Subject: WWII-L Digest - 18 Oct 1994 to 19 Oct 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 00:11:28 -0400

There are 33 messages totalling 1830 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. OSS-WILLIAM COLBY
  2. The ULTRA what-if (Axis Taking Russia from both ends) (4)
  3. Teaching WWII in Germany today. (4)
  4. INF: USN Chronology 10-19-94
  5. INF: 50 Years Ago - 20-OCT-1944
  6. HIST:  Taffy-3; USS Heermann
  7. HIST:  Taffy-3; USS Hoel
  8. Homefront: US: Baseball during WWII
  9. OSS-William Colby
 10. WEAP: CVE's
 11. Rumanian Army of WW2; General Mihail Lascar
 12. 50TH: MATERIAL FROM THE LONGEST DAY ARCHIVES
 13. TRIV: Helmet straps (6)
 14. TACT: Japan if no Pearl Harbor
 15. German post on Romania
 16. Rumania in WW2--Iron Guard, etc
 17. Rumanian Army in WW2 (& other Balkans forces)
 18. Crete
 19. Luftwaffe Rocket Fighters
 20. Aircraft wreck
 21. [INF] USAAF 20 OCT 44
 22. Recollections of the Point

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 00:48:58 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: OSS-WILLIAM COLBY

I suggest that you contact Colby personally. He lives in the Washington, DC
area and based on what I have seen and heard of his postretirement activities,
he may very well be willing to be interviewed. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 Oct 1994 23:24:52 -0500
From:    Oliver Bonham-Carter <[email-masked]>
Subject: The ULTRA what-if (Axis Taking Russia from both ends)

Does anyone know why Germany and Japan didn't both invade Russia at the
same time (unless they did)? If they had invaded (both starting at their
closest end of Russia) they could have easily taken it (that's if the weather
wasn't too cold...). That way, Russia would have been so pre-occupied that
their supplies and man-power would be streched to a minimum at both ends.
I thought I read something long ago that suggested a reason why they
didn't both invade at the same time, working their way towards the middle
(meeting each other). As memory would have it though, I've forgotton
almost everything, including the reading source (DRAT!)...

[email-masked]
 "This is it... so read it!"

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 Oct 1994 23:32:13 -0500
From:    Oliver Bonham-Carter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Teaching WWII in Germany today.

Does anyone know how the Germans teach WWII history today? From history
classes in this country (the US) the Germans get a bad wrap and were seen
as the "cold-hearted" enemy. Do they teach it the same way in Germany
today as the older generation were the "cold-hearted" enemy?

anyone been to Germany lately?

[email-masked]
 "This is it... so read it!"

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 04:00:14 PDT
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 10-19-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
10/19 Thu. Submarine NARWHAL (SS-167) lands men and supplies on
           southwest coast of Negros, P. I.
            United States naval vessels damaged, Leyte area, P.
             I.:
             Escort carrier SANGAMON (CVE-16), by horizontal
              bomber,
              10 d. 46'N., 126 d. 23'E.
             Destroyer ROSS (DD-563), by mine,
              10 d. 17'N., 125 d. 40'E.
             Destroyer AULICK (DD-569), by coastal defense gun,
              11 d. 13'N., 125 d. 02'E.
             Salvage vessel PRESERVER (ARS-8), by horizontal
              bomber,
              10 d. 50'N., 125 d. 25'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: Larry Jewell <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 04:32:22 -0700
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 20-OCT-1944

On 20-OCT-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The 1st Canadian Army begins an offensive driving northeast of
Antwerp. There is extensive flooding in the German rear after the dam at
Dieuze is breached.

Eastern Front - Belgrade is liberated by a combined attack by Tito's Partisans
and Russian units. The Partisans also capture Dubrovnik on the Adriatic Coast.
In Hungary, the Russians take Debrecen.

Italian Front - The British 4th and 46th Divisions enter Cesena. In the
central sector, the South African 6th Armoured Division repules a German
counter-attack.

Philippines - Landings occur on the east coast of Leyte. Four divisions from
two corps are landed. The X Corps - 1st Cavalry and 24th Infantry Divisions
land to the south of Tacloban. The XXIV Corps - 96th and 7th Divisions land
around Dulag. Fire support comes from three battleships as well as cruisers
and destroyers. The cruiser Honolulu is badly damaged by aerial torpedos.
There is little resistance on the beaches as the Japanese retire inland to
await reinforcements. The Americans take Tacloban airfield but can not link th
beachheads of the two corps. At nightfall some 132,000 have been landed.
General MacArthur lands a few hours after the assault troops and broadcasts to
the Philippine people recalling his famous promise, "I shall return." The
Japanese have set into operation a massive fleet operation, Operation Sho-go.
A carrier force commanded by Admiral Ozawa leaves Japan while other units are
assembling at Brunei in North Borneo.

The Homefront
-------------
Pearl Harbor Report Secret - Navy Secretary James V. Forrestal says the report
on Pearl Harbor will be kept confidential for the present because parts of it
has been classified "secret" and "top secret." In St. Paul, Rep. Melvin Maas
says that if the report is kept secret until after the election it is a clear
indication tha the administration is just playing politics.

Cleveland Fire - Explosions in a liquid gas storage plant in Cleveland start a
fire that spreads over a 50 block east side area, causing 121 deaths and
injuring at least 200.

College Football - Boston College 42, NYU 13; Michigan State 8, Marykand 0;
Syracuse 7, Temple 7.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "Facts On File Yearbook 1944,
Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.netcom.com in directory /pub/jbd and can
be accessed via the WWW by URL: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/jbd/ww2.html. If you
have difficulty accessing the Netcom FTP server, please keep trying because it
stays very busy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis     [email-masked]
Cary, N.C.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:11:59 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The ULTRA what-if (Axis Taking Russia from both ends)

Hello, Oliver!

Will try to answer your question. Japan was too preoccupied in China
to invade Russia in 1941. Also, Japan was not prepared logistically
to fight a war with Russia at that time. Also, Japan was more
interested in expansion toward Southeastern Asia than trying to fight
a war with Russia that, to them, would yield little in the way of raw
materials. Also, the Russians under Zhukov had so badly beaten the
Japanese at the battle of Khalkin Gol in 1939, that the Japanese were
reluctant to provoke an enemy that may do the same thing and thus
upset their focus at the time.

    One other thing, there was no real pressure put on the Japanese
to do so in 1941. Later on, there was, but even so, the Japanese
were only prepared to invade the SU in the event of an emminent
collapse.

    Also, this whole question certainly brings to mind that for the
Japanese and Germans to invade the SU, for ultimate success, it seems
to me, they would have had to have an overall supreme commander for
whom both and their allies would have gladly cooperated, as was
clearly demonstrated with the Western Allies. Had this happened, the
war in Russia may have had a different outcome.

    My opinion and thank you.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:15:18 EDT
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: HIST:  Taffy-3; USS Heermann

From: Dictionary of American Fighting Ships, Vol. III, 1968, Navy
Department, Office of the Chief of Naval Operations, Naval History
Division, Washington, D.C.

HEERMANN (DD-532)

dp. 2,100
l. 376' 3"
b. 39' 8"
dr. 13'
s. over 30 k.
cpl. 273
a. 5 5", 10 21' tt., 6 dep.;
2 dct
cl. FLETCHER

HEERMANN (DD-532) was launched 5 December 1942 by the Bethlehem
Shipbuilding Co. of San Francisco; sponsored by Mrs. Edward B. Briggs,
wife of Lt. E. B. Briggs., USCGR, great grandson of the namesake; and
commissioned 6 July 1943, Cmdr Dwight M. Agnew, USN, in command.

After shakedown training out of San Diego, HEERMANN joined the 5th Fleet
21 October 1943 for the assault on the Gilbert Islands, the second major
offensive thrust in the Navy's conquest of Japan's far-flung Pacific
empire. She arrived of Tarawa in Rear Admiral Harry W. Hill's Southern
Attack Force 20 November. Her guns sank a small enemy craft inside the
lagoon and the next 2 days powerfully assisted troops ashore with close-
in fire support. With the island secured, she returned to Pearl Harbor
for voyage repairs and training which ended 23 January when she sailed
in the screen of an attack transport reserve force. The ships steamed
east of Kwajalein while Rear Admiral Turner's Joint Expeditionary Force
landed on that atoll 31 January. In the ensuing 2 weeks HEERMANN
patrolled off Kwajalein and operated in the screen of escort carriers
which were launching strikes in support of troops ashore. Then she
steamed to Eniwetok Atoll where she joined in the preinvasion
bombardment of Japan and Parry Islands, gave close fire support to the
troops once they were ashore, and then patrolled off the atoll during
mop-up operations.

HEERMANN set course first for Majuro Lagoon and then Purvis Bay, Florida
Island, Solomons and reported to Commander 3d Fleet and Task Force 39,
18 March 1944. For the next month she divided her time between
protecting troop and resupply convoys which were occupying Emirau Island
and hunting enemy supply barges along the coast of New Hanover.

Back at Port Purvis 3 June, HEERMANN participated in the bombardment of
a tank farm on Fangelewa Bay, New Ireland, 11 June, and then searched
for submarines along sealanes leading from the Solomons toward the
Admiralties, the Carolines, and the Marshall Islands until 26 June. The
summer of 1944 found HEERMANN busy escorting Navy and Merchant shipping
to rendezvous where they jointed convoys bound for various ports. This
duty took her to Espiritu Santo, New Hebrides Islands and Noumea, New
Caledonia Island.

HEERMANN cleared Port Purvis 6 September 1944 with Rear Admiral William
D. Sample's escort carrier force that provided air support during the
invasion of the Palau Islands. After replenishing at Seeadler Harbor,
Admiralty Islands, she sortied 12 October 1944 with a fire support group
for the liberation of the Philippine Islands.

HEERMANN screened transports and landing ships safely to the beaches of
Leyte and then joined Rear Admiral Thomas L. Sprague's Escort Carrier
Group (Task Group 77.4) which was made up of three escort carrier task
units, known as the "Three Taffies" because of their voice calls: "Taffy
1", "Taffy 2", and "Taffy 3". Destroyers HOEL and JOHNSTON joined her in
screening Rear Admiral Clifton A. F. Sprague's unit, "Taffy 3" which
also included his flagship FANSHAW BAY (CVE-70) and three other escort
carriers.

Dawn of 25 October 1944 found "Taffy 3" east of Samar steaming north as
the Northern Air Support Group, "Taffy 2" was in the central position
patrolling off the entrance to Leyte Gulf, and "Taffy 1" covered the
Southern approaches to the Gulf some 130 miles to the southeast of
HEERMANN's "Taffy 3". At 0645 "Taffy 3's" lookouts observed antiaircraft
fire to the northward and within 3 minutes were under heavy fire from
Japanese Admiral Kurita's powerful Center Force of four battleships, 6
heavy cruisers, 2 light cruisers, and 11 destroyers. The battle off
Samar was thus joined.

The only chance for survival of the little group of light American ships
lay in slowing the advances of the enemy warships while withdrawing
toward Leyte Gulf and hoped-for assistance. The carriers promptly
launched their planes to attack the Japanese vessels, and the escorts
promptly set to work generating smoke to hide the American ships.

HEERMANN, in a position of comparative safety on the disengaged side of
the carriers at the start of the fight, steamed into the action at flank
speed through the formation of "baby flattops" who, after launching
their last planes, formed a rough circle as they turned toward Leyte
Gulf. Since smoke and intermittent rain squalls had reduced visibility
to less than 100 yards, it took alert and skillful seamanship to avoid
colliding with friendly ships during the dash to battle.  She backed
emergency full to avoid destroyer escort SAMUEL B. ROBERTS and repeated
the maneuver to miss destroyer HOEL as HEERMANN formed column on the
screen flagship in preparation for a torpedo attack.

As she began the run, dye from enemy shells daubed the water nearby with
circles of brilliant red, yellow, and green.  HEERMANN replied to this
challenge by pumping her 5-inch shells at one heavy cruiser, CHIKUMA, as
she directed seven torpedoes at another, HAGURO. When the second of
these "fish" had left the tube, HEERMANN changed course to engage a
column of four battleships whose shells began churning the water nearby.
She trained her guns on KONGO, the column's leader, at whom she launched
three torpedoes. Then she quickly closed HARUNA, the target of her of
her last three torpedoes, which were launched from only 4,400 yards.
Believing that one of the "fish" had hit the battleship, she nimbly
dodged the salvoes which splashed in her wake as she retired. Japanese
records claim that the battleship successfully evaded all of HEERMANN's
torpedoes, but they were slowed down in their pursuit of the American
carriers. The giant, YAMATO, with her monstrous 18.1-inch guns, was even
force out of the action altogether when, caught between two spreads, she
reversed course for almost 10 minutes to escape being hit.

HEERMANN sped to the starboard quarter of the carrier formation to lay
more concealing smoke and then charged back into the fight a few minutes
later, placing herself boldly between the escort carriers and the column
of four enemy heavy cruisers. Here she engaged Japanese cruiser CHIKUMA
in a duel which seriously damaged both ships. A series of 8-inch hits
flooded the forward part of the plucky destroyer, pulling her bow down
so far that her anchors were dragging in the water. One of her guns was
knocked out but the others continued to pour a deadly stream of 5-inch
shells at the cruiser, which also came under heavy air attack during the
engagement. The combined effect of HEERMANN's guns and the bombs,
torpedoes, and strafing from carrier-based planes was too much for
CHIKUMA who tried to withdraw but sank during her fight.

As CHIKUMA turned away, heavy cruiser TONE turned her guns on HEERMANN
who replied shell for shell until she reached a position suitable to
resume laying smoke for the carriers. At this point planes from Admiral
Stump's "Taffy 2" swooped in to sting TONE so severely that she too
broke off action and fled. The courageous attacks of the destroyers and
aircraft thus saved the outgunned task groups.

HEERMANN retired to Kossol Passage for temporary repairs before getting
underway for Mare Island and overhaul which was completed 15 January
1945. She then returned to the Western Pacific to join fast carrier task
forces in raids against the Japanese  mainland which helped demoralize
the Japanese people and to prepare them for surrender. During the
fighting to take Iwo Jima, HEERMANN supported operations ashore by radar
and antisubmarine picket duty. On 20 March 1945 she sank a small surface
vessel and rescued seven of her crew after she went down. Seven days
later she took part in the night bombardment of Minamo Daito Jima.
During the Okinawa campaign she took several enemy planes under fire as
she guarded carriers which provided air support for troops ashore. On 18
April with the assistance of destroyers MERTZ, MCCORD, COLLETT, and
UHLMANN and planes from aircraft carrier BATAAN, HEERMANN sank Japanese
submarine I-56, a carrier of the dreaded "kaitens", human-guided suicide
torpedoes. She continued to support carrier operations off Okinawa until
retiring to Leyte Gulf for replenishment and voyage repairs late in
June. On 1 July she helped to screen the fast carrier force which
devoted the ensuing 5 weeks to almost continuous air strikes and
bombardment.

On 15 August 1945 HEERMANN was on radar picker station some 200 miles
southeast of Tokyo when, several hours after the announcement of the end
of hostilities, a suicide plane emerged from a cloud bank and began to
dive in HEERMANN's direction only to be splashed by the destroyer's
alert gunners in one of the final naval actions of World War II. In the
following weeks HEERMANN operated in the screen of the fast carrier task
force providing air cover and air-sea rescue service while General
MacArthur and Admiral Nimitz were preparing to occupy Japan. She entered
Tokyo Bay 16 September 1945 and remained in the area to support the
occupation forces until 7 October when she sailed for the United States.
She decommissioned at San Diego 12 June 1946.

HEERMANN remained in reserve at San Diego until recommissioning 12
September 1951. After training in local waters and upkeep in San
Francisco, she departed San Diego 4 January 1952 for her new base,
Newport, R.I., where she arrived 23 January. She spent the year 1952
training in water stretching from the New England coast to the Virginia
Capes, followed by intensive antisubmarine warfare and fleet problems
during winter cruising in the Caribbean. She returned to Newport to
resume operation along the Northeastern seaboard. After a voyage to
Plymouth, England, in June and July 1953, she participated in
antisubmarine maneuvers between Newport and the Virginia Capes.

HEERMANN departed on a world cruise 3 December 1953. First she sailed
for Yokosuka, Japan, by way of the Panama Canal, San Diego, and the
Hawaiian Islands. After a 2-day replenishment in Yokosuka, she set
course for Okinawa where she acted as part of the escort for 3d Marine
Division amphibious warfare landings and conducted barrier patrol in
support of the exercise. After more maneuvers took her to Korea, Iwo
Jima, and the South Coast of Japan, she returned to Yokosuka which she
cleared 22 May 1954 to resume her world cruise, calling at Hong Kong and
Singapore on her way to the Suez Canal. In the Mediterranean she visited
Port Said, Naples, Villa Franche, and Barcelona before returning to
Newport 17 July 1954.

For the next year and a half HEERMANN participated in training exercises
along the Atlantic coast. On 1 February she sailed to join the 6th Fleet
in exercises along the coast of Lebanon, Israel and Egypt. In April she
was invited by Prince Ranier to be in port for his wedding to Miss Grace
Kelly 19-24 April 1956. She furnished a 40-man honor guard for the
occasion. From Monaco she joined the 6th Fleet off Greece, and then
departed for Fall River, Mass., where she arrived 28 May 1956. HEERMANN
operated out of Newport until 6 November when she sailed for the
Mediterranean where she proved to be a first-rate antisubmarine ship in
joint exercises with the Italian Navy. After revisting Monaco at the
invitation of Prince Ranier and Princess Grace, she returned to Fall
River 20 February 1957. She served as gunnery schoolship out of Newport
until 30 January June when she joined BADGER in the screen of
antisubmarine warfare carrier LEYTE for 2 weeks of air operations for
the training of Academy midshipmen. She decommissioned at Boston 20
December 1957 and was assigned to the Boston Group of the U.S. Atlantic
Reserve Fleet. On 14 August 1961 she was transferred on a loan basis to
the government of Argentina under terms of the Military Assistance
Program. She serves in the Argentine Navy under the name BROWN (D-20).
[As of 1968. LWJ]

In addition to the Presidential Unit Citation, HEERMANN received the
Philippine Republic Citation Badge and nine battles stars for World War
II service.

Steve L. New
[email-masked]
Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:15:52 EDT
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: HIST:  Taffy-3; USS Hoel

From: Dictionary of American Fighting Ships, Vol. III, 1968, Navy
Department, Office of the Chief of Naval Operations, Naval History
Division, Washington, D.C.

HOEL

William R. Hoel, born 7 March 1825 in Ohio, was a Mississippi River
steamboat pilot who entered the Navy 19 October 1861. On 6 February
1862, while serving as the First Master of CINCINNATI, Hoel was wounded
during the Battle of Fort Henry. Less than 2 months later, on 4 April he
volunteered to pilot gunboat CARONDELET in her famous run past the Rebel
batteries at Island Number 10 to reach Maj. Gen. John Pope's Army at New
Madrid. The gunboat's valiant dash through a hailstorm of Confederate fire
enabled Union forces to cross the river and to take this key island with
quantities of cannon, equipment and stores. It thus opened the Mississippi
for operations by Union gunboats bringing the Federal Armies in a long
stride to within sight of Memphis. Hoel's courageous and skillful service
on this occasion won the praise of Flag-Officer Andrew H. Foote, the thanks
of the Navy from Secretary Gideon Welles, and promotion to the rank of
Acting Volunteer Lieutenant effective 29 April 1862.

On 10 May 1862 Hoel assumed command of CINCINNATI when serious wounds
incapacitated her Captain, Commander Roger N. Stembel. The new commander
of the Western Flotilla, Captain Charles H. Davis, took this opportunity
to express his admiration of Hoel. "I can not praise more than they
deserve his high valor and ability. He sets the highest example to those
below him, and if it were possible to give him a permanent position
worthy of his merits, the Navy would be the gainer ..."

On 29 October, Hoel then took command of PITTSBURG on which he served
with distinction in the campaign to take Vicksburg. One of Lieutenant
Hole's exploits during this campaign is of special interest since it
foreshadowed the heroism of the World War II destroyer which bore his
name, USS HOEL (DD-533). On 29 April 1863, as Acting Rear Admiral
Porter's flotilla was bombarding the Confederate Batteries at Grand
Gulf, his flagship, USS BENTON, became unmanageable and was caught under
heavy fire in a position where she could neither steer nor reply to the
enemy guns. On seeing Porter's predicament, Hoel slipped the PITTSBURG
in between BENTON and the flaming Rebel batteries to protect her by
taking the fire himself. In the next 10 minutes his heroism cost the
PITTSBURG 6 men killed and 8 wounded, but the sacrifice allowed BENTON
to extricate herself from the deadly trap. The bombardment was so
successful that the next day General Grant safely moved his troops
across the Mississippi to begin the operations which at long last
isolated and captured Vicksburg.

Hoel was promoted to Acting Volunteer Lieutenant Commander on 10
November 1864. Detached from PITTSBURG, he then took command of
VINDICATOR 1 March 1865 on which he served until 7 July 1865. He was
honorably discharged on 30 December 1865.

USS HOEL DD-533

dp. 2,100;
l. 376'3";
b. 39'8";
dr. 13';
s. 36 k.;
cpl. 273;
a. 5 6", 10 21" tt., 6 dcp., 2 dct.;
cl. FLETCHER

HOEL (DD-533) was launched 19 December 1942 by the Bethlehem Steel Co.,
San Francisco, Calif.; sponsored by Mrs. Charles Bunker Crane, Jr.,
granddaughter of the namesake, and commissioned 29 July 1943, Commander
William Dow Thomas, USN, in command.

HOEL sailed from San Francisco Bay 16 August 1943 for shakedown training
in operating areas out of San Diego during which she made seven depth
charge runs on an underwater sound contact with unknown results. After
returning to Mare Island Navy Yard 17 September for final alterations,
she cleared San Francisco 26 October as a part of the screen for a
convoy which reached Pearl Harbor 31 October 1943 where HOEL reported to
Captain A. G. Cook, Commander of Destroyer Squadron 47, who then shifted
his flag to her from HEERMANN.

Fifth Fleet, which was then preparing to take the Gilbert Islands in
operation GALVANIC, assigned HOEL to Admiral Richmond K Turner's
Northern attack force, TF 52. She joined destroyers MORRIS, FRANKS, and
HUGHES and minesweeper REVENGE in guarding Air Support Group 52.3
composed of escort carriers LISCOME BAY, CORAL SEA, and CORREGIDOR.

HOEL sortied from Pearl Harbor with her group 10 November and guarded
her "baby flattops" as their planes pounded Makin in a dawn preinvasion
attack 20 November 1943. For the next 3 days torpedo bombers and
fighters from Air Support Group 52.3 supported Major General Ralph C.
Smith's 27th Infantry Division as it struggled to take Makin. Thousands
of bombs and countless rounds from the guns on these planes smashed
Japanese troop concentrations, gun emplacements, and shore installations
on the beleaguered island. Before dawn 24 November, a torpedo fired by
Japanese submarine I-715 struck LISCOME BAY amidships and lookouts on
the fantail of CORAL SEA spotted the wake of a second torpedo which
barely missed their ship. Bluejackets on board HOEL saw smoke and flame
rise at least a thousand feet when the torpedo ripped into LISCOME BAY
and detonated her bomb magazine. Rear Admiral Henry M. Mullinnix,
commander of the Air Support Group, Captain Irving D. Wiltsie and 642
officers and men perished with the ill-fated carrier which slipped
beneath the surface some 23 minutes later after spewing smoke, flame and
red-hot plane parts for miles around. The group's destroyers rescued 272
survivors. At dusk the following day, Thanksgiving, Japanese planes
spotted Rear Admiral Turner's task force steaming a few miles off
Butaritari Island and dropped both float and parachute flares on each
side of his ships to light them up as targets for 13 torpedo bombers
which swooped in to attack. However, spirited gunnery and perfectly
timed radical simultaneous turns enabled the American vessels to thwart
the attackers by escaping without suffering a single hit.

When the escort carriers cleared the area at night 27 November 1943,
HOEL joined the screen protecting Abemama Group I which was unloading on
the island of that name. The next morning she rejoined Rear Admiral
Turner's task force and arrived off Tarawa 1 December for antisubmarine
patrol five miles off the lagoon entrance. Two days later she joined the
escort for battleship TENNESSEE and a group of transports sailing for
Pearl Harbor where they arrived 11 December 1913. Captain A. G. Cook.
commander of Destroyer Squadron 47 shifted his flag from HOEL to MCCORD
14 December 1943.

HOEL with fleet units of the 5th Amphibious Force, began intensive
training for the invasion of the Marshall Islands. Departed Pearl Harbor
23 January 1944 with the transport screen of Reserve Force, TG 51.1
which steamed east of Kwajalein while Rear Admiral Turner's Joint
Expeditionary Force landed on that atoll 31 January 1944. HOEL escorted
the group's transports into Kwajalein Lagoon 2 February, and the
following day took station as a radar picket patrol ship south of
Kwajalein where she also was on call for gunfire support. On 6
February she accompanied MILLER DD-535 on a tour of inspection in the
Roi-Namur area for Admiral Nimitz.

When Task Forces 51 and 53 dissolved and their ships reverted to Task
Force 51, HOEL was assigned to Fire Support Section 3, TU 51. 17.3 of
the Eniwetok Expeditionary Group. In the early morning darkness of 17
February HOEL reentered Eniwetok Lagoon with cruiser Portland to bombard
Parry and Japtan Islands. HOEL picked up several aviators from a wrecked
scout plane from cruiser INDIANAPOLIS and returned them to their ship.
That afternoon HOEL's guns destroyed several small craft on the beach of
Parry Island and fired on pillboxes and troop concentrations inland. She
then anchored in standby position while the rest of the force bombarded
the two islands. The next day HOEL took her turn at providing harassing
fire and at night illuminated the beaches and the reef to prevent enemy
troop movements. Just before daybreak 19 February she took station off
Eniwetok for close fire support of the initial landings.

When relieved by destroyer PHELPS 2 February HOEL steamed to a position
off the deep entrance to Eniwetok Lagoon for patrol duty which continued
until 26 February when she embarked a fighter director team from
destroyer HAZELWOOD and assumed duties of standby fighter director for
the Eniwetok area. On 4 March 1944, 2 days later after the attack and
occupation phase of Eniwetok was completed, the fighter-director team
was transferred to the attack transport CAMBRIA, freeing HOEL to depart
for Majuro for repairs.

HOEL, in company with three other destroyers of DesRon 47, reported to
Commander 3d Fleet at Purvis Bay, Florida Island, 1 March 14. The net
day she cleared that port to join Task Force 39, but 20 March she was
ordered to change course for Emirau Island which was then being occupied
by marines On 25 March 1944 destroyers TRATHEN and JOHNSTON joined HOEL
and the rest of DesRon 47 uniting the squadron for the first time.

HOEL then patrolled south and east of Cape Botiangen, New Hanover, where
her guns destroyed an enemy warehouse 26 March 1944, and, the next day,
captured documents which contained valuable information from a 40-foot
outrigger canoe. That night she made four depth charge runs on an
underwater sound contact with unknown results. She returned to Purvis
Bay 8 April 1944 to screen a convoy carrying troops and supplies to
Emirau Island.

Upon her return to Purvis Bay 14 April 1944 HOEL reported for duty to
Rear Admiral R. W. Hayler, the commander of Cruiser Division 12 who kept
her busy with training exercises and convoy duty until 14 August when
she was assigned to the 3d Amphibious Force then preparing for the
invasion of the Palaus. She joined escort carrier KITKUN BAY at Espiritu
Santo 24 August 1944 for passage to Purvis Bay. On 6 September they put
to sea for the Palau Islands with Rear Admiral W. D. Sample's escort
carrier task force unit to provide air support during the invasion of
Peleliu. While continuing to screen the escort carriers, she rescued a
pilot and passenger from a plane that had splashed on attempting to take
off from OMMANEY BAY and transferred them to Marcus Island. On 1 October
1944 HOEL made three depth charge runs on an underwater sound contact
with unknown results.

After replenishing at Seeadler Harbor of Manus, Admiralty Islands, HOEL
cleared that base with a fire support group 12 October 1944 to join Rear
Admiral Thomas L. Sprague's escort carrier group (Task Group 77.4) in
invading the Philippines. Sprague's force was composed of three units,
each comprising a group of escort carriers and a screen of destroyers
and destroyer escorts. These units, known by their radio calls as the
"Three Taffys", began operating off Samar 18 October 1944 to cover the
landings on Leyte. HOEL was attached to "Taffy 3" (Escort Carrier Task
Unit 77.4.3) commanded by Rear Admiral Clifton A. F. Sprague and
comprising four escort carriers guarded by destroyers HOEL, HEERMANN,
and JOHNSTON. Before the decisive battle off Samar, "Taffy 3" was
reinforced by the arrival of Admiral R. A. Oftsie with two more escort
carriers and four destroyer escorts, DENNIS, JOHN C. BUTLER, RAYMOND,
and SAMUEL B. ROBERTS.

Dawn of 25 October 1944 found "Taffy 3" steaming northeast of Samar
operating as the Northern Air Support Group. "Taffy 2" was in the
central position patrolling off the entrance to Leyte Gulf, and "Taffy
1" covered the southern approaches to the Gulf some 130 miles to the
southeast of HOEL's "Taffy 3". Admiral T. L. Sprague was under the
erroneous impression that Admiral Halsey's 3d Fleet was providing
protection to the north and so was taken by surprise when at 0645 "Taffy
3's" lookouts observed antiaircraft fire to the northward and within 3
minutes were under heavy fire from Kurita's powerful Center Force of 4
battleships, 6 heavy cruisers, 2 light cruisers, and 11 destroyers.

The only chance for survival of the little group of American "jeep"
carriers and "tin cans" lay in fleeing to the south hoping that aid
would arrive before their complete destruction. While the carriers
launched all available planes to attack their numerous Japanese
adversaries and then formed a rough circle as they turned toward Leyte
Gulf, HOEL and her fellow destroyers JOHNSTON and HEERMANN, worked
feverishly to lay down a smoke screen to hide their "baby 'flattops"
from the overwhelmingly superior enemy ships. At 0706, when a
providential rain squall helped to hide his carriers, Admiral Clifton
Sprague boldly ordered his destroyers to attack the Japanese with
torpedoes. HOEL instantly obeyed this order by heading straight for the
nearest enemy battleship, KONGO, then 18,000 yards away. When she had
closed to 14,000 yards she opened fire as she continued her race toward
the smoking muzzles of KONG's 14-inch guns. A hit on her bridge which
knocked out all voice radio communication did not deflect her from her
course toward the enemy until she had launched a half salvo of torpedoes
at a range of 9,000. Although HOEL's "fish" all failed to strike their
target, they caused KONGO to lose ground in her pursuit of the carriers
by forcing her to turn sharply left and to continue to move away from
her quarry until they had run their course. Minutes later HOEL suffered
hits which knocked out three of her guns, stopped her port engine, and
deprived her of her Mark-37 fire control director, FD radar,
and bridge steering control. Undaunted, HOEL turned to engage the enemy
column of heavy cruisers. When she had closed to within 6,000 yards of
the leading cruiser, HAGURO, the fearless destroyer launched a half-
salvo of torpedoes which ran "hot, straight and normal." This time she
was rewarded by the sight of large columns of water which rose from her
target. Although Japanese records deny that these torpedoes hit the
cruiser, there is no evidence to indicate any other explanation for the
geyser effect observed.

HOEL now found herself crippled and surrounded by enemies. KONGO was
only 8,000 yards off her port beam and the heavy cruiser column was some
7,000 yards off her port quarter. During the next hour the valiant ship
rendered her final service by drawing enemy fire to herself and away
from the carriers. In the process of fish-tailing and chasing salvos she
demanded the attention of her antagonists by peppering them with her two
remaining guns. Finally at 0830, after withstanding over 40 hits,
a shell stilled her remaining engine. With her engineroom under
water, her No. 1 magazine ablaze, and the ship listing heavily to
port and settling by the stern, HOEL's stouthearted captain,
Commander Leon S. Kinterberger, reluctantly ordered his crew to
"prepare to abandon ship." The Japanese fire at the doomed ship
continued as her surviving officers and men went over the side and
only stopped at 0855 when HOEL rolled over and sank in 4,000
fathoms.

Only 86 of HOEL's complement survived while 253 officers and men died
with their ship. Commander Kinterberger described the incomparably
courageous devotion to duty of the men of the HOEL in a seaman's epitaph
to the action: "Fully cognizant of the inevitable result of engaging
such vastly superior forces, these men performed their assigned duties
coolly and efficiently until their ship was shot from under them."

In addition to the Presidential Unit Citation, HOEL received the
Philippine Republic Presidential Unit Citation Badge and five battle
stars for World War II service.

Steve L. New
[email-masked]
Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:22:24 -0500
From:    Michael D Wallick <[email-masked]>
Subject: Homefront: US: Baseball during WWII

After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Franklin Roosevelt wrote to Judge
Landis, the Commissioner of Major League Baseball, that it would be good
for the country if baseball continued.  Roosevelt felt that baseball would
build a positive morale during the difficult years ahead.  However, he did
not exempt baseball players from military service.  Before the start of
the 1944 season, 300 major league players were serving in the armed
services.  Some of those players were:

Hank Greenberg.  Greenberg was the first star ballplayer to enter war
service.  On May 7, 1941, he was ordered to report to Fort Custer,
Michigan, for induction.  Since he was over the age limit of 28, Greenberg
was discharged on December 5, 1941.  After Pearl Harbor, he enlisted in
the Army Air Corps and was commissioned in August 1942. Greenberg spent
almost a year in China as the commanding officer of the first overseas
B-29 superfortress base.  He flew the hump and participated in the first
land-based bombing of Japan in June 1944.  Having earned a presidential
unit citation and four battle stars, Greenberg was discharged on July 1,
1945.

Joe DiMaggio.  DiMaggio was drafted into the Army on February 16, 1943. He
played baseball at the Santa Ana Army Air Field and in Hawaii for the 7th
Army Air Force.  In September 1943, DiMaggio joined the Air Transport
Command and flew hops between Honolulu and California.  After about a
year, he was transferred to the Redistribution Center, Atlantic City, New
Jersey, where he was assigned to the Special Services' physical training
section.  Worried about the welfare of his son and his pending divorce,
DiMaggio was hospitalized numerous times for stomach ailments. Diagnosed
with a duodenal ulcer in August 1945, he was discharged from the Army on
September 14, 1945.

Ted Williams.  Although Ted Williams was granted a dependents' deferment
from the draft, he enlisted in the Marines and served from 1942 to 1945.
In the summer of 1942, Williams entered aviation training at Pensacola,
Florida, where he later became an instructor.  During his military career,
Williams flew a total of 1100 hours.  Naval medical records revealed that
Williams possessed much better than normal vision which may have
contributed to his success as a batter.

Phil Rizzuto.  Rizzuto served in the Navy from 1942 to 1945.  After a year
at Norfolk, Virginia, Rizzuto was sent to New Guinea where he contracted
malaria.  He was then assigned to manage the Navy baseball team.  In
September 1944, Rizzuto joined Bill Dickey's Navy All-Stars and played
third base during the world series between Army and Navy.  He returned to
New Guinea and saw action in the Philippines before being discharged in
October 1945.

Jackie Robinson.  Robinson was drafted into the Army in April 1942 and was
commissioned a second lieutenant in November 1942.  Because of football
ankles, Robinson was assigned limited duty.  He served overseas for 31
months as a morale officer before being discharged in early 1945.

Gil Hodges.  Hodges enlisted in the Marines in September 1943.  He served
with the 16th Antiaircraft Artillery Battalion at Pearl Harbor, Tinian,
and Okinawa.  In February 1946, Hodges was discharged with the rank of
sergeant.

Bob Feller.  Feller enlisted in the Navy and served aboard the USS Alabama
where he commanded an antiaircraft battery of 44 mm guns.  In 1944, Feller
participated in the invasion of the Marianas Islands.

Yogi Berra.  Berra joined the Navy in 1944.  As a gunner on a rocket boat,
he saw action for 15 consecutive days during the D-Day landing at
Normandy.  He also participated in the landings on the southern coast of
France.  When Berra returned from overseas duty, he was assigned to the
submarine base at New London, Connecticut, where he built a baseball field
and played ball.  Berra was discharged from the Navy in May 1946.

Sources: Berra, Yogi and Tom Horton.  YOGI: IT AIN'T OVER.  New York:
McGraw-Hill, 1989.

CURRENT BIOGRAPHY.  New York: H.W. Wilson, 1947-1962.

DeGregorio, George.  JOE DIMAGGIO: AN INFORMAL BIOGRAPHY.  New York: Stein
and Day, 1981.

Kiner, Ralph.  "Unforgettable Hank Greenberg."  READER'S DIGEST, 133
(October 1988): 83-87.

Kinkead, Eugene.  "That Was the War: Wild Pigs and Mr. Feller."  NEW
YORKER, 22 (May 11, 1946): 84-88.

Michael Wallick

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:24:32 -0500
From:    Drew Halevy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The ULTRA what-if (Axis Taking Russia from both ends)

The Russians and the Japanese came to a mutual understanding (and a
unique position that both sides (Gemany and the US would have enjoyed a
second front)) so that Russia could deal with Germany and the Japanese
could deal with the US. The Russians did not enter the war against Japan
until August 8, 1945 (and they claim that they, not the US, brought Japan
to her knees) as agreed under the Potsdam agreements (three months after
the end of the war in Europe)-Drew

Drew  Philip Halevy      |  Qui desiderat pacem,
Graduate Student         |  praeparet bellum-
Department of History    |  Let him who desires peace, prepare for war-
University of Arkansas   |  Vegetius
[email-masked]    |

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:41:23 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: OSS-William Colby

Hello, Mary!

You might consult the following:

1. The Secret War Against Hitler by William Casey
2. The Secret War Report of the OSS by Anthony Cave Brown

That is all that I could find that had some reference to Mr. Colby.
Ben Frank's suggestion is a good one, as well.

Hope this helps.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 14:48:13 +0100
From:    Ludwig Goller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Teaching WWII in Germany today.

On Tue, 18 Oct 1994, Oliver Bonham-Carter wrote:

> Does anyone know how the Germans teach WWII history today? From history
> classes in this country (the US) the Germans get a bad wrap and were seen
> as the "cold-hearted" enemy. Do they teach it the same way in Germany
> today as the older generation were the "cold-hearted" enemy?
>
> anyone been to Germany lately?
>
> [email-masked]
>  "This is it... so read it!"
>
Yes, I've been to Germany for about 24 years now - my whole life :-)
In school we learn much about the Third Reich, its' origines and mostly
the holocaust, so most of us know very well that we were the bad guys, at
least the younger generation.
Concerning the older generation, the situation is difficult.
My own father (he married again after the war and I was born later)
served as cook in a MASH. He was no Nazi (ok, ok, I know that 90% of the
Germans say that today, but trust me), but he was in Hamburg during an
allied airraid with phosphorus bombs (sp?). He saw people burning alive.
Although he did not like the Nazis and knew well enough that Germany
could not win the war, he did not like the Allies either because of his
experiences described above.
Most of the Germans of the war generation thought like that - after the
attack on Russia in 1941, it was to say: "Have YOU ever heard of a mouse
eating a cat???"
But, unfortunately, most of them, in a kind of
"my-contry-right-or-wrong"-mood continued fighting until the very end.
For  the German youth of today, this way of thinking is completely
strange. Most of them are pacifist, individualistic people that like
Michael Jackson, drink Coca Cola and eat their BigMacs like anybody else. :-)
- sorry, this was not meant to be "anti-american", really -

Ludwig

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 15:03:31 +0200
From:    Erik Scheuermann <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Teaching WWII in Germany today.

Hi,

I live in Germany and it's not too long since I left school so I try to
shed some light on this.
The first thing I have to say is that the militarical aspect of both world
wars had a relative low priority. They told you some dates and we were
supposed to do a short report on one of the different places of war. (I did
the pacific, the report should take 20 mins, the teacher told me to come to
an end after 40 mins ;)) It was more important how it came to this and what
happened here in Germany. We were never tols that the soldiers were somehow
"cold hearted", they were just doing their job. Certain groups in higher
officers circles were portrayed as being overly agressive, especially after
loosing WWI. The most common explenation was that they felt that the army
was dishonoured.
Other groups like SS and SA were a different issue, our teacher tried to give
us some insight in this phenomenon. I guess he tried to make us understand
so this would not happen again. Although they were never realy portrayed as
some kind of monsters, more as pretty normal people that were influenced
in a way to blunt any human feelings against one group of people. I think
if you wanted to know more about the war you had to ask any relatives that
were in the war (a hard thing for me, one grandpa was policeman in a small
village and the other one worked for Junkers most of the war).

Well that's my very personal recollection of the history lessons, hope
it helped a bit.

                                                So long

                                                        Erik

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:57:12 EDT
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: CVE's

     Jorge,

     Sorry, I don't have extensive files on the CVEs.  I'm more an aircraft
     than aircraft carrier person myself.

     What I do have is listed below.  I'm including all the British units
     with this message, and will send out the other carriers individually,
     as time permits, so as not to hog space on the list.

     I don't know of any remaining monuments etc.  You might check the
     August / September digests of this list, since that was a hot topic
     back then.

     Listing of available CVE Files

  1   1359         cve-6.txt        HMS Battler
  2    570         cve-7.txt        HMS Attacker
  3    488         cve-8.txt        HMS Hunter
  4   3645         cve-9.txt        USS Bogue
  5    451        cve-10.txt        HMS Chaser
  6   9620        cve-18.txt        USS Altamaha
  7   1692        cve-20.txt        USS Barnes
  8   1858        cve-21.txt        USS Block Island
  9   1359        cve-23.txt        USS Breton
 10    929        cve-35.txt        HMS Ameer
 11    789        cve-36.txt        HMS Begum
 12   1980        cve-51.txt        HMS Arbiter
 13   7508        cve-57.txt        USS Coral Sea / USS Anzio
 14   8927        cve-60.txt        USS Guadalcanal
 15  10722        cve-68.txt        USS Kalinin Bay
 16   3079        cve-69.txt        USS Kasaan Bay
 17   6167        cve-71.txt        USS Kitkun Bay
 18   7955        cve-73.txt        USS Gambier Bay
 19   4725        cve-75.txt        USS Hoggatt Bay
 20   1396        cve-95.txt        USS Bismark Sea
 21   2593        cve-98.txt        USS Kwajalein
 22   5120        cve-99.txt        USS Admiralty Islands
 23   2536       cve-100.txt        USS Bougainville
 24   1522       cve-106.txt        USS Block Island (2)
 25   4426       cve-107.txt        USS Gilbert Islands
 26   4377       cve-108.txt        USS Kula Gulf

 The British CVEs

From: Dictionary of American Fighting Ships, Vol. A, 1991, Navy
Department, Office of the Chief of Naval Operations, Naval History
Division, Washington, D.C.

ALTAMAHA (CVE-6)

dp. 7,886;
l. 492';
b. 69' 6";
ew. 112';
dr. 25' 6";
s. 16 k.;
cpl. 970;
a. 2 5", 20 40-mm.;
cl. BOGUE;
T. C3-S-A2

AVG-6 was laid down under a Maritime Commission contract (MC hull 160)
on 15 April 1941 at Pascagoula, Miss., by the Ingalls Shipbuilding
Corp.; named ALTAMAHA on 7 January 1942 but the name was canceled on 17
March 1942; launched on 4 April 1942; sponsored by Mrs. Phillip Seymour,
wife of Capt. Seymour; redesignated ACV on 20 August 1942, acquired by
the Navy on 31 October 1942 and simultaneously transferred to the United
Kingdom. That same day, the ship was renamed HMS BATTLER and
commissioned by the Royal Navy.

BATTLER served the Royal Navy throughout World War II, operating for the
most part on convoy escort and antisubmarine warfare missions in the
North Atlantic. In September 1943, she supported the invasion of Italy
at Salerno. The ship was redesignated CVE-6 by the American Navy on 15
July 1943. She was returned to the custody of the United States on 12
February 1946. She was struck from the Navy list on 28 March 1946. She
was sold on 14 May 1946 to the Patapsco Steel Scrap Co., Bethlehem, Pa.,
and was subsequently scrapped.

******************************************************************

BARNES (CVE-7)

dp. 7800;
l. 495' 8";
b. 111' 6";
dr. 26';
s. 18 k.;
cpl. 890
a. 2 5";
cl. BOGUE

BARNES (CVE-7) was built by Western Pipe and Steel Co., San Francisco,
Calif.  She was commissioned 30 September 1942 and transferred to the
United Kingdom, under Lend-Lease, on the same day, as HMS ATTACKER.  The
vessel was returned to the United States' custody 5 January 1946 and
sold 28 October 1946.

*******************************************************************

BLOCK ISLAND (CVE-8)

BLOCK ISLAND (CVE-8) was built by Ingalls Shipbuilding Corp.,
Pascagoula, Miss.  She was transferred to the United Kingdom, under
Lend-Lease, 9 January 1943 and commissioned the following day as HMS
HUNTER.  The vessel was returned to United States' custody 29 December
1945 and sold 17 January 1947.

********************************************************************

BRETON (CVE-10)

BRETON (CVE-10) was built by Ingalls Shipbuilding Corp., Pascagoula,
Miss.  She was commissioned 9 April 1943 and transferred the same day,
under Lend-Lease, to the United Kingdom as HMS CHASER.  The carrier was
returned to United States' custody 12 May 1946 and sold 20 December
1946.

****************************************************************

BAFFINS (CVE-35)

dp. 8333;
l. 495' 8";
b. 111' 6";
dr. 26';
s. 17 k.;
cpl. 890;
a. 2 5";
cl. PRINCE WILLIAM

BAFFINS (ACV-35) was launched 18 October 1942 by Seattle-Tacoma
Shipbuilding Corp., Tacoma, Wash.; sponsored by Mrs. Laurance Bennett,
wife of Commander Bennett; and commissioned 28 June 1943, Captain W. L.
Rees in command.

BAFFINS remained at Puget Sound Navy yard until 18 July 1943.  Her
classification was changed to CVE-35 on 15 July 1943.  On the 18th she
proceeded to Vancouver, British Columbia, where she was decommissioned
the following day and transferred to the United Kingdom under Lend-
Lease.

During World War II she was operated by the British as HMS AMEER.  She
was returned 17 January 1946 and sold by the Navy 17 September 1946.

**********************************************************

BOLINAS (CVE-36)

dp. 8333;
l. 492';
b. 111' 6";
dr. 26';
s. 17 k.;
cpl. 890;
a. 2 5";
cl. PRINCE WILLIAM

BOLINAS (CVE-36) was launched 11 November 1942 by Seattle-Tacoma
Shipbuilding Corp., Tacoma, Wash.; sponsored by Mrs. G. B. Sherwood,
wife of Commander Sherwood; and commissioned 22 July 1943, Captain H. L.
Meadow in command.

On 2 August 1943 after being decommissioned BOLINAS was transferred to
the United Kingdom under Lend-Lease and renamed HMS BEGUM.  BEGUM served
with the British Navy during World War II and after her return was
declared surplus by the U.S. Navy.  She was sold by the Navy 16 April
1947.

**********************************************************

ARBITER (CVE-51)

dp. 9,800;
l. 492';
b. 69' 6";
ew. 111' 2";
dr. 26' 8";
s. 17 k.;
a. 2 5", 16 40-mm., 15 20-mm., 18 ac.;
cl. CHARGER, T. C3-S-A1

ST. SIMON (ACV-51), originally classified as an auxiliary aircraft
carrier, was laid down on 26 April 1943 at Tacoma, Wash., by the
Seattle-Tacoma Shipbuilding Co., under a Maritime Commission
contract (MC hull 262); reclassified as an escort aircraft carrier,
CVE-51, on 15 July 1943; launched on 9 September 1943; sponsored by
Mrs. R. H. Lewis, the wife of Major General R. H. Lewis, Commanding
General, Northwestern Sector, Fort Lewis, Wash.; assigned to the
Commercial Iron Works, Portland, Oreg., for the completion of
construction; and delivered to the Royal Navy, under lend-lease, on
31 December 1943.

Renamed ARBITER and given the "pendant number" D.31 (while being
carried on the United States' NAVAL VESSEL REGISTER with the
classification BCVE-51, the escort carrier served in the Royal Navy
for the duration of World War II.  She earned "battle honors" in the
Atlantic during 1944, serving on the western approaches to the
British Isles, and in 1945 served as one of seven similar ships
engaged in operating as an aircraft ferry supporting the British
Pacific Fleet's train, bringing up replacement aircraft or
providing combat air patrol for replenishment ships.

Returned to Norfolk, Va., on 23 February 1946, she was accepted by the
United States Navy on 3 March 1946.  Struck from the Navy list on 12
April 1946, the ship was sold to the Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry
Dock Co., Newport News, Va., on 30 January 1947.  Converted to the cargo
ship CORACERO, the former escort carrier served under two more names,
PRESIDENT MACAPAGAL from 1965 to 1972 and LUCKY TWO in 1972 before she
was scrapped in Kaohsiung, Taiwan, in 1972.

*****************************************************************

     Steve L. New
     [email-masked]
     Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 12:05:06 -0500
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Rumanian Army of WW2; General Mihail Lascar

Mike (and others interested in Rumania)

In reference to an earlier comment, I have an entry regarding our
illustrious hero, General Mihail Lascar, that I'll reproduce below:
(can't transcribe umlauts, so I'll use an extra `e')

Die steilste Karriere unter den koeniglichen Offizieren machte General
Mihail Lascar, derselbe Mann, der bei Raspopinskaja bei der Zerstoerung
der Stellungen des 5. rumaenischen Armeekorps den Sowjets in die Haende
gefallen war.  In Abwesenheit wurde General Lascar mit einer der
hoechsten deutschen Tapferkeitsmedaillen, mit dem Eichenlaub zum
Ritterkreuz, ausgezeichnet [like, wow..].  Im Fruejahr 1945 uebernahm nun
Lascar als Kommandeur die zweite rumaenische Freiwilligendivision "Horia,
Closca si Crisan", die ebenfalls aus Kriegsgefangenen bestand.  Nach der
Krieg verblieb der General in der Armee, bekleidete vom 29. November 1946
bis zum 23. Dezember 1947 den Posten eines Verteidgungsministers und nach
diesem Datum verschiedene Funktionen in der obersten Leitung der
Volksarmee, wie Stellvertretender Minister und Generalinspekteur der
Armee.  Im Januar 1950 ging Lascar in Pension und lebte danach in
Bukarest bis zu seinem Tode am 26. Juli 1959.

Source: Peter Gosztony,  HITLERS FREMDE HEERE: DAS SCHICKSAL DER
NICHTDEUTSCHEN ARMEEN IM OSTFELDZUG.  Econ Verlag, Dusseldorf, 1976.

(sorry for the lack of translation-- meine Deutsch vom Gymnasium I hab'
vergessen)

At least Mihail didn't languish in some Siberian POW camp postwar

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:39:29 EDT
From:    William Lippert <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Teaching WWII in Germany today.

To whoever cares, which might be no one,

    It is interesting to hear the stories of people's relatives who were
not in the war on Germany's side.  I don't mean to offend any of the
German volks on the listserv; they are undoubtedly telling the truth,
but it has been my experience that every person I ask who is from Germany
tells me the same old things: their relatives were in the countryside or
worked in this or that factory.  For a fully mobilized nation, it doesn't
seem like that mobilization was very full according to what German youths
say today.  But I don't hold them in blame - they were probably told these
things by their relatives.
    I, however, am quite proud to say that my Grandfather fought on the
dreadful Eastern Front.  He died of cancer at the age of 75 or so when
I was 16 - a rebellious teenager - and so I never had really cared to
here his war stories.  My relatives and parents who new him well
tell me that he didn't like to talk too much about the war.  He rode
motorcycles as a courier and then was thrown into the infantry.  In 1944
or 1945 he was wounded and went to a hospital.  After the war he had to
walk home from southern Germany to Hamburg.
   My Dad was in Hamburg, with his mom and sister, and they lived through
most of the bad parts of the war.  I've only spoken to him once about it,
I think, because he doesn't like to think too much about it either.
I never sensed any hostility on his part, though, for the Allies.  In fact,
it was quite the opposite.  Being in the British zone of Occupation, the
Tommies were all over the place.  They were very nice and gave him gum.
Well, that's my personal story for the day.

William Lippert
The American University

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 19:47:40 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: 50TH: MATERIAL FROM THE LONGEST DAY ARCHIVES

  October 19, 1994

  Doug McCabe has been kind enough to send me selected files from the Cornelius
Ryan Collection, Archives and Special Collections, Alden Library, Ohio
University, Athens, Ohio 45701.  These consisted of correspondence and
interviews with various officers in the 4th Infantry Division about D-Day.  This
material was a part of the research done for THE LONGEST DAY.
  Although I was familiar with a great deal of the information which appeared in
these files, there were a few items which were new to me or I had forgotten.
  General Barton, who commanded the division, went to visit one of the ships
carrying soldiers from the 8th Regiment.  He had formerly commanded this
regiment.  Hence it is perhaps not surprising that he selected it to make the
assault on Utah Beach.  When he arrived at the dock in Torquay, he was greeting
with vigorous booing.  Shocked, he got back into his car and returned to
Portsmouth.  He learned only later that the soldiers were not booing him but an
unpopular company commander.
  General Blakeley, who commanded the Division Artillery, told of being
by chance driven, after going ashore in Normandy, by a man he had busted from
sergeant to private in England.  It appears the man had got involved in an
incident in England, where he had changed a number of direction signs, as a
prank.  Neither of them said anything about this in France.  Blakeley met the
man after the war and was relieved to find he bore no grudges and understood why
he had been busted.  (Thus demonstrating that generals are also human.)
  Lt. Col. Thomason, who commanded the 29th Field Artillery Battalion, told of
getting a sore throat shortly before the landing.  (The 29th was supporting the
8th Regiment, and Thomason and I crossed the channel on the same landing craft
as Col. Van Fleet, who commanded the 8th.)  Tommy recalled in his interview that
he had said to me, "John, I can't talk.  You will have to speak for me."  After
getting ashore, the sore throat disappeared, and he later attributed it to
tension.  (I can add that the written record of the interview spelled my name as
Ousland, which is not unusual.  It also appeared that way on the credits of the
Norwegian version of an adventure film in which I appeared.)
  Unfortunately, while there was correspondence between Ryan and Van Fleet about
an interview, there was no record of an interview.  This is regretable, since I
would like very much to see what he had to say.  (A few years before his death,
Van Fleet started work on an autobiography, but it never got off the ground.)
  Finally, I can add that I had a talk with Ryan here in Oslo in the early
1970s.  It was at a dinner for a group of enthusiastic salmon fishermen, who
were on their way to the Alta River in North Norway.  During the conversation,
he insisted that we had met during the war.  If we did, I do not recall it.
  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 14:11:10 -0400
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: TRIV: Helmet straps

        While not the best source for primary information, a while back
I watched a particular episode of "Combat!" that piqued my curosity so
I'm bringing my questions to the veterans on the list.  In the episode,
Sarge's squad received four new replacements.  The "regulars" were
helping the replacements get acclimated and they were told not to strap
their helmets on (as if it wasn't a good idea).  They left it at that
with no explanation.  Since the U.S. Army was a consultant for the show,
I suspect that this was truly done.  So my questions are: were helmets
not strapped on and, if not, why not?  I figure veterans who had to wear
the things could share their thoughts on the matter.  Thanks.
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
I thought I told you to get me a good-lookin'
kid -- not this fat, sausage-chewin' wino!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 19:46:00 UTC
From:    "Edward S. Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: TACT: Japan if no Pearl Harbor

Ludwig Goller writes:

  > Let's think about the following scenario: The Japanese attack the
  > Philippines, and the US Navy sends in their Pacific fleet, all
  > battleships and a few carriers for *air support*. This force encounters
  > a Japanese carrier force supported by landbased aircraft from the
  > Philipines. Wouldn't this end in an even greater desaster then Pearl
  > Harbor?

The scenario clashes with the actual US war plan Rainbow Five of 1941. The
US had absolultely no intention of sending the Pacific Fleet to support the
Philippines under any circumstances.  The threat of Japanese air and naval
power there was clearly understood.  Early in 1941 we rejected a British
plea to send the fleet to Singapore, a far better base than Manila. Kimmel,
the CincC Pacific Fleet, was told his mission was to relieve the pressure on
Singapore for 70 days, until the Royal Navy could get there, but he was
forbidden to operate west of 155 degrees E Longitude, that is, west of the
Marshall Islands and Wake Island.  So he developed a plan, WPPac-46, to lure
out Yamamoto for a great battleship fight in the Central Pacific about the
third week of war.  This plan was approved by the Navy Dept in September
1941.  Of course the underlying premise was that war would erupt in the Far
East, not at Pearl Harbor.  The Pearl Harbor attack was not foreseen.  That
scrubbed Kimmel's plan.
  For details see my =War Plan Orange= (US Naval Institute Press, 1991),
chapter 25.
  Edward S. Miller   [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 15:40:07 -0500
From:    Cheryl Kaye Bryant <[email-masked]>
Subject: German post on Romania

I accidentally deleted the post that was in German, could some kind soul
please forward it to me.

Thanks in advance,

C.K. Bryant

*******************************************************************
"The Riskier the road, the greater the profit."    / C.K. Bryant
        The 62nd Rule of Acquisition               / W.I.U. English
*******************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 16:35:04 -0500
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIV: Helmet straps

In message World War II Discussion List writes:
>         While not the best source for primary information, a while back
> I watched a particular episode of "Combat!" that piqued my curosity so
> I'm bringing my questions to the veterans on the list.  In the episode,
> Sarge's squad received four new replacements.  The "regulars" were
> helping the replacements get acclimated and they were told not to strap
> their helmets on (as if it wasn't a good idea).  They left it at that
> with no explanation.  Since the U.S. Army was a consultant for the show,
> I suspect that this was truly done.  So my questions are: were helmets
> not strapped on and, if not, why not?  I figure veterans who had to wear
> the things could share their thoughts on the matter.  Thanks.

I'm no veteran, but the reason (and therefore how you can ID WWII helmets)
is that either at the tail end of WWII, or shortly after, because of lessons
learned, the strap was hooked with a quick release mechanism rather than a
snap.

The reason being that the snap didn't give way under extreme force -- such
as being hit by debris or a shell.  The snap had a stronger holding force
than the spine.  The tendancy was for the helmet to aid in pulling the rest
of your head away from your body -- Not a great "feature" for something
that was supposed to help save your life.

So, by not strapping the helmet down, your helmet may be blown off your
head, but hopefully not aid in the head being blown off.

Something you wouldn't necessarily think of when looking at a helmet...

At least that's the story I was given and I'm sticking with it.  :-)

--
Robert J. Granvin
Southern Minnesota Wing Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 16:42:33 -0500
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Rumania in WW2--Iron Guard, etc

Mike (and anyone else interested)

RE: Nagy-Talavera's THE GREEN SHIRTS & THE OTHERS

A very, very good book--I only wish he had done two books, and
concentrated more on Rumania. (not that I don't have a passing interest
in the Arrow Cross, but Szalzi's just not my sorta guy).
A very good, balanced, unbiased survey of fascism in Rumania.

For a less balanced and more biased look, you might be amused by

[Prince] Michel Sturdza, THE SUICIDE OF EUROPE.  Western Islands, 1968.
     Sturdza served as Antonescu's Foreign Minister in the short-lived
     Iron Guard regime (Sept 1940-Jan 1941).  His views & interpretation
     of the real world are, well, cracked-- the Iron Guard are portrayed
     as the misunderstood defenders of truth & light, they NEVER committed
     any atrocities (yeah, right...), and when the uprising came about in
     January 1941 (it wasn't THEIR fault--Antonescu caused it), why, the
     heroic Iron Guardists couldn't bring themselves to actually fire upon
     their fellow countrymen in the Army, and constantly fired over the
     heads of the advancing troops, heedless of the personal consequences
     (kinda brings a tear to your eye, don't it?)

Alexander Ronnett, ROMANIAN NATIONALISM: THE LEGIONARY MOVEMENT.  Loyola
University, 1974.

      a slim volume, which needed fleshing out; consequently, many events
      are missed.  Still, if you're a completist, it does have some good
      demographics about Guard members.  (no photos, though)

Several good contemporary accounts by Western journalists assigned to
Bucharest in the early war years are certainly worth tracking down.
Robert St. John's FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT, Rosie Waldeck's ATHENE PALACE,
and a third who I can't recall but it might be Derek Patmore's BALKAN
CORRESPONDENT--I'll check further next week.

East European Monographs (Columbia University Press) have done several
titles relating to Rumanian history of the 1930's & 1940's era.  You may
wish to track down one of their catalogs.

And I haven't even had time to mention Mr Quinlan's CLASH OVER ROMANIA yet...

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 16:59:53 -0500
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Rumanian Army in WW2 (& other Balkans forces)

Mike--

a fairly indispensible reference tool you really should try to obtain is
a pair of volumues reprinted by W. Victor Madej at Games Marketing in 1982.

SOUTHEASTERN EUROPE AXIS ARMIES HANDBOOK
                 &
SOUTHEASTERN EUROPE AXIS ARMED FORCES ORDER OF BATTLE

reprints of the handbooks published by the US Army during the war, and very,
very, VERY useful.  Table of organisation for a Rumanian corps recon unit?
Officers' lists?  Weapons used?  Sorta like Prego's sauce--it's IN DERE.
Bulgaria, Hungary, and Rumania are covered, with Madej adding notes for
Slovakia & Croatia.

Search it out.  Happy reading!

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:19:54 -0500
From:    Cooper Addison <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIV: Helmet straps

The following is somewhat educated opinion.  In Vietnam infantry didn't
strap their helmets.  Why? Who knows--we just didn't, maybe it wasn't
cool or somthing.  I have mental images of troops running and using one
hand to hold their helmet on their head and people dropping to the ground
at the start of a firefight while helmets rolled across the ground.
There is an old story that the blast from arty wouls rip your head off or
some such but it's B.S. because all the straps I ever saw had a ball and
claw fixture which would release under pressure.

Cooper

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:21:47 -0500
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIV: Helmet straps

For what it's worth, Sven Hassel, a veteran of countless actions while
serving in a German penal regiment, also relates this advice in a number
of his books.If I remember correctly, the seasoned troopers advise
recruits not to use the chinstraps of their helmets primarily in order
to avoid having their head torn off from a glancing blow or nearby explosion,
but I also seem to recall it as protection from having an opponent grab your
helmet and chokie you with the strap.  Yet another thing they didn't
teach us in library school...

SOURCE: Sven Hassel (pseudonym for Borge Willie Arbing), numerous historical
        novels based on his personal experiences while serving in
        the "27th Penal Panzer Regiment"

checkmate king two, this is white rook, over  (couldn't resist)

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 18:54:34 -0400
From:    "Robert F. Kieran" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIV: Helmet straps

        From: Barone <[email-masked]>
        Subject: TRIV: Helmet straps
        Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 14:11:10 -0400

                While not the best source for primary information, a while back
        I watched a particular episode of "Combat!" that piqued my curosity so
        I'm bringing my questions to the veterans on the list.  In the episode,
        Sarge's squad received four new replacements.  The "regulars" were
        helping the replacements get acclimated and they were told not to strap
        their helmets on (as if it wasn't a good idea).  They left it at that
        with no explanation.  Since the U.S. Army was a consultant for the show,
        I suspect that this was truly done.  So my questions are: were helmets
        not strapped on and, if not, why not?  I figure veterans who had to wear
        the things could share their thoughts on the matter.  Thanks.
        --
        Joe Barone
        [email-masked]
        I thought I told you to get me a good-lookin'
        kid -- not this fat, sausage-chewin' wino!

Joe,

     Although I'm not a veteran, my understanding of this policy is that
if you had your helmet strapped down and there was an explosion of some
sort nearby, [grenade, artillery shell, etc.] the concussion could get
under your helmet and snap your neck. An unfastened helmet would merely
be vlown off your head, leaving you unharmed.

                                                Regards
                                                Bob Kieran
                                                [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 15:41:28 -0600
From:    Dave Neil <[email-masked]>
Subject: Crete

Instead of just saying "Thanks, Terry, great stuff" I would like to
go a bit further and say that not only was it gret stuff, but a great effort
as well.  I appreciate how much time it takes to research, compose, and type.
The same goes to the rest of the WWII-L "Regulars".  Thanks to all of you
for your efforts.  Thought I knew my history and could contribute to this
list, but I've found myself doing *far* more learning that contributing!

                                Dave Neil

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 19:11:22 EDT
From:    William Lippert <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIV: Helmet straps

On Wed, 19 Oct 1994 14:11:10 -0400 Barone said:
                       Since the U.S. Army was a consultant for the show,
>I suspect that this was truly done.  So my questions are: were helmets
>not strapped on and, if not, why not?  I figure veterans who had to wear
>the things could share their thoughts on the matter.  Thanks.
>--
>Joe Barone
>[email-masked]
>I thought I told you to get me a good-lookin'
>kid -- not this fat, sausage-chewin' wino!

    In the old days, there were several reasons not to wear the helmet
straps.  First, they weren't the most comfortable thing in the world.
Second, and this is one of the more important reasons and is even mentioned
in some current US Army field manuals, the bowlish structure of the helmet
will funnel air pressure waves upward and in a focused manner.  For example,
if someone steps on a land mine five feet in front of you, they might absorb
all the shrapnel but the concussion wave may come towards you, get focused
into your helmet, and if you have the strap on your chin may break, your
neck my snap, or your head might even get torn off.  Make sense?  Hope so.

William Lippert
The American University

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 20:13:19 -0400
From:    chris garcia <[email-masked]>
Subject: Luftwaffe Rocket Fighters

I am a new comer to the LISTSERV, but I would like to add this to the
conversation:
I had been playing the Lucasfilms game "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe"
for a year and was especially fascinated by the Me163 Komet rocket
engined interceptor, employed on both fronts in 1944-45.  I began reading
every available book on the Messerschmitt 163, and with some effort
tracked down a couple of the original veterans and exchanged some letters
and phone calls with them.  One lives in New England, theother in
Germany.  The one in Germany is Wolfgang Spate, former commander of
JG400, the squadron of rocket fighters, and later an Me262 jet fighter.
He is proud of his war record, as well he might be, and has been generous
in answering many of my questions.  In a letter I asked him about the
tradition of chivalry amoung air fighters.  his answer was interesting
and i will summarize it:
    In the beginning of the war there was some tradition of chivalry, but
later as the fighting became more bitter all pretense of mercy
disappeared.  He said chivalry is the kind of thing "that it is nice to
talk about at home, behind the warm stove" but that the purpose of war is
to absolutely murder your enemy any way you can.  He wrote of this with
some strong feeling, that war is horrible and there is nothing glamourous
about it, especially for those veterans who have truly experienced it as
he has.  He wrote that he had had two FW-190's shot out from under him on
the eastern front and that both times russian pilots had tried to strafe
him as he came down in his parachute.  In the town next to his air field
(JG 54) a P-51 mustang pilot had strafed a harmless group of farm girls
working in a bean field, killing two and wounding eight.  This was a
turning point for him.  The next day in a furball with british fighter
escorts, he shot down a spitfire.  When the british pilot was floating
down by parachute, Spate thought of the outraged villagers, and blew the
helpless man to pieces with his nose cannon.  I think this memory still
sticks in his heart.  He told me, the worst thing about war- real war- is
that it drains normally decent men of their natural humanity and turns
them for a while into something a little less than human.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 20:40:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Aircraft wreck

The following is from the US AIR FORCE NEWS SERVICE

789.  Vintage aircraft wreckage recovered
     MCCHORD AFB, Washington (AFNS) -- An aircraft recovery team
from here made the trip up Mount Baker, Washington, 8 Oct to recover
remains of what is thought to be a World War II vintage aircraft.
     The wreckage is strewn over a large portion of the remote,
barren northwest slope of Thunder Glacier on Mount Baker.
     That it is an airplane is certain -- the type of airplane has
not quite been determined, although best guess is that it is the
wreckage of a PBY-1 or PBY-2 Navy anti-submarine aircraft, according
to McChord AFB officials.  The number of crew members who might have
been aboard the aircraft at the time of the crash is, as yet,
undetermined.
     The aircraft is thought to have been buried for years by snows
and ice on the mountain and hadn't been uncovered until unusually
warm weather this summer melted the top layers camouflaging the
wreck.
     The wreckage was discovered recently by a hiker, who picked
up some ordnance lying on the ground and turned it in to an
unknown source who turned it in to McChord.
     "We originally thought the wreckage might have been that of a
P-38 that reportedly had gone down in the area sometime in 1947,"
said Lieutenant Colonel Mike Vrosh, 62nd Combat Control Squadron
commander.
     "The P-38 was a US Army Air Forces plane, which was partly why
a team from McChord was sent to recover it, but we were surprised to
find that it was actually a US Navy plane," he said.
     Wreckage included pieces of the tail, an engine, parts of the
wheel gear, a 50-caliber (12.7 mm) machine gun, and 30- and 50-
caliber (7.62 and 12.7 mm) ammunition.
     "We also recovered some remains of the missing aircraft's
crew," Vrosh said.  "I found a dog tag belonging to one of the crew
members, but the name is not releasable at this time."
     The remains of the crew members were transported to Madigan
Army Medical Center near here.
     The wreckage site and equipment recovered in the search have
been turned over to US Naval authorities for further investigation.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 21:04:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 20 OCT 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FRIDAY, 20 OCTOBER 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  F-7, Consolidated Liberator
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang
  P-61, Northrop Black Widow

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 9 P-47s hit encampments and stores
near Naha; 5 others knock out a road bridge near Wanling and hit a supply
dump in the area, while 4 more attack troops and supplies in the Nansiaung
area. Transports fly 200+ sorties in the CBI. In India, the 490th Bombardment
Squadron (Medium), 341st Bombardment Group (Medium), moves from Dergaon to
Moran with B-25s.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): 18 B-25s bomb docks and storage area at
Samshui and the town of Kweiping; 28 P-51s and P-40s join the attack on the
Samshui area; 77 P-40s and P-51s on armed reconnaissance pound road, river,
and rail traffic, town and village areas and other targets of opportunity
around Kweiping, Menghsu, Shawan, Kaotienhsu, Pingnam, Hsenwi, Wuchou,
Dosing, Tanchuk, and coastal areas of French Indochina including Hongay.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In the Netherlands, the 9th
Bombardment Division hits the Geertruidenberg/Parenboom and Moerdijke rail
bridges; attacks on other targets are aborted because of bad weather.
Fighters fly armed reconnaissance over E France and widespread areas of W
Germany, attack railroads and various military targets, and support US Third
and Seventh Armies' elements in E France.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 480+ B-17s and B-24s attack an
oil refinery at Brux, Czechoslovakia, oil storage at Regensburg, an airfield
at Bad Aibling, and marshalling yard at Rosenheim, Germany and marshalling
yard at Innsbruck, Austria, motor transport, armament plants, and ordnance
works at Milan, Italy, plus scattered targets of opportunity. P-38s and P-51s
escort the Brux, Czechoslovakia and Regensburg, Germany missions.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, the weather clears,
permitting for the first time in several days a maximum effort by medium
bombers which attack 12 bridges and railroad fills in the Po Valley; fighter-
bombers of the XXII Tactical Air Command, operating on full scale, blast gun
positions, troop concentrations, supply dumps, and communications targets in
close support of the US Fifth Army's drive on Bologna from the S; the fighter-
bombers concentrate on approaches to the Monte Grande area to prevent
counterattacks.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 6 Saipan Island-based P-47s bomb and strafe
Pagan Island; later in the day 4 B-24s hit the island. During the night of
20/21 Oct a B-24 on a snooper mission bombs Iwo Jima Island. In Hawaii, HQ
VII Fighter Command moves from Ft Shafter to Hickam Field; the 549th Night
Fighter Squadron, 7th Fighter Wing, arrives at Kipapa Field from the US with
P-61s.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s bomb Davao on
Mindanao Island. B-25s hit Amboina town on Ambon Island. In New Guinea, the
2d Photographic Charting Squadron, 311th Photographic Wing, arrives at
Hollandia from the US with F-7s; the 6th Troop Carrier Squadron, 374th Troop
Carrier Group, moves from Nadzab to Biak Island with C-47s; the ground
echelon of the 8th Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron, 6th Photographic
Reconnaissance Group, begins a movement from Biak Island to Leyte Island,
Philippine Islands (air echelon continues operating from Biak with F-5s); the
67th Troop Carrier Squadron, 433d Troop Carrier Squadron, moves from
Hollandia to Biak Island with C-47s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 19:14:21 -0700
From:    Jim Curry <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The ULTRA what-if (Axis Taking Russia from both ends)

In the late 1930's the Japanese took on the Red Army in two border battles
and were badly beaten(virtually the only accounts in English of these events
are by Alvin Coox.)  This cooled Japanese enthusiasm for taking on  the
Soviets.  The "go south" or "tosei-ha" faction in the Japanese military
won out over the "kodo-ha" or "go north" faction.  The Japanese signed a
nonaggression pact with Stalin in the spring of 1941.  Barbarossa was a
surprise to the Japanese.  The Japanese didn't bother to let Hitler know
when they went on the warpath in December 1941, either!  Obviously grand
strategic coordination among the Axis left something to be desired.
If the Japanese had stabbed the Russians in the back instead of attacking
in the Pacific they might have had a serious effect.  Moscow was saved
by troops transferred from Siberia and commanded by Zhukov, who had trounced
the Japanese at Nomonhan.
Jim Curry

On Tue, 18 Oct 1994, Oliver Bonham-Carter wrote:

> Does anyone know why Germany and Japan didn't both invade Russia at the
> same time (unless they did)? If they had invaded (both starting at their
> closest end of Russia) they could have easily taken it (that's if the weather
> wasn't too cold...). That way, Russia would have been so pre-occupied that
> their supplies and man-power would be streched to a minimum at both ends.
> I thought I read something long ago that suggested a reason why they
> didn't both invade at the same time, working their way towards the middle
> (meeting each other). As memory would have it though, I've forgotton
> almost everything, including the reading source (DRAT!)...
>
>
> [email-masked]
>  "This is it... so read it!"
>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Oct 1994 22:37:33 -0400
From:    David Rising <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Recollections of the Point

Great stuff Doug, I appreciate it (as does, I'm sure, everyone else).
Keep it coming. Cheers,
David Rising

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 18 Oct 1994 to 19 Oct 1994
*************************************************