Subject: WWII-L Digest - 4 Nov 1994 to 5 Nov 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 00:01:29 -0500

There are 13 messages totalling 509 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. INF: USN Chronology 11-05-94
  2. INF: 50 Years Ago - 06-NOV-1944
  3. WEAP: P38  CBI & Other (2)
  4. WEAP: Zero (2)
  5. INF: 50 Years Ago - 05-NOV-1944
  6. MORE ON ALPINI (BURP)
  7. INF: 50 YEARS AGO
  8. GEN: Pearl Harbor
  9. [MEDIA] SeaWings Fri Nov 4, 94.
 10. COLLECTING STUFF: PATCHES + PINS
 11. WEAP : Zero

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Date:    Sat, 5 Nov 1994 04:00:13 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 11-05-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
11/05 Sun. Aircraft from fast carrier task force (Vice Adm. J.
           S. McCain) commence 2-day attack against Japanese
           shipping and air installations on Luzon, P. I.
            United States naval vessel sunk:
             PT-320, by horizontal bomber, Leyte area, P. I.,
              11 d. 11'N.. 125 d. 05'E.
            United States naval vessel damaged:
             carrier LEXINGTON (CV-16), by suicide plane, off
              Luzon, P, I.,
              16 d. 20  N., 123 d. 59'E.
            Japanese naval vessels sunk:
             Heavy cruiser NACHI, by carrier-based aircraft,
              Manila Bay, P. I. Seaplane tender NOTORO, by Army
              aircraft, off Singapore,
              01 d. 18'N., 103 d.  52'E.
             Patrol boat NO. 107, by carrier-based aircraft,
              Manila Bay, P. I.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: Larry Jewell <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

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Date:    Sat, 5 Nov 1994 04:31:55 -0800
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 06-NOV-1944

On 06-NOV-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The II Corps of the Canadian 1st Army captures Middelburg, the
most important town on Walcheren Island, in a surprise attack. In the British
I Corps sector, the Polish 1st Armoured Division begins an offensive against
Moerdijk.

Yugoslavia - Tito's forces enter Monastir. They now control almost the entire
Greece-Yugoslavia border.

Italian Front - The 8th Indian Division captures Monte Monsignano. In the
eastern sector, the Polish II Corps captures Monte Chiodo and Monte Pratello
with the 3rd Division.

Philippines (Leyte) - The X Corps is ordered to advance with the goal of
capturing Ormoc. In the XXIV Corps sector, the 382nd Infantry Regiment, 96th
Division captures Bloody Ridge.

Burma - Troops of the Chinese 22nd Division crosses the Irrawaddy and
overcomes Japanese resistance at Shwegugale.

China - Kunming, capital of the Yunnan province, is captured by the Japanese.

The Homefront
-------------
Final Election Appeals - President Roosevelt, in a final radio appeal from
Hyde Park, N.Y. asks for all citizens to vote tommorrow in a practical
demonstration to the world of American democracy.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "Facts On File Yearbook 1944,
Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.netcom.com in directory /pub/jbd and can
be accessed via the WWW by URL: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/jbd/ww2.html. If you
have difficulty accessing the Netcom FTP server, please keep trying because it
stays very busy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis     [email-masked]
Cary, N.C.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date:    Sat, 5 Nov 1994 11:12:09 EDT
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: P38  CBI & Other

     Arnaud,

        When discussing all of those positive kill ratios that the Army Air
     Force squadrons published, you've got to keep four things in mind:

        1.  The intelligence units that approved the Kill V/S Probable V/S
     Damaged claims were generally pretty skeptical guys and a pilot had to
     have some evidence to back up his claim (gun camera, other witnesses
     etc.) before the kill was granted.

        2.  In order to reduce the level of Luftwaffe fighter resistance
     against our bombers, the AAF changed the rules defining a kill, and
     allowed pilots to claim kills for aircraft destroyed on the ground.
     Eventually this was changed back (Luftwaffe bases seemingly being
     heavily defended by AAA) but the claims already granted remained on
     the records.

        3.  The AAF overall did have a positive win/loss ratio against all
     adversaries in WWII.  It's possible that the good luck was spread out
     fairly evenly.

        4.  There was a war on, and you certainly don't want the folks back
     home to think your losing, do you?  I don't have the name at the tip
     of my tongue, but didn't an AAF B-17 pilot get a posthumous CMH for
     sinking a Japanese "Battleship" off the Phillipines in 1941 when in
     fact he had attacked an American submarine which simply dove to escape
     the bombs?  Every army has got to have some heros, even if they make
     them up themselves.

     Please Note:  This is not meant as an attack on the honesty or courage
     of our pilots in WWII.  The statements in 1-3 above are accurate, our
     fliers fought bravely, and did outfight their oponents.  On the other
     hand, POLITICS has always played a hand in how war news is reported to
     the public back home.

     Steve New

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Date:    Sat, 5 Nov 1994 11:36:09 EDT
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Zero

     One anectdote concerning the Zero name that I have seen in several
     sources, but obviously can't confirm:

     The original Army Air Force code name for the Zero was to be "Hap",
     but it appears that General Arnold was not amused, hence the name was
     changed to "Zeke".

     Steve New

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Date:    Sat, 5 Nov 1994 12:17:35 EST
From:    Cassady Craft <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Zero

Steve, the code name for the A6M3, snub winged Zero was Hamp, is this any
cooincidence?

Cassady Craft
Department of Political Science
University of Georgia
e-mail [email-masked]
or
[email-masked]

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Date:    Sat, 5 Nov 1994 09:40:40 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: 50 Years Ago - 05-NOV-1944

>From:         Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
>Subject:      Re: INF: 50 Years Ago - 05-NOV-1944
>To:           Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>
>
>Why the change in command? Were there any admonishments? How did this
>affect the careers of them both? -Al
>
>>Luzon - Admiral J.S. McCain who has replaced Admiral Marc Mitscher in
>>command of TF 38, leads three task groups in attacks on targets on Luzon
>>and the surrounding waters.
>

Task Force 58 had been at sea for 10 months.  During Sep-Oct it had
flown 17,285 combat sorties.  Mitscher was overdue for a relief.  It
obviously had no affect on Mitscher's career.  McCain would later be
involved in the typhoon and would be relieved of command and die shortly
after the surrender ceremonies.

John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

[email-masked]

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Date:    Sat, 5 Nov 1994 10:13:17 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: P38  CBI & Other

>From:         "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
>Subject:      WEAP: P38  CBI & Other

[deleted]

>
>        4.  There was a war on, and you certainly don't want the folks back
>     home to think your losing, do you?  I don't have the name at the tip
>     of my tongue, but didn't an AAF B-17 pilot get a posthumous CMH for
>     sinking a Japanese "Battleship" off the Phillipines in 1941 when in
>     fact he had attacked an American submarine which simply dove to escape
>     the bombs?  Every army has got to have some heros, even if they make
>     them up themselves.
>

Sounds like Colin Kelly.  He was credited with sinking BB Haruna.  At
Midway, the B17's were initially given credit when in fact not a single
one of their bombs caused any damage.  Larry Jewel posted a newspaper
account of this some time ago.  Airmen were not alone in this.  Surface
ships and subs often claimed more ships sunk than they actually sank.
Read _They Were Expandable_ for instance.  You would not have thought
the Japanese had a surface navy left after that.

>     Please Note:  This is not meant as an attack on the honesty or courage
>     of our pilots in WWII.  The statements in 1-3 above are accurate, our
>     fliers fought bravely, and did outfight their oponents.  On the other
>     hand, POLITICS has always played a hand in how war news is reported to
>     the public back home.
>

Or how about human nature?  Given the confusion, excitement, fear, and
the very real desire to want to see that you sank a ship or shot down a
plane, it seems very resonable to me that honest mistakes were made.

John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

[email-masked]

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Date:    Sat, 5 Nov 1994 17:00:36 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: MORE ON ALPINI (BURP)

Good posts, Mike. I would like to learn about the Italian Marines. When we, the
1st Marine Division, went to China after Okinawa, my outfit was billetted in
the Caserna Ermano Carlotto, which I understood to be an Italian Marine outfit.
Can you confirm? Ben Frank

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Date:    Sat, 5 Nov 1994 17:11:10 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: 50 YEARS AGO

This change of command had nothing to do with the quality of leadership. It was
just that Mitscher needed some rest, I am certain. It was the same thing with
Spruance and Halsey. When Halsy held the command, it was the Third Fleet; when
Spruance had it, it was the Fifth Fleet. I think Morison commented on this by
saying that the drivers just changed; the horses and carriage remained the
same. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 5 Nov 1994 15:35:51 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN: Pearl Harbor

John Ausland asked me to tell more about my father's experiences at Pearl
Harbor.  I'll copy from a story he wrote on Dec. 15, 1941, a week later.

Under the authorship of a professor at the University of Hawaii ther came
from the presses last summer a sereies of articles, in book form, about
the Islands.  The edition was called "Paradise Limited."  After the
Japanese aircraft had raided Pearl Harbor on the morning of December 7 I
stood atop the navy yard signal tower, first gazing upward at the
fascinating over-lapping hues of inland, mountainous Oahu; then I lowered
my eyes to the destruction and death of Pearl Harbor.  Immediately I was
filled with understanding of a book title.

When the last bomb had burst, when our own anti-aircraft fire had ceased
whizzing past the signal tower, I looked out over the harbor at the huge
flames; I felt the thick, oily smoke blackening my face as the island
winds blew it past the tower.  The thought came to me that I must have
been killed and gone straight to hell.

For the thousands who were there and survived, Pearl Harbor will always
be "just yesterday." On the morning of Dec. 7 I had just come on the day
watch at the signal tower and around 7:55 am my teletype machine was
silent.  From the signal bridge outside the shack I heard a signalman
yell, "Air raid! Air raid!"  In a split second I moved out of the shack
onto the bridge for an unobstructed view.  There was an explosion, I saw
an enemy aircraft zooming upward from the hanger on Ford Island, leaving
the hanger damaged and in flames.  Another plane was diving and releasing
a bomb upon the same target.  On the fuselage of the planes was a red
dot, on the wings was an insigna of the  Rising Sun.

I remember distinctly my first thought was, "So this is it. "  Through my
mind ran instantly newsreels I had seen, eye witness stories of
blitzkrieg warfare, countless articles I had read of war torn London,
such reading having taken place while I was propped up with several
pillows in my  own comfortable bed.  I thought of Leland Stow's book, "No
Other Road to Freedom," and as I watched those first bombs fall and
explode I remarked inwardly, "Yes Stowe, now I know what you mean."

Japanese aircraft made a dramatic entrance over Pearl Harbor.  They came
in over Diamond Head, down out of the rising sun in their attempt to turn
a peacefful Sunday into the darkness of a Monday morning.  At the exact
mooment the first bomb was dropped on Pearl Harbor colors were being
made.  While bombs were exploding the American flag went up and I find
consolation in observing that flag is still flying.

On the signal tower the supervisor grabbed the telephone and reported to
the OD in the yard office.  "Pearl is being bombed by enemy aircraft."
>From the bridge I looked toward the east and noted more planes coming in
over Pearl.  The first few aircraft were dive bombers but suddenly
torpedo planes zoomed in, flying no more than twenty-five feet above the
water. I saw the first torpedo launched, I watched it speed to it's
target.  Some fifteen men stood on the bridge of the signal tower, a 160
feet in the air, helpless, unable to do anything except to watch their
own pals die.

With strong firey words one signalman attempted to fight back.  He still
claims fear did not even approach him and I believe he is stating a
truth.  In lound tones he called the Japs everything possible except
gentlemen and then he screamed, "What's going on here?  My god where are
our planes?  Oh______, give me a gun."

Dive bombers and torpedo planes became more numerous.  During the first
two minutes they created a sickening spectacle but none of us on the
tower expected to feel sick more than a few minutes longer.  Not one
around me lost his head, communications went through if possible, but it
was obvious that a bomb would certainly get the tower.

To the men of the United States navy under fire I shall always bow with
respect.  The attack came so suddenly that many of them ran past their
own dead to get to battle stations.  At gun stations they fouoght with
lifeless bodies, torn and ripped, lying at their feet.  In two  minutes
after the raid began our anti-aircraft batteries went into action.  I saw
a Jap plane shot down in flames.  In the newsreel it would have been a
thriller but on this ocassion it gave me no emotional effect.  Another
plane was hit and the fuselage left the wings fluttering in the air.  I
saw a toorpedo plane shot down just before it released it's deadly charge.

To say that I was utterly fearless would be untrue.  In naval warfare it
is a fact that so long as you are returning the enemy's fire you do not
thnk of ffear but from the tower we had nothing to return.  I was
conscious of history being made and I remember saying during the attack,
"Well fellows, you're seeing history."  My eyes darted here and there.  I
moved from one side of the tower to the other but always I had to rush to
my teletype machine.  Every few seconds another station on the circuit
would ask, "Are you there?"  It made me superstituous and I hesitated to
answer and when I did I wrote, "Yes but."  I lighted one cigarette from
the other until my pack was empty.  I asked a signalman if he could spare
a few.  He said, "Here, I may not live to burn these anyhow."

Members of the signal gang who had been off watch left the barracks a
mile away and came up on the tower.  God know, I don't know why they did
it except that where there's flame the fire horse will head there.  Soon
it was discovered that too many men were on the tower.  The CPO ordered
certain men to go below just in case the tower was hit.  One signalman
who had been ordered below turned around and exclaimed, "But you might
need me.  No I won't go below."  He didn't.

In the army's Hickam Field I saw dive bombers come in low and get one of
the hangers.  They straffed planes con the gound, setting them afire.  On
the bridge of the tower a kid of seventeen walked around bewildered.  It
was pitiful when he shook his head and sadly questioned, "I just don't
get it.  Why do they want to bomb our own ships?  It's a drill ain't it?"

The first attaack lasted for about ten or twelve minutes, followed by a
lull of half an hour.  For the second attack our anti-aircraft fire was
much heavier and the invader did not tarry as long as the first time.
During the second attack the high level bombers came over along with the
fighter planes.  Our guns this time were going full force and the air
looked as if it had caught chicken pox.  It was worse than a convention
of studio sound men.  The enemy was trying for ships only a few hundred
yards from the signal tower, our own anti-aircraft fire was passing bby
so close you could almost reach out and touch it.  One ship put a five
inch shell through the power house smoke stack, the top of which iss on a
level with the tower and only two hundred yards away.  A piece of
shrapnel ripped off a two inch board on the top side of the tower.

Ships were calling us by light but the thick, black smoke interferred
with communications.  The supervisor handed me a message to go over the
mux (teletype).  "Get it out if you can.  It's priority."  I began
sending it out, working calmly in spite of the thunder and hell breaking
loose outside.  It was much easier to sit and operate the teletype than
it was to stand outside and watch those bombs coming down, listening to
the bullets whizzing past the tower.

At certain moments wome one would locate a Japanese fighter plane, flying
low, heading right over the tower.  When a man spied it he yelled, "Look
out fellows, here it comes."  All hands fastened their eyes on the plane,
expecting it to be the one, until it had passed over .  Whether a bomb
got the tower or not we were certain the enemy would strafe it.  We had
already seen them machine gun the housing area and strafe men in the water.

The aged battleship Arizona became an inferno and during the second
attack she blew up, a terrifying sight.  Her bow came out of the water,
huge flames spread out, upward for a hundred feet, then she sank.

A man alongside the dock was playing a stream of water on a ship badly
ablaze.  The vessel's magazines exploded and the man tried to hobble away
on one leg.  I saw a bomb explode on one ship and men go fifteen feet in
the air.

One of the unexplainable incidents was the seaman who justs prior to the
attack had gone done in the paint locker of a battleship, leaving the
hatch open.  The paint locker is at least thirty feet below the main
deck.  An explosion buckled the bow of the  ship and this seaman was
blown up through the small open hatch, landed on the main deck and wok up
not  knowing what had happened.  Except for bruises he was unharmed.

Some men perishied in oil fires on the water after either being blown off
the ship or ordereed abandon the vessel.  One CPO was blown into the
water and climbed aboard again.  A second time he was blown off the ship
only to repeat his performance again by way of the anchor bitch.  A Jap
machine gun finally killed him.

Under the fire that Pearl Harbor knew on the morning of December 7 those
men there literally becam brothers.  I saw it, I felt it, all hands did.
I don't think there is a word in any language to describe what I mean.
It's something that can only be felt, and no other emotion in the world
can be felt quite as strongly.  It is the reaaction that occurrs when all
men present are struck with the realization that they all were emitted
from the womb of Mother Destiny and that all are united in a common cause.
******

written by Val Adams, Jr. RM3c, December 15, 1941, Pearl Harbor.

****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       [email-masked]
Cultural Resource Manager
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS       (808) 422-2771  extension 130
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

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Date:    Sat, 5 Nov 1994 19:39:25 CST
From:    Robert Hohlt <[email-masked]>
Subject: [MEDIA] SeaWings Fri Nov 4, 94.

Any of you see SeaWings Friday Night?

This show was Kats over Korea.  Sorry I am straying from WWII but
it did have a lot of the WWII aircraft still flying.

Anyway, it refered to how the B-29s were used during the Korean war.

One part of the show I can't quit thinkiing about.  Apparently there was a
North Korean soldier peddling along on his bicycle and this B-29 that had a
bomb or two to spare followed this poor guy and stayed with him until the
bombs caught up to him.

I can't remember if it said the guy was killed by this attack but if not
I wonder what he has told his grandchildren about the war.  The USA had so
many bombs and planes that they sent them out to hunt for individual soldiers.

I wonder how fast you can peddle with a B-29 dropping bombs behind you?

8^O.

Robert Hohlt, Jr.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 5 Nov 1994 20:58:20 EST
From:    William Lippert <[email-masked]>
Subject: COLLECTING STUFF: PATCHES + PINS

    I am interested in obtaining either replicas or original things (patches,
pins, ribbons, etc.) relating to the Abwehr and/or the SD.  As I am a poor
college student, replicas are probably better as they are probably cheeper.
Still, I'll take what I can get.  Anyone know anything or have anything?
TIA

William Lippert
[email-masked]
The American University

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 5 Nov 1994 22:00:32 EST
From:    "Carl Wernke - [email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP : Zero

 To:  Multiple recipients of list WWII-L([email-masked])

 Steven L. New stated: at Sat, 5 Nov 1994 11:36:09 EDT
 > The Zero name that I have seen in several sources, but obviously can't
 > confirm . . . The original Army Air Force code name for the Zero was
 > to be "Hap."
 _Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War_, by Rene' J. Francillon, page 567,
 indicates : Hamp Mitsubishi A6M3, Navy Type 0 Carrier Fighter Model 32
 ( this aircraft was first coded HAP, then HAMP, and finally ZEKE 32).

 Carl Wernke
 [email-masked]

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End of WWII-L Digest - 4 Nov 1994 to 5 Nov 1994
***********************************************