Subject: WWII-L Digest - 9 Nov 1994 to 10 Nov 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 00:00:42 -0500

There are 38 messages totalling 1563 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. WEAP: P-40's captured by Japan
  2. Battle of the Bulge
  3. INF: USN Chronology 11-10-94
  4. WEAP: CV-17  USS Bunker Hill
  5. TV Alert Canada--Profile of a Canadian in theFrench Resistance
  6. MEDIA: History on Discovery (2)
  7. WEAP: CV's 8 & 12
  8. INF: 50 Years Ago - 11-NOV-1944
  9. Japanese cannibalism in the South Pacific?
 10. P-38's in the Pacific (Part-1)
 11. Eastern Front Books (2)
 12. Wargamers!  Luftwaffe Stragedy question.. (3)
 13. Radio communications/Rhine River area (2)
 14. Ref: WWIIHRS National Battle
 15. MEDIA:V-1 Found
 16. MEDIA:V-1 Cont'd
 17. European Trip Report (2)
 18. Homefront: US: Camp Ellis, Illinois, pt. 3
 19. Komets
 20. Women in the Resistance Movement (2)
 21. TACT: HALSEY (2)
 22. Zero name: Thanks
 23. Comet Line (2)
 24. Rokossovsky
 25. Wargamers! Luftwaffe Stragedy question..
 26. help
 27. WEAP: Komet
 28. Memorial Day, 1994
 29. Italian marines in WW2 (San Marco Regt)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 00:06:00 EST
From:    Robert Quirk <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: P-40's captured by Japan

From:   NAME: Robert Quirk
        FUNC: IRAP-NRC
        TEL: (204) 983-4150                   <QUIRK@A1@ATWINN>
To:     NAME: IN%"[email-masked] <IN%"[email-masked]"@NRCNET@MRGATE@ATOTT2>

>From "Bloody Shambles, Volume 2" by C. Shores, B. Cull, and Y. Izawa
Grub Street, 1993
page 439
Referring to aircraft captured in Java:
"Subsequently, examples of many of these aircraft, together with a B-17D and a
P-40E, were despatched to Japan for evaluation and to be put on display."

Pages 440, 443, and 446 have photographs of the various aircraft; the nose of
a P-40 appears in one photograph.

Cheers

Robert Quirk

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 00:12:00 -0500
From:    Jeff Guimarin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Battle of the Bulge

Just a few comments about the PBS documentary "The Battle of The Bulge,"
played tonight.

In my studies and reading, I find myself easily overlooking the hardships
endured by infantryman.  Once again, I was guilty of this in regards to the
massive German offensive into the Ardennes during December of 1944.  The
documentary served as a stunning reminder that war truly is hell.  The
accounts of the American servicemen really shed light on my ignorance of what
the troops endured during this time.

For starters, I was shocked at the lack of winter supplies not readily
available for the front line.  I cannot really comprehend how these many of
these men fought in the bitter cold and struggled through snow drifts with
the same boots they had worn since wading onto the Normandy beaches.  I have
read so many accounts of how the Germans endured such hardships in the
Russian winters and I had always assumed that the Allied troops were much
better prepared for winter campaigns.  However, now that I think about it,
this was really the first winter campaign that the Allies experienced.  True,
the Italian campaign saw its share of brutal winter weather, but was it ever
as bad as the blizzard conditions in Belgium during the Ardennes offensive?
 In addition, was there such a shortage of equipment and supplies, that the
medical corps was forced to extract peniclin from the urine of wounded men
for re-use, as described by the narrarator?

The documentary brought up some interesting points that were truly revealing
as to the conditions existing during this grueling struggle.  I found the
interviews of the veterans to be very strong and compassionate.  I am not
surprised by their statements that the days they spent holding onto and then
finally reclaiming the ground were the most vivid memories of their lives.

One facet that was briefly discussed, that really deserved considerable more
time relates to the efforts made by medical personnel to put emotionally
stressed or "shell-shocked" troops back in to the line.  It is a frightening
thought how they were treated and ushered back by means of a dose of sodium
pentathol, a "good nap" and subliminal messages while in a deep sleep.
 Understanding of the psychological conditions of these men was still
obviously a practice of medieval medicine.

These are just a few of my immediate observations concerning this
documentary.  On the whole, I found it very interesting and insightlful. The
eerie scenes of shifting from vintage black and white film of infantrymen
crossing snow covered fields to present day stills of the same countryside
serve to remind one that the ghosts of the Bulge should never be forgotten.

Just another WWII buff--Jeff G.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 04:00:17 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 11-10-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
11/10 Fri.  United States naval vessels sunk:
             PT-321, by grounding, Leyte area, P. I.,
              11 d. 25'N., 124 d. 19'E.;
              sunk by United States forces.
             Ammunition  ship  MOUNT HOOD (AE-11), by explosion,
             Manus, Admiralty Islands.
            Japanese naval vessels sunk:
             Coast defense vessel NO. 11, by Army aircraft,
              Ormoc Bay area, P, I.
             Patrol boat NO. 46, by submarine GREENLING (SS-
              213), off Honshu, Japan,
              34 d. 30'N., 138 d. 34'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: Larry Jewell <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 06:35:32 EDT
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: CV-17  USS Bunker Hill

From: Dictionary of American Fighting Ships, Vol. I, 1964, Navy
Department, Office of the Chief of Naval Operations, Naval History
Division, Washington, D.C.

BUNKER HILL (CV-17)

dp. 27,100;
l. 872';
b. 93';
dr. 28' 7";
s. 32.7 k.;
cpl. 3448;
a. 12 5";
cl. ESSEX

BUNKER HILL (CV-17) was launched 7 December 1942 by Bethlehem Steel Co.,
Quincy, Mass.; sponsored by Mrs. Donald Boynton; and commissioned 24 May
1943, Captain J. J. Ballentine in command.

Reporting to the Pacific in the fall of 1943 BUNKER HILL participated in
carrier operations during the Rabaul strike (11 November 1943);  Gilbert
Islands operation, including support of the landings on Tarawa (13
November-8 December); the Kavieng strikes in support of the Bismarck
Archipelago operation (25 December 1943, 1 and 4 January 1944);
Marshall Islands operation (29 January-8 February); strikes against Truk
(17-18 February); Palau-Yap-Ulithi-Woleai raids (30 March-1 April);
Truk-Satawan-Ponape (29 April-1 May); Hollandia operation (21-28 April);
and Marianas operation (12 June-10 August), including the Battle of the
Philippine Sea.  On 19 June 1944, during the opening phases of the
battle, BUNKER HILL was damaged when an enemy near miss scattered
shrapnel fragments across the ship. Two men were killed and over 80 were
wounded.  BUNKER HILL continued to do battle and her planes aided in
sinking one Japanese carrier and destroying a part of the 475 Japanese
aircraft that were downed.  During September she participated in the
Western Caroline Islands operation and then launched strikes at Okinawa,
Luzon, and Formosa until November.

On 6 November BUNKER HILL retired from the forward area and steamed to
Bremerton, Wash., for a period of yard availability.  Repairs completed,
she departed the west coast 24 January 1945 and returned to the war
front.  During the remaining months of World War II BUNKER HILL
participated in the Iwo Jima operation and the 5th Fleet raids against
Honshu and the Nansei Shoto (15 February-4 March); and the 5th and 3rd
Fleet raids in support of the Okinawan operation.  On 7 April 1945
BUNKER HILL's planes took part in a fast carrier task force attack on a
Japanese naval force in the East China Sea.  The enemy battleship
YAMATO, one cruiser, and four destroyers were sunk.

On the morning of 11 May 1945, while supporting the Okinawa invasion,
BUNKER HILL was hit and severely damaged by two suicide planes.
Gasoline fires flamed up and several explosions took place.  The ship
suffered the loss of 346 men killed, 43 missing, and 264 wounded.
Although badly crippled she managed to return to Bremerton via Pearl
Harbor.

In September BUNKER HILL reported for duty with the "Magic-Carpet"
fleet.  She remained on this duty as a unit of TG 16.12 returning
veterans from the Pacific until January 1946 when she was ordered to
Bremerton for inactivation.  She was placed out of commission in reserve
there 9 January 1947.

BUNKER HILL received the Presidential Unit Citation for the period 11
November 1943 to 11 May 1945.  In addition, she received 11 Battle stars
for her World War II service.

     Steve New

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 08:27:16 ADT
From:    Joanne Brown <[email-masked]>
Subject: TV Alert Canada--Profile of a Canadian in theFrench Resistance

I forget the name of the show, I think it's Witness, or Man Alive or
something of that nature.  It seems to profile the story of a
Saskatchewan native who worked in Resistance activities in France
during WWII.  It's scheduled for tonight (Thursday) in the early
evening.

I love stories about the Resistance and escape networks
like the O'Leary and Comet lines.  Anybody up to chatting?

Joanne Brown

Joanne Brown, Reference Department
Ward Chipman Library
University of New Brunswick
Saint John, N.B. CANADA
Ph: (506)  648-5718
Fax:(506)  648- 5701
email: [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 07:32:19 EDT
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA: History on Discovery

     Last night, while watching a fascinating special on Bikini Atoll,
     (from the bomb drops, to finding the old wrecks, to attempts to clean
     up the islands, to the terrible impact this has all had on the
     original Bikini Islanders (Probably the last helpless victims of the
     Big Power struggle of WWII.  They still can't go home, the island is
     currently safe to visit, but the entire food chain still carries
     unsafe levels of radioactive contaminants.)

     Anyway, while all this is going on, they break in to announce a
     Normandy Invasion special, "In the words of the men who fought
     there...".

     The Discover Channel (Those nice people who bring us Weekday Wings)
     Saturday, 12 November 94
     7:00 PM Eastern / 8:00 PM Central / (19:00 for Ben Frank)

     Steve New

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 07:32:33 EDT
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: CV's 8 & 12

     Jorge,

     I was unable to translate the pictures using the UUDECODE.EXE program
     that I own.

     Steve

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 04:34:42 -0800
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 11-NOV-1944

On 11-NOV-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the US 3rd Army sector, the offensive by the XX Corps
continues. Units of the 95th Division establish a bridgehead over the Moselle
near Thionville. The 6th Armoured Division with support from the 80th Division
establishes bridgeheads over the river Nied.

Philippines (Leyte) - A Japanese convoy is attacked off Ormoc by aircraft
from TF 38. Four destroyers and one minesweeper are sunk as well as five
transports with nearly 10,000 troops.

Pacific - A squadron of cruisers and destroyers commanded by Rear-Admiral A.E.
Smith shells Japanese airfields and coastal installations on the island of Iwo
Jima.

Burma - The British 36th Division is forced to halt after an unsuccessful
attempt to outflank the Japanese positions in the Pinwe area.

China - Aircraft of the US 14th Air Force attack Hungyang airfield making it
unusable for the Japanese bombers.

The Homefront
-------------
Wisconsin Player Dies - Allan J. Shafer, 17 year-old University of Wisconsin
quaterback, has died of internal injuries in Madison, Wisconsin a few hours
after being hurt in the second quarter of the Wisconsin-Iowa football game.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "Facts On File Yearbook 1944,
Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.netcom.com in directory /pub/jbd and can
be accessed via the WWW by URL: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/jbd/ww2.html. If you
have difficulty accessing the Netcom FTP server, please keep trying because it
stays very busy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis     [email-masked]
Cary, N.C.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 09:40:44 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Japanese cannibalism in the South Pacific?

> Also, John Toland recounts in _The Rising Sun_ the thoughts of
> cannibalism that tormented a hungry soldier retreating from American
> forces in the Philippines (on Cebu, I believe). I don't have the source
> with me, so I can't give you an exact citation. Numerous accounts of the
> great hunger suffered by Japanese troops in the field have survived, many
> of them in diaries captured during operations such as the ill-fated
> Kohima-Imphal campaign. I have seen no references to cannibalism in any
> of them, but then again one would hardly expect that sort of thing to be
> committed to paper.

The post-war Japanese film "Fires on the Plain" revolves around the awful
conditions for the Japanese troops, and the resultant cannibalism.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 10:06:09 EDT
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: P-38's in the Pacific (Part-1)

Attempting to respond to the question "What did the P-38 do outside
the ETO?" is a pretty tall order.  To find a source short enough for
E:mail but broad enough to at least cover the main points I resorted
to magazine articles, and found this to be the best in my collection.

Wings Magazine
4 August 1978

"The P-38 Lightning in the Pacific, the Aleutians, China-Burma-India

By,
Warren M. Bodie

Author's Note: What began as a modest series with no more than five
or six parts just seemed to grow like Topsy. This dissertation on
the development and service history of the Lockheed P-38 was
originally launched because so much erroneous information had been
published and republished (if not plagiarized) about the Lightning
over a period of 35 or more years that it was close to being an
affront to serious aviation historians. However, as the data
developed through intensive research and fact evaluation, we soon
realized that the P-38 story could hardly be compressed into a
standard format. Our horizons expanded as we derived more and more
information from sources who were intimately involved with the
airplane at the most significant stages of its evolution. Many of
those who were the most knowledgeable or had accumulated the
greatest experience or expertise had never before been interviewed
about the subject by any serious historian. In fact, it was amazing
that neither the designer, Clarence L. Johnson, or the Air Corps
project officer and test pilot, BGen. Benjamin S. Kelsey, had been
interviewed on that specific subject, even by the author of a
widely read book?

It is our most heartfelt desire to thank those persons who not only
participated in the making of history but who were motivated to
contribute their long-stored knowledge to our cause. Those persons
to whom we are so deeply indebted for narrative and photographic
material include: MGen. James Briggs, William H. Caughlin, Harvey
Christen, Raymond Crawford, Col. Harry Dayhuff, LGen. James H.
Doolittle, Col. Ralph Garman, Col. James W. Harris 111, Arthur
Heiden, Col. Frederick G. Hoffman, Cy Homer (Dec.), Col. Cass Hough,
Col. Jack S. Jenkins, Clarence L. "Kelly" Johnson, BGen. Benjamin S.
Kelsey, James Kunkle, Col. Thoman G. Lanphier, Jr., Anthony Levier,
Col. Stanley Long, James Mattern, George McCutcheon, Joseph Onesty,
Col. Chet Patterson, Col. Sammy A. Pierce, Kenneth Pittman, W.A.
"Dick" Pulver, Col. Harold Rau (Dec.), Col. Raymond Toliver and
Col. John W. Weltman. Many others provided access to photographs
that contributed immensely to our ability to reproduce literally
hundreds of heretofore unpublished pictures. Material of that sort
is not only a great visual asset to any publication, it can
frequently provide the key to a wealth of previously undetected
data. So we also extend our appreciation to those who provided
useful graphic arts material in response to our pleas.

THE ASIATIC WAR

Combat flights ended quietly for the 475th Fighter Group, known
widely as "Satan's Angels," on July 21, 1945, with their scoreboard
indicating the air to air destruction of 551 enemy craft in 87
engagements for the total combat expenditure of only fifty-six P-38s
and the unfortunate loss of twenty-seven pilots. (There were a few
more pilots who lost their lives, but not as a result of enemy
action.) That was the record of the Fifth Force's only fighter group
that was, from the outset, composed entirely of Lockheed Lightnings.
A unique status had been maintained since the Spring of 1943 when
the group was created in the far reaches of the Southwest Pacific
theater of operations at one of the most crucial periods of the
war. Lt. General George Kenney knew when his day of reckoning was
upon him in the grim months of 1942, and he uncompromisingly and
steadfastly tied his wagon to the Lockheed star.

Literally flying in the face of overwhelming pressure generated by
the marginally desperate 1943 requirements of Doolittle's Twelfth Air
Force in the Mediterranean Theater and of Eaker's crisis plagued
Eighth Air Force daylight bombing program in the European Theater,
Kenney knew that his and Gen. MacArthur's chances of success in
combating the Japanese forces depended on the fighting capabilities
of the P-38. Nearly two years after he took this stance, the fighter
pilots of the Fifth Air Force were constantly proving how sagacious
the general had been. Probably the purest example of the general's
wisdom was the record attained by the 475th Group in a 2 month
period during November-December 1944, in the tenuous and often
desperate Philippines campaign, the three combat squadrons, plus
elements of Headquarters squadron, assigned to the 475th totally
destroyed 169 enemy aircraft in the air for the loss of only nine
P-38s and no more than four pilots.  The e/a kill ratio rose to a
fantastic 11 to 1 at that time, a classic figure comparable to the
14 to 1 ratio later attained by the famous North American F-86Es and
Fs during the Korean War. All of this was in the face of primitive
maintenance and living conditions and a Kamikaze minded enemy who was
not the victim of some "turkey shoot" syndrome, In a period when the
Japanese pilots were imbued with a fatalistic fanaticism for ramming
American aircraft, the AAF pilots surely could not be accused of
attacking a reticent or incompetent enemy.

In fact, quite the opposite was often true. While the abilities of
the average pilot had decreased somewhat (just as many of our
pilots had been poorly trained in 1942), their attitudes were intense
and their airplanes had far better performance than those of their
predecessors. In keeping with this improvement in enemy capabilities,
several late model P-38J and L aircraft had literally been stressed
beyond repair as a result of extremely vigorous maneuvering in
pursuit of individual enemy fighters,

Although a few pilots in the 475th FG (and the companion 49th FG)
had fabulous scores at the end of hostilities, the dominance of the
P-38 was not limited to just a few pilots. Quite the contrary.
Forty two pilots in the 415th group attained "ace" status and more
than 40 pilots in the 49th group shot down five or more Japanese
aircraft.

Results had not always been that productive in the perilous reaches
of the far Pacific. Early in the war, most pilots had to face the
Asiatic enemy in Curtiss P-40s and Bell P-39s. And while some of the
pilots in P-40s did not do too badly against the invaders,
it must be admitted that the best P-40 accomplishments seem to have
come late in 1944 when pilots like lt Robert DeHaven scored heavily in
P-40Ks and P-40Ns just before converting to P-38s and P-47Ds. All the king's
horses and all the Bell P-39s assigned to the SWPA were never going to
gain mastery of the air.  To make matters worse, the P-40s were critically
limited by range, altitude, maneuverability and firepower.

No map can clearly impart the tremendous distances that had to be
spanned in the Southwest Pacific arena. General MacArthur's island
hopping campaign could never have been carried out with any degree of
success in 1943 and 1944 without having the Lockheed Lightnings
there to support the efforts. The P-47N and P-51D types were not on
the scene until the war in Europe had been contained. It was only
in 1945 that those latter types entered the fray with any semblance
of numerical superiority, except possibly in India.

The 8th, 35th, 49th and 475th Fighter Groups carried the battle
to the enemy across the deadly expanse of New Guinea, an island of
mind boggling size - in fact, it is the world's second largest island
mass. Pilots either flew over the deadly shark filled waters
surrounding it, or vaulted its impenetrable jungles populated
by uncivilized cannibal tribes.

Clawing their way through determined enemy pilots in a variety of
fighters designed to dogfight in the classic style, pilots of the
475th, for example, performed well beyond all expectations. By
the time the Philippines had been secured, it was only a matter of
bombing Japan's survivors into submission. The fight against odds
had become history.

Port Moresby, Dobodura, Nadzeb, Hollandia, Biak, Dulag, Lingayen,
Luzon were names that could hardly be described as household words in
the American citizens' vocabulary. But they were indelibly impressed
into the minds of those pilots who suffered through more than two
years of frequently tenuous aerial combat.

Nearly forgotten in the mists of time and location, a relatively
small but critical war was also fought in the stormy Aleutian
Islands that extended in a chain to a point that often brought
American fighter pilots closer to the Japanese homeland than they
were to the US territorial mainland. As described later in this
portion of the P-38 story, the Lockheed Lightning definitely
played the major fighter role in this peripheral war that, fortunately,
did not escalate into a more significant conflict. Although some
P-40s and a squadron of P-39s were involved, nearly all escort
missions and area defensive fighter sorties were conducted by
P-38Es before the Aleutian campaign was successful in driving out
Japanese invasion forces. The single engine types did not even become
a factor in the war until Adak Island was occupied in late
summer of 1942, reducing the range to the enemy base at Sitka
to about 200 miles.

Col. Stanley A. Long, USAF, Ret, first AAF pilot of a P-38 to shoot
down an enemy aircraft, recalls that the P-38 was ideally suited to
the war in that arena. When he was asked to enumerate the P-38's
attributes and faults, he replied that "the P-38 didn't have any
faults" He recalled the many times, when he was leading P-51D Mustang
missions over Korea, a decade after he fought in the Aleutian chain,
he frequently found himself wishing he was back in a P-38.

Not many Lightnings became available for operation with the Tenth
Air Force in the India Burma Theater of Operations, although the
"Green Dragons" managed to rack up numerous victories over enemy
aircraft. However, from the early days of 1943, photo reconnaissance
F-4 and F-5 types operated in the theater with outstanding results.
Burma-lndia operations were conducted with a very muddled bag of
combat aircraft throughout the war, including such diverse types as
Mustang Is, P 47Ds, P 51Ds, Spitfires, Vultee Vengeances,
Beaufighters, Mosquitoes, Warhawks and Kittyhawks. (Photographer
Ken Sumney even recalls seeing one Curtiss Mohawk P-36 type that
belonged to the RAF as late as 1944 in India.)

After the reorganization of the Far East Air Forces in 1944,
Lightning recon and fighter aircraft of the 14th Air Force carried
out important operational activities from rudimentary bases in
various parts of China. Operations in the CBI were, for the most
part, considerably different from those prevalent in the Southwest
Pacific, the MTO and the ETO. No massive escorted bombing formations
were involved; air-to-air combat was relatively low key and on a
small scale; large cities were seldom in the picture and mechanized
warfare was not a dominant theme.

It is difficult to categorize one other aspect of P-38 participation
in WWII.  Where do we address the many P-38/F-5 operations conducted
in the Caribbean? Hundreds of photo-recon missions were flown from
Central and South American bases, mostly in connection with anti
submarine warfare operations. The activities were about evenly divided
between fighter and reconnaissance flights, with the fighters often
involved in protective surveillance flights over Allied convoys.

Of the 9924 Lightnings constructed at Burbank, approximately 1850 of
them saw service as reconnaissance aircraft, performing their
missions without guns.

All in all, the P-38 type had to be rated as the most effective AAF
fighter aircraft in use in 1942 through 1944. Let's look at the
picture in the clear light of day. Take 1942 as an example. At Eglin
Field, Florida, AAF test reports indicated a clear superiority of
P-38 and P-47 fighters over all other American types. Yet, only the
P-38 (of the two) was involved in actual combat, demonstrating its
prowess over the enemy in North Africa, the ETO--in Iceland, for
example--in the Aleutians, and in the Southwest Pacific.
Not even the top AAF fighter in the ETO at that time--the Spitfire Mk 5,
a borrowed type in somewhat restricted useage--could handle the jobs
allocated to the P-38 in North Africa, the Alaskan Theater, and especially
in the crucial effort of stopping the Japanese incursions in New Guinea
and the Solomon Islands. Yet, Spitfire production in one month at that
time outstripped Lockheed P-38 production for a year. Moreover, the
Spitfire was poorly suited to the geographic conditions in which that
conflict was being waged. As a consequence, all of the slack had to be
absorbed by P-40Es and Ks and the demoralizing Bell P-39s and P-400s
assigned to island defensive forces. Notice that the Mustang remains
unmentioned. Only a few P-51s and the dive-bombing A-36s participated to
any degree in the North African campaign, while the British restricted
their use to low-level interdiction and coastal reconnaissance missions
over Europe. Just a hand full of Allison powered Mustangs served in combat
in 1942.

The following year, 1943, definitely served to point out the fine
qualities of the P-38, in spite of the overwhelming demands placed on
its services, and -- frequently ignored -- the tactical doctrinal
errors that penalized the P-38 and its pilots until the picture was
totally distorted. (Who has ever acknowledged that the P-51Ds were
committed to the fray just at a time when many of the bomber doctrines
that had prevailed for years were discarded? ETO and MTO P-38s had been
"handcuffed" in protecting bombers for 18 months by that time.) Even so,
the P-38 was without peer in the MTO. In the ETO, it was the only
fighter--until the advent of the Mustang--in the Allied forces that
could escort the suffering B-17s and B-24s deep into Europe. The battle
of the Southwest Pacific was strictly a P-38 show, crowned by the Yamamoto
Mission and the dominant role played out over New Guinea. Air control of
the Aleutians was held by the P-38s. The CBI was a polygenetic collection
of what ever was available, but the few P-38s that were there, certainly
did not take a back seat to any other type.

By 1944, the revamped Mustangs, by then in large-scale mass production, and
the improved breed of Thunderbolts overwhelmed the P-38s in the ETO by dint
of mass availability, not to mention their greatly improved performances.
On the other hand, the P-47D was no match for the demands of the Pacific
Theater, while the P-38J and L types continued to pound and hound the
Japanese. Meanwhile, the magazine and newspaper writers of the day
continued to gnaw on the premise that the meatball-marked fighters
could outmaneuver the P-38 at every turn. (A review of most popular
aviation journals and news stories issued during the war years would lead
you to believe that everything the Japanese flew was a "Zero" type.) Messrs.
Bong, McGuire, Westbrook, Lynch, MacDonald and a host of others continued
to show the other side of the coin. Most of 1944 was also a period of
dominance for the P-38 in the tremendous assault on the underside
and eastern expanses of Europe. The type also proved equal to the job
assignments in China and Burma, and it would be difficult to
identify any totally superior type in service in India.

Even in 1945, the P-38 was in there struggling for the crown in
such diverse places as the ETO (Ninth Air Force), the CBI, the
Western Pacific and the fading war in the MTO. Like the P-38, the
P-47D gave ground to the P-51D throughout Europe. Furthermore, the
early Thunderbolt never earned a favorable reputation in the
Pacific, but that was soon to be dispelled by the appearance of the
P-47N with its greatly improved performance. Again, the P51D was
coming on strong, as well it should have through sheer availability
and improved performance, not unexpected in a much newer aircraft.

With this new hindsight, does it not appear that the Lightning has
been the long suffering victim of a half informed public viewpoint?
We sincerely believe that to be the correct, more sharply defined
picture.

There can be little, if any, doubt that the F-4 and F-5 camera
planes were hands down winners over all other reconnaissance types in
every theater of war. In that respect, the Lightning "had it all".

Any serious attempt to cover the highlights of four years of active
warfare involving the 5th, 7th, 10th, 11th, 13th and 14th Air Forces
- just the episodes relating to Lightnings - would fill volumes, and
with intriguing stories. Thus, it is our choice to touch on just a
few of the episodes to illustrate our contention that the P-38 was
certainly league champion, if not world champion, during a high
percentage of the massive global war.

End of Part One

Wings Magazine
4 August 1978

"The P-38 Lightning in the Pacific, the Aleutians, China-Burma-India

By,
Warren M. Bodie

Steve New

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 10:36:29 EST
From:    STeven Vest <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Eastern Front Books

I can vouch for the availability of "Paul Carell's" books used.  By the
sheerest of coincidences I have been reading a copy of The Foxes of the
Desert that I picked up at our library book sale.  It's a Bantam Paperback
and the original sale price was seventy-five cents!  I'd not heard about
Carell before reading about him here, but I was beginning to notice how
all of the Germans were nice, brave, fun-loving boys, the Italians were
well meaning bunglers and the British were brave but poorly led.  And of
course Rommel was the ultimate genius.

Still, it's well written and provides some nice insights to the war from
a German perspective.  He's really quite good at describing some of the
more complex battles but the book really suffers from not having maps.
I'd read more by him.  But I'm glad I know where he is coming from now.

Best

   STeven

------------------------------------------------------------------------
STEVEN VEST            *      "TWO BROKEN TIGERS, ON FIRE IN THE NIGHT,
PURDY/KRESGE LIBRARY   *       FLICKER THEIR SOULS TO THE WIND."
WAYNE STATE UNIVERSITY *              AL STEWART "ROAD TO MOSCOW"
[email-masked] *                    _PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE_
________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 11:14:15 -0500
From:    chris garcia <[email-masked]>
Subject: Wargamers!  Luftwaffe Stragedy question..

As some of you know, I'm trying to write a book for young adults on the
Me163 Komet.  There is a strategic puzzle on the Komet, I cannot for the
life of me figure out.  If any of you think you can read the minds of
Luftwaffe leaders, riddle me this:
   First a little historical background to the question:  The Komet
program was originally called "Projekt X" and was super secret.  Wolfgang
Spate, an international glider champion and top gun Jagdwaffe ace was
brought in to develop with Alexander Lippisch, a combat version of the
rocket engined sports glider 163A.  The combat version was the Me163B.
The 163B has many limitations, one of the most serious was it's short
range, about 50 miles.  To overcome this limitation, Spate began setting
up a kind of "Kammhuber" defensive line of Komet bases starting from
Venlo Holland and stretching up the northwestern border of Germany.  The
bases were within 50 miles of eachother, so a Komet pilot after a fight
could glide in at a neighboring range, and in this way double his range
from 50 to amost a 100 miles.  Any daylight bomber group crossing from
England directly to Germany would have to pass over this defensive line
and face the Komets.  This idea makes perfect sense to me.  In 1944 Spate
was suddenly pulled off the project and sent to command in his old group,
JG54 on the eastern front.  He was rep[laced by generel Gollob, who
closed down all the satellite bases and pulled all the Komets to a SINGLE
base, Brandis airfield.  Any war gamer who thinks about this for a minute
will start pulling at his hair.  It's obvious, one good bombing raid on
Brandis by the US 8th, or RAF Bomber Command and JG400 would dissappear
in one afternoon.  If it happened at night, the Komets would be unable to
even rise to their own defense!  STRATEGIC QUESTION:  What in the world
was Gollob thinking of?  Why did he believe this idea was preferable to
Spate's?  Gollob was a very respected officer, if he was not a fool, what
advantage did he think he would gain in this?
I asked Spate this question in a letter, and his anaswer was vague.  I
don't think he could ever figure it out either.  He said (sic) "..Gollob
did more to find faults with the staff work of Galland than to support
and coordinate production and military use of the Me163B.  For instance
it was a leak of thinking for Gollob to concentrate all the Me163 units
at Brandis, much too far from the theater of war, where they were
needed.  This was the reason that the efficiency of the squadrons
equipped with the Me163 was very low..."

Anybody got an explantion for this?

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 11:28:36 EST
From:    Mary Evelyn Hoffman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Radio communications/Rhine River area

I am a high school librarian with a 17 year old social studies student looking
for any information related to what the conditions were like while maintenance
and repair of communication lines was being done in the Rhine River area after
the battle had moved on. Needless to say, our library collection has nothing
this specific. Your discussions on this list indicate a lot of knowledge
amongst yourselves||

Mary Evelyn Hoffman
Naples Jr/Sr High Library
Voice (716) 374-5203
MHoffman@Monroe

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 12:33:04 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Wargamers!  Luftwaffe Stragedy question..

Need some more info, roughly how many planes in each unit, how many
units, was it because of manpower shortages, refueling problems,
were there any problems in getting ammunition to the front, there
would be some valid reasons, or maybe just as simple as Hitler told me
to...

John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:20:02 EST
From:    Patrick D Marsden <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ref: WWIIHRS National Battle

>
> I attended the WWIIHRS National Battle at Hooper, NE this past weekend.
> The event was a good, but small one.  There were approximately 200
> reenactors present, with an even split between allied and German.
>
... much deleted...
> ****************************
> *  Tim A. Scherrer

Hi Tim,
        I've been hanging on to this post for almost a month, meaning
to ask a question.  The battle you participated in sounded like a
lot of fun.  How does one get involved in WWII reenacting?  I'm in
Northern Virginia so the only reenactments we hear about are those
of the Civil war variety.

The equipment/uniforms you were using... real or reproductions? (or both?)
Were the weapons all fully-functional but firing blanks or were
they "non-guns"?  Were the units put together at random from the
participants there or did everyone arrive as a part of an organized
unit?  How much financial output is required to get started in something
like this?

This sounds like a lot of fun - running around in the woods AND having
a good excuse to buy lots of military equipment.

TIA,

patrick
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 12:21:38 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA:V-1 Found

>From the DoD Newswire 9 November 1994

:WORLD WAR II V-1 ROCKET FOUND BURIED IN GERMANY

     HOENSCHEID, Germany, Nov 8  - A V-1 missile fired by
Hitler's army at Allied troops in the dying days of World War Two has
been unearthed almost intact in a wooded German valley where it
crashed, officials said on Tuesday.
     Franz-Josef Antwerpes, head of Cologne's city administration,
said it was believed to be the first time a V-1 -- forerunner to the
more successful V-2 rocket and to modern missiles -- had been found
since the 1950s.
     Hitler's army fired about 10,000 of the jet-powered weapons,
known by the Allies as flying bombs or buzz bombs for the eerie noise
they made in flight, towards southern England and Belgium in the last
year of the 1939-45 war.
     The V-weapons -- for "Vergeltung" or retribution -- were intended
more to terrorise civilian populations than to do strategic damage.
     The V-1, with a reach of 300 km (180 miles), was fired from the
coasts of occupied France until the Allies invaded, after which it was
launched from ramps south of Cologne.  Its more effective successor,
the V-2, was launched in the north at Peenemuende.
     Buried under mud and foliage near a trickling stream, the warhead
and main body of the eight-metre (25-foot) missile were found about
100 metres (yards) from a hamlet in the Sieg region, some 40 km (25
miles) from Bonn.
     The jet engine, still holding most of its 600 litres (132
gallons) of fuel, was found bent and twisted nearby while all that was
left of the wings were rusty lumps of metal.
     Antwerpes told reporters the 40-odd inhabitants of the hamlet,
called Hoenscheid, would be evacuated on Wednesday while experts tried
to defuse the 850-kg (1,870-pound) warhead by remote control, using
video cameras.
     "They are dangerous things," Antwerpes said. "I reckon if it
exploded, it would leave a crater the size of a three-storey villa."
     Peter Bens, the head of Cologne's bomb disposal squad, said the
missile was found after a four-year search that began in 1990 with the
discovery of a launch site two km (one mile) away.
     Explaining that the V-1 was notoriously unreliable, with only a
75 percent chance of a successful launch and even less of reaching its
target, Bens said there were bound to be more V-1s which had crashed
after take-off in the area.
     Defusing the bomb would be tricky because the Nazis built devices
into the detonators to prevent tampering.
     "The Germans made sure that when the English found such a bomb
and defused it, it would blow up," Antwerpes said.
     An elderly woman said her husband had told her in the final days
of the war that a V-1 had come down in the forest behind their house.
"But then we all just forgot about it," she said.
     One of the main brains behind the V-weapon programme, Werner von
Braun, went to the United States after the end of World War Two to
help develop rockets for the U.S. space programme.

=====

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        [email-masked]
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 12:22:58 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA:V-1 Cont'd

>From the DoD Newswire 10 November 1994

:NAZI V-1 MISSILE FOUND IN GERMANY DEFUSED

    COLOGNE, Germany, Nov 9  - Bomb disposal experts on
Wednesday defused a Nazi V-1 missile found in a wooded German valley
where it crashed in the dying days of World War Two.
     Officials in Cologne said experts used remote control to pull
three detonators from the warhead of the missile, discovered buried
under mud and foliage near a stream in the Sieg region, 40 km (25
miles) from Bonn.
     It was believed to be the first time that a V-1, the forerunner
to the more successful V-2 and to modern missiles, had been found
since the 1950s. The V-1 had a range of 300 km (180 miles).
     Hitler's army fired about 10,000 of the jet-powered weapons,
known by the Allies as flying bombs or buzz bombs, at southern England
and Belgium in the last year of the 1939-45 war.
     The V-weapons -- for "Vergeltung" or retribution -- were intended
more to terrorise than to do strategic damage.
     The warhead and main body of the V-1 unearthed near the hamlet of
Hoenscheid was virtually intact. The jet engine, still holding most of
its 600 litres (132 gallons) of fuel, was found bent and twisted
nearby.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        [email-masked]
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 12:51:39 -0500
From:    Mark Rothenberg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Radio communications/Rhine River area

Not sure if this will entirely fill the bill, but these works will probably
offer some insight on Rhine communications toward war's end:

United States.  Army.  Corps of Engineers.  Office of History.  Builders and
    Fighters:  U.S. Army Engineers in World War II, by William C. Baldwin, gen.
    ed., Barry W. Fowle.  Washington, DC:  The Office, 1992.  bibliog.:  461.
    SuDocs # D103.2:B86/2.

United States.  Army.  Center of Military History.  The Corps of Engineers:
    The War Against Germany (The Technical Services; United States Army in
    World War II).  Washington, DC:  CMH, For Sale by the Superintendent of
    Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office, 1985.  SuDocs # D114.7:En3/2.
    LCCN:  84-11376.  index.

That's largely limited to U.S. Army participation, official histories.  Hope it
is of help.

Mark Rothenberg
Suffolk Cooperative Library System
Bellport, NY
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 10:26:51 -0800
From:    Jim Benn <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: European Trip Report

My wife and I spent the month of October in Europe, touring Germany,
France and Holland.  In addition to the usual tourist activities, my wife
graciously agreed to add battlefield visits to our itinerary (and
actually admitted that she learned a lot and enjoyed it).  Some of the
sites were recommended by list members, so I thought I'd give a quick
report on what I saw in case anybody will be making a trip in the future.
This is basically in the order we travelled:

DACHAU:  The first concentration camp; what amazed me is that Dachau is a
suburb of Munich, next to what is today a major road and very near the
downtown area of the city Dachau.  Hardly hidden in the country.  The
original guard towers, main building and crematorium are still there.
There is a museum, and the displays make the point that the Nazis wanted
the population to know about the brutality of Dachau, to give the message
that this was the punishment for opposition.  That was news to me.  The
offical figures for people killed there list about 30,000, but that
doesn't include Russian POWs and Gestapo "special handling" cases that
were not counted.  Probably the most chilling thing I saw was an area for
executions by pistol shots to the head.  It had a "blood ditch" to
provide a run-off so the killers wouldn't stand in blood.  Somehow this
attention to detail was the most evil thing there.

PARIS:  Visited Invalides (Napoleon's Tomb and Army Museum): good
displays of uniforms and weapons from all periods; looked for tanks I
heard were there, but couldn't find them.  Saw an interesting special
display put on by the Paris Police (it was housed in a tent outdoors)
about their history, including their part in the liberation of Paris.
Lots of markers and displays throughout the city about the liberation.

LA ROCHE GUYON:  Rommel's HQ is an impressive castle built into the side
of a chalk-like mountain.  The castle is open for tours and provides some
information about the wartime history.  It was fascinating to stand in
the room that was Rommel's office and think about everything that went on
there, from anti-Nazi plots to defending the Atlantic Wall.  The town
itself is charming.  One interesting note in the brochure was that Rommel
did not require that the Nazi flag be flown over the town hall, and that
this gesture was well received by the local populace.  Travel note: La
Roche Guyon is just down the road from Giverny, site of Monet's famous
gardens.

NORMANDY:  We stayed at a farmhouse in St. Mere Eglise, about 5 km from
the center of town.  The owner told us that on June 6 '44 paratroopers
landed in the fields across the road from his farm.  I was astounded by
the hedgerows; I had read about them, but seeing how thick and tangled
they were was stunning.  The Airborne Museum in the town was quite good.
It was kind of disconcerting to see a dummy paratrooper (John Steele)
hanging from the church steeple in the middle of town.  Kind of odd, but
tourism is a major industry here.  We visited beaches at Juno, Utah and
Omaha.  The museums at these sites were small, and the displays of
uniforms and weapons were beginning to get repetitive.  Omaha beach was
eerie to walk; first along the beach and then up on the crest were the
Germans were dug in.  It's very built up, and I guess I expected to see
shell holes and burned-out tanks after watching so much newsreel footage.
Point du Hoc was the most interesting and impressive site, because it has
not been developed or changed much.  The shell holes still cover the
labndscape, and the bunkers are there, some blown open and others
intact.  It was unbelievable to look down the cliff and imagine climbing
up under fire.

CAEN:  Of all the museums we visited, the Peace Museum in Caen was by far
the best.  If you can see only one WWII museum, go to this one.  It has a
good collection of uniforms and weapons, informative displays, a Tempest
fighter-bomber hanging in the main entrance, and super films and a/v
stuff. The best was a ten minute split screen movie showing Allied and
German preparations and fighting on D-Day (they used actual footage and
some stuff from The Longest Day) - it was entirely without narration, and
the pace and the loud sound system left everyone holding their breath;
very well done.
We also went to Pegasus Bridge over the Orne River; looks like the
original bridge.  Visited the small  museum in the cafe next to the
bridge (1st building liberated), still run by the daughter of the
original owner, who was a little girl on the night of the landings.  You
can walk along the river and see the markers which note where each glider
landed.

ARNHEM:  Visited the 6th Division Airborne Museum in Oosterbeck, at the
former Hartenstein Hotel, HQ for the 6th Division.  A good museum,
dedicated to the 6th Division's battle in Market-Garden.  What I found
disappointing was that it had little to say or show about Col. Frost's
fight at the bridge in Arnhem, just a few km to the east. Visited the
bridge, now named Col. John Frost Brucke.  None of the original houses
where the battle was fought are still there, but there is a small park
with an artillery piece and markers.

OVERLOON (HOLLAND):  Interesting outdoor park.  Overloon was the site of
a tank battle following Market-Garden. This park was part of that battle
site, and they have many tanks and other equipment which actually fought
in the battle (plus a lot of Dutch stuff).  For instance, there are
American Shermans placed right where they were hit, and some have crew
names and information as to what happened to them.  Also a German Panther
tank in good shape.  Lots of equipment of all types, and a nice area to
walk in as well.

The whole trip was great; actually seeing places I had read about for so
long was a treat as a WWII buff.  However, it also made that struggle
much more real.  My images are not black & white newsreel anymore; they
have been replaced by vivid colors and memories of the ground I walked
where so many suffered.

In Germany we stayed in many small villages. Each usually has a small
Gasthaus (guesthouse) which has rooms, a bar and restaurant, and seems to
be the center and gathering place for the village.  In many, there were
memorials to the soldiers killed in the "Kriege 1939 - 1945".  In a small
farming village in southern Germany (Moorenweiss), the memorial had
photographs of all the soldiers killed from that village.  There were
almost 300!  The pictures started out with smiling faces in dress
uniforms. Then came photos of men in winter, their faces covered in
scarves.  The last 50 or so were children; they looked 15 or 16 years
old. What a waste.

Well, it was fun writing this and reliving my trip. Hope it was of interest.

 *=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*> Jim Benn  [[email-masked]] <*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*
 |-=[        Auto-Graphics, Inc.       ]=[      /~~)       /~~)           ]=-|
 |-=[        8 West Main Street        ]=[     (__(_UTO - (__/RAPHICS     ]=-|
 |-=[        Niantic, CT  06357        ]=[              .___/             ]=-|
 *=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*>  PHONE: 800-733-6939 = FAX: 203-691-0183  <*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:09:30 -0600
From:    Michael D Wallick <[email-masked]>
Subject: Homefront: US: Camp Ellis, Illinois, pt. 3

Despite its remoteness, Camp Ellis provided its troops with a variety of
activities and the troops, in turn, became an asset to west central
Illinois.  The camp had its own newspaper, CAMP ELLIS NEWS, which, with a
circulation of 13,700 papers, was considered the largest army newspaper
without the benefit of advertising.  Camp Ellis was also the only army
camp to have its own radio network which broadcast to 200,000 listeners
weekly.  "Camp Ellis Entertains" became a listening habit every Tuesday
evening.  Besides the newspaper and radio network, Camp Ellis also planted
its own two hundred acre "Victory Garden".  In 1944, the garden produced
262 tons of more than 30 varieties of vegetables.  The troops also raised
twenty-six acres of wheat and established a chicken farm.  Furthermore,
the troops also aided the surrounding communities by providing needed
manpower during paper drives, floods, and strikes.  In Peoria, 300 Ellis
men collected 100,000 pounds of waste paper. During the floods of 1943,
Ellis engineers plugged levees at Harrisonville, Beardstown, Valmeyer, and
Waterloo.  Two soldiers were decorated for heroism.  In 1944, five
thousand Ellis men patrolled three hundred miles of levees along the
Mississippi River in southern Illinois and defended Quincy's power plant
from flooding.  When a labor shortage occurred in January 1944, engineers
from Camp Ellis laid track on the Chicago, Burlington & Quincy line
between Table Grove and Adair and worked at the Caterpillar plant in
Peoria.  Finally, one thousand Ellis men drove trucks in Chicago during a
drivers' strike in June 1945.

Camp Ellis had started to wind down by late 1944.  On October 1, 1945, the
camp was placed in the surplus category at a cost to the government of
$23,076,438.  Many farmers repurchased their land and the buildings were
sold at auction on June 29, 1950.  The auction brought in $541,377.92.
Some of the barracks became married student housing units at Western
Illinois University, and the bar from the officers' club went to a tavern
in Bushnell.  Today all that remains of Camp Ellis are two water towers
and some concrete from the sewage filtration plant.

Sources:
Knowles, Judy.  "Camp Ellis."  ILLINOIS HISTORY 12 (April 1959): 173.

Richey, John.  "Spoon River Camp."  ILLINOIS HISTORY 20 (April 1967):
159-60.

Roberts, Delbert.  "Remember When..."  MACOMB JOURNAL, 5 October 1994.

Waterson, Michele.  "Camp Ellis: Built for World War II."  ILLINOIS
HISTORY 36 (November 1982): 45-46.

Watters, Mary.  ILLINOIS IN THE SECOND WORLD WAR.  Vol. 1, OPERATION HOME
FRONT.  Vol. 2, THE PRODUCTION FRONT.  Springfield, Ill.: Illinois State
Historical Library, 1951-52.

Tomorrow, some final words about Camp Ellis.
Michael Wallick

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:57:58 -0500
From:    Michael Andrew Turton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Komets

THinking about the Komets, I'll bet the General was thinking
more like an administrator than a battle leader.  Think how
it simplified logistics to have all the Komets at one base!

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 11:28:45 PST
From:    Henry Herz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Wargamers!  Luftwaffe Stragedy question..

> Anybody got an explantion for this?
>
Just a general observation -- military deployment decisions are not based solely
on military effectiveness.  Is it possible there were political (he wanted
tight, personal control of the aircraft), logistical (limited maintenance
facilities or personnel), or economic (you would save money basing them all at
one place) reasons the Komets couldn't be spread out for greater combat
effectiveness?

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 15:10:36 EST
From:    Mary Hricko <[email-masked]>
Subject: Women in the Resistance Movement

Hello everyone,
       With all this discussion of the "Comet Line" and "Madeline," I
thought I would share some information with the group. This material is
cited from Life (v8 p26-7 1985) in an article entitled: Heroes All; Friend
or Foe Stirred the World with Their Courage.

     Marie-Madeleine-Fourcade a.k.a. Hedgehog - Fourcade led a network of
3000 agents throughout France. She was captured by the Gestapo in 1944, but
escaped the next day  by squeezing through the bars of her cell window. In
1985, she was directing a group of resistance movement survivors.

     Andree de Jongh - Set up the Comet Line, a tortuous route in which
fugitives, mainly Allied soldiers, were smuggled out of German occupied
Belgium. She was captured in 1943, but managed to assist over 200 escapees.

     Lucie Aubrac - Published a clandestine resistance newspaper and dealt
in forged identity cards and documents. She also organized acts of sabatoge.

     Hannie Schaft - Became Holland's best known freedom fighter. In 1945,
during one of her missions, she pushed a German officer in the Amsterdam
canal. She was caught and executed at Haarlem.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 15:44:13 EST
From:    "Carl Wernke - [email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: TACT: HALSEY

 To: Multiple recipients of list WWII-L([email-masked])

 Ben Frank at Wed, 9 Nov 1994 22:02:50 -0500

 Ben writes:
 > A board was set up to review Halsey's action or lack of them in commanding
 > his task force in the storm ... but Halsey's fellow admirals and
 > certainly Nimitz let him know in no uncertain terms that he blew it for
 > a second time.

 On June 5, for the second time, a typhoon struck Halsey's force, wrenching
 off the bow of PITTSBURGH (CA-72), damaging 32 other ships, and destroying
 142 planes.

 Halsey's second typhoon came near ruining his career. Another court of
 inquiry, this one also presided over by ADM Hoover, put most of the blame
 on Halsey and on ADM McCain, pointing out that they had not followed
 ADM Nimitz's Fleet Letter of advice for dealing with severe storms. The
 court recommended that Admirals Halsey and McCain be assigned to
 "other duty."  Secretary Forrestal was on the point of retiring Halsey, but
 Nimitz and King argued him out of his intention on the basis that Halsey
 was a national hero whose removal would impair American morale and boost
 that of the enemy.    Excerpts from *NIMITZ*, by E.B.Potter, U.S.N.I., 1976.

 The court of inquiry, presided over by VADM John Hoover, put most of the
 blame on ADM Halsey. Nimitz in his endorsement for the court of inquiry's
 record, moderated the verdict by stating his opinion that Halsey's mistakes
 "were errors of judgment committed under stress of war operations and
 stemming  from a commendable desire to meet military requirements." King
 softened this by adding after the word "judgment" the phrase "resulting from
 insufficient information" and changing "commendable desire" to "firm
 determination."     Excerpts from *BULL HALSEY*, by E.B.Potter, U.S.N.I.,1988.

  Happy 219th., U.S.M.C.

  Ex Scientia Tridens

  Carl Wernke USN (ret)
  [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 16:19:46 EST
From:    Dee Shneiderman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Zero name: Thanks

Hi, Y'all,
Thanks for all the info on the Zero!
Dee

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:22:34 -0500
From:    Mark Rothenberg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Comet Line

Regret I haven't been following the discussion as closely as I should.  So, at
the risk of duplication, thought I'd mention a relatively recent book:

Watt, George.  The Comet Connection:  Escape from Hitler's Europe.  Lexington,
    KY:  University Press of Kentucky, 1990.  ISBN 0813117208.  LCCN:
    89-070733.

    It's a little unusual, mainly owing to the author's past.  He was a political
commisar in the "Lincoln Brigade" (i.e., a communist), during the Spanish Civil
War, and some of his hair-raising reflections are recounted toward the end of
this short book.  He later had a falling out with Stalinism.  He joined the U.S. Air Force in WWII, as a tail-gunner in a
B-29, and his plane was shot down over Belgium in 1943.  The book recounts how
he was saved and hidden by Belgian civilians, shepherded to the French border,
where he was forwarded to Paris, got through a gestapo checkpoint on the rail
to Bordeaux, and made his escape over the Pyrenees, to the British embassy in
Madrid, then to Gibraltar, without being detected.  The French portion of the
journey was courtesy of the "Comet Line".  Did I mention that the author was
Jewish?  His survival chances, if captured and "found out about" were quite
minimal.  The book concludes with a series of meetings and reunions in France,
Belgium, and the U.S.  The author is alive, well (I think--he lectured in the
vicinity recently), and living in Northport, Long Island, NY.  In writing
style, this is not deathless literature.  But, as straightforward nonfiction,
it is a short, but gripping read.

Mark Rothenberg
Suffolk Cooperative Library System
Bellport, NY
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 16:39:09 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Rokossovsky

        Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the future Marshal Rokossovsky
"rehabilitated" during the Finnish Winter War, a year prior to the Moscow
campaign?  I know that Stalin's people recalled some formerly disgraced and/or
incarcerated officer victims of the military purges when things started to go
wrong in Finland--allowing them to work their passage, as it were, back to
respectability at the front.  The program was successful enough that it was
instituted again on a larger scale in the crisis of the winter of '41-42.
If someone knowledgeable in this area doesn't post it first I'll eventually
dig up some bio on the future c-in-c of the Polish Army.

Regards

Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 18:08:06 EST
From:    "Dennis E. Sparks" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Comet Line

I'd like to add additional information and a correction to
the post mentioning George Watt's book "The Comet Connection".
I also highly recommend his book.  It's available in paperback
for $4.99.

George was a waist gunner on a B-17F assigned to the 388th BG.
He was a part of the Bramwell crew, and they were shot down on
their 7th mission on 5 November 1943.  Returning from bombing
Gelsenkirchen, where the aircraft had been damaged, they were
shot down by a Fw 190 over Belgium.  Eight of ten man crew
baled out, with five captured by the Germans.  George and two
others evaded capture and were transported out of Belgium,
through France and into Spain courtesy of the Comet Line.

I had the good fortune to meet George in 1992, as well as the
Belgian farmer whose field George landed in.  The farmer helped
hide him.  (My friend and the farmer had a spirited discussion,
using very little English and a lot of hand gestures, as to the
relative merits of German .vs. British machine guns!)

The former navigator on the crew and one of the five that was
captured, Leland Smith, resides here in Lexington.  I called him
a couple of days ago when the Comet Line was first mentioned on
the list, hoping to be able to provide his address.  Sadly, Leland
informed me that George died about two months ago.

Dennis E. Sparks
[email-masked]
Lexington, Kentucky

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 12:00:56 -0500
From:    "David a. Vandenbroucke" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Wargamers! Luftwaffe Stragedy question..

Well, of course it could be that Gollub was just stupid.  On the other
hand, concentrating all the units of an exotic machine in the same place
would mean that logistics and repair would be much easier.  If it was late
enough in the war that transportation was getting difficult, due to air
attack and petrol shortages, it might make sense.  I have no specific
knowledge about the ME163 or its history, and this is just me speculating.

--Dav Vandenbroucke
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 21:11:39 GMT+1
From:    SYSTEM OPERATOR <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Eastern Front Books

> them better for colorful detail than accurate analysis.  I am surprised
> they're now so costly; they used to be available in Bantam paperback
> editions.  Have you tried used-book stores or libraries?
> Jim Curry
>

Thank you all for the information. The cost I mentioned was for the thick
hardcover books I saw, but yes certainly Carrell on paperback must be cheap.

Has anyone read the following books and can you give your opinion on them ?

DECISION IN NORMANDY by Carlo d'Este
THE SPANISH CIVIL WAR, by Hugh Thomas
ADOLF HITLER, by John Toland

..especially the latter. What can you counsel as the best book on the
Nazi dictatorship ?

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 21:32:45 GMT+1
From:    SYSTEM OPERATOR <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: History on Discovery

"Steve L. New" <[email-masked]> writes:

>      Last night, while watching a fascinating special on Bikini Atoll,
>      (from the bomb drops, to finding the old wrecks, to attempts to clean
>      up the islands, to the terrible impact this has all had on the
>      original Bikini Islanders (Probably the last helpless victims of the
>      Big Power struggle of WWII.  They still can't go home, the island is
>      currently safe to visit, but the entire food chain still carries
>      unsafe levels of radioactive contaminants.)

I have seen a long program on French TV too on Bikini Atoll (and a nuclear
test range in the US). Maybe it was the same...the worst may have been the
lies that were offered to the Bikini islanders about the "lack of danger" of
the experiments. They were assured all was safe while the Army did not know
what danger there was (notice the subtle difference...).
As far as I know the Bikini islanders have united with Soviet victims of
such Post War experiments....strange consequences of Hiroshima ?
But this is a bit off-topic...

Arnaud.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 18:13:56 -0500
From:    David Rising <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Women in the Resistance Movement

Add Ruth Andreas-Friedrich to your list. I just bought her book _Berlin
Underground 1938-1945_ and haven't had a chance to read it yet, but
according to the jacket, she was a member of the resistance group "Uncle
Emil" in Berlin and helped those opposed to the Nazi regime. The book is
a reprinting of her diaries. Cheers,
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 18:26:48 -0500
From:    Matthew Gajkowski <[email-masked]>
Subject: help

I was disconnected from this mailing list, what's happened.

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 18:50:38 EDT
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Komet

    There are a number of reasons why the ME-163s could reasonably be
    collected together at one base:

    1.  As has already been mentioned on this list, the logistical support
    required to maintain the ME-163 in flyable combat condition went far
    beyond that of any other operational aircraft.  The special handling
    equipment and procedures to safely refuel the aircraft with T-Stof and
    C-Stof make launching a Komet closer to launching a Space Shuttle than
    taking off in a TA-152.

    2.  There cost in equipment, and expert ground crew, to set up a string
    of independent Komet bases, 50 miles apart, across western Germany
    would have bankrupt the Luftwaffe, drawing massive amounts of resources
    away from far more effective conventional fighter operations.

    3.  Considering the state of transportation in Germany during the late
    war, there wouldn't have been enough trucks, fuel, and roads that many
    Komet bases supplied with fuel, ammunition, food etc. over the long
    run.  If these were commandeered from other areas to support the
    Komets, other, more capable defense assets would have suffered.

    4.  There weren't enough Komets in the inventory to make this a
    feasible basing strategy.  Again, if resources were commandeered from
    other production to make them, there would have been fewer BF-109G/Ks
    and TA-152s, aircraft that were much more successful and supportable
    than the Komet.

    5.  The Komet just wasn't successful enough as an interceptor to
    justify the allocation of such a vast amount of resources to this
    baseing scheme.  Going forward 100% with this plan would probably have
    been the second best thing the Luftwaffe could have done to improve the
    effectiveness of the AAFs day bombing campaign.  (The best would have
    been to throw away all those resources in the Bachem Natter program.)

    Hey, lets hang more bombs on the ME-262s while we are at it.

    Steve New

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 23:41:04 GMT+1
From:    SYSTEM OPERATOR <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: European Trip Report

Jim Benn <[email-masked]> writes:

> DACHAU:  The first concentration camp; what amazed me is that Dachau is a
> suburb of Munich, next to what is today a major road and very near the
> downtown area of the city Dachau.  Hardly hidden in the country.  The

You may or may not know it, there is was concentration camp in France, in
Alsace (though it was annexed then), called the Strutthof. Contrary to
Dachau, it is hidden, on the top of a mountain. It was about as chilling as
what you describe, and very moving. I visited it two years ago.

> landed in the fields across the road from his farm.  I was astounded by
> the hedgerows; I had read about them, but seeing how thick and tangled
> they were was stunning.  The Airborne Museum in the town was quite good.

I am interested in comparing what you saw with what hedgrows we have around
my grandparents' estate east of the Orne. Ours are very tall, composed of
entangled trees, often joining above the road forming an obscure arch. They
are not very thick though and can easily be crossed. Bordering a typical
hedgerow-lined road on each side is a small gully to drain water (Normandy
is a wet province). True bocage country is west of Caen so I am wondering if
they are that different.

Thanks Jim for your excellent report.

Arnaud.

P.S. Did you know ? 30,000 Frenchmen were deported in the USSR in 1945.
Over 10,000 died. French POWs liberated in Germany were sent to...
Siberia to be exterminated. A little known fact of the war.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 11 Nov 1994 00:47:32 GMT+1
From:    SYSTEM OPERATOR <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TACT: HALSEY

"Carl Wernke - [email-masked]" <[email-masked]> writes:

>  Halsey's second typhoon came near ruining his career. Another court of
>  inquiry, this one also presided over by ADM Hoover, put most of the blame
>  on Halsey and on ADM McCain, pointing out that they had not followed
>  ADM Nimitz's Fleet Letter of advice for dealing with severe storms. The

Thanks Carl too. As I put it to Ben, I was mostly enquiring about the
consequences of Halsey's behaviour at Leyte. What about this particular
event ? Was Halsey blamed for his errors or was he not criticized thanks to
his sinking of the Japanese carrier "baits" ? What was the Admiralty's
reaction after Leyte ?

Arnaud.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 19:19:16 EST
From:    "Larry W. Jewell" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Memorial Day, 1994

For absent friends and comrades around the world:

               Day is done,
               Gone the Sun,
               From the land,
               From the sea,
               From the sky.

               All is well,
               Rest in peace,
               God is nigh.

Remember that some gave their all that you might have all you have.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Nov 1994 19:44:15 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Italian marines in WW2 (San Marco Regt)

Regarding overseas service of the San Marco Regiment, I have a couple of
old articles from WARSHIP INTERNATIONAL (they date from 1977 & 1979) that
report the following:

Following the end of the First World War, elements of the San Marco
Regiment were assigned the responsibility of protecting Italian interests
in China.  Small detachments were stationed at the Italian Embassy at
Peking, the Italian Settlement at Tientsin, and at the International
Settlement at Shanghai.  While what role (if any) these troops may have
played in local Axis operations following Pearl Harbor is unclear, they
were disarmed and interned by the Japanese after Italy surrendered in 1943.

Which of course leads me to one of those really neat "what-if" scenarios.
What if the Italians had chosen to resist the Japanese in 1943?  A few
detachments of crack Marines, a company of Carabinieri backed up with
some Lancia 1ZM armoured cars at Tientsin, two gunboats (LEPANTO and
ERMANNO CARLOTTO) at Shanghai, the crew of the passenger ship CONTE
VERDE, a few submarines, the colonial sloop ERITREA (well, it was at sea
at the time and actually made it to Ceylon to surrender to the Brits, but
if it had been in harbor, THERE'S an energetic crew).  Hey, we off the
wall wargamers dream of that sort of engagement.  Mannlichers & Berettas
against Arisakas & Nambus.  The Italians heading for the hills & joining
up with Chinese guerrilla bands.  Ah, an imagination's a tempting thing....

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 9 Nov 1994 to 10 Nov 1994
************************************************