Subject: WWII-L Digest - 17 Sep 1994 to 18 Sep 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 00:00:46 -0400

There are 10 messages totalling 318 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Australia in the Pacific
  2. 50TH: LIBERATION OF PARIS
  3. GEN: ROLE OF ALASKA IN WWII
  4. Len Deighton
  5. INF: 50 Years Ago - 19-SEP-1944
  6. TRIV: American helmets
  7. Peleliu
  8. MoH Recipients
  9. Geographical situation and treatment of German POW
 10. Great need for torpedo reference

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Date:    Sun, 18 Sep 1994 16:44:24 +1523847
From:    Kevin Noonan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Australia in the Pacific

To quote two fellow list members

From:    "Peter E. Beal" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Mac and the Philippines (was Peleliu and Morotai)

and attacks on other Philippine Islands were a waste of manpower, so
say nothing of other resources, what were the Australians doing mucking
about in Borneo?

and

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 17:19:36 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MAC AND THE PHILIP

A better question would be "What were the Austrlians doing mucking about
Bougainville?" After the Marines landed in November 1943, the Army relieved
them, and the Army in turn was relieved by the Australians who mounted an
all-out offense against those Japanese remaining on the island who were not
bothering anybody and trying to keep body and soul together with the produce
grown in gardens in the SE portion of the island. The record will show
that the Australians suffered inordinate and unacceptable casualties, for
what most of we Monday Morning Quarterbacks consider to have been
ridiculous at best. Ben Frank

My turn now :)

A simple answer is that Mac wanted the "glory" for himself (and obviously
US forces) ... look at the press releases of the time.  Advances are US
advances, defeats are Allied defeats.

Doug was clearly into self agrandisement.

Australian troops were simply ordered to places as mentioned above for
pointless exercises against Japanese who could easily be left to "wither
on the vine"

The Australian Prime Minister (John Curtin) gave virtually absolute
control of Oz resources to Doug Mac.  General Blamey (the Oz Army commander)
complains of this even in the ofiicial histories

That these attacks were stupid and pointless is well known in Oz,
particularly by the ex-service personnel themselves who lost many mates in
these wasteful attacks

Kevin Noonan
[email-masked]

Bees are never as busy as they sound, they just don't know how to buzz slower

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Date:    Sun, 18 Sep 1994 21:28:11 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: 50TH: LIBERATION OF PARIS

  September 18, 1994

  I thought the list might like to see this.  It will be, I hope, my last
published word on the subject.  When they see it in the division association
publication, it will at least cheer up a bit other 4th Divisioners.

          LETTER TO EDITOR ABOUT LIBERATION OF PARIS

     As a result of L'EXPRESS (the French TIME) publishing excerpts from
LETTERS HOME, I got acquainted with Jean Lesieur, the foreign editor.
When I called to his attention that their article on the liberation of Paris
did not refer to the 4th Division, he had a talk with the journalist who wrote
it.  (He was the editor of the international edition.)  This man said he knew
about the 4th Division but did not have space to include a reference to its
role.  Lesieur then asked me to write them a letter.  It appeared in the
international issue of September 22, 1994 (No. 2254).  (L'EXPRESS has a
circulated of 650,000.)  The following is a translation.

BEGIN TEXT
     On reading the excellent article by Andre Poulard about the liberation
of Paris, I was disappointed that he made no mention of the role of the US
4th Infantry Division.  Moreover, by publishing a photo of the US 28th
Infantry Division marching through Paris on August 29, one gets the
impression that American forces arrived only after the liberation.
     On August 29, the 4th Division was well north of the capital,
occupied with helping to clear German forces out of the rest of France.
     For those of your readers not acquainted with this, the 4th Division
was bivouacked just south of Paris the morning of August 25, when it got
orders to clear the east part of the city.
     The First Battalion of the 8th Regiment of the 4th Division, to which
I was attached as artillery liaison officer, had the mission of guarding the
bridge at Choisy-le-Roi.  In the meantime, the 12th Regiment of the 4th
Division drove into the center of Paris.
     I will never forget the joy with which Parisians received us, which
compensated for the terrible combat we had experienced after landing on
Utah Beach on June 6.
     Unfortunately, all that seems to be forgotten today, as indicated by
the brief reference of (Prime Minister) Mitterand and (Mayor of Paris) Chirac
to the "aid of our allies" in their August 25 speeches.
     What hurts the veterans most - over 25,000 men of the division were
wounded or killed during the war - is the failure of French authorities to
recognize officially the role of the division.  The celebration of the 50th
anniversary of the landing provided an opportunity to recognize the 4th and
other divisions that were forgotten.  Sadly, this chance was missed.
     John C. Ausland, Oslo

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Sep 1994 10:19:20 -0500
From:    GEORGE BAUER <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: ROLE OF ALASKA IN WWII

I have just received a book called COBRAS OVER THE TUNDRA which is the story
of ferrying of airplanes from the US to Russia via Alaska.   The route
called ALSIB.  It is written
jointly by an American and a Russian, and has parallel text.  Most
interesting, including excellent photographs.

  =========================================================================
  | DR.  GEORGE R. BAUER             | INTERESTS:                         |
  |                                  | Computers in Business & Education. |
  | Recently returned from my second | Education:  Curriculum development.|
  |   extended stay in Prague.       |    International Education, TEFL.  |
  | Working on second book about     | Central Europe:  Post revolution   |
  |   Prague and new Czech Republic  |    economic, social, political     |
  |   and a book about the B-25      |    problems and opportunities.     |
  |   in WWII.                       | B-25 in WWII.                      |
  | E-Mail:                          | Free lance writing and editing.    |
  |   USA:  [email-masked]    | Stamp collecting.                  |
  |         [email-masked] |                                    |
  =========================================================================

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Sep 1994 13:00:35 -0500
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Len Deighton

I read Deighton's BOMBER and liked it very much.  Is BLOOD, TEARS AND
FOLLY about errors and disasters in the direction of the war or something
else? Can someone give me an idea?
Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Sep 1994 12:24:58 -0700
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 19-SEP-1944

On 19-SEP-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The British XXX Corps joins up with the US 82nd Airborne who
have captured the bridge over the Meuse at Grave. All British efforts to break
through the German defences at Arnhem fail. In Brittany, the German defences
finally fall and Brest is captured by the 8th Division.

Eastern Front - Heavy fighting is taking place between the 2nd Ukraine Front
and the North Ukraine Army Group. The 3rd Baltic Front captures Valga in
Estonia.

Peleliu - Bitter fighting rages on Mount Umurbrogol. The 1st and 7th Marines
are pinned down by the Japanese.

Angau - Stubborn resistance is being put up by the small Japanese garrision.

Morotai - The enormous superiority of MacArthur's 7th Amphibious Force (28,000
men) gives the US an easy victory over the small Japanese garrision manning
this little island.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "Facts On File Yearbook 1944,
Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  [email-masked]
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Sep 1994 15:39:05 -0500
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <[email-masked]>
Subject: TRIV: American helmets

Hopefully, this will not seem like too trivial a question.

In all the movies and pictures from around the time of Pearl Harbor,
American servicemen are wearing helmets similar (identical?) to those
worn in WW 1.  When did the GI pot (a la Bill Mauldin) replace it?  It
is impossible to imagine the war without that helmet.

Also, since the British apparently kept the same earlier style
throughout the war, did anyone ever do a study of wounds to the neck
and lower skull that might have been covered by an American-style
helmet?  The british-style doesn't seem to come lower than the ears,
so I assume they would have had more shrapnel wounds in that area
than the Americans.  Does anybody know?

Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Sep 1994 16:20:28 -0500
From:    "Danny G. Cox" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Peleliu

A couple of questions.

1.  Didn't President Roosevelt meet with MacArthur, and Nimitz, at which
time both presented their strategy about the Philippines.  MacArthur
wanting to retake them, & Nimitz wanting to skip over.  Then didn't
Roosevelt make the decision himself to accept MacArthurs wishes?

2.  If this meeting did take place was it before or after Peleliu?

+==================================+
|   DAN COX                        |
|   REPUBLIC, MO                   |
|   [email-masked]   |
+==================================+

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Sep 1994 17:59:51 EDT
From:    Brian Nicklas <[email-masked]>
Subject: MoH Recipients

Just ran across a position paper from the Air Force Assoc. dated
September 1992.  The paper is titled "1993 Manpower and Personnel
Issue Paper - Keeping Faith With the Force."
The last page (14) of the paper, under the heading 'Retirement'
holds a paragraph 'Medal of Honor Pension.'
I run the entire paragraph -
"Recipients of the Congressional Medal of Honor -- our nation's
highest military honor -- are currently entitled to a $200 pension
each month; this has been the rate since 1978.  The Medal (of) Honor
Society reports 206 recipients are living and 40 are below the
poverty level.  Legislation should be enacted to increase the
pension to $1000."

Sounds like a good idea.  Any knowledge of the ball being run any further?
I did not make it to the AFA annual meeting last week in Washington,
so I have no further  information or updates on current AFA standing
on the issue.Did anyone else attend the mtg. and get any info?
It might be interesting to see what the current number is (I imagine
smaller than 206) and what the breakdown by conflict is.
Just how many MoH awardees from WWII are still alive?

- Brian Nicklas

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Sep 1994 20:57:53 PDT
From:    Jim Brady <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Geographical situation and treatment of German POW

---------------Original Message---------------
Nearly half a million German POWs were held in the United States during
World War II. The best book on this surprisingly little-researched topic
is Arnold Krammer's _Nazi Prisoners of War in America_ (Stein and Day,1979).
Krammer also wrote the introduction to Georg Gaetner's _Hitler's Last
Soldier in America_ (Stein and Day,1985).  Gaertner was an escaped
Austrian POW, who lived in this country until 1982, working as a ski
instructor.
Another interesting book is John Hammond Moore's _The Faustball Tunnel:
German POWs in America and Their Great Escape_(Random House, 1978.) This
is the story of a mass breakout by U-Boat personnel held in Arizona.

Jim Curry
----------End of Original Message----------

Another well-researched novel of more recent vintage (1990?) was Douglas
Unger's *The Turkey War*, which had great literary quality but also depicted
some actual events including an escape and some corruption by US Army
administrators concerning prisoners wages withheld from Afrika Korps soldiers
put to work in a turkey slaughterhouse.

-- Jim Brady

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Sep 1994 23:49:00 EDT
From:    Robert Gannon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Great need for torpedo reference

For a book on WWII torpedoes that I'm winding up, I need to check a
couple of references in a volume produced by the Harvard Underwater
Sound Laboratory (HUSL) in 1946:  *Completion Report on NO-94 (Fido),
An Air-Launched Acoustic Antisubmarine Mine,* NDRC, Division 6.
The "publisher" was OSRD (Office of Scientific Research and
Development).  One of my sources lists the publication's author as
Frederick Hunt, head of HUSL.

My library's Interlibrary Loan people can't find a copy anywhere that
they can borrow for me.  But if one of you happens to have a personal
copy (or can easily look at one), I'd be extraordinary grateful if
you would check three or four page numbers for me.

Please send me a note, and I'll explain all.
======================================================================
Robert Gannon              |  Internet:  [email-masked]
35 Burrowes Building       |  Phone:     814 355-4800 or
Penn State                 |             814 355-0943
University Park, PA 16802  |  Fax:       814 863-7285

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End of WWII-L Digest - 17 Sep 1994 to 18 Sep 1994
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