality play scripted to heighten emotionalism.
The twisted girders, the haunting atomic shadows of humans, aren't
enough.  Show us some blistered kids. And in turn, quite a bit of time is
spent by both sides carrying this argument to greater peaks of frustration.

Said it before -- say it again -- USAF Museum, Wright-Patterson AFB, the
atomic bomb display and Bock's Car.  Tasteful.  Accurate.  Chilling.

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 10 Aug 1994 to 11 Aug 1994
*************************************************

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Status: O

There are 12 messages totalling 444 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. WOMEN IN JAPANESE
  2. ENOLA GAY
  3. INF: 50 Years Ago - 13-AUG-1944
  4. German squad vs. U.S. Squad (2)
  5. Re[2]: ENOLA GAY (2)
  6. HIST: Nisei troops at Dachau
  7. <No subject given>
  8. [INF] USAAF 13 AUG 44 (2)
  9. INF: 50 Years Ago - 14-AUG-1944

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 12 Aug 1994 06:49:32 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <dan.ford@UNH.EDU>
Subject: Re: WOMEN IN JAPANESE

On Thu, 11 Aug 1994, Ben Frank wrote:
> I am afraid that any scholar of WWII in the Pacific has to take this with a
> large portion of salt. In all the reading I have done about the various
> campaigns, and certainly Guadalcanal is one I have researched fairly deeply, no
> where is there any evidence of Japanese women with the troops, not even from
> the comfort brigade. Ben Frank

Well, I agree that it's extremely unlikely that the Japanese Imperial
forces every used women in a combat role, but many women died in combat.
On Okinawa, 2,000 high-school and normal-school students were mobilized,
both boys and girls, and 1,050 died. There is a first-person account by
one of the survivors in *Japan at War* (NY: New Press 1992) by Haruko Taya
Cook & Theodore Cook. She served in the Himeyuri (Lily) Student Corps as
a nurse at 15, and of her group she recalls that 219 of 300 were killed.

            - Dan      <dan.ford@unh.edu>

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 12 Aug 1994 06:34:07 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <dan.ford@UNH.EDU>
Subject: Re: ENOLA GAY

On Thu, 11 Aug 1994, Ben Frank wrote:
> The man to write to is Martin Harwit.

And his address is NASM, Washington DC 20560

fax (not sure which office) 202 786 2835

            - Dan      <dan.ford@unh.edu>

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 12 Aug 1994 05:04:24 -0700
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 13-AUG-1944

On 13-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The US XV Corps (3rd Army) reaches the Argentan sector. The XX
     Corps advances simultaneously from the Le Mans sector towards the
     northeast, reaching the outskirts of Chartres. Southwest of Le Mans, the
     4th Armoured Division and 35th Division are concentrated under the
     command of General Eddy (XII Corps); their first mission is to advance
     east towards Orleans. The VII Corps moves north towards the road
     connecting Vire with Argentan.

China - General Chennault sends a number of aircraft of the 14th Air Force on
     a mission over Manila, in the Philippines. His action is immediatly
     criticized by Stilwell and MacArthur, who insist, on political grounds,
     that the Philippines must not be bombed.

Naval Dispatches
----------------
US submarine FLIER (SS-250) sunk by external explosion, Balabac Straight,
     North Borneo.

Foreign Affairs
---------------
Churchill Sees Tito - Rome dispatches say Prime Minister Winston Churchill,
     whose arrival in Italy was announced yesterday, has soon Marshal Tito of
     Yugoslavia in Rome.

The Homefront
-------------
Three Fires - The third spectacular fire in the New York City area in three
     days sweeps the Palisades (N.J.) Amusement Park, routing 30,000 visitors
     and destroying 200 parked cars. Three persons have been killed and more
     than 100 injured. Yesterday a fire was started by a short circuit and
     destoyed half of Luna Park, Coney Island amusement center in Brooklyn.
     Thirty-five persons, including 12 firemen were injured. Fireboats
     continue to pour water on the smouldering ruins of the former
     Hamburg-American Line pier in Hoboken, N.J. The pier was swept by a fire
     that was set accidently. War supplies valued at several million dollars
     have been destroyed.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  (jbd@netcom.com/jbd@osbm.state.nc.us)
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 12 Aug 1994 07:49:36 CDT
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: German squad vs. U.S. Squad

Having an MG-42 versus a BAR is a hell of an advantage--the German
squad's job was to fight as individuals AND feed the MG-42.  And
according to SLA Marshall, your crew served weapons are what makes the
difference, so I think there is a definate advantage in a German squad.
TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 12 Aug 1994 07:53:21 CDT
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: ENOLA GAY

Is the Smithsonian planning any extra security for the Enola Gay--I'm
sure there are some people out there wanting to throw blood on it, or
attack it with hammers as a symbolic attack against nuclear wars.
Anybody know if they have thought about this??  TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 12 Aug 1994 08:38:24 -0500
From:    Bill Smith <bismith@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: ENOLA GAY

Probably, and at this pace, we'll need a perimeter exclusion zone, bullet
proof vests for curators, and police escort for docents.

On Fri, 12 Aug 1994, Tim not Timothy Scherrer wrote:

> Is the Smithsonian planning any extra security for the Enola Gay--I'm
> sure there are some people out there wanting to throw blood on it, or
> attack it with hammers as a symbolic attack against nuclear wars.
> Anybody know if they have thought about this??  TAS

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 12 Aug 1994 09:37:49 -0400
From:    Warren Thompson <THOMPSON@ACAD.LVC.EDU>
Subject: HIST: Nisei troops at Dachau

The current issue of HOLOCAUST & GENOCIDE STUDIES [Vol 8, #2, Fall 94] has an
interesting article on Japanese-American troops at this camp: Linda K. Menton,
 "Research Report: Nisei Soldiers at Dachau, Spring 1945."

The abstract follows:

"This article describes the experiences of an American Army unit, the 522nd
Field Artillery Battalion, around Dachau in April-May 1945. The men of the
522nd were the only Japanese American soldiers to fight in Germany. This paper
draws on information from interviews conducted with twelve of these veterans
who were interviewed as part of an oral history project conducted by the
Hawaii Holocaust Project. The men's recollections of Dachau are recounted
along with several critical research issues that must be addressed before a
definitive history of this little-known unit can be written."


-- Warren Thompson
LEBANON VALLEY COLLEGE
Annville PA 17003

thompson@acad.lvc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 12 Aug 1994 12:31:00 -0500
From:    Mike Yaklich <MFY@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: German squad vs. U.S. Squad

Tough question to answer in that the German army had become a pretty
heterogenous force in terms of both weapons and trainig.  If you're talking
about an experienced eastern front panzergrenadier squad that may by this
time have been supplied with the MP44 (like, for example, certain units of
the Grossdeutschland) I'd say the US squad would be in a whole lot of trouble.
On the other hand, if you're talking a just-mobilized, high number regular
infantry division like those that fought in the Ardennes offensive (and I'm
not talking Volksgrenadieren here), the advantage of the M1 over the Mauser
98k as a personal weapon, coupled with a higher median standard of training
would probably give the edge to the Americans.  Of course, the question
specified 1944-45, by which time the losses of five years or more of war
had badly strained the German capacity to provide adequate, and especially
adequately-trained, replacements.  The German army was at any rate always
somewhat two-tiered in terms of combat proficiency-- a very good spearhead
of panzer and motorized divisions supported by a much larger tail of regular
marching infantry with horse transport, with the latter units tending to be
of more mediocre quality in terms of training.  If we were talking 1942,
I'd be inclined to give a big edge to the German unit of whatever type,
especially given the previously-mentioned superiority of the MG42 (or MG34)
to the BAR.  On the other hand, it seems our GI's didn't do too badly with
the old BAR, particularly where movement was more important than sustained
fire capabilities, and the clear-cut advantages of the M1 (when it wasn't
jamming) over the Mauser bolt-action in terms of firepower is a factor which
shouldn't be lightly discarded (however unwise it may be to argue with S.L.A.
Marshal)...since I've never actually "seen the elephant," as Civil War
soldiers used to say about combat experience, I'll leave it to the veterans
on the list to argue that one out....


Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 12 Aug 1994 15:59:25 -0500
From:    Stan Fure <trek270@WN.ST.MSC.EDU>
Subject: <No subject given>

LISTSERV

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 12 Aug 1994 21:56:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 13 AUG 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SUNDAY, 13 AUGUST 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  Mosquito, deHavilland
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): In the Kurile Islands, of 3 B-24s departing
Shemya Island, Aleutian Islands during the night of 12/13 Aug, 1 aborts while
the other 2 bomb the Kashiwabara staging area on Paramushiru Island; later 6
B-25s fly a shipping sweep E of the N Kurils during which a fighter is
downed.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 20 fighter-bombers hit troops and
supplies at Mankwi, Myothit, and Tali; 7 others knock out a bridge at
Kyauktalon and damage another near Namkwin; 26 fighter-bombers attack the
village of Pinwe and hit targets of opportunity near Mawlu and Pinbaw; 9
B-25s strike a bomb storage area at Pinwe considerably damaging the village.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 30+ B-25s bomb Tungling, Sinsiang,
and Hengyang, Pailochi Airfield, shipping at Takao harbor and nearby coastal
areas; 3 cargo vessels are claimed sunk; 51 P-40s and P-51s attack trucks,
bridges, railroad yards, troops, and other targets of opportunity in the
Hengyang area; 18 P-40s and P-38s pound Tengchung; 50+ other P-40s, P-51s,
and P-38s attack troops, bridges, railroad tracks, shipping, trucks, and
other targets of opportunity at several locations including Lienhwa,
Siangsiang, Sinshih, Puchou, Tungyangtun, Hengshan, Weichow Island, Luichow
Peninsula, Tingka, Mangshih, Nanchang, Puchi, and along the Yunglo River.
R.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 4 missions are flown:
  Mission 548: 1,264 bombers and 131 fighters are dispatched to make visual
attacks in support of ground forces on coastal batteries and transportation
choke points between Le Havre and Paris; 12 bombers are lost:
  1. Of 798 B-17s, 634 hit battle area targets, 69 hit Le Manoir Bridge and
54 hit targets of opportunity; 7 B-17s are lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and
484 damaged; 2 airmen are KIA, 8 WIA and 63 MIA.
  2. Of 466 B-24s, 347 hit battle area targets, 69 hit Ile de Cezembre and 34
hit St Malo; 5 B-24s are lost; 1 airman is KIA, 4 WIA and 50 MIA.
  The 2 forces above are escorted by 131 of 136 P-51s.
  Mission 549: 1 APHRODITE B-17 with 2,000-pounds (907 kgs) of bombs is
launched against Le Havre; B-17, P-38 and Mosquito support aircraft assist;
the target is missed and the Mosquito is destroyed by the exploding bombs.
  Mission 550: 2 of 4 B-17s fly a Micro H test mission to La Chenaie rail
junction.
  Mission 551: 6 of 6 B-17s drop leaflets in France, the Netherlands and
Belgium during the night.
  36 B-24s fly CARPETBAGGER missions during the night.
  844 P-38s, P-47s and P-51s fly fighter-bomber missions against
transportation targets in the Seine River area; they claim 0-0-1 Luftwaffe
aircraft on the ground; 4 P-47s and 9 P-51s are lost, 4 P-47s are damaged
beyond repair and 1 P-47 is damaged; 1 pilot is KIA, 1 WIA and 13 MIA.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In France, around 575 B-26s and
A-20s with fighter escort bomb fuel storage at Les Buissons, points along
highways around Lisieux and SE to Rugles with the aim of containing the enemy
in the Falaise pocket, railroad targets at Peronne, Doullens, and Corbeil-
Essonnes; fighters cover ground forces, and fly armed reconnaissance in the
Alencon, Le Mans, Domfront, and Chartres areas; about 125 C-47s fly ferry and
evacuation missions; during the night of 13/14 Aug, 28 B-26s bomb the Foret
de Halouze ammunition dump and bivouac area; and the 378th Fighter Squadron,
362d Fighter Group, moves from Ligneroller to Rennes with P-47s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Almost 500 B-17s and B-24s
attack gun positions around Genoa, Italy and Toulon, and Sete, France, and
strike at bridges at Pont-Saint-Esprit, Avignon, Orange, and Crest, France;
31 P-38s dive-bomb Montelimar Airfield; other fighters fly 180+ sorties in
support of the bombers; and 28 bombers hit military installations at Pec,
Yugoslavia.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In France, medium bombers blast
coastal defense guns in the Marseille area while A-20s during the night of
12/13 Aug attack targets along the Monaco-Toulon road, and fighter-bombers
hit guns and barracks in the area; and fighters strafe airfields at Les
Chanoines, Montreal, Avignon, La Jasse, Istres-Le-Tube, Valence, and Bergamo.
In Italy, A-20s attack explosive stores in the battle area in the Arno River
Valley.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: Bad  weather in the
SWPA curtails operations. In New Guinea, B-24s bomb bivouacs and supply dumps
at Manokwari; bombers hit a Cape Wom storage area while P-39s cooperate with
PT boats to hit Dagua personnel areas and Suain coastal positions; P-47s and
P-39s hit Cape Wom, troops at Ulban, Matapau, and Suain, and support ground
forces at Sarmi; and C-47s complete nearly 90 missions to Owi Island and
other forward bases.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

13/0158Z AUG

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 12 Aug 1994 22:45:05 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [INF] USAAF 13 AUG 44

'Blue skies to our comrades travelling tonite and tomorrow night. It's
Washington by Sunday morning.

Oh, Big Joe,... DRB says hey. I gave him your addr. Expect another game
prop of what-ever-it-was, Infamy or something like that.

God speed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Wild, LAN Mgr.  Father of 1.8815          Voice:          (401) 792-2611
ACC - Lippitt - URI  American Legion Post 102. FAX:            (401) 792-5479
Kingston, RI  02881  NRA Life Member           BITNET:           AWild@URIACC
                                               Internet: AWild@URIACC.URI.EDU

"Duties and responsibilities were woven into the fabric of pre-D-Day living.
It was a self-disciplined, free society that those troops cherished, and they
fought a war for it.

The Woodstock celebrants won a cultural war eliminating both the standards
of, and the respect for, self-discipline.

The spoils of that victory are numerous and devastating.
                                                          -John A. Howard
                                                           Rockford Institute
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 12 Aug 1994 20:15:40 -0700
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 14-AUG-1944

On 14-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In Brittany, the German resistance in St Malo and Dinard
     continues. The XV Corps (3rd Army) moves east from Argentan towards
     Dreux. The 7th Armoured Division and the 5th Division (XX Corps) moves
     toward Chartres. The XII Corps continues advancing towards Orleans. The
     Canadian 2nd Division gets within 5.5 miles of Falaise, which has been
     heavily bombed by the British (the RAF has dropped 4,000 tons of bombs on
     Falaise, which has been virtually leveled).

Eastern Front - In Warsaw, the RAF has begun dropping supplies and ammunition
     to the Polish patriots.

Mediterranean - The convoys for Operation Dragoon continue towards the south
     coast of France after a stopover in Corsica.

Naval Dispatches
----------------
US LST-921 sunk by submarine torpedo, English Channel.

The Homefront
-------------
Kennedy's Son Killed - Joseph P. Kennedy Jr., 29, son of the former U.S.
     ambassador to Great Britain, was lost in action on August 12th in the
     European war theater on a special air mission, the Navy announces.

Women Spy Sentenced - Mrs. Velvalee Dickinson, who pleaded guilty to violation
     of censorship regulations in sending military information to Japanese
     agents, received a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison and $10,000
     fine in Federal Court, New York.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  (jbd@netcom.com/jbd@osbm.state.nc.us)
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 11 Aug 1994 to 12 Aug 1994
*************************************************

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Status: O

There are 7 messages totalling 303 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. INF: USN Chronology 08-13-94
  2. WOMEN IN JAPANESE
  3. WEAP: British Naval Aircraft (was Seafire)
  4. To Moscow for the 50th? (2)
  5. BOOK:  Cobras Over the Tundra
  6. [INF] USAAF 14 AUG 44

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 13 Aug 1994 04:21:49 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 08-13-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
08/13 Sun.  United States naval vessel sunk:
             Submarine FLIER (SS-250), by external explosion, Balabac
              Strait, North Borneo.
            Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             Submarine chaser No. 12, by submarine BLUEGILL (SS-242),
              Philippine Islands area,
              06 d. 17'N., 126 d. 09'E.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 13 Aug 1994 08:28:16 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <ben.frank@HIS.COM>
Subject: Re: WOMEN IN JAPANESE

You are absolutely correct. The Thirty-second Army on Okinawa conscripted a
home guard of native Okinawans called the boetai (sp) who were poorly armed and
hardly trained and caused them to go into combat with the Tenth Army, and their
losses were great, as were the losses of Okinawan civilians who were in the
path of the battle. It might be mentioned that the Okinawans were not
particularly enamored of the Japanese, whom they considered as occupiers, for
although Okinawa was a province of greater Japan, it had its own culture, etc.
It is estimated the 100,000 Okinawans lost their lives in the battle, many of
whom were sealed up in caves that the American forces suspected were holding
Japanese soldiers. Whenever a cave was discovered holding civilians, the
Marines and army troops just about threw down their weapons to help evacuate
these civilians to safety in the rear. I was there and I saw it. Needless to
say, the Okinawans were in dread fear of rape and losing their lives to these
American "devils," which Japanese propaganda had painted us as being. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 13 Aug 1994 09:49:46 EDT
From:    Robert E George <regeorge@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject: WEAP: British Naval Aircraft (was Seafire)

     Correlli Barnett in "Engage the Enemy More Closely" points out
that the Fleet Air Arm (the Royal Navy's 'air force') was very underdeveloped
because of the control that the RAF exerted prior to 1937. The RAF thought
in terms of strategic bombardment, and so gave carrier-based aviation
short shrift. I can't recall the particulars, but the RAF had responsibility
for some procurement aspects for carrier a/c prior to 1937.
 Hence, by 1939 the FAA's a/c were a distant third in quality
behind those of the U.S.N. and I.J.N.

     Nor was it merely a matter of weak carrier-based aviation: in general,
British air resources were focused on bombing and home defence rather
than maritime aviation, which caused even land-based maritime aviation
(e.g., Coastal Command) to suffer.

     Barnett makes the point that some of the air-minded younger RN officers
at the end of the 1st World War opted to go to the RAF. This deprived
the RN of some of its air enthusiasts, with unfortunate consequences.

     I tend to think that British maritime aviation never got the resources
it deserved: even during the Battle of the Atlantic Coastal Command had
to fight tooth-and-nail for the long-range a/c earmarked for Bomber Command.

     Rob George
     regeorge@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 13 Aug 1994 06:51:51 -0700
From:    Eric Fenster <efenster@IGC.APC.ORG>
Subject: To Moscow for the 50th?

As you may know, I organize travel courses to study Russia's
political and economic situation.

I am now starting to plan for 1995. I am thinking about doing
a three-week course beginning early in May so that we would be
in Moscow during commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the
end of WW2.  While most of the rest of the time would, as usual,
deal with Russia's contemporary situation, there would be stress
on the historical aspect during part of the stay and, I expect,
appropriate contacts with veterans.

I would like to know how much interest there might be among you and
your friends and associates in participating in such a program.

Thanks,
Eric        efenster@igc.apc.org

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 13 Aug 1994 19:00:04 -0500
From:    GEORGE BAUER <BAUER@RCKHRST1.BITNET>
Subject: BOOK:  Cobras Over the Tundra

Has anyone heard anything about the book COBRAS OVER THE TUNDRA.
According to my information it was published by Arktika Publishers in
Fairbanks, but I can find no other information.  None of the libraries
I have access to have it, and it is not listed in BOOKS IN PRINT.

Any help?

Thanks..


  =========================================================================
  | DR.  GEORGE R. BAUER             | INTERESTS:                         |
  |                                  | Computers in Business & Education. |
  | Recently returned from my second | Education:  Curriculum development.|
  |   extended stay in Prague.       |    International Education, TEFL.  |
  | Working on second book about     | Central Europe:  Post revolution   |
  |   Prague and new Czech Republic  |    economic, social, political     |
  |   and a book about the B-25      |    problems and opportunities.     |
  |   in WWII.                       | B-25 in WWII.                      |
  | E-Mail:                          | Free lance writing and editing.    |
  |   USA:  BAUER@RCKHRST1.BITNET    | Stamp collecting.                  |
  =========================================================================

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 13 Aug 1994 20:16:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 14 AUG 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
MONDAY, 14 AUGUST 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  Beaufighter, Bristol
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  Mosquito, deHavilland
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, B-25s bomb Mohnyin and Indaw; 18
P-51s pound targets in the Myothit area; 46 other fighter-bombers hit various
N Burma targets including Naba junction, the active area near Pinbaw, a
building and targets of opportunity at Thaikwagon, a command post at Hopin,
a motor pool at Nansiaung Forest, ammunition and other supplies in the
Mohnyin area, and bridges S of Bhamo one of which is slightly damaged; and
the 2d Troop Carrier Squadron, 443d Troop Carrier Group, moves from Dinjan,
India to Shingbwiyang with C-47s.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 24 B-25s blast Lungling while 16
P-40s hit a fortified pass and targets of opportunity to the S; 12 B-25s bomb
the railroad yards at Siangtan; 31 P-40s and P-51s hit the railroad yards,
river shipping, and general targets of opportunity at Hengyang; 13 P-40s
attack Tengchung; 13 others hit trucks, troops, and rivercraft at Pailochi
and Sinying and 4 bomb a bridge at Hsenwi.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 552: 1,183 bombers and 429
fighters are dispatched to attack 9 airfields, 2 aero engine factories, 1 oil
plant, 2 bridges, 2 rail junctions and other secondary and targets of
opportunity in SW Germany, E France, and the Bordeaux, France region; 2
bombers and 1 fighter are lost (numbers in parenthesis indicate number of
bombers attacking the target):
  1. Of 376 B-24s dispatched to France, the following airfields are hit:
Lyon/Bron (108), Dijon/Longvi (83) and Dole/Evaux (70); bridges hit are at
Anizy (46) and Fismes (34); and 12 B-24s hit Liart rail junction and 1 hits a
target of opportunity; 1 B-24 is damaged beyond repair and 32 are damaged; 2
airmen are WIA. Escort is provided by 92 P-47s and P-51s without loss.
  2. 77 B-24s are dispatched to hit French rail junctions at Saintes (38) and
Angouleme (38) without loss. Escort is provided by 40 of 42 P-51s without
loss.
  3. 349 B-17s dispatched to Germany hit Ludwigshafen (144), Mannheim (110)
and Mannheim/Sandhofen Airfield (72); 4 others hit targets of opportunity; 2
B-17s are lost and 232 damaged; 8 airmen are WIA and 18 MIA. Escort is
provided by 88 of 99 P-51s without loss.
  4. 381 B-17s dispatched to Germany hit airfields at Hagenau (92), Metz/
Frascaty (72), Florennes (24) and Chievres (9); and Stuttgart/Echterdingen
(72), Kaisereslautern (46), Sindelfingen (12), Trier (10) and targets of
opportunity (16); 20 B-17s are damaged. Escort is provided by 168 of 193
P-51s; they claim 10-0-11 Luftwaffe aircraft; 1 P-51 is lost (pilot is MIA).
  Mission 553: 6 of 6 B-17s drop leaflets in France during the night; they
claim 1-0-0 Luftwaffe aircraft. 37 B-24s fly CARPETBAGGER missions in France;
1 B-24 is lost.
  136 P-38s and P-47s fly fighter-bomber missions in the Paris area; they
claim 3-0-0 aircraft; 1 P-38 and 2 P-47s are lost, 1 P-47 is damaged beyond
repair and 2 P-47s are damaged; 2 pilots are MIA.
  The 36th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), VIII Air Force Composite Command,
moves from Harrington to Cheddington, England with B-24s; the squadron will
convert from CARPETBAGGER to ECM missions over Europe.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In France, A-20s and B-26s with
fighter escort hit several highway and rail bridges, junctions and sidings
mostly beyond the battlelines to delay and complicate the German retreat;
fighters fly armed reconnaissance over the Falaise, Broglie, and Chartres
areas, and support ground forces, especially 7 armored and infantry divisions,
over wide areas of N and W France; a XIX Tactical Air Command squadron
uniquely effects the surrender of a number of German ground troops, Germans
on roads being strafed by the squadron NE of Carrouges wave white flags,
whereupon the planes buzz the road and shepherd the enemy troops into a
column which then proceeds to US lines to surrender; HQ 358th Fighter Group
and the 365th, 366th and 367th Fighter Squadrons move from Cretteville to
Pontorson with P-47s; HQ 367th Fighter Group moves from Beuzeville to
Cricqueville; and the 355th Fighter Squadron, 354th Fighter Group, moves from
Cricqueville to Gael with P-51s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 540 B-24s and B-17s bomb gun
positions in the Toulon, France and Genoa, Italy areas as the Operation
DRAGOON convoy heads for the French Mediterranean coast; 145 P-38s and P-51s
strafe radar installations at several coastal points.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In France, medium bombers hit
coastal defenses while fighter-bombers pound various gun positions, tracks,
enemy HQ, and targets of opportunity in the Toulon-Nice area; fighters strafe
radar installations and targets of opportunity along the S coast as Operation
DRAGOON forces approach. In Italy during the night of 13/14 Aug, A-20s hit
targets of opportunity in the W Po Valley and a fuel dump N of the battle
area; and the 416th Night Fighter Squadron, 62d Fighter Wing, based at
Pomigliano with Beaufighters and Mosquitos, sends detachments to operate from
Alghero, Sicily and Borgo, Corsica.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): The Seventh Air Force is
reorganized as a "mobile tactical airforce" retaining only units that will
function in the combat area; the VII Bomber Command includes the 11th, 30th
and 494th Bombardment Groups (Heavy), and the 41st Bombardment Group
(Medium); the VII Fighter Command includes the 15th, 21st (in Hawaii) and
318th Fighter Groups and the 6th Night Fighter Squadron; the recently
activated VII Air Service Area Command is composed of 4 service groups; and
the 9th Troop Carrier and 28th Photographic Reconnaissance Squadrons assigned
directly to HQ Seventh Air Force.
  Saipan-based B-24s bomb Iwo Jima Island and B-25s hit Pagan Island and
P-47s hit Rota Island. From the Marshall Islands, B-25s hit Ponape Island and
B-24s bomb Wotje Atoll.
  HQ VII Bomber Command moves from Kwajalein Atoll to Saipan Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-25s and B-24s
attack Ternate Island, Moluccas Islands, AA positions, oil dumps, barracks,
supply areas, and other targets throughout the Halmahera Islands. In New
Guinea, B-24s pound the airfield at Babo while A-20s and fighter-bombers,
along with Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) aircraft, blasting bivouac, and
troops at Terabu, Kaiten, and Wewak Point; and the 33d Bombardment Squadron
(Heavy), 22d Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves from Nadzab to Owi, Schouten
Islands with B-24s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

14/0018Z AUG

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 13 Aug 1994 21:36:27 EDT
From:    John Sloan <JohnS426@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: To Moscow for the 50th?

HI Eric,
You have a great idea. There will certainly be commemorations on the 9th of
May. I am trying to get the specific schedule from the Russian military now.
I have been told that the Russian Navy will also be having a special event on
that day in St. Petersburg area.  Since they will also be commemorating the
300 anniversary of the founding of the Russian Navy next year, we know there
will be special opportunitites for naval meetings and visits etc.  Have been
offered special tours in the Severomorsk, Arkhangel, Murmansk region and to
Sevastopol - Balaklava as well.
best
john sloan

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 12 Aug 1994 to 13 Aug 1994
*************************************************

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To: Recipients of WWII-L digests <WWII-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Status: O

There are 15 messages totalling 576 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. DOC: Re: "Interview with Ralph T. Briggs...Winds Message"---
  2. DOC:Re: "Interview with Ralph T. Briggs...Winds Message"--
  3. DDay-CD Rom
  4. INF: 50 Years Ago - 14-AUG-1944 (3)
  5. 50TH: WAR IS NOT ALL COMBAT
  6. HIST: POWs
  7. WEAP Japanese Cruiser Names
  8. war's end in japan
  9. INF: 50 Years Ago - 15-AUG-1944
 10. German squad vs. U.S. Squad (2)
 11. 50TH: WAR IS NOT ALL...
 12. Re[2]: German squad vs. U.S. Squad

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 13 Aug 1994 23:37:45 EST
From:    "CARL WERNKE (TCWERNC@VCCSCENT)" <TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET>
Subject: DOC: Re: "Interview with Ralph T. Briggs...Winds Message"---

                    Congressional Investigation Pearl Harbor Attack (Pt 1 of 2)
 X-TO: WWII-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
 TO: Multiple Recipients of List WWII-L (WWII-L@UBVM.BITNET)

                         DOCUMENT

 Congressional Investigation Pearl Harbor Attack, pages 154-155:

     From: Tokyo
     To: Washington
     19 November 1941
     (J19) [A high grade code system later replaced by PA-K2, a code much
            simpler for CDR Rocheford and his men to break]

     Circular #2353

 Regarding the broadcast of a special message in an emergency.
 In case of emergency (danger of cutting off our diplomatic relations), and the
 cutting off of internationalcommunications, the following warning will be
 added in the middle of the daily Japanese language short wave news broadcast.
         (1) In case of a Japan-U.S. relations in danger: HIGASHI NO KAZEAME
             [East Wind rain]
         (2) Japan-U.S.S.R. relations: KITA NO KAZE KUMORI [North Wind cloudy]

         (3) Japan-British relations: NISHI NO KAZE HARE [West Wind clear]

 This signal will be given in the middle and at the end as a weather forcast
 and last sentence will be repeated twice. When this is heard please destroy
 all code papers, etc.This is asyet to be a completely secret arrangement.
                 Forward as urgent intelligence
 25432
 JD-1:6875       (Y) Navy Trans.11-28-41 (S-TT)

 The above from p.A-81 of the "Magic" Background of Pearl Harbor, Vol. IV
 appenddix (8 Vols., Washington, D.C.: Department of Defense, 1977).

          From:Tokyo
          To: Washington
          19 November 1941
          (J19)
          Circular #2354

 When our diplomatic relations are becoming dangerous, we will add the
 following at the beginning and end of our general intelligence broadcasts:
          (1) If it is Japan-U.S. relations, "HIGASHI."
          (2) Japan-Russia relation, "KITA."
          (3) Japan-British relations, (including,Thai, Malaya, and Netherland
              East Indies N.E.I.); "NISHI"

 The abve will be repeated five times and included at beginning and end.
 Relay to Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires, Mexico City, San Francisco.

 25392
 JD-1: 6850                                 (Y) Navy Trans. 11-26-41 (S)

 The following from National Archives Record Group No.457 13W3 4/27/C Box 14
                                                                 SRH-051

 Interview with Mr.Ralph T.Briggs [CWO,USN (ret)

                            13 January 1977

                        Declassified per Sec.3, E.O. 12035 by Director,
                          NSA/Chief,CSS        Date 11 MAR 80

 After considerable recollection over the years since December 7,1941, I have
 finally reached the conclusion that I am the sole individual who initially
 intercepted and handled the winds code executive tip-off...assigned as one
 _____________ watch supervisors.In fact, I was chief watch supervisor and a
 Kata Kana instructor.
 Although we had been anticipating the tip-off code phrase for impending
 diplomatic break with Great Britain, that is the code phrase NISHI NO KAZE
 HARE---West Wind Clear---I soon discovered I had copied HAGASHI NO KAZEAME,
 which meant in Japanese, East Wind Rain. And also meant a break between the
 United States and Japan.

 Now, not withstanding the foregoing, my intercept on 4 December appears to
 remain the single and only intercept of the true winds execute message
 signifying a break between the United States and Japan prior to the attack on
 Pearl Harbor. It should be also noted that after the attack had commenced at
 0730 a.m., Honolulu time, at 0800, precisely on schedule, Tokyo came up on its
 regular news broadcast and inserted the same winds execute code that I had
 previously intercepted on 4 December as part of their routine news broadcast.
 This was repeatedtwice.

 I then made a writtenentry on the upper right-hand margin of this log sheet
 concerning the fact that I, as officer in charge, on the date in question had
 sighted and verified that this was a recorded original entry of the winds
 execute message. I also suggest today that the NAVSECGRU dig through our many
 files to see if they can recover this log sheet; it is still there. I wish
 today I had made a copy and brought it back with me to Washington.

 Continued on part two.

 Carl Wernke
 TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Aug 1994 00:28:36 EST
From:    "CARL WERNKE (TCWERNC@VCCSCENT)" <TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET>
Subject: DOC:Re: "Interview with Ralph T. Briggs...Winds Message"--

                   Congressional Investigation Pearl Harbor Attack.(Pt 2 of 2)
 X-TO: WWII-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
 TO: Multiple Recipients of List WWII-L (WWII-L@UBVM.BITNET)

 Page 17 of the log sheet attached to the Ralph Briggs interview transcript
 stated: Mr.SCHMIDT, who might have been hurt by some kind of revelation of
 that nature? [A directive sent down that Briggs was not to appear at the
 Congressional Investigation Pearl Harbor Attack]. Would it have hurt the
 intelligence business? Would it have hurt the Navy?
 Mr.Briggs: I don't think it was a question of who it would hurt. I think it
 was a question of who it would reveal had not acted properly upon receipt and
who had failed to take the necessary measures to prepare for eventual
 confrontation with Japan, which this message clearly was an indication of.
 I think that is the real concern. Somebody, some person or persons unknown to
 me this day, must have been responsible for the actual withholding of this
 message, or destruction of this message, or its failure to be revealed.

 [End of interview transcript]

 All comments and questions regarding this post are welcome and encouraged!

 Carl Wernke                  History Instructor
 TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET      Tidewater Community College
                              Portsmouth,VA

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Aug 1994 07:25:24 -0600
From:    Tony Schuler <SCHULERE@UWSTOUT.EDU>
Subject: DDay-CD Rom

I saw some software previewed on CNN about DDay. Can not remember the
name of the CD Rom, but it dealt with all aspects of DDay. I bought
a different one by Simon and Schuster. Could anyone supply me with the
title and where to get the software?

Thanks,

Tony Schuler
Schulere@uwstout.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Aug 1994 08:20:48 PDT
From:    Jim Brady <brady@ONRAMP.NET>
Subject: Re: INF: 50 Years Ago - 14-AUG-1944

---------------Original Message---------------
On 14-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
[deletions]
The Homefront
-------------
Kennedy's Son Killed - Joseph P. Kennedy Jr., 29, son of the former U.S.
     ambassador to Great Britain, was lost in action on August 12th in the
     European war theater on a special air mission, the Navy announces.

[deletions]
----------
John Davis  (jbd@netcom.com/jbd@osbm.state.nc.us)
Cary, N.C.
----------

What was the mission, again? It was discussed here late last year or early this one;
 seem to remember it had something to do with a modified aircraft or bomb load.
Anyone?

Thanks,

-- Jim Brady
----------End of Original Message----------

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Aug 1994 15:13:02 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <John.Ausland@GMAIL.GAR.NO>
Subject: 50TH: WAR IS NOT ALL COMBAT

  Contrary to the impression I may have given thus far, war was not all
combat.  I will illustrate this with two excerpts from LETTERS HOME.

          EXCERPT
          Once the German counteroffensive (at Mortain) was repulsed, the 4th
          Division took a breather for several weeks. I took full
          advantage of the situation to relax, have fun, and think
          about the future.

          Dear Folks, August 13, 1944, Somewhere in France

          Lt. George De Meyers and I - he's one of the forward
          observers who works with me - are living in the home of
          an elderly French couple.

          Yesterday we both took our section swimming in a nearby
          lake. Then we had a duck and chicken dinner cooked by
          the madam and several of her neighbors. After the
          dinner, George and I went to visit some of the neighbors.
          The couple in question lives just across the road. The
          husband is Russian, the wife French, her sister a
          peroxide blonde. We had quite a time talking to them.
          Their home is in Paris, and they told us a great deal
          about living conditions there.

          The chocolate we gave them was the first in four years.
          Everything costs a small fortune. The Germans have
          taken everything to send back to the Reich.

          You might send stationary in your next package. Include
          in it shaving cream, some Ox Blood shoe polish, some
          Persona blades, and the type candy you sent before.
          Another thing that keeps and always goes well is a box
          of assorted nuts.

          I'll enclose my promotion notice, in case you're interested.

          Must go now, I have a three o'clock date for cocktails!

          Love, John
          END EXCERPT

  The promotion was to captain, the rank for liaison officers to infantry
battalions.

  In a few days, I will upload the text of a letter about adventures George
De Meyers and I had on a one day pass to Rennes.

  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo, Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Aug 1994 08:48:32 -0700
From:    Ed Kettler <deradler@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: INF: 50 Years Ago - 14-AUG-1944

If I remember correctly, the code name for the mission was APHRODITE, and
it involved a television guided B-24/PB4Y heavily laden with explosives.
The plane was flown off by a skeleton crew, who were supposed to bail out
after takeoff.  The plane would then be guided by a mother plane, and
crashed into an important target, such as a factory manufacturing V
weapons.  The guidance system was basically radio controlled, with the TV
camera in the nose for terminal targeting by the radio control operator.

I don't remember the specific circumstances regarding Kennedy's death,
and I don't have any books to dig through.  Hope this helps you find the
right trail.

regards,
Ed
 Ed Kettler
deradler@netcom.com


On Sun, 14 Aug 1994, Jim Brady wrote:

> ---------------Original Message---------------
> On 14-AUG-1944, the following occurred -
>
> World War II - The Battlefronts
> -------------------------------
> [deletions]
> The Homefront
> -------------
> Kennedy's Son Killed - Joseph P. Kennedy Jr., 29, son of the former U.S.
>      ambassador to Great Britain, was lost in action on August 12th in the
>      European war theater on a special air mission, the Navy announces.
>
> [deletions]
> ----------
> John Davis  (jbd@netcom.com/jbd@osbm.state.nc.us)
> Cary, N.C.
> ----------
>
> What was the mission, again? It was discussed here late last year or early this
> one;
>  seem to remember it had something to do with a modified aircraft or bomb load.
> Anyone?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -- Jim Brady
> ----------End of Original Message----------
>

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Aug 1994 12:26:48 -0500
From:    "Danny G. Cox" <dcox01@OZARKS.SGCL.LIB.MO.US>
Subject: HIST: POWs

During WWII there were some Italian POWs housed here in Springfield MO.
There was also an army hospital (O'Riley) here, and most of these POWs
were used as orderlies in the hospital.  For extra credits, as I remember
it, in the form of military MPC chits, the ones who wanted to and could
entertained the officers at night at the officers club.  This club was a
large old building on the grounds and had belonged to a local club at one
time.  There was a small stage in it where the POWs did their thing.  I
want to make it clear THIS WAS TOTALLY VOLUNTARY and they were given some
kind of chit which could be redeemed for candy, soft drinks, cigarettes,
whatever, for doing this.

A few of them worked on some of the larger farms in the area, and after
the war a couple of them returned with their families to resettle
and work for these same farmers.

I'm writing this from memory of a the local newspaper article written
about a year ago.  The old officers club is registered as a national
historic landmark and the article was about it's sale and what was
required of the prospective buyer before he would be allowed to acquire it.

Shortly after the war the hospital was closed, some of the buildings
(they were all prefab) were auctioned off, and the rest along with most of
the land was purchased by the Assembly Of God church and became the
original buildings of what is now Evangel College.

+==================================+
|   DAN COX                        |
|   REPUBLIC, MO                   |
|   dcox01@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us   |
+==================================+

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Aug 1994 14:31:52 -0400
From:    jmeierho@MAIL.NYSED.GOV
Subject: WEAP Japanese Cruiser Names

The Isuzu was a Japanese light cruiser used in WWII, one of 6
ships in the Nagara class.

I remember reading somewhere that either this class or maybe
Japanese cruisers in general were named after rivers in Japan.

After perusing the National Geographic, and the Comprehensive
Times Atlas of the world, I cannot find an Isuzu R. (or river named
Notori for that matter).

In partial confirmation of this idea, the other crusiers in this class,
 the Nagara, Abukuma, Yura and Kinu, are rivers in Japan.
In addition, I have been able to verify that the names of some other Japanese
cruisers are rivers, viz. Mogami, Tone, and Chikuma.

Can anyone confirm or deny (preferably with some references) the
general point that cruisers are named after rivers?

In any case, does anyone know the source or significance of the name
Isuzu?  Does the name Isuzu have any particular significance in
Japanese history, mythology etc. in the same sense the Yorktown or
Bunker Hill are significant historical events in an American context?

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Aug 1994 16:32:56 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <dan.ford@UNH.EDU>
Subject: war's end in japan

Gov't reports describe confusion around end of war
Source: JN      Date: Aug 12, 1994              Time: 09:12 am

  TOKYO, Aug. 12 --
  The confusion and bewilderment among Japanese people just before and
after the end of World War II are well depicted in detailed reports by
local police to the central government, a university professor who has
found the reports said Friday.
  The reports, discovered recently in the National Archives in Washington,
describe, for instance, how part of the military officers and
right-wingers tried to prod people into continuing the war with the United
States even after Emperor Hirohito's radio broadcast announcing Japan's
surrender, said Kentaro Awatsu, the history professor at Rikkyo (St.
Paul's) University who discovered the reports.
  The reports, about 2,000 pages in total, were mostly compiled by
prefectural police for the Interior Ministry and cover the period between
Aug. 14, 1945, the day before Japan's surrender, and October of the same
year.
  In Nagasaki, which was atomic bombed on Aug. 9, some military police
officers went around the town in trucks immediately after the emperor's
radio message on Aug. 15, shouting that the message was a fake.
  Nagasaki citizens on the streets applauded and shouted back "banzai" to
the officers, the reports said.
  But the citizens' resistance fever cooled rapidly after newspapers
reported the end of the war the following day, they said.

[With a tip of the virtual hat to DowVision and the original provider. In
the spirit of the Internet, this copyrighted material has been re-posted
for no personal gain. Deletions are shown with ellipses, thus: . . . .]

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Aug 1994 13:34:13 -0700
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 15-AUG-1944

On 15-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In Brittany, the 83rd Division enters Dinard. The position of
     the German garrison at St Malo grows more critical. In the US 1st Army
     sector, the V Corps reaches the hills that dominate Tinchebray from the
     south.  The British VIII Corps joins up with the US V Corps. In the
     Canadian 1st Army sector, the 4th Armoured Division (II Corps) advances
     towards Falaise. Northeast of Falaise the Polish 1st Armoured Division
     secures a bridgehead on the east bank of the river Dives. In the
     Avranches-Mortain sector, the German armoured divisions of the XLVIII
     Armoured Corps, which carried out the counter-attack on Avranches, now
     withdraw eastwards towards Falaise. They occupy a strip about 30 miles by
     12 miles and are in danger of being encircled as a result of the
     simultaneous pressure of the Allies towards Falaise from the north and
     towards the Tinchebray-Argentan road from the south. Their predicament is
     made all the more worst by a sudden inexplicable disappearance of General
     von Kluge, Commander-in-Chief of the Western Front. This news sends
     Hitler into a frenzy, because he thinks von Kluge has gone over to the
     enemy. The facts are very different though. While traveling towards the
     headquarters of General Heinrich Eberbach's headquarters his car is
     attacked by enemy aircraft. Von Kluge escapes death but goes into hiding.
     He waits until twilight hidden in a cornfield, then manages to return to
     headquarters.

Southern France - Allied forces land on the south coast of France. The
     invasion fleet is composed of some 2,000 transports and landing craft,
     escorted by 300 warships. At dawn, the US 1st Parachute Division is
     dropped in the region betwen Draguignan and Le Muy, about 20 miles west
     of Cannes. The American special troops (Sitka Force) and the French and
     Moroccans land on the islets east of Port Cros, at Cap Negre and at Point
     Esquillon. At 8:00 after heavy naval and air bombardment, the US VI Corps
     come ashore in Provence between Toulon and Cannes. There is hardly any
     resistance from the Germans. At least 94,000 men land during the course
     of the day and quickly establish a solid beachhead. Allied loses amount
     to only 183 men. Churchill who has come along to observe the operation
     from aboard a destroyer, seems bored by the lack of action.

New Guinea - On Numfoor Island, the main Japanese garrison break off contact
     with the Americans and take refuge in the area of Pakriki.

Naval Dispatches
----------------
US LST-181 sunk by radio-controlled bomb, Southern France.

Submarine chaser SC-1019 damaged by explosion, Southern France.

Foreign Affairs
---------------
Rome Returned To Italians - Allied headquarters in Rome has announced that
     Rome and the Provinces of Littoria and Frosinone have been returned to
     the jurisdiction of the Italian Government of Premier Ivanoe Bonomi.

The Homefront
-------------
Nazi Prisoners Strike - About 500 of 1,800 German prisoners of war employed at
     the Army Ordinance Depot in Stockton, California call off a strike begun
     yesterday in protest against the War Department's order increasing the
     work day to nine hours.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  (jbd@netcom.com/jbd@osbm.state.nc.us)
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Aug 1994 16:03:29 -0700
From:    Jim Benn <jrb@AGAVIION.AGFX.COM>
Subject: Re: German squad vs. U.S. Squad

The problem here seems to be the term "typical"; I've just started
Stephen Ambrose's D-Day book, and early in it he makes the point that 1
in 5 Wehrmacht troops in France on D-Day were non-German, including some
*Koreans* who had been captured by the Russians in border skirmishes w/
the Japanese, impressed into the Russian army, and then captured by the
Germans and impressed in their service.

The non-mobile defense units in the Wehrmacht were certainly below U.S.
levels, but the attack/defense issue should also be taken into account.
Some of the lower-grade German units may have been up to standing up to
U.S. troops in a defensive mode, but I doubt they could stand up and
attack U.S. troops as the Americans so often had to do in France.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Aug 1994 16:27:04 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: INF: 50 Years Ago - 14-AUG-1944

Lt Joe Kennedy was killed by an acciedental explosion of his Liberator
bomber, en route to be used as a guided (un-manned) flying bomb against
german coastal guns in France. The aircraft's equipment included television
guidance systems, an un-smart-bomb, as it it turned out.
There is a good description of the USN modified bomber, and the circumstances
of Lt Kennedy's death in book entitled:  OPERATION APHRODITE.
Regards -- Sidney.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Aug 1994 20:16:39 -0400
From:    Emery Ford <eford@DELPHI.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: German squad vs. U.S. Squad

Hi,

On August 14, Jim Benn wrote:
>
>
>The problem here seems to be the term "typical"; I've just started
>Stephen Ambrose's D-Day book, and early in it he makes the point that 1
>in 5 Wehrmacht troops in France on D-Day were non-German, including some
>*Koreans* who had been captured by the Russians in border skirmishes w/
>the Japanese, impressed into the Russian army, and then captured by the
>Germans and impressed in their service.
>
I have read that there was a Korean population in The Soviet Union, from
before 1939, on the border with Manchuria that Stalin had relocated because
he believed they might be sympathetic to the Japanese (which seems
absurd).  Does anyone else know of this?

Emery

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Aug 1994 20:43:13 EDT
From:    John Sloan <JohnS426@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: 50TH: WAR IS NOT ALL...

Many thanks to John Ausland for sharing his first hand - eye witness -
information about WWII. However, I would venture to say that not only is war
not all combat - actually war is MOSTLY not combat. Seen in the perspective
of the number of hours consumed over the course of a campaign, the number
actually spent in killing enemy is pretty small, even the time spent THINKING
about killing enemy is relatively small compared to thinking about other
things - dare I say (Women) ?
looking forward to more great memoir material

john sloan
johns426@aol.com

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Aug 1994 21:40:43 CDT
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: German squad vs. U.S. Squad

It seems absurd the Koreans would be sympathetic to the Japanese for
anything in this period.  My former sister-in-law is Korean and has no
love lost for the Japanese.  Don;t forget the comfort girl stpry out a
couple of years ago.  I can't confirm the Stalin story, but the premise
seems unlikely.

Did anyone see the "Search for Hitler" special Satiruday night on ABC.
I caught the tail end of it.  THEY FOUND HITLER'S BRAIN!  AHHHHH TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 13 Aug 1994 to 14 Aug 1994
*************************************************

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Status: O

There are 23 messages totalling 992 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. RIP
  2. [INF] USAAF 15 AUG 44
  3. Re[2]: Koreans in Russia [was German squad vs. U.S. Squad]
  4. WEAP: British Naval Aircraft (was Seafire)
  5. [INF] Wake Island revisited again. (2)
  6. INF: USN Chronology 08-14-94
  7. INF: 50 Years Ago - 16-AUG-1944
  8. INF: USN Chronology 08-15-94
  9. Joe Kennedy Jr's Last Mission (2)
 10. Media: Search for Hitler (3)
 11. NOST: More shameless plugging.  :-)
 12. WEAP Japanese Cruiser Names (2)
 13. MIKUMA and MOGAMI -- and question for John Lundstrom
 14. MODELS:  Re-issue
 15. Japan ponders the war
 16. [INF] USAAF 16 AUG 44
 17. [INF] WAKE ISLAND REVI
 18. Research topic

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 07:56:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: RIP

The Associated Press is reporting that Lieutenant Commander Leonard
Goldsworth, RAN Retired, died on 7 Aug at the age of 85.  He was the
most decorated World War II naval officer in Australia.  Goldsworth
served in the Philippines and helped the USN detect and remove
mines during the Philippine campaign and is credited with
potentially saving many Allied ships and thousands of lives.

Requiescat in pace.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Aug 1994 19:46:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 15 AUG 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
TUESDAY, 15 AUGUST 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-36, North American Apache
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  F-6, North American Mustang
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  Mosquito, deHavilland
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  CARIBBEAN (Sixth Air Force): The 24th Fighter Squadron, XXVI Fighter
Command, moves from Madden Field, Panama to France Field, Canal Zone with
P-39s.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 70+ P-51s, P-47s, P-40s, and A-36s
hit numerous N Burma targets including general targets of opportunity in the
Bhamo area, a monastery at Pegu, troops E of Mawhun, Loiwing and Lashio
Airfield and rail targets between Naba and Hopin; close support strikes are
flown for ground forces in the Pinbaw and Naba areas; and supply dumps at
Mainghka are bombed and 2 villages N of Kazu are hit and burned out.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 12 B-25s bomb Kutkai, demolishing 2
large buildings and leaving 14 burning; 35 P-40s attack Tingka, Hsenwi,
Lungling, and Tengchung; and nearly 100 P-40s and P-51s attack troops,
horses, trucks, river shipping, artillery pieces, warehouses, and general
targets of opportunity in or near Sungpai, Sinshih, Hengyang, Chaling,
Leiyang, Sinyang, Siangtan, Hukow, and Changsha. In French Indochina, 4 P-40s
hit coastal shipping at Hongay and Nam Dinh.

  EASTERN AIR COMMAND (EAC): Air Marshall (USAAF Lieutenant General) William
A Coryton assumes command of the Third Tactical Air Force, a major component
of EAC; tactical air force functions remain under Coryton until it is
dissolved on 4 Dec 44.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 554: 932 bombers and 443
fighters are dispatched to attack 11 airfields in NW Germany, the Netherlands
and Belgium in conjunction with 1,000 Royal Air Force (RAF) heavy bombers and
Mosquitos raiding 9 airfields in the Netherlands and Belgium; 16 bombers and
5 fighters are lost; numbers in parenthesis indicate the number of bombing
attacking:
  1. 219 B-17s are dispatched to hit German airfields at Cologne/Ostheim
(108), Frankfurt/Eschborn (65) and Wiesbaden (38); 3 others hit targets of
opportunity; they claim 4-2-0 Luftwaffe aircraft; 9 B-17s are lost, 2 damaged
beyond repair and 86 damaged; 7 airmen are KIA, 8 WIA and 81 MIA. Escort is
provided by 112 of 141 P-51s; they claim 10-0-1 aircraft; 1 P-51 is lost
(pilot MIA) and 2 damaged.
  2. 350 B-24s are dispatched to German airfields at Wittmundhaafen (91),
Zwischenahn (90), Vechta (67), Plantlunne (54) and Hopstein (10); they claim
9-1-2 aircraft; 4 B-24s are lost and 6 damaged; 1 airman is WIA and 40 MIA.
Escort is provided by 163 P-38s and P-51s; they claim 4-0-0 aircraft in the
air and 7-0-9 on the ground; 2 P-38s and 2 P-51s are lost (pilots MIA); 3
P-51s are damaged; 1 pilot is WIA.
  3. 298 B-17s are dispatched to Dutch airfields at Handorf (109), Venlo
(104) and Twente/Enschede (75); 3 others hit targets of opportunity; 2 B-17s
are lost and 6 damaged; 19 airmen are MIA.
  4. In Belgium, 59 of 65 B-24s hit Florennes/Juzaine Airfield and 1 hits a
target of opportunity; 1 B-24 is lost and 3 damaged.
  The two missions above are escorted by 118 of 124 P-51s without loss.
  33 of 35 P-47s dive-bomb and skip-bomb a repair shop and locomotives in the
marshalling yard at Braine-le-Comtes; 1 P-47 is lost and 4 damaged; 4 pilots
are MIA.
  12 B-24s fly CARPETBAGGER missions during the night.
  HQ 491st Bombardment Group (Heavy) and the 852d, 853d, 854th and 855th
Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy) move from Metfield to North Pickenham, England
with B-24s.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): The 50th and 53d Troop Carrier
Wings, on loan to the Mediterranean Allied Air Force (MAAF), participate in
the invasion of S France as part of the Provisional Troop Carrier Air
Division. In France, 330+ A-20s and B-26s with fighter escort bomb Marseille-
en-Beauvaisis and Foret de Chantilly ammunition and fuel dumps, rail bridges
at Auvers-sur-Oise and L'Isle-Adam, Serqueux marshalling yard, and coastal
defense at Saint- Malo; fighters fly cover for 5 infantry and armored
divisions, and fly extensive armed reconnaissance over N and W France; HQ
365th Fighter Group and 388th Fighter Squadron move from Azeville to
Lignerolles with P-47s; HQ 370th Fighter Group and the 401st, 402d and 485th
Fighter Squadrons move from Cardonville to La Vielle with P-38s; the 14th
Liaison Squadron, XIX Tactical Air Command (attached to Third Army), moves
from St Germain to La Bozoge with L-5s; the 33d Photographic Reconnaissance
Squadron, 67th Tactical Reconnaissance Group, moves from Chalgrove, England
to Le Molay with F-5s; the 356th Fighter Squadron, 354th Fighter Group, moves
from Cricqueville to Gael with P-51s; and the 392d, 393d and 394th Fighter
Squadrons, 367th Fighter Group, move from Carentan to Cricqueville with
P-38s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In the Fifteenth AF's first
mass night raid, 252 B-17s and B-24s after a predawn takeoff pound beaches in
the Cannes-Toulon, France area in immediate advance of Operation DRAGOON; 28
other fighter-escorted B-17s bomb highway bridges over the Rhone River; B-17s
sent against coastal gun positions abort the mission owing to poor
visibility; and 166 P-51s escort Mediterranean Tactical Air Force (MATAF)
C-47s carrying airborne invasion troops.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In France during the night of
14/15 Aug A-20s bomb Le Vallon, Istres, and Orange/Plan de Dieu Airfields and
other Rhone Valley targets while the US Seventh Army carries out preliminary
operations to isolate Operation DRAGOON invasion beaches; the US Special
Service Force invades Levant and Port-Cros Island and secures the left flank
of the assault area; French commandoes land E of Cap Negre and clear coastal
defenses, the French Naval Assault Group lands SW of Cannes and secures the
right flank; the 1st Airborne Task Force drops in the rear of assault beaches
and blocks off the invasion area from the interior; the main force, the US VI
Corps, lands 3 divisions abreast between Nice and Toulon at 0800 hours local;
A-20s bomb barracks in the invasion area while B-25s, B-26s, P-38s, and
P-47s, supporting the invasion, pound beaches, enemy concentrations, and gun
positions in coastal areas and later in the day move attacks inland to
interdict enemy communications lines successfully hitting numerous bridges;
fighters maintain constant patrol over the convoys and invasion area; HQ 64th
Fighter Wing moves from Santa Maria di Caputa, Italy to St Tropez; and the
111th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron, XII Tactical Air Command, based at
Borgo, Corsica, sends a detachment to operate from St Maxime and Grimaud with
F-6s.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s bomb Lolobata
Airfield on Halmahera Island and B-25s attack shipping in the Ternate Island
area, setting a 1,200-ton vessel afire and damaging several luggers and
barges; aircraft on armed reconnaissance hit targets of opportunity in the
Ceram Island area and Tanimbar Island. In New Guinea, P-39s dive-bomb AA
positions at Wewak Point; HQ V Bomber Command moves from Nadzab to Owi,
Schouten Islands; HQ XIII Fighter Command moves from Guadalcanal Island to
Sansapor; HQ 347th Fighter Group and 339th Fighter Squadron move from
Stirling Island, Treasury Islands to Sansapor with P-38s; and the 67th
Fighter Squadron, 347th Fighter Group moves from the Russell Islands to
Middleburg Island with P-38s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

14/2348Z AUG

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 08:59:32 -0400
From:    Emery Ford <eford@DELPHI.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Koreans in Russia [was German squad vs. U.S. Squad]

On August 14, Tim Scherrer wrote:

>
>
>It seems absurd the Koreans would be sympathetic to the Japanese for
>anything in this period.  My former sister-in-law is Korean and has no
>love lost for the Japanese.  Don;t forget the comfort girl stpry out a
>couple of years ago.  I can't confirm the Stalin story, but the premise
>seems unlikely.
>

I think I understand the absurdity of Stalin's perceived threats as much
as anyone.  I am particularly interested in theis topic because I am a
veteran of the U.S. Navy as a Korean linguist, who has spent a year over
in the ROK, 1982 to 1983.  I read about the Korean population in the
Soviet Union being relocated early in ww2 recently for the first time, I
think it was in Robert Conquest's book, _STALIN:_THE_BREAKER_OF_NATIONS_.
The passage was brief, as I recall.  The Koreans wouldn't have been the
only population that was relocated by Stalin without raional basis.  I'll
see if I can find it and excerpt it for you.

Does anyone else have any info on this?  Or, perhaps, a comprehensive
listing of the dates, as well as the size of the populations, and their
respective nationalities that were relocated by Stalin during his rule?

Thanks,
        Emery

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 10:58:26 -0400
From:    Barone <m1b@SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: Re: WEAP: British Naval Aircraft (was Seafire)

Robert E George <regeorge@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU> writes:
>
>      I tend to think that British maritime aviation never got the resources
> it deserved: even during the Battle of the Atlantic Coastal Command had
> to fight tooth-and-nail for the long-range a/c earmarked for Bomber Command.

        I remember reading in Marshall Cavendish's "History of the Second
World War" that Coastal Command was painted as petty and self-serving when
Bomber Command commandeered all of its bombers for the first 1,000 bomber
raid on Germany.
--
Joe Barone
m1b@ssd.ray.com
I cut you in on everyt'ing; I don't need you!
Sixty feet of bridge I can pick up almost anywhere!

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 09:38:39 CDT
From:    Robert Hohlt <rhohlt@MGMSERV1.MGM.SAIC.COM>
Subject: [INF] Wake Island revisited again.

Hello all,

Today while cleaning out some old posts gathering net dust in my
directory I remembered these 2 posts which still bother me.  The
topic was Wake Island and the 2 posters wrote this:

Mike Oaks  Fri, 17 Jun 1994 10:36:34:

>[ much deleted ] ...did the Japanese just abandon the island toward
>the end of the war when reality started to sink in?? Anybody have any
>facts on this subject???

then Jim Curry Fri, 17 Jun 1994 11:31:36:

>Wake Island actually fell on 23 December 1941.  The Japanese held it
>for the rest of the war like many other islands bypassed in the
>"island-hopping" Central Pacific offensive.  It was bombed several
>times by US aircraft but not considered worth the casualties it
>would have cost to retake.  The Japanese garrison surrendered in
>September 1945.  A well-illustrated short account of Wake Island
>in wartime is Stan Cohen's _Enemy On Island: Issue In Doubt_
>(Pictorial Histories Publishing Company,1983) which I consulted
>on this question.

Ok now here is the part that still bothers me.  There were a number
of civilian workers on Wake helping to strengthen its defenses before
and during the battle.  I have read somewhere (* but I can't remember
where *) that the civilians were executed or murdered on Wake before
the Japanese left the island?  Does anyone have any other information
on what happened to the civilian workers on Wake?  Were they moved
into internment?  Murdered?   What??????

Hope one or more of you can help me.

Jim Curry, is this information in
Stan Cohen's _Enemy On Island: Issue In Doubt_?

Thanks in advance,


Robert Hohlt, Jr.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 09:24:15 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 08-14-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
08/14 Mon.  United States naval vessel sunk:
             LST 921, by submarine torpedo, English Channel,
             51 d. 05'N., 04 d. 47'W.
            Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             Transport NO. 129, by submarine Cod (SS-224), Netherlands
              East Indies area,
              04 d. 17'S., 126 d. 46'E.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 09:29:23 -0700
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 16-AUG-1944

On 16-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Northern France - The British II Corps enters Falaise and encounters heavy
     street fighting. To the north in the British 2nd Army sector, the British
     I Corps is moving towards the Seine. Polish troops in the I Crops begin
     to move over the River Dives. The US XV and XX Corps, which are advancing
     towards Paris, reach Dreux and Chartres.

Southern France - Units of the US VI Corps (3rd Army) consolidate the
     beachhead in Provence. The French II Corps passes through the American
     lines to lead the advance.

Eastern Front - The Russians reach Ossow, seven miles northeast of Warsaw; but
     they are pushed back by a German counter-attack.

Naval Dispatches
----------------
US PT-202, PT-218 and minesweeper YMS-24 sunk by mines in Southern France
     area.

LST 391 sunk by mine in Normandy area.

The Homefront
-------------
Roosevelt Leads Poll - Fortune magazine reports that voters favor President
     Roosevelt by 52.5% to 43.9% for Gov. Thomas E. Dewey.

Popular Songs - Variety reports that the most popular songs are 1) Swinging On
     a Star, 2) I'll Be Seeing You, 3) I'll Walk Alone, 4) Amor and 5) Time
     Waits For No One.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  jbd@netcom.com
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 09:25:03 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 08-15-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
08/15 Tue. Allied troops land on coast of Southern France between Toulon
           and Cannes. The assault is preceded by heavy naval gunfire
and
           aircraft attack. The operation is under the command of Vice
           Adm. H. K. Hewitt, USN, Naval Commander Western Task
           Force and Commander Eighth Fleet, and the ground forces are
           commanded by Maj. Gen. A. M. Patch, USA. After the landings,
           naval gunfire engages German coast defense batteries, and
           continues to support the troops ashore.
            United States naval vessel lost:
             LST 181, by radio-controlled bomb, Southern France area,
              43 d. 25'N, 06 d. 50'E.;
              beached and abandoned.
            United States naval vessel damaged:
             Submarine chaser SC-1019, by explosion, Southern France
              area,
              43 d. 12'N., 06 d. 41'E.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 10:36:12 -0400
From:    "Eliot K. Friedman" <ekfriedm@AEC1.APGEA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Joe Kennedy Jr's Last Mission

Someone recently mentioned the 50th anniversary of JFK's older brother's KIA.
I've heard stories about his last mission that I was hoping could be
confirmed/elaborated.

Supposedly, the Germans were building in France a huge concrete bunker,
containing a huge "High Pressure Pump Gun" angled to lob huge artillery
shells directly into London.  In an early variation on the cruise missile
concept,  a radio controlled bomber, laden with explosive, was to be
crashed/steered into the facility by a pilot in a chase plane.  Joe Jr.
had volunteered to fly the controlling chase plane.

What I read was that the bomber exploded shortly after takeoff, destroying
the chase plane (and Joe Jr.) in the blast.  Ground troops captured the
site before the gun became operational.

Can anyone confirm/deny the story?

El

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 12:51:36 -0400
From:    "Mr. Scott Hannon" <hannon@UMBC.EDU>
Subject: Media: Search for Hitler

Tim Scherrer writes:
>Did anyone see the "Search for Hitler" special Satiruday night on ABC.
>I caught the tail end of it.  THEY FOUND HITLER'S BRAIN!  AHHHHH

Yes, I saw the whole show. It was an hour special used as filler for
the baseball strike. It was much better than I was expecting...a cut
above "tabloid" journalism. The premise of the show was that recent
access to ex-USSR files and personnel allowed new insights into the
fate of Hitler's remains. There was some formerly secret footage of
USSR troops milling around a corpse thought to be Hitler, but which was
concluded to be a double. And footage of USSR SMERSH agents accompanying
some high ranking Nazi POWs walking around the Chancellory identifying
corpses, etc. Also some still photos. Yeah, kind of gruesome.

The main point of the show was that, contrary to previous reports,
the bodies of Hitler, Eva, and the Goebels were not cremated and
the ashed skattered to the wind. Rather, they were repeatedly buried,
dug up, moved and/or examined, etc, three times. Two old SMERSH
agents made a trip into Gemany with the film crew and pointed out the
approx (withing a few yards) location of the final graves. The
sites were partially dug up, but no bodies were found. Perhaps the
bodies had been moved again (or it was all nonsense). Also, as Tim
alluded too, some secret archive of Stalin's back in the ex-USSR has
(amoung other Hitler relics and assorted war prizes) what is thought to
be part of Hitler's skull (the bit with the exit bullet hole). Not
quite "They Saved Hitler's Brain", but close.  :-)

Scott.
Scott Hannon, Mon Aug 15 1994 (hannon@umbc.edu)

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 11:30:58 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <rjg@UMNSTAT.STAT.UMN.EDU>
Subject: NOST: More shameless plugging.  :-)

I still get the occasional email asking for pictures of Miss Mitchell.
Those still interested might also want to check out the current
(September/October) issue of Air Progress "Warbirds" which just hit
the shelves.

About a zillion (OK, about a half dozen :-), pictures of Miss Mitchell
in the magazine, including the cover and a full color gatefold.

(BTW: Our airshow has been over for a week, but the P-51C Mustang
project was one of the big winners.  Even though we still need to
raise about $260,000 to complete it, we raised $10,668.00 during the
weekend alone... (!!)).

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
rjg@stat.umn.edu                                       Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Aug 1994 19:45:47 EST
From:    "CARL WERNKE (TCWERNC@VCCSCENT)" <TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET>
Subject: Re: WEAP Japanese Cruiser Names

 To: Multiple recipients of list WWII-L (WWII-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU

 On 14 Aug 1994 at 14:31:52 jmeierho@MAIL.NYSED.GOV wrote regarding names of
 Imperial Japanese Navy ships, especially IJN cruisers.

 Heavy cruisers:named after mountains.  Light cruisers:named after rivers.
 Light cruiser (CL) Isuzu (12 August 1923) sunk by U.S.S. Charr and Gabilan
 in Flores Sea, 7 April 1945. Abukuma, Yura and Kinu are light cruisers.
 Mogami, Tone, and Chikuma are heavy cruisers (CA). All were sunk. Write me a
 direct post if you require additional information.

 Information obtained from A BATTLE HISTORY OF THE IMPERIAL JAPANESE NAVY
 (1941-1945), by Paul S.Dull, by the United States Naval Institute, Annapolis,
 MD, 1978.
 Carl Wernke                History Instructor
 TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET    Tidewater Community College, Portsmouth, VA

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 13:16:25 -0500
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <mslrc@UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: MIKUMA and MOGAMI -- and question for John Lundstrom

Bob,

     These were light heavy cruisers.  Before the war, they
had 15 6.1" guns -- a treaty dodge -- but were converted at
the last minute to 10 8" guns.

     HOUSTON and PERTH were trying to escape to Australia
that last night and stumbled upon the Japanese invasion fleet.

     The Jap. picket destroyer FUBUKI fired (24" "Long Lance")
torpedoes at them which missed and hit the Japanese transports
instead!  :-)  ('Wonder what happened to the skipper, don't
you?)

     H and P then sailed on past and shot it out with M&M and
a flotilla of Japanese super destroyers.  They didn't last long.

     At the Battle of Midway, an American picket submarine
scared M&M's task force and the two ships collided.  Thus, they
lagged so that Midway land-based air and TF17 divebombers could
catch them (after Spruance wisely hung back during the night,
fearing a surface engagement with the main Jap. battlefleet.)

     The American torpedobombers were sorely missed.  The Jap.
cruisers would have been easy meat for torpedo attack, to
which they would have quickly succumbed.  M&M's AA was quite
potent, despite their crippled condition.

     As you noted, Mikuma eventually went down, but MOGAMI got
away.  It was so badly damaged that the aft turrets were
scrapped and a "hermaphroditic" flight deck was built, as in
the ISE and HYUGA.  That was its configuration when it was
sunk in the Surigao Straits night battle in Oct 44.

     Incidentally, the Jap. destroyer TANIKAZE -- which was
detailed to return to HIRYU and sink her with torpedoes, rather
than risk letting her fall into American hands -- proved to be
a formidable AA opponent as well.  It shot down a couple of
our planes, while nimbly dodging *everything* dropped at it.

     I don't think we had many fighters left for flak suppression.
John Lundstrom, *were* fighters used for flak suppression at this
stage of the Pacific War?

Lou Coatney

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 13:59:50 -0500
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <mslrc@UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: MODELS:  Re-issue

Just thought I'd mention that Revell/Monogram has re-issued
  the 1:400 kits of the attack transport RANDALL -- remember
  Jeff Chandler in "Away All Boats"? -- and the seaplane
  tender PINE ISLAND.  Each kit goes for about $12.

Over the weekend, I did a cardstock/paper 1:1200 SIMS
  destroyer, for photo comparison of the scale flexibility
  of paper models.  It is a little jewel.  :-)

To think! that only one cast lead 1:1200 SIMS sells for
  $6-$25 !  Robbery!  :-)

Lou Coatney

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 14:37:08 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <rjg@UMNSTAT.STAT.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Media: Search for Hitler

> Tim Scherrer writes:
> >Did anyone see the "Search for Hitler" special Satiruday night on ABC.
> >I caught the tail end of it.  THEY FOUND HITLER'S BRAIN!  AHHHHH
>
> Yes, I saw the whole show. It was an hour special used as filler for
> the baseball strike. It was much better than I was expecting...a cut
> above "tabloid" journalism. The premise of the show was that recent
[...]
> (amoung other Hitler relics and assorted war prizes) what is thought to
> be part of Hitler's skull (the bit with the exit bullet hole). Not
> quite "They Saved Hitler's Brain", but close.  :-)

It was definitely better than tabloid-TV and introduced a lot of interesting
footage, stories and places, but the end result was more or less "So what?"

We were watching the last half of this in the hangar and people were coming
up with simple questions like "how many skulls during WWII might have a
bullet's exit wound in them?"  There was no way to substantiate or prove
any of the artifacts or evidence submitted because you couldn't positively
connect the pieces to any one person.  Now, if it were complete with a
partial dental set...

It wasn't good Investigative-TV.  But neither was it Tabloid-TV, at least.
I guess it could be best described as just Filler-TV.  "We came, we didn't
see, we left."

Although, we will admit -- as the end of the show approached and they
started digging up the burial sites (completely unhindered, BTW, which
to most people proved that they would find nothing), most people began
expecting Geraldo Rivera to come up from the one of the holes muttering
something about that "damn Al Capone's vault goes on FOREVER!"

:-)

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
rjg@stat.umn.edu                                       Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 16:56:43 -0400
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <sep@TVSS2.COMMNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Media: Search for Hitler

Tim Scherrer writes:
>Did anyone see the "Search for Hitler" special Satiruday night on ABC.
>I caught the tail end of it.  THEY FOUND HITLER'S BRAIN!  AHHHHH

The part that intrigues me is the use of the acronym SMERSH. Wasn't that
taken from the origional James Bond books by Ian Flemming?

If so, then that is the basis for my skepticism.

We ALL know Hitler is alive and well in the company of a bunch of aliens,
the crew of the USS Eldridge, and Elvis at Hanger 18. Bigfoot told me ;-)

                                                                Steve

P.S. JFK and Marilyn are there too, but only as vacationers...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - sep@trctc.commnet.edu |"Life may be a drag BUT
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |  it sure beats the only
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |           known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 16:59:24 -0500
From:    John Lundstrom <jl@CSD4.CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP Japanese Cruiser Names

The best source for translations of Japanese ship names into a Western
language is in the original German edition of Warships of the Imperial
Japanese Navy 1869-1945: Hansgeorg Jentschura, et al. Die Japanischen
Kriegschiffe 1869-1945. Munich: J.F. Lehmann, 1970. Each ship name is
rendered in German and explained.The light cruiser ISUZU means literally
"clear waters," and is named after a river in Mie Prefecture. Unfortunately
the English-language edition (published by Arms & Armour Press and the Naval
Institute Press in 1977 lacks these useful translations by Dr. Wolfram
Mueller-Yokota.
                     John B. Lundstrom  Milwaukee Public Museum

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 18:17:17 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <dan.ford@UNH.EDU>
Subject: Japan ponders the war

Cabinet ministers divided over Japan's wartime past
Source: JN      Date: Aug 12, 1994              Time: 04:06 am

  TOKYO, Aug. 12 --
  Cabinet ministers expressed conflicting views of Japan's wartime past
Friday, offering different suggestions on how the nation should come to
terms with its responsibilities toward the rest of Asia.
  Members of the coalition cabinet aired their opinions following Friday's
cabinet meeting as the country looked ahead to marking the 49th
anniversary of the end of the war Monday.
  While Finance Minister Masayoshi Takemura characterized the war as a
"mistake" that requires Japan's "allinclusive remorse," Environment Agency
chief Shin Sakurai insisted Japan was not the only bad participant in the
war.
  International Trade and Industry Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto said he
would mark the end of the war as he does every year with a visit to
Yasukuni Shrine, a move which often elicits protests from Asian countries
worried about Japan's reemerging military power.
  On the other hand, Construction Minister Koken Nosaka urged the adoption
of a Diet no-war resolution that would alleviate Asian fears that Japan is
seeking to rearm itself.
  Takemura, 59, of New Party Sakigake, told reporters that with the
growing revelations about the Asian women forced into wartime prostitution
for Japanese soldiers, "Even without compensation from the state, it is
necessary for some kind of response and remorse."
  He added, however, that the issue of Japan's postwar reparations has
been dealt with through international agreements and that decisions
reached between governments should not be overturned.
  Hashimoto, 56, of the Liberal Democratic Party (LDP), held the view that
apologizing for the war and compensation are separate issues.
  "Looking at the Twenty-one Demands (of 1915), we must say there was the
undiluted color of invasion with regard to China and that Korea was no
less than colonized.  We can only apologize to the people of Asia who were
occupied (by the old . Japanese Imperial Army)," said Hashimoto.
  The LDP politician, however, said he would visit Yasukuni Shrine, which
enshrines Japan's war dead including some Class A war criminals, and the
Chidorigafuchi shrine for unknown soldiers, "as I do every year."
  Visits by Japanese cabinet members to the shrine in central Tokyo each
year regularly instigate protests from Asian countries that suffered under
Japan's military invasion and rule during World War II.
  Nosaka, 69, of the Social Democratic Party, said he hopes to see the
enactment of a bombing victims relief law and a no-war resolution adopted
by the Diet for the 50th anniversary of the end of the war next year.
  He added it is important for the people of Asia not to have anxieties
over Japan becoming a military power.
  LDP arch-conservative Sakurai, 61, said Japan had no intention of waging
a "war of aggression" and pointed to a more positive view of the results
of the war.
  "It is not necessary to take the view that only Japan was bad," he said.
As a result of the war, he added, the countries of Asia "became
independent, education is widespread, and the literacy rate is high," said
Sakurai, asking for international and domestic understanding.
  On the issue of compensation, Sakurai suggested that it is difficult to
know where to draw the line but noted the coalition administration
provides a chance for long-time opponents to make "forward-looking
arrangements."

[With a tip of the virtual hat to DowVision and the original provider. In
the spirit of the Internet, this copyrighted material has been re-posted
for no personal gain. Deletions are shown with ellipses, thus: . . . .]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 21:12:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: [INF] Wake Island revisited again.

 MUCH DELETED

 >Ok now here is the part that still bothers me.  There were a number
 >of civilian workers on Wake helping to strengthen its defenses before
 >and during the battle.  I have read somewhere (* but I can't remember
 >where *) that the civilians were executed or murdered on Wake before
 >the Japanese left the island?  Does anyone have any other information
 >on what happened to the civilian workers on Wake?  Were they moved
 >into internment?  Murdered?   What??????
 >
 >Hope one or more of you can help me.
 >
 >Jim Curry, is this information in
 >Stan Cohen's _Enemy On Island: Issue In Doubt_?
 >
 >Thanks in advance,
 >
 >Robert Hohlt, Jr.

On page 45 of HISTORY OF MARINE CORPS AVIAITON IN WORLD WAR II by
Rober Sherrod, 1952, ISBN 0-89141-111-9, Sherrod states:

"American prisoners of war were evacuated to the Empire about three
weeks after the surrender, excepting about 100 civilian workmen who
were retained to maintain the island's facilities.  Following heavy
carrier strikes and naval bombardment on 6-7 oct 43, Rear Admiral
Sakaibara IJN, the island commander, ordered these civilians
executed.  The Admiral was tried as a war criminal and executed 19
Jun 47."

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 21:18:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: Joe Kennedy Jr's Last Mission

 >Someone recently mentioned the 50th anniversary of JFK's older brother's KIA.
 >I've heard stories about his last mission that I was hoping could be
 >confirmed/elaborated.
 >
 >Supposedly, the Germans were building in France a huge concrete bunker,
 >containing a huge "High Pressure Pump Gun" angled to lob huge artillery
 >shells directly into London.  In an early variation on the cruise missile
 >concept,  a radio controlled bomber, laden with explosive, was to be
 >crashed/steered into the facility by a pilot in a chase plane.  Joe Jr.
 >had volunteered to fly the controlling chase plane.

Joe Kennedy and a "white hat" were in the explosive laden B-24 and
they were to bailout after taking the aircraft off, climbing to the
proper altitude and arming the explosives.  I believe the aircraft
had reached the proper altitude when it exploded killing both Kennedy
and the "white hat."  I have read that the target for that day was
one of the German sub pens along the Bay of Biscay which had a very
thick layer of concrete and was extremely difficult to hit and
destroy with "normal" aerial bombs.

Someone mentioned the book OPERATION APHRODITE; I don't know if it
is still in print but I think this is the most detailed story of
the mission.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Aug 1994 21:32:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 16 AUG 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
WEDNESDAY, 16 AUGUST 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
 