Subject: WWII-L Digest - 30 Jan 1995 to 31 Jan 1995

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 00:02:13 -0500

There are 59 messages totalling 2152 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Ack Ack Morrone oral history (1 of 5)
  2. INF: USN Chronology 01-31-95 (2)
  3. [INF] USAAF 31 JAN 45
  4. INF: 50 Years Ago - 01-FEB-1945
  5. Enola Gay Exhibit (10)
  6. embarassing question (5)
  7. Enola Gay Exhibit (fwd)
  8. attempted Japanese coup of August 1945
  9. POWs
 10. WWII-L
 11. Arizona at Pearl Harbor
 12. P-51s to Russia?
 13. Rocket Fighter (3)
 14. Jap POWs in China?
 15. Help for aunt in Westerly RI
 16. TAC: Aerial Mining (4)
 17. Peruvian Ecuadoran War
 18. GEN: Air Force moves forward to the past
 19. WEAP: Battleships
 20. Enola Gay at the Smithsonian. AGAIN!
 21. Ref Reenacting and USO Shows
 22. ?from high school student JRM (3)
 23. Hanna Reitsch (WAS Rocket Fighter)
 24. Micro Nations in World War II
 25. TRIV: The Fighting Lady
 26. INF: 3rd Army Chronology - 01Feb45
 27. V-2 Rocket "Liberations"
 28. Knight's Cross Series
 29. [INF] USAAF 1 FEB 45
 30. book reviews, personal experiences
 31. World War 2 Music (3)
 32. TAC: AERIAL MINING
 33. WESTERLY RI ORAL HISTO
 34. JAP POWS IN CHINA?
 35. POWS
 36. Congressional Medal of Honor

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 00:09:39 -0500
From:    Cheryl Abdullah <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ack Ack Morrone oral history (1 of 5)

Second try--apologies about first.  I do know that "calibre" is misspelled
in section 3 below.  Again, thanks for your patience and any feedback on

Cheryl                                    [email-masked]

Narrator:  Technical Sergeant Angelo Anthony "Ack Ack"
Morrone

Brief Biographical Background:
DOB: 3/27/25
POB: Westerly, RI
Civilian premilitary occupation: High-school student;
helped father at family gas station/restaurant.
Post-military experience:  Gas-station attendant; first
commander and cofounder of the Westerly VFW Post.
Separation or discharge date:  Fall, 1945
Branch of Service:  Air Force.
Overseas duty:  Corsica.
Special Awards:   Distinguished Flying Cross.

1

Highlights/Anecdotes of the Military Experience:

Morrone was born on a farm in "Varietyville," a little
village on the edge of White Rock, off the end of Canal
Street.  He recalls seeing the National Guard and the
American Legion marching during parades in Westerly, and
that the local military helped police during the '30s
hurricane.  He and his family moved to Ashaway shortly
before the hurricane hit.  He attended White Rock school
until 3d grade, then the Immaculate Conception Catholic
school.  Money was tight because of his dad's health
problems, so he went to Ashaway School for 5th-6th
grades, finishing 7th-12th grades at Westerly High.
Morrone heard the news about Pearl Harbor being bombed in
1941 while working with his father in their family-owned
gas station in Ashaway.

2

Morrone was allowed to enlist in the aviation cadet
program in February, 1943, foregoing his last few months
of high school.  On graduation day, his parents took the
stage to pick up his diploma at the high school.  (Only
students with minimal-level grades were allowed to
graduate early.)  He took pilot training in Nashville,
TN, then was reassigned to flight engineering school in
the spring of 1943.  He took aircraft and engineer
training for approximately three months at the Seymore
Johnson Field in North Carolina.

He next went to Fort Myers, FL, for gunnery training.
"The first gun I fired was a 22 at an arcade....Then they
started training us with these skeet range, one/half moon
circle.  We all were pretty good at it; before we got
done we would put a house on one end of the moon and a
house on the other end of the moon, about five or six
positions so you never knew when the skeet was coming out
but after a while you got so good you could get about 28
or 26 out of 30."  The skeet shooting was done with a 12-
gauge shot gun. Morrone was impressed by an instructor
from Tennessee who could shoot from the hip, "He could

3

hit anywhere."  They next trained by standing within a
round hoop in the back of a jeep that went around an oval
track; anytime the jeep hit cable lines in the track,
"they would shoot out of the bushes at different angles,"
teaching the trainees to lead at different angles.
Another training course was to shoot skeets from a turret
in a 40'-50' tower.  The trainees were graded on their
shooting ability.  "[T]he last step was in an actual
plane--we went on a B17--I was the top turret.  A few
other guys didn't know how to shoot (short purse), and we
burned out more barrels than they could count."  In order
to get his wings and graduate from aerial gunner school,
Morrone had to prove that he could dismantle detail strip
a 50 caliper gun blindfolded, without gloves, and
removing extraneous broken parts that his instructor
inserted.

4

After graduating in early 1944 as a flight engineer
gunner top turret, Morrone went to Columbus, SC, for
overseas training.  "In the B25 unit after that training
was done, they flew us down to Hunner Field in Savannah,
GA, where we picked up these brand new B25's, and then we
ferried them overseas--South Atlantic route via Trinidad
and Natal, Brazil and across to Ascension Island into
Decar, Africa, up the coast to Marrakesh and then into
Tunisia."  Morrone served as a staff sergeant flight
engineer during the trip.

5

He flew 70 combat missions out of Corsica with the 5th
bomb wing of the 310th squadron, 380th bomb group.  From
spring of 1944 until the end of the war he received air
medals six times, including the Distinguished Flying
Cross.  "We got that on my 70th mission [March 17, 1945]
in the Northern Apennines.at the Burma Pass.  Our main
objective was to stop the Germans from bringing the
supplies into Italy.  We had to cut their lifelines.
General Canon started to use a different strategy, so he
decided to bomb bridges and we worked up through south
France....and went into Poe Valley, [burning] a lot of
bridges and railroad cars.  Finally we pushed them
further north and that was the worst part of the mission
because we bombed right in to the Alps...you see, the

6

only way the Germans could get their supplies into Italy
was through southern Austria....As it turned out, the
target was heavily fortified and when we were on our bomb
run we were getting everything they could shoot up at us.
A lot of guys were shaken up but we kept a tight
ship....the place was full of flack.  And I guess what
happened was we saw the lead ship open the bomb bay doors
and no bombs came out so the bombardier must have
panicked, and it was too late to drop them.  So the squad
commander had us go around again--all hell broke
loose....[W]e lost several aircraft.  I can't recall
what, my ship got hit so hard that before we got under
control we lost about 2500 feet.  Pilot declared an
emergency and we headed back out for southern France.

7

Because we were based in Corsica we had to clear the
hills so we jettisoned everything out of the airplane
except for the freid [ed.?] meter and the nord bomb site
and the top turret guns....[W]e had lost the left engine
when we got a direct hit...I had no hydraulics, and we
had all we could to keep the plane flying level so we
wouldn't go off in a dive.  Thank God we had good
engines, we kept the power on....we came in at about 125
m.p.h. right over the bushes.  We cut everything off--
selective fueled value--fueled off everything.  We just
rolled into the bushes."  That was Morrone's last
mission.

8

While on a boat going from Corsica to Naples, Morrone
heard about President Roosevelt passing away.  He and his
outfit stayed three weeks in a stateside hospital for
being "flack happy and nervous." By this time a Tech.
Sergeant, he went to Shenoot Field in Illinois for
training as a B29 flight engineer.  He was scheduled to
go to the Philippines, but VJ day and Hiroshima occurred.
Morrone had enough points to get out of the service by
fall of 1945.  He joined the Air Force reserve after
being discharged to Westover Airforce Base.  The state of
Rhode Island gave Morrone and other veterans money out of
what was called the "52-20 club" ($20/week for 52 weeks).

9

Upon reentering civilian life, Morrone and his brother
built a gasoline station in Ashaway, where Morrone worked
until 1954.  He then worked from 1954 to 1971 at the Gulf
station on Main Street.  Since 1971 he has worked at
Dunn's Corners.  Using the GI. Bill of Rights, he got his
pilot's license (commercial, multi-engine, and instrument
license), flying out of the Stonington Airport.  When Ack
Ack married an Urso girl in 1953, General Holland of the
National Guard let the two large families use the state
armory for the wedding reception--without fee.

10

Ack Ack became the first commander of the VFW Post in
Westerly during 1946 or 1947 after co-founding it with
friends Al Cofone, Joe Ruisi, Bubba Urso, Harry Champlin,
Slim Algiere, and Roger Crandall.  They named the AF VFW
8955 Post "Amanico Falcone" after two Pawcatuck brothers
who were killed early on in the war. The Westerly
veterans used to meet upstairs at the old YMCA building
on High Street, which has since been torn down.

Audio tape interview:     July 13, 1992
Interviewer:              Colonel Coulahan
Written History Editor:   Cheryl Abdullah

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 04:00:10 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 01-31-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
01/31 Wed. Army troops are landed at Masugbu, south of the entrance
           to Manila Bay, Luzon, P. I., by naval attack group (Rear
           Adm. W. M. Fechteler) with support by carrier-based
           aircraft (Rear Adm. W. D. Sample).
            United States naval vessel sunk:
             Submarine chaser PC-1119, by suicide boat, Philippine
              Islands  area,
              14 d. 05'N., 12O d. 30'E.
            Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             Destroyer UME, by Army aircraft, off Formosa,
              22 d. 30'N., 120 d. 00'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 07:02:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 31 JAN 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
WEDNESDAY, 31 JANUARY 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  C-46, Curtiss Commando
  UC-64, Noorduyn Norseman
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, P-51s strafe targets of
opportunity along the Pinghan (Hankow-Peking) railroad.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 12 B-25s hit troops and
stores at Namlan; 50+ P-47s attack troops and supplies at several locations
including Na-mawtawng, Tawkut, Mong Long, Hsipaw, Hsenwi, and Namhpakka.
Transports complete 535 sorties to forward bases and frontline areas. The
13th, 14th and 16th Combat Cargo Squadrons, 4th Combat Cargo Group, move from
Agartala to Chittagong, India with C-46s. The 164th Liaison Squadron
(Commando), 1st Air Commando Group, moves from Kan, Burma to Asansol, India
with UC-64s and L-5s.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 813: 291 B-24s, 112 B-17s
and 186 P-51s are recalled from a mission against targets in Germany because
of expected bad weather at UK bases and heavy clouds; 1 B-17 and 3 B-24s are
damaged beyond repair; 6 airmen are KIA and 8 WIA.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): All operations are cancelled due to
weather. The 387th Fighter Squadron, 365th Fighter Group, moves from Metz,
France to Juzaine Airfield, Florennes, Belgium with P-47s. In France, the
512th and 514th Fighter Squadrons, 406th Fighter Group, move from Mourmelon-
le-Grand to Metz with P-47s (the 514th has been operating from Prosnes since
22 Jan).

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 670+ B-24s and B-17s bomb the
Moosbierbaum, Austria oil refinery; marshalling yards at Graz, Austria and
Maribor, Yugoslavia; and scattered targets of opportunity. P-38s and P-51s
fly 300+ escorting sorties for the bombers; other P-38s fly reconnaissance
and reconnaissance escort and drop supplies into Austria; during the night of
30/31 Jan, B-24s drop supplies in N Italy.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, medium bombers attack
railroad bridges at Chiusaforte, Voghera, Lavis, Rovereto, and San Michele
all' Adige, and the marshalling yard at Rovereto, with only fair results;
fighters and fighter-bombers hit bridges, rail lines, trains, vehicles, and
other targets over widespread areas of N Italy; during the night of 30/31
Jan, A-20s hit several railroad targets during intruder missions in the Po
Valley.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 20 B-24s from Guam Island bomb airfields and AA
defenses on Iwo Jima Island; during the night of 31 Jan/1 Feb, 9 more B-24s,
flying single-bomber harassment strikes, hit the island. HQ 419th Troop
Carrier Group is activated on Guam; no tactical squadrons or aircraft are
assigned; the group's HQ had detachments on Saipan, Tinian and Angaur Islands
to operate transportation terminals that assisted in moving troops,
equipment, food and mail to, and in evacuating wounded personnel from combat
areas.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: Brigadier General
Earl W Barnes again assumes command of the XIII Fighter Command. The 157th,
159th and 160th Liaison Squadrons (Commando), 3d Air Commando Group, move
from Leyte Island to Calasio, Mangaldan and Calasio, Luzon Island
respectively with UC-64s and L-5s (first mission is 17 Feb and 7 Feb
respectively).

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 07:18:22 EST
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 01-FEB-1945

On 01-FEB-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The U.S. 9th Army prepares for Operation Grenade, the
large-scale offensive across the Roer. In the 1st Army sector, the
divisions of the V Corps continue with their offensive towards the dams on
the rivers Rur and Urft. The 2nd Division moves northeast from Rocherath
across the German border. The 1st Division continues its attack through the
north part of the the Buchholz Forest. In the 3rd Army sector, the VIII
Corps continues its attack to breach the West Wall along the Schnee Eifel.
Units of the 87th Division take Manderfeld in Belgium and Auw in German.
The 4th Division advances almost 4 miles into Germany to positions
overlooking Bleialf. III Corps maintains and improves defensive positions
in Luxembourg. The XX Corps front is static. In the 7th Army sector, XV
Corps maintains and improves its defensive positions. The French 1st Army
continues operations against the Colmar pocket.

Eastern Front - In Poland the Soviets take the Torun communications center
on the Vistula by storm and maintain pressure on encircled Posen.

Philippines - In the XIV Corps area, the 1st Cavalry and 37th Infantry
Divisions drive quickly southward toward Manila, occupying Gapan and Santa
Rosa. In the I Corps area, the 6th and 25th Divisions attack east to cut
Highway 5 at San Jose. In the 8th Army sector, the 11th Division meets
sharp resistance between Mount Cariliao and Mount Batulao.

Burma - The main body of the British 36th Division starts crossing the
Shweli River in the Myitson region.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                           | [email-masked]
Cary, North Carolina                 | http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 19:42:58 +0700
From:    "Peter E. Beal" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

On Mon, 30 Jan 1995, mc killop wrote:

> The Associated Press is reporting that the Smithsonian has decided
> to cancel the exhibition of the Enola Gay and the atomic bomb
> exhibit.  Instead, they will simply show the fuselage of the B-29
> and possibly a video of rememberances of it's crew.
>
> The Smithsonian Secretary I. Michael Heyman said, "We made an
> error."  (Understatement of the year!)

And, more interesting, the Director, or whoever speaks on his behalf,
stated (as heard by yours truely on the BBC this morning, Bangkok time)
that they did not realize the amount of emotion this exhibit would
generate as opposed to "analysis" and (get this) "the results of that
analysis"

Now, I a paraphasing but my understanding of his remark was that people
did not like the facts and the conclusions the Smithsonian and its
advisors drew therefrom and prefered an emotional response or version of
history.

If I heard correctly (and I am waiting for offices in Washington D.C. to
open before calling for a transcript) I find his remark arrogant and
condescending.  In other words, we know the facts, drew the correct
conclusions and still those people disagree.

I thought one of the questions was the number of casualties the U.S.
forces were expected to suffer if an invaision of Japan had to be made.
Given the nature of the battles on Okinawa and Iwo Jima, I would thought
these would have been in excess of the losses by the Japanese at
Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

But that begs the question.  In war, does a commander weigh his actions
on the basis of relative losses, his and the enemy's?  The idea is minimize
friendly forces losses at WHATEVER cost to the enemy.

As soon as I get that transcript, my computer will be humming!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 08:16:33 -0500
From:    Burt Knight <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: embarassing question

Locations of Italian Aircraft Manufacturers:
        Savoia-Marchetti- Head Office:  Sesto Calende
                            Works:             Sesto Calende and Borgomanero
        Caproni- Head office and Works: Milan
        Piaggio- Genoa
        Meridionale/IMAM- Naples
        Saiman- Rome
        Reggiane- Reggio Emilia

Source: Jane's Fighting Aircraft 1945-46.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 20:21:48 +0700
From:    "Peter E. Beal" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Enola Gay Exhibit (fwd)

I found the text which I heard read on the BBC this morning:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 15:33:24 EST
From: Mike Fetters <[email-masked]>
To: Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>
Subject: Enola Gay Exhibit

Statement by I. Michael Heyman, Secretary, Smithsonian Institution:

"This morning I shared with the Board of Regents my decision to replace
"The Last Act: The Atomic Bomb and the End of World War II" (the Enola
Gay exhibition) scheduled to open in May at the National Air and Space
Museum. I have taken this action for one overriding reason: I have
conlcluded that we made a basic error in attempting to couple an
historical treatment of the use of atomic weapons with the 50th
anniversary commemoration of the end of the war."

What a cop-out!  Speaking for myself, the error was not in coupling the
two events but the portrayal of the first use of atomic weapons as
perhaps not necessary, resulting in an unwarrented loss of enemy life,
etc., etc.

"In this important anniversary year, veterans and their families were
expecting, and rightly so, that the nation would honor and commemorate
their valor and sacrifice. They were not looking for analysis, and,
frankly, we did not give enough thought to the intense feelings such an
analysis would evoke."

Presumption to compound the arrogance!  How does he know what they were
looking or not looking for?  Were the "intense feelings" evoked by the
act of the analysis or the method or assumptions used therein or,
ultimately, the conclusions reached?

I think Mr. Heyman should start printing multiple copies of his resume.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 20:50:29 +0700
From:    "Peter E. Beal" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: attempted Japanese coup of August 1945

This episode is also covered in detail in "Japan's Imperial Conspiracy"
by Bergamimi (sp?).

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:03:27 -0500
From:    John Sloan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: POWs

Sidney's post about a video on a POW camp reminds me that I should mention
that my Russian friends have produced a hour or more video on the German POW
camps in Russia during WWII. This is a combination of original documentary
footage, recent footage on the locations and much interviewing recently of
both German prisoners and Russian guards and officials. Quite interesting.
The original is in German. But there is a translation of the entire script.
Now I am asked to find a TV channel or company interested in selling this
after adding a narration of the text in English.  Any ideas??

best wishes

john sloan

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:12:26 -0500
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: WWII-L

> How may I be put on this list?

        Send email to [email-masked] with the following
line in the text:

ADD WWII-L Your full name here
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:32:58 EST
From:    Paul Gregor <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Arizona at Pearl Harbor

Hi All!

An old friend of mine served aboard destroyers and destroyer tenders during
the war (WW II, the big one) He enlisted just after Pearl Harbor and has
been the source of much first hand navy info, but... between us we can't
figure out what the rationale behind what he called "the cage masts" on
the older battleships was. I don't have any good pictures  of the older BB's
in front of me, but it seems I remember there was a superstructure of some
kind supported by the "cage"--can anyone provide more info-like you folks at
the Arizona? I'm not sure that cage mast is even a correct term.

                                                 Thanks in Advance

                                                   Paul Gregor

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 15:49:44 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: P-51s to Russia?

On Sun, 29 Jan 1995, Eric Pass wrote:

> Jack McKillop provided detailed info on my query on the 55 (oer more)
> P47(D's) sent to Russia under Lend-Lease.

I found two sources claiming that 203 were sent, including 7 lost underway
in Persia.

> larger numbers".  I believe typical export procedure is to provide
> less advanced types to allies so why were the relatively new P-47Ds sent?

Perhaps the Soviets expressed a need for high-altitude interceptors? They
built several prototypes of such aircraft. What happed with the Soviet
P-47s is a mystery.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:49:48 EST
From:    Paul Gregor <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Rocket Fighter

Thanks everyone for your copious information on Hans Rudel...Lately
I've had more queries than answers.  Does anyone Know for instance if test
pilot Hanna Reisch (SP?) published memoirs --or where I might learn more
than just snippets about her?

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 15:57:40 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: embarassing question

On Mon, 30 Jan 1995, Mike Yaklich wrote:

Savoia-Marchetti : Sesto Callende and Borgomanero
Caproni: Milan - Taliedo
Piaggio : Genoa, Sestri, Finale
Meriodinale/IMAM : Naples
Saiman: Rome (Lido di Roma seaplane base)
Reggiane: Reggio Emilia

From: Jane's Aircraft of WWII

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 10:00:47 PST
From:    Jim Brady <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

This entire episode bothers me, and I am convinced we all have lost an opportunity. In reading
the list during the last year or so this controversy was raging, I became keenly aware for the
first time of the military predicament involved in taking the island of Japan, and the decision to
drop a new super-bomb as a demonstration of might, which worked. I am also keenly aware of
the horrors the atomic bomb produced -- anticipated and unanticipated -- on civilians, the most
dramatic example in a war in which militaries took war consciously on civilians.

Neither an appreciation for the sacrifice and perils of the fighting men, nor for the terribleness
we should always associate with war, will be effectively communicated by displaying the Enola
Gay and a reel of its crew as just another "weapons delivery system."

This is not presented as an affront to anyone, but to temper the gloating. I am reminded of the
old saying, Be careful of what you want, because you just might get it...

 -- Jim Brady

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:18:45 EST
From:    Roger Coon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Jap POWs in China?

What was the fate of the Japanese army forces in China at the close of
the war?  I know that in parts of the occupied European colonies they
were used to help maintain order and to suppress insurgencies.
        Also, how long did it take to get those forces back to Japan?
Thanks in advance,
Brad Coon

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:17:37 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: embarassing question

Citing from ITALIAN CIVIL AND MILITARY AIRCRAFT 1930-1945 by Jonathan
Thompson (Aero Publishers, 1963... what, you don't OWN this classic???)

Savoia-Marchetti   located at Sesto Calende in Northern Italy

Caproni   main airframe works located at Taliedo, Milan.  Other members
          of the Caproni family were:
          Caproni Vizzola S.A.  at Vizzola Ticino, Varese
          C.N.A. (Compagnia Nazionale Aeronautica)  at Littorio, Rome
          Officine Meccaniche Reggiane S.A.  at Reggio Emilia
          C.A. Bergamaschi (et al)  at Ponte San Pietro, Bergamo
          S.A.I.M.A.N   at Lido di Roma

Piaggio   had factories located at Sestri Ponete (Genoa), Finale-Ligure,
          Pisa, and Pontedero

Meridionale/IMAN   was located in Naples

S.A.I.M.A.N.   9see Caproni family, above--- at Lido di Roma)

Gosh, Mike, sorry I couldn't help more, but we all know Italy's not my
strong suit-- my expertise is in things Romanian.

Speaking of which.......   now that you OWE me, what further information
do you (or, for that matter anyone else) have on the specifications and
armament of the passenger steamers DACIA and RIEGELE CAROL I, both
outfitted as auxiliary minelayers-cum-cruisers by the Royal Romanian Navy
in 1942?  The mention they received in the NEW YORK TIMES only refers to
them being "fitted out" for such service.  Nothing in JANES wartime &
postwar, nor in CONWAY'S (well, they're mentioned there, but no details)
Hey, I know their tonnage, year built, even speed, but how many mines did
they carry?  What deck guns were fitted?

Oh, don't worry about the OTHER steamer outfitted at the time, ROMANIA.
HER I know about--- steamer built 1904, displacing 3,152 tons, 18 knots,
carrying 80 mines and armed with no fewer than four (count 'em-- 4) 20mm
AA (well, okay, probably DP mounted) guns.  It's the OTHER two I need
specs on.

Anyone?   Grazie!  (or would that be grascia?)

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:54:15 -0600
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

> This entire episode bothers me, and I am convinced we all have lost an opportuni
> ty. In reading
> the list during the last year or so this controversy was raging, I became keenly
>  aware for the
> first time of the military predicament involved in taking the island of Japan, a
> nd the decision to
> drop a new super-bomb as a demonstration of might, which worked. I am also keenl
> y aware of
> the horrors the atomic bomb produced -- anticipated and unanticipated -- on civi
> lians, the most
> dramatic example in a war in which militaries took war consciously on civilians.
>
> Neither an appreciation for the sacrifice and perils of the fighting men, nor fo
> r the terribleness
> we should always associate with war, will be effectively communicated by display
> ing the Enola
> Gay and a reel of its crew as just another "weapons delivery system."
>
> This is not presented as an affront to anyone, but to temper the gloating. I am
> reminded of the
> old saying, Be careful of what you want, because you just might get it...
>
>  -- Jim Brady

Controversies, in many respects, are often good things.  If it's a
"legitimate" controversy, then hopefully it sparks discussion and genuine
interest.

The Smithsonian's exhibit looks like it pretty much went full circle.  It
started out terribly one-sided, painting an incorrect, or at least
inappropriate picture.  Through changes, the script improved.  In reality,
my opinion is that the Smithsonian got reasonably close -- perhaps close
enough -- to a balanced and complete display.  These events did change and
shape the world for more than 50 years after.  The ripples will be felt
for many more generations from this and other events.

I know several people who essentially quieted down.  They may still not be
happy with everything in the display, but when given a proper position and
balance, you can take the "bad" with the "good".  (You can't necessarily
have one without the other).  But these same people suddenly saw what they
felt was a spin-on-the-heels and return to some of the very things they
found objectionable in the first place -- such as reducing the estimated
casualty count yet again and historical revisionists claiming victories in
the display.  At that point, many people felt enough was enough and no more
of it would they accept.  I can't say if their opinions were right or wrong,
only that's how they felt.

Now the display is for the most part, scrapped.  I agree an opportunity is
lost, but not entirely.  With luck the discussion that it began will lead
to more interest and discussion -- of facts, not conjecture.

I for one would rather see a display that is balanced.  If that can't be
done, I'd rather see just the hardware and documentation without comment.
Our own annual WWII warbird display is for the most part designed after this
approach -- the planes are here for you to see, along with veterans who flew
them and people who have first hand accounts of life during WWII.  We don't
tell you what was good or bad about the decisions or whehther the B-17 is
better than the B-24 (we all know which one is anyways :-) :-).  We try to
give you the material from which to draw your own conclusions, or at the very
least, to spark the curiosity to want to know more.

That seems to work very well with children and older adults.  The 30-45
crowd seems to be routinely set in their opinions (and I'm one of them :-)

Having not had the pleasure (? :-) of seeing script revisions or even display
designs, I can't honestly say whether a balanced display was ever there or
possible.  I mourn the loss of a large display, but I don't mourn the loss
of anything that is truly inaccurate in facts or presentation.

--
\\ Robert J. Granvin                                 User Services Specialist
// School of Statistics - University of Minnesota            [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:36:46 -0700
From:    Jim O'Neil <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Help for aunt in Westerly RI

>> Cheryl,I can't offer much help [from AZ] but an 81 mm Mortar has a Bipod
>> [two legs that support the tube or barrel]
>
>Here is what the transcription itself says:  " A mortar shell is like a
>little small missile.  You have a base plate, you have a tri-pot [probably
>tripod] and you have a barrow
Barrel
, which would, you would elevate it at the
>distance that you wanted that shell to go...
Actually the distance the shell goes is a function of both elevation and
the powder charge, normally the charge was adjusted for small adjustments
and both for large adjustments in range.
.[You] had the first gunner,
>the second gunner and the third.  That's the three parts.  There were
>three men to a mortar.
To carry it; but there were five or six in the crew. The gunner carries the
sight, the asst gunner the barrel, ammo bearers carry the bipod and base
plate; all carry several rounds of ammo [normally 6-9].

  [Interviewer: What was the firing mechanism?]
>Well, it was like an explosive on the bottom.  You shoot a gun and it has
>a trigger and the trigger detonates [ouch?], your shell has the same thing,
>it hits and then it goes off into the air.  It propels itself....[An 88mm
>shell] is pretty big.  You had the 88mm mortars and you had the 60mm mortars."
It's drop fired, there is a shotgun cartridge [less shot] in the base of
the shell, when the shell is droped down the barrel, the fixed firing pin
hits the primer of the shotgun cartridge, which goes off and sets the rest
of the propellant off.
HOPE THIS CLARIFIES WHAT IS BEING DESCRIBED
>End quote.  I will flag the hard copy of my summary with an "81mm mortar"
>and "tripod or bipod?" queries.
>
>> an Infantry Division runs> around 14,500 men plus equipment... which
>> probably handles the boxcar> question.
>
>Yup, I'd say he meant boxcars plural. (We're translating Rhode Islandese.)
>The situtation with the boxcars is that it took 6 days and 5 nights to
>take a trip across France (from Caen to Metz) that would normally take only
>hours. At times, everyone had to be real quiet on the train to keep "bedcheck
>Charlie" (German reconnaisance) from discovering their presence.
>
>> I can help on some of that technical stuff... the rest is beyond> me.
>> Jim O'Neil
>
>Thanks, Jim, these were two quick examples of me feeling uncomfortable
>about the transcriptions I'm working with.  I know from previous
>interviewing work I've done (with children's authors) that even the
>horse's mouth gets facts confused at times.  I'd *like* to run the 12
>pages of finished summaries past at least one person familiar with
>military stuff before submitting them as "done."  Before some kind person
>volunteers, there are a total of 104 of these narratives (I'm only doing
>six of them).
>
>Westerly is a teeny town but its WWII contributions are significant
>thanks to its Sons of Italy (most of whom came from Calobria in southern
>Italy).
>
>What I can do is upload my summaries to this list (except the Vietnam one
>by an engineer who helped build Highway 20 there) and anyone who wants to
>can comment on them.  Thanks again,
>
>Cheryl                                    [email-masked]
I'll give it a whirl if you like

Jim O'Neil      They don't pay me enough to fight fair!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 13:02:31 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: embarassing question

        Thanks, Steve for both the information and the tip on a better source.
It does sound like a "must have."  PS, any idea where the hell Sesto Calende is
near (must be in Savoia area, I assume).

        Thanks again

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 11:05:42 -0700
From:    Jim O'Neil <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TAC: Aerial Mining

>Jack McKillop's chronology of the AAF recently included a report of B-29's
>mining Saigon, Camranh Bay and Singapore harbors.  Does anyone know how
>they did this?  Did they drop them from 30,000 feet?  Or did they go down
>on the deck?
>
>Generally speaking, what was the tactic for any aircraft dropping mines
>into water?  Low and slow seems most likely, but I'm just curious.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Tim J. Watts
>Valparaiso University
Tim,
I am not an expert, but they need to be dropped fairly low and slow, I
believe a lot of it was done at night. This is from memory , so treat
accordingly. According to Naval Weapons of WW II;John Campbell the B-29
could carry 12, 1,000 lb mines, these were dropped from 5-8000 feet w/
parachutes. I have no information on how slow they had to go to avoid
shredding the parachutes. Someone else?

Jim O'Neil      They don't pay me enough to fight fair!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 13:56:08 -0500
From:    "Matthew R. Burchette" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

Jim,
I totally agree. The Enola Gay and Bock's Car and the ensuing destruction
caused by the bombings are much more than just weapons and delivery systems.
I am a mere 28 years old and my ideas and thought s on the war are tempered
by the fact that I did not live through it and did not see or hear what was
done. The major problem of this exhibit is that the designers were using
their life experiences to view the war. The designers should have consulted
the American Legion sooner and tried to carry one a dialoge with them and
other groups to help all involved understand the focus the museum was taking.
Matthew
Museum Studies Graduate Student
Baylor University, Waco, TX

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 14:05:50 EST
From:    "H. Emery Ford" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Peruvian Ecuadoran War

Greetings!

I have been reading about the skirmishing going on in South America
between Peru and Ecuador.  It was only today that I found out that these
two nations were embroiled in a war in 1941 that was settled by the
Protocol of Rio de Janeiro signed in January 1942.  As I understand it,
almost half of what was once Ecuador was awarded to Peru.

Does anyone else have any info on this war?  Like, how widespread was
the fighting?  What kind of weapons, tanks and aircraft?  Were the Axis
and/or Aliies involved in the conflict in any way, directly or indirectly?
What were the casualties inflicted on each side?

Thanks.

Emery

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 14:27:28 -0500
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Enola Gay Exhibit

I just finished rereading I. Michael Heyman's statement inre: the cancellation
of the Enola Gay exhibit. Is it me, or does he just not get it?

HE states in the second paragraph that veterans and their families "...were
not looking for analysis...". Is this true, or is the fact rather that
many people were offended by the SLANT of their analysis.

He blames the failure fo the exhibit on the concept of combining the use of
atomic weapons and the end of the war. I allways thought it was the SLANT
being placed upon the use of atomic weapons, and the deification of things
Japanese, and the denigration of things US that was the problem.

I agree with his statement that the Institution "has much to learn from the
experience".

                                                                Steve

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 13:50:46 -0600
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN: Air Force moves forward to the past

Sometimes it's fun being a part of a group that seems to be able to pull
off apparent miracles sometime.  :-)  You get several side benefits like
being able to refer to both John Doolittle and Jimmy Doolittle III as if
you really knew them.  :-)

In any case, we have had occasional conversations and correspondence with
Jimmy Doolittle, now in command of part of the test facilities at Edwards
Air Force Base.  When he first told us about his promotion and pending move
to Edwards, he was onboard our B-25, which he had an opportunity to fly.
He indicated that he long felt and believed that pilots firmly needed to
understand how to fly stick-and-rudder in order to learn the true qualities
of flight.

A little blurb got sent past us the other day -- it indicates that Edwards
AFB test program has now implemented new requirements for the test pilots.
While acquisition of aircraft is still in process, the pilots will be
required to be fully competent and checked out in Stearman biplanes and
the P-51 Mustang in addition to a couple of other WWII vintage aircraft.

These airplanes are now required components of at least part of the test
pilot system.

Not only were we impressed that JDIII felt the need to do this, but that
he apparently even pulled it off.

Cool.  :-)

--
\\ Robert J. Granvin                                 User Services Specialist
// School of Statistics - University of Minnesota            [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 15:14:35 -0500
From:    Pat Marsden <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: USN Chronology 01-31-95

On Jan 31,  4:00am, Keller, Theron P. wrote:
>             United States naval vessel sunk:
>              Submarine chaser PC-1119, by suicide boat, Philippine
>               Islands  area,
>               14 d. 05'N., 12O d. 30'E.
>-- End of excerpt from Keller, Theron P.

My curiosity has been piqued.  Does anyone know more about the
suicide boat (type, circumstances of the attack, etc)?
>From the crude map in my office, it looks to have happened just
off Bataan. Was it part of a naval suicide unit operating in the
Philippines or were these the actions of an extremely motivated
captain (and crew)?

patrick

--
Patrick D. Marsden               | Naval Research Laboratory    | Opinions are
Computational Physics, Inc.      | Code 7641                    | mine and mine
Planetary Atmospheres Section    | Washington, D.C.  20375      | alone.
(202)-404-8229                   | [email-masked]  |

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 14:32:25 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Rocket Fighter

Hello, Paul!

I think I can answer your questions about Hanna Reitsch.

> Thanks everyone for your copious information on Hans Rudel...Lately
> I've had more queries than answers.  Does anyone Know for instance if test
> pilot Hanna Reisch (SP?) published memoirs --or where I might learn more
> than just snippets about her?

    Yes. She published four books. You might also get a copy of a
book called "Flying for the Fatherland" which deals exclusively with
this fine aviatrix. I can't think of the author's name, but it is
worth reading.

    She died in the early to mid-1980's from stomach cancer at the
age of 67. She never married and, to my mind, remained a convinced
Nazi to the day she did die. I did correspond with her and have a
full page typed letter from her. She lived outside Frankfurt in
Oberursel, Taunus.

    Hope this has been of help and interest.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 15:21:14 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Battleships

Thank you Robert Holt, Jr.  The 6 Iowas were not laid down to fight
the Russians but the Japanese, the steel and labor shortage put
them on the back burner and delayed when they would be laid down and
finished.  They were ordered in 1940 or 1941 if memory serves.
All six were ordered at the same time, when it was realised that they
would not be finished in time, work stopped, restarted, stopped, restarted
to make them into missile boats, put in reserve, started, stopped, and
finally scrapped.

John E. Kollar

image a broadside of 16 polaris missiles on an Iowa, wow.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 15:41:07 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

About time, they should just fire them all and get a new board,
I saw them on the news and can't believe that those revisionists
are in charge of our national heritage.

John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 14:45:21 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay at the Smithsonian. AGAIN!

Hello, Ben and others!

Yes, it is a sad thing that things have come so far in this country
that a national exhibit, having become the fixation of so much
controversy and revisionism, has had to be cancelled. May it rest
in peace!! I wonder sometimes, what the result might have been had
this exhibit been 1) overlooked by the media which was the cause
of much of this attention, and 2) had been a more local phenomenon
rather than national. Would this have generated as much controversy?
I really doubt it.

It seems to me that we have become victims of too much democracy
where truth and lies are often blurred to the point that the
difference can't be discerned.

Thank you for allowing my two cents' on this.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 15:58:49 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

Jim, all I want is a balanced view, stating that only 70,000 men would
have been killed in an invasion is wrong, and many other mistakes in the
exhibit by revisionists colored it to an absurd amount.  I do feel sad for
what happened, but it should be viewed with the perspective of the history
anmd time when it happened, and with only the standard value judgement
that war is hell and is bad(evil, etc.) not with extra 'spin' by
revisionist hstorians, it doesn't need that to be a sober recollection.

What I want is a somber retelling of what lead up to the human tragedy
of the bombing with the Enola Gay and a matter of fact reasoning why it
was in some demented way neccessary (can a serious military historian
say otherwise?) and include a small shrine at the end for the victims
of the bombing, similar to the one in Hiroshima.  The room would be
subdued, and the end would have no music at all, only silence, for silence
is the most powerful sound, and with the majority of lighting from
a skylight, I don't want banners flying and militant music playing,
I just want an intelligent, thoughtful, and somber display.

John E. Kollar

(sorry for the length)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 16:01:02 EST
From:    Paul Gregor <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Rocket Fighter

Thanks once again Terry....I see and I obey...."Kirk to Enterprise,
Kirk out."

                               Paul Gregor

                               Kent State

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 16:11:33 -0500
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

        The way I perceived the cancellation is that, if the Museum
encounters too much opposition to a certain exhibit, they would
rather cancel it than change it.  What sounded more ominous to me
was the following line:

"Although there will be no formal consultation process for this [new]
undertaking, I will work with whomever I believe necessary to produce
it."

        Considering the bias that has been demonstrated, I wouldn't
be surprised if only similarly "right-thinking" people were believed
"necessary to produce it."
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
Did you ever hear enthusiasm like that in all your life?  They even
have the damn grave diggers in there!  Now that's fighting spirit!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 15:30:18 -0600
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

Ironically, I begin to get a little nervous about our annual static display
coming up.  This year's show (St. Paul Downtown Airport, MN) will have, as
usual, about 3 dozen aircraft.  There are a small number of aircraft and
helicopters of current vintage, Vietnam and Korea.  Many of the aircraft are
flying all day long -- all in the pattern.  This is an operating airport,
so there can be no "demonstrations" or pyrotechnics or other aerial displays.

The largest supply of aircraft, however, is WWII (which is good, because
of the show's name "18th Annual WWII Air Power Display.")

In any case, the uniqueness of this year's show is the date falling on an
important anniversary (the show is August 4, 5 and 6, with the 6th being the
date in question) and the headline aircraft being Fifi, the only (currently)
flying B-29.  (The ramp will also have a B-24 (nee, LB-30) and B-17).  We're
currently trying to see if Paul Tibbetts, who has been at our show before,
has the opportunity to return this year.  Also, we are tracking down the
crew of Bocks Car -- They shouldn't be ignored or forgotten through all of
these anniversaries either.  We honestly don't know whether any of them will
be able to attend, but we've got some good inside tracks and will be trying
our best.

In any case, our display doesn't have the opportunity to preach, even if
wanted to.  The aircraft are simply placed on display.  People come to see
them, tour them, buy beads and trinkets and watch whatever happens to be in
the air.  Music is playing over the loud speakers, we have a missing man
formation each day and a moment of silence and interviews.  Nothing more.

(BTW:  During the last five years at our show, the public's respect has
increased noticeably each year.  Five years ago, during the missing man and
taps, the crowd still milled around, talked, whatever.  Last year was the
first year I saw the ramp -- each of the three days -- go nearly completely
still and, at least two of those days -- completely silent.  Very emotional
change on the part of the general public.)

We'd like to do more, but you know how volunteer organizations can be.  :-)
Far too much to do with far too few people to do it.  Anything we do has to
be simple and uncomplicated.

The B-29 display will also include a large photo board of the Hiroshima and
Nakasaki bombs.  I haven't seen the photos yet, but some of the photos have
(as we've been told) never been published -- apparently someone brought along
a "contraband" camera :-).

The show isn't going to have the opportunity to display the aircraft and
history in as solemn a way as possible.  There will always be activity,
something going on and a lot of people moving around.  Our only real
opportunity is to present the hardware, some of the people and an overview
of the history.  But at the same time, we want to maximize the anniversary
and remembrance.  Therefore, we're looking for any and all opinions and
ideas people have -- even if we can't practically use many of them, we still
want to hear them and maybe those ideas will spark others.  In other words,
it's a net opportunity to help design a display (while at the same time
admittedly helping us raise funds to continue restoring the P-51C, the
PBY-6A and keep Miss Mitchell in top shape...)

Basically:  What would you like to see in this kind of environment?

--
\\ Robert J. Granvin                                 User Services Specialist
// School of Statistics - University of Minnesota            [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 16:36:18 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: embarassing question

        Greg, I've got one or two sources I can check on those ships... will
get back to you this week if I find anything.

        Regards

        Mike

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 15:55:31 CST
From:    "SCHERRER, TIM" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ref Reenacting and USO Shows

Someone sent a note (besides Rob Granvin) and I accidently deleted it.
Can someone remail it to me.  It was there this AM.  thanks--TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 16:03:03 -0600
From:    "Margaret J. McCormick" <[email-masked]>
Subject: ?from high school student JRM

Members of the group,

  If the first bomb was so destructive and awful, why did Japan not
surrender and avoid being bombed again?

  Also, how was radar used during WWII?

I would appreciate any information or opinions on why?  Thank you.
JRM

margaret                                [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 15:49:47 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Hanna Reitsch (WAS Rocket Fighter)

ooh, ooh-- I know this one!

FLYING IS MY LIFE  by Hanna Reitsch.  got a copy at home (195?)

a biog about her was published in the last couple years, but that title
escapes me (or was it a re-titled reprint of her autobiog?)

Only woman to pilot a V-1   (go, Hanna!)

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 22:41:26 +0000
From:    Nechama Cox <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

>I for one would rather see a display that is balanced.  If that can't be
>done, I'd rather see just the hardware and documentation without comment.
>Our own annual WWII warbird display is for the most part designed after this
>approach -- the planes are here for you to see, along with veterans who flew
>them and people who have first hand accounts of life during WWII.  We don't
>tell you what was good or bad about the decisions or whehther the B-17 is
>better than the B-24 (we all know which one is anyways :-) :-).  We try to
>give you the material from which to draw your own conclusions, or at the very
>least, to spark the curiosity to want to know more.

I am not sure why there has to be a lot of commentary.  Why could the
exhibit not just show the pictures, planes etc. and give a running
chronology throughout the exhibit.

As someone who has been wandering around museums a lot lately, I much
prefer the exhibits that give you facts and let you make up your own mind.
(And I am not even in the 30-45 group ;-) )

Why was this not an option?

Nechama Cox
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 16:19:19 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Micro Nations in World War II

I've some bits & pieces regarding Liechtenstein's role during the war--
give me a couple days to find time to post it.....

Does Tannnu Tuva count?

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 18:30:15 -0500
From:    Scott C Stathis <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ?from high school student JRM

>
> Members of the group,
>
>   If the first bomb was so destructive and awful, why did Japan not
> surrender and avoid being bombed again?
>
>   Also, how was radar used during WWII?
>
> I would appreciate any information or opinions on why?  Thank you.
> JRM
>
>
> margaret                                [email-masked]
>

Hi
   Margaret

       Many suspect the reason the Japanese did not surrender after the first
bomb is they were still getting over the intial shock of such mass
destruction and considering the way the government worked they may not
have had time.

      As for rader it saw its first successful use during the Battle of
Britian in 1939-40 during which British early warning posts allow the coast
gave advanced warning of Germany air raids. It was later used on ships,
submarines and planes.

Hope this helps

Scott Stathis

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 16:48:57 -0700
From:    Jim O'Neil <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TAC: Aerial Mining

>>Jack McKillop's chronology of the AAF recently included a report of B-29's
>>mining Saigon, Camranh Bay and Singapore harbors.  Does anyone know how
>>they did this?  Did they drop them from 30,000 feet?  Or did they go down
>>on the deck?
>>
>>Generally speaking, what was the tactic for any aircraft dropping mines
>>into water?  Low and slow seems most likely, but I'm just curious.
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>>
>>Tim J. Watts
>>Valparaiso University
Tim,
More and better data, Mk -12 ,1675 lbs Min speed 110 knts; min altitude is
for the drop is 650 ft and max is whatever you will accept for dispersion -
a parachute slowed deployment
Mk-13, 1025 lbs, min alt 100 ft, max alt 500 ft; max grnd speed is 175
knots drop speed, the optimum was 200 ft and 150 knts.
There are others mentioned, so if a particular mine is of interest, let me know.
        I feel silly replying to my own message, but this is better data.
The source is OPNAV-16-V #A6 dtd March 1944 "Selection of Bombs and Fuzes
to be used against Various Targets"

Jim O'Neil      They don't pay me enough to fight fair!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 19:55:54 CCS
From:    Jorge Merino <[email-masked]>
Subject: TRIV: The Fighting Lady

John B. Davis wrote:

> Outstanding January Films - "Objective Burma" featuring Errol Flyn;
> paratroopers in the Burmese jungle. "The Fighting Lady" photographed by
> Navy photographers and narrated by Lt. Robert Taylor, USNR; life in and out
> of battle aboard a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier. (I assume they are talking
> about the Lexington. Has anyone seen this? - JD)

I haven't seen the film, but....

1. Why do you assume they are talking about the Lexington?
   (The word "Lady", for Lady Lex??)
2. Which Lexington? CV-2 or CV-16?

Just curious....

Jorge Merino

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 18:38:23 EST
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 3rd Army Chronology - 01Feb45

February 1, 1945
D-Day +240

-According to a directive from Twelfth Army Group, the 8th Armored Div
 was relieved from assignment to 15th Army, furtherly relieved from
 attachment to 3rd Army, and was assigned to 9th Army. 95th Inf Div
 was also to move to the 9th Army in total secrecy.

-General Patton formulated an attack involving the 3rd Army against the
 Siegfried Line, but the proposal was shotdown by Bradley who wanted
 to take adavantage of the southerly route by the Roer dams before
 they caused problems similar to two other dam campaigns. "We already
 carried the wounds of two previous assaults against those dam sites;
 I had no wish to add the wounds of a third", said Bradley.

-VIII Corps, 90th Inf Div,358th & 359th Regiments captured Grublangenfeld
 and Heckhuscheid, 4 miles east of the Our River.

-XIX TAC escorted medium bombers on 32 sorties.

-A program to weld 2.5" of armor onto the forward hulls of M4A3 medium
 tanks was initiated. Supplies were gleaned from from various wreckages and
 salvage points and welded by local civilian factories. The added armor
 greatly decreased the vulnerability of the tanks.

"... I had no wish to add the wounds of a third.

  Montgomery, however, put a crimp in our plans. Early in November,
Eisenhower had promised at the start of our winter offensive toward
the Rhine that if First and Ninth Armies did not break free by the turn
of the year, he would pluck Ninth Army out of the 12th Army Group and
give it to Monty for his North-of-the-Ruhr offensive. Monty now held
Eisenhower to his pledge and in anticipation of this British offensive
objected to my proposed "diversion" of First Army through the Eifel. He
insisted that Hodges be shifted back to our pre-Bulge sector where he
would attack to secure those river dams in preparation for Simpson's
crossing. After capturing those dam sites, First Army was then to storm
the Roer and shield Simpson's right flank during the Ninth Army's
advance to the Rhine.

  Eisenhower had little choice but to accede to Monty's demand. Not only
had we failed to meet the January 1st deadline, but our advance toward
the Eifel had been slowed by six foot snow drifts. Furthermore the
Siegfried Line showed no signs of yielding to our initial blows. But in
the Aachen sector high up on the Roer, that line had already been
broken. Consequently on February 4, SHAEF ordered 12th Army Group to
cease its Eifel attack and sideslip First Army north to its December
position on the Roer.

  While I did not relish the dam mission, I could not dispute Ike's
choice. By shunting First Army north, we could link our U.S. strength to
that of the British in a concerted push to the Rhine just below the Ruhr.

  Deprived of his Silesian industry by the Red Army advance, the German
had become more dependent than ever upon the Ruhr. There the enemy had
overcome much of the damage of allied air raids and by a miricle of
improvisation had exceeded his previous peak production in planes and tanks.
If Monty could force his way to the Rhine, he would not only deny that
arterial waterway to the German, but he could easily unlimber his guns
against those industrial plants that crowded a ten-mile belt on the far
side of the river."
                      -Omar Bradley, _A Soldier's Story_

***

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

American Legion, Post 102
I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 17:06:53 -0800
From:    Ed Kettler <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TAC: Aerial Mining

You wrote:

>
>>Jack McKillop's chronology of the AAF recently included a report of
B-29's
>>mining Saigon, Camranh Bay and Singapore harbors.  Does anyone know
how
>>they did this?  Did they drop them from 30,000 feet?  Or did they go
down
>>on the deck?
>>
>>Generally speaking, what was the tactic for any aircraft dropping
mines
>>into water?  Low and slow seems most likely, but I'm just curious.
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>>
>>Tim J. Watts
>>Valparaiso University
>Tim,
>I am not an expert, but they need to be dropped fairly low and slow, I
>believe a lot of it was done at night. This is from memory , so treat
>accordingly. According to Naval Weapons of WW II;John Campbell the B-29
>could carry 12, 1,000 lb mines, these were dropped from 5-8000 feet w/
>parachutes. I have no information on how slow they had to go to avoid
>shredding the parachutes. Someone else?
>
>Jim O'Neil      They don't pay me enough to fight fair!
>
>
The following is from Lessons from an Aerial Mining Campaign, Rand
Report R-1322-PR April 1974.  Tactics used were modified incindiary
bombing techniques using radar from 5 to 6000 feet.

Ed

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 20:16:39 -0500
From:    "Matthew R. Burchette" <[email-masked]>
Subject: V-2 Rocket "Liberations"

Howdy all,
Could someone tell me who captured some of the V-2 rocket sites at the end of
the war? I am aware of the 5AD capturing Nordhausen but am not sure of the
date. Details such as month of capture and where that sites were would be
great.
Thanks beaucoups,
Matthew

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 20:19:04 EST
From:    Charles Mattocks <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Knight's Cross Series

Seen some post concerning the Knight's Cross. The following is extracted
from"On The Field Of Honor: A History of the Knight's Cross Bearers" by LTC John
 R. Angolia.

Grand Cross of the Iron Cross (1939).  Reichsmarschall Hermann Goring received
the Grand Cross on 19 July 1940 for his leadership in the military operations in
the Western Campaigns.  As events would have it, Goring was the sole recipient
of the Order. ....According to an entry dtd 11 March 1940 in the Jodl diary,
Hitler had initially intended that the Grand Cross be constructed with a gold
frame, but after having second thoughts on the matter, decided to keep it in the
tradition of the Iron Cross and retain the silver frame.

Star of the Grand Cross of the Iron Cross (1939).  This decoration never found
its place among the succession of Iron Cross awards.  It was found by a US
Intelligence officers in Austria.  This was only a prototype and never awarded.

Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Golden Oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds.
The "Golden Oakleaves" award was instituted by Hitler on 29 December 1944, and
was presented to Oberst Hans-Ulrich Rudel, famed Stuka pilot, on 1 January 194.
It was initially the intent of the OKW or German High Command that this award be
limited to 12 of Germany's bravest men, but only one was ever bestowed.
 ...... Rudel had flown more than 2400 missions, and had destroyed 463 tanks.
 No other man in German History has accomplished this feat nor achieved this
 level of recognition. ....He was the 10th recipient of the Knight's Cross of
 the Iron Cross with Oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds.

Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds.  Only 27
of this award were rendered; the first going to Luftwaffe ace, Werner Molders,
on 16 July 1941.  The last award, number 27, was presented to General der
Panzertruppen Dietrich v. Saucken on 15 April 1945.  This award was not rendered
to German enlisted men or to any foreign national.

Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oakleaves and Swords.  The first Swords to
be awarded went to Oberstleutnant Adolf Galland on 21 June 1941 when Hitler
personnally presented the award at his headquarters.  When the last award of the
Swords came on 9 May 1945, a total of 159 awards had been rendered.

Iron Cross 1st Class (1939).  An estimated 450,000 awards, to include the 1939
Clasp to the Iron Cross 1st Class (1914) were rendered.

Iron Cross 2nd Class.  An estimated total of 3,000,000 awards were rendered to
Germans and qualified non-Germans.  A total of 27 females received the award.

Hope this helps answer some questions.
Chip
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 20:26:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 1 FEB 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 1 FEBRUARY 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-26, Douglas Invader
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  UC-64, Noorduyn Norseman
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  F-9, Consolidated Liberator
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang
  P-61, Northrop Black Widow

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ZONE OF INTERIOR (ZI): The air echelon of the 19th Photographic Charting
Squadron, 311th Photographic Wing (Mapping and Charting), based at MacDill
Field, Tampa, Florida, begins operating from Accra, Gold Coast photo-mapping
Africa with F-9s.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): 6 B-24s attack shipping off the
French Indochina coast, claiming 1 cargo vessel sunk and a patrol boat
damaged. In China, 4 P-40s attack a division HQ SW of Yungning; the 16th
Fighter Squadron, 51st Fighter Group, based at Chengkung with P-51s, sends a
detachment to operate from Poseh (another detachment is operating from
Laohowkow).

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force): Mission 33: 113 B-29s are dispatched to hit
the naval base at Singapore, Malayan States; 67 bomb the Admiralty IX
Floating Drydock (and a vessel berthed in it) and 21 bomb the West Wall area
of the naval base; 21 others hit alternate targets at Martaban, Burma and
George Town, Malayan States; they claim 3-4-14 Japanese aircraft; 2 B-29s are
lost.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 28 fighter-bombers support
ground forces around Hosi and Molo; 12 B-25s knock out the Mong Pawn bridge;
8 P-47s damage the approach to the Pa-mao bridge; 8 others hit Hsumhsai
Airfield; 90+ fighter-bombers hit troops, supplies, vehicles, a ferry
crossing, and various targets of opportunity at several locations including
Nauchye, Hsenwi, Man Pwe, Pongkalau, Nawng Mawn, Na-lang, Kunhkan, and
Panghtu-Iin. 550 transport sorties are flown to forward areas. The 2d and 4th
Combat Cargo Squadrons, 1st Combat Cargo Group, move from Tsuyung and
Chengkung, China respectively to Dohazari, India with C-47s; the 459th
Fighter Squadron, 80th Fighter Group, moves from Chittagong to Rumkha, India
with P-38s. During Feb 45, the 24th Combat Mapping Squadron, 8th Photographic
Reconnaissance Group, based at Guskhara, India sends elements to operate from
Tulihal and Cox's Bazar, India with F-7s.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  AIRBORNE OPERATIONS (IX Troop Carrier Command): During Feb 45, HQ 438th
Troop Carrier Group and the 87th, 88th, 89th and 90th Troop Carrier Squadrons
move from Greenham Common, England to Prosnes, France with C-47s.

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
  Mission 814: 699 B-17s and 328 P-51s are dispatched to hit rail targets and
bridges in W Germany using Micro-H and H2X radar; no losses:
  1. 463 B-17s are sent to hit the marshalling yards at Mannheim (74) and
Ludwigshafen (70); 270 hit the secondary target, the highway and rail bridge
at Mannheim; targets of opportunity are Pforzheim (11) and other (3); 2 B-17s
are damaged beyond repair and 24 damaged; 3 airmen are WIA. Escorting are 142
of 151 P-51s.
  2. 236 B-17s are send to hit the rail bridge at Wesel (139); 36 hit the
marshalling yard at Krefeld, the secondary target; and 13 hit Barth, a target
of opportunity; 2 B-17s are damaged. 49 of 53 P-51s escort.
  3. 20 of 22 P-51s fly a scouting mission.
  4. 87 of 102 P-51s fly a freelance sweep in support of the bombers.
  Mission 815: 6 of 9 B-24s drop leaflets in the Netherlands, France and
Germany during the night.
  HQ 361st Fighter Group and the 374th, 375th and 376th Fighter Squadrons
move from Little Walden, England to Chievres, Belgium with P-51s (the
squadrons have been operating from St-Dizier, France since 23 Dec 44).

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 146 B-26s, A-26s, and A-20s bomb
rail bridges and defended areas on the Rhine and Mosel Rivers and in W
Germany near the battlefront. The IX and XIX Tactical Air Commands escort the
bombers, fly armed reconnaissance, and in Germany, attack the Euskirchen
marshalling yard and the town of Arloff. In France, HQ 98th Combat
Bombardment Wing (Medium) moves from Athies Airfield, Laon to Havrincourt and
HQ 367th Fighter Group moves from Juvincourt to St-Dizier.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Austria, 300+ B-17s and
B-24s attack the Moosbierbaum oil refinery and the marshalling yards at Graz,
Furstenfeld, and Klagenfurt. 1 bomber bombs Pula, Yugoslavia. P-38s and P-51s
fly 270+ sorties escorting the bombers; other P-38s carry out reconnaissance
and reconnaissance escort missions.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, bad weather curtails
operations; A-20s and medium bombers are grounded and fighters and fighter-
bombers fly only 14 sorties, 12 against communications targets N of the
battle area and 2 weather reconnaissance sorties.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 21 Saipan Island, Mariana Island-based B-24s
hit Iwo Jima Island, Volcano Islands, in the afternoon, and 10 more, flying
individual snooper raids, hit the island during the night of 1/2 Feb. 20
B-24s from Angaur Island, Palau Island, Caroline Islands, bomb Corregidor
Island in Manila Bay, Luzon Island, Philippine Islands. During Feb 45, the
6th Night Fighter Squadron, VII Fighter Command (attached to 318th Fighter
Group) moves from East Field to Kaman Field, Saipan with P-61s (a detachment
is operating from Kipapa, Hawaii); the detachment of the 17th Photographic
Reconnaissance Squadron, 4th Photographic Group (Reconnaissance), operating
from Bougainville Island, Solomon Islands with F-5s, returns to base on
Morotai Island, Moluccas Islands.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: On Luzon Island,
B-24s pound the Canacao Peninsula and Cavite areas; targets include a
shipyard, seaplane base, communications, and supply. B-25s hit Puerto
Princesa on Palawan Island, Philippine Islands. On Formosa, B-24s bomb
Okayama Airfield during the night of 31 Jan/1 Feb and hit Okayama and Heito
Airfields and Toko seaplane base during the following day. The 71st and 823d
Bombardment Squadrons (Medium), 38th Bombardment Group (Medium), move from
Morotai to Lingayen, Luzon with B-25s. During Feb 45, the 160th Liaison
Squadron, 3d Air Commando Group, based at Calasio, Luzon with UC-64 and L-5s
sends a detachment to operate from Mindoro Island, Philippine Islands; the
529th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 380th Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves
from Darwin, Australia to San Jose, Mindoro with B-24s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

01/0124Z FEB

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 20:31:40 EST
From:    Charles Mattocks <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: book reviews, personal experiences

Another book that list some personal experiences is "Panzer Aces" by Franz
Kurowski.  It gives the accounts of Generalmajor Dr. Franz Bake, Oberfeldwebel
Hermann Bix, SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer Rudolf von Ribbentrop, Hauptmann Hans Bolter,
SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer Michael Wittmann, Hauptmann Albert Ernst.

I found the book, good and was easy to read.  Another book that may have
somemore personal experiences would be "Infantry Aces".  Haven't read this one.

I can also say that "The Forgotten Soldier" is good and is on the Commandants
reading list.   I would also recommend "Mustang; a story of a combat Marine", it
was by a Colonel who fought through three wars (WWII, Korea, Vietnam),
unfortunately can't remember his name.  will post later.

Semper Fi!
Chip

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 1 Feb 1995 02:41:07 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ?from high school student JRM

On Tue, 31 Jan 1995, Margaret J. McCormick wrote:

>   Also, how was radar used during WWII?

(1) As ground based radar, detecting aircraft to guide daylight interceptors
    to them. Both the British and the Germans had working warning radars
    in 1940; the Russians began building them in May 1941. As everyone
    nows, the US had radar in Dec. 1941... at Pearl Harbour. The
    information from the radars was plotted (the British used tables, the
    Germans glass windows) and used to direct fighter squadrons. This
    function was decisive in the Battle of Britain.

(2) Ground based radar directing nightfighters. Similar to (1), but
    more complicated. Before they carried radar themselves, the
    nightfighter had to be brought within visual range of the enemy bomber.
    The German 'Himmelbet' system used two radars to direct a single
    fighter to its target. It was not very effective...

(3) Radar sets carried by nightfighter aircraft. Originally this was
    relatively long-wavelength radar, and the nightfighters had a lot of
    external antennas. This type of radar did not work very well at
    close range or low above the ground. Later the British, and at the
    end of the war the Germans, switched to far more effective
    centimetric radar sets, with dish antennas in closed nose cones. Such
    radars made nightfighters far more effective, and night bombing attacks
    became for some time as dangerous as daylight bombing.

(4) Anti-surface vessel radar on board of aircraft. A very important,
    probably decisive weapon in the fight against the U-boats. WWII
    submarines had to surface at night to refresh air and recharge their
    batteries; but patrol aircraft equipped with radar and searchlights
    soon made this a very dangerous affair. Later Germans introduced a
    'schnorkel' (a Dutch invention) that allowed submarines to breathe air
    at periscope depth --- but the 'schnorkel' also showed up on
    centimetric radars.

(5) Tracking and ranging radar on board of ships for use against other
    ships. This was in place relatively early; ships can carry bulky
    radar sets. The 'Bismarck' was hunted down by radar-equipped British
    light cruisers. Radar was used to direct the gunnery, and was also
    very important for the protection of convoys against U-boats.

(6) Navigation radar. The H2S radar set allowed a bomber to 'see' the
    ground through clouds and at night, greatly enhancing navigation.

(7) Proximity fuses. A kind of small radar set which is fitted to an
    anti-air artillery shell, detonating it when it comes near the
    target. This removes the need for a direct hit, or a detonation set
    at an arbitrary altitude.

I am certain that I forgot something...

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 19:42:35 -0600
From:    Ian Wingfield <[email-masked]>
Subject: World War 2 Music

Our school is considering putting together for Canada Remembers(for the
50th anniversary of D day) a musical salute to this event. Can anyone
suggest music for voice and band that might be appropriate. Glen
Millar and singers like Vera Lynn immediately come to mind. What other
music might be considered?

**********************************************************
* Ian Wingfield                                          *
* 447 Emerson Avenue  "A closed mouth gathers no feet"   *
* Winnipeg R2G1G8                                        *
* Manitoba, Canada                                       *
**********************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 21:19:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TAC: Aerial Mining

 >Jack McKillop's chronology of the AAF recently included a report of B-29's
 >mining Saigon, Camranh Bay and Singapore harbors.  Does anyone know how
 >they did this?  Did they drop them from 30,000 feet?  Or did they go down
 >on the deck?
 >
 >Generally speaking, what was the tactic for any aircraft dropping mines
 >into water?  Low and slow seems most likely, but I'm just curious.
 >
 >Thanks in advance.
 >
 >Tim J. Watts
 >Valparaiso University

The B-29s dropped mines with a parachute attached from relatively low
altitudes.  The particular mission you discussed (the night of
25/26 Jan) was a clear night and no enemy aircraft were buzzing
around.  41 aircraft drop mines over Singapore in 6 mine fields; 19
hit Saigon and 6 went to Camranh Bay.  The mines were dropped at
altitudes ranging from 2,000 to 6,000 feet (610 to 1,829 m).

This was a lot different that the mining mission of 10 Aug 44.  On
that date, 8 B-29s had to dive below a 1,000 foot (305 m) ceiling
to lay 16 mines in the Moesi River of Sumatra during the night.

You will hear more about mining operations performed by the B-29.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 21:41:34 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: TAC: AERIAL MINING

You can find a good history of Marine aviators conducting aerial mining in
Robert Sherrod's "History of Marine Corps Aviation in World War II." Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 21:41:55 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: WESTERLY RI ORAL HISTO

Thank you for posting your oral history interview. However, I cannot but note
that oral history as I know and practice it results in a verbatim transcript
rather than a mix of parts of a transcript and interviewer's comments or
paraphrase of the interview. I realize that a transcript of a full interview
would take up considerable space, perhaps you could post it as an enclosure, or
even better, post a listing of the interviews you have conducted, name, rank,
service, and a brief synopsis of each interview. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 21:59:37 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: JAP POWS IN CHINA?

Re/Jap POWs after WWII, I will discuss briefly those who were in North China
when the Marine III Amphibious Corps was sent to Tsingtao (6ht Marine Division)
and Tientsin (1st Marine Division) to take the Japanese surrenders in those two
places because the Kuomintang Army was not in place there. As quickly as
possible, the Japanese were disarmed and sent by LSTs home to Japan. However,
it soon became necessary to rearm them to assist both Marine divisions in
securing their areas from Chinese communist incursions. The Japanese troops did
an excellent job. More about this can be read in "Victory and Occupation," vol
V, "U.S. Marine Corps Operations in World War II," by Frank and Shaw. My
co-author and predecessor as chief historian of the Marine Corps did an
exceptional job on researching and writing that part of the book, an extensive
part, I might say, dealing with the occupation of North China by Marines from
September 1945 until February 1949. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 21:24:14 EST
From:    William Lippert <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: World War 2 Music

On Tue, 31 Jan 1995 19:42:35 -0600 Ian Wingfield said:
>Our school is considering putting together for Canada Remembers(for the
>50th anniversary of D day) a musical salute to this event. Can anyone
>suggest music for voice and band that might be appropriate. Glen
>Millar and singers like Vera Lynn immediately come to mind. What other
>music might be considered?
>
>**********************************************************
>* Ian Wingfield                                          *
>* 447 Emerson Avenue  "A closed mouth gathers no feet"   *
>* Winnipeg R2G1G8                                        *
>* Manitoba, Canada                                       *
>**********************************************************

Bing Crosby is a good artist that sang, among other songs, "Any Bonds Today"
and "White Christmas".
There are many songs that were popular.  Though I'm not sure who the artists
were, and in some cases they were many, here are some songs that I know of
(and have recordings of if you'd like them):

Remember Pearl Harbor
We Did it Before, We Can Do it Again
Umbrella Man
Indian Summer
We'll Meet Again
Bei Mir bis du Schon
They'll be Bludbirds over the White Cliffs of Dover
The Last Time I saw Paris
I don't want to set the world on fire
The Deepest Shelter in Town
A Little Old Church in England
London Pride
Joltin' Joe Dimaggio
Stalin Wasn't Stallin'
This is the Army, Mr. Jones
Ma! I miss your apple pie
Pistol Packin' Mama
When the lights go on again
There won't be a shortage of love
The Fuhrer's Face
You're a Sap, Mr. Jap
FDR Jones
Lili Marlene (originally German, but everyone liked it)
I left my heart at the stage door canteen
Girls, don't refuse to kiss a soldier
Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition
Harlem on Parade
They're either too young or too old
Comin' in on a wing and a prayer
When that man is dead and gone
Atom and Evil
Fightin' Doug MacArthur
Sentimental Journey
My Guy's Come Back

A lot of these are from a CD by Columbia/Legacy called "The Words & Music of
World War II".  The recordings and arrangements are of mediocre quality, but
they are interesting if one doesn't have the originals (like me).  Some of
the songs are genuine war songs.  Others were just popular during the
war.  In general, I think Swing was very popular: Benny Goodman, Orrin Tucker,
Count Basie, etc.
   I note that you are from Canada and I'm sorry that I don't have any songs
from there.  As far as I know, these were very popular in America during
the war - what went on in the rest of the world beats me.  Good luck and I
think it's a great idea.  Wish I could be there.

William Lippert
The American University

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 22:04:00 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: POWS

Try A&E, John, or the Discovery Channel, whose offices, I believe, are in the
area. Ben

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 22:24:17 -0500
From:    Lee Windsor u <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: World War 2 Music

On Tue, 31 Jan 1995, Ian Wingfield wrote:

> Our school is considering putting together for Canada Remembers(for the
> 50th anniversary of D day) a musical salute to this event. Can anyone
> suggest music for voice and band that might be appropriate. Glen
> Millar and singers like Vera Lynn immediately come to mind. What other
> music might be considered?
>
Hello Ian,

How about some of the regimental marches of units in the assault force
like the Queen's Own Rifles or the North Shore Regiment.  If you want, i
can find out the names of the marches for each of the assault units.
Most Canadian Regimental marches are fairly common British marches so the
music shouldn't be too hard to find.  I suppose though, you only want
stuff for arrangements of voice and band together eh?  What about the
musci from "The Longest Day"  There is a soundtrack for it.

Ducimus,

Lee

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 31 Jan 1995 22:27:43 EST
From:    Charles Mattocks <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Congressional Medal of Honor

Sorry this isn't related to the list, but this was mentioned and I felt I should
pass on the information I had on the subject.  Thanks for your patience.

Bill Huber wrote:

> There were a lot of guys who got the KC and over 1000 that got
> oakleaves.  Terry Moore could give you exact numbers on them but what
> stuck in my mind was that 150 awards of the swords and 28 diamonds
> were awarded.  To my knowledge the CMoH was only awarded more than
> once to the same man on two occasions but I could be wrong.

Bill, you are right: General Smedley Darlington Butler, USMC (ret).

He received the first CMH 1914 at Vera Cruz, Mexico as a Major.

He received his second CMH in 1915 at Haiti, as a Major.

Fifteen years earlier, in the Boxer Rebellion, Butler lead a rescue mission that
would have given him another Medal of Honor except for a technicality.  Four
enlisted Marines on the mission received the Medal of Honor, but Butler was
denied one because Marine officers at that time were not eligible for the honor.

He came closer than anyone in history to getting three Congressional Medals of
Honor.  He retired in 1931 as a General and had a 33 year military career.

Semper Fi!!
Chip Mattocks
[email-masked]

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 30 Jan 1995 to 31 Jan 1995
*************************************************