Subject: WWII-L Digest - 26 Oct 1994 to 27 Oct 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 00:01:37 -0400

There are 39 messages totalling 1462 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. LVTS
  2. WWII Memoirs (4)
  3. INF: USN Chronology 10-27-94
  4. INF: 50 Years Ago - 28-OCT-1944
  5. ME163 (6)
  6. Re[2]: WWII Memoirs (4)
  7. Tactics:the quality of arms and armies
  8. Untold Stories f/ABTF, Pt. 12
  9. HYPO: The "Big" what-
 10. More on WvB
 11. INF: New Rommel Book
 12. NOST/GEN:  weddings
 13. WEAP:  CVE-21  USS Block Island
 14. WEAP: CVE-23  USS Breton
 15. Polish vehicles
 16. Eighth Air Force 93rd (3)
 17. Homefront: US: Hollywood during WWII
 18. [WEAP] Battleships sunk by torpedos/gunfire (2)
 19. detached tank turrets - info needed
 20. German POWs in the US
 21. WEAP: Long Lance torpedo-
 22. Eight Air Force 93rd Bomber Group (Heavy)
 23. [INF] USAAF 28 OCT 44
 24. B-25 'kills'
 25. RE[2]: WWII MEMOIRS

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 00:57:56 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: LVTS

Hi, Tim. I had a chance to look at the photo of the LVTs heading in to the
beaches at Okinawa and those are sandbags piled on each amtrac, and they had
75mm howitzers in the turrets. They fired as they went into the beaches and
also provided the infantry units with fire support on the front lines. Also,
when the Japanese tried to land behind American lines on each coast, the
amtracs in the III Amphibious Corps zone   on beach defense just for that
purpose really raised havoc with the invaders.
Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 16:23:43 +1000
From:    John Foster <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII Memoirs

Hi Terry, you wrote....
>Does anyone have ideas for other personal narratives that I
>might consider using?

Why not at least get them to interview a family member or family friend who was
a vet. It doesn't have to be much or even directly applicable but the
experience sure teaches you a lot about the various aspects and pros and cons of using oral
histories as a unique primary source. I think most countries have a government
backed programme of some sort underway and it may be possible to get something
from them. I know there are members on this list who are involved and I am sure
they can give you some directions.
 regards
  John
[email-masked] .edu.au

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 01:59:51 PDT
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 10-27-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
10/27 Fri. Aircraft from two carrier task groups (Rear Adm. F.
           C. Sherman and Rear Adm. R. E. Davison) attack enemy
           ships and installations in the Visayas and northern
           Luzon area, P. I.
           Submarine NAUTILUS (SS-168) lands men and supplies on
           east coast of Luzon, P. I.
            United States naval vessels damaged, Leyte area, P.
             I.:
             Battleship CALIFORNIA (BB-44), by strafing,
              16 d. 57'N., 125 d. 02'E.
             Submarine chaser PCER-848, by horizontal bomber,
              11 d. 11'N., 125 d. 05'E.
             PT-523, by dive bomber,
              11 d. 15'N., 124 d. 59'E.
            Japanese naval vessels sunk:
             Destroyers FUJINAMI and SHIRANUI, by carrier-based
              aircraft Luzon area, P. I.,
              12 d. 00'N., 122 d. 30'E.
             Transport No. 138, by submarine KINGFISH (SS-234),
              Volcano Islands area,
              25 d. 22'N., 141 d. 31'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: Larry Jewell <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 04:54:40 -0700
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 28-OCT-1944

On 28-OCT-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The US 104th Division (British I Corps) captures Rijsbergen.
The US 7th Armoured Divison attempts to retake Meijel, lost the previous day
to a German counter-attack.

Eastern Front - Tito's partisans capture Split, chief town of Dalmatia.

Philippines - In the US X Corps sector, heavy fighting is taking place at
Carigara, on the north coast of the island. Slow progress is taking place in
the Leyte Valley. In the XXIV Corps sector, the 382nd Regiment of the 96th
Division takes Tabontabon and pushes on towards Kiling. In the Dagami area,
the 17th Infantry is advancing slowly and suffering heavy losses.

Pacific- Air attacks continue in the central Philippines, off Cebu, from
Rear-Admiral Davison's task group. Two Japanese submarines are sunk. The
light cruiser Denver is damaged in a kamikaze attack.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "Facts On File Yearbook 1944,
Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.netcom.com in directory /pub/jbd and can
be accessed via the WWW by URL: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/jbd/ww2.html. If you
have difficulty accessing the Netcom FTP server, please keep trying because it
stays very busy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis     [email-masked]
Cary, N.C.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 07:31:33 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ME163

Hello, Drew!

Here goes with some more titles on WWII overall:

  The War by Louis L. Snyder
  World War II by James Jones (anecdotal history and very well done)
  This was Your War edited by Frank Brookhauser
  Picture History of World War Two by Grosset and Dunlap (large
                                                 format)

                         Battle of Britain

Reach for the Sky by Paul Brickhill
Strike from the Sky by Alexander McKee (excellent)
Night Fighter by Wing-Commander J.R.D. Braham
Gunner's Moon by John Buckley
Fighter Pilot by Paul Richey
Eagle Day by Richard Collier
Wing Leader by Air-Vice Marshal J.E. "Johnny" Johnson
Night Fighter by C. F. Raunsley and Robert Wright
The Aces Talk by Edward H. Sims
The Greatest Aces by Edward Sims
Full Circle by J. E. Johnson
The Big Show by Pierre Clostermann
The War in the Air (The RAF in WWII) by Gavin Lyall
Battle of Britain by Leonard Moseley
Their Finest Hour by Winston Churchill
The Battle of Britain by Basil Collier
The Battle of Britain by Marcel Julian
Falling Through Space by Richard Hillary
The Valiant Years by Winston Churchill
A London Diary by Quentin Reynolds
Their Finest Hour by Edward Bishop

That is it for today. More tomorrow and hope this has been of
interest and assistance.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 07:39:40 -0500
From:    Terrance Lewis <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII Memoirs

On Thu, 27 Oct 1994, John Foster wrote:
>
> Why not at least get them to interview a family member or family friend who was
> a vet.
(edited)
>   John
> [email-masked] .edu.au
>

Certainly a fine idea, if possible, but even after 50 years, some vets
prefer *not* to talk about their experiences.  My father has told me
about his views of Pearl Harbor, working in a defense plant, basic
training, shipping out to and back from Britain...but that's all.  Over
the years, I've learned enough to know why he refuses to talk, why he
prefers to try and forget what he saw and what he had to do, and why I'll
never ask for the details.

"T"

   -*-+****************************************************+-*-
   < [email-masked]   [email-masked] >
   <   Terrance L. Lewis, History Program, Social Sciences    >
   <            Southern University at New Orleans            >
   -*-+****************************************************+-*-

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 08:44:16 -0400
From:    Ron Babuka <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ME163

>This was combined with an unhappy choice of landing gear: the
>Me 163 took off on jettisonable wheels --- they could bounce back to the
>aircraft if jettisoned incorrectly! --- and landed on a retractable skid.

The wheels had to be jettisoned at exactly 15 feet - any higher and the
pilot risked the wheels bouncing back into the aircraft.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka
Cornell University
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 07:52:06 CST
From:    "SCHERRER, TIM" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: WWII Memoirs

What about _The Forgotten Soldier_ by Guy Sajer--German soldier in
Grossduetschland Division--or maybe Charles B. MacDonald's _Company
Commander_.

TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 08:19:07 -0500
From:    Drew Halevy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Tactics:the quality of arms and armies

I am going to dive in, (and will most likely get in over my head). When
looking at the quality of the German army vs. [fill in the blank] I think
that we have to look at the nature of the army in the interwar period.
>From my thin understanding of the inter-war German army, I got the
impression that it was limited to 100,000 men as a purely defensive army.
I also understand that the general(s) who ran the German army (i don't
know names) were able to turn in into a very effective core that would
later be used to create a larger and well trained army. Given this, we
then look at the American army in the inter-war period, and see that it
had little to compare to the German inter-war army. When the US meet the
Germans for the first time at Kassarine (sp ?) we are looking a
professionally trained army (German) with a few years of combat under its
belt, vs an army (American) that was just getting off the ground in terms
of logistics, training and leadership. I hope this makes some sense, but
remember, it is only 8:30 am.-Drew

Drew  Philip Halevy      |  Forward he cried, from the rear,
Graduate Student         |  and the front ranks died.
Department of History    |  General sat, and the lines on the map,
University of Arkansas   |  moved from side to side.
[email-masked]    |  Us and Them-Pink Floyd

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 10:06:23 -0400
From:    Ron Babuka <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: WWII Memoirs

>What about _The Forgotten Soldier_ by Guy Sajer--German soldier in
>Grossduetschland Division--or maybe Charles B. MacDonald's _Company
>Commander_.
>

Is it true that Charles MacDonald's Company Commander is part of the
syllabus in several of the classes at West Point?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka
Cornell University
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 15:16:09 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ME163

T-stoff (hydrogen peroxide) tanks were behind and below the pilot.
C-stoff (hydrazine hydrate) tanks were in the wings and wing leading
edges. Tankage took up most of the volume of the Me 163; there was some
room left for the rocket engine in the tail, 30mm cannon in the wing
roots, and an equipment bay in the nose.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 10:43:12 EDT
From:    Doug McCabe <[email-masked]>
Subject: Untold Stories f/ABTF, Pt. 12

                   Ohio University Electronic Communication

   Date:  19-Oct-1994 01:59pm EST

     To:  Remote Addressee                     ( _MX%"[email-masked]" )

   From:  Doug McCabe                                Dept:  Library
          MCCABE                                   Tel No:  (614) 593-2715

Subject:  Untold Stories f/ABTF, Pt. 12

    [The 82nd AB, like the other two AB divisions, was also assigned
    bridges to capture in the MARKET phase so the GARDEN British ground
    troops could run up the corridor to Arnhem.  Gavin's first problem,
    though, was to seal off the Groesbeek Heights for they commanded the
    only high ground in the area and they blocked the Reichswald just
    across the border where it was thought the Germans could mount powerful
    counter-attacks.  Most of the 82nd landed very near the little town of
    Groesbeek, liberating it and the nearby countryside.  Thus it was
    natural that a museum was erected on the edge of the town and dedicated
    to the liberators, especially the 82nd AB.  We set up a small display
    from the Ryan Collection there in commemoration of the 50th anniversary
    of the battle.  Here is the first set of stories from that exhibit:]

    WHAT IT'S LIKE PILOTING A GLIDER

         "Even on a single tow (and even more so on a double tow) the sheer
    physical effort of keeping the glider in a position where it will fly
    out of the tug plane's slip stream and in a position that won't drag
    the tug's tail up, daow or to one side is quite a difficult task.
         It requires a steady physical pressure (of some considerable
    foot-pounds) to keep the glider in level flight and to counteract the
    tendency of the towrope to drag the glider back into a position
    directly behind the towplane.  The glider pilot can't relax and permit
    that, of course, because the slip stream buffering would soon shake the
    glider control surfaces to pieces.  Buffeting on tow is a nerve
    _and_spine_ shattering experience.  Remember that the gilder has a
    large airfoil compared to its bulk and is _extremely_ responsive to
    buffeting, air pockets (what you call bumps) and turbulance.
         Hence the need for a co-pilot on a military glider.  He is not
    there so much to be sure one man is alive to bring the glider in after
    the low-level penetration of enemy anti-air defenses and land into the
    teeth of enemy small arms and machine weapons fire, so much as he is to
    spell the other pilot and to insure that in sheer physical endurance
    terms that the glider can get to its landing zone.  Flying a troop
    carrying glider for 3 or 4 hours, in physical terms alone, I would
    liken to running the distance races (10,000 meters?) in the Olympics.
         On this mission to Holland, many gliders had no co-pilot.  (Of
    course, as usual, we had no parachutes.)  This was a very long hop.
    The take-off, marshaling into the air column, flight out over the
    Channel and into Holland took about three and one-half hours air time.
    The reason many of us were forced to fly without a co-pilot was the
    tremendous size of the initial effort.  There just weren't enough
    glider pilots to go around.
         I was quite alone - no co-pilot and no airborne troopers.  My
    glider was overloaded by alomst a ton.  A complete field communications
    unit jeep was mounted behind the cockpit, strapped to the ring bolts in
    the plywood cargo compartment.  I remember thinking when I saw the
    damned load, 'This is going to be a bitch to hold in the air.  The load
    will have me in a semi-stall, floundering on the end of the tow.  It'll
    be a real feat to keep the wings level, and I'll land like a rock at
    90+ miles per hour.  Can I really wrestle with this for the long hours
    in the air without collapsing in route from exhaustion?'
         By the time we crossed the coast and saw the flooded areas below,
    I was already pooped.  Every muscle ached from keeping that lumbering
    SOB glider in position.  The train of tugs and gliders streached out
    ahead for miles and off into infinity.  The air was very turbulent from
    their passage and flying was like a wrestling match with the control
    wheel and pedals.  I was sopping wet from the effort.  But of course, I
    knew I had to do it and I _had_ to last the course."
                   - 1st Lt. Paul Tisdale, US 437th Troop Carrier Group

    A WOUNDED PILOT LANDS HIS GLIDER

         "I didn't, nor did any other glider pilot, have the luxury of a
    co-pilot.  I had an artillery T/Sgt. sitting in the co-pilot's seat.  I
    had my hands full trying to follow the tow plane and he was
    understandably nervous.  There was little opportunity for talk.
         Our landfall was Dunkerque and the C-47 tow planes had to climb to
    clear the buildings in the city.  It was at this point we became good
    targets because of our air speed, about 110 - 120 mph and our altitude
    of 200 to 300 feet.  We started to receive small arms fire and small
    caliber flak and this continued all the way into Holland.
         The glider carried, in addition to the T/Sgy., two PFC soldiers
    and a jeep prime mover loaded with 105 mm artillery ammo.  The jeep had
    about 10 jerry cans of gasoline slung along the body.  The conversation
    was solely about what would happen if we took a direct hit.  I had been
    told during our briefing that if the campaign was successful in
    flanking the Krouts in the north or could turn their flank, we stood a
    good chance of shortening the war.
         I received seven different wounds during this operation.  The
    first was received shortly after passing over Dunkerque.  I had what I
    estimated was a 20mm shell pass through my left foot without
    detonating.  It took part of my left foot and exploded over my left
    shoulder.  A fragment split my left hand.  Later, I caught fragments
    from flak in my left elbow, chest, stomach, right thigh, buttocks, and
    the right jaw - this one fractured my jaw and was the last wound I
    received.  It knocked me groggy.
         Prior to the last hit, the gas cans had been punctured and were
    leaking gas and so was the crank case on the jeep.  This gas and oil
    soaked the floor of the 'kite' and some collected under my feet.  A
    tracer bullet caused this to catch on fire and flash so my face, eyes,
    and hands were burned.  The T/Sgt. got singed and received a flak
    fragment that perforated his right thigh and went into his scrotum.
    Needless to day, this made him very apprehensive.
         Without a co-pilot, with my left foot and hand useless, my eyes
    less than effective, and in a semi-conscious state, I hit the tow
    release and by the grace of God made a good, very short field landing
    in a small plowed field near the town of Schijndel North Brabant.
         We immediately came under fire from a Krout patrol.  The two PFC's
    had seats in the jeep during the flight and were unscratched.  They
    gave me first aid and since I couldn't see any sense in their being
    captured with me, I ordered them to scram and to try to find the
    Landing Zone.  I think I gave them our estimated position and a compass
    heading for the LZ.  I should point out that one of these PFC's, a lad
    by the name of Anthony (surname) from Brooklyn, epitomized the 'good
    soldier' by cool and gutsy behavior during the incident.  We were under
    small arms fire from a Krout patrol but he went about his first aid
    tasks, helped me and the T/Sgt. into a ditch and only when he had done
    all that he could, did he obey my order to get going to avoid being
    captured."
                   -2nd Lt. George Brennan, US 442nd Troop Carrier Group

    Next, tragedy and humor in the Groesbeek area.

    Doug

Received:  27-Oct-1994 10:43am

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 08:50:11 -0500
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: HYPO: The "Big" what-

Dear Henry-
A comment on your post mentioning the BEF in 1940; I think the infantry
was probably second to none, but the armor (both in philosophy and material)
was truly dreadful at the time.
Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 11:29:24 EDT
From:    Doug McCabe <[email-masked]>
Subject: More on WvB

                   Ohio University Electronic Communication

   Date:  27-Oct-1994 10:54am EST

     To:  Remote Addressee                     ( _MX%"[email-masked]" )

   From:  Doug McCabe                                Dept:  Library
          MCCABE                                   Tel No:  (614) 593-2715

Subject:  More on WvB

    After a little more snooping through Cornelius Ryan's files here are
    some more tidbits.

    From a November 12, 1954 article in _Collier's_ by Hodding Carter
    entitled "The Rocket Scientists" -
         "Although he was not a military man, von Braun held an honorary
    high military rank.  Using the official stationary of the SS, the dread
    Nazi storm troops, he wrote and signed counterfeit orders for the
    evacuation of Peenemuende.  Had the ruse been discovered he could have
    been executed, but in the caos no one questioned the papers'
    authensity.  The missile men loaded equipment into boxcars and trucks
    and set out, with thier women and children, on a tortured journey to
    the West."

    That's really it concerning our topic focus - lots of good stuff,
    though, on the early space program.

    Doug McCabe

Received:  27-Oct-1994 11:29am

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 11:35:34 -0400
From:    James E Irwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: New Rommel Book

To all interested parties:

The December 1994 issue of the Military Book Club news arrived
yesterday.  The featured selection is _Rommel: In His Own
Words_, edited by Dr. John Pimlott.

The News selection reads, in part:

        "...Among the insightful and often candid entries is
much newly translated and never-before-published material
recovered after WWII and excerpts from others, such as General
Montgomery, as well as an abundance of photographs, some taken
by Rommel himself."

Dr. Pimlott is the head of War Studies at the Royal Military
Academy at Sandhurst.

Sorry, there is no publishing information.

Jim

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        [email-masked]
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 11:47:10 EDT
From:    Patrick D Marsden <[email-masked]>
Subject: NOST/GEN:  weddings

This is almost totally unrelated to WWII so I'll keep this very short.
I'm planning on popping "the question" to my girlfriend this weekend.
Does anyone have a unique way of proposing??

Sorry for taking up list space with this but I was out of ideas - I can
be reached directly at   [email-masked]   TIA. :)

patrick
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 12:08:23 EDT
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP:  CVE-21  USS Block Island

From: Dictionary of American Fighting Ships, Vol. I, 1964, Navy
Department, Office of the Chief of Naval Operations, Naval History
Division, Washington, D.C.

BLOCK ISLAND (CVE-21)

dp. 7800;
l. 465' 8";
b. 111' 6";
dr. 26';
s. 18 k.;
cpl. 890;
a. 2 5";
cl. BOGUE

The first BLOCK ISLAND (ACV-21) was launched 6 June 1942 by Seattle-
Tacoma Shipbuilding Corp., Seattle, Wash., under a Maritime Commission
contract; sponsored by Mrs. H. B. Hutchinson, wife of Commander
Hutchinson; transferred to the Navy 1 May 1942; and commissioned 8 march
1943, Captain L. C. Ramsey in command.  Originally classified AVG-21,
she became ACV-21, 20 August 1942, and CVE-21, 15 July 1943.

Departing San Diego in May 1943 BLOCK ISLAND steamed to Norfolk, Va., to
join the Atlantic Fleet.  After two trips from New York to Belfast,
Ireland, during the summer of 1943 with cargoes of Army fighters, she
operated as part of a hunter-killer team.  During her four anti-
submarine cruises BLOCK ISLAND's planes sank two submarines: U-220 in
487-53 N., 33-30 W., 28 October 1943 and U-1059 in 13-10 N., 33-44 W.,
19 March 1944.  She shared the credit with CORRY (DD-453) and BRONSTEIN
(DE-189) for the sinking of U-801 in 16-42 N., 30-20 W., 17 March 1944
and with BUCKLEY (DE-51) for U-66 sunk 6 May 1944 in 17-17 N., 32-29 W.
Three of BLOCK ISLANDS escorts, THOMAS (DE-102), BOSTWICK (DE-103), and
BRONSTEIN sank U-709 on 1 March 1943 and the same day BRONSTEIN got U-
603.

At 2013, 28 May 1944, BLOCK ISLAND was torpedoed by U-549 which had
slipped undetected through her screen.  The German submarine put one and
perhaps two more torpedoes into the stricken carrier before being sunk
herself by the avenging EUGENE E. ELMORE (DE-686) and AHRENS (DE-575) of
the screen in 31-13 N., 23-03 W.

BLOCK ISLAND (CVE-21) received two battle stars for her service.

    Steve L. New
    [email-masked]
    Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 12:08:38 EDT
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: CVE-23  USS Breton

From: Dictionary of American Fighting Ships, Vol. I, 1964, Navy
Department, Office of the Chief of Naval Operations, Naval History
Division, Washington, D.C.

BRETON (CVE-23)

dp. 7800;
l. 495' 8";
b. 111' 6";
dr. 26';
s. 18 k.;
cpl. 890;
a. 2 5";
cl. BOGUE

BRETON was launched 27 June 1942 by Seattle-Tacoma Shipbuilding Corp.,
Tacoma, Wash., under a Maritime Commission contract; sponsored by Mrs.
A. H. Rooks, widow of Captain Rooks; and commissioned 12 April 1943,
Captain E. C. Ewen I command.

Throughout her World War II service BRETON operated with the Carrier
Transport Squadron, Pacific Fleet.  Her sailings carried her throughout
the Pacific supplying men, materiel, and aircraft to units of the fleet
engaged in making strikes on the enemy.  While engaged in these duties
BRETON took part in the capture and occupation of Saipan (11 June-10
August 1944); the Battle of the Philippine Sea (19-20 June);  the 2nd
Bonins raid (24 June); and the assault and occupation of Okinawa (6-7
April 1945).

Upon her return to the west coast in January 1946, after serving as a
unit of the Far Eastern occupation forces, BRETON prepared for
inactivation at Tacoma, Wash., and went out of commission in reserve
there 30 August 1946.  She was reclassified CVHE-23 on 12 June 1955.

BRETON received four battle stars for her World War II service.

    Steve L. New
    [email-masked]
    Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 12:18:46 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: WWII Memoirs

Also Saburo Sakai's "Samurai" for a long-term Japanese point of view.

Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 17:30:56 +0100
From:    Wojciech Borczyk <[email-masked]>
Subject: Polish vehicles

  Hello Greg,

  Thank you for your answer to my letter about the Polish war-time
vehicles. I think that I could add some information to your remark
about the Polish Renault R-35 tanks used by the Rumanians.The first R-35
tanks were bought in 1938 ( probably there were two or three vehicles ).
They were tested and afterwards, in spite of being estimated only
as 'average' and actually inferior to some Polish constructions,
in April 1939 a greater number of new tanks was ordered from the
manufacturer in France. The reason of this purchase was the condition
set in the Polish-French armament credit agreement, that the major
part of the funds had to be spent on French equipment.
The contract mentioned 100 vehicles, but the first part of the delivered
tanks (which reached Poland in July 1939) consisted of 49 vehicles only.
All the tanks were sent to the 12th tank batallion in Luck. During the
war, in the middle of September 1939, 34 tanks crossed the Rumanian
border; other 3 joined the 10th motorized cavalry brigade and then
crossed the Hungarian border. The rest were damaged during the two
subsequent fights: first against the Soviets at Krasne (September 19th)
and then against the German troops at Kamionka Strumilowa.
Nobody knows what has happened with the second part of the
contracted 100 tanks. They were probably dispatched from France
by train but never reached Poland. Do you know anything more about it ?

  You've asked me whether Polish KOP ever used any armoured vehicles.
I suppose - writing 'KOP' you think about 'Border defense corps',
( KOP is an abbreviation of Korpus Ochrony Pogranicza ). I cannot
give you an exact answer. Of course, KOP was not an armoured unit.
In principle KOP was created as a kind of a small police-type army
protecting the Eastern frontiers of Poland (with the USSR and
Lithuania). The political situation required stronger units than
usual Frontier Service (extremely bad relationships with Lithuania
and large ethnic minorities hostile to the Polish rule). The
state of roads in the Eastern Poland favoured a horse-mounted cavalry
as mobile troops - the only motorised KOP units I know about are
two engineering platoons. During the mobilisation by the end of
the August 1939 small units of KOP were grouped into regiments and
brigades and most of them were displaced westwards and to the southern
frontier of Poland where they enforced the regular army units. The
reserve KOP units reconstructed in Eastern Poland were the first to
meet the Soviet invasion, but this subject was not studied by historians
during the communist's rule in Poland. Let us hope that some new
monographs on this subject will be published in future.
  I would like to stress that KOP troops were not the only units which
were fighting on the Western border at the beginning of the war. In the
Polish defence plan the majority of forces was placed close to the
borders (political and economical reasons excluded more efficient
defence variants) so the German attack met the regular forces at the
very beginning. The list of motorized troops that were fighting on the
border between 1st and 3rd September 1939 consists of the 10th
Motorized Cavalry Brigade, 8 Armoured Units (13 tanks and 8 armoured
vehicles each), 11 Independent Companies of Reconnaissance Tanks
(13 small reconaissance tanks each), 8 armoured trains not counting
the reconaissance and enforcement units in infantry divisions and
cavalry brigades. About 60 tanks and armoured cars have been lost in
those first 3 days. Unfortunately the majority of Polish troops were
poorly equipped, a number of vehicles was often insufficient
(so insufficient that many private cars and motorcycles were
requisitioned by the army after 1st September ).

                    With best regards -

                    Wojciech Borczyk [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 12:13:33 -0500
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ME163

Emmanuel,
Didn't they have to be careful that even the fumes of the different fuels
didn't come into contact with each other?  Special precautions, such as
filling each tank at different times and washing down the equipment before
switching to the other fuel?  I thought I had seen that somewhere, but
don't recall where.

Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 13:36:45 EDT
From:    Mary Hricko <[email-masked]>
Subject: Eighth Air Force 93rd

    I am doing research on the Eighth Air Force, particularly the 93rd
 Airborne Division. Does anyone know of a detailed account of this group's
 activities, commanders, etc. I am particularly interested in finding
 information on Lt. Col Louis Mazure. I don't have further details on
 Mazure at the moment, but will post another message with additional
 information. Thanks.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 12:35:34 -0500
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Homefront: US: Hollywood during WWII

Lee B. Powell, actor of some note (leads in two movie serials-- FIGHTING
DEVIL DOGS, as "Lt. Tom Grayson" and THE LONE RANGER, as "Allen King" a.k.a.
the Lone Ranger-- both Republic Studios, 1938; also appeared in the classic
FLASH GORDON CONQUERS THE UNIVERSE of 1940 as Flash's & Prince Barin's loyal
cohort "Roka")  enlisted in the US Marine Corps in 1942.  After rising to
the rank of sergeant and seeing combat at both Tarawa and Saipan, he was
killed in action on Tinian on July 29th, 1944  (one of my sources says
July 8th, but since the NYT reported it on August 31st, I'm inclined to
go with the July 29th date)

I don't know what sort of impact his service & death had on the public.
The New York Times had a very brief two-sentence entry at the time of his
death.  Variety also had an obituary, but I don't have access to issues
that far back.

Sources

NEW YORK TIMES August 31st, 1944
WHO WAS WHO IN HOLLYWOOD
THE GREAT MOVIE SERIALS

(from a great cliffhanger serial fan)
                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 08:10:18 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [WEAP] Battleships sunk by torpedos/gunfire

I would like to update some of the information in a recent post regarding
the attack on Battleship Row at Pearl Harbor.

Three weapons were used against the battleships - (1) type 91 aerial
torpedo, (2) 800 kg (1756 lbs) high level bombs, (3) 250 kg (551 lbs)
dive bombs.  The most damaging were the torpedos and high level bombs,
the smaller dive bombs were for thinner skinned ships (the air craft
carriers) and shore installations.

The torpedos, as previously discussed in earlier posts were configured
for the shallow 40 foot water depth of Pearl Harbor.  Another reason for
the US feeling of false security was the narrowness of the harbor lochs,
but these torpedos only needed 220 yards to arm.  They were set to run at
13 feet.  Being brand new, there were only 80 torpedos available for the
Japanese to take to Hawaii.

Mistaking a radio message from the early observation plane report that a
seaplane "carrier" was in port for aircraft carrier, the torpedo groups
from the Soryu and Hiryu, originally assigned the targets of the carriers
if in port, went to the northwest and southwest sides of Ford Island
where the carriers were normally tied up.  The Soryu torppedo group
scored one hit on the Helena, two on the Utah, and one on the Raleigh
before they realized their mistake.  The Hiryu group attacked from the
southwest against 10 10 dock and scored no hits.

Battleship Row, located on the southeast side of Ford Island, was
attacked by 29 torpedo planes from the Akagi, Kaga, Sory, and Hiryu.  Of
the 7 battleships moored on battleship row, only 4 were targeted by the
torpedo planes, the two outboard and two single moored BBs.

The West Virginia received the first torpedo hit.  Both West Virginia and
Oklahoma received the most damage from torpedos, both receiving 9 hits
each. (Confusion on these exists as the first salvage dive reports
indicated 5 hits, so that is what made it into many of the early history
books and keepps getting repeated.  Later reports from the salvage days
when in dry dock and subsequent study of photographs, pilot logs, etc.
confirms the number to now be 9 hits on each ship.)  The Oklahoma was the
BB that capsized.

The California, closest to the harbor exit channel was hit by 2 of the 3
torpedos fired at her.

The last BB in line was the Nevada.  She received one torpedo hit below
the armor belt at frame 41 - a gash 48 feet long and 33 feet high.

Contrary to continued myths, the Arizona was not the target of any
torpedos.  She was moored inside the Vestal and target by the high level
bombers.

By the time the high level bombers were on their approach run, the harbor
was already covered with smoke which hammpered the pilots and
bombadiers.  The formations had to make a familiarization run first
before they could return to drop bombs on their targets on the second or
third run.

Ten bombs were dropped on the grouping of the Arizona and Vestal.  Two of
these 800 kg bombs hit the Arizona, 2 hit the Vestal.  It was one of
these that penetrated 3 decks between Arizona's forward 14 inch turrets
and exploded her magazines.

The high level bombers (Kates) flew at 10,000 feet.  With their
observation blocked due to the smoke clouds, of the 49 bombs they
dropped, they only scored 8 hits.  Two hit the Tennesse, and two hit the
West Virginia, 2 Arizona, and 2 Vestal.  Lots of misses around the
battleships spraying water, etc. adding to the confusion of the morning.

Due to a "Admiral's Inspection" scheduled, the battleships had their
compartments open and no water tight integrity (not just the California).

Back to the Nevada.  She received one torpedo hit during the first wave.
Then the high level bombers targeted her, but none of the 5 800 kg bombs
hit her, all were near misses instead.  She was able to get underway
during the lull.  This is when the second wave hit Pearl Harbor which now
included the dive bombers (Vals).  The Nevada received the most damage
from the dive bombers, a total of 5 hits on her (250 kg bombs).  Three
hits on the bow forward on number one turret, one forward of the
superstructure, one midships astern of the stack (on the boat deck).
Onlly two of the bow hits caused flooding.  It was the torpedo hit that
caused the greater damage and responsible for her sinking (she was
grounded or beached on Waipio Point, across from Hospital Point, to
prevent her from sinking in the channel entrance.).

Originally, the dive bombers were to attack the aircraft carriers (all
dive bomberes were in the second wave).  By the ltime of their arrival
they realized no carriers present, so the went for targets of
opportunity.  All were armed with anti-ship bombs.  Upon arrival over
Pearl Harbor they now faced fierce anti-aircraft fire.  78 divebombers
were in the second wave and assigned to attack ships; of these there were
only approximately 17 bomb hits on the ships, and only 9 direct hits on
the BBs (Nevada - 5, California -1, Maryland - 2, Pennsylvania - 1).
None of the dive bomb hits penetrated any vital spaces of the BBs.

Sorry for the length of this post, a topic close to my heart.

****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       [email-masked]
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS        (808) 423-7300
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 15:11:27 -0400
From:    Mike Bechthold <[email-masked]>
Subject: detached tank turrets - info needed

I just received a letter from someone seeking information on "detached
tank turrets and dug-in tanks" employed as static fortifications.  I
can't help him but thought perhaps someone on the list could help.  I
have quoted the relevent portions of his letter below.  At the end I
have included the person's name and address for you to reply to
or you can send me the information and I will get it to him.

TIA, Mike Bechthold
[email-masked]

"As an amateur historian I don't have the contacts with professional
historians as you nor do I have the economics to do the travelling needed
to search out the interesting details, being captured documents or the
personal interviews that would make my research more on the professional
level.  This is why I'm asking for your help and assistance (would it
help in my case if I said I'm begging?)  I can use any details you are
willing to share with me about the WW2 German use of detached tank
turrets and permanently dug in tanks as static fortifications.  Any
details will be appreciated.  Please, a short note is all that's
necessary, letting me know that document # (whatever) mentioned Panther
turrets or just tank turrets.  I am very willing to pay any fees or
charges necessary for this service.

Thank you for you time,

Wm. A. Borchardt
Fest.Kwk Turme Research
4742 Heidelberg Ave.
St. Louis, MO 63123

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 15:20:27 -0400
From:    Ron Babuka <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ME163

>Emmanuel,
>Didn't they have to be careful that even the fumes of the different fuels
>didn't come into contact with each other?  Special precautions, such as
>filling each tank at different times and washing down the equipment before
>switching to the other fuel?  I thought I had seen that somewhere, but
>don't recall where.
>
>Tim J. Watts
>Valparaiso University

There was an episode of Wings on the Me-163 and the ole Luftwaffe films
showed the refuling trucks coming in with one the the fuels and filling the
tanks.  The truck then had to be driven to a secure site at away from the
aircraft.  All equipment used was hosed down with water and the aircraft
was hosed down.  Then a different fuel truck with a different crew
approached the aircraft and procceded to fuel the aircraft.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka
Cornell University
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 14:31:18 CST
From:    "SCHERRER, TIM" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Eighth Air Force 93rd

>    I am doing research on the Eighth Air Force, particularly the 93rd
> Airborne Division. Does anyone know of a detailed account of this group's
> activities, commanders, etc. I am particularly interested in finding
> information on Lt. Col Louis Mazure. I don't have further details on
> Mazure at the moment, but will post another message with additional
> information. Thanks.

You must be talking about the 93rd Bomb Group (Heavy) maybe???     I pro
bably have some basic information about them.  I am assuming this was an
England based B-17 or B-24 Group.  TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 15:03:34 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Eighth Air Force 93rd

Hello, Mary!

Will see what I can find. I can't promise anything.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 15:05:15 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ME163

Hello, Tim!

> Didn't they have to be careful that even the fumes of the different fuels
> didn't come into contact with each other?  Special precautions, such as
> filling each tank at different times and washing down the equipment before
> switching to the other fuel?  I thought I had seen that somewhere, but
> don't recall where.

    You probably saw that film clip in the series called "Wings of
the Luftwaffe" that went into this fuelling process on the Me-163.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 15:11:23 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: WWII Memoirs

Hello, Ron!

>
> Is it true that Charles MacDonald's Company Commander is part of the
> syllabus in several of the classes at West Point?

    So was "The Forgotten Soldier". There has been some contoversy
concerning this memoir as to the accuracy of the account. Weapons
were mentioned that were wrong, insignia that were wrong, etc.
However, Sager was a real person. He died a few years ago.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 16:37:49 EDT
From:    Doug McCabe <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German POWs in the US

                   Ohio University Electronic Communication

   Date:  27-Oct-1994 04:26pm EST

     To:  Remote Addressee                     ( _MX%"[email-masked]" )

   From:  Doug McCabe                                Dept:  Library
          MCCABE                                   Tel No:  (614) 593-2715

Subject:  Re: German POWs in the US

    I have just learned of a story of an escape from a POW camp in
    Minnesota by two German prisoners.  It is by George H. Lobdell,
    professor emeritus of Ohio University, entitled "Minnesota's 1944 PW
    Escape: Down the Mississippi in the _Lili Marlene #10_" published in
    _Minnesota History: The Quarterly of the Minnesota Historical Society_
    (vol. 54/3, Fall 1994) pp.112-123.
         I'll leave the story to those who are interested but throw out
    some general stats.  There were 2,222 escapes by Germans in the US
    (three were actually committed after the war was over).  All but a few
    were quickly captured.  Numerous escapes were nothing more than getting
    out for a little R&R.  In one case the prisoner might never have been
    discovered except that his three AWOL's brought him VD from his
    American girlfriend.

    Doug McCabe

Received:  27-Oct-1994 04:37pm

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 16:03:53 CDT
From:    Robert Hohlt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [WEAP] Battleships sunk by torpedos/gunfire

Thanks Jim Adams,

That was excellent.

>Being brand new, there were only 80 torpedos available for the
>Japanese to take to Hawaii.

Does the torpedo raised from PH bottom [which you have there
in the glass case] have any early serial marking denoting which
number it is?  Or did the Japanese number their ordinance at all?

Completely excellent post Jim.

Robert Hohlt, Jr.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 28 Oct 1994 08:02:40 +1000
From:    "Wilber Williams, Prentice Centre" <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Long Lance torpedo-

Edward S. Miller writes -

>  Japanese Type 93: oxygen propelled, 24" diameter, warhead 1,078 lbs,
>range 22,000 yds at 49 knots or 44,000 yards at 36 knots.

What were the different propulsion types for torpedos, and their
characteristics?

Wilber.
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Wilber WILLIAMS                           [email-masked]       |
|Prentice Centre                           Telephone : +61 7 365 4232    |
|The University of Queensland              Facsimile : +61 7 365 4477    |
|Brisbane Qld 4072  AUSTRALIA              Pager : +61 7 831 6199 #20702 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 18:09:31 -0600
From:    Tony Schuler <[email-masked]>
Subject: Eight Air Force 93rd Bomber Group (Heavy)

                93rd bombardment Group (H)
                "Travelling Circus"

Assigned Eight AF: 6 Sep 42

Component Squadrons
        328th, 329th, 330th, and 409th Bombardment Squadrons (H)

Combat Aircraft
        B-24D; B-24H, B-24J, B-24L, and B-24M

Stations
        Alconbury               9/6/42 to 12/6/42
        Hardwick                12/6/42 to 6/12/45

Group CO's
        Col Edward J. Timberlake Jr:            3/26/42 to 5/17/43
        Lt Col Addison E. Baker                 5/17/43 to 8/1/43 KIA
        Col Leland G. Fiegel                    8/9/43 to 9/27/44
        Lt. Col Harvey P. Barnard Jr.           9/27/44 to 11/27/44
        Col William R. Robertson Jr.            12/5/44 to 4/6/45
        Lt Col Therman D. Brown                 4/6/45 to 6/45
        (Lt Col George S. Brown acting 8/2/43 to 8/9/43, Lt Col Gibson E.
        Sisco acting 11/27/44 to 12/5/44)

First Mission
        10/9/42
Last Mission
        sion
        4/25/45
Total Missions
        396
Total Credit Sorties
        8,169
Total Bomb Tonnage
        19,004 Tons
A/C MIA:100 Other OP. Losses:40 E/A Claims: 93-41-44.
Major Awards
        Two Distinguished Unit Citations
        12/17/42 Operations, North Africa
        8/1/43 Ploesti

Claims to Fame
        Oldest B-24 Group in 8AF
        Flew more missions than any other 8AF bomb group
        most travelled group assigned to 8AF
        "Boomerang" was first 8AF B-24 to Fly 50 missions.

From:
The Mighty Eight: A history of the Units, Men and Machines of the US 8th
Air Force, by Roger A. Freeman Motorbooks International, c1991.

Could not find any info on Louis Mazure.

Cheers,

Tony Schuler
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 28 Oct 1994 09:08:06 +1000
From:    John Foster <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII Memoirs

>Certainly a fine idea, if possible, but even after 50 years, some vets
>prefer *not* to talk about their experiences.

  I think this was true but with the publicity around the anniversaries this
year and next and the realisation that a lot of friends are passing away I
think the majority are opening up if only to leave a record of their part in
history or that of their friends who can no longer do it. With the flood of media
quickies often they want to put the record straight or rebuff the sometimes
extensive revisionism that has occurred in some areas. Retirement has meant
that with time on their hands many are willing to think back over their lives
and have a real desire to get it down on paper.
 My experience and I am sure that of others on this list is that a younger person not family or someone from
a institution like a history dpt. often are received differently than the
family asking the same question and act as a pin to burst a bubble that has
been building for 50 years. Once that happens the flood gates open and it comes
pouring out. I interviewed a man who didn't mind talking about his experiences
because he had emmigrated here from Europe and left all that behind and had no
desire to go back etc. His family were present and his wife had a real yearning
to tell her story and the family heard many things they had never heard either
parent speak about particularly dad and less than a month after I talked to him
and he said he never wanted to go back he was in Europe at the invitation of
his son.
      The fact that some people won't talk and some of the issues involved in
an interview of this type with bringing up long suppressed memories etc is an
invaluable learning experience and tells you more about people and history
writing and sources than a dozen lecturers can convey. The better students and perhaps
future historians will find it a mind expansive exercise and it has the
advantage that it stresses that history is made by real people and serves to
keep your feet planted on the ground. A lesson like this would be invaluable to
the current crop of economists who seem lost in facts and figures scenario of
their own creation and left the human element behind.
      Like australia you have the advantage in the US that you can find
somebody from every nation and involvement for the period. A newspaper add
might bring results you didn't expect. I think the key is students who have
done the background reading required and show they really are interested all
the rest is a downhill run.
Lot's of luck!

PS lets get some feedback from some of you people involved in these sorts of
programmes. I know your out there.
Regards
John Foster

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 20:36:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 28 OCT 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SATURDAY, 28 OCTOBER 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang
  P-61, Northrop Black Widow

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): 8 B-25s fly cover for a naval task force.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, fighters strafe villages,
troops, and horses in the Menghsu-Konghow area, pound bridges around
Kaotienhsu, and hit Yangtong Airfield and shipping at Hongay, French
Indochina and Wuchou.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 80+ fighter-bombers pound
numerous targets including town areas, troops, railroad facilities, and a
variety of targets of opportunity at Mannaun, Manoi, Sinkan, Winwa, Man Mao,
Myazedi, Pinwe, Naba, Yebawgyi, and Kangon.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
  Mission 691: 382 bombers and 217 fighters are dispatched on PFF attacks on
marshalling yards in Germany; 3 bombers and 2 fighters are lost.
  1. 184 of 192 B-17s hit the marshalling yard at Hamm; 1 other hits a target
of opportunity; 1 B-17 is damaged beyond repair and 42 damaged. Escort is
provided by 93 of 105 P-51s without loss.
  2. 178 of 190 B-17s hit the marshalling yard at Munster; 3 B-17s are lost,
1 damaged beyond repair and 96 damaged; 12 airmen are WIA and 29 MIA. Escort
is provided by 106 of 112 P-51s; 2 P-51s are lost (pilots MIA).
  Mission 692: 3 B-17s and 6 B-24s drop leaflets in France, the Netherlands
and Germany during the night.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): HQ 9th Bombardment Division moves
from Chartres to Reims, France. In Germany, 45 B-26s bomb rail bridges at
Sinzig, Kempenich, and Ahrweiler, and airfield at Euskirchen; fighters escort
the bombers, fly sweeps and armed reconnaissance over W Germany, attack 6
bridges and 1 tunnel, and support US XIX Corps in Belgium near the German
border. In Belgium, the 23d Fighter Squadron, 36th Fighter Group, moves from
Juvincourt, France to Le Culot with P-47s.  In France, HQ 367th Fighter Group
and the 392d and 393d Fighter Squadrons move from Clastres to Juvincourt with
P-38s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Bad weather again limits
operations; 10 B-17s bomb a Klagenfurt, Austria aircraft factory; 6 P-38s fly
reconnaissance missions, during the early part of the night; 8 B-17s bomb
Municb W, Germany marshalling yard; 1 bombs Erlsbach, Austria.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, bad weather again
grounds the medium bombers, and restricts the XXII Tactical Air Command;
fighter-bombers and fighters, flying 65 sorties, attack vehicles and trains
in the Turin-Milan-Genoa area.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): B-24s from Saipan Island bomb Haha Jima while
others, from Guam Island, hit Yap Island.  Saipan Island-based P-47s bomb
Pagan Island. In Hawaii, the 6th Night Fighter Squadron, VII Fighter Command,
moves from John Rodgers Airport to Kipapa with P-47s and P-61s (a detachment
is operating from Saipan Island).

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force): Mariana Island-based XXI Bomber Command flies
its first combat mission when 14 B-29s attack submarine pens on Dublon
Island, Truk Atoll; 4 others, 1 carrying Brigadier General Haywood S Hansell,
Jr, Commanding General XXI Bomber Command, abort; about a third of the bombs
fall in the general target area.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s, fighting bad
weather, bomb the airfield at Puerto Princesa, Palawan Island, Philippine
Islands. During the night of 28/29 Oct, B-24s bomb the Wilhelmina Docks area
on Celebes Island. B-25s and P-38s blast town of Amboina, Ambon Island. In
the Philippines, HQ 475th Fighter Group moves from Biak Island, New Guinea to
Dulag, Leyte Island.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

28/0030Z OCT

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 20:10:12 -0500
From:    GEORGE BAUER <[email-masked]>
Subject: B-25 'kills'

It is widely cited that a B-25 of the 25th Bomb Squadron of the 17th
Bomb Group at McChord Field is credited with sinking the first Japanese
submarine on 24 December 1941 about 50 miles off the west coast of the U.S.
The pilot was reported to be Everett "Brick" Holstrom, the number 4
Dolittle pilot.

It is also widely reported that a B-25 sunk the first German submarine
in the Atlantic.

But I am told that there is no definite proof of either kill.

Can anybody help me???  Primary sources preferred; any sources appreciated.
Even suggestions about how to proceed in my research would be helpful at this
point!

  =========================================================================
  | DR.  GEORGE R. BAUER             | INTERESTS:                         |
  |                                  | Computers in Business & Education. |
  | Recently returned from my second | Education:  Curriculum development.|
  |   extended stay in Prague.       |    International Education, TEFL.  |
  | Working on second book about     | Central Europe:  Post revolution   |
  |   Prague and new Czech Republic  |    economic, social, political     |
  |   and a book about the B-25      |    problems and opportunities.     |
  |   in WWII.                       | B-25 in WWII.                      |
  | E-Mail:                          | Free lance writing and editing.    |
  |   USA:  [email-masked]    | Stamp collecting.                  |
  |         [email-masked] |                                    |
  =========================================================================

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 22:47:43 -0400
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE[2]: WWII MEMOIRS

Charles MacDonald, a fine historian for the Army Center of History, and a
friend and colleague of mine wrote the quintessential war memoir in "Company
Commander." It continues to get reprinted and read, with due cause. For the
Pacific War, I think that Gene Sledge's "With the Old Breed at Peleliu and
Okinawa," is in the same league. As a matter of fact, Gene and I were in the
same replacement battalion which joined the 1st Marine Division on Pavuvu in
the Russell Islands, and we both were in the Peleliu and Okinawa operations.
Gene and I have often spoken about our mutual experiences, and without doubt,
his is also one of the finest, truest memoirs coming out of World War II. And I
might say that both Peleliu and Okinawa were exactly as he wrote about them. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Oct 1994 20:23:29 -0500
From:    GEORGE BAUER <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII Memoirs

After conducting hours of oral history interviews with those who flew in
WWII (including two of the Dolittle raiders), I am convinced that the
majority of these people not only want to talk about their experiences,
but that they have a __lot__ to say to us.  They speak of another time,
and it is only by talking to a lot of those people (rather than reading
what many historians have written after they distilled the life out of it)
can one get any sense of what really happened.

True, their memories fade,
and the facts are not always correct, but they convey a sense of the time
that __only__ the oral history approach can reveal.  I thoroughly
recommend that as many people as possible do a few of these oral histories
and present them to a friendly museum or archives.

I have a friend who has spent hours talking with an uncle about his
experiences during WWII.  I have listened to excerpts from his tapes, and
they are fascinating!  Fortunately, he made the tapes in time; his uncle
has since died.  Beginning, as he did, with friends or relatives, is an
excellent way to begin.

BTW, can comebody tell me how to contact the Oral History Society?  (I'm
not sure of the exact name.)

  =========================================================================
  | DR.  GEORGE R. BAUER             | INTERESTS:                         |
  |                                  | Computers in Business & Education. |
  | Recently returned from my second | Education:  Curriculum development.|
  |   extended stay in Prague.       |    International Education, TEFL.  |
  | Working on second book about     | Central Europe:  Post revolution   |
  |   Prague and new Czech Republic  |    economic, social, political     |
  |   and a book about the B-25      |    problems and opportunities.     |
  |   in WWII.                       | B-25 in WWII.                      |
  | E-Mail:                          | Free lance writing and editing.    |
  |   USA:  [email-masked]    | Stamp collecting.                  |
  |         [email-masked] |                                    |
  =========================================================================

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 26 Oct 1994 to 27 Oct 1994
*************************************************