Subject: WWII-L Digest - 10 Oct 1994 to 11 Oct 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 00:00:30 -0400

There are 57 messages totalling 1969 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. "Dambusters" and German Electric Capacity (3)
  2. GEN:Laconia (2)
  3. Research (2)
  4. MEDIA: Bombs in Berlin (5)
  5. Safe Passage
  6. INF: USN Chronology 10-11-94
  7. INF: 50 Years Ago - 12-OCT-1944
  8. TACT:Could they have won ? (3)
  9. The Italians
 10. Role of Unions dirung WW-II (2)
 11. Carlson's Raiders
 12. GEN: Sinking of relief ship
 13. BIO: Wingate
 14. Ref: WWIIHRS National Battle
 15. WEAP: Ta-183 (4)
 16. Home: US: Illinois at war (4)
 17. Sources for British history
 18. quick help (6)
 19. BIO:  Wingate (3)
 20. Untold Stories f/ABTF, Pt. 4
 21. Quick help (2)
 22. WEAP: Bazooka (2)
 23. Invasion of Crete -- Operation Merkur
 24. French ports (2)
 25. DISC u-boats, a new topic
 26. quick help GNIESENAU
 27. von Werra (was Switzerland...)
 28. [INF] USAAF 12 OCT 44
 29. Churchill's bad decisions (from Economic Causes of the
 30. Home: US at war

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 00:10:45 EDT
From:    Henry Sirotin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: "Dambusters" and German Electric Capacity

Dear John,

Do you have more info or a source on the Luftwaffe 1943 plan against Russian
electrical installations? I would have thought these plants beyond the
Luftwaffe's range at that time, regardless of other tactical demands.

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 00:13:55 EDT
From:    Henry Sirotin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN:Laconia

Dear Drew,

Not sure how the safe passage was arranged- probably through Russia or
Switzerland. There's a heck of a thesis out there for someone on these
kinds of contacts, especially now that some of the intermediary archives
are opening up.

HS

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 16:29:11 -0600
From:    Dave Neil <[email-masked]>
Subject: Research

I've noticed that some of you have been quoting and recommending sources
that are printed in a language other than English.  Obviously, some
knowledge is out there that us English-only speakers are missing.  My
question is, "How much?"  Do any of you feel that your research would've
been seriously impeded by being restricted to English only sources?  Do
any of you feel your research IS seriously impeded by being restricted to
English-only sources?  Although I've had four years of Russian, I would hate
to try to decipher a Russian language source, unless, of course, I was
a REAL Historian (with a capital "H") and not a hobby-historian.  I would
think it would take a real command of the language, not just a working
vocabulary.  Comments, suggestions, rotten fruit?

                        Dave Neil

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 11:30:55 +0100
From:    Ludwig Goller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Bombs in Berlin

On Mon, 10 Oct 1994, Oliver Bonham-Carter wrote:

>         As you all know, several WWII bombs exploded in Berlin while workers
> were digging down under a building.
>
>         Does anyone know how these bombs came to be in Berlin and were never
> shot off (after all this time)? Were they laid there as the British and
> Americans came thru and were mal-functioning? Someone must know where
> they were located because I'm sure there was a plan of areas to bomb. And
> finally, is there any chance of an international problem because of the
> bombs? Would the Germans expect some kind of compensation for the
> families of the workers?
>
> Anyone?
>
> [email-masked]
>  "This is it... so read it!"
>
There are air photographs taken by allied pilots after the attacks. These
photographs are taken by german authorities to determine where not
exploded bombs might be a threat. In the last weeks I read that at least
five percent of the allied bombs did not explode; after the war, as
Germany had been destroyed to a large part, nobody really cared for the
hidden danger because the main problem was to find something to eat and a
place to live.
Concerning an "international problem", I don't believe in it. The bomb
exploded because the builders of the house did not consult the
authorities mentionned above, which was a grave mistake, as could be seen :-(

Ludwig

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 07:18:32 EDT
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Safe Passage

     How was the safe passage agreement arranged?-Drew

     Drew,

     I'm working from memory here, and totally without a net, but I do
     recall an instance where the Japanese worked a Safe Passage for (I
     believe it was) a pair of vessels, transporting POWs and civilian
     internees.

     The agreement (route to be taken, markings the ships were to
     carry, night lighting, etc.) was worked through the Swedish
     embassy.

     These may (or may not) be the ships you refer to, but if the
     Swedes did the job once, they'd probably be willing to do it again.

             Steve L. New                     .............................
             Weapon System Manager            .............................
             Battalion Countermine Set        ............ /\ .............
             U.S. Army TACOM AMSTA-IM-FR1D    ............/  \.............
             DSN: 786-5403  FAX: 786-7788     ............    .............
             EMAIL  [email-masked]   ............    .............

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 06:36:20 PDT
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 10-11-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
10/11 Wed. Aircraft from two carrier task groups (Vice Adm. J.
           S. McCain and Rear Adm. R. E. Davison) attack
           airfields and other enemy facilities in northern
           Luzon, P. I.
            United States naval vessel sunk:
             PT-368, by grounding, western New Guinea area,
              01 d. 59'N., 127 d. 57'E;
              sunk by United States forces.
            Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             Transport NO. 105, by submarine TREPANG (SS-412),
              off Honshu, Japan,
              33 d. 18'N., 137 d. 42'E.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 04:38:05 -0700
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 12-OCT-1944

On 12-OCT-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The Germans mount an air and artillery counter-attack on the
Bardenberg-Euchen line in the Aachen sector. The Allied bombing and shelling
of Aachen continues.

Eastern Front - The 2nd Ukraine Front captures Oradea, in Transylvania. The
battle for Debrecen continues. The Russians capture Subotica in Yugoslavia
near the Hungarian frontier.

Italian Front - The US IV Corps make another effort to capture the summit of
Monte Cavallara but are repulsed. Attacks in this sector are suspended. An
attack by the US 91st Division at Livergnano is also repulsed. In the British
sector the V Corps press on from the Rubicon towards the river Savio and
Cesena. The 10th Indian Division advance towards Monte dell'Erta And cross the
Rubicon. The 46th Division captures Casale.

Greece - The German rearguards evacuate Piraeus. Athens is declared an open
city. British troops land at Corfu and near Sarande in southern Albania.

Peleliu - The 1st Marine Division launches a series of attacks against Mount
Umurbrogol.

Pacific - In preparation for the invasion of Leyte, in the Philippines, TF
38 of the 3rd Fleet, under the command of Admiral Bill Halsey, begins a
series of attacks on Formosa and Luzon. The attacks continue for five days
and meet strong resistance from Japanese aircraft. In the biggest air
battle of the war the Japanese lose about 500 aircrafts, the Americans 89.
The carrier Franklin is slightly damaged and the Australian cruiser
Canberra is seriously hit.

The Homefront
-------------
Roosevelt In Good Health - Vice Adm. Ross McIntire, the President's personal
physician, says that Mr. Roosevelt is in perfect health.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "Facts On File Yearbook 1944,
Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.netcom.com in directory /pub/jbd and can
be accessed via the WWW by URL: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/jbd/ww2.html. If you
have difficulty accessing the Netcom FTP server, please keep trying because it
stays very busy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis     [email-masked]
Cary, N.C.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 07:02:56 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Research

Hello, Dave!

Thanks for your remarks.

> a REAL Historian (with a capital "H") and not a hobby-historian.  I would
> think it would take a real command of the language, not just a working
> vocabulary.  Comments, suggestions, rotten fruit?

    I enjoy reading German and have several works in my own
collection in that language, for instance, General der Panzertruppen
Walther K. Nehring's history of the German tank arm, a role he played
in that directly. This work has not been translated into English, yet
it contains some info that only General Nehring himself would have
known. In order to read that work and others requires a large passive
vocabulary; I wouldn't say a large active vocabulary. It would
require you to have extensive experience in reading German, not
necessarily a speaking knowledge of it.

    My thoughts, anyway.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 07:08:48 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TACT:Could they have won ?

Hello, John!

Thanks for your response.

> Except, this treatment was fundamental to Hitler, a sine qua non of who
> and what he was.  Now, without Hitler, no Nazis, no racist internal and
> foreign policy, no WW2.  Germany would not have initiated the programs
> that led to WW2 without Hitler's peculiar/particular predelictions.

    You are absolutely right about that, John, but I was considering
this question as purely hypothetical. More than one German vet
himself has said the same thing to me. You are right that if Hitler
had adopted that attitude, then there would have been no WWII.

    Thanks, again, John!

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 07:16:39 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: "Dambusters" and German Electric Capacity

Hello, again, John!

Thanks for your reply.

> I believe several German experts (Speer among them) pointed out hhow
> devastating this raid COULD have been if done in conjunction with heavy,
> coordinated raids on the other electrical production facilities (coal
> burning power stations).

    Again, that is correct, but the Allies didn't have the planes,
crews, etc. to conduct operations along the lines that Speer
suggests. Perhaps, if the Allies had waited, things might have been
different, but, in war, everything should have been done yesterday.

    In fact, a conventional campaign smashing the
> electronic transmission stations at the dams and the other power
> generation plants might also have done the trick.  Does the U.S.
> Strategic Bombing Survey address this point?  The Luftwaffe thought of
> initiating just such a campaign against the USSR in 1943 but tactical
> demands were just too great.

    I think I have read of this idea. It was considered, but, again,
the lack of a four-engined bomber nixed this idea. But, John, you
know the Germans had carried out long-range reconnaissance flights
over Moscow on as many as 150 occasions before the invasion of
Russia. The aircraft used here was the Ju-86R. If that aircraft could
fly that distance from Germany, it seems that, even with a minimal
bomb load, that aircraft could have flown to areas beyond the Urals
to bomb military targets, taking off from advanced, captured
airfields. Maybe even then, the exigencies of war worked against this
idea and maybe the distances were still too great. My two cents'
worth on this.

Thanks again for your response.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 07:18:09 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN:Laconia

Hello, John!

Interesting post. I would be interested in the details.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 07:20:56 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The Italians

Hello, Mike!

Thanks for the update. Very interesting!!

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 07:21:48 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Role of Unions dirung WW-II

Hello, Mike and Steve!

I found my source on that, and will post it later.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 07:23:37 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Carlson's Raiders

Hello, Tim!

Ben might have info on this, but I don't think any ever were.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 07:33:47 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Role of Unions dirung WW-II

Hello, Mike and Steve!

Here goes with the post on the coal strike, etc. This is taken from
the Time-Life series of books on WWII entitled "The Home Front".

Strikes proved less of a threat to war production. Shortly after
Pearl Harbor, labor leaders took a no-strike pledge and for the most
part they lived up to it. Overall strikes cost less than one-half of
one percent of all work time and any labor disputes that did erupt
made headlines.

The most notorious involved a series of strikes in 1943, by
approximately 400,000 coal miners who were demanding higher wages.
Their leader, John L. Lewis, a burly man with a silvery gray mane and
a gifted rolling Biblical rhetoric, was by far the most colorful
figure in the American labor movement.

The miners' strike was eventually settled after a small wage
increase, brought demands that all strikers be drafted and revived
discussion of a national service law, similar to Britain's that would
enable the government to assign people to whatever jobs it deemed
necessary. In Jan 1944, Roosevelt called for such a law in his State
of the Union message, but neither business nor labor wanted it. Nor
did most women.

Most employers devised their own answers to the problem of labor
disputes and absenteeism. Many got around government wage ceilings by
introducing such fringe benefits as medical insurance. Jack and
Heintz Precision Industries, a Cleveland company producing airplane
parts gave monthly banquets for employees, provided free Turkish
baths and referred to al of its 9000 employees as "associates".

Hope this helps, and is of interest.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 08:51:40 EST
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Bombs in Berlin

        Further complicating this issue are the number of bombs
that missed their targets by wide margins.  I recall reading (in
the Time-Life series??) that at one point in the war, the British
found that over 90% of their bombs were missing their targets by
at least 5 miles.
*****************************************************
Brad Coon                     Windows: the operating
[email-masked]          system for people who
[email-masked]    think even a Macintosh
                              is too fast.

Remember, only YOU can prevent political correctness!
******************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 06:56:23 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN: Sinking of relief ship

>Wasn't there a US Navy sub commander court martialed for sinking a clearly
>marked Japanese transport sailing under a safe passage agreement in 1944?
>The safe passage was agreed to because the ship carried PoWs.
>
>Henry Sirotin

Clay Blair Jr devotes about 6 pages to this in _Silent Victory_

The skipper was Elliot Loughlin, the sub was Queenfish, and the relief ship
was AWA MARU.  The United States, through Switzerland, arranged to have
relief supplies sent from Japan to the POWs.  The Japanese loaded it up
with airplane parts and a meager 2,000 tons of relief supplies.  On the way
back it was loaded with raw rubber and 1700 passengers, in violation of the
agreement.  There was apparently only one survivor who was brought back by
Queenfish.

Loughlin received a general court-martial and was found guilty of
negligence in obeying orders.  As I stated earlier, he became a Rear
Admiral to the surprise of some who thought this black mark would keep him
from that rank.

John Riegsecker                                 (206) 756-3566
Dept of Math and Computer Science               [email-masked]
University of Puget Sound

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 08:55:38 EST
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Bombs in Berlin

Ok, time for what is perhaps a really dumb question.  I have
often wondered why so much effort is expended in defusing bombs,
mines, shells, etc. in areas such as fields, construction sites
and so on.  In relatively open areas, both today and during the
war, it seems to make more sense to simply detonate them in place
and not risk someone's life.  Why do they defuse them?
*****************************************************
Brad Coon                     Windows: the operating
[email-masked]          system for people who
[email-masked]    think even a Macintosh
                              is too fast.

Remember, only YOU can prevent political correctness!
******************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 10:00:48 EDT
From:    Richard Kaplan <[email-masked]>
Subject: BIO: Wingate

Orde Charles Wingate, born 2/26/03 in Naini Tal, India, died 3/24/44 as the
result of an air crash in Burma.

Raised in India, went to school at Charterhouse and the Royal Military Academy
at Woolrich, Wingate was commissioned in the Royal Artillery in 1923.  He
served in the Sudan from 1928-33, doing some explorations of the Libyan desert.
In 1936 he was sent to Palestine as an intelligence officer.  He was not the
typical British officer, and was viewed as eccentric by Arabs, Jews, and
fellow officers and Colonial Office types.  He blended Hindu philosophy with
good old fashioned bible thumping, learned Hebrew, and forced his way into
Jewish Administrative circles.  His ideas for protecting British interests in
Palestine were a radical departure from the accepted thinking.  He felt that
the Yishuv (pre-state Jewish Community) held the key for Britain, and persuaded
his superiors, and the Haganah to cooperate in forming Special Night Squads
that would protect outlying settlements, and the oil pipeline from Mosul to
Haifa.  This was one of his first successful applications of unorthodox
military procedure.  Wingate became a little to committed to the Zionist
cause, and was recalled to England in 1939.  However he succeeeded in his role,
protected the pipeline, and helped lay the foundation of the Palmach and later
the IDF.  Among his disciples was Moshe Dayan.

>From January to May 1941 Wingate led a mixed Ethiopian - Sudanese force in the
recapture of Addis Ababa from the Italians; he was accompanied by Ethiopian
leader (Emperor) Haile Selassie.

Ater the Ethiopian campaign, Wingate went to India and formed and trained the
Chindits.  According to Brittanica he assisted in the training of "Merrill's
Marauders" too.  The CHindits made history by crossing into Japanese occupied
Burma at the Chindwin River, fighting in the enemy rear until they reached the
Irawaddy River, all th time being resupplied by air.  The Chindits succeeded in
returning to India after failing to cut Japanese lines along the Salween River
due to terrain.  In March 1994 Wingate was named commander of airborne troops
for the invasion of central Burma, and was killed a short time later.

I don't think Wingate was a true believer in "Elite" units as much as in
unorthodox methods, and unorthodox structure.  Based on his experiences with
the Special Night Squads, the Ethiopians, and the Chindits, I see a pattern
that accomodates the men and matrerial to the situation.  He could make it work
on a scale larger than small units (squad, platoon, company) but I doubt that
human behavior would be as accommodating on the divisional scale.  Wingate was
also the consumate outsider, even though he was a professional soldier.  He was
an eccentric in his personal beliefs, as well as his military ones.

I've wriiten this on the fly, perousing two Wingate bios, Dayan's bio, and the
Brittanica for an outline.  As an unconventional slldier, Brittanica compares
him to Lawrence and Gordon.

                                        Richard Kaplan
                                        Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 15:19:02 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Bombs in Berlin

On Mon, 10 Oct 1994, Drew Halevy wrote:

> >     I also read that in Europe some 5000 or so people die a year from WWII
> > munitions.  Anyone have any idea to the validity to this claim?  That should
> > answer some of the questions.
>
> I remember watching a program on PBS or Discovery of a UBX team in
> Belgium (Holland?) that goes around today digging up rounds from WWI and
> WWII. A very interesting program.-Drew

Belgium, probably: Holland was not involved in WWI. The problem is the
biggest in the South-West corner of Belgium, were the WWI frontline was.
The farmers are used to it; they drag any ammunition they find aside, so
that they can continue their work without waiting for the army to clean
things up... And at times fishing boats return with old mines and such in
their nets.

The chemical ammunition from WWI is a serious problem; they can't just
detonate those to get rid of them. Until a few years ago it all was simply
stored in open air, until the people who lived nearby began to object.  A
processing plant is know under construction.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 11:20:16 -0400
From:    QUACK <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TACT:Could they have won ?

Another question or observation I have: Why did Hitler keep the "losers"
in "his employ."  What a gang!

Ron

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 10:37:15 CST
From:    "SCHERRER, TIM" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ref: WWIIHRS National Battle

I attended the WWIIHRS National Battle at Hooper, NE this past weekend.
The event was a good, but small one.  There were approximately 200
reenactors present, with an even split between allied and German.

The site was a camping/fishing site called Spring Lake.  It had 250
acres of land.  The main area was shaped like an O, with a river on the
westside, a wooded area on the south, a wooded area on the north with a
small lake and a camping area on the east.  The middle was a corn field
with unharvested corn.  Above this area on the bluff was the POV
parking/unathentic area that included the vendors area and mes tent.  A
steep road led to the authentic camping/play area that was manned by a
gate insuring only authentic items and people went below the farbe area
on the bluff.

Tha range of vehicles was small but large enough to aloow effective
transport and interesting scenarios.  The allies had a M-5 Stuart tank,
a quad .50 cal halftrack minus the quad .50, a 1 1/2 ton truck, and
about a half a dozen jeeps.  Axis troops had two Ford trucks, a
Kubelwagen, a mock BMW motorcycle/sidecar, and a 75mm PAK.

The Saturday began with an allied attack.  My section picked a
defensible section of the road near the river.  We built a small
barricade using a old set of bedsprings, logs, old TV parts and large
pieces of wood to block the road.  The allied attack came shortly after
we finished the barricade with the haltrack in front of the tank.  The
first shot of the battle almost had tragic consequences when a guy in my
squad in the cornfield blasted a GI at about 5 feet with his Kar 98K.
The GI had some powder burns on his hands and face, and bled a little,
but was otherwise OK.  My troop was out of the action for the rest of
the day pending the investigation by the safety committee.

The allies basically ran the halftrack and tank up to the barricade and
then cleared it.  There were some angry tempers when the GI's would
shoot the propane single .50 cal into the cornfield for 10 sections and
yell"Everyone in the cornfield is dead".  After they did this they
refused to take hits from us still "alive" in the cornfrield.  I finally
took the hit and then spent some time with an umpire about this practice
by the GI's.

After clearing the barricade the halftrack and tank took off quickly and
left all the supporting infantry behind.  It was a shame we didn;t have
a deeper defense because we could have messed with those unsopported
vehicles for a couple of hours without support.

The next position to fall back to was the woodlines south of the
cornfield.  We got back in there and here comes the halftrack with the
.50 cal "Everyone on the left side of the road is dead".  I about lost
it at this point--not only is that unauthentic and unrealistic--it makes
for a very boring event--and I complained to the overall German CO who
took it to the Allied CO which finally stopped the practice.  It would
definately do damage but they weren't aiming it at specific target--just
shooting it randomly into the area.

The tank followed into the woodlines and finally got knocked out but a
guy running behind it carrying a PPsh.  The entire weekend the armor and
halftracks did not get supported by infantry and we had them for lunch
.  The "dead pool" was a flag that people out of action gathered at for
10 minutes and then went back into the fray.

I came back into the action, only to get knocked out by the unsupported
tank attacking from our rear where it had gotten knocked out before.  At
this point we broke for lunch.  We were pretty frustrated and angry by
this time--the way the allies were playing we couldn;t do anything.

The scenario reversed after lunch and we Germans attacked the allies in
approximately the same positions.  I took my squad of 6 through the
middle of the cornfield to the southern woods, while the main attack
went down the east road.  We ended up in the seam between the units
defending the eastern and western road however the allies reacted and
pinned us down quickly.  The terrain had very little undergrowth so we
couldn;t move without drawing fire.  The position was impossible--so
using the luxury of knowing no will get hurt--I had whomever in the
squad expose themselves just so they could get shot and we could regroup
and reattack in a less defensible area.

We went down the road on the northern edge of the southern wood to the
dead pool, and came back into it when a pretty heavy firefight was going
on at the corner.  The allies had placed the halftrack in a position in
defilade so the .50cal could shoot down the road.  It was a good
position.  We ran into problems when the GI's defending the H/T were
stingy with taking hits.  Several attempts were made at taking the H/T
which failed.  The one route that could have easily taken it out was out
of bounds .  Finally it got down to two germans versus one GI left.  The
German crawled up and got the draw on the GI and blasted him with the MP
-40.  The GI refused to take the hit until an umpire ordered him to.  He
then threw his helmet and stormed off.  The other German threw a sticky
grenade at it and finally opened the road.

 My squad made several more unsuccessful attempts in the woods before we
found an area we could get into.  We finally had success in taking
terrain on our bellies.  We crawled up, picking off GI's and Brits along
the way.  It took us an hour to go about 50 yards, and we got a squad in
the process.

After this the scenario finally broke down and for the most part ended,
except for an interesting encounter between the PAK and tank.  The PAK
got the tank rounding a corner, although the crew did not hear the shot
and ran right up to within about two feet of the PAK.  Finally they took
the hit and quit.  Everyone left the field by about 5pm and prepared for
dinner and the National HRS meeting that night.

The Sunday battle had two squad of GI's with the H/T going up against
two squads of Germans.  They were to attack down a small road in the
northern wooded area near the attack.  The terrain was ideal for this
small unti action.

The allies were supposed to jump off but we decided to suprise them and
attack first.  The battle would go hot and heavy for 10
minutes--everyone would get hit--wait their time out and then it would
start up again 15 minutes later for about 10 minutes.  The half-track
was again unsupported, and we managed to hit it with mines at two blind
corners which set off ambushes.  The allies were not even close to the
halftrack.  After the second ambush, I took the remaining three of my
sqaud plus one or two we ran into along the way and came in from behind
to hit the GI's flanks.  We ended up going too far and had to come back
in at them.  We found them on the far side of a clearing behind the
halftrack and executed a nice ambush on them, taking out about half the
GI's.  Unfortunately the other half of the GI's were still there and
firing at us.  I had to take a hit from my roomate--which I will never
hear the end of.  That basically ended the play for the morning and the
event.  It went on for about three hot and heavy hours.  Everyone in the
Sunday event had a better time than the Saturday event.

Overall it was a good event.  The problems with the .50cal and hits
are nothing new to reenacting--thre were several inexperienced people
doing this, and once they got straightened out it went much better.
Again the GI's proved the vulnerability of unsupported armor and
vehicles for they spent as much time waiting to come back in as they did
playing.  The site was good and the event was well ran.  The vending was
OK with several gems on sale plus the usual stuff people sell.

The discussion is next year to have the event at a site in the Chicago
area.

TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 12:23:37 -0500
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: "Dambusters" and German Electric Capacity

Richard Muller's "The German Air War Against Russia" discusses the '43 plan
in some detail.  You might also try Plocher.

Regards

Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 12:15:36 CCS
From:    Jorge Merino <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Ta-183

While reviewing a Squadron catalog, I've found a Huma 1/72 scale kit of the
Ta-183, a WWII german jet fighter prototype. It looks quite advanced for
its time. The overall configuration looks similar to the early russian
Yakovlev and Lavochkin jets, but maybe better from my point of view.
I would like to hear some highlights about this fighter. (i.e. how many
prototypes were built, how much successful was this plane in test flights,
is there any survivor, etc).

Jorge Merino

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 12:25:23 -0500
From:    Michael D Wallick <[email-masked]>
Subject: Home: US: Illinois at war

The V-Home campaign attempted to get every member of every family in every
American home involved in the war effort.  Beginning in 1942, window
display placards were awarded to households which had followed the
instructions of the Air Raid Wardens; conserved food, clothing,
transportation, and health; salvaged essential war material; refrained
from spreading rumors and fostering racial intolerance; and purchased U.S.
War Savings Bonds and Stamps.

In November 1942, Kenney, Illinois--population 483--was the first
community in the country to achieve 100 percent participation in the
V-Home campaign.  It was the focus of state and national attention.

Source: Bailey, Robert E. and Elaine Shemoney Evans.  ILLINOIS AT WAR,
1941-1945: A SELECTION OF DOCUMENTS FROM THE ILLINOIS STATE ARCHIVES.
Springfield, Ill.: Illinois State Archives, 1994.

Michael Wallick

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 12:46:48 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Bombs in Berlin

Hello, Drew!

The fact that the British had trouble bringing their bombs to within
five miles of the target lies in the fact that this refers to their
bombing at night. If they got to within that distance at the time,
they were fortunate. Later on, with better night navigationals
devices, this distance was shortened, of course.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 12:46:33 -0500
From:    Michael D Wallick <[email-masked]>
Subject: Home: US: Illinois at war

On October 25, 1944, Staff Sergeant Clyde L. Choate, Company C, 601st
Tank Destroyer Battalion, was commanding a tank destroyer near Bruyeres,
France.  After enemy armor had set fire to his tank destroyer, Sergeant
Choate entered the flaming hull and searched for his crew members under
direct fire from the enemy tank and a company of German infantry.  When the
Nazi tank was overrunning American foxholes, Sergeant Choate set after it
with a bazooka.  He stopped the tank with a rocket, used his pistol to kill
two of the crew as they fled, and then dropped a grenade into the turret.
With their tank destroyed, the Nazi infantry became disorganized and
unable to capture a battalion command post.  For this act of bravery,
Sergeant Choate was awarded the Medal of Honor.

Sergeant Choate, who had less than three years of service, received base
pay of $96.00 a month and combat pay of $5.00 per pay period.  The Medal
of Honor earned him an additional $2.00 per month.

Sergeant Choate was from Anna, Illinois.  After the war, he served 15
terms as a Democratic Representative in the Illinois General Assembly.

During World War II, 433 Medals of Honor were authorized.  Army personnel
received 256, Army Air Corps 38, Navy 57, Marines 81, and Coast Guard 1.

Source: Bailey, Robert E. and Elaine Shemoney Evans.  ILLINOIS AT WAR,
1941-1945: A SELECTION OF DOCUMENTS FROM THE ILLINOIS STATE ARCHIVES.
Springfield, Ill.: Illinois State Archives, 1994.

Michael Wallick

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 13:06:19 -0500
From:    Michael D Wallick <[email-masked]>
Subject: Home: US: Illinois at war

>From 1942 through 1945, the rendering industry lost as much as thirty
percent of its workers as they were drafted or left for better jobs.
Renderers either worked in conjunction with slaughter and packing houses,
collected waste fats from meat markets in large cities, or salvaged
dead farm animals in rural areas.

In 1945, American renderers produced 190,162,500 pounds of grease,
337,728,600 pounds of meat scraps, and 100,064,000 pounds of hides.

A 1,000 pound horse would produce the following products and by-products:

I.  80 lbs grease
    A.  90 lbs soap chips
    B.  8 lbs glycerine
        1.  20 lbs nitroglycerine
        2.  320-37 mm shells

II.  288 lbs meat scraps
     A.  3200 lbs hog supplement (with other ingredients)
         1.  3200 lbs pork (with grain)

III.  38.5 ft. leather
      A.  1/2 aviator's jacket
      B.  2 pairs soles for Army shoes
      C.  8 pairs soles for civilian shoes

IV.  Tail and mane hair
     A.  Brushes for cleaning guns

Source:
Bailey, Robert E. and Elaine Shemoney Evans.  ILLINOIS AT WAR, 1941-1945:
A SELECTION OF DOCUMENTS FROM THE ILLINOIS STATE ARCHIVES.  Springfield,
Ill.: Illinois State Archives, 1994.

Michael Wallick

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 16:38:53 +0100
From:    Richard Sargent <[email-masked]>
Subject: Sources for British history

Please distribute this notice if appropriate to your list.
Thank you/Una O'Sullivan

>From sargent@clus1 Mon Jul 25 11:38:21 1994
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 09:58:26 +0100 (BST)
From: Richard Sargent <sargent@clus1>
To: deptof@ukanvm
Subject: sources for British history

                      THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF ARCHIVES

The Royal Commission on Historical Manuscripts provides an important
service to historians by maintaining and continuously updating the
National Register of Archives (NRA).  The NRA, set up in 1945, collects
information from record repositories throughout the UK on manuscript
sources for British history outside of the public records.  It consists
of more than 37,000 unpublished lists and catalogues of manuscript
collections, including those held privately by individuals, firms and
institutions, with details, where available, on access to these records
and repository addresses.

Access to this information may be obtained by using the computerised
personal, business and subject indexes in the Commission's search room,
which is open Monday to Friday, 9.30am to 5pm, except on public
holidays.  No written introduction, readers ticket or fee is required,
and a member of staff is always on duty to assist with enquiries.

In addition, the staff at the Commission have produced a set of
information sheets on sources for popular topics of historical research,
e.g. military history, women's history, history of the labour movement, etc.
These are available free of charge on request.

Limited and specific enquries can be answered by post or e-mail.  Please
refer to this notice in any correspondence.

Any suggestions for additional means of publicising the National Register
of Archives on the Internet would be gratefully received.

Royal Commission on Historical Manuscripts
Quality House
Quality Court
Chancery Lane
London WC2A 1HP
Underground: Chancery Lane (Central Line), Temple (District and Circle Lines)

Tel: 071 242 1198
Fax: 071 831 3550
e-mail from 1 August 1994: [email-masked]

THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF ARCHIVES

FACILITIES FOR INTERNET USERS

What is available?

The Commission has made available text files containing
information sheets on sources for various kinds of historical
research, e.g. military history, women's history, etc.  These give a
broad introduction to the major repositories relevant to each area
of research, and illustrate ways in which the NRA can identify
further sources.

Additional text files contain thematic digests of major accessions to
repositories during 1993, which will be updated annually.  Because
some repositories may not yet have had the resources to catalogue
their new collections, some of the records may not be available to
the public.  Further enquiries should be directed to the relevant
repositories, addresses of which may be found in the HMC
publication Record Repositories in Great Britain: a
geographical directory (London: HMSO 1991).

How do I get this information?

1. Coombspapers data bank at the Australian National University

Anonymous ftp (file transfer protocol) coombs.anu.edu.au.

FTP path: /coombspapers/otherarchives/uk-nra-archives
army-uk-archives.txt                    (military archives)
business-uk-archives.txt                (business archives)
colonial-hist-uk-archives.txt           (colonial history archives)
criminal-uk-archives.txt                (criminal & legal history archives)
education-uk-archives.txt               (education history
archives)
family-history-uk-archives.txt          (introduction to family
history)
film-tv-theatre-uk-archives.txt (performing arts archives)
genealogy-uk-archives.txt               (genealogy and family
history archives)
labour-history-uk-archives.txt          (trade unions & labour
archives)
newspapers-uk-archives.txt              (newspapers & journalism
archives)
women-history-uk-archives.txt   (women's history archives)

Gopher: coombs.anu.edu.au; menu: History research in the World

2. University of Kansas virtual library (carrie)

Telnet ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu
login: carrie
Go to Archives section, which contains general information, digests
and information sheets.  The print function of this site will send a
copy of anything being browsed to the browser if desired.

Who can I ask for help?

Searchers are welcome to send limited and specific enquiries by e-
mail to Commission staff at [email-masked].  It may be
necessary to answer some letters by post, particularly if additional
material (such as print-outs from the NRA indexes) is to be
included in the reply.  We therefore ask that all e-mail
correspondents quote a postal address.  Any difficulties with
accessing the information sheets and digests should also be
referred to the Commission as quickly as possible

What can I do for the NRA?

Staff at the Commission are dedicated to identifying as many
manuscript sources for British history as possible, even in
repositories that are outside of the United Kingdom.  Searchers
who know of relevant archives in other countries are invited to
notify the Commission of these collections so that they may be
loaded onto the NRA.  Such co-operation can help ensure that the
NRA's coverage is as thorough as possible.

We also welcome suggestions for additional methods of publicising
the NRA over the internet.

Institute of Historical Research's information server, IHR-
INFO: telnet ihr.sas.ac.uk

Hopefully available by the start of the autumn semester, this server
has been specially tailored for historians.  As well as containing
information on national sources such as the Victoria County
History, the Public Record Office, and the British Library, it
connects the user to on-line library catalogues, navigation tools
such as veronica and archie and information on conferences and
seminars in the Institute.

Useful discussion lists

1.      archives@indycms: mainly a professional list, but
frequently receives     enquiries about manuscript locations.

2.      history@psuvm: mainly researchers; frequent discussions
on sources

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:26:27 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: quick help

        I'm separated from source materials and need a reference:
Can anybody out there (especially you naval history specialists)
tell me the fate of the German battlecruiser Gneisenau?  Not the whole
operational history, just the ultimate end of the ship (i.e., was it sunk,
retired, still under repair--and from what--at the end of war, etc??).
Don't bother digging if you don't have sources handy either-- I can look it
up myself if it takes overnight to get a response.

Thanks in advance

Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 12:41:51 -0600
From:    Dave Neil <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: BIO:  Wingate

Hello Terry -

        I would be interested in hearing more - seems Wingate was not your
typical officer!  Not to imply that all officer's are incapable of independent
thought, but Wingate appears to be more independent than most -militarily as
well as politically.

                                Dave Neil

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 19:46:54 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Ta-183

On Tue, 11 Oct 1994, Jorge Merino wrote:

> While reviewing a Squadron catalog, I've found a Huma 1/72 scale kit of the
> Ta-183, a WWII german jet fighter prototype. It looks quite advanced for
> its time. The overall configuration looks similar to the early russian
> Yakovlev and Lavochkin jets, but maybe better from my point of view.
> I would like to hear some highlights about this fighter. (i.e. how many
> prototypes were built, how much successful was this plane in test flights,
> is there any survivor, etc).

(a) None, (b) no test flights at all, (c) of course no survivors... This
is again a case of a model producer whose imagination compensates for a
lack of real hardware.

The Ta 183 design is quite famous, but it never left the drawing board.
It did strongly influence design practice after WWII, however. Its design
features --- high-set, swept wing, single jet engine, nose intake ---
appeared on a number of post-war jet aircraft, such as the MiG-15 and Saab
J29. Obviously an excellent design.

The best representative of the design must be the I.Ae.33 Pulqui II,
designed by Kurt Tank himself in Argentina and flown in 1950. The Pulqui
II remained a prototype, for economical reasons.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 15:00:39 EDT
From:    Doug McCabe <[email-masked]>
Subject: Untold Stories f/ABTF, Pt. 4

                   Ohio University Electronic Communication

   Date:  11-Oct-1994 02:21pm EST

     To:  Remote Addressee                     ( _MX%"[email-masked]" )

   From:  Doug McCabe                                Dept:  Library
          MCCABE                                   Tel No:  (614) 593-2715

Subject:  Untold Stories f/ABTF, Pt. 4

    [Two of the exhibit panels in Nijmegen focused on American comments and
    recollections of the the Dutch people and the country.  Thus what
    follows:]

         "A Dutch commanding officer told me that the high command of the
    Dutch military were never consulted about the airborne operation in
    their country.  He said that if they had been, they could have told the
    British that Arnhem was impossible to take from the direction it was
    attacked.  From the direction of Nijmegen many hills protected this
    area and it was easily defended.  The Dutch officer said only movements
    from the flanks would be successful.
         In sad testimony to this are the many Polish and British soldiers
    who died in that pocket!"
                                       - Cpl. Rex Buch, 82nd Airborne Div.

         "Holland was difinitely the cleanest and friendliest people I had
    met overseas.  They did everything possible to try to help us do our
    job.  From the looks of the ruins we passed through [it was apparent]
    that they had paid a price but they did not lose their pride."
                             - 1st Sgt. Wilber Scanlon, 82nd Airborne Div.

         "In England the Dutch underground set up a perfect sand table of
    the Drop Zone and surrounding countryside.  They did a remarkable job
    of briefing us!"
                        - 1st Lt. William Mastrangelo, 82nd Airborne Div.

         "Aside from the topography I remember honesty, honor, and
    integrity of the civilians whose homes we destroyed and whose families
    we killed or maimed.  They shared their shelter and food with us.  Any
    veteran of the other drops will tell you that in Sicily and Italy
    within a few hours of the drop our chutes were made into clothing while
    in France they just disappeared.  But in Holland they were gathered up
    by the civilians and returned to us."
                                  - Capt. Jack Isaaca, 82nd Airborne Div.

         "All during this hectic period the Dutch underground carried on
    its extensive and highly dangerous operations.  The underground
    included the nuns, the local priest, Protestant ministers, doctors,
    police, barge men, etc.  Nothing was too risky for them to try."
                   - 2nd Lt. George Brennan, 442nd Troop Carrier Group

         "The other point that I would like to add is the outstanding,
    tireless, courageous, and enthusiastic assistance given to members of
    my command by all the Dutch people living in the Nijmegen area
    throughout the entire time we were in that area."
                                  - Col. Reuben Tucker, 82nd Airborne Div.

         "What I remember about Holland was the absence of women, wine,
    beer, and just about anything else that made life pleasant."
                             - Pvt. William Gray, 82nd Airborne Div.

         "I remember most the cleanliness of the area we were in.  The
    women washed the streets in front of their homes every morning.  Also,
    the abundance of public showers which we welcomed understandably."
                             - T/5 Robert Machol, 82nd Airborne Div.

         "I recall that Holland had excellent plumbing after [having to
    use] England's monstrosities."
                                  - Capt. Lester Stein, 82nd Airborne Div.

         "They were the friendliest people who would help you in any way
    they could.  Some of the Dutch girls made colored dresses from the
    parachutes."
                             - PFC Loenard Tremble, 82nd Airborne Div.

         "They did not like to be called 'Dutch,'  They said the Germans
    were 'Dutch' [Deutch].  They wanted to be called ' Hollanders.'"
                        - Pvt. Robert Cartwright, 82nd Airborne Div.

         "I remember how clean and well kept the fields and the farm houses
    were, and the spirit of all the people.  Most of our men could not
    comment too often or too much on the spirit of the people and their
    intense desire to rid their country of the Germans.  I also remember in
    some heavy fighting in Nijmegen that there was the inevitable
    destruction to homes.  One stout, gray-haired lady came outside her
    house and was sweeping up fragments of bricks while bullets were
    bouncing down the street."
                             - Capt. Carl Kappel, 82nd Airborne Div.

         "The Dutch were wonderful people with a desire to aid us in any
    way possible.  They helped clear the drop zones of resupply and worked
    around the clock in hospitals.  Before the shelling ceased in town they
    were cleaning the streets."
                                  - Sgt. Tommy Gore, 82nd Airborne Div.

         "I remember the Dutch civilians all over the streets picking up
    the wounded on cycle streachers.  How clean Holland looked with
    everything neat and in its place.  It seemed a shame to shoot up the
    place."
                             - PFC Julius Eisner, 82nd Airborne Pathfinders

         "I remember the friendliness of the people.  Some of them brought
    food right to our foxholes, others invited us into their homes and
    prepared meals for us.  It was so different from other countries we had
    been where the people always wanted something from us."
                             -Cpl. Earl Oldfather, 82nd Airborne Div.

    More in a couple of days.

    Doug

Received:  11-Oct-1994 03:00pm

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:26:48 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Ta-183

Hello, Jorge!

Can provide the info, if someone else doesn't. More later.

Terry
> While reviewing a Squadron catalog, I've found a Huma 1/72 scale kit of the
> Ta-183, a WWII german jet fighter prototype. It looks quite advanced for
> its time. The overall configuration looks similar to the early russian
> Yakovlev and Lavochkin jets, but maybe better from my point of view.
> I would like to hear some highlights about this fighter. (i.e. how many
> prototypes were built, how much successful was this plane in test flights,
> is there any survivor, etc).
>
> Jorge Merino
>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:30:04 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: quick help

Hello, Mike

To the best of my knowledge, this ship was captured, turned over to
the Allies and met its end in that atomic bomb tests of the 1950's. I
believe the US was awarded this ship in the division of spoils at the
end of the war.

Hope this helps.

Terry

 >         I'm separated from source materials and need a
reference:
> Can anybody out there (especially you naval history specialists)
> tell me the fate of the German battlecruiser Gneisenau?  Not the whole
> operational history, just the ultimate end of the ship (i.e., was it sunk,
> retired, still under repair--and from what--at the end of war, etc??).
> Don't bother digging if you don't have sources handy either-- I can look it
> up myself if it takes overnight to get a response.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Mike Yaklich
>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:32:15 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TACT:Could they have won ?

Hello, Ron!

This is easy to understand.
> Another question or observation I have: Why did Hitler keep the "losers"
> in "his employ."  What a gang!

    1) Such people were easy to control, 2) Hitler's own policy, if
you consider the setup he used in government, was to allow his
cronies to carve out empires.This combined with his encouragement of
rivalries, allowed Hitler to maintain control. It is the time-honored
ploy of divide and rule.

    That is it in a nutshell.

    Terry

 > Ron

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:35:14 -0500
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Quick help

Mike-
Gneisenau was struck by a British bomb while in dry-dock, being
repaired following mine damage during the dash up the English Channel
in 1942.  It was considered a complete loss and not repaired as I
recall.
Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 15:36:41 -0400
From:    Peter Smith <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: quick help

Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]> asked:
>         I'm separated from source materials and need a reference:
> Can anybody out there (especially you naval history specialists)
> tell me the fate of the German battlecruiser Gneisenau?

I believe the Germans took her main guns off in 1943 and used them in
various shore batteries in The Netherlands and Norway.  The hull was
given to Poland after the war and broken up for scrap.
--
Peter Smith -- Data General Corp., Westboro MA, USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 15:36:11 EDT
From:    Richard Larkin <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Bazooka

        As an avid book reader and wargamer of all things related to WWII,
I have become very curious as to the effectiveness of the U.S. bazooka.  My
problem is that I haven't been able to find any detailed information
regarding the bazooka and its use in battlefield situations.
        My primary interest lies in determining the bazooka's effectiveness
as an anti-armor weapon.  I only know that it had a very short range,
requiring nerves of steel to use, and that it was very difficult to
kill an enemy tank with it.  Can anyone tell me where I might be able to
find this information?
        Although I am mainly interested in the bazooka's usefulness as
an anti-armor weapon, there are other questions about it that I wouldn't
mind having answered as well:
        1. Was the bazooka used much in the Pacific?
        2. How effective was the bazooka as an anti-personnel and building
demolition weapon?
        3.  Are there any personal accounts of bazooka users that can help
answer my questions?
        In order to keep this topic manageable, I am limiting my inquiry
to just the bazooka, not the British PIAT or German Panzerfaust or Panzer-
schrek.  Thank in advance to any help anyone may be able to give me.
Richard Larkin
[email-masked]

Richard Larkin
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:47:09 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Invasion of Crete -- Operation Merkur

Hello, Emery and others!

Here goes with some more info on the Crete operation. When all this
is posted, you will have a good idea as to the exact time the Brits
decided to call it quits on Crete.

The main infantry attack started against the 18th Battalion, heavily
punctuated by mortar bursts. Inglis (one of Kippenberger's senior
officers) rang and asked what all the noise was about and I could
only say that things were getting warm. I estimated the mortar bursts
at 6 a minute on one company sector alone. "Overs" from the German
machine guns were crackling all around our building in the most
alarming manner.

When his telephone system failed, Kippenberger went forward a few
hundred yards to get a better view of the fighting. Fascinated by the
"rain of mortar bombs", he stumbled over a hollow, nearly covered by
undergrowth. In it 'I came upon a party of women and children huddled
together like little birds. They looked at me silently, with blank,
terrified eyes.'

Towards evening, the pressure mounted on Kippenberger's front. The
Germans were now attacking with 6 battalions supported by an
artillery regiment. On the 18th Battalion's sector, mortar bombs were
howling in at 20 a minute and the battalion which was down to 400
men, whose sole supply of mortar ammo was 10 bombs, was also at the
end of its tether. Colonel Grey, the commanding officer, led a
counterattack with a rifle and bayonet. It failed. D-company was
overwhelmed.

More tomorrow.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:48:20 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: BIO:  Wingate

Hello, Dave!

Will begin posting some stories tomorrow. I can't remember who, but
someone posted a great deal of info on him. It was very interesting.
More tomorrow.

Terry

>         I would be interested in hearing more - seems Wingate was not your
> typical officer!  Not to imply that all officer's are incapable of independent
> thought, but Wingate appears to be more independent than most -militarily as
> well as politically.
>
>
>                                 Dave Neil
>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 16:12:00 -0400
From:    Peter Smith <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: quick help

Robert T. Moore <[email-masked]>, addressing the fate of the
Gneisenau, wrote:
> To the best of my knowledge, this ship was captured, turned over to
> the Allies and met its end in that atomic bomb tests of the 1950's. I
> believe the US was awarded this ship in the division of spoils at the
> end of the war.

I believe you're thinking of the Prinz Eugen, which now lies at the bottom
of the Kwajalein lagoon.
--
Peter Smith -- Data General Corp., Westboro MA, USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 15:43:36 -0400
From:    Ron Babuka <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: quick help

>        I'm separated from source materials and need a reference:
>Can anybody out there (especially you naval history specialists)
>tell me the fate of the German battlecruiser Gneisenau?  Not the whole
>operational history, just the ultimate end of the ship (i.e., was it sunk,
>retired, still under repair--and from what--at the end of war, etc??).
>Don't bother digging if you don't have sources handy either-- I can look it
>up myself if it takes overnight to get a response.
>
>Thanks in advance
>

The Gneisenau was undergoing repairs for mine damage at Keil when she was
struck from an aircraft bomb on July 26, 1942.  The bomb set off oil fumes
in the forward section of the ship and the resulting explosion extsensively
damaged the ship back to the gun turrets. The decision was made to rearm
her with twin 15 inch guns in place of the triple 11 inch guns.  The
Gneisenau was then towed to Gotenhafen (Gdynia). There, lack of steel and
labor slowed the conversion and eventually halted it altogether. On March
28 she was towed out of harbor and scuttled to deny the prize to the
advancing Russian forces.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka
Cornell University
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 16:28:20 -0500
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Quick help

Thanks to all who replied to my inquiry about the fate of the Gneisenau.
Just what I needed (and just what I have come to expect--is this list great
or what??)

Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 15:33:46 EST
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: quick help

        The Gneisenau was damaged by British bombers and then again
while being repaired.  The decision was made to rearm her with
6-15" guns in 3 twin turrets.  To this end her bow was removed along
with her turrets.  This work was never completed and she was scrapped
after the war.
        I think Terry is thinking of the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen
which did wind up as a target for American A-bombs.
*****************************************************
Brad Coon                     Windows: the operating
[email-masked]          system for people who
[email-masked]    think even a Macintosh
                              is too fast.

Remember, only YOU can prevent political correctness!
******************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 16:22:03 CCS
From:    Jorge Merino <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Ta-183

> The Ta 183 design is quite famous, but it never left the drawing board.
> It did strongly influence design practice after WWII, however. Its design
> features --- high-set, swept wing, single jet engine, nose intake ---
> appeared on a number of post-war jet aircraft, such as the MiG-15 and Saab
> J29. Obviously an excellent design.

Most russian designers adopted such configuration (Lavochkin, Mikoyan-Gurevich
Yakovlev). Very simple and effective for it's time. Just get an engine, put it
into a nacelle, attach wings, tail and a cockpit, and voila.... you've got it!
Direct russian descendants are the MiG-15, MiG-17, La-15, Yak-23, etc.
Even the MiG-19, MiG-21 and Su-7 families could be described as very advanced
descendants of the Ta-183 configuration.

Jorge Merino

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:19:18 -0400
From:    COHEN <[email-masked]>
Subject: French ports

                          I understand that after the breakout from
Normandy, German units occupying some major ports were allowed "to wither
on the vine," most surrendering only after the cessation of hostilities
in 1945. Is this true? If yes, which ports and wa
what was done exactly to pin down these German units? Also can someone
please provide citations concerning these incidents?

                            Harold Cohen
                            Ithaca College

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 17:23:24 -0400
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: DISC u-boats, a new topic

Drew Halevy <[email-masked]> writes:
> Another  U-boat (number I am not sure of) assisted in this rescue.
> However- an American ASW patrol bomber spotted the subs on the surface
> (decks loaded with survivors) and after seaking guidance from are
> commanders- proceeded to attack the vessels.  Both were forced to dive-
> (even with people still on deck) and many perished before Allied vessels
> arrived on the scene a few hours later.

        Here is some more info that I have on the incident.

        On Spetember 12, 1942, the U-156 sunk the liner "Laconia" near
Ascension Island.  Kapitan-Leutnant Hartenstein surfaced his submarine
to begin rescuing the ship's passengers, mostly Italian prisoners-of-war
and the families of servicemen, and sent a radio message alerting the
Allies to the situation.  Two other U-boats, and an Italian submarine,
changed course to assist, and Admiral Doenitz requested help from Vichy
ships in Dakar.

        The U. S. 1st Composite Squadron on Ascension Island received
a garbled message from the U-156 but was not informed that the Germans
were involved it rescuing the survivors.  It was asked to provide an
air-escort for the British lifeboats.  Meanwhile, on September 16, an
American B-24 Liberator of the USAAF 343rd BS was flying from Ascension
to Africa and spotted the British boats with the surfaced U-156 displaying
Red Cross flags.  The pilot, Lt. Harden, asked for instructions from the
commander of the 1st CS, Captain Richardson, and was ordered to attack.

        On September 17, following this attack on the U-156, which was
still engaged in rescue operations, Admiral Doenitz issued his "Laconia
Order," forbidding U-boats to attempt to save the passengers and crews
of their targets.
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
It's a Mark 6!  And we got her by the ass!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 17:42:43 -0400
From:    David Rising <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Bazooka

On Tue, 11 Oct 1994, Richard Larkin wrote:

>         3.  Are there any personal accounts of bazooka users that can help
> answer my questions?

Try looking up the melee for which Private John Towle won the Medal of
Honor. Good bazooka story there if memory serves correctly. If nobody
else posts it, I will when my next volume of the Congressional Medal of
Honor Library arrives within the next two weeks. Cheers,
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 18:47:31 -0400
From:    "Mr. Scott Hannon" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: French ports

> ...after the breakout from Normandy, German units occupying some major
>ports were allowed "to wither on the vine," most surrendering only after
>the cessation of hostilities in 1945. ...which ports and what was done
>exactly to pin down these German units?

Quite a few of the ports along the Bay of Biscay and along the
English Channel (St Nazaire and Dunkirk are two examples I think).
Some fell/surrendered very soon after being cut off (in August or
early September), but a few held out until the end of the war.

The troops trapped in these ports were garrison troops that didn't
pose much of threat to the Allied rear areas, so 2nd or 3rd rate
forces were considered good enough to blockade them. French ex-FFI
units, newly organizing units, and even a Dutch and Belgian unit or
two I think. Those ports that were demeemed necessary for Allied
plans were of course taken using 1st rate troops (the battle for
Antwerp and the Sheldt estuary was a major battle).

I can't think of any sources dealing with this topic in particular
(apart from the big battles).

Scott.
Scott Hannon, Tue Oct 11 1994 ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 17:16:28 -0500
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: quick help GNIESENAU

Mike--

Battlecruiser GNEISENAU was laid up following Hitler's famous "scrap the
Battleships" order of ca 1943 (like you, I'm doing this sans print sources).
It had suffered some mine damage during the Channel Run, but I think was
more or less operational when it was laid up for possible rearming around
that time (was to receive turrets with 15", or 38cm cannon).  What with
the war & all, rearmament was never completed.  Much-disarmed hulk was
sunk by air attack at Gydnia (or Danzig?) ca 1945.  Partially sunken hulk
disassembled for scrap in the postwar years, with final sections salvaged
in the early 1950's (1952 I seem to recall--its fate played a role in a
"what-if" wargame scenario I was in some fifteen years ago, so I KNOW
some of the hulk had to be still extant in 1950, 'cause it was to have
been the Flagship of the Eastern Directorate-- quite a game, but I digress)

If I could get to Breyer's BATTLESHIPS & BATTLECRUISERS.......

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 19:40:50 EDT
From:    Brian Nicklas <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: von Werra (was Switzerland...)

The book "The One That Got Away" by Kendal Burt and James Leasor, 1957
Random House, NY gives the whole story.
In the acknowledgements the authors state that they had access to a
typescript of an account von Werra dictated upon his return to Germany.
The book states that von Werra was the third escapee, the first, a
U-boat man, went on to Germany, the second, a merchant seaman, was returned
to Canada.  von Werra got a lot of press due to his personality.
It is given on page 253 that "he wrote many 'wish-you-were-here' postcards
to old friends and comrades.  He did not forget more recent acquaintances
the various Army and RAF officers he had met in England."  One card is
reproduced on a photo page of the book.  Then it is mentioned that two
Germans crossed the frozen St Laurence river with the Canadian police
on their heels.  The Americans denied their application for admission,
so they were returned.  The heat was turning up on von Werra, so he
left, leaving his $15,000 bond.  By train to Texas, by foot across into
Mexico at El Paso/Ciudad Juarez.  He then hopped a train to Mexico City,
where he met the German diplomatic corps (awaiting him after notice
from colleagues in NY)  He then left Mexico City on PAN AM (!)  Through
various cities, then to Rome via Spain from Rio aboard a Savoia-Marchetti
flying boat of Lati, the Italian airline.
January 24 to April 18, 1941, one long home run :-)
He was posted to the First Gruppe of Jagd Geschwader 53, and was killed
on October 25, 1941.  According to the book, engine failure compounded
by pilot error was the Luftwaffe board of inquiry cause.
Also, if the topic is of interest, "Single or Return?" by Fritz Wendel
William Kimber Co., London, 1954.  Wendel was an officer on U 32 under
Lt Jenisch lost in late October 1940.  Wendel covers von Werra and
camp life in Canada.
The recent "Spitfire on My Tail" is another good account, but the
author, Ulrich Steinhilper, has a sequel covering his time in Canada
which I have yet to read.  His first book is great for a view of
109 squadron life from POV of a junior officer, and his time in England
after getting shot down.
Hope this helps...
B Nicklas

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 21:12:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 12 OCT 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 12 OCTOBER 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): B-24s hit the airfield and shipping targets in
the Matsuwa Island-Onnekotan Island area.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 18 P-47s bomb railroad targets in
the Naba-Mawlu rail corridor damaging a bridge approach, and strike troops
and stores near Nayakaung; 12 other P-47s hit various targets at Pintha and
Nyaunggon; 4 B-25s knock out a bridge just N of Lashio and 3 others knock out
a bridge at Kawlin and damage tracks near the Man Pwe bridge.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 3 B-25s and 12 P-40s hit the
Chefang storage area and a bridge and general targets of opportunity in the
Mangshih area; 40+ P-40s and P-51s on armed reconnaissance covering wide
areas of S China and extending into W Burma attack troop concentrations,
river traffic, storage areas, and buildings in areas around Taochuan,
Kweiping, Hsinganhsien, Yuncheng, Tanchuk, and Hsenwi.

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Twentieth Air Force): The following B-29 units are
inactivated in India: HQ 58th Bombardment Wing (Very Heavy) and the 795th
Bombardment Squadron (Very Heavy), 468th Bombardment Group (Very Heavy), at
Kharagpur; the 679th Bombardment Squadron (Very Heavy), 444th Bombardment
Group (Very Heavy) at Dudhkundi; the 771st Bombardment Squadron (Very Heavy),
462d Bombardment Group (Very Heavy), at Piardoba.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
  Mission 674: 552 bombers and 514 fighters are dispatched to hit targets in
Germany; they claim 18-3-1 aircraft; 3 bombers and 5 fighters are lost:
  1. Weather prevents the 290 B-24s dispatched to hit the primaries at Vechta,
Achmer, Rheine and Varrelbusch; PFF means were used to hit the secondary, the
marshalling yard at Osnabruck (267); 5 others hit Diepholz Airfield, a target
of opportunity; 2 B-24s are lost and 67 damaged; 19 airmen are MIA. Escort is
provided by 210 P-47s and P-51s; they claim 1-1-0 aircraft in the air.
  2. 262 B-17s are dispatched to aviation industries at Bremen (267) bombing
visually; 1 other hits a target of opportunity; 1 B-17 is lost, 1 damaged
beyond repair and 59 damaged. 7 airmen are KIA, 1 WIA and 9 MIA. Escort is
provided by 273 P-47s and P-51s; they claim 17-2-1 aircraft; 5 P-51s are lost
(pilots MIA).
  Mission 675: 8 aircraft are dispatched to drop leaflets in the Netherlands,
France and Germany during the night; 2 B-24s are lost.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): HQ Ninth AF is delegated
administrative (in addition to operational) control over HQ XII Tactical Air
Command hitherto assumed by US Strategic Air Forces in Europe (USSTAF).
Advanced HQ XIX Tactical Air Command arrives at Nancy, France, following the
advance of the US Third Army. Almost 250 B-26s and A-20s bomb Camp-de-Bitche,
France military camp, rail bridges at Grevenbroich and Ahrweiler, Germany,
city areas of Langerwehe and Aldenhoven, Germany, and Venraij, the
Netherlands, and various targets of opportunity; escorting fighters also fly
armed reconnaissance and rail cutting in the Dusseldorf and Aachen, Germany
and Belfort, France areas, and support the VIII, XII, XV, and XX Corps in E
France and W Germany. In France, the 14th Liaison Squadron, XIX Tactical Air
Command (attached to Third Army), moves from Gussainville to Nancy with L-5s;
the 365th, 366th and 367th Fighter Squadrons, 358th Fighter Group, based at
Vitry-le-Francois, begins operating from St Dizier with P-47s; the 586th and
587th Bombardment Squadrons (Medium), 394th Bombardment Group (Medium), moves
from Bricy to Cambrai/Niergnies with B-26s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Around 700 B-17s and B-24s,
with fighter support, pound ammunition and fuel dumps and depots, bivouac
area, barracks, vehicle repair shop, munitions factory and targets of
opportunity in the Bologna, Italy area (Operation PANCAKE) supporting the US
Fifth Army offensive in that sector. 160 P-51s strafe the mainline railroad
and Danube River traffic in the Vienna, Austria-Gyor, Hungary-Budapest,
Hungary areas and strafe Seregelyes Airfield, Hungary, disrupting traffic and
destroying many enemy airplanes.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, medium bombers,
supporting the US Fifth Army, attack communications, supply dumps, and
bivouac and barracks areas S of Bologna; fighter-bombers and XII Fighter
Command fighters, mainly in support of the US Fifth Army, blast supply dumps,
gun positions, troop concentrations, and communications in the high country S of
of Bologna while the Desert Air Force (DAF) gives similar support to the
British Eighth Army in the Rimini area.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): B-24s from Saipan Island bomb the harbor and
shipping at Chichi Jima and shipping S of Haha Jima in the Bonin Islands, AA
positions on Marcus Island, and the airfield area on Pagan Island. P-47s hit
the Pagan Island Airfield area with bombs and rockets. B-24s from Kwajalein
Atoll bomb Wake Island during the night of 12/13 Oct.

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force): The first B-29, JOLTIN' JOSIE, THE PACIFIC
PIONEER, arrives on Saipan Island, piloted by Brigadier General Haywood S
Hansell, Jr, Commanding General XXI Bomber Command, for whom temporary HQ are
set up on Saipan Island; also the regular air echelon of HQ 73d Bombardment
Wing (Very Heavy) arrives on Saipan Island on this date, followed during Oct
44 and the first week in Nov 44 by 4 bombardment groups and 4 air service
groups; HQ 313th Bombardment Wing (Very Heavy) will be established in the
theater in Dec 44, HQ 314th Bombardment Wing (Very Heavy) in Jan 45, HQ 58th
Bombardment Wing (Very Heavy) in Mar 45, and HQ 315th Bombardment Wing (Very
Heavy) in Apr 45. In Mar 45 HQ VII Fighter Command will be established on Iwo
Jima Island from where some of its units escort B-29 missions.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: On Celebes Island,
B-24s bomb Ambesia, Langoan, Mapanget, and Sidate Airfields. B-25s, A-20s,
and P-47s again pound airfields at Liang and Laha on Ambon Island, Namlea on
Buru Island, Kairatoe on Celebes Island and Haroekoe on Haroekoe Island, and
the town of Boela on Ceram Island. P-38s hit numerous targets of opportunity
on Halmahera Island. In New Guinea, fighter-bombers hit Manokwari and Urarom
and A-20s bomb pillboxes in the Sarmi area.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

12/0114Z OCT

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 21:25:07 EDT
From:    Cassady Craft <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Churchill's bad decisions (from Economic Causes of the

Terry, you referred to 617 being pulled out of the line to bomb the damns,
saying that the mission wasn't necessary to the war effort.  Well, was
nighttime area bombing all that much more necessary or effective?  The ops
that 617 did later in the war, as an "elite" squadron (dropping extremely
large bombs with pinpoint accuracy) seem to make this effort worthwhile in
the long run.  Just 2 cents, anyway.

Cassady Craft
Department of Political Science
University of Georgia
e-mail [email-masked]
or
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 21:30:27 EDT
From:    Cassady Craft <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: BIO:  Wingate

Terry, I know a little about the Chindits, but almost nothing about his
earlier work in Africa.  If it isn't too much trouble..... you know the rest.

Thanks in advance!

Cassady Craft
Department of Political Science
University of Georgia
e-mail [email-masked]
or
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 21:32:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Home: US at war

 >The V-Home campaign attempted to get every member of every family in every
 >American home involved in the war effort.  Beginning in 1942, window
 >display placards were awarded to households which had followed the
 >instructions of the Air Raid Wardens; conserved food, clothing,
 >transportation, and health; salvaged essential war material; refrained
 >from spreading rumors and fostering racial intolerance; and purchased U.S.
 >War Savings Bonds and Stamps.
 >
 >Michael Wallick

George Bauer- another memory jogger!

Yeah, I remember my parents had this BIG Philco radio that also
received shortwave bands (we used to listen to Axis Sally (??) read
the names of POWS).  The radio had a pilot light that gave off as
much light as a lighthouse.  Once during an air raid drill, we had
the radio on, per instructions, but the damn light could be seen
outside the house.  The air raid warden came banging on the door
telling us to turn the light off.  We finally learned to tape
newspapers around the radio to block the light and that seemed to
make everyone happy.

Yesterday, someone mentioned the gasoline "A" card.  If memory
serves me right, the "A" card got you 2 US gallons (7.6 l) of
gasoline per week.  Again relying on memory, I believe that at one
point during the war adults were limited to 2 pair of shoes per
year.  Kids probably got more.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 11 Oct 1994 20:28:41 PDT
From:    Jim Brady <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Home: US: Illinois at war

I have heard that gasoline was not in short supply, but tires were. The
rationing of gas was meant to slow the consumption of rubber. Does anyone
know if this is a contortion of facts or possibly the actual truth of the
matter?

-- Jim Brady

>On December 1, 1942, gasoline rationing was started in the Midwest.
>Civilians were issued ration stamps which were of three grades A, B,
>and C.  A stamps were given to people who had no priority.  B coupons
>were issued to individuals who did essential driving to jobs in the
>defense plants.  C stamps went to people who did more necessary driving
>such as doctors.  A special X stamp, which was for unlimited gasoline,
>was reserved for administrators of government agencies such as the Office
>of Price Administration.
>
>The OPA estimated that nationally five percent of the gasoline sold was
>done illegally.  In Chicago, fraud was involved in about 35 percent of
>gasoline sales.
>
>Source:
>Bailey, Robert E. and Elaine Shemoney Evans.  ILLINOIS AT WAR, 1941-1945:
>A SELECTION OF DOCUMENTS FROM THE ILLINOIS STATE ARCHIVES.  Springfield,
>Ill.: Illinois State Archives, 1994.
>
>Michael Wallick
>

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 10 Oct 1994 to 11 Oct 1994
*************************************************