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Status: O

There are 66 messages totalling 2357 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. QUERY-Molotov's & Hirohito's Deaths (2)
  2. question-- aircraft
  3. nativity (3)
  4. WEAP: Battleships
  5. WEAP: Sturmovik (2)
  6. TRIV: Hair from Concentration Camp victims (4)
  7. TAC: Screening Missions (2)
  8. Rumanian Air Force (Capt CANTACUZENE) (2)
  9. Historical collections (fwd) (2)
 10. [INF] USAAF 2 DEC 44 (2)
 11. 50TH: HELPING THE (3)
 12. MEDIA: Great Escape
 13. Waffen SS
 14. "Fatherland" (2)
 15. 22d in the Hurtgen 2 Dec 1944
 16. Der Vichy Government (2)
 17. Codebreakers...did they work? (3)
 18. Julia Child: okay
 19. Internat'l Historians
 20. Jersey's Underground Hospital
 21. Question: Aircraft (2)
 22. INF: 50 Years Ago - 03-DEC-1944
 23. Movie/Novel "Fatherland"
 24. <No subject given>
 25. TRIV: Hair/skin from Conc. Camp victims (3)
 26. INF: USN Chronology 12-02-94 (2)
 27. HIST: Hollywood
 28. INF: WWII 50th Anniv. Conference
 29. Hollywood at War
 30. Debunking Alperovitz
 31. Cornelius Ryan
 32. query:how to define W
 33. WWII in the Pacific
 34. MEDIA: Comfort Women
 35. HIST: Army Green Books
 36. ADMIN: Introduction to WWII-L
 37. The A-Bombs in Japan
 38. TAC: Snooper missions
 39. MEDIA:COMFORT WOMEN
 40. Re TRIV.  hair
 41. GEN: Retirement during the war
 42. 22d in the Hurtgen Forest 3 Dec 44
 43. 22d Hurtgen Conclusion
 44. 22d Hurtgen Epilogue
 45. To:  Ben Frank

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 16:12:00 EST
From:    SKIP WILDER <PHSP11A@PRODIGY.COM>
Subject: QUERY-Molotov's & Hirohito's Deaths

        For Henry Herz
                Hirohito - Born 4/29/1901
                           Died 1/17/1989

                V. M. Molotov - Born 3/9/1890
                                Died 11/8/1986

 -----------------------------------------------------------
 |    Skip Wilder              |                           |
 |    phsp11a@prodigy.com      |"The road to hell is paved |
 |    FAX (703)528-2103        | with good intentions."    |
 |    McLean, Virginia, U.S.A. |                           |
 -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 15:33:30 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <gregk@STPAUL.LIB.MN.US>
Subject: Re: question-- aircraft

According to "Oil Well Top Cover: A History of Rumanian Military Aviation"
(AIR ENTHUSIAST, Volume 1)

The Rumanians received 69 Bf109E-4s which equipped the escadrila of
Corpul 1 Aerian (i.e. 1st Air Corps) in early 1942.  Following the
Stalingrad debacle they received 70 Bf109G-6 & G-8 models which re-equipped
Escadrilas 45,46,47, & 48 from spring 1943 onwards.  Another 30 Bf109Gs
were assembled locally from German-supplied components, while 16 more
were built at the IAR factory prior to its bombing & subsequent burning
to the ground on 6 May 1944.  Another 35 or so fell into Rumanian hands
as a result of the August 1944 "Bash The Boche in Bucharest" follies.

So you see, Mike, those Bf109Fs in Hungary COULDN'T have been
ex-Rumanian, 'cause they (ah, we) didn't have any.  Of course, SOME
nation's air forces seem to be in need of an excuse for, shall we say,
tepid performance (such as lamenting having "worn-out" aircraft), and,
sadly, some of THOSE nations have a tendency to always "bash" their
innocent neighbors (to say nothing of stealing provinces that start with
a "Trans" and end in "vania", but I digress).

Of course, I've come to expect this sort of action from landlocked
nations who have admirals as regents to a kingless throne.....


                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          gregk@stpaul.lib.mn.us

On Tue, 1 Nov 1994, Mike Yaklich wrote:

> In recent reading (C.A. MacCartney's "October 15th: A History Of Modern Hungary
> 1929-45") I came across references to two types of German-designed aircraft

> one of these pages there is a footnote referring to the Me-109F correctly
> (hey, Greg, they're saying the Hungarian air force got stuck with a batch of
> second-hand Me-109F's that your Rumanian fly-boys had already worn out!!).

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 16:46:02 -0500
From:    Keith Johnson <kjohnson@LIBBY.RBLS.LIB.IL.US>
Subject: nativity

    If anyone's passing through Iowa on their home for the holidays, stop
by in Algona and check out the nativity built by German POW. The
half-life size figures were designed by Eduard Kaib, an NCO in the German
Army. Begun in 1944, it was finished in time for Christmas 1945.

                                                     Keith Johnson

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 17:27:37 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <KILLAR@MARY.FORDHAM.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Battleships

Ok, one thing, I *know* that no Montanas were built, that was
why it was after my main point was that the all guns forward is
a weapons layout that is not optimal and was only done because
of the treaty restrictions.  Someone posted that the Jean Bart was
completed but the Gastagone was not, so the Jean Bart was a better
ship, but that is a wrong assumption because the Jean Bart was just
nearer completion, the same way teh Montanas were better than the Iowas,
but the Iowas were nearing completion so they didn't see the need for
the laying down or completion of the Montanas.  What I was looknig
for was information on the Gastagone (?sp) not on the Montanas.

John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 16:29:43 -0600
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <TWATTS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU>
Subject: WEAP: Sturmovik

Ron-
I enjoyed your message about the Sturmovik and its use by the Soviets.
I remember from the Profile of the aircraft in the "Aircraft in Profile"
series that the Russians sometimes mounted grenade launchers under the
wings to fire backwards to discourage pursuing fighters.  An interesting
idea, that ranks right up there with Fulmar pilots tossing packets of
toilet paper out to discourage pursuing Axis fighters.

Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 16:33:18 -0600
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <TWATTS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU>
Subject: TRIV: Hair from Concentration Camp victims

For some reason, I always thought that hair from concentration camp
inmates was used on submarines to produce the cross-hairs on the
periscope.  Anyone else ever hear that?  [Actually, I guess that the
hair from one person could probably have provided enough for that
purpose.]

Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 16:35:50 -0600
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <TWATTS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU>
Subject: TAC: Screening Missions

Many of Jack McKillop's recent postings on US air operations have listed
screening missions by 8th Air Force B-17's.  Usually they were performed
by about a dozen planes.  Does anyone have any idea what these were?  Could
they have been some kind of ECM operations?

Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 17:10:50 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <gregk@STPAUL.LIB.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Rumanian Air Force (Capt CANTACUZENE)

Mike (and others)

you'd asked whether I had any info on Rumania's top-scoring ace of the
war, Capitanul (or Captain) Constantine Cantacuzene.  So far all I've
been able to discover is a reference in Duggan & Stewart's book on
Ploesti, which I summarise herewith:

Following the Armistice of 23 August 1944, there were no fewer than 1,274
Allied POW's in need of succor in Rumania.  In order to contact the
Western Allies and inform them of the POW's plight, the senior Allied
POW, one Lt-Col James A Gunn was stuffed into the fuselage of a Bf109G
and flown to Allied lines at Foggia, Italy by one Captain Constantine
Cantacuzene.  Gunn convinced the Allies to fly support into Bucharest,
and the first overflight to the city was led by Cantacuzene himself,
piloting a P-51 Mustang-- no minor act of heroics here, since Cantacuzene
had no prior experience with that aircraft (except maybe in dogfights
over Rumania).

On a related note, there is/was a Princess Despina Cantacuzene (obviously
a relative, but whether we're talking an aunt, sister, wife, cousin,
mother, or whatever I don't know) who was a very (and I mean VERY) rabid
Iron Guardist; it was at Princess Despina's abode that a squad of diehard
Iron Guardists took their famous bible & revolver oath to assassinate
Antonescu during the January 1941 Guardist revolt.  Maybe Constantine
took to the air to avoid politics......

I'll continue to dig around for more bio info-- other books dealing with
the Allied airmen POWs in Rumania might have something, or if someone out
there has access to an ALMANACH DE GOTHA of European titled families we
might be able to clear up Despina's & Constantine's relations.

Oh, I seem to recall he was also a cousin to Princess Caradja, another
Rumanian lady who worked with orphans & POWs.  Hey, if nothing else,
Constantine's GOTTA be the FIRST Rumanian pilot to fly a P-51.....


                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          gregk@stpaul.lib.mn.us

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 18:21:45 -0500
From:    David Rising <drising@ACS.BU.EDU>
Subject: Historical collections (fwd)

Got this off the News library list. Figured some of y'all may be able to
help. Cheers,
David Rising
BTW, send replies to address below, not me or WWII-L

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 11:21:19 -0500
From: Barbara Semonche <semonch@gibbs.oit.unc.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <newslib@gibbs.oit.unc.edu>
Subject: Historical collections

To all:
        The UNC-CH School of Journalism and Mass Communications is
searching for access to historical collections during the WW II period.
Our School is planning a special two-day seminar (April '95) on journalists'
(writers, photojournalists, editors, columnists, broadcasters and the
like) work during the Second World War. Our seminar planning committee
is looking for materials we can arrange in a multimedia display, such as
radio broadcasts, news reels, newspaper front pages and photo essays. I've
contacted our historical collections' departments on this campus and they
are searching their catalogs. The emphasis goes beyond North Carolina,
even though Edward R. Murrow is a NC native. Our committee has a small
budget to pay for the loan or reproduction of these materials. If anyone
can be of help with ideas about or locations of these historical
materials, please contact me. As ever, I remain in your debt. Many thanks!

Barbara P. Semonche, Library Director   (List owner: NewsLib, NCSLA)
UNC-CH School of Journalism and Mass Communication
Howell Hall, CB# 3365                   Phone: 919/962-1204, Fax: 962-0620
Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3365              E-mail: semonch@gibbs.oit.unc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 19:54:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 2 DEC 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SATURDAY, 2 DECEMBER 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-26, Douglas Invader
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): 4 B-25s damage several buildings at
Hsenwi, Burma. 39 P-51s, P-40s, and P-38s on armed reconnaissance attack
troops, horses, trucks, railroad yards, shipping, storage facilities, and
road machinery between Yungfengshih and Paoching, China; N of Wanling, from
Wanling to Lashio and in Lashio Burma; in the Chiuchiang area, Nan Tan, and
at Kichang, China.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 40 fighter-bombers fly
close support strikes in the Bhamo battle sector; supply areas, ammunition
dumps, personnel and tank concentrations, and strongholds at Mayathein,
Kwingyi, Nanthe, Hsai-hkao, Hsenwi, Man Hkam, Wuntho, Tedaw, and Old Lashio
are hit by 60+ fighter-bombers; 16 others hit rolling stock on the rail line
between Hsipaw and Lashio and strafe a supply train in Pangkyawng; 10 B-25s
pound several N Burma bridges, knocking out road bridges at Tonglau and Nam
Nung and 2 railroad bridges at Tangon. Transports fly 286 sorties to forward
areas.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
  Mission 734: 455 bombers and 604 fighters make GH attacks on marshalling
yards and fighter bomber attacks; they claim 34-3-7 Luftwaffe aircraft; 11
bombers and 4 fighters are lost:
  1. 135 of 143 B-24s hit the Bingen marshalling yard; 1 others hit a target
of opportunity; they claim 2-1-1 aircraft; 11 B-24s are lost and 4 damaged; 2
airmen are WIA and 102 MIA. Escorting are 97 of 104 P-51s; they claim 4-1-2
aircraft without loss.
  2. 152 B-17s are dispatched to hit the Lutzel marshalling yard at Koblenz
(9) and the Oberlahnstein marshalling yard (125); 6 others hit targets of
opportunity; no losses. Escorting are 158 of 169 P-51s; they claim 6-0-0
aircraft without loss.
  3. 160 B-17s are dispatched to Koblenz but abort the mission due to heavy
clouds. Escorting are 153 of 156 P-51s; they claim 7-0-0 aircraft without
loss.
  4. 133 P-47s and P-51s fly fighter sweeps over the Cologne, Kassel,
Meiningen, Mannheim and Frankfurt area; they claim 15-1-4 aircraft; 3 P-47s
and 1 P-51 are lost (pilots MIA) and 2 P-51s are damaged beyond repair.
  5. 28 of 30 P-51s fly a scouting mission.
  Mission 735: 7 B-17s and 6 B-24s drop leaflets in the Netherlands, France
and Germany during the night.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In Germany, 210 A-20s, A-26s, and
B-26s bomb areas of Saarlautern, Ensdorf, and Fraulautern; fighters escort
the 9th Bombardment Division, fly armed reconnaissance over W Germany
(targets hit include a marshalling yard and bridges), and support the US 1st
Infantry Division at Luchem, 104th Infantry Division at Inden, and 8th
Infantry Division in the Brandenberger Forest-Tiefenbach Creek area.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Around 500 B-17s and B-24s
attack Blechhammer N and S and Odertal, Germany oil refineries; the
Floridsdorf oil refinery at Vienna and the marshalling yard at Strasshof,
Austria; Celldomolk, Hungary marshalling yard; and Medvedov, Czechoslovakia
highway bridge, plus scattered targets of opportunity in C and E Europe;
fighters fly escort and carry out reconnaissance missions.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, medium bombers hit
several bridges in N and NE Italy, scoring effective hits on 2 bridges across
the Piave and Brenta Rivers and 4 on the Brenner line; fighters and fighter-
bombers attack communications in the Po Valley and support US Fifth Army
forces in the battle area S of Bologna; on the night of 1/2 Dec, A-20s hit
Ghedi Airfield and targets of opportunity in the NC Po Valley and trains on
the Brenner line; HQ 350th Fighter Group and the 347th Fighter Squadron move
from Tarquinia to Pisa with P-47s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 23 B-24s from Guam Island hit Iwo Jima Island.
During the night of 2/3 Dec 3 B-24s on snooper missions from Saipan Island,
Mariana Islands and Guam Island bomb an airfield on Iwo Jima.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: In the Philippine
Islands, B-24s hit Dumaguete Airfield on Negros Island and Matina and
Cagayan Airfields on Mindanao Island. B-24s and B-25s attack Borebore
Airfield and Kendari on Celebes Island. Fighter-bombers in the C Philippine
Islands and Mindanao Island support ground forces and hit supplies,
communications, and a variety of targets of opportunity. B-25s bomb Namlea
Airfield on Buru Island and attack shipping off Ceram Island. The 19th
Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 22d Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves from
Leyte Island to Angaur Island with B-24s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

02/0054Z DEC

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 07:37:00 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <ben.frank@HIS.COM>
Subject: Re: 50TH: HELPING THE

It's a lot more than that, Ken. Alperovitz and his crew want to downsize the
number of estimated casualties, insist that the dropping of the bomb was a
racist thing, that we didn't give the Japs a chance to surrender as they
wanted, and so on, all revisionist poppycock in the true Dutch meaning of the
word. And to think that they have been having their own merry way teaching
college kids this cant. I grow very angry thinking about it. It is not a matter
of whether "only" 30,000 or 40,000 American casualties would result from the
invasion, but the matter of just one American life being lost because we didn't
drop the bomb. Also, they changers of historical fact seem to overlook the many
Japanese lives which would have been lost had the invasion been mounted. These
individuals seem to want to change the facts to meet their preconceived
conclusions. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 17:22:26 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Great Escape

And the man just after Ogie, who was about to follow him down the tunnel,
but didn't, also lives in Canada.
He is "Mac" Reilley, a good friend of mine, and he lives in Port
Coquitlam, British Columbia. (Lollong in the Arizona sun at the moment).

Regards -- Sidney.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 18:21:19 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Waffen SS

There was a particularly nasty SS outfit composed of Ukranian collaborators
-- the Nightingale Division.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 18:22:21 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: "Fatherland"

No problem. believe what you wish.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 21:28:26 EST
From:    "SGM Robert S. Rush" <rushr@MEADE-EMH1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: 22d in the Hurtgen 2 Dec 1944

The 22d Infantry in the Hurtgen Forest 2 December 1944

Colonel Lanham planned on 2 December to send a task force from the 1st and 3d
Battalions to clear the front of the 2d Battalion and get the 2d forward to tie
in with the 1st.  A German counterattack struck before daylight between Baker
and Item Companies stopped the maneuver before it started.  The Germans attack
immediately penetrated to the rear of Item Company and surrounded its command
post.

At regimental headquarters, word of the attack arrived at 0650 hours.
Initially, Lanham and his operations officer believed the attack presaged
attacks against the regiment's other two battalions.  When asked the status of
the breakthrough, Lanham told Barton,

"The attack was of 250 strength, I Company is dispersed, tanks and K Company
have gone to help. G6 [Barton] asked how much we had on line.  S6 [Lanham] said
only thin line."

For the next three hours, the regiment did everything possible to halt the
breakthrough.  Germans had retaken Hill 382.5, located northeast of Grosshau,
and by 0815 hours, both Majors Goforth and Kemp were reporting Germans
approaching their command posts.  Lanham told them to hang on and fight, help
was on the way.

The 3d Battalion soon turned the enemy attack to its advantage.  Now it was the
Americans who were in the defensive positions.  King and Love Companies sealed
both flanks of the penetration and the Germans found their routes for
reinforcement and retreat blocked when Major Kemp, the 3d Battalion
Commander, called for artillery concentrations between Gey and the woodline.
To prevent shooting each other, the two American companies used hand grenades,
rifle grenades, and bazookas on the cornered enemy forces.  In the ensuing
fight, sixty Germans either died or surrendered, with only three of the
captured being uninjured.

In the midst of the German counterattack, Lanham's worst fears of a major
attack on his regiment seemed about to be realized.  One of the tank destroyer
units attached to the division reported intercepting a German message
announcing a Panzer division moving west into Lanham's sector.  Lanham ordered
all the roads and tank approaches leading into the regiment's sector mined.
The message was incorrect, but it nonetheless added to Lanham's burden.

General Barton now also realized the problems the regiment was having.  Barton
informed the VII Corps Commander, Collins, of the counterattack in the 22d's
sector and recommended that elements of the 83d Division be sent to relieve the
22d immediately.  At 0945 hours Barton amplified his earlier statement to the
corps commander, explaining that,

".  . . he felt that with the number of replacements and the condition of the
men in the 22d Inf that there was no further attack left in the 22d; that the
noncoms and junior leadership had been completely milked out of them over the
long period they had been in the fight; they had attacked until there was no
attack left in them; replacements are not lacking in `guts' but they are not
trained soldiers as we had before. . . ."

Barton understood that the 22d could not continue its attack because there were
no veteran junior leaders left. Although the regiment remained above 75 percent
strength, he realized the heart of the regiment was gone.  There were few
soldiers left in the squads willing to subordinate their personal survival to
the regiment's mission.  The only thing that kept the units in the regiment
from breaking to the rear were the few remaining veteran leaders.

When Lanham next talked to Barton, Lanham was unaware Barton had already
decided to relieve the 22d.  After Lanham related to Barton the condition of
his regiment, Barton replied, "It will be taken care of."
 In a very brief message, at 1500 hours, Barton communicated to Lanham that,
"You will be getting relieved tomorrow. . . .  You will go to an assembly area
and then . . . take over new positions in the south."  During the afternoon of
2 December, some of the soldiers of Item Company believed lost began
reappearing.  Later in the afternoon the 2d Battalion reached its objective
abreast of the 1st Battalion.  The Germans had pulled back.

The 22d reported 149 casualties, the majority coming from the 2d and 3d
Battalions.  The division personnel officer (G1) was able to replace only one
third of the casualties.

>From Paschendale with Treebursts

Rob Rush

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 18:35:12 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Der Vichy Government

Most of the senior Vichy leaders were tried by the French in quick-time.
Some, like Laval, were executed, others got long prison terms. Of course,
a fairly large number of lower-echelon traitors got away with either light
sentences or no trials.
All in all though, the French were understandably eager to do away with
as many of the top Vichy leaders as possible.
Poland and Czecoslovakia were particularly diligent in tracking down,
trying, and executing collaborators. Norway, too, gave short shrift to
collaborators, executing Norwegian Nazi leader Vidkun Quisling very soon
after war's end.  The creature's name lives on in the term "quisling",
meaning collaborator, or traitor.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 19:46:10 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: "Fatherland"

"Theories" that Heydrich was killed because of the Final Solution, yes.
Facts, no.
REinhard heydrich was assassinated entirelt because of his excesses in
Czekoslovakia. The Czek gobernment-in-exile in Britain wanted him bumped
off in reprisal for his brutality. A team of Czek agents were trained by
the British Special Operations Executive. These men parachuted into their
homeland under the direct orders of the exile Czek government.
There's one excellent account of their mission in, THREE MEN AT DAYBREAK.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 22:57:07 -0500
From:    Oliver Bonham-Carter <ollie@CREIGHTON.EDU>
Subject: Codebreakers...did they work?

How well did the code-breakers work (whether that's Allied or Axis
codebreakers)? Anyone?


-ollie@bluejay.creighton.edu-
 "...So the bartender says "Hey, that's not a DUCK!"

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 00:56:48 -0500
From:    Ellen Shepard <ELShepard@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Julia Child: okay

I have put a request in with "Good Morning America".  Ms. Child is a regular
guest with them.  They have told me that they will get back to me.  Stay
tuned.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 01:03:08 -0500
From:    Ellen Shepard <ELShepard@AOL.COM>
Subject: Internat'l Historians

I am looking to speak (e-mail or regular mail) with historians, American or
international, who specialize in WWII regarding the women's involvement in
WWII, civilian or veteran, allied or axis.
I would greatly appreciate any suggestions from England, Europe, Russia and
Japan.  (all other countries also invited).  Please e-mail me at
ElShepard@AOL.COM.  Thank you.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 1 Dec 1994 22:52:55 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Jersey's Underground Hospital

The Channel Island fortifications, and German hospital there, were
featured extensively in a past issue of AFTER THE BATTLE. Sorry, I do
not remember the date of the issue.
There is some good material on the hospital also in, NILITARY ARCHEOLOGY,
by Terry Gander.

For detailed information, your best bet would be to write to the source:

        CHANNEL ISLANDS OCCUPATION SOCIETY
        "Rangistacy"
        Rue des Sablons,
        Grouville, Jersey, C.I., UK
and/or
        CIOC
        "Gladclift"
        Ruette Braye
        St. Martins, Guernsey, C.I. U.K.

Good hunting.

Regards -- Sidney Allinson.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 07:17:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: TAC: Screening Missions

 >Many of Jack McKillop's recent postings on US air operations have listed
 >screening missions by 8th Air Force B-17's.  Usually they were performed
 >by about a dozen planes.  Does anyone have any idea what these were?  Could
 >they have been some kind of ECM operations?
 >
 >Tim J. Watts
 >Valparaiso University

Tim,

OK Tim, you get the cigar.  I have been waiting to see if anyone was
reading the stuff I put out and I guess your are.

You are absolutely correct in your assumption.  The screening force
was put up to ensure communications on formup and as an ECM force
to foil the Luftwaffe's radar, etc.

Jack McKillop

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 07:31:13 EDT
From:    "Steve L. New" <newst@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Question: Aircraft

     >Of course, I've come to expect this sort of action from landlocked
     >nations who have admirals as regents to a kingless throne.....


     >Glad To Be Of Service!

     >Greg Kelley
     >St. Paul Public Library
     >gregk@stpaul.lib.mn.us



     Yes, but see how much imagination it takes to be Hungarian!

     Steve New

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 04:46:28 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 03-DEC-1944

On 03-DEC-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The XII Corps (British 2nd Army) captures Blerick which is
on the west bank of the Maas opposite Venlo. The entire region west of the
Maas has now been cleared of Germans. The XIII Corps (US 9th Army) reaches
the Rur. The 5th Armoured Division (US 1st Army) reaches Brandenberg. The
95th Division (US 3rd Army) captures a large part of Saarlautern. The 44th
Division (US 7th Army) is being held up near Ratzwiller by strong German
resistance. The 45th Division captures Zinswiller.

Eastern Front - The 2nd Ukraine Front captures Miskolc, northeast of
Budapest.

Italian Front - The British 8th Army begins a new offensive towards Bologna
with the Polish II Corps on the left flank, the V Corps in the center
heading for Santerno and the Canadian I Corps on the right flank following
the Adriatic coast.

Philippines (Leyte) - Fighting is taking place southeast of Limon.

Pacific - Tokyo is bombed again by B-29s from the Marianas.

Burma - The 11th East African Division establishes a bridgehead over the
Chindwin near Kalewa. The 20th Indian Division crosses the Chindwin near
Mawlaik.

China - The Japanese break off its advance towards Kweyang because of a
shortage of reinforcements.

The Homefront
-------------
President's Son Marries - Col. Elliott Roosevelt has married motion picture
actress Faye Emerson in Grand Canyon, Arizona.

Army & Navy
-----------
New Cruiser - The 10,000 ton light cruiser Atlanta has been commissioned at
the Philadelphia Navy Yard.

Mare Island Mutineers - The sentences for the 50 Negro sailors who refused
to load explosives on a Pacific-bound munitions ship have been announced.
They have all been reduced to the lowest rank (apprentice seaman) and given
stiff prison terms. Ten of them got 15 years, 24 got twelve years, eleven
got ten years and five got eight years. Good behavior can cut their terms
down to a third.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "Facts On File Yearbook 1944,
Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica and "Time" magazine.

Copyright 1994 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 19:52:12 +0700
From:    "Peter E. Beal" <bealp@MORAKOT.NECTEC.OR.TH>
Subject: Re: Movie/Novel "Fatherland"

And what about SS/GB by Len Deighton in which Scotland Yard has to work
under the supervision of the victorious Germans.  The is one hilarious
scene in which the hero is pushing a wheelchair containing the aged, if
not senile, King of England down the street and being refused entry into
the upper class clubs which line.

Classic Deighton

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 06:56:41 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: TRIV: Hair from Concentration Camp victims

Hello, Tim!

Sounds apocryphal to me. Never heard of that, and I think you
answered your own question.

Terry

> For some reason, I always thought that hair from concentration camp
> inmates was used on submarines to produce the cross-hairs on the
> periscope.  Anyone else ever hear that?  [Actually, I guess that the
> hair from one person could probably have provided enough for that
> purpose.]
>
> Tim J. Watts
> Valparaiso University
>

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 07:13:28 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: 50TH: HELPING THE

Hello, Ben!

I couldn't agree with you more.

 I grow very angry thinking about it.

    I don't blame you.

 It is not a matter
> of whether "only" 30,000 or 40,000 American casualties would result from the
> invasion, but the matter of just one American life being lost because we didn't
> drop the bomb.

    In essence, this is what Harry Truman said himself in a postwar
interview. In fact, he said that he would not hesitate to make the
same decision again to use the bomb, if he were called on to do so.
The one thing I have always admired about Mr.Truman was his ability
to make a decision and once made, he stuck to it; even during the
MacArthur episode.

 Also, they changers of historical fact seem to overlook the
many
> Japanese lives which would have been lost had the invasion been mounted.

How true. It seems to me that, despite the extraordinarily heavy
casualties we would have sustained, I think the Japanese People would
have been faced with extinction.

 These
> individuals seem to want to change the facts to meet their preconceived
> conclusions.

    Absolutely, and I wonder sometimes, if these people really
believe what they say or themselves have not become victims of their
own propaganda.

    Thanks, Ben.

    All the best.

    Terry

>

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 07:57:44 EDT
From:    "Steve L. New" <newst@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: <No subject given>

     >Oh, I seem to recall he was also a cousin to Princess Caradja,
     >another Rumanian lady who worked with orphans & POWs.  Hey, if
     >nothing else, Constantine's GOTTA be the FIRST Rumanian pilot to fly
     >a P-51.....


     >Glad To Be Of Service!

     >Greg Kelley
     >St. Paul Public Library
     >gregk@stpaul.lib.mn.us

     I thought that Julia Child toured through Rumania in 1941,
     demonstrating the NA-73 and giving test flights and lectures (and
     those precious little sausages).

     Steve New

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 08:42:30 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Re: TRIV: Hair/skin from Conc. Camp victims

I had heard over the years (sources long since forgotten) that hair was
used for paint brushes (no big deal - my father cut my hair and did the
same).

The worst I' heard was that skin was cut off hands to make gloves. :-\

-Al

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 09:04:18 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 12-02-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
12/02 Sat. Four destroyers bombard enemy positions at Palompon
           and northern Ormoc Bay, Leyte, P. I. Another group of
           three destroyers, (Comdr. J. C. Zahm) enters Ormoc
           Bay at night and is engaged by Japanese aircraft,
           destroyers, and shore batteries; action continues
           during the first 2 hours of 3 December.
           Submarine GUNNEL (SS-253) lands supplies and
           evacuates Allied aviators from Palawan, P. I.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 09:52:40 -0500
From:    Mark Rothenberg <MROTHENBERG@CCMAIL.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject: Re: Historical collections (fwd)

Suggest you try (if you haven't already):

Subject Collections, 2 vols.  NY:  R.R. Bowker Co, 1993.
Directory of Special Libraries and Information Centers:  1994, 2 vols.
    Detroit...:  Gale Research, Inc., 1994.

The Department of Defense might be contacted (Public Communications Branch, for
starters, for a list of upcoming reunions and or military unit or (war)ship
veterans' associations (WWII vintage), which you might wish to contact for
names, addresses, tel. no's. of members from North Carolina.

The N.C. State archives and/or state library may well have more information of
direct interest to you.

Perhaps your alumni association(s) could be asked to review their newsletters,
1941-to date for information on veterans, comparing them to current lists of
living members, for whom addresses, tel. nos. might be available.

The American Association for State and Local History publishes a (3 vol.)
Directory of Historical Agencies in North America.  While not comprehensive, it
is arranged by state and internally by "city", and has a classifed index, which
may be of help in identifying local historical societies and government
agencies across North Carolina (and further afield), whose aid you might want
to enlist.

Wanted columns in major N.C. newspapers and perhaps a similar advertisement of
your request ina few WWII-related (or military history-related) periodicals
might also glean more or less rapid (and ongoing) results, that could enrich
your oral and written collections, and provide rich material for your
celebration/commemoration.

Hope at least some of this is of some help.

Mark Rothenberg
Suffolk Cooperative Library System
Bellport, NY
mrothenberg@ccmail.sunysb.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 11:27:21 -0500
From:    Warren Thompson <THOMPSON@ACAD.LVC.EDU>
Subject: HIST: Hollywood

Brian Donleavy (1899-1972): Actor. Was bugler for Pershing in 1916 campaign
against Pancho Villa. In WWI flew in Lafayette Escadrille before US came in.
Played in many WWII action films.

Source: McCombs & Worth. WWII: 4,139 STRANGE AND FASCINATING FACTS.
Wings Books, 1994.

-- Warren Thompson

thompson@acad.lvc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 10:35:14 EST
From:    "Larry W. Jewell" <ljewell@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: INF: WWII 50th Anniv. Conference

Reposted from soc.history.war.misc (please forgive possible redundancy):


        INTERNATINAL CONFERENCE ON TEACHING THE HISTORY OF
             THE SECOND WORLD WAR IN HIGHER EDUCATION
                           INSTITUTIONS


               St. Petersburg, Russia, May 5-9, 1995


Organized and run by:

        Russian State Hydrometeorological Institute (RSHMI), St.
        Petersburg,
        Republic Humanitarian Institute, St. Petersburg,
        St. Petersburg's Branch of Russian Peace Foundation
        Co-sponsored by Lander University, USA

The goals of the conference:
        To examine the experience of those who teach about the war
        in higher education;
        To aid in developing closer ties among educational
        institutions in different countries in the areas of
        teaching a sense of history to young people: and
        To exaamine the most effective ways in which young people
        are tought to consider the causes and cosequences of the
        world-wide tragedy of 1939-1945.

Th econference will open with a plenary session onn  May 5.  On
May 8-9  conference participants will be invited to participate in
celebration the Victory of the Soviet People in the Great Patriotic
War.

The following conference sections are envisaged:

        - Causes of the Second World War
        - The Great patriotic War of the Soviet People, 1941-1945
          (main events and contemporary interpretations)
        - The Western and Pacific fronts (main events and
          contemporary interpretations)
        - The Anti-Hitler Coalition
        - Mass exterminations during the years of the Second World
          War
        - Conclusion of the Second World War
        - The Cold War as one of the consequences of the Second
          World War
        - Major military conflicts after the conclusion of the
          Second World War (Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan)

Participation in the conference is open to all interested persons.
Presentations may be made either in Russian or English.  Abstracts
of the presentations will be published by the organizing
institutions.

Persons desiring to participate in the conference should mail or
fax abstracts (no longer than 1,5 pages double-spaced) not later
than January 15, 1995.  The Registration fee for international
participants is 100 USD.  For international participants desiring
arranged food and lodging the conference will arrange for a
home-stay with an English-speaking family in St. Petersburg for
approximately 35 USD per night.


Potential conference co-sponsors in the United States are now being
solicited.  Any kind of sponsorship will be highly appreciated.
Institutions interested in being co-sponsors may contact Dr. Aron
G. Tannenbaum, Lander University, Greenwood SC 29649, phone:
(803) 229-8403, fax (803) 229-8890 for details.


Please contact Dr. Andrew A. Alimov, Head of Organizing Committee,
RSHMI,
98, Maloohtiskiy prosp., St. Petersburg, 195196, Russia
Fax +7 (812) 221 6090 or
    +7 (812) 221 4132

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 10:44:44 -0600
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <TWATTS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU>
Subject: Hollywood at War

Recent postings dealt with stars and celebrities who participated in the
war effort.  Lo and behold, in the Nov. 14 issue of PUBLISHERS WEEKLY,
there is a review of a new book entitled: WHEN THE STARS WENT TO WAR:
HOLLYWOOD AND WORLD WAR II, by Roy Hoopes.  Due out in January 1995,
it is published by Random House, 416 pages, and costs $25.00.  According
to the reviewer, it identifies those who received legitimate deferments,
those who had strings pulled on their behalf by the studio heads, and
those who joined the armed forces and saw action.  If anyone is interested,
I guess you can find out why John Wayne wasn't in the service.

Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 08:52:52 PST
From:    Henry Herz <herz@C3OT.C3OT.SAIC.COM>
Subject: Re: QUERY-Molotov's & Hirohito's Deaths

In message <9412020516.AA05561@imt.saic.com> World War II Discussion List
writes:
>         For Henry Herz
>                 Hirohito - Born 4/29/1901
>                            Died 1/17/1989
>
>                 V. M. Molotov - Born 3/9/1890
>                                 Died 11/8/1986
>
Skip-

Thanks dude.

-Henry

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 09:02:24 PST
From:    Henry Herz <herz@C3OT.C3OT.SAIC.COM>
Subject: Re: TRIV: Hair from Concentration Camp victims

In message <9412020902.AA08718@imt.saic.com> World War II Discussion List
writes:
> For some reason, I always thought that hair from concentration camp
> inmates was used on submarines to produce the cross-hairs on the
> periscope.  Anyone else ever hear that?  [Actually, I guess that the
> hair from one person could probably have provided enough for that
> purpose.]
>
> Tim J. Watts
> Valparaiso University
>

While it is conceivable that there may have been some incidental practical use
for human hair, the principal purpose of shaving off Jews' hair (and in some
cases forcing them to count them) was to degrade.  I think Nazi hatred and
malice towards Jews and other so-called subhumans should not be mollified or
tempered by even hinting that a practical (and therefore potentially
justifiable) rationale could exist for such behavior.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 12:35:30 -0500
From:    Lee Windsor u <wind6011@MACH1.WLU.CA>
Subject: Debunking Alperovitz

Hello all!

I just thought it might encourage you to know that I had an international
relations history seminar last night and one of the topics for debate was
the decision to drop the bomb.  As you might have guessed, the required
reading was none other than everybody's favorite revisionist, Mr.
Alparovitz.  There were several of us in the class who were well aware of
both sides of the argument, but we held our fire until those less
informed, had established the basis of the "Atomic Diplomacy" thesis.
After several minutes of very tight fire discipline, we began a
co-ordinated intellectual barrage on Alperovitz and the revisionists in
general.  We systematically ripped his thesis to shreds, piece by piece,
including his theory of exaggerated Allied casualties and the notion that
Japan would have surrendered without an invasion or bombing.  By the end
of the class there was no one left unconvinced of the necessity of the
use of the bomb to save lives on all sides.

I hope that cheers everyone up.  Some young people today are learning the
truth.

Semper Fi

Lee

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 11:41:53 -0600
From:    Tony Schuler <SCHULERE@UWSTOUT.EDU>
Subject: Cornelius Ryan

Does anyone know if The Last Battle or A Bridge too far are out of print.
If not where can I obtain copies of them?

Tony Schuler
Schulere@uwstout.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 12:54:14 -0500
From:    Ellen Shepard <ELShepard@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: nativity

I am interested in any other POW stories that took place in the U.S.  I know
that German POW's worked for JR Reynolds in NC and there were POW's, Japanese
and German, working in AZ.  Who knows any specifics?

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 12:50:06 EST
From:    Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: query:how to define W

On Wed, 30 Nov 1994 04:46:00 UTC Edward S. Miller said:
>  Messrs. Gustin, Koester and Turton have debated whether World War II was
>an extension of WWI after an armistice, and indeed that the Franco-Prussian,
>Napoleonic, and even earlier wars may also been part of one long World War.
>  This concept relates only to European history.  How does World War II's
>Pacific-Asiatic theater fit into the hypothesis?

To clarify:  I do *not* believe that the F-P or earlier wars are a part of
one long war.  My somewhat ellided argument raised that possibility as a
kind of logical absurdity.  But I do believe that WWI and WWII are part of
one long war in many/most (perhaps not all) respects, precisely because
of the world-wide aspects of either, including the Pacific theatre.

ken koester
maint2@ers.bitnet

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 13:00:53 EST
From:    Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: WWII in the Pacific

On Wed, 30 Nov 1994 09:54:16 -0500 Michael Andrew Turton said:
>        WWII in the Pacific was related to the problem of Manchuria
>and the exspanionist aims of the three powers Russia, China, and Japan.
>The way I see it, prior to 1644 none of those powers had control
>over the whole area. . . .

<analysis deleted>

I've not seen this position before.  It is somewhat of a contrast to
Barraclough's position in =Towards a Contemporary History= about the
conflict between Russia and the US as Pacific powers.  At the same time,
it amplifies this idea.

ken koester
maint2@ers.bitnet

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 13:20:02 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 12-02-94

2
UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
12/02 Sat. Four destroyers bombard enemy positions at Palompon
           and northern Ormoc Bay, Leyte, P. I. Another group of
           three destroyers, (Comdr. J. C. Zahm) enters Ormoc
           Bay at night and is engaged by Japanese aircraft,
           destroyers, and shore batteries; action continues
           during the first 2 hours of 3 December.
           Submarine GUNNEL (SS-253) lands supplies and
           evacuates Allied aviators from Palawan, P. I.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 12:32:00 CST
From:    Richard Battig <BATT@KSUVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Comfort Women

I find this an interesting topic.  It seems to resemble the holocost and the
camps that were in America.  When it comes to compensation for the crimes and
mistreatment of individuals during this time, are sons and daughters
to be held liable for their fathers crimes?  If this is the case the history
of mistreatment of people during war is an extremely old one, so should all
families be able to receive compensation for the crimes committed to their
forebears?  This postings sugests that the families of the victims should
receive the comensation. My regrets to those that have suffered in the past,
but I will not look for compensation from those that mistreated my family
during the time of war but if you cannot get those directly responcible
drop the case.  It no longer serves the pupose except for greed and vengance.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 10:51:28 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: HIST: Army Green Books

A couple of questions about the Army green books -

1) How many volumes are there and can someone supply me a list of the various
titles?

2) I see where Larry uploaded the D-Day volume to Byrd, are there any other
volumes stored in machine readable form?

3) Did the Navy do any type of similar project? I know about Samuel Eliot
Morison's series of course, but I'm wondering if the Navy had an "official"
series like the green books.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Also, is it just me or is the list rather slow today. I posted my 50 YA
column early this morning and it still hasn't got back to me yet.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 13:45:41 -0500
From:    David Rising <drising@ACS.BU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Der Vichy Government

On Thu, 1 Dec 1994, Sidney Allinson wrote:

> Poland and Czecoslovakia were particularly diligent in tracking down,
> trying, and executing collaborators. Norway, too, gave short shrift to
> collaborators, executing Norwegian Nazi leader Vidkun Quisling very soon
> after war's end.  The creature's name lives on in the term "quisling",
> meaning collaborator, or traitor.

In terms of largest % of Jewish population given up, I think Holland was
the worst of the Western occupied countries (Denmark being the best).
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 14:19:11 -0500
From:    Barone <m1b@SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: ADMIN: Introduction to WWII-L

Revision: 2 December 1994
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[The major change is a disclaimer on copyright at the bottom.  - Joe]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Welcome to WWII-L, a list dedicated to the discussion of the greatest
cataclysm of the Twentieth century (and, hopefully, the last.)  My name is
Joe Barone and I am the listowner.  I can be reached at m1b@ssd.ray.com.

        WWII-L will be self-moderated.  This means that each of you will
always try to remember that there is a human being on the other end of the
wire, and the "Golden Rule" is rule number one!

        Our subject is HUGE and not everyone will be interested in everything
that moves over the list.  To ease YOUR burden of sorting the items you wish
to read, I offer the following "flags".  They will go FIRST on the Subject:
line.  (This section will be enforced when traffic gets heavy, otherwise
members may use their discretion on the matter.)

ADMIN For listowner use, to post introduction and related material.
      Responses to these articles are welcome, but only listowner
      should originate an "ADMIN" article.
ARC   For discussion of on-line resources and materials, such as those avail-
      able via ftp or gopher.  Discussion of the WWII-OLA (On-Line Archives
      should be posted under this flag.)
DOC   Reproductions of documents, Declarations of War, Speeches, Treaties, etc.
EDU   For discussion of aspects of teaching about the war.
GEN   "Let's find a category for this."
HOME  For discussions of events on the "Homefront".  To help distinguish
      WHICH homefront we're talking about, use the following format:
      HOME:US for the U.S.A.,
      HOME:GER for Germany, and so forth.
INF   Tables of Organization, raw data, chronologies, etc.
MEDIA To review and report TV and other media "events".
NEWS  For reproductions of newspaper, magazine, and other articles from the
      period under discussion.  Present day news items should be post under
      "MEDIA".
NOST  For nostalgia items, such as trips to battle sites, historical
      recreations, museum information, where to buy badges and hats, etc.
POL   Political discussions, such as the effects of the Yalta Conference.
REF   References, review, where-to-buy, etc.
SCI   For discussion of science and technology; may overlap with WEAP.
TAC   Tactical and Strategic discussions, "Island hopping vs. Single axis"
TROUBLE  Error messages from a site or address. Last chance to contact me
      before I'm forced to delete you! Anyone who knows the member in question
      is urged to contact them and have the problem corrected.
TRV   For you trivia buffs. Try to stump everyone.
VET   For reunions, VA announcements, Legislation affecting veterans.
WANT  For trading, suggestion on stores worth visting, etc.  Please offer to
WEAP  For talk of weapons, usage of weapons, and "My favorite weapon."
      send more information via e-mail rather than posting an entire inventory.
WHAT-IF  For discussing scenarios of what may have happened if things had
      been just a wee bit different.  Situations must have their roots in
      history and reality rather than flights of fancy.

        Some items will overlap, of course, but the main thrust of the item
should be clear.  Try not to ask so many questions in a single post that the
flags become inoperative.  Several short posts are preferable to one long one,
and are easier to answer and quote.  You should change the flag in the subject
line if the thread takes a new direction.  If you reply to a posting which
didn't have a flag, please insert the proper flag.  (This can help categorize
the subject for people who have to download the mail via slow modem, one of
the main reasons for having the flags at all.)

        Threads have been known to mutate so that the Subject: line no longer
gives any indication of the content of the message.  I ask that you check
the Subject: line when replying to a message and change it to something
more appropriate if this is the case.

        Since messages may arrive at sites out of order, it's always a good
idea to quote portions of a previous message that you are responding to.
This does not mean that the entire message with headers should be included,
but those lines that are relevant.  It helps if proper attribution (who
said the quoted material) is given.  Also, try to avoid quoting large
tracts of text and simply adding an "I agree!" line with no additional
information.  A good rule of thumb is not to have more quoted text than
new material.  Of course, content is always more important than style so
these suggestions may not apply.

        Abbreviations are another subject that needs attention.  While many
of us will be comfortable with the most arcane and obscure acronyms and
abbreviations, many of the readers of this list are here to learn more about
the war and will have trouble decyphering your articles if they are packed
with "LAH", "CinCUS", "StuG III", etc.  PLEASE expand these terms at least
once in your post.

        Similarly, since this list is primarily in English, could we please
translate the "foreign" terms?  A long discussion on "Kido Butai" or
"Wacht-am-Rhine" without an explantion of the terms isn't polite if we
exclude part of the list because they have no clue as to the meaning of
the terms.  The converse should also be remembered: English is not the
primary language of many members of the list.  Usenet short-hand should
also be expanded once to avoid redundant traffic explaining what such
abbreviations as BTW mean ("by the way").


        Now we come to the REALLY hard part.

        Some subjects have been beaten to death or evoke strong emotional
responses.  However, I realize that they'll come up from time to time.
If you feel that the following topics must be addressed, ensure that your
wording is precise; consider the responses that it might evoke; and use
the topics flag.  It is not my duty to censor any pertinent topic from this
list, but these topics should be handled carefully.  Failure to do so may
result in "flame wars" which will *not* be tolerated on this list.  The
mailing list suffered through one flame war pertaining to the second topic
below.  It nearly killed the list so I am loath to see if the list can
tolerate another.  Also, in regards to the Holocaust, there is another
mailing-list, HOLOCAUS-L, devoted to the topic so readers should subscribe
to that list for a more thorough discussion of that topic.  The current
list of topics are:

        1. The Holocaust.
        2. Internment of Japanese-Americans in the US.

        Also, while conspiracy theories were all the rage during in the 1970s
and 1980s, they're rather passe now.  Their novelty is gone and there is little
or no evidence to support them.  Occam's razor applies here: don't attribute
to malice the results of ignorance.  Accordingly, the following topics are
discouraged:

        1. Did Roosevelt know about the coming attack on Pearl Harbor and
           intentionally do nothing in order to drag the US into the war?
        2. Did Churchill allow the bombing of Conventry to occur in order
           to protect the secret of Ultra?

        While on the topic of touchy topics and flame wars, there are a
few individuals in the world who delight in posting the most assinine
assertions for the sole purpose of enraging the more serious members of a
group.  These people seem to derive pleasure seeing how much traffic they
can generate.  A subset of this group may actually believe the preposterous
things that they are claiming.  Regardless of such an individual's
motivation, though, if a message angers you, I ask that you not respond
immediately, if at all.  First, you would probably be playing right into
their hands and, secondly, nearly every other sensible person will have
the same response as your own.  I try to stay on top of this list in order
to prevent such flame wars, but propogation delays make it impossible for
me to react instantaneously.  Hopefully, I'll have the wisdom to discern
"flamebait" from an actual desire to debate an unpopular theory.


        One last item, STATE YOUR REFERENCES!  You're in tough company here.
| Members include historians, published authors, and at least three veterans
| (which I consider our most prized asset).  Some of the folks in this list
are VERY sharp, and you'll end up with egg on your face if you haven't done
your homework.

        Normally the listserv will want you to subscribe from your own account
rather than having me add you to the list.  This allows the software to confirm
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        Contact me if listserv gives you any problems and we'll seek a solution.

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Send the following commands  in the body of the message.

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To retrieve logfiles for WWII-L send mail to listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu or
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This file will contain all the postings sent to the list in the third week
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The files are held for two months and broken down by seven day periods (which
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You can also get the files by ftp if you have access.  FTP into
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a tip on getting older messages from the listserver:

        One of the features of the listserver is the database search.  This
allows the user to search for any subject and print either an index of the
"hits" or the articles themselves.  For instance, if you mail the command
sequence below to "listserv@ubvm.bitnet" or "listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu"
it will send you an index of all articles in the archive that deal with
weapons (the WEAP: tag).  (The usefulness of the subject flags discussed
earlier should be apparent now.)

        One member of the list used the old example that accompanied this
introduction and notified me that it didn't work.  Below is the correct
sequence of commands to search the database.  I've tried it so I can
vouch for its utility.

//      JOB Echo=No
Database Search DD=Rules
//Rules DD *
search WEAP: in WWII-L
index
/*

        If you change the word "index" to "print" it will return you a
copy of the articles themselves.  You can start with the listserv command,
"info database" and receive a complete set of instructions for using the
database. These instructions are not trivial and are a bit voluminous
but they are thorough and will help you get what you want.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Several members of the list provide daily updates of events that
occurred 50 years ago.  Much of this information is archived.  Below are
the addresses for retrieving archives of this information and much more.

| WWII-L ARCHIVES:
|   1. ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu in directory WWII_L
|
COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES is archived at two sites:

  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory /pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in
        /pub/history/military/airforce/ wwii_chronology

50 YEARS AGO TODAY is archived at:

  1. ftp.netcom.com, in directory /pub/jbd/www

50 YEARS AGO OF NAVAL ACTIVITIES and other historical goodies:

  1. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu in directory /pub/history and all subdirectories

        To access these archives using ftp, connect to the desired system,
enter "anonymous" when prompted for login ID, then enter your Internet mail
address when prompted for password.  You can then cd to the appropriate
directories.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|       Copyright issues are a major problem on the Internet.  As far as
| I'm concerned, messages sent to this list are the intellectual property
| of the person who sent the message.  Members should not freely relinguish
| their rights.  If members don't expressionly copyright their material,
| then I will assume that the material is still owned of the poster and that
| the list is the custodian of the information.  My policy will be to allow
| material to be reproduced only if it is done free of charge and is not
| altered in any form unless, of course, the owner has other requirements
| that would supercede this policy.
|
|       This is my first draft so I would appreciate any feedback from
| members.  My intent is to prevent people from getting gain, finanical
| or otherwise, from information that appears on this list without getting
| the consent from the authors of that information.  If anyone can word
| this intent better than I did above, I would like to hear from you.
| Thanks.
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I haven't suffciently confused you, send me e-mail and I'll finish
the job. :-)  I can be reached at the following address:

Joe Barone, WWII-L Listowner
m1b@ssd.ray.com
W: (401) 842-4054
Always wit' da negative waves, Moriarty!  Always wit' da negative waves!

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 14:20:30 -0500
From:    Oliver Bonham-Carter <ollie@CREIGHTON.EDU>
Subject: The A-Bombs in Japan

I was thinking... If radioactive matter was spilled somewhere (like in
Japan) wouldn't the Radioactivity ramain for a loooong time (maybe 100's of
years)? In that case, why dont I ever hear about the Japanise people, who
live in Heroshema (sp?) and Nagasaski, having cancer of other forms of
health complaints. Just like in the former USSR; in Chernoval, (sp?) when
the nuclear power plant had a melt-down and the people of that region
have to evacuate the area for hundreds of years before the gound would be
thought "safe". I suppose this is different because one little bomb
couldn't have as much radioactivity as today's giant nuclear power
station...or could it?

-ollie@bluejay.creighton.edu-
 "...So the bartender says "Hey, that's not a DUCK!"

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 16:30:49 CCS
From:    Jorge Merino <jem@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: TAC: Snooper missions

What were exactly the Snooper Missions? Were they some sort of Attack-
Reconnaissance mission?  They appear to be flown quite often since late
October 1944, and only by B-24's from Guam and Saipan; and the targets
were usually Iwo Jima and enemy ships at Bonin Islands. I would like to
know also what kind of equipment had to carry a B-24 for these missions.
Apart from the name, they appear to be conventional bombing missions.
I was wondering if there were other A/C used for the same purposes, and
if they were performed also in other areas / against other targets.

Jorge Merino

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 15:20:32 -0500
From:    Ron Babuka <wrb1@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Sturmovik

>Ron-
>I enjoyed your message about the Sturmovik and its use by the Soviets.
>I remember from the Profile of the aircraft in the "Aircraft in Profile"
>series that the Russians sometimes mounted grenade launchers under the
>wings to fire backwards to discourage pursuing fighters.  An interesting
>idea, that ranks right up there with Fulmar pilots tossing packets of
>toilet paper out to discourage pursuing Axis fighters.
>


Thanks for the compliment - I read about an intresting article about the
problems you have with rearward firing projecties.  At some time after
launching, there will be point where the rearward velocity will cancel out
the forward velocity of the aircraft.  At this point the "missles" lose a
great deal of their accuracy and potentially can lose all effectiveness.

As for the Fulmar, I have never really heard a good reason why the Fleet
Air Arm insisted upon two crew members in their fighters, considering the
fact that neither the Japanese or Americans ever really gave it a real
consideration.  Even more important was that they continued that tradition
with Firefly!  Well I guess they had the toilet paper-qualified backseater
union to keep pleased ;)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka
Cornell University
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 12:44:18 -0800
From:    Julian E Gomez <jeg@APPLE.COM>
Subject: Re: MEDIA:COMFORT WOMEN

>It seems to me that the curator of the Enola Gay exhibit should add a panel
>re/comfort women, or are they too PC for that? Ben Frank

Good one, Ben!



"I was a precocious child and obviously destined to be a scientist."

        Dr. Julian "a tribble took it" Gomez
        Apple Computer, Inc.  408/862-1289 or 996-1010
        jeg@apple.com  julian.g@applelink.apple.com

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 12:45:59 PST
From:    Henry Herz <herz@C3OT.C3OT.SAIC.COM>
Subject: Re: TRIV: Hair/skin from Conc. Camp victims

In message <9412022040.AA21176@imt.saic.com> World War II Discussion List
writes:
> I had heard over the years (sources long since forgotten) that hair was
> used for paint brushes (no big deal - my father cut my hair and did the
> same).
>
> The worst I' heard was that skin was cut off hands to make gloves. :-\
>
> -Al
>

My understanding is that skin was also used to make lampshades and that soap was
made from portions of the victims.  That should give some indication of the
level of barbarity we are talking about.  A very professional and impressive
source on the holocaust in general is provided by the US Holocaust Memorial
Museum.  I think the URL is http://www.ushmm.org

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 15:45:54 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <paa5137@DPSC.DLA.MIL>
Subject: Re: [INF] USAAF 2 DEC 44

In reply to the mail from <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>...

Much deleted
>
>EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)
>
>  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
>  Mission 734: 455 bombers and 604 fighters make GH attacks on marshalling
>yards and fighter bomber attacks; they claim 34-3-7 Luftwaffe aircraft; 11
>bombers and 4 fighters are lost:
>
  Much deleted
>PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)
>
>  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 23 B-24s from Guam Island hit Iwo Jima Island.
>During the night of 2/3 Dec 3 B-24s on snooper missions from Saipan Island,
>Mariana Islands and Guam Island bomb an airfield on Iwo Jima.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
>|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
>|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
>|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>02/0054Z DEC
>  Jack,

Just what are GH attacks?  BTW, also what are snooper missions?

Thanks

Jim


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        jirwin@dpsc.dla.mil
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 12:54:20 PST
From:    "Mark H. Walter" <mwalter@WORLD.NAD.NORTHROP.COM>
Subject: Re TRIV.  hair

>For some reason, I always thought that hair from concentration camp
>inmates was used on submarines to produce the cross-hairs on the
>periscope.  Anyone else ever hear that?  [Actually, I guess that the
>hair from one person could probably have provided enough for that
>purpose.]

I recall seeing on some nature show that spider silk was used for the
crosshairs on WWII US sub periscopes.  It's much thinner and stronger than
hair.  So be nice to spiders, they aren't all bad.

               Mark Walter     mwalter@world.nad.northrop.com

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 15:59:53 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <paa5137@DPSC.DLA.MIL>
Subject: Re: 50TH: HELPING THE

In reply to the mail from <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>...
>
>Hello, Ben!
>
>I couldn't agree with you more.
>
> I grow very angry thinking about it.
>
>    I don't blame you.
>
> It is not a matter
>> of whether "only" 30,000 or 40,000 American casualties would result from the
>> invasion, but the matter of just one American life being lost because we didn'
>t
>> drop the bomb.
>
>    In essence, this is what Harry Truman said himself in a postwar
>interview. In fact, he said that he would not hesitate to make the
>same decision again to use the bomb, if he were called on to do so.
>The one thing I have always admired about Mr.Truman was his ability
>to make a decision and once made, he stuck to it; even during the
>MacArthur episode.
>
> Also, they changers of historical fact seem to overlook the
>many
>> Japanese lives which would have been lost had the invasion been mounted.
>
>How true. It seems to me that, despite the extraordinarily heavy
>casualties we would have sustained, I think the Japanese People would
>have been faced with extinction.
>
> These
>> individuals seem to want to change the facts to meet their preconceived
>> conclusions.
>
>    Absolutely, and I wonder sometimes, if these people really
>believe what they say or themselves have not become victims of their
>own propaganda.
>
>    Thanks, Ben.
>
>    All the best.
>Ben and Terry,

I heard Alperovitz speak back in April of this year at the World
War II lectures at Camden County (NJ) Community College.  His
position was that all the high diplomats at the State and War
Departments agreed that the war was almost over and there was
no need for the atomic bomb.  He said that the Japanese had been
trying for weeks to get an armistice and there only condition
was that the Emperor remain.  Alperovitz asserted there was no
objection to this condition from Washington.  He said his
sources were diaries and writings from Stimson, Byrnes, etc.

Alperovitz gave the figure of 10,000-20,000 casualties for an
invasion, saying that was the figure in the War Department
planning papers for the invasion.  I asked him what the initial
figures were for the Okinawa operation, and by how much they
were underestimated.  He skirted the issue and gave no
definitive answer.  BTW, most of the audience, especially the
WWII vets, including my dad, thought he was full of ----!!!

He seems to have done quite a bit of research in the subject, for
a self-professed economist!! His bottom line is still the same
from the 1960s - the atomic bomb was dropped to impress Uncle
Joe, and to influence the post-war world makeup.

Jim

>    Terry
>
>>
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        jirwin@dpsc.dla.mil
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 15:59:30 -0500
From:    Ron Babuka <wrb1@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: GEN: Retirement during the war

I was doing a little biography reading and I noticed a number of senior
British officers retiring from their service branch during the war.  Point
in fact, Air Vice Marshal Sir Quintin Branch retired from the RAF in 1943
at age 50.  I have noticed a number of other senior officers especially in
the British armed forces where this occurred, and even if I took into
account the "forced" retirement of leaders that were not up to snuff or
their talents were outdated, the numbers still seem high to me. My
understanding was that most servicemen who signed up during the war,
enlisted for the "duration" of hostilities and I assumed that officers and
enlisted servicemen in the service before hostilities would also extended
for the "duration."  I would think that even if some officers were not able
to lead combat commands, that there would be an effort made to find
commands that they could accel at and place them in these commands instead
of retiring these officers.  Is their someone out their with a better
understanding of these matters who could enlighten me towards the general
procedure of "retiring" during hostilities.  TIA.

P
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka
Cornell University
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 16:06:57 -0500
From:    Lee Windsor u <wind6011@MACH1.WLU.CA>
Subject: Re: TRIV: Hair from Concentration Camp victims

>
> > For some reason, I always thought that hair from concentration camp
> > inmates was used on submarines to produce the cross-hairs on the
> > periscope.  Anyone else ever hear that?  [Actually, I guess that the
> > hair from one person could probably have provided enough for that
> > purpose.]
> >
> > Tim J. Watts
> > Valparaiso University
> >
>
Hello Tim!

I heard something similar.  My understanding was that the hair was used
as insulation for heavy boots and clothes for members of the U-bootwaffe
on the North Atlantic patrol.  I can't remember where I saw it but I will
try to look it up.

Lee

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 14:45:43 -0600
From:    Terrence Lindell <LINDELL@WARTBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rumanian Air Force (Capt CANTACUZENE)

In response to Greg Kelley's post on the Rumanian ace Cantacuzene:

There is a personal narrative of captivity in Rumanian hands that
describes camp life there for Americans and other Allied aircrew
shot down over Rumania.  It includes a description (though not from
first-hand observation) of Cantacuzene's flight with Gunn to Italy.
The title is The War of the Cottontails by, I believe, a fellow
named Cubbins.  He was a B-24 pilot with the 450th BG and was shot
down over Rumania in mid-1944.  If I remember correctly, Cantacuzene
died in Spain during the 1960s after or during an operation.  He had
tried unsuccessfully to get into the U.S.

Terry Lindell
Department of History
Wartburg College
Waverly, Iowa  50677
lindell@wartburg.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 15:36:27 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: TRIV: Hair/skin from Conc. Camp victims

Hello, Alan!

Just a quick addendum to your post.

> The worst I' heard was that skin was cut off hands to make gloves. :-\

    And also lampshades and skulls shrunken used as paper weights.I
saw this exhibit, used as evidence at the Nuremberg Trials, in a
museum in the former East Berlin.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 15:40:07 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Codebreakers...did they work?

Hello, Ollie!

I guess you are familiar with the Enigma project that was foiled.

This country also cracked the Japanese diplomatic code that foretold
of an impending attack on this country by the Japanese.

Also, we cracked the Japanese naval code that led to advance warning
of the Midway strike.

> How well did the code-breakers work (whether that's Allied or Axis
> codebreakers)? Anyone?

    Hope the above is of interest and assistance.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 16:06:25 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <gregk@STPAUL.LIB.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Question: Aircraft

                                          gregk@stpaul.lib.mn.us

>      >Of course, I've come to expect this sort of action from landlocked
>      >nations who have admirals as regents to a kingless throne.....
>
>
>
>      Yes, but see how much imagination it takes to be Hungarian!
>
>      Steve New
>
Imagination from Hungarians?  Nah.  The Czechs have 'em beat the
proverbial seven ways from Sunday.  After all, it was the Czechs who went
to the trouble of leasing from the Yugoslavs a base on the Adriatic coast
from which they could operate & test Avia-built floatplanes back in the
the twenties & thirties.  Now THERE'S imagination-- must've picked it up
during those Little Entente staff meetings with the Rumanians....


                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley

                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          gregk@stpaul.lib.mn.us

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 17:48:03 EST
From:    "SGM Robert S. Rush" <rushr@MEADE-EMH1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: 22d in the Hurtgen Forest 3 Dec 44

The 22d Infantry in the Hurtgen Forest 3 December 1944


The regimental headquarters spent the last night in the H|rtgen planning the
next day's relief and the move to its new location.  Lanham, still concerned
about what might happen before relief arrived, directed Captain Henley to
remain with the regiment instead of going with the advance party.  The journal
reflected that, "He considers Captain Henley a symbol of good luck to the
Regiment and we have some 20 hours to sweat out."

At 0845 hours 3 December, the 1st Battalion notified regimental headquarters
that about 150 Germans were attacking Baker Company, located around a single
house on the Gey-Grosshau Road.  The German attack hit the company on its flank
and began to roll the company position up, taking out one foxhole after
another.  American and German artillery pounded the open ground, keeping the
Americans in their holes and preventing the main body of Germans from
reinforcing the twenty-five soldiers who had broken through the American line.

Lieutenant Westman, Baker's Executive Officer, used the headquarters platoon of
radio operators, cooks, and other soldiers to help close the breach.  Help also
came from Able and Charlie Companies.  Lieutenant Don A. Warner Jr., the Able
Company Commander, arrived with fifteen soldiers from his company, obtained a
machinegun from a nearby half-track, and prevented the attack from spreading.
Staff Sergeant Louis Pingatore of Charlie Company, meanwhile, took two or three
men from each platoon, all brand new replacements, and moved toward the house
now occupied by the Germans.

When machinegun fire pinned down his squad,  Pingatore employed an expression,
or one similar thereto, that non-commissioned officers have used since the
Greeks stood before the walls of Troy, "Well men, we can't do a f_____g thing
sitting still."  With that, the soldiers got up and began firing
simultaneously.  By 1245 hours, the 1st Battalion had regained the lost ground.

This attack, although serious, did not hinder the completion of the relief.
Neither did a German attack by about thirty aircraft that flew up and down the
4th Division sector machine gunning the roads, but causing few casualties.  The
330th Infantry (83rd Infantry Division) took over the sector and the 22d
withdrew and reported its last seventy-six losses.

Later, on 4 December, when the regiment was at its new location in Luxembourg
and headcounts of each company were made, another eighty casualties were
reported, with most of the casualties listed as either killed or missing in
action.

This last segment concludes the narrative account of the 22d's ordeal in
the Hurtgen.  I welcome any comments.

>From Paschendale with Treebursts

Rob Rush

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 17:54:18 EST
From:    "SGM Robert S. Rush" <rushr@MEADE-EMH1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: 22d Hurtgen Conclusion

The 22d in the Hurtgen Forest -- THE AFTERMATH

On 16 November 1944 the 22d Infantry attacked into the H|rtgen Forest, not to
come out until 3 December.  During that eighteen-day period, the regiment lost
2774 soldiers, or 87 percent of its assigned strength.  With the turnover in
the rifle companies, and the accompanying loss of cohesion at the small unit
level, the Regiment's ability to continue came to rest on the organizational
structure and its leadership.  Only veteran leadership could keep a unit from
disintegrating after having suffered such terrible casualties.  When front-line
leaders became casualties, other veterans moved into these positions.  When
squad cohesion disappeared, the only thing remaining for a soldier was the
framework of his company and regiment.  David Rothbart, the Assignment Sergeant
for the Regiment, put it best when he wrote,

"It is becoming apparent that what makes this a good division is the little
turnover of personnel in artillery, communication, heavy weapons teams and
other supporting units; also, there are always just enough experienced men in
the rifle companies to enable them to function effectively, and perhaps most
important of all is the able leadership from battalion commanders on up."

As the battle progressed, battalions shrank to the size of companies, companies
to that of platoons, and squads existed in name only, and the veterans
disappeared.  The last days of the battle saw replacements with three day's
experience in the unit leading replacements with one, and the Regiment could no
longer continue.  The 22d was but a remnant of its former self.  Many companies
had fewer than ten of the original 165 soldiers present for the initial attack
answer the roll call on 4 December.

The Regiment had fought and defeated in turn elements of twenty-five German
units, ranging in size from regiment to battalion.  There are no existing
casualty figures for the German units, outside of those captured, but it must
be assumed that the German casualties were at least as high if not higher than
the 22d's.  German companies suffered the same fate as the 22d's, but lacked
the ability to regenerate and were burned in the flame of the H|rtgen. When the
German organization broke, rather than retreat, the soldiers surrendered.

Most of the soldiers, officers and enlisted, were bitter about their experience
in the H|rtgen.  Technician 5th Grade George Morgan, an armorer-artificer who
spent most of his time in the H|rtgen Forest collecting bodies, was most
poignant when he said,

" You can't get protection.  You can't see.  You can't get fields of fire.
The trees are slashed like a scythe by artillery.  Everything is tangled. You
can scarcely walk.  Everybody is cold and wet, and the mixture of cold rain and
sleet keeps falling.  They jump off again and soon there is only a handful of
the old men left."

In a letter to Carlos Baker, Ernest Hemingway's biographer, Colonel Lanham
wrote,

"At this time my mental anguish was beyond description.  My magnificent command
had virtually ceased to exist. . . .  These men had accomplished miracles . . .
my admiration and respect for them was . . . transcendental. "

Chaplain Boice wrote,

"Perhaps in the final analysis, the sacrifice demanded in H|rtgen will be
deemed worthwhile; we wouldn't know that. . . .  We are only the men who fought
the battles, . . ., who lay in the slime and mud night after night, . . ., who
did not come out of a foxhole long enough to eat Thanksgiving dinner, for life
was more precious than food. . . .  A part of us died in the forest, and there
is a part of our mind and heart and soul left there."

Captain Faulkner, the company commander whose company seized Grosshau in house
to house fighting, recorded in his diary,

"Company E had 79 men and 6 officers before Grosshau (when he took command of
the company), received about 160 new men and now only a little over 80 with 3
officers are going back.  It had better be worth it."

The last commander of F Company, George Wilson, wrote in his book If You
Survive,

"The objective lay only four and a half miles away, but it took eighteen
terrible days to reach [it]."  After he had listed the casualties for the
regiment and his company he continued, "It was an awful beating--a terrible
price for that damned patch of ground."

Lastly, Ernest Hemingway in his novel Across the River and Into the Trees, in
which he tied in his experience with the 22d Infantry in the H|rtgen, wrote,

"Well anyway this regiment was rebuilt as American regiments always are by the
replacement system . . . It boils down, or distills, to the fact you stay in
until you are hit badly or killed or go crazy and get section-eighted. . . .  "

"We got a certain amount of replacements but I can remember thinking that it
would be simpler, and more effective, to shoot them in the area where they
detrucked, than to have to try to bring them back from where they would be
killed and bury them. . . "

The soldiers of the 22d knew they had been roughly handled. Many did not
believe the ground seized was worth the near-destruction of their regiment.
The 22d Regiment paid 2714 casualties for one village and six thousand yards of
forest.  The combination of dark forest, miserable weather, and incessant,
inescapable artillery fire embedded forever the battle in the psyche of the
soldiers who fought it.

But there was a benefit to the American's fight in the H|rtgen, although one
not intended.  It served as a spoiling attack against the German buildup for
the Ardennes Campaign and constituted a threat against the northern flank of
the 6th SS Panzer Army, weakening the army from the beginning.  General G. V.
von Gersdorff, Chief of Staff of the 7th German Army both in the H|rtgen and
during the Ardennes Campaign, wrote about the impact the Battle in the H|rtgen
Forest had on the upcoming German Ardennes Counter-Offensive,

"In my opinion this was one of the primary reasons for the failure of the
offensive by the German right wing.  A H|rtgen forest clear of enemy forces and
under German control would have enabled us to start the offensive with a quite
different impetus.  Being intended as the center of gravity in the Ardennes
Offensive the 'H|rtgenwald' evidently was one of the decisive factors leading
to the failure of this operation."

So the effort in the H|rtgenwald was not without reward, for the fight around
H|rtgen, Kleinhau and Grosshau possibly changed the outcome in the Ardennes by
presenting a strong northern shoulder against which the 6th SS Panzer Army
broke, thus enabling the Americans early in the battle to deny the quick
approaches to the Meuse River.   Had the American effort bypassed the H|rtgen
Forest to the north in November, the forest would have served both as the hinge
on which the German Counteroffensive would pivot in December and as a natural
shield through which the American divisions would have to fight to hold the
flank.

Robert S. Rush, Paschendale with treebursts

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 18:01:47 EST
From:    "SGM Robert S. Rush" <rushr@MEADE-EMH1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

EPILOGUE

When the 22d Regiment pulled out of the H|rtgen Forest, it was posted to
Luxembourg, where on 16 December 1944, even in its reduced state, it played a
major part in containing the German Counter-offensive in the Ardennes.  In
February 1945, the Regiment again crossed into Germany, breaching the Siegfried
Line at the same location the 22d breached on 13 September 1944.  After seizing
Pr|m in February, and Hillesheim in early March, the Regiment was given its
first two week rest away from the front line. It was the only extended period
in which the regiment was able to rest during the war.  Back in combat in
April, the 22d participated in the pursuit across Germany, crossing the Isar
River at Miesbach and ended the war on occupation duty north of N|rnberg.

In the eleven months and two days of combat the 22d Regiment suffered 9359
battle casualties; killed and wounded. Non-battle casualties were also high.
The 4th Infantry Division reported 13,091 as non-battle casualties.   Although
no records listing non-battle casualties by regiment have been found, a
proportional share of 4,000 would make the Regiment's total casualties more
than 13,000 for the eleven month period.  If we assume a replacement for each
casualty, this means that a total of over 16,000 soldiers served with the
regiment in action; and 81 percent, regardless of time in the unit, became
casualties of one sort or another.

What became of the participants in the battle?  Major General Barton, (G6) was
relieved of command of the 4th Infantry Division on 27 December and  Brigadier
General Blakeney, the Division Artillery Commander, assumed command.  Colonel
Lanham (S6), was promoted to Brigadier General and became the Assistant
Division Commander for the 104th Infantry Division.  The Regiment's XO during
the H|rtgen, Lieutenant Colonel Ruggles became the Regimental Commander and
remained so until the Regiment was deactivated.  Lieutenant Colonel Edwards,
the Regimental S3, remained in that position the remainder of the war and was
the last soldier in the regiment.  On the Regiment's deactivation, he turned
the 22d's cased colors in for storage.  Major Blazzard, the Regimental S2, when
offered a choice between battalion command and a trip home, chose the trip
home.  Lieutenant Colonel Teague (Blue6), the 3d Battalion Commander who was
wounded on 17 November, came back to the Regiment as the Executive Officer
(S5).

The Regiment's three battalion commanders at the end of the war were products
of the 22d; all having landed on 6 June as captains with the organization.
Major Goforth (Red6) was promoted to Lieutenant Colonel and remained the
commander of the 1st Battalion.  When Lieutenant Colonel Kenan, the 2d
Battalion Commander was relieved in February, Captain Henly, now a major became
the 2d Battalion Commander.  Major Kemp, the 3d Battalion Commandr, remained
the battalion commander, and ended the war as a Lieutenant Colonel.  Captain
Newcomb, who entered the H|rtgen as the E Company Commander and
became the White5 when Major Samuels was wounded, was killed in February 1945
while again commanding a company.  Captain Harrison, who became the Blue5 on 17
November, remained the 3d Battalion Executive Officer, and ended the war as a
major.

The 22d Infantry entered the H|rtgen Forest expecting a low cost success.
Instead, the Regiment fought its way through the woods virtually unsupported in
a battle of attrition against elements of four German Divisions.  Although the
22d suffered more casualties than any other regiment in the H|rtgen it lost no
ground that it did not immediately recover.  The last days of the battle saw
fresh German battalions breaking thorough decimated companies of the 22d, only
to be cut off, killed or captured by other equally attrited companies rushed
into the breach.

The soldiers of the Regiment did not quit, but at the end there was no attack
left in the Regiment.  The loss of junior leaders was too great.  The soul of
the regiment had been ripped out.  The evidence suggests that the regiment kept
fighting as long as there were soldiers in it who had trained together in the
United States, or had had significant previous combat experience in the
regiment.  The regiment remained above 75 percent strength, but when all its
veterans became casualties its effectiveness was dramatically reduced.  As long
as there were veterans around whom the replacements could coalesce the regiment
moved forward.  The loss of these small unit leaders quite possibly dealt a
more deadly blow to the regiment's ability to attack than did the loss of every
rifle company and battalion commander.

The Regiment without doubt lived up to its motto Deeds, not words.

Thus the epic of the 22d in the Hurtgen comes to an end.

I welcome any comments

Rob Rush

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 18:59:35 EST
From:    Cassady Craft <CCRAFT@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Subject: To:  Ben Frank

Ben, I received the Smith vs. Smith paper that you sent.  Very interesting!
Thanks a million.

Cassady Craft
Department of Political Science
University of Georgia
e-mail CCRAFT@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
or
CCRAFT@LANL.GOV

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 16:21:32 -0800
From:    Jim Curry <kidcurry@BILLINGS.LIB.MT.US>
Subject: Re: Codebreakers...did they work?

They certainly worked for the Allies!  Codebreaking successes in both
the European and Pacific wars were basic factors in the final outcome.
The Axis powers didn't do nearly as well in this field, although both
Doenitz and Rommel got a lot of help from broken Allied codes.  These
successes were temporary and transitory,however; The Allied Ultra and
Magic operations were permanent assets since neither Germany or Japan
ever learned that their most secret messages were being read by their
enemies.  The literature on this  topic is pretty abundant now; I'd
recommend especially the books by Ronald Lewin, Ralph Bennett, and
David Kahn.

Jim Curry



On Thu, 1 Dec 1994, Oliver Bonham-Carter wrote:

> How well did the code-breakers work (whether that's Allied or Axis
> codebreakers)? Anyone?
>
>
> -ollie@bluejay.creighton.edu-
>  "...So the bartender says "Hey, that's not a DUCK!"
>

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 18:35:44 -0600
From:    Cheryl Kaye Bryant <muckb1@UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: Re: nativity

On Fri, 2 Dec 1994, Ellen Shepard wrote:

> I am interested in any other POW stories that took place in the U.S.  I know
> that German POW's worked for JR Reynolds in NC and there were POW's, Japanese
> and German, working in AZ.  Who knows any specifics?

A couple of weeks ago Michael Wallach(sp) from here at Western posted
some posts on a camp here in Illinois.  I will ask his permission to send
them to you.

C.K. Bryant

*******************************************************************
"The Riskier the road, the greater the profit."    / C.K. Bryant
        The 62nd Rule of Acquisition               / W.I.U. English
*******************************************************************

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 1 Dec 1994 to 2 Dec 1994
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 27 messages totalling 1319 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. QUERY-Molotov's & Hirohito's Deaths
  2. TAC: Screening Missions
  3. Historical collections (fwd)
  4. [INF] USAAF 2 DEC 44
  5. The A-Bombs in Japan (2)
  6. [INF] USAAF 3 DEC 44
  7. Codebreakers...did they work?
  8. HIST: HOLLYWOOD
  9. HIST: ARMY GREEN BOOKS
 10. MOVIE: FATHERLAND
 11. INF: USN Chronology 12-03-94
 12. Debunking Alperovitz
 13. PEARL HARBOR DAY
 14. nativity (2)
 15. INF: 50 Years Ago - 04-DEC-1944
 16. HIST: Hair, etc., from KZ inmates (3)
 17. WEAP: Sturmovik
 18. Cornelius Ryan
 19. TAC: Snooper missions
 20. [INF] USAAF 4 DEC 44
 21. [INF] USAAF 5 DEC 44
 22. 22D HURTGEN EPILOGUE
 23. The Netherlands: Holocaust

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 01:54:14 GMT+1
From:    SYSTEM OPERATOR <system@ABOUIS.FDN.ORG>
Subject: Re: QUERY-Molotov's & Hirohito's Deaths

SKIP WILDER <PHSP11A@prodigy.com> writes:

>
>                 V. M. Molotov - Born 3/9/1890
>                                 Died 11/8/1986
>

Incredible ! Did Molotov die only in 1986 ?
Was he ever interviewed in all those recent years ? For me it is about
as if Stalin himself had survived till now. He must have had very interesting
things to say ...and what can such a man have thought of himself ??

Flabbergasted,
Arnaud.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 20:44:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: TAC: Screening Missions

 >Many of Jack McKillop's recent postings on US air operations have listed
 >screening missions by 8th Air Force B-17's.  Usually they were performed
 >by about a dozen planes.  Does anyone have any idea what these were?  Could
 >they have been some kind of ECM operations?
 >
 >Tim J. Watts
 >Valparaiso University

Tim,

As I said in my first post today, you get a cigar however you missed the
scouting force so let me brief you on both.

The Screening Force was essentially were B-17s and B-24s assigned to the
36th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy) at Cheddington, England (moved to
ALconbury on 28 Feb 45).  Their job was to protect the primary VHF and
fighter-to-bomber communciations from interception during assembly.  I have
checked, but cannot find any reference as to how they did it.  Anybody have
any ideas?

The Scouting Force was an entirely different story.  In the pre-satellite
days, the bombers never knew what kind of weather they would encounter on
their way to targets on the Continenet.  So in May 44, the Eighth AF
started experimenting with the deHavilland Mosquito; it would fly to the
target and readio back weather data to the bombers but the aircraft had to
loiter in the target area and it was decided that the Mosquito was too
vulnerable.  So they decided to use North American P-51 Mustangs but the
average fighter pilot was not familar with the problems faced by bomber
crews so experienced bomber pilots who had finished their tour were
recruited and transitioned to the the P-51.  Normally, they would fly in
two-aircraft elements with a former bomber pilot flying lead and a fighter
pilot flying wing.  The advantage of the Mustang was it had the speed and
range, could defend itself and the Luftwaffe would not be unduly alarmed
with a couple of Mustangs flying around.  The first scouting mission was
flown on 16 Jul 44 against Munich.  Five days later, the 1st Bombardment
Division headed for Schweinfurt with their Scouting Force; enroute, they
encountered clouds towering to 28,000-feet (8,534 m) but they were able to
go around the clouds and find a clear path.  The Scouting Force radioed
this information back to the bombers but the aircraft of the 2d Bombardment
Division did not receive the message and they plowed through the clouds;
some of the 2d's B-24s got so lost that they ended up in Switzerland.  This
proved the value of the scouting P-51s and all three Bombardment Division
formed a force.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 17:53:13 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Historical collections (fwd)

>
> The N.C. State archives and/or state library may well have more information of
> direct interest to you.
>

What did this thread originally pertain to? I must have missed it. I am very
familiar with the WW II contents of both the N.C. State archives and State
Library. I work right next door and spend most lunches over there (working on
my 50 YA column). If I can be of assistance I'll be glad to help.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 21:09:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: [INF] USAAF 2 DEC 44

 >Much deleted
 >>
 >>EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)
 >>
 >>  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
 >>  Mission 734: 455 bombers and 604 fighters make GH attacks on marshalling
 >>yards and fighter bomber attacks; they claim 34-3-7 Luftwaffe aircraft; 11
 >>bombers and 4 fighters are lost:
 >>
 >  Much deleted
 >>PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)
 >>
 >>  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 23 B-24s from Guam Island hit Iwo Jima Island.
 >>During the night of 2/3 Dec 3 B-24s on snooper missions from Saipan Island,
 >>Mariana Islands and Guam Island bomb an airfield on Iwo Jima.

 >>  Jack,
 >
 >Just what are GH attacks?  BTW, also what are snooper missions?
 >
 >Thanks
 >
 > James E. Irwin (Jim)

Jim,

GH was actually Gee-H, a British airborne navigational system
adopted by the USAAF in the UK.  Gee relied on a series of
transmitters that laid out a radio grid across Europe.  The
navigator used a cathode ray tube to fix his position as long as
he was no further than 400 miles (644 km) from the transmitter.
The early Gee equipment had a deviation of 6 miles (9.7 km) at
maximum range; Gee-H was a more advanced piece of gear but I
don't know what it's deviation was.

A snooper mission was a small force of bombers (usually B-24s in
the Pacific) that would fly over the enemy position at night
occassionally dropping bombs, Coke bottles, beer cans, etc.  In
addition to causing some damage, the bombers kept the troops on
the ground awake.  The Japanese had done the same thing to our
troops on Guadalcanal Island.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 21:16:26 -0500
From:    Michael Andrew Turton <turtom@RPI.EDU>
Subject: Re: The A-Bombs in Japan

        They Japanese people DO have radiation-related health
problems, as even the most cursory glance at any A-Bomb related
material could tell you, Ollie@Bluejay.creighton.edu.  At least,
those Japanese who had the misfortune to live in Hiroshima and
Nagasaki.......

turtom@rpi.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 21:26:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 3 DEC 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SUNDAY, 3 DECEMBER 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 5 B-24s place delayed
action bombs near Pengpu bridge; 4 B-25s and 10 P-51s bomb a storage area
at Sintsiang; 67 fighter-bombers on armed reconnaissance blast trucks,
railroad targets, warehouses, shipping and other targets of opportunity at
Wanling, Burma, and in China, Loyang, Yuncheng, Hei-Shih Kuan, Wuhu, and
particularly in areas around Shihhweiyao and from Hengyang to Siangtan and
Lingling.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 32 P-47s continue close
support of ground forces attacking Bhamo; 18 others damage road bridges at
Hay-ti and Tonbo and 6 attack several railroad bridges in N Burma; 4 drop
delay-fuse bombs on the Myitson ferry landing; 30+ fighter-bombers hit troop
and equipment concentrations, fuel and other supplies, artillery, ammunition
dumps, and general town areas in or near Hopaw, Loipao, Man Kat, Namhpai, and
Indaw; 9 strafe targets of opportunity along the Shwebo-Wuntho rail line; 4
B-25s during the night of 3/4 Dec, destroy a train on the Tangon railroad
bridge and attack several other targets of opportunity. 323 transport sorties
are flown to forward bases and frontline areas.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): Weather cancels bomber operations.
In Germany, fighters fly defensive patrols and armed reconnaissance, hitting
rails and bridges and dive-bomb targets in W Germany including the
marshalling yard at Grevenbroich; the 104th Infantry Division is supported as
it extends the Inde River, Germany bridgehead beyond Lucherberg, Germany, the
US 1st Infantry Division as it seizes Luchem, the US 8th Infantry Division in
the Brandenberger Forest-Tiefenbach Creek area, and units of the US XII Corps
at Sarre-Union, France as it checks a counterattack. The 353d Fighter
Squadron, 354th Fighter Group, moves from Orconte to Rosieres-en-Haye,
France with P-47s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Austria, 85 B-24s and B-17s
bomb the Vienna SE freight depot, Linz industrial area, marshalling yards at
Innsbruck, Villach, and Klagenfurt, and various targets of opportunity; P-38s
and P-51s escort the bombers and fly reconnaissance and reconnaissance
escort. 14 B-17s and B-24s drop supplies in Yugoslavia.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, weather hampers
operations; many missions are aborted; medium bombers score effective hits
only on a bridge E of Mantua; the 57th and 350th fighter Groups fly 60
sorties against targets in the US Fifth Army battle area S of Bologna and
against communications in N Italy; during the night of 2/3 Dec, A-20s bomb
lights throughout the Po Valley; the 345th Fighter Squadron, 350th Fighter
Group moves from Tarquinia to Pisa with P-47s; the 522d and 523d Fighter
Squadrons, 27th Fighter Group, moves from Tarquinia to Pontedera, Italy
with P-47s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 17 Guam Island-based B-24s pound Iwo Jima
Island; 7 others, escorting photo aircraft over the Bonin and Kazan Islands,
bomb Haha Jima and Iwo Jima Islands. B-24s on snooper missions from the
Mariana Islands during the night of 3/4 Dec, continue to bomb Iwo Jima.

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force): Almost 70 XXI Bomber Command B-29s based in
the Mariana Islands bomb the Musashino aircraft plant and docks and urban
areas at Tokyo; 6 B-29s are lost.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: Major B-24 strikes
include raids against Malimpoeng and Mandai on Celebes Island. B-25s pound 4
airfields on Halmahera Island while A-20s attack Point Noejew, New Guinea.
In the Philippine Islands, fighter-bombers hit a storage area at Palompon on
Leyte Island and airfields near Masbate Island.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

03/0226Z DEC

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 03:40:24 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@EVS2.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: The A-Bombs in Japan

> I was thinking... If radioactive matter was spilled somewhere (like in
> Japan) wouldn't the Radioactivity ramain for a loooong time (maybe 100's of
> years)? In that case, why dont I ever hear about the Japanise people, who
> live in Heroshema (sp?) and Nagasaski, having cancer of other forms of
> health complaints. Just like in the former USSR; in Chernoval, (sp?) when

These two bombs were airbursts, i.e. they exploded in the air above the
city. Most of the fallout probably ended up in the Pacific ocean. The
population of the area is closely monitored, and some forms of cancer seem
to show up more than is normal --- but the difference is not large enough
to be statistically conclusive.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki used to be the primary areas of research for the
long-term effects of radioactive contamination, but such research is
extremely difficult. People are also subject to natural background
radioactivity (especially in mountaineous countries), medical X-rays,
chemicals and such.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 03:52:22 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@EVS2.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: Codebreakers...did they work?

There Germans at one time managed to break a code of the Royal Navy...
giving them the positions of the convoys on the Atlantic. I don't know
how long this lasted.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 01:01:57 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <ben.frank@HIS.COM>
Subject: HIST: HOLLYWOOD

Brian Donleavy was also a midshipman at the Naval Academy. I forget which class
year, but I was told that although he didn't graduate, he was very loyal to his
class. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 01:03:56 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <ben.frank@HIS.COM>
Subject: HIST: ARMY GREEN BOOKS

John, I don't have the listing of the Army green books published so far, but
there are a couple more yet to come out, one of which deals with medical
services, in the Pacific, I believe. The Navy does not have an "official"
series, the Morison 15 volumes being considered sufficient in quality and
quantity. Of course, as gloriously as Morison wrote, and as a trained historian
he should have known better, but he had no citations in any of the volumes, so
you don't have primary sources listed, as is not the case with either the Army
or Marine Corps official histories. Regards, Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 23:24:39 EST
From:    William Lippert <WL1958A@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject: MOVIE: FATHERLAND

    I have recently seen most of Fatherland (only missed first 15 or so
minutes) and have several comments on it.  First, I was disappointed that
there weren't any of the big people like Goebbels, Goring, etc.  Second,
they referred to Heydrich as Reichsmarshall once - a general impossiblity.
Reichminster, yes, but not RMshl.  Third, I think in the book Heydrich
was assasinated, and that made more sense to me.  Fourth, Artur Nebe
was in the movie, just like in the book, except in the movie they made
it seem as if he was ant-Gestapo and ignorant of the Holocaust.  Wasn't
he in charge of Eisatzgruppen B?  In which case he would have been a
part of the Holocaust (maybe would have thus been assassinate, too?
Finally, the ending was just corny.  I won't ruin it for those who
haven't seen it, but I just found it a little too far-fetched.
    Still, seeing everyone in one uniform or another, the Swastika and
Stars and Stripes, the Speer buildings, and at least mention of some of
the big people was neat.  Worth watching for free; hardly worth spending
too much money for.  Read the book - they are always better.

William Lippert
The American University

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 00:00:19 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 12-03-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
12/03  Sun  United States naval vessel sunk:
             Destroyer COOPER (DD-695), by torpedo from
              undetermined source, Ormoc Bay, P. I.,
              10 d. 54'N., 124 d. 36'E.
            United States naval vessels damaged, Ormoc Bay, P.
             I.:
             Destroyer ALLEN M. SUMNER (DD-691), by horizontal
              bomber.
              10 d. 54'N., 124 d. 36'E.
             Destroyer MOALE (DD-693), by naval gunfire,
              10 d. 54'N 124 d. 36'E.
            Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             Destroyer KUWA, by naval gunfire, Ormoc Bay, P. I.,
              10 d. 50'N., 124 d. 35'E.
             Coast defense vessel NO. 64, by submarine PIPEFISH
              (SS-388), South China Sea,
              18 d. 36'N., 111 d. 54'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 00:52:31 -0500
From:    John Sloan <JohnS426@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Debunking Alperovitz

Three cheers for Lee Windsor for the effort in debunking Alperovitz. Did you
see the devastating article in the Washington Post on Nov 30 by Robert
Newman?  It was a tremendous job of debunking as well.

keep up the good work
john sloan

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Dec 1994 22:37:31 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <jimadams@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: PEARL HARBOR DAY

        USS ARIZONA MEMORIAL
        HOSTS 53RD ANNIVERSARY COMMEMORATION
        DECEMBER 7, 1994

The National Park Service will host the 53rd Anniversary
Commemoration of the Japanese attack on O`ahu and Pearl
Harbor on Wednesday, December 7, 1994 at the USS Arizona
Memorial Visitor Center.  This special, one hour morning
ceremony is open to the general public and will commence
at 7:45 a.m. with opening remarks by Superintendent
Donald E. Magee,  invocation, and an  missing-man
formation flyover at 7:55 a.m. by the Hawaii Air National
Guard 199th Fighter Squadron, marking the moment the
attack began in 1941.

"We will join Americans across the United States in paying
tribute to our nation's fallen patriots as well as the
survivors of the 1941 attack, " Superintendent Magee
announced today.

This year's keynote speaker is Mr. Ed Linenthal, professor
of religious studies at the University of Wisconsin at
Oshkosh and author of several books on public history
including Sacred Ground: Americans and Their
Battlefields.  Linenthal is a frequent consultant to the
National Park Service and worked at the USS Arizona
Memorial during the 50th Anniversary ceremony.  His
keynote address is entitled "Remembering and Forgetting
World War II."

Traditionally, the National Park Service ceremony will be
held on the waterfront lawn of the visitor center,
overlooking Pearl Harbor and the USS Arizona Memorial.
National Park Service staff will be presenting wreaths on
behalf of the battleships in Pearl Harbor on December 7,
1941.

Pearl Harbor Survivor Chaplain Joe Morgan, LCDR, CHC (ret),
will present the invocation and the benediction.  The
ceremony will also feature "Echo Taps" and ceremonial
music provided by the Pacific Fleet Band.  A "Rifle
Salute" will be performed by a military firing detail.

As a tribute to all those who lost their lives on December
7, 1941 and in honor of all personnel who have died for
our country, guests will be invited to drop a flower into
the waters of Pearl Harbor at the conclusion of the
ceremony.

The theme for this years' program is "U.S. Aviation
elements of Pearl Harbor and World War II,"
and special activities offered throughout the day long
event include lectures, exhibits, videos, a military band
performance, several authors signing copies of their
books relating to the attack on Pearl Harbor, and a
commemorative stamp purchase and cancellation facility.

This year's program offer the general public a rare
opportunity to see and experience elements and sites on
O`ahu and the Pearl Harbor attack story seldom seen or
discussed.

In following the theme for this year, the National Park
Service will be offering a guided, air conditioned bus
tour of Hickam and Wheeler Airfields.  Tours will begin
at 10:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. and will take you back to the
golden days of aviation in Hawaii, describing in vivid
detail the disastrous events that unfolded at these
historic sites on December 7, 1941.  This 2 hour tour
will provide an inside look at historic structures and
sites and  several stopping points for photographs and
viewing of historic materials.  Advanced registration is
required. To register, please call Mr. Daniel Martinez at
422-2771 ext. 136 or Ms. Edean Saito at 422-2771 ext.
115.  Orders will be taken on a first come, first served
basis and are limited to 100 people per tour time.
Orders will be payable by credit card only and all sales
are final.  No refunds or changing of tour times will be
permitted.  Cost is $12.00 per person and tours will
depart from the front of the Arizona Memorial Visitor
Center parking lot.

The National Park Service will also be offering special
historical boat tours around Ford Island.   Embark aboard
a shuttle boat and journey over the waters of Pearl
Harbor and around historic Ford Island, an old Naval Air
Station, where history appears to have halted at World
War II.  A  Park Service Ranger will present an oral
history of the "Day that will live in infamy" as you
circumnavigate Ford Island and pass the USS Utah, where
58 of her crew members are still entombed, the infamous
"Battleship Row," and the USS Arizona Memorial.

Four different 1-hour tours are being offered free of
charge and reservations are now being taken.  A
description of each of the tours follows:

9:00 a.m.:  Ranger Skip Wheeler presents "FROM FISHPOND TO
BATTLESHIPS: THE TRANSFORMATION OF PEARL HARBOR."  Travel
through time from the geologic formation of Pearl Harbor
to its' importance to native Hawaiians and, subsequently,
its'  strategic significance to the U.S. military.
Discover how the history of Pearl Harbor extends far
beyond December 7, 1941.

10:30 a.m.:     "ALWAYS SACRED GROUND."  Park Ranger Natasha
Parekh shares both Hawaiian legends of Pearl Harbor and
the remembrances of those here on December 7, 1941 as you
travel across the sacred waters.  The land has changed,
the people have changed, but the sacred waters have
remained constant.

1:00 p.m.       Ranger Kathy Hanley will share some of the most
sophisticated technological marvels of the time which had
their start aboard the USS Utah as she takes you "BACK TO
THE FUTURE: THE USS UTAH - A SHIP AHEAD OF IT'S TIME."
With the most advanced equipment and the best trained
personnel the USS Utah helped prepare the military for
World War II.  Despite all of the technological
innovations, however, the USS Utah shared the same fate
as the USS Arizona.

2:30 p.m.:      "THE FORGOTTEN HISTORY OF DECEMBER 7, 1941."
Just like a chain reaction, the effects of the Japanese
attack were felt by one battleship after another.  Park
Ranger Melanie Ford will recount little known stories and
point out the site where the first bombs were dropped and
the sinking of a Japanese midget submarine in the harbor
waters .

Advanced registration is required for these free programs.
Deadline for signing up is December 2, 1994. To register,
please call Park Ranger Terry Dorman  at 422-2771 ext.
126 or Ranger Joe Bunch at ext. 125.   Reservations  will
be taken on a first come, first served basis and are
limited to 150 people per tour. Boats will leave promptly
from the Visitor Center boat dock.  Arrive no later than
20 minutes prior to scheduled departure.  There will be
no disembarking points during this tour but photographic
opportunities will be available.

The City and County of Honolulu Fire Department will
provide an all day exhibit that includes the original
fire truck stationed at Hickam (Army Air Field)/AFB at
the time of the 1941 attack.

Other Special Feature Programs and times are as follows:

9:00 a.m.       Mr. Larry Rodriggs, author of "We Remember Pearl
Harbor," and oral and           pictorial history.  Fifty human
interest stories, told in their own words, by civilians
                who remember Pearl Harbor and the years that followed in
Honolulu.  Curfew,              blackout, air-raid drills, gas
masks, censorship, evacuation, military courts - these
people lived through difficult times.  Mr. Rodriggs will
be providing us with the                civilian's life story of that
fateful day and how their lives were affected.

9:15 a.m.       Regular Daily Program Begins.  The park will be
providing regular programming           on a first come, first
serve basis.  Included are a Ranger introduced,
historical film                 and boat trip to the USS Arizona
Memorial.  The entire program lasts 75 minutes.                 There
is no charge, although donations are acceptable and
appreciated.

"Sign Me Up! I Want to be a 'WARD' and Serve My Country."
Park Ranger Marie Bayer will present a 30 minute,
illustrated talk as she plots the history of the women
who "plotted the course" and ensured the safe return of
countless numbers of men during WWII.  Some women
contributed to the war effort by joining the armed forces
and enlisting in the "Women's Air Raid Defense."  Two
WARDs, Bette Ballentyne and Kathy Cooper will also be on
hand during and following this presentation.

John Kuborn and Leatrice Arakaki present: "7 December 1941;
The Air Force and        Story."  A fifteen minute slide
presentation describing the Hawaiian Air Force prior to
the attack and what happened on Hickam, Wheeler, and
Bellows  Air Field during the attack.  Photographs and
information are presented from an airman's viewpoint.
Many of the slides used have never been seen by the
public.

The Commander-in-Chief Pacific Fleet's Band will be
performing on the waterfront lanai.  Their program will
feature a variety of musical selections of the 1930's and
1940's as well as patriotic tunes. Pack a brown bag
lunch, bring a lawn chair, and enjoy a midday musical
break.  No alcoholic beverages are allowed.

Burl Burlingame, author, historian, journalists gives us
insight on the Japanese submarine assault on Hawaii and
the West Coast, strategy, tactics, technology and
social/cultural impact plus updates on existent artifacts
and ongoing marine archaeology on the subject.  His book,
"Advance Force - Pearl Harbor," explains the submarine
aspects and possible use of a midget submarine in the
Harbor.

Mural Dedication. A new photographic mural will be unveiled
and officially presented to the museum.  Presented by
Autometrics Inc., this photograph is the same one
described by Mr. Burlingame (see above) in his book
regarding the use of a midget submarine in the Harbor.

The staff advises all guest planning to visit the Memorial
on December 7, 1994 to arrive at the Visitor Center no
later than 1:00 p.m. and anticipate a waiting period that
could exceed 60 minutes. The National Park Service is
pleased to provide the above programs as a public service
to our country in helping to remember and achieve a
better understanding of our history.

NOTE TO THE NEWS MEDIA REPRESENTATIVES:
Media representatives are urged to be at the USS Arizona
Memorial Visitor Center absolutely no later than 7:15
a.m. on Wednesday, December 7, 1994 for a pre-observance
briefing.  Please check at the information desk located
in the lobby of the Visitor Center upon arrival.  Request
media representatives contact Mr. Jim Adams, USS Arizona
Memorial Media Coordinator for the program, for press
clearance assistance or other information.  Please notify
Mr. Adams of your intentions to attend no later than
Monday, December 5, 1994.  Phone 422-2771 ext. 130.

        **THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE**


****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       jimadams@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu
Cultural Resource Manager
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS       (808) 422-2771  extension 130
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 07:24:24 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: nativity

Hello, Ellen!

The person to contact is Dr. Krammer at Texas A and M University who
is an expert in this field.

He teaches history there, and contacted at that department.

Hope this helps.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 05:51:58 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 04-DEC-1944

On 04-DEC-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The XIII Corps (US 9th Army) ends its offensive after
capturing all of its objectives west of the Rur except for the villages of
Mullendorf and Wurm. The 104th Division (US 1st Army) reinforces its
bridgehead over the Inden. The 95th Division (US 3rd Army), after capturing
the bridge over the Saar at Saarlautern, quickly regroups and sends several
units across the Saar, where they begin a bitter fight for the capture of
the outskirts of Fraulautern (which forms part of the Siegfried Line). The
XII Corps begins the final attack on the Saar with its four divisions, the
80th, 6th Armoured, 26th and 35th.

Eastern Front - The Russians capture Mitrovica in Hungary. Fighting
continues southwest and northeast of Budapest.

Italian Front - The Polish II Corps captures Montecchio. Units of the
Canadian I Corps enter Ravenna.

Philippines (Leyte) - The 112th Cavalry renews its attacks against the
Japanese southest of Limon, with little success. Units from the 24th
Division withdraw from Kilay Ridge towards Pinamopoan. The XXIV Corps
prepares for the offensive against Ormoc; the 7th Division will advance
along the coast, while the 77th Division will carry out an amphibious
landing in Ormoc Bay.

The Homefront
-------------
Pro Football - New York 16, Washington 13; Philadelphia 34, Brookly 0;
Detroit 38, Boston 7; Chicago 49, Cards-Pitt 7.

Byron Nelson Wins Again - Byron Nelson has won the $14,500 San Francisco
open golf tournament for the second year with a score of 281 for the 72
hole tournament.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "Facts On File Yearbook 1944,
Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica and "Time" magazine.

Copyright 1994 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 10:17:02 -0500
From:    Warren Thompson <THOMPSON@ACAD.LVC.EDU>
Subject: HIST: Hair, etc., from KZ inmates

Question: Has it been verified that lampshades were made from human skin, soap
from human fat, and so on? If so, was this a widespread practice? And by whom?

-- Warren Thompson

thompson@acad.lvc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 11:02:28 EDT
From:    "Steve L. New" <newst@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Sturmovik

     >As for the Fulmar, I have never really heard a good reason why the
     >Fleet Air Arm insisted upon two crew members in their fighters,
     >considering the fact that neither the Japanese or Americans ever
     >really gave it a real consideration.  Even more important was that
     >they continued that tradition with Firefly!  Well I guess they had
     >the toilet paper-qualified backseater union to keep pleased ;)
     >---------------------------------------------------------------------

     >Ron Babuka
     >Cornell University
     >CIT - Information Resources
     >Ithaca, New York 14850
     >(607) 254-6492


     Ron,

     Even if he is useless for anything else, that back seater provides
     another pair of eyes to try to find out just where your carrier got
     itself off to when your mission (and fuel) are just about over.

     I've read a number of accounts from both Royal Navy and US Navy pilots
     from the 1930s that relate that it was all too common at the end of an
     excercise where their carriers would be no where near the point that
     their preflight briefings said they would be.

     Surprisingly, the US Navy has returned to the preference for 2 man
     fighters (F-4, F-14 etc.).  Now, I know that they explain it based on
     the complexity of the weapon systems, where the pilot is too busy just
     flying the plane to handle all the weapon systems, ecm etc..  I do
     wonder though, since the Navy has adopted the tactical practice of
     Electronic Emission silence, whether that back seater doesn't just
     spend part of his time looking for wakes.

     Steve New

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 10:32:05 -0600
From:    Terrance Lewis <tlewis@NEW-ORLEANS.NEOSOFT.COM>
Subject: Re: HIST: Hair, etc., from KZ inmates

On Sat, 3 Dec 1994, Warren Thompson wrote:

> Question: Has it been verified that lampshades were made from human skin, soap
> from human fat, and so on? If so, was this a widespread practice? And by whom?
>
> -- Warren Thompson
>
> thompson@acad.lvc.edu
>

1) Yes -- by some of the loonier sadists working in the camps;
2) No -- this story came out of World War I.

>From my "A Climate for Appeasement" (chapter 1):
'....The most famous "low" propaganda was the story of the German
*Kadaver* factories, which was sprung on the British people on...April
17, 1917, in a story in the "Daily Mail" with the headline "HUN GHOULS:
Oil, Fodder and Dividends From the Dead."...'
   [The Daily Mail story came from] ... 'the London Times [which]
reprinted a story from a Berlin paper which mentioned a
*Kadaverwertunganstalt* which rendered oil and pig fodder.  Although there
were many who correctly realized that the Germans were processing horses
and not men, the storyu was pressed by the Government....As Sir Robert
Cecil...said..."In view of the other actions by German military
authorities there is nothing incredible in the present charges against
them."'

"T"
tlewis@new-orleans.Neosoft.com
Terrance L. Lewis, PhD  History Program
Southern University at New Orleans

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 09:57:17 -0800
From:    Jim Curry <kidcurry@BILLINGS.LIB.MT.US>
Subject: Re: Cornelius Ryan

Hello, Tony!
Neither _The Last Battle_ nor _A Bridge Too Far_ is in print any longer in
the US.  You might try used book dealers--many will do searches for OP books.
As former bestsellers, both titles should be pretty easy to obtain.

Jim Curry

On Fri, 2 Dec 1994, Tony Schuler wrote:

> Does anyone know if The Last Battle or A Bridge too far are out of print.
> If not where can I obtain copies of them?
>
> Tony Schuler
> Schulere@uwstout.edu
>

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 13:55:56 -0500
From:    David Rising <drising@ACS.BU.EDU>
Subject: Re: HIST: Hair, etc., from KZ inmates

On Sat, 3 Dec 1994, Warren Thompson wrote:

> Question: Has it been verified that lampshades were made from human skin, soap
> from human fat, and so on? If so, was this a widespread practice? And by whom?

Yes, it has been verified. In fact, they have some of the different
"items" on display at various holocaust museums. No, it was not a
widespread practice. If I recall correctly, the gold teeth were melted
down, and the hair was used to produce felt, but the other practices were
uncommon. The Nazis tried all kinds of things, including trying to
produce methane (?) from human feces--the building where they had set up
this "experiment" is still standing at Auschwitz II. Hope this helps,
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 12:51:20 -0600
From:    Terrence Lindell <LINDELL@WARTBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: nativity

On Dec. 2 Ellen Shepard asked about Axis POWs working in the US.

In Iowa prisoners from the main camp at Algona (where the nativity scene
was carved), were dispersed to branch camps to meet various labor needs.
During 1944, 60 German POWs were housed at a YWCA camp south of Waverly
and used principally was workers in a canning factory here, which produced
canned green beans and canned corn, much of went to the US military.

In addition to their work in the canning factory, they were responsible for
making improvements at the camp, such as clearing brush and building a
shower facility, as part of the compensation for the use of the camp.  They
also constructed a grain elevator at a town north of Waverly.  I have also
heard reports of them working in fields at harvest time.

They were paid a small sum (80 cents per day).  Any additional money they
earned from the employer went to the US government to defray the cost of
keeping them as POWs.

The presence of the POWs in Waverly stirred some excitement.  The local
newspaper editor conveyed the local authorities' concern that the POWs
not become the objects of too much idle curiosity.  The editor also
complained that people were wasting precious rationed gasoline to drive
by the camp to see what they could see.  There were strict orders to keep
the POWs away from the civilian population.  However, there are reports
that a number of townspeople struck up conversations in German with
the POWs.  (Waverly and the surrounding agricultural area is heavily
German).

Terry Lindell
Department of History
Wartburg College
Waverly, Iowa  50677
lindell@wartburg.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 20:35:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: TAC: Snooper missions

Jorge Merino writes:
 >
 >What were exactly the Snooper Missions? Were they some sort of Attack-
 >Reconnaissance mission?  They appear to be flown quite often since late
 >October 1944, and only by B-24's from Guam and Saipan; and the targets
 >were usually Iwo Jima and enemy ships at Bonin Islands. I would like to
 >know also what kind of equipment had to carry a B-24 for these missions.
 >Apart from the name, they appear to be conventional bombing missions.
 >I was wondering if there were other A/C used for the same purposes, and
 >if they were performed also in other areas / against other targets.


The original AAF snooper missions were flown by radar-equipped
B-24s of the Thirteenth Air Force.  Ten of these aircraft arrived
on Guadalcanal in Aug 43 and were assigned to the the 394th
Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 5th Bombardment Group (Heavy), on
Guadalcanal.  The blind-bombing equipment, known as low-altitude
bombarment (LAB) consisted of an SCR-717B Sea Search Radar, the
SCR-729 interrogator-responder and other devices including an
absolute altimeter, a radar scope and a new bomb-release mechanism
that permitted dropping bombs irrespective of visual sighting of the
target.  These aircraft were initially assigned the task of
attacking Japanese ships and barges at night.  They would normally
attack shipping from 1,200 to 1,500 feet (366 to 457 m).  On 28
Sep 43, 5 of the 8 snooper B-24s airborne attacked a 10- or 11-ship
convoy just north of Cape Alexander; they sank one destroyer and
damaged enought of the other ships so that the convoy reversed
course and headed home.

In Oct 43, radar-equipped B-24s arrived in the SWPA and were
assigned to the 63d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 43d Bombardment
Group (Heavy), Fifth Air Force in New Guinea.

On 1 Jan 44, the 868th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy) was activated
by the Thirteenth AF and they flew snooper attacks and pathfinder
missions between 4 Jan 44 and 13 Aug 45 while based on New Georgia
Island (Jan-Mar 44), Los Negros Island (Mar-Aug 44), Noemfoor
Island (Aug 44-Mar 45), Leyte Island (Jul 45) and Okinawa (Jul-Aug
45).

The aircraft attacking Iwo Jima from the Mariana Islands were
assigned to the Seventh Air Force and as far as I have been able to
ascertain, they were "stock" B-24s.  It was difficult to miss a big
island, especially if the moon is "right."  One of the reasons for
bombing Iwo Jima so much was that Japanese aircraft were attacking
the Mariana Islands and destroying or damaging B-29s.  General
"Hap" Arnold, Commanding General US Army Air Forces and Commanding
General of the Twentieth Air Force, was "not happy" with this turn
of events and he WANTED something done about these Japanese attacks.
When the "boss" speaks, you listen!  The B-24s, and occassionally
B-29s, were bombing Iwo Jima during the day and the night missions
were intended to prevent the Japanese from repairing their two
airfields on the island and to keep the troops awake and on alert.
And no matter how good the troops are, it is difficult to repair an
airfield at night without lights.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 20:42:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 4 DEC 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
MONDAY, 4 DECEMBER 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): A weather aircraft aborts shortly after
takeoff.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): 24 B-25s, supported by 12 P-40s, hit
bridges, buildings, and river, road, and rail traffic at several points in
China, French Indochina, and Burma including Lashio, Kutkai and Namhkai,
Burma; and Saiping, Hsiangcheng, Lingling, the Kweilin area, between Minkiang,
and Sinantien, and between Sinyang and Saiping, China; 90+ fighter-bombers on
armed reconnaissance pound numerous targets of opportunity from Hsenwi, Burma
to Nanning, China; Lang Son, French Indochina; and Namhkai, Burma and across
S China from the Burma border to Amoy, China.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 28 P-47s attack and damage
bridges at Kawnghka, Namyao, Nampawng, Namhkai, and Hsenwi and demolish the
main bridge at Ho-kho; 8 P-47s support ground forces in the Bhamo area; 60+
fighter-bombers hit enemy-held positions, troop concentrations, supply areas,
warehouses, and general targets of opportunity at Man Mau, Nwegyo, Mogok,
Hkayanzatkon, Pangpong, Namahokgyi, Kyu-sa, Man Maw, Mongnaw, and Man Htam.
Transports fly 308 sorties to forward areas. The 319th Troop Carrier
Squadron (Commando), 1st Air Commando Group, based at Asansol, India with
C-47s begins operating from various forward bases in Burma.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
  Mission 736: 1,191 bombers and 977 fighters are dispatched to make PFF
attacks on rail targets in Germany; 3 bombers and 3 fighters are lost:
  1. 419 B-17s are dispatched to hit marshalling yards at Kassel (212) and
Soest (188); 2 others hit targets of opportunities; 4 B-17s are damaged
beyond repair and 3 damaged. Escorting are 375 P-47s and P-51s; 1 P-51 is
lost (pilot MIA).
  2. 315 B-24s are sent to hit the Bebra marshalling yard (199); targets of
opportunity are marshalling yards at Koblenz (78) and Giessen (21) and other
(1); 1 B-24 is lost and 15 damaged; 10 airmen are MIA. Escorting are 290
P-47s and P-51s; they claim 6-0-11 aircraft on the ground.
  3. 457 B-17s are sent to hit marshalling yards at Mainz (221) and Giessen
(62); targets of opportunity are the Friedburg marshalling yard (119), Fulda
(24), barges on the Rhine River (11) and other (6); 2 B-17s are lost, 1
damaged beyond repair and 106 damaged; 1 airman is WIA and 18 MIA. Escorting
are 238 of 244 P-51s; 2 P-51s are lost (pilots MIA).
  4. 36 of 37 P-51s fly a scouting mission.
  Mission 737: 10 of 11 B-17s and B-24s drop leaflets in the Netherlands,
France and Germany during the night.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): Weather prevents bomber operations.
In Germany, fighters fly armed reconnaissance and support the US 1st, 8th,
and 104th Infantry Divisions at Luchem, Bergstein, and E of Inde River; and
the XII and XX Corps in drive toward the Saar River and around Saarlautern.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 26 P-38s bomb a railroad bridge
at Zenica, Yugoslavia. 14 B-17s and B-24s drop supplies in N Italy; P-38s and
P-51s fly reconnaissance and escort missions. Bad weather prevents heavy
bomber operations.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s hit defenses in
the Bagnaeavallo and Faenza areas and an ammunition dump at Tortona; XXII
Tactical Air Command aircraft hit targets in the US Fifth Army battle area S
of Bologna in the Apennines Mountains and communications to the N of the
battle zone. During the night of 3/4 Dec, A-20s again bomb targets of
opportunity in the Po River Valley; the 7th Troop Carrier Squadron, 62d
Troop Carrier Group, moves from Tarquinia to Brindisi with C-47s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 3 B-24s from Guam Island hit Marcus Island in
the North Pacific Ocean while 3 from Saipan Island bomb Pagan Island in the
Mariana Islands. Snooper missions continue as 2 Mariana Islands-based B-24s
bomb Iwo Jima Island during the night of 4/5 Dec.

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force): HQ XXI Bomber Command arrives at Harmon
Field, Guam Island from the US.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

04/0142Z DEC

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 20:50:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 5 DEC 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
TUESDAY, 5 DECEMBER 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-26, Douglas Invader
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): 6 B-24s off for a strike on Kakumabetsu in
the Kurile Islands abort due to weather and B-25s cancel a shipping sweep.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): 7 B-24s on sweeps over the Gulf of
Tonkin, the S China Sea, and Formosa Strait bomb Ft Bayard, China and Kowloon
Docks in Hong Kong and damage a freighter. 6 B-25s pound targets of
opportunity from Liuchow to Liuchenghsien, China; 61 P-40s, P-51s, and P-38s
on armed reconnaissance hit river, road, and rail traffic and other targets
of opportunity at scattered points mainly in S China.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 31 fighter-bombers support
ground forces in the Bhamo area; 25 fighter-bombers hit Hay-ti, Meza, and 3
other road bridges; 20+ fighter-bombers attack town areas, troop
concentrations and storage facilities in or near Kawngwai, Kunmong,
Settawagon, and Thitpoklwin; 8 attack targets of opportunity along the
Shwebo-Wuntho rail line; transports complete 285 sorties carrying troops to
forward bases and dropping supplies to frontline forces; 10 B-25s bomb a
communications center, supplies, and personnel concentration at Mogok; on
this date Tenth AF aircraft begin Operation GRUBWORM, flying the Chinese 14th
and 22d Divisions from Burma to China in preparation for the Yunnan campaign
to counter a probable Japanese drive toward Kunming, China; the 9th
Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron, 8th Photographic Reconnaissance Group,
moves from Barrackpore, India to Myitkyina with B-25s and F-5s (a detachment
is operating from Chittagong, India); the 317th Troop Carrier Squadron
(Commando), 2d Air Commando Group, moves from Bikram, India to Myitkyina with
C-47s.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 3 missions are flown.
  Mission 738: 589 bombers and 884 fighters are dispatched to make attacks on
Germany; an estimated 275-300 Luftwaffe fighters attack and AAF fighters
claim 90-7-30 aircraft; 12 bombers and 17 fighters are lost:
  1. 451 B-17s are dispatched to make PFF attacks on munitions and tank
plants at Berlin (404); targets of opportunity are Nienburg (2) and other
(23); 12 B-17s are lost and 169 damaged; 1 airman is KIA, 8 WIA and 115 MIA.
Escorting are 630 of 711 P-51s; they claim 90-7-23 aircraft in the air and
0-0-2 on the ground; 15 P-51s are lost (pilots MIA) and 1 damaged beyond
repair.
  2. 114 of 129 B-24s hit the marshalling yard at Munster; 10 B-24s are
damaged. Escorting are 141 P-47s and P-51s; 2 P-51s are lost (pilots MIA) and
1 P-47 damaged beyond repair.
  3. 6 of 6 B-24s fly a screening mission.
  4. 23 of 25 P-51s fly a scouting mission.
  Mission 739 is an APHRODITE mission with 2 B-17 Castor drones, 3 B-17
control and observation aircraft, a P-38 observation aircraft and 17 of 17
P-51s as escort; the P-51s claim 1-0-0 aircraft.
  Mission 740: 11 of the 4 B-17s and 8 B-24s dispatched drop leaflets in the
Netherlands, France and Germany.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In Germany, 172 A-20s, A-26s, and
B-26s attack a marshalling yard, road junction, fuel storage dump, defended
positions, and rail bridge at 8 locations; fighters escort 9th Bombardment
Division aircraft, fly numerous armed reconnaissance missions, and provide
cover for the US 1st, 8th, and 104th Infantry Divisions in the Luchem,
Bergstein, and Lucherberg areas.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Bad weather again cancels heavy
bomber operations. P-38s, escorted by P-51s, fly photo and weather
reconnaissance missions.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, bad weather severely
restricts operations; medium bomber missions are cancelled except for a
weather reconnaissance flight; fighters and fighter-bombers hit a few rail
lines and other communications targets in the E Po River Valley but devote a
major effort to closely support the US Fifth Army in the battle area S of
Bologna; HQ 79th Fighter Group and the 85th and 86th Fighter Squadrons move
from Iesi to Fano with P-47s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): P-47s from Saipan Island strafe the runway on
Pagan Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: On Halmahera
Island, B-24s strike Hate Tabako, Galela, and Djailolo Airfields while B-25s
and A-20s lightly raid Miti and Kaoe Airfields. B-25s hit Langoan on Celebes
Island while B-24s flying in pairs hit targets of opportunity nearby and in N
Borneo. Fighter-bombers over the C Philippine Islands area hit Japanese
positions, barges, and communications targets.


SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

04/0150Z DEC

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 23:18:31 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <ben.frank@HIS.COM>
Subject: 22D HURTGEN EPILOGUE

SgtMaj Rush, I salute you for providing an epic and gripping story of the
heroism and fortitude of the 22d Infantry. It was a moving saga which deserves
the respect of all Americans, and especially from warriors of all U.S.
services. The story of the battle of Huertgen Fores must take its place
alongside other heroic American campaigns--Bataan, Wake Island, Peleliu, Iwo
Jima, Chosin Reservoir, Hue. Thank you for sending it to the list. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 20:59:09 -0800
From:    Anthony Anderson <anthonya@CHARON.USC.EDU>
Subject: The Netherlands: Holocaust

On Fri, 2 Dec 1994, David Rising wrote:

> In terms of largest % of Jewish population given up, I think Holland was
> the worst of the Western occupied countries (Denmark being the best).

The Netherlands lost 85% of its Jewish population in the
Holocaust. This indeed was the highest percentage of any the
countries occupied by Germany in western Europe. The reasons,
however, behind this sad statistic are immensely complex.
Geography was certainly a major factor. On all sides of its borders
Holland was surrounded by countries under Nazi control (including Germany
itself.) Crossing the North Sea to England was not a viable option.
Once Holland had been invaded there was no real place to which Dutch Jews
could flee outside the country. And within the Netherlands the country's
absence of mountains and real forests greatly restricted the options for
people needing natural areas in which to hide themselves. The other
significant factor in the destruction of Dutch Jewry was the fact
that the Germans imposed on the Netherlands a civilian occupation and
not just a military one; this was also done in Norway but in no other
German occupied country in the West. The ramifications of having a
civilian occupation was that Holland had to endure on its soil one of the
highest percentage in numbers of German military, including the SS and
Gestapo. Implementing the Final Solution in the Netherlands was one of
their top priorities. Racially, the Germans considered the Dutch to be
among the best and purest of all the Aryan "races"; the fact that Jews
in Holland enjoyed just about the greatest deal of tolerance and
assimilation of any Jews in any  European country particularly incensed
the Nazis."Cleansing" Holland of its Jews had a more of an urgency to the
Nazis than doing the same, say, in occupied France.

It also didn't help that within the leadership of the Dutch Jewish
community there was a certain degree of naivity in regards to the
ultimate aims of the Nazis. But this is easy for us to say that now, knowing
what we know in 1994 and what could not have scarely been imagined in 1942.

It is also true that there were some Dutch who did actively collaborate
with the Germans, including those assisted them with the persecution of
the Jews. But the percentage of such people was very small. Within
Israel commemoration has been made of "righteous Gentiles", that is, those
people who risked their own lives during the time of the Holocaust to save
Jews. It is the Dutch who make up the greatest number of these
"righteous Gentiles" and this statistic must not be forgotten
when considering the one given in the first sentence of this posting.

Anthony E. Anderson
Los Angeles, CA

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 2 Dec 1994 to 3 Dec 1994
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 23 messages totalling 857 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. HIST: Army Green Books (2)
  2. The Netherlands: Holocaust (3)
  3. Books: Heydrich's death
  4. INF: USN Chronology 12-04-94
  5. INF: 50 Years Ago - 05-DEC-1944
  6. The A-Bombs in Japan (2)
  7. Military Dictators vs Rivals: A Question (2)
  8. HIST: Trivia (2)
  9. Close Air Support in Normandy
 10. Weaps: Battleships
 11. VIRUS ALERT (fwd) (2)
 12. POL Doolittle Fliers
 13. Codebreakers...did they work?
 14. France: Holocaust
 15. VIRUS ALERT
 16. Doolittle B-25 In Russia

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Dec 1994 22:09:00 UTC
From:    "Edward S. Miller" <e.miller4@GENIE.GEIS.COM>
Subject: HIST: Army Green Books

John Davis asks

  > about the Army green books - 1) How many volumes are there and can
  > someone supply me a list of the various titles?

As I recall there are over 100, divided into four series: Europe, Pacific,
War Dept., and Technical Services.  I don't have a list.  They are long out
of print.  Recently a publisher called the National Historical Society (PO
Box 975, Hicksville, NY 11802-9732) began offering reprints of at least
eight of the most popular volumes, maybe more.  For a full list you might
try the US Army Center for Military History, DAMH_ZC. Bldg 159, S.E. Federal
Center, Washington DC 20394-5088, 202-475-7800.

  > 3) Did the Navy do any type of similar project? I know about Samuel
  > Eliot  Morison's series of course, but I'm wondering if the Navy had an
  > "official"  series like the green books.

  No.  Morison's was the only "official operational history."  It was
authorized by FDR and SecNav Knox in 1942. I think Morison was an old friend
of the president.  He was given a rear-admiral's commission and free rein in
the fleet.  I suspect the navy, being better at P.R. than the army, realized
the value of am elegantly written history by a famous maritime historian.
The TV series "Victory at Sea" later evolved from it.
  In 1943 a second effort was authorized to document the naval
administrative side of the war under Robert Albion.  Therefore there exist
approximately 300 bound typescript volumes called United States Naval
Adminstrative Histories of World War II. They were written by naval staffs
during and right after the war.  They can be seen at the Navy Dept. Library,
Naval Historical Center, Washington Navy Yard, Wash. DC 20374, 202-433-4131.
Microfilm or microfiche copies can be gotten through interlibrary loan or
purchase.  You can probably get the 219 pp Guide to the volumes by asking
for it.  Other copies of the books may exist somewhere.

  > Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hope this helps.

Edward Miller   e.miller4@genie.geis.com

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 00:28:42 -0500
From:    David Rising <drising@ACS.BU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Netherlands: Holocaust

On Sat, 3 Dec 1994, Anthony Anderson wrote:

> On Fri, 2 Dec 1994, David Rising wrote:
>
> > In terms of largest % of Jewish population given up, I think Holland was
> > the worst of the Western occupied countries (Denmark being the best).

-much of Anthony's interesting post deleted-
>
> It is also true that there were some Dutch who did actively collaborate
> with the Germans, including those assisted them with the persecution of
> the Jews. But the percentage of such people was very small. Within
> Israel commemoration has been made of "righteous Gentiles", that is, those
> people who risked their own lives during the time of the Holocaust to save
> Jews. It is the Dutch who make up the greatest number of these
> "righteous Gentiles" and this statistic must not be forgotten
> when considering the one given in the first sentence of this posting.

Anthony, I think that it is also true that Holland was the only occupied
country to actually rise up against the persecution of the Jews (to no
avail). I wasn't meaning to imply anything anti-Dutch, just pointing out
the stats. Certainly Denmark, with a much smaller and more assimilated
Jewish population (and a convenient border with neutral Sweden) didn't
face anywhere near the same problems that the Dutch did.
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 02:10:53 -0600
From:    "William L. Huber - SAA" <whuber@SADIS01.KELLY.AF.MIL>
Subject: Books: Heydrich's death

> homeland under the direct orders of the exile Czek government.
> There's one excellent account of their mission in, THREE MEN AT DAYBREAK.

Another good book about the operation is _The Assasination of
Heydrich_.

Cheers, Bill Huber / whuber@sadis01.kelly.af.mil

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 04:00:17 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 12-04-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
12/04 Mon.  United States naval vessel damaged:
             Destroyer DRAYTON (DD-366), by horizontal bomber,
              Leyte area, P. I.,
              10 d. 00'N., 125 d. 00'E.
            Japanese naval vessels sunk:
             Destroyers KISHINAMI and IWANAMI, by submarine
              FLASHER (SS-249), South China Sea,
              13 d. 12'N , 116 d. 37'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 05:38:59 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 05-DEC-1944

On 05-DEC-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the US 1st Army sector, the 104th Division holds against
strong German counterattacks in Lucherberg. In the US 3rd Army sector, the
95th Division continues to attack toward Saarlautern-Roden and Fraulautern,
without making much progress. The 5th Division captures Lauterbach without
a fight. The 4th Armoured Division crosses the creek at Domfessel and
pushes north towards Rohrbach-les-Bitche, an important communications
center, but is halted with heavy losses short of Bining. The US 7th Army
begins a general attack northwards toward the Maginot Line.

Eastern Front - Forward elements of the 3rd Ukraine Front reach Lake
Balaton.

Italian Front - The Polish II Corps captures M. Rinaldo. The 46th Division
continues to make slow progress against the Pideura ridge. In the Canadian
I Corps area, the 1st Division is forced to abandon its bridgehead across
the Lamone.

Philippines (Leyte) - The US 6th Army begins its offensive against Ormoc.
Japanese suicide planes seriously damage two US destroyers off Leyte.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "Facts On File Yearbook 1944,
Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica and "Time" magazine.

Copyright 1994 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 08:57:10 +0001
From:    Ira H Krakow <ikrakow@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: Re: The Netherlands: Holocaust

On Sun, 4 Dec 1994, David Rising wrote:

> On Sat, 3 Dec 1994, Anthony Anderson wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 2 Dec 1994, David Rising wrote:
> >
> > > In terms of largest % of Jewish population given up, I think Holland was
> > > the worst of the Western occupied countries (Denmark being the best).
>
> -much of Anthony's interesting post deleted-
> >
> > It is also true that there were some Dutch who did actively collaborate
> > with the Germans, including those assisted them with the persecution of
> > the Jews. But the percentage of such people was very small. Within
> > Israel commemoration has been made of "righteous Gentiles", that is, those
> > people who risked their own lives during the time of the Holocaust to save
> > Jews. It is the Dutch who make up the greatest number of these
> > "righteous Gentiles" and this statistic must not be forgotten
> > when considering the one given in the first sentence of this posting.
>
> Anthony, I think that it is also true that Holland was the only occupied
> country to actually rise up against the persecution of the Jews (to no
> avail). I wasn't meaning to imply anything anti-Dutch, just pointing out
> the stats. Certainly Denmark, with a much smaller and more assimilated
> Jewish population (and a convenient border with neutral Sweden) didn't
> face anywhere near the same problems that the Dutch did.
> David Rising
>

This is my understanding of it.  The Dutch, being very meticulous
and precise, kept accurate records of all their citizens, *including*
their religious background.  The Nazis simply got the list and began
their roundups.  On the other hand, the French did not keep registration
of their citizens by religion.  The result was that a much larger
percentage of Jews survived in France than in Holland.

   Makes you wonder about the potential for all the databases on the
Internet, doesn't it?

Ira Krakow

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 10:26:49 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: The A-Bombs in Japan

Hello, Emmanuel!

Just wanted to add a piece of info on your fine post. I would also
like to add some thoughts to the original post.

    Referencing the question on why we don't hear more about the side
effects of the radiation emitted from those bombs, the fact is, that
the survivors of the A-bombs have been closely monitored since the
end of the war, to check on the progress or the development of any
side effects from the radiation. To date, there are still Japanese
dying from the effects of the bombs. Every now and then you will hear
about this, but, I grant, it is seldom.

    Not only deaths from direct radiation, but also, cancers, birth
defects of offspring, etc.


> These two
bombs were airbursts, i.e. they exploded in the air above the
> city.

    Yes, at a height of 1600 feet. This height was judged to yield
the maximum coverage for blast and radiation effect.



> Hiroshima and Nagasaki used to be the primary areas of research for the
> long-term effects of radioactive contamination, but such research is
> extremely difficult. People are also subject to natural background
> radioactivity (especially in mountaineous countries), medical X-rays,
> chemicals and such.

    Perhaps. But the survivors were identified, or at least as many
as possible, and, as you say, are carefully monitored.

    Thanks, Emmanuel.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 13:43:19 -0500
From:    chris garcia <moonie@AMANDA.DORSAI.ORG>
Subject: Military Dictators vs Rivals: A Question

After Desert Storm, the governament published several books on the
history and anaylsis of events there.  I read one called"Desert Storm",
which at the end posited an interesting observation, and I'd liketo get
some feedback on how this applies to the dictators of WWII.

The book said that one of the criticial reasons fopr Saddam Husseins
defeat lays in the fact that he was a military dictator fighting against
a free democracy.  As a military dictator (Think also of Stalin and
Hitler) he was obliged to weed out and destroy any rivals who might
emerge to seize power from him.  For a military dictator his natural
enemies are military leaders who show aggressive intelligence and
leadership.  One by one he made trumped up charges against the men who
might have been his own Douglas MacArthurs and Norman Schwarzkopfs and
executed them.  So when he was faced with a Norman Schwartzkopf (how DO
you spell that??) across his own border, he had already lobotomized his
military machine so that it was completely dependant on his own poor
abilities.

I was reading Clash of Wings, about the air wars in WWII and I wonder if
there are similar parralells.  This is what I think:  (Tell me if you
agree or disagree with this: )  Stalin purged many of his military
leaders.  The miracle for Russia is that brilliant generals emerged after
the fighting began. Hitler on the other hand held ontp his generals, who
had been developing the German war machine long before he came on the
scene.  Goering was becoming incompetetnt dur to his drug addiction,
Ernest Udet was never fit for administrative work in the Luftwaffe.  To
his credit he knew it and fought it, but was put in charge of things
under Goering anyway.  Hitler and Goering's brilliant Generals began
winning victory after victory in the face of a hesitant allied
opposition.  But when America joined and the allies began to play
hardball, the war turned against Germany.  Then it seems to me that
because Hitler didn't do the Saddam-Hussein-Thing, he suddenly had people
planting time bombs on his airplane, and in briefcases left at staff
meetings.  Goering ran into the fighter pilot's mutiny of 1945 that
resulted in the dismissal and house arrest of General der Jagdflieger
Adolf Galland.

Is it too optimistic to think that military dicators are doomed in the
face of modern democracy, because they will either have to purge their
best and brightest, or end up facing conspiracies from them?

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 13:47:06 -0500
From:    chris garcia <moonie@AMANDA.DORSAI.ORG>
Subject: Re: The A-Bombs in Japan

On Fri, 2 Dec 1994, Michael Andrew Turton wrote:

>         They Japanese people DO have radiation-related health
> problems, as even the most cursory glance at any A-Bomb related
> material could tell you, Ollie@Bluejay.creighton.edu.  At least,
> those Japanese who had the misfortune to live in Hiroshima and
> Nagasaki.......
>
> turtom@rpi.edu
>
I think Ollie was referring to the modern generation of japanese who live
in the cities of Nagasaki and Hiroshima on what theoretically ought to be
irradiated ground.  If you can't live in Chernobyl, why can you safely
rent an apartment at ground zero Hiroshima?  Today, that is.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 14:21:21 -0500
From:    Lee Windsor u <wind6011@MACH1.WLU.CA>
Subject: Re: Military Dictators vs Rivals: A Question

Hello Chris!

On Sun, 4 Dec 1994, chris garcia wrote:
>
> The book said that one of the criticial reasons fopr Saddam Husseins
> defeat lays in the fact that he was a military dictator fighting against
> a free democracy.  As a military dictator (Think also of Stalin and
> Hitler) he was obliged to weed out and destroy any rivals who might
> emerge to seize power from him.  For a military dictator his natural
> enemies are military leaders who show aggressive intelligence and
> leadership.  One by one he made trumped up charges against the men who
> might have been his own Douglas MacArthurs and Norman Schwarzkopfs and
> executed them.  So when he was faced with a Norman Schwartzkopf (how DO
> you spell that??) across his own border, he had already lobotomized his
> military machine so that it was completely dependant on his own poor
> abilities.

> Is it too optimistic to think that military dicators are doomed in the
> face of modern democracy, because they will either have to purge their
> best and brightest, or end up facing conspiracies from them?
>
This is an interesting theory, but I think it suffers from one
significant flaw.  While leadership is undoubtedly a crucial factor in
the outcome of wars, it is only one.

First of all, given the overwhelming Allied superior firepower, mobility,
training and technology, to name a few, I would think that even if Iraq's
army had not been robbed of some of its best leadership, it would have
still been unable to resist effectively.

Secondly, I don't know how much emphasis can be put on operational
leadership in WWII, although it is not unimportant, given the massive
amounts of human and material resources that were brought to bear by the
Allies on the comparatively weak Axis forces.  Once the battle was joined
by both the Soviets, Americans, and the Commonwealth(Being Canadian I had
to add that) it became increasingly difficult to concieve of any kind of
Axis victory.

Generals are key players in the overall outcome, but their influence
should not overshadow that of their soldiers and the industrial capacity
of the countries for which they fight.  I'm not dismissing your argument
however, I think one can make a strong case for the impact of harsh
dictatorial rule on a nation's military effectiveness.

Great topic!

Semper Fi

Lee

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 14:57:33 -0500
From:    Warren Thompson <THOMPSON@ACAD.LVC.EDU>
Subject: HIST: Trivia

"Old Exterminator": Name of USAAF Col Robert L. Scott's P-40 in the early days
of WWII. Serial #: 41-1496. Scott wrote the book GOD IS MY CO-PILOT, which
became a movie in 1945.

{Source: McCombs & Worth, WORLD WAR I: 4,139 STRANGE AND FASCINATING FACTS.}

-- Warren Thompson

thompson@acad.lvc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 15:04:00 -0500
From:    Warren Thompson <THOMPSON@ACAD.LVC.EDU>
Subject: HIST: Trivia

Charles Thomas: US Army captain. The first living black to be awarded the DSC
in WWII (March '45).

Source: McCombs and Worth.

-- Warren Thompson

thompson@acad.lvc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 30 Nov 1994 14:22:00 UTC
From:    genie-postmaster@GEIS.COM
Subject: Re: Close Air Support in Normandy

Original Msg Id: Not Found
genie-postmaster response to your message

    Subject: Re: Close Air Support in Normandy
    System:  QUIK-COMM
    Date:    Wed 30-Nov-94 14:22

Status: 5   Message picked up by receiving system and
            delivered to all recipients with NO exceptions.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 30 Nov 1994 06:16:00 UTC
From:    genie-postmaster@GEIS.COM
Subject: Re: Weaps: Battleships

Original Msg Id: Not Found
genie-postmaster response to your message

    Subject: Re: Weaps: Battleships
    System:  QUIK-COMM
    Date:    Wed 30-Nov-94  6:16

Status: 5   Message picked up by receiving system and
            delivered to all recipients with NO exceptions.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 15:43:32 -0600
From:    Monte Turner <msturner@UKANAIX.CC.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: VIRUS ALERT (fwd)

Anita Cohen-Williams; Reference Services; Hayden Library
Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ  85287-1006
PHONE: (602) 965-4579              FAX: (602) 965-9169
INTERNET: IACAGC@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU   Owner: HISTARCH
*** Forwarding note from H-LATAM --UICVM    12/04/94 09:20 ***
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          4 Dec 1994 09:20:03 -0700
Date:         Sun, 4 Dec 1994 11:22:09 -0400
Reply-To:     Latin American History discussion list <H-LATAM@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender:       Latin American History discussion list <H-LATAM@UICVM.BITNET>
From:         Jacquelyn Kent <HLATAM@snycorva.cortland.edu>
Subject:      VIRUS ALERT
X-To:         h-latam@uicvm.uic.edu
To:           Multiple recipients of list H-LATAM <H-LATAM@UICVM.BITNET>

Date: Sun, 04 Dec 1994 10:12:55 -0500
From: Germaine Warkentin <warkent@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>

 A virus is circulating on the Internet.  If you receive a message with
 the header "xxx-1" DO NOT READ IT.  Delete immediately or your disk will
 require treatment by a virus-scanner.  I have had two copies of this
 message this morning (Sunday) already, but was warned by an early
 morning phone call from a friend who got hit.

*******************************************************************************
Germaine Warkentin                                     warkent@epas.utoronto.ca
English, Victoria College, University of Toronto
*******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 17:42:23 -0600
From:    "Danny G. Cox" <dcox01@OZARKS.SGCL.LIB.MO.US>
Subject: POL Doolittle Fliers

Included in the John Davis' 50 Years Ago post of Thu, Dec 1st was the
following,

>The Homefront
>-------------
>Fliers Escape From Russia - It has been disclosed in Washington that five
>of the U.S. Army fliers who made the first raid on Tokyo in 1942 and then
>landed in Russia, where they were interned, are back in the United States
>after an "escape" from Russia. After several months of internment they were
>taken to a location near the Russian-Iranian border. One day they got into
>a truck and drove to Meshed, Iran and never returned.

I have been on this list for less than a year now but this is the second
time it has been mentioned about some ofthe Doolittle fliers being held by
the Russians.  I had not heard of this before, and would be
interested in hearing more about it.  Anything anyone on the list wants
to share about this would be welcome.  Like were there any more than
these five, and what were their names?  What kind of treatment did they
receive from the Russians, and what was the US government's reaction and
responce about this, etc?


+==============================+=============================================+
| DAN COX                      | "I have made this letter longer than usual, |
| REPUBLIC, MO                 | only because I have not had the time to     |
| dcox01@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us | make it shorter."--Blaise Pascal            |
+==============================+=============================================+

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 23:36:01 GMT+1
From:    SYSTEM OPERATOR <system@ABOUIS.FDN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Codebreakers...did they work?

"Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU> writes:

> > How well did the code-breakers work (whether that's Allied or Axis
> > codebreakers)? Anyone?

The Jap diplomatic code remained broken, but the naval one didn't : The
Japanese realized the problem after Midway and changed it.
Broken codes were many, and usually only for short periods (for the
same reason: armed forces changed them at regular intervals). Even the
Axis had some successes in this field.
All I can say without my references on hand, but I hope it wasn't totally
useless :-)

Cheers,
Arnaud.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 00:05:00 GMT+1
From:    SYSTEM OPERATOR <system@ABOUIS.FDN.ORG>
Subject: Re: The Netherlands: Holocaust

Anthony Anderson <anthonya@CHARON.USC.EDU> writes:

> Geography was certainly a major factor. On all sides of its borders
> Holland was surrounded by countries under Nazi control (including Germany
> itself.) Crossing the North Sea to England was not a viable option.
> Once Holland had been invaded there was no real place to which Dutch Jews
> could flee outside the country. And within the Netherlands the country's
> absence of mountains and real forests greatly restricted the options for
> people needing natural areas in which to hide themselves. The other


Very true. Geography was a factor of survival for the French Jews.
A great many fled to the rural hinterland and regions of
Southern France became refuges for large numbers of persecuted people.
There, away from the populated centers and the police, with forests nearby,
many hid for years.
Food could be obtained in rural areas as well (a not unimportant factor
of survival for a Jew in occupied Europe).
Marseilles and French North Africa became a haven for anti-fascist activists
and political refugees of all nationalities (including some Americans) until
the Germans came in late 1942 (there is a famous movie with Ingrid Bergman
and Humphrey Bogart on this subject).

Arnaud.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 20:32:40 -0600
From:    Drew Halevy <dhalevy@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: France: Holocaust

Drew Philip Halevy      |
Grad Student            | A boy has never wept,
Department of History   | nor dashed a thousand kim-
University of Arkansas  | Dutch Shultz's last words
DHALEVY@COMP.UARK.EDU   |

> Very true. Geography was a factor of survival for the French Jews.
A side note-A&E (or Discover I always confuse the two channels) is airing
a new series called France's Forgotten Shame-the promo has the voice over
saying that other coutries did it (turned Jews over to the Nazi's)
because they had to-France did it because she wanted to (or something to
that effect)-Drew

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 22:18:48 -0500
From:    Scott C Stathis <stathis@STUDENT.UMASS.EDU>
Subject: VIRUS ALERT

Forwarded message:
>From amp@student.umass.edu Sun Dec  4 21:30:24 1994
Date: Sun, 04 Dec 1994 21:30:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Annmarie Pennola <amp@student.umass.edu>
Subject: please read very carefully
To: stathis@student.umass.edu
Message-id: <199412050230.VAA01100@titan.ucs.umass.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
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Forwarded message:
>From sed@student.umass.edu Fri Dec  2 10:17:13 1994
From: sed@student.umass.edu
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 1994 10:16:51 -0500
Subject: please read very carefully
To: amp@student.umass.edu, faginski@student.umass.edu
Message-id: <01HK5XJIQOGOAUW3SW@phobos.ucs.umass.edu>
X-VMS-To: IN"amp@student.umass.edu", IN"faginski@student.umass.edu"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

From:   IN%"troysto@unix.cc.emory.edu"  "Tisha Melinda Royston"  1-DEC-1994 15:58:23.70
To:     IN%"marab@rpi.edu", IN%"Srinivas_Reddy@brown.edu", IN%"jstein@eniac.seas.upenn.edu", IN%"sed@student.umass.edu", IN%"bartob@rpi.edu", IN%"broskm@rpi.edu", IN%"hrjackso@artsci.wustl.edu", IN%"mgordon@emerald.tufts.edu"
CC:
Subj:   IMPORTANT: VIRUS ON EMAIL!!!! (fwd)

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From: Tisha Melinda Royston <troysto@unix.cc.emory.edu>
Subject: IMPORTANT: VIRUS ON EMAIL!!!! (fwd)
To: marab@rpi.edu, Srinivas_Reddy@brown.edu, jstein@eniac.seas.upenn.edu,
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 12:51:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Laura C. Kaufman <lkauf02@unix.cc.emory.edu>
To: Tisha Melinda Royston <troysto@unix.cc.emory.edu>
Cc: Kathryn Alicia Kallison <kkallis@unix.cc.emory.edu>,
    Jennifer Kathleen Bennett <jbenn02@unix.cc.emory.edu>,
    Emily Hodson <ehodson@unix.cc.emory.edu>, marab@rpi.edu,
    rsandle@emory.edu, ellie klein <ek1899a@american.edu>
Subject: IMPORTANT: VIRUS ON EMAIL!!!! (fwd)

Sorry that this forward is so long, but it's for real so please take the
time to read it and forward it along to all of your friends.  I love you
guys, even you Brendan!  Laura

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 11:55:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Judith Lynn Golden <jlg7@acpub.duke.edu>
To: afram@indiana.edu, laurajl@umich.edu, clwest@artsci.wustl.edu,
    jbarron@midway.uchicago.edu, sk6r@andrew.cmu.edu, amyeif@umich.edu,
    lrgoodma@students.wisc.edu, rlhayon@students.wisc.edu,
    BS3134A@AMERICAN.EDU, mklotz@indiana.edu, asherr@indiana.edu,
    rsandle@emory.edu, lkauf02@emory.edu, jaklotz@indiana.edu,
    djhart@indiana.edu, meckler.10@osu.edu, lbrenne@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu,
    nhendric@indiana.edu, jrm17@cornell.edu,
    rsloane@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, spitzrs@uc.edu,
    jkmayers@artsci.wustl.edu, rebecca.davis@yale.edu
Cc: dc387594@oak.cats.ohiou.edu, krystal@guis2.circ.gwu.edu
Subject: IMPORTANT: VIRUS ON EMAIL!!!! (fwd)

PLEASE READ THIS!!! Apparently, this thing is real, and since I care
about you all so much, and your computer well-being, I passed along the
message.  Please pass it on to the many people I was too tired to
continue adding to the forwarding list!  Save them from computer
disasters!  Hopefully, this message will be helpful to us all.  Love, Judy

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 11:25:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Brian Grossman <abg1@acpub.duke.edu>
To: Anthony Acquaviva <aeacquav@mailbox.syr.edu>,
    Rich Specter <rspecter@r.imap.itd.umich.edu>,
    Hallie Bloch <hmb2@Lehigh.EDU>, Jason Stein <andrew1@imap1.asu.edu>,
    Jason Jackson <JJACKSON@STUDENT.Princeton.EDU>,
    Jeremy Kaber <jzkaber@mailbox.syr.edu>,
    Kim Usdin <kusdin@k.imap.itd.umich.edu>,
    Lindsey Lichtman <lbl@l.imap.itd.umich.edu>,
    Todd Soffian <tfletch@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>,
    Alex Maslow <rugby@leland.stanford.edu>,
    Meredith Belafsky <belafsky@b.imap.itd.umich.edu>,
    Chris Otmani <st948bqm@post.drexel.edu>, Renu Syal <res5@Lehigh.EDU>,
    Ben Neulander <neuy@n.imap.itd.umich.edu>,
    Jeffrey Wuhl <jaw4@acpub.duke.edu>
Cc: Aaron Lewis <alewis@acpub.duke.edu>, Amy Wang <aw6@acpub.duke.edu>,
    Chris Calhoon <cdc5@acpub.duke.edu>, Emily Sitrin <ecs5@acpub.duke.edu>,
    Emily Fentin <eef3@acpub.duke.edu>,
    Harriett Scott <hms3@acpub.duke.edu>,
    Jeffrey Harbert <jdh5@acpub.duke.edu>,
    Josh Lutzker <josher@acpub.duke.edu>,
    Judith Lynn Golden <jlg7@acpub.duke.edu>,
    James Keller Wortham <jkw2@acpub.duke.edu>,
    Kevin Dalal <kld1@acpub.duke.edu>, Aaron Lazar <asl4@acpub.duke.edu>,
    Meranee Phingbodhipakkiya <mp2@acpub.duke.edu>,
    Michael Kahn <mjk4@acpub.duke.edu>, Aaron Samuels <as10@acpub.duke.edu>,
    Rajeev Chopra <rkc1@acpub.duke.edu>,
    Rene Alexander <rla@acpub.duke.edu>, Trond Larsen <thl@acpub.duke.edu>,
    Tyrone Roy Lee Allison <tra2@acpub.duke.edu>,
    Jayme Beth Weiner <jbw1@acpub.duke.edu>,
    Tracey Rich <trich@acpub.duke.edu>,
    Kenny Friedman <kjfriedm@indiana.edu>
Subject: IMPORTANT: VIRUS ON EMAIL!!!! (fwd)

This is apparently for real, not like the other annoying shit I send you.
I deleted all of the forwarding, but a lot of people have seen it and it
isn't a joke, so be careful, and pass it on to your friends.
                              --Drew

Forwarded message
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Somebody is sending e-mail under the title "good times".  If you get anything
like this, DON'T DOWNLOAD THE FILE! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! It has a virus that
rewrites your hard drive, and you lose anything on your hard drive.  Please
be careful and forward this mail to anyone you care about, I have!
                                                     Dragonrock

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 22:19:34 -0500
From:    Scott C Stathis <stathis@STUDENT.UMASS.EDU>
Subject: VIRUS ALERT (fwd)

Forwarded message:
>From @uga.cc.uga.edu:owner-milhst-l@UKANVM.CC.UKANS.EDU Sun Dec  4 12:33:55 1994
Date: Sun, 04 Dec 1994 10:31:33 -0700
From: Anita Cohen-Williams <IACAGC@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU>
Subject: VIRUS ALERT
Sender: Military History <MILHST-L%UKANVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list MILHST-L <MILHST-L%UKANVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Reply-to: Military History <MILHST-L%UKANVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Message-id: <01HK8UXDR2IA007SXB@rfd.ucs.umass.edu>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Comments: Resent-From: Anita Cohen-Williams <IACAGC@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>
Comments: Originally-From: IACAGC@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

           PLEASE READ!!!

Anita Cohen-Williams; Reference Services; Hayden Library
Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ  85287-1006
PHONE: (602) 965-4579              FAX: (602) 965-9169
INTERNET: IACAGC@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU   Owner: HISTARCH
*** Forwarding note from H-LATAM --UICVM    12/04/94 09:20 ***
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          4 Dec 1994 09:20:03 -0700
Date:         Sun, 4 Dec 1994 11:22:09 -0400
Reply-To:     Latin American History discussion list <H-LATAM@UICVM.BITNET>
Sender:       Latin American History discussion list <H-LATAM@UICVM.BITNET>
From:         Jacquelyn Kent <HLATAM@snycorva.cortland.edu>
Subject:      VIRUS ALERT
X-To:         h-latam@uicvm.uic.edu
To:           Multiple recipients of list H-LATAM <H-LATAM@UICVM.BITNET>

Date: Sun, 04 Dec 1994 10:12:55 -0500
From: Germaine Warkentin <warkent@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>

 A virus is circulating on the Internet.  If you receive a message with
 the header "xxx-1" DO NOT READ IT.  Delete immediately or your disk will
 require treatment by a virus-scanner.  I have had two copies of this
 message this morning (Sunday) already, but was warned by an early
 morning phone call from a friend who got hit.

*******************************************************************************
Germaine Warkentin                                     warkent@epas.utoronto.ca
English, Victoria College, University of Toronto
*******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 22:55:28 -0500
From:    Bob Smart <wwii@SMART.COM>
Subject: Re: HIST: Army Green Books

> John Davis asks
>
>   > about the Army green books - 1) How many volumes are there and can
>   > someone supply me a list of the various titles?
>
> As I recall there are over 100, divided into four series: Europe, Pacific,
> War Dept., and Technical Services.  I don't have a list.  They are long out
> of print.  Recently a publisher called the National Historical Society (PO
> Box 975, Hicksville, NY 11802-9732) began offering reprints of at least
> eight of the most popular volumes, maybe more.  For a full list you might
> try the US Army Center for Military History, DAMH_ZC. Bldg 159, S.E. Federal
> Center, Washington DC 20394-5088, 202-475-7800.

They are not all out of print. Many are still available through the GPO. I know,
I visit the Laurel Maryland Distribution Center every month- 2 months to pick
some up as my budget allows.  Some are being reprinted in a 'Special 50th
Anniversery issue' that is paperbound.  There is a 'Readers Guide' which
provides a summary of each volume.

On a related note on my last trip I found the Army Air Force Chronology is back
in print! paperbound, unfortunatly but available again. the funny thing was I
happened to visit a second time a week after I was there and although I had
checked and it was 'unavailable' the first visit on the second I asked again on
a hunch and it was available.

>
>   > 3) Did the Navy do any type of similar project? I know about Samuel
>   > Eliot  Morison's series of course, but I'm wondering if the Navy had an
>   > "official"  series like the green books.
>
>   No.  Morison's was the only "official operational history."  It was
> authorized by FDR and SecNav Knox in 1942. I think Morison was an old friend
> of the president.  He was given a rear-admiral's commission and free rein in
> the fleet.  I suspect the navy, being better at P.R. than the army, realized
> the value of am elegantly written history by a famous maritime historian.
> The TV series "Victory at Sea" later evolved from it.

When I was doing some heavy research a long while ago I stumbled across
the ultimate copy of Morison. It is a hand corrected copy on file at the Naval
Historical Center at the Washington Navy Yard. I haven't been there for years
but it was sitting on a shelf in their reading room with corrections to the
last edition.

Also The GPO now has a seven volume (? that is how many is in the catalogue I
 have) History of the Army Air Forces in World War II. I picked up 1-5. They
are 'Prepared under the editorship of Wesley Frank Craven ( Princeton
University) and James Lea Cate ( University of Chicago)'  Although it is a GPO
book there is a University of Chicago copyright of 1950 ( renewed 1977)
The ones I have all run ~800 pages, heavily footnoted and pretty good maps, org
charts, etc. each volume was $21.00 - $23.00.  Hardbound of a quality similar
to the better Green Books.

Bob Smart ( bsmart@smart.com)

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Dec 1994 20:16:00 -0600
From:    George Bauer <george.bauer@CITYNET.COM>
Subject: Doolittle B-25 In Russia

Dan:

You asked about the Doolittle Raider B-25 that landed in Russia.
According to my infomation, the number 8 B-25, 44-2242, piloted by Captain Edward J. York, landed near Vladivostok, and the crew was
detained for 14 months untl they were smuggled out of Russia into Iran.  Seven raiders were captured by the Japanese, and as I remember 3 were executed, including Sgt. Harold Spatz from Lebo, Kansas, member of the ill fated crew number 16, who was executed on October 15, 1942.

As to 242, there is no record of it having been seen after landing, and it is unknown whether it survived the war.
 * RoboBOARD/FX 1.04

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 3 Dec 1994 to 4 Dec 1994
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Status: O

There are 48 messages totalling 1895 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Military Dictators vs Rivals: A Question (5)
  2. HIST: ARMY GREEN BOOKS
  3. INF: USN Chronology 12-05-94
  4. INF: 50 Years Ago - 06-DEC-1944
  5. TRIV: Hair/skin from Conc. Camp victims (2)
  6. Roechling Geschoss or fin-stabilized shells.
  7. Am I connected?
  8. TAC: Battle of Ormoc Bay (Part 1) (2)
  9. Cornelius Ryan
 10. Untold Stories f/TLD, Pt. 2
 11. nativity (2)
 12. INF: War Below Zero (4)
 13. Ryan/Hollywood at War
 14. PEARL HARBOR DAY (2)
 15. Tanks
 16. BOOKS was Re: INF: War Below Zero
 17. 50TH: HELPING THE (4)
 18. Last Pearl Harbor Ship
 19. Hitler vs Russia and the U.S.A (Was: Re: Military Dictators vs Rivals: A
     Question
 20. QUERY-Molotov's & Hirohito's Deaths (2)
 21. WHAT IF:  Seperate Peace on Eastern Front -- Hitler Replaced by Beck
 22. HUMOUR: Not WW2-L Related
 23. WHAT IF:  Seperate Peace on Eastern Front in 1943 (2)
 24. Molotov and the Stalin-era Old Guard
 25. TAC: Screening Missions
 26. WHAT IF: Seperate Peace on Eastern Front in 1943
 27. The Netherlands: Holocaust (2)
 28. Codebreakers...did they work?
 29. ARMY GREEN BOOKS (MISSING VOLUME)
 30. MEDIA: Great Escape
 31. 22d Hurtgen Conclusion

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 00:38:33 EST
From:    Cassady Craft <CCRAFT@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Military Dictators vs Rivals: A Question

Chris, even if we assume that the dictator-handicap is valid, you have to
consider that the nature of warfare has changed somewhat since 1944.  In most
wars, the US will not have 2 years (or even 6 months as the PGW) to prepare.
Second, most likely wars will not be fostered by powers bent on _world_
conquest, but by regional gains (or even local gains or punishment).  Thus,
the tempo of operations should perhaps be quickened.  Further, if Weapons
of Mass destruction become involved, then the dictator-handicap may well not
be a handicap, but an enabler.  Saddam's sensitivity to his own people's
suffering or international rebuke prevented him from launching ballistic
missiles on Iran, Israel, and Saudi Arabia, nor from gassing Iranian soldiers
and Iraqi Kurds.  On the other hand, many feel that it would be very difficult
for a US president to order a preemptive nuclear strike, or even to retaliate
against those who might use Weapons of mass destruction against US troops/
assets abroad considering the US overpowering might in conventional weaponry
and participation in several international regimes that decry such usage.

In the end, whether or not a dictator is handicapped by his own actions will
depend on a lot more than his dictator-ness.

Cassady Craft
Department of Political Science
University of Georgia
e-mail CCRAFT@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
or
CCRAFT@LANL.GOV

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 01:25:41 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <ben.frank@HIS.COM>
Subject: HIST: ARMY GREEN BOOKS

Ed, the Army Center of Military History has been reprinting in paperback form
some of the green series. The covers are very picturesque and they include the
maps which were included in the original series. By the way, Dean Allard gave a
very good presentation on Albion's naval history at Military Classics Seminar
last month and told the long and tortuous story of what Albion went through in
writing his official history. Cheers, Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 04:00:15 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 12-05-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
12/05 Tue. Submarine HAKE (SS-156) lands supplies on Panay, P.
           I.
           United States Naval Base, Tinian, Marianas Islands,
           is established.
            United States naval vessels damaged, Leyte area, P.
             I.:
             Destroyer DRAYTON (DD-366), by suicide plane,
              10 d. 10'N., 125 d. 20'E.
             Destroyer MUGFORD (DD-389), by suicide plane,
              10 d. 15'N., 125 d. 20'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 04:37:10 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 06-DEC-1944

On 06-DEC-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The 90th Division (US 3rd Army) crosses the Saar between
Rehlingen and Wallerfangen and establishes a small bridgehead near
Patchen-Dillingen. The 95th Division continues the battle for Saarlautern
and Roden, Fraulautern and Ensdorf. The 5th Division continues advancing
across the Saar. The 6th Armoured Division and the 35th Division reach the
west bank of the Saar between Grosbliederstraff and Wittrin.

Eastern Front - The Russian offensive in Hungary grows stronger.

Philippines (Leyte) - The efforts by the US 112th Cavalry to drive the
Japanese from the hills southeast of Limon are still unsuccessful. In the
south, the 7th Division pushes on towards Ormoc, capturing Balogo and Kang
Dakit. The 77th Division sails for the landing in Ormoc Bay. The Japanese
attack the Buri airfield.

Burma - The Japanese cross the river Shweli and advance on Tonk-wa, where
part of the Chinese 22nd Division are in position and the US 475th Regiment
is making its way.

The Homefront
-------------
Prisoners In US - War prisoners in the United States as of Dec. 1 totaled
359,247 - 305,648 Germans, 51,156 Italians and 2,443 Japanese.

Federal School Aid Urged - Dr. Alexander J. Stoddard, superintendent of
Philadelphia schools, has urged that the Federal government adopt a program
to spend more than $1,000,000,000 annually to provide adequate postwar
schooling.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "Facts On File Yearbook 1944,
Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica and "Time" magazine.

Copyright 1994 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 08:29:33 EST
From:    Roger Coon <coon@CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Re: TRIV: Hair/skin from Conc. Camp victims

Is anyone on the list familiar with the provenance of these items?  I
seem to recall that they rather mysteriously appeared after the war.
As for the soap story, I always found that one strained credibility
to an extreme.  Its difficult to imagine a situation where the need for
soap was so extreme that the emaciated bodies of concentration/death
camp victims were cooked down, even more so when one considers the
fuel situation in Germany.  Lets make it clear, I am not doubting the
holocaust and I am all too aware of the incredible barbarity visited upon
so many people by the Nazis.
Brad Coon

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 07:41:12 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Roechling Geschoss or fin-stabilized shells.

Hello to all!

I ran across a very interesting tidbit of info that deals with a type
of anti-concrete shell, the history of which I would like to post to
the list. Since there seemed to be some interest on the Gustav
Geraet, I thought this might be of similar interest. During the next
few days, I would like to post some info on this type of artillery
shell.

Here goes.



                         The Roechling Geschoss

The development of fin-stabilized shells in Germany was in pursuit of
three objects. To attain higher velocities by removing the resistance
of the rifling, to allow larger and higher capacity projectiles to be
more easily stabilized, and to be able to fire unspun projectiles
from rifled guns. The first important fin-stabilized projectile
developed in Germany, however, fitted none of these categories. This
was the Roechling Geschoss or Roechling anti-concrete shell,
development which ahd begun well before the war-as a private venture
by Roechling Eisen and Stahlwerk of Duesseldorf.

The development of anti-concrete projectiles as a distinct class of
shell, was a phenomenon of continental Europe. With massive concrete
fortifications on every border and memories of the fate of the
Belgian forts of 1914, the attack of concrete was considered for
various weapons. These were much the same as armor piercing shells
but had plain conical heads covered by ballistic caps and were made
of steel of almost 45 tons per square inch yield strength.

More tomorrow, and hope this is of interest.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 08:46:00 EST
From:    "Klepacz, Christopher" <ck@CCSPO.DAYTONOH.NCR.COM>
Subject: Am I connected?

Hi.  I thought I signed up to this mailing list correctly, but I have yet to
receive a mailing.  Is this group operative, or have I messed up.

Please advise.

Thanks

chris

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 09:14:16 -0500
From:    Ron Babuka <wrb1@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: TAC: Battle of Ormoc Bay (Part 1)

In the USN Chronology, for the 12/3/44 there was the following posting.

1944
12/03  Sun  United States naval vessel sunk:
             Destroyer COOPER (DD-695), by torpedo from
              undetermined source, Ormoc Bay, P. I.,
              10 d. 54'N., 124 d. 36'E.
            United States naval vessels damaged, Ormoc Bay, P.
             I.:
             Destroyer ALLEN M. SUMNER (DD-691), by horizontal
              bomber.
              10 d. 54'N., 124 d. 36'E.
             Destroyer MOALE (DD-693), by naval gunfire,
              10 d. 54'N 124 d. 36'E.
            Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             Destroyer KUWA, by naval gunfire, Ormoc Bay, P. I.,
              10 d. 50'N., 124 d. 35'E.
             Coast defense vessel NO. 64, by submarine PIPEFISH
              (SS-388), South China Sea,
              18 d. 36'N., 111 d. 54'E.

On December 3, 1994 my father lifted a glass of his favorite spirits, as he
done for the last 45 years to his friends and comrades who did not make
survive this action as did my father.  In order to put a personal face on
naval combat from the sailors perspective, (to complement the fine postings
from soldiers and marines) I decided to post the accounts of Gene Anderson,
who was a fire control technician on the starboard 40mm gun mount on the
Allen M. Sumner (DD-692) during this battle.  On that night my father was
the fire control technician on the port 40mm gun mount and has recalled
many of the same thoughts.  This story apppeared in Sea Combat magazine,
the issue of which I do not know (also this article is posted without the
authors permission, and should be used only for education and discussion
within this list). Any typos or grammatical errors are most likely mine and
not the authors ;)


Nightmare in Ormoc Bay by Gene Anderson


The naval action on the night of December 1-2 1944 on Ormoc Bay during the
Second Battle of the Philippines consisted of three U.S. Navy destroyers
being ordered into the bay on which had appeared to be a minor skirmish;
however, winding up being desperately outnumbered and having to fight a
large Japanese fleet supported by its own unopposed air force and shore
batteries.
        General MacArthur's Intelligence Staff had reported to the
Commander or the Seventh Fleet that the Japanese were desperately
attempting to reinforce their beleaguered troops on Leyte through Ormoc Bay
by sending in several lightly armed troops ships convoyed by a lone
destroyer escort.  Orders were sent to Admiral Kaufman, Commander
Philippines Sea Frontier, to sink that convoy.  He selected my ship, the
USS Allen M. Sumner (DD-692) and two of her sister class, the Moale
(DD-693) and the Cooper (DD-695), to do the job.  He felt that these ships
would be just right to sink this reinforcement as these ships could bring
to bear a total of twelve 5-inch .38 caliber guns from their forward
battleship type turrets while only showing their thin bows to the enemy.
        These destroyers were new in the fleet and were considered the
worlds most heavily armed ships of their kind.  These 2200 tonners carried
in their 369 foot length three sets of twin 5-inch guns, two sets of twin
and two sets of quad 40mm cannons, eleven 20mm cannons, two sets of 5-tube
each 21-inch torpedoes, depth charges, and the very latest in radar and
radar fire control.  This was to prove invaluable on this raid.
        At the time they were assigned to the mission, the ships were
untried for this type of an operation, having served only on training duty
and as escorts with the Third Fleet Fast Carrier Task Force.  The operation
would be new to most of the  crew fresh out of boot camp and Midshipmen
school.  I recall we approached it with great apprehension, particularly
after witnessing kamikaze attacks which had just begun in the Philippines.
        Shortly after sundown, we got underway from Leyte Gulf to go on
this "surprise" mission.  It had rained heavily that day, and poor weather
had kept our promised air cover grounded at Tacloban airstrip. At departure
the weather had turned to gray, misty overcast.  After an hour out, a
single enemy plane ducked under the overcast and was immediately shoot down
in flames leaving a smoking marker in the famous Surigao Straits where a
Japanese fleet lay sunk after a recent sea battle.  It was believed that
this aircraft may have radioed our position before being hit; however, in
spite of this and the many reported enemy aircraft in the area, we
continued under way.
        I was in a good position to witness the coming event as my battle
station was out on a deck as a director operator of a Mark 14 director that
aimed and fired the starboard quad 40 mount which was located just aft of
the number two stack.  I was fortunate to have an excellent gun crew to
operate and load this weapon.
        As we proceeded toward Ormoc Bay, the overcast had changed to a
light milky haze which diffused the light from a full moon.  Traveling at
30 knots, our huge wakes had activated the phosphorus in the water which in
turn had brilliantly illuminated us from the air and from the surface.
Being so, it was hard to believe that this raid was going to be any sort of
surprise.  This became apparent about an hour before midnight when Air
Search radar picked up an unidentified aircraft astern which had apparently
followed our brilliant wake.
        Upon hearing the vector, I brought my gun to bear in that
direction.  A minute or so later, I spotted a dark shadow in the light haze
and began to track it.  When I recognized it as a "France" type twin engine
Japanese bomber, I closed the firing key without orders from the bridge.  I
got off about 30 rounds when the bridge ordered a cease fire in fear that
my tracers would give away both our positions and intent to the enemy.
        There was a period of about ten seconds from the time the cease
fire order was given to when I saw of our starboard bow, a large ugly red
flash which was immediately followed by an extremely loud metallic bang and
by a cascade of water which wet down our entire starboard side of our ship.
 Following this cascade were noises which sounded similar to hail beating
on a tin roof.  This was shrapnel hitting the sides and superstructure of
the ship.  The shrapnel wounded 14 of our crew, started a fire in a forward
20mm locker which was quickly extinguished, and made a sieve out of our bow
just above the waterline.
        The bomb had been scheduled for our bridge, and if it had hit
there, it would have killed everyone, and possibly those on the decks
below.  However, it was later believed that the tracers from my gun may
have jarred the pilot's aim enough to cause him to miss.  During the ten
seconds or so between the cease fire order and the explosion, the skipper
was demanding to know with court martial in his voice who gave the order to
fire.
        It was the fear of court martial which gave me the courage for the
coming night's action, as I was more afraid of that than the enemy, proving
the fear of military discipline and the strength of its training.


Tomorrow part II "entering the bay to a bag of surprises"




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka
Cornell University
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 09:31:27 EST
From:    Doug McCabe <mccabe@OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cornelius Ryan

                   Ohio University Electronic Communication


   Date:  05-Dec-1994 09:27am EST

     To:  Remote Addressee                     ( _MX%"WWII-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU" )

   From:  Doug McCabe                                Dept:  Library
          MCCABE                                   Tel No:  (614) 593-2715

Subject:  Re: Cornelius Ryan


    To Tony and interested others:  _The Last Battle_ and _A Bridge Too
    Far_ are in the process of reprint now and will be released by a
    division of Simon and Schuster in the spring, timed to the anniversary
    of VE-Day.  I assume they will be printed in hardback and well as
    paperback just like _The Longest Day_ was done last spring.  (We are
    providing the photos and maps.)

    Doug
    Cornelius Ryan Collection
    Ohio University Archives and Special Collections



Received:  05-Dec-1994 09:31am

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 06:53:52 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: TAC: Battle of Ormoc Bay (Part 1)

Would you mind if I captured this post and store it out in the "50 Years
Ago" archives? I would put the same disclaimer on it that you did, that it
should be used for educational purposes only.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 10:31:17 -0500
From:    chris garcia <moonie@DORSAI.DORSAI.ORG>
Subject: Re: Military Dictators vs Rivals: A Question

On Sun, 4 Dec 1994, Lee Windsor u wrote:

> Hello Chris!
>
> On Sun, 4 Dec 1994, chris garcia wrote:
> >
> > The book said that one of the criticial reasons fopr Saddam Husseins
> > defeat lays in the fact that he was a military dictator fighting against
> > a free democracy.  As a military dictator (Think also of Stalin and
> > Hitler) he was obliged to weed out and destroy any rivals who might
> > emerge to seize power from him.  For a military dictator his natural
> > enemies are military leaders who show aggressive intelligence and
> > leadership.  One by one he made trumped up charges against the men who
> > might have been his own Douglas MacArthurs and Norman Schwarzkopfs and
> > executed them.  So when he was faced with a Norman Schwartzkopf (how DO
> > you spell that??) across his own border, he had already lobotomized his
> > military machine so that it was completely dependant on his own poor
> > abilities.
>
> > Is it too optimistic to think that military dicators are doomed in the
> > face of modern democracy, because they will either have to purge their
> > best and brightest, or end up facing conspiracies from them?
> >
> This is an interesting theory, but I think it suffers from one
> significant flaw.  While leadership is undoubtedly a crucial factor in
> the outcome of wars, it is only one.
>
> First of all, given the overwhelming Allied superior firepower, mobility,
> training and technology, to name a few, I would think that even if Iraq's
> army had not been robbed of some of its best leadership, it would have
> still been unable to resist effectively.
I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure I agree with it.
There's a lot of talk these days that America was materially superior to
Irag from beginning to end, Irag was a third rate banana army and never
had a chance.  But most of the stuff I've read, especially government
issue, shows Iraq had a material advantage over us right up to the
beginning of the air war.  One thing is undebateable- during the "Desert
Shield" phase when the US and the allies were still gathering material
and negotiating with the Saudi's over air bases, Irag had a terrible
advantage over us.  If Hussein had attacked Arabia around September or
October, the US would have suffered a humiliating defeat and the
situation in mideast would have gotten very complicated.  Paradoxically,
as vicious and aaggressive as Hussein was, he was not aggressive ENOUGH
for what the situation really demanded.  He sat on his haunches huffing
and puffing and making threats instead of taking decisive action to
defeat his opponent before the forces were in place against him.  This
brings us back to Hitler.  The axis forces in the early stage of WWII
were largely bluff.  The Luftwaffe especially was never adequate to fight
a war on several fronts, and I'm sure when Hitler declared war on Russia
and then the US, it must have just made his Generals' hairs stand on end.
HItler got into this "Macbeth" thing where you just have to keep on
taking over country after country for the sake of securing your borders-
and then where does it stop?  You end up fighting a war on three
different fronts until your war machine begins to disintegrate.  Then
when your generals see the disaster coming they start leaving time bombs
in brief cases in staff meetings.  Guys like Genghis Khan and Napolean
must look down from Valhalla or whatever and say  "It just not like it
was in the old days."



>
> Secondly, I don't know how much emphasis can be put on operational
> leadership in WWII, although it is not unimportant, given the massive
> amounts of human and material resources that were brought to bear by the
> Allies on the comparatively weak Axis forces.  Once the battle was joined
> by both the Soviets, Americans, and the Commonwealth(Being Canadian I had
> to add that) it became increasingly difficult to concieve of any kind of
> Axis victory.
>
Most of the German vets I've read or corresponded with pretty much agree
with that.  The best they could hope for was to survive to a negotiated
peace.  Very few of them thought of winning after about 1944.  That was
when many of them began to loose faith in Hitler and Goering.   Those
that had faith to begin with.  They thought "When is this thing going to
stop?"


> Generals are key players in the overall outcome, but their influence
> should not overshadow that of their soldiers and the industrial capacity
> of the countries for which they fight.  I'm not dismissing your argument
> however, I think one can make a strong case for the impact of harsh
> dictatorial rule on a nation's military effectiveness

That's the mystery to me.  Hussein thought that a war can't last for long
in a democracy with a free press.  I think that's true.  I think the
Pentagon thought that was true also, since they strangled the press at
birth as soon Desert Storm began.  The only way if if there is something
clealry at stake, and a politician has to develop that awareness in the
public as Roosevelt so carefully did in 1941.

That's for your reply!  Let's have another one.




Great topic!
>
> Semper Fi
>
> Lee
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 11:18:30 EST
From:    Doug McCabe <mccabe@OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU>
Subject: Untold Stories f/TLD, Pt. 2

                   Ohio University Electronic Communication


   Date:  21-Oct-1994 03:27pm EST

     To:  Remote Addressee                     ( _MX%"WWII-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU" )

   From:  Doug McCabe                                Dept:  Library
          MCCABE                                   Tel No:  (614) 593-2715

Subject:  Untold Stories f/TLD, Pt. 2


    [I suppose it takes vets and certain bent people to appreciate war
    humor usually because it's closer to gallows humor than the good clean
    stuff.  It can be hard for the uninitiated to take, I think, because
    they have not experienced the horror of war and therefore haven't
    needed the release even gross humor provides.]

         "A short while after landing, a Frenchman in a brass fireman's
    helmet asked if we had any chocolate.  One of our chaps said, 'My
    mate's got some in his bloody trousers.'  Of course, we all took it the
    wrong way and laughed like hell."
                        - DVR Covill, 77th Assult Sqd., Royal Engineers

         "One of the men in my platoon had gotten sick because of the rough
    sea plus the enemy fire.  He had to change under clothes so he done so
    on the beach with all enemy fire on all sides."
                                            - S/Sgt. Strojny, US 1st Div.

         "I walked up on a shell crater occupied by a BAR man - his weapon
    was at hand and ready for use, but this Yankee wa lying with his head
    cushioned on a folded-up brilliant red equipmentparachute.  His feet
    were elevated on the side of the crater and were encased in some
    positively frilly bedroom slippers."
                                            - Capt. Putnam, 82nd AB Div.

         "One of my men had stuffed his helmet so full of toilet paper that
    he could hardly keep it on his head.  (Toilet paper was a rare and
    vanuable commodity on the front line - and he didn't want to get it wet
    during the landing.)  This kid took a bullet through the center of his
    helmet.  He wasn't even scratched - but the toilet paper was converted
    into confetti.
         One of our sergeants got into a fire-fight and sent a message back
    to the command post: 'Send some men and ammunition or an honorary
    discharge _'cause_I_ain't_stayin'_here_alone!_'"
                                            - S/Sgt. Ellery, US 1st Div.

         "After I landed I was so scared I just lay there for a few
    minutes.  I finally cut off my chute and started down the hedgegrow to
    meet the rest of the team.  I thought I heard someone following me but
    I was too scared to look!  Finally after about 300 yards, I slipped a
    round into the chamber and whorled around to see what was following me.
    What had happened was that my chute was caught on my canteen and I was
    so scared I had dragged it about 300 yards without realizing it."
                        - M/Sgt. Copas, 377 F.A. Pathfinder, 101st AB Div.

         "There was Captain Reynolds with both arms broken and dripping
    blood still advancing and smoking cigarettes his troops had lit for
    him.  The joke was, he normally _didn't_smoke_at_all!"
                             - Lt. Aldworth, 48th Commando, Royal Marines

         "I was leading some men down the street in a town called
    Berniere-sur Mer.  A French girl threw a flower out a window.  All I
    saw was the white movement out of the corner of my eye.  We all dived
    for the ground and then felt silly afterwards."
                                  - Capt. Osborn, Royal Winnipeg Rifles

         "Some of our chaps didn't realize a smoke screen had been laid off
    shore.  Some of them started coughing.  Someone else jokingly said,
    'gas.'  There was a big panic looking for mislaid gas masks.  Johnny
    Walker, our unit comedian, could not find his.  So, we advised him to
    'make water' in a blanket, and, of course, several of the boys had to
    help him out.  Poor Jhonny had the unpleasant task of holding the
    blanket up to his face.  But he survived."
                             - Cpl. Cooksey, 875th Heavy Recovery Section

    Next, the airborne assult.

    Doug



Received:  05-Dec-1994 11:18am

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 11:24:20 -0500
From:    Keith Johnson <kjohnson@LIBBY.RBLS.LIB.IL.US>
Subject: Re: nativity

     Hi Ellen!

     My introduction to the German POW experience began years ago when I
discovered that my friend's father had spent the remainder of the war
interned in a POW camp in Canada. He had been captured in North Africa.
Then I found out that my hometown, Rockford, IL, had been host to
thousands of POW interned at Camp Grant. I've been studying this subject
for quite some time, first just in Illinois, now across the U.S. and Canada.
     For more information, I suggest the following books:

     1. Stalag, U.S.A. by Judith Gansberg

     2. Nazi prisoners of war in America by Arnold Krammer

     3. Hitler's last soldier in America by Arnold Krammmer

     Enjoy!

     Keith F. Johnson
     Moline Public Library
     Moline, IL

On Fri, 2 Dec 1994, Ellen Shepard wrote:

> I am interested in any other POW stories that took place in the U.S.  I know
> that German POW's worked for JR Reynolds in NC and there were POW's, Japanese
> and German, working in AZ.  Who knows any specifics?
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 11:27:48 EST
From:    Burt Knight <72241.2341@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: INF: War Below Zero

Someone in the group a while back requested information about a B17 which
crashed on the Greenland Icecap and stated they had an uncle on that plane.  I
have found my copy of 'War Below Zero' by Berndt Balchen, Oliver LaFarge and
Corey Ford, 1944.  I'll gladly post whatever sections are needed but would like
to hear from the original questioner.

DROOL time-  I found, at my local library in the Give-a-way books rack, the
following titles:
        Combined Operations, a History of the Commandos, first edition, 1943.
        Victory Thru Air Power, Major Alexander P. de Seversky, First
edition,1943

It pays to visit the library.  another 25 books, yet uncatalogued, await me at
home.  Apparently an estate donated the books and, if I hadn't picked them up,
the library was going to recycle them. 'Who would be interested in that old
stuff' the librarian told me.  BWK

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 11:39:56 -0500
From:    chris garcia <moonie@AMANDA.DORSAI.ORG>
Subject: Re: Military Dictators vs Rivals: A Question

On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Cassady Craft wrote:

> Chris, even if we assume that the dictator-handicap is valid, you have to
> consider that the nature of warfare has changed somewhat since 1944.  In most
> wars, the US will not have 2 years (or even 6 months as the PGW) to prepare.
> Second, most likely wars will not be fostered by powers bent on _world_
> conquest, but by regional gains (or even local gains or punishment).  Thus,
> the tempo of operations should perhaps be quickened.  Further, if Weapons
> of Mass destruction become involved, then the dictator-handicap may well not
> be a handicap, but an enabler.  Saddam's sensitivity to his own people's
Actually this is a really good point, which I haven't thought about for a
long time.  It's possible we may never see another big army-big war like
WWII.  Global politics have changed, and the nature of how wars are
fought have changed.  Clinton has been busily downsizing the military,
and big military contractor are changing their business in order to
survive.  It reminds me of the aircraft manufacturers in Germany at the
end of WWI, how they were scrambling to survive.  Fokker Flugzeugwerkes
got into making brass bedds and canoes I think.  Probably any war we have
now will be like Desert Storm- short, intense, high tech, and right in
your Mr. and Mrs. America living room.  Almost like entertainment.



> suffering or international rebuke prevented him from launching ballistic
> missiles on Iran, Israel, and Saudi Arabia, nor from gassing Iranian soldiers
> and Iraqi Kurds.  On the other hand, many feel that it would be very difficult
> for a US president to order a preemptive nuclear strike, or even to retaliate
> against those who might use Weapons of mass destruction against US troops/
> assets abroad considering the US overpowering might in conventional weaponry
> and participation in several international regimes that decry such usage.
>
> In the end, whether or not a dictator is handicapped by his own actions will
> depend on a lot more than his dictator-ness.
>
Yeah, but he'll still have this "Macbeth" problem as never being able to
trust anybody under him.  Dictators have always had this problem, and the
only defense I can see is to appeal to Nationalism or misguided religious
zealotry.  (And I say that as a religious person.)


> Cassady Craft
> Department of Political Science
> University of Georgia
> e-mail CCRAFT@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
> or
> CCRAFT@LANL.GOV
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 11:12:00 -0500
From:    Colin Brace <BRACEC@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ryan/Hollywood at War

          Tony,
               There is a small bookstore called Titcombs, I think, on Route
          6A in Sandwich, MA (Cape Cod) where I bought Ryan's LAST BATTLE for
          $6.00 in hardcover. So many good stories in that book. Don't know
          if they mail-order,their WWII section is small, but fairly good, I
          also got a 1940 Bluejacket manual there, in good condition, for
          something like $10.00. If you're on the Cape, it's worth a stop.

               On the Hollywood at War thread, there is a good interview with
          Eddie Albert in the latest issue of WORLD WAR 2.


          Colin Brace  WA1KWA

          bracec@a1.mgh.harvard.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 12:58:07 CCS
From:    Jorge Merino <jem@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: PEARL HARBOR DAY

> 1:00 p.m.       Ranger Kathy Hanley will share some of the most
> sophisticated technological marvels of the time which had
> their start aboard the USS Utah as she takes you "BACK TO
> THE FUTURE: THE USS UTAH - A SHIP AHEAD OF IT'S TIME."
> With the most advanced equipment and the best trained
> personnel the USS Utah helped prepare the military for
> World War II.  Despite all of the technological
> innovations, however, the USS Utah shared the same fate
> as the USS Arizona.

I would like to hear some more details about USS Utah. If someone has
a brief summary on her and want to share it with the list, I will
appreciate it very much. Thanks in advance,

Jorge Merino

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 12:03:49 -0500
From:    Lee Windsor u <wind6011@MACH1.WLU.CA>
Subject: Re: Military Dictators vs Rivals: A Question

Hey there Chris!

As this is the WWII list I won't dwell on the Irag thing too much, but
there is just one point I want to make.  Iraq may have had superiority in
numbers of machines and soldiers, however, look at the quality of both.
The example that sticks out most in my mind is that the bulk of Iraqi
tank strength consisted of T-55's.  As a Canadian tank crewman, I know
that even our worn out Leopards can take out a T-55 without any trouble.
The other issue is training.  with the exception of the Revolutionary
Guard, did the Saddam's army have the modern battle offensive doctrine
required for offensive ops against the Saudi's and what limited Allied
material was on the ground during the build up.  Pound for pound, the
Allied soldiers in the Gulf were much better trained and equipped, even if
out numbered, and our knowledge of WWII shows that it makes the difference.

> I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure I agree with it.
> There's a lot of talk these days that America was materially superior to
> Irag from beginning to end, Irag was a third rate banana army and never
> had a chance.  But most of the stuff I've read, especially government
> issue, shows Iraq had a material advantage over us right up to the
> beginning of the air war.

Now to the good stuff!

The axis forces in the early stage of WWII
> were largely bluff.  The Luftwaffe especially was never adequate to fight
> a war on several fronts, and I'm sure when Hitler declared war on Russia
> and then the US, it must have just made his Generals' hairs stand on end.
> HItler got into this "Macbeth" thing where you just have to keep on
> taking over country after country for the sake of securing your borders-
> and then where does it stop?

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment and point out that
Hitler's decision to invade Russia and declare war on the US, while
stretching the idea of rationality, did have some reasoning behind it.
British offensive capability(with the exception of Bomber Command) had
been eliminated for the time being by 1940.  Hitler could build up his
sea and air power to launch Sealion, or use his already powerful army on
Russia right away before Uncle Joe could finish his modernization
program.  As for the Americans, Hitler thought that by the time they
could reach the Continent in force, the Soviets would be toast.  Given
what the Germans _thought_ the Soviets had, it sounds almost sensible,
ALMOST!

food fo thought!

Lee Windsor, 8th Hussars

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 11:54:03 EST
From:    William Lippert <WL1958A@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Military Dictators vs Rivals: A Question

On Sun, 4 Dec 1994 13:43:19 -0500 chris garcia said:
>
>I was reading Clash of Wings, about the air wars in WWII and I wonder if
>there are similar parralells.  This is what I think:  (Tell me if you
>agree or disagree with this: )  Stalin purged many of his military
>leaders.  The miracle for Russia is that brilliant generals emerged after
>the fighting began. Hitler on the other hand held ontp his generals, who
>had been developing the German war machine long before he came on the
>scene.  Goering was becoming incompetetnt dur to his drug addiction,
>Ernest Udet was never fit for administrative work in the Luftwaffe.  To
>his credit he knew it and fought it, but was put in charge of things
>under Goering anyway.  Hitler and Goering's brilliant Generals began
>winning victory after victory in the face of a hesitant allied
>opposition.  But when America joined and the allies began to play
>hardball, the war turned against Germany.  Then it seems to me that
>because Hitler didn't do the Saddam-Hussein-Thing, he suddenly had people
>planting time bombs on his airplane, and in briefcases left at staff
>meetings.  Goering ran into the fighter pilot's mutiny of 1945 that
>resulted in the dismissal and house arrest of General der Jagdflieger
>Adolf Galland.


     I think the case of Adolf Hitler may be unique because, unlike Saddam
or Stalin, his power was based on the support of the military and the
performance of the military.  Saddam's regime was not going to rise and
fall with his wars, Hitler's probably would have.  Hitler put a great stock
in winning - as well as people who'd agree with him.  Thus, he had no
problem promoting eager and talented individuals - like Rommel.

William Lippert

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 12:58:54 EST
From:    "Patrick D. Marsden" <marsden@TEXAS.CPI.COM>
Subject: Re: INF: War Below Zero

>
> DROOL time-  I found, at my local library in the Give-a-way books rack, the
> following titles:
>         Combined Operations, a History of the Commandos, first edition, 1943.
>         Victory Thru Air Power, Major Alexander P. de Seversky, First
> edition,1943
>
> It pays to visit the library.  another 25 books, yet uncatalogued, await me at
> home.  Apparently an estate donated the books and, if I hadn't picked them up,
> the library was going to recycle them. 'Who would be interested in that old
> stuff' the librarian told me.  BWK
>

It most definitely does pay to stop by the old library.  About four
years ago I picked up, among others, both of the books you mentioned
at the yearly used-book sale.  At 25 cents a piece, I couldn't go home
without them.  I was intrigued by the copy of Mountbatten's signature
in the introduction/preface of _Combined Operations_.  I once saw a copy
of Seversky's book in a "speciality" book store selling for a modest
$55.  My last trip to the library ended with me taking home about 10
different volumes for a total $4.  Capitalism is great!

patrick


--
Patrick D. Marsden                      | Hitler's Wartime mistake, #17
Computational Physics, Inc.             |   "spent too much money on
Fairfax, Virginia                       |    screwdrivers and toilet
(703) 204-1301,  marsden@euler.cpi.com  |    seats."
>
> DROOL time-  I found, at my local library in the Give-a-way books rack, the
> following titles:
>         Combin

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 12:59:30 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <KILLAR@MARY.FORDHAM.EDU>
Subject: Re: INF: War Below Zero

About Victory through Airpower, I think my library got rid of their
copy the same time yours' got rid of theirs, because I picked
up the same book for 50 cents (YES!), but I wish they had had the
other too...  If you have any doubles, I would be interested in taking
them off of your hands...

John E. Kollar

killar@fordham.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 12:56:28 -0500
From:    QUACK <MUSCORJ@HSDWL.UTC.COM>
Subject: Re: INF: War Below Zero

Twas I. It was my mother's uncle and I think the name was Laskowski,Thomas.
It was written up in LIFE magazine and I think he was the radio operator.
I can't find the article in the conglomeration of Aviation and Radio papers,bokketc.
Any mention of the facts surrounding the rescue of the crew?
My father's brother was a Flight Engineer on a PBY Catalina flying out of
Venezuela on submarine patrol. They would throttle back the engines to 90 mph
and be gone a hell of a long time.

Ron Musco
"On the other side of Bradley International Airport from the Air Museum"

Hamilton Standard Division of United Aircraft (now United Technologies)
You know the old propeller people.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:06:32 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <KILLAR@MARY.FORDHAM.EDU>
Subject: Tanks

I found the refernce I was looking for for the M-26 Pershing heavy tank,
they had roughly 20 built by Jan 1945, and then rushed them to Europe,
eventually 2,438 had been built by Aug45, and a good number saw combat
ops, in one combat a Pershing killed 2 Pk-IVs and a Tiger.  They showed
up good against German Tanks, and I think that it was one of the best
designs of the war, no if we had them from early 44, that wouldd have
been interesting...  The M-26 mounted a 90mm main gun, 3.93" of
sloped armour, weighed 46.2 tons, and they killed many a T-34/85
in Korea.  The modern MBT came form this tank rather than the M4.

John E. Kollar

'The Illustrated History of Tanks'
Andy Lightbody, Joe Poyer
Publications Internationl, LTD

nice pictures, some good text (all of it printed 2x in different places)

BTW:anyone have any info on the French Gastogne, still waiting for stats...

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 10:12:28 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <riegsecker@UPS.EDU>
Subject: BOOKS was Re: INF: War Below Zero

At 11:27 AM 12/5/94 -0500, Burt Knight wrote:

>DROOL time-  I found, at my local library in the Give-a-way books rack, the
>following titles:
>        Combined Operations, a History of the Commandos, first edition, 1943.
>        Victory Thru Air Power, Major Alexander P. de Seversky, First
>edition,1943
>
>It pays to visit the library.  another 25 books, yet uncatalogued, await me at
>home.  Apparently an estate donated the books and, if I hadn't picked them up,
>the library was going to recycle them. 'Who would be interested in that old
>stuff' the librarian told me.  BWK

Yes.  Our city library has an annual sale of books they are discarding from
their holdings plus other books people donate.  I think the price is
usually 25 cents for paperback and 75 cents for hardcover.  I generally get
up to 20 books at this feeding frenzy.  Some group here at our university
puts on a flea market and there are always a lot of books.  I picked up a
1940 bluejacket manual for 25 cents. (Sorry about that to the person who
paid $10.00 :-) )

It may just be the fact that there are so many retired military here (Puget
Sound) but our used bookstores are full of books on WWII.  Someone was
asking about Cornelius Ryan books.  I got a _Bridge Too Far_ with dust
jacket that looks like it has never been read for $5.75 from Half-Priced
Books, a chain used book store.  I don't know if that was a bargain or not,
but I was happy with it.  If you live near a city of any size, visit the
antique shops and used bookstores -- you can often find some interesting
stuff.


John Riegsecker                                 (206) 756-3566
Dept of Mathematics and Computer Science        riegsecker@ups.edu
University of Puget Sound

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:14:26 EST
From:    Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: 50TH: HELPING THE

On Fri, 2 Dec 1994 07:37:00 -0500 Ben Frank said:
>It's a lot more than that, Ken. Alperovitz and his crew want to downsize the
>number of estimated casualties, insist that the dropping of the bomb was a
>racist thing, that we didn't give the Japs a chance to surrender as they
>wanted, and so on, all revisionist poppycock in the true Dutch meaning of the

Well, the casualty thing is pretty flakey to begin with, right?  Somebody
picked a "gut" number that felt good to him, it wended its way up the chain
of command, and the first you know, you're talking about hundreds of
thousands of lives.  But I don't think anybody ever tried to do a serious
projection of allied casualties, in the sense of o.r.  That's one of the
myths that true history has to weed out, right?

As for giving the Japanese a chance to surrender, depends on what you call
a chance and who gave it.  Both sides used the Soviets as intermediaries.
It was not exactly in their interests to encourage the Japanese to give up.
If you mean we warned them that they were going to be nuked, no, we did not.
I've seen the warning we issued before the bombing, and it's so damned
vague, compared to the event, as to be worthless.  If you mean something
else, tell me what you mean, and I'll tell you whether I think you are
wrong or right on the button.

>word. And to think that they have been having their own merry way teaching
>college kids this cant. I grow very angry thinking about it.It is not a matter
>of whether "only" 30,000 or 40,000 American casualties would result from the
>invasion,but the matter of just one American life being lost because we didn't
>drop the bomb. Also,they changers of historical fact seem to overlook the many
>Japanese lives which would have been lost had the invasion been mounted. These
>individuals seem to want to change the facts to meet their preconceived
>conclusions. Ben Frank

Well, if the standard to be upheld is as severe as "just one life", then--
granting that you can call Hiroshima a military target, and granting that
you can instantly obliterate tens of thousands of lives, most of them
civilians who weren't armed, and a good half of them women and children
in the first place, granting that you can condemn other thousands to pretty
ghastly ailments, disfigurements, diseases & cancers--granting all that, what
possible standard of morality can ever justify subjecting the as-yet-unborn
to such fates?

As for preconceived conclusions, isn't that what you've just done in
concluding that an invasion would necessarily have taken place w/o the bomb?
It didn't buy us anything extra in surrender terms afterwards than we had
before the bombing, you know.  Do you really think the Japanese would have
surrendered w/o the home waters mining campaign, or the spring raids?  Those
were far more important inducements to the "peace faction" in the government
than the bomb, IMHO.

ken koester
maint2@ers.bitnet

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 14:00:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Last Pearl Harbor Ship

The following Associated Press article was in the 5 Dec 94 issue of the
TRENTON (New Jersey) TIMES.

On the morning of 7 Dec 41, one of the ships in Pearl Harbor was the Harbor
Tug Hoga (YT-146).  The Hoga, a Sioux Indian word meaning fish, (1) helped
battle fires, including pouring water on the hulk of the USS Arizona, (2)
resuce wounded sailors from the water, and (3) helped beach the battleship USS
Nevada, the only battleship to get underway that morning.  There is one
photograph showing the Hoga off the Nevada's port bow pouring water onto the
burning, partially sunken ship.

Today, the Hoga swings on its moorings at Treasure Island, the US Navy base
in San Francisco Bay.  She is listed on the National Register of Historic
Places.  There have been all kinds of plans to move her back to Pearl
Harbor but it all boils down to one item---money.  Treasure Island
harbormaster Robert Sullivan says it would not take much to get into
shape.  Rust is a problem but Sullivan says, "The rust is pretty much on
the surface.  The big problem is that the hull has thinned out from years
of wear."  Sullivan claims it would not take too much to refurbrish the
Hoga to look like it did on 7 Dec 41; the ship was used by the Oakland,
California Fire Department and much of the work involves removing pumps,
fire nozzles and other gear.

It would be a shape to let this one go too!

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 14:24:26 EST
From:    "Patrick D. Marsden" <marsden@TEXAS.CPI.COM>
Subject: Re: nativity

>
> I am interested in any other POW stories that took place in the U.S.  I know
> that German POW's worked for JR Reynolds in NC and there were POW's, Japanese
> and German, working in AZ.  Who knows any specifics?
>

I heard on story from my paternal grandfather who was the chief engineer
at Ft. Knox, KY during the war.  This was part of his famous 'cover vs
concealment' lesson.

There were a number of German POW's in the area that worked in the fields
harvesting tobacco.  They were also used on the Army post for menial
labor tasks.  The detail was generally guarded by a private with a shotgun.
The German prisoners quickly realized that a certain private wasn't very
aggressive and could be bullied by the POW's.  One day the prisoners
were lined up outside of the mess hall near about 100 empty garbage
cans (the aluminum type) and one of the prisoners decied to abuse the
guard some more.  He jumped out of line and ran into mass of garbage
cans to hide.  The guard apparently didn't notice right away and when he
finally counted the prisoners, the others' laughter gave away 'escapee.'
The guard ordered him back in line but the German just stood up and started
making faces at the guard and laughing with the other POW's.  The private
became very flustered and couldn't decide what to do, especially when the
POW started crouching down in the cans and jumping back up with his fingers
in his nose or ears, and generally acting like a monkey.  Tired of being made
fun of, the guard leveled his shotgun and fired one round and waste level.
The shot went through about10 garbage can before finding, and killing, the POW.
The guard got chewed-out for discharging his weapon in an unsafe manner but
gained a lot of respect among the POW work crew.  My grandfather's point was
'make sure you don't confuse cover for concealment!'

Anyway, that was my POW story.

patrick


--
Patrick D. Marsden                      | Reason why Hitler lost the war, #16:
Computational Physics, Inc.             | "Used to make prank calls to FDR
Fairfax, Virginia                       |  asking if he had 'Prince Albert
(703) 204-1301,  marsden@euler.cpi.com  |  in a can'."

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 12:38:05 MST
From:    Eric Pass <epass@NYX.CS.DU.EDU>
Subject: Hitler vs Russia and the U.S.A (Was: Re: Military Dictators vs Rivals:
         A Question

Lee Windsor, a fellow Canadian, opines:

LW> I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment and point out that
LW> Hitler's decision to invade Russia and declare war on the US, while
LW> stretching the idea of rationality, did have some reasoning behind it.

I agree.

Hitler has been portrayed as both an opportunist and taking actions
based on a master plan.  The concept of 'Lebensraum' which Hitler
espoused pretty much guaranteed that he would come into conflict with
Russia at some point since the living space Hitler wanted was in
Easter Europe and the Ukraine.

Hitler's decision to declare war on the USA was ill-advised in my
opinion but was done at the urging of the Japanese who demanded
that their Tripartite partners demonstrate their solidarity.

Going back to the Barbarossa plan, the plans to invade England had pretty
much been shelved by that point.  Hitler (and the German generals)
flushed with their success in overrunning France miscalculated and
assumed they could do the same in Russia.  Since theGerman
border of France to the sea is only about 200-300 miles (through
Belgium),  there's a significant difference in the scales of distances
involved on the Eastern and Western Fronts.  The associated
problems of logistics and supply (which were never fully examined
according to Leach) played havoc with the German offensive, coupled with
the poor intelligence of their opponents (numbers as well as
fighting ability and determination) and you have a recipe for
disaster.  The battle plan mutated several times as it became
obvious that the objectives were unattainable and it changed at the
lower levels because of military decisions.

Eric (epass@nyx.cs.du.edu)

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 15:31:40 -0500
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <sep@TVSS2.COMMNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: 50TH: HELPING THE

Hello Ken,

You missed a rather fine point in the debate: The Japanese High Council
was on no mood to surrender whatsoever. In fact, they refused to surrender
AFTER they knew full well what happened to Hiroshima. They only surrendered
after Nagasaki when the Emporer ordered them to.

Thier talks about surrendering before then was the smoke that somebody was
blowing, hoping to slow our advance.

I don't think there is much doubt that they were willing to fight down to
the last man, and coveted the "last glorious battle" for the homeland.

IMHO, both bombs were necessary.

Yes, there is long term damage to the victims of the blasts, just as there
is long term damage to the victims of other blasts, including civilians.

At least we are monitoring them. That's more than the Japanese have ever done
to their victims.

Would they have stopped victimizing their prey without being conquored?

Cheers!                                                         Steve

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - sep@trctc.commnet.edu |"Life may be a drag...
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |    But it sure beats the
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |       only known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 14:58:22 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: QUERY-Molotov's & Hirohito's Deaths

Hello, Arnaud!

> Incredible ! Did Molotov die only in 1986 ?

    Yeah. He was way up in years.

> Was he ever interviewed in all those recent years ?

    Doubtful. At least I haven't heard anything about it, and with my
contacts, I would have. More than likely, he wanted to live a private
life away from everything that smacked of publicity. Also, the
Soviets, or former ones, as a rule didn't go in for that sort of
thing. Also, he may have been discouraged from doing so.

Also, there also exists the likely possibility that even had he
written his memoirs or consented to oral interviews, given the system
in which he had to live, you couldn't be certain of his objectivity,
tainted info or misinfo, and the censorship that may have been
imposed. Had he lived after the demise of communism, say today, it
might have been different.


For me it is about
> as if Stalin himself had survived till now. He must have had very interesting
> things to say ...and what can such a man have thought of himself ??

    There are others still alive that are beginning to come forth to
comment on these things.

    Stalin's bodyguard is still alive, also, wives of some of the
purged officials are still alive, including the wife of Nikolai
Bukharin.

    Although, it would have been neat had he lived.

Hope this helps.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 16:09:07 EST
From:    "SGM Robert S. Rush" <rushr@MEADE-EMH1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: 50TH: HELPING THE

Regarding Ken Kosters post on Casualty projections for Japan.

There were several projections made by the Combined Chiefs, and
are located in the invasion plans now on file at the National Archives.
The figures were not made for political reasons, but to calculate
how many replacements would be needed to keep the assault forces
up to strength.  One of those numbers crunching drills the personnel
people do to see if they can support Course of Action A or B etc.

Hope this helps
Rob Rush

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 16:36:38 -0500
From:    "H. Emery Ford" <eford@DELPHI.UMD.EDU>
Subject: WHAT IF:  Seperate Peace on Eastern Front -- Hitler Replaced by Beck

Hello Folks!

A friend of mine is writing a short story based on the premise that
Hitler is killed in a 1943 coup by the Generals, is replaced by Ludwig
von Beck as titular head of state.  The Germans immediately seek peace
terms from the Allies despite theit "unconditional surrender" ultimatum.

Would it have been likely that Stalin may have negotiated a seperate
peace?

I am including my reply to his query, but am looking for any independent
opinions as well, such as the likelihood that Stalin would consider a
seperate peace with the Germans at all.

Thanks.

Emery

>Russia and Germany *could* have made peace seperately, especially
>with Hitler out of the picture.  After the Russian Stalingrad offensive,
>Manstein launched a counteroffensive that retook Kharkhov and threw back
>the Soviets somewhat.  This surprised and annoyed Stalin, who was
>concerned that if the war were to continue at that rate the Soviets
>would lose vast numbers of casualties and the war would go on
>indefinitely.  A representative of the Bulgarian embassy was summoned to
>the Kremlin to float this idea of a peace from Stalin.  Stalin,
>apparently, got cold feet and backed off.  Stalin would have much rather
>seen the Western Allies and Germany beat the crap out of each other,
>than carry the burden of the war himself.
>
>The terms of the envisioned peace are sketchy and unknown as far as I
>know. Neither the Germans or the Soviets would have allowed an independent
>Poland to reemerge.  The Germans were essentially deployed in a straight
>line from Leningrad to the North to just north of Kursk, all in a basically
>straight line.  The soviets occupied  a bulge at Kursk, while the Germans
>controlled Karhkhov, south of Kursk, almost all the way to Dneprotovsk.
>
>Perhaps the Germans, particularly the military, would have been glad to
>cede their Russian territories, while returning Bessarabia to the Rumanians
>in order to placate the German's ally.
>
>Also, the Germans originally intended to have control of Lithuania as a
>result of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, but Hitler and Stalin later modified
>the pact to allow the Russians control of Lithuania in exchange for the
>Germans receiving more of Poland than originally intended.
>
>So, in summary, maybe the peace terms/negotiations may have centered on:
>
>       1. Repartitioning Poland and the Germans trying to gain contol
>over Lithuania.
>       2. Returning Moldova to the Rumanians.
>       3. Germany returning all land that was Russian prior to Barbarossa.
>       4. The Finns would be allowed the borders they had occupied prior
>to the Russo-FInnish War.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 17:13:41 -0500
From:    Burt_Knight.ZIFF-DAVIS%LNGATE@ZCIAS1.ZIFF.COM
Subject: HUMOUR: Not WW2-L Related

Forwarded by a friend, sounds about right to me...  If you are offended by
religious material, please disregard this message!

  MICROSOFT Bids to Acquire Catholic Church

  By Hank Vorjes

  VATICAN CITY (AP) -- In a joint press conference in St. Peter's Square
  this morning, MICROSOFT Corp. and the Vatican announced that the
  Redmond software giant will acquire the Roman Catholic Church in
  exchange for an unspecified number of shares of MICROSOFT common stock.
  If the deal goes through, it will be the first time a computer software
  company has acquired a major world religion.

  With the acquisition, Pope John Paul II will become the senior
  vice-president of the combined company's new Religious Software
  Division, while MICROSOFT senior vice-presidents Michael Maples and
  Steven Ballmer will be invested in the College of Cardinals, said
  MICROSOFT Chairman Bill Gates.

  "We expect a lot of growth in the religious market in the next five to
  ten years," said Gates. "The combined resources of MICROSOFT and the
  Catholic Church will allow us to make religion easier and more fun for
  a broader range of people."

  Through the MICROSOFT Network, the company's new on-line service, "we
  will make the sacraments available on-line for the first time" and
  revive the popular pre-Counter-Reformation practice of selling
  indulgences, said Gates. "You can get Communion, confess your sins,
  receive absolution -- even reduce your time in Purgatory -- all without
  leaving your home."

  A new software application, MICROSOFT Church, will include a macro
  language which you can program to download heavenly graces
  automatically while you are away from your computer.

  An estimated 17,000 people attended the announcement in St Peter's
  Square, watching on a 60-foot screen as comedian Don Novello -- in
  character as Father Guido Sarducci -- hosted the event, which was
  broadcast by satellite to 700 sites worldwide.

  Pope John Paul II said little during the announcement. When Novello
  chided Gates, "Now I guess you get to wear one of these pointy hats,"
  the crowd roared, but the pontiff's smile seemed strained.

  The deal grants MICROSOFT exclusive electronic rights to the Bible and
  the Vatican's prized art collection, which includes works by such
  masters as Michelangelo and Da Vinci. But critics say MICROSOFT will
  face stiff challenges if it attempts to limit competitors' access to
  these key intellectual properties.

  "The Jewish people invented the look and feel of the holy scriptures,"
  said Rabbi David Gottschalk of Philadelphia. "You take the parting of
  the Red Sea -- we had that thousands of years before the Catholics came
  on the scene."

  But others argue that the Catholic and Jewish faiths both draw on a
  common Abrahamic heritage. "The Catholic Church has just been more
  successful in marketing it to a larger audience," notes Notre Dame
  theologian Father Kenneth Madigan. Over the last 2,000 years, the
  Catholic Church's market share has increased dramatically, while
  Judaism, which was the first to offer many of the concepts now touted
  by Christianity, lags behind.

  Historically, the Church has a reputation as an aggressive competitor,
  leading crusades to pressure people to upgrade to Catholicism, and
  entering into exclusive licensing arrangements in various kingdoms
  whereby all subjects were instilled with Catholicism, whether or not
  they planned to use it. Today Christianity is available from several
  denominations, but the Catholic version is still the most widely used.
  The Church's mission is to reach "the four corners of the earth,"
  echoing MICROSOFT's vision of "a computer on every desktop and in every
  home".

  Gates described MICROSOFT's long-term strategy to develop a scalable
  religious architecture that will support all religions through
  emulation. A single core religion will be offered with a choice of
  interfaces according to the religion desired -- "One religion, a couple
  of different implementations," said Gates.

  The MICROSOFT move could spark a wave of mergers and acquisitions,
  according to Herb Peters, a spokesman for the U.S. Southern Baptist
  Conference, as other churches scramble to strengthen their position in
  the increasingly competitive religious market.
 ..    Breaking News!!!

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 14:31:20 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <riegsecker@UPS.EDU>
Subject: Re: 50TH: HELPING THE

At  3:31 PM 12/5/94 -0500, Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs. wrote:
>Hello Ken,
>
>You missed a rather fine point in the debate: The Japanese High Council
>was on no mood to surrender whatsoever. In fact, they refused to surrender
>AFTER they knew full well what happened to Hiroshima. They only surrendered
>after Nagasaki when the Emporer ordered them to.
>
>Thier talks about surrendering before then was the smoke that somebody was
>blowing, hoping to slow our advance.
>
I've seen a number of places (e.g. Potter's bio of Nimitz, Layton's _And I
was There_) that because we were reading the Japanese ciphers, we knew of
efforts by some in the Japanese government to try to find ways to
surrender.  Does this mean that these messages were faked by the Japanese
to mislead us, or do you mean something else by their talks of surrendering
were smoke?  That is, did they make public statements designed to make us
think they were ready to surrender?

[...]

I've been doing some reading on the dropping of the bombs to try to come to
a better understanding of what went into the decisions.  Could someone
better acquainted with the literature on this than myself point me to some
titles by "non-revisionist" authors.  Thanks.


John Riegsecker                                 (206) 756-3566
Dept of Mathematics and Computer Science        riegsecker@ups.edu
University of Puget Sound

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 14:33:52 -0800
From:    Julian E Gomez <jeg@APPLE.COM>
Subject: Re: TRIV: Hair/skin from Conc. Camp victims

>> The worst I' heard was that skin was cut off hands to make gloves. :-\
>
>    And also lampshades and skulls shrunken used as paper weights.I
>saw this exhibit, used as evidence at the Nuremberg Trials, in a
>museum in the former East Berlin.

I saw similar exhibits at Auschwitz. Also pictures of the "medical" experiments.



"I was a precocious child and obviously destined to be a scientist."

        Dr. Julian "a tribble took it" Gomez
        Apple Computer, Inc.  408/862-1289 or 996-1010
        jeg@apple.com  julian.g@applelink.apple.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 19:43:53 EST
From:    "H. Emery Ford" <eford@DELPHI.UMD.EDU>
Subject: WHAT IF:  Seperate Peace on Eastern Front in 1943

It seems my original message got garbled for some inexplicable reason.
:/
So, here it goes again.  Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Em
------- Forwarded Message

Hello Folks!

A friend of mine is writing a short story based on the premise that
Hitler is killed in a 1943 coup by the Generals, is replaced by Ludwig
von Beck as titular head of state.  The Germans immediately seek peace
terms from the Allies despite theit "unconditional surrender" ultimatum.

Would it have been likely that Stalin may have negotiated a seperate
peace?

I am including my reply to his query, but am looking for any independent
opinions as well, such as the likelihood that Stalin would consider a
seperate peace with the Germans at all.

Thanks.

Emery

>Russia and Germany *could* have made peace seperately, especially
>with Hitler out of the picture.  After the Russian Stalingrad offensive,
>Manstein launched a counteroffensive that retook Kharkhov and threw back
>the Soviets somewhat.  This surprised and annoyed Stalin, who was
>concerned that if the war were to continue at that rate the Soviets
>would lose vast numbers of casualties and the war would go on
>indefinitely.  A representative of the Bulgarian embassy was summoned to
>the Kremlin to float this idea of a peace from Stalin.  Stalin,
>apparently, got cold feet and backed off.  Stalin would have much rather
>seen the Western Allies and Germany beat the crap out of each other,
>than carry the burden of the war himself.
>
>The terms of the envisioned peace are sketchy and unknown as far as I
>know. Neither the Germans or the Soviets would have allowed an independent
>Poland to reemerge.  The Germans were essentially deployed in a straight
>line from Leningrad to the North to just north of Kursk, all in a basically
>straight line.  The soviets occupied  a bulge at Kursk, while the Germans
>controlled Karhkhov, south of Kursk, almost all the way to Dneprotovsk.
>
>Perhaps the Germans, particularly the military, would have been glad to
>cede their Russian territories, while returning Bessarabia to the Rumanians
>in order to placate the German's ally.
>
>Also, the Germans originally intended to have control of Lithuania as a
>result of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, but Hitler and Stalin later modified
>the pact to allow the Russians control of Lithuania in exchange for the
>Germans receiving more of Poland than originally intended.
>
>So, in summary, maybe the peace terms/negotiations may have centered on:
>
>       1. Repartitioning Poland and the Germans trying to gain contol
>over Lithuania.
>       2. Returning Moldova to the Rumanians.
>       3. Germany returning all land that was Russian prior to Barbarossa.
>       4. The Finns would be allowed the borders they had occupied prior
>to the Russo-FInnish War.

------- End of Forwarded Message

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:27:13 EST
From:    "H. Emery Ford" <eford@DELPHI.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Molotov and the Stalin-era Old Guard

Hi folks!

While you were on the topic of Molotov, it reminded me of one of my
favorite passages I read a while ago in LENIN'S TOMB by David Remnick,
an outstanding book.  The passage includes references to two other
members of the old guard, who were still living in 1984 -- Kaganovich
and Malenkov, and how Gorbachev placated the conservative faction of
the Politburo by readmitting them into the Party.

Emery

Here goes:

        The minutes of a July 12, 1984, Politburo session revealed a
nauseating spectacle:  the leaders of the Party still defending Stalin
against Khrushchev's revisionism.  At the meeting, the members listen to
a report on how Vyacheslav Molotov, Stalin's foreign minister, was
"overwhelmed with joy" at the Politburo's decision to restore him to the
Party ranks.  Molotov had been expelled during Khrushchev's "thaw."
        "And let me tell you," says Marshal Dmitri Ustinov, the head of
the armed forces.  "If it hadn't been for Khrushchev, they never would
have been expelled and there never would have been these outrageous
actions regarding Stalin....Not a single one of our enemies has
inflicted so much misfortune on us as Khrushchev did regarding his
policies and his attitude toward Stalin."
        Gorbachev, who knew well at the time that he would have to get
the support of the conservatives to win the top job once Chernenko
finally died, plays a marvelous game, saying that he would support the
restoration to Party ranks of Molotov's cohorts, Lazar Kaganovich and
Georgi Malenkov.  ("Yes, these are elderly people," the Leningrad Party
boss, Grigori Romanov, chimes in.  "They may die.")  But Gorbachev also
knows the value of discretion.  As for the Molotov rehabilitation, he
says, "I think we can do this without publicity."  And in connection
with the fortieth anniversary of our victory in the Great Patriotic War,
shouldn't we rename Volgograd back to Stalingrad?"
        "Well," Gorbachev says, "there are pluses and minuses to this."
        Even after Chernenko's death and his own assumption of power,
Gorbachev offered bones for his reactionary colleagues to gnaw on.  At a
March 20, 1986, Politburo meeting he suggests changing the name of the
icebreaker Artika to Brezhnev.
        "Yes, let's do it," Ryzhkov says, "but don't announce it on
television."

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:35:48 -0600
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <TWATTS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU>
Subject: Re: TAC: Screening Missions

Many thanks to Jack McKillop for his explanations of Screening Missions
and the Scouting Force.  One thing I am realizing is just how much WW II
developed into an electronic war.  It isn't hard to see the forerunners
of AWACs planes and other electronic counter measure weapons in some of
the later developments of the war.

Does anyone have a good monograph to suggest for someone who wants to
know more about the electronic and technical developments during the war?
I think I recall a title something like "The Wizard War", but I did not
write it down at the time.  How about it?  Any suggestions?

TIA
Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 21:40:45 EST
From:    "Carl Wernke - TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET" <TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET>
Subject: Re: PEARL HARBOR DAY

 To: Multiple recipients of list WWII-L(WWII-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU)


 On Mon, 5 Dec 1994 12:58:07 CCS, Jorge Merino wrote:
 > I would like to hear some more details about USS Utah. If someone has a
 > brief summary on her and want to share it with the list, I will
 > appreciate it very much.

 UTAH (BB-31)
 displacement. 21,825 (n.)
 length. 521' 6"
 beam. 88' 3"
 draft. 28' 4" (mean)
 speed. 20.75 k.
 compliment. 1,041
 armament. 10 12", 16 5", 2 21" tt.
 class. FLORIDA

 UTAH (Battleship No. 31) was laid down on 9 March 1909 at Camden, N.J., by
 the New York Shipbuilding Co.; launched on 23 December 1909; sponsored by
 Miss Alice Spry, daughter of Governor Spry of Utah; and commissioned at the
 Philadelphia Navy Yard on 31 August 1911, Capt. William S.Benson in
 command.

 After the United States finally declared war on 6 April 1917, UTAH
 operated inthe waters of the Chesapeake Bay as an engineering and gunnery
 training ship and continued that duty until 30 August 1918, when she sailed
 for the British Isles with Vice Admiral Henry T. Mayo, Commander in Chief,
 United States Atlantic Fleet, embarked.

 After the cessation of hostilities, UTAH visited Portland, England, and
 later served as part of the honor escort for the transport GEORGE WASHINGTON
 (Id. No. 3018), as that ship bore President Woodrow Wilson into the harbor
 of Brest, France, on 13 December 1918. The following day, UTAH turned
 homeward and reached New York on Christmas Day 1918.

 UTAH spent subsequent summers of 1925 and 1926 with the Midshipmen Practice
 Squadron and, after disembarking her midshipmen at the conclusion of the
 1925 cruise, entered the Boston Navy Yard and was decommissioned on
 31 October 1925 for modernization. During that period of alterations and
 repairs, the ship's "cage" mainmast was replaced by a lighter pole mast,
 she was fitted to burn oil instead of coal as fuel; and her armament was
 modified to reflect the increased concern over antiaircraft defence.
 Interestingly, UTAH and her sistership FLORIDA (BB-30) never received the
 more modern "tripod" masts fitted other classes.

 However, UTAH's days as a battleship were numbered, Under the terms of the
 Washington Naval Treaty, UTAH was selected for conversion to a mobile
 target, in place of the former battleship NORTH DAKOTA; and, on 1 July 1931,
 UTAH's classification was changed to AG-16. Her conversion-carried out at the
 Norfolk Navy Yard-included the installation of a radio-control apparatus.
 After having been decommissioned for the duration of the conversion, UTAH
 was recommissioned at Norfolk on 1 April 1932, Comdr. Randall Jacobs in
 command.

 UTAH completed an advanced antiaircraft gunnery cruise in Hawaiian waters
 shortly before she returned to Pearl Harbor in early December 1941, mooring
 off Ford Island in berth F-11. On the morning of 7 December 1941, the
 senior officer on board-the captain and executive officer were ashore on
 leave-was Lt.Comdr. Solomon S.Isquith, the engineering officer.

 Shortly before 0800, men topside noted three planes-taken for American
 planes on maneuvers-heading in a northerly direction from the harbor
 entrance. They made a low dive at the southern end of Ford Island-where the
 seaplane hangers were situated-and began dropping bombs.

 The attack on the fleet at Pearl Harbor lasted a little under two hours, but
 for UTAH, it was over in a few minutes. At 0801, soon after sailors had
 begun raising the colors at the ship's fantail, the battleship took a
 torpedo hit forward, and immediately started to list to port.

 At 0812, the mooring lines snapped, and UTAH rolled over on her beam ends;
 her survivors struck out for shore, some taking shelter on the mooring
 quays since Japanese straffers were active.

 UTAH was declared "in ordinary" on 29 December 1941 and was placed under
 the control of the Pearl Harbor Base Force. Partially righted to clear an
 adjacent berth, she was then declared "out of commission, not in service,"
 on 5 September 1944. UTAH's name was struck from the Navy list on
 13 November 1944. Her partially submerged hulk still remains, rusting, at
 Pearl Harbor with an unknown number of men trapped inside.

 Of UTAH's complement, 30 officers and 431 enlisted men survived the ship's
 loss; 6 officers and 58 men died-four of the latter being recovered and
 interred ashore. Chief Watertender Tomich received the Medal of Honor
 posthumously for his selfless act in ensuring the safety of others.

 UTAH (AG-16) received one battle star for her World War II service.

 From: DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN NAVAL FIGHTING SHIPS, James L.Mooney, ed.,
 Naval Historical Center, Department of the Navy, Washington, DC, 1981.

 Transcribed and edited by:  Larry W. Jewell  jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu


 Carl Wernke
 TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 22:08:51 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <hhs@EVEREST.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: QUERY-Molotov's & Hirohito's Deaths

I have a vague recollection that in the early or mid-1980's Molotov or
his representative approached a British magazine about a series of
interviews and they turned him down on the grounds he was no longer
"in," in the sense of glitzy-newsworthy. Does anyone else recall this,
or have details?

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 22:11:41 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <hhs@EVEREST.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: WHAT IF:  Seperate Peace on Eastern Front in 1943

Doubtful after Stalingrad, even more unlikely after Kursk, and NEVER if
it meant leaving a single German on pre-1939 Russian soil. Just my two cents.

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 22:46:04 EST
From:    "H. Emery Ford" <eford@DELPHI.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: WHAT IF: Seperate Peace on Eastern Front in 1943

Howdy Henry!

>Doubtful after Stalingrad, even more unlikely after Kursk, and NEVER if
>it meant leaving a single German on pre-1939 Russian soil. Just my two cents.

I wouldn't have thought that Stalin would have even considered a
seperate peace until I recently saw a good documentary on the Discovery
Channel called STALIN: PORTRAIT OF A BLOOD TYRANT, which uses recently
unearthed documents from the Soviet archives.  In it they describe an
attempt by Stalin to utilize a Bulgarian embassador as a mediator right
after the Germans retook Karkhov in '43.    So, this would be after
Stalingrad and before Kursk.

Thanks for your input!

Em

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 23:02:38 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <hhs@EVEREST.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Netherlands: Holocaust

Taking nothing from the Danes' incredible achievement in saving their
Jewish population, it should also be noted that Finland kept every
Jewish citizen and all but 8 non-citizens out of German hands. The
Total number saved was more than 1700, and the eight who were turned
over were part of a larger group of mostly non-Jews the Germans
claimed on criminal and political grounds.

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 23:04:48 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <hhs@EVEREST.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Codebreakers...did they work?

There is a book on German cryptographic success- I think it is
BREACH OF SECURITY, possibly by David Irving, and it appeared
about 20-25 years ago.

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 23:20:13 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <hhs@EVEREST.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: ARMY GREEN BOOKS (MISSING VOLUME)

The first Green Books included a list of forthcoming titles that noted
a history of Military Intelligence. Does anyone know what happened to
this volume? Was it written, but not declassified? Has it appeared in
another venue?

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:33:13 -0800
From:    Anthony Anderson <anthonya@CHARON.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Netherlands: Holocaust

Henry! {This is a private posting] I am not sure that I can agree with
your assessment that the Danes' achievement was "incredible". The Jewish
community there was miniscule--approximately 7000 in number. Transporting
them to Sweden was not at all a difficult undertaking....Still, it should
not go unrecognized and you certainly very right in acknowledging the
Finns' very real resistance to Nazi racial policies, something often
forgotten.

Anthony Anderson
Los Angeles


On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Henry Sirotin wrote:

> Taking nothing from the Danes' incredible achievement in saving their
> Jewish population, it should also be noted that Finland kept every
> Jewish citizen and all but 8 non-citizens out of German hands. The
> Total number saved was more than 1700, and the eight who were turned
> over were part of a larger group of mostly non-Jews the Germans
> claimed on criminal and political grounds.
>
> Henry Sirotin
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:35:46 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Great Escape

Jim Irwin...
'Not sure if a reply I sent you last week actually arrived there.
(Local gateway has been having mucho problems lately)
Anyway, I just wanted to mention that one of my good friends (Mac Reilley)
is a survivor of the Great Escape in that he was stopped from going down the hole when the alarm sounded outside the wire at Stalag Luft III.
He has marvellous stories of how it really was at Sagan.

Also, I knew the RCAF engineer (Wally Floody) who supervised the digging of
the escape tunnels. Wally is listed in the credits at the end of the movie
as "technical advisor".  BTW, Wally did not al all like the way the movie
turned out.  :-)

Regards -- Sidney.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 16:45:48 -0600
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <TWATTS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Conclusion

Sgt. Maj. Rush-
Thank you for your messages.  I thought it was a fascinating look at small
unit combat with a very personal point of view.  I suspect the lessons from
the Hurtgen Forest combat applied to Roman legions, Napoleon's Grand Army,
WW I, Korea, Vietnam, and the Gulf War; I'm sure they will apply to future
combat as well.

Reading about what the 22d went through, I realized it is one thing to say
WW II was won when the US entered the war, or when the D-Day landings were
successful, but that there were still many, many individuals who had to
sacrifice their time, their health and their lives to make it come true.
Even if you know your side is certain to win the war, it doesn't make the
other side just lay down their weapons.  If nothing else, membership in this
list has made me realize better what veterans from all sides had to endure.

In a belated Veteran's Day message, I would like to thank all the veterans
on this list.  Especially those of you like Ben Frank and John Ausland who
lived through the events of WW II, but also those of you who have served
in the military in both peace and war, whatever the dates.  I do feel that
the life my family and I enjoy is the result of your readiness to serve and
sacrifice.

Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 4 Dec 1994 to 5 Dec 1994
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 67 messages totalling 7083 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Midget Sub Attack on Pearl Harbor
  2. Cryptography
  3. WHAT IF: Seperate Peace on Eastern Front in 1943
  4. USS Utah (4)
  5. Last Pearl Harbor Ship
  6. TAC: Screening Missions
  7. INF: USN Chronology 12-06-94
  8. MEDIA-Doris Miller
  9. INF: 50 Years Ago - 07-DEC-1944
 10. WWII Commemoration tours
 11. Stalin & the Ukrainians (4)
 12. Roechling Geschoss or fin-stabilized shells.
 13. Great Escape
 14. TAC: Battle of Ormoc Bay Part II
 15. WHAT IF: Seperate Peace on Eastern Front -- Hitler Replaced by Beck (2)
 16. Tirpitz trivia
 17. WEAP: BB-31 USS Utah
 18. 50TH: HELPING THE
 19. Waffen-SS (Kurt Gerstein)
 20. DOC: Naval Historical Records
 21. Military Dictators vs Rivals: A Question
 22. Holocaust Victim's Hair & Skin
 23. Books
 24. 22d Hurtgen Epilogue (5)
 25. writing (2)
 26. MEDIA:A-Bomb Stamp (3)
 27. MEDIA:Pearl Harbor Vindication?
 28. HIST: Hair, etc., from KZ inmates
 29. Close Air Support in Normandy (2)
 30. TACT: Japan if no Pearl
 31. INF: Regia Marina, Part 2
 32. MEDIA: Tokyo Documents
 33. "comfort women" compensation (2)
 34. The Netherlands: Holocaust
 35. Query:  Doug McCabe (2)
 36. weapons-Russian bombers
 37. 7 DEC 41: Introduction
 38. 7 DEC 41: Army attitudes in Hawaii
 39. 7 DEC 41: The Opana Radar Station
 40. 7 DEC 41: Where were the aircraft carriers?\
 41. 7 DEC 41: Aviation units in Hawaii
 42. 7 DEC 41: The B-17 flight to Hawaii
 43. 7 DEC 41: USCG and USN ships in Hawaii
 44. 7 DEC 41: The B-24 spy mission
 45. 7 DEC 41: US Army units worldwide
 46. 7 DEC 41: US Army Air Forces units worldwide
 47. 7 DEC 41: US Marine Corps aviation units worldwide
 48. [INF] USAAF 6 DEC 44
 49. [INF] USAAF 7 DEC 44
 50. Virus:  What to do

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 19:17:39 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <jimadams@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Midget Sub Attack on Pearl Harbor

Here is an advance release of a press conference that is
being held at the USS Arizona Memorial, Tuesday morning.
---------------

AUTOMETRIC, INC. REWRITES NAVAL HISTORY OF PEARL HARBOR

Introduction:

On Tuesday, December 6, representatives from Autometric,
Inc. will present their findings regarding an overlooked
aspect of the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941.
 A JAPANESE MIDGET SUBMARINE ATTACKED BATTLESHIP ROW.

Background:

History has recorded that the Imperial Japanese Navyoperational attack
plan against Pearl Harbor involved the
use of midget submarines.  Five midget submarines
attempted to penetrate Pearl Harborearly morning hours of Dec 7, 41.  Two
of the submarines
did succeed in penetrating the harbor.  Two others never
made it inside.  The fate of the fifth remains a mystery.

Mr. Daniel Martinez, National Park Service Historian at the
USS Arizona Memorial asked Mr. John Rodgaard, of
Autometric, Inc. to investigate whether one of these
midget submarines was photographed by a Japanese Navy
flight crew during the attack.  Autometric, Inc., located
in Alexandria, Virginia, is considered an industry leader
in the related fields of photographic interpretation and
photogrammetric analysis.

Methodology:

Under the direction of Mr. John Rodgaard, the Autometric
team conducted a five step analysis.  The first step
involved Autometric photo-scientists who digitally
reproduced the photograph, then digitally enhanced it.
The second step determined the exact geographic location
of the object.  Step three involved calculating the
precise measurements of the objects height and length
dimensions.  Next, Autometric photo-interpreters
determined the time of the Japanese aerial photograph.
Finally, they identified those visual observables that
identified the object as a submarine.

Results:

Through photographic analysis and photogrammetric
calculation, Autometric determined that a Imperial
Japanese Type A Class Midget Submarine was present in the
southeast loch during the morning hours of December 7th,
and this submarine conducted a successful attack against
battleship row.

-------------------------

More details will be released during the press conference
tomorrow morning (Hawaii time, 0830, 1130 EST).  We
expect heavy press coverage, to include CNN.

I was amazed when I got an advance look at the photos today
and the details they show.

Stay tuned.




****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       jimadams@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu
Cultural Resource Manager
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS       (808) 422-2771  extension 130
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 00:24:03 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <hhs@EVEREST.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Cryptography

THE CODEBREAKERS is by David Kahn, who also did HITLER'S SPIES (his
dss at Columbia) and a book on naval Enigma. Ladislas Farago's best
book is his memoir, THE TENTH FLEET, about the USN antisubmarine
command in WWII. He also did the interesting WAR OF WITS. THE FBI-KGB
WAR, a memoir by a senior FBI agent whose name slips my mind at the
moment, has some interesting details on crypt.

More as it comes to me.

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 00:35:37 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <hhs@EVEREST.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: WHAT IF: Seperate Peace on Eastern Front in 1943

Dear Em,

I have heard about that incident, and know several Soviet specialists
are trying to get more detail as we're discussing it. For now, treat
it with a grain of salt; there are things wond'rous and strange in
those archives, and no single document tells the whole story on
anything. In fact, those records may be the greatest intellectual
D'n'D game of the century. Everywhere you turn, its a maze.

Henry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 19:57:01 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <jimadams@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: USS Utah

More on the USS Utah - AG-16.  As an anti-aircraft training ship the Utah
was very well equipped with the latest technology.  she was responsible
for most of the training of the anti-aircraft gun crews that were in the
Pacific fleet at the beginning of WWII.

She also served as a target ship for planes and ships to fire at.  Her
decks were reinforced with timbers to absorb the shock of the bombs -
even though they were filled with water and not explosives.

the Utah was very sophisticated for her time - the technology then would
be comparable (analogious) to space shuttle of today.  When acting as a
target ship, the Utah would be buttoned up with only an engine room crew
buried deep inside of her.  She would be controlled remotely from another
ship.

After she was sunk during the attack there was an unsuccessful attempt to
salvage her.  She capsized, turtled over just as the Oklahoma.  Cables
were attached to her and run to towers on Ford Island.  Pulleys pulled
the cables in an attempt to right her over.   This operation was
successful on the Oklahoma, but the Utah slid across the bottom instead,
only partially turning over.  Hopes of salvage ended and she was abandonded.



****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       jimadams@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu
Cultural Resource Manager
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS       (808) 422-2771  extension 130
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:08:12 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <jimadams@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Last Pearl Harbor Ship

SAVE THE HOGA

This is a project that Daniel Martinez, Historian USS Arizona Memorial
and myself, and Frank McHale, a local tug boat enthusiast, are
sponsoring.  We are in the process of trying to form a non-profit
cooperation that will take over the Hoga, get it brought to Hawaii, and
get her preserved.  We are looking for any and all supporters, helpers,
finacial backers, sponsors, etc.

The NPS is not in a position to take ownership of the Hoga, so we are
trying to provide assistance to get a private group going that can do
it.  We are in touch with the Navy and have received favorable feedback
from the Navy to have the vessal transfered to us if we get the group
going.  Lots of work involved but we feel a worth while project.

After December 7th, we plan on attacking this project with gusto.

Please feel free to pass this information on and any one that would like
to help in anyway, contact Danny or myself.

aloha

****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       jimadams@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu
Cultural Resource Manager
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS       (808) 422-2771  extension 130
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, mc killop wrote:

> The following Associated Press article was in the 5 Dec 94 issue of the
> TRENTON (New Jersey) TIMES.
>
> On the morning of 7 Dec 41, one of the ships in Pearl Harbor was the Harbor
> Tug Hoga (YT-146).  The Hoga, a Sioux Indian word meaning fish, (1) helped
> battle fires, including pouring water on the hulk of the USS Arizona, (2)
> resuce wounded sailors from the water, and (3) helped beach the battleship USS
> Nevada, the only battleship to get underway that morning.  There is one
> photograph showing the Hoga off the Nevada's port bow pouring water onto the
> burning, partially sunken ship.
>
> Today, the Hoga swings on its moorings at Treasure Island, the US Navy base
> in San Francisco Bay.  She is listed on the National Register of Historic
> Places.  There have been all kinds of plans to move her back to Pearl
> Harbor but it all boils down to one item---money.  Treasure Island
> harbormaster Robert Sullivan says it would not take much to get into
> shape.  Rust is a problem but Sullivan says, "The rust is pretty much on
> the surface.  The big problem is that the hull has thinned out from years
> of wear."  Sullivan claims it would not take too much to refurbrish the
> Hoga to look like it did on 7 Dec 41; the ship was used by the Oakland,
> California Fire Department and much of the work involves removing pumps,
> fire nozzles and other gear.
>
> It would be a shape to let this one go too!
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> |  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
> |  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
> |  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
> |  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 02:27:08 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <hhs@EVEREST.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: TAC: Screening Missions

Dear Tim,

Re electronics in WWII, check the work of Alfred Price on the air war,
and, most importantly, Norman Friedman on the naval side. There is also
a retired British Admiral named (Arthur?) Hezlett who has done a series
of books with the titles "Electronics and Sea Power, Air Power, others?"        They are not kiddy books or primers.

Regards,

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 04:00:12 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 12-06-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
12/06 Wed.  United States naval vessel damaged:
             Tug ATR-1, by collision, Italian area,
              41 d. 27'N., 12 d. 40'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 04:30:14 +0000
From:    "(Josh Talbert)" <Samuel_Talbert@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: MEDIA-Doris Miller

The following article appeared in the December 5, 1994 issue of the Waco Tribune
Herald on page 1B:

CEREMONY HONORS PEARL HARBOR HERO
by Andrew L. Kilpatrick

     A handful of people gathered Sunday afternoon...to remember Doris (Dorie)
Miller, a local man who became a hero after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor
53 years ago this week.
     The Central Texas Branch of the Association for the Study of Afro American
Life and History sponsored the event for a man who is considered to have helped
break down racial barriers in the Navy.
     Miller...joined the Navy as a steward in 1940 and was eventually assigned
to the USS West Virginia.
     The West VIrginia was in port at Pearl Harbor when the Japanese attacked on
Dec. 7, 1941.
     Miller is credited with moving his wounded captain, Mervyn S. Bennion, to a
safe place before manning an anti-aircraft gun and shooting down four Japanese
planes.
     Miller was not trained to use the weapon but was later quoted as saying,
"It wasn't hard.  I just pulled the trigger and she worked fine."
     Miller was originally given a letter of commendation for his efforts at
Pearl Harbor but was later awarded the Navy Cross, which was presented to him by
a fellow Texan, Adm. Chester Nimitz.
     Efforts to award him the Medal of Honor have so far failed.  About 1.5
million black Americans fought in World War I and World War II, but none
received the Medal of Honor.
     Miller died when his new ship, the USS Liscome Bay, was hit by a Japanese
torpedo and sank in 1943.
     Miller was posthumously awarded the Purple Heart and a destroyer, the USS
Miller, was named after him in 1973.  It was decommisioned in 1991.
     Those at Sunday's memorial service hope Miller's story will continue to
have a positive influence.
     "We are here to honor a man who gave of himself," said LeRoy Fowler,
president of the Association for the Study of Afro American Life and History.
"He not only fought for black Americans, he fought for all Americans."
     "We must learn to appreciate things people have done for America regardless
of color," he said.
     Fowler also said that Miller's life teaches that people should care for
their fellow man regardless of their color or ethnic background.


I found this article to be quite interesting and decided to share it with all of
you.  I know that Miller's story may be only one out of thousands, but does it
seem like something's a little...amiss?  I mean, could it be based on race that
he has never been awarded the Medal of Honor, even today?

I look forward to any and all responses

Josh Talbert
Samuel_Talbert@baylor.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 04:33:06 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 07-DEC-1944

On 07-DEC-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The US 90th and 95th Divisions continue to attempt to
consolidate their positions; the 90th in the Patchen-Dillingen sector and
the 95th in the Saarlautern bridgehead. In the French 1st Army sector,
I Corps opens an attack on the Colmar packet. The II Corps is engaged in
holding against strong Geram counterattacks in the Ostheim, Guemar and
Mittelwihr sectors.

Eastern Front - The 3rd Ukraine Front reaches the south bank of Lake
Balaton, in Hungary. The area between Lake Balaton and the Danube is
occupied as well as Eyning. The Russians also capture Barcs. Yugoslav
troops cross the Danube at various points near Vukovar in Slovenia.

Philippines (Leyte) - Aircraft from the US 5th Air Force along with Marine
aircraft attack a Japanese convoy heading for Leyte with reinforcements and
supplies. The pilots report that all of the Japanese ships are sunk. The US
77th Division begins an amphibious landing in Ormoc Bay at Deposito. The
Japanese put up very little resistance and the landing force penetrates into
the interior very quickly. A kamikaze attack results in the sinking of one
American destroyer and also a fast transport. The US 7th Division continues
to advance on Ormoc from the south. Fighting continues around the Buri
airfield.

The Homefront
-------------
Convict Revolt Ends - Twenty-five inmates of the Atlanta Federal Prison,
who seized four guards as hostages and barricaded themselves in the
segregation building the night of Dec. 4th, have surrendered after their
grievances were printed in the Atlanta Journal. The main complaint of the
prisoners were that they did not like being housed with German spies and
saboteurs. They have been placed in solitary pending trial.

Dorsey Case Dropped - Judge Arthur Crumm in Los Angeles has dismissed
assault charges against band leader Tommy Dorsey, his wife, Pat Dane and
their neighbor, Allen Smiley, growing out of an alleged attack at the
Dorsey home on actor Jon Hall. The court described one witness as a "master
fabricator of falsehoods" ands says Hall himself gave four different
accounts of the affair which accurred on Aug. 5th after a party.

Outstanding Football Player For 1944 - The Maxwell Memorial Football Club
in Philadelphia has selected Army halfback Glenn Davis as the outstanding
football player for the 1944 season.

Army & Navy
-----------
Pearl Harbor Day - On Pearl Harbor day it is announced that all six of the
Japanese aircraft carriers that participated in the Pearl Harbor attack
have now been sunk. The Kaga, Akagi, Soryo and Hiryu were sunk at Midway in
1942. The Shokaku was sunk in the first Battle of the Philippines Sea, June
19-20 of this year and the Zuikaku was sunk on Oct. 25th in the second
Battle of the Philippines Sea.

AAF Statistics - The War Department has disclosed that the Army Air Forces'
warlong records include 1,566,329 combat sorties, 1,202,139 tons of bombs
dropped, at least 29,316 Axis planes destroyed in the air and on the
ground and 1,310,006 tons of enemy shipping destroyed in the Pacific. The
AAF has lost 13,491 aircraft. It has also suffered approximately 86,580
battle casualties.

Soldiers Under Nineteen To Go Overseas - Under Secretary of War Robert P.
Patterson has disclosed that the policy not to send youths under 19 overseas
to fight has recently been revised and that now soldiers aged 18 are going
abroad as infantry replacements. He says this step has been taken only after
all other available sources have been tapped.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "Facts On File Yearbook 1944,
Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica and "Time" magazine.

Copyright 1994 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 08:11:28 -0500
From:    John Sloan <JohnS426@AOL.COM>
Subject: WWII Commemoration tours

                     WORLD WAR II - EUROPEAN TOURS

     Individuals interested in the final American Army
campaign in Germany in 1945 may want to participate in one or
the other of two special commemorative tours being planned for
members of two of the division associations for spring 1995.
The military historian organizing these tours, who will
present detailed lectures on each unit's participation in the
final stages of the war, is Brigadier General Raymond Bell,
Jr. His father was a regimental commander in one of the
divisions and he is currently completing editing the memoirs
of the commander of the other. General Bell led several
excellent tours for veteran's associations to Normandy and
through France and Germany in 1994. He has asked me to inform
everyone interested in military history that they are welcome
to join the veterans on these exciting excursions, if space is
available. But time remaining to sign up is limited, so
contact them now, in December.
     The tour for the 90th Infantry Division leaves New York
on 26 April, arrives in Frankfurt on the 27th and follows the
division's combat route through Fulda, Zella-Mehlis, Coburg,
Hof, Selb, Weiden, Vilseck, and Plzen to Prague where there
will be celebrations of the liberation on 7-8 May. The group
flies back to the USA on 9 May. Along the way there are
planned visits not only to battle sites but also to the many
crystal, porcelain, Hummel figure and other crafts factories
as well as not a few of the breweries.
     The tour for the 11th Armored Division leaves New York on
28 April. It follows the division combat path from Frankfurt
through Heidelberg, Hanau, Fulda, Coburg, Suhl, Kulmbach,
Weiden, Vilseck and Passau to Linz, Austria. The division
liberated this city at the close of the war and a very special
50th anniversary commemoration is being prepared by the city
fathers for 6-7 May. After this the group will visit Salzburg
and Munich, before flying back to the USA on 10 May. This
group also will visit the arts and crafts factories and other
"cultural" attractions along the way. Both groups will visit
the current successors of General Abram's tank battalion - the
37th Armor at Vilseck.
     All arrangements are handled by Mrs Barbara Houlis at
NEWBURGH Travel Center, 242 Broadway, Newburgh, New York,
12550. phone 1-800-397-4182 or 914-561-4182

     Sounds like an ideal combination of historical education
and enjoyable vacation.

best wishes

john sloan

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:13:17 -0400
From:    Boris Raymond <BRAYMOND@AC.DAL.CA>
Subject: Stalin & the Ukrainians

From:   DAL1::BRAYMOND     "Boris Raymond"  5-DEC-1994 14:26:50.62
To:     IN%"WWII-L@BVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU"
CC:     BRAYMOND
Subj:   Stalin & the Ukraininans

6 December, 1994

        This post is definitely *not* intended as a flame, but
rather as an appeal for historical precision.
        In responding to a critical remark concerning participation
by some Ukraininans in the German S.S., Mr. Bill Wsiaki wrote on
4 December:
>       "We know full well today that Stalin had long persecuted the
>Ukraininans.  The politically imposed famine of 1932-33 claimed an
>estimated 6 million lives.  The brutal purges by the NKVD just prior
>to German occupation in Ukraine further outraged the Ukraininan
>population to the point that they were willing to fight against Russia
>by siding with the Germans."

        I feel that these assertions paint a distorted picture.
1--Stalin (who was not a Russian), did persecute the Ukrainians, but
he did equally well in persecuting with equal zeal Georgians,
Armenians, Russians, Jews and all of the other peoples of the Soviet
Union.  Ukrainians were definitely not his only, or even his preferred
victims.  (Remember, he abolished the the Autonomous German and Tartar
Republics.)
2--The 1932-33 famine was indeed political as Mr. Wsiaki asserts.
It was intended to "liquidate the kulaks (richer peasants) as a
class,"  and to force the rest of the peasantry into collective farms,
where they could be more efficiently exploited.  What Mr. Wsiaki does
not say is that this policy was carried out throughtout the Soviet
Unions, and produced a famine in Siberia, Belorussia, the Russian Don
and Volga regions, as well as in the Ukraine.
3--The brutal purges of te NKVD (secret police), were indeed
devastating in Kiev.  But they were equally devastating in Moscow,
Leningrad, Minsk, Tashkent, Baku and Tblisi.

My main objection to the way Mr. Wsiaki presents his brief in
explaining the participation of a very small minority of the Ukrainian
population in the SS, is that he relies on the false (though currently
very popular), line of defense, to wit, "When accused of a wrongdoing,
claim 'victimization'!" (This tactic reminds me of the old joke:
        How does a man who killed his mother and father defend himself
        in court?  Why, he pleads no guilty on the grounds that he is
        an orphan.)
                                        Boris Raymond

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 07:40:28 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Roechling Geschoss or fin-stabilized shells.

Hello to all!

Here goes with some more info on this fascinating artillery shell
innovation.

Roechling felt that these projectiles, designed as they were on a
formula (Petry's) dating from before WWI, were inefficient and that
penetrative performances could be improved by making a shell of
greatly increased sectional density. Since the projectile for this
task had to be of large size-21cm was the preferred calibre-any
thought of tungsten was immediately ruled out and the Roechling shell
eventually evolved into a large sub-calibre projectile with a
discarding band at the shoulder and the pot sabot at the rear.
Wrapped around the tail, inside the pot sabot, were four flexible
fins, which sprang out as the pot sabot was drawn off by air
pressure. Fired from a conventional gun, the Roechling shell was
insufficient to stabilize such a long body and the fins took over the
job as the velocity dropped during flight.

The penetration of the Roechling shell was awesome. It was not used
in 1940, but after the occupation of France and Belgium, a number of
trials were made against the French and Belgian defensive works: one
record speaks of a shell passing through 3 meters of earth cover,
36 meters of concrete, a layer of broken stone, a gun casemate and
into the floor beneath. It then passed through the floor and 5 meters
into the earth beneath before coming to rest. This, of course, was an
inert test projectile, since the live article was fuzed to detonate
when the retardation owing to penetration had stopped, that is, when
the projectile entered a space in the work.

More tomorrow. Hope this has been of interest.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 08:53:39 EST
From:    Mary Hricko <MHRICKO@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Subject: Great Escape

Hello everyone!
      For those of you interested in personal narratives concerning the
 Great Escape, I encourage you to read Patrick Reid's Escape from
 Colditz (NY: Berkley Publishers, 1965) It's library call number is
 D805.g3 r35 1965.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:05:19 -0500
From:    Ron Babuka <wrb1@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: USS Utah

>
>After she was sunk during the attack there was an unsuccessful attempt to
>salvage her.  She capsized, turtled over just as the Oklahoma.  Cables
>were attached to her and run to towers on Ford Island.  Pulleys pulled
>the cables in an attempt to right her over.   This operation was
>successful on the Oklahoma, but the Utah slid across the bottom instead,
>only partially turning over.  Hopes of salvage ended and she was abandonded.
>

Jim;  Where in relation to the Arizona does the Utah rest?  In how deep of
water does she lie?  Is the site of the Utah also "off limits" to divers
since she holds the remains of servicemen?  Is she visible from the
surface?  Are their memorial services near or about her remains?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka
Cornell University
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:15:05 -0500
From:    Ron Babuka <wrb1@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: TAC: Battle of Ormoc Bay Part II

The continuing story of the Battle or Ormoc Bay (Phillipines):

Nightmare in Ormoc Bay by Gene Anderson


Shortly after our near miss we reduced speed and under the skilled ship
handling of our Captain, we proceeded through a mine field.  Having left
the field, we again increased speed to 30 knots and entered Ormoc Bay on
schedule at midnight.  We entered the bay at the most opportune time as the
enemy was just starting to off load troops and supplies; however,  we were
naked without air cover.  Ironically we entered the bay in the same
condition that the Japanese cruisers and destroyers were in during the
Battle of Guadalcanal when they sank a number of our cruisers in 1942 in
Iron Bottom Bay near Savo Island.  The Japanese were at that time at
general quarters, their guns were loaded and aimed, while our forces were
not.  Apparently history had reversed itself as the enemy was caught off
guard and our "surprise" was complete - or was it?
        Either in their haste their supplies or their depending too much
upon their air forces to defend them, they were caught completely off guard
by our surprise visit as nothing happened until the Cooper opened fire with
a full salvo and scored a direct hit on one troop ship which immediately
ignited into a ball of flame.  However, it was apparent that the enemy had
a bigger surprise for us, for in the harbor was a large fleet of both
combat and heavily armed troop ships.  What we were told to be "easy
pickings" were six fleet-type destroyers, several armed escort ships, four
heavily armed fast transports, two Japanese type LST's built along warship
lines, several submarines, and a small fleet of torpedo boats.  Supporting
this fleet were shore batteries, shore based "Long Lance" oxygen fueled
long range torpedoes, a nearby mine field, and a countless number of
airplanes which continued to bomb and strafe us throughout the ensuing
battle.  Committed, we plunged into the fray and the hellish nightmare
commenced. We entered the bay in a stepped down line abreast formation with
the Sumner in the lead as flagship, showing only our bows and with enough
5-inch guns as fire power to constitute the secondary broadside of one of
our new battleships. Seconds after the Cooper opened fire, my ship, the
Sumner, and the Moale opened up with salvo and both ships scored with
deadly results on two troop transports which were our primary targets,
leaving them engulfed in flames and exploding in red, white, blue, green
and yellow fire balls.  In this desperately outnumbered position with so
much to fire at, it required our ships to open up with everything in the
gunnery department except torpedoes and depth charges.  The torpedoes were
held back in fear of hitting our own ships.
        All three transports which the three of us had fired on were sunk,
crediting each destroyer with one.  My ship quickly switched firing to
shore installations which toppled a big crane used to unload supplies from
the enemy ships,  also smashing warehouses, buildings, and destroying
docks.  The action rained death and confusion upon thousands of unprotected
troops at this installation and in the surrounding area.
        Supported by the other starboard 40mm gun on my ship, we were able
to fire several hundred rounds into this mess by aiming into and around the
fires started by our 5-inchers, possibly killing many of the enemy located
there.  Suddenly our 5-inch main battery with its excellent radar fire
control was forced to break action and concentrate on an enemy bomber which
was dangerously close.  It was quickly dispatched in flames.  It was at
this time that I was able to open up on an enemy plane coming out of the
moonlight and my gun mount got it's first kill.
        Suddenly the ship began to heel crazily from side to side as the
skipper conned her out of the path of a torpedo coming at us.  During these
erratic maneuvers, the crews of the enemy ships began to gather their wits
and return fire, throwing up high geysers of sea water with their shells
which would deluge the ships as they exploded harmlessly nearby in the bay.
        The horseshoe shape of Ormoc Bay had required our ships to make
high speed repeated reversing maneuvers in front of the target areas.
Added to these maneuvers were our erratic course changes to dodge
torpedoes, bombs, and shells.  It was believed that because of so many
course changes, the enemy was unable to get an accurate range on us and
these irregular course changes were our salvation.  These changes also had
caused our ships to operate independently at times and out of formation.
        Our untenable position required that our ships required that our
ships continue to fire at their maximum rate.  Everything in that bay was a
target for all guns.  That demand for ammunition had placed a heavy load on
all gun crews down in the magazines clear up to the batteries.  The gun
crews had performed like superhumans as they at times would load and fire
our 5-inch guns at near machine gun rate.  It was reported that in one 15
minute period in the battle they had cycled over 1,000 rounds of 5-inch
shells through the ships' guns.  That was quite an effort considering that
each projectile weighed about 52 pounds, and the rate of loading, aiming,
and ejecting the hot casing was about one round per barrel every five
seconds in a torrid, smoke filled turret which was constantly
rotating, and the ship was heeling and rolling making firing very
precarious. But on they loaded and fired.
        Shortly into the battle, the night began to light up like a huge
fireworks display from the red and green tracers going in all directions,
from ships and shore installations burning and exploding in multi-colored
fireballs, and from winks of fire coming from the many guns firing at us.
It was just hell!  The air became heavy with the salty smell of tons of sea
water splashing on and around us from the near misses and from exhaust
fumes of our stacks which would jar smoke and hot ashes down on us each
time the main batteries would fire.  Added to this were the acrid smell of
burnt cordite and black powder used to prevent flash from the gun barrels
at night.  The black smoke from the night powder would choke us and
momentarily blind us.  There was the smell of burnt paint, cork, , steel,
and occasionally the odor of charred flesh.  Unbelievably, added to the
stench of battle was the exotic and romantic aroma of lush tropical flowers
and foliage which grew in abundance in the surrounding jungle.
        Our hearing became numbed by the irregular din and loud roar of
guns firing constantly, bombs exploding, and near misses loudly thumping
and going off in the water. Completing the nightmare was the moon shining
through the thin hazy overcast and spreading a eerie blue light over the
entire scene. To say the least, the experience was beyond belief and never
to be forgotten.
        From time to time I would swing my weapon off anti-aircraft duty
and on to shore and surface targets.  As I fired I knew I was hitting these
targets as a 40mm round gives off a sudden bright whitish spark when it
strikes in the targeted area.  All of the 40mm crews on all of the ships
were equally engaged in this type of shooting by pouring thousands of
rounds of 1 1/2 inch diameter explosives into countless targets and
inflicting great damage and possibly killing many of the enemy.
        Even when the ship would suddenly heel violently while dodging
torpedoes and bombs,  this action would at times deflect my gun to fire
towards the water.  I would see my tracers ricochet across the water and
spark into targets afloat or on the shore.  We were under constant bombing
and strafing by enemy aircraft and suddenly  during the course of this
action, a heavy caliber shore battery located near the town of Ormoc opened
up on us and their shells would thump harmlessly into the water close by.
Thank God that battery never got our range as the size of the geyser thrown
up by each shell indicated that each one was large enough to sink us.


Tomorrow : The action picks up and the Japanese begin a concerted counter-attack
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka
Cornell University
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:42:24 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <cmort@NCOAST.ORG>
Subject: Re: Stalin & the Ukrainians

>
> From:   DAL1::BRAYMOND     "Boris Raymond"  5-DEC-1994 14:26:50.62
> To:     IN%"WWII-L@BVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU"
> CC:     BRAYMOND
> Subj:   Stalin & the Ukraininans
>
> 6 December, 1994
>
>         This post is definitely *not* intended as a flame, but
> rather as an appeal for historical precision.
>         In responding to a critical remark concerning participation
> by some Ukraininans in the German S.S., Mr. Bill Wsiaki wrote on
> 4 December:
> >       "We know full well today that Stalin had long persecuted the
> >Ukraininans.  The politically imposed famine of 1932-33 claimed an
> >estimated 6 million lives.  The brutal purges by the NKVD just prior
> >to German occupation in Ukraine further outraged the Ukraininan
> >population to the point that they were willing to fight against Russia
> >by siding with the Germans."
>
>         I feel that these assertions paint a distorted picture.
> 1--Stalin (who was not a Russian), did persecute the Ukrainians, but
> he did equally well in persecuting with equal zeal Georgians,
> Armenians, Russians, Jews and all of the other peoples of the Soviet
> Union.  Ukrainians were definitely not his only, or even his preferred
> victims.  (Remember, he abolished the the Autonomous German and Tartar
> Republics.)
> 2--The 1932-33 famine was indeed political as Mr. Wsiaki asserts.
> It was intended to "liquidate the kulaks (richer peasants) as a
> class,"  and to force the rest of the peasantry into collective farms,
> where they could be more efficiently exploited.  What Mr. Wsiaki does
> not say is that this policy was carried out throughtout the Soviet
> Unions, and produced a famine in Siberia, Belorussia, the Russian Don
> and Volga regions, as well as in the Ukraine.
> 3--The brutal purges of te NKVD (secret police), were indeed
> devastating in Kiev.  But they were equally devastating in Moscow,
> Leningrad, Minsk, Tashkent, Baku and Tblisi.
>
> My main objection to the way Mr. Wsiaki presents his brief in
> explaining the participation of a very small minority of the Ukrainian
> population in the SS, is that he relies on the false (though currently
> very popular), line of defense, to wit, "When accused of a wrongdoing,
> claim 'victimization'!" (This tactic reminds me of the old joke:
>         How does a man who killed his mother and father defend himself
>         in court?  Why, he pleads no guilty on the grounds that he is
>         an orphan.)

There is one aspect of Stalin's campaign against the Ukrainians which
stands out, namely his attempts to obliterate Ukrainian language and
culture as entities separate from their Russian counterparts.

There was no corresponding attempt to claim that there was no meaningful
linguistic difference between Russian and Georgian.

A very real aspect of Stalin's vendetta was cultural chavinism.

This is treated at length in Conquest's "Harvest of Sorrow", a general
treatment of the terror famine in the Ukraine.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 08:52:11 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <gregk@STPAUL.LIB.MN.US>
Subject: Re: WHAT IF: Seperate Peace on Eastern Front -- Hitler Replaced by Beck

sounds like an interesting scenario, but please note a couple points:

(1) Ludwig Beck was a lot of things, but a VON wasn't one of 'em.
Further, his health was none too good in 1943-- he underwent major
surgery in March of that year which left him incapacitated for some time,
so I suspect the demands of being both a coup and national leader would
be beyond his physical limits at that time.

(2) Other leading conspirators would also be unavailable for much of 1943.
Von Stauffenberg wasn't discharged from the hospital until August 1943,
and didn't return to active duty until October.  Witzleben was
hospitalized in July 1943 with a gastric ulcer, and von
Hammerstein-Equord died of throat cancer on April 24th.

(3) Henning von Treschkow seems your best bet as an available and dynamic
conspirator lead-- add to him von Kluge (who in '43 was under Treschkow's
guidance).  In the civil sector I would suggest Julius Leber and possibly
Carl Goerdler-- the former had more popularity (though as a
socialist-labour leader) while the latter was a better administrator.

Good luck; I hope your successful coup uses Boselager's cavalry unit; it
would make for an interesting battle scenario as they liquidated Hitler's
SS guards & entourage with sabers and Walthers.....


                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          gregk@stpaul.lib.mn.us

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:48:46 EST
From:    "Dennis E. Sparks" <sparks@ALPHA.CAER.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Tirpitz trivia

I happened upon this bit of trivia last night while thumbing through
a 1970 edition of "Air Combat" magazine.  Since we've recently noted
the 50th anniversary of the sinking, I thought this might be of
interest.

The 42,400 ton Tirpitz, sunk by the RAF in November 1944 in Tromso
fiord, was still a target in 1970.  Salvaged parts of the hull armor,
up to 7.8 inches thick, were being used by the Swedish Defense Dept.
to test modern armor-piercing weapons.

I wonder if they're still at it?

Dennis E. Sparks
sparks@alpha.caer.uky.edu
Lexington, Kentucky

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 11:43:24 CCS
From:    Jorge Merino <jem@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: WEAP: BB-31 USS Utah

Thanks Carl and Jim for the info on USS Utah. I have a few questions,
about it.

Jim Adams wrote:

> She also served as a target ship for planes and ships to fire at.  Her
> decks were reinforced with timbers to absorb the shock of the bombs -
> even though they were filled with water and not explosives.
>
> the Utah was very sophisticated for her time - the technology then would
> be comparable (analogious) to space shuttle of today.  When acting as a
> target ship, the Utah would be buttoned up with only an engine room crew
> buried deep inside of her.  She would be controlled remotely from anothe
> ship.

Three questions on this:

1. When the Washington treaty ended, was there any attempt to reconvert
   and modernize USS Utah into a fully operational battleship?
   (I know this is a what-if like question....)

2. What happened to her sister ship, USS Florida (BB-30)?

3. How much risky was to be a crewmember of a target ship? I guess it
   wasn't a pretty job at all....

Carl Wernke wrote:

> UTAH was declared "in ordinary" on 29 December 1941 and was placed under
> the control of the Pearl Harbor Base Force. Partially righted to clear an
> adjacent berth, she was then declared "out of commission, not in service,"
> on 5 September 1944. UTAH's name was struck from the Navy list on
> 13 November 1944. Her partially submerged hulk still remains, rusting, at
> Pearl Harbor with an unknown number of men trapped inside.

A couple of questions on this:

1. What does "in ordinary" mean? I've noted in the early post about USS
   Arizona (BB-39) that she was also declared "in ordinary" in the same
   day.

2. Is it still possible to raise USS Utah, or to put her in a more "decent"
   position? Are her remains being preserved from weather, etc?
   (Yep, another what-if like question)

Thanks for your answers,

Jorge Merino

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:30:55 -0600
From:    Mark Parillo <parillo@KSU.KSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: 50TH: HELPING THE

Friends,
   For what it's worth, I pass along the following news items.
        - Mark Parillo
          Department of History
          Kansas State University

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 07:43:18 -0500

KYODO NEWS INTERNATIONAL
           Copyright (c), 1994 KYODO News International


 9:27 43 more Hiroshima structures survived A-bombing

HIROSHIMA, Dec. 6 Kyodo

     As many as 43 more buildings in the heart of Hiroshima have been
found to have survived the dropping of the atomic bomb in World War
II, city officials said Tuesday.
     Thirty-three wooden buildings and 10 nonwooden structures within
a 5-kilometer radius of the explosion's center are still standing,
according to a Hiroshima study conducted to mark the 50th anniversary
of the bombing next year.
     Among the nonwooden structures are a crypt of ashes of the
deceased at Kotokuji temple and a crack-riddled bell tower at
Tamonin temple, both in Minami Ward, as well as a large gate at
Zenshoji temple in Naka Ward.
     In addition, 40 trees found within 2 km of the center and nine
bridges withstood the fierce winds and blazes caused by the blast,
the report said.
     In 1992 an advisory panel to the mayor of Hiroshima conducted a
study to preserve 42 buildings, 32 of which are nonwooden, seven
bridges and 18 trees that survived the bombing.
     Describing the investigation as the first ''real study,'' a
city official said the number of surviving wooden structures will
''probably increase,'' adding that they hope to meet with the owners
of the recently discovered buildings to work toward preserving the
landmarks.
     About 140,000 of Hiroshima's 340,000 residents died within five
months after the United States dropped an atomic bomb on Aug. 6,
1945, while a subsequent attack on Nagasaki claimed the lives of
70,000 of its 270,000 citizens.  Japan surrendered on Aug. 15, 1945.


 9:05 Cabinet ministers rap A-bomb stamp

TOKYO, Dec. 6 Kyodo

     Foreign Minister Yohei Kono said Tuesday he has responded to a
call by cabinet ministers to relay to U.S. leaders the feelings of
Japanese people about a planned U.S. postage stamp depicting the
mushroom cloud of the atomic bomb dropped over Hiroshima in World War
II.
     Kono, who told a press conference that he communicated the
strong reactions to the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo, said, ''The United
States is carefully considering Japan's reaction.''
     Kono also said that taking a recess from the current Diet
session is ''not impossible'' but qualified that it did not mean he
would directly meet with U.S. Secretary of State Warren Christopher.
     Kono also indicated he would meet with U.S. Ambassador to Japan
Walter Mondale at the end of the Diet session.
     Earlier the same day, Health and Welfare Minister Shoichi Ide
said at a cabinet meeting that the planned stamp ''has rubbed the
Japanese people the wrong way, as Japan is the only country to be
hit by atomic bombs.''
     Ide also said that action to convey the nation's view to the
U.S. has ''superseded the boundaries of all political factions'' and
urged Kono to communicate with U.S. leaders.
     Posts and Telecommunications Minister Shun Oide also voiced
disappointment over the planned stamp, saying that ''if the U.S.
were to print the stamp, it would be tantamount to Japan issuing a
stamp with the words 'Nuclear weapons violate international law'.''
     Oide also said a survey by the Geneva-based International
Commission of Jurists revealed that at least 20 of 31 nations agreed
that the use of nuclear weapons violates international law.
     At the bottom of the stamp is printed the caption ''Atomic
bombs hasten war's end, August 1945.''
     Oide said it was ''not necessary'' for the U.S. to use those
words on the stamp, reasoning that some may interpret it as an
opinion in favor of the use of nuclear weapons.
     A set of 10 stamps, including the controversial mushroom cloud
stamp, reportedly will be on sale next year to commemorate the 50th
anniversary of the end of World War II.


 8:08 Museum to display articles from WWII battles in Okinawa

NAHA, Japan, Dec. 6 Kyodo

     A collection of some 2,000 war articles left from battles on the
isles of Okinawa during World War II and collected by a former U.S.
military officer will be displayed in a museum to be opened Wednesday.
     The Battle of Okinawa Museum will feature guns, swords, medicine
bottles, soldier identification tags and other articles unearthed
from the trenches used by the Japanese army and U.S. forces which
landed on the islands near the end of the war.
     Dave Davenport, 50, a resident of Okinawa and former American
officer who collected the articles, said he conducted the search so
that others can know the tragedies involving Okinawa citizens caught
within the clashes between U.S. and Japanese soldiers.
     Davenport said the museum will return to their rightful owners
the photos, postcards and other items that soldiers took from the
abandoned homes of Okinawa citizens before returning to the United
States.
     He was stationed in Okinawa for 16 years before retiring from
the U.S. Air Force in 1988.  On every weekend since last year,
Davenport and his friends hunted for the war articles by digging out
trenches on the islands, including Okinawa itself and Iejima.
     The museum is scheduled to open in the U.S. marine base Camp
Kinser located in Urasoe, Okinawa, the southernmost set of islands
in Japan.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:56:32 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <gregk@STPAUL.LIB.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Waffen-SS (Kurt Gerstein)

Before anyone starts drawing conclusions, I suggest a couple of titles--

A SPY FOR GOD: THE ORDEAL OF KURT GERSTEIN
     by Pierre Joffroy.  Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1971.

KURT GERSTEIN: THE AMBIGUITY OF GOOD.
     by Saul Friedlander.  Alfred Knopf, 1969.

there's also a good entry on Gerstein in the recent ENCYLOPEDIA OF THE
HOLOCAUST from Macmillan.

IMHO, Gerstein's gotten a LOT of bad press over his actions, which is
hardly surprising since everything he did flew in the face of the vaunted
SS oaths & creeds which so many postwar revisionist groups try to preserve.
Sure, he was flawed--most humans are.  Maybe he could've done more, maybe
some of his efforts have been exaggerated, but he did a heckava lot more
than most people in his position (in fact, he was IN that position ONLY
to do what he did).  His suicide at the depth of despair over what had
happened and what he failed to do speaks for itself (I put little
credence into rumors that his suicide was an act of SS vengence by fellow
inmates).

And for those who question whether individual members of the SS could act
as Gerstein did, I suggest they read

THE SHADOW OF HIS WINGS
     by Karl Gereon Goldmann.  Francisan Herald Press, 1964.

Goldmann was an SS officer cadet who defied Nazi regulations and
performed the duties of a Catholic priest for members of his unit.  Was
ordained as a Franciscan priest postwar.

The good are often few and far between......


                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          gregk@stpaul.lib.mn.us

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 10:50:23 EST
From:    "Larry W. Jewell" <ljewell@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: DOC: Naval Historical Records

I saw a post about Morison's books being available from the National
Historical Society so I gave them a call (1-800-347-7831) and they sent
me a teaser about both Morison's series and "Naval Official Records".
I say "teaser" because NHS is moving its operations and I won't get
anything in hardcopy until January.  I will post what I find out when
it's available.

Larry J

LJEWELL@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU; Co-Mod.: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 11:39:25 -0500
From:    chris garcia <moonie@DORSAI.DORSAI.ORG>
Subject: Re: Military Dictators vs Rivals: A Question

On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Lee Windsor u wrote:

> Hey there Chris!
>
> As this is the WWII list I won't dwell on the Irag thing too much, but
> there is just one point I want to make.  Iraq may have had superiority in
> numbers of machines and soldiers, however, look at the quality of both.
> The example that sticks out most in my mind is that the bulk of Iraqi
> tank strength consisted of T-55's.  As a Canadian tank crewman, I know
> that even our worn out Leopards can take out a T-55 without any trouble.
> The other issue is training.  with the exception of the Revolutionary
> Guard, did the Saddam's army have the modern battle offensive doctrine
> required for offensive ops against the Saudi's and what limited Allied
> material was on the ground during the build up.  Pound for pound, the
> Allied soldiers in the Gulf were much better trained and equipped, even if
> out numbered, and our knowledge of WWII shows that it makes the difference.

Your point on training is actually very important.  I read somewhere that
almost all but three of the German fighter aces with over 100 air kills
began combat before 1941.  This is significant because before the war
heated up pilots were trained very throughly, almost leisurely, with very
high standards.  As the war progress, the Luftwaffe was soon throwing
Hitler youth with only a few hours training in cockpits.  One mustang
pilot reported the odd sight of a Me109 crabbing sideways into the wind
because the rookie at the stick didn't know how to trim his plane.  You
hardly have the heart to shoot them down.  In his autobiography "Samurai"
japanese ace Saburu Sakai described the almost fanatical training fighter
pilots had at the beginning of the war compared to the criminally poor
training they had at the end.  I.E. a japanese Zero pilot had to prove he
was capable of picking out stars in a blue daylight sky!

My original point is getting a little lost- Hitler retained his best and
brightest, and they began to conspire against him when the going got rough.
Stalin purged his before the war began and was just plain lucky some more
good generals emerged to take their place.  Is this the kind of choice a
dictator has to face if he's fighting in a modern war?


>
>
> The axis forces in the early stage of WWII > > were largely bluff.  The
Luftwaffe especially was never adequate to fight > > and then the US, it
must have just made his Generals' hairs stand on end. > > HItler got into
this "Macbeth" thing where you just have to keep on > > taking over
country after country for the sake of securing your borders- > > and then
where does it stop? > > I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment
and point out that > Hitler's decision to invade Russia and declare war on
the US, while > stretching the idea of rationality, did have some
reasoning behind it. > British offensive capability(with the exception of
Bomber Command) had > been eliminated for the time being by 1940.  Hitler
could build up his > sea and air power to launch Sealion, or use his
already powerful army on > Russia right away before Uncle Joe could finish
his modernization > program.  As for the Americans, Hitler thought that by
the time they > could reach the Continent in force, the Soviets would be
toast.  Given > what the Germans _thought_ the Soviets had, it sounds
almost sensible, > ALMOST! > > food fo thought! > > Lee Windsor, 8th
Hussars

Food for thought.  Thanks.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 12:06:37 EST
From:    Richard Kaplan <kaplanr@CLP2.CLPGH.ORG>
Subject: Holocaust Victim's Hair & Skin

Hi all, I've been dormant for a while, but this discussion has prompted me to
contribute a little.  To my knowledge, Yad Vashem - the Holocaust Rememberance
Authority in Israel - is highly skeptical of the skin to lampshade and body to
soap theories.  The lampshade exhibits they have in Jerusalem are from Torah
scrolls, which are calfskin.  Unless you see the Hebrew print on them, they
could be taken for blank skin.  The same is true of the soap stories; holdovers
from WWI.
This is important to me because there is enough evidence to support the truth,
without having to contrive evidence.  Shaving the hair is demoralizing,w3{it
also accents the role of the prisoner, and keeps the delousing lie just a
little bit longer.



                                                Richard Kaplan
                                                Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 12:17:01 -0500
From:    QUACK <MUSCORJ@HSDWL.UTC.COM>
Subject: Books

I just received from our Corporate Library:

1. Great Weapons of WWII by Kirk & Young 1961

2. Submarine by U.S. Naval Institute

3. The Grumman Guidebook  American Aircraft Series  Mitch Mayborn
   Copy #246 of 500 printed

  Very nice but the Submarine shows Operations in WWII. First printed 1949
and the last 1956. This starts with 12/41 and goes to the end of the war.
Anybody know where to get a copy for my collection of numbers 2 & 3?
  Thanks, Ron

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 12:20:57 EST
From:    Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

On Fri, 2 Dec 1994 18:01:47 EST SGM Robert S. Rush said:
>veterans became casualties its effectiveness was dramatically reduced. As long
>as there were veterans around whom the replacements could coalesce the regiment
>moved forward.  The loss of these small unit leaders quite possibly dealt a
>more deadly blow to the regiment's ability to attack than did the loss of every
>rifle company and battalion commander.
>
>The Regiment without doubt lived up to its motto Deeds, not words.
>
>Thus the epic of the 22d in the Hurtgen comes to an end.
>
>I welcome any comments

A very good series.  It shows quite clearly the difficulty in absorbing
replacements and the importance of good small unit leaders.  Fighting through
that wood probably came as close to hell as any rational being would care
to get.

It raises the question of US vs. German replacement practices.  The German
philosophy seems to have been to "burn up" a division down to its cadre,
then pull it out for refitting & to absorb replacements.  The US on the
other hand seems to have used its divisions as pipelines for the steady
absorption of new troops.  Paradoxically, this probably had a worse effect
on morale:  a German soldier could pretend to himself that he was going to
survive to become one of the cadre & eventually get away from the front.
A US infantryman, on the other hand, knew he wasn't going anywhere until
the war was over, unless it was on a stretcher.  Can someone suggest an
in-depth treatment of this topic, and comparisons with the other major
forces?

ken koester
maint2@ers.bitnet

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 12:39:32 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <KILLAR@MARY.FORDHAM.EDU>
Subject: Re: writing

Can someone Email me the message about the writing about combat
post that people posted 2 days ago, the only thing I remeber from
it was that it was for 5000-15000 words and that it was to be fiction,
I printed it out here but someone lost it and I would be
greatful if someone could send it to me because I intend to write
something for it, thanks

John E. Kollar
killar@fordham.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:37:10 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <paa5137@DPSC.DLA.MIL>
Subject: MEDIA:A-Bomb Stamp

>From the DoD Newswire 2 December 1994

:A-BOMB STAMP IRES SURVIVORS

   TOKYO  -- Survivors of the U.S. atomic bombing of Japan and
anti-nuclear bomb activists said Thursday they are angry about a
U.S. Postal Service plan to issue a stamp commemorating the attack.
   "This is outrageous," said Sunao Tsuboi, acting director of the
30,000-member Hiroshima Prefectural Confederation of A-bomb
Survivors Organizations. "It makes our blood boil with anger," he
told the Associated Press.
   Tsuboi was commenting on the stamp's caption: "Atomic bombs
hasten war's end, August 1945." Many critics of the bombings of
Hiroshima and Nagasaki on Aug. 6 and 9 that year say there were more
humane ways to make Japan surrender, ending World War II.
   The stamp design, a composite of mushroom clouds created by the
wartime bombings and nuclear tests after the war, is scheduled to be
released next year around the 50th anniversary of the Allied victory
of World War II.
   About 140,000 of Hiroshima's 340,000 residents died within five
months after the Aug. 6 raid, while the attack on Nagasaki killed
another 70,000 of that city's 270,000. Japan surrendered on Aug. 15,
1945.
   Tsuboi said his organization will consult with other anti-nuclear
groups in Hiroshima and Nagasaki on what action to take against the
stamp.
   "The use of weapons of mass destruction like those dropped on
Hiroshima and Nagasaki should never be legitimated under any
circumstances," said Kazuya Yasuda, a top official of the Japan
Council Against Atomic and Hydrogen Bombs, a private group
campaigning to abolish nuclear arms worldwide.
   Local officials in both cities also expressed displeasure with
the stamp.
   In October, Takashi Hiraoka, the mayor of Hiroshima sent a
letter, to Vice President Al Gore contending that a U.S. Senate
resolution seeking changes to a war exhibit in Washington next year
was tantamount to condoning the 1945 atomic bombing of his city.
   The exhibit, which will feature the first public display of the
Enola Gay, the plane that dropped the bomb on Hiroshima, is planned
for May 1995 at Washington's Smithsonian Institution.
   The Smithsonian agreed to revise the script earlier this year
after veterans groups said it was too sympathetic to wartime Japan.
They also said it was unjustly critical of the use of a device that
may have saved thousands of lives by making a bloody invasion of the
Japanese home islands unnecessary and hastening the end the war.

=======


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        jirwin@dpsc.dla.mil
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 06:25:52 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <jimadams@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: USS Utah

Ron asked more about the Utah.

the Utah lies on the opposite side of Ford Island from the Arizona,
sometimes refered to as the forgotten battleship.  She rests at about a
45 degree angle, on her starboard side.  Protruding from the water is
part of her superstructure and port side hull, rusting away.  Her bottom
is buried in the harbor mud from 35 feet at the bow and about 45 feet at
her stern.  As the Arizona, she is off limits to divers (with the
exception of Park Service and Navy divers conducting research on these
two shipwrecks, which is my job.)

Utah is also a grave.  Fifty eight crew died on her, estimated that about
45 were "buried" with the ship.

there is a small memorial, white concrete pier, that extends from Ford
Island.  On the Utah Memorial flies the American colors, and are several
plaques, to include a listing of all crew members that died.

the Utah is a National Historic Landmark.

Utah is under the control of the Navy, but we at the Arizona Memorial
keep an eye on her.  For the last couple of weeks we have been running
special tour boats around Ford Island so that visitors could see her.
This is something that we hope that we will be able to continue on some
basis in the future.  Other than that, the public does not have access to
her as Ford Island is not accessable to public, active (isolated) part of
the Navy base.



****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       jimadams@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu
Cultural Resource Manager
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS       (808) 422-2771  extension 130
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:33:36 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <paa5137@DPSC.DLA.MIL>
Subject: MEDIA:Pearl Harbor Vindication?

>From the DoD Newswire 2 December 1994

:PEARL HARBOR VINDICATION EYED

   WASHINGTON  -- For 50 years two U.S. military leaders have
been regarded as sleeping sentries in the Japanese attack on Pearl
Harbor, men who ignored signs the heart of the Pacific Fleet was in
mortal danger.
   But some historians and old military hands insist Rear Adm.
Husband E. Kimmel and Lt. Gen. Walter C. Short were wrongly
disgraced.
   They are pressing efforts to vindicate the men, both cited during
the war for dereliction of duty and both now dead.
   Kimmel and Short were hardly "sleeping," British author John
Costello said Thursday at a National Archives lecture, joined by two
other like-minded historians.
   Instead, they were like "two guards who had been blindfolded by
the lack of intelligence, told to face the wrong direction, and
inadequately armed to fend off an enemy attack."
   U.S. officials refused as recently as last year to revisit the
matter, despite the urgings of the Kimmel family, 32 retired
admirals and two former chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
   Restoring their reputations, said historian Edward Beach, author
of the coming book, "Scapegoats," would "be a remedial act of
justice in the name of the country."
   At least one former senior military official has changed his mind
about Kimmel. Adm. C.A.H. Trost, who recommended letting the issue
rest when he was chief of naval operations in 1988, now says the
case should be reopened.
   "No mistake should be allowed to stand in this sensitive matter,
and I personally disavow my unwitting support of one," Trost, now
retired, wrote in October to Navy Secretary John Dalton.
   Democratic Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware, where Kimmel's sons
live, wrote to Defense Secretary William Perry in October urging him
to promote Kimmel posthumously to four-star admiral, the rank he
normally would have achieved had he not been forced into retirement.
Perry hasn't replied, a spokesman for Biden's office said.
   Kimmel, who was commander of the Pacific Fleet, and Short,
commander of the Army's Hawaii department, were blamed in official
inquiries for playing down intelligence reports warning of Japan's
intentions and for mounting inadequate reconnaissance.
   The surprise attack on Dec. 7, 1941, killed 2,403 people, sank or
damaged 18 warships, destroyed 188 planes and drew the United States
into World War II.
   Costello says his new book, "Days of Infamy," builds on
previously reported evidence that the Hawaiian commanders were not
given the full benefit of American intelligence.
   The commanders indeed shrugged off some 11th-hour signals of
trouble, he said, including reports that the Japanese consulate in
Honolulu had destroyed its codes -- an act often foretelling war.
   But he said they did so because a steady drumbeat of intelligence
from Washington had pointed to the Philippines as the likely target
of Japan's move against U.S. forces.
   In the Philippines, Costello said, Gen. Douglas MacArthur had
received "the full diplomatic picture of Japan's march toward
belligerence," but did nothing.
   Nine hours after attacking Pearl Harbor, Japan bombed Clark Field
in the Philippines, destroying 18 bombers, 55 fighters and 33 other
planes.
   U.S. code-breakers had been reading Japanese diplomatic cables
for months. But some historians say messages that could have been
key to a successful Pearl Harbor defense were misread or ignored in
Washington or otherwise kept from Hawaii.
   Another criticism of Kimmel was that he should have had scout
planes circling Oahu 800 miles out, and that he did not act on
warnings to pay special attention to the north and northwest. On
Dec. 7, Japanese planes swept in from due north.
   Historian Michael Gannon said Kimmel only had 20 percent of the
patrol planes necessary for effective reconnaissance. And he said
reports Kimmel was told to look north proved wrong.

=====

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        jirwin@dpsc.dla.mil
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 06:34:56 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <jimadams@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: USS Utah

PS,

forgot the last part of Ron's question on Utah.  No there are not any
memorial services at the Utah

On December 7th, there are two services in Pearl Harbor.  The Arizona
Memorial is closed in the early morning for the Navy to conduct a service
on the memorial.  Attendees are navy vips (stars, etc.); this is their
time.  Shore side at the Arizona Memorial Visitor Center and Museum the
National Park Service holds a service for the public.  It is conducted on
the back lanai and grounds overlooking Pearl Harbor, Ford Island, and the
memorial.  Both services honor all those that died on December 7th, not
just the Arizona.

A third service is held in the afternoon at the Visitor Center.  This one
is by and for the Pearl Harbor Survivors Association.  Theirs is held at
sunset.  Most of them also attend one of the morning services as well.

On the lanai we have the Remembrance Exhibit, which lists all casaulties
of December 7th from the island, to include civilians.


Guess I got a little off track, oh well.


****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       jimadams@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu
Cultural Resource Manager
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS       (808) 422-2771  extension 130
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 12:15:59 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Stalin & the Ukrainians

Hello, Boris!

I would like to add that the casualty figure is way too low. The
number of 6 million deaths as a result of starvation is much too
conservative.

The estimate is closer to 20 million, and Stalin himself said in a
private conversation with Churchill, I believe, at Yalta, that the
Collectivization process caused more disruption and dislocation that
did the German invasion and occupation.

Thanks.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 12:26:55 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: HIST: Hair, etc., from KZ inmates

Hello, Warren!

I can answer that.

> Question: Has it been verified that lampshades were made from human skin

    I saw such a display in 1972 in an East Berlin museum located on
Unter den Linden. Also a paperweight made from the shrunken head of a
KZ inmate. They weren't fakes, and such a display was used as
evidence at the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials.


 , soap
> from human fat, and so on?

    Yes. You can read about this in almost any book dealing with
Auschwitz.

 If so, was this a widespread practice?

    So far as I know. The SS rarely if at any time wasted anything
that was produced at a KZ. In fact, there was wide-spread corruption
among the camp commanders who dealt on the Black Market, if you can
imagine that. In fact, it got to be such a problem, that Himmler
himself initiated investigations into it. Consult "The Theory and
Practice of Hell" by Eugen Kogon.


 And by whom?

     Can't give you a definitive answer on this, but, as mentioned
above, almost everything imaginable was used in some way and rarely
discarded.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 13:11:59 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Close Air Support in Normandy

Hello, Henry!

This may have already been answered, but will add my two cents' to it.


> Rudel got 187 aircraft in a Stuka?

    Not really. His specialty in ground support was tanks. He is
credited with shooting down 12 aircraft.


 Counting ground kills, certainly.
> But if that's his air combat claim, I'm inclined to knock a zero or two
> off that tank total as well. Does anyone have details on this?

    He destroyed 519 tanks, flew 2130 missions and accumulated over
6000 hours of combat.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 13:15:33 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: TACT: Japan if no Pearl

Hello, Cherie!

Will add my two cents' to this.

>      If Japan was primarily interested in created the so-called "Greater
> East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, and had confined it self to that mission,
> would the US have attempted to stop their expansion.

    Probably not, as it did not involve direct American interests, as
this area did for the Netherlands and England.


In fact, could the US
> have stopped them?

    Probably not for the same reasons above.

When Yamamoto crafted the Pearl Harbor plan, his thought
> seems to have been to strike a preemptive blow, preventing any US attempt to
> stifle their southward moves. It seems he had little other interest in the US.

    Yes. The last thing Yammamoto wanted was war with the US, because
he knew it would be a war that Japan could not win.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 13:18:51 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: INF: Regia Marina, Part 2

Hello, Carl!


Thanks for the additional info on those Japanese torpedoes.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 13:19:57 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Tokyo Documents

Hello, Carl!

Did you receive the listing of books on cryptography I posted to the
List? Please advise.

Hope all is well.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 13:37:30 -0600
From:    Mark Parillo <parillo@KSU.KSU.EDU>
Subject: "comfort women" compensation

   Here is the latest on the ongoing story of the "comfort women" and
their attempts to get compensation from Japan.

       - Mark Parillo
         Department of History
         Kansas State University

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 13:20:04 -0500

KYODO NEWS INTERNATIONAL
           Copyright (c), 1994 KYODO News International


12:32 Coalition to urge gov't to pay wartime 'comfort women'

TOKYO, Dec. 6 Kyodo

     A panel of members of the three ruling coalition parties agreed
Tuesday to urge the government to shoulder part of a planned private
fund aimed at paying redress to women forced into prostitution for
Japanese soldiers in World War II, party officials said.
     The agreement was reached at a meeting of a panel of the Liberal
Democratic Party, Social Democratic Party and New Party Sakigake set
up to study the issue of the so-called ''comfort women.''
     It proposes the establishment of a private-sector fund to pay
consolatory money to such women, and calls for the government to pay
''as much as possible'' toward the fund, in effect urging the
government to pay individual restitution to the women.
     Chief Cabinet Secretary Kozo Igarashi, however, reiterated later
in the day a government policy of not paying direct compensation, and
said the government can shoulder only the preparatory costs of the
fund and the implementation of a 100 billion yen program to atone for
Japan's wartime crimes as a whole.
     The planned program, which would cost 100 billion yen over the
next 10 years, is aimed at promoting peace and friendly ties between
Japan and other Asian nations to express remorse for Japan's wartime
actions, but would avoid individually compensating victims of the
country's atrocities.
     In refusing to pay direct, individual redress, the government
argues that the issue of war compensation and reparation was settled
long ago through bilateral treaties.  Private observers believe that
the government fears any moves toward such individual compensation
would unleash an endless stream of demands.
     The private fund agreed among the ruling coalition parties is
targeted only at wartime sex slaves.
     The fund is likely to be as big as 10 billion yen, with perhaps
2 million yen going to each victim, the same amount the government
pays to relatives of Taiwanese who died in the war after being
conscripted into the former Japanese army, political sources said.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 15:03:28 -0500
From:    David Rising <drising@ACS.BU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Netherlands: Holocaust

On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Anthony Anderson wrote:

> Henry! {This is a private posting] I am not sure that I can agree with
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No it's not.

> your assessment that the Danes' achievement was "incredible". The Jewish
> community there was miniscule--approximately 7000 in number. Transporting
> them to Sweden was not at all a difficult undertaking....Still, it should
> not go unrecognized and you certainly very right in acknowledging the
> Finns' very real resistance to Nazi racial policies, something often
> forgotten.

Keep in mind that Finland wasn't occupied  like Holland and Denmark were.
The nature of the different occupation governments has a lot to do with
the reason most of the Dutch Jews were killed, and most of the Danish
Jews were saved. Also, Nazi Germany had a very real use for Finland in
fighting the Russians, so it is unlikely that they would have
intentionaly tried to "force" them to give up their Jewish population.
Finally, just look at the geography. It would be almost impossible for
Germany to have gotten close enough to Finland to either a) occupy or b)
compel them to give up the Jews. Just my 2c.
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 15:27:26 -0500
From:    "Mr. Scott Hannon" <hannon@UMBC.EDU>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

Ken Koester writes:

>It raises the question of US vs. German replacement practices.  The
>German philosophy seems to have been to "burn up" a division down to
>its cadre, then pull it out for refitting & to absorb replacements.

Yes, by late '44 this was common, but more due to manpower problems
than being the prefered way to go about it. The disasters of summer
'44 (west and east fronts) were more than the German replacement
system could handle...especially with all the new divisions being
formed. It was not rare for divisions to stay on the lines until
effective infantry strength was only a thousand men or less. This
meant divisions often needed more than mere replacements to again be
made fit...often the infantry cadre was sent off to another refitting
division to reform a regiment in that division, and the old division
was entirely rebuilt with a mish mash of Volkstrum, police, Luftwaffe,
navy, etc, units and men. Reformed divisions thus varied greatly
in quality, depending upon the quality of the troops used to
rebuild them (which was rarely good), and the level of unit training
before being sent back on line (usually inadequate or worse).

The old German practice was to form units on a regional basis and
drawing replacements from that area. This was effective for unit
cohesion, but by '44 was no longer practical.

>The US on the
>other hand seems to have used its divisions as pipelines for the steady
>absorption of new troops.

The US also had a severe replacement problem in fall/winter '44. This
was about the time frame when Eisenhower issued his plea to deserters
to return to infantry units in exchange for pardons (there were maybe
100 thousand in France...only a hundred or so accepted the offer).

I think the main source of replacements was from stripping troops out
of divisions still training in the USA. That's part of the reason the
divisions raised in mid-1942 took until early 1945 to deploy to
Europe...they kept having many/most of their trained troops stripped
out and sent off as replacements to the divisions already in the field.
Then raw troops would take their place and need training (after which
they'd once again likely be sent out as replacements!).

While this certainly slowed down the introduction of new divisions,
it did allow those divisions at the front to remain at near TOE strength
and at a fairly consistent good quality level even though many of these
divisions had suffered heavy losses since arriving at the front. In
other words, pretty much the opposite situation as the Germans.  :-)

>Can someone suggest an in-depth treatment of this topic, and
>comparisons with the other major forces?

In-depth, comprehensive, and trustworthy? No. But Keith Bonn's _When the
Odds Were Even_ is a trustworthy in-depth comparison of US and German
forces (including TOEs, training, replacements practices, and combat
doctrine) and combat during the Oct '44 to Jan '45 campaign in the
Vosges hills and mountain of France. It's very informative and a
fairly pleasant read. Published by Presido Press a few months ago.

There are other books on the subject...a 3 volume set by various
authors covering _Combat Effectiveness_ in WW1 (vol 1), between
the wars (vol 2), and WW2 (vol 3). These were published around ten
years ago (hardback and large paperback a couple years later) but
might still be available. I've not read any of these cover-to-cover,
so I can't fairly comment on them.

And van Creveldt (sp?) did a book on US vs German effectiveness, although
it has apparently been out of print since 1980 and not reprinted (unlike
his other books). Keith Bonn very briefly mentions this book in his, and
apparently holds it in contempt as excedingly bad history and
analysis.

Scott.
Scott Hannon, Tue Dec 6 1994 (hannon@umbc.edu)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 15:47:35 -0600
From:    Cooper Addison <cadd@FALCON.TAMUCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

Stuff deleted

> Can someone suggest an in-depth treatment of this topic, and
comparisons with the other major > forces?
>
> ken koester
> maint2@ers.bitnet
>
I would enjoy information on this topic also as I have maintained for
years the army fell apart in VN because of the replacement
system which prevented the core formation of tactical units.  The best
book I have read on problems with the replacement system in WWII is
-The Draftee Division- (88th) by John Sloan Brown.

Cooper Addison

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 16:58:01 -0500
From:    Lee Windsor u <wind6011@MACH1.WLU.CA>
Subject: Query:  Doug McCabe

Hello Doug!

The father of one of my classmates served with the Canadian 3rd div in
the Scheldt, and the liberation of Holland.  He has a strong interest in
Operation Market-Garden.  I told him about your work with the Ryan
notes.  Is there anyway to collect all the posts you put up in the last
few months on that topic, without going through the entire list archive.
If its too much trouble then don't worry about it but if you still have
them saved somewhere I would appreciate it very much if you could forward
them.

Thanks in advance.

Semper Fi

Lee A. Windsor,
8th Hussars "A" Sqn.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 16:01:31 -0600
From:    Cooper Addison <cadd@FALCON.TAMUCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

On Tue, 6 Dec 1994, Mr. Scott Hannon wrote:

>
> While this certainly slowed down the introduction of new divisions,
> it did allow those divisions at the front to remain at near TOE strength
> and at a fairly consistent good quality level even though many of these
> divisions had suffered heavy losses since arriving at the front. In
> other words, pretty much the opposite situation as the Germans.  :-)
>
While you can make a case for the divisions being in pretty good shape
for most of the year they fought, it may also be that this was ceasing to
be the case when the war ended. In _The Draftee Divison_  it says "Highly
regarded divisions such as the 1st in the Hurtgen rendered themselves
somnambulate." In his book, Rob Rush makes the point that after the core
of small unit leaders were gone the 22nd was long time recovering.
Possibly an infantry unit has only so many tuneups before a major
overhaul?

Cooper

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 17:59:10 EST
From:    "H. Emery Ford" <eford@DELPHI.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Stalin & the Ukrainians

Hi All!

I have an excerpt from Alan Bullock's HITLER AND STALIN that I would
like to post with regards to one example Stalin's contempt for
Ukrainian nationalism:

Em

[1933]

Having dealt his "smashing blow" to the peasantry, Stalin continued his
campaign against the national identity of the Ukrainians.  One way in
which this had been sustained in the countryside since time immemorial
had been by the kobzars, peasant bards, often blind, who wandered from
village to village singing songs and reciting ballads, which reminded
the Ukrainian peasantry of their independent and heroic past.  Such a
survival was an anachronism in the brave new world of Soviet Communism.
The bards were invited to the first All-Ukrainian Congress, several
hundred of them, only to be arrested and for the most part shot.
Reporting this, the Russian composer Dmitri Shostakovich says in his
TESTIMONY that the kozbars were "a living museum, the country's living
history:  all its songs, all its music and poetry.  And they were almost
all shot, almost all these pathetic blind men killed....Hurting a blind
man---what could be lower?"

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 18:27:09 -0500
From:    Carlos R Rivera <crivera@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: MEDIA:A-Bomb Stamp

Hello All, here is where diversity in hobbies comes in very very useful.  If
one looks in any good stamp catalog, one can find an officially released
postage stamp, upon which the Japanese government recreated the politically
correct sneak attack upon Pearl Harbor.  Funny, I do not recall any apologia
from the wartime supporters of the Japanese government, nor from any of the
post-war whiners about the costs of war, just my two cents after a significant
time of lurking.
Carlos R. Rivera
>
> >From the DoD Newswire 2 December 1994
>
> :A-BOMB STAMP IRES SURVIVORS
>
>    TOKYO  -- Survivors of the U.S. atomic bombing of Japan and
> anti-nuclear bomb activists said Thursday they are angry about a
> U.S. Postal Service plan to issue a stamp commemorating the attack.
>    "This is outrageous," said Sunao Tsuboi, acting director of the
> 30,000-member Hiroshima Prefectural Confederation of A-bomb
> Survivors Organizations. "It makes our blood boil with anger," he
> told the Associated Press.
>    Tsuboi was commenting on the stamp's caption: "Atomic bombs
> hasten war's end, August 1945." Many critics of the bombings of
> Hiroshima and Nagasaki on Aug. 6 and 9 that year say there were more
> humane ways to make Japan surrender, ending World War II.
>    The stamp design, a composite of mushroom clouds created by the
> wartime bombings and nuclear tests after the war, is scheduled to be
> released next year around the 50th anniversary of the Allied victory
> of World War II.
>    About 140,000 of Hiroshima's 340,000 residents died within five
> months after the Aug. 6 raid, while the attack on Nagasaki killed
> another 70,000 of that city's 270,000. Japan surrendered on Aug. 15,
> 1945.
>    Tsuboi said his organization will consult with other anti-nuclear
> groups in Hiroshima and Nagasaki on what action to take against the
> stamp.
>    "The use of weapons of mass destruction like those dropped on
> Hiroshima and Nagasaki should never be legitimated under any
> circumstances," said Kazuya Yasuda, a top official of the Japan
> Council Against Atomic and Hydrogen Bombs, a private group
> campaigning to abolish nuclear arms worldwide.
>    Local officials in both cities also expressed displeasure with
> the stamp.
>    In October, Takashi Hiraoka, the mayor of Hiroshima sent a
> letter, to Vice President Al Gore contending that a U.S. Senate
> resolution seeking changes to a war exhibit in Washington next year
> was tantamount to condoning the 1945 atomic bombing of his city.
>    The exhibit, which will feature the first public display of the
> Enola Gay, the plane that dropped the bomb on Hiroshima, is planned
> for May 1995 at Washington's Smithsonian Institution.
>    The Smithsonian agreed to revise the script earlier this year
> after veterans groups said it was too sympathetic to wartime Japan.
> They also said it was unjustly critical of the use of a device that
> may have saved thousands of lives by making a bloody invasion of the
> Japanese home islands unnecessary and hastening the end the war.
>
> =======
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
>  Defense Personnel Support Center        jirwin@dpsc.dla.mil
>  2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
>  Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678
>
>                      "Never in the field of human conflict
>                      was so much owed by so many to so few."
>                                Winston S. Churchill
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 18:41:17 -0500
From:    David Rising <drising@ACS.BU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "comfort women" compensation

I just heard on the BBC this morning that the Japanese had decided _not_
to compensate these women. This doesn't jibe with the article (deleted),
but is, I think, the current situation.
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 18:56:08 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <hhs@EVEREST.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Close Air Support in Normandy

Dear Terry,

Thanks for the update on Rudel. Twelve I can believe, and 519 tanks as
a tank-hunter is OK as well.

Henry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 19:29:06 EST
From:    "H. Emery Ford" <eford@DELPHI.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: WHAT IF: Seperate Peace on Eastern Front -- Hitler Replaced by Beck

Hi Greg!

On Tue, 06 Dec 94, Greg Kelley wrote:

[stuff deleted]

>Good luck; I hope your successful coup uses Boselager's cavalry unit; it
>would make for an interesting battle scenario as they liquidated Hitler's
>SS guards & entourage with sabers and Walthers.....

Thanks Greg.  I have to ask, though.  What are the "Boselager's cavalry
unit"?  I have never heard of these before.

Also, thanks for all of your assistance.  Your reply was extremely
valuable.

Regards.

Em

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 17:09:51 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Query:  Doug McCabe

>
> Hello Doug!
>
> The father of one of my classmates served with the Canadian 3rd div in
> the Scheldt, and the liberation of Holland.  He has a strong interest in
> Operation Market-Garden.  I told him about your work with the Ryan
> notes.  Is there anyway to collect all the posts you put up in the last
> few months on that topic, without going through the entire list archive.
> If its too much trouble then don't worry about it but if you still have
> them saved somewhere I would appreciate it very much if you could forward
> them.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Semper Fi
>
> Lee A. Windsor,
> 8th Hussars "A" Sqn.
>
>

Lee - I captured the entire series and have it stored as one single file out
on my 50 Years Ago archives. I've enclosed both WWW and FTP instructions
below. If you don't have either WWW or FTP let me know and I will mail it to
you. It is rather large (about 100K) so it might be too much for your mail
program to receive.

The best way to access the "50 Years Ago" archives is through the World Wide
Web. The WWW URL is "http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html".  You may also
download the files by anonymous FTP. I have included instructions for doing
this below.

Instructions for downloading files by FTP -

The 50 YA articles are stored by month. To retrieve the articles by FTP, open
host "ftp.webcom.com", enter "anonymous" when prompted for login ID, enter
your Internet mail address when prompted for password. To change to the
directory where the articles are stored enter "cd /pub/jbd/www". Enter
command "ls" to get a listing of all the files available. The file name
identifies the month for 50 YA articles (example - sep1944.txt, contains the
September 1944 articles).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 20:44:00 -0500
From:    David Rising <drising@ACS.BU.EDU>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

On Tue, 6 Dec 1994, Mr. Scott Hannon wrote:
-lots deleted-
[Ike asked deserters]
> to return to infantry units in exchange for pardons (there were maybe
> 100 thousand in France...only a hundred or so accepted the offer).
-more deleted-

This figure cannot possibly be correct... can it? Seems like it would be
about two digits too high to me (but that's just a hunch). Cheers,
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 19:41:24 -0600
From:    Drew Halevy <dhalevy@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: weapons-Russian bombers

Fellow WWII'ers,

I recently bought a copy of JANE'S fighting aircraft of world war two.
While reading, I came across a plane called the TB-7, a heavy bomber,
with a range of 2,500 miles w/ bomb load of 4,400 lbs, and a speed of 280
mp/h. This raises a question-did the Russians carry out long range
bombing against Germany?-Thanks-Drew

Drew Philip Halevy      |
Grad Student            | A boy has never wept,
Department of History   | nor dashed a thousand kim-
University of Arkansas  | Dutch Shultz's last words
DHALEVY@COMP.UARK.EDU   |

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:16:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: 7 DEC 41: Introduction

Today, 7 December 1994, is the 53d anniversary of the Japanese attack on
the Territory of Hawaii.  The attack began at approximately 0755 hours
local, i.e., 1325 hours Eastern Standard Time (EST) or 1825 hours GMT, Zulu
or UTC, whichever you prefer.

This is the fourth annual posting of ten articles I prepared between 1991
and 1994.  I thought we may have some new people on the WWII Discussion
List this year so I decided to post them again.  The ten articles cover
the following subjects:

1. What was the attitude of U.S. Army's commanders in Hawaii?
2. The Opana Radar Station--what they saw and what happened to the data.
3. Where were the U.S. aircraft carriers?
4. Aviation units in the Territory of Hawaii including their aircraft and
   status.
5. The B-17 flight that arrived over Territory of Hawaii during the Japanese
   attack.
6. U.S. Navy and U.S. Coast Guard ships in Oahu Island.
7. The B-24 spy mission that has remained relatively unknown.
8. Combat units of the U.S. Army worldwide.
9. Combat units of the U.S. Army Air Forces (USAAF) worldwide.
10. Aviation units of the U.S. Marine Corps worldwide.

I hope you enjoy them and I solicit any additions, corrections, etc.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

07/0216Z DEC

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:17:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: 7 DEC 41: Army attitudes in Hawaii

Last week, I sent out e-mail stating that Admiral Kimmel, Commander of the
Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, had traveled from San Francisco to Honolulu
to assume command of the fleet and had neglected to read a briefing book
that had been furnished. Someone challenged me on this and I must report
that my message was false; it was not Admiral Kimmel but Lieutenant General
Walter C. Short, Commanding General of the Army's Hawaiian Department. My
source is PEARL HARBOR FINAL JUDGEMENT by Henry C. Clausen and Bruce Lee
published by Crown Publishers, Inc in 1992 (ISBN 0-517-58644-4). I do not
remember a discussion of this book on the list so as an introduction, this
is from the dust cover:

"In 1944, Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson, knowing that high-ranking
members of the military had testified falsely before the various bodies
investigating Pearl Harbor, selected a lowly major and young lawyer named
Henry C. Clausen and gave him extraordinary authority to go anywhere and
question anyone under oath, from enlisted personnel right up to Chief of
Staff George C. Marshall. To this day, no member of the public knows the
full story of Clausen's investigation. Over seven months during 1944 and
1945, Clausen traveled more than 55,000 miles (88,512 km) to interview and
obtain sworn affidavits from nearly one hundred Army, Navy, civilian, and
British personnel. Many of these people never testified before any other
inquiry, including Congress. Clausen wore a self-destructing case
containing ultrasecret decoded Japanese messages that forced witnesses to
tell the truth and opened files that revealed a massive, inconceivable
failure to exploit the priceless intelligence obtained by the United States
in the months prior to Pearl Harbor.

"Clausen presented an 800-page report to Secretary of War Stimson - but
because his report was Top Secret, he did not write a conclusion. That
conclusion, and in fact Clausen's entire Top Secret report, would have torn
apart the government of the United States and revealed the breathtaking
secret capability of the Allies to crack Japanese and German codes. Henry
Clausen is the last major living witness, the one person who can reveal,
fifty years afterward, the real truth about Pearl Harbor.

"His 'final judgement' puts an end to all the conspiracy theories
mistakenly based on perjured testimony and self-serving misinformation that
continue to pollute the historical record.

"Henry C. Clausen lives and practices law in San Francisco.

"Bruce Lee, who lives in New York City, has been editor-researcher for
Cornelius Ryan, the editor of Gordon Prange and Admiral Layton, and is
regarded as a major figure in military history."

Clausen states that he took an affidavit from Major General Charles D.
Herron who had commanded the Hawaiian Department from October 1937 until
relieved by General Short on 7 February 1941.  One of the problems in the
transfer of command was that Herron was scheduled to depart on the same
ship that brought Short and his wife to Hawaii and that gave Herron less
than 2-1/2 days to brief Short.  To make it easier for Short, Herron had his
staff prepare a briefing book that was sent to San Francisco thereby
allowing Short time to become familiar with the command.  "Upon my meeting
Short when he arrived," said Herron, "I asked him whether he had read the
papers and material.  He replied that ....he had not given them much time
while en route."  Short stated that he read a novel, OLIVER WISWELL, during
the trip.

According to Herron, he did what he could in the limited time available
including giving Short a briefing on the staff officers.  According to
Herron, "I told him of my estimate as to the efficiency of the staff
officers and, with respect to G-2 (Intelligence), that Colonel George W.
Bicknell, a Reserve Officer, was an experienced and qualified, efficient
man for that position, and that it had been my intention to make him my G-2.
I further told him of the G-2 work being done, of the liaison with the Navy,
the FBI, and related sources of information, of the defense plans [for Pearl
Harbor], of my experience with the ALL-OUT alert of 1940...."  Bicknell had
been involved in intelligence as far back as World War I.

One of the reasons given for the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor was that
the military was afraid of scaring the civil population by holding an
ALL-OUT alert.  Yet on 17 June 1940, the War Department had ordered a trial
alert as an exercise based on war games that had shown that the best way
for an unknown enemy to devastate the fleet in Pearl Harbor would be a
surprise aerial attack.  The actual order for the alert from Washington had
read:

"Immediately alert complete defensive organization to deal with possible
trans-Pacific raid, to the greatest extent possible without creating public
hysteria or provoking undue curiosity of newspapers or alien agents.
Suggest maneuver basis.  Maintain alert until further orders.  Instructions
for secret communications direct with Chief of Staff will be furnished you
shortly.  Acknowledge."

Herron had conducted the maneuvers successfully and the civilian population
had been unconcerned.

Herron reiterated to Clausen his statement that he had briefed Short about
"the relations and cooperation which had existed with the Navy, of the
civilian population, of the Japanese situation, of the assumption that
alien agents conducted for the Japanese government."  Herron also took
Short on a tour around Oahu, showed Short the Army installations and "gave
him my ideas of possible attack and defense of that island."

Then Herron stated, "Following my talks with General Short at the time, he
did not ever ask my opinion, or for information, or correspond with me on
the subject of command or related problems."

Another incident involving Short was the rewriting the Standard Operating
Procedure (SOP) involving alerts.  In the SOP dated 14 Jul 1941, Number 1
alert was the highest alert and Number 3 the lowest.  This is the SOP that
was on file in Washington.  On 5 November 1941, Short and/or his staff
rewrote the SOP reversing the numbers, i.e., Number 1 alert was the lowest
and Number 3 the highest; this revised SOP was never sent to Washington.
Clausen asked Herron if this was a normal procedure; Herron responded,
"The Commander may and should take whatever action he believes dictated by
necessity, but must so report to the War Department at the earliest possible
moment."  When the War Department sent a war warning to Hawaii on 27
November 1941, Short had ordered his Alert Number 1. Washington thought that
this was the maximum effort but under Short's new SOP this was a minimum
alert.

According to Clausen, Herron further stated, off the record, that he did
not feel that Short was up to the job.  Herron stated that Short, a
specialist in training troops, was in the last post of his career and did
not want the Hawaiian command; he thought it beneath him.  Short was
supported in this by his wife who believed that after spending all those
years as an Army wife, she deserved better than to be taken away from her
friends and relatives and isolated in a distant post in Hawaii.  Both
General and Mrs. Short had been hoping for a post in Washington or at the
Presidio in San Francisco.

Herron went on to say that after he reported to his new post in Washington,
he received reports that Short was very nonchalant about his duties in
Hawaii.  Supposedly, Short's wife would call him frequently and complain
vehemently about life in general and he would leave to go home and calm her
down regardless of what he was working on.

Another thing that bothered Herron was that Short promoted Colonel Kendall
J. Fielder to be his G-2.  Herron's G-2 was Colonel Bicknell who had
established excellent relations with the Navy, FBI, FCC monitoring
station, the British, etc. whereas Fielder was inexperienced with
intelligence matters.  Clausen states that there two reasons for this move.
Bicknell was a Reserve Officer recently recalled to active duty, a
rough-tough man who was more like a cop.  Fielder was a West Point graduate,
smooth, polished, urbane, a 10-handicap golfer and a good dancer.  Whenever
Short was busy, someone had to accompany Mrs. Short to social events; that
someone was Colonel Fielder.  Such was Army life in 1941.

In Jul 1941, Colonel H.S. Burwell, Air Corps, had completed a special
investigation of the Hawaiian Department and reported many deficiencies in
the command; one of the major issues was the mind-set of both the Hawaiian
Department and Hawaiian Air Force.  Among other things, the report stated:

  1. The Air Force staffs were unable to understand the immediate need for
steps to prevent sabotage, but a "considerable portion of the Command"
failed to comprehend the realities of modern warfare.  As Burwell put it:
"[They] do not see the mental picture of the interplay of relations now
existing between intercontinental theatres of war and our local sphere of
action."

  2. The Hawaiian command was not alert to the possibility that the
American Forces in Hawaii might have to react quickly in the event of a
surprise enemy attack.  This was especially true in the event of "an abrupt
conflict with Japan."

  3. The causes for these failures were those of the ingrained habits of
peacetime.  There was a carefree sense of "no worry" that was created by
the isolation of a tropical island with a large force of troops stationed
on it.  This meant that operations and supply functions received priority
attention from Short's staff, and there was "relative inattention accorded
in peacetime to intelligence functions."

  4. The troops had lost their "aggressive initiative."  The posture of the
command was one of a purely defensive attitude.  Nor was there any evidence
by which Burwell could ascertain that the command itself had any "critical
concern for the future."

  5. In other words, Burwell's inspection report said that Short's command
was lazy and ill prepared for the outbreak of a war that everyone believed
was coming.  Worse, nothing was being done to change the situation.  The
Army's Hawaiian command was a perpetual happy hour.

After I sent this out originally, John Ausland responded that his father
had passed through Hawaii on his way to China in 1941 and his father
thought that "there were too many Saturday nights" in the Hawaiian
Department.

I would appreciate any other comments from people who are familiar with
this subject and/or this book.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

07/0217Z DEC

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:18:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: 7 DEC 41: The Opana Radar Station

This post describes the radar facilities on Oahu, specifically the Opana
Radar Station, during the early hours of 7 Dec 41.  All times specified are
local Hawaiian time.

The U.S. Army was responsible for defending all military installations in
Hawaii against aerial attack.  The Signal Corps had planned an aircraft
warning service consisting of an Information Center at Fort Shafter and nine
radar stations, three fixed and six mobile.  By 7 Dec 41, the six mobile
stations were in operation but the towers for the three fixed station were on
the dock at Oakland, California.

To save money, manpower, and wear and tear, the six mobile radar stations
only operated during the following hours:

  Sunday: 0400-0700
  Monday thru Friday: 0700-1100 and 1200-1600
  Saturday: 0700-1100

The Information Center at Fort Shafter consisted of a plotting board where
plotters marked the position of aircraft up on radar or by coast watchers.
The plotters had no way of distinguishing friend from foe.  Two officers were
also on duty, a controller and a pursuit officer.  The pursuit officer was
"to assist the Controller in ordering planes to intercept enemy planes or
supposed enemy planes, after the planes got in the air."

The best of the mobile radar stations was the Opana Mobile Radar Station
which was located 230 feet (70 meters) above sea level near Kahuku Point on
the northern tip of Oahu.  The site consisted of a few tents and two
equipment trailers.  The radar set itself had a range of approximately 130
miles (209 km).

At 0400 hours on Sunday, 7 Dec 41, Privates Joseph L Lockard and George E
Elliott went on duty.  Lockard was the more experienced of the two and began
instructing Elliott in the use of the equipment.  At 0700 hours, Lockard began
shutting the radar unit down but because the truck taking them to breakfast
was late, Elliott convinced Lockard to leave the radar system on for
additional training.  At 0702 hours, they picked up more than 50 aircraft
bearing 005 degrees at 132 miles (212 km).  After checking the radar to
ensure that it was functioning correctly, Private Elliott called the
Information Center to report.  The conversation lasted seven or eight
minutes during which time the target moved 20-25 miles (32-40 km) closer to
Oahu.

Since the Information Center was located on an Army post, the plotters and
Controller did not have to wait for a vehicle to take them to breakfast.
Therefore, the center was closed promptly at 0700 hours and by the time
Elliott called, there were only two people left, the switchboard operator
and the Pursuit Officer.  Strangely, the tour of duty for the Pursuit Officer
lasted until 0800 hours.  The Pursuit Officer that morning was Lieutenant
Kermit A Tyler, a fighter pilot in the 78th Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor)
at Wheeler Field.  Tyler's first experience with the Information Center was
on 3 Dec, four days earlier.  It never occurred to him that this incoming
flight could be enemy aircraft.  He almost immediately remembered that a
flight of 12 Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress' were enroute from California and
due to arrive about an hour later.  When plotted at the Opana Radar Site,
the B-17s would bear 010 degrees, 5 degrees east of the bearing of the
Japanese aircraft.  Tyler told Elliott that his target was the B-17 flight
at approximately 0720 hours when the target was at 74 miles (119 km), bearing
003 degrees.  Lockard and Elliott continued to track the target until 0739
hours when ground clutter interfered.  At that time, the target was at 20
miles (32 km) bearing 041 degrees.

Lockard and Elliott made one big mistake.  They neglected to tell Lieutenant
Tyler that the sighing consisted of more than 50 aircraft.  If they had,
perhaps Tyler would not have confused the blips with a flight of 12 B-17s.
Then again, this is one of the great "What If" discussions of the war.

The Opana Radar Station continued operating during the morning and tracked
the Japanese aircraft when they headed north back to their carriers.  The
Information Center at Fort Shafter recorded these reports at 1027 and 1029
hours.  However, the high command had convinced themselves that the Japanese
carriers lay in a southerly direction and the radar reports were ignored.
This is another "What If" discussion.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

07/0218Z DEC

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:18:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: 7 DEC 41: Where were the aircraft carriers?\

On 7 December 1941, the U.S. Navy had seven Aircraft Carriers (CVs) and one
Aircraft Escort Vessel (AVG) in commission. The CVs were considered warships;
the AVG was considered an auxiliary vessel. In addition to these eight ships,
the keels of five other CVs had been laid.

The names, history, status and aviation units of each of these ships is
described below.


USS LEXINGTON, Aircraft Carrier Number 2 (CV-2)
-----------------------------------------------
The keel of this ship was laid down at the Fore River Shipbuilding Co.,
Quincy, Massachusetts on 8 Jan 21 as Constitution, Battle Cruiser, First Line
Number 1 (CC-1). Because of the limitations defined in the Washington Naval
Treaty signed in 1922, she was authorized to be completed as an aircraft
carrier on 1 Jul 22 and was renamed Lexington. The Lexington was launched on
3 Oct 25 and commissioned 14 Dec 27.

On 7 Dec 41, the Lexington Air Group was composed of:

  Bombing Squadron Two (VB-2) with 15 Douglas SBD-2 Dauntless'
  Fighting Squadron Two (VF-2) with 16 Brewster F2A-3 Buffalo's
  Scouting Squadron Two (VS-2) with 1 Douglas SBD-2 and 14 SBD-3 Dauntless'
  Torpedo Squadron Two (VT-2) with 12 Douglas TBD-1 Devastator's

In order to augment the air defenses for Midway Island, USS Lexington
departed Pearl Harbor on 5 Dec with 18 Vought SB2U-3 Vindicators of Marine
Scout- or  Dive-Bomber Squadron Two Thirty One (VMSB-231) aboard.  Along with
the heavy cruisers USS Chicago (CA-29), USS Portland (CA-33) and USS Astoria
(CA-34) and five destroyers, the Lexington formed Task Force 12.  The plan
was to approach within 400 miles (640 km) of Midway and fly the Marine
squadron off to land on the island; Lexington would then be free to continue
training/scouting.  This position would have been reached by mid-morning of
7 Dec.  Upon learning of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, the Lexington
launched search planes to hunt for the Japanese fleet, and at midmorning
headed south to rendezvous with USS Indianapolis (CA-35) and USS Enterprise
(CV-6) task forces to conduct a search SOUTHWEST of Oahu until returning to
Pearl Harbor on 13 Dec.                ^^^^^^^^^

USS Lexington was sunk by aerial bombs and torpedoes during the Battle of
the Coral Sea, 8 May 42.  Her name was struck from the Naval Register on 24
Jun 42.


USS SARATOGA, Aircraft Carrier Number 3 (CV-3)
----------------------------------------------
The Saratoga was a sister ship of the Lexington and her keel was originally
laid down as a Battle Cruiser, First Line Number 3 (CC-3) on 25 Sep 20 at
the New York Shipbuilding Corp., Camden, New Jersey. She  was ordered
converted to an aircraft carrier and reclassified CV-3 on 1 Jul 22; Saratoga
was launched on 7 Apr 25 and commissioned on 16 Nov 27.

On 7 Dec 41, USS Saratoga was just entering San Diego after an interim
drydocking at Bremerton, Washington. The Saratoga Air Group consisted of:

  Bombing Squadron Three (VB-3) with 21 Douglas SBD-3 Dauntless'
  Fighting Squadron Three (VF-3) with 7 Grumman F4F-3 and 2 F4F-3A Wildcats
  Scouting Squadron Three (VS-3) with 22 Douglas SBD-3 Dauntless'
  Torpedo Squadron Three (VT-3) with 12 Douglas TBD-1 Devastators

USS Saratoga survived World War II and was used as a test ship at the
Bikini A-bomb tests in Jul 46. She sank in Bikini Atoll on 25 Jul 46 and
her name was struck from the Naval Register on 15 Aug 46.

USS RANGER, Aircraft Carrier Number 4 (CV-4)
--------------------------------------------
The Ranger was the first U.S. Navy ship to be designed and built from the
keel up as an aircraft carrier.  Her keel was laid at the Newport News
Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Co, Newport News, Virginia on 26 Sep 31; she was
launched on 25 Feb 33 and commissioned on 4 Jun 34.

USS Ranger was returning to Norfolk, Virginia from an ocean patrol extending
to Port-of-Spain, Trinidad, British West Indies when the Japanese attacked
Pearl Harbor.  At that time, the Ranger Air Group consisted of:

  Fighting Squadron Five (VF-5) with 18 Grumman F4F-3 and 1 F4F-3A Wildcats
  Fighting Squadron Forty One (VF-41) with 17 Grumman F4F-3 Wildcats and 2
    North American SNJ-3 Texans
  Scouting Squadron Forty One (VS-41) with 8 Vought SB2U-1 and 2 SB2U-2
    Vindicators
  Scouting Squadron Forty Two (VS-42) with 9 Vought SB2U-1 and 6 SB2U-2
    Vindicators
  Torpedo Squadron Four (VT-4) with 3 Douglas TBD-1 Devastators

Speed was sacrificed for other essentials under the Washington Naval Treaty
reducing the efficiency of the Ranger as a fleet carrier. She spent the war
in the Atlantic until 1944 and then was used as a training carrier. She was
decommissioned 18 Oct 46; her name was struck from the Naval Register on 29
Oct 46; and she was sold for scrap 28 Jan 47.


USS YORKTOWN, Aircraft Carrier Number 5 (CV-5)
----------------------------------------------
The keel of the Yorktown was laid down on at the Newport News Shipbuilding
and Dry Dock Co., Newport News, Virginia on 21 May 34, she was launched on
4 Apr 36 and commissioned on 30 Sep 37.

USS Yorktown was at Norfolk, Virginia on 7 Dec 41. The Yorktown Air Group
consisted of:

  Bombing Squadron Five (VB-5) with 19 Douglas SBD-3 Dauntless'
  Fighting Squadron Forty Two (VF-42) with 18 Grumman F4F-3 Wildcats
  Scouting Squadron Five (VS-5) with 19 Douglas SBD-3 Dauntless' and 2
    North American SNJ-3 Texans
  Torpedo Squadron Five (VT-5) with 14 Douglas TBD-1 Devastators

USS Yorktown was sunk by aerial bombs and torpedoes during the Battle of
Midway, 7 Jun 42. Her name was struck from the Naval Register on 2 Oct 42.

USS ENTERPRISE, Aircraft Carrier Number 6 (CV-6)
------------------------------------------------
The Enterprise was a sister ship of the Yorktown.  Her keel was laid at the
Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Co., Newport News, Virginia on 16
Jul 34, she was launched 3 Oct 36 and commissioned 12 May 38.

USS Enterprise departed Pearl Harbor on 28 Nov 41 on a mission to deliver 12
Grumman F4F-3 Wildcats of Marine Fighting Squadron Two Eleven (VMF-211) to
Wake Island.  The Enterprise, with the accompanying three heavy cruisers and
nine destroyers, comprised Task Force 8 (TF 8).  The Marine fighters were
launched on 2 Dec when the Enterprise was 75 miles (120 km) north of Wake
Island.  She then turned east and headed back to Pearl Harbor where she was
due to arrive on 6 Dec.  Due to a storm, Vice Admiral William Halsey,
commander of TF 8 in Enterprise, ordered reduced speed thus delaying the
carrier's arrival at Pearl Harbor until 7 Dec.

On 7 Dec 41, the Enterprise Air Group consisted of:

  Bombing Squadron Six (VB-6) with 17 Douglas SBD-2 Dauntless'
  Fighting Squadron Six (VF-6) with 16 Grumman F4F-3A Wildcats
  Scouting Squadron Six (VS-6) with 10 Douglas SBD-2 and 8 SBD-3 Dauntless'
  Torpedo Squadron Six (VT-6) with 18 Douglas TBD-1 Devastators and 2 North
    American SNJ-3 Texans

At 0618 hours on 7 Dec 41, Enterprise launched SBDs of VB-6 and VS-6 to
search a sector 045 to 134 degrees for a distance of 150 miles (240 km) and
to then proceed to NAS Pearl Harbor on Ford Island.  A total of 18 aircraft
arrived over Pearl Harbor during the Japanese attack.  One was shot down by
U.S. antiaircraft fire, four by the Japanese and one crash-landed.  The
remainder landed at either NAS Ewa or NAS Pearl Harbor.

The Enterprise survived World War II and was decommissioned on 17 Feb 47.
She was reclassified Attack Aircraft Carrier No. 6 (CVA-6) on 1 Oct 52 and
Antisubmarine Warfare Support Carrier No. 6 (CVS-6) on 8 Aug 53. Her name
was struck from the Naval Register on 2 Oct 56 and her hull was sold for
scrapping on 1 Jul 58.

USS WASP, Aircraft Carrier Number 7 (CV-7)
------------------------------------------
The Wasp was built at Bethlehem Shipbuilding Corp, Quincy, Massachusetts.
Her keel was laid down on 1 Apr 36; she was launched 4 Apr 39; and
commissioned on 25 Apr 40.  USS Wasp was at anchor in Grassy Bay, Bermuda
on 7 Dec 41. The Wasp Air Group consisted of:

  Fighting Squadron Seventy One (VF-71) with 18 Grumman F4F-3 Wildcats
  Fighting Squadron Seventy Two (VF-72) with 17 Grumman F4F-3 Wildcats, 2
    Vought SB2U-2 Vindicators and 1 North American SNJ-3 Texan
  Scouting Squadron Seventy One (VS-71) with 4 Vought SB2U-1 and 13 SB2U-2
    Vindicators and 2 Douglas TBD-1 Devastators
  Scouting Squadron Seventy Two (VS-72) with 18 Vought SB2U-3 Vindicators

USS Wasp was hit by two torpedoes fired from the Japanese submarine I-19 on
15 Sep 42 while operating off Guadalcanal Island in the Solomon Islands.
The flaming hull was torpedoed and sunk by the U.S. destroyer USS Landsdowne
later that day. Her name was struck from the Naval Register on 2 Nov 42.

USS HORNET, Aircraft Carrier Number 8 (CV-8)
--------------------------------------------
The Hornet was built at Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Co, Newport
News, Virginia.  Her keel was laid on 25 Sep 39; she was launched 14 Dec 40;
and commissioned 20 Oct 41.  Based at Norfolk, Virginia, USS Hornet was
undergoing training cruises during Dec 41.  The Hornet Air Group consisted
of:

  Bombing Squadron Eight (VB-8) with 19 Curtiss SBC-4 Helldivers
  Fighting Squadron Eight (VF-8) with 19 Grumman F4F-3 and 2 F4F-3A Wildcats
  Scouting Squadron Eight (VS-8) with 20 Curtiss SBC-4 Helldivers
  Torpedo Squadron Eight (VT-8) with 8 Douglas TBD-1 Devastators and 7
    Naval Aircraft Factory SBN-1s

The SBC-4 Helldivers operated by VB-8 and VS-8 were biplanes with a maximum
speed of 237 mph (379 km/h).

USS Hornet was sunk by torpedoes and bombs off Santa Cruz Island on 26 Oct
42.  Her name was struck from the Naval Register on 13 Jan 43.

USS LONG ISLAND, Aircraft Escort Vessel Number 1 (AVG-1)
--------------------------------------------------------
Long Island was built at Sun Shipbuilding & Dry Dock Co., Chester,
Pennsylvania.  Her keel was laid 7 Jul 39 as the merchant vessel SS
Mormacmail.  Launched on 11 Jan 40, she was acquired by the US Navy on 6 Mar
41.  Converted to an AVG at the Newport News Shipbuilding & Dry Dock Co,
Newport News, Virginia, she was commissioned USS Long Island, AVG-1, the
first Jeep Carrier, on 2 Jun 41.

USS Long Island was based at Norfolk, Virginia on 7 Dec 41. Aboard was
Scouting Squadron Two Hundred One (VS-201) with 12 Curtiss SOC-3A and 1
SOC-1A Seagulls and 7 Brewster F2A-3 Buffalo's.

USS Long Island survived World War II.  She was reclassified Auxiliary
Aircraft Carrier No. 1 (ACV-1) on 20 Aug 42 and Escort Aircraft Carrier No.
1 (CVE-1) on 15 Jul 43.  Decommissioned 26 Mar 46, her name was struck from
the Naval Register on 12 Apr 46 and she was sold on 24 Apr 47.  Her new
owners converted her back to a merchant ship and she sailed in that
configuration for a number of years.



In addition to the eight commissioned vessels listed above, the keels of
five Essex Class carriers had been laid down. These five ships, all of
which survived World War II,  were:


ESSEX, Aircraft Carrier Number 9 (CV-9)
---------------------------------------
Essex was under construction at the Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry Dock
Co., Newport News, Virginia.  Her keel had been laid on 28 Apr 41.

Essex was launched on 31 Jul 42 and commissioned 31 Dec 42.  She
decommissioned 9 Jan 47 and recommissioned 15 Jan 51.  Reclassified Attack
Aircraft Carrier 9 (CVA-9) on 1 Oct 52 and Antisubmarine Warfare Support
Carrier 9 (CVS-9) on 8 Mar 60, USS Essex decommissioned for the last time
on 30 Jun 69.  Her name was struck from the Naval Register on 15 Jun 75
and she was sold for scrap.


BON HOMME RICHARD, Aircraft Carrier Number 10 (CV-10)
-----------------------------------------------------
Bon Homme Richard was under construction at the Newport News Shipbuilding
and Dry Dock Co., Newport News, Virginia.  Her keel had been laid on 1 Dec
41.

Bon Homme Richard was renamed Yorktown on 26 Sep 42 to commemorate USS
Yorktown (CV-5) (see above).  Yorktown was launched 21 Jan 43 and
commissioned 15 Apr 43.  She was decommissioned 9 Jan 47 and reclassified
Attack Aircraft Carrier 10 (CVA-10) on 1 Oct 52.  Recommissioned in Feb 53,
she was reclassified Antisubmarine Warfare Support Carrier 10 (CVS-10) on 1
Sep 57.  USS Yorktown decommissioned for the last time on  30 Jun 70 and her
name was struck from the Naval Register on 1 Jun 73.  Yorktown is currently
a memorial at Patriots Point, South Carolina.


INTREPID, Aircraft Carrier Number 11 (CV-11)
--------------------------------------------
Intrepid was under construction at the Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry
Dock Co., Newport News, Virginia.  Her keel had been laid on 1 Dec 41.

Launched 26 Apr 43 and commissioned 16 Aug 43, Intrepid was decommissioned
on 22 Mar 47.  Recommissioned 9 Feb 42, she was reclassified Attack Aircraft
Carrier 11 (CVA-11) on 1 Oct 52 and Antisubmarine Warfare Support Carrier 11
(CVS-11) on 8 Dec 61.  USS Intrepid decommissioned for the last time on 15
Mar 74 and her name was subsequently struck from the Naval Register.
Intrepid is currently a museum in New York City.


CABOT, Aircraft Carrier Number 16 (CV-16)
-----------------------------------------
Cabot was under construction at the Bethlehem Steel Co, Quincy, Massachusetts.
Her keel had been laid on 15 Jul 41.

Cabot was renamed Lexington on 16 Jun 42 to commemorate USS Lexington (CV-2)
(see above).  Launched 26 Sep 42 and commissioned 17 Feb 43, Lexington was
decommissioned on 14 Apr 47 and reclassified Attack Aircraft Carrier No. 16
(CVA-16) on 1 Oct 52.  Recommissioned 15 Aug 55, she was reclassified
Antisubmarine Warfare Support Carrier No.  16 (CVS-16) on 1 Oct 62;
Training Aircraft Carrier No.  16 (CVT-16) on 1 Jan 69; and Auxiliary
Aircraft Landing Training Ship No.  16 (AVT-16) on 1 Jul 78.  Lexington
was decommissioned 8 Nov 91, struck and is now a museum at Corpus Christi,
Texas.


BUNKER HILL, Aircraft Carrier Number 17 (CV-17)
-----------------------------------------------
Bunker Hill was under construction at the Bethlehem Steel Co., Quincy,
Massachusetts.  Her keel had been laid on 15 Sep 41.

Bunker Hill was launched 7 Dec 42 and commissioned 25 May 43.
Decommissioned 9 Jul 47, she was reclassified Attack Aircraft Carrier No. 17
(CVA-17) on 1 Oct 52; Antisubmarine Warfare Support Carrier No. 17 (CVS-17)
on 8 Aug 53; and Auxiliary Aircraft Transport No. 9 (AVT-9) on 15 May 59.
Her name was struck from the Naval Register on 1 Nov 66 but she was retained
as a moored electronics ship in San Diego until being sold for scrapping in
Nov 73.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

07/0219Z DEC

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:19:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: 7 DEC 41: Aviation units in Hawaii

In December 1941, President Franklin D.  Roosevelt appointed Supreme Court
Associate Justice Owen J. Roberts to head a commission to investigate the
Pearl Harbor disaster.  The information in this post was obtained from the
"Proceedings Of Roberts Commission" which I found in the Library of
Congress several years ago.

On 7 Dec 41, the U.S. military had a total of 386 aircraft in the Hawaiian
Islands of which about half could be considered combat effective.  Of the
386 total, only seven (Navy Consolidated PBY Catalinas) were airborne when
the Japanese attacked and all seven were patrolling to the SOUTHWEST of
Hawaii; the Japanese approached from the NORTH and caught our aircraft on
the ground.

This post identifies the aviation units of the three service branches, their
stations, the aircraft they operated and the status of the aircraft.  This
file is divided into three parts representing the U.S. Army Air Forces
(USAAF), the U.S. Marine Corps (USMC) and the U.S. Navy (USN).

U.S. ARMY AIR FORCES (USAAF)
----------------------------

All U.S. Army units in Hawaii were under the command of the Army's Hawaiian
Department, Lieutenant General Walter C. Short commanding.  The USAAF
subordinate unit was the Hawaiian Air Force, Major General Frederick L.
Martin, commanding.  The three main bases of the Hawaiian Air Force were
located on the island of Oahu, i.e.:

  1.  Bellows Field located on the east coast of Oahu near the town of
Waimanalo.  This was the smallest of the three bases.
  2.  Hickam Field located between Pearl Harbor and Honolulu.  This was the
main bomber base of the Hawaiian Air Force.
  3.  Wheeler Field located next to Schofield Barracks was the main pursuit
(fighter) base of the Hawaiian Air Force.

The Hawaiian Air Force also had an auxiliary strip at Haliewa on the
northwest coast of Oahu.  The strip was 1200 feet (366 m) long and was
"home" for a few pursuit aircraft.

The organization and aircraft of the Hawaiian Air Force on 7 Dec 41 are
listed below sorted by type of aircraft.

THE BOMBERS

The Hawaiian Air Force bombers were assigned to the 18th Bombardment Wing
at Hickam Field.  The total strength was 45 aircraft, 33 Douglas B-18 Bolos
and 12 Boeing B-17D Flying Fortress'.  The organization of the 18th
Bombardment Wing was:

18th Bombardment Wing, Hickam Field
   5th Bombardment Group (Heavy), Hickam Field
    23d  Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), Hickam Field
    31st Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), Hickam Field
    72d  Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), Hickam Field
  11th Bombardment Group (Heavy), Hickam Field
    26th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), Hickam Field
    42d  Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), Hickam Field
   4th Reconnaissance Squadron (Heavy), Hickam Field
  50th Reconnaissance Squadron (Heavy), Hickam Field

THE FIGHTERS

Fighter aircraft and units were known as pursuit aircraft and wings/groups/
squadrons in those days; pursuit units would become fighter units on 15 May
42; pursuit aircraft became fighter aircraft n 1947.

Detailed records exist in the Roberts Commission Report identifying the
pursuit (fighter) aircraft at Wheeler Field by serial number, unit and
status, i.e., in or out of commission or surveyed (junked).  The reason for
an aircraft being out of commission is also indicated.  The reason falls
into one of four categories, i.e.:

  1.  First echelon (squadron) maintenance,
  2.  Second echelon (base engineering) maintenance,
  3.  Third echelon (air depot) maintenance, or
  4.  Lack of spare parts.

The organization and aircraft of the pursuit (fighter) units of the
Hawaiian Air Force were:

14th Pursuit Wing, Wheeler Field
  15th Pursuit Group, Wheeler
       2 Curtiss P-36A Hawks [1 out of comm-1st ech mtce, 1 surveyed]
       1 Grumman OA-9 Goose
    45th Pursuit Squadron (Fighter), Wheeler Field
      15 Curtiss P-36A Hawks [9 out of comm-1st echelon mtce]
       2 Martin B-12's
       2 Curtiss P-40B's
       1 Douglas BT-2BI [surveyed]
    46th Pursuit Squadron (Fighter), Wheeler Field
      21 Curtiss P-36A Hawks [8 out of comm-1st echelon mtce]
       5 Curtiss P-40B's [2 out of comm-1st echelon mtce]
       1 Curtiss A-12A
       1 Douglas BT-2BI [surveyed]
       1 Boeing P-26A Peashooter
    47th Pursuit Squadron (Fighter), Wheeler Field
      11 Curtiss P-40B's [7 out of comm-1st echelon mtce]
       2 Boeing P-26B Peashooters [1 out of comm-1st echelon mtce]
       2 Curtiss P-36A Hawks [1 out of comm-1st echelon mtce]
       2 Curtiss P-40C's [1 out of comm-1st echelon mtce]
       1 Martin B-12
    72d  Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor), Wheeler Field
      No aircraft assigned
  18th Pursuit Group (Interceptor), Wheeler Field
       2 North American AT-6s (1 out of comm-1st echelon mtce]
       2 Grumman OA-9 Gooses
     6th Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor), Wheeler Field
      16 Curtiss P-40B's [6 out of comm; 4 for 1st echelon mtce, 2 for parts]
       1 Boeing P-26A Peashooter
       1 Boeing P-26B Peashooter [out of comm-1st echelon mtce]
    19th Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor), Wheeler Field
      15 Curtiss P-40B's [4 out of comm-1st echelon mtce]
       3 Curtiss P-40C's [1 out of comm-1st echelon mtce]
    44th Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor), Wheeler Field
       9 Curtiss P-40B's [2 out of comm; 1 for 1st echelon mtce, 1 for parts]
       7 Curtiss P-40C's [1 out of comm-parts]
       2 Boeing P-26A Peashooters
       2 Boeing P-26B Peashooters [1 out of comm-1st echelon mtce]
    73d  Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor), Wheeler Field
      13 Curtiss P-40B's [4 out of comm; 2 for 1st echelon mtce, 1 for 2nd
           echelon mtce, 1 for parts]
       1 Boeing P-26B Peashooter
    78th Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor), Wheeler Field
      16 Curtiss P-40B's [7 out of comm; 6 for 1st echelon mtce, 1 for parts]
       3 Boeing P-26A Peashooters [1 out of comm-1st echelon mtce]


MISCELLANEOUS UNITS

Three additional flying squadrons were assigned to the Hawaiian Air Force
on that day.  They were:

  19th Transport Squadron, Hickam Field
     2 Douglas C-33's (Douglas DC-2-145s)
  58th Bombardment Squadron (Light), Hickam Field
    13 Douglas A-20A Havocs
  86th Observation Squadron, Bellows Field
     6 North American O-47B's
     2 Stinson O-49 Vigilant Vigilants


The tables below list the Hawaiian Air Force aircraft available on 7 Dec 41.
These aircraft are listed by basic mission type.  Under each type are the
total available before and after the attack, the number of combat effectives
(only the A-20A, B-17D, P-40B and P-40C could be considered combat effective)
and the number available before and after the attack.

Advanced Trainers (AT)
  Before Attack: 4
    North American AT-6 Texan: 4 assigned, 3 in commission
  After Attack: 3
    North American AT-6 Texan: 3 available, 2 in commission

Attack Aircraft (A)
  Combat Effectives
    Before attack: 12
      Douglas A-20A Havoc: 12 assigned, 5 in commission
    After attack: 10
      Douglas A-20A Havoc: 10 available, 5 in commission
  Other Aircraft
    Before attack: 2
      Douglas A-12A Shrike: 2 assigned, 2 in commission
    After attack: 2
      Douglas A-12A Shrike: 2 available, 1 in commission

Bomber Aircraft (B)
  Combat Effectives
    Before attack: 12
      Boeing B-17D Flying Fortress: 12 assigned, 6 in commission
    After attack: 8
      Boeing B-17D Flying Fortress: 8 available, 4 in commission
  Other Aircraft
    Before attack: 36
      Douglas B-18 Bolo: 33 assigned, 21 in commission
      Martin B-12A: 3 assigned, 1 in commission
    After attack: 24
      Douglas B-18 Bolo: 21 available, 11 in commission
      Martin B-12A: 3 available, 1 in commission

Observation Aircraft (O)
  Before attack: 9
    North American O-47B: 7 assigned, 5 in commission
    Stinson O-49 Vigilant: 2 assigned, both in commission
  After attack: 8
    North American O-47B: 7 available, 5 in commission
    Stinson O-49 Vigilant: 1 available and in commission

Observation Amphibian Aircraft (OA)
  Before attack: 4
    Grumman OA-9 Goose: 3 assigned, all in commission
    Sikorsky OA-8: 1 assigned and in commission
  After attack: 2
    Grumman OA-9 Goose: 1 available and in commission
    Sikorsky OA-8: 1 available and in commission

Pursuit Aircraft (P)
  Combat Effectives
    Before attack: 99
      Curtiss P-40B: 87 assigned, 55 in commission
      Curtiss P-40C: 12 assigned,  9 in commission
    After attack: 57
      Curtiss P-40B: 50 available, 25 in commission
      Curtiss P-40C:  7 available,  2 in commission
  Other aircraft
    Before attack: 53
      Curtiss P-36A Hawk: 39 assigned, 20 in commission
      Boeing P-26A Peashooter: 8 assigned, 7 in commission
      Boeing P-26B Peashooter: 6 assigned, 3 in commission
    After attack: 43
      Curtiss P-36A Hawk: 35 available, 16 in commission
      Boeing P-26A Peashooter: 3 available, 2 in commission
      Boeing P-26B Peashooter: 5 available, 2 in commission

SUMMARY

The Hawaiian Air Force had a total of 231 aircraft assigned on 7 Dec 41 but
only 123 (53%) could be considered combat effective.  About 61% of all
aircraft were in commission before the attack.  The Japanese destroyed 74
aircraft (32%) of which 48 were combat effectives.  After the attack, the
Hawaiian Air Force had a total of 79 aircraft in commission, 36 of which
could be considered combat effective.

None of the Hawaiian Air Force aircraft were loaded with bombs or ammunition
prior to the attack.  The Army's Hawaiian Department was obsessed with the
idea of sabotage by the 157,000 civilians of Japanese blood living in Hawaii.
In order to guard against sabotage, the Hawaiian Department had issued orders
pertaining to aircraft on the ground.  Under these orders, (1) all  aircraft
were to be neatly lined up to make it easier to guard them, (2) all bombs
were to be removed and stored, and (3) all guns were to be unloaded and the
live ammunition placed in hangars overnight.

The first Japanese attack occurred at 0755 local; the second attack began at
about 0840 local.  The area was not clear until about 1000.  The following is
the official Hawaiian Air Force log of aircraft takeoffs for 7 Dec 41:

  0830: 2 P-36A's and 4 P-40's
  0855: 2 P-40's
  0915: 6 P-36A's
  0930: 6 P-36A's and 5 P-40's
  0950: 1 O-47B
  1040: 3 O-47B's
  1127: 4 A-20A's
  1140: 2 B-17D's
  1200: 5 P-40's
  1300: 3 A-20A's
  1330: 2 B-18's
  1500: 11 P-40's and 3 O-47B's
  1520: 3 B-17D's

A total of 57 sorties for the whole day!


U.S. MARINE CORPS
-----------------

All Marine Corps aviation units in Hawaii were based at Naval Air Station
(NAS) Ewa, Oahu, located west of Honolulu and east of the present NAS
Barbers Point.  All USMC aviation units were assigned to Marine Aircraft
Group Twenty One (MAG-21) based at NAS Ewa.  The four operational squadrons
and the aircraft based at NAS Ewa were:

Marine Fighting Squadron 211 (VMF-211) (forward echelon on Wake Island)
  11 Grumman F4F-3 Wildcats (1 under minor overhaul)
   1 North American SNJ-3 Texan
Marine Scout- or Dive-Bomber Squadron 231 (VMSB-231) (forward echelon in USS
       Lexington)
   7 Vought SB2U-3 Vindicators
Marine Scout- or Dive-Bomber Squadron 232 (VMSB-232)
  19 Douglas SBD-1 Dauntless' (1 partially stripped, no engine)
   3 Douglas SBD-2 Dauntless'
Marine Utility Squadron 252 (VMJ-252)
   2 Douglas R3D-2's (1 in hangar at NAS Pearl Harbor)
   2 Grumman J2F-4 Ducks
   1 Douglas SBD-1 Dauntless
   1 Lockheed JO-2
   1 Sikorsky JRS-1
   1 Vought SB2U-3 Vindicator


The 49 Marine aircraft assigned to MAG-21 units at NAS Ewa were:

Fighter Aircraft (F): 11
  11 Grumman F4F-3 Wildcats
General Utility (J): 3
   2 Grumman J2F-4 Ducks
   1 Lockheed JO-2
Scout Bomber (SB): 31
  20 Douglas SBD-1 Dauntless'
   8 Vought SB2U-3 Vindicators
   3 Douglas SBD-2 Dauntless'
Scout Trainer (SN): 1
   1 North American SNJ-3 Texan
Transport (R): 2
   2 Douglas R3D-2's
Utility Transport (JR): 1
   1 Sikorsky JRS-1

Of the 48 aircraft on hand, 33 (69%) could be considered combat effective
(the F4F Wildcats and SBD Dauntless').  Like the Hawaiian Air Force, the
Marine aircraft were neatly line up on the ramp to enable the ground forces
to guard against sabotage.  During the attacks, the Japanese destroyed:

   9 of the 11 Grumman F4F-3 Wildcats
  18 of the 31 SBD-1, SBD-2 and SB2U-3 scout bomber aircraft
   6 of the 7 utility aircraft

U.S. NAVY AVIATION UNITS
------------------------
Naval aviation units operated from three Naval Air Stations (NASs) in the
Hawaiian Islands.  The three stations were:

  NAS Kaneohe on the island of Oahu
  NAS Pearl Harbor, on Ford Island, in Pearl Harbor
  NAS Puunene on the island of Maui


NAS KANEOHE

NAS Kaneohe, now Marine Corps Air Station Kaneohe Bay, is located on the
east coast of Oahu.  On 7 Dec 41, NAS Kaneohe was the home of the three
squadrons of Patrol Wing One (PatWing One).  Each of the three squadrons
operated 12 Consolidated PBY-5 Catalina seaplanes.  The three squadrons and
their aircraft status were:

  Patrol Squadron Eleven (VP-11): All 12 PBY-5's could be made ready for
    operations on four hours notice.
  Patrol Squadron Twelve (VP-12)
    6 PBY-5's were ready for operations on 10 minutes notice
    5 PBY-5's could be ready for operations on four hours notice
    1 PBY-5 was under repair
  Patrol Squadron Fourteen (VP-14)
    3 PBY-5's were in the air on patrol
    3 PBY-5's were ready for operations on 10 minutes notice
    4 PBY-5's could be ready for operations on four hours notice
    2 PBY-5's were under repair
  Base Hack: One Vought OS2U Kingfisher was warming up on the ramp when the
    Japanese attacked

  Summary: 36 PBY-5's were based at NAS Kaneohe
    21 could be ready for operations on four hours notice
     9 were ready for operations on 10 minutes notice
     3 were in the air
     3 were under repair

Of the 33 aircraft on the ground, four were moored in the bay at about
1,000 yards (914 m) apart, four were in Number 1 Hangar and the reamining 25
were parked on the ramp.  Of these 33 aircraft, 27 were destroyed and six
damaged during the Japanese attack.


NAS PEARL HARBOR

NAS Pearl Harbor was on Ford Island in the middle of Pearl Harbor and
served two functions; first, it was home for the four squadrons of Patrol
Wing Two (PatWing Two) and second, it was the home base for the carrier
based squadrons when the carriers were in port.  Generally, the carrier
based squadrons would fly off the carriers to NAS Pearl Harbor before the
carrier reached port; subsequently, the aircraft would fly back to the
carrier when the ship left port.  Because it served as a home for carrier
aircraft, there were seven spare carrier aircraft present during the
Japanese attack.  NAS Pearl Harbor was also the home of two utility
squadrons flying non-combatant utility aircraft.

The units at NAS Pearl Harbor and their aircraft on 7 Dec 41 were:

  Bombing Squadron Two (VB-2) in USS Lexington (CV-2)
    1 Douglas SBD-2 Dauntless
  Bombing Squadron Six (VB-6) in USS Enterprise (CV-6)
     1 Douglas SBD-2 Dauntless
  Fighting Squadron Two (VF-2) in USS Lexington (CV-2)
     3 Brewster F3A-3 Buffalos
  Fighting Squadron Three (VF-3) in USS Saratoga (CV-3)
     1 Grumman F4F-3 Wildcat
  Patrol Squadron Twenty One (VP-21) based on Midway Island
     1 Consolidated PBY-3 Catalina under repair
  Patrol Squadron Twenty Two (VP-22)
    14 Consolidated PBY-3 Catalinas (12 could be made ready on four hours
       notice; 2 under repair)
  Patrol Squadron Twenty Three (VP-23)
    12 Consolidated PBY-5 Catalinas (11 could be made ready on four hours
       notice; 1 under repair)
  Patrol Squadron Twenty Four (VP-24)
     6 Consolidated PBY-5 Catalinas (4 in the air; 1 ready on 30 minutes
       notice; 1 under repair)
  Scouting Squadron Two (VS-2) in USS Lexington (CV-2)
     1 Douglas SBD-2 Dauntless
  Utility Squadron One (VJ-1)
     9 Grumman J2F Ducks
     9 Sikorsky JRS
  Utility Squadron Two (VJ-2)
    10 Grumman J2F Ducks
     2 Consolidated PBY-1 Catalinas

Seventy aircraft were available at NAS Pearl Harbor divided into the
following categories:

  Fighter Aircraft (F): 4
     3 Brewster F3A-3 Buffalos
     1 Grumman F4F-3 Wildcat
  General Utility Aircraft (J): 19
    19 Grumman J2F Ducks
  Patrol Bombers (PB): 35
    18 Consolidated PBY-5 Catalinas
         11 could be made ready on four hours notice
          4 were in the air
          2 were under repair
          1 could be made ready on 30 minutes notice
    15 Consolidated PBY-3 Catalinas
         12 could be made ready on four hours notice
          3 were under repair
     2 Consolidated PBY-1 Catalinas (non-armed utility aircraft)
  Scout Bombers (SB): 3
     3 Douglas SBD-2 Dauntless'
  Utility Transports (JR): 9
     9 Sikorsky JRSs

After the Japanese attack, the only operational aircraft were 6 Grumman J2F
Ducks, a non-combatant utility aircraft.


NAS PUUNENE

NAS Puunene was located on the island of Maui and was not attacked by the
Japanese.  NAS Puunene was the home of Utility Squadron Three (VJ-3)
equipped with:

  4 Beech JRB Expeditors
  2 Douglas BT-1s
  1 Grumman JRF Goose
  1 Grumman J2F Duck

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

07/0220Z DEC

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:20:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: 7 DEC 41: The B-17 flight to Hawaii

On the morning of 7 Dec 41, 12 Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress's were
approaching Hawaii after a 14-hour flight from California.  This post
describes that flight.

During the Fall of 1941, the U.S. Army Air Forces attempted to beef up
it's aerial defense of the Philippines by dispatching the 19th Bombardment
Group (Heavy) with B-17's to the Philippines in Sep 41.  At that time, a
bombardment group consisted of three bombardment squadrons with a
reconnaissance squadron attached; the reconnaissance squadron normally
reported to the parent unit of the group, i.e., the wing or bomber command.

When the 19th left for the Philippines, it left one bombardment squadron
and it's reconnaissance squadron in the U.S.; both were to rejoin the
group at a later date.  Subsequently, the high command decided to send a
second bombardment group to the Philippines so in late Nov 41, the ground
echelon of the 7th Bombardment Group (Heavy) left Utah for the Philippines.
The air echelon of all units transferred to Muroc Army Air Base, Muroc,
California, to prepare their aircraft for the flight to Luzon.  The actual
flight would leave from Hamilton Field, San Rafael, California.

A little after 1700 hours local on 6 Dec 41, one B-17E and four B-17C's of
the 38th Reconnaissance Squadron (Heavy) and six B-17E's of the 88th
Reconnaissance Squadron (Heavy) took off from Hamilton Field on the first
leg of their flight to the Philippines.  The aircraft were in two flights;
the 38th was commanded by Major Truman H Landon while the 88th was
commanded by Major Richard H Carmichael.  In order to save fuel, the B-17's
had a skeleton crew consisting of pilot, copilot, navigator, engineer and
radioman.  They carried their bomb sights and machine guns but no
ammunition; the 2,400 mile (3,840 km) flight required all the gasoline the
aircraft could carry.  To increase balance, the armor plate normally in the
rear of the aircraft was moved forward.

At approximately 0810 hours on 7 Dec, the B-17's arrived over Oahu and ran
into the first-wave of the Japanese attackers and were shot at by both the
Americans and the Japanese.  Major Carmichael and Lieutenant Harold Chaffin
landed their B-17's on the 1200 foot (366 m) auxiliary strip at Haliewa on
the northwest coast of Oahu; this strip had been designed for fighter and
observation aircraft.  Captain Raymond T Swenson was landing his B-17C at
Hickam Field when a lucky shot by a Japanese Zeke pilot ignited the
magnesium flares in the rear of the B-17.  The tail of the Flying Fortress
was blazing when it touched down at Hickam Field.  The plane skidded to a
stop on its nose when the tail assembly fell off.  All of the crew escaped
except Lieutenant William R Schick, a flight surgeon, who was strafed as
he ran down the runway.

Lieutenant Frank Bostrom was attempting to land at Hickam Field but he gave
up when U.S. Navy gunners fired at him.  He retreated to a cloud and during
his second attempt to land at Hickam, Japanese fighters attacked and knocked
out two engines; he managed to land on the Kahuku Golf Course.  Major Landon
wanted to fly to the island of Hilo but was talked into trying for Hickam.
As he approached the field, the control tower advised him that he had three
Japanese fighters on his tail.  Landon made it along with Lieutenant Charles
Bergdoll who thought this was the most realistic drill he had ever seen.
Lieutenant Robert Richards' B-17C had been badly hit by Japanese fighters
and he had three of the crew wounded; he crashed landed on the short strip
at Bellows Field, the smallest of the regular bases on Oahu.

The entire B-17 affair lasted ten minutes.  By 0820 hours local, all
aircraft were on the ground.  Four of the twelve were destroyed.  The eight
B-17's never did make it to the Philippines; they were kept in Hawaii and
flew patrol missions over the Central Pacific.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

07/0220Z DEC

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:21:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: 7 DEC 41: USCG and USN ships in Hawaii

Everyone has heard of the battleship Arizona but there was a total of 145
US Coast Guard and US Naval vessels in Oahu Island, Territory of Hawaii on
7 Dec 41.  This post lists the names and designations of the 145 vessels
and the eventual fate of each vessel, where known.  (This list was compiled
from a various documents.)

Ships names prefaced with USCGC (US Coast Guard Cutter) or USS (United States
Ship) were commissioned ships; all others were in service.

I. WARSHIPS: 50
   A. BATTLESHIPS: 8
        USS Arizona, BB-39: sunk 7 Dec 41; national memorial at Pearl Harbor
        USS California, BB-44: sold for scrap 7-59
        USS Maryland, BB-46: sold for scrap 7-59
        USS Nevada, BB-36: sunk in weapons test 7-48
        USS Oklahoma, BB-37: capsized 7 Dec 41; raised 1943 but not repaired;
           parted tow line enroute San Francisco and sank 5-47
        USS Pennsylvania, BB-38: scuttled off Kwajalein 2-48
        USS Tennessee, BB-43: sold for scrap 7-59
        USS West Virginia, BB-48: sold for scrap 8-59
   B. HEAVY CRUISERS: 2
        USS New Orleans, CA-32: sold for scrap 9-59
        USS San Francisco, CA-38: sold for scrap 9-59
   C. LIGHT CRUISERS: 6
        USS Detroit, CL-8: sold for scrap 2-46
        USS Helena, CL-50: sunk in Kula Gulf, 7-43
        USS Honolulu, CL-48: sold for scrap 11-59
        USS Phoenix, CL-46: to Argentina 10-51; sunk during Falklands War
        USS Raleigh, CL-7: sold for scrap 2-46
        USS St. Louis, CL-49: to Brazil 1-51
   D. DESTROYERS: 30
        USS Allen, DD-66: sold for scrap 9-46
        USS Aylwin, DD-355: sold for scrap 12-46.
        USS Bagley, DD-386: sold for scrap 10-47
        USS Blue, DD-387: sunk off Guadalcanal 8-42
        USS Case, DD-370: sold for scrap 12-47
        USS Cassin, DD-372: sold for scrap 11-47
        USS Chew, DD-106: sold for scrap 10-46
        USS Conyngham, DD-371: sunk as target 7-48
        USS Cummings, DD-365: sold for scrap 7-47
        USS Dale, DD-353: sold for scrap 12-46
        USS Dewey, DD-349: sold for scrap 12-46
        USS Downes, DD-375: sold for scrap 11-47
        USS Farragut, DD-348: sold for scrap 8-47
        USS Helm, DD-388: sold for scrap 10-47
        USS Henley, DD-391: sunk in Huron Gulf 10-43
        USS Hull, DD-350: sunk by typhoon 12-44
        USS Jarvis, DD-393: sunk off Guadalcanal 8-42
        USS Macdonough, DD-351: sold for scrap 12-46
        USS Monaghan, DD-354: sunk by typhoon 12-44
        USS Mugford, DD-389: sunk off Kwajalein 3-48
        USS Patterson, DD-392: sold for scrap 8-47
        USS Phelps, DD-360: sold for scrap 8-47
        USS Ralph Talbot, DD-390: sunk as target 3-48
        USS Reid, DD-369: sunk off Leyte, PI 12-44
        USS Schley, DD-103: scrapped 1946
        USS Selfridge, DD-357: sold for scrap 11-46
        USS Shaw, DD-373: sold for scrap 1946
        USS Tucker, DD-374: sunk off Espiritu Santo 8-42
        USS Ward, DD-139: sunk off Leyte 12-44
        USS Worden, DD-352: sunk off Amchitka 1-43
   E. SUBMARINES: 4
        USS Cachalot, SS-170: sold for scrap 1-47
        USS Dolphin, SS-169: sold for scrap 8-46
        USS Narwhal, SS-167: sold for scrap 11-45
        USS Tautog, SS-199: sold for scrap 7-60

II. MINE WARFARE SHIPS: 23
   A. HIGH SPEED MINESWEEPERS: 4
        USS Perry, DMS-17: sunk off Palau Is 9-44
        USS Trever, DMS-16: sold for scrap 11-46
        USS Wasmuth, DMS-15: sunk off Aleutian Is 12-42
        USS Zane, DMS-14: sold for scrap 10-46
   B. LIGHT MINELAYERS: 8
        USS Breese, DM-18: sold for scrap 5-46
        USS Gamble, DM-15: scuttled off Guam 7-45
        USS Montgomery, DM-17: sold for scrap 3-46
        USS Preble, DM-20: sold for scrap 10-46
        USS Pruitt, DM-22: sold for scrap 1946
        USS Ramsay, DM-16: sold for scrap 11-46
        USS Sicard, DM-21: sold for scrap 6-46
        USS Tracy, DM-19: sold for scrap 1946
   C. MINELAYER: 1
        USS Oglala, CM-4: to Maritime Commission 7-46
   D. MINESWEEPERS: 6
        USS Bobolink, AM-20: sold 10-46
        USS Grebe, AM-43: destroyed by hurricane 1-43
        USS Rail, AM-26: to Maritime Commission 1-47
        USS Tern, AM-31: sold 7-47
        USS Turkey, AM-13: sold 12-46
        USS Vireo, AM-52: to Maritime Commission 2-47
   E. MINESWEEPERS, COASTAL: 4
        Cockatoo, AMc-8: to Maritime Commission 9-46
        Condor, AMc-14: to Maritime Commission 7-46
        Crossbill, AMc-9: to Maritime Commission 3-47
        Reedbird, AMc-30: to Maritime Commission 11-46

III. PATROL SHIPS: 13
   A. GUNBOAT: 1
        USS Sacramento, PG-19: sold 8-47
   B. MOTOR TORPEDO BOATS: 12
        PT-20: stricken for obsolescence, 12-44.
        PT-21: stricken for obsolescence, 10-43.
        PT-22: badly damaged in storm, 1-43; scrapped.
        PT-23: reclassified as small boat, 10-43.
        PT-24: reclassified as small boat, 12-44.
        PT-25: reclassified as small boat, 10-43.
        PT-26: reclassified as small boat, 10-43.
        PT-27: reclassified as small boat, 12-44.
        PT-28: wrecked in storm, 1-43.
        PT-29: stricken for obsolescence, 12-44.
        PT-30: stricken for obsolescence, 3-44.
        PT-42: stricken for obsolescence, 12-44.

IV. AUXILIARY SHIPS: 28
   A. AMMUNITION SHIP: 1
        USS Pyro, AE-1: sold for scrap 3-50
   B. CARGO SHIP: 1
        USS Vega, AK-17: sold for scrap 8-46
   C. DESTROYER TENDERS: 2
        USS Dobbin, AD-3: sold 1951
        USS Whitney, AD-4: sold for scrap 3-48
   D. GENERAL STORES ISSUE SHIPS: 2
        USS Antares, AKS-3: sold 1947
        USS Castor, AKS-1: sold 12-68
   E. HOSPITAL SHIP: 1
        USS Solace, AH-5: sold 1948
   F. MISCELLANEOUS AUXILIARIES: 3
        USS Argonne, AG-31: sold 1951
        USS Sumner, AG-32: to Maritime Commission 9-46
        USS Utah, AG-16: capsized 7 Dec 41; remains as partially submerged hulk
           at Pearl Harbor.
   G. OCEAN-GOING TUGS: 4
        USS Keosangua, AT-38: sold 7-47
        USS Navajo, AT-64: sunk east of New Hebrides 9-43
        USS Ontario, AT-13: sold 4-47
        USS Sunnadin, AT-28: to Maritime Commission 1-47
   H. OILERS: 2
        USS Neosho, AO-23: sunk in Coral Sea 5-42
        USS Ramapo, AO-12: to Maritime Commission 7-46
   I. REPAIR SHIPS: 3
        USS Medusa, AR-1: sold for scrap 8-50
        USS Rigel, AR-11: sold 1950
        USS Vestal, AR-4: sold for scrap 7-50
   J. SEAPLANE TENDERS: 2
        USS Curtiss, AV-4: sold 1-72
        USS Tangier, AV-8: sold for scrap 7-61
   K. SEAPLANE TENDERS, DESTROYER: 2
        USS Hulbert, AVD-6: sold for scrap 10-46
        USS Thornton, AVD-11: beached and abandoned off Okinawa 4-45
   L. SMALL SEAPLANE TENDERS: 2
        USS Avocet, AVP-4: sold 12-46
        USS Swan, AVP-7: to Maritime Commission 10-46
   M. SUBMARINE RESCUE VESSEL: 1
        USS Widgeon, ASR-1: sold for scrap 1948
   N. SUBMARINE TENDER: 1
        USS Pelias, AS-14: sold 1971
   O. UNCLASSIFIED MISCELLANEOUS: 1
        Chengho, IX-52: returned to owner 1946

V. SERVICE CRAFT: 27
   A. DISTRICT YARD CRAFT: 2
        YP-108
        YP-109
   B. FERRYBOAT: 1
        Manuwai, YFB-17: struck 9-54
   C. FUEL OIL BARGES: 4
        YO-21
        YO-30
        YO-43
        YO-44
   D. GARBAGE LIGHTERS: 3
        YG-15
        YG-17
        YG-21
   E. GATE VESSEL: 1
        YNg-17
   F. HARBOR TUGS: 8
        Hoga, YT-146: sold 1973
        Nokomis, YT-142: sold 1973
        Osceola, YT-129: sold 1973
        Sotoyomo, YT-9: destroyed 2-46
        YT-119
        YT-130
        YT-152
        YT-153
   G. MOTOR TUG: 1
        YMT-5
   H. NET TENDERS (BOOM): 5
        Ash, YN-2: sold 1962
        Cinchona, YN-7: sold 1962
        Cockenoe, YN-47: to Maritime Commission 7-47
        Marin, YN-53: to Maritime Commission 3-47
        Wapello, YN-56.
   I. TORPEDO TESTING BARGE: 1
        YTT-3
   J. WATER BARGE: 1
        YW-16

VI. U.S. COAST GUARD VESSELS: 4
   A. COAST GUARD BOAT: 1
        CG 8
   B. CRUISING CUTTERS: 3
        USCGC Reliance, 150: sold 6-48
        USCGC Taney, 68: struck 12-86. Now in Baltimore, Maryland Maritime
                         Musuem
        USCGC Tiger, 152: sold 1948

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

07/0221Z DEC

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:21:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: 7 DEC 41: The B-24 spy mission

During a trip to the Library of Congress several years ago, I found a copy
of the PROCEEDINGS OF ROBERTS COMMISSION, the first commission to investigate
the Pearl Harbor disaster.  Exhibit T on page 1833 lists the Hawaiian Air
Force aircraft available at the three major fields on Oahu.  One of the
aircraft that sticks out like a sore thumb is a Consolidated B-24 Liberator
at Hickam Field.  The table only states that it was a B-24; I am not sure of
the model, i.e., B-24, B-24A, etc.  I could not fathom what this aircraft was
doing there since the heavy bomber units of the USAAF were being equipped with
B-17 Flying Fortresses.  A little digging provided the answer that this
aircraft was one of two spy planes that were to photograph Japanese
installations in the Pacific.

The following is from THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II, Volume I, pages
189-190.

"During the final days of November (1941), preparations in the Philippines had
been hastened by the knowledge of increased Japanese activity in the western
Pacific.  Intelligence from British sources late in October 1941 had warned of
the presence of two Japanese aircraft carriers in the mandated islands.  Within
a few weeks American commanders learned from another warning that Japanese
planes had been detected flying over British territory, perhaps photographing
some of the Gilbert Islands.  British officials in Singapore suggested that the
associated powers send their own aircraft to photograph all the
Japanese-mandated islands, the coast line of French Indo-China, and other areas
occupied by Japan.  The War Department promptly approving the idea, notified
General MacArthur on 26 Nov 41 that two Consolidated B-24 Liberators equipped
for high-altitude photography would depart for the Philippines within 48 hours.
The crews were to fly at altitude and to avoid Japanese planes, but they were
to use every possible means of self-preservation if attacked by any aircraft.
The specific mission of the B-24's was to photograph Jaluit in the Marshall
Islands and Truk in the Caroline Islands, and to obtain as much information as
possible on the location and strength of military and naval installations.
General Brereton (Commander, Far East Air Force in the Philippines) notified
officials of the Royal Australian Air Force at Port Moresby (New Guinea) to
expect the arrival of the B-24s while General Short in Hawaii was given details
of the mission by the War Department.  For a while it appeared that American
forces in the Pacific would soon have firsthand information and photographs of
Japanese naval concentrations, but the B-24's were delayed in departing from
the United States.  Within a few days the War Department expressed fear that
the mission was impracticable because of the distance to be flown.  The mission
was not canceled, however, and one of the B-24's on 5 December reached Hawaii,
where it was decided to hold it until satisfactorily armed. From the first
there had been difficulty in securing and equipping the planes for the mission,
and at the outbreak of hostilities the second plane had not yet left the United
States."

According to Prange in AT DAWN WE SLEPT, when the B-24 arrived at Hickam Field
it only had three machine guns, one .30 caliber (7.6 mm) and two .50 caliber
(12.7 mm) in the tail and no ammunition.  It certainly was not prepared to
defend itself against any enemy action.  Since 5 Dec was a Friday, the aircraft
had to remain at least over the weekend before it could be made ready for its
mission.  It never made it; the single B-24 at Hickam Field was destroyed by
the Japanese during the attack on Sunday, 7 Dec.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

07/0222Z DEC

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:22:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: 7 DEC 41: US Army units worldwide

This post lists the U.S. Army combat units that were active on 7 Dec 41. This
post is divided into eight sections, i.e.:

   I. Armies
  II. Corps
 III. Armored Units
  IV. Cavalry Units
   V. Coast Artillery and Antiaircraft Artillery Units
  VI. Engineer Units
 VII. Field Artillery Units
VIII. Infantry Units
  IX. Units sorted by Station

Note the number of Cavalry and Coast Artillery units that were active; I
have heard that the Army was still buying horses for the Cavlary units in
Dec 41.  And of course, a ground general would never think of entrusting our
coast line to a fragile thing like an airplane.  Also note that the US Army
was still segregated in 1941 and all Afro-American Units and Puerto Rican
units were designated Colored and Pueto Rican respectively.

Regular Army infantry divisions had converted to the triangular form by 7
Dec 41, i.e., three infantry regiments and field artillery battalions.  The
National Guard infantry divisions that had been federalized had not; they
still used two infantry brigades with two infantry regiments each and a
field artillery brigade with three field artillery regiments.

ABBREVIATIONS
-------------
AA - Antiaircraft
Bde - Brigade
Bn - Battalion
Bty - Battery
CA - Coast Artillery
Cav - Cavalry
Co - Company
Cp - Camp
CZ - Canal Zone
Div - Division
Engr - Engineer
FA - Field Artillery
Ft - Fort
Gp - Group
How - Howitzer
Inf - Infantry
Mil - Military
NG  - National Guard
PI - Philippine Islands
PR - Puerto Rico
Rcn - Reconnaissance
Regt - Regiment
Res - Reservation
TA - Territory of TA
TH - Territory of TH
Trk - Truck

I. ARMIES
---------
First Army, Ft Jay, NY
Second Army, Chicago Ill
Third Army, Ft Sam Houston, Tex
Fourth Army, Presidio of San Francisco, Calif

II. CORPS
---------
   I Armored Corps, Ft Knox, Ky
   I Army Corps, Ft Jackson, SC
   I Cavalry Corps, Ft Bliss, Tex
  II Army Corps, Ft Jay, NY
 III Army Corps, Presidio of Monterey, Calif
  IV Army Corps, Ft Benning, Ga
   V Army Corps, Cp Beauregard, La
  VI Army Corps, Ft Sheridan, Ill
 VII Army Corps, Ft McClellan, Ala
VIII Army Corps, Ft Sam Houston, Tex
  IX Army Corps, Ft Lewis, Wash.

III. ARMORED UNITS
------------------

Armored Divisions
-----------------
1st Armored Div, Ft Knox, Ky
2d  Armored Div, Ft Benning, Ga
3d  Armored Div, Cp Polk, La
4th Armored Div, Pine Cp, NY
5th Armored Div, Ft Knox, Ky

Armored Brigades
----------------
1st Armored Bde, Ft Jackson, SC
2d  Armored Bde, Ft Benning, Ga
3d  Armored Bde, Cp Polk, La
4th Armored Bde, Pine Cp, NY
5th Armored Bde, Ft Knox, Ky

Armored Groups
--------------
1st Provisional Tank Gp, Ft Stotsenburg, PI
1st Tank Gp, Ft George G Meade, Md

Armored Regiments
-----------------
 1st Armored Regt (Light), Ft Knox, Ky
13th Armored Regt (Light), Ft Knox, Ky
31st Armored Regt (Light), Ft Knox, Ky
32d  Armored Regt (Light), Cp Polk, La
33d  Armored Regt (Light), Cp Polk, La
34th Armored Regt (Light), Ft Knox, Ky
35th Armored Regt (Light), Pine Cp, NY
37th Armored Regt (Light), Pine Cp, NY
40th Armored Regt (Medium), Cp Beauregard, La
66th Armored Regt (Light), Ft Benning, Ga
67th Armored Regt (Medium), Ft Benning, Ga
68th Armored Regt (Light), Ft Benning, Ga
69th Armored Regt (Medium), Ft Knox, Ky
80th Armored Regt (Medium), Pine Cp, NY
81st Armored Regt (Medium), Ft Knox, Ky

Tank Battalions
---------------
 70th Tank Bn (Light), Ft George G Meade, Md
191st Tank Bn (Light), Ft George G Meade, Md
       Co A = NY NG      Co B = Mass NG
       Co C = Va NG      Co D = Conn NG
192d  Tank Bn (Light), PI
       Co A = Wisc NG    Co B = Ill NG
       Co C = Ohio NG    Co D = Ky NG
193d  Tank Bn (Light), Ft Benning, Ga
       Co A = Ga NG      Co B = Ala NG
       Co C = Tex NG    Co D = Colo NG
194th Tank Bn (Light)
       Co A = Minn NG  in Philippine Is
       Co B = Mo NG  at Ft Lewis, Wash
       Co C = Calif NG  in Philippine Is
751st Tank Bn (Medium), Ft Benning, Ga
752d  Tank Bn (Medium), Ft Lewis, Wash
753d  Tank Bn (Medium), Ft Benning, Ga
754th Tank Bn (Medium), Pine Cp, NY
755th Tank Bn (Medium), Cp Bowie, Tex
756th Tank Bn (Light), Ft Lewis, Wash
757th Tank Bn (Light), Ft Ord, Calif
758th Tank Bn (Light) (Colored), Ft Knox, Ky
759th Tank Bn (Light), Ft Knox, Ky
760th Tank Bn (Light), Cp Bowie, Tex

IV. CAVALRY UNITS
-----------------

Cavalry Divisions
-----------------
1st Cav Div, Ft Bliss, Tex
2d  Cav Div (Horse), Ft Riley, Kans

Cavalry Brigades
----------------
Washington Provisional Bde, Ft Myer, Va
 1st Cav Bde, Ft Bliss, Tex
 2d  Cav Bde, Ft Bliss, Tex
 3d  Cav Bde, Ft Riley, Kans
 4th Cav Bde (Colored), Ft Riley, Kans
56th Cav Bde, Tex , Ft McIntosh, Tex

Cavalry Regiments
-----------------
  2d  Cav Regt (Horse), Ft Riley, Kans
  3d  Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), Ft Myer, Va
  4th Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), Ft Meade, SD
  5th Cav Regt (Horse), Ft Bliss, Tex
  6th Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), Ft Oglethorpe, Tenn
  7th Cav Regt (Horse), Ft Bliss, Tex
  8th Cav Regt (Horse), Ft Bliss, Tex
  9th Cav Regt (Horse) (Colored), Ft Riley, Kans
 10th Cav Regt (Horse) (Colored), Ft Riley, Kans
 11th Cav Regt (Horse), Ft Seeley, Calif
 12th Cav Regt (Horse), Ft Bliss, Tex
 14th Cav Regt (Horse), Ft Riley, Kans
 26th Cav Regt (Horse) (Philippine Scouts), PI
101st Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), NY NG, Ft Devans, Mass
102d  Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), NJ NG, Ft Jackson, SC
104th Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), Pa NG, Indiantown Gap Mil Res, Pa
106th Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), Ill NG, Cp Livingston, La
107th Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), Ohio NG, Cp Forrest, Tenn
112th Cav Regt (Horse), Tex NG, Ft Clark, Tex
113th Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), Iowa NG, Cp Bowie, Tex
115th Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), Wyo NG, Ft Lewis, Wash
124th Cav Regt (Horse), Tex NG, Ft Brown, Tex

Cavalry Squadrons and Reconnaissance Battlaions
-----------------------------------------------
US Military Academy Cav Squadron (Colored), West Point, NY
 4th Rcn Bn (Armored), Pine Cp, NY
81st Rcn Bn (Armored), Ft Knox, Ky
82d  Rcn Bn (Armored), Ft Benning, Ga
83d  Rcn Bn (Armored), Cp Beauregard, La
85th Rcn Bn (Armored), Ft Knox, Ky
91st Cav Rcn Squadron, Ft Bliss, Tex


V. COAST ARTILLERY AND ANTIAIRCRAFT ARTILLERY UNITS
---------------------------------------------------

Coast Artillery Brigades
------------------------
Atlantic CA  Bde, Ft Randolph, CZ
Hawaiian Separate CA  Bde, Ft DeRussy, TH
Pacific CA  Bde, Ft Amador, CZ
 33d  CA  Bde (AA), Cp Hulen, Tex
 34th CA  Bde (AA), Ft Bragg, NC
 36th CA  Bde (AA), Cp Edwards, Mass
 37th CA  Bde (AA), Los Angeles, Calif
 38th CA  Bde (AA), Cp Stewart, Ga
 39th CA  Bde (AA), Ft Bliss, Tex
 40th CA  Bde (AA), Ft Sheridan, Ill
 53d  CA  Bde (AA), TH
101st CA  Bde (AA), Minn NG, Cp Haan, Calif
102d  CA  Bde (AA), NY NG, Cp Stewart, Ga

Coast Artillery Groups
----------------------
17th CA Training Gp, Cp Davis, NC
18th CA Training Gp, Cp Davis, NC

Coast Artillery Regiments
-------------------------
  1st CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type C), Ft Sherman, CZ
  2d  CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), Ft Monroe, Va
  3d  CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), Ft MacArthur, Calif
  4th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type C), Ft Armador, CZ
  5th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), Ft Hamilton, NY
  6th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type C), Ft Winfield Scott, Calif
  7th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B), Ft Hancock, NJ
  8th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B), Ft Preble, Maine
  9th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), Ft Banks, Mass
 10th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B), Ft Adams, RI
 11th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B), Ft HG Wright, NY
 13th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), Ft Barrancas, Fla
 14th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), Ft Worden, Wash
 15th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), Ft Kamehameha, TH
 16th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), TH
 18th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B), Ft Stevens, Ore
 19th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), Ft Rosecrans, Calif
 20th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), Ft Crockett, Tex
 21st CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B), Ft Dupont, Del
 22d  CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B), Ft Constitution, NH
 23d  CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type D), Ft Rodman, Mass
 52d  CA Regt (Railway 8-inch Gun), Ft Hancock, NJ
 54th CA Regt (155mm Gun) (Mobile) (Colored), Cp Davis, NC
 56th CA Regt (155mm Gun) (Mobile), Ft Cronkhite, Calif
 57th CA Regt (155mm Gun) (Mobile), Ft Cronkhite, Calif
        Bty B in Bermuda
        Bty C in Newfoundland
 59th CA Regt (Harbor Defense), Ft Mills, PI
 60th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ft Mills, PI
 61st CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ft Sheridan, Ill
 62d  CA Regt (AA) (Mobile), Ft Hancock, NJ (Btys in Newfoundland)
 63d  CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ft Bliss, Tex
 64th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), TH
 65th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Los Angeles, Calif
 67th CA Regt (AA) (Mobile), Ft Bragg, NC
 68th CA Regt (AA) (Mobile), Cp Edwards, Mass
 69th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Cp Hulen, Tex
 70th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Cp Stewart, Ga
 71st CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ft Story, Va
 72d  CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ft Randolph, CZ
 73d  CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ft Amador, CZ
 74th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Cp Pendleton, Va
 75th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ft Richardson, TA
 76th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile) (Colored), Ft Bragg, NC
 77th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile) (Colored), Ft Bragg, NC
 78th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ft MacArthur, Calif
 79th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ft Bliss, Tex
 82d  CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ft Randolph, CZ
 83d  CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ft Kobbe, CZ
 91st CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Philippine Scouts), Ft Mills, PI
 92d  CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Philippine Scouts), Ft Mills, PI
 93d  CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Cp Davis, NC
 94th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Cp Davis, NC
 95th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Cp Davis, NC
 96th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Cp Davis, NC
 97th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ft Kamehameha, TH
 98th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Schofield Barracks, TH
 99th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile) (Colored), Cp Davis, NC
100th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile) (Colored), Cp Davis, NC
197th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), NH NG, Cp Hulen, Tex
198th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Del NG, Ft Ontario, NY
200th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), NM NG, Ft Stotsenburg, PI
202d  CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ill NG, Ft Bliss, Tex
203d  CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Mo NG, Cp Hulen, Tex
204th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), La NG, Cp Hulen, Tex
205th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Wash NG, Ft Lewis, Wash
206th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ark NG, Cp Murray, Wash
207th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), NY NG, Cp Stewart,  Ga
208th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Conn NG, Cp Edwards, Mass
209th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), NY NG, Cp Stewart, Ga
210th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Mich NG, Ft Sheridan, Ill
211th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Mass NG, Cp Hulen, Tex
212th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), NY NG, Cp Stewart, Ga
213th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Pa NG, Cp Stewart, Ga
214th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ga NG, Cp Stewart, Ga
215th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Minn NG, Ft Greely, TA
216th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Minn NG, Presidio of San Francisco, Calif
217th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Minn NG, Oakland, Calif
240th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), Me NG, Ft McKinley, Maine
241st CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type C), Mass NG, Ft Andrews, Mass
242d  CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), Conn NG, Ft Terry, NY
243d  CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), RI NG, Ft Getty, RI
244th CA Regt (155mm Gun) (Mobile), NY NG, Cp Pendleton, Va
245th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type C), NY NG, Ft Hancock, NJ
246th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), Va NG, Ft Monroe & Ft Story, Va
248th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B), Wash NG, Ft Worden,  Wash
249th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B), Ore NG, Ft Stevens, Ore
250th CA Regt (155mm Gun) (Mobile), Calif NG, TA
251st CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Calif NG, Cp Malakole, TH
252d  CA Regt (155mm Gun) (Mobile), NC NG, Ft Screven, Ga
253d  CA Regt (155mm Gun) (Mobile), PR NG, PR
260th CA Regt (AA) (Semimobile), DC NG, Ft Bliss, Tex
263d  CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B), SC NG, Ft Moultrie, SC
265th CA Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B), Fla NG, Ft Crockett, Tex
369th CA Regt (AA) (Colored), NY NG, Cp Edwards, Mass
625th CA Regt (Harbor Defense), Ft Rosecrans, Calif

Harbor Defenses
---------------
Harbor Defenses of Argentia and St John's, Newfoundland
Harbor Defenses of Balboa, CZ
Harbor Defenses of Bermuda, Bermuda
Harbor Defenses of Boston, Ft Banks, Mass
Harbor Defenses of Charleston, Ft Moultire, SC
Harbor Defenses of Chesapeake Bay, Ft Monroe, Va
Harbor Defenses of Columbia River, Ft Stevens, Ore
Harbor Defenses of Cristobal, CZ
Harbor Defenses of Delaware, Ft Miles, Del
Harbor Defenses of Eastern NY, Ft Totten, NY
Harbor Defenses of Galveston, Ft Crockett, Tex
Harbor Defenses of Honolulu, Ft Hafter, TH
Harbor Defenses of Key West, Ft Taylor, Fla
Harbor Defenses of Long Island Sound, Ft HG Wright, NY
Harbor Defenses of Los Angeles, Ft MacArthur, Calif
Harbor Defenses of Manila & Subic Bays, Ft Mills, PI
Harbor Defenses of Narragansett Bay, Ft Adams, RI
Harbor Defenses of New Bedford, Ft Rodman, Mass
Harbor Defenses of NY, Ft Hancock, NJ
Harbor Defenses of Pensacola, Ft Barrancas, Fla
Harbor Defenses of Portland, Ft William, Maine
Harbor Defenses of Portsmouth, Cp Langdon, NH
Harbor Defenses of Puget Sound, Ft Worden, Wash
Harbor Defenses of San Diego, Ft Rosecrans, Calif
Harbor Defenses of San Francisco, Ft Winfield Scott, Calif
Harbor Defenses of San Juan, Ft Brooke, PR
Harbor Defenses of Southern NY, Ft Hamilton, NY
Harbor Defenses of Trinidad, Trinidad, British West Indies
Harbor Defenses of Wilmington, Wilmington, NC

Antiarcraft Artillery, Barrage Balloon and  Coast Artillery Battalions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Provisional CA Bn (155mm Gun) (Philippine Scouts), PI
 23d  Separate CA Bn (Harbor Defense), Ft Rodman, Mass
101st Separate CA Bn (AA-Automatic Weapons), Tex NG, station unknown
102d  Separate CA Bn (AA-Automatic Weapons), NY NG, station unknown
103d  Separate CA Bn (AA-Automatic Weapons), Ky NG, station unknown
104th Separate CA Bn (AA-Automatic Weapons), Ala NG, station unknown
105th Separate CA Bn (AA-Automatic Weapons), La NG, station unknown
106th Separate CA Bn (AA-Automatic Weapons), Ky NG, station unknown
107th Separate CA Bn (AA-Automatic Weapons), SC NG, station unknown
121st Separate CA Bn (AA-Gun), Nev NG, station unknown
122d  Separate CA Bn (AA-Gun), NJ NG, station unknown
123d  Separate CA Bn (AA-Gun), PR NG, PR
261st CA Bn (Harbor Defense), Del NG, station unknown
301st Separate CA Barrage Balloon Bn, Cp Davis, NC
302d  CA Barrage Balloon Bn, Cp Davis, NC
304th CA Barrage Balloon Bn, Cp Davis, NC
305th CA Barrage Balloon Bn, Cp Davis, NC
303d  CA Barrage Balloon Bn, Cp Davis, NC
421st CA Bn (AA-Composite) (Semimobile), St John's, Newfoundland
423d  CA Bn (AA-Composite) (Semimobile), Ft Bliss, Tex


VI. ENGINEER UNITS
------------------

Engineer Regiments
------------------
  5th Engr Combat Regt, Iceland
 11th Engr Combat Regt, Ft Clayton, CZ
 14th Engr Regt (Combat) (Philippine Scouts), Ft Wm McKinley, PI
 18th Engr Combat Regt, Vancouver Barracks, Wash
 19th Engr Combat Regt, Ft Ord, Calif
 20th Engr Combat Regt, Ft Benning, Ga
 20th Engr Regt (Aviation), Langley Field, Va
 34th Engr Combat Regt, TH
 35th Engr Combat Regt, Cp Joseph T Robinson, Ark
 36th Engr Combat Regt, Plattsburg Barracks, NY
 37th Engr Combat Regt, Cp Bowie, Tex
 38th Engr Regt (Combat), Ft Jackson, SC
 41st Engr General Service Regt (Colored), Ft Bragg, NC
 42d  Engr General Service Regt, Cp Shelby, Miss
 43d  Engr Regt (General Service), Cp Joseph T Robinson, Ark
 43d  Engr Regt (General Service), Ft Belvoir, Va
 45th Engr General Service Regt (Colored), Cp Blanding, Fla
 46th Engr General Service Regt, Cp Bowie, Tex
 47th Engr General Service Regt, Ft Ord, Calif
101st Engrs (Combat), Mass NG, Cp Edwards, Mass
102d  Engrs (Combat), NY NG, Ft McClellan, Ala
103d  Engrs (Combat), Pa NG, Indiantown Gap Military Reservation, Pa
104th Engrs (Combat), NJ NG, Ft Dix, NJ
105th Engrs (Combat), NC NG, Ft Jackson, SC
106th Engrs (Combat), Miss NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
107th Engrs (Combat), Mich NG, Cp Livingston, La
108th Engrs (Combat), Ill NG, Cp Forrest, Tenn
109th Engrs (Combat), SD NG, Cp Claiborne, La
110th Engrs (Combat), Mo NG, Cp Joseph T Robinson, Ark
111th Engrs (Combat), Tex NG, Cp Bowie, Tex
112th Engrs (Combat), Ohio NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
113th Engrs (Combat), Ind NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
115th Engrs (Combat), Utah NG, Cp San Luis Obispo, Calif
116th Engrs (Combat), Ida NG, Ft Lewis, Wash
118th Engrs (Combat), RI NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
120th Engrs (Combat), NM NG, Cp Barkeley, Tex
121st Engrs (Combat), DC NG, Ft George G Meade, Md
130th Engrs (Combat), PR NG, Ft Buchanan, PR
151st Engrs (Combat), Ala NG, Cp Claiborne, La (1st Bn at Dutch Harbor, TA)

Engineer Battalions
-------------------
  1st Bn, 78th Engr Combat Regt, Ft Buchanan, PR
  1st Engr Combat Bn, Ft Dupont, Del
  2d  Engr Combat Bn, Ft Logan, Colo
  3d  Engr Combat Bn, Schofield Barracks, TH
  4th Engr Combat Bn, Ft Benning, Ga
  6th Engr Combat Bn, Ft Lawton, Wash
  7th Engr Combat Bn, Ft Logan, Colo
  8th Engr Combat Bn, Ft McIntosh, Tex
  9th Engr Combat Squadron, Ft Riley, Kans
 10th Engr Combat Bn, Ft Lewis, Wash
 11th Engr Combat Bn, Cp Jackson, SC
 13th Engr Combat Bn, Ft Ord, Calif
 15th Engr Combat Bn, Ft Bragg, NC
 16th Armored Engr Bn, Ft Knox, Ky
 17th Armored Engr Bn, Ft Benning, Ga
 22d  Armored Engr Bn, Ft Knox, Ky
 23d  Armored Engr Bn, Cp Beauregard, La
 24th Armored Engr Bn, Pine Cp, NY
 27th Engr Bn (Combat), Ft Dupont, Del
 29th Engr Bn (Topographic) (Army), Portland, Ore
 30th Engr Bn (Topographic) (Army), Portland, Ore
 65th Engr Combat Bn, Schofield Barracks, TH
 80th Engr Water Supply Bn, Cp Livingston, La
 84th Army Engr Camouflage Bn, Ft Belvoir, Va
 85th Engr Heavy Ponton Bn, Ft Belvoir, Va
 86th Engr Heavy Ponton Bn, Ft Knox, Ky
 87th Engr Heavy Ponton Bn, Ft Benning, Ga
 88th Engr Heavy Ponton Bn, Cp Beauregard, La
 89th Engr Heavy Ponton Bn, Ft Leonard Wood, Mo
 90th Engr Heavy Ponton Bn, Ft Lewis, Wash
 91st Engr Bn (Separate) (Colored), Cp Shelby, Miss
 92d  Engr Bn (Separate) (Colored), Ft Leornard Wood, Mo
 93d  Engr Bn (Separate) (Colored), Cp Livingston, La
 94th Engr Bn (Separate) (Colored), Ft Custer, Mich
 95th Engr Bn (Separate) (Colored), Ft Belvoir, Va
 96th Engr Bn (Separate) (Colored), Ft Bragg, NC
 97th Engr Bn (Separate) (Colored), Cp Blanding, Fla
 98th Engr Bn (Separate) (Colored), Cp Bowie, Tex
802d  Engr Aviation Bn, Ft Glenn, TA
803d  Engr Aviation Bn, PI
804th Engr Aviation Bn, Schofield Barracks, TH
805th Engr Aviation Bn, Albrook Field, CZ
808th Engr Aviation Bn, March Field, Calif
809th Engr Aviation Bn, Westover Field, Mass
810th Engr Aviation Bn (Colored), MacDill Field, Fla
811th Engr Aviation Bn (Colored), Langley Field, Va


VII. FIELD ARTILLERY UNITS
--------------------------

Field Artillery Brigades
------------------------
Ft Bragg Provisional FA Bde, Ft Bragg, NC
13th FA Bde, Ft Bragg, NC
18th FA Bde, Ft Sill, Okla
26th FA Bde, Enroute US to PI
46th FA Bde (Colored), Cp Livingston, La
51st FA Bde, Mass NG, Cp Edwards, Mass
52d  FA Bde, NY NG, Ft McClellan, Ala
53d  FA Bde, Pa NG, Indiantown Gap Mil Res, Pa
54th FA Bde, Va NG, Ft George G Meade, Md
55th FA Bde, Ga NG, Ft Jackson, SC
56th FA Bde, Fla NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
57th FA Bde, Wisc NG, Cp Livingston, La
58th FA Bde, Ill NG, Cp Forrest, Tenn
59th FA Bde, Minn NG, Cp Claiborne, La
60th FA Bde, Kans NG, Cp Joseph T Robinson, Ark
61st FA Bde, Tex NG, Cp Bowie, Tex
62d  FA Bde, Ohio NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
63d  FA Bde, Ky NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
65th FA Bde, Utah NG, Cp San Luis Obispo, Calif
66th FA Bde, Wash NG, Ft Lewis, Wash
68th FA Bde, RI NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
69th FA Bde, NJ NG, Ft Dix, NJ
70th FA Bde, Okla NG, Cp Barkeley, Tex
71st FA Bde, NY NG, Ft Ethan Allen, Vt
72d  FA Bde, Mich NG, Ft Leonard Wood, Mo
73d  FA Bde, Pa NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
74th FA Bde, Ga NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
75th FA Bde, Tenn NG, Cp Forrest, Tenn
76th FA Bde, Calif NG, Ft Francis E Warren, Wyo

Field Artillery Regiments
-------------------------
 14th FA Regt (105mm How) (Armored), Ft Benning, Ga
 17th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Ft Bragg, NC
 18th FA Regt (Composite School Troops), Ft Sill, Okla
 23d  FA Regt (2.95-inch Gun) (Pack) (Philippine Scouts), Ft Stotsenberg, PI
 24th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn) (Philippine Scouts), Ft Stotsenberg, PI
 30th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Cp Roberts, Calif
 35th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized), Cp Blanding, Fla
 36th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized), Ft Bragg, NC
 40th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Cp Roberts, Calif
 47th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Ft Bragg, NC
 65th FA Regt (105mm How) (Armored), Ft Knox, Ky
 66th FA Regt (105mm How) (Armored), Pine Cp, NY
 67th FA Regt (105mm How) (Armored), Cp Polk, La
 68th FA Regt (105mm How) (Armored), Ft Knox, Ky
 72d  FA Regt (105mm How) (Trk Drawn), Ft Bragg, NC
 77th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Ft DA Russell, Tex
 79th FA Regt (240mm How) (Motorized), Ft Bragg, NC
 88th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Philippine Scouts), Ft Stotsenberg, PI
101st FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Mass NG, Cp Edwards, Mass
102d  FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Mass NG, Cp Edwards, Mass
103d  FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), RI NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
104th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), NY NG, Ft McClellan, Ala
105th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), NY NG, Ft McClellan, Ala
106th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), NY NG, Ft McClellan, Ala
107th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Pa NG, Indiantown Gap Mil Res, Pa
108th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Pa NG, Indiantown Gap Mil Res, Pa
109th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Pa NG, Indiantown Gap Mil Res, Pa
110th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Md NG, Ft George G Meade, Md
111th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Va NG, Ft George G Meade, Md
112th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), NJ NG, Ft Bragg, NC
113th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), NC NG, Ft Jackson, SC
114th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Miss NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
115th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Tenn NG, Ft Jackson, SC
116th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Fla NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
117th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Ala NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
118th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Ga NG, Ft Jackson, SC
119th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized), Mich NG, Ft Leonard Wood, Mo
120th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Wisc NG, Cp Livingston, La
121st FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Wisc NG, Cp Livingston, La
122d  FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Ill NG, Cp Forrest, Tenn
123d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Ill NG, Cp Joseph T Robinson, Ark
124th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Ill NG, Cp Forrest, Tenn
125th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Minn NG, Cp Claiborne, La
126th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Wisc NG, Cp Livingston, La
127th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Kans NG, Cp Joseph T Robinson, Ark
128th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Mo NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
130th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Kans NG, Cp Joseph T Robinson, Ark
131st FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Tex NG, Cp Bowie Tex (2d Bn enroute US
  to PI)
132d  FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Tex NG, Cp Bowie, Tex
133d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Tex NG, Cp Bowie, Tex
134th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Ohio NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
135th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Ohio NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
136th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Ohio NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
138th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Ky NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
139th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Ind NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
140th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), La NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
142d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Ark NG, Ft Sill, Okla
143d  FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Calif NG, Cp San Luis Obispo, Calif
144th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized), Calif NG, Ft Lewis, Wash
145th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Utah NG, Cp San Luis Obispo, Calif
146th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Wash NG, Ft Lewis, Wash
147th FA Regt (105mm How) (Trk Drawn), SD NG, enroute US to PI
148th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Ida NG, enroute US to PI
150th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Ind NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
151st FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Minn NG, Cp Claiborne,  La
152d  FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Me NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
156th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), NY NG, Ft Dix, NJ
157th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), NJ NG, Ft Dix, NJ
158th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Okla NG, Ft Sill, Okla 2d Bn at Cp
  Barkeley, Tex
160th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Okla NG, Cp Barkeley, Tex
161st FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), Kans NG, Cp Joseph T Robinson, Ark
162d  FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), PR NG, Henry Barracks, PR
165th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk Drawn), NJ NG, Ft Dix, NJ
166th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Pa NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
168th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized), Colo NG, Cp Forrest, Tenn
172d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), NH NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
176th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Pa NG, Ft George G Meade, Md
177th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Mich NG, Ft Leonard Wood, Mo
178th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), SC NG, Ft Bragg, NC
179th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Ga NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
180th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Mass NG, Cp Edwards, Mass
181st FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Tenn NG, Cp Forrest, Tenn
182d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Mich NG, Ft Leonard Wood, Mo
183d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Ida NG, Ft Francis E Warren, Wyo
184th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn) (Colored), Ill NG, Ft Custer, Mich
185th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Iowa NG, Cp Claiborne, La
186th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), NY NG, Ft Ethan Allen, Vt
187th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), NY NG, Ft Ethan Allen, Vt
188th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), ND NG, Ft Francis E Warren, Wyo
189th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Okla NG, Cp Barkeley, Tex
190th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized), Pa NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
191st FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Tenn NG, Cp Forrest, Tenn
192d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Conn NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
218th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Ore NG, Ft Lewis, Wash
222d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk Drawn), Utah NG, Cp San Luis Obispo, Calif
258th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized), NY NG, Madison Barracks, NJ
349th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized) (Colored), Ft Sill, Okla
350th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized) (Colored), Cp Livingston, La
351st FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized) (Colored), Cp Livingston, La
353d  FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized) (Colored), Cp Livingston, La

Field Artillery Battalions
--------------------------
 1st FA Bn (105mm How Tractor Drawn), Ft Sill, Okla
 1st FA Observation Bn, Ft Bragg, NC
 2d  FA Bn (105mm How Tractor Drawn), Ft Clayton, CZ
 2d  FA Observation Bn, Ft Bragg, NC
 3d  FA Bn (75mm How Horse-Drawn), Ft Riley, Kans
 3d  FA Observation Bn, Ft Bragg, NC
 4th FA Bn (75mm How, Pack), Ft Bragg, NC
 5th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor Drawn), Madison Barracks, NJ
 6th FA Bn (105mm How Tractor Drawn), Ft Bragg, NC
 7th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Ethan Allen, Vt
 7th FA Observation Bn, Ft Bragg, NC
 8th FA Bn (105mm How Tractor Drawn), Ft Shafter, TH
 8th FA Observation Bn, Ft Sill, Okla
 9th FA Bn (155mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Lewis, Wash
10th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Lewis, Wash
11th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor Drawn), Schofield Barracks, TH
12th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor Drawn), Ft Sam Houston, Tex
13th FA Bn (105mm How Tractor Drawn), Schofield Barracks, TH
15th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Sam Houston, Tex
16th FA Bn (75mm Gun Horse-Drawn), Ft Myer, Va
19th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Knox, Ky
20th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor Drawn), Ft Benning, Ga
21st FA Bn (155mm How Tractor Drawn), Ft Knox, Ky
22d  FA Bn (Armored), Pine Cp, NY
25th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Henry Barracks, PR
26th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Bragg, NC
27th FA Bn (Armored), Ft Knox, Ky
28th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor Drawn), Ft Jackson, SC
29th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Benning, Ga
31st FA Bn (155mm How Tractor Drawn), Ft Ord, Calif
32d  FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Ethan Allen, Vt
33d  FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Ethan Allen, Vt
34th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor Drawn), Ft Bragg, NC
37th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Sam Houston, Tex
38th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Ethan Allen, Vt
39th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Lewis, Wash
41st FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Lewis, Wash
42d  FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Benning, Ga
43d  FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Jackson, SC
45th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Jackson, SC
46th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Knox, Ky
48th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Ord, Calif
49th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Ord, Calif
50th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Knox, Ky
51st FA Bn (105mm How Tractor Drawn), Ft Sill, Okla
52d  FA Bn (105mm How Tractor Drawn), Schofield Barracks, TH
53d  FA Bn (105mm How Tractor Drawn), Ft Sill, Okla
54th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Cp Beauregard, La
56th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Jackson, SC
57th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Ord, Calif
58th Armored FA Bn, Ft Knox, Ky
60th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Bragg, NC
61st FA Bn (75mm How Horse-Drawn), Ft Bliss, Tex
62d  FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Bliss, Tex
63d  FA Bn (105mm How Tractor Drawn), Schofield Barracks, TH
64th FA Bn (105mm How Tractor Drawn), Oahu, TH
70th FA Bn (75mm Gun Horse-Drawn), Ft Jackson, SC
71st FA Bn (75mm Gun Horse-Drawn), Ft Jackson, SC
74th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Ord, Calif
75th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor Drawn), Ft Ord, Calif
76th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Ord, Calif
78th Armored FA Bn, Ft Benning, Ga
80th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor Drawn), Ft Des Moines, Iowa
81st FA Bn (155mm How Tractor Drawn), TA
82d  FA Bn (105mm How Tractor Drawn), Ft Bliss, Tex
83d  FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Sill, Okla
84th FA Bn (105mm How Trk Drawn), Ft Bragg, NC
86th FA Bn (155mm How) (Philippine Scouts), Ft Stotsenburg, PI
87th Armored FA Bn, Ft William E Davis, Panama
89th FA Bn (105mm How Tractor Drawn), Ft Shafter, TH
90th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor Drawn), Schofield Barracks, TH
97th FA Bn (75mm How, Pack), Ft Bragg, NC
98th FA Bn (75mm How, Pack), Ft Lewis, Wash
99th FA Bn (75mm How, Pack), Edgewood Arsenal, Md


VIII. INFANTRY UNITS
--------------------

Infantry Divisions
------------------
Philippine Div, Ft McKinley, PI
 1st Div, Ft Devens, Mass
 2d  Div, Ft Sam Houston, Tex
 3d  Div, Ft Lewis, Wash
 4th Motorized Div, Ft Benning, Ga
 5th Div, Ft Custer, Mich
 6th Div, Ft Leonard Wood, Mo
 7th Div, Ft Ord, Calif
 8th Inf Div, Ft Jackson, SC
 9th Div, Ft Bragg, NC
24th Inf Div, Schofield Barracks, TH
25th Inf Div, Schofield Barracks, TH
26th Div, Mass NG, Cp Edward, Mass
27th Div, NY NG, Ft McClellan, Ala
28th Div, Pa NG, Indiantown Gap Mil Res, Pa
29th Div, DC NG, Ft George G Meade, Md
30th Div, SC NG, Ft Jackson, SC
31st Div, Ala NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
32d  Div, Mich NG, Cp Livingston, La
33d  Div, Ill NG, Cp Forrest, Tenn
34th Div, Iowa NG, Cp Claiborne, La
35th Div, Neb NG, Ft Ord, Calif
36th Div, Tex NG, Cp Bowie, Tex
37th Div, Ohio NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
38th Div, Ind NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
40th Div, Calif NG, Cp San Luis Obispo, Calif
41st Div, Ore NG, Ft Lewis, Wash
43d  Div, Conn NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
44th Div, NJ NG, Ft Dix, NJ
45th Div, Okla NG, Cp Barkeley, Tex

Infantry Brigades
-----------------
51st Inf Bde, Mass NG, Cp Edwards, Mass
52d  Inf Bde, Mass NG, Cp Edwards, Mass
53d  Inf Bde, NY NG, Ft McClellan, Ala
54th Inf Bde, NY NG, Ft McClellan, Ala
55th Inf Bde, Pa NG, Indiantown Gap Mil Res, Pa
56th Inf Bde, Pa NG, Indiantown Gap Mil Res, Pa
57th Inf Bde, NJ NG, Ft Dix, NJ
58th Inf Bde, Md NG, Ft George G Meade, Md
59th Inf Bde, Ga NG, Ft Jackson, SC
60th Inf Bde, NC NG, Ft Jackson, SC
61st Inf Bde, La NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
62d  Inf Bde, Ala & Fla NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
63d  Inf Bde, Mich NG, Cp Livingston, La
64th Inf Bde, Wisc NG, Cp Livingston, La
65th Inf Bde, Ill NG, Cp Forrest, Tenn
66th Inf Bde, Ill NG, Cp Forrest, Tenn
67th Inf Bde, Iowa NG, Cp Claiborne, La
68th Inf Bde, Minn & ND NG, Cp Claiborne, La
69th Inf Bde, Neb & Kans NG, Cp Joseph T Robinson, Ark
70th Inf Bde, Mo NG, Cp Joseph T Robinson, Ark
71st Inf Bde, Tex NG, Cp Bowie, Tex
72d  Inf Bde, Tex NG, Cp Bowie, Tex
73d  Inf Bde, Ohio NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
74th Inf Bde, Ohio NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
75th Inf Bde, Ky NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
76th Inf Bde, Ind NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
79th Inf Bde, Calif NG, Cp San Luis Obispo, Calif
80th Inf Bde, Calif NG, Cp San Luis Obispo, Calif
81st Inf Bde, Wash NG, Ft Lewis, Wash
82d  Inf Bde, Ore NG, Ft Lewis, Wash
85th Inf Bde, Conn NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
86th Inf Bde, Vt & Me NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
87th Inf Bde, NY NG, Ft Dix, NJ
88th Inf Bde, Va NG, Ft George G Meade, Md
89th Inf Bde, Ariz & Colo NG, Cp Barkeley, Tex
90th Inf Bde, Okla NG, Cp Barkeley, Tex
92d  Inf Bde, PR NG, Cp Tortuguero, PR

Infantry Regiments
------------------
  1st Inf Regt, Ft Leornard Wood, Mo
  2d  Inf Regt, Ft Custer, Mich
  3d  Inf Regt, Ft Snelling, Minn 1st Bn at Ft Pepperrell, Newfoundland
  4th Inf Regt, TA
  5th Inf Regt, Cp Paraiso, CZ
  6th Inf Regt (Armored), Ft Knox, Ky
  7th Inf Regt, Ft Lewis, Wash
  8th Inf Regt, Ft Benning, Ga
  9th Inf Regt, Ft Sam Houston, Tex
 10th Inf Regt, Iceland
 11th Inf Regt, Ft Custer, Mich (Cos in Bermuda & Trinidad)
 12th Inf Regt, Ft Benning, Ga
 13th Inf Regt, Ft Jackson, SC
 14th Inf Regt, Ft William D Davis, CZ
 15th Inf Regt, Ft Lewis, Wash
 16th Inf Regt, Ft Devens, Mass
 17th Inf Regt, Ft Ord, Calif
 18th Inf Regt, Ft Devens, Mass
 19th Inf Regt, Schofield Barracks, TH
 20th Inf Regt, Ft Leonard Wood, Mo
 21st Inf Regt, Schofield Barracks, TH
 22d  Inf Regt, Ft Benning, Ga
 23d  Inf Regt, Ft Sam Houston, Tex
 24th Inf Regt (Colored), Ft Benning, Ga
 25th Inf Regt (Colored), Ft Huachuca, Ariz
 26th Inf Regt, Ft Devens, Mass
 27th Inf Regt, Schofield Barracks, TH
 28th Inf Regt, Ft Jackson, SC
 29th Inf Regt, Ft Benning, Ga
 30th Inf Regt, Ft Lewis, Wash
 31st Inf Regt, Manila, PI
 32d  Inf Regt (Motorized), Ft Ord, Calif
 33d  Inf Regt, Ft Clayton, CZ
 34th Inf Regt, enroute US to TH
 35th Inf Regt, Schofield Barracks, TH
 36th Inf Regt (Armored), Cp Polk, La
 37th Inf Regt, Ft Greely, TA
 38th Inf Regt, Ft Sam Houston, Tex
 39th Inf Regt, Ft Bragg, NC
 41st Inf Regt (Armored), Ft Benning, Ga
 43d  Inf Regt (Philippine Scouts), PI
 45th Inf Regt (Philippine Scouts), Ft Wm McKinley, PI
 46th Inf Regt (Armored), Ft Knox, Ky
 47th Inf Regt, Ft Bragg, NC
 51st Inf Regt (Armored), Pine Cp, NY
 53d  Inf Regt, Ft Ord, Calif
 57th Inf Regt (Philippine Scouts), Ft Wm McKinley, PI
 60th Inf Regt, Ft Bragg, NC
 63d  Inf Regt, Ft Leonard Wood, Mo
 65th Inf Regt (Puerto Rican), Ft Miles, PR
 71st Inf Regt NY NG, Ft Dix, NJ
 87th Inf Mountain Regt, Ft Lewis, Wash
 89th Inf Regt, Ft Snelling, Minn (Co I & K in Bermuda)
101st Inf Regt, Mass NG, Cp Edwards, Mass
102d  Inf Regt, Conn NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
103d  Inf Regt, Me NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
104th Inf Regt, Mass NG, Cp Edwards, Mass
105th Inf Regt, NY NG, Ft McClellan, Ala
106th Inf Regt, NY NG, Ft McClellan, Ala
108th Inf Regt, NY NG, Ft McClellan, Ala
109th Inf Regt, Pa NG, Indiantown Gap Mil Res, Pa
110th Inf Regt, Pa NG, Indiantown Gap Mil Res, Pa
111th Inf Regt, Pa NG, Indiantown Gap Mil Res, Pa
112th Inf Regt, Pa NG, Indiantown Gap Mil Res, Pa
113th Inf Regt, NJ NG, Ft Dix, NJ
114th Inf Regt, NJ NG, Ft Dix, NJ
115th Inf Regt, Md NG, Ft George G Meade, Md
116th Inf Regt, Va NG, Ft George G Meade, Md
117th Inf Regt, Tenn NG, Ft Jackson, SC
118th Inf Regt, SC NG, Ft Jackson, SC
120th Inf Regt, NC NG, Ft Jackson, SC
121st Inf Regt, Ga NG, Ft Jackson, SC
124th Inf Regt, Fla NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
125th Inf Regt, Mich NG, Cp Livingston, La
126th Inf Regt, Mich NG, Cp Livingston, La
127th Inf Regt, Mich NG, Cp Livingston, La
128th Inf Regt, Wisc NG, Cp Livingston, La
129th Inf Regt, Ill NG, Cp Forrest, Tenn
130th Inf Regt, Ill NG, Cp Forrest, Tenn
131st Inf Regt, Ill NG, Cp Forrest, Tenn
132d  Inf Regt, Ill NG, Cp Forrest, Tenn
133d  Inf Regt, Iowa NG, Cp Claiborne, La
134th Inf Regt, Neb NG, Cp Joseph T Robinson, Ark
135th Inf Regt, Minn NG, Cp Claiborne, La
137th Inf Regt, Kans NG, Cp Joseph T Robinson, Ark
138th Inf Regt, Mo NG, Cp Joseph T Robinson, Ark
140th Inf Regt, Mo NG, Cp Joseph T Robinson, Ark
141st Inf Regt, Tex NG, Cp Bowie, Tex
142d  Inf Regt, Tex NG, Cp Bowie, Tex
143d  Inf Regt, Tex NG, Cp Bowie, Tex
144th Inf Regt, Tex NG, Cp Bowie, Tex
145th Inf Regt, Ohio NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
147th Inf Regt, Ohio NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
148th Inf Regt, Ohio NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
149th Inf Regt, Ky NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
150th Inf Regt, WV NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
151st Inf Regt, Ind NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
152d  Inf Regt, Ind NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
153d  Inf Regt, Ark NG, Cp Murray, Wash
155th Inf Regt, Miss NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
156th Inf Regt, La NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
157th Inf Regt, Colo NG, Cp Barkeley, Tex
158th Inf Regt, Ark NG, Ft Sill, Okla
159th Inf Regt (Motorized), Calif NG, Ft Ord, Calif
160th Inf Regt, Calif NG, Cp San Luis Obispo, Calif
161st Inf Regt, Wash NG, Ft Lewis, Wash
162d  Inf Regt, Ore NG, Ft Lewis, Wash
163d  Inf Regt, Mont NG, Ft Lewis, Wash
164th Inf Regt, ND NG, Cp Claiborne, La
165th Inf Regt, NY NG, Ft McClellan, Ala
166th Inf Regt, Ohio NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
167th Inf Regt, Ala NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
168th Inf Regt, Iowa NG, Cp Claiborne, La
169th Inf Regt, Conn NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
172d  Inf Regt, Vt NG, Cp Blanding, Fla
174th Inf Regt, NY NG, Ft Dix, NJ
175th Inf Regt, Md NG, Ft George G Meade, Md
176th Inf Regt, Va NG, Ft George G Meade, Md
179th Inf Regt, Okla NG, Cp Barkeley, Tex
180th Inf Regt, Okla NG, Cp Barkeley, Tex
181st Inf Regt, Mass NG, Cp Edwards, Mass
182d  Inf Regt, Mass NG, Cp Edwards, Mass
184th Inf Regt, Calif NG, Cp San Luis Obispo, Calif
185th Inf Regt, Calif NG, Cp San Luis Obispo, Calif
186th Inf Regt, Ore NG, Ft Lewis, Wash
201st Inf Regt, WV NG, Kodia, TA
295th Inf Regt (Puerto Rican), PR NG, Cp Tortuguero, PR
296th Inf Regt (Puerto Rican), PR NG, Cp Tortuguero, PR
297th Inf Regt, Alaska NG, Ft Richardson, TA
298th Inf Regt, Hawaii NG, Schofield Barracks, TH
299th Inf Regt, Hawaii NG, Schofield Barracks, TH
366th Inf Regt (Colored), Ft Devens, Mass
367th Inf Regt (Colored), Cp Claiborne, La
368th Inf Regt (Colored), Ft Huachuca, Ariz
372d  Inf Regt (Colored), Ohio, New Jersey, Mass, Maryland & DC NG, Ft Dix, NJ
434th Inf Regt, Ft Jackson, SC

Infantry Battalions
-------------------
 88th Airborne Inf Bn, Ft Benning, Ga
 93d  Inf Antitank Bn, Ft Benning, Ga
 94th Inf Antitank Bn, Ft Benning, Ga
 99th Inf Antitank Bn, Ft Lewis, Wash
101st Inf Antitank Bn, NY NG, Ft Benning, Ga
102d  Inf Antitank Bn, NY NG, Cp Shelby, Miss
103d  Inf Antitank Bn, Wash NG, Ft Lewis, Wash
104th Inf Antitank Bn, NM NG, Cp San Luis Obispo, Calif
105th Inf Antitank Bn, Pa NG, Ft George G Meade, Md
501st Parchute Bn, Ft Benning, Ga
502d  Parchute Inf Bn, Ft Benning, Ga
503d  Parchute Inf Bn, Ft Benning, Ga
504th Parchute Inf Bn, Ft Benning, Ga
550th Airborne Inf Bn, Howard Field, CZ

Chemical Mortar Battaions
-------------------------
1st Chemical Mortar Bn, Co A, TH
2d  Chemical Mortar Bn, Edgewood Arsenal, Md


IX. UNITS SORTED BY LOCATION
----------------------------

ALABAMA: Ft McClellan, Anniston
-------
 VII Army Corps
 27th Div, NY NG
102d  Engrs (Combat), NY NG
 52d  FA Bde, NY NG
104th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), NY NG
105th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), NY NG
106th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), NY NG
 53d  Inf Bde, NY NG
 53d  Inf Bde, NY NG
105th Inf Regt, NY NG
106th Inf Regt, NY NG
108th Inf Regt, NY NG
165th Inf Regt, NY NG

ARIZONA: Ft Huachuca, Tombstone
-------
 25th Inf Regt (Colored)
368th Inf Regt (Colored)

ARKANSAS: Cp Joseph T Robinson, Little Rock
--------
 35th Engr Combat Regt
 43d  Engr Regt (General Service)
110th Engrs (Combat), Mo NG
 60th FA Bde, Kans NG
123d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Ill NG
127th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Kans NG
130th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Kans NG
161st FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Kans NG
 69th Inf Bde, Nebraska & Kans NG
 70th Inf Bde, Mo NG
134th Inf Regt, Neb NG
137th Inf Regt, Kans NG
138th Inf Regt, Mo NG
140th Inf Regt, Mo NG

CALIFORNIA
----------
Cp Haan, Riverside
  101st CA  Bde (AA), Minn NG
Cp Roberts, San Miguel
  30th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn)
  40th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn)
Cp San Luis Obispo, San Luis Obispo
  40th Div, Calif NG
 115th Engrs (Combat), Utah NG
  65th FA Bde, Utah NG
 143d  FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Calif NG
 145th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Utah NG
 222d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Utah NG
  79th Inf Bde, Calif NG
  80th Inf Bde, Calif NG
 160th Inf Regt, Calif NG
 184th Inf Regt, Calif NG
 185th Inf Regt, Calif NG
 104th Inf Antitank Bn, NM NG
Cp Seeley, El Centro
  11th Cav Regt (Horse)
Ft Cronkhite, San Francisco
  56th CA  Regt (155mm Gun) (Mobile)
  57th CA  Regt (155mm Gun) (Mobile) less Battery B
Ft MacArthur, San Pedro
  Harbor Defenses of Los Angeles
   3d  CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A)
  78th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
Ft Ord, Monterey
   7th Div
  35th Div, Neb NG
  19th Engr Combat Regt
  47th Engr General Service Regt
  13th Engr Combat Bn
  31st FA Bn (155mm How Tractor-Drawn)
  48th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
  49th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
  57th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
  74th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
  75th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor-Drawn)
  17th Inf Regt
  32d  Inf Regt (Motorized)
  53d  Inf Regt
 159th Inf Regt (Motorized), Calif NG
 757th Tank Bn (Light)
Ft Rosecrans, San Diego
  Harbor Defenses of San Diego
   19th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A)
  625th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense)
Ft Winfield Scott, San Francisco
  Harbor Defenses of San Francisco
  6th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type C)
Los Angeles
  37th CA  Bde (AA)
  65th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
March Field, Riverside
  808th Engr Aviation Bn
Oakland
  217th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Minn NG
Presidio of Monterey, Monterey
  III Army Coprs
Presidio of San Francisco, San Francisco
  Fourth Army
  216th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Minn NG

COLORADO: Ft Logan, Denver
--------
2d  Engr Combat Bn
7th Engr Combat Bn

DELAWARE
--------
Ft Dupont, Delaware City
  21st CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B)
   1st Engr Combat Bn
  27th Engr Bn (Combat)
Ft Miles, Lewes
  Harbor Defenses of Delaware

FLORIDA
-------
Cp Blanding, Starke
   31st Div, Ala NG
   43d  Div, Conn NG
   45th Engr General Service Regt (Colored)
  106th Engrs (Combat), Miss NG
  118th Engrs (Combat), RI NG
   97th Engr Bn (Separate) (Colored)
   56th FA Bde, Fla NG
   68th FA Bde, RI NG
   74th FA Bde, Ga NG
   35th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized)
  103d  FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), RI NG
  114th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Miss NG
  116th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Fla NG
  117th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Ala NG
  128th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Mo NG
  152d  FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Me NG
  172d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), NH NG
  179th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Ga NG
  192d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Conn NG
   61st Inf Bde, La NG
   62d  Inf Bde, Alabama & Fla NG
   85th Inf Bde, Conn NG
   86th Inf Bde, Vermont & Me NG
  102d  Inf Regt, Conn NG
  169th Inf Regt, Conn NG
  103d  Inf Regt, Me NG
  124th Inf Regt, Fla NG
  155th Inf Regt, Miss NG
  156th Inf Regt, La NG
  167th Inf Regt, Ala NG
  172d  Inf Regt, Vermont NG
Ft Barrancas, Pensacola
  Harbor Defenses of Pensacola
  13th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A)
Ft Taylor, Key West
  Harbor Defenses of Key West
MacDill Field, Tampa
  810th Engr Aviation Bn (Colored)

GEORGIA
-------
Cp Stewart, Hinesville
   38th CA  Bde (AA)
  102d  CA  Bde (AA), NY NG
   70th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
  207th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), NY NG
  209th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), NY NG
  212th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), NY NG
  213th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Pa NG
  214th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ga NG
  252d  CA  Regt (155mm Gun) (Mobile), NC NG
Ft Benning, Columbus
  IV Army Corps
    2d  Armored Div
    4th Motorized Div
   88th Airborne Inf Bn
    2d  Armored Bde
   17th Armored Engr Bn
   66th Armored Regt (Light)
   67th Armored Regt (Medium)
   68th Armored Regt (Light)
   78th Armored FA Bn
   20th Engr Combat Regt
    4th Engr Combat Bn
   87th Engr Heavy Ponton Bn
   14th FA Regt (105mm How) (Armored)
   20th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor-Drawn)
   29th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
   42d  FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
    8th Inf Regt
   12th Inf Regt
   22d  Inf Regt
   24th Inf Regt (Colored)
   29th Inf Regt
   41st Inf Regt (Armored)
   93d  Inf Antitank Bn
   94th Inf Antitank Bn
  101st Inf Antitank Bn, NY NG
  501st Parchute Bn
  502d  Parchute Inf Bn
  503d  Parchute Inf Bn
  504th Parchute Inf Bn
   82d  Rcn Bn (Armored)
  193d  Tank Bn (Light) (Co A=Ga NG; Co B=Ala NG; Co C=Tex NG;
        Co D=Colo NG)
  751st Tank Bn (Medium)
  753d  Tank Bn (Medium)

ILLINOIS
--------
Chicago: Second Army
Ft Sheridan, Highwood
 VI Army Corps
 40th CA  Bde (AA)
 61st CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
210th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Mich NG

IOWA: Ft Des Moines, Des Moines
----
80th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor-Drawn)

KANSAS: Ft Riley, Junction City
------
 2d  Cav Div (Horse)
 3d  Cav Bde
 4th Cav Bde (Colored)
 2d  Cav Regt (Horse)
 9th Cav Regt (Horse) (Colored)
10th Cav Regt (Horse) (Colored)
14th Cav Regt (Horse)
 9th Engr Combat Squadron
 3d  FA Bn (75mm How Horse-Drawn)

KENTUCKY: Ft Knox, Louisville
--------
 I Armored Corps
  1st Armored Div
  5th Armored Div
  5th Armored Bde
  1st Armored Regt (Light)
 13th Armored Regt (Light)
 31st Armored Regt (Light)
 34th Armored Regt (Light)
 69th Armored Regt (Medium)
 81st Armored Regt (Medium)
 16th Armored Engr Bn
 22d  Armored Engr Bn
 58th Armored FA Bn
 86th Engr Heavy Ponton Bn
 65th FA Regt (105mm How) (Armored)
 68th FA Regt (105mm How) (Armored)
 19th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
 21st FA Bn (155mm How Tractor-Drawn)
 27th FA Bn (Armored)
 46th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
 50th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
  6th Inf Regt (Armored)
 46th Inf Regt (Armored)
 81st Rcn Bn (Armored)
 85th Rcn Bn (Armored)
758th Tank Bn (Light) (Colored)
759th Tank Bn (Light)

LOUISIANA
---------
Cp Beauregard, Alexandria
  V Army Corps
  40th Armored Regt (Medium)
  23d  Armored Engr Bn
  88th Engr Heavy Ponton Bn
  54th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
  83d  Rcn Bn (Armored)
Cp Claiborne, Alexandria
   34th Div, Iowa NG
  109th Engrs (Combat), SD NG
  151st Engrs (Combat), Ala NG less 1st Bn
   59th FA Bde, Minn NG
  125th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Minn NG
  151st FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Minn NG
  185th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Iowa NG
   67th Inf Bde, Iowa NG
   68th Inf Bde, Minnesota & ND NG
  133d  Inf Regt, Iowa NG
  135th Inf Regt, Minn NG
  164th Inf Regt, ND NG
  168th Inf Regt, Iowa NG
  367th Inf Regt (Colored)
Cp Livingston, Alexandria
   32d  Div, Mich NG
  106th Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), Ill NG
  107th Engrs (Combat), Mich NG
   80th Engr Water Supply Bn
   93d  Engr Bn (Separate) (Colored)
   46th FA Bde (Colored)
   57th FA Bde, Wisc NG
  120th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Wisc NG
  121st FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Wisc NG
  126th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Wisc NG
  350th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized) (Colored)
  351st FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized) (Colored)
  353d  FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized) (Colored)
   63d  Inf Bde, Mich NG
   64th Inf Bde, Wisc NG
  125th Inf Regt, Mich NG
  126th Inf Regt, Mich NG
  127th Inf Regt, Mich NG
  128th Inf Regt, Wisc NG
Cp Polk, Leesville
   3d  Armored Div
   3d  Armored Bde
  32d  Armored Regt (Light)
  33d  Armored Regt (Light)
  67th FA Regt (105mm How) (Armored)
  36th Inf Regt (Armored)

MAINE
-----
Ft McKinley, Great Diamond Island
  240th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), Me NG
Ft Preble, South Portland
  8th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B)
Ft Williams, Cape Elizabeth
  Harbor Defenses of Portland

MARYLAND
--------
Edgewood Arsenal
   2d  Chemical Mortar Bn
  99th FA Bn (75mm How, Pack)
Ft George G Meade, Baltimore
  29th Div, DC NG
 121st Engrs (Combat), DC NG
  54th FA Bde, Va NG
 110th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Md NG
 111th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Va NG
 176th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Pa NG
  58th Inf Bde, Md NG
  88th Inf Bde, Va NG
 115th Inf Regt, Md NG
 116th Inf Regt, Va NG
 175th Inf Regt, Md NG
 176th Inf Regt, Va NG
 105th Inf Antitank Bn, Pa NG
   1st Tank Gp
  70th Tank Bn (Light)
 191st Tank Bn (Light) (Co A=NY NG; Co B=Mass NG; Co C=Virginia
       NG; Co D=Conn NG)

MASSACHUSETTS
-------------
Cp Edwards, Falmouth
   26th Div, Mass NG
   36th CA  Bde (AA)
   68th CA  Regt (AA) (Mobile)
  208th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Conn NG
  369th CA  Regt (AA) (Colored), NY NG
  101st Engrs (Combat), Mass NG
   51st FA Bde, Mass NG
  101st FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Mass NG
  102d  FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Mass NG
  180th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Mass NG
   51st Inf Bde, Mass NG
   52d  Inf Bde, Mass NG
  101st Inf Regt, Mass NG
  104th Inf Regt, Mass NG
  181st Inf Regt, Mass NG
  182d  Inf Regt, Mass NG
Ft Andrews, Boston
  241st CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type C), Mass NG
Ft Banks, Winthrop
  Harbor Defenses of Boston
  9th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A)
Ft Devens, Ayr
    1st Div
  101st Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), NY NG
   16th Inf Regt
   18th Inf Regt
   26th Inf Regt
  366th Inf Regt (Colored)
Ft Rodman, New Bedford
  Harbor Defenses of New Bedford
  23d  CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type D)
  23d Separate CA  Bn (Harbor Defense)
Westover Field, Chicopee Falls
  809th Engr Aviation Bn

MICHIGAN: Ft Custer, Battle Creek
--------
  5th Div
 94th Engr Bn (Separate) (Colored)
184th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn) (Colored), Ill NG
  2d  Inf Regt
 11th Inf Regt less Cos in Bermuda & Trinidad

MINNESOTA: Ft Snelling, St. Paul
---------
 3d  Inf Regt less 1st Bn
89th Inf Regt less Co I & K

MISSISSIPPI: Cp Shelby, Hattiesburg
-----------
 37th Div, Ohio NG
 38th Div, Ind NG
 42d  Engr General Service Regt
112th Engrs (Combat), Ohio NG
113th Engrs (Combat), Ind NG
 91st Engr Bn (Separate) (Colored)
 62d  FA Bde, Ohio NG
 63d  FA Bde, Ky NG
 73d  FA Bde, Pa NG
134th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Ohio NG
135th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Ohio NG
136th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Ohio NG
138th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Ky NG
139th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Ind NG
140th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), La NG
150th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Ind NG
166th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Pa NG
190th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized), Pa NG
 73d  Inf Bde, Ohio NG
 74th Inf Bde, Ohio NG
 75th Inf Bde, Ky NG
 76th Inf Bde, Ind NG
145th Inf Regt, Ohio NG
147th Inf Regt, Ohio NG
148th Inf Regt, Ohio NG
166th Inf Regt, Ohio NG
149th Inf Regt, Ky NG
150th Inf Regt, WV NG
151st Inf Regt, Ind NG
152d  Inf Regt, Ind NG
102d  Inf Antitank Bn, NY NG

MISSOURI: Ft Leonard Wood, Rolla
--------
  6th Div
 89th Engr Heavy Ponton Bn
 92d  Engr Bn (Separate) (Colored)
 72d  FA Bde, Mich NG
119th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized), Mich NG
177th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Mich NG
182d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Mich NG
  1st Inf Regt
 20th Inf Regt
 63d  Inf Regt

NEW HAMPSHIRE
-------------
Cp Langdon, New Castle
  Harbor Defenses of Portsmouth
Ft Constitution, New Castle
  22d  CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B)

NEW JERSEY
----------
Ft Dix, Wrightstown
   44th Div, NJ NG
  104th Engrs (Combat), NJ NG
   69th FA Bde, NJ NG
  156th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), NY NG
  157th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), NJ NG
  165th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), NJ NG
   57th Inf Bde, NJ NG
   87th Inf Bde, NY NG
   71st Inf Regt NY NG
  113th Inf Regt, NJ NG
  114th Inf Regt, NJ NG
  174th Inf Regt, NY NG
  372d  Inf Regt (Colored), Ohio, New Jersey, Mass, Maryland & DC NG
Ft Hancock, Sandy Hook
  Harbor Defenses of NY
    7th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B)
   52d  CA  Regt (Railway 8-inch Gun)
   62d  CA  Regt (AA) (Mobile)
  245th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type C), NY NG
Madison Barracks, Sackets Harbor
  258th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized), NY NG
    5th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor-Drawn)

NEW YORK
--------
Ft H.G. Wright, Fishers Island
  Harbor Defenses of Long Island Sound
  11th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B)
Ft Hamilton, NY City
  Harbor Defenses of Southern NY
  5th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A)
Ft Jay, Governor's Island, New York City
  First Army
  II Army Corps
Ft Ontario, Oswego
  198th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Del NG
Ft Terry, Plum Island
  242d  CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), Conn NG
Ft Totten, NY City
  Harbor Defenses of Eastern NY
Pine Cp, Watertown
    4th Armored Div
    4th Armored Bde
   35th Armored Regt (Light)
   37th Armored Regt (Light)
   24th Armored Engr Bn
   66th FA Regt (105mm How) (Armored)
  111th Engrs (Combat), Tex NG
   22d  FA Bn (Armored)
   51st Inf Regt (Armored)
    4th Rcn Bn (Armored)
  754th Tank Bn (Medium)
Plattsburg Barracks, Plattsburg
  36th Engr Combat Regt
US Military Academy, West Point
  US Military Academy Cav Squadron (Colored)

NORTH CAROLINA
--------------
Cp Davis, Wilmington
   17th CA  Training Gp
   18th CA  Training Gp
   54th CA  Regt (155mm Gun) (Mobile) (Colored)
   93d  CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
   94th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
   95th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
   96th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
   99th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile) (Colored)
  100th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile) (Colored)
  302d  CA  Barrage Balloon Bn
  303d  CA  Barrage Balloon Bn
  304th CA  Barrage Balloon Bn
  305th CA  Barrage Balloon Bn
  301st Separate CA  Barrage Balloon Bn, Cp Davis, NC
Ft Bragg, Fayetteville
   Ft Bragg Provisional FA Bde
    9th Div
   34th CA  Bde (AA)
   67th CA  Regt (AA) (Mobile)
   76th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile) (Colored)
   77th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile) (Colored)
   41st Engr General Service Regt (Colored)
   15th Engr Combat Bn
   96th Engr Bn (Separate) (Colored)
   13th FA Bde
   17th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn)
   36th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized)
   47th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn)
   72d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn)
   79th FA Regt (240mm How) (Motorized)
  112th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), NJ NG
  178th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), SC NG
    2d  FA Observation Bn
    3d  FA Observation Bn
    4th FA Bn (75mm How, Pack)
    7th FA Observation Bn
    6th FA Bn (105mm How Tractor-Drawn)
   26th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
   60th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
   34th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor-Drawn)
   84th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
   97th FA Bn (75mm How, Pack)
   39th Inf Regt
   47th Inf Regt
   60th Inf Regt
Wilmington
  Harbor Defenses of Wilmington

OKLAHOMA: Ft Sill, Lawton
--------
 18th FA Bde
 18th FA Regt (Composite School Troops)
142d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Ark NG
158th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Okla NG
349th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized) (Colored)
  1st FA Bn (105mm How Tractor-Drawn)
  8th FA Observation Bn
 51st FA Bn (105mm How Tractor-Drawn)
 53d  FA Bn (105mm How Tractor-Drawn)
 83d  FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
158th Inf Regt, Ark NG

OREGON
------
Ft Stevens, Warrenton
  Harbor Defenses of Columbia River
   18th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B)
  249th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B), Ore NG
Portland
  29th Engr Bn (Topographic) (Army)
  30th Engr Bn (Topographic) (Army)

PENNSYLVANIA: Indiantown Gap Military Reservation, Indiantown Gap
------------
 28th Div, Pa NG
104th Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), Pa NG
103d  Engrs (Combat), Pa NG
 53d  FA Bde, Pa NG
107th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Pa NG
108th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Pa NG
109th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Pa NG
 55th Inf Bde, Pa NG
 56th Inf Bde, Pa NG
109th Inf Regt, Pa NG
110th Inf Regt, Pa NG
111th Inf Regt, Pa NG
112th Inf Regt, Pa NG

RHODE ISLAND
------------
Ft Adams, Newport
  Harbor Defenses of Narragansett Bay
  10th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B)
Ft Getty, Jamestown
  243d  CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), RI NG

SOUTH CAROLINA
--------------
Ft Jackson, Columbia
  I Army Corps
    8th Inf Div
   30th Div, SC NG
    1st Armored Bde
   80th Armored Regt (Medium)
  102d  Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), NJ NG
   38th Engr Regt (Combat)
  105th Engrs (Combat), NC NG
   11th Engr Combat Bn
   55th FA Bde, Ga NG
  113th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), NC NG
  115th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Tenn NG
  118th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Ga NG
   28th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor-Drawn)
   43d  FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
   45th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
   56th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
   70th FA Bn (75mm Gun Horse-Drawn)
   71st FA Bn (75mm Gun Horse-Drawn)
   59th Inf Bde, Ga NG
   60th Inf Bde, NC NG
   13th Inf Regt
   28th Inf Regt
  117th Inf Regt, Tenn NG
  118th Inf Regt, SC NG
  120th Inf Regt, NC NG
  121st Inf Regt, Ga NG
  434th Inf Regt
Ft Moultrie, Moultrieville
  Harbor Defenses of Charleston
  263d  CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B), SC NG

SOUTH DAKOTA: Ft Meade, Sturgis
------------
4th Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized)

TENNESSEE
---------
Cp Forrest, Tullahoma
   33d  Div, Ill NG
  107th Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), Ohio NG
  108th Engrs (Combat), Ill NG
   58th FA Bde, Ill NG
   75th FA Bde, Tenn NG
  122d  FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Ill NG
  124th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Ill NG
  168th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized), Colo NG
  181st FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Tenn NG
  191st FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Tenn NG
   65th Inf Bde, Ill NG
   66th Inf Bde, Ill NG
  129th Inf Regt, Ill NG
  130th Inf Regt, Ill NG
  131st Inf Regt, Ill NG
  132d  Inf Regt, Ill NG
Ft Oglethope, Chattanooga
  6th Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized)

TEXAS
-----
Cp Barkeley, Abilene
   45th Div, Okla NG
  120th Engrs (Combat), NM NG
   70th FA Bde, Okla NG
  160th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Okla NG
  189th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Okla NG
    2d  Bn, 158th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Okla NG
   89th Inf Bde, Arizona & Colo NG
   90th Inf Bde, Okla NG
  157th Inf Regt, Colo NG
  179th Inf Regt, Okla NG
  180th Inf Regt, Okla NG
Cp Bowie, Brownwood
   36th Div, Tex NG
  113th Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), Iowa NG
   37th Engr Combat Regt
   46th Engr General Service Regt
   98th Engr Bn (Separate) (Colored)
   61st FA Bde, Tex NG
  131st FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Tex NG less 2d Bn
  132d  FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Tex NG
  133d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Tex NG
   71st Inf Bde, Tex NG
   72d  Inf Bde, Tex NG
  141st Inf Regt, Tex NG
  142d  Inf Regt, Tex NG
  143d  Inf Regt, Tex NG
  144th Inf Regt, Tex NG
  755th Tank Bn (Medium)
  760th Tank Bn (Light)
Cp Hulen, Palacios
   33d  CA  Bde (AA)
   69th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
  197th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), NH NG
  203d  CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Mo NG
  204th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), La NG
  211th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Mass NG
Ft Bliss, El Paso
  I Cavalry Corps
    1st Cav Div
    1st Cav Bde
    2d  Cav Bde
    5th Cav Regt (Horse)
    7th Cav Regt (Horse)
    8th Cav Regt (Horse)
   12th Cav Regt (Horse)
   91st Cav Rcn Squadron
   39th CA  Bde (AA)
   63d  CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
   79th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
  202d  CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ill NG
  260th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), DC NG
  423d  CA  Bn (AA-Composite) (Semimobile)
   61st FA Bn (75mm How Horse-Drawn)
   62d  FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
   82d  FA Bn (105mm How Tractor-Drawn)
Ft Brown, Brownsville
  124th Cav Regt (Horse), Tex NG
Ft Clark, Brackettville
  112th Cav Regt (Horse), Tex NG
Ft Crockett, Galveston
  Harbor Defenses of Galveston
   20th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A)
  265th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B), Fla NG
Ft D.A. Russell, Marfa
   77th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn)
Ft McIntosh, Laredo
   56th Cavlary Bde, Tex NG
    8th Engr Combat Bn
Ft Sam Houston, San Antonio
  Third Army
  VIII Army Corps
   2d  Div
  12th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor-Drawn)
  15th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
  37th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
   9th Inf Regt
  23d  Inf Regt
  38th Inf Regt

VERMONT: Ft Ethan Allen, Essex Junction
-------
 71st FA Bde, NY NG
186th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), NY NG
187th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), NY NG
  7th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
 32d  FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
 33d  FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
 38th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)

VIRGINIA
--------
Cp Pendleton, Wallaceton
   74th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
  244th CA  Regt (155mm Gun) (Mobile), NY NG
Ft Belvoir, Alexandria
  43d  Engr Regt (General Service)
  84th Army Engr Camouflage Bn
  85th Engr Heavy Ponton Bn
  95th Engr Bn (Separate) (Colored)
Ft Monroe, Suffolk
  Harbor Defenses of Chesapeake Bay
    2d  CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A)
  246th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A), Va NG
Ft Myer, Arlington
  Washington Provisional Bde
   3d  Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized)
  16th FA Bn (75mm Gun Horse-Drawn)
Ft Story, Virginia Beach
  71st CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
Langley Field, Hampton
  20th Engr Regt (Aviation)
 811th Engr Aviation Bn (Colored)

WASHINGTON
----------
Cp Murray
  206th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Ark NG
  153d  Inf Regt, Ark NG
Ft Lawton
  6th Engr Combat Bn
Ft Lewis, Tacoma
  IX Army Corps
    3d  Div
   41st Div, Ore NG
  115th Cav Regt (Horse-Mechanized), Wyo NG
  205th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Wash NG
  116th Engrs (Combat), Ida NG
   10th Engr Combat Bn
   90th Engr Heavy Ponton Bn
   66th FA Bde, Wash NG
  144th FA Regt (155mm Gun) (Motorized), Calif NG
  146th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Wash NG
  218th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Ore NG
    9th FA Bn (155mm How Trk-Drawn)
   10th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
   39th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
   41st FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
   98th FA Bn (75mm How, Pack)
   81st Inf Bde, Wash NG
   82d  Inf Bde, Ore NG
    7th Inf Regt
   15th Inf Regt
   30th Inf Regt
   87th Inf Mountain Regt
  161st Inf Regt, Wash NG
  162d  Inf Regt, Ore NG
  163d  Inf Regt, Mont NG
  186th Inf Regt, Ore NG
   99th Inf Antitank Bn
  103d  Inf Antitank Bn, Wash NG
  752d  Tank Bn (Medium)
  756th Tank Bn (Light)
  Co B, 194th Tank Bn (Light), Mo NG
Ft Worden, Port Townsend
  Harbor Defenses of Puget Sound
   14th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A)
  248th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type B), Wash NG
Vancouver Barracks, Vancouver
  18th Engr Combat Regt

WYOMING: Ft Francis E Warren, Cheyenne
-------
 76th FA Bde, Calif NG
183d  FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), Ida NG
188th FA Regt (155mm How) (Trk-Drawn), ND NG

UNKNOWN LOCATION
----------------
261st CA  Bn (Harbor Defense), Del NG
101st Separate CA  Bn (AA-Automatic Weapons), Tex NG
102d  Separate CA  Bn (AA-Automatic Weapons), NY NG
103d  Separate CA  Bn (AA-Automatic Weapons), Ky NG
104th Separate CA  Bn (AA-Automatic Weapons), Ala NG
105th Separate CA  Bn (AA-Automatic Weapons), La NG
106th Separate CA  Bn (AA-Automatic Weapons), Ky NG
107th Separate CA  Bn (AA-Automatic Weapons), SC NG
121st Separate CA  Bn (AA-Gun), Nev NG
122d  Separate CA  Bn (AA-Gun), NJ NG


OVERSEAS
^^^^^^^^

BERMUDA
-------
Harbor Defenses of Bermuda
Bty B,  57th CA  Regt (155mm Gun) (Mobile)
Cos of 11th Inf Regt
Cos I & K, 89th Inf Regt

BRITISH WEST INDIES: Trinidad
-------------------
Harbor Defenses of Trinidad
Cos of 11th Inf Regt

CANAL ZONE
----------
Atlantic CA  Bde
Harbor Defenses of Balboa
Harbor Defenses of Cristobal
Pacific CA  Bde
550th Airborne Inf Bn
 87th Armored FA Bn
  1st CA  Regts (Harbor Defense) (Type C)
  4th CA  Regts (Harbor Defense) (Type C)
 72d  CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
 73d  CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
 82d  CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
 83d  CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
805th Engr Aviation Bn
 11th Engr Combat Regt
  2d  FA Bn (105mm How Tractor-Drawn)
  5th Inf Regt
 14th Inf Regt
 33d  Inf Regt

ICELAND
-------
 5th Engr Combat Regt
10th Inf Regt

NEWFOUNDLAND
------------
Harbor Defenses of Argentia and St John's
Bty C, 57th CA  Regt (155mm Gun) (Mobile)
Btys,  62d  CA  Regt (AA) (Mobile)
421st CA  Bn (AA-Composite) (Semimobile)
1st Bn, 3d  Inf Regt

PHILIPPINE ISLANDS
------------------
Philippine Div
Harbor Defenses of Manila & Subic Bays
Provisional CA  Bn (155mm Gun) (Philippine Scouts)
  1st Provisional Tank Gp
 26th Cav Regt (Horse) (Philippine Scouts)
 59th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense)
 60th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
 91st CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Philippine Scouts)
 92d  CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Philippine Scouts)
200th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), NM NG
 14th Engr Regt (Combat) (Philippine Scouts)
803d  Engr Aviation Bn
 23d  FA Regt (2.95-inch Gun) (Pack) (Philippine Scouts)
 24th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn) (Philippine Scouts)
 88th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Philippine Scouts)
 86th FA Bn (155mm How) (Philippine Scouts)
 31st Inf Regt, Manila, PI
 43d  Inf Regt (Philippine Scouts)
 45th Inf Regt (Philippine Scouts)
 57th Inf Regt (Philippine Scouts)
192d  Tank Bn (Light) (Co A=Wisc NG; Co B=Ill NG; Co C=Ohio NG; Co D=Ky NG)
Co A & C, 194th Tank Bn (Light), PI (Co A=Minn NG; Co C=Calif NG)

PUERTO RICO
-----------
Harbor Defenses of San Juan
253d  CA  Regt (155mm Gun) (Mobile), PR NG
130th Engrs (Combat), PR NG
162d  FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), PR NG
 25th FA Bn (105mm How Trk-Drawn)
 92d  Inf Bde, PR NG
 65th Inf Regt (Puerto Rican)
295th Inf Regt (Puerto Rican), PR NG
296th Inf Regt (Puerto Rican), PR NG
123d  Separate CA  Bn (AA-Gun), PR NG
  1st Bn, 78th Engr Combat Regt

TERRITORY OF ALASKA
-------------------
 75th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
215th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Minn NG
250th CA  Regt (155mm Gun) (Mobile), Calif NG
802d  Engr Aviation Bn
 81st FA Bn (155mm How Tractor-Drawn)
  4th Inf Regt
 37th Inf Regt
201st Inf Regt, WV NG
297th Inf Regt, Alaska NG
  1st Bn, 151st Engrs (Combat), Ala NG

TERRITORY OF HAWAII
-------------------
Harbor Defenses of Honolulu
Hawaiian Separate CA  Bde
 24th Inf Div
 25th Inf Div
 53d  CA  Bde (AA)
 15th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A)
 16th CA  Regt (Harbor Defense) (Type A)
 64th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
 97th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
 98th CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile)
251st CA  Regt (AA) (Semimobile), Calif NG
804th Engr Aviation Bn
 34th Engr Combat Regt
  3d  Engr Combat Bn
 65th Engr Combat Bn
  8th FA Bn (105mm How Tractor-Drawn)
 11th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor-Drawn)
 13th FA Bn (105mm How Tractor-Drawn)
 52d  FA Bn (105mm How Tractor-Drawn)
 63d  FA Bn (105mm How Tractor-Drawn)
 64th FA Bn (105mm How Tractor-Drawn)
 89th FA Bn (105mm How Tractor-Drawn)
 90th FA Bn (155mm How Tractor-Drawn)
 19th Inf Regt
 21st Inf Regt
 27th Inf Regt
 35th Inf Regt
298th Inf Regt, Hawaii NG
299th Inf Regt, Hawaii NG
Co A, 1st Chemical Mortar Bn, Co A

UNITS ENROUTE US TO PHILIPPINE ISLANDS
--------------------------------------
 26th FA Bde
 34th Inf Regt
147th FA Regt (105mm How) (Trk-Drawn), SD NG
148th FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Ida NG
  2d Bn, 131st FA Regt (75mm Gun) (Trk-Drawn), Tex NG

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

07/0223Z DEC

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:23:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: 7 DEC 41: US Army Air Forces units worldwide

This post outlines the combat organization of the US Army Air Forces (USAAF)
on 7 Dec 41.

In the Zone of Interior (ZI), all USAAF combat units were under the Air Force
Combat Command.  The major units were four air forces, the 1st covering the
northeastern US, the 2d covering the northwestern US, the 3d covering the
southeastern US and the 4th covering the southwestern US, and the V Air
Support Command which supported the five Army armored divisions.

Each of the four air forces had three major subordinate units, an air support
command, a bomber command and an interceptor command.  The air support command
was intended to be a tactical unit consisting of bombardment groups/squadrons
(light) with attack aircraft like the Douglas A-20. Also assigned to this
command were observation squadrons because the Army still thought that light
aircraft providing visual reconnaissance and hand held cameras were useful.

The bombardment command contained the medium and heavy bomber groups/squadrons
and was intended as a strategic force. Attached to the bomber command was a
reconnaissance squadron per bombardment group. These squadrons were
reassigned to the group in Feb 42.

The interceptor command contained pursuit groups/squadrons. This latter
command and all subordinate units were redesignated fighter command/wings/
groups/squadrons on 15 May 42 although they still flew pursuit aircraft, e.g.,
P-51, until 1947 when the aircraft also became fighters (F-51).

The other major command in the ZI was the Office of Chief of Air Corps which
controlled transport, training, photographic and testing units. All of the
transport units listed in this post became troop carrier units on 15 Jul 42.

The overseas USAAF units tended to resemble the ZI units although they
reported to the Army commander commanding the area they operated in.

This post is divided into six parts, i.e.:
  I. Air Force Combat Command
 II. Office Chief Of Air Corps
III. Barrage Balloon Training Center, US Army
 IV. Overseas Units
  V. Units Sorted By Station
 VI. Federalized National Guard Units



* = Attached unit

I. AIR FORCE COMBAT COMMAND, Bolling Field, DC
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
1st Air Force, Mitchel Fld, NY

  I Air Support Command, Mitchel Fld, NY
    26th Observation Gp, Providence, RI
      101st Observation Sqd, Mass NG, Otis Fld, Mass (O-46, O-47, O-49, O-59)
      152d  Observation Sqd, RI NG, Ft Devens AAFld, Mass (BC-1, O-47, O-49,
         O-52, O-58)
    45th Bombardment Gp (Light), Grenier Fld, NH
      78th Bombardment Sqd (Light) (A-20, DB-7)
      79th Bombardment Sqd (Light) (A-20, DB-7)
      80th Bombardment Sqd (Light) (A-20, DB-7)
      92d  Bombardment Sqd (Light) (A-20)
    59th Observation Gp, Pope Fld, NC
      103d  Observation Sqd, Pa NG, Harrisburg MAP, Pa (O-46, O-47, O-49, O-57)
      104th Observation Sqd, Md NG, Detrick Fld, Md (O-46, O-47, O-49, O-59)
     *119th Observation Sqd, NJ NG, Newark MAP, NJ (O-47, O-49, O-52)
      126th Observation Sqd, Wisc NG, Ft Dix AAFld, NJ (BC-1, O-46, O-49,
        O-59)
    65th Observation Gp, Owens Fld, SC
      105th Observation Sqd, Tenn NG (O-38, O-47, O-49, O-52)
      112th Observation Sqd, Ohio NG, Pope Fld, NC (O-47, O-49, O-57)
      121st Observation Sqd, DC NG (AT-6, O-38, O-46, O-47,
        O-58)
     2d Balloon Sqdn, Pope Fld, NC (various balloons)
     3d Observation Sqdn, Langley Fld, Va (O-43, O-47, O-49, O-52)

  I Bomber Command, Langley Fld, Va
     2d Bombardment Gp (Heavy), Langley Fld, Va
      20th Bombardment Sqd (Heavy) (B-17)
     *41st Reconnaissance Squadron (Heavy), Newfoundland Arpt, Nfld (B-17)
      49th Bombardment Sqd (Heavy), ground echelon enroute to Newfoundland, air
        echelon at Mitchel Fld, NY (B-17)
      96th Bombardment Sqd (Heavy) (B-17)
    22d Bombardment Gp (Medium), Langley Fld, Va
       2d  Bombardment Sqd (Medium) (B-26)
     *18th Reconnaissance Squadron (Medium) (B-26)
      19th Bombardment Sqd (Medium) (B-26)
      33d  Bombardment Sqd (Medium) (B-26)
    34th Bombardment Gp, (Heavy), Westover Fld, Mass
      *1st Reconnaissance Sqd (Heavy) (B-17)
       4th Bombardment Sqd (Heavy) (B-17)
       7th Bombardment Sqd (Heavy) (B-17)
      18th Bombardment Sqd (Heavy) (B-17)
    43d Bombardment Gp (Heavy), Dow Fld, Maine
     *13th Reconnaissance Sqd (Heavy) (B-18)
      63d  Bombardment Sqd (Heavy) (LB-30)
      64th Bombardment Sqd (Heavy) (B-18)
      65th Bombardment Sqd (Heavy) (B-17)

  I Interceptor Command, Mitchel Fld, NY
    1st Pursuit Gp (Fighter), Selfridge Fld, Mich
      27th Pursuit Sqd (Fighter) (P-38)
      71st Pursuit Sqd (Fighter) (P-38)
      94th Pursuit Sqd (Fighter) (P-38)
    8th Pursuit Gp (Interceptor), Mitchel Fld, NY
      35th Pursuit Sqd (Interceptor) (P-39)
      36th Pursuit Sqd (Interceptor) (P-39)
    31st Pursuit Gp (Interceptor), Baer Fld, Ind
      39th Pursuit Sqd (Interceptor) (P-39)
      40th Pursuit Sqd (Interceptor) (P-39)
      41st Pursuit Sqd (Interceptor) (P-39)
    33d Pursuit Gp (Interceptor), Mitchel Fld, NY
      58th Pursuit Sqd (Interceptor) (P-40)
      59th Pursuit Sqd (Interceptor) (P-40)
      60th Pursuit Sqd (Interceptor) (P-40)
    52d Pursuit Gp (Interceptor), Selfridge Fld, Mich
       2d  Pursuit Sqd (Interceptor) (P-40)
       4th Pursuit Sqd (Interceptor) (P-40)
       5th Pursuit Sqd (Interceptor) (P-40)
    57th Pursuit Gp (Interceptor), Bradley Fld, Conn
      64th Pursuit Sqd (Interceptor) (P-40)
      65th Pursuit Sqd (Interceptor) (P-40), Brainard Fld, Conn
      66th Pursuit Sqd (Interceptor) (P-40), Brainard Fld, Conn

2d Air Force, Ft Geo Wright, Wash

  II Air Support Command, Will Rogers Fld, Okla
    12th Bombardment Gp (Light), McChord Fld, Wash
      81st Bombardment Sqd (Light) (B-18)
      82d  Bombardment Sqd (Light) (B-18, PT-17)
      83d  Bombardment Sqd (Light) (B-18, B-23)
      94th Bombardment Sqd (Light) (B-18, B-23)
    48th Bombardment Gp (Light), Will Rogers Fld, Okla
      55th Bombardment Sqd (Light) (A-20)
      56th Bombardment Sqd (Light) (A-20)
      57th Bombardment Sqd (Light) (A-20)
      88th Bombardment Sqd (Light) (A-20)
    72d Observation Gp, Adams Fld, Ark
        1st Observation Sqd, Marshall Fld, Kans (O-47, O-49)
      108th Observation Sqd, Ill NG, Chicago MAP, Ill (O-31, O-47, O-49, O-52)
      124th Observation Sqd, Iowa NG, Sherman Fld, Kans (BC-1, O-38, O-47)
    30th Observation Sqd, Atlanta AAB, Ga (O-38, O-49)

  II Bomber Command, Ft Geo Wright, Wash
    17th Bombardment Gp (Medium), Pendleton AAB, Ore
      34th Bombardment Sqd (Medium) (B-25)
      37th Bombardment Sqd (Medium) (B-25)
     *89th Reconnaissance Sqd (Medium) (B-25)
      95th Bombardment Sqd (Medium) (B-25)
    39th Bombardment Gp (Heavy), Geiger Fld, Wash
     *12th Reconnaissance Sqd (Heavy) (B-17)
      60th Bombardment Sqd (Heavy) (B-17)
      61st Bombardment Sqd (Heavy) (B-17)
      62d  Bombardment Sqd (Heavy) (B-17)
    42d Bombardment Gp (Medium), Gowen Fld, Idaho
     *16th Reconnaissance Sqd (Medium) (B-18, B-26)
      75th Bombardment Sqd (Medium) (B-18)
      76th Bombardment Sqd (Medium) (B-26)
      77th Bombardment Sqd (Medium) (B-26)

  II Interceptor Command, Ft Lawton, Wash
    54th Purs