Subject: WWII-L Digest - 21 Nov 1994 to 22 Nov 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 00:00:22 -0500

There are 39 messages totalling 1262 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Enola Gay Again
  2. Generation Gap/Hiroshima
  3. ENOLA GAY (2)
  4. WEAP: BB-39 Arizona (2)
  5. Adm Kidd; was BB-39 Arizona
  6. INF: USN Chronology 11-22-94
  7. INF: 50 Years Ago - 23-NOV-1944
  8. query:how to define WWII (4)
  9. NAZI (2)
 10. bombers in WWII
 11. HIST: Patch HS WWW Pages
 12. WEAP:  BB-63 USS Missouri (2)
 13. 50TH: HELPING THE YOUNG UNDERSTAND HIROSHIMA (2)
 14. Waffen-SS (3)
 15. [NOST] Naval Aviation Museum - Pensacola, FL.
 16. WWII women/Resistance (2)
 17. WEAP: Montana Class (Was: BB-63 USS Missouri)
 18. ACES: (2)
 19. MEDIA:Tokyo Documents (2)
 20. ACES: Bio of an Italian Ace
 21. "Tatra" Armoured Cars (Hungarian Army)
 22. [INF] USAAF 23 NOV 44
 23. QUERY:HOW TO DEFIN
 24. 50TH: HELPING THE YOUN
 25. war fiction and the "armed forces library"
 26. Help!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 00:16:42 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Again

Dear William,

In the interest of fairness, I have to suggest you might check out
Gar Alperovitz' ATOMIC DIPLOMACY to get a documented account of the             other side of the story,

By the way, I was in Washington over the weekend, and if you want to
see what might have happened to the Enola Gay exhibit, take a look
at the Science in American Life exhibition (a word I use with due care)
at the Museum of American History. I'll bet you didn't realize that,
among the products of WWII, atomic energy has had a greater impact
on the life of the average American than, say, antibiotics. All an
excuse to show the "Hiroshima Pictures" one more time; they are
getting to be like another political group's manipulation of another
set of pictures ("Show them the little hands and feet.")

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 21 Nov 1994 22:36:20 PST
From:    Jim Brady <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Generation Gap/Hiroshima

>The WW-II'ers are getting a bum rap. And it's comming from their children's
>generation which makes it the unkindest cut of all.
>

[ generational psychoanalysis and moral condemnations deleted ]

Steven,

  Your post raises a few issues:

  1. I don't think you'll find the universiality you presume in parent/child
relations between WWII vets and their children. From just those I know and
have heard of, there is the same mix as always of doting, harsh and every
description in between, and same for kids ranging from respectful to
resentful.

     In fact, you'll see those disrespectful children you're referring to
write in here from time to time to learn more about their fathers'
experiences or to cook up some surprise for some important anniversary. I
suspect they represent the majority of sentiment out there.

 2. Some of those same children fought the Viet Nam war; 58,000 of them died
doing it. And even the very many who were morally opposed to the war did not
necessarily pursue it as an affront to their parents, though they may have
argued bitterly over Viet Nam. You're melding the general anti-establishment
tone of the times into something personal. You may be mistaking the natural
rebellion all teenagers go through as being somehow anti-WWII vet, and though
those times were indeed very confusing for all, I'm bending over backwards to
 see your blast as an honest overstatement.

 3. To say that someone chose not to have children because he had three ships
shot out from under him is downright quizzical: are you saying he forsaw that
there would come a time when his own children would not respect his
sacrifices, so therefore, twenty years in advance, chose not to have them?
That seems to be your message.

-- Jim Brady

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 00:33:14 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ENOLA GAY

Dear Mike,

Are you suggesting that the "repressive police state" in South Korea
(after a major rebellion in 1946 and "peasant revolts,,,,which matured
into a serious guerilla war from `48-50") was imposed on a democratic
and enlightened KPR? Or that those uprisings in the south were an
outpouring of passion for the saintly benificence of Kim Il Sung?
Where exactly was this valiant patriot while tens, if not hundreds              of thousands, of his countrymen died at the hands of the Japanese?
How did he come to Korea? And why did so many of his loyal children
vote "south" with their feet when the had the chance in 1950?

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 21 Nov 1994 21:18:09 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: BB-39 Arizona

I just checked *0755 The Heroes of Pearl Harbor* , a book that lists all
Pearl Harbor medal and citation winners and saw no mention of Russ Lott.

****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       [email-masked]
Cultural Resource Manager
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS       (808) 422-2771  extension 130
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

On Mon, 21 Nov 1994, Robert J. Granvin wrote:

snip
>
> We have had Russ Lott at our airshow a few times during the past years.
> He was onboard the Arizona when it was destroyed.  He points out that

snip

> In any case, Russ was a forward gun controller and on the fore mast
that
> everyone sees collapsed in the last picture(s) of the Arizona.  He was
> wounded in the action, but did not get his Purple Heart until 1993.  I
> don't believe he received any other commendation, but I haven't read the
> interview for a couple of years... :-)
>
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 21 Nov 1994 21:37:14 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Adm Kidd; was BB-39 Arizona

Regarding the CMOH for Adm Kidd, I'm "stealing" from Paul Stillwell's
book Battleship Arizona.

LtCmdr Fuqua, Adm Kidd and Capt Van Valkenburgh (co of the ship) all got
CMOH.  Kidd's and Van Valkenburgh were  posthumously.

Kidd was the first US Navy flag officer killed in action in WWII and one
of only ablut half a dozen during the entire war.

One may spculate that the awards to Kidd and Van Valkenburgh constituted,
perhaps, an attempt to find heroes in what had been a tru catastrophe.
Van Valkenburgh was on the bridge of the Arizona at the time of the big
magazine explosion; Kidd was nearby.  Some reports indicate that Kidd
stopped to help man a machine gun on the way to his battle station, but
that is unlikely.  The .50 cal machineguns were in the birdbath gun
platform atop the mainmast, on the side of the smokestack, and on a
platform just under the foretop.  Note of those locations was in a direct
line from the admiral's quarters in the stern to the bridge.  He
pprobabley wouldn't have had time to climb up to any of the three
stations and still reach  his battle station since ther was only about
fifteen minutes at the most between the first alarm and the big explosion.

All this is not to say that Kidd and Van Valkenburgh did not act
heroically.  They may well have, but the witnesses to their actions were
all killed-with the exception of Ensign Douglas Hein.  His after action
statement mentioned Van Valkenburgh but did not report on any specific
act of heroism.

****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       [email-masked]
Cultural Resource Manager
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS       (808) 422-2771  extension 130
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 04:00:14 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 11-22-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
11/22 Wed. Aircraft from carrier group (Rear Adm. R. E. Davison)
           bomb enemy air facilities on Yap Island, Caroline
           Islands.
            Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             Transport NO. 151, by submarine BESUGO (SS-321),
              South China Sea,
              11 d. 22'N., 119 d. 07'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: Larry Jewell <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 04:39:50 -0800
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 23-NOV-1944

On 23-NOV-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - At the north end of the front, the German 15th Army
withdraws deeper into Holland. In the US 9th Army sector, the advances of
the 9th Armoured Division and 29th Division towards Merzenhausen and
Bournheim provokes a German counter-attack. In the US 7th Army sector, the
French 2nd Division enters Strasbourg. The 3rd Division (VI Corps) reaches
Saulxures and Saales and along with the 100th Division attacks St Blaise.

Eastern Front - The Russians capture Tokay in northern Hungary. The last
German resistance on Saaremaa Island is crushed by the Leningrad Front. The
remaining heavy ships of the German Navy, the Lutzow, Admiral Scheer and
Prinz Eugen, cover the evacuation of the 5,000 remaining German troops.

Philippines (Leyte) - The American positions south of Limon are
consolidated.

The Homefront
-------------
Telephone Strike Ends - The Ohio Federation of Telephone Workers have
called off their week-old strike in Dayton, Ohio. Sympathetic walkouts in
other Ohio cities, Washington and in Detroit also end.

College Football - Missouri 28, Kansas 0; Tulsa 33, Arkansas 2; Wake Forest
19, South Carolina 13.

Army & Navy
-----------
Eisenhower Acts In Cigarette Shortage - Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower has
ordered military police to halt the illegal sale of cigarettes. American
cigarettes are being sold by service men in Paris on the black market for
$2.75 a pack. Violators will be subject to court martial.

Change In Command - Admiral Royal Eason Ingersoll, after serving almost
three years as Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Fleet, has become the new
commander of the Western Sea Frontier.  The new CINCLANT is four-star
Admiral Jonas Howard Ingram.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "Facts On File Yearbook 1944,
Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica and "Time" magazine.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis     [email-masked]
Cary, N.C.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 08:10:57 -0500
From:    Michael Andrew Turton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ENOLA GAY

>Are you suggesting that the "repressive police state" in South Korea
>(after a major rebellion in 1946 and "peasant revolts,,,,which matured
>into a serious guerilla war from `48-50") was imposed on a democratic
>and enlightened KPR? Or that those uprisings in the south were an
>outpouring of passion for the saintly benificence of Kim Il Sung?
>Where exactly was this valiant patriot while tens, if not hundreds
>of thousands, of his countrymen died at the hands of the Japanese?
>How did he come to Korea? And why did so many of his loyal children
>vote "south" with their feet when the had the chance in 1950?

Let's take these points one at a time. The KPR was set up after a convention
in early September in which delegates from all over Korea met.  It tried
to include prominent Koreas from across the political spectrum.  Dominated
by the Left though it was, it is clear that it was in fact more democratoc
and enlightened than its successor.
The uprisings in the South continued throughout the war.  It is striking
that the South was never able to generate any sympathy in the North.
while highly committed guerillas carried on a savage war in the South
without any real material support from the North.  Clearly southern
peasants, the majority poor exploited peasant farmers, believed that
communism had something going for it.  That they were wrong is clear
from hindsight.
My understanding is that Kim Il Sung was a guerilla leader who began
armed resistance after Japan set up the puppet state of Manchuko.  Whether
Kim who lead the North is the 'same' Kim who fought the Japanese is
immaterial to the fact that people respected the name and achievements
of the man.  Rhee was of course even more famous and respected as an
anti-colonialist.
"Voting with the feet' is more complex than it appears too.  The safest
place in any air war is behind the lines of the side doing the bombing.
Keep in mind that the bombing attacks, using jellied gasoline and incin-
dieries, were genocidal in INTENT.  The Air Force dropped 175 tons of
delayed-action bombs on Pyongyang in one raid (in addition to normal
explosives) just to cause maximum casualties among rescuers.  When the
South took Seoul tens of thousands fled in all directions, just to get
away from the fighting.  Many fled the North to get away from the Chinese
who were an unknown quantity.  Finally, the destruction of food stocks,
buildings, animals and infrastructure in the North meant that often the
only place to get any food was the South.  Moreover, ROK troops had a
deliberate policy of creating refugees to increase the head count and to
make looting easier.  The refugee problem was complex, of multiple causes
and went in both directions.  It was not mere 'voting with the feet'

The Korean War is sadly more complex and more compromising than simple
thoughtless anti-communism can make out.  From the point of view of
Koreans in 1950 Kim was as good a bet as Rhee -- and maybe better.  The
stubborn existence of guerillas in the South indicates that they enjoyed
widespread local support.

No one in 1950 could have known that the North would grow more repressive
while the South would finally begin to make strides toward democracy in
the 1980s.  Throughout the fifties that lack of economic growth in the
ROK compared to the North was embarassing.  It was until the 1960s that
economic growth in the South overtook that of the North as the North
entered the long slow stagnation of planned economies.

Much of what we learned in school about the Cold War was simple-minded
pap, and much of what is popular knowledge about the Korean War comes
out of that.  It is not that we were wrong in our decision to prevent
Communism from swallowing all of Korea.  It is that the decision was
taken in the light of events and policies whose outcomes and effects
were complex and far-reaching.  The troubling behaviors of Korea were
repeated in Vietnam, only this time the public slowly became aware of
them.  Clearly the Korean conflict could have taught us much, had anyone
been willing to listen.

Well, time to get off the soapbox.:)
Mike Turton
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 08:49:28 -0500
From:    Peter Smith <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: query:how to define WWII

On Mon 21 Nov 1994 10:56:28 -0600 Drew Halevy <[email-masked]> said:
> I am currently taking a European Intellectual History class, and the idea
> came up that WWII could be looked at as the second half of WWI (and
> perhaps even before) and the would could speak of the period 1895-1945 as
> the 50 year war, just as we speak of the Thirty Years War. In both,
> combat was not a constant, and there were even brief periods of peace
> between the major campaigns. In both, the war was a battle for control
> and over ideas. An interesting theory-What do all of you think-Drew

Interesting that you should turn to the Thirty Years War for a parallel to
the period ending with WW-II.  If we hypothesize that the proximate cause
of WW-I and the European part of WW-II was German expansionism, then we need
to go back at least to the Franco-Prussian War and perhaps to the emergence
of said German state in the prior decade.  And that, I think, leads to the
difference between the the two periods.

The Thirty Years War was about the Reformation and the rejection of the
notion of an all-encompassing Christendom in favor of the nation-state.
The unification of Germany and its rise to power was played out in a
period where the nation-states were accepted fact, and their reletive rise
and fall was viewed as a Darwinian process.

Here's one for you and your class.  Why didn't a unified Germany emerge
sooner, say after Frederick the Great of Prussia's successes in the mid-
18th century?  Maybe it needed someone of Bismark's great and diverse
abilities to play midwife.  But, it has also been argued that the central
German states were still recovering from the devastation of the Thirty
Years War a century after it was fought.  The economic disruption and
depopulation of 1618-1648 has been compared to the Black Death.

Have fun in your class.

--
Peter Smith -- [email-masked]
Data General Corp., Westboro, Massachusetts  (for whom I do not speak)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 08:04:19 -0600
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: BB-39 Arizona

In message <[email-masked]> World War II Discussion List
writes:
> I just checked *0755 The Heroes of Pearl Harbor* , a book that lists all
> Pearl Harbor medal and citation winners and saw no mention of Russ Lott.

What's the copyright date on the book?

I've got the newspaper clippings of the award ceremony (buried somewhere)
which was held in Fort Dodge, Iowa -- his current home town.  I can't remember
when the award was granted -- possibly '92, but I believe he physically
received it in early '93.

Is it possible that when the award finally came that it wasn't properly
linked to Pearl Harbor?

> ****************************************************************************
> Jim Adams                       [email-masked]
> Cultural Resource Manager
> USS Arizona Memorial, NPS       (808) 422-2771  extension 130
> 1 Arizona Memorial Place
> Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
> ****************************************************************************
>
> On Mon, 21 Nov 1994, Robert J. Granvin wrote:
>
> snip
> >
> > We have had Russ Lott at our airshow a few times during the past years.
> > He was onboard the Arizona when it was destroyed.  He points out that
>
> snip
>
> > In any case, Russ was a forward gun controller and on the fore mast
> that
> > everyone sees collapsed in the last picture(s) of the Arizona.  He was
> > wounded in the action, but did not get his Purple Heart until 1993.  I
> > don't believe he received any other commendation, but I haven't read the
> > interview for a couple of years... :-)

--
Robert J. Granvin
Southern Minnesota Wing Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 09:46:51 -0500
From:    Pulp-Fiction <[email-masked]>
Subject: NAZI

Hello I am a stranger to this bar, and I say "Respect Brothers and Sisters'
I ask that you forgivness my lack of experience and tact, but ask that
you only mail me, on NAZI germany, esp on the role of the SS in the East,
and Operation Barabbarosa.
Thankyou

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 10:11:40 -0500
From:    chris garcia <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: bombers in WWII

A good book to read on this- if you can find it- would be Martin Caidens's
"Black Thursday", a detaile account of the Sweinfort raid.  Good, because
he explains in great detail the literal ups and downs of flying a B-17.
The B-17 is a heavy, awkward craft all by itself, but the no word for it
when you're flying ina formation of B-17's.  You have a powerful vortex of
prop wash coming off the engines of every plane around you, as well as a
vortex coming off the wing tips.  Flying a four engined bomber in a huge
close defensive formation of bombers exposes you to turbulence comparable
to flying through a thunderstorm.  And you have have to do this for 6-8
hours!  B-17 pilots devloped muscles they never knew they had trying to
constantly wrestle these beasts into position and keep them there.  A
bomber slipping out of postion could drift into another bomber and destroy
both of them.  It became a Luftwaffe tactic to drop bombs from overhead
into bomber formations just to try to cause this panic reaction that could
make a big pile up in the sky.

On Mon, 21 Nov 1994, Drew Halevy wrote:

> I have spent some time recently watching Wings and such programs and I
> have noticed something when they show American bombers (I think B-17)
> flying in formation. They seem to be osolating up and down (perhaps up
> and down more than 50 or 60 feet at a time) as they fly along. Was this
> normal? (did it happen all the time) I would guess that along with the
> regular problems associated with flying (cold, enemy fire) that flying
> like that could prove very tiring over the space of three or four hours.
> Just wondering-Drew
>
> Drew Philip Halevy      | I am become death
> Grad Student            | The Shatterer of worlds
> Department of History   | Waiting that hour
> University of Arkansas  | That ripens to their doom
> [email-masked]   | Trinity-July 1945
>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 10:27:55 -0500
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: HIST: Patch HS WWW Pages

For a couple of weeks now, I have been unable to access the "D-Day: The
World Remembers" WWW exhibit from Patch HS in Germany. Has anyone else tried
to access this site lately?

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 12:18:31 CCS
From:    Jorge Merino <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP:  BB-63 USS Missouri

> Yes, there were two other Iowa Class BB's, the Illinois (BB-65) and
> the Kentucky (BB-66).

This may have been discussed before, but was any of the five(?) Montana
class BB's laid down? I think all of them were already named.

Jorge Merino

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 17:27:00 +0100
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: 50TH: HELPING THE YOUNG UNDERSTAND HIROSHIMA

  In view of some of the reactions to my posting regarding informing the young
about Hiroshima, perhaps I should have made it clear that I was not talking
about all of the 60s generation but only those who have chosen to make a career
out of revisionism for revisionisms sake and out of what has come to be
known as political correctness.
  I had hoped that the discussion would focus on my comments about the
importance of using the anniversaries to inform the public about Iwo Jima and
Okinawa, in order to help it understand why Truman decided to use the atomic
bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 11:42:57 -0500
From:    HM3 Alan E Scott <[email-masked]>
Subject: Waffen-SS

Could somebody fill me in with any information about Waffen-SS
units? I am aware that units were made up from certain "suitably"
countries, but as the demands for war increase they had to be more
liberal with who they recruited. A friend told me that a SS unit was
formed using a group of Indian POW's captured while fighting for the British.
Does anybody know if this is indeed true and if it is true, did they fight?

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 18:21:37 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: query:how to define WWII

On Mon, 21 Nov 1994, Henry Sirotin wrote:

> I think many historians have accepted this idea, although I'm not sure
> if it would be a majority. The idea is that the period 1919-1939 was
> merely recovery from the exhaustion of 1914-1918, with the issues of
> the First WW still unsettled. Personally, I think it is a very valid
> notion.

If you consider WWII to be an extension of WWI, the you should probably
see WWI as an extension of the Franco-Prussian war of 1870: The gap is
slightly larger, but WWI was felt by many to be the consequence of the
1870 war --- especially the French, who wanted to take the Elzas/Alsace
region back that they had lost in 1870. The theme of the three wars is
the same, i.e. the rise of Germany to become a world power.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 11:34:27 -0600
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 50TH: HELPING THE YOUNG UNDERSTAND HIROSHIMA

>   In view of some of the reactions to my posting regarding informing the young
> about Hiroshima, perhaps I should have made it clear that I was not talking
> about all of the 60s generation but only those who have chosen to make a career
> out of revisionism for revisionisms sake and out of what has come to be
> known as political correctness.

Some of us knew... We just picked on ya.  :-)

I once heard someone say that political correctness, when it began, was
not a bad thing -- there are terms that are/were commonly used that were
truly offensive and demeaning.  But the effort went way beyond sensible.
But then again, the entire world is just a collection of victims, so... :-)

>   I had hoped that the discussion would focus on my comments about the
> importance of using the anniversaries to inform the public about Iwo Jima and
> Okinawa, in order to help it understand why Truman decided to use the atomic
> bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I agree.  I'd like to see much more on this.  My primary focus is on the
media and getting their support to present the history and facts as they
were.  Unfortunately, as much as I keep working towards what I feel is only
a minimum acceptable response, I also firmly believe that Iwo and Okinawa
will likely be mostly ignored.

In looking back, nearly all of the WWII history was ignored or glossed over
by the media at large until D-Day.  Then there was a couple of days of fair
to mediocre coverage (focusing very little on remembrance).  I expect that
the next events to be noted will be VE Day and then VJ Day (probably the
latter more than the former, though I could be wrong on that...)

I have a fear that the campaigns in between D-DAY and VJ Day may get mostly
glossed over yet again.

--
\\ Robert J. Granvin                                 User Services Specialist
// School of Statistics - University of Minnesota            [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 18:40:58 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [NOST] Naval Aviation Museum - Pensacola, FL.

On Mon, 21 Nov 1994, Robert Hohlt wrote:

> TDN twin engined Drone: (I am not sure what the actual model number of this
> is) but the exhibit stated that these drones were used at Rabaul and
> Bouganville.  They were not Kamikaze drones that crashed into Japanese
> ships but were radio controlled bombers and had a TV camera in the nose.
> They were controlled by pilots flying in Hellcats or TBFs.
> This surprised me as I didn't think TV was that far advanced in 1943 - 1944.

The TDN / TD2N / TDR / TD2R / TD3N / TD3R series of drones were developed
by the Naval Aircraft Factory and built in series by Interstate. The USAF
also had some, named BQ-4. There was an article about them in the French
magazine 'Le Fana de l'Aviation', September 1993.

The drones were all small twin-engined aircraft; the TDR was powered by
two 220hp Lyconing O-453-2 engines. They had fixed landing gear, and a
cockpit was provided for ferry flights. For the attack they were
controlled by a camera in the nose; they could carry a 2000lb torpedo or a
bomb. Some were used in 1944, but their value was certainly doubtful, for
their low top speed of 225mph made them too vulnerable. Later developments
had more powerful engines.  Far more advanced drones were already under
development, mainly the JB 'jet bomb' and GB 'glide bomb' series for the
USAF, and the TDR series faded away.

Camera guidance was relatively far advanced at the time, and used in many
WWII drones, ranging from the BQ-8, a converted B-24 bomber, to the small
German Henschel Hs 293D missile. For most purposes, camera guidance is not
very useful: the controller might get disoriented, and the drone
controller aircraft --- usually large and vulnerable --- has to stay
nearby.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 12:36:13 -0500
From:    Ellen Shepard <[email-masked]>
Subject: WWII women/Resistance

I am researching the women's resistance involvement in WWII on a global
basis.  I am looking for specific information.  I already have the list of
books. Where are the women survivors from these resistance groups?  I would
like to contact them - anywhere in the world.  Please e-mail me with specific
information.  I thank you.
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 13:00:44 -0500
From:    Pulp-Fiction <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII women/Resistance

IF I GET ANY MORE UNRELATED EMAILS/EDITS FROM YOU I WILL REPORT YOU TO
YOUR COMPUTING ADMIN OFFICE, AND THIS USERLIST.ONLY SEND ME STUFF ON THE
use of the waffan ss in russia

On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Ellen Shepard wrote:

> I am researching the women's resistance involvement in WWII on a global
> basis.  I am looking for specific information.  I already have the list of
> books. Where are the women survivors from these resistance groups?  I would
> like to contact them - anywhere in the world.  Please e-mail me with specific
> information.  I thank you.
> [email-masked]
>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 13:18:30 -0500
From:    Peter Smith <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Montana Class (Was: BB-63 USS Missouri)

On Tue 22 Nov 1994 12:18:31 CCS Jorge Merino <[email-masked]> said:
> This may have been discussed before, but was any of the five(?) Montana
> class BB's laid down? I think all of them were already named.

                        BB-67 Montana
                        BB-68 Ohio
                        BB-69 Maine
                        BB-70 New Hampshire
                        BB-71 Louisiana

I don't have more detailed sources near at hand, but since they were
authorized 19-Jul-40 and not cancelled until 21-Jul-43, I would assume
that significant work had occurred.
--
Peter Smith -- [email-masked]
Data General Corp., Westboro, Massachusetts  (for whom I do not speak)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 12:34:45 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Waffen-SS

Hello, Alan!

I certainly can. What do you need to know in addition to the below?
There were 38 Waffen-SS units designated divisions, but that doesn't
mean that they were in reality. Particularly toward the end of the
war.

> Could somebody fill me in with any information about Waffen-SS
> units? I am aware that units were made up from certain "suitably"
> countries, but as the demands for war increase they had to be more
> liberal with who they recruited.

    Absolutely. In fact, the irony is that membership up to 1941 had
been determined racial acceptability, at the end of the war, the
Waffen-SS had the highest number and percentage of foreigners.

 A
friend told me that a SS unit was
> formed using a group of Indian POW's captured while fighting for the British.
> Does anybody know if this is indeed true and if it is true, did
they fight?

    Yes, to this question. They were employed in the West in France,
particularly in the area of the Invasion of Southern France.

    If you need specific info, please state it in precise terms,
because the nature of your questions could be answered with a volume
of info, and I don't think you want all that.

    There are a number of books in print on this subject, and will be
glad to supply a listing.

    Please advise.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 13:38:57 -0500
From:    Michael Andrew Turton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: query:how to define WWII

        Isn't the idea that WWII is an extension of WWI and the Franco-
Prussian War an outgrowth of H. Mackinder's ideas on the way geography
has influenced European politics?  Seems to me that all three wars, as well
as others, are related to the simple fact that Europe is filled with
expansionist states without "natural" borders.  From the Pyranees to the
Urals only rivers provide some semblance of "natural" borders.  The
key for expansionist states is to get hold of the productive and strategic
area in the center (German states).  Once that area is unified, IMHO,
Europe was doomed to a endless series of wars over who held control of
it and what its boundaries were (assuming that war is more or less an
inevitable outgrowth of political activity).  Peace only came when
Europe was divided by outside powers (Russia and the US) and the plain
was physically divided in East and West Germany.
        The test of this theory is to see what happens once U.S. and
Russian troops are gone from the central plain. In this sense perhaps
European Unity in some kind of Federated state can save Europe from the
problems of the last two centuries.  I wish'em luck

Mike Turton
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 12:45:48 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ACES:

Hello, Mike!

For one thing, I corresponded with him. He is still alive living in
Finland, obviously. Will site you the source for my figures.

More later, and thanks.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 14:05:29 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Waffen-SS

>
> Could somebody fill me in with any information about Waffen-SS
> units? I am aware that units were made up from certain "suitably"
> countries, but as the demands for war increase they had to be more
> liberal with who they recruited. A friend told me that a SS unit was
> formed using a group of Indian POW's captured while fighting for the British.
> Does anybody know if this is indeed true and if it is true, did they fight?

Not only was there an Indian SS unit, there was an ENGLISH SS unit, although
it was even smaller than the Indian one, and was comprised for the most part
of common criminals.

There were also French, Dutch, Belgian, Italian, Bosnian, Danish, and other
foreign SS units.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 14:54:52 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA:Tokyo Documents

>From the DoD Newswire 22 November 1994

:JAPAN REGRETS LATE WAR WARNING

   TOKYO  -- The Foreign Ministry apologized Monday for not
warning that Japan was at war with the United States before
attacking Pearl Harbor.
   A formal notice breaking off talks designed to avert war -- a
virtual declaration of hostilities -- was delivered almost an hour
after the surprise Dec. 7, 1941 attack.
   The apology was made after documents were declassified Sunday
that said the ministry had blundered by not warning Japan's embassy
in Washington that it needed to communicate the declaration
urgently.
   "It is extremely regrettable that such a thing happened, which we
consider inexcusable," ministry spokesman Terusuke Terada said
Monday.
   Previously, the delay in the notice had been blamed only on
clerical mishandling by Washington staffers.
   In one of the documents, Katsuzo Okumura, a senior embassy
counselor at the time, said he was shocked to hear news of the Pearl
Harbor attack on the radio after he finished typing the last page of
the declaration.
   The Japanese killed 2,400 people and destroyed 120 U.S. planes
and 19 ships in the air raid on the U.S. Pacific Fleet.
   President Franklin Roosevelt called it a "date which will live in
infamy," and the United States entered World War II the following
day.
   The ministry says the latest disclosure is the most comprehensive
account and the only existing government record of what happened in
Washington in the final hours before the attack.
   The reports say that even after most of the declaration had been
deciphered, since there was no warning of urgency, all embassy
officials gathered at a Chinese restaurant for a farewell party.
   They returned to work, went home at dawn, and returned to the
office in midmorning to find an urgent notice of the deadline and
the last part of the declaration. Slow typing and last-minute
corrections further delayed the delivery, according to the
documents.
   Masana Horiuchi, a communications officer at the time, wrote that
"all of us had believed we would get a warning telegram so that we
could be prepared for the state of emergency."
   "We had never been given warnings," Keinichiro Kondo, another
diplomat, wrote. Kondo said he received no emergency call that
morning. "When I arrived at the office, I found quite a few incoming
telegrams waiting, including those left unread overnight," he wrote.
In an interview with the Mainichi newspaper, Kondo, now 83, said, "A
typical war declaration is written in a few sentences. Who could
have imagined such a lengthy description of the negotiations in
effect was the one?"

=====

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        [email-masked]
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 15:25:16 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ACES:

Terry:
        I will look forward to receiving the info on Juutalainen.  Thanks,
that made my day (it doesn't take much)

Regards

Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 14:40:10 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: NAZI

To Whom this May Concern!

> Hello I am a stranger to this bar, and I say "Respect Brothers and Sisters'
> I ask that you forgivness my lack of experience and tact, but ask that
> you only mail me, on NAZI germany, esp on the role of the SS in the East,
> and Operation Barabbarosa.

    There are many books out on these topics. One of the best and
certainly the most detailed work I have ever laid hands on, albeit
that is certainly biased, is the minute-by-minute combat history of
the 3rd SS-Totenkopf Division. This 8 volume history is in German,
and is called "Soldaten, Kaempfer, Kameraden: Marsch und Kaempfe der
SS-Totenkopf Division" compiled by the members of this division. I
have yet to see anything like this one anywhere else. If you can
overlook the bias, the facts will speak for themselves. The
combat history of this division was typical of so many which fought
on that front.

    Alan Clarke's "Barbarossa" is also another good one. Will get a
listing together and get back to you.

More later.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 15:35:03 -0400
From:    QUACK <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA:Tokyo Documents

Thank you for a very interesting post.
My primary interests are WWII aviation particularly German,Japanese,Italian,
and Russian manufacturers but after the posts on cryptology I've gotten an
interest in that also.
Could someone tell me some books to read-I know they've been on the list but
trying towade back through the digests to find them is a bit much.

Thanks,  Ron

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 15:49:19 -0500
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ACES: Bio of an Italian Ace

        The following is taken from Squadron's two volume "Regia Aeronautica"
and "Macchi MC.202 in Action".

        Some of the most successful Italian fighter aces of the war served
with 4th Stormo C.T. of the Regia Aeronautica.  4th Stormo consisted of 9th
and 10th Gruppi and saw action over Malta, Libya, and defending Sicily.  The
4th was considered the elite and received the best equipment Italy had to
offer.  The Stormo's first action was over Malta with MC.202 fighters which
proved to be more than a match for the Hurricanes defending the island.  In
Africa, all Italian formations suffered greatly from fuel shortages and
lack of spare parts and consequently saw much less action than their German
counterparts and much of their equipment was destroyed on the ground.  During
the invasion of Sicily, 4th Stormo, now equipped with MC.205s, and 21st
Stormo, equipped with MC.202s, were down to an effective strength of 20
aircraft (again, most of the attrition was caused on the ground) but valiantly
tried to stop the Allied onslaught.

        It was during the defense of Sicily that several Italian aces were
killed.  One who did survive and went on to the end of the war as one of the
two top-scorers was Capitano Adriano Visconti.  He flew MC.202s, MC.205s,
and Bf 109Gs.

        He is credited with 19 victories with the Regia Aeronautica.
Immediately after the Armistice, he led a flight of MC.205Vs to Guidonia
airport near Rome, to escape the German encirclement of Italian airfields
on Sardinia.  His three single-seat MC.205V fighters carried eight
groundcrewmen in addition to the three pilots!  He later commanded the
1st Gruppo Caccia for the Aeronautica Nazionale Republicana (ANR) of
the Republica Sociale Italiana (RSI) in Northern Italy.  He added seven
more kills during 1944.  Because of a high attrition rate and battle
fatigue, 1st Gruppo Caccia experienced a severe decay in morale, which
led to Capitano Visconti being relieved of command late June 1944.  His
successor, Capitano Arrabito, was killed in July and command of the
1st was returned to Capitano Visconti.  When the Germans attempted to
integrate the ANR into the Luftwaffe, 1st Gruppo Caccia burned and
destroyed their aircraft rather than serve under the Germans.  (2nd
Gruppo Caccia drew weapons on their allies and escorted them off of
the airfield!)  Since 1st Gruppo Caccia did not have any aircraft as
a result of these actions, in November 1944, the 1st was sent to
Germany to train with Bf 109Gs and returned to Italy in January 1945
equipped with 54 Bf 109G-10s.  It was during this period that Visconti
was promoted to Maggiore.

        He was killed by left wing Italian partisans in Milan on April 29,
1945.
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
As much as I like Big Joe, I don't want to spend the rest of the war
in a prison camp.  Besides which, I'm a first generation Italian.
They would shoot me as a traitor.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 13:00:45 -0800
From:    Jim Benn <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: query:how to define WWII

Interesting discussion.  It reminds me of a fascinating book I read
several years ago: THE LAST EUROPEAN WAR (don't remember the author); it
discusses the transition from a long term European struggle to a more
global struggle with the entry of the US in 1941.

Jim.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 16:07:53 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: "Tatra" Armoured Cars (Hungarian Army)

Mike, a ways back you asked for help identifying a vehicle depicted in
the section on the Hungarian Army in Madej's most excellent reprint of
SOUTHEASTERN EUROPE ARMED FORCES HANDBOOK (ca 1944)-- I may have the
title slightly off, but you know which one I mean.  The photo's caption
reads "Tatra armoured cars" for some vehicle in Hungarian service.

After some deliberation and cross-checking I've determined that the
vehicle depicted is NOT a Czech-built Tatra, but rather a local design
known as the Csaba 39 Mpcgk.  A small four-wheeled armoured car designed
by the Alvis Straussler firm that also designed scout cars used by the
British, the Csaba 39 Mpcgk was manufactured by the Budapest-based
Manfred Weiss company; production began in 1939 with a total of 171
vehicles delivered to the Hungarians.  Used faceted armour on both the
turret and hull; another identifying trait were radio antennas mounted on
the hull sides & rear (in the Madej manual's photo, those hand rails on
the hull side?  That's them)  While the original design called for a
pair of machineguns to be mounted in the turret (1 Hy & 1 Lt) the Hungarians
upgunned theirs by replacing the heavy MG with a 20mm (hey, it's better'n
nothin')

Other versions of the Alvis Straussler were exported to the Netherlands &
Great Britain, though with only machineguns in their turrets.

SOURCES

ENCYCLOPEDIA OF ARMOURED CARS (Duncan Crow & Robert J. Icks, Chartwell 1976)

AFV Weapons Profile #30: Armoured Cars-- Marmon-Herrington,
                  Alvis-Straussler, Light Reconnaissance (B.T. White,
                  Profile Pubs, 1971)

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 19:42:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 23 NOV 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 23 NOVEMBER 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): In Burma, 12 B-25s bomb a storage
area near Lashio and 8 hit Kutkai and Wanling. 2 B-24s bomb Kowloon Docks in
Hong Kong. 120+ P-40s, P-51s and P-38s hit targets of opportunity throughout
SW and SE China; 32 of the fighter-bombers support ground forces in the
Chefang, China area.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 50+ P-47s support ground
forces in the Pinwe and Bhamo areas; 16 sweep and strafe airfields and many
targets of opportunity from Anisakan to Nawnghkio; 3 hit an ammunition dump
at Man Naung; 21 P-47s sweep roads in the Ye-U area and strafe rail
installations at Kanbalu; 10 B-25s knock out the Tantabin main bridge and
Tangon and Thegyaung bypass bridges, and blast approaches to the Tangon main
bridge and Tantabin bypass bridge. 282 transport sorties are flown to forward
bases and frontline areas.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 722: In Germany, 134 of
155 B-17s and 73 of 78 P-51s make a GH attack on the Norstern benzol
manufacturing plant near Gelsenkirchen and the marshalling yard at Duisburg
with the loss of 1 P-51 (pilot MIA) and 1 P-51 damaged beyond repair; 13 of
13 B-17s fly a screening mission and 10 of 12 P-51s fly a scouting mission.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS

    First Tactical Air Force (Provisional): HQ 42d Bombardment Wing (Medium)
moves from Borgo, Corsica to Dijon, France.

    Ninth Air Force: Unfavorable weather cancels all flights.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Yugoslavia, 81 B-24s attack
road and railroad bridges at or near Zenica, Brod, and Doboj; 30 P-38s bomb
the Doboj marshalling yard, 13 hit Doboj road and rail bridge, and 4 attack,
but miss, a bridge at Maglaj; 13 B-24s and B-17s drop supplies at points in
Yugoslavia.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, bad weather restricts
operations; medium bombers over the Faenza area abort due to overcast, P-47s
hampered by low clouds over the Apennines Mountains, fly only 16 sorties,
against rail lines S of Bologna, but succeed in cutting the lines in 6
places.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 17 B-24s from Guam Island hit shipping at
Chichi Jima and Haha Jima Islands and bomb the town of Okimura in the Bonin
Islands.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: In the Philippine
Islands, B-24s bomb Matina Airfield on Mindanao Island; the 63d and 64th
Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy), 43d Bombardment Group (Heavy), move from Owi,
Schouten Islands to Tacloban, Leyte Island with B-24s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

23/0042Z NOV

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 19:55:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP:  BB-63 USS Missouri

 >This may have been discussed before, but was any of the five(?) Montana
 >class BB's laid down? I think all of them were already named.
 >
 >Jorge Merino

There were five Montana Class ships but none of them ever had a
keel laid down.  All were authorized on 19 Jul 40 and cancelled on
21 Jul 43.  They were to be built at 3 different shipyards, i.e.:

New York Navy Yard, Brooklyn, New York
  Maine (BB-69)
  New Hampshire (BB-70)

Norfolk Navy Yard, Portsmouth, Virginia
  Louisiana (BB-71)

Philadelphia Navy Yard, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
  Montana (BB-67)
  Ohio (BB-68)o

By 1942, the USN realized that airpower had an overwhelming value
so these ships were cancelled and 6 Midway Class aircraft carriers
were ordered, 3 of which were completed.  These 6 ships were:

Ships completed:
  Midway, CVB-41 (ex CV-41)
  Franklin D Roosevlet, CVB-42 (ex Coral Sea, ex CV-42)
  Coral Sea, CVB-43 (ex CV-43)

Ships cancelled
  CVB-44 cancelled 11 Jan 43
  CVB-56 cancelled 28 Mar 45
  CVB-57 cancelled 28 Mar 45

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 22:55:21 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: QUERY:HOW TO DEFIN

As to who caused the war and was WWI actually an extension of the
Franco-Prussian war, I can well remember my European history professor, a
native of Alsace, telling us that the underlying theme in French society
throughout the country was one of "revanche." I have a feeling that the French
looked for any pretext to regain their honor after 1870. This may be a
simplistic way of looking at it, but I think it is true. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 22:55:27 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: 50TH: HELPING THE YOUN

I think that you are absolutely right, John. If the media focuses on the basic
truths about Iwo and Okinawa, the nature of the fighting and of the enemy, and
what it really was like at both places, perhaps the current generation will
understand why there was no hesitation in dropping the bomb to ensure that we
wouldn't have to invade Japan. I repeat what I have said earlier, i.e., anyone
who survived any of the Pacific battles was not so certain he would survive the
landings on Japan. The butcher's bill would be horrendous. There is no doubt in
my mind whatsoever that that is true. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 21:11:33 -0400
From:    Jason Sebeslav <[email-masked]>
Subject: war fiction and the "armed forces library"

I am in the initial stages of a project on pulp war fiction published
during and shortly after the second world war. I'm thinking particularly
of "dime novel" type war adventure books with flashy covers. I have one
book (_Memo to a Firing Squad_) published in 1944 by Dell, and inside the
front cover is a paragraph encouraging readers to send used books on to
local post offices for shipment to troops overseas. I've also heard that
the army "ok'd" a certain number of these kind of books for troop
reading, and I'm quite interested in what criteria may have been used in
judging a book's worth. I'm sure there are some 'propoganda' type arguments
to be made here.

If anyone out there has knowledge or information sources on war
fiction published at this time, or on war-time publishing restrictions of
any kind, I would greatly appreciate your help. Does anyone know about
the "armed forces library"? I'm finding it very difficult to obtain
information from where I am.

Thanks in advance,

Jason

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Nov 1994 20:46:50 -0500
From:    GEORGE BAUER <[email-masked]>
Subject: Help!

Sorry to use this list for this, but the White House Publication is on my
back like a monkey, and I can't get it cancelled.

Does anybody know how to cancell the White House publications that
reside at MIT?

H E L P ! ! !

George Bauer
U.S.A.:  [email-masked]
         [email-masked]

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 21 Nov 1994 to 22 Nov 1994
*************************************************