Subject: WWII-L Digest - 6 Aug 1994 to 7 Aug 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 00:00:48 -0400

There are 10 messages totalling 470 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. SERGEANT-PILOTS
  2. INF: USN Chronology 08-07-94
  3. INF: 50 Years Ago - 08-AUG-1944 (2)
  4. 50TH: GERMAN COUNTERATTACK ON MORTAIN
  5. Privateer (3)
  6. INF: Thompsons for sale
  7. [INF] USAAF 8 AUG 44

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Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 03:59:53 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: SERGEANT-PILOTS

I'm afraid that you are somewhat misinformed. The Marine Corps gave wings to
enlisted Marines who had gone through flight school and so in the pre-WWII era
we had NAPs also. Some flew all through the war. Most of those who were still
flying during the Korean War were "forced" to take commissions as 2dLts. The
Marine Corps now has no enlisted personnel flying, not even warrant officers
flying helicopters, even though the Army does have warrant officer chopper
pilots. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 01:36:56 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 08-07-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
08/07 Mon. Submarine SEAWOLF (SS-197) lands men and supplies at Tawi
           Tawi, P. I.
            Japanese naval vessels sunk:
             Light cruiser NAGARA, by submarine CROAKER (SS-246), west
              of Kyushu, Japan,
              32 d. 09'N., 129 d. 53'E.
             Frigate KURSAGAKI, by submarine GUITARRO (SS-363), Philip-
              pine Islands area,
              14 d. 51'N., 119 d. 59'E.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

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Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 04:46:22 -0700
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 08-AUG-1944

On 08-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The German garrison at Brest, in Brittany, rejects the
     surrender ultimatum from the US 6th Armoured Division. Heavy fighting
     continues around the outskirts of St Malo. The 79th Division (XV Corps)
     reaches and takes Le Mans; while units of the 5th Division advance
     towards Nantes and Angers. In the Avranches area, the German
     counter-offensive is still taking place. The Canadian II Corps does not
     succeed in reaching Falaise.

Eastern Front - The Polish resistance forces have now managed to seize control
     of most of Warsaw and have expanded their strength with captured German
     equipment. SS General Bach-Zelewski is appointed to lead the German
     forces charged with defeating the Poles. The units to be employed are
     mostly SS police and punishment battalions, all alike in their liking
     of cruel and violent methods.

Marianas - On Guam, organized resistance ceases. the 77th Infantry Division
     takes Mount Santa Rosa and the entire area is cleared of the Japanese.

China - The Japanese capture Hengyang. This is a prelude to the execution of
     the Ichi-Go plan, which will eventually lead to the capture of all US
     airfields in the southeast of China.

Naval Dispatches
----------------
US submarine SEAWOLF (SS-197) lands men and supplies on Palawan, P.I.

PT-509 sunk by naval gunfiler, off the Isle of Jersey, English Channel.

Foreign Affairs
---------------
Eight German Officers Hanged - The German radio has announced that eight
     German Army officers were hanged at noon today, two hours after a
     "people's tribunal" had found them guilty of treason in connection with
     the July 20th bomb plot against Hilter. Five other officers face similar
     trials.

The Homefront
-------------
Admiral Takes Life - Washington has announced that Rear Admiral Don Pardee
     Moon, 50, who commanded a task force in the Normandy invasion, committed
     suicide in Washington on August 5th apparently as a result of combat
     fatigue.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  ([email-masked]/[email-masked])
Cary, N.C.
----------

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Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 14:30:12 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: 50TH: GERMAN COUNTERATTACK ON MORTAIN

  August 7, 1994

  The following describes events on the western front 50 years ago today:

Western Front - The Germans open up a counter-offensive in the Avranches area.
     German tanks penetrate into the American positions between the VII Corps
     and XIX Corps (1st Army), recapturing Mortain and reach Le Mesnil-Tove
     where they are halted with assistance from Allied aircraft. The VII and
     XIX Corps prepare to counter-attack. The 6th Armoured Division (VIII
     Corps, 3rd Army) reach Brest in the evening. The 83rd Division continues
     the battle for St Malo. On the south coast, the 4th Armoured Division
     attacks Lorient. The Canadian II Corps launches an offensive south of
     Caen, towards Falaise.

  The attack on Mortain found the infantry unit to which I was artillery liaison
officer in a rest area, not far from Mortain but far enough away not to be
directly affected by the German counterattack.  Here is an excerpt from my
LETTERS HOME about this final effort by Hitler to halt the sweep of Allied
forces across northern France.

  BEGIN EXCERPT

          Dear Folks, August 7, 1944, Somewhere in France

          Things are going quite well, and we all have high hopes
          of completing our job of destroying the German army in
          France in the near future. However, if they want, the
          German army can go on fighting for some time yet.

          Love, John

          This letter demonstrated how out of the action I was. On
          August 7, the Germans launched a counteroffensive in
          the area of Mortain. This town was about four miles from
          where I was, and one spearhead came within about a
          mile. Hitler had great ambitions for this attack. He told
          Field Marshall Gunther von Kluge to drive to the sea at
          Avranches and then throw the Allied forces out of France.
          Von Kluge had more limited hopes, which were to hold
          the Allied forces long enough to establish a new defensive
          line. Although the German units succeeded in capturing
          Mortain and moving somewhat further to the west, our
          forces soon brought the counteroffensive to a halt and
          threw it back. Shortly thereafter, Hitler, who suspected
          von Kluge of involvement in the July 20 plot, summoned
          him to Berlin. Instead of going, he wrote a letter to Hitler
          pleading with him to find a way out of the senseless war.
          On August 19, he killed himself.

          I am basing this on research, since I have absolutely no
          recollection of the attack on Mortain. This is all the more
          remarkable, since the 4th Division Artillery played a large
          role in halting the German attack, by destroying a
          German column of vehicles the afternoon of August 7. Also,
          the 12th Regiment was committed to support the 30th Division
          and took heavy casualties in intensive combat. The battalion
          I was with, however, was not involved in this fighting.

          A key reason for the defeat of this attack, as so much of
          what happened during the war, was that Allied commanders
          were following German military communications through the
          intercept program Ultra. Hence, the attack on Mortain came
          as no surprise.  END EXCERPT

  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 19:50:11 CDT
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Privateer

I wish I had known about this thread of discussion last week, because
Friday I visited the B-24 Liberator Museum at the Pueblo, CO airport.
There was a vet there who flew on the Privateer version.

The B-24 Museum is housed in a building at the Pueblo< CO airport,
located approx. 6 miles east of the town.  The airport was originally a
B-24 training base during WWII, and is depicted in a diorama of the
former post.  There are lots of aircraft models, a small number of
uniforms, and lots of display boards about the B-24.  There is a small
gift shop there, and there are usually a number of vets running around
trying to make you feel very welcome.

There is a large outdoor display area, to include a recently restored
B-29.  The entire interior was gutted and rebuild and is outstanding
from what I saw of it.  WWII aircraft are fairly limited, to include an
A-20, a C-47, and another WWII plane that name escapes me.  They have
more 50's era jets, including an A-4, an F-11, and an RF-5.  They are
presently reassembling an F-80 Shooting Star in the fenced area next to
the Museum.

I had to be cocky with the escort guy and ask him why they flew the
crates they shipped the B-17's over there in--after that he basically
left us alone to the museum.

If there are any Naval Aviators out there, and you have some extra brown
colored, leather soled shoes, they really need some help with their
shoes on the display models, please contact me off-line and I'll give
you their address.  I saw a couple pairs of loafers and other stuff that
just made me cringe!

I also visited a friend of mine who had a collection of 130+ uniforms,
of which about 80 are complete.  We looked over all *three* models of
German Luftwaffe aircrew parachutes, and then his pile of USAAF and RAF
chutes.  His chute collection was larger than my entire collection.  He
had a disassembled 37mm PAK in the garage, a Panzerschreck in the living
room, and a rangefinder in the kitchen.  Very impressive stuff.

TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 19:58:24 CDT
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Thompsons for sale

Two more things I forgot--I also went to the US goverment bookstore in
Pueblo, CO, which is located in the NORWEST Bank building downtown, and
they had copies of the green books available costing from $18-40.  I
picked about $20 worth of the German Army Lessons Learned series.  I
could have spent over a thousand there if I had wanted too.  The entire
greenbook series wasn't there--I looked for "Breakout and Pursuit" and
couldn;t find it.

Someone mentioned Thompsons are going for $225 or so repro non-firers.
A guy in CO is in the process of importing some OT-10A's, which are the
Czech version of the Sdkz 251.  The approx cost I heard (unaltered) was
$13,000 plus one very big stamp to mail it to the US.  The Czech's were
willing for another $3,000 to take in into the shop and WWIIize it (cut
off the top that seals it, and get rid of some of the smaller annoyances
that would need to be dealt with to WWIIize it.

TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

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Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 20:36:00 -0500
From:    GEORGE BAUER <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Privateer

To Tim not Timothy:

The B-24 museum in Pueblo is in my opinion excellent.  My particular
interest was the model of the Hornet.  Airplanes are in pretty rugged
shape, though.

Too bad you had to leave a bad taste in my mouth with your need to
insult your hosts there.  Hopefully, you made up for it by giving a
sizable donation to the museum.

  =========================================================================
  | DR.  GEORGE R. BAUER             | INTERESTS:                         |
  |                                  | Computers in Business & Education. |
  | Recently returned from my second | Education:  Curriculum development.|
  |   extended stay in Prague.       |    International Education, TEFL.  |
  | Working on second book about     | Central Europe:  Post revolution   |
  |   Prague and new Czech Republic  |    economic, social, political     |
  |   and a book about the B-25      |    problems and opportunities.     |
  |   in WWII.                       | B-25 in WWII.                      |
  | E-Mail:                          | Free lance writing and editing.    |
  |   USA:  [email-masked]    | Stamp collecting.                  |
  =========================================================================

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 21:39:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 8 AUG 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
TUESDAY, 8 AUGUST 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, B-25s are weathered out of their
primary target, the town of Shwekyina; the B-25s hit alternates, destroying
the Meza bridge and damaging 3 others, and bombing railroad tracks at several
points between Naba and Meza; weather severely curtails fighter-bomber
missions; and the detachment of the 315th Troop Carrier Squadron, 443d Troop
Carrier Group, operating from Shingbwiyang with C-47s returns to base at
Ledo, India.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 6 B-25s and 7 P-40s bomb a storage
area in Hengshan and destroy several trucks in the area; 29 P-40s hit gun
positions and targets of opportunity in the Hengyang vicinity; 14 P-51s and
P-40s hit bridge, trucks, and river craft at Siangtan while 8 blast trucks,
barges, and a compound between Siangtan and Hengyang; 12 P-40s attack river
shipping from Sinti to Hankow; 15 P-40s bomb storage areas and radio stations
at Amoy and Swatow.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Shuttle missions continue as 78
B-17s with 55 P-51s escort, leave bases in the USSR to hit airfields in
Rumania; 38 hit Bizau and 35 hit Zlistea; no Luftwaffe fighters are
encountered during the mission and the force flies to Italy.
  Mission 530: 414 B-24s and 265 fighters are dispatched to attack airfields
and V-weapon sites in France; 115 hit V-weapons sites in the Pas de Calais;
91 hit Clastres Airfield, 53 hit Romilly air depot, 50 hit La Perthe
Airfield, 12 hit Laon/Athies Airfield, 14 hit railroad bridges, 13 hit
targets of opportunity and 11 hit Bretigny Airfield; 1 B-24 is lost, 1 is
damaged beyond repair and 139 are damaged; 11 airmen are KIA, 9 WIA and 9
MIA. Escort is provided by 265 P-47s and P-51s; 2 P-51s are lost (pilots are
MIA).
  Mission 531: 681 B-17s and 100 P-51s are dispatched to bomb enemy troop
concentrations and strongpoints S of Caen; 25 Canadian soldiers are killed and
131 wounded by short bombing; 231 hit Cauvincourt, 99 hit Bretteville-sur-
Laise strongpoint, 99 hit St Sylvain strong point, 67 hit targets of
opportunity and 1 hits Gouvix strongpoint; they claim 1-0-0 Luftwaffe
aircraft; 7 B-17s are lost, 4 damaged beyond repair and 294 damaged; 8 airmen
are KIA, 15 WIA and 35 MIA. Escort is provided by 91 of 100 P-51s; they claim
4-1-6 aircraft; 3 P-51s are lost (pilots are MIA).
  41 of 50 P-51s escort RAF Coastal Command Beaufighters on a convoy strike
in Norway; 3 P-51s are lost and 3 damaged; 1 pilot is WIA and 3 MIA.
  175 P-38s, P-47s and P-51s fly a fighter-bomber mission against the
railroad N and W of Dijon; 2 P-47s and 2 P-51s are lost; 1 P-38, 1 P-47 and 1
P-51 are lost; 5 airmen are MIA.
  Mission 532: 5 of 5 B-17s drop leaflets in France during the night.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): Lieutenant General Hoyt S Vandenberg
assumes command of the Ninth Air Force.
  In France, 406 B-26s and A-20s bomb a rail embankment and bridges at 8
locations in N and W France, attack radar installations between Argentan and
Alencon, and give tactical support to ground forces near Saint-Malo; fighters
escort IX Bomber Command aircraft, give defensive air cover, and fly armed
reconnaissance E of Paris and in the battle area; and HQ 100th Fighter Wing
moves from St-Pierre-Eglise to Rennes.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Bad weather limits operations
to reconnaissance missions.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, medium bombers attack
targets in Po Valley and Rhone Valley in France, hitting bridges and railroad
tracks in or near Alessandria, and Avignon, Pont-Saint-Esprit, and along the
Var River in France; A-20s hit a storage dump and the nearby town of
Savigliano; fighter-bombers hit a barge in San Stefano al Mare harbor and
pontoon and railroad bridges nearby, and attack the Mantua causeway and
nearby bridges, scoring many hits and destroying several vehicles.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): Saipan Island-based B-25s bomb
Guam Island where effective resistance ends. B-25s from the Marshall Islands
hit Ponape Island while B-24s bomb Truk Atoll.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s bomb Yap
Island and Gagil-Tomil Island, Caroline Islands, concentrating on airstrips,
and airfields at Galela and Lolobata on Halmahera Island. In New Guinea,
B-24s hit Babo Airfield and the towns of Urarom and Manokwari; A-20s bomb a
radio station near Hollandia and hit troop concentrations in the Musu area;
fighter-bombers bomb bridges and buildings at Boram, troops at But, and guns
at Dagua; and HQ 71st Tactical Reconnaissance Group moves from Nadzab to Biak
Island.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
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08/0141Z AUG

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Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 19:06:50 -0700
From:    Ed Kettler <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Privateer

Tim,

I seem to recall that the US Forest Service in CO was flying a Privateer
as late as five years ago out of Jefferson County airport NW of Denver.
I was wondering if it was still flying.

Ed Kettler                                       [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Aug 1994 22:04:22 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: 50 Years Ago - 08-AUG-1944

>Admiral Takes Life - Washington has announced that Rear Admiral Don Pardee
>     Moon, 50, who commanded a task force in the Normandy invasion, committed
>     suicide in Washington on August 5th apparently as a result of combat
>     fatigue.

This suicide was connected with the surprise faux pas during Exercise
Tiger (qv. earlier this Summer on the list). During that exercise of a
small portion of the Normandy invasion task force, German PT boats
surprised and sunk 5 LST's killing about 800 allied personell. The
raid took place off the South West coast of Britian.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Wild, LAN Mgr.  Father of 1.8815          Voice:          (401) 792-2611
ACC - Lippitt - URI  American Legion Post 102. FAX:            (401) 792-5479
Kingston, RI  02881  NRA Life Member           BITNET:           AWild@URIACC
                                               Internet: [email-masked]

"Duties and responsibilities were woven into the fabric of pre-D-Day living.
It was a self-disciplined, free society that those troops cherished, and they
fought a war for it.

The Woodstock celebrants won a cultural war eliminating both the standards
of, and the respect for, self-discipline.

The spoils of that victory are numerous and devastating.
                                                          -John A. Howard
                                                           Rockford Institute
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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End of WWII-L Digest - 6 Aug 1994 to 7 Aug 1994
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