Subject: WWII-L Digest - 18 Jan 1995 to 19 Jan 1995

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 00:06:42 -0500

There are 41 messages totalling 1396 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. GEN: KILLING OF GERMAN PRISONERS? (4)
  2. [INF] USAAF 19 JAN 45
  3. WEAP: Japanese Aerial Torpedoes of WWII (3)
  4. INF: 50 Years Ago - 20-JAN-1945
  5. TRIV: Pacific Armor
  6. 22d Hurtgen Epilogue (7)
  7. 50TH: HELPING THE
  8. Ops Research in WWII (2nd try)
  9. 50TH: VISIT TO LUXEMBOURG CITY
 10. Burial at Sea Prayer?
 11. Camp Custer (2)
 12. Army Museums
 13. TRV: B-29 Auxiliary Power
 14. GEN Re: Query: Swastika (2)
 15. Weap: Faulty Torpedos (2)
 16. Enola Gay at the Smithsonian. AGAIN! (3)
 17. WEAP: German Aerial Torpedoes of WWII
 18. Faulty Torpedoes
 19. MEDIA: VW Bug controversy
 20. INF: 3rd Army Chronology - 20Jan45
 21. Burial at Sea Prayer ?
 22. INF: Excerpt from _A Soldier's Story_
 23. Collaboration trial to be reopened
 24. 50TH: SMITHSONIAN AND
 25. Ref: Locations: Lobenhausen, Melsorsen, Kassel, Germany

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 18 Jan 1995 20:03:21 +0100
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN: KILLING OF GERMAN PRISONERS?

A question has been raised on the Compuserve military forum about possible
cases of US soldiers killing German prisoners.  Does anyone know any
literature on this question?

Regards, John Ausland

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 07:00:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 19 JAN 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FRIDAY, 19 JANUARY 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): 1 B-24 flies a radar ferret mission over
Shimushu and Onnekotan Islands in the Kurile Islands; 2 other B-24s hit
Matsuwa and Onnekotan Islands.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): 4 B-25s bomb Monguy, Burma and
vicinity, 5 bomb Ishan, China, and in French Indochina, 8 hit shipping and
rail targets at Song Cau, and 4 hit shipping, railroad targets, and a bridge
at Do Len. About 115 P-51s, P-40s, and P-38s on armed reconnaissance over S
China and N French Indochina attack a great variety of targets of opportunity
covering especially in the Wanting, China area.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 9 B-25s bomb troops and
stores at Na-mon and near Hsenwi; 28 fighter-bombers support ground forces in
the Si-U and Namhkam battle sectors and along the Irrawaddy River near
Yenya-u, Kyaukpyu, and Myitson; 4 others bomb a causeway in the lake at
Mogok; troops, supplies, and artillery are hit by 80+ fighter-bombers at
Tonghsim, Konghsa, Mankang, Mong Pa, Pangkawlong, Saihkao, Man Hio, Man Mao,
and other locations in N Burma. Transports complete 500+ sorties to forward
areas.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 800: 2 B-17s and 9 B-24s
drop leaflets in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany during the night.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): Bad weather cancels bomber
operations; fighters fly patrols and armed reconnaissance; the XIX Tactical
Air Command also supports elements of the US III and VIII Corps NE of
Houffalize, Belgium and around Clervaux, Luxembourg, and the 5th Infantry
Division around Bettendorf, Germany.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Yugoslavia, 400+ B-17s and
B-24s attack N and S marshalling yards, a railroad bridge, and a highway
bridge at Brod; because of overcast, only 1 of 112 bombers sent against the
Zagreb marshalling yard bombs the target while others abort; 46 P-38s bomb
the S railroad bridge at Doboj and 59 P-51s sweep from Zagreb to Gyor,
Hungary. Other P-38s fly reconnaissance missions and reconnaissance escort
and cover Mediterranean Allied Tactical Air Force (MATAF) B-25s on a supply
run.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy during the night of 18/19
Jan, A-20s bomb motor transport movements, lights, roads, and railroads
throughout the Po Valley; weather cancels medium bomber operations and
prevents fighter-bombers from completing the XXII Tactical Air Command's only
mission airborne during the day.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 7 B-24s from Saipan Island bomb harbor
installations at Chichi Jima Island; 9 from Guam Island hit airfields on Iwo
Jima Island; 7 B-24s escort photo planes over the Bonin and Kazan Islands and
1 bombs Iwo Jima; during the night, 3 B-24s on individual snooper strikes
from the Mariana Islands bomb Iwo Jima.

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force): Mission 20: 80 B-29s are dispatched to hit
the Kawasaki aircraft plant at Akashi, Japan; 62 hit the primary target and 9
others bomb alternates and targets of opportunity; they claim 4-4-8 Japanese
aircraft.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: In principal
missions of the day, B-24s and B-25s bomb La Carlota and Bacolod Airfields on
Negros Island. On Luzon Island, A-20s attack shipping at Salomague and
Callaguip and B-25s, A-20s, and fighter-bombers attack throughout Luzon,
hitting airfields, vehicles, storage areas, highways, and a variety of other
targets. HQ 433d Troop Carrier Group moves from Biak Island to Tanauan, Leyte
Island. The 70th Fighter Squadron, 18th Fighter Group, arrives at Lingayen,
Luzon Island from Sansapor, New Guinea with P-38s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

19/1158Z JAN

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 07:30:00 -0500
From:    Thoams Wildenberg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Japanese Aerial Torpedoes of WWII

I've always had a peripheral interest in the sinking of the Repulse and
Prince of Wales--an event which has often been cited in the discussions
of air power over the battleship.  I believe that the attack was carried
out by numberous twin-engined, land based torpedo bombers and was un-opposed.

Can anyone provide specifics re name and designations of aircraft, number
of torpedoes launced, number of hits etc.  Where these torpedoes the same
type as carried by the carrier borne aircraft?

Suggested sources would also be appreciated.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 04:50:41 -0800
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 20-JAN-1945

On 20-JAN-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the British 2nd Army sector, the 7th Armoured Division
reaches St Joost. The 52nd Division takes Bocket and Waldfeucht in Germany
and Echterhosch in Holland. In the U.S. 1st Army sector, the 75th Division
clears the southeast edge of Grand Bois. The 30th Division mops up to the
south edge of Bois de Born and Bois d'Emmels. The 7th Armoured Division is
attacking south toward St Vith and drives beyond Deidenberg but are unable
to take Born becuase of mines and deep snow. Patton's 3rd Army is advancing
on every front. The 11th Armoured Division moves forward establishing a
line Boeur-Wandesbourcy-Bois aux Chenes. The 17th Airborne Division
advances beyond Tavigny. Units of the 6th Armoured Division take Moinet.
The 4th Division continues attacking north of the Sauer and take Tandel.
The 5th Division captures Kippenhof and Brandenburg. Units of the 80th
DIviosn secure Burden without opposition. The 95th Division decisively
defeats counterattacks in the Saarlautern bridgehead.

In the 7th Army sector, the German salient in the Ardennes has been reduced
to a minimum and the Germans are preparing to withdraw to their original
positions along the rivers Rothbach-Rau-Moder. The 45th Division makes an
unsuccessfull attempt to reach the still encircled 3rd Battalion. Some
elements of the 3rd Battalion are able to infiltrate back to the main body.
Some troops of the 2nd Battalion escape from Drusenheim but the remainder
of the battalion are reported missing in action. The French 1st Army opens
an offensive to eliminate the Colmar Pocket, attacking with the 1st Corps
from the south. Weather conditions are very poor and progress is slow.

Eastern Front - East Prussia is being enveloped by the 2nd and 3rd White
Russian Fronts. The 2nd thrusting north toward East Prussia from Poland
gets elements across the southwest border near Tannenberg. The 3rd takes
Tilsit. The 1st White Russian and 1st Ukraine Fronts continue west in
Poland toward Germany. In the Carpathians, the 4th Ukraine Front takes Nowy
Sacz in Poland and Bardejov, Presov and Kosice in Czechoslovakia. Hard
fighting is reported in the Szekesfehervar region of Hungary, southwest of
Budapest, as the Germans attempt to break through to the Danube.

Philippines - General Krueger asks the Allied Air Forces to not bomb the
bridges south of the Agno since they are needed to speed the drive on
Manila. The 40th Division gets forward elements withing 4 miles of Tarlac.
Forward elements of the 37th Division reach Victoria, which is undefended.
In the I Corps sector, the 25th Division opens drives on Asingan and San
Manuel. Units of the 43rd Division attack Mt Alava. On Mindoro, the bulk of
the 2nd Battalion, 19th Infantry, moves to Bulalacao to destroy the
Japanese in that region in patrol actions.

Camotes - Elements of the 7th Division reconnoiter Pacijan Island without
incident.

Burma - While the official Allied convoy from Ledo is waiting at Myitkyina,
a small truck convoy led by Lt. Hugh A. Pock reaches Kunming, China, via
the Teng-chung cutoff, which has been hastily repaired but is still in very
rough condition.

The Homefront
-------------
Inauguration - President Roosevelt has been sworn in for his fourth term on
the south portico of the White House in the simplest inauguration and
before the smallest crowd on record. Harry S. Truman is sworn in as Vice
President.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 [email-masked]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 08:07:59 -0500
From:    "Matthew R. Burchette" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIV: Pacific Armor

Howdy All,
While we are on the subject of the PTO and armour does anybody have any good
sources for the tank battles in Manchuria at the end of the war? This is a
really interesting subject to me but I have found little info on it.
Thanks,
Matthew
Museum Studies Grad Student, Baylor University

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 07:31:24 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

Hello, Cassady!

Thank you very much for answering my querie.

> Terry, you probably know that the way the US reconstituted its forces was
> a disaster for morale, thus weakening the Army in the end.

    Yes, but I was just trying to put myself in the place of the
dogface and how he might find a way to accept a deplorable situation.
 Replacement
> troops were deployed singly, thus had to acclimatize to their squad, etc.
> Slightly wounded troops would become normal replacements, with no effort to
> return them to what they still considered "their units."

    Yes, but there are instances of wounded being returned to their
units, but this was not common.

 As you know, small
> units fight not for mom, apple pie, or the USA, but because their buddy, who
> they have shared experiences with, is right there next to them.

    Yes.

    Thanks again.

    All the best.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 08:33:13 EST
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 50TH: HELPING THE

On Wed, 18 Jan 1995 14:08:47 GMT-6 Robert T. Moore said:
>>It seems pretty clear that dropping the bomb,
>> as opposed to merely having it, did impress Uncle Joe & everyone else, but
>> I doubt that was the primary motivation for using it.
>
>    Certainly, but even with Truman's informing him at Potsdam in
>July 1945, along with the actual employment of the bombs themselves
>only spurred Stalin to entrust Lavrenti Beria with the development of
>their own atomic bomb program.

That's more or less what I meant by "impressed".

>And Stalin's actions in the post-war
>era didn't strike me as someone who was that "impressed" with
>what happened over Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He still did what he
>wanted to do with Eastern Europe and the Far East.

Yes and no:  didn't the Berlin blockade begin only *after* the Soviets
developed their own bomb?  Ditto the crackdown in Czechoslovakia--in short,
Soviet treatment of Europe divides into two phases, with Stalin restraining
his most overt actions until after he had a bomb of his own.  We have some
Soviet specialists on the list, yes?  Some input here?

ken koester
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 08:39:37 EST
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

On Wed, 18 Jan 1995 14:12:14 GMT-6 Robert T. Moore said:
>Hello, again, Ken!
>
>A very thought-provoking response!

Hello, Terry, and thanx!
>
>    However, didn't the American infantrymen, at least consider that
>he would be relieved in the line, if he survived that long, because
>we also tended to reconstitute forces pulled out of the line for rest
>and replenishment which also meant replacements?

That's what I'm asking about, I guess.  What I had always gathered was
that the Soviets used up divisions like rounds of ammunition, the Germans
pulled them out at cadre-size for several months for complete reconstitution,
and the US left them in the line and fed replacements in a steady stream.
As we've read in the Huertgen accounts, and notwithstanding that units
might be pulled out from time to time for rest & refit.  The idea is that
combat is no time to be absorbing replacements.  But what I'm asking for
is studies of what the actual policies/effects were, rather than what I
have the impression of (-:

ken koester
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:27:00 EST
From:    "Eliot K. Friedman" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ops Research in WWII (2nd try)

    In response to Cassady's query...

    I don't know if this is what you were looking for, but here are two
    instances:

    I learned in a Math Stat and Ops Research course that the Allies were
    able to accurately determine German tank production by analysis of the
    serial numbers (sequentially assigned) of destroyed units.  It's
    analogous to the problem of having a bag with balls numbered 1 to n,
    where you determine n by picking balls out of the bag randomly.  I can
    provide the name of the textbook, which might mention a primary
    reference.

    The Allied bombing campaign's targetting of German ball bearing
    production was inspired by Ops Research analysis, which determined that
    this was the industrial choke point for much war production.  Any book
    about the Schweinfurt raid should refer to the reason it was targetted.

    An employee of my father's can give firsthand confirmation as to the
    effectiveness of the ball bearing campaign.  He is a concentration camp
    survivor who participated in aircrash salvage work.  The Germans were
    recovering and re-using ball bearings from downed planes.  The
    prisoners were discouraged from damaging recovered ball bearings in the
    most extreme fashion.

    El

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:09:21 +0100
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: 50TH: VISIT TO LUXEMBOURG CITY

  As readers of the excerpts I have been posting from LETTERS HOME
know, I took full advantage of lulls in the fighting to have some fun.
While in Luxembourg, this consisted of a brief visit to Luxembourg
City with two of my buddies.  Here is the report on this experience
that I sent to my parents:

          A ONE DAY PASS TO LUXEMBOURG CITY

          Many letters have been rolling in. Now that we have
          completed our latest attack, it is possible to write to you all.
          Our last operation was a river crossing, as you no doubt
          know. This is a very difficult and risky maneuver. However,
          we were quite fortunate, lucky, and quite successful.

          Last evening Capt. Joe Gude, commander of C Company, Lt.
          Bill Woodruff, his executive officer, and I got together and
          made a trip to Luxembourg City. As always, we had an
          excellent time, real fun and relaxation. These are great boys.
          Woody has been with us since D-day, twice wounded. Gude
          (pronounced Goody) joined us at Cherbourg, has been
          wounded once, has the Silver Star with two oak leave
          clusters. I always feel proud to be in their company.

          We got into the city about 14:00. There were a few bad
          hours when we were trying to find a place to sleep.
          However, by five we not only had a very nice room in a
          private home but dates with Red Cross girls for the evening.

          How we got the room is cause for a story. You see, in any
          such city as this all the hotels are taken over by the army.
          If you are on orders, its OK. On pass, it's a different matter.
          So - we tried everything. We were driving by a group of
          houses, and I suggested, "Surely in such a place of this size
          there must be a place where we can stay."

          Just then an elderly couple emerged from a house. "There.
          They should have a room for us." We stopped the vehicle. I
          approached the couple. "Trois officiers desirent une chambre
          pour ce soir. Est-il possible?"

          "Mais non. Nous n'avons pas une chambre. Mais - "

          Well, while they didn't have one, their neighbor did. And
          what a room. Positively luxurious. And that bathroom. And
          a flush toilet. The lady of the house was very kind. She
          made us feel right at home. Woody and Gude were
          overjoyed. They hadn't seen such comfort since they were in
          the hospital.

          We cleaned up and dressed. Having rushed away from our
          area, we had had no dinner. The first thing to do was to
          eat. We got out a ten in one ration, and the madame cooked
          it for us. The old gent donated a bottle of white wine. And
          we feasted.

          Dinner over we went to the girl's home. It was a private
          home that had been requisitioned. The other half of our ten
          in one, a bottle of scotch, a bottle of cognac, the radio, the
          rug pulled back, and we had an excellent party. As the
          other girls would drift in they'd drop by us, and all had a
          fine time. They were a fine bunch of girls, all very pleasant,
          congenial, and unusually attractive. I've been on passes
          before, but Joe and Woody haven't.

          We slept late, had breakfast, and returned to our work.
          There's nothing like a break like this to help one's
          disposition and attitude. Without them, I feel I should go
          completely off at times. They're infrequent, but it helps to
          get away.

          Now they are giving passes to Paris, leaves to the States,
          and talk of leaves to the Riviera and England. One of my
          men left today for the States. Really tickled. I hope one day
          to get a pass to England and would prefer this to Paris. We
          shall see.

          All my love, John

          As I reread this letter, it makes me sad. Gude survived the
          war, but Woody did not. Just before the end, he was
          walking by a tank. Suddenly, its turret blew off and landed
          on him. After all the combat he had seen, what a strange
          way to die.
          END OF EXCERPT

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 08:39:12 -0600
From:    Cheryl Kaye Bryant <[email-masked]>
Subject: Burial at Sea Prayer?

Are there any Sailors out there who could send me a copy of the prayer
that is read when a seaman is buried at sea.  My uncle died Friday and
his ashes are going to be spread in the Atlantic Ocean.  We would like to
recite that prayer at that time, but have been unable to find it.  Any
help would be much appriciated.

C.K. Bryant
[email-masked]
*******************************************************************
"The Riskier the road, the greater the profit."    / C.K. Bryant
        The 62nd Rule of Acquisition               / W.I.U. English
*******************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 08:55:56 -0600
From:    Cooper Addison <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

One of the problems the American Army has never addressed is how to
replenish infantry in combat and maintain unit effectivness.  In WWII there
was a serious shortage of replacements and Gen Cota put the blame for
incidents like the shooting of Slovick on this system as much as any
where else. Many replacements were assigned during periods of heavy
combat and never even knew who they were with before becoming casualties.
Last summer I met the man who introduced Clinton at the 50th anniversary
ceremonies and he told me in 31 days near Aachen his company took 400%
casualties, this does seem to have been all that unusual.  I have long
held that one of the many reasons for the poor performance of our
infantry in VN was the repacement system that saw after 3 or 4 years
units of virtual strangers where leaders didn't know their men and the
troops darn sure were not going to die for someone they didn't even know.
I wonder if the people who say loss of combat effectivness is based on
percentages rather then loss of institutional meemory aren't barking up
the wrong tree.  Anyway in Rob Rush's book the 22nd darn sure weren't
pulled out of the line for replenishment and this was the rule rather
than the exception.  The best traatment I have seen of this problem is in
-The Draftee Division-.

Cooper

>     However, didn't the American infantrymen, at least consider that
> he would be relieved in the line, if he survived that long, because
> we also tended to reconstitute forces pulled out of the line for rest
> and replenishment which also meant replacements?
>
>     Thanks, again.
>
>     Terry
>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 08:03:51 CST
From:    Michael P LaForge <[email-masked]>
Subject: Camp Custer

Camp Custer was located in the state of Michigan, County of Kalamazoo, City
or town of Augusta.

******************************************************************************
* Mike LaForge                                                               *
* U.S. Army Technical Center for Explosives Safety (USATCES)                 *
* Explosives Safety Logistics Division (ESL)                                 *
* Defense Environmental Restoration Program - Formerly Used Defense Sites    *
* (DERP-FUDS)                                                                *
* DSN: 585-8762  FAX: 585-6009  COMM: 815-273-8762                           *
******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 08:18:10 CST
From:    Michael P LaForge <[email-masked]>
Subject: Army Museums

A guide to US Army Museums is published by the US Army Center
of Military History. It was compiled/written by R. Cody Phillips.
We use it to locate primary sources in the areas we
research as part of the DERP-FUDS program.  It lists phone
numbers, hours, addresses and gives a brief description of
the holdings at each museum CONUS/OCONUS.  It was
published in 1992 - Sorry, No price tag on it.

The Center can be reached at 1099 14th St. NW, Washington, DC.
The last phone number I had was 202-504-5416.

BTW a visit to Fort McClellan will let you hit a triple.
 In addition to the Chemical Corps Museum, it is also the
home of the Women's Army Corps and the Military Police Corps
 Regimental Museums. But, I digress.

******************************************************************************
* Mike LaForge                                                               *
* U.S. Army Technical Center for Explosives Safety (USATCES)                 *
* Explosives Safety Logistics Division (ESL)                                 *
* Defense Environmental Restoration Program - Formerly Used Defense Sites    *
* (DERP-FUDS)                                                                *
* DSN: 585-8762  FAX: 585-6009  COMM: 815-273-8762                           *
******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 10:33:48 -0500
From:    Jim Bowman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRV: B-29 Auxiliary Power

I'm lucky enough to have a B-29 (Seattle Museum of Flight) parked a short
bicycling distance from my home.  Next time I'm down there I'll ask.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 10:33:52 -0500
From:    Jim Bowman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN Re: Query: Swastika

In my family is a blue stone makeup box from India purchased in the 1920's.
 It bears a swastika type cross.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 10:36:58 -0500
From:    "Mr. Scott Hannon" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

Ken Koester writes:
>What I had always gathered was
>that the Soviets used up divisions like rounds of ammunition, the Germans
>pulled them out at cadre-size for several months for complete reconstitution,

I think this was due more to circumstances rather than a deliberate policy.
By late-1944 the German replacement system had almost completely broken
down, and replacements tended to be whatever could be scraped up at the
the moment, rather than drawing on the appropriate regimental training/
replacement depot. The shortage of troops to man the frontlines meant the
Germans could usually not afford the luxary of pulling div's out of the
line for replacement integration & training until the div was no longer
combat effective....ie shot to bits and/or otherwise unable to carry out
it's assigned mission. The Pz and PG divs often did better, but the VG
divs usually stayed on the line until they were all but wiped out.

>and the US left them in the line and fed replacements in a steady stream.
>As we've read in the Huertgen accounts, and notwithstanding that units
>might be pulled out from time to time for rest & refit.  The idea is that
>combat is no time to be absorbing replacements.  But what I'm asking for
>is studies of what the actual policies/effects were, rather than what I
>have the impression of (-:

I am not convinced that the US policy was in general bad, or that
substantially better methods were feasible. Heavy combat is likely a
poor place to introduce replacements, but the prefered method, pulling
the unit of the frontlines to the rear for replenishment & retraining
(not rest), wasn't always a realistic option. The US Army was also
operating under a somewhat severe infantry manpower shortage in late
1944/early '45. A slow trickle of replacements (even to units on
the offensive) does not seem to have damaged unit cohesion; after a
few weeks (if he lasted that long) the new guys would be integrated and
one of the guys. AFAIK, the Hurtgen battle is more an exception to the
usual practice rather than being the norm.

As for sources comparing US vs German replacement policy and effects, I've
not read any books that deal with this topic in particular, although
some of the books on "effectiveness" deal with it as part of the whole
combat effectiveness question. One such recent book is Keith Bonn's _When
the Odds Were Even_, published last summer by Presideo Press. This book
deals with US vs. German combat effectiveness in the Vosges battles of
Nov '44 - early Jan '45. (Summary: A description of US and German
units/methods/policys/tactics/etc, and then a operational history of
a campaign where "the odds were even" to build his case that the US
Army effectiveness was better than the Germans).

Scott.
Scott Hannon, Thu Jan 19 1995 ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 11:17:18 -0500
From:    "Mr. Scott Hannon" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: KILLING OF GERMAN PRISONERS?

John Ausland writes:
>A question has been raised on the Compuserve military forum about possible
>cases of US soldiers killing German prisoners.  Does anyone know any
>literature on this question?

I know of nothing dealing with it in particular, although I am aware of
a book based upon German reports of Allied war crimes (I've have it on
order from Artciles Of War Ltd for months but have not yet received it).

A few books do touch on it...I read an oral history of the 3/410 inf bn
(I think; it was Paul Fussel's unit & apparently he's not too popular in
the bn) of the 103rd ID, called _Infantry_ (I forget the author). It
touched on this issue in a rather disturbing way. A few of the soldiers
mentioned it was more-or-less standard operating procedure to kill German
POWs when they were inconvenient (taken in small numbers during combat).
A few German POWs might be given to a couple US infantrymen who were told
to (wink-wink) take them to the rear, and then to hurry back...the implicit
message being to march them out of sight and shoot them and be back within
10 (or whatever) minutes. I think one of the men interviewed all but
admitted doing so himself! Disgusting.

And I recall Charles Whiting's _Operation Nordwind_ book very briefly
mentioned some controversy with the US 45 ID soon after it first saw
action in Italy. Apparently they had their own Malmedy-ish mass murder
machine-gunning of more than a few (20-50? I forget) German POWs before
being told that sort of thing just wasn't acceptible. I think Whiting
said some disciplinary action was taken against some of those involved,
but I forget for sure.

Scott.
Scott Hannon, Thu Jan 19 1995 ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:32:43 -0800
From:    Ed Kettler <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Japanese Aerial Torpedoes of WWII

You wrote:

>
>I've always had a peripheral interest in the sinking of the Repulse and
>Prince of Wales--an event which has often been cited in the discussions
>of air power over the battleship.  I believe that the attack was
carried
>out by numberous twin-engined, land based torpedo bombers and was
un-opposed.
>
>Can anyone provide specifics re name and designations of aircraft,
number
>of torpedoes launced, number of hits etc.  Where these torpedoes the
same
>type as carried by the carrier borne aircraft?
>
>Suggested sources would also be appreciated.
>
>
The Japanese forces came from the 22nd Air Flotilla Koku Sentai, rear
Admiral Sadaichi Matsunaga at Saigon.
        Genzan Kokutai with 36 Type 96 G3M2 Nell
        Mihoro Kokutai with 36 Type 96 G3M2 Nell
        Kanoya Kokutai with 27 Navy Type 1 G4M1 Betty from 21st Air
                Flotilla
        6 Type 97 H6K5 Mavis seaplanes

34 of the Nells carried 250Kg bombs, 26 Nells carried Type 91 Model 1
torpedoes and the Bettys carried Type 91 Model 2.  Not all of the planes
participated in the attack: Genzan Kokutai attacked the destroyer
Tenedos which was steaming independently.

First attack was by Mihoro Kokutai with 2 250kg bombs per plane from
10000'.  One bomb hit and penetrated to a boiler room causing many
casualties from steam, but not reducing Repulses speed.  Lots of near
misses.  One bomb dropped per plane on first pass.   Two nells damaged,
abort to Saigon.

First torpedo attack on PoW was by 3rd Squadron of Genzan Kokutai (9
planes in 3 groups), 1 hit in stern, reducing speed to 15 knots,
damaging the screws and cutting off electrical power to many parts of
the ship.  She possibly took another torpedo hit, but I can't find
where.

Second attack 8 Nells from 2nd Squadron Genzan Kokutai was on Repulse,
all misses due to skillful manuvering, followed by 6 250kg bombs from
1st Squadron Mihoro from 12000', all misses.

The next attack was by Kanoya Kokutai (3 squadrons).  1 squadron
attacked PoW from starboard:  hits forward (clean through hull both
sides), forward of bridge (ruptured oil bunker), under aft turret, and
fourth hit starboard outer propellor shaft.  Speed fell to 8 knots, and
pumps could not keep up.

17 planes attacked Repulse in a two pronged attack.  Eight torpedoes
were launched at the starboard side, and three from the port, but only 1
hit the torpedo bulge and caused only superficial damage.  Two minutes
later, 6 planes attacked the starboard side and 3 the port.  3 torps hit
the port side:  amidships, under Y turret and in the stern, jamming the
rudders.  2hits from starboard caused major underwater damage, and ship
listed 12 degrees to port.

The total attack lasted 1.5 hours.

>From Operation Pacific, Edwyn Gray, Naval Institute Press, ~1990

Hope that helps.
Ed

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:25:02 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Weap: Faulty Torpedos

        You can't blame BuOrd totally for the early failures of the
     magnetic detonators.  Don't forget, the Navy was "pushing the
     envelope" back in the '30s and (as I mentioned in an earlier post)
     these torpedoes were, in the Navy hierarchies mind, too expensive to
     lose in tests.

        Think of it in modern terms.  You don't take the first production
     F-14 out over the ocean and have the crew eject just to prove that it
     can be done successfully.  Nobody is going to authorize a test that
     throws away a perfectly good multi-million dollar airplane.  So ground
     based simulations are used to approximate ejecting from the F-14, and
     everybody hopes that the simulations are accurate.

        The same thing happened to BuOrd.  They were required to test the
     new magnetic detonators without destroying them.  The test worked as
     follows.

        1.  A target ship was set up in a harbor.

        2.  Fine netting was suspended underwater on the opposite side of
     the ship from where the torpedoes were fired.

        3.  The warhead was removed from the torpedoes, and replaced with
     inert ballast.

        4.  The torpedoes were fired to run underneath the hull of the
     target vessel.

        When the test was over, and the torpedoes were recovered from the
     netting, it was found that all of the magnetic detonators had been
     triggered by the magnetic field generated by the target vessel.  The
     Navy was convinced they had a weapon that could avoid the armored
     sides of enemy capital ships and explode beneath their keels to
     devastating effect.

        The only flaw was that the test did not reveal exactly when the
     detonator triggered.  The Navy experts assumed that they triggered
     when the field was strongest (directly underneath the hull).  In fact
     the detonators were far more sensitive than anybody believed and were
     being triggered early as the torpedo entered the targets magnetic
     field.

        Had a simple live fire test been conducted at any time during the
     program this flaw would have made itself readily apparent.
     Unfortunately for our submarine crews valid tests weren't performed
     until months of wartime complaints by sub commanders finally convinced
     Washington that something might be wrong.

        This same scenario has been played out many times since.  There are
     many cases where weapons have been introduced into the US inventory
     after passing tests cooked up by a program manager to show the weapon
     in its best light.  It was only in the 1980s that the congress passed
     legislation that requires new weapons to be live tested by an
     independent agency before they can be adopted for service use.

     Some lessons are just learned the hard way.

     Steve New
     [email-masked]
     Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 11:42:09 -0700
From:    Nancy Carlston <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN Re: Query: Swastika

On Thu, 19 Jan 1995, Jim Bowman wrote:

> In my family is a blue stone makeup box from India purchased in the 1920's.
>  It bears a swastika type cross.
>
My academic background is in South Asian studies, so I will provide a
little further information.  The swastika is still
commonly used in India as an auspicious symbol.  Please note, however,
that the Indian swastika's arms turn in the reverse direction of the Nazi
swastika.

It was quite unsettling for me the first time I went to India and saw the
streets festooned with swastikas during festivals, but I've gotten used
to it now.

If any of you are interested, I believe a former professor of mine,
Sheldon Pollock at the University of Chicago, has
published several articles discussing how the Nazis co-opted much of what
was
going on in India Studies during the early part of this century.  For
instance, the
idea of a dominant Aryan race was at that time a commonly accepted
aspect of Ancient Indian history.
Anyway, all the best,
Laura Parsons, Westview Press ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 13:37:19 EST
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

On Thu, 19 Jan 1995 10:36:58 -0500 Mr. Scott Hannon said:
>I think this was due more to circumstances rather than a deliberate policy.
>By late-1944 the German replacement system had almost completely broken
>down, and replacements tended to be whatever could be scraped up at the
>the moment, rather than drawing on the appropriate regimental training/
>replacement depot.

Ummm.  Seemed to me the Germans were doing this as of the winter of '41,
though.  Certainly they were sending divisions to France by '43 for a
complete rest/refit, right?

>combat effectiveness question. One such recent book is Keith Bonn's _When
>the Odds Were Even_, published last summer by Presideo Press. This book
>deals with US vs. German combat effectiveness in the Vosges battles of
>Nov '44 - early Jan '45. (Summary: A description of US and German
>units/methods/policys/tactics/etc, and then a operational history of
>a campaign where "the odds were even" to build his case that the US
>Army effectiveness was better than the Germans).

Interesting.  Dupuy, I'm sure I remember reading, comes to the opposite
conclusion.  What sort of methodology does Bonn use?

ken koester
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 11:10:28 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Camp Custer

     >My uncle was stationed at CAMP CUSTER.  I think he was in the
     >chemical corps in WWII.  Where is or was Camp CUSTER?

     Camp Custer is in Augusta, Michigan, outside of Battle Creek.  It's
     currently not used for much more than a military cemetery.

    Steve L. New
    [email-masked]
    Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 13:40:13 EST
From:    "SGM Robert S. Rush" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

Cassady,

Your reply on the replacement situation in the US army is not quite
correct, although it follows traditional thinking.

You are correct that replacements were fed directly into organizations
without acclimatization.  But contrary to popular belief, and at least
in the First US Army from June 44 to May 45, there was a conscious effort
to return soldiers to their original units, even though this was contrary
to the Twelth Army Group policy of November 44.  There were only two
instances where substantial members of one division were sent to another,
both when there was a substantial infantry shortage in the Hurtgen Forest
The 83 division lost 600+ and the 2d Division lost just under 100.  Onsies
and twosies were sent to other organizations, but infrequently.

I have the personnel documents for a rifle company for January 1945.  One
of the platoons has two platoon leaders, and many of the squads had more
than one staff sergeant (squad leader)  I asked the company commander and
he told me that they made a point of putting soldiers back in their
original squads even when it caused overstrengths in personnel and grade.

Hope this helps
Rob Rush

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 13:43:31 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Enola Gay at the Smithsonian. AGAIN!

Well, just when you think it's done...

BEGIN PARAPHRASE, WITH SELECTED QUOTES THROWN IN:

Today's Washington Post is reporting that the American Legion met with
Smithsonian Secretary I. Michael Heyman yesterday to demand that the
"Smithsonian Institution ... cancel its controversial exhibit on the atomic
bomb and the end of World War II.  ...  The Smithsonian declined to do so."

According to the article, Legion officials delivered their demands to the
secretary after learning that the text for the exhibit was being changed
again to lower the estimate of casualties that would have occurred had an
American invasion of Japan been needed to end the war.

Barton Bernstein, a Stanford University academician, convinced Martin
Harwit, director of the Air and Space Museum, that the anticipated casualty
figures in the revised exhibit text were too high.  In a January 9 letter
to the American Legion internal affairs director, Harwit wrote that
Bernstein had convinced him, based on Bernstein's new interpretation of a
contemporary diary, that the figure should be 63,000 instead of 229,000 as
he'd previously thought.

"'Seeing that our earlier label text had been based on a misapprehension,
we needed to revise it,' Harwit wrote, asking for 'any concerns or
comments.'"

Yesterday, U.S. Representative Peter Blute (R-Mass.) a signer of a December
13 letter from several congressmen to Heyman expressing "deep displeasure"
over the Smithsonian's handling of the exhibit, said "I thought we were
moving in the right direction, but it seems they're reverting back to the
original approach, which touched off controversy.  This is troubling."
Blute said he has already formally requested that hearings be held on the
Air and Space Museum and on the Smithsonian in general.

END PARAPHRASE

Boy, this is really getting old...

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:06:30 -0700
From:    Jim O'Neil <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: German Aerial Torpedoes of WWII

Naval Weapons of WW II - John Campbell ; Naval Institute Press ; 1985
 Every thing a Techie could hope to know... It appears that German aerial
Trops were copies of Norwegian and Italian weapons !! There's a switch.

Jim O'Neil      They don't pay me enough to fight fair!

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:06:48 -0700
From:    Jim O'Neil <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Faulty Torpedoes

>> >> In "Double-Edged Secrets" US Naval Intelligence Operations in the Pacific
>> >> during WW II; by W.J. Holmes; published by the Naval Institute Press;
>> >> -there is a reference to the possibility that the Germans stole our
>> >> Magnetic exploder on page 106. The author points out that they then had
>> >> many of the same problems we did...an interesting side note!
>
>Here is more information on the design of the Mark 6 magnetic exploder: page
>35 in the volume "War Under the Pacific" (from the Time-Life series World War
>II) says:
>        "The weapons designers at BuOrd had based their new exploder on a
>         mechanism that the Germans had employed to trigger mines during
>         the First World War."
>
>Hmmmm. Who copied what from whom?

Now that would be Ironic... to go through the trouble of trying to steal
something you have reasonable access to... Such is war!

Jim O'Neil      They don't pay me enough to fight fair!

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:07:07 -0700
From:    Jim O'Neil <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Japanese Aerial Torpedoes of WWII

Get DULIN & GARZKE; Allied Battleships of WW II; Naval Institue Press - it
takes you through the whole affair and explains the damage and it's
affects.

Jim O'Neil      They don't pay me enough to fight fair!

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 14:05:10 EST
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA: VW Bug controversy

Published in the _Heti Vilaggazdasag_, Budapest:

   In 1926, an 18 year old engineer named Bela Barenyi envisioned a
small car with an air cooled four cylander engine. He took his idea to
several manufacturers including Porsche in Stuttgart, but no one was
interested.

   Then 4 years later Porsche began manufacturing a car with many similar
characteristics: the Volkswagen Beetle. Since then, 21 million have been
made, and Barenyi has been fighting for money and recognition.

   After WWII, Barenyi won a legal decision giving him credit for the
Beetle's design. But that didn't settle the dispute. Germany's _Der
Spiegel_ magazine of Hamburg has credited the engineer with the Beetle's
invention and called Barenyi "the great loser of the car industry". But
Porsche is standing firm. A spokesman says that, while he has no desire
to denigrate Barenyi, he can not accept a rewriting of the history of
the Beetle.

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 14:18:45 EST
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 3rd Army Chronology - 20Jan45

January 20, 1945
D-Day +228

-It was expected by G-2 that with the intensification of inclement weather,
 the German delay/defend tactics with continue.

-XX Corps opens up after a month of quiet (illicited by the Ardennes
 offensive) with a schedule of violent, sustained artillery aimed
 mostly at the Saarlautern bridgehead.

-A new "missile" was being used by the Germans, chacterized by a quick
 fuse, and high fragmentation. It had 6 rear fins paralleling its height.
 The development term used was "non-rotating flight".

-III Corps: 26th Inf Div clears Grumelscheid
            90th Inf Div captures Allerbronn, Chifontaine, & Hamville
            6th Armored Div clears Troine
            35th Inf Div moves to Metz for training

-VIII Corps: 11th Armored, Combat Comm "A" reaches Buret

-XII Corps: 87th Inf Div and 2nd Calv held positions
            80th Inf Div clears burden, Bourcheid, and Welscheid

-XX Corps: 94th Inf Div repulsed small counterattacks
           302nd Regiment clears resistance between Nenning & Tettingen

-XIX TAC flew 10 sorties - nothing much to report

-Signal construction troops completed the open wire lead into Ettelbruck
 from Luxembourg. Plans were to extend it to St. Vith.

-Request was made for 200,000 clored shields to prevent snow-blindness.

-5,000,000 units of insulin came from Luxembourg, and foot-and-mouth
 disease serum was obtained from Switzerland.

***Source: _Patton's 3rd Army, a Chronology_ by Charles Province
   Typos: Mine; 'sorry.

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 14:54:15 EST
From:    "Carl Wernke - [email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Burial at Sea Prayer ?

 Cheryl Kaye Bryant wrote on Thu, 19 Jan 1995 08:39:12 -0600
 > Are there any Sailors out there who could send me a copy of the prayer
 > that is read when a seaman is buried at sea ?

        Unto Almighty God we commend the soul of our brother departed,
        and we commit his body to the deep; in sure and certain hope of
        of the resurrection unto eternal life, through our Lord, Jesus Christ,
        Amen.

 The Protestant, Roman Catholic, and Jewish commitals differ slightly. The
 above is the Protestant Committal.

   Source: _Naval Customs Traditions & Usage_ by: VADM Leland P.Lovette,
   USN, (Ret), U.S.N.I., Annapolis, MD, 1959.

   May your uncle Requiescat en pax !

   Carl Wernke USN (Ret)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 15:05:45 -0500
From:    "Robert F. Kieran" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: KILLING OF GERMAN PRISONERS?

        From: JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
        Subject: GEN: KILLING OF GERMAN PRISONERS?
        Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 20:03:21 +0100

        A question has been raised on the Compuserve military forum about possible
        cases of US soldiers killing German prisoners.  Does anyone know any
        literature on this question?

        Regards, John Ausland

John,

     I recall reading in "The Devil's Brigade", by, er, ah I forget,
that they never took prisoners unless they were ordered to do so.
This book was a history of the 1st Special Forces Brigade, the joint
US/Canadian unit that served in Italy. I remember being quite surprised
by this.

                                                Regards
                                                Bob Kieran
                                                [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 15:51:24 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: KILLING OF GERMAN PRISONERS?

        In the book "Hit Hard" (the story of the black 763rd Tank Battalion by
one of its white company commanders--sorry, I don't have the name of the author
offhand) the author relates an incident wherein his company was ordered to
shoot several German prisoners.  The order came from the colonel commanding the
infantry regiment the tankers were supporting, who gave the reason that he was
tired of the Germans shooting down his men from cover, causing casualties, and
then throwing up their hands as soon as they were cornered.  This would have
occurred in the fighting around Tilly during the Battle of the Bulge, I
believe.  This order WAS carried out.
        Not quite the same, but related, is the fact that two prominent
German aces met their deaths when they were strafed by US planes while on the
ground after exiting crash-landed aircraft.  Adolf Galland also had a narrow
escape from a similar fate after his final mission of the war, if I recall
correctly (its in "The First and the Last").  In my mind, this is pretty much
akin to machinegunning a bailed-out pilot while hanging in his chute, which is
usually portrayed as an atrocity (and which, BTW, Luftwaffe fighter pilots also
claimed was something not infrequently done by US fighter pilots).  I can dig
for the names if anyone's interested (this comes from the bio section of a
book called "Messerschmidt Aces"--again, I forget the author).
        PS: To John Ausland:
        Sorry its taken me so long to post that info about the
attempted palace coup to pre-empt the Japanese surrender.  I've dug up the
source, just haven't been able to find the time to type a fairly lengthy post.
Please excuse the delay, I'll have it for you soon.

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 15:24:58 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

Hello, Cooper!

Thank you for responding to my addendum. You would think that the
Army would have addressed this problem at the time, knowing full well
that the current system at the time ignored the fact that a soldier
would be more effective in combat, if he were more familar with his
unit and staff. Do you know if this system has been amended with
taking this into account at this time?

Thanks, again, Cooper, and all the best.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 16:18:08 EST
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: Excerpt from _A Soldier's Story_

Excerpt from _A Soldier's Story_, by Gen. Omar Bradley

  U.S. casualties for the month long battle totalled approximately 1/4
of those we had attributed to the German. Of the 59,000 we lost in
battle, 6,700 were listed as dead, another 33,400 as wounded. The
remaining 18,900 were counted as missing though most were presumed to
have been captured when cut off on the German breakthrough. The majority
of them had been trapped with units of the 106th and 28th Divisions and
most were liberated when their stalags were overrun at the end of the
war.

  When the War Department announced that battle casualties for that month
in the Ardennes surpassed those of any previous 30 days in the war, it
neglected to add that more divisions were engaged than ever before.
During the month preceeding the Breakout, casualties totaled 46,800 with
a maximum of 17 divisions engaged in combat. By January 17 we had thrown
27 U.S. divisions against the Bulge. This was almost 4 times the number
of U.S. divisions then committed in Italy; more than the total that had
been committed in the whole Pacific war.

  But if our casualties were severe, the enemy's were even more critical.
Moreover the proportion was better than we could have expected had he
struck us on the plains of Cologne, better than if he had withheld his
reserves until we reached the Rhine. In stalking us through the
Ardennes, the enemy had been forced to expose himself to our fire,
especially to the murderous air burst of our proximity fuse. To the 4th
Division still nursing its wounds from the Huertgen Forest, this
reversal in roles brought a sardonic staisfaction.

  "Up there it was our troops who combed the tree bursts out of their hair
while the Kraut lay snug in his hole", explained Colonel Charles T.
Lanham, the scrappy but scholarly soldier-poet who commanded the 22nd
Infantry Regiment. "During the Bulge we simple sat on our cans and
plugged the Kraut as he came at us. I don't know what happened
elsewhere, but in our sector he fought clean. And he certainly showed us
that he had guts."

Editor's note: My mother's brother (Uncle Oke) fought as a rifleman
               in the 3rd Army back in October of '44. He seemed to be
               just in time for the Ardennes offensive. He tells me he
               remembers moving parallel to the Siegfried Line, South
               bound, and seeing German troops up on the hill attending
               to their business.
-Alan

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 23:01:47 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Collaboration trial to be reopened

Today, the court of appeal in Ghent has begun debating whether are
revision of the trial of Irma Laplasse, shot in '45 after found guilty of
collaboration, is justified. If the court concludes that there is
sufficient new evidence --- it is argued that a key witness committed
perjury --- the trial will be reopened at the court-martial in Brussels.

The state is in favour of a revision, so it is likely that, 50 years after
the execution, Irma Laplasse will be cleared of the charges against her...

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 17:45:08 EST
From:    Mike Fetters <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 50TH: SMITHSONIAN AND

At this time, the Institution has no comment on any issue related to the
exhibition. As soon as we have a statement, I'll post it on this
discussion group. Thanks!

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 15:36:44 -0800
From:    Sonnenschein Nath and Rosenthal <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Weap: Faulty Torpedos

        I agree with Steve New that BuOrd cannot be blamed totally for
the failure of the magnetic detonator on the Mk.14; budget constraints,
peacetime apathy, and technological tooth-cutting all conspired against
the development of reliable ordnance.
        However, I do hold the BuOrd largely responsible for issuing the
Mk.14 to the fleet with, at the minimum, 3 major design flaws, each of
which was capable of rendering the torpedo impotent. Furthermore, as
discussed earlier, the magnetic detonator was shrouded from all but a
select few until a few months before the war started. Submariners were
forced to fight with a weapon which they did not understand, know how to
service, or understand malfunctions. When they did question the BuOrd
after months of frustrating, fruitless combat, they were alternately
berated and/or ignored.
        Numerous authors and especially former submariners have
characterized this debacle as criminal. How many months were added to the
war because our torpedoes were failing 70% of the time for the first 18
months of the campaign? How many lives were lost to "friendly torpedoes"?
        Geez...sorry to rant and rave there. Am I overboard on this? It
was wartime and ulgy things happen in war, but this chapter really stinks.

Doug Shireman

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 18:17:14 -0500
From:    Dan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay at the Smithsonian. AGAIN!

Does Mr. Harwit have an email address?

                 - Dan    <[email-masked]>

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Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 19:21:22 -0500
From:    Thoams Wildenberg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay at the Smithsonian. AGAIN!

RE Post Article, ya I read it too.

Does anyone new who Barton Bernstein is and what exactly he did or didn't do?

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Date:    Thu, 19 Jan 1995 19:56:00 EST
From:    Charles Mattocks <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ref: Locations: Lobenhausen, Melsorsen, Kassel, Germany

I've been trying to locate these towns but without luck.  Believe they were
located in Prussia (west or east?) and may be part of Poland today.  Also I
wonder if their names have changed with the Soviet occupation and since their
withdrawl.

I had family that came from those towns and was curious as to what happened to
them.

I feel Kassel may be the port city where submarines were kept, but not sure and
was it part of Prussia.

Can anyone tell me where I might find a map of Germany prior to WWII, say 1939,
1870, or even 1830.

Thanks for any assistance and for get off the subject a wee bit.

Chip
[email-masked]

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End of WWII-L Digest - 18 Jan 1995 to 19 Jan 1995
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