Subject: WWII-L Digest - 2 Aug 1994 to 3 Aug 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 00:02:38 -0400

There are 15 messages totalling 804 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. ARC: CNO Reports to Sec.s Knox and Forrestal
  2. ARC: Request ship bios at byrd.
  3. THE SALTPETER MYTH
  4. Air show (2)
  5. INF: USN Chronology 08-03-94
  6. INF: 50 Years Ago - 04-AUG-1944
  7. Battle of Malta
  8. Pearl Harbor (2)
  9. ADMIN: Introduction [LONG]
 10. REUNION U.S.S SAINT CROIX APA 231 50 Year
 11. INF: Periodicals
 12. emory's posting about Poland
 13. Anti-Semitism in Eastern Europe

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 23:05:11 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: ARC: CNO Reports to Sec.s Knox and Forrestal

All three wartime (or end-of-war) reports from Adm. E. J. King to the
Secretaries of the Navy have been uploaded to

byrd.mu.wvnet.edu
/pub/history/military/wwii/CNO.reports

The reports cover the course of the war from beginning to end (from the
U.S. Navy viewpoint) and there are appendices that cover: Final Disposition
of IJN warships; Ships of all classes added to the U.S. Navy 7 December 1941-
1 October 1945; and Losses of U.S Naval vessels from all causes (for
the same period.)

The addition of ships' histories to /pub/history/military/USN continues
as time and manpower permit. We will continue to concentrate on major
combatants until they have all been entered, and then work on smaller
ships.  Currently nothing smaller than a DE is being added unless the
scanner "grabs" it along with other material.  Sailing ships are being
added according to historical value, and U.S Civil War ships are being
added when they made a significant contribution.

Other directories at byrd are also receiving material almost daily, so
check in on your favorite area often.

Larry J

[email-masked]; Co-Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 00:22:51 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: ARC: Request ship bios at byrd.

As per request, the following ships' histories are now at byrd:

LAFFEY (DD-459)
LAFFEY (DD-724)
SARSFIELD (DD-837)
ARCHERFISH (SS-311)
ARCHERFISH (SSN-678)

The tincans' are in:

/pub/history/military/USN/escorts

and the sewerpipes are in:

/pub/history/military/USN/subs

More files will be added as we get them.  If anyone else has a ship they
want information on, send me a note.

BTW, modern Navy ships will be stored by their hull numbers while older
ones will be by name.

If anyone has files they'd like to contribute to byrd, send me mail and
we'll work something out.  I've just opened a directory for CSA documents,
and we'll have new editions of Emmanuel Gustin's excellent aircraft listings
in place as soon as I put the summer semester to sleep (I *mean* bed!)

Larry J

[email-masked]; Co-Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 13:54:34 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: THE SALTPETER MYTH

Tim Scherrer posted the following:

Subject: Re: Saltpeter

I'm in the middle of a conversation regarding saltpeter and possible use
by the military during the past 50 years by the military.  Does anybody
have anything that confirms or denies it other than stories like "I have
a friend who is a cook and he says.....".  For those of you not in the
know--saltpeter is supposed to dramatically reduce the sex drive of
males given it.  I'm looking for something that can be cited.

COMMENT:  I am not aware of any printed source on this, but you can quote me as
saying this was a myth.  During four years in the Army in WWII, including a
stint as mess officer, I never saw any evidence that this was being done.  Nor
have I ever seen any evidence that saltpeter has this effect.

My wife, who is a pharmacist, tells me that it has no effect on the sexual urge
but that, if you take enough of it, it will give you cancer.

I can also contribute a joke about this.  Two old vets are talking.  One
says to the other,  "Do you remember that stuff they gave us with our food to
reduce our sexual urge."  "Ya, I remember it."  "Well, have you noticed it is
beginning to work?"

  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 2 Aug 1994 21:15:20 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Air show

Robert, I saw your plug about an airshow and it included that there will
be a PBY Catalina.  what model?  My interest is peaked (although I won't
be able to attend) as I just finished two weeks of surveying and mapping
of a PBY5 that is underwater in Kaneohe Bay, in Hawaii.  I believe this
is one of the planes sunk during the Dec 7, 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor.

I've got some books, etc. and reference material, now I have to get
detailed information from tech manuals, etc.  If anybody has sources for
detailed technical references, I would appriciate.

****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       [email-masked]
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS        (808) 423-7300
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 01:50:53 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 08-03-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
08/03 Thu. Office of the General Counsel Navy Department is established;
           formerly designated Procurement Legal Division, Navy
           Department.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 06:00:22 -0700
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 04-AUG-1944

On 04-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the US 3rd Army sector, the 6th Armoured Division is
     advancing on Brest; while the 4th moves northwest towards Vannes. The
     13th Regiment of the 8th Division captures Rennes. In the 1st Army
     sector, the VII Corps reinforces its position at Mortain; while some of
     its troops move south towards Mayenne. The XIX is facing a new German
     counter-attack. In the British sector, the Canadian 1st Army is ordered
     to advance towards Falaise as fast as possible. The XXX Corps (British
     2nd Army) captures Hermilly and Villers-Bocage.

Eastern Front - The 1st Baltic Front is pushed back by the German Army Group
     North reopening the Estonia-Latvia corrider between Riga and the Russian
     salient north of Jelgava.

Italian Front - New Zealand and Indian troops of the British XIII Corps reach
     the south bank of the Arno near Florence. Units of the South African 6th
     Armoured Division reach the south suburbs of Florence.

Marianas - The 77th Infantry Division capture Mount Barrigada and link up with
     the 3rd Marine Division, advancing on their left. Naval ships continue to
     shell Mount Santa Rosa.

Bonin Islands/Volcano Islands - Aircraft from a carrier task group (TF 38)
     commanded by RADM J.J. Clark attack a Japanese convoy near the Bonin
     Islands. At the same time, aircraft from a second carrier task group
     commanded by RADM A.E. Montgomery bomb airfield facilities on Iwo Jima,
     Volcano Islands.

New Guinea - The Japanese withdraw southwards from the Afua area after one
     last desparate attack.

Burma/China - On the river Salween front, the Chinese penetrate into the town
     of Teng-chung, where bitter house-to-house fighting takes place. The
     British XXXIII Corps occupies Tamu across the Burmese frontier.

Naval Dispatches
----------------
Japanese destroyer MATSU sunk by carrier based aircraft, Volcano Islands.

The Homefront
-------------
Refugees Arrive - A group of 983 refugees from German occupied Europe have
     arrived in New York enroute to the U.S. Government refugee camp at Fort
     Ontario, Oswego, N.Y.

Ship Production Slumps - The Maritime Commission says July production of cargo
     vessels fell to 126 against a scheduled output of 150 ships.

28 Killed In Crash - Twenty-eight persons, including 24 Army pilots and four
     crew members of a C-47 transport plane have been killed when the plane
     crashed near Atkinson, Nebraska.

Jackie Cooper Accused - South Bend, Ind. Prosecutor Arthur Scheer has issued a
     warrant for the arrest of film actor Jackie Cooper, charging him with
     contributing to the delinquency of a 15-year old girl during an all-night
     hotel party in South Bend, where Cooper is a Navy V-12 student at Notre
     Dame University. Cooper and a fellow student are in Navy custody pending
     an investigation.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  ([email-masked]/[email-masked])
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 09:26:42 -0500
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Air show

In message <[email-masked]> Jim
Adams writes:
> Robert, I saw your plug about an airshow and it included that there will
> be a PBY Catalina.  what model?  My interest is peaked (although I won't

We've got a PBY-6A, similar to National Warplane's.

> be able to attend) as I just finished two weeks of surveying and mapping
> of a PBY5 that is underwater in Kaneohe Bay, in Hawaii.  I believe this
> is one of the planes sunk during the Dec 7, 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor.

Does it have any spare parts that will fit the interior of a -6A?  :-)

>
> I've got some books, etc. and reference material, now I have to get
> detailed information from tech manuals, etc.  If anybody has sources for
> detailed technical references, I would appriciate.

Your best source is probably the Smithsonian.  All the technical drawings
and construction materials have been converted to microfilm and are
available (for a fee).  I beleive there are other sources as well of
technical materials that people can point you to...

--
Robert J. Granvin
Southern Minnesota Wing Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 10:46:47 -0500
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Battle of Malta

As promised in my original message, I am posting a compilation of all the
titles people offered on the Battle of Malta.  Many thanks to those of you
who contributed.  I hope you don't think this is too lengthy, but I did
add a few titles I felt to be worthy.  For my money, the seige of Malta is
the best example of World War II air, sea, and underwater combat available.
It has enough human foibles, bravery, brilliance and blunders to satisfy
the most demanding appetite.

Cameron, Red Duster, White Ensign (Story of the Malta Convoys)
Bragadin, The Italian Navy in the Second World War
Roskill, The War at Sea (Official RN History)
Coggins, The North African Campaign
Buerling, Malta Spitfire
Fraser, Knight's Cross: A Life of Field Marshal Erwin Rommel
Smith & Walker, Battles of the Malta Striking Forces
Shores, Malta: The Hurrican Years
Johnston, Tattered Battlements: A Fighter Pilot's Malta Diary
Lyall, The War in the Air: The Rar in World War II
Bradford, Siege: Malta, 1940-1943
Mason, The Rise and Fall of the Luftwaffe
Bekker, The Luftwaffe War Diaries
Piekalkiwicz, Luftkrieg (in German)
Bennett, Ultra and Mediterranean Strategy
Lamb, To War in a Stringbag
Nolan, Hero: The Buzz Buerling Story
Churchill, The Hinge of Fate
Killen, A History of the Luftwaffe
Baumbach, The Life and Death of the Luftwaffe
Schmidt, With Rommel in the Desert
Collier, Duce
Moorehead, The March to Tunis
Asbury, 1942: The Year That Doomed the Axis
Lewin, Rommell
Bryant, The Turn of the Tide, 1939-1943
Nauroth, Stukageschwader Immelmann (in German)
Jablonski, Air War
Time-Life, The War in the Desert
Deakin, The Brutal Friendship
Irving, The Rise and Fall of the Luftwaffe: The Life of Field-Marshal
     Edward Milch
Home, Rommel
Irving, The Trail of the Fox
Liddell-Hart, The Rommel Papers
Irving, Hitler's War
Lukacs, The Last European War
Playfair, War in the Mediterranean (Official British History)
Shankland, Malta Convoy
Jellison, Besieged: The World War II Ordeal of Malta, 1940-1942
Smith, Pedestal: The Malta Convoy of August 1942
Lucas, Malta: The Thorn in Rommel's Side: Six Months That Turned the
    War
Wingate, The Fighting Tenth: The Tenth Submarine Flotilla and the
    Siege of Malta
Douglas-Hamilton, The Air Battle for Malta: The Diaries of a Fighter Pilot
Simpson, Periscope View: A Professional Autobiography
Perowne, The Siege Within the Walls, Malta 1940-1943
Attard, The Battle of Malta
Ciano, The Ciano Diaries 1939-1945 (Mussolini's son-in-law & foreign
    minister)
Hogan, Malta: The Triumphant Years 1940-1943
Knox, Mussolini Unleashed, 1939-1941: Politics and Strategy in Fascist
    Italy's Last War (Definitely the best title of the group, if only
    for the irony)
Poolman, Night Strike From Malta: 830 Squadron R.N. & Rommel's
    Convoys (Another book from a Swordfish pilot)

Sorry for the length, but it's hard to stop when you find a topic you
like.  Again, thanks to everyone who contributed.  Hopefully, you will
find something new on the list
Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University
School of Law Library
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 11:45:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Pearl Harbor

A question that has been raised in the past several years is, "Did the
Brits know that the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor and Winston
Churchill withheld the information so that the U.S. would have no option
other than entering the war?"  According to an article on Page A11 of the
metro edition of the NEW YORK TIMES today (August 3, 1994), the answer is no.

Anthony Best, a lecturer in international history at the London School of
Economics says he found a newly declassified internal history of British
naval intelligence prepared in 1945.  The document states that although
there were warning signals about Japan's intentions, the Brits did not know
in early Dec 41 that a Japanese Task Force was enroute to Hawaii.  Best
says he found the document at the Public Records Office where it was
released last week without any announcement.  According to the document, the
Royal Navy "had not penetrated the Japanese plan to attack Pearl Harbor,
but the United States knew, as did our own command, that it was impossible
to keep track of every Japanese unit.  There was enough to keep the U.S.
authorities on the alert, especially in view of Japan's past record in the
matter of surprise raids before declaring war."

According to the document, as of 1 Dec 41, the Royal Navy's assessment was
that of Japan's 10 aircraft carriers, 4 were in the South China Sea near
Formosa, and 4 others were in Japanese home waters; the other 2 carriers
were near Saipan in the Marianas Islands, more than 3,000 miles (4,287 km)
west of Hawaii.  In reality, 2 of the carriers that the Royal Navy thought
were in the South China Sea and all 4 of those supposedly in home waters
were part of the Task Force sailing to Pearl Harbor and operating under
radio silence.

Best states that "this (the document) was an internal history designed for
internal consumption only.  There's no reason for it to say something
designed to mislead.  I think this does prove since there's no reason for
it to have an angle, that Britain did not know."

However, John Costello, a historian based in New York wrote a letter to THE
DAILY TELEGRAPH stating that it was "too soon to assert categorically" that
Churchill did not have advance knowledge of the attack.

I think this debate will be going on in 2041, long after I am gone!

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 12:31:18 -0400
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor

Jack McKillop <[email-masked]> writes:
> I think this debate will be going on in 2041, long after I am gone!

        Pish-posh!  Most of us will probably be jacked in directly into
the Internet with some neural interface grafted into the base of our
skulls and *we* will still be debating this!  This will be ideal since
most of us probably would not be able to type very well with our arthritic
hands!  To paraphrase Tim Scherrer's father, "We'll be fighting WWII for
the rest of our lives."  :-)
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
Booker, get me my uniform!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 12:41:19 -0400
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: ADMIN: Introduction [LONG]

Revision: 3 August 1994
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[The only changes deal with accessing the WWII-L database.  These changes are
located toward the end of this intro.  - Joe]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Welcome to WWII-L, a list dedicated to the discussion of the greatest
cataclysm of the Twentieth century (and, hopefully, the last.)  I am Joe
Barone and I'll be listowner until further notice.  I can be reached at
[email-masked].

        WWII-L will be self-moderated.  This means that each of you will
always try to remember that there is a human being on the other end of the
wire, and the "Golden Rule" is rule number one!

        Our subject is HUGE and not everyone will be interested in everything
that moves over the list.  To ease YOUR burden of sorting the items you wish
to read, I offer the following "flags".  They will go FIRST on the Subject:
line.  (This section will be enforced when traffic gets heavy, otherwise
members may use their discretion on the matter.)

EDU   For discussion of aspects of teaching about the war.
SCI   For discussion of science and technology; may overlap with WEAP.
WEAP  For talk of weapons, usage of weapons, and "My favorite weapon."
POL   Political discussions, such as the effects of the Yalta Conference.
TAC   Tactical and Strategic discussions, "Island hopping vs. Single axis"
REF   References, review, where-to-buy, etc.
INF   Tables of Organization, raw data, chronologies, etc.
DOC   Reproductions of documents, Declarations of War, Speeches, Treaties, etc.
GEN   "Let's find a category for this."
TRV   For you trivia buffs. Try to stump everyone.
VET   For reunions, VA announcements, Legislation affecting veterans.
HOME  For discussions of events on the "Homefront".  To help distinguish
      WHICH homefront we're talking about, use the following format:
      HOME:US for the U.S.A.,
      HOME:GER for Germany, and so forth.
NOST  For nostalgia items, such as trips to battle sites, historical
      recreations, museum information, where to buy badges and hats, etc.
ADMIN For listowner use, to post introduction and related material.
      Responses to these articles are welcome, but only listowner
      should originate an "ADMIN" article.
WANT  For trading, suggestion on stores worth visting, etc.  Please offer to
      send more information via e-mail rather than posting an entire inventory.
MEDIA To review and report TV and other media "events".
NEWS  For reproductions of newspaper, magazine, and other articles from the
      period under discussion.  Present day news items should be post under
      "MEDIA".
ARC   For discussion of on-line resources and materials, such as those avail-
      able via ftp or gopher.  Discussion of the WWII-OLA (On-Line Archives
      should be posted under this flag.)
TROUBLE  Error messages from a site or address. Last chance to contact me
      before I'm forced to delete you! Anyone who knows the member in question
      is urged to contact them and have the problem corrected.

        Some items will overlap, of course, but the main thrust of the item
should be clear.  Try not to ask so many questions in a single post that the
flags become inoperative.  Several short posts are preferable to one long one,
and are easier to answer and quote.  You should change the flag in the subject
line if the thread takes a new direction.  If you reply to a posting which
didn't have a flag, please insert the proper flag.  (This can help categorize
the subject for people who have to download the mail via slow modem, one of
the main reasons for having the flags at all.)

        Threads have been known to mutate so that the Subject: line no longer
gives any indication of the content of the message.  I ask that you check
the Subject: line when replying to a message and change it to something
more appropriate if this is the case.

        Since messages may arrive at sites out of order, it's always a good
idea to quote portions of a previous message that you are responding to.
This does not mean that the entire message with headers should be included,
but those lines that are relevant.  It helps if proper attribution (who
said the quoted material) is given.  Also, try to avoid quoting large
tracts of text and simply adding a "Me too!" line without adding
additional information.  A good rule of thumb is not to have more quoted
text than new material.  Of course, content is always more important than
style so these suggestions may not apply.

        Abbreviations are another subject that needs attention.  While many
of us will be comfortable with the most arcane and obscure acronyms and
abbreviations, many of the readers of this list are here to learn more about
the war and will have trouble decyphering your articles if they are packed
with "LAH", "CinCUS", "StuG III", etc.  PLEASE expand these terms at least
once in your post.

        Similarly, since this list is primarily in English, could we please
translate the "foreign" terms?  A long discussion on "Kido Butai" or
"Wacht-am-Rhine" without an explantion of the terms isn't polite if we
exclude part of the list because they have no clue as to the meaning of
the terms.  The converse should also be remembered: English is not the
primary language of many members of the list.  Usenet short-hand should
also be expanded once to avoid redundant traffic explaining what such
abbreviations as BTW mean ("by the way").

        Now we come to the REALLY hard part.

        Some subjects have been beaten to death or evoke strong emotional
responses.  However, I realize that they'll come up from time to time.
If you feel that the following topics must be addressed, ensure that your
wording is precise; consider the responses that it might evoke; and use
the topics flag.  It is not my duty to censor any pertinent topic from this
list, but these topics should be handled carefully.  Failure to do so may
result in "flame wars" which will *not* be tolerated on this list.  The
mailing list suffered through one flame war pertaining to the second topic
below.  It nearly killed the list so I am loath to see if the list can
tolerate another.  Also, in regards to the Holocaust, there is another
mailing-list, HOLOCAUS-L, devoted to the topic so readers should subscribe
to that list for a more thorough discussion of that topic.  The current
list of topics are:

        1. The Holocaust.
        2. Internment of Japanese-Americans in the US.

        Also, while conspiracy theories were all the rage during in the 1970s
and 1980s, they're rather passe now.  Their novelty is gone and there is little
or no evidence to support them.  Occam's razor applies here: don't attribute
to malice the results of ignorance.  Accordingly, the following topics are
discouraged:

        1. Did Roosevelt know about the coming attack on Pearl Harbor and
           intentionally do nothing in order to drag the US into the war?
        2. Did Churchill allow the bombing of Conventry to occur in order
           to protect the secret of Ultra?

        While on the topic of touchy topics and flame wars, there are a
few individuals in the world who delight in posting the most assinine
assertions for the sole purpose of enraging the more serious members of a
group.  These people seem to derive pleasure seeing how much traffic they
can generate.  A subset of this group may actually believe the preposterous
things that they are claiming.  Regardless of such an individual's
motivation, though, if a message angers you, I ask that you not respond
immediately, if at all.  First, you would probably be playing right into
their hands and, secondly, nearly every other sensible person will have
the same response as your own.  I try to stay on top of this list in order
to prevent such flame wars, but propogation delays make it impossible for
me to react instantaneously.  Hopefully, I'll have the wisdom to discern
"flamebait" from an actual desire to debate an unpopular theory.

        One last item, STATE YOUR REFERENCES!  You're in tough company here.
Some of the folks in this list are VERY sharp, and you'll end up with egg on
your face if you haven't done your homework.

        Normally the listserv will want you to subscribe from your own account
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a tip on getting older messages from the listserver:

        One of the features of the listserver is the database search. This
allows the user to search for any subject and print either an index of the
"hits" or the articles themselves.  For instance, if you mail the command
sequence below to "[email-masked]" or "[email-masked]"
it will send you an index of all articles in the archive that deal with
weapons (the WEAP: tag).

|       One member of the list used the old example that accompanied this
| introduction and notified me that it didn't work.  Below is the correct
| sequence of commands to search the database.  I've tried it so I can
| vouch for its utility.
|

//      JOB Echo=No
Database Search DD=Rules
//Rules DD *
search WEAP: in WWII-L
index
/*

|
|       If you change the word "index" to "print" it will return you a copy
| of the articles themselves.  You can start with the listserv command,
| "info database" and receive a complete set of instructions for using the
| database. These instructions are not trivial and are a bit voluminous
| but they are thorough and will help you get what you want.

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If I haven't suffciently confused you, send me e-mail and I'll finish
the job. :-)  I can be reached at the following address:

Joe Barone, WWII-L Listowner
[email-masked]
W: (401) 842-4054
Always wit' da negative waves, Moriarty!  Always wit' da negative waves!

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Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 11:50:41 -0500
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: REUNION U.S.S SAINT CROIX APA 231 50 Year

Forwarded from soc.veterans. Repsond to "jquinly".

In article <[email-masked]> writes:
>       U. S. S. SAINT CROIX
>       APA 231
>       50TH ANNIVERSARY REUNION
>       ORLANDO, FLORIDA
>       NOV 11-12, 1994
>       For information contact:
>       William J. Quinly at
>       [email-masked]
>
>
>Please post or forward this post to any outher groups that may apply.
>
>Thank You
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
[email-masked]; Co-Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

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Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 13:42:35 -0400
From:    Laurie Peloquin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Periodicals

On the subject of periodicals, I would like to add Canadian Military
History.  It is a well-illustrated journal published twice a year.  All
aspects of Canadian military history are covered, but the focus is on the
Second World War.  Subscriptions are $15/year or $28/2 years with prices
slightly higher in the US.

Anyone interested in Canadian Military History, or needing more
information, can e-mail directly to the editor, Mike Bechthold, at
[email-masked].

Contributors range from professional historians to WWII veterans.  I
understand that the Fall issue will be especially informative, with
articles written by at least two members of this list. ;-) Yes, you could
call that a shameless plug - but don't let that detract from the quality
of this magazine.

Happy reading!

Laurie Peloquin
University of Waterloo

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Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 10:37:00 PDT
From:    Julie Jenkins <[email-masked]>
Subject: emory's posting about Poland

I just saw Em's posting about post WWII Poland.  Yes, E., there were vicious
pogroms in '46 and again, I think, in '48.  Because there is no way around the
fact that Poles are generally speaking as about as vicious anti-semites as it's
possible to be.  Before anyone has a heartattack, breathe deeply several times
and just accept this.  Yes, many Poles are not a-s, but more are.  Hitler put
the death camps in Poland because he controlled Poland more than any other
country and Poles were treated among the worst treated people of the war and
had very little room to maneuver, but that being said, most scolars agree that
Hitler's 96%+ success rate in Poland was because he had a lot of local help.
Yes, individual Poles made heroic sacrifices and there are Polish people com-
memorated in Israel's grove of heros, but the population at large was just as
pleased to see the Jews disappear.  Lanzman's Shoah makes this really clear.
But so does any book written this century by Polish Jews.  Read either Singer,
read Bruno Schulz, read Gombro - - - author of the classic, This Way to the Gas
Ladies & Gentlemen.  Read Levi's book The Return.  Read Dawodowicz (sp?), Bel-
low etc., etc,.  Read Polish books like Ashes and Diamonds and Promised Land.
There was another Pogrom in '68, any Jewish person still around who had to make
a living found it very difficult and the final cleansing was done then--read
The Beautiful Mrs. Seidemann (sp? tremendous book--I recommend to anyone, if
you want the real spelling I'll give it to you, the author is Polish & has a
really hard name.  Today, there are only very old Jews left in Poland, but
Zid is still an epithet there and during elections, opponents suggest that thei
r adversaries are Jews--there aren't any Jews left you say, but they still
call Zid at soccer/football matches to the opposing side.  Adam Michnic, the
great journalist, Solidarity thinker, 18th cent. liberal all around good guy,
thinks his mother might have been Jewish--he's an orphan & his past is gone,
but that has always been a weapon used to beat him.  This could go on, but
the point to remember is that Eastern Europes is anti-semitic.  All of this
could be said about Russia, as you know, and Hungary.  Julie

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Date:    Wed, 3 Aug 1994 15:52:21 -0400
From:    Emery Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism in Eastern Europe

Hi Julie,

Thanks for your elaboration on my posting.  I am astounded and
dismayed.

But regarding the following statement:

>  This could go on, but the point to remember is that Eastern Europes is
>anti-semitic.  All of this could be said about Russia, as you know, and
>Hungary.  Julie

Another point emphasized in the book _A_WORLD_AT_ARMS_  is that
the Hungarian government managed to shelter their Jewish
population from the Nazis until almost the very end.  It is also
mentioned that Hitler expected that Hungary would be the last
government to give up its Jewish population.  Wouldn't this
imply that Hungary is less anti-semitic than most of the other
european nations in Nazi-occupied europe?

Emery

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End of WWII-L Digest - 2 Aug 1994 to 3 Aug 1994
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