Subject: WWII-L Digest - 9 Oct 1994 to 10 Oct 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 00:18:46 -0400

There are 50 messages totalling 1398 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. HYPO: The "Big" what-
  2. INF: USN Chronology 10-10-94
  3. Churchill and his cigars
  4. INF: 50 Years Ago - 11-OCT-1944
  5. GEN:Laconia (5)
  6. German war crimes bureau
  7. HIST -- German war crimes tribunals (2)
  8. Media: The American Experience
  9. Ref: Do I really want to buy a tank (2)
 10. Role of Unions dirung WW-II (8)
 11. BOOKS/HYPO:The Big What If
 12. DISC u-boats, a new topic
 13. Home: US: Illinois at war (2)
 14. Homefront: All Nations, Production (3)
 15. TACT:COULD THEY HA
 16. Churchill's bad decisions (from Economic Causes of the
 17. Invasion of Crete -- Operation Merkur
 18. BIO:  Wingate
 19. TACT:Could they have won ? (3)
 20. The Italians (2)
 21. ITALY IN WW2, MY $
 22. "Dambusters" and German Electric Capacity
 23. Carlson's Raiders
 24. MEDIA: Bombs in Berlin (5)
 25. POL: MEDIA: Japanese-Americans gather
 26. Role of Unions during WW-II
 27. [INF] USAAF 11 OCT 44

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 02:48:00 UTC
From:    "Edward S. Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: HYPO: The "Big" what-

  Having been off the list a few days while traveling, I enjoyed catching
 up with the "could Hitler have won" debate.  Kudos to all for many
 imaginative and thoughtful posts.  Wish I could reply to all.  Here will
 only comment on a few of the grand themes that have livened up the debate.
  (1) It's hard to buy the "if he hadn't invaded Russia" thesis.  Gerhard
 Weinberg and others point out that Hitler's bedrock aim was agricultural
 lebensraum in the east, closely linked to genocidal racism since he
 intended to exterminate or enslave the inhabitants.  To imagine otherwise
 is to imagine a very different Hitler.  A fruitful line of inquiry is why
 Hitler was so obsessed with this 19th century Malthusian idea (long since
 discredited by modern nations) while at the same time so adept at 20th
 century uses of industry, science, propaganda, etc.
  (2) There is merit in the argument that WWII was a vast war of attrition
 in which Allied industrial muscle inevitably doomed the Axis.  However,
 this required also the will to fight to a finish.  Superior arms did not
 bring victory in Korea or VietNam.  Hitler's beastliness assured that the
 Allies would go all the way.
  (3) The 300-U-boats-in-1939 case is a good one.  Even 50 milch cow
 submarines, instead of the 12 deployed in 1942, has been demonstrated by
 operations research studies as a potentially huge force multiplier.  It is
 plausible to imagine England, in extremis, pushed to a negotiated truce,
 but I envision it sooner or later rejoining the war when the US was ready
 to enter.
  (4) The Axis-linkup-in-Indian-Ocean is only superficially attractive.
 A sweep of India by Japan is far fetched.  Japan did not have the
 logistical capacity for large scale ops in that Ocean.  Meanwhile Japan
 would be laid open to attack by the U.S. Navy.  A drive by the Nazis
 through the Caucasus to Suez and beyond has somewhat greater plausibility
but one wonders how they would ultimately have held such a long, exposed
salient against the Soviet armies and the maritime nations.  (The oil of the
Gulf had to move by sea.)  For Rommel to break through to the MidEast and
=hold= it poses the same problem.
  (5) What about the Hinges of Fate, key battles going the other way.  There
 is high drama in those exercises.  But if one believes that WWII was
 determined by irreconcilable political systems and industrial throw-weight,
 it is unpersuasive to propose one or three battles that truly would have
 changed the outcome.
  (6) Finally, any scenario in which Hitler achieves greater successes
 equivalent to "winning" brings us to August 1945 and the atomic bomb.
 America would certainly have pushed even harder for the bomb and (if
needed) long range delivery systems like the B-36.  There is low credibility
in imagining a triumphing Germany making an A-bomb by 1945 since it never
made the big effort under dire pressures of losing.

 Thanks to all for an entertaining evening on the road.
  Ed Miller  [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 04:00:14 PDT
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 10-10-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
10/10 Tue. Aircraft from fast carrier task force (Vice Adm. M.
           A. Mitscher) composed of 17 carriers, escorted by 5
           battleships, 14 cruisers, and 58 destroyers bomb
           Japanese shipping and shore facilities on Okinawa and
           other islands in the Ryukyus.
            Japanese naval vessels sunk, Ryukyu Islands area:
             Submarine tender JINGEI, by carrier-based aircraft,
              26 d. 39'N., 127 d. 52'E.
             Transport NO. 158, by carrier-based aircraft,
              26 d. 38'N., 127 d. 52'E.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 06:37:31 CDT
From:    Jesse Carnes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Churchill and his cigars

Curious about Churchill ;

this larger-than-life (tee-hee ... no pun intended) person was known not only
for his rapier wit, but his penchant for cigars and alcohol.

Granted.

Just a bit of trivia though :

Does anyone know what sort and brand of stogies he indulged?

Just curious.

Jesse Carnes
[email-masked]
LSU
B.R., LA

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 04:47:25 -0700
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 11-OCT-1944

On 11-OCT-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - Bardenburg is captured bu the US 30th Division. This opens the
way north towards Wurselen. At Aachen an ultimatum issued by the US 1st
Division to the Germans expires, and the Americans resume heavy air and
artillery bombardment.

Eastern Front - The 2nd Ukraine Front crosses the river Tisza on a wide front
at Szeged. To the east there is fighting at Debrecen and Cluj.

Italian Front - The Allied advance continues along the entire front. The
10th Indian Division and the British 46th Division continue to advance
towards the river Savio and Cesena, capturing the hills east of the river
Rubicon. The Canadian 1st Division widens the bridgehead across the
Rubicon and advance along Highway 9 as far as Rigossa. The New Zealand 2nd
Division establishes two bridgeheads over the Rubicon, north of Savignano.

Philippines - Aircraft from two US task forces attack Japanese airfields and
other installations in the south of Luzon.

The Homefront
-------------
Hit Parade - 1) I'll Walk Alone, 2) Is You Is Or Is You Ain't, 3) Dance With A
Dolly, 4) Swingin On A Star.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "Facts On File Yearbook 1944,
Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.netcom.com in directory /pub/jbd and can
be accessed via the WWW by URL: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/jbd/ww2.html. If you
have difficulty accessing the Netcom FTP server, please keep trying because it
stays very busy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis     [email-masked]
Cary, N.C.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 13:28:45 +0200
From:    "A.Bouis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN:Laconia

Drew Helevy's post makes me ask a question :

Are there any records of French, British or American personnel convicted for War crimes in WWII ?
Any convicted by Axis authorities, even as a pretext (the sole example that comes to my mind is that of Doolitle's captured crews) ?

Arnaud.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 07:43:58 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN:Laconia

Hello, Arnaud!

> Are there any records of French, British or American personnel convicted for War
>  crimes in WWII ?
> Any convicted by Axis authorities, even as a pretext (the sole example that come
> s to my mind is that of Doolitle's captured crews) ?

    That is all that comes to my mind.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 08:49:07 -0400
From:    Warren Thompson <[email-masked]>
Subject: German war crimes bureau

To Terry, Drew et al.: See the following title:

                Alfred M. de Zayas. THE WEHRMACHT WAR CRIMES BUREAU,
                        1939-1945. U of Neb Press, 1989.

Details later. Class coming up.

-- Warren Thompson

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:10:21 -0400
From:    Warren Thompson <[email-masked]>
Subject: HIST -- German war crimes tribunals

To Terry, Drew, Arnaud et al.: See the following title:

                Alfred M. de Zayas. THE WEHRMACHT WAR CRIMES BUREAU,
                        1939-1945. U of Neb Press, 1989.

This title deals with such items as Katyn, Soviet treatment of German POWs,
alleged Polish mistreatment of Wehrmacht personnel, alleged Allied crimes
against civilians, and so on. Worthwhile.

-- Warren Thompson

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 09:29:13 -0500
From:    Michael D Wallick <[email-masked]>
Subject: Media: The American Experience

On Tuesday, October 11, "The American Experience" on PBS begins its
seventh season with a two-part biography of Franklin Roosevelt.
Part 1 explores FDR's privileged background, his marriage to distant
cousin Eleanor, and his battle with polio at age 39.  On Wednesday,
October 12, part 2 includes a review of his presidency and his New
Deal policies.  David McCullough is the narrator.

Michael Wallick

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:47:04 CST
From:    "SCHERRER, TIM" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ref: Do I really want to buy a tank

Howdy there--I just returned from the WWII Historical Reenactment Societ
y National Battle at Hooper, NE--had a great time--I'll post more info
later about that.

As the title refers to--I am contemplating buying a WWII tank.  I have
found a relatively cheap source for a chassis and running gear for a
M-22 Locust.  The turret is gone, and much of the upper hull is gone as
well.  The vehicle runs and is used by a farmer as a heavy pull tractor
around the farm.  He is willing to part with it for a relatively cheap
price.

Since it is already basically a mess--I was thinking about buying it and
building it as a Panzer Mk II--probably a middle war model--not a Luchs!
The specifications are suprisingly similar in height, width, length and
weight.  The vehicle probably weighs around 4,000 lbs in it's present
configuration.

There are a zillion questions I have now about this--I know someone who
recently bought a chassis and hull and built a turret to restore it
as a M-22.  It is sometimes used by my reenactment unit as a fake MkII,
so I have access to some good advice about the vehicle--do's and don'ts.

My next step is feeling out the possibilities--it is about 600 miles awa
y now--so some sort of transport will have to be lined up--it doesn't
need a military HET to move it--probably could be moved in a U-Haul, or
by a contracted company in a trailer.  It fits in my garage according to
the specifications I've seen.  I know this will be a money pit, and will
require lots of time and outside help to get it up where it needs to be.
Also I know once it is completed getting it to and from events will be a
big expense.  Building propane maingun and MG simulators is not really
a problem.  Also, the running gear will never be close--the bogies are
never going to be close--but besides that they are pretty close at first
glance.

Anybody have any ideas???????  My plan from now is to get a videotape of
the vehicle and take a closer look at it.  If it appears promising then
take a trip to see it.  Have I lost my mind or is this an interesting
idea???

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 11:54:17 -0400
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Role of Unions dirung WW-II

Does anybody have any knowledge of the roles played by employee
unions during WW-II? Were there any major strikes/job actions taken,
or did the unions cooperate with management for the "overall good"?

Any questions/comments?

(I'm taking a class about contract negotiations, and the subject came up...)

                                                Steve

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - [email-masked] |"Life may be a drag BUT
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |  it sure beats the only
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |           known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 17:53:26 +0200
From:    "A.Bouis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: BOOKS/HYPO:The Big What If

Greg,

want to some big what if ? If you can read French, find "L'appel du 17 juin" (don't remember the author).
This novel rewrites the war just as you dreamt of it :
De Gaulle meets Petain in Bordeaux as the front collapses and the two proud men finally come to an agreement. France launches a defiant "the struggle continues" call and the Germans fight to the Riviera. Hitler tries to cross the Med but the Italians meet the combined anglo-british fleets in memorable battles. The French armies which could be extirpated gather in Algeria, and follows what you guess...well read the book :-)

Arnaud.

P.S. Oh well it must be out of print.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:14:42 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Role of Unions dirung WW-II

>Does anybody have any knowledge of the roles played by employee
>unions during WW-II? Were there any major strikes/job actions taken,
>or did the unions cooperate with management for the "overall good"?
>
>Any questions/comments?
>
>(I'm taking a class about contract negotiations, and the subject came up...)
>
>                                                Steve

It shouldn't be too difficult to come up with plenty of references to
unions in WWII. I know problems arose with John L. Lewis and the coal
miners and also the Porters railroad union.  Most books on Guadacanal also
talk about a labor union in Australia or New Zealand that refused to
unload/load the marine transports.

John Riegsecker                                 (206) 756-3566
Dept of Math and Computer Science               [email-masked]
University of Puget Sound

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 12:23:07 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: DISC u-boats, a new topic

Hello, Rob!

> Can anyone recall similar incidents in which American forces were forced
> nto the same box? (I imagine Herr Hartenstein's sense of guilt must have
> been tremendous- leaving al those folks swimming like he was forced to.)
>  Was the Admiral's indictment hypocritical?

    You might consider the Altmark affair in which a German vessel
was captured by the British within Norwegian territorial waters in
blatant violation of international maritime law. This vessel was
loaded with captured British personnel, as best my memory serves me.

Also, if you consider other incidents, the Atlantis or auxiliary
cruiser, one of 6 belonging to the Kriegsmarine, encountered similar
difficulties with the Allies in which, Captain Rogge, the CO of this
ship, had rescued many people after sinking their ship. In one
instance, not having enough room on board his ship, he allowed the
remainder of the survivors from one sinking, as I remember, to sail
to port after supplying them with maps, compasses, foodstuffs, etc,
as much as possible, before setting sail himself.

Also, regarding warships, the British were not able to save all the
survivors from the Bismarck sinking, as they were fearful of U-boats
known to be in the area. Many Germans drowned as a result of this.

Hope this helps.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 12:34:31 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: HIST -- German war crimes tribunals

Hello, Warren!

Thanks very much for that info. I have seen a copy of the book you
mention, but I was not able to acquire it. I have read substantial
portions of it, and it is an eye-opener. I would also second your
recommendation on it.

> This title deals with such items as Katyn, Soviet treatment of German POWs,
> alleged Polish mistreatment of Wehrmacht personnel, alleged Allied crimes
> against civilians, and so on. Worthwhile.

    Thanks, again.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 12:40:33 -0500
From:    Michael D Wallick <[email-masked]>
Subject: Home: US: Illinois at war

In the spring of 1942, Americans were being encouraged to plant
victory gardens as a solution to the anticipated shortage of fruits
and vegetables.  The transport of fresh produce was not a high priority.
Truck farmers were being drafted and Japanese-Americans who farmed on
the West Coast were being interned.  Due to the shortage of tin, the
canning of fruits and vegetables for civilian consumption was being
curtailed.

In Illinois, victory gardens numbered 750,000 in 1942; 1,151,000 in
1943; 1,275,000 in 1944; and 1,500,000 in 1945.  For 1942 alone, the
estimated market value of home grown produce was $52,000,000.

Source:
Bailey, Robert E. and Elaine Shemoney Evans.  ILLINOIS AT WAR, 1941-1945:
A SELECTION OF DOCUMENTS FROM THE ILLINOIS STATE ARCHIVES.  Springfield,
Ill.: Illinois State Archives, 1994.

Michael Wallick

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 13:42:40 EDT
From:    Cassady Craft <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Homefront: All Nations, Production

William, Both Olaf and George have valid points.  The US was a budding super-
power even before the war, but it still required a production miricle of sorts
to gear up.  Jack  could probably  give you the raw figures of aircraft
production for the US before the war in order to give perspective.
Even before Olaf suggested Kennedy's work, I was going to, just as a place
for you to look up more detailed sources.  I don't have my copy of _The Rise
and Fall of the Great Powers_ with me, or I would give them to you directly.

I think the presentation is a good idea.  Good luck on it and knock them dead.

Cassady Craft
Department of Political Science
University of Georgia
e-mail [email-masked]
or
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 12:49:59 -0500
From:    Michael D Wallick <[email-masked]>
Subject: Home: US: Illinois at war

On December 1, 1942, gasoline rationing was started in the Midwest.
Civilians were issued ration stamps which were of three grades A, B,
and C.  A stamps were given to people who had no priority.  B coupons
were issued to individuals who did essential driving to jobs in the
defense plants.  C stamps went to people who did more necessary driving
such as doctors.  A special X stamp, which was for unlimited gasoline,
was reserved for administrators of government agencies such as the Office
of Price Administration.

The OPA estimated that nationally five percent of the gasoline sold was
done illegally.  In Chicago, fraud was involved in about 35 percent of
gasoline sales.

Source:
Bailey, Robert E. and Elaine Shemoney Evans.  ILLINOIS AT WAR, 1941-1945:
A SELECTION OF DOCUMENTS FROM THE ILLINOIS STATE ARCHIVES.  Springfield,
Ill.: Illinois State Archives, 1994.

Michael Wallick

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 13:15:13 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TACT:COULD THEY HA

Hello, George!

> Some say we threw the victory of WWII away when we didn't allow Patton to
> take out the Soviet Union.

    That may be true, but I don't think the American public would
have countenanced an extension of the conflict, even if there were
those in the know who were thoroughly familiar with the situation. I
don't think Patton could have done it by himself. Do you?

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 13:20:04 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Role of Unions dirung WW-II

Hello, Steve!

I think there was a coal strike at some point early in the war, but I
am going from memory here. After that, I think it was unlawful to
strike.

        Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 13:28:27 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Churchill's bad decisions (from Economic Causes of the

Hello, Tim!

> How many bad decisions can you folks come up with that Winnie made?
> One that comes to my mind is send most of the military resources from
> North Africa in early 1941 to Greece; instead of probably taking all of
> North Africa before the Africa Corps could intervene, he made the
> political decision to prop up Greece, who was obviously going to be
> overrun by the Germans.

    A good case can certainly be made for his interfering in the
campaign in North Africa. The common denominator for the failure of
the Brits in North Africa up to Mongomery was his insistence on
and demanding an attack before the troops were ready.

 >
> Anyone think of other times when Churchill made decisions that were
> bad ideas?

    I have often thought that his approval of attacking "panacea"
targets was not wise. For example, the attack on the Moehne, Sorpe,
and Eder dams in 1942, took time and money to develop the bomb used
to cause the collapse of the dams, pulling experienced crews out of
ops to train for an operation that in the end had little significance
on the prosecution of the war, etc.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 13:36:40 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Invasion of Crete -- Operation Merkur

Hello, Emery!

I am going to post to you and others on the list the answer to your
question. One earlier post has already been sent and is accurate in a
general sense. I will try to be more specific with you. What I am
going to post to you is taken from pages 76-78 of Charles Whiting's
book "Hunters from the Sky".

Student threw in all the Luftwaffe planes that General von Richthofen
could give him. Ceaselessly, they hit the new line, especially that
stretch of it around Galatos, which they had failed to take on the
24th.

Brigadier Kippenberger recalls the day: About 4:00  a dozen Stukas
dive-bombed Galatos. We had no anti-aircraft defences and they must
have enjoyed it. My headquarters had one or two near misses. At this
stage, I was standing on a table looking through a window that gave a
view over the line from the village to the sea and every few minutes,
I had to stand aside to avoid being seen by one of the planes
continuously cruising over the treetops shooting at everything in
sight.

But the Brigadier realized that his defenses were slowly crumbling
under the relentless aerial bombardment and whenever the planes let
up the German artillery and mortar shelling started again, followed
by an infantry attack.

Emery, I will send some more to you tomorrow.

Hope this has been of interest.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 14:33:20 -0400
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Role of Unions dirung WW-II

Terry Moore responds;

>I think there was a coal strike at some point early in the war, but I
>am going from memory here. After that, I think it was unlawful to
>strike.

Was there a law passed denying the right to strike???

Aside from the coal strike which I would like to hear more about,
I would be most interested in hearing about this law, when it was
repealled, etc.

Of course, any anecdotes would be appreciated, such as the impact of
all those "Rosie"s on unions...

Thanx                                                   Steve

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - [email-masked] |"Life may be a drag BUT
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |  it sure beats the only
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |           known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 13:48:25 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: BIO:  Wingate

Hello, Cassady!

Here goes with a bio on Charles Orde Wingate.

                   Charles Orde Wingate
                      (1903-1944)

British major-general called the "Napoleon of guerilla warfare". As a
major, he organized Ethiopian partisans to harass the Italians from
1940-1941. Wingate later commanded a British airborne commando force
known as the "Chindits". He was killed on 24 May 1944 in a plane
crash in the Burma jungle.

    This is a cut-and-dried bio of Wingate. If anyone is interested,
I can post additional details on this man. Please advise.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 13:57:16 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TACT:Could they have won ?

Hello, Ron!

I might add one thing, that Goebbels points out in his diary. If
Hitler had had a well-defined Eastern policy, namely, a policy of
granting the Ukraine and other Russian states autonomy upon
liberation, he (Hitler) would not have had to send one additional
German soldier to Russia to rid the country of communist domination.
If Hitler had not insisted on treatment of the local Russian
population as "subhumans", so many of those people would have taken
up arms against the Reds that the Germans would not have known what
to do with them. At the time of the Russian invasion, the Germans
were welcomed with bread and salt, the traditional welcome of the
Ukrainians and were treated as liberators. This was a grave mistake
on the part of the Germans not to have taken advantage of that. The
Russians themselves had had enough of Comrade Stalin's brand of
government.

I do believe that Germany could have won WWII, if the US had stayed
out of it and Hitler had not encouraged, if not demanded that his
forces adopt the harsh attitude of an occupier rather than that of
the liberator.

    Thanks for allowing me to add my two cents' worth to this.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 14:04:03 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Homefront: All Nations, Production

Hello, Jack!

Those statistics are incredible. Thanks for that post.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 14:08:57 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Role of Unions dirung WW-II

Hello, Steve!

Thanks for the note.

I will try to locate what I can for you on this. Again, I am going
from memory on this, but I know that there was some domestic trouble
on this, and will look into it.

More later.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 15:40:12 -0400
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Role of Unions dirung WW-II

>Hello, Steve!

>Thanks for the note.

>I will try to locate what I can for you on this. Again, I am going
>from memory on this, but I know that there was some domestic trouble
>on this, and will look into it.

>More later.

>Terry

Thanx muchly Terry. I've been much impressed by what you have to say...

I'm just now disecting the Metal Trades Council contract with Electric Boat,
which built many submarines during and after the war.

Union contracts may not be really exciting, but they sure beat accounting!:-)

Thanx again, sir.
                                                                Steve
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - [email-masked] |"Life may be a drag BUT
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |  it sure beats the only
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |           known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 14:44:45 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The Italians

Hello, Tim!

I have checked a couple of sources and I can find nothing to
substantiate your claim. However, Mussolini was terribly concerned
with numbers and it would not have been above him to do as you
suggest. Although I can't find anything to support your claim, it
would have been a logical outcome for him to have taken every third
regiment out of several divisions to form one or more divisions and
replace those with more political types such as the Blackshirts.

    Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

    Terry

> I'm without a source, so maybe Joe, Terry or Mike or someone else with
> access to a source (or a better memory than mine) can confirm this.
> TIA
> Tim J. Watts
> Valparaiso University
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 14:48:48 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ITALY IN WW2, MY $

Hello, Ben!

Thank you very much for your response to my question. It may have
been like comparing apples with oranges. However, the one common
denominator to all these elite units is the absolute necessity on
rigid discipline and commitment to duty that is above and beyond the
normal requirement. At least that is the way I see it.

Thank you again for your response, Ben.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 15:11:29 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Role of Unions dirung WW-II

Hello, Steve!

> Thanx muchly Terry. I've been much impressed by what you have to say...

    You are very kind, but we are all here to learn and help others.

> I'm just now disecting the Metal Trades Council contract with Electric Boat,
> which built many submarines during and after the war.
>
    Sounds interesting.

> Union contracts may not be really exciting, but they sure beat accounting!:-)

    You would know that better than I. It seems to me that both would
be terribly pedantic work.

> Thanx again, sir.

    You are very welcome, and will get back to you.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 16:23:07 -0500
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Role of Unions dirung WW-II

Steve-- may not be exactly what you're looking for, but I recall reading in
William Manchester's "Goodbye Darkness" a passage about striking dockworkers
in Australia during the war (and the resentment Marines and GI's felt about
that).  I also ditto Terry on recalling some major US coal strikes during
the war but don't have any sources.

Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 15:27:49 -0700
From:    John Holtz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Homefront: All Nations, Production

I hope my memory serves but didn't John Ellis (?) _Brute Force_ go into
this in great detail?  His whole thesis is that the Axis were hopelessly
outmatched in terms of actual, potential, and realized raw material
exploitation and finished goods production.

Quite a few comparative tables and charts AND an extensive bibliography
to a wide range of primary and secondary studies.

jwh

--
John W. Holtz, Asst. Professor       INTERNET: [email-masked]
Sangamon State University Library       PHONE: (217) 786-6633
Springfield, IL  62794-9243               FAX: (217) 786-6208

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 15:35:33 -0700
From:    John Holtz <[email-masked]>
Subject: "Dambusters" and German Electric Capacity

> > Anyone think of other times when Churchill made decisions that were
> > bad ideas?
>
>     I have often thought that his approval of attacking "panacea"
> targets was not wise. For example, the attack on the Moehne, Sorpe,
> and Eder dams in 1942, took time and money to develop the bomb used
> to cause the collapse of the dams, pulling experienced crews out of
> ops to train for an operation that in the end had little significance
> on the prosecution of the war, etc.
>
>     Hope this helps.
>
>     Terry
>
Greetings:

I believe several German experts (Speer among them) pointed out hhow
devastating this raid COULD have been if done in conjunction with heavy,
coordinated raids on the other electrical production facilities (coal
burning power stations).  In fact, a conventional campaign smashing the
electronic transmission stations at the dams and the other power
generation plants might also have done the trick.  Does the U.S.
Strategic Bombing Survey address this point?  The Luftwaffe thought of
initiating just such a campaign against the USSR in 1943 but tactical
demands were just too great.

jwh

--
John W. Holtz, Asst. Professor       INTERNET: [email-masked]
Sangamon State University Library       PHONE: (217) 786-6633
Springfield, IL  62794-9243               FAX: (217) 786-6208

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 16:33:55 -0500
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The Italians

Per my earlier post, the Italians definitely did reduce the number of
infantry regiments in each division from 3 to 2 during the mid-thirties.
As Terry's post mentions, the concept of introducing the so-called
"Blackshirt Legion" in each division, a program never fully carried out,
was to compensate for this reduction (the Blackshirt Legion would have
been equivalent to two battalions, but since the second battalion in
most legions consisted of much older members of the local MVSN it was
hardly ever actually mobilized for field operations).  Sources mentioning
this, off the top of my head, include Sweet's "Iron Arm," A. Mollo's
"Armed Forces of World War 2" and the Time-Life book "Italy At War"
(edited by Richard Collier, I believe).

Regards

Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 15:42:15 -0700
From:    John Holtz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TACT:Could they have won ?

Hello Terry (et.al.):

> I do believe that Germany could have won WWII, if the US had stayed
> out of it and Hitler had not encouraged, if not demanded that his
> forces adopt the harsh attitude of an occupier rather than that of
> the liberator.
>
>     Thanks for allowing me to add my two cents' worth to this.
>
>     Terry

Except, this treatment was fundamental to Hitler, a sine qua non of who
and what he was.  Now, without Hitler, no Nazis, no racist internal and
foreign policy, no WW2.  Germany would not have initiated the programs
that led to WW2 without Hitler's peculiar/particular predelictions.

Remove Hitler from the equation and the entire sequence of events alters
radically.    Despite the importance of broad social and economic
factors, the role of the individual is no where better evidenced.

jwh

--
John W. Holtz, Asst. Professor       INTERNET: [email-masked]
Sangamon State University Library       PHONE: (217) 786-6633
Springfield, IL  62794-9243               FAX: (217) 786-6208

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 16:19:36 -0500
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Carlson's Raiders

Does anyone know if Carlson or any of the other observers of the Chinese
Communists were persecuted or criticized during the Cold War for their
obvious admiration of Mao and his tactics?
Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 16:00:50 -0500
From:    Oliver Bonham-Carter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Bombs in Berlin

        As you all know, several WWII bombs exploded in Berlin while workers
were digging down under a building.

        Does anyone know how these bombs came to be in Berlin and were never
shot off (after all this time)? Were they laid there as the British and
Americans came thru and were mal-functioning? Someone must know where
they were located because I'm sure there was a plan of areas to bomb. And
finally, is there any chance of an international problem because of the
bombs? Would the Germans expect some kind of compensation for the
families of the workers?

Anyone?

[email-masked]
 "This is it... so read it!"

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:36:46 EDT
From:    William Lippert <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TACT:Could they have won ?

On Mon, 10 Oct 1994 15:42:15 -0700 John Holtz said:
>Hello Terry (et.al.):
>
>> I do believe that Germany could have won WWII, if the US had stayed
>> out of it and Hitler had not encouraged, if not demanded that his
>> forces adopt the harsh attitude of an occupier rather than that of
>> the liberator.
>>
>>     Thanks for allowing me to add my two cents' worth to this.
>>
>>     Terry
>
>Except, this treatment was fundamental to Hitler, a sine qua non of who
>and what he was.  Now, without Hitler, no Nazis, no racist internal and
>foreign policy, no WW2.  Germany would not have initiated the programs
>that led to WW2 without Hitler's peculiar/particular predelictions.
>
>Remove Hitler from the equation and the entire sequence of events alters
>radically.    Despite the importance of broad social and economic
>factors, the role of the individual is no where better evidenced.
>
>jwh
>
>--
>John W. Holtz, Asst. Professor       INTERNET: [email-masked]
>Sangamon State University Library       PHONE: (217) 786-6633
>Springfield, IL  62794-9243               FAX: (217) 786-6208

I remember reading a little section in one of my books - I think it was
about Heydrich - that he had pushed the very same point - that the people
should be helped.  But the author wrote that Hitler felt this was kind of
immoral and improper to lead the people of the East on like that.  It was
low because he did plan on turning them into slaves sooner or later.  Go
figure - a Hitler with a conscience.  And yet I would say that his makes
a certain sense.  Hitler lied many times, but not all the times.  For
example, it might have been to his advantage not to have raved against the
Americans and hold Roosevelt in such contempt back in the late 30's. But
he did and would stick to his guns on how he felt about people.  In fact,
the only times I can really think of him lying was about his conquests and
peace.  He never said he wouldn't persecute the Jews, seek Lebensraum in the
East, etc.  One would almost say he had a certain amount of integrity - he
didn't flip-flop on issues like many other world leaders (no names mentioned).
I'm probably asking for a lot of trouble in this area and I might be wrong,
but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

William Lippert
The American University

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:52:29 EDT
From:    Henry Sirotin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN:Laconia

Wasn't there a US Navy sub commander court martialed for sinking a clearly
marked Japanese transport sailing under a safe passage agreement in 1944?
The safe passage was agreed to because the ship carried PoWs.

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:43:18 EDT
From:    William Lippert <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Bombs in Berlin

      I don't know about compensation or anything to that effect but I do
know that in Europe the place is littered with unexploded munitions and
mines.  As a general rule, munitions from all nations malfunctioned fairly
frequently.  For example, in the raid on Pearl Harbor $500,000 of damage
was done to Honolulu from US malfunctioned and misused anti-aircraft weapons.
I read that in Nam some 50 percent of all grenades were destroyed due to
problems.
    I also read that in Europe some 5000 or so people die a year from WWII
munitions.  Anyone have any idea to the validity to this claim?  That should
answer some of the questions.

William Lippert
The American University

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 19:19:52 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ref: Do I really want to buy a tank

"You'll be working on that tank for the rest of your life." -Al ;-)

-Al

Every program in development at URI expands until it can read mail. ;-)

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:26:05 -0500
From:    Drew Halevy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Bombs in Berlin

Drew  Philip Halevy      |      If we are marked to die, we are enow
Department of History    |      To do our country loss; and if to live,
University of Arkansas   |      The fewer the men, the greater
[email-masked]    |      share of honor. -Henry V Act IV Scene III

On Mon, 10 Oct 1994, William Lippert wrote:

>     I also read that in Europe some 5000 or so people die a year from WWII
> munitions.  Anyone have any idea to the validity to this claim?  That should
> answer some of the questions.

I remember watching a program on PBS or Discovery of a UBX team in
Belgium (Holland?) that goes around today digging up rounds from WWI and
WWII. A very interesting program.-Drew

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 19:27:24 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: POL: MEDIA: Japanese-Americans gather

Compiled from wire reports,...

Seabrook, NJ - More than 650 current and former residents from around the
country gathered there yesterday for a 2 day celebration on the 50th anniv.
of the migration to Seabrook from US internment camps by more than 2500
Japanese-Americans. Many who settled here in 1944 and 1945 were uprooted
from their homes at the beginning of the war with Japan.

-Al

Every program in development at URI expands until it can read mail. ;-)

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 16:41:20 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN:Laconia

Henry Sirotin said:

>Wasn't there a US Navy sub commander court martialed for sinking a clearly
>marked Japanese transport sailing under a safe passage agreement in 1944?
>The safe passage was agreed to because the ship carried PoWs.
>
>Henry Sirotin

I'm not sure if he was technically court martialed, but he was given a
stiff reprimand.  I don't know if it was supposed to be carring POWs or
medicinal supplies.  As it turned out, she was loaded with contraband.  The
details are in a reference I have at home.  If nobody answers by tomorrow
morning I'll post it.

One postscript is that the commander of the sub made Flag rank.  This
astonished many people because they thought his carreer was finished by the
severity of his reprimand.

John Riegsecker                                 (206) 756-3566
Dept of Math and Computer Science               [email-masked]
University of Puget Sound

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:09:46 -0500
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Role of Unions during WW-II

Steve-
No sources, sorry, but wasn't there something in the last month in the 50
Year ago posting about a transport worker strike in Sept. 1944 in
Philadelphia?  I thought I remembered something about military personnel
being ordered to replace the essential workers to make sure defense
workers could get to their jobs.
Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:09:05 -0500
From:    Drew Halevy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN:Laconia

How was the safe passage agreement arranged?-Drew

Drew  Philip Halevy      |      If we are marked to die, we are enow
Department of History    |      To do our country loss; and if to live,
University of Arkansas   |      The fewer the men, the greater
[email-masked]    |      share of honor. -Henry V Act IV Scene III

On Mon, 10 Oct 1994, Henry Sirotin wrote:

> Wasn't there a US Navy sub commander court martialed for sinking a clearly
> marked Japanese transport sailing under a safe passage agreement in 1944?
> The safe passage was agreed to because the ship carried PoWs.
>
> Henry Sirotin
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 20:07:19 -0400
From:    David Rising <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Bombs in Berlin

On Mon, 10 Oct 1994, Drew Halevy wrote:
>
> >     I also read that in Europe some 5000 or so people die a year from WWII
> > munitions.  Anyone have any idea to the validity to this claim?  That should
> > answer some of the questions.
>
> I remember watching a program on PBS or Discovery of a UBX team in
> Belgium (Holland?) that goes around today digging up rounds from WWI and
> WWII. A very interesting program.-Drew

I believe if y'all would backtrack on this list about 6mths, you'll find
a lot of very interesting info on this topic. You may ask Joe what it was
flagged (I think it started as a discussion on mines). Cheers,
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 17:26:59 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Bombs in Berlin

>On Mon, 10 Oct 1994, Drew Halevy wrote:
>>
>> >     I also read that in Europe some 5000 or so people die a year from WWII
>> > munitions.  Anyone have any idea to the validity to this claim?  That
>>should
>> > answer some of the questions.
>>
>> I remember watching a program on PBS or Discovery of a UBX team in
>> Belgium (Holland?) that goes around today digging up rounds from WWI and
>> WWII. A very interesting program.-Drew
>
>I believe if y'all would backtrack on this list about 6mths, you'll find
>a lot of very interesting info on this topic. You may ask Joe what it was
>flagged (I think it started as a discussion on mines). Cheers,
>David Rising

This is the third time on the list.  Perhaps it belongs in the FAQ.
Anyhow, here is what I posted then.  Maybe it will get you started.

In Smithsonian (Feb 1994) by Donovan Webster from his book Aftermath:
Cleaning up a Century of World War to be published by Pantheon.

Here are some of the things he has to say.

16 million acres above Verdun off limits.

An estimated 12 million unexploded shells remain from WWI

630 demineurs have been killed since 1946.

Since 1946 they have destroyed:

18 million artillary shells
10 million grenades
600,000 aerial bombs
600,000 underwater mines

36 farmers were killed in 1991

There are currently 123 demineurs working full time

John Riegsecker                                 (206) 756-3566
Dept of Math and Computer Science               [email-masked]
University of Puget Sound

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Oct 1994 20:59:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 11 OCT 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
WEDNESDAY, 11 OCTOBER 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  F-6, North American Mustang
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): In the Kurile Islands, 4 B-25s over Shimushiru
and Paramushiru Islands blow up 3 buildings and damage 2 others at Cape
Namikawa.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 15 P-47s hit guns and enemy
positions near Pinhe while 9 attack the town of Manwein and hit targets of
opportunity in the area; 8 others hit the towns of Nayakaung and Nansiaung; 8
B-25s attack bridges at Man Pwe, Tahpalai, and Namyao damaging only the Man
Pwe bridge; 23 P-47s hit troops and stores near Tawbon and at Hkawan, knock
out Kawnghka bridge and damage the Wanling bridge. Transport flights continue
to points throughout the CBI. The detachment of the 4th Combat Cargo
Squadron, 1st Combat Cargo Group, operating from Yunnani, China returns to
base at Sylhet, India with C-47s.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 2 B-25s knock out a bridge S of
Mangshih; 3 P-40s attack sampans from Tanchuk to Tengyun while 8 hit general
targets of opportunity N of Mangshih.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
  Mission 672: 135 B-17s are dispatched to bomb the Wesseling synthetic oil
plant (57); 73 others hit the secondary, the Koblenz marshalling yard; 4
B-17s are lost and 61 damaged; 3 airmen are KIA, 6 WIA and 38 MIA. Escort is
provided by 135 of 139 P-47s; 1 P-47 is lost.
  Mission 673: 9 aircraft drop leaflets in France, the Netherlands and
Germany during the night.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In France, 99 B-26s and A-20s, with
fighter escort, sent to bomb the Camp-de-Bitche military camp are recalled
when Pathfinder equipment malfunctions and weather prevents visual bombing.
In Germany, fighters fly armed reconnaissance, cut rail lines in the Aachen-
Rhine area, and support the US VII and XIX Corps in the Aachen area, and US
XII, XV, and XX Corps in the Metz-Saarlautern area. In Luxembourg, the 160th
Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron, 363d Tactical Reconnaissance Group, moves
from Montrevil, France to Sandweiler with F-6s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Austria, about 180 B-17s and
B-24s, with fighter escort, bomb Vienna S ordnance depot, Graz motor works, S
and SW areas of Vienna, the towns of Hirtenberg and Enzesfeld, the
marshalling yard at Zeltweg, the Dravograd, Yugoslavia railroad bridge on the
Yugoslav-Hungarian boundary, and in Italy, railroad and highway bridges at
Cesara, and Trieste harbor; 250+ heavy bombers fail to complete missions
because of bad weather; 18 P-51s strafe targets in the Bratislava,
Czechoslovakia and Budapest, Hungary areas, including supply dumps, and
trains and destroy 17 airplanes at Esztergom landing ground, Hungary; 37
other P-51s strafe Prostejov Airfield, Czechoslovakia and targets of
opportunity in the surrounding area, destroying nearly 30 aircraft and
trucks, locomotives, and railroad cars. HQ 5th Photographic Reconnaissance
Group moves from San Severo to Bari, Italy.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, despite bad weather
medium bombers attack bridges and supply dumps in the Po Valley; fighter-
bombers and fighters closely support ground forces in the Apennine Mountains
between Florence and Bologna where fierce fighting rages on Monte delle
Formiche, Livergnano escarpment, Monte delle Tombe, Gesso ridge, and Monte
Battaglia; also hit are communications behind the battle area and as far W
and N as Genoa, Turin, and Savona; the detachments of the 16th and 35th Troop
Carrier Squadrons, 64th Troop Carrier Group, operating from Istres, France
returns to base at Ciampino with C-47s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): Saipan Island-based P-47s hit buildings on
Pagan Island with rockets and bombs. A Kwajalein Atoll-based B-24 bombs Wake
Island during the night.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s bomb the
Koeandang and Langoan area on Celebes Island. P-38s pound Miti Airfield on
Halmahera Island. A-20s and fighter-bombers attack airfields at Liang on
Ambon Island, Kairatoe on Celebes Island, Laha on Ambon Island, Haroekoe on
Haroekoe Island, and Namlea on Buru Island. In New Guinea, Langgoer Airfield
is bombed by P-47s and P-47s hit Babo Airfield while A-20s attack Sarmi troop
concentrations. At night B-24s bomb Sasa Matina and Buayoan Airfield on
Mindanao Island, Philippine Islands

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

11/0102Z OCT

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 9 Oct 1994 to 10 Oct 1994
************************************************