Subject: WWII-L Digest - 15 Aug 1994 to 16 Aug 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 00:00:36 -0400

There are 30 messages totalling 860 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. DOC:Re:"Interview with Ralph T.Briggs...Winds Message"
  2. Research topic (3)
  3. INF: USN Chronology 08-16-94
  4. H-BAR ENTERPRISES CD-ROMS?
  5. 50TH: NEW WAR MUSEUM IN TOKYO? (2)
  6. WEAP:  German Concrete Grenade
  7. FYI: Koreans in USSR
  8. INF: Jessie Sumner dies (3)
  9. German squad vs.... (5)
 10. INF: 50 Years Ago - 17-AUG-1944
 11. No One Wants the BAR (was German squad vs....)
 12. [INF] Wake Island revisited again.
 13. Media: Search for Hitler
 14. [INF] USAAF 17 AUG 44
 15. RESEARCH TOPIC (2)
 16. JAPAN PONDERS THE WAR
 17. [INF] WAKE ISLAND
 18. 50TH: NEW WAR MUSEUM I
 19. MEDIA: SEARCH FOR
 20. NO ONE WANTS THE B

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 00:37:01 EST
From:    "CARL WERNKE (TCWERNC@VCCSCENT)" <[email-masked]>
Subject: DOC:Re:"Interview with Ralph T.Briggs...Winds Message"

                  Congressional Investigation Pearl Harbor Attack (Pt2 of 2)
 To: Multiple recipients of list WWII-L([email-masked])
 X-To: [email-masked]
 To: Multiple Recipients of List WWII-L([email-masked])

 Jack,

 My post of 15 Aug direct to you at [email-masked] was not accepted
 for some unknown reason. My appologies to all for sending my reply to you
 via the net.--Your post of 15 Aug 94 06:57 EDT stated:
 >Which Congressional Investigation was this, i.e., what year?

  Roberts Commission, December 22,1941-January 23,1942.

 Carl Wernke   History Instructor       Tidewater Community College
 [email-masked]                Portsmouth, VA

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 00:54:35 EDT
From:    John Sloan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Research topic

HI Margaret,
my first rule on doing term papers and research reports is examine your
resources first, then pick a topic that can be generated from the available
references. Presuming a high school and a local city library, this would tend
to leave out foreign topics like what the British thought of buzz bombs. Next
question - is it strictly a written report or is an oral presentation
expected. If the latter then go with something for which exciting visuals are
available. Obviously 10 pages is not enough to cover much ground, so to
demonstrate research skills go with as narrow a topic as possible within the
guidelines of question #1. Lets be honest, we have to cater to the teacher as
well, so is the teacher interested in social history or drums and bugles
history? If the former, a possible topic would be the effect of WWII in your
home town. How did the selective service board operate, what about how
rationing was conducted and its impact in the town. Were there any war
industries that caused major changes in demographics or real estate, etc.?
How about an oral history collected from the local VFW and American Legion
post members? Was there any particular local town hero - Congressional Medal
of Honor winner?
just a few ideas. I am sure the list group will have tons more.
let us know how it is going.
john sloan

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 01:43:37 PDT
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 08-16-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
08/16 Wed.  United States naval vessels sunk, Southern France area:
             PT-202 and PT-218, by mines,
              43 d. 23'N., 06 d. 43'E.
             Motor minesweeper YMS-24, by mine,
              43 d. 25'N., 06 d. 43'E
            United States naval vessel damaged:
             LST 391, by mine, Normandy area,
              49 d. 38'N., 01 d. 37'W.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 14:27:15 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: H-BAR ENTERPRISES CD-ROMS?

  Has anyone seen any of the H-BAR ENTERPRISES CD-ROMS yet?
  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 17:46:08 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: 50TH: NEW WAR MUSEUM IN TOKYO?

  August 16, 1994

  The International Herald Tribune on August 15 carried a long story about the
struggle in Japan over how to view World War II.  Although there are a number of
people trying to bring out what really happened, it ends on a negative note:

"While the various 'aggression museums' are spreading their message, the
national government is moving ahead with plans for a giant $120 million war
museum that will reportedly portray World War II as something Japan should be
proud of.

"The proposed 'War Victim's Peace Commemoration Prayer Hall' is being built in
Tokyo next to Yasukuni Shrine, a shrine of the Shinto religion that honors
Japanese soldiers killed in World War II."

  Can anyone throw further light on this?

  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 08:07:16 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 50TH: NEW WAR MUSEUM IN TOKYO?

John, I find nothing about the proposed museum, but speaking of the
Shrine, there was this from Japan News agency.

            - Dan      <[email-masked]>

Seven cabinet ministers worship war dead at shrine
Source: JN      Date: Aug 15, 1994              Time: 02:00 am

  TOKYO, Aug. 15 --
  Seven members of the cabinet of Prime Minister and Social Democratic
Party head Tomiichi Murayama visited the controversial Yasukuni Shrine on
Monday to mourn the war dead on the 49th anniversary of Japan's defeat in
World War II.
  The Shinto shrine enshrines several Class A war criminals who were tried
and executed by Allied authorities in the aftermath of World War II.
  Cabinet ministers' visits to the shrine are controvertial since Japan's
postwar Constitution, drawn up by Allied occupation forces seeking to
eliminate any connection between the wartime Shinto state and politics,
stipulates separation of religion and the state.
  The visits followed on the heels of Sunday's resignation of Environment
Agency chief Shin Sakurai whose remarks that Japan did not intend to fight
a "war of aggression" in Asia during World War II touched off protests
from neighboring countries.
  Government spokesman Kozo Igarashi told a press conference the issue of
visits to Yasukuni Shrine should "be a matter of serious, but private
consideration, taking into account the feelings of people in neighboring
countries."
  "The important thing is that, at all times, we should face up to and
learn from past history while building future peace," Igarashi said.
  Only four cabinet ministers under former Prime Minister Morihiro
Hosokawa visited the shrine last year.
  This year, six LDP members and one New Party Sakigake (Harbinger) member
attended. . . .  Maeda, the first to arrive shortly before 8 a.m., told
reporters he did so as a private individual.
  Sakigake's Ide, who did not sign the visitors' book, refused to answer
when asked whether he visited the shrine in a public or private capacity.
  Economic Planning Agency chief Masahiko Komura signed the visitors' book
as a cabinet minister while Home Affairs Minister Hiromu Nonaka said his
private visit was "to give thanks for being able to live to now."
  "We have to bear the sins of having caused suffering to the peoples of
Asia," Nonaka said.
  International Trade and Industry Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto, who arrived
at the shrine in an official car, told reporters people could decide for
themselves whether he visited the shrine as a cabinet minister or a
private citizen. . . .

[With a tip of the virtual hat to DowVision and the original provider. In
the spirit of the Internet, this copyrighted material has been re-posted
for no personal gain. Deletions are shown with ellipses, thus: . . . .]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 07:46:10 CDT
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Research topic

War Brides would be a good topic if she is looking for something about
social history, or WAC's.

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 10:13:55 EDT
From:    Aerospace Engineer <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP:  German Concrete Grenade

 Since my T.V.'s fateful encounter with a bolt of lightning this weekend,
 I've had a lot of time to attack that long neglected reading list.  It was
 in _Handbook_of_German_Miltary_Forces_ (U.S. War Department, Louisiana State
 University Press, 1990) that I discovered a brief entry on the
 Behlefshandgranate-Beton (concrete improvised hand grenade).  It is
 well known that the Germans came up with some pretty novel ideas as the
 war turned against them but making grenades out of concrete (in order to
 save steel, I assume) is a new one to me.  Apparently the design is very
 similar to the standard german stick grenade except that the bursting charge
 is contained in a, yes, concrete head instead of a steal one.  Unfortunately,
 my source is a reprint of a book published before the war's end and contains
 only 37 words about this weapon.  Does anyone have more information on this
 or know of a more up-to-date source?  I wonder what else they made out of
 concrete?

 Thanks,

 Patrick Marsden
 [email-masked]

 P.S.  T.V.'s still in the shop.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 09:55:00 -0500
From:    "Colin Brace (617)726-5085" <[email-masked]>
Subject: FYI: Koreans in USSR

          There is an article in the new National Geographic about
          Crimea, in that article is a photograph of ethnic Koreans
          harvesting Watermelons. In the caption it says that their
          ancestors came there in the 1930's. There is no other
          specific reference in the article about Koreans in the USSR.
          Sorry, I don't have the magazine here for a specific page,
          only that it was on a right-hand page.

          Hope this is some interest on the current thread.

          Colin Brace WA1KWA

          [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 11:18:28 -0400
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: Jessie Sumner dies

>From the AP:

        "Former U.S Rep. Jessie Sumner, a Republican known as a staunch
isolationist before and during World War II, is dead at age 96.

        "Sumner died Wednesday [8/10/94].  At the time of her death, she
was still serving as president of Sumner National Bank, founded by her
father, Aaron Taylor Sumner.

        "She ran for Congress in 1938 and won by 11,000 votes on a platform
opposed to then-President Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal.  She served
until 1946, when she decided not to run for reelection."

        Is this the woman who cast the only dissenting vote against
the declaration of war?  Thanks.
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
It was a wasted trip, baby.  Nobody said
nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 11:21:09 EDT
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: German squad vs....

>The problem here seems to be the term "typical"; I've just started
>Stephen Ambrose's D-Day book, and early in it he makes the point >that 1
>in 5 Wehrmacht troops in France on D-Day were non-German,

That still leaves 4 out of 5 German troops. Some foreign troops attained
elite status in the Wehrmacht. I find it hard to base a judgement on one fact
"1 in 5". It only seems logical to me that one should gather all the facts
together and then make an opinion instead  of basing a judgement from one
MACRO history bokk on WWII.

 Why hasn't someone asked what the typical German and U.S. squads had in the
way of weapons, equipment, men and tactics?

 I doubt that this WWII list will come up with a correct answer for the
equipment, # of men, and weapons for a German infantry or Panzergrenadier
squad in 1944.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 11:23:28 -0500
From:    Michael D Wallick <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Jessie Sumner dies

 On Tue, 16 Aug 1994, Barone wrote:

> >From the AP:
>
>         "Former U.S Rep. Jessie Sumner, a Republican known as a staunch
> isolationist before and during World War II, is dead at age 96.
>
>         "Sumner died Wednesday [8/10/94].  At the time of her death, she
> was still serving as president of Sumner National Bank, founded by her
> father, Aaron Taylor Sumner.
>
>         "She ran for Congress in 1938 and won by 11,000 votes on a platform
> opposed to then-President Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal.  She served
> until 1946, when she decided not to run for reelection."
>
>         Is this the woman who cast the only dissenting vote against
> the declaration of war?  Thanks.
> --
> Joe Barone
> [email-masked]
> It was a wasted trip, baby.  Nobody said
> nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.
>
No. That was Jeannette Rankin, Republican, from Montana.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 09:38:29 -0700
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 17-AUG-1944

On 17-AUG-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Northern France - In Brittany, the German garrison at the St Malo citadel
surrenders. The American advance into the heart of France continues. Dreux,
Chateaudun and Orleans are captured. Futher north and west, the Canadian 2nd
Division (II Corps) captures Falaise. The damage to Falaise in the bombing and
bitter street fighting has been so severe that in many places it is impossible
to tell where the streets once were. The German 5th Armoured Army and 7th Army
are withdrawn from the pocket betweeen Falaise and Argentan under orders from
von Kluge without asking Hitler's permission. Hitler replaces von Kluge with
Field-Marshal Model.

Southern France - The Allies capture St Raphael, St Tropez, Frejus, Le Luq and
St Maxime. There is little German resistance.

Eastern Front - The German Army Group North counter-attacks in the area of
Siauliai, in Lithuania. The aim is to prevent Riga from being cut off. Further
south, the 3rd Belorussian Front reaches the border of East Prussia along the
river Sesupe.

New Guinea - The beachhead at Aitape is extended. The US 43rd Division
advances in all directions. On Numfoor Island, the US 503rd Parachute Regiment
succeeds in engaging and destroying the greater part of the Japanese garrison.
On Biak Island Japanese resistance is almost exhausted.

Foreign Affairs
---------------
Refuge For Hungarian Jews - The State Department has notified Hungary through
the International Red Cross that they will give temporary refuge to all Jews
permitted to leave Hungary.

The Homefront
-------------
Service Men Replace Strikers - Army and Navy service men have replaced 400
laborers on strike at the Bethlehem Steel Corp. shipyards at Hoboken, N.J. and
Brooklyn, N.Y.

Polio Outbreak Reported - The National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis says
outbreaks of the disease have reached near-epidemic proportions in five
states. In New York, North Carolina, Kentucky, Pennsylvania and Virginia 4,182
cases have been reported so far this year.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  [email-masked]
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 12:59:21 -0500
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German squad vs....

In response to the question "whay hasn't someone asked what the typical US
and German squads had in the way of weapons, equipment, men, and tactics..."
my guess is twofold;
        1.) I was assuming respondants had a pretty good idea about that
            already, and that the discussion could cut to the chase in
            terms of where the advantage lay in terms of specifics
        2.) The difference between the composition of a squad on paper
            and what actually may have been found in the field was often
            such as to make those kind of comparisons less valuable than
            it might at first appear, at least if we're talking about
            reality here (not an idealized gaming situation)... also,
            as many have already pointed out, what was a "typical"
            squad???
Having said that, and typing this from work (far removed from my copies
of source materials like the US Army Handbook and its German companion)
off the top of my head throughout most of the war the German squad had
9-10 men with one or two MG34 or MG42 (generally, panzergrenadier had
10 men w/2 mgs, regular infantry 9 or 10 with 1 mg, at least by 1944,
which is the period under discussion).  The rank and file were armed
with the Mauser 98k bolt-action rifle, except that the feldwebel usually
had an MP40, and one or two men in the squad might also have MP40's
instead of the Mauser.  Some German tables of organization called for
one sniper's version 98k (or, alternatively, a G43 with scope) in each
squad.  The US squad, if I remember correctly, was usually at least a
dozen men, ideally up to 16, armed with M1 rifles (semiautomatic) and
one BAR.  Again, this could vary widely, especially for the German units
(ie, the provision of G43 semi-auto's or MP44 "assault rifles" in some
outfits by 1944, a major upgrading of personal firepower compared to the
98k).   Tactics I don't have the time to venture far into, but it seems
that both sides utilized the same concept of holding the enemy in place
through fire while a portion of the squad tried to move into a more
advantageous position, preferably in the flank or rear of the enemy
position facing them.  I think Patton described it as "hook 'em by the
nose with fire, then kick 'em in the pants with fire emplaced through
movement."  This, of course, refers mostly to tactics in advance or in
a meeting engagement.  In the US squad I believe there would be more
emphasis on the individual riflemen moving while the BAR centered a fire
support team, while in the German squad the machinegun was the key weapon
to be emplaced through movement in the most advantageous position.  My
own thoughts on this difference are that the superiority of the MG42 over
the BAR, on the one hand, and of the M1 over the 98k on the other, could
in large part account for the tactical differences.  The influence of
British squad (section) tactics on the US approach might also be a factor
(they tended to use the Bren as fire support for movement by the riflemen).

I don't want to go on any longer as I'm shooting from the hip here...
However, I'm wondering about the rather challenging tone of the original
message I quoted above.  Maybe I just need another cup of coffee, but are
we all supposed to go out and dig deep into our sources to prove this list
isn't all lightweights??  If the person who posted the above message has
a ton of good hard data, please enlighten us and save us the work (of
course, naming sources is de rigeur when you send a message like that)...
or, if this is a test, how many credits do we get if we pass??

Regards

Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 13:06:33 -0400
From:    "Mr. Scott Hannon" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German squad vs....

Gruppen writes:
>I doubt that this WWII list will come up with a correct answer for the
>equipment, # of men, and weapons for a German infantry or Panzergrenadier
>squad in 1944.

Check in the US War Dept's Handbook on German Military Forces, republished
a couple years and still widely availble. Also Buchner's German Infantry
Handbook (also still available). These will give the tactics and TOEs if
that's what you're after. Of course, these won't be "correct" answers for
the "typical" unit, but...  :^)

For a comparison of US/German operational-level battle performance in late
1944, see Bonn's recent book When the Odds Were Even.

Scott.
Scott Hannon, Tue Aug 16 1994 ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 14:36:35 -0400
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German squad vs....

Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]> writes:
> ... Tactics I don't have the time to venture far into, but it seems
> that both sides utilized the same concept of holding the enemy in place
> through fire while a portion of the squad tried to move into a more
> advantageous position, preferably in the flank or rear of the enemy
> position facing them.
> ... In the US squad I believe there would be more
> emphasis on the individual riflemen moving while the BAR centered a fire
> support team, while in the German squad the machinegun was the key weapon
> to be emplaced through movement in the most advantageous position.

        Command magazine (there's that magazine again!) covered this
comparison in their 9/92 issue (I actually have the reference this time!).
The one difference is that they compared the German squad of 1941 to the
American squad of 1944, reasoning that the German squad of 1941 was at
its prime (due to training).  I may summarize as time permits.

        I recall reading somewhere (Usenet, perhaps) that the German
tactic was to take out the BAR man first, if possible, then bat cleanup.
That same unknown source alleged that, for that reason, no one liked
carrying the BAR (kind of like the lone British Firefly in a platoon of
Shermans).  Any verification on this?
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
To a New Yorker like you, a hero is some kind of weird
sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Tigers!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 15:49:25 EDT
From:    STeven Vest <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: No One Wants the BAR (was German squad vs....)

Folks:

     I can't vouch for not wanting to carry the BAR.  But my father used to
say that when he was in the Pacific they'd draw straws to see who would
carry the Bazooka or Flame Thrower (regardless of who was trained on the
weapon).  It seems that the Japanese snipers always picked them off first.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
STEVEN VEST            *      "IT SEEMS I WOKE UP IN THE BATHTUB, IN AN
PURDY/KRESGE LIBRARY   *       UNDIGNIFIED POSITION.  MY SCEPTER AND MY
WAYNE STATE UNIVERSITY *       HOLY HENCHMEN GONE." --DAVE GORDON
[email-masked] *       --I DREAMED I WAS CARDINAL RICHLIEU--
________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 13:36:26 -0700
From:    Jim Curry <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [INF] Wake Island revisited again.

On Mon, 15 Aug 1994, Robert Hohlt wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Today while cleaning out some old posts gathering net dust in my
> directory I remembered these 2 posts which still bother me.  The
> topic was Wake Island and the 2 posters wrote this:
>
> Mike Oaks  Fri, 17 Jun 1994 10:36:34:
>
> >[ much deleted ] ...did the Japanese just abandon the island toward
> >the end of the war when reality started to sink in?? Anybody have any
> >facts on this subject???
>
> then Jim Curry Fri, 17 Jun 1994 11:31:36:
>
> >Wake Island actually fell on 23 December 1941.  The Japanese held it
> >for the rest of the war like many other islands bypassed in the
> >"island-hopping" Central Pacific offensive.  It was bombed several
> >times by US aircraft but not considered worth the casualties it
> >would have cost to retake.  The Japanese garrison surrendered in
> >September 1945.  A well-illustrated short account of Wake Island
> >in wartime is Stan Cohen's _Enemy On Island: Issue In Doubt_
> >(Pictorial Histories Publishing Company,1983) which I consulted
> >on this question.
>
> Ok now here is the part that still bothers me.  There were a number
> of civilian workers on Wake helping to strengthen its defenses before
> and during the battle.  I have read somewhere (* but I can't remember
> where *) that the civilians were executed or murdered on Wake before
> the Japanese left the island?  Does anyone have any other information
> on what happened to the civilian workers on Wake?  Were they moved
> into internment?  Murdered?   What??????
>
> Hope one or more of you can help me.
>
> Jim Curry, is this information in
> Stan Cohen's _Enemy On Island: Issue In Doubt_?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
> Robert Hohlt, Jr.
>
Hello, Robert!
I checked Cohen's book, and he does have information.  On page 55 he tells
us that most of the civilian construction workers were put aboard the
Japanese transport Nitta Maru along with the captured Marines, to
imprisonment in camps near Shanghai. Several hundred more prisoners were
shipped out early in 1942. 98 American civilians were kept on the island
to operate heavy equipment.  These men were executed by the Japanese on
7 October 1943.  Admiral Sakaibara, the island commander, was executed
for this after the war.
Jim Curry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 15:36:06 -0500
From:    Joe Pohlmann <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Research topic

        If she is looking for something more from the actual conflict, what
about focusing on a specific battle or siege?  The battle of Kursk in early
July, 1943 would be a good one.  You should be able to find some information
on it.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 13:52:27 -0700
From:    Jim Curry <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Media: Search for Hitler

Ian Fleming didn't invent SMERSH! That was the actual acronym of Soviet
wartime counterintelligence (part of the NKVD,the predecessor of the
KGB, I think). The name is an abbreviation of the Russian phrase meaning
"death to spies".
 Jim Curry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 14:22:03 -0700
From:    Jim Curry <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Jessie Sumner dies

The only member of Congress to vote against entrance into WWII wasn't Sumner
but Jeannette Rankin, Republican Congresswoman from Montana.
Jim Curry

On Tue, 16 Aug 1994, Barone wrote:

> >From the AP:
>
>         "Former U.S Rep. Jessie Sumner, a Republican known as a staunch
> isolationist before and during World War II, is dead at age 96.
>
>         "Sumner died Wednesday [8/10/94].  At the time of her death, she
> was still serving as president of Sumner National Bank, founded by her
> father, Aaron Taylor Sumner.
>
>         "She ran for Congress in 1938 and won by 11,000 votes on a platform
> opposed to then-President Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal.  She served
> until 1946, when she decided not to run for reelection."
>
>         Is this the woman who cast the only dissenting vote against
> the declaration of war?  Thanks.
> --
> Joe Barone
> [email-masked]
> It was a wasted trip, baby.  Nobody said
> nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.
>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 18:17:23 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German squad vs....

On Tue, 16 Aug 1994 [email-masked] wrote:

>  I doubt that this WWII list will come up with a correct answer for the
> equipment, # of men, and weapons for a German infantry or Panzergrenadier
> squad in 1944.

You might start with reading *Sie Kommen!* by Paul Karl Schmidt, which
was Englished as *They're Coming!" by Paul Carrel, which focuses on a
Grenadier (not Panzergrenadier) company at Utah Beach on 6 June 1944.

The company was commanded by a decorated and wounded veteran of the
Eastern Front who was rusticated to Normandy and put in charge of 100 or
so over-age reservists.

They did not sound very formidable.

            - Dan      <[email-masked]>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 21:06:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 17 AUG 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 17 AUGUST 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 47 fighter-bombers support ground
forces in the Pinbaw area; 9 B-25s bomb Katha; 12 fighter-bombers pound the
town areas of Nanyinbya and Bilumyo; and 12 other fighter-bombers attack
artillery positions and storage areas in the Momauk area. India is cleared of
all Japanese forces.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 25 B-24s blast Yoyang; 18 B-25s
bomb the railroad yards and storage area at Chiuchiang and 4 hit the road and
airfield in the Hengyang area and storage buildings at Nanyo; 100+ P-40s,
P-51s, and P-38s on offensive reconnaissance attack town areas, bridges,
hangars, supply dumps, railroad targets, and road and river traffic in E
Burma, around Hsenwi, Tungling, and Tengchung, and throughout the Tungling
Lake-C Yangtze River area, particularly in the Hengyang area. In French
Indochina, 8 P-40s attack shipping in the Haiphong area and between Dong
Trieu and Ha Duong.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Three missions are flown:
  1. Mission 558: 10 B-24s are dispatched to drop Azon missiles on the Les
Foulous, France rail bridge but the mission is abandoned due to
deteriorating weather.
  2. Mission 559: 1 B-17 drop a BATTY TV bomb on the port area at La Pallice,
France.
  3. Mission 560: 7 of 7 B-17s drop leaflets in France during the night.
  Fighter-bomber missions flown by the VIII Fighter Command:
  1. 397 P-38s and P-47s hit the Paris/Brussels area; they claim 3-0-3
aircraft; 1 P-47 is damaged.
  2. 318 P-51s are dispatched to hit communications targets; 7 P-51s are
lost (pilots are MIA) and 4 are damaged; 1 pilot is WIA.
  33 B-24s fly CARPETBAGGER missions during the night.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In France, 400+ A-20s and B-26s bomb
road bridges at Montfort-sur-Risle, Pont-Audemer, Nassandres, Beaumont-le-
Roger, Le Bourg, Brionne, and Beaumontel, and a rail bridge at La Ferriere-
sur-Risle; fighters fly ground force cover over Saint-Malo and Dreux and
armed reconnaissance in NW France; IX Tactical Air Command fighters attack
and severely damage Gestapo HQ near Chateauroux; and HQ 406th Fighter Group
and 512th, 513th and 514th Fighter Squadrons move from Tour-en-Bassin to
Cretteville with P-47s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 53 B-17s, with fighter cover,
bomb Nish Airfield, Yugoslavia. 250 B-24s, escorted by P-51s, bomb 3 oil
refineries and targets of opportunity in the Ploesti, Rumania area.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In France, despite bad weather,
medium bombers attack railroad bridges leading to the beachhead area of the S
coast and hit coastal guns SW of Toulon; A-20s hit motor transport during the
night and drop ammunition to invasion forces; fighter-bombers and fighters on
armed reconnaissance and patrol score excellent results against motor
transport and rail cars and destroy several airplanes on airfields in the S.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-24s from Saipan Island bomb
Iwo Jima Island Island. Makin Island-based B-25s hit Ponape Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s pound
airfields on Ambon and Ceram Islands and Boeroe Island in the Sunda Islands.
B-25s strafe installations at Dili on Timor Island, on Moloe Island and Kai
Islands in the Molucca Islands; and B-25s sink a transport vessel off
Halmahera Island. In New Guinea, A-20s bomb Klamono oil fields while fighter-
bombers hit gun positions, storage areas, and other targets at Ransiki and
Manokwari and troop concentrations along the N shore of MacCluer Gulf; on
Biak Island P-40s, supporting ground forces landing at Wardo, pound shore
positions and troops inland as the enemy remnants on Biak Island break up
into small groups; P-39s strafe troops from Cape Wom to the the Dandriwad
River and near But, and hit gun positions at Marubian; HQ 5th Bombardment
Group (Heavy) moves from Los Negros Island to Wakde Island; HQ 22d
Bombardment Group (Heavy) moves from Nadzab to Owi, Schouten Islands; and the
68th Fighter Squadron, 347th Fighter Group, moves from Bougainville Island,
Solomon Islands to Middleburg Island with P-38s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
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17/0108Z AUG

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 21:37:52 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: RESEARCH TOPIC

One very popular topic with last year's History Day competitors was the Marine
Corps' Navajo Code Talkers in World War II. Contact me at [email-masked] for
further information. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 21:37:57 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: JAPAN PONDERS THE WAR

As far as I am concerned, until Japan apologizes and acknowledges its guilt for
the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor even as its envoys were conferring with U.S.
officials in Washington, and until the country acknowldges its guilt and
complicity in the Bataan Death March, the inhuman treatment of POWs, its guilt
in the Rape of Nanking, and admit its medical experiments a laMengele, whatever
it has done since that time is of little or no interest to me or to a whole
generation of U.S. Pacific War veterans. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 21:39:59 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [INF] WAKE ISLAND

As a matter of historical interest, when LtCol Evans Carlson was finally able
to get his men in their rubber boats and off of Makin to return to their
submarine, he inadvertently left nine Marines on the island. They quite
probably didn't get the word to evacuate and the situation wa such a muddle
that there was no accurate count made of the Raiders who landed and of those
who returned to the sub. In any case, when the Japanese returned to Makin, the
took these men prisoners. Admiral Abe later ordered them executed, and for this
he was hanged as a war criminal after his trial on Guam following the end of
the war. Then there is the case of Japanese cannibalism, feeding on downed Navy
pilots, who were captured off Chichi Jima. You can out about this in Robert
Sherrod's "History of Marine Corps Aviation in World War II." Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 21:42:15 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: RESEARCH TOPIC

John, you always have the perfect answer. Hope you've had a good summer and I
look foward to seeing you at the first Military Classics Seminar.Ben

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 21:48:35 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: 50TH: NEW WAR MUSEUM I

If the Japanese do that, then they've got more unmitigated gall/chutzpah than I
ever thought that they had.Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 22:16:09 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: SEARCH FOR

The Russian for SMERSH is smyert spionem, death to spies. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 16 Aug 1994 22:16:13 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: NO ONE WANTS THE B

It was somewhat of a standing joke in the Pacific War Marine Corps that the
shortest guy in the squad would carry the BAR. By the way, by 1944, the Marine
infantry squad was comprised of three 4-man fire teams and a squad leader.
Every fire team had an automatic weapons man, generally carrying the BAR. In
the Banana Wars, the automatic weapons guy would be armed with either a BAR or
a Thompson submachine gun. Just some lore of the Corps. Ben Frank

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 15 Aug 1994 to 16 Aug 1994
*************************************************