Subject: WWII-L Digest - 16 Sep 1994 to 17 Sep 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 00:00:47 -0400

There are 25 messages totalling 1057 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Geographical situation and treatment of German POW (6)
  2. WEAP:(?)  Foo Fighters
  3. WEAP:(?)  Foo Fi...
  4. INF: USN Chronology 09-17-94
  5. Mac and the Philippines (was Peleliu and Morotai)
  6. Damien Parer and Peleliu
  7. PELELIU (2)
  8. Moscow notes offer/New trip(s)
  9. Seebees and SAS
 10. INF: 50 Years Ago - 18-SEP-1944
 11. MAC AND THE PHILIP
 12. Bletchley Park
 13. Hornet, Bennington, Oriskany Correction and Update
 14. Midway (CV41) Update
 15. [INF] USAAF 17 SEP 44
 16. [INF] USAAF 18 SEP 44
 17. [INF] USAAF 19 SEP 44
 18. Thanking everyone on replies of German POW (2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Sep 1994 23:45:38 -0400
From:    Pascal Sauve <[email-masked]>
Subject: Geographical situation and treatment of German POW

We've all seen movies like Stalag 17,the Great Escape or Hogan's Heroes
depicting life and escape attempts of allied prisoners in a more or less
humorous way but are there any movies or documentation that shows where
German prisonners were held in Allied lands.What was life in these camps?
Was it any different than Allied prisonners?

Pascal Sauve
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Sep 1994 14:27:44 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP:(?)  Foo Fighters

>
> This may or may not be the best forum for this topic
> but it does sort of fall under the WWII umbrella.
>
> "Foo Fighters" were phenomena reported over Europe
> by Allied aircrews starting in early 1945.  Generally
> they were discribed as fireballs and lights which
> followed Allied aircraft and were capable of great
> velocities.  The assumption was that they were some
> sort of radio controlled tracking devices sent up
> by the Germans.  Since then, they have been described
> as UFO's and have fallen into the 'flying saucers'
> catagory.
>
> My question is:  From a WWII point of view, what were
> these things?  Did the Germans really have radio
> controlled fireballs which tracked allied bombers?

No.  The Germans and Japanese ALSO saw them and thought they were ALLIED
devices.

Doubtless the Soviets saw them too.  Someone ought to do some research in
that regard.

> I've never seen anything remotely like this in the German
> arsenal and as a aerospace engineer, I really doubt this
> explaination.  Does anyone know where and under what
> circumstances these stories started?  A good credible
> reference or more details?
>

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 02:10:46 EDT
From:    Jim Bowman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP:(?)  Foo Fi...

I have talked to two pilots who concured that when some of the old plexiglas
used to delaminate they would see what appeared to be lights outside the the
window.  For what it's worth, they both explained the appearance of UFO's
over France in this way.  Towards the end of the war, they said, the cosmetic
maintenance of some of the aircraft was getting pretty bad.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 01:18:23 PDT
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 09-17-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
09/17 Sun. Army troops land on Angaur, Palau Islands, supported
           by carrier-based aircraft and naval gunfire.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 16:40:47 +0700
From:    "Peter E. Beal" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Mac and the Philippines (was Peleliu and Morotai)

There was a question of the next objective after the Mariannas.  Formosa
and even the coast of China were on the list, in addition to the Philippines.

The real question is, was possession of Okinawa and the Marianas
sufficient to mount an invaision of Japan?  Were the Philippines, or
rather the facilities there, required for this purpose?  Were they need
for the invaision on Okinawa itself?

Clearly, an efficient strategy would have been to take only those parts
or islands of the Philippines required for future operations.  If that is
so, and attacks on other Philippine Islands were a waste of manpower, so
say nothing of other resources, what were the Australians doing mucking
about in Borneo?

This must have been discussed in one of the "Green Books".  Someone on
this list must have read the appropriate volume.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 21:32:34 +1523847
From:    Kevin Noonan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Damien Parer and Peleliu

Folks

With the discussion here (and elsewhere) about Peleliu I thought I would
mention that a new book has been published on the Oz cameraman Damien
Parer who won (for "Kokoda Front Line") an Oscar during WWII for his frontline
filming ... He died on Peleliu (Japanese machinegun) on Sep 17 1944

The book is called Damien Parer: Cameraman and is published by the
Melbourne University Press and was written by Niall Brennan

Kevin Noonan
[email-masked]

Credit given only to people over 75 accompanied by their parents

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 07:56:00 -0500
From:    Drew Halevy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: PELELIU

Here in Fayetteville, we have a statewide paper, the Arkansas
Democrat-Gazette (a merger of two papers about three years ago) and they
have been running a daily coulum (what a hard word to spell at 8:00 am)
of the war fifty years ago today. It covers Europe, Pacific and the
homefront, and it is quite interesting.-Drew

Drew Halevy
Department of History
University of Arkansas
[email-masked]

On Thu, 15 Sep 1994, Ben Frank wrote:

> 50 years ago today, young American warriors of the 1st Marine Division stormed
> the shores of Peleliu opening what was to become one of the bloodiest battles
> in the Pacific. We, of those who survived, are grateful that we made it and we
> constantly remember those of our buddies who didn't and will always remain
> young in our memories. By the way, The Washington Post didn't see fit to
> commemorate this day with even a two-liner. Did the newspapers in the cities of
> the members on the list also forget/neglect to commemorate this day? Ben Frank
>

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 06:24:32 -0700
From:    Eric Fenster <[email-masked]>
Subject: Moscow notes offer/New trip(s)

1) This is a repeat, but many people have returned to .EDU IDs since the
previous post...
   I've written anecdotal observations about the situation in Russia
based on a study trip to Moscow during May and June. They are similar to the
notes written and distributed in 1992 and 1993.  To give the flavor, the
opening paragraphs are reproduced below.
   A copy (file=38K) is available for the asking.

   * PLEASE SEND REQUESTS TO MY MAILBOX, not to this list/conference *

   The daily schedule we followed during the trip is attached to the notes.

2) A similar study trip is now planned for 27 May-27 June 1995 and is open to
all interested adults. If you would like advance information for yourself or
colleagues, please let me know. And if there is expressed interest, a
beginning Russian course could probably be held at the same time (but one
week longer).

3) I would like to organize a trip during the first three weeks of May which
would include a focus on the 50th anniversary of the end of WW2, meetings
with Russian war veterans, etc. I need to know if there is demand before
deciding any arrangements.

4) A space sciences-oriented study trip, including a visit to a Russian
launch site, now seems quite possible. I don't yet know the dates, but will
keep those request so informed.

Eric Fenster

[email-masked]

==========================
Moscow: 1994
------------
"You bastard! You're on my territory now.  Bastard! You come to Russia, and
I'll kill you!"

It was as foreordained as the beginning of a play.  We were seated and
waiting to take off for Moscow from Brussels when we heard this exchange
[offstage?] and a scuffle at the plane's entrance, whose view was blocked by
a closed curtain. The curtain opened and the words' author, blood on his
face, came forward to take a seat, then had another idea, turned, and threw a
parting punch at the Belgian gendarme who had escorted him aboard.

"Bastard!"
...

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 08:54:36 -0600
From:    Tony Schuler <[email-masked]>
Subject: Seebees and SAS

I am interested in knowing more of the seebees actions in the PTO.

I am also interested in learning more about the British SAS. Was the service
around during WWII?

Know of any sources where I can find information?

Thanks,

Tony Schuler
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 10:24:44 -0700
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 18-SEP-1944

On 18-SEP-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - Operation Market Garden continues. The British XXX Corps joins
up with the US 101st Airborne at Eindhoven and Veghel. Further north, both of
the other airborne divisions (US 82nd and British 1st) are fighting fiercely
to maintain their positions. The Germans send every man they can raise into
the line including a battalion of wounded.

Eastern Front - In the only major attempt to drop supplies allowed by the
Russians, 1284 containers are dropped to the AK by a force of B-17 bombers.
Only 228 fall in Polish held territory however.

Peleliu - The Marines attack the Japanese positions on Mount Umurbrogol. They
make very little progress and suffer very heavy losses.

Angaur - The US Infantry advance to the center of the island. In some sectors
they are mistakenly attacked by their own aircraft.

The Homefront
-------------
House Asked To Probe Pearl Harbor - Rep. Forest Harness, R. Ind. has
introduced a resolution to authorize a special committee to investigate
responsibility for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Harness says "if the
President is not responsible for this disaster he should be promptly cleared
... before the American people are called upon to pass judgement on his
fitness for reelection."

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "Facts On File Yearbook 1944,
Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  [email-masked]
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 10:48:51 -0700
From:    Jim Curry <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Geographical situation and treatment of German POW

There was a movie made about 20 years ago called "The Mackenzie Break"
and starring Brian Keith.  The plot involved the escape of a German U-
Boat skipper from a prison camp in Scotland.  It may have been based
on Otto Kretschmer's actual escape attempt from a camp in Canada. An
earlier movie entitled "The Man Who Got Away" made in Britain from a
book of the same name details the adventures of Franz von Werra,the
only German POW to actually escape from British custody (via  still
neutral United States!)
Nearly half a million German POWs were held in the United States during
World War II. The best book on this surprisingly little-researched topic
is Arnold Krammer's _Nazi Prisoners of War in America_ (Stein and Day,1979).
Krammer also wrote the introduction to Georg Gaetner's _Hitler's Last
Soldier in America_ (Stein and Day,1985).  Gaertner was an escaped
Austrian POW, who lived in this country until 1982, working as a ski
instructor.
Another interesting book is John Hammond Moore's _The Faustball Tunnel:
German POWs in America and Their Great Escape_(Random House, 1978.) This
is the story of a mass breakout by U-Boat personnel held in Arizona.

Jim Curry

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 16:09:43 CDT
From:    Henry Sirotin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Geographical situation and treatment of German POW

 About two or three years ago there was a fairly good TV docudrama about
a political murder in a German PoW camp in the US midwest and the American
civilian lawyer who was brought in to defend the accused. The gist of the
story was that, in the face of weak American administrators, a group of         Nazi fanatics had taken over the running of the camp. Don't remember much
else, but I'm certain it was based on a book previously published.

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 17:19:36 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MAC AND THE PHILIP

A better question would be "What were the Austrlians doing mucking about
Bougainville?" After the Marines landed in November 1943, the Army relieved
them, and the Army in turn was relieved by the Australians who mounted an
all-out offense against those Japanese remaining on the island who were not
bothering anybody and trying to keep body and soul together with the produce
grown in gardens in the SE portion of the island. The record will show that the
Australians suffered inordinate and unacceptable casualties, for what most of
we Monday Morning Quarterbacks consider to have been ridiculous at best. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 14:27:04 -0700
From:    Jim Curry <[email-masked]>
Subject: Geographical situation and treatment of German POW

After replying to Pascal Sauve's post earlier I realized I haven't answered
his last question about the treatment of German POWs.  So I'm adding a bit.
If you had to be a POW during World War II you were well advised to be an
Axis POW held in the United States. Food and quarters were much better than
your own army provided in Germany, Italy, or Japan. Germans held in US camps
usually put on weight.  Most escapees from American camps did so not with
the intention of getting back to the fighting fronts  but of staying in this
country--which several successfully did.  POWs were employed principally
in farm labor, mostly in the south and west.
The millions of German prisoners in US custody in Europe after VE Day didn't
fare so well. POW facilities there were overwhelmed by far more prisoners
than the US Army could care for.  As many as 50,000 may have died from
exposure, hunger, disease, or untreated wounds.  The situation was
uncomfortably similar to what had existed in both North and South
during the Civil War in such places as Andersonville or Camp Douglas.
However, charges that a million prisoners died or that the deaths were
the result of deliberate policy are totally untrue.
German prisoners held by the British were also well-treated.  Because of
Britain's precarious food situation, POWs held in the UK were often sent
to the US or to Commonwealth countries,especially Canada but also South
Africa or Australia.
At the opposite pole were German prisoners in Russian hands.  Like Soviet
prisoners of the Germans or Allied prisoners in Japanese camps they were
lucky to survive the experience.  Of the 100,000 prisoners taken at
Stalingrad only 5,000 ever got home alive.  Most German prisoners didn't
fare this badly,but great numbers died in Siberia or Central Asia of
cold,hunger,overwork and general brutality.  Most German POWs spent years
in the Gulag,many didn't get home until Karl Adenauer managed to get a
general release arranged in 1954. Even then many prisoners in Russia were
never accounted for. Some may be there even yet.

Jim Curry

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 15:45:40 -0700
From:    Jim Curry <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Geographical situation and treatment of German POW

Hello, henry!
I saw this same program in a recent rerun (Walter Matthau played the
lawyer.)  Whether this story is based on an actual incident I don't
know, but there were cases where hard-boiled Nazis did control camps
under the noses of American authorities.  Beatings and even murders
of anti-Nazis occurred.  The problem did lessen towards the end of
the war as it became obvious who was winning and Nazi diehards were
identified.
Jim Curry

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 18:10:27 CDT
From:    Henry Sirotin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Geographical situation and treatment of German POW

Dear Jim,

As I recall, it was based on a real incident, and very little, if anything,
was distorted in the presentation. One of the reasons the problem lessened
may have been that word got around on this crackdown.

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 18:02:00 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bletchley Park

Hi, Steve...
Heartening news, that a museum may be opened at Bletchley Park. Long
overdue tribute to the vital code-breakers of WW@.
        Would that I could report similar homage and respect was paid
in Canada for our counterpart establishment -- CAMP X.  The training
camp for Special Operations Executive agents, code-breakers, and radio
interceptors during the Second World War.
        Camp X was built on a farm outside the city of Oshawa, Ontario,
in what was then a hamlet, newly named Ajax (in memory of one of the
Royal Vany ships which helped sink the Graf Spee).
        Camp X was brilliantly successful, training several hundred
secret agents, saboteurs, and radio operators. Some of the very first
agents of the then-new Office of Strategic Services (OSS) were sent for
training from the United States. One of the camp's students was a certain
LCdr RN by the name of Ian Fleming. (He was a poor student, apparently.)
        Camp X was closed in 1945, and in fact demolished soon afterwards.
        Then, in 1986, I had the honor to be invited to a ceremony by
the government of Ontario held on the site of Camp X -- for the opening
of a memorial stone, to mark the spot in an open field where Camp X
had stood.
        For me, a highlight was to meet several ex-members of the camp and
some other Canadians who had worked for Sir William Stevenson's British
Security Co-ordination outfit in New York during the war.
        There has since been a first-class book written --
                camp x
                CAMP X,
                by David Stafford,
                Lester & Orpen Dennis, Toronto, 1986.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 18:31:18 -0700
From:    John Riegsecker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Hornet, Bennington, Oriskany Correction and Update

I decided to revist the Bremerton Naval Museum today when I could spend
more time there.  Hornet was indeed towed out last week and Bennington
followed on tuesday.  Oriskany is still there, but will be towed soon
(probably this next week.)  The actual departure time is difficult to
determine, but Helen Devine, the curator is going to try to learn the
departure time.

Incidently, Helen Devine was an incredible help.  There were two
conventions in town (Enterprise CV 6 was one of them) and she was
extremely busy, but took the time to help me with many questions.

The remaining carrier at Bremerton is Midway (CV41).  More on that in a
seperate post.

John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 18:37:49 -0700
From:    John Riegsecker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Midway (CV41) Update

I visited the Bremerton Naval Musem today and asked about Midway.  Helen
Divine, the curator told me that a group in Eureka California is trying
to save Midway.  It appears than there are no plans to restore her as
training ship.  Helen says she is not personally involved in the effort,
but is in contact with the man who is (like an idiot I forget to get his
name.)  The museum's phone number is (206) 479-7447 or if there is
interest I can get more information and post it.

John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 21:35:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 17 SEP 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SUNDAY, 17 SEPTEMBER 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): In the Kurile Islands, 2 B-24s abort a mission
to Suribachi due to weather. 4 B-25s fly an unsuccessful shipping sweep.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 8 P-47s bomb Katha, 8 hit Momauk
and Wanling, and 8 others attack Bhamo; 6 B-25s hit Mangshih while 3 others
bomb Indaw; 16 B-24s haul fuel to Liuchow, China; C-47s fly 200+ sorties
delivering personnel and supplies to various points in the CBI.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 29 B-24s bomb Changsha; 27 B-25s
hit Hwangshapu, Kiyang, and Nanyo; 130+ P-51s and P-40s on armed
reconnaissance attack town areas, strongpoints, shipping, railway targets,
gun positions, trucks, and other targets of opportunity from NE of Ichang
southward through Hunan Province and beyond; areas hit include Changsha,
Kiyang, Lingling, Chuanhsien, Siangtan, Hengshan, Kweiyang, and Lingkuantien,
plus scattered targets of opportunity elsewhere; the 35th Photographic
Reconnaissance Squadron, Fourteenth AF, moves from Kunming to Chanyi with
F-5s (flights are operating from Nanning and Yunnani).

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  AIRBORNE OPERATIONS (IX Troop Carrier Command): Between 17-26 Sep, the IX
Troop Carrier Command supports Operation MARKET-GARDEN as follows:
  Aircraft dispatched: 3,996 of which 3,634 are successful
  Gliders dispatched: 1,899 of which 1,635 are successful
  Losses: 98 aircraft and 137 gliders
  Troops dropped or landed: 30,481
  Vehicles dropped or landed: 1,001
  Artillery weapons dropped or landed: 463
  Tons of equipment, including fuel, dropped or landed: 3,559

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): The last UK-USSR-Italy-UK shuttle
mission (Operations FRANTIC) is completed as 72 B-17s and 59 P-51s fly
without bombs from Italy to the UK; 2 B-17s and a P-51 abort and a P-51
crashlands SW of Paris; 70 B-17s 57 P-51s land safely in the UK.
  Mission 637: 875 B-17s are dispatched bomb 117 flak batteries and
installations and an airfield, all in the Netherlands; 815 B-17s attack the
primaries and 6 hit Eisenach; 2 B-17s are lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and
119 damaged; 9 airmen are KIA, 6 WIA and 15 MIA. Escort is provided by 141
of 153 P-51s; 1 P-51 is lost (pilot is MIA).
  503 P-38s, P-47s and P-51s escort aircraft of the First Allied Airborne
Army making a parachute and glider drop of 20,000 troops into the Netherlands
to secure the axis of advance toward the Zuider Zee for the British Second
Army, as part of Operation MARKET-GARDEN, 17-30 Sep; troops dropped are the I
Airborne Corps, consisting of the British 1 Airborne Division (with Polish
Parachute Brigade) and US 82d and 101st Airborne Divisions; the fighters also
bomb and strafe flak positions and other ground targets, encountering intense
flak and about 30 fighters; they claim 7-0-0 aircraft in the air, 1-0-0 on
the ground and the destruction of 107 flak positions; 6 P-47s and 7 P-51s are
lost, 3 P-47s and 2 P-51s damaged beyond repair and 41 P-47s and 6 P-51s
damaged; 2 pilots are WIA and 11 MIA.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): No combat bomber missions are flown;
weather permits 1 leaflet mission. XIX Tactical Air Command supports US VIII
Corps in the Brest, France area and in Germany, flies armed reconnaissance
over the Trier and Saarbrucken areas and IX Tactical Air Command flies armed
reconnaissance in the Dusseldorf, Duren, Cologne, and Linz/Rhine areas,
supports the US 2d and 5th Armored Divisions and 4th Infantry Division in the
Netherlands, and participates in Operation MARKET-GARDEN. In France, HQ 84th
and 303d Fighter Wings move from St Quentin and Rennes, respectively, to
Vermand; the 507th Fighter Squadron, 404th Fighter Group, moves from
Bretigny to Juvincourt with P-47s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 440+ B-17s and B-24s, with
fighter escort, attack 2 oil refineries and 4 marshalling yards in the
Budapest, Hungary area in an attempt to hit Germany's principal remaining oil
supply and to aid the Soviet and other friendly forces on the S Russian front
by pounding the focal rail traffic point in that area; some of the escorting
fighters strafe targets of opportunity in the general target area. Bad
weather hampers all but 8 of 54 B-24s flying supplies to S France. 25
bombers return from Cairo, Egypt to Italy with Allied airmen formerly
imprisoned in Bulgaria; 2 B-17s, escorted by 41 P-51s, evacuate wounded
airmen from Czechoslovakia to Italy.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In France, the US Seventh Army's
French II Corps makes contact with the US Third Army's French 2d Armored
Division near Bains-les-Bains; and the 314th and 315th Fighter Squadrons,
324th Fighter Group, move from Amberieu to Tavaux with P-47s. In Italy, B-25s
hit troop concentrations in the British Eighth Army battle area in the
vicinity of Rimini; B-25s pound rail bridges in the W Po Valley, while
fighter-bombers operating in the Po Valley attack rails, roads, rolling
stock, road bridges, motor transport and other targets; in the mountains S of
the Po Valley US Fifth Army forces break through the Gothic Line at Il Giogo
Pass, take Monte Altuzzo and Pratone, finish clearing Monte Veruca, and gain
the crest of Monte Monticelli; and HQ 86th Fighter Group and the 527th
Fighter Squadron move from Poretta, Corsica to Grosseto with P-47s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): A B-24 on a snooper mission from Saipan Island
bombs Iwo Jima Island; armed reconnaissance over Marcus Island is
unsuccessful due to bad weather. Gilbert Islands-based B-25s pound Nauru
Island.

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force): Ground echelon of HQ 497th Bombardment Group
(Very Heavy) and the 869th, 870th and 871st Bombardment Squadrons (Very
Heavy), arrive at Isley Field, Saipan Island from the US (first mission is 28
Oct).

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-25s bomb Buayoan
Airfield on Mindanao Island. B-24s, B-25s, and P-38s hit Langoan Airfield on
Celebes Island. B-25s and P-39s, fighting bad weather, attack a variety of
targets, including airfields and villages in Amboina-Ceram Islands area. In
New Guinea, P-47s and P-40s pound the airfield on Samate Island.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

18/0138Z SEP

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 21:13:38 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: PELELIU

Hi Ben,... you said:

> <stuff deleted>     ... Yes, I know George McMillan's "The Old Breed: and
>I knew George very well, also. As a matter of fact, I was standing at the
>railing of our troop transport at Guadalcanal when George and a couple other
>combat correspondents came on board. "The Old Breed"is considered to be one of
>the finest unit histories to come out of WWII, and it is also very rare. 1st
>MarDiv WWII veterans were all sent a copy.

I'll check the white pages for Jim/his sons' address. I'm sure they will want
it if they're still alive. How it managed to get to the yardsale is beyond me.

>           ... It was known that there would be little water on Peleliu, so
>some dumbhead at division headquarters figured that gasoline or diesel oil
>drums could be steamed thoroughly enough to allow water to be put in them and
>sent through the surf to the shore. The water in them was foul, and many
>Marines became deathly ill from drinking it. Peleliu was hellishly hot and we
>needed water. It was a godsend that the captains of vessels in the invasion
>fleet heard about this and immediately sent cases of juices and fruits...
<stuff deleted>

The diary account that I have in mind to copy to the list mentions the water
problem... The heroism is also astounding; here's and example:

'Quoted from _The Old Breed_, McMillan

"On the edge of the airstrip today died a very good officer, while forming
our firing line - doing his duty - Lt. "Go-Go" Myers from Jersey City.
"Go-Go" was his nickname, a good officer. We called him by his nickname,
but in Marine Corps formality of course at the proper time. Lt. Myers was
hit by a sniper. The Lt. fell out of reach of the Marines unless they were
to expose themselves to enemy fire. Several boys started out after him not
considering their own lives, but the Lt. was quicker, he drew his pistol
and said, "Stay back. Stay back or I'll shoot." "Go-Go" soon died after
he was hit.

Amicably, Alan

Alan G. Wild
Admin. Computing
University of Rhode Island
Kingston, R.I.  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 21:45:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 18 SEP 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
MONDAY, 18 SEPTEMBER 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  F-13, Boeing Superfortress
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 9 P-47s pound Japanese positions
in the Myothit area; 8 B-25s hit supply dumps and installations at Chefang,
China; 18 B-24s fly fuel to Liuchow, China; and 200+ other sorties by C-47s
deliver men and supplies to several points in the CBI. The detachment of the
2d Combat Cargo Squadron, 1st Combat Cargo Group, operating from Yunnani,
China with C-47s returns to base at Sylhet, India.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 30 B-25s attack town areas and fuel
dumps at Lingling, Taohsien, and Chuanhsien and damage the approaches to the
Lingling ferry crossing; 4 B-24s over the Formosa Strait claim 1 freighter
sunk; about 115 P-40s and P-51s on armed reconnaissance attack troops,
trucks, tanks, shipping, town areas, and other targets of opportunity
throughout Hunan Province S of Tungting Lake to Luicbow Peninsula and
Chikhorn Bay; and the 529th Fighter Squadron, 311th Fighter Group, based at
Pungchacheng with P-51s, sends a detachment to operate from Hsian.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 3 missions are flown.
  1. Mission 639: 248 of 252 B-24s drop supplies to the First Allied Airborne
Army in the Netherlands; intense flak downs 7 B-24s, 6 are damaged beyond
repair and 154 damaged; 1 airman is KIA, 26 WIA and 61 MIA. 500+ P-38s, P-47s
and P-51s escort the B-24s, escort C-47s of the First Allied Airborne Army as
the second troop echelon is dropped in the Netherlands to participate in
heavy fighting around the Arnhem area; 2 fighter groups strafe rail and
highway traffic and 50+ fighters bomb flak positions; 100+ Luftwaffe fighters
attack; AAF claims 29-0-1 aircraft in the air; 20 fighters are lost, 9
damaged beyond repair and 46 damaged; 1 pilot is KIA and 20 MIA.
  2. Mission 640: In the last Operations FRANTIC mission, 107 of 110 B-17s
drop 1,248 containers of supplies to Polish forces in Warsaw; 1 B-17 is lost
and 7 damaged. Escort is provided by 137 of 150 P-51s (64 P-51s continue to
the USSR), they claim 4-0-0 aircraft in the air and 3-0-6 on the ground; 2
P-51s are lost (pilots are MIA).
  3. Mission 641: 8 of 8 B-17s drop leaflets in France, the Netherlands and
Germany during the night.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): Weather cancels all bomber activity;
<100 fighters support US VII Corps in W Germany and fly cover in the area of
Brest, France, where organized resistance comes to an end. In France, HQ 9th
Bombardment Division (Medium) moves from Marks Hall, England to Chartres; HQ
371st Fighter Group moves from Beuzeville to Perthes; HQ 387th Bombardment
Group (Medium) and the 556th, 557th, 558th and 559th Bombardment Squadrons
(Medium) move from Maupertuis to Chateaudun with B-26s; HQ 394th Bombardment
Group (Medium) moves from Tour-en-Bassin to Bricy; and HQ 409th Bombardment
Group (Light) and the 640th, 641st, 642d and 643d Bombardment Squadrons
(Light) move from Little Walden, England to Bretigny with A-20s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  AAFMTO: The 72d Liaison Squadron, AAFMTO (attached to Seventh Army), moves
from Lons-le-Saunier to Vesoul, France with L-5s.

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 463 B-17s and B-24s, some with
fighter escort, hit marshalling yards at Subotica and Szeged, Hungary and
railroad bridges at Novi Sad and Belgrade, Yugoslavia and Szob, and Budapest,
Hungary; fighters maintain cover over the Budapest area.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s continue to hit
troop concentrations and gun positions, in support of the British Eighth Army
forces which open an assault on defenses in the Rimini area; despite bad
weather B-26s and P-47s maintain attacks on bridges, rail lines, and
transportation in the Po Valley; HQ 47th Bombardment Group (Light) moves from
Salon, France to Follonica; HQ 320th Bombardment Group (Medium) moves from
Decimomannu, Sardinia to Alto, Corsica with B-26s; and the 525th Fighter
Squadron, 86th Fighter Group, moves from Poretta, Corsica to Grosseto with
P-47s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 2 B-24s on armed reconnaissance from Saipan
Island bomb Marcus Island. 28 Eniwetok Atoll-based B-24s bomb Truk Island.
Gilbert Islands-based B-25s pound Ponape Island.

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force): HQ 499th and 500th Bombardment Groups (Very
Heavy) arrive at Isley Field, Saipan Island from the US; and the 3d
Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron (Very Heavy), 11th Photographic Group
(Mapping), arrives on Saipan Island from the US with F-13s (the squadron will
fly photo, electronic and weather recon in the W Pacific, 1 Nov 44-Sep 45).

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s blast several
targets in the Davao, Mindanao Island area, including oil storage at Sasa.
B-25s hit Langoan Airfield and lake area on Celebes Island. Bad weather
forces B-24s over the Ceram-Amboina Islands area to individually attack
targets which include 4 airfields. In New Guinea, B-25s hit Samate Airfield
and fighter-bombers hit the airfield and town of Manokwari and AA guns at
Moemi; HQ 310th Bombardment Wing (Medium) moves from Hollandia to Morotai
Island; and the 371st Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 307th Bombardment Group
(Heavy), based on Wakde Island with B-24s begins operating from Noemfoor
Island.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

18/0147Z SEP

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 21:55:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 19 SEP 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
TUESDAY, 19 SEPTEMBER 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): In the Kurile Islands, 2 B-25s fly a shipping
sweep over Tomari Cape; and 4 B-24s off to strike Kurabu Cape turn back due
to weather and mechanical failures.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): 18 B-24s fly fuel to Liuchow and
Chengkuing, China. C-47s transports fly 100+ sorties carrying men and
supplies to several CBI locations.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 28 B-25s bomb Lingling,
Lengsbuitang, Chuanhsien, Sinning, and Shanhsien; 150+ P-40s and P-51s pound
numerous targets of opportunity during armed reconnaissance flights from the
Tungting Lake-C Yangtze River area to the S China Sea; and the fighter-
bombers particularly concentrate on road transport in the Changsha area and
supply dumps, buildings, and trucks near Sintsiang.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 642: 796 B-17s are
dispatched against marshalling yards in W Germany; weather prevents about
half from bombing primary targets but most manage to bomb targets of
opportunity; 7 bombers and 1 fighter are lost:
  1. Of 380 B-17s dispatched, all hit targets of opportunity, i.e.,
marshalling yards at Koblenz (87), Dillenburg (39), Limburg (37) and
Darmstadt (24); bridges at Limburg (35), Koblenz (25) and a bridge over the
Rhine River at Koblenz (13); and Wiesbaden (38), Wetzlar (14), the railroad
line at Koblenz (13) and Wiesbaden Airfield (12); 4 B-17s are lost and 159
damaged; 3 airmen are WIA and 37 WIA. Escort is provided by 131 P-47s and
P-51s; they claim 3-0-1 aircraft in the air; 1 P-47 is lost (pilot MIA).
  2. 416 B-17s are dispatched to hit marshalling yards at Hamm (186) and
Soest (32) and depot at Dortmund/Unna (64); other targets hit are
marshalling yards at Raesfeld (11), Wesel (9), Rheine (6) and Munster (3);
Dillenburg (11), Emmerich (7), Hamm (5), Osnaburck (2) and others (6); 3
B-17s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 120 damaged; 3 airmen are WIA
and 18 MIA. Escort is provided by 109 P-47s and P-51s without loss.
  100 B-17s and 61 P-51s takeoff from bases in the USSR and bomb the
marshalling yard at Szolnok, Hungary and continue to bases in Italy.
  172 of 182 P-51s supporting the First Allied Airborne Army in the
Netherlands engage 100+ fighters, claiming 23-4-14; 6 P-51s are lost, 1
damaged beyond repair and 2 damaged; 1 pilot is KIA and 6 MIA.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In Germany, B-26s hit marshalling
yards in the Duren area to prevent reinforcements from reaching the Aachen
area by rail; IX Tactical Air Command supports the US V Corps in repelling
a counterattack at the Wallendorf bridgehead, supports Operation MARKET-
GARDEN and flies armed reconnaissance in W Germany. XIX Tactical Air Command
escorts A-20s and B-26s, flies cover both for MARKET-GARDEN and in the Brest
and Nancy, France areas, and armed reconnaissance over Metz, Germany area;
HQ 100th Fighter Wing moves from Le Mans to St-Dizier; HQ 362d Fighter Group
and the 379th Fighter Squadron move from Rennes to Prosnes with P-47s; HQ
373d Fighter Group moves from St-James to Reims; and HQ 391st Bombardment
Group (Medium) moves from Matching, England to Roye/Amy, France.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 96 B-24s attack railroad
bridges at Kraljevo and Mitrovica, Yugoslavia; 70 P-38s provide target area
cover.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, bad weather grounds
medium bombers; fighter-bombers hit guns and defensive positions along the
Gothic Line and attack roads and bridges in the Bologna area; the 86th and
97th Bombardment Squadrons (Light), 47th Bombardment Group (Light), move from
Salon, France to Follonica with A-20s; the 95th Bombardment Squadron
(Medium), 17th Bombardment Group (Medium), moves from Villacidro, Sardinia to
Poretta, Corsica with B-26s; and the 441st and 444th Bombardment Squadrons
(Medium), 320th Bombardment Group (Medium), move from Decimomannu, Sardinia
to Alto, Corsica with B-26s. In France, HQ 64th Fighter Wing moves from St
Tropez to Dole.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 29 Saipan Island-based B-24s blast shipping at
Chichi Jima Island. 24 P-47s bomb and strafe AA positions and storage areas
on Pagan Island. 3 B-24s on snooper and armed reconnaissance missions bomb
Iwo Jima and Marcus Islands.

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force): Ground echelons of the 881st, 882d and 883d
Bombardment Squadrons (Very Heavy), 500th Bombardment Group (Very Heavy),
arrive at Isley Field, Saipan Island from the US (first mission is 11 Nov).

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: Striking all
principal targets in NE Celebes, B-24s, B-25s, and P-38s hit the Amoerang
port area, Menado fuel tanks and shipping personnel areas and AA guns at
Mapanget and Sidate, bivouac, supply areas, and lookout towers along Lembeh
Strait, Langoan Airfield, and Kakas rest camp. In New Guinea, HQ 8th
Fighter Group and the 36th Fighter Squadron move from Owi, Schouten Islands
to Morotai Island with P-38s; and HQ 347th Fighter Group and the 339th
Fighter Squadron move from Sansapor to Middleburg Island with P-38s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

19/0158Z SEP

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 23:13:01 -0400
From:    Pascal Sauve <[email-masked]>
Subject: Thanking everyone on replies of German POW

I would like to thank every one who replied on the subject "German POW
and their treatment". Special thanks to Jim Curry whom i believe brought
forward the best information so far.If anyone has more pertinent
information about this subject,please post it on this list or you can
e-mail me at:

[email-masked]

Pascal Sauve,B.sc (History)
University of Montreal

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 22:50:08 -0500
From:    William Russell Smith <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Thanking everyone on replies of German POW

> I would like to thank every one who replied on the subject "German POW
> and their treatment". Special thanks to Jim Curry whom i believe brought
> forward the best information so far.If anyone has more pertinent
> information about this subject,please post it on this list or you can
> e-mail me at:

  Hello Pascal (good name there.... reminds me of one of my favorite
characters in the book and movie _Centennial_). I am a new subscriber on
the list (today) and I missed your earlier posts. I thought I would inject a
personal anecdote about your subject in with my introduction.

  I am a technology consultant in West Texas and I have a lot of varied
interests besides computers. I graduated from the University of Houston
in 1976 with a B.A. in history (special interest in 20th century America)
and I taught history and computer literacy in high schools and middle
schools for the last ten years. My new job involves training teachers on
how to incorporate technology into the classroom.

  I am also a magazine and newspaper writer (I have a weekly column in
the Sweetwater Reporter News). History, politics, education, and
technology are my most frequent topics in my writings.

  My father was in the U.S. Army in 1943-45 stationed in California (Camp
Roberts among others). He still deligths in telling stories about his Army
days and he tells quite a few about German P.O.W.s. He had a number of
the German prisoners under his supervision and he said some of the S.S.
officers were really arrogant and several had been to college in America
before the war.

  He said when the Germans misbehaved he punished them by giving them
cold cuts for a couple of days. I guess he didn't get enough actual
combat because he now enjoys at age 69 playing the computer game
Wolfenstein. He is addicted to say the least and probably has the highest
score in the world to my knowledge (I'm not kidding!). He wore out two
Logitech mice this summer already and he's been zapping away every night.

  Another of his stories about the prisoners was that one day a U.S.
officer told a young American woman (wife of another officer) how to
speak a German phrase. She wanted to say something to the German POW's
and she did say it to the prisoner. Unfortunately the U.S. officer pulled
a prank and taught her a lewd sexual invitation in German. The German
just about fell over and the U.S. officer laughed his head off (at least
until the woman's husband found out about it!).

  Well, I've got to run. Looking forward to more interesting tidbits from
all the WWII buffs.

Russell Smith  [email-masked]       Home Phone 915-235-1228
Technology Consultant                  Home Fax   915-235-0633
Region XIV Education Service Center    Work Phone 915-675-8600
Abilene, Texas 79601                   Work Fax   915-675-8659

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 16 Sep 1994 to 17 Sep 1994
*************************************************