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There are 16 messages totalling 827 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. INFO: Miami Sights?
  2. air attacks- Auschwitz
  3. INF: USN Chronology 01-02-95
  4. TAC: Battle of the Bulge (3)
  5. [INF] USAAF 1 JAN 45
  6. [INF] USAAF 2 JAN 45
  7. [INF] USAAF 3 JAN 45
  8. INF: 50 Years Ago - 03-JAN-1945
  9. Largest AAF Strike (2)
 10. Aol And Delphi (2)
 11. 11th armored div. (2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 1 Jan 1995 23:37:20 -0600
From:    Bill Smith <bismith@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: INFO: Miami Sights?

I'll be here in Miami for the next three days.  Are there any WWII or
aviation-oriented sights to see here?  I vaguely recall something about a
seaplane museum near the Chalks(?) terminal.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 02:16:36 -0500
From:    Thomas Pike <MilArchive@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: air attacks- Auschwitz

I know one recon flight was flown 14 Jan 45 by the US 15th recon squadron.
Photos of Auschwitz/Birkenau were taken (I think inadvertantly)-but they
exist. Try Col Roy Stanley's book WWII "Photo Intelligence."  It may give you
some leads.
I would be interested in any stories you want to share.
Thomas Pike, Wash DC
Archival Research International
MILARCHIVE@AOL.COM

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 04:00:17 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 01-02-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
01/02 Tue.  United States naval vessel damaged
             Oiler COWANESQUE (AO-79), by suicide plane, Luzon area,
              P. I.,
              08 d. 56'N., 122 d. 49'E.
            Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             Coast defense vessel NO. 138, by Army aircraft,
              Philippine Islands area,
              16 d. 37'N., 120 d. 19'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <ljewell@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 08:16:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: TAC: Battle of the Bulge

Thomas Pike writes:
 >
 >Sounds unlikely:
 >1) the 106 ID had landed in Europe only 2 weeks earlier
 >2) The assault largely slipped by allied intel b/c messages weren't sent via
 >ULTRA
 >3) The allied response was not to pinch off the bulge and destroy any
 >surrounded German units, but merely push the German forces back eastward.

It was my understanding that Patton advocated pinching off the
bulge and chewing the Germans up but Eisenhower ordered that the
Germans be pushed back; this resulted in a long, bitter battle that
cost the US Army a lot of casualties due to both weather and the
enemy.

Can anyone explain the pros and cons of these two attack proposals?
Even though I hate "what if" stuff, can anyone speculate on "what
if" Patton's proposal had been pursued?

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 08:40:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 1 JAN 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
MONDAY, 1 JANUARY 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-26, Douglas Invader
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-46, Curtiss Commando
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  F-7, Consolidated Liberator
  Fw 190, Focke Wulf
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  Mosquito, deHavilland
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang
  Spitfire, Vickers Supermarine

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): 5 B-24s fly coverage for a naval force upon
aborting a bomb mission to the Kurile Islands.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 3 B-24s bomb Ft Bayard; 40
P-51s and P-40s pound railroad targets, warehouses, industrial works, and gun
positions from Yoyang to Puchi; 8 P-51s hit Suchow Airfield, claiming 25
aircraft destroyed; 47 other P-40s and P-51s on armed reconnaissance hit
troops, horses, town areas, and rail and road traffic at several locations
especially at Liuchenghsien and between Siaokan and Hsuchang; a detachment of
the 16th Fighter Squadron, 51st Fighter Group, begins operating from Laohokow
with P-51s (squadron is based at Chengkung; another detachment is at
Kwanghan); during Jan 45, the detachment of the 25th Fighter Squadron, 51st
Fighter Group operating from Poashan with P-51s moves to Leangshan; the 26th
Fighter Squadron, 51st Fighter Group sends detachments to operate from Poseh,
Liangshan and Laohokow with P-51s; and the detachments of the 528th Fighter
Squadron, 311th Fighter Group, operating from Hanchung and Liangshan with
P-51s, return to base at Shwangliu.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 71 P-47s and P-38s attack
villages, general supply areas, fuel dumps, tanks and other vehicles, and
troop concentrations at several locations including Man Hio, Bahe, Mongmit,
Hatka, Namhpakka, Loi-hseng, Mong Yaw and in the Hsenwi area, 4 others hit
targets of opportunity along the Irrawaddy River from Tanaung to Kyungyi; 4
B-25s harass communications lines during the night of 1/2 Jan.  Large-scale
air transport operations continue. The 14th and 15th Combat Cargo Squadrons,
4th Combat Cargo Group, move from Sylhet to Argartala, India with C-46s.
During Jan, the detachment of the 436th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 7th
Bombardment Group (Heavy), based at Luliang, China with B-24s ferrying
gasoline to Suichwan, China, returns to base at Madhaiganj, India.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
  Mission 774: 845 bombers and 725 fighters are dispatched to hit oil
installations and rail bridges and junctions in W Germany visually and by
PFF; they claim 23-1-3 Luftwaffe aircraft including a jet fighter; 8 bombers
and 2 fighters are lost:
  1. 451 B-17s are sent to hit an oil refinery at Magdeburg (11); secondary
targets are the Henschel marshalling yard at Kassel (292) and the Gottingen
marshalling yard (26); targets of opportunity are Hadamar (12), Wetzlar (12),
Dillenburg (15), Koblenz (11), Wetter (12), Limburg (8), Kirchbunden (7) and
other (22); 2 B-17s are lost, 3 damaged beyond repair and 71 damaged; 10
airmen are KIA, 8 WIA and 18 MIA. Escorting are 327 of 374 P-51s; they claim
17-1-1 aircraft; 2 P-51s are lost (pilots MIA) and 1 damaged beyond repair.
  2. 109 B-17s are dispatched to hit oil industry targets at Dollbergen (54)
and Ehmen (24); targets of opportunity are the Koblenz marshalling yard (12),
Limburg (4) and other (5); 3 B-17s are damaged beyond repair and 43 damaged;
10 airmen are KIA. Escort is provided by 199 P-47s and P-51s without loss.
  3. 273 B-24s hit the Lutzel (56) and Guls (30) rail bridges at Koblens, the
Irlich rail bridge (57) and the Remagen rail bridge (6); targets of
opportunity are Andernach (26), Engers rail bridge (9), Trier (1) and others
(6); 1 B-24 is lost, 4 damaged beyond repair and 63 damaged; 20 airmen are
KIA, 8 WIA and 10 MIA. The escort is 66 of 70 P-51s without loss.
  4. 12 of 12 B-17s fly a screening force mission; they are 8 minutes late
for their escort and are attacked by Fw 190s when 50 miles (80 km) ahead of
the bombers; they claim 6-0-2 aircraft; 5 B-17s are lost and 1 damaged beyond
repair; 45 airmen are MIA. Escort is supposed to be 23 of 26 P-51s.
  5. 2 of 5 B-17s fly an APHRODITE mission against Oldenburg without loss.
  6. 11 of 11 P-51s escort 9 F-5s and 1 Spitfire on a photo reconnaissance
mission over Germany without loss.
  7. 25 P-47s and P-51s escort 3 of 4 Mosquitoes on a special operations
mission without loss.
  Mission 775: 5 B-24s and 3 B-17s drop leaflet on Belgium and Germany during
the night without loss.
  The 1st, 2d and 3d Bombardment Divisions are redesignated 1st, 2d and 3d
Air Divisions.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): The Luftwaffe launches an attack of
700-800 aircraft against Ninth AF and Allied airfields, mainly in the
Brussels, Belgium and Eindhoven, the Netherlands areas, and to a lesser
degree in the Metz, France area; 127 operational Allied aircraft are
destroyed; Allied fighters claim 160 air victories while AA claims 300. 190
A-20s, A-26s, and B-26s hit rail bridges, communications centers, a road
junction, a command post, and HQ, all in Belgium and Germany; fighters escort
9th Bombardment Division and Eighth AF bombers, fly patrols, sweeps, and
armed reconnaissance (claiming 39 air victories and numerous ground targets
destroyed) and support the US III, VII, and XII Corps between Saint-Hubert,
Belgium and the Mosel River, Germany. In France, the detachment of the 72d
Liaison Squadron, Ninth AF (attached to Sixth Army Group), ceases operating
from Steinbourg with L-5s and returns to base at Buhl. During Jan 45, HQ XIX
Tactical Air Command moves from France to Luxembourg.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Unfavorable weather permits
only P-38 reconnaissance flights.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, medium bombers attack
bridges at Palazzuolo sull'Oglio, Parma, and Calcinato (the latter 2 targets
are missed) and an ammunition dump at Parma; fighter-bombers support ground
forces S of Bologna, hit communications and numerous targets of opportunity
to the N and completely destroy a fuel dump at Parma; A-20s on intruder
missions during the night of 31 Dec/1 Jan, achieve excellent results on a
motor park near Molinella and hit a marshalling yard near Milan. HQ 319th
Bombardment Group (Medium) departs Corsica for the US where it converts to
A-26 aircraft in preparation for assignment to the Pacific.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 19 B-24s from Saipan Island, Mariana Islands,
bomb Iwo Jima Island, Volcano Islands; 9 more, during snooper missions on the
night of 1/2 Jan, hit the island at varying intervals.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: In the Philippine
Islands, B-25s and fighter-bombers make low level attacks on Negros Island
airfields; B-24s, with P-38 cover, bomb Clark Field on Luzon Island and
others  pound the Sasa area on Mindanao Island. On Halmahera Island, B-24s
along with B-25s hit Djailolo, Wasile Bay bivouac areas, and Miti ammunition
dump. B-25s bomb airfields on Ceram Island and barracks at Laoag on Luzon
Island. Fighter-bombers are active against targets in the Manila area on
Luzon Island and also hit Silay on Negros Island. Airfields, shipyards, and
other targets in the Borneo, Celebes and Lesser Sunda Islands also sustain
light raids, by FEAF fighters and bombers, which also fly armed
reconnaissance. HQ 345th Bombardment Group (Medium) moves from Dulag to
Tacloban, Leyte Island. During Jan 44, the detachment of the 4th Photographic
Charting Squadron, 311th Photographic Wing [attached to 4th Photographic
Group (Reconnaissance)] ceases operating from Morotai Island, Moluccas
Islands, with F-7s and returns to base at Hollandia, New Guinea; at the same
time, a detachment of this squadron begins operating in Australia during the
month (this squadron is mapping areas of the SW and W Pacific); the
detachment of the 64th Troop Carrier Squadron, 403d Troop Carrier Group,
operating from Noemfoor Island returns to base on Biak Island with C-47s.
During Jan, the 8th Combat Cargo Squadron, 2d Combat Cargo Group, moves from
Finschhafen, New Guinea to Biak Island with C-46s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

02/1341Z JAN

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 08:50:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 2 JAN 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
TUESDAY, 2 JANUARY 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-26, Douglas Invader
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  C-46, Curtiss Commando
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang
  Spitfire, Vickers Supermarine

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): 6 B-25s bomb Kentung, Burma. 30+
P-40s and P-51s on armed reconnaissance attack targets of opportunity, mainly
railroad traffic, at or near Lohochai, Pengpu, and Sinyang, China; and Man
Pong, Wanling, and Wan Pa-Hsa, Burma.

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force): Mission 24: 49 B-29s, operating from the
Calcutta, India area, are dispatched to attack a railroad bridge at Bangkok,
Thailand; 44 hit the primary target and 2 hit an alternate and a target of
opportunity; they claim 0-1-1 Japanese aircraft.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, troop concentrations and
supplies are attacked at Mabein, Panghka, Mansut, Letpangon, Loi-mun,
Panghkai, Namhsan, Thabeikkyin, and in the Lashio area by 66 P-47s and 13
P-38s. 546 transport sorties are flown to forward bases and frontline areas.
In India, the 13th Combat Cargo Squadron, 4th Combat Cargo Group, moves from
Sylhet to Agartala with C-46s.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
  Mission 776: 1,011 bombers and 503 fighters are dispatched to attack
communications and tactical targets in W Germany visually and using Gee-H; 4
bombers and 3 fighters are lost:
  1. 299 B-17s are dispatched to hit the Gerolstein marshalling yard (74) and
communications centers are Mayen (68), Prum (34), Daun (34), Kyllburg (37)
and Bitburg (36); 3 others hit a target of opportunity; 70 B-17s are damaged.
Escorting are 128 of 130 P-51s; 1 P-51 is lost (pilot MIA) and 1 damaged
beyond repair.
  2. 296 B-24s are dispatched to hit the Lutzel (65) and Guls (59) rail
bridges at Koblenz plus rail bridges at Irlich (59), Remagen (56) and Engers
(43); 3 others hit a target of opportunity; 1 B-24 is damaged beyond repair
and 26 damaged. The escort is 215 P-47s and P-51s without loss.
  3. 410 B-17s are sent to hit marshalling yards at Bad Kreuznach (73) and
Ehrang (66), a rail junction at Bad Kreuznach (67), a rail bridge at
Kaiserslautern (34) and tank concentrations at Lebach (128); targets of
opportunity are marshalling yards at St Wendel (11) and Trier (3) and other
(3); 4 B-17s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 36 damaged; 10 airmen are
KIA, 2 WIA and 37 MIA. Escort is provided by 125 of 127 P-51s; 2 P-51s are
lost (pilots MIA).
  4. 6 of 6 B-17s fly a screening force mission.
  5. 23 P-51s escort 6 F-5s and a Spitfire on a photo reconnaissance mission
over Germany.
  Mission 777: 2 B-17s and 6 B-24s drop leaflets in France and Germany during
the night.
  HQ VIII Air Force Services Command (Advanced) is established in Brussels,
Belgium, along with a "Far Shore" staff division; through this HQ, the
Commanding General Air Force Services Command can administer his command and
closely communicate with other commands operating on the Continent; this
arrangement functions until 29 Apr 45 when it is relieved by the 5th
Strategic Air Depot at Merville, France.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS

    First Tactical Air Force (Provisional): The 314th, 315th and 316th
Fighter Squadrons, 324th Fighter Group, move from Tavaux to Luneville, France
with P-47s.

    Ninth Air Force: 135 A-20s, A-26s, and B-26s hit rail bridges and
communications centers in Belgium and Germany; fighters escort the 9th
Bombardment Division, fly patrols, sweeps, and armed reconnaissance and
support the US III and VIII Corps in the Bastogne, Belgium area and the XII
Corps S of the Clerf River, Luxembourg, and W of the Sauer River in Germany.
The 72d Liaison Squadron, Ninth AF (attached to Sixth Army Group), moves
from Buhl to Epinal, France with L-5s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Bad weather restricts
operations to reconnaissance flights,

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, fighter-bombers
concentrate their effort in the W Po Valley and Brenner area, claiming large
number of rail lines cut and many vehicles and trains destroyed and damaged;
the Milan marshalling yard is hit hard and good coverage is achieved on
support targets in the US Fifth Army battle area; A-20s during the night of
1/2 Jan, continue intruder missions over the Po Valley; the 84th and 86th
Bombardment Squadrons (Light), 47th Bombardment Group (Light) move from
Rosignano Airfield to Grosseto with A-20s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 12 Guam Island-based B-24s hit Haha Jima Island
in the Bonin Islands while 14 others pound Iwo Jima Island; during the night
of 2/3 Jan, 10 B-24s, flying snooper strikes out of Guam, hit Iwo Jima over a
7-hour period.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: P-38s and A-20s hit
shipping in San Fernando harbor on Negros Island; on Luzon Island, B-24s
pound Clark Field and B-25s hit Batangas; airfields in the C Philippine
Islands area are bombed by B-25s, A-20s, and fighter-bombers while B-24s
strike Likanan on Mindanao Island; Menado on Celebes Island; and the Wasile
Bay area on Halmahera Island. Other FEAF aircraft make armed reconnaissance
and harassing strikes on targets of opportunity throughout the C Philippine
Islands area and the Netherlands East Indies. The 8th Fighter Squadron, 49th
Fighter Group, moves from Tacloban, Leyte Island to San Jose, Mindoro Island
with P-38s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

02/1351Z JAN

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 08:59:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 3 JAN 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
WEDNESDAY, 3 JANUARY 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  UC-64, Noorduyn Norseman
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  L-1, Stinson Vigilant
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): B-25s fly coverage for a naval force over the
Kurile Islands.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 10 P-51s hit the airfield
at Tsinan, claiming 13 aircraft destroyed; 6 P-51s claim several river
steamers sunk in the Hankow-Chiuchiang area while 6 others damage bridges at
Chinchengchiang. 20+ other P-40s, P-51s, and P-47s on armed reconnaissance
attack various targets of opportunity in the Wuchang-Hankow and Shwangliu,
China areas, and at Namtao, S and SW of Man Pong, and W of Wanling, Burma.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 10 B-25s, supported by 12
P-47s, attack the airfield at Aungban; troop concentrations and supply and
ammunition dumps are pounded at several locations, including Man Kun, Loi
Hkam,  Ngawnga, Chakau, Mulaw, and Man Pwe. 575 transport flights are
completed to forward areas; the 115th Liaison Squadron, Tenth AF [attached to
1st Liaison Group (Provisional)], based at Ledo, India, sends a detachment to
operate from Myitkyina with L-1s and L-5s; the 165th Liaison Squadron
(Commando), 1st Air Commando Group, based at Kawlin, sends a detachment to
operate from Inbaung with UC-64s and L-5s.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 778: 1,168 bombers and 589
fighters are dispatched to attack rail and communications targets in W
Germany; all are PFF attacks using H2X, Gee-H and Micro H; they claim 4-0-0
Luftwaffe aircraft; 4 fighters are lost:
  1. 417 B-17s are sent to hit marshalling yards at Fulda (141) and
Aschaffenburg (124) and communications centers at Gemund (38) and Schleiden
(36); the Mosel marshalling yard at Koblenz, a secondary target, is hit by 36
bombers; targets of opportunity are the Pforzheim marshalling yard (25) and
other (3); 1 B-17 is damaged; 2 airmen are WIA. Escort is provided by 219 of
227 P-51s; they claim 4-0-0 aircraft; 1 P-51 is lost (pilot MIA) and 4
damaged beyond repair.
  2. 325 B-24s are dispatched to hit marshalling yards at Altstadt (31),
Homburg (41), Zweibrucken (55), Neunkirchen (84), Landau (59) and the
Pirmasens railhead (41); 2 B-24s are damaged beyond repair and 1 damaged.
Escorting are 143 of 148 P-51s.
  3. 421 B-17s are sent to hit the Hermulheim W (72) and E (36) marshalling
yards, a communications center at St Vith, Belgium (98), and rail junctions
at Mondrath (36) and Horrem (1); 100 B-24s hit the secondary target, Cologne;
targets of opportunity are Rheydt (10) and other (3); 11 B-17s are damaged.
The escort is 145 of 150 P-51s; 3 P-51s are lost (pilots MIA).
  4. 32 of 32 P-51s fly a scouting mission.
  5. 32 of 32 P-51s escort 5 F-5s on a photo reconnaissance over Germany.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): All combat operations are cancelled
because of weather.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Bad weather curtails operations
for the fifth successive day. P-38s fly photo and weather reconnaissance
missions.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, medium bombers score
direct hits on 2 railroad bridges at Lavis and fly good coverage of the
Chiusaforte, Canale d'Isonzo, and Padua railroad bridges; fighter-bombers hit
a large number of communications targets (mainly railroad targets) in the Po
Valley which is also subjected to intruder missions during the night of 2/3
Jan, when pontoon bridges, vehicles, and Ghedi Airfield are hit.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 22 B-24s from Saipan Island bomb Iwo Jima
Island. 3 from Guam Island, on armed reconnaissance, hit Marcus Island in the
North Pacific. During a 6-hour period on the night of 3/4 Jan, 10 B-24s from
Guam hit Iwo Jima.

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force): Mission 17: 97 Mariana Island-based B-29s are
sent to bomb docks and urban areas of Nagoya, Japan; 57 hit the primary
target and 21 others bomb alternates and targets of opportunity; Japanese
fighters fly 300+ attacks on the B-29s and 5 are lost; B-29 gunners claim
14-14-20 Japanese aircraft.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s pound Clark
Field and the Mabalacat areas on Luzon Island. B-25s hit 5 airfields in the C
Philippine Islands while B-24s bomb 2 on Mindanao Island. B-24s attack
the Djailolo supply area on Halmahera Island, while B-25s bomb Namlea
Airfield on Buru Island. Numerous other FEAF aircraft on armed
reconnaissance, harassing raids, and light strikes attack a vast variety of
targets throughout the Netherlands East Indies and Philippine Islands. The
25th Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron, 6th Photographic Reconnaissance
Group, moves from Dulag, Leyte Island to San Jose, Mindoro Island, Philippine
Islands with F-5s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

02/1359Z JAN

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 06:08:28 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 03-JAN-1945

On 03-JAN-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The 1st Army starts a counteroffensive to reduce the German
salient in the Ardennes. The VII Corps attacks southeast towards
Houffalize. The 2nd Armoured Division captures Trinal, Magoster, positions
in Bois de Tave, Freineux, Le Batty and positions near Belle Haie. The 3rd
Armoured Division takes Malempre and Floret and continues southeast on the
Lierneux road to Groumont Creek. The 75th Division continues mopping up
south of Sadzot. The 82nd Airborne Division pushes southeast improving its
positions. As a diversion, the 30th Division pushes small forces south of
Malmedy and then withdraws them as planned.

In the 3rd Army sector, units of the 87th Division are temporarily
surrounded in woods east of St Hubert. The 17th Airborne Division attacks
north late in the day in an area 5 miles northwest of Bastogne. Northeast
of Bastogne, the 101st Airborne Division are clearing Bois Jacques. Units
of the 4th Armoured Division continue to defend the corridor into Bastogne.
The 6th Armoured Division repels German thrusts west of Michamps. The 35th
Division gains about two thirds of Lutrebois. The 26th Division continues
its attack in the region north of Mecher-Dunkrodt and Kaundorf.

In the 7th Army sector, the XV Corps withstands further pressure on the
left and slightly improves its position. The Germans deepen their
penetration at the boundary between the 44th and 100th Division and enter
Aachen, from which they are subsequently ousted in a counterattack. In the
VI Corps area, the Germans expand the Bitche salient, entering Wingen and
Philippsbourg. The 45th Division withstands pressure against
Reipertsweiler, northwest of Wingen and contain attacks in the
Sarreinsberg-Meisenthal area.

Italian Front - In the Canadian I Corps area, the 5th Armoured Division
reaches Canale di Bonifica Destra del Reno as it continues northward. The
1st Division begins an attack to clear an enemy pocket betwen it and the
British IV Corps in the Cotignola area, crossing the Naviglio Canal and
taking Granarolo. In the V Corps area, elements of the 56th Division and
7th Armoured Brigade push northward from Felisio, clearing the Senio bank
as far north as S. Severo.

Philippines - On Mindoro, a guerrilla force of about 70 unsuccessfully
attack the Japanese at Pinamalayan.

Burma - The XV Corps invades Akyab Island on the Arakan coast. The British
2nd Division occupies Ye-u.

Formoso - In preparation for the invasion of Luzon, carrier planes from the
3rd Fleet begin attacks aimed primarily against Japanese aircraft and
shipping at Formosa. A secondary effort is also made against the Ryukyus
and Pescadores. Bad weather severly limits the scope of operations. The
escort carrier Sargent Bay is damaged in a collision.

China - On the Salween front, the Chinese 9th Division breaks into Wanting
at the Sino-Burmese border, but is driven out in a night counterattack.

Army & Navy
-----------
Ploesti Attack Losses Reported - Lt. Gen. Ira C. Eaker, commander of the
Mediterranean Allied Air Forces, has revealed that more than 2,200 airmen,
mostly Americans, are missing from the series of attacks made on Rumania's
Ploesti oil fields last year. The U.S. 15th Air Forces lost 270 planes in
the attacks.

Plane Production - The War Production Board's year-end report says 96,369
aircraft were built in 1944.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 09:21:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: Largest AAF Strike

 >A curious question:  How does this day's events rank "all time."  Does
 >the USAAF/USAF have days since that exceed this strike?  Do other air
 >forces?  In ignorance, I'd venture nearly 3,000 aircraft would top all.
 >
 >On Fri, 23 Dec 1994, mc killop wrote:
 >
 >> For those of you who do not read my USAAF Combat Chronology, today, 24 Dec
 >> 44, the USAAF flew it's largest air strike of WWII; the Eighth Air Force,
 >> one of two USAAF air forces in W Europe and one of four in Europe,
 >> dispatched 2,899 aircraft to attack targets in W Germany.  The details
 >> are:

I did not say "all time;"  I said that "the USAAF flew it's largest air
strike of WORLD WAR II."
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^

If you only consider aircraft, I doubt if there has been a larger strike
since.  Today, the entire US Air Force only has about 6,000 aircraft and that
includes bombers, cargo aircraft, fighters, recon, trainers, etc.  ON this
date in history, one air force (the Eighth) flew almost 2,900 sorties; the
tactical air force in W Europe (the Ninth), flew 1,500+ sorties.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 07:32:59 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <RIEGSECKER@UPS.EDU>
Subject: Re: TAC: Battle of the Bulge

>From:         "SGM Robert S. Rush" <rushr@MEADE-EMH1.ARMY.MIL>
>Subject:      Re: TAC: Battle of the Bulge
>To:           Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <WWII-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
>

[...]
>
>Point 2 is the rationale Dupuy, in Hitler's Last Gamble, gives for Sibert
>the 12th Army Group intelligence officer discounting the warning signs
[...]
>By the way, has anyone else read Dupuy's book.  Would like your comments.
>Parts are pretty good, but am having trouble with his bibliography. (Can't
>find where he is getting some of his assertions)

I have a book on my to read list called _Hitler's Last Gamble, The
Battle of the Bulge_, by Jacques Nobecourt (accent on the e).  Are Dupuy
and Nobecurt one and the same or do we have two authors and identical
book titles?

John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

riegsecker@ups.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 11:18:18 EST
From:    "SGM Robert S. Rush" <rushr@MEADE-EMH1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: TAC: Battle of the Bulge

John,
It appears there are two authors with the same main title.  The
complete title for Dupuy's book is Hitler's Last Gamble, The Battle
of the Bulge, December 1944-January 1945, copyright 1994 by HarperCollins

Nothing like trying to confuse the reading public :)

Rob

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 10:51:04 MST
From:    Eric Pass <epass@NYX.CS.DU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Largest AAF Strike

Jack McKillop (in his excellent chronology of the USAAF) notes:

JK> ON this date in history, one air force (the Eighth) flew almost
JK> 2,900 sorties; the tactical air force in W Europe (the Ninth),
JK> flew 1,500+ sorties.

The question was raised about how this might compare in the
sense of largest number of sorties (daily( of all time).

Perhaps someone could contrast this this with say, the number of
sorties flown the first night of desert Storm?  This would provide
a basis for comparison.  Anyone have the numbers handy?

Eric (epass@nyx.cs.du.edu)

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 14:15:00 -0600
From:    George Bauer <george.bauer@CITYNET.COM>
Subject: Aol And Delphi

I am considering America On Line and Delphi for internet access.
But I do not like giving them my credit card number.  Any advice?
Any experiences you can tell me, either good or bad?

Reply privately if you prefer.
         george.bauer@citynet.com

 * RoboBOARD/FX 1.04

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:03:50 -0500
From:    "Arthur D. Venzin" <VENZIN@CALVIN.CC.DUQ.EDU>
Subject: 11th armored div.

well here I go again. Please forgive me ... i'm trying!!!
 0 S~& @-#Y1~.&*jJ
 0 S~& @-#Y1~.&*jJ
 > ETransfer aborted by remote R

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:10:04 -0500
From:    "Arthur D. Venzin" <VENZIN@CALVIN.CC.DUQ.EDU>
Subject: Re: 11th armored div.

sorry about that

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 20:20:42 -0800
From:    Jaimie Crafton <JaimieC@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Aol And Delphi

You wrote:

>
>I am considering America On Line and Delphi for internet access.
>But I do not like giving them my credit card number.  Any advice?
>Any experiences you can tell me, either good or bad?
>
>Reply privately if you prefer.
>         george.bauer@citynet.com
>
> * RoboBOARD/FX 1.04
>
>

I've been a past subscriber of most all the on-line services including a
couple of BBS's and unfortunately, billing by credit card has been the
only means of payment provided.  Also, unless you have specific needs
from the above mentioned services other than an internet access, I would
consider looking into a more economical internet provider.  There are
alot of them out there.  I'm presently using netcom, which provides full
internet access for under $20/month for 40 hours prime time, unlimited
off time (which includes weekends).

Hope this helps.


Jaimie

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 1 Jan 1995 to 2 Jan 1995
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 14 messages totalling 473 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Aol And Delphi (2)
  2. QUEST Commissioning Stripe
  3. <No subject given> (2)
  4. INF: USN Chronology 01-03-95
  5. INF: 50 Years Ago - 04-JAN-1945
  6. Untold Stories f/TLD, Pt. 8 (2)
  7. African POWs in Europe
  8. Revisionism, Again (2)
  9. Enola Gay Exhibit
 10. IJN Radio Silent to Pearl Harbor

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Jan 1995 00:29:15 -0500
From:    John Sloan <JohnS426@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Aol And Delphi

To George BAuer and others cosidering commercial services.
I happen to use AOL and have been pleased. I have paid via my Visa for nearly
2 years and have not seen any mistakes in the account. According to several
articles on INTERNET in various magazines AOL still has an easier interface
than Delphi, but I have not seen Delphi of course.  We have a "flashmail"
capability that enables me to set up an automatic log on - download mail - log
 off that pulls in all the mail much more rapidly than I could do it manually
looking at each item. I set it for the wee hours and am on and off in a
couple of minutes even with dozens of mail items. It also automatically upload
s my outgoing at the same time. The connection is at 14400 baud. You might
read some of the reviews in PC World and other mags to compare the content of
the two services. I know on AOL we have vastly more than I could ever
investigate let alone use by way of financial advice, general news,
specialized magazines, etc etc.
I spend most of my time acting as an academic tutor for the huge educational
assistance program. We have over 700 teachers and the total system handles
hundreds of student questions a day. Actually, one can log onto AOl academic
assistance by sending email to HOMEWORK24@aol.com and tap into it from
outside AOL. The mail box will take 550 messages. There is no extra charge
beyond the basic time charge for INTERNET or any other of the departments. So
far we have newsgroups, some gopher and some FTP but not all as yet. They are
promissing WWW and full services shortly.
hope this helps some.

john sloan

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Jan 1995 00:34:54 EST
From:    "Carl Wernke - TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET" <TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET>
Subject: QUEST Commissioning Stripe

 John A., Bill H., Jim A.  Posts of 30 Dec 1994

 Commission Pennant

 Every Navy ship in commission flies the commission pennant except when the
 pennant is replaced by a personal flag or command pennant or on hospital
 ships when it is replaced by the Red Cross flag. With these exceptions it is
 the distinguishing mark of a Navy ship in commission but without a flag
 officer or other commander embarked.

 The commission pennant itself is an elongated pennant with a swallow-tailed
 fly. That portion near the hoist consists of a blue field upon which is
 superimposed seven white 5-pointed stars in a row, each of the stars has
 one point upward. The number of stars in the commission pennant have no
 meaning whatsoever. The remaining portion of the pennant is horizontally
 divided into a red upper portion and a white lower portion with the last
 few inches split to form the swallow-tail. This pennant is available in two
 sizes, 6 and 7.

 The commission pennant is flown at the after truck of a naval ship, or, in
 a mastless ship, at the loftiest and most conspicuous point of hoist. It is
 also flown from the bow of a boat when a commanding officer not entitled to
 a personal flag is embarked on an official visit. While the pennant is not a
 personal one, it is sometimes regarded as the personal symbol of the
 commanding officer.

 A size 6 commission pennant is 6 ft. long, used on large ships, a size 7 is
 4 ft. long.

 The "homeward bound" pennant is divided vertically into two parts: that
 portion next to the hoist is blue and the fly is divided horizontally into
 halves, the upper red and the lower white. In the blue portion is placed
 one white star for the first year that the ship has been continuously on
 duty in foreign waters outside the continental limits of the United States,
 plus one additional white star for each additional 6 months. The over-all
 length of the pennant was normally 1 foot for each officer and man on the
 ship who has been on duty outside the United States in excess of 1 year.
 Where this produces a pennant excessively long, its length is kept within
 practical limits.

 Upon arrival in a port of the United States, the blue portion containing
 the star or stars is presented to the commanding officer. The remainder of
 pennant is divided equally among the officers and men of the ship's company.

 Carl Wernke USN (Ret)           Tidewater Community College
                                 History Instructor
                                 Portsmouth, VA

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:01:42 -0700
From:    Colin Mcdonald <cmcdonal@GPU.SRV.UALBERTA.CA>
Subject: <No subject given>

 Unsubscribe Colin McDonald

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Jan 1995 04:00:23 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 01-03-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
01/03 Wed. Aircraft from fast carrier task force (Vice Adm. J. S.
           McCain),commence 2-day strike on Japanese shipping and
           aircraft in the Ryukyu Islands and Formosa.
            United States naval vessels damaged:
             Escort carrier SARGENT BAY (CVE-83) and destroyer
              escort ROBERT F. KELLER (DE-419), by collision,
              Philippine  Islands area.
             Minelayer MONADNOCK (CM-9), by collision, Luzon area,
              P. I.,
              12 d. 22'N., 121 d. 01'E.
            Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             Submarine chaser NO. 10, by Army aircraft, Philippine
              Islands area,
              07 d. 04'N., 123 d. 37'E.
            United States naval vessel sunk:
             Escort carrier OMMANEY BAY (CVE-79), damaged by suicide
              plane, Luzon area, P. I.,
              11 d. 25'N., 121 d. 19'E;
              sunk by United States forces.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <ljewell@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Jan 1995 03:47:43 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 04-JAN-1945

On 04-JAN-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the British 2nd Army sector, the XXX Corps opens an
offensive west of the Ourthe River, protecting the U.S. 1st Army right. The
6th Airborne Division meets strong resistance south of Rochefort. In the
U.S. 1st Army sector, the 2nd Armoured Division captures Beffe and
Lamormenil. The 3rd Armoured Division captures Baneux, Jevigne and Lansival
and gains a bridgehead at Groumont Creek. The 82nd Airborne Division
advances its line to include Heirlot, Odrimont, St Jacques, Bergeval and
Mont de Fosse. In the 3rd Army sector, the 87th Division is halted by the
Germans near Pironpre. The attack of the 17th Airborne Division triggers
strong reaction in the Pinsamont-Rechrival-Hubermont area. The 6th Armoured
Division is repeatedly attacked in the Mageret-Wardin area east of Bastogne
and withdraws to shorten its line. The 35th Division clears Luterbois but
is unable to take Harlange. In the 7th Army sector, the 44th Division tries
vainly to clear Frauenberg and Gros Rederching. The 45th Division,
continuing its fight to reduce the Bitche salient, drives to the outskirts
of Wingen and takes Saegmuhl.

Philippines - Japanese aircraft attack the ships on their way to the Gulf
of Lingayen, Luzon. The escort carrier Ommaney Bay is seriously damaged by
a kamikaze and has to be sunk. A destroyer and tanker are also badly hit.
The main body of the Luzon Attack Force sorties from Leyte Gulf after
nightfall. The X Corps, 8th Army terminates its offensive operations on
Leyte. Japanese planes continue to be active over Mindoro and destroy an
ammunition ship.

Burma - The British XV Corps completes the occupation of Akyab, a key port
and air base on the Arakan Front. The U.S. 475th Infantry Regiment crosses
the Shweli.

Formosa - TF 36 continue strikes against Japanese aircraft and shipping
but weather conditions again sharply curtail the action. As a result of the
2 day attack, 110 Japanese planes have been destroyed, 12 ships sunk and 28
other vessels damages.

Caroline Islands - Troops of the 81st Division complete a search of Fais
Island and are withdrawn.

The Homefront
-------------
6th War Loan Results - Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morgenthau Jr. has
announced that the Sixth War Loan brought in $21,621,000,000, exceeding the
quote by 54%.

Chaplin Paternity Suit - Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Henry Willis has
declared a mistrial in the paternity suit against actor Charlie Chaplin an
dismissed the jury when it reports itself hopelessly deadlocked. The jury
has been deliberating the case filed by Joan Berry, who claims Chaplin is
the father of her daughter, Carol Ann.

Army & Navy
-----------
U.S. Air Record - Lt. Gen. Carl A. Spaatz, commanding U.S. air units in
Europe, said today that his planes flew 1,045,728 sorties and dropped
958,000 tons of bombs in 1944. American losses for the year were 9,284
planes. U.S. aircraft destroyed 15,318 enemy planes.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Jan 1995 14:13:56 GMT+6
From:    Esaul Zermeno Bautista <EZERMENO@DPED.DPED.UAA.MX>
Subject: <No subject given>

   Can anybody help me to find some information about the u-boat
activities during wwii in gulf of mexico specific in Veracruz port.

   thanks in advance.

   Alfredo Zermeno B.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:50:24 EST
From:    Doug McCabe <mccabe@OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU>
Subject: Untold Stories f/TLD, Pt. 8

                   Ohio University Electronic Communication


   Date:  03-Jan-1995 10:50am EST

     To:  Remote Addressee                     ( _MX%"WWII-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU" )

   From:  Doug McCabe                                Dept:  Library
          MCCABE                                   Tel No:  (614) 593-2715

Subject:  Untold Stories f/TLD, Pt. 8


    [There are, of course, many other untold stories sleeping in the files
    of the Ryan Collection and all these installments represent just a few
    (and not always the best) of the personal accounts of real experiences
    of battle.  I'll try, as time becomes available, to bring out more of
    these facinating stories.]

    REACTION FROM THE OTHER SIDE

         General Reichert thought the normandy invasion was a 'raid' aimed
    at creating a diversion to suck various German units into the vortex
    and that the real spearhed of the attack would follow elsewhere.  He
    ordered his divisions NOT to attack because he knew there were two
    panzer divisions in reserve.  He spent most of D-Day waiting for these
    two divisions to attack because he was convinced that they would throw
    the invaders back into the sea.
         - interview with General Reichert, Commander, German 15th Army

         "On D-Day there was great confusion due to contradictory orders
    and contradictory strategic concepts, and the total lack of
    coordination which prevailed throughout the German command channels."
                        - Lt. Gen. Feuchtinger, German 21st Panzer Div.

         "It was two _Russian_ battalions near Meauvaines that broke and as
    a result the whole German front collapsed."
                                  - Lt. Gen. Richter, German 716th Div.

         At the end of the day Captain Hummerich had grave doubts that the
    war was over, but he decided that he "must keep smiling."
                        - interview with Capt. Hummerich, German 709th Div.

         "On the evening of the 6th, I personally was convinced that the
    war was over."
                   - Admiral Krancke, Commander-in-Chief of the German Navy


    And then dawned a new day, this time signaling the beginning of the end
    on the Western Front.

    Doug



Received:  03-Jan-1995 10:50am

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:51:07 EST
From:    Roger Coon <coon@CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: African POWs in Europe

        While I was looking through the books containing reprints of
the German propaganda magazine, Signal, I noted a number of photos of
French African POWs.  Does anyone on the list know what the fate of
these prisoners was?  Thanks in advance,
Brad Coon

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Jan 1995 12:06:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Revisionism, Again

I picked the following up from the sci.military newsgroup on Usenet.
Any comments?

Jack McKillop


>From the December 19, 1994, Baltimore Sun (reprinted without permission):

 On the editorial page:

 Theo Lippman, Jr.,

 I highly recommend the exhibit at the Smithsonian on the 50th anniversary
 of the Battle of the Bulge.  I have to warn you, though, that like all
 things connected with war, it's not always pretty.
 For example, there is one mural-size photograph of dead German soldiers
 lying in the Belgian snow.  According to the Smithsonian's exhibit
 catalog, this picture depicts the results of "a skirmish in which over
 300 brave young Germans, fighting to defend their homeland and unique
 culture (Nazism, See Page 139) from invading American hordes, were
 slaughtered by blood-thirsty U.S. paratroopers, some of whom were
 descendents of cavalry-men who practiced genocide against peaceful Native
 Americans in the 19th century."
 Another mural shows the famous scene when a German officer brings a
 message to the American commander at Bastogne (site of the "bulge", a
 German counter-offensive), Gen. Anthony McAuliffe.  Beside the mural is
 what is said to be a replica of the now lost message from the German
 commander.  According to the catalog, that message was actually an offer
 to surrender.
 Also on display is the message General McAuliffe sent back:  "Nuts!"
 The catalog says that according to some witnesses to the exchange of
 messages, McAuliffe delivered this spoken reply, too:  "We won't let you
 surrender!  And we won't stop fighting until every last one of you
 stinking foreigners is dead!"
 A footnote says McAuliffe "may have been acting on direct orders from
 General Dwight Eisenhower, who smoked four packs of cigarettes a day."
 Another display is a diorama of a section of the Ardennes Forest.  Many
 destroyed trees.  Abandoned Jeeps and tanks everywhere and some discarded
 C-rations containers.  The catalog notes that "Americans, unlike Germans,
 were notorious litter-bugs who had no respect for the environment."
 All in all, it's an interesting exhibit, and it puts things in a context
 I hadn't thought of before.  Some critics say it is a mis-reading of
 history by historians too young to remember the war, but I say, every
 generation has to interpret events in accordance with its own values.
 I don't criticize the Smithsonian for most of the exhibit, but I think
 maybe they went a little too far with one display:
 Hitler, himself, may have suggested the surrender, the Smithsonian says,
 in an accompanying exhibit of several of his vegetarian menus and his
 membership card in People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.  Also a
 photograph of him helping a little old lady across the street.
 These are displayed next to pictures of President Roosevelt eating a big
 ham sandwich and a platter of fried chicken.  Accompanying them are
 pictures of stockyard workers slaughtering hogs and a cook wringing the
 neck of a hen.  "Like most American workers of the day," the catalog
 states, "especially blacks and women, the ones pictured here were denied
 adequate health insurance."

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Jan 1995 09:13:14 -0800
From:    Ellen Shepard <ESHEPARD@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Aol And Delphi

You wrote:

>
>I am considering America On Line and Delphi for internet access.
>But I do not like giving them my credit card number.  Any advice?
>Any experiences you can tell me, either good or bad?
>
>Reply privately if you prefer.
>         george.bauer@citynet.com
>
> * RoboBOARD/FX 1.04
>
>

I have tried both delphi and AOL.  However, for extensive research you want to
be hooked up to www and the whole internet.  try netcom who uses netcruiser.
it is 19.95 per month, but you get 40 hours per month, plus all free hours during
the weekend.  aol is very easy and friendly if you do not need complete access
to the internet.  i found dephi not as user friendly if you use windows.  hope
this is of assistance.

ellen

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Jan 1995 12:25:11 EST
From:    Mike Fetters <NASEM015@SIVM.SI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

The opening date for the exhibition "The Last Act: The Atomic Bomb and
the End of World War II" has not yet been determined. The Museum still
intends to open the exhibition in May, but specific opening dates are
still under discussion. The Museum hopes to be able to announce an
official opening date by the end of January. The May 1 date is
incorrect. I appreciate the heads up and have called our Visitor
Information office to make sure that more incorrect information is not
given out. Thank you.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Jan 1995 16:32:26 EST
From:    Mike Fetters <NASEM015@SIVM.SI.EDU>
Subject: Revisionism, Again

FROM THE BALTIMORE SUN, LETTERS TO THE EDITOR MONDAY, JANUARY 2, 1995
(reprinted without permission)

"Like many readers, I misinterpreted the column written by Theo Lippman
Jr. I was so concerned about the content of the column, I contacted the
Smithsonian Institution to protest the exhibit.
  That is how I learned that Mr. Lippman's column was meant to be
satirical. The Smithsonian does not currently have an exhibit such as
Mr. Lippman describes, nor does it plan to at any time in the future.
Regrettably, I believe this column has generated a great deal of
confusion and has caused undue alarm to our veterans, who have served so
honorably when their country called." Barbara A. Mikulski, Washington
The writer is a U.S. Senator from Maryland

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Jan 1995 21:26:42 -0500
From:    Thomas Pike <MilArchive@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Untold Stories f/TLD, Pt. 8

I'm a big fan of C. Ryans. Do you work where his records are archives?

Thomas Pike/Washington D.C.
MILARCHIVE

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Jan 1995 23:49:11 EST
From:    "Carl Wernke - TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET" <TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET>
Subject: Re: IJN Radio Silent to Pearl Harbor

 A late response to John De Virgilio's earlier post about the U.S.Navy's
 ability to read the JN-25 : (3) Does anyone know on what date/hour that the
 ADM Yamamoto flight itinerary was intercepted by American Intelligence ?
 Please inform RADM Koyama the following:
 At 1755, 13 April 1943, the Navy monitor at Wahiawa radio station used an
 ingenious typewriter with the "Kana" keyboard in Japanese, which
 simultaneously cut a teletype tape; this tape, in turn, was fed into a
 transmitter and sent automatically to Combat Intelligence, where a talented
 group of code-crackers whose code name was Hypo, who started the
 cryptanalysts and translators in Washington, working simultaneously with
 those in Hawaii, discovered its secrets within five hours. --- Yamamoto had
 forcast a year to eighteen months of Japanese victories after the
 destruction of the U.S.Pacific Fleet. It was one year, four months and
 eleven days after Pearl Harbor when he was killed, and after him there were
 no major Japanese victories; there were only growing disasters, coming
 ever nearer the home islands.


 Source: _Get Yamamoto_, by Burke Davis.


 Carl Wernke
 TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 2 Jan 1995 to 3 Jan 1995
***********************************************

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Subject:  WWII-L Digest - 3 Jan 1995 to 4 Jan 1995
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Status: O

There are 33 messages totalling 1312 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. WEAP: IJN "Long Lance" Torpedo (3)
  2. IJN Radio Silent to Pearl Harbor
  3. JN-25 Info.
  4. Type 93 Gyo
  5. INF: USN Chronology 01-04-95
  6. INF: 50 Years Ago - 05-JAN-1945
  7. 3rd Army Chronology - 4Jan45
  8. ADMIN: Introduction to WWII-L
  9. 3rd Army Chronology - 5Jan45
 10. 3rd Army Chronology - 6Jan45
 11. ? resources (10)
 12. West Palm Beach AFB
 13. Codebreaking and the Neutrals
 14. Gudmundar's Airlifted Pocket in Russia
 15. ADMIN: I'm back but...
 16. EDU: project for schools.
 17. REVISIONISM, AGAIN
 18. "Martyred Villages"
 19. Type 93 Gyo/Fuel of??
 20. V-2 Book Review (2)
 21. Apologies/Help

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 00:29:38 EST
From:    "Carl Wernke - TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET" <TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET>
Subject: WEAP: IJN "Long Lance" Torpedo

 X-To:    EVANS@URVAX.BITNET



 John De Virgilio

 The IJN Type 93 torpedo was used during the First Phase of Battle of the
 Java Sea, 27 February 1942. It could be fired up to 44,000 yards at 36 knots.

 Who named this weapon "Long Lance," and why ?

 Welcome to our list, John.

 Carl Wernke
 TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:37:06 -1000
From:    John DeVirgilio <devirgil@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: IJN Radio Silent to Pearl Harbor

On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, Carl Wernke - TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET wrote:

>  A late response to John De Virgilio's earlier post about the U.S.Navy's
>  ability to read the JN-25 : (3) Does anyone know on what date/hour that the
>  ADM Yamamoto flight itinerary was intercepted by American Intelligence ?
>  Please inform RADM Koyama the following:
>  At 1755, 13 April 1943, the Navy monitor at Wahiawa radio station used an
>  ingenious typewriter with the "Kana" keyboard in Japanese, which
>  simultaneously cut a teletype tape; this tape, in turn, was fed into a
>  transmitter and sent automatically to Combat Intelligence, where a talented
>  group of code-crackers whose code name was Hypo, who started the
>  cryptanalysts and translators in Washington, working simultaneously with
>  those in Hawaii, discovered its secrets within five hours. --- Yamamoto had
>  forcast a year to eighteen months of Japanese victories after the
>  destruction of the U.S.Pacific Fleet. It was one year, four months and
>  eleven days after Pearl Harbor when he was killed, and after him there were
>  no major Japanese victories; there were only growing disasters, coming
>  ever nearer the home islands.
>
>
>  Source: _Get Yamamoto_, by Burke Davis.
>
>
>  Carl Wernke
>  TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET
>

Carl Wernke,

Thank you for  responding to my earlier post - Questions from Koyama-san.
Koyama-san wanted to know the time, date, and who intercepted the Yamamoto's
radio itinerary.  For reasons close to his heart, Koyama did not answer my
inquiry as to why he wanted to know this small bit of historical trivia. The
Japanese interpreter, a close friend of Koyama-san's abruptly  changed the
conversation between us, signaling me that I was to close to an old and
personal wound (personal embarrassment).  I suspect that it was Koyama-san
himself or perhaps one of his navy radio communications team that sent the
JN-25 message(s) which led to  Yamamoto's death.  Later, I was kindly asked
to avoid this question in the future by his friend and interpreter Mr.
Uesaka.


Thanks again for your time.
Aloha,

John F. De Virgilio

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 01:09:52 EST
From:    "Carl Wernke - TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET" <TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET>
Subject: WEAP: IJN "Long Lance" Torpedo

 X-To: EVANS@URVAX.BITNET




 John De Virgilio

 The IJN Type 93 torpedo was used during the First Phase of the Battle of the
 Java Sea, 27 February 1942. It could be fired up to 44,000 yards at 36 knots.

 Who named this weapon "Long Lance", and why ?

 Welcome to our list, John.

 Carl Wernke
 TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Jan 1995 20:14:12 -1000
From:    John DeVirgilio <devirgil@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP: IJN "Long Lance" Torpedo

On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, Carl Wernke - TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET wrote:

>  X-To:    EVANS@URVAX.BITNET
>
>
>
>  John De Virgilio
>
>  The IJN Type 93 torpedo was used during the First Phase of Battle of the
>  Java Sea, 27 February 1942. It could be fired up to 44,000 yards at 36 knots.
>
>  Who named this weapon "Long Lance," and why ?
>
>  Welcome to our list, John.
>
>  Carl Wernke
>  TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET
>

Carl W.,

The type 93 torpedo had a range far greater than allied ship launch torps.
The reason for the high speed and long range was the special torpedo engine
that the Japanese constructed.  This engine mixed enriched air and salt
water.  The salt water engine had a limited life of two runs.  One test
run, after which it needed extensive cleaning and one live war run.

Your questions:

Why - this weapon had unparalleled range and hitting power.

Who named this weapon?   Interestingly, in a conversation with the late
Capt. Roger Pineau, several years ago, he asked me the same question.  I
was stumped and could not give him an answer.  He chuckled and said it
was the late great Samuel Eliot Morison who first called the Japanese type
93 gyorai the "long Lance".  Pineau recalled working one night with Morrison
on a history project just after(?) the war when Morison stated that a
special name is needed for this incredible torpedo.  Whalla! the "LONG
LANCE".


Aloha,

John F. De Virgilio

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Jan 1995 20:22:37 -1000
From:    John DeVirgilio <devirgil@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: JN-25 Info.

Carl Wernke,

Thank you for responding to my earlier post - Questions from Koyama-san.
Koyama-san wanted to know the time, date, and who intercepted the Yamamoto's
radio itinerary.  For reasons close to his heart, Koyama did not answer my
inquiry as to why he wanted to know this small bit of historical trivia. The
Japanese interpreter, a close friend of Koyama-san's abruptly  changed the
conversation between us, signaling me that I was to close to an old and
personal wound (personal embarrassment).  I suspect that it was Koyama-san
himself or perhaps one of his navy radio communications team that sent the
JN-25 message(s) which led to  Yamamoto's death.  Later, I was kindly asked
to avoid this question in the future by his friend and interpreter Mr.
Uesaka.


Thanks again for your time.
Aloha,

John F. De Virgilio

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Jan 1995 20:27:20 -1000
From:    John DeVirgilio <devirgil@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Type 93 Gyo

Carl W.,

The type 93 torpedo had a range far greater than allied ship launch torps.
The reason for the high speed and long range was the special torpedo engine
that the Japanese constructed.  This engine mixed enriched air and salt
water.  The salt water engine had a limited life of two runs.  One test
run, after which it needed extensive cleaning and one live war run.

Your questions:

Why - this weapon had unparalleled range and hitting power.

Who named this weapon?   Interestingly, in a conversation with the late
Capt. Roger Pineau, several years ago, he asked me the same question.  I
was stumped and could not give him an answer.  He chuckled and said it
was the late great Samuel Eliot Morison who first called the Japanese type
93 gyorai the "long Lance".  Pineau recalled working one night with Morrison
on a history project just after(?) the war when Morison stated that a
special name is needed for this incredible torpedo.  Whalla! the "LONG
LANCE".


Aloha,

John F. De Virgilio

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 04:00:19 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 01-04-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
01/04 Thu.  United States naval vessels damaged:
             Destroyer BALL (DD-587), by collision,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              11 d. 25'N., 121 d. 19'E.
             Oiler PECOS (AO-65), by horizontal bomber, Luzon area,
              P. I.,
              12 d. 19'N., 121 d. 04'E.
            Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             Submarine chaser NO. 210, by aircraft, Formosa Strait.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <ljewell@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 05:13:50 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 05-JAN-1945

On 05-JAN-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the 1st Army sector, the 2nd Armoured Division's main
effort against Consy makes little headway. The 3rd Armoured Division is
slowed by rear-guard action in Bois de Groumont but seizes Lavaux and
enters Lierneux. The 82nd Airborne Division makes progress all along the
line and repels counterattacks near Bergeval. In the 3rd Army sector, the
87th Division meets German resistance near Bonnerue and Pironpre, west of
Bastogne. In the 7th Army sector, the XV Corps clears Frauenberg and Gros
Rederching. The VI Corps makes slow progress against the Bitche salient in
the 45th Division area. Most of Wingen and Philippsbourg are cleared. On
the corps' right flank, the Germans establish a bridgehead across the Rhine
in the Gambsheim area, crossing between Kilstett and Drusenheim and
overrunning Offendorf, Herrlisheim and Rohrweiler.

Philippines - Kamikaze attacks on the Luzon invasion convoy continue,
causing damage to a number of vessels including the escort carriers Manila
Bay and Savo Island and the heavy cruisers Louisville and Australia. On
Mindoro, Palauan falls to a composite force of guerrillas and 503rd Para
Infantry troops.

Volcano-Bonin Islands - Iwo Jima undergoes a coordinated air-surface
bombardment by land-based aircraft from the 7th Air Force and a
cruiser-destroyer task group. Surface vessels also bombard Chichi and Haha.

Burma - Troops of the Chinese 30th Division begin crossing the Shweli.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:28:43 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: 3rd Army Chronology - 4Jan45

January 4, 1945
D-Day +212

-G-2 interprets German activity as becoming wholly defensive.

-Letter of Instruction #12 from Twelfth Army group states that the 3rd Army
 would continue it's attack toward Houffalize and bring into effect a
 junction with the 1st Army in that area.

-Patton orders a cease-fire on crossroads located near German Army hospital
 after special request is recieved in 3rd Army HQ from Germans in the
 VIII Corps area. Patton sends officers to observe use of crossroads to
 ensure they are only used for wounded.

-XIX TAC grounded due to poor weather.

-3rd Army supplies released to be used in repairing 16th century University
 of Pont-a-Mousson. French reports indicate that the University was wontonly
 shelled by the Germans in September.

*** Source - _Patton's 3rd Army Chronology_ by Charles Province.
*** Typos are mine.

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:42:03 -0500
From:    Barone <m1b@SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: ADMIN: Introduction to WWII-L

Revision: 2 December 1994
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[The major change is a disclaimer on copyright at the bottom.  - Joe]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Welcome to WWII-L, a list dedicated to the discussion of the greatest
cataclysm of the Twentieth century (and, hopefully, the last.)  My name is
Joe Barone and I am the listowner.  I can be reached at m1b@ssd.ray.com.

        WWII-L will be self-moderated.  This means that each of you will
always try to remember that there is a human being on the other end of the
wire, and the "Golden Rule" is rule number one!

        Our subject is HUGE and not everyone will be interested in everything
that moves over the list.  To ease YOUR burden of sorting the items you wish
to read, I offer the following "flags".  They will go FIRST on the Subject:
line.  (This section will be enforced when traffic gets heavy, otherwise
members may use their discretion on the matter.)

ADMIN For listowner use, to post introduction and related material.
      Responses to these articles are welcome, but only listowner
      should originate an "ADMIN" article.
ARC   For discussion of on-line resources and materials, such as those avail-
      able via ftp or gopher.  Discussion of the WWII-OLA (On-Line Archives
      should be posted under this flag.)
DOC   Reproductions of documents, Declarations of War, Speeches, Treaties, etc.
EDU   For discussion of aspects of teaching about the war.
GEN   "Let's find a category for this."
HOME  For discussions of events on the "Homefront".  To help distinguish
      WHICH homefront we're talking about, use the following format:
      HOME:US for the U.S.A.,
      HOME:GER for Germany, and so forth.
INF   Tables of Organization, raw data, chronologies, etc.
MEDIA To review and report TV and other media "events".
NEWS  For reproductions of newspaper, magazine, and other articles from the
      period under discussion.  Present day news items should be post under
      "MEDIA".
NOST  For nostalgia items, such as trips to battle sites, historical
      recreations, museum information, where to buy badges and hats, etc.
POL   Political discussions, such as the effects of the Yalta Conference.
REF   References, review, where-to-buy, etc.
SCI   For discussion of science and technology; may overlap with WEAP.
TAC   Tactical and Strategic discussions, "Island hopping vs. Single axis"
TROUBLE  Error messages from a site or address. Last chance to contact me
      before I'm forced to delete you! Anyone who knows the member in question
      is urged to contact them and have the problem corrected.
TRV   For you trivia buffs. Try to stump everyone.
VET   For reunions, VA announcements, Legislation affecting veterans.
WANT  For trading, suggestion on stores worth visting, etc.  Please offer to
WEAP  For talk of weapons, usage of weapons, and "My favorite weapon."
      send more information via e-mail rather than posting an entire inventory.
WHAT-IF  For discussing scenarios of what may have happened if things had
      been just a wee bit different.  Situations must have their roots in
      history and reality rather than flights of fancy.

        Some items will overlap, of course, but the main thrust of the item
should be clear.  Try not to ask so many questions in a single post that the
flags become inoperative.  Several short posts are preferable to one long one,
and are easier to answer and quote.  You should change the flag in the subject
line if the thread takes a new direction.  If you reply to a posting which
didn't have a flag, please insert the proper flag.  (This can help categorize
the subject for people who have to download the mail via slow modem, one of
the main reasons for having the flags at all.)

        Threads have been known to mutate so that the Subject: line no longer
gives any indication of the content of the message.  I ask that you check
the Subject: line when replying to a message and change it to something
more appropriate if this is the case.

        Since messages may arrive at sites out of order, it's always a good
idea to quote portions of a previous message that you are responding to.
This does not mean that the entire message with headers should be included,
but those lines that are relevant.  It helps if proper attribution (who
said the quoted material) is given.  Also, try to avoid quoting large
tracts of text and simply adding an "I agree!" line with no additional
information.  A good rule of thumb is not to have more quoted text than
new material.  Of course, content is always more important than style so
these suggestions may not apply.

        Abbreviations are another subject that needs attention.  While many
of us will be comfortable with the most arcane and obscure acronyms and
abbreviations, many of the readers of this list are here to learn more about
the war and will have trouble decyphering your articles if they are packed
with "LAH", "CinCUS", "StuG III", etc.  PLEASE expand these terms at least
once in your post.

        Similarly, since this list is primarily in English, could we please
translate the "foreign" terms?  A long discussion on "Kido Butai" or
"Wacht-am-Rhine" without an explantion of the terms isn't polite if we
exclude part of the list because they have no clue as to the meaning of
the terms.  The converse should also be remembered: English is not the
primary language of many members of the list.  Usenet short-hand should
also be expanded once to avoid redundant traffic explaining what such
abbreviations as BTW mean ("by the way").


        Now we come to the REALLY hard part.

        Some subjects have been beaten to death or evoke strong emotional
responses.  However, I realize that they'll come up from time to time.
If you feel that the following topics must be addressed, ensure that your
wording is precise; consider the responses that it might evoke; and use
the topics flag.  It is not my duty to censor any pertinent topic from this
list, but these topics should be handled carefully.  Failure to do so may
result in "flame wars" which will *not* be tolerated on this list.  The
mailing list suffered through one flame war pertaining to the second topic
below.  It nearly killed the list so I am loath to see if the list can
tolerate another.  Also, in regards to the Holocaust, there is another
mailing-list, HOLOCAUS-L, devoted to the topic so readers should subscribe
to that list for a more thorough discussion of that topic.  The current
list of topics are:

        1. The Holocaust.
        2. Internment of Japanese-Americans in the US.

        Also, while conspiracy theories were all the rage during in the 1970s
and 1980s, they're rather passe now.  Their novelty is gone and there is little
or no evidence to support them.  Occam's razor applies here: don't attribute
to malice the results of ignorance.  Accordingly, the following topics are
discouraged:

        1. Did Roosevelt know about the coming attack on Pearl Harbor and
           intentionally do nothing in order to drag the US into the war?
        2. Did Churchill allow the bombing of Conventry to occur in order
           to protect the secret of Ultra?

        While on the topic of touchy topics and flame wars, there are a
few individuals in the world who delight in posting the most assinine
assertions for the sole purpose of enraging the more serious members of a
group.  These people seem to derive pleasure seeing how much traffic they
can generate.  A subset of this group may actually believe the preposterous
things that they are claiming.  Regardless of such an individual's
motivation, though, if a message angers you, I ask that you not respond
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to prevent such flame wars, but propogation delays make it impossible for
me to react instantaneously.  Hopefully, I'll have the wisdom to discern
"flamebait" from an actual desire to debate an unpopular theory.


        One last item, STATE YOUR REFERENCES!  You're in tough company here.
| Members include historians, published authors, and at least three veterans
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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        One of the features of the listserver is the database search.  This
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        One member of the list used the old example that accompanied this
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//      JOB Echo=No
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search WEAP: in WWII-L
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Several members of the list provide daily updates of events that
occurred 50 years ago.  Much of this information is archived.  Below are
the addresses for retrieving archives of this information and much more.

| WWII-L ARCHIVES:
|   1. ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu in directory WWII_L
|
COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES is archived at two sites:

  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory /pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in
        /pub/history/military/airforce/ wwii_chronology

50 YEARS AGO TODAY is archived at:

  1. ftp.netcom.com, in directory /pub/jbd/www

50 YEARS AGO OF NAVAL ACTIVITIES and other historical goodies:

  1. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu in directory /pub/history and all subdirectories

        To access these archives using ftp, connect to the desired system,
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directories.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|       Copyright issues are a major problem on the Internet.  As far as
| I'm concerned, messages sent to this list are the intellectual property
| of the person who sent the message.  Members should not freely relinguish
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| then I will assume that the material is still owned of the poster and that
| the list is the custodian of the information.  My policy will be to allow
| material to be reproduced only if it is done free of charge and is not
| altered in any form unless, of course, the owner has other requirements
| that would supercede this policy.
|
|       This is my first draft so I would appreciate any feedback from
| members.  My intent is to prevent people from acquiring personal gain,
| whether it is finanical or otherwise, from information that appears on
| this list without getting the consent from the authors of that information.
| If anyone can word this intent better than I did above, I would like to
| hear from you.  Thanks.
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I haven't suffciently confused you, send me e-mail and I'll finish
the job. :-)  I can be reached at the following address:

Joe Barone, WWII-L Listowner
m1b@ssd.ray.com
W: (401) 842-4054
Always wit' da negative waves, Moriarty!  Always wit' da negative waves!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:41:32 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: 3rd Army Chronology - 5Jan45

January 5, 1945
D-Day +213

-Germans continue to use infiltration tactics against II Corps front.

-In the VIII Corps area, the 101st Airborne Div continues the defense of
 bastogne with the 17th Airborne being strongly counterattacked.

-Little change in the XX Corps area.

-XIX TAC flew 191 sorties, directed primarily at marshalling yards and
 enemy airfields.

***********

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:47:03 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: 3rd Army Chronology - 6Jan45

January 6, 1945
D-Day +214

-XIX TAC was socked in. Only 4 enemy planes were spotted over the entire
 3rd Army area.

-87th Inf Div clears Tellet, 8 miles West of bastogne. The 28th Inf Div
 patrols the sector along the river Meuse.

-G-2 identifies that the enemy will most likely pull out and assume a
 defensive posture on the high ground to the North and East of Houffalize.

-Twelfth Army Group indicated that 3rd Army would recieve about 35% of cold
 weather clothing available in the ETO.

-Chairman of the War Manpower Commission, Paul McNutt visits 3rd Army HQ
 and is escorted to supply stations to observe shortages in the area of
 Nancy. Vice Chair for Labor Production, Maury Maverick accompanies.

*************

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:08:22 -0600
From:    "Margaret J. McCormick" <mmccormi@SERVICES.DESE.STATE.MO.US>
Subject: ? resources

I have been lurking for several months on this list - and now, even I am
fascinated by this War and I am impressed by the expertise expressed here
- all the while I am trying to figure out - just who you all are...

As a high school librarian I am trying to link students with resources,
so that they might have some lively sense of WWII.  I find much of what
you write very moving - and memories of my childhood are invoked as I
recall headlines that screamed to all of us, even as children.

My students were not even born during the Vietnam War...

With consideration of limitations of budget - if you could recommend
several "best sources" of information about WWII for students "lest they
forget" - what would you want to see students read?
        - what are the most critical concepts you would wish them to
understand?
        - would you be willing to communicate with them to answer any
questions that they might have?  - and, if so, in what area is your
expertise or special interest?



margaret                                mmccormi@services.dese.state.mo.us

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:43:38 CST
From:    Michael P LaForge <mlaforge@SAVANNA-EMH1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: West Palm Beach AFB

Request any information anyone has on the West Palm Beach
AFB during the second world War. This would include aircaft and units assigned
as well as affiliated training areas and bomb targets. please reply directly
to me unless you think it would be of interest to the net. Thanks

******************************************************************************
* Mike LaForge                                                               *
* U.S. Army Technical Center for Explosives Safety (USATCES)                 *
* Explosives Safety Logistics Division (ESL)                                 *
* Defense Environmental Restoration Program - Formerly Used Defense Sites    *
* (DERP-FUDS)                                                                *
* DSN: 585-8762  FAX: 585-6009  COMM: 815-273-8762                           *
******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 09:20:35 -0800
From:    David Alvarez <dalvarez@STMARYS-CA.EDU>
Subject: Codebreaking and the Neutrals

Research into wartime cryptology has focused on the successes and
failures of Britain, Germany, Japan, and the U.S..  There seems to be
little attention to the impact of the code war on the neutral powers.
Does anyone know anything about code-making and code-breaking as it
impacted Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and Turkey?

I have run across a reference in the British archives to the use of
"one-time pads" by the British legation to the Vatican in the fall of
1943.  When did the British Foreign Office begin using one-time pads?

David Alvarez

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:59:29 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <gregk@STPAUL.LIB.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Gudmundar's Airlifted Pocket in Russia

For: Gudmundar Helgason

Regarding your proposed airlifted operation, I'd like some additional
information before I start throwing out too many suggestions.  So far all
I'm sure of is you wish to land a force of several thousand SS troops
somewhere behind Soviet lines & supply them by air.  This combat group is
to be equipped with the best possible weapons available (including 2cm
Flak & hopefully 8.8cm Pak) for the time depicted, which I believe you
said to be spring of 1943.

Hokay---

(1)  Is this force to be brought in by air, or are we talking about a
ground unit stranded behind the lines during some front collapse?

(2) Just how far behind the lines are you envisioning?  It'll make a lot
of difference what types of transport aircraft (and their loads) are to
be used depending on whether we're talking a few dozen or a few hundred
miles of flight distance from base to field.

(3) Why are they there?  Is this a special commando-type raid with a
specific purpose (and therefore specialised weapons, etc) or are we
talking more along the lines of dropping a combat group to see how much
havoc they can wreak?

If you can fill me in with some of these details I can do some more
accurate projections.  My shoot-from-the-hip response is to use a flight
of Me 321 Gigant GLIDERS (with Bf 110 or He 111 Zwilling tows) for the
initial landing and then maintain support flights with Ar 232s & Ju 52s,
but I'll wait until you can fill me in before going further.

As for 8.8cm Pak 43s & North Africa, if memory serves, none were sent
because none existed at the time.  The Afrika Korps would've started
off with the standard issue antitank weapons of its time, i.e. 3.7cm
"doorknockers", some 2.8cm taperbores, and a few 5cm Pak 38s.  As the
need for more powerful AT guns arose, heavier guns were supplied--
7.5cm & some 7.62cm (ex-Russian) -- and available 8.8cm Flaks were
also locally appropriated for AT use.  Doubtless if they'd have held
on long enough in Tunisia, 8.8cm Pak 43s might have been shipped to
them, but I don't think any reached them historically.

Awaiting your reply,

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          gregk@stpaul.lib.mn.us

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:19:13 -0500
From:    Barone <m1b@SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: ADMIN: I'm back but...

        I am back in the saddle again, but I haven't caught up on all
of my reading.  I apologize for the NORTH.POLE fiasco but I had removed
Santa et al from the list before I left.  Apparently, old messages were
bouncing around the Internet ether.  I thank Alan for filling in during
my absence.  There are a few requests for assistance and I will get to
them as soon as I can.  If a response isn't received by Friday, please
feel free to resend it since it may have fallen on the floor the first
time.

        I can't wait to get all caught up and get some free time so I
can share tidbits from the book, _The Italian Navy in World War II_,
which I am currently reading.  Many of the mainstream ideas concerning
the Italians are rebutted with an excruciating amount of data from
primary sources.
--
Joe Barone, WWII-L listowner
m1b@ssd.ray.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 15:26:07 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: Re: ? resources

>With consideration of limitations of budget - if you could recommend
>several "best sources" of information about WWII for students "lest they
>forget" - what would you want to see students read?
>        - what are the most critical concepts you would wish them to
>understand?

Hi Margaret,

This may turn your original question on a slight tangent, but I think it may be
important to your ultimate goal as well.

When I was in the eighth grade, I was wandering around my high school library
(in SMALL school systems, eighth grade IS in the high school!) and I happened
upon a book called "Up Periscope!" which if I correctly recall (no guarantees)
may have been written by Martin Caiden?  I almost hate to say that, since I
don't know for sure.  The eighth grade was a long time ago.

Anyway, to my point:  This is a story about a submarine that takes a Navy Lt.
(jg) on a secret mission to a Japanese held island in the Pacific to sneak
ashore and steal a code book.  It was later made into a movie by the same name.
It was exciting, thrilling, full of suspense, and went a long way towards
satisfying my natural curiosity about how complex things work (in this case a
submarine).  To the best of my knowledge, it is entirely a work of fiction.

This book started my fascination with submarines and WWII in general.  Because
of it, I searched out better, bigger and more fact oriented material to read and
study.  I suppose the point I'd like to make is that I was FIRST entertained by
the subject, even though it was a work of fiction, and from that a genuine
interest developed.

I know there will be many references made to you of lots of great material.  The
most important thing is to catch their interest, and hopefully their own thirst
for information will follow.

Good Luck!

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:47:08 EST
From:    Mary Hricko <MHRICKO@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Subject: Re: ? resources

Dear Margaret,
        I thought I would respond to your post because being a former
 high school teacher, I became upset to learn that my students were
 clueless when it came to World War II. I had my one English class
 read Reid's Escape from Colditz (I may be spelling the title wrong)
 and then watch the movie The Great Escape (The one with Steve McQueen).
 The kids were reluctant to believe that men actually dug the tunnels
 to escape. We also read Auschwitz and Studs Terkel's series on WWII.

        Hope this helps.

                        Regards, Mary

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:10:26 +0000
From:    Tom Holloway <xuegx@CSV.WARWICK.AC.UK>
Subject: EDU: project for schools.

Many of you will have heard of the School Project called
MEMORIES OF 1944/45 which has been running since last
January.  It consists of a panel of Elders (listed below),
most of them available online (and the others are
interviewed as and when required).  We respond to questions
put to us by school-children about our lives during those
violent years.  The project looks at WW2 from the civilian
perspective, and we ask that stories about combat and the
'technology of war' aren't submitted.

We are now reaching the last six months of World War Two,
and we invite you to join our list and share some of the
exchanges with us.  You may from time to time want to put in
some words of your own and they will be very welcome - but
not too long, and PLEASE remember that our aim is to put the
CIVILIAN view, rather than the view of combattants.

If you would like the FAQ document please write to me, OR it
will be sent when you subscribe to listserv@sjuvm.stjohns.edu
(sub memories <firstname lastname>).  Previous exchanges are
all available by anonymous ftp from ftp.warwick.ac.uk in the
directory /pub/chatback (filenames begin with '1944')

+----------------------------------+
! Tom Holloway ---- +44 926 888333 !
! The Chatback Educational Trust   !
! Home:-926-420204 Fax:-926-435534 !
! Email: t.holloway@warwick.ac.uk  !
+----------------------------------+

=========================================================

 THE LAND GIRL    - from University to hard labour as a Land
                    Girl on a farm

 THE BERLIN SCHOOLBOY  - who survived the 1,000-bomber raids

 THE LONDON SCHOOLBOY - living through the blitz and the doodle-bugs

 THE VIENNA SCHOOLGIRL - coping with discrimination under the
                         Nazi regime

 THE POLISH EXILE - shipped in a cattletruck as a slave labourer

 THE SURVIVOR - living through the hell of 4 years of Auschwitz

 THE NURSE - caring for soldiers from USA, England and Germany

 THE AMERICAN SOLDIER - in England, waiting to go to war

 THE CROATIAN SOLDIER - forced to fight for the Nazis, who
                    survived the 'Croation Death March'

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 18:29:17 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <ben.frank@HIS.COM>
Subject: REVISIONISM, AGAIN

Thanks, Mike, for clearing the air on this before all the members of the list
got up in arms. There was enough sturm und drang over the Enola Gay exhibit,
which I know is now in much better shape script/photowise. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 17:51:46 +0001
From:    Ira H Krakow <ikrakow@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: "Martyred Villages"

   Is there a list of villages that were destroyed by the Nazis in
response to partisan attacks?  I just came back from Greece and
visited Kalavrita (on the road from Athens to Patras).  The Nazis
executed about 1500 males in one day in reprisal for partisan attacks.
The guidebook I used mentioned an "Association of Martyred Villages".

   I know of two other "martyred villages".  One is Oradour-sur-Glane,
near Limoges, France.  On June 10, 1944, the Nazis burned the town.
I visited the site - the effect is chilling because the village was
preserved (without the bodies) exactly as it was after the burning.
There is a cemetery for the martyrs next to the village.  The beginning
of the Olivier World At War series starts with a haunting description
of the massacre.   The other, or course, is Lidice, in the Czech Republic.
This village was razed in retaliation for the murder of Reynhard Heydrich.

   Are there any others?

Ira Krakow
ikrakow@world.std.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:44:49 -0500
From:    Thoams Wildenberg <wildman@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Type 93 Gyo/Fuel of??

I thought the long this torpedo used oxygen?  Did you mean enriched with O2?
Was the air/salt water used to generate steam?  I'd like to see a
technical description if one has ever been written in Englisht

Tom Wildenberg

On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, John DeVirgilio wrote:

> Carl W.,
>
> The type 93 torpedo had a range far greater than allied ship launch torps.
> The reason for the high speed and long range was the special torpedo engine
> that the Japanese constructed.  This engine mixed enriched air and salt
> water.  The salt water engine had a limited life of two runs.  One test
> run, after which it needed extensive cleaning and one live war run.
>
> Your questions:
>
> Why - this weapon had unparalleled range and hitting power.
>
> Who named this weapon?   Interestingly, in a conversation with the late
> Capt. Roger Pineau, several years ago, he asked me the same question.  I
> was stumped and could not give him an answer.  He chuckled and said it
> was the late great Samuel Eliot Morison who first called the Japanese type
> 93 gyorai the "long Lance".  Pineau recalled working one night with Morrison
> on a history project just after(?) the war when Morison stated that a
> special name is needed for this incredible torpedo.  Whalla! the "LONG
> LANCE".
>
>
> Aloha,
>
> John F. De Virgilio
>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:52:38 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <hhs@EVEREST.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: ? resources

Dear Margaret,

I am always surprised- though perhaps I shouldn't be- by the depth of
response of girls 10-15 to THE DIARY OF ANNE FRANK, but you probably
have this listed already. Walter Lord's books, especially on Pearl
Harbor and the Battle of Midway, combine excellent writing with
accuracy. William L. Shirer's 3 volume memoir and his BERLIN DIARY,
especially the latter, give a real sense of the Nazis. Both Lord and
Shirer are written in a style that should interest teenagers who can
be reached, but in no way play down to them- the books are for adults.
Let me also put in a plug for anything by George Orwell, although
his most pertinent work is on the 1930s. DOWN AND OUT IN PARIS AND LONDON
and THE ROAD TO WIGAN PIER will help to explain the social alienation
that turned people from democratic solutions, and HOMAGE TO CATALONIA
may be the greatest war memoir of the century, in addition to being
a solid introduction to the incredibly complex politics of the Spanish          Civil War. DOWN AND OUT and WIGAN PIER may have special relevance in
our own uncertain economic times. Anything by Orwell is easy to read
and if they pick up some of his style and clarity of thought, so much           the better. All of these books are in paperback or should be available
second hand at under $15, and perhaps much less.

Videos may reach these kids better than books. The 26 episodes of
VICTORY AT SEA are somewhat dated factually, and have a bias, but
no documentary has ever been more stirringly written. On the other
hand, I have to admit that some teens will find it hokey. Among
films that could be rented are EUROPA, EUROPA- a reportedly true
story of a Jewish teenager who through chance winds up fighting
for the Nazis to save himself. I've always given high marks to the
movie CABARET, but this has subthemes an educator may want to avoid.
The recent SWING KIDS, about youthful Jazz fans in Nazi Germany,
was a joke to me, but may be something more to your students.

In all, I agree with Theron Miller about reaching them first.
They will learn the issues if they are interested, and you can't
force feed them content that will stick if they are not. If it is
of value, I would suggest that you first find out their individual
interests, then key these back to the war through this list and
other on-line sources.

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 17:11:39 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: ? resources

Margaret McCormick...
        One "single best" reference work I can recommend is:

                SECOND WORLD WAR

                by Martin Gilbert

                Wiedenfield & Nicholson, London, 1989
                Stoddart Publishers, Toronto, 1989.

Best Regards -- Sidney Allinson.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 17:21:00 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: ? resources

Though the movie THE GREAT ESCAPE is very entertaining, it is seriously
inaccurate and distorted because of the producers' comic-book interpretation
of the events in order to make it more "entertaining".

However, the book on which the movie is very loosly based is very accurate.

A less melodramatic but far more acccurate movie depicting tunnel escaping
is THE WOODEN HORSE.

Regards -- Sidney Allinson.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:41:56 -0500
From:    Thoams Wildenberg <wildman@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject: V-2 Book Review

For those who don't get the NY Times, the following book was
written by Richard J. Evan in the Book Review Section of January 1,
1995.
Sounds good to me so I thought I would pass it along to those interested:

"In The Rocket and the Reich, an absorbing new book, Micahel J. Neufeld,
who is curator of World War II history at the National Air And Space
Museum of the Smithsonian Instiutioin in Washington, uses thorough
research into archives of the German rocketry establishment at
Peenemunde, together with a wide range of other sources, to provide a
full account of the V-2 and other programs pursued there.  In the course
of doing so, he effectively demolishes the accounts given in what he
rightly calls the 'dishonest' and 'self-serving' memoirs of many of those
involved, from rocket scientist Wernher von Braun to Hitler's wartime
Armaments Minister, Albert Speer.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:37:06 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Re: ? resources

To Margaret and All,... The _World at War_ has some remarkable footage
and some interesting (I'm being benign) slants imposed by Sir Olivier. Would
this Still be considered fit for a historic perspective given the bias.
(especially for secondary education ???)

-Al

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:03:20 -0500
From:    Carlos R Rivera <crivera@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject: Apologies/Help

First I want to apologize for this procedure, but might someone refresh my
fading memory.  I would like to temporarily halt receiving messages for a
number of days.  Due to a main frame challenge, my saved messages are in a mess
and I cannot "decipher" the appropriate method to stop and restart the service.
My many thanks
Carlos Rivera
crivera@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:39:53 EST
From:    William Lippert <WL1958A@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: V-2 Book Review

On Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:41:56 -0500 Thoams Wildenberg said:
>For those who don't get the NY Times, the following book was
>written by Richard J. Evan in the Book Review Section of January 1,
>1995.
>Sounds good to me so I thought I would pass it along to those interested:
>
>"In The Rocket and the Reich, an absorbing new book, Micahel J. Neufeld,
>who is curator of World War II history at the National Air And Space
>Museum of the Smithsonian Instiutioin in Washington, uses thorough
>research into archives of the German rocketry establishment at
>Peenemunde, together with a wide range of other sources, to provide a
>full account of the V-2 and other programs pursued there.  In the course
>of doing so, he effectively demolishes the accounts given in what he
>rightly calls the 'dishonest' and 'self-serving' memoirs of many of those
>involved, from rocket scientist Wernher von Braun to Hitler's wartime
>Armaments Minister, Albert Speer.

I'm not sure I'll be able to get the book, so can you do me a favor and
tell me what was said about Speer?  I am particularly interested because
I have just finished reading his "Inside the Third Reich".  Anyone have
any comments about that?  TIA

William Lippert
The American University

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:41:47 EST
From:    William Lippert <WL1958A@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: ? resources

Some of the responses have said that "Victory at Sea" and many other video
sources of WWII are slighted and/or innaccurate.  I do not think that this
is particularly important given the age of the students and the fact that
many of these students might take an interest to WWII but probably won't
study it with a passion.  As someone said (sorry, I forgot who), getting
the students' interest is most important.  If this requires a fib here
and there, those who pursue the subject will find the less biased
 interpretations.  I do not think that the disillusionment of their
studies will discourage their interest; on the contrary it should give
them pride that they discovered the "truth" where others had lied.  This,
at least, is how I feel when I find that historians and the media were
wrong about something.
    When I studied WWII in high school, and it wasn't till my senior year,
we focused on Europe (that was the name of the course) and more the causes
of the war than the actual pursuit of it.  This is the best way to approach
the study of WWII, I think; to focus on the pre-war events rather than
the battles.  In this, I'd recommend William L. Shirer's Rise and Fall of
the Third Reich.  Most of the chapters are very well written.  If you go
into Holocaust studies (which is probably a necessity), show them the
German movie (with English subtitles) "Wansee Conference".  This gives
a very good idea of how the Germans were able to institute the Final
Solution.  It is also more or less true.
    How old are these students?  Age can make a great difference.  Also,
the academic level can make a difference too.  Good luck - I'm glad
someone plans to teach WWII before college.

William Lippert
The American University

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:44:30 EST
From:    "Western Michigan: Befuddled State." <BWERNER@IST01.FERRIS.EDU>
Subject: ? resources

Margaret, et al...

About 10-15 years ago I happened to be in our college library, near
the circulation desk when a student came in with an assignment heavy
on her head.  She asked the desk clerk to recommend a book on World
War II, since she had to write a paper on "it."

I didn't stick around for the response, but my first inclination
would have been to drag her (gently, not by the ear) to the rack of
encyclopedias for a (very) broad overview of the war in general, then
would have advised her to pick a topic from that reading.  She could
have started with a general area (battles, politics, homefront, etc)
and then narrowed it down specifically.

Might I suggest this for your student?  I realize that WW-II is
probably one segment of a year (or two term) history course, so a
really detailed analysis might not work out for your class.

There are a number of excellent videos available, and I second the
notion of the value of Victory At Sea and World At War.  With each
being in bite-sized pieces, you can pick and choose and stimulate
interest that way.  You might also try the feature length Victory At
Sea movie, a compressed (90 min) version of the 13 hour full series.
Of course, this series/movie gives the POV of Naval/Naval Aviaton
power in the waging of the War, but worth it anyway.  (I still find
Richard Roger's music stirring, and very well done!)

ALSO!  Check with people on the broadcast side for programs they
might have for loan to schools:  The Discovery Channel, The History
Channel (new this month??) and PBS services.  (and college libraries)

One other point of view you might consider:  Kids today are into
music in a big way, so you might think about doing up a presentation
of tunes from that era that talked about the war.

Good luck!

(For point of reference:  My Dad was in the Eighth Air Force, my step
dad was in the Philippines, and my son is in school now studying to
be a history teacher.)

Bruce.

B. L. Werner
Big Rapids, Michigan
Where nothing is big or rapid.
BWerner@IST01.Ferris.Edu

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 Jan 1995 23:14:03 -0500
From:    Thomas Pike <MilArchive@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ? resources

One book I would strongly suggest for student's to read is Shirer's THE RISE
AND THE FALL OF THE THIRD REICH. The reading is very heavy, to be sure, but
gives a very good introduction into the horrors of World War II.

There are few good books re: the Wsetern Front which I am sure others can
suggest. All the best!
MILARCHIVE

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 3 Jan 1995 to 4 Jan 1995
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 42 messages totalling 1389 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. ADMIN: I'M BACK BUT...
  2. "Martyred Villages" (7)
  3. INF: USN Chronology 01-05-95
  4. Type 93 Gyo/Fuel of? (2)
  5. Long Lance Fuel
  6. Sorry about the type 93 repeat
  7. INF: 50 Years Ago - 06-JAN-1945
  8. Long Lance
  9. ? resources (6)
 10. [INF] USAAF 5 JAN 45
 11. Lou Coatney's paper ships
 12. air attacks- Auschwitz
 13. INF- 2 quick questions
 14. MEDIA:Submarine Commander Dies
 15. MEDIA:German Base Renamed
 16. MEDIA:Auschwitz Survivors
 17. Fwd: Returned mail:  Host unknown (Name server: ubm.cc.buffalo.edu: host
     not found)
 18. V-2 Book Review (2)
 19. Codebreaking and the Neut...
 20. MEDIA: Eugene P. Wigner Obituary
 21. WEAP:Japanese Planes? (4)
 22. Codebreaking and the Neutrals (2)
 23. WEAP: Japanese Planes
 24. WWW page announcement
 25. [INF] USAAF 6 JAN 45

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 00:36:58 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <ben.frank@HIS.COM>
Subject: ADMIN: I'M BACK BUT...

Happy New Year, Joe, and welcome back. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 19:55:18 +1100
From:    George PISZCZUK <PHGPI@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: "Martyred Villages"

One that comes to mind is the village of Khatyn, Belorussia (Belarus)

The occupants of 26 houses were forced into a church and that church was set on
fire.

Today, across the country side, in place of the homes, stand bell towers that
symbolize the chimneys. The bells toll every minute or so.

Along with the mass grave, the wall of rememberance, the symbol of tree of
life and the memorial roof stands the famous sculpture of the Unconquered Man.

To walk around that place well....... it is if their spirits are still there.

George.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 04:00:14 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 01-05-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
01/05 Fri. Cruiser and destroyer task group (Rear Adm. A. E. Smith)
           bombards, and Army aircraft bomb enemy shipping and
           installations on Chichi Jima and Haha Jima, Bonin Islands.
           Cruiser and destroyer task force (Rear Adm. J. L. McCrea)
           bombards Japanese installations at Suribachi Wan,
           Paramushiro, in the Kurile Islands.
            United States naval vessels damaged:
             Escort carrier MANILA BAY (CVE-61), by suicide plane,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              14 d. 50'N., 119 d. 10'E.
             Escort carrier SAVO ISLAND (CVE-78), by suicide plane,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              15 d. 50'N., 119 d. 00'E.
             Heavy cruiser LOUISVILLE (CA-28), by suicide plane,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              15 d. 00'N., 119 d. 00'E.
             Destroyer HELM (DD-388), by suicide plane,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              15 d. 00'N., 119 d. 00'E.
             Destroyer DAVID W. TAYLOR (DD-551), by mine,
              Bonin Islands area,
              27 d. 04'N., 142 d. 06'E.
             Destroyer escort EDWIN A. HOWARD (DE-346), by collision
              with destroyer escort LELAND E. THOMAS (DE-420),
              Philippine Islands area,
              09 d. 48'N., 127 d. 15'E.
             Destroyer escort STAFFORD (DE-411), by suicide plane,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              14 d. 00  N., 120 d. 00'E.
             Seaplane tender (small) ORCA (AVP-49), by suicide plane,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              15 d. 36'N., 119 d. 20'E.
             Ocean tug APACHE (ATF-67), by suicide plane,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              15 d. 53'N., 119 d. 00'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <ljewell@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 05:06:14 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <newst@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Type 93 Gyo/Fuel of?

    I'm working from memory here, and I'll admit that my record without a
    net isn't exactly sparkling, but my recollection of the Long Lance is
    that it used Hydrogen Peroxide as fuel.  When mixed with water this
    produced a gas under pressure that powered the torpedo.

    This also restricted the use of the torpedo to surface ships.  It was
    unsafe to keep Hydrogen Peroxide in submarines as the fumes, in
    concentration, are toxic, as many people who have used it as a cleaning
    fluid in a closed room have learned to their sorrow.

    I hope that the experts will correct me if I'm wrong.

    Steve New

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 00:58:38 -1000
From:    John DeVirgilio <devirgil@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Type 93 Gyo/Fuel of?

On Thu, 5 Jan 1995, Steve L. New wrote:

>     I'm working from memory here, and I'll admit that my record without a
>     net isn't exactly sparkling, but my recollection of the Long Lance is
>     that it used Hydrogen Peroxide as fuel.  When mixed with water this
>     produced a gas under pressure that powered the torpedo.
>
>     This also restricted the use of the torpedo to surface ships.  It was
>     unsafe to keep Hydrogen Peroxide in submarines as the fumes, in
>     concentration, are toxic, as many people who have used it as a cleaning
>     fluid in a closed room have learned to their sorrow.
>
>     I hope that the experts will correct me if I'm wrong.
>
>     Steve New
>


Hello from Hawaii again,


I can't seem to find any of my source materials on the Type 93 Gyorai in my
mess of a house "typhoon City".  Books and papers are everywhere...I need a
house keeper.  I will post the following from memory...

The type 93 Gyorai (Thunderfish) used enriched air (approx. 70% Oxygen)
mixed with kerosene and salt water. The lastest version of this weapon was
introduced in 1944.   This last model could carry one of three types
of warheads, the standard  1,720 pound warhead, or the slightly
lighter KITE flying trigger warhead, or a shaped charge V-warhead.

The best English source for IJN torpedoes can be found in the many
reports found in the U.S. Navy Technical Mission to Japan, 1946.  There is
also a very rare Japanese book on IJN torpedoes which can be found in
several places in Japan.  I seen this Japanese torpedo book at the Togo
Shrine in Tokyo. If memory serves me right, the title of this book was
"Torpedoes and Torpedo Mechanisms in the Imperial Japanese Navy"(?).  Maybe
someone on the Net can fill in the blanks here...my Japanese language
ability is lousy.


Aloha,

John DeVirgilio

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 01:15:36 -1000
From:    John DeVirgilio <devirgil@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Long Lance Fuel

Thomas W. and Steve New,


I can't seem to find any of my source materials on the Type 93 Gyorai in my
mess of a house "typhoon City".  Books and papers are everywhere...I need a
house keeper.  I will post the following from memory...

The type 93 Gyorai (Thunderfish) used enriched air (approx. 70% Oxygen)
mixed with kerosene and salt water. The lastest version of this weapon was
introduced in 1944.   This last model could carry one of three types
of warheads, the new and heavier 1,720 pound standard warhead, or the
slightly lighter KITE flying trigger warhead, or a shaped charge V-warhead.

The best English source for IJN torpedoes can be found in the many
reports within the U.S. Navy Technical Mission to Japan, 1946.  There is
also a very rare Japanese book on IJN torpedoes which can be found in
several places in Japan.  I saw this Japanese torpedo book at the Togo
Shrine in Tokyo. If memory serves me right, the title of this book was
"Torpedoes and Torpedo Mechanisms in the Imperial Japanese Navy"(?).  Maybe
someone on the Net can fill in the blanks here...my Japanese language
ability is lousy.


Aloha,

John DeVirgilio

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 01:23:40 -1000
From:    John DeVirgilio <devirgil@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Sorry about the type 93 repeat

Whoops...it is 1:19 A.M. in the morning here in Hawaii and my brain is not
functioning correctly.  I think I sent the type 93 fuel reply
twice.  I am confused with all the returned mail the listserver sent back
to me.  Again sorry to all...


John "MUD" Devirgilio

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 04:39:35 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 06-JAN-1945

On 06-JAN-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the U.S. 1st Army sector, the 2nd Armoured and 84th
Infantry Divisions make converging attacks toward Consy, taking positions
east and west of the town, respectively. The 2nd Armoured Division
continues on toward Dochamps and completes the occupation of Odeigne. The
3rd Armoured Division captures Fraiture, Lierneux and La Falise. In the 3rd
Army sector, German tanks enter Bonnerue which is lightly held by the 87th
Division. The 6th Armoured Division holds against repeated counterattacks.
The 35th Division attacks northeast of Lutrebois and maintains positions in
the Villers-la-Bonne-Eau area. In the 7th Army sector, the 45th Division
makes slow progress against the left and center of the Bitche salient and
on the east contain counterattacks on Philippsbourg. The Germans continue
their build up west of the Rhine. The 79th Division clears Stattmatten.

Philippines - The leading task groups of the Luzon invasion force reach
Lingayen Gulf and begin naval bombardment and mine sweeping. Japanese air
attacks continue resulting in the battleships New Mexico and California
and cruisers Louisville, Minneapolis and Columbia being damaged.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 08:11:26 -0500
From:    Thoams Wildenberg <wildman@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Long Lance

 John  D. and Steve New,

I'm amazed at the lack of interest/knowledge about this weapon which was
the cornerstone of the IJN strategy of attrition.  In your last comment
you noted

> The best English source for IJN torpedoes can be found in the many
> reports within the U.S. Navy Technical Mission to Japan, 1946.

Are these located in OpArchives at Naval Historical Center??  I'd love to
do an article, but have too much on my plate now.

John .... I'd rather have too much info then none, keep it coming no
matter what the hour.  I'm an early bird myself so its not a problem.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 08:51:48 -0500
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <sep@TVSS2.COMMNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: ? resources

"Up Periscope?"

That's the first war book I ever read. Still have my copy. I reread it (again)
a year or so ago, and still enjoyed it. I got it in second grade, and everybody
told me it was too advanced.

Thanx for the memories!
                                                                Steve P.

(forgot my .sig file)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 08:56:11 -0500
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <sep@TVSS2.COMMNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: ? resources

Does anybody have an opinion on the TIME magazing videos of WW-II that
were free with a paid subscription?

May those be suitable for classroom? I did notice that the Pacific one
had NO mention of pelalaiu. (Sorry, Frank, I forget the spelling)

                                                                Steve

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 07:18:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 5 JAN 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FRIDAY, 5 JANUARY 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang
  P-61, Northrop Black Widow

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): In the Kurile Islands, 4 B-24s fly an air
coverage mission for a naval task force on its approach to Suribachi on
Paramushiru Island.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): 4 B-25s pound 13 storage buildings at
Kengtung, China. 5 B-25s knock out a bridge at Dara, Thailand. 3 B-25s bomb
Wan Pa-Hsa and Hawng Luk, Burma while 1 B-24 bombs the Cap-Saint-Jacques,
French Indochina area. 29 P-40s and P-51s hit airfields at Hankow and
Wuchang, China, claiming 50 aircraft destroyed in the air and on the ground.
23 P-51s and P-38s hit the airfield and other targets in Samah Bay area on
Hainan Island, claiming 11 aircraft destroyed. 30 P-40s and P-38s attack
various targets of opportunity, Sinsiang, and Kengtung, China, and Wan Pa-Hsa
and in the Wanling area of Burma. 4 P-40s pound fortified hill positions in
the Salween, Burma area.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 16 B-25s flying an
airfield sweep inflict considerable damage on the Laihka, Aungban, Kunlon,
and Mong Long airfields; in the Namhkam sector, 2 P-47s join ground forces in
blasting artillery positions at Kunlong, China and Wingkang; 9 P-47s damage
bypass bridges at Mongmit; 70+ fighter-bombers attack storage areas, tanks
and trucks, and troop concentrations at Mong Yaw, Hsenwi, Hpa-Pen, Man Ton,
Tunghka, Man Peng, and Longhsu. Transports fly 550+ sorties to forward bases
and frontline areas. Operation GRUBWORM, one of the major transport
achievements of the war, is completed on this date one month from its start.
The Chinese 14th and 22d Divisions, Chinese Sixth Army HQ, a heavy mortar
Company, a signal Company, and 2 portable surgical hospitals have been
airlifted; the move required 1,328 transport sorties; Air Transport Command
provided 597 sorties; the air commando squadrons, 488; and Tenth AF, 243; the
airlift included 25,000+ Chinese soldiers, 396 US soldiers, 1,596 animals,
42 jeeps, 48 howitzers, 48 heavy mortars, and 48 antitank guns; the troops
and supplies have been landed at Chanyi, Kunming, Luliang, and Yunnani, China.
Only 3 aircraft were lost during the operation. HQ 4th Combat Cargo Group
moves from Agartala to Chittagong, India.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
  Mission 781: 1,032 bombers and 584 fighters are dispathed to hit rail
targets and airfields in C Germany; they claim 1-0-0 Luftwaffe aircraft in
the air and 4-0-0 on the ground; 1 B-17 and 1 P-51 are lost.
  1. 259 B-24s are sent to hit marshalling yards at Neustadt (32), Sobernheim
(42), Kirm (18) and St Ingbert (3), the marshalling yard and rail bridge at
Cochem (31) and the Pirmasens railroad (39); 51 hit the Neunkirchen
marshalling yard, a secondary target; targets of opportunities hit are
communications centers at Rheinkirchen (8), Neubrucke (7), Prum (1) and Burg
(1); bombing is visual and with Gee-H; 3 B-24s are damaged beyond repair and
51 damaged; 6 airmen are KIA and 1 WIA. Escorting are 164 of 177 P-51s.
  2. 370 B-17s are dispatched to hit marshalling yards at Hanau (57) and
Frankfurt (81) and communications centers at Waxweiler (32), Wetteldorf (27)
and Pronsfeld (33); 29 hit the secondary target at Kaiserslautern; targets of
opportunity are Heilbronn (29) and other (11); bombing is visual and PFF; 1
B-17 is lost, 6 damaged beyond repair and 89 damaged; 13 airmen are KIA, 9
WIA and 1 MIA. Escort is provided by 194 of 213 P-51s; they claim 1-0-0
aircraft in the air and 4-0-0 on the ground.
  3. 379 B-17s are sent to hit airfields at Niederbreisig (70) and
Niedermendig (54), communications centers at Dumpelfeld (37), Kall (35) and
Mechernich (1), and the the railroad at Heimbach (37); 96 hit the secondary
target, the Koblenz marshalling yard; targets of opportunity are
communications centers at Pronsfeld (2) and Waxweiler (1) and other (4);
bombing is by Gee-H and H2X; 1 B-17s is damaged beyond repair and 20 damaged.
Escort is 109 of 117 P-51s; 1 P-51 is lost (pilot MIA) and 1 damaged beyond
repair.
  4. 24 of 24 B-17s fly a screening mission.
  5. 26 of 33 P-51s fly a scouting mission.
  Mission 782: 4 B-24s and 1 B-17 drop leaflets during the night over SE
Belgium.

 TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): The 9th Bombardment Division attacks
rail bridges at Ahrweiler, Simmern, and Bullay, Germany and communications
centers at Gouvy, Houffalize, and near Durler, Belgium, and Massen,
Luxembourg. Fighters escort the 9th Bombardment Division and VIII Bomber
Command, fly armed reconnaissance, attack airfields, communications centers,
traffic concentrations, and other targets, and support the US III and VIII
Corps W and E of Bastogne and the 2d and 3d Armored Divisions near Manhay,
Belgium. HQ 368th Fighter Group and the 395th, 396th and 397th Fighter
Squadrons move from Juvincourt to Metz, France with P-47s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Yugoslavia, 1 B-24 bombs
Zagreb railroad sidings; 69 others abort due to total cloud cover over the
target; 38 P-51s fly cover over the target area; 33 P-38s bomb the N railroad
bridge at Doboj; other operations are limited to reconnaissance, supply drops,
and escort.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): During the night of 4/5 Jan, A-20s
on a S Po Valley intruder mission bomb the Modena, Italy area. Bad weather
cancels all other operations.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 22 B-24s from Saipan Island, in morning and
afternoon raids, pound Iwo Jima Island; 7 P-38s, with 3 B-24s as navigational
escort, fly a strafing mission against Iwo Jima. Other B-24s act as airborne
spotters for the naval bombardment of Chichi Jima and Haha Jima Islands.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: In major strikes of
the day B-25s hit shore installations along Lingayan Gulf, Luzon Island, and
bomb Menado on Celebes Island. B-24s attack Miri Airfield in Borneo. Numerous
smaller strikes are flown throughout the Philippine Islands and Netherlands
East Indies. A-20s and fighter-bombers attack airfields on Luzon, the C
Philippine Islands area and Mindanao Island, fighter-bombers and B-24s hit
the Pombelaa and Tondano area, and targets of opportunity on NE Celebes
Island. Other FEAF aircraft fly scattered strikes at various targets in
Borneo, Lesser Sunda Islands, and Tanimbar Island in the Moluccas Islands.
The 4th Fighter Squadron (Commando), 3d Air Commando Group, arrives on Leyte
Island from the US with P-51s. The detachment of the 68th Troop Carrier
Squadron, 433d Troop Carrier Group, operating from Nadzab, New Guinea with
C-47s, returns to base on Biak Island. The 69th Troop Carrier Squadron, 433d
Troop Carrier Group moves from Nadzab, New Guinea to Biak Island with C-47s.
The 547th Night Fighter Squadron, 86th Fighter Wing [attached to 310th
Bombardment Wing (Medium)], moves from Owi, Schouten Island to San Jose,
Mindoro Island with P-38s and P-61s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

05/1218Z JAN

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:24:45 +0001
From:    Ira H Krakow <ikrakow@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: Re: "Martyred Villages"

On Thu, 5 Jan 1995, George PISZCZUK wrote:

> One that comes to mind is the village of Khatyn, Belorussia (Belarus)
>
> The occupants of 26 houses were forced into a church and that church was set on
> fire.
>
> Today, across the country side, in place of the homes, stand bell towers that
> symbolize the chimneys. The bells toll every minute or so.
>
> Along with the mass grave, the wall of rememberance, the symbol of tree of
> life and the memorial roof stands the famous sculpture of the Unconquered Man.
>
> To walk around that place well....... it is if their spirits are still there.
>
> George.
>

  Is that the same Khatyn as in the "Katyn forest".  This is a notorious
area where the Nazis found the bodies of thousands of Polish officers
and accused Stalin of killing them so as to stamp out Polish resistance
to Soviet rule (remember that Poland was partitioned in 1939 as a
result of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact).  The Nazis claimed that Stalin
deported these officers to Katyn and massacred them.  For many years
the Soviets denied it, but recently they have admitted the facts.

  Certainly there's enough atrocity stories to go around.

Ira
ikrakow@world.std.com

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:57:03 EST
From:    Richard Kaplan <kaplanr@CLP2.CLPGH.ORG>
Subject: Lou Coatney's paper ships

Haven't heard from Lou in awhile, but I thaught the list would be interested in
a tidbit about him.  In the latest Fine Scale Modeler is a short product
announcement with picture of paper ships designed and assembled by Lou Coatney.
There is ordering information and a phone number.  Three cheers for one of the
list.

If there are any Pittsburghers out there, or people living within driving
distance, there is a B-17 out at Beaver County Airport at the Air Heritage
Museum.  Give them a call at (412) 843-2820.  The admission or donation is
2.00, and the ship is the one used to portry the Memphis Belle in the movie.
This is in case my post after X-mas missed people.

                                        Richard Kaplan
                                        Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh




------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 10:48:46 -0500
From:    Warren Thompson <THOMPSON@ACAD.LVC.EDU>
Subject: Re: air attacks- Auschwitz

The US air force photographed the entire Auschwitz/Birkenau/Monowitz area from
the spring 1944 through early 1945. On my office wall I have a computer
enhanced copy of a photo dated 26 June 44, taken from 30K feet, of all three
sites. Photos were taken, not because the camps were, but because of the
synthetic rubber and oil plants at Monowitz. The latter was bombed at least
once.

Copies of photos are available from the National Archives.

-- Warren Thompson

thompson@acad.lvc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 10:16:58 -0600
From:    Dick Kimberly <kimberly@KCMETRO.CC.MO.US>
Subject: Re: ? resources

Although it will not give the full picture of war, anyone wanting to look
at films might consider "The Boat"


The film is subtitled in English.  Even so, it is one of the best films
of the war and a "classic" in my opinion.

Comments?

Dick

                                         Dick Kimberly
                                         Home: (816) 246 4544
                                         Office: (816) 325 6342
                                         Metropolitan Community Colleges
                                         Kansas City, MO

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 08:26:53 U
From:    Henry Herz <Henry_Herz@CPQM.SAIC.COM>
Subject: INF- 2 quick questions

                      Subject:                              Time:  8:21 AM
  OFFICE MEMO         INF: 2 quick questions                Date:  1/5/95

Can anyone tell me:

(1) The name and email of someone at the (British) Imperial War Museum.
(2) The name and email of anyone with access to US Government films from
World War II (i.e., at National Archives, various armed services)?

Thanks.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 11:59:57 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <paa5137@DPSC.DLA.MIL>
Subject: MEDIA:Submarine Commander Dies

>From the DoD Newswire 30 December 1994

RIP

======


:SECOND WORLD WAR UK SUBMARINE HERO DIES AT 73

    LONDON, Dec 29  -  Midget submarine captain Godfrey Place,
who crippled the giant German battleship Tirpitz in 1943, has died at
the age of 73, his family said on Thursday.
     Rear-Admiral Place became a war hero at the age of 22 for his
part in a top-secret mission against the 41,000-tonne battleship that
was the pride of Adolf Hitler's German navy.
     Place, captured after the daring raid, was given the Victoria
Cross, Britain's highest award for bravery.
     On the 1,000-mile (1,600 km) North Sea journey from Scotland to
Norway where the Tirpitz was anchored, a mine became impaled on the
nose of his submarine. He calmly surfaced and kicked it off.

=====


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        jirwin@dpsc.dla.mil
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 11:57:43 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <paa5137@DPSC.DLA.MIL>
Subject: MEDIA:German Base Renamed

>From the DoD Newswire 4 January 1995

:GERMANY TO RENAME ARMY BASE TO HONOUR ANTI-NAZI

    BONN, Jan 3  - Germany will rename an army base in Berlin
to honour an anti-Nazi who took part in a plot to kill Adolf Hitler,
the defence ministry said on Tuesday.
     The barracks, formerly called the Quartier Napoleon, will be
renamed after Julius Leber, a Social Democrat politician who resisted
the Nazis and participated in the unsuccessful attempt in July 1944 to
blow up Hitler with a timebomb.
     Defence Minister Volker Ruehe will rename the base at a ceremony
on Thursday, the 50th anniversary of Leber's execution.
     The Quartier Napoleon was used by the French military as their
headquarters in the city during the post-war division of Germany and
Berlin. The Allies -- Britain, France, Russia and the United States --
withdrew from Berlin last year, four years after German unification.
     More than 5,000 people were arrested in the wake of the 1944
assassination attempt led by four army officers. Historians put the
number of those executed at about 2,800.

=====


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        jirwin@dpsc.dla.mil
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 11:53:40 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <paa5137@DPSC.DLA.MIL>
Subject: MEDIA:Auschwitz Survivors

>From the DoD Newswire 3 January 1995


:AUSCHWITZ SURVIVORS TO MEET

   JERUSALEM  -- A first-ever gathering of survivors from the
Auschwitz death camp will highlight 50th-anniversary observances of
the defeat of the Nazis, Israel announced Sunday.
   Avner Shalev, director of the Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial, said
programs will focus on Jews who fought the Nazis in ghettos, as
partisans or in Allied armies.
   At the main ceremony, planned for Jan. 22 at Yad Vashem in
Jerusalem, Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin will unveil a new memorial
for Jews deported to Auschwitz.
   Israeli architect Moshe Safdie designed the monument, placing a
cattle car donated by the Polish government on a section of
suspended railway tracks.
   More than 2 million people, mostly Jews, are estimated to have
perished at Auschwitz, the largest Nazi death camp, set up in
Nazi-occupied Poland during World War II.
   About half of the estimated 5,000 survivors who reached Israel
are alive and will meet at the ceremony, 50 years after the Soviet
Army freed them, said Yad Vashem spokeswoman Billie Laniado.
   Survivors will inscribe in a special memorial book their names
and the numbers tattooed on their left forearms by the Nazis.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        jirwin@dpsc.dla.mil
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 12:32:38 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <MFY@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Martyred Villages"

        George, I once saw a Russian movie (the title was translated as
"Come and See") about a teenage Byelorussian partisan wannabe, the central
event was the destruction of a Byelorussian village in exactly the manner
you just described, all from the point of view of this kid as he's forced into
the church (he's one of the few that survive by crawling out an unguarded
window).  I'm wondering if the movie was based on the incident you referred
to.

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 10:48:56 -0800
From:    Ellen Shepard <ESHEPARD@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Returned mail:  Host unknown (Name server: ubm.cc.buffalo.edu:
         host not found)

---- Begin Forwarded Message

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        id JAA04033; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:30:24 -0800
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:30:24 -0800
From: Mailer-Daemon (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
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Message-Id: <199501051730.JAA04033@ix2.ix.netcom.com>
To: <ESHEPARD@ix.netcom.com>

The original message was received at Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:30:21 -0800
from ix-la3-01.ix.netcom.com [199.35.205.97]

   ----- The following addresses had delivery problems -----
<WWII-L@UBM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>  (unrecoverable error)

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        id JAA04028; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:30:21 -0800
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:30:21 -0800
Message-Id: <199501051730.JAA04028@ix2.ix.netcom.com>
From: ESHEPARD@ix.netcom.com (Ellen Shepard)
Subject: Refugees to the US
To: WWII-L@UBM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU

i am looking for extensive and specific information regarding the people who
escaped or immigrated to the us during wwii.  this info is for the documentary i
am producing, "memories from the women of world war II."

some of the answers i need are -
where did they settle (city and state)?
where did they come from?
how did they get  here?
were they sponsored?
how were they treated by us citizens?
what kind of work did they find?

i would appreciate any answers - large or small.  i thank you

ellen shepard, producer





---- End Forwarded Message

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 14:23:26 EST
From:    Mike Fetters <NASEM015@SIVM.SI.EDU>
Subject: Re: V-2 Book Review

For local folks, "The Rocket and the Reich" is sold in the Museum Shops at the
 National Air and Space Museum.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 14:32:51 -0500
From:    John Sloan <JohnS426@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Codebreaking and the Neut...

David Alvarez is asking about WWII codebreaking and neutrals. I listened with
great attention to a paper delivered at a special symposium on military
history we organized in St. Petersburg in 1992 on visit to the Artillery
museum and other military places. The paper was on the Swedish reading of
German codes before and during the war. Will have to hunt for notes in my
files. Seems the German phone lines accross Sweden were being tapped (surprise
 surprise!!!) and traffic was read.
will try for more later

best wishes

john sloan

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 14:04:58 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: MEDIA: Eugene P. Wigner Obituary

Excerpted from today's (January 5) Washington Post

>From News Services

PRINCETON, NJ - Eugene P. Wigner, 92, a Nobel Prize winning physicist who
helped persuade Albert Einstein to promote the potential of nuclear power,
died of pneumonia January 1 at the Medical Center of Princeton.

A professor emeritus in mathematical physics at Princeton University, Dr.
Wigner won the Nobel Prize in physics in 1963 for his insight into quantum
mechanics.  He used group theory to organize the quantum energy levels of
electrons in atoms.

He also played a prominent role in the development of the atomic bomb and
nuclear energy.  Together with fellow Hungarian expatriate Leo Szilard, he
persuaded Einstein to write to President Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1939
about the potential to produce vast amounts of energy from uranium.

Dr. Wigner took a leave of absence from Princeton in 1942 to join a team at
the University of Chicago working on the secret project designing reactors
to produce the first plutonium for nuclear weapons.  He was credited with
developing the theoretical methods used to achieve the first controlled
chain reaction, which occurred on a squash court of the university on
December 2, 1942.

[... other achievements and personal stuff deleted ...]

In addition to the Nobel Prize, his honors included the Order of Merit,
which he received from Hungary in 1994, the National Science Medal, the
Albert Einstein Award and the Max Planck Medal of the German Physical
Society.

END OF EXCERPT.

I was privileged to sit in on a lecture given by Dr. Wigner over 10 years
ago while attending Mary Washington College, in Fredericksburg, Virginia.
He was invited there by one of our Physics professors, who was a personal
friend of Dr. Wigners.

It was fascinating to listen to him recount stories of his time spent on
these early projects with some of the greatest scientific minds of our
century.  He was very kind and humble, and at my request, even autographed
a sign which had been placed around campus advertising his lecture.  I'm
sure he will be greatly missed.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 15:18:40 EST
From:    Mike Fetters <NASEM015@SIVM.SI.EDU>
Subject: ? resources

The Department of Defense 50th Anniversary of World War II Commemoration Commi
ttee has produced a brochure of "educational resources" including bookmarks, po
sters, factsheets, audio/video cassettes, slide presentations, speeches, and br
ochures.  The brochure I'm reading says that these prodcuts are available to al
l Department of Defense agencies.  I'm sure that somehow these materials may al
so be available to teachers.  You may want to call the WWII Commemoration Commi
ttee at 703-692-2116.  I hope this is helpful.  I've seen some of their materia
ls and they're quite good!

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 16:05:48 EST
From:    Mike Long <MLONG@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: WEAP:Japanese Planes?

John De Virgilio gave a good descrition of Japanese dive bomber bombs.
He describes the Type 99 Kanbuku which I pretty sure was know to the US
as the VAL.

I'm not familiar with the Suisei type, what was it's Allied designation?

Thanks,
Mike

Michael Long
Programmer Analyst II
University of Connecticut
196 Auditorium Road, U-138    |   Bitnet: MLONG@UCONNVM.BITNET
Storrs, Connecticut, USA      | Internet: MLONG@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU
                   06269-3138 |    Phone: (203) 486-1352

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 13:39:21 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: ? resources

... And if you want your students to really understand Nazi concentration
camp atrocities, obtain for the factual documentary movie --
        TESTIMONY OF THE CAMPS.

It is a movie filmed within days of the liberation of Bergen-Belsen
Concentration Camp. It includes the spoken testimony of actual soldiers
who liberated that hell-hole, and actual survivors of Belsen.

Grainy black and white 16 mm. film. No "dramatizations". No surging
background music. The harsh reality of what Belse and and places like that
*really* were.

        TESTIMONY OF THE CAMPS was released from British archives a few years
ago, and was televised over some PBS TV stations in Canada and the United States.


It is the most accurate record of Nazi inhumanity anyone can witness. Whether
high school children today could stomach such reality is another matter.

Sidney Allinson.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 17:16:22 EST
From:    William Lippert <WL1958A@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: ? resources

On Thu, 5 Jan 1995 10:16:58 -0600 Dick Kimberly said:
>Although it will not give the full picture of war, anyone wanting to look
>at films might consider "The Boat"
>
>
>The film is subtitled in English.  Even so, it is one of the best films
>of the war and a "classic" in my opinion.
>
>Comments?
>
>Dick
>
>                                         Dick Kimberly
>                                         Home: (816) 246 4544
>                                         Office: (816) 325 6342
>                                         Metropolitan Community Colleges
>                                         Kansas City, MO


I believe there is an English dubbed version.  I'm pretty sure I saw
it at Blockbuster the other day.

William Lippert
The American University

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 14:23:50 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: "Martyred Villages"

Your request for a list of villages destroyed by the Germans would
require a very thick book, indeed.

For every well-known incidence -- Lidice, say -- there are a hundred
now-ignored such sad places.

Even Lidice [its buildings razed, its men, women, and children murdered]
the Czek village destroyed by the SS in rage after the assasination of
'Butcher' Heydrich, was only one of three such places destroyed there in
a single day.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:18:51 +1100
From:    George PISZCZUK <PHGPI@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: "Martyred Villages"

Two different places and atrocities but in the same general area. I think it is
about twenty kilometers apart. One by Germans, one by Russians.

George

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 18:12:55 EST
From:    Paul Gregor <PGREGOR@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Codebreaking and the Neutrals

Mr Alvarez:

I realize that you asked for Codebreaking and the neutral nations, but am
intrigued by a book called Poland in the Second World War, by Josef
Garlinski... in it is contained some info on the enigma machine as construct-
ed by Polish cryptanalysts and given to British intelligence...so much for
all the stereotypes.  While we are on the subject of neutrals and occupieds,
does anyone have source info on the respective air forces of the smaller
nations during the war? I read once about either the Swiss or the Swedes
shooting down German aircraft with ME-109s they had purchased from the
Germans.  Also I read with interest the "Honved" postings and would welcome
further info.

                                           Paul Gregor

                                           Kent State

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 00:29:05 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@EVS2.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: WEAP:Japanese Planes?

On Thu, 5 Jan 1995, Mike Long wrote:

> I'm not familiar with the Suisei type, what was it's Allied designation?

Yokosuka D4Y Suisei 'Judy'.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:29:55 +1100
From:    George PISZCZUK <PHGPI@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: "Martyred Villages"

        George, I once saw a Russian movie (the title was translated as
"Come and See") about a teenage Byelorussian partisan wannabe, the central
event was the destruction of a Byelorussian village in exactly the manner
you just described, all from the point of view of this kid as he's forced into
the church (he's one of the few that survive by crawling out an unguarded
window).  I'm wondering if the movie was based on the incident you referred
to.

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

I believe it is the same place. The sculpture of the Unconquered Man
depicts the boy being carried by a local.

George

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 19:01:58 -0500
From:    Thoams Wildenberg <wildman@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: V-2 Book Review

Hi Mike, I'm the guy that posted the original note.  I also just finished
writing a finding aid for Patty Williams up at the NASM library and
archives.  I don't think we've met, but from the address and previous
postings you must work at the Smithsonian.  I'd like to know more about
what you do and you're specific interests in WWII.  I'll be glad to do
same if your interested.

Tom Wildenberg
Silver Spring

On Thu, 5 Jan 1995, Mike Fetters wrote:

> For local folks, "The Rocket and the Reich" is sold in the Museum Shops at the
>  National Air and Space Museum.
>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 19:37:42 -0500
From:    Thoams Wildenberg <wildman@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP:Japanese Planes?

I'm not up on my Japanese aircraft identification.  What were the basic
characteristics of this plane, i.e. was it a single engine carrier plane?

On Fri, 6 Jan 1995, Emmanuel Gustin wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Jan 1995, Mike Long wrote:
>
> > I'm not familiar with the Suisei type, what was it's Allied designation?
>
> Yokosuka D4Y Suisei 'Judy'.
>
> Emmanuel Gustin
>

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 00:47:29 +0000
From:    Nechama Cox <nechama@BOREALIS.COM>
Subject: Re: "Martyred Villages"

>One that comes to mind is the village of Khatyn, Belorussia (Belarus)
>
>The occupants of 26 houses were forced into a church and that church was set on
>fire.

I think that Martin Gilbert in "The Holocaust" gives a description of this
massacre. If I am recalling the right story, it was told very well and
stuck in my mind as one of the more moving parts of, in my opinion, a very
well written book.


Nechama Cox
nechama@borealis.com


                        `---: - .
                         |=|    ``
_        _--_        _--_|=|      \\
--\    /---\--\    /---\-|=|       ..
\__\  /--/  \--\  /--/  \|=| 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1
 \--`/--/    \--`/--/    |=|       ''
  `-__-'      `-__-'     |=|       ::
                         |=|      ;;
                         ;=|     ..
                        .!&!:._''

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 19:56:50 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <newst@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Japanese Planes

    The Yokosuka D4Y1 Suisei (code named JUDY) was a single engined,
    carrier based bomber.  Designed in 1938, with prototype trials
    beginning in 1940.

    The first two versions D4Y1 (660 built) and D4Y2 (326 built) were
    hampered by an unreliable V12 in-line engine.

    The final version D4Y3 (1,062 built) replaced the V12 with a radial
    engine, but by that time the airframe was hopelessly obsolete.

    Steve New
    NEWST@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 02:11:14 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@EVS2.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: WEAP:Japanese Planes?

On Thu, 5 Jan 1995, Thoams Wildenberg wrote:

> I'm not up on my Japanese aircraft identification.  What were the basic
> characteristics of this plane, i.e. was it a single engine carrier plane?

The Yokosuka D4Y Suisei ("Comet") 'Judy' was a single-engined
carrier-borne dive bomber.  As Japanese WWII aircraft usually are, it is a
clean, low-wing design with retractable landing gear. The design seems
also to have been inspired by German practice, and the Heinkel He 118
prototype. The D4Y1 and D4Y2 versions had an Aichi Atsuta liquid-cooled
engine, with a 'shark-mouth' coolant radiator under the nose. This
technology was not very advanced in Japan, and the engine was unreliable.
The early versions also suffered from structural weaknesses, and were
unsuitable for dive-bombing.  The D4Y3 had a Kinsei 62 radial engine,
which changed the appearance.

The D4Y2 could carry 560kg of bombs, had a top speed of 580km/h, a ceiling
of 10700m and a range of 3600km. That is a significant improvement over
the old Aichi D3A 'Val' (310kg, 390km/h, 9500m, 1470km) but when the D4Y
entered service the happy days for Japan were already over. The crew of
two probably hadn't a decent chance, even if they were not on a suicide
mission. There is a D4Y2 in the Yakusuni memorial in Tokyo.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 02:38:09 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@EVSDS.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: WWW page announcement

Announcement for these who didn't get the earlier one:

There is a WWW page up at

         http://www.vestnett.no/vulcan/index.html

devoted to military history. At the moment most files at this
site are related to military aviation: lists of "all" military
aircraft, a list of acronyms and codenames, a description of
designation systems, a very incomplete overview of aircraft
markings, and other items.

We are still seeking volunteers to add other information...

For those unfamiliar with the World-Wide Web: you need a
specialized browser, such as Lynx, NCSA Mosaic, Cello or
Netscape, to read these pages.  There is already a
lot of information on the WWW --- there also is a short list of
other sites at the above page.

Emmanuel Gustin
gustin@uia.ac.be

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 20:44:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 6 JAN 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SATURDAY, 6 JANUARY 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  Beaufighter, Bristol
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): On Paramushiru Island in the Kurile Islands, 2
B-24s bomb Suribachi Bay Airfield, also hitting buildings and pier areas. 10
B-25s fly single air coverage sorties for a naval task force.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 40 P-40s, P-51s, and P-47s
pound the Hankow-Wuchang area; 9 aircraft are claimed destroyed. 4 B-24s bomb
the Cap-Saint-Jacques, French Indochina area.

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force): Mission 25: 49 Chengtu, China-based B-29s are
dispatched to bomb an aircraft factory at Omura, Kyushu Island, Japan; 28 hit
the primary target, 13 bomb a secondary target at Nanking, China while 6
attack targets of opportunity; they claim 4-6-10 Japanese aircraft; 1 B-29 is
lost. The is the XX Bomber Command's last mission against targets in Japan.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): Bad weather cancels all combat
missions. Transports manage 310 sorties, landing men and supplies at advanced
bases and dropping supplies to frontline troops. The 317th Troop Carrier
Squadron (Commando), 2d Air Commando Group, moves from Myitkyina, Burma to
Kalaikunda, India with C-47s.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
  Mission 783: 816 bombers and 622 fighters are dispatched to hit rail and
communications targets in W Germany; all but a few attacks are made using
Gee-H and H2X; they claim 14-0-1 Luftwaffe aircraft on the ground; 1 B-17 and
2 P-51s are lost:
  1. 258 B-17s are dispatched to hit marshalling yards at Worms (62) and
Kaiserslautern (34); 64 hit a secondary target, the marshalling yard at
Ludwigshafen; targets of opportunity are Annweiler (31), the marshalling yard
at Kusel (22) and other (29); some targets are bombed visually; 2 B-17s are
damaged beyond repair and 55 damaged; 5 airmen are KIA and 2 WIA. Escorting
are 109 of 121 P-51s; they claim 14-0-1 aircraft on the ground; 1 P-51 is
lost (pilot MIA) and 2 damaged beyond repair (1 pilot KIA).
  2. 422 B-17s are sent to hit the Cologne South rail bridge (71) and Cologne
North highway bridge (35) and the communications center at Kempernich (72);
secondary targets are the Kalk marshalling yard at Cologne (183) and the
highway bridge across the Rhine River at Bonn (38); 3 others hit a target of
opportunity; 1 B-17 is lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 17 damaged; 1 airman
is WIA and 10 MIA. Escort is provided by 219 of 229 P-51s; 1 P-51 is lost
(pilot MIA) and 2 damaged beyond repair (1 pilot KIA).
  3. 31 of 130 B-24s hit the highway bridge across the Rhine River at Bonn;
95 hit the secondary target, the Mosel marshalling yard at Koblenz; 1 hits a
target of opportunity; 1 B-24 is damaged beyond repair and 17 damaged. The
escort is 172 of 181 P-51s.
  4. 6 of 6 B-17s fly a screening mission.
  5. 36 of 60 P-47s attack the marshalling yard at Siegen.
  6. 23 of 23 P-51s fly a scouting mission.
  7. 8 of 8 P-51s escort 4 F-5s on a photo reconnaissance mission over W
Germany.
  Mission 784: 6 B-17s drop leaflets over Belgium and the Netherlands during
the night.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS: (Ninth Air Force): 26 bombers of the 9th Bombardment
Division strike Prum, Germany. Bad weather prevents all fighter operations.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Bad weather precludes all
operations except a single reconnaissance mission by 2 P-38s.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): Bad weather over N Italy grounds
the medium bombers. In Italy, XXII Tactical Air Command fighters and fighter-
bombers hit rail lines and bridges in the Genoa-La Spezia coastline area, and
bomb vessels in the harbors at Genoa and Imperia. The air echelon of the
417th Night Fighter Squadron, Twelfth AF (attached to Mediterranean Allied
Coastal Air Force and air echelon attached to the 422d Night Fighter
Squadron), based at La Vallon, France, begins operating from Florennes,
Belgium with Beaufighters.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 15 B-24s, based on Guam Island, bomb Iwo Jima
Island airfields. During the night of 6/7 Jan, 9 B-24s on individual snooper
strikes continue to pound the airfields. HQ 508th Fighter Group and the
466th, 467th and 468th Fighter Squadrons arrive at Kahuku, Hawaii from the US
with P-47s (the group will serve as air defense for Hawaii, train replacement
pilots and ferry aircraft to forward areas).

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: In the day's major
operations, B-24s bomb Clark Field while B-25s, A-20s, and fighter-bombers
blast bridges and targets of opportunity at Calumpit and Plaridel and in
nearby S Luzon Island areas and B-24s bomb Nichols Field and Nielson Airfield
on Luzon. A-20s, with P-38 cover, bomb Carolina Airfield on Negros Island.
B-25s and fighter-bombers hit Mapanget Airfield on Celebes Island. FEAF flies
numerous smaller strikes against various points throughout the Netherlands
East Indies and Philippine Islands.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

06/0144Z JAN

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 19:01:02 -0800
From:    David Alvarez <dalvarez@STMARYS-CA.EDU>
Subject: Codebreaking and the Neutrals

John Sloan,

Thanks for the information on Swedish codebreaking.  During the war
Swedish cryptanalysts apparently registered successes against certain of
the codes of Britain, France, Germany, Italy, and the United States.  As
you point out, the effort against German codes and ciphers was
facilitated by the fact that Berlin used Swedish lines to communicate
with Oslo, Narvik, Tronheim, Helsinki, and of course Stockholm.  On one
occasion, the Swedes burgled the office of the German military attache in
search of code materials.  Swedish cryptanalysis is briefly covered by
David Kahn in his book, THE CODEBREAKERS, and more briefly by C.G. McKay
in his book on the intelligence war in Sweden, FROM INFORMATION TO INTRIGUE.

I look forward to any notes you might have of the St. Petersberg meeting.

Thanks,

David Alvarez
Saint Mary's College of California
dalvarez@stmarys-ca.edu

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 4 Jan 1995 to 5 Jan 1995
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 38 messages totalling 1166 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. ? resources
  2. Smithsonian Contact Needed (4)
  3. INF: USN Chronology 01-06-95 (2)
  4. Neutrals
  5. Largest AAF Strike (2)
  6. "Martyred Villages" (4)
  7. 3rd Army Chronology - 7Jan45
  8. TV series the World at War
  9. NOST: Normandy
 10. Movie "Das Boot" (3)
 11. Fwd: Russian Aircraft Museum
 12. MEDIA:MIAs Home at Last
 13. BOOK: World at Arms (was: TV series the World at War)
 14. WEAP:Japanese Planes? (3)
 15. Death of Billy SHAFER, 7th Army (USA), 63rd Division
 16. Battle of the Bulge (2)
 17. Smithsonian Contact Need
 18. INF: 50 Years Ago - 07-JAN-1945 (2)
 19. Promo 'Das Bird'
 20. WWW page announcement (2)
 21. DOC: "The Invasion of Japan", some thoughts.
 22. ARC: History at USD
 23. INF- 2 quick questions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 13:31:02 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: ? resources

THE WORLD AT WAR is an accurate ducumentary about events during the Seco



Second World Wa.

There are no "slants imposed by Sir Laurence Olivier".
he is merely the voice-over, an actor hired to speak the words written in
the script.

Sidney Allinson.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 Jan 1995 19:47:13 -1000
From:    John DeVirgilio <devirgil@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Smithsonian Contact Needed

Hello Everybody:

Can anybody give a name, E-mail address, phone number, or postal address to
somebody associated with the Enola Gay exhibit to be opened at the Smithsonian
Museum.   Any information would be of great help.

Thanks,

John DeVirgilio

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 04:00:18 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 01-06-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
01/06 Sat. Aircraft from fast carrier task force (Vice Adm. J. S.
           McCain) commence 1-day attack on Japanese aircraft and
           airfield facilities in Luzon area, P. I.
            United States naval vessels sunk:
             High-speed minesweeper HOVEY (DMS-11), by aircraft
              torpedo, Luzon area, P.I.,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             High-speed minesweeper LONG (DMS-12), by suicide plane,
              Philippine Islands area,
              16 d. 12'N., 120 d. 11'E.
            United States naval vessels damaged:
             Battleships NEW MEXICO (BB-40) and CALIFORNIA (BB-44),by
              suicide planes, Luzon area, P. I.,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             Heavy cruiser LOUISVILLE (CA-28), by suicide plane,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              16 d. 37'N., 120 d. 17'E.
             Heavy cruiser MINNEAPOLIS (CA-36), by suicide plane,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              16 d. 10'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             Light cruiser COLUMBIA (CL-56), by suicide plane,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             Destroyer NEWCOMB (DD-586), by suicide plane and
              accidentally by United States naval gunfire,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'.E
             Destroyer RICHARD P. LEARY (DD-664), by suicide plane,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             Destroyers ALLEN M. SUMNER (DD-691) and WALKE (DD-723),
              by suicide plane, Luzon area, P. I.,
              16 d. 40'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             Destroyer O'BRIEN (DD-725), by suicide plane, Luzon
              area, P. I.,
              16 d. 23'N., 120 d. 14'E.
             Destroyer LOWRY (DD-770), accidentally by United States
              naval  gunfire, Luzon area, P. I.,
              16 d. 40'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             High-speed minesweeper SOUTHARD (DMS-10), by suicide
              plane, Luzon area, P. I.,
              16'11 d. N., 126 d. 16'E.
             High-speed transport BROOKS (APD-10), by suicide plane,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <ljewell@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 06:56:50 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <newst@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Neutrals

     >While we are on the subject of neutrals and occupieds, does anyone
     >have source info on the respective air forces of the smaller nations
     >during the war? I read once about either the Swiss or the Swedes
     >shooting down German aircraft with ME-109s they had purchased from
     >the Germans.  Also I read with interest the "Honved" postings and
     >would welcome further info.

     >Paul Gregor

     >Kent State


        The Swiss were quite active in protecting their airspace.  If an
     intercepted aircraft refused to surrender, they would attempt to shoot
     it down.

        They received BF-109s from Germany both by purchase, and through a
     deal where they destroyed a captured German night fighter (and it's
     secret radar) and released it's crew for more BF-109s.

        The Swedes did not fly the BF-109.

    Steve L. New
    NEWST@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL
    Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 06:33:10 -0600
From:    "Roddy R. Rupert" <rrupert@OZARKS.SGCL.LIB.MO.US>
Subject: Re: Largest AAF Strike

On Mon, 2 Jan 1995, Eric Pass wrote:

> The question was raised about how this might compare in the
> sense of largest number of sorties (daily( of all time).
>
> Perhaps someone could contrast this this with say, the number of
> sorties flown the first night of desert Storm?  This would provide
> a basis for comparison.  Anyone have the numbers handy?
>
> Eric (epass@nyx.cs.du.edu)
>

Page 163 of "Conduct of the Persian Gulf War - Final Report to Congress",
prepared by the Defense Department, shows a graph of the total number of
Coalition aircraft sorties during each day of the war. It is difficult to
precisely read due to the scale of the chart, but here goes:

        Jan. 16 - 2,400 sorties (first day of air war)
        Feb. 25 - 3,200 sorties (highest daily total on the chart)

These numbers should be accurate to within +- 50 sorties.


---------------------------
Rod Rupert
Springfield, MO

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 08:23:14 +0001
From:    Ira H Krakow <ikrakow@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: Re: Smithsonian Contact Needed

John,
>
> Can anybody give a name, E-mail address, phone number, or postal address to
> somebody associated with the Enola Gay exhibit to be opened at the Smithsonian
> Museum.   Any information would be of great help.
>
  Contact Don Gourley at

don@smithson.si.edu

  Don is the Internet administrator for the Smithsonian.  He should be
able to get you in contact with the right people associated with the
Enola Gay exhibit.

Ira Krakow
ikrakow@world.std.com

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 08:25:17 +0001
From:    Ira H Krakow <ikrakow@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: Re: "Martyred Villages"

Sidney,

> Your request for a list of villages destroyed by the Germans would
> require a very thick book, indeed.
>

  Is there such a book?

Ira Krakow
ikrakow@world.std.com

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 09:08:06 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: 3rd Army Chronology - 7Jan45

January 7,1945
D-Day +215

-VII Corps sector fighting was heavier North and West of Bastogne. No change
 along the 101st Airborne front, 17th Airborme advances 2 miles.

-XIX TAC grounded due to poor weather.

-3rd Army policy established regarding Allied nationals who'd collaborated
 or served with the Germans. They were to be treated as POWs.

-Rear echelon of the 3rd Army moves to Esch.

-Civil Affairs Section issues intelligence reports identifying widespread
 looting by German troops in the Ardennes offensive.

*** Source: _Patton's Third Army_ by Charles Province
    Typos are mine. 'Apologies.

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 08:35:32 -0600
From:    Drew Halevy <dhalevy@COMP.UARK.EDU>
Subject: TV series the World at War

I recently bought the book that goes along with the World at War, and I
was not to happy with it as a source on the war. I have now started
reading A World at Arms, and I like it so far. Has anyone else read this
book?-Drew


Drew Philip Halevy      |
Grad Student            | The main thing is to make history,
Department of History   | not to write it.
University of Arkansas  | Otto von Bismark
DHALEVY@COMP.UARK.EDU   |

On Thu, 5 Jan 1995, Sidney Allinson wrote:

> THE WORLD AT WAR is an accurate ducumentary about events during the Seco
> Second World Wa.
> There are no "slants imposed by Sir Laurence Olivier".
> he is merely the voice-over, an actor hired to speak the words written in
> the script.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 09:42:27 -0500
From:    Ron Babuka <wrb1@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: INF: USN Chronology 01-06-95

>UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY

>1945
>01/06 Sat. Aircraft from fast carrier task force (Vice Adm. J. S.
>           McCain) commence 1-day attack on Japanese aircraft and
>           airfield facilities in Luzon area, P. I.

>            United States naval vessels damaged:

>             Destroyers ALLEN M. SUMNER (DD-691) and WALKE (DD-723),
>              by suicide plane, Luzon area, P. I.,
>              16 d. 40'N., 120 d. 10'E.

This morning I called up my father to wish him a happy 70th birthday.
After  some small talk I asked him if he recalled what happened 50 years
ago today, and he said that he remebered this as clear as it was just
yesterday.  My father was a Fire Control technician on the Allen M. Sumner
(DD-692 not 691) and had been in the middle of a running firefight with
suicide planes for over two hours.  These aircraft were attempting to
complete a two fold mission, the first being penetration of the outer
screen of destroyers in hopes of crashing into the carriers of the Task
Force and the second being destroying the screen of picket duty destroyers
themselves.  On this day his battle station was in the main battery
director, having just finished his normal two week rotation on the port
quad 40mm director. He was switching from one aircraft that was in too
close for the main battery 5"-38 guns to engage another Japanese aircraft
several thousand yards out that was attempting destroy his ship.  Even
though the main battery guns were not able to down the aircraft heading
right at his ship, he had to concentrate on the next target and hope that
the inner defense of 40mm and 20mm cannons (and luck) would finish the job.
 In a matter of seconds from switching over to the new target, the main
battery gunnery officer called out over the intercom that they had hit
their target.  My father slewed the main battery director (and the guns)
back over to the port side in hopes of picking up their original target
both visually and via radar when the ship heeled hard over to port.  The
sea arround the ship literally rose out of the water as the original target
began to strafe his ship. The sounds of cannon shells and machine guns
riveting holes in his ship seemed to slow down everything into movie-like
frames.  He had a split second to look up through a viewing hatch in front
of him to see an older model Zero fighter with a bomb attached underneath
fly about 10 feet over his head.  A loud screaching noise followed as the
Zero tore through the first smoke stack and then dove into a torpedo mount
midway of the ship.  My father remebered fondly today that his best friend
was a torpedoman on that mount that never lived to see his next birthday.
The ships entire damage control team was instantly killed by the concussion
of the explosion some 40 feet down ship.  The crew was able to initiate
quick and prompt damage control action and limp back to a naval base for
some patches and temporary repairs.  During the initial repairs, the ships
crew also had discovered that the 500 lb bomb attached underneath the
aircraft had lodged deep in the bowls of the ship and had been kind enough
to remain unexploded.  Had that bomb exploded, the ship surely would have
broken in two.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka
Cornell University
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 08:55:45 -0600
From:    "William L. Huber - SAA" <whuber@SADIS01.KELLY.AF.MIL>
Subject: Re: "Martyred Villages"

> Your request for a list of villages destroyed by the Germans would
> require a very thick book, indeed.
>
> For every well-known incidence -- Lidice, say -- there are a hundred
> now-ignored such sad places.


Sidney has pretty much summed it up perfectly.  Max Hastings in his
book _Das Reich_ relates the feelings of the SS when they first saw
the reports in the Allied press about their Ourador "operation".  The
article showed the outrage of the Western Allies over the slaughter of
French civilians.  The SS were amazed that it got such attention
because it was insignificant in comparison to what the division had
done in Russia.

Cheers, Bill Huber / whuber@sadis01.kelly.af.mil

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:06:31 CET
From:    "COL Donnell, Doug" <4atf@PIRMASENS-EMH1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: NOST: Normandy

Hello to everyone on the list and Happy New Year.  I've been lurking in
the shadows for a while and too busy to make any meaningful contributions
to the list, but, as always, have enjoyed the reading.

I wanted to pass along a few comments regarding a trip I made to Normandy
a few months back.  The French did a marvelous job of sprucing up the
area for the 50th anniversary -- lots of new signs, repaved roads, parking
lots, etc.  Also, the area seems a lot more "tourist friendly" than it was
years ago (my last visit was about 15 years ago) -- by that I mean
availbility of rooms, new museums, exhibits, etc -- the people have always
been friendly.

If anyone is planning a trip, I have quite a bit of info on opening times
of museums, places to see, and so on that I would be glad to share.  Just
e-mail direct.

                                Doug Donnell
                                Ruppertsweiler, Germany

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 15:49:36 CET
From:    "COL Donnell, Doug" <4atf@PIRMASENS-EMH1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Movie "Das Boot"

Das Boot - both original with subtitles and dubbed versions are available
for $19.95 ea from Critics' Choice Video 1-800-367-7765.

                          Doug Donnell
                          Ruppertsweiler, Germany

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 08:01:21 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <paa5137@DPSC.DLA.MIL>
Subject: Fwd: Russian Aircraft Museum

Maybe someone here can help this man?

John Sloan perhaps?

Jim


Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by dpsc.dla.mil (5.61++/1.34)
Reply-To: The Aircraft Discussion List <AIRCRAFT@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender: The Aircraft Discussion List <AIRCRAFT@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
From: NORMAN Brent <bnorman@SHL.COM>
To: Multiple recipients of list AIRCRAFT
              <AIRCRAFT@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

Has anyone out there seen a good book about the Soviet Aircraft Museum at
Monino? I saw one book, but it was in Japanese. The photographs were very
good. Lots of interesting aircraft there, as well as some of the early
prototypes and record setting planes. I would like to scrape up enough money
and plan a trip to there. I am still trying to visit the American Plane
Storage (DM Airbase).

Brent Norman
bnorman@shl.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        jirwin@dpsc.dla.mil
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:40:05 EST
From:    Mike Fetters <NASEM015@SIVM.SI.EDU>
Subject: Smithsonian Contact Needed

Hello John, I'm in the museum's Office of Public Affairs. I should be
able to answer most questions related to the upcoming exhibition "The
Last Act: The Atomic Bomb and the End of World War II." The exhibition
is scheduled to open in late May 1995. Note to everyone on the group: I
come in friendship and in the interest of positive information exchange
and constructive dialogue. I know some of you have expressed strong
feelings about this exhibition over the past months, and that's the
primary reason I've decided to join the group. I hope I can provide
background information that will help each of you make informed
decisions about the upcoming exhibition. I also look forward to
providing you with updates about the exhibition's opening. For instance,
will the museum go to a free, timed pass system for admission (as we did
with the "Star Trek" exhibition)? At the same time, I hope I can provide
information about the other museum services available to you all.
Thanks.....Mike Fetters

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 09:36:48 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <paa5137@DPSC.DLA.MIL>
Subject: MEDIA:MIAs Home at Last

>From the DoD Newswire 6 January 1995


:WWII FLIERS FINALLY BURIED

   ARLINGTON, Va.  -- For 50 years Don Weiss was mostly a
mystery to his only daughter: a smiling pilot in an Army photograph,
one in a long list of names of young American men who never came
home from war.
   On Wednesday, Sue Ann Reisdorph watched as Lt. Col. Don L. Weiss
and three of his crewmen came home.
   Mrs. Reisdorph, who was six months old when her father's B-26
bomber was shot down over France in World War II, held a folded flag
as Army gunners saluted a single casket at Arlington Memorial
Cemetery.
   The casket held the remains of Weiss, copilot Axel "Pete"
Slustrop, bombardier David Meserow and navigator George H. Hazlett
Jr.
   "The best part of it for me was we were able to complete things,
to give closure in such a dignified way," Mrs. Reisdorph said after
the simple burial service under cold, clear skies.
   She traveled from her home in Spring Hill, Fla., for the service,
joining more than 40 relatives of the four fliers. Others traveled
from New York, Maine, Iowa, Massachusetts, Oregon and Illinois.
   "It's another chapter, the last chapter," Mrs. Reisdorph said.
   The crewmen were members of the 386th Bombardier Group based in
England. Weiss, of Denison, Iowa, was 29 when the twin-propeller
plane was shot down on June 22, 1944 over Caen, France. Slustrop, of
Portland, Ore., and Meserow, of Oak Park, Ill., were 22. Hazlett, of
Belmont, Mass., was 24.
   The body of a fifth crewman was found shortly after the crash.
Remains of three others on the plane were never found.
   Several years ago, Mrs. Reisdorph began looking for answers,
eventually travelling to see her father's name inscribed on a
memorial in Normandy, France, and contacting some of his wartime
friends.
   In 1986, bone fragments and bits of ammunition turned up in a
pasture near Caen. Army experts found bits of leather flight
jackets, several shoes, the dial of an altimeter, and a ripped name
tag.
   In November, the Pentagon told family members that Weiss,
Meserow, Hazlett and Slustrop were no longer among the 79,000
Americans missing from World War II.
   "It was quite an amazing phone call," said Meserow's son, David
Sauer.
   Like Mrs. Reisdorph, Sauer was a few months old in 1944 and never
met his father. Sauer's name was changed when his mother remarried.
   "It was important for me, and for my mother," said Sauer, of
Mobile, Ala. "She only had telegrams, not a visit from the Army to
tell her for sure that he was dead. When someone is missing, you
never are certain what happened."
   The crew would be old men now, like many of those who stood in
bright, cold sunshine Wednesday to bury them.
   Warwick Clark smoothed his gray hair in the chill wind and
saluted after six horses drew the caisson toward the hillside
gravesite.
   Earlier, the retired Air Force officer thumbed through
memorabilia of the 386th Bombardier Group during a brief memorial
service. Clark said his bunk was close to Slustrop's at the bomber
group's home base in England.
   "I had loaned him a pair of my pants, and I think he was wearing
them that day," Clark said. "I have always wondered about what
happened to that crew."

========

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        jirwin@dpsc.dla.mil
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 09:21:33 U
From:    Henry Herz <Henry_Herz@CPQM.SAIC.COM>
Subject: Re: Largest AAF Strike

        Reply to:   RE>>Largest AAF Strike

Page 163 of "Conduct of the Persian Gulf War - Final Report to Congress",
prepared by the Defense Department, shows a graph of the total number of
Coalition aircraft sorties during each day of the war. It is difficult to
precisely read due to the scale of the chart, but here goes:

        Jan. 16 - 2,400 sorties (first day of air war)
        Feb. 25 - 3,200 sorties (highest daily total on the chart)

These numbers should be accurate to within +- 50 sorties.
---------
One must be careful with these numbers because sorties can be a misleading
measure of combat power.  Firstly, these probably include sorties by aircraft
of all types (tanker, transport, electronic warfare and other support
aircraft -- I don't know if it includes helos, though).  Secondly, sorties
are sometimes counted strangely.  For example, if a transport aircraft flies
from base A to base B to base C and back to base A, I believe this is counted
as four sorties, not one.  Just a helpful caveat.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 12:27:44 EST
From:    "H. Emery Ford" <eford@DELPHI.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: BOOK: World at Arms (was: TV series the World at War)

On Fri, 06 Jan 95, Drew Halevy wrote:

>I recently bought the book that goes along with the World at War, and I
>was not to happy with it as a source on the war. I have now started
>reading A World at Arms, and I like it so far. Has anyone else read this
>book?-Drew

I really enjoyed this book.  The perpective Weinberg gives on the roles of
the nations outside of the major combatants is very refreshing. The
things I found most enlightening were:

1.  The portrayal of the relationship between Germany and Japan with
respect to the Soviet Union.

2.  The struggle of the British Empire to maintain its colonial empire
in Europe and Asia.

Emery

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 12:55:05 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <MFY@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP:Japanese Planes?

        For Thomas Wildenberg:

        The D4Y was a carrier-based dive bomber.
        The first letter in Japanese naval aircraft designations indicated
type:
        A= carrier-based fighter
        B= carrier-based level/torpedo bomber
        C= carrier-based reconnaisance
        D= carrier-based dive bomber
        E= reconnaisance floatplane
        F= observer floatplane
        G= land-based heavy bomber
        H= flying boat
        K= trainer
        J= land-based fighter
        L= transport
        M= experimental aircraft
        N= floatplane fighter
        P= land-based light bomber
        Q= anti-submarine aircraft

As far as I know these were the only types actually built, although there was
an "R" (land-based reconnaisance) and an "S" (?) designation reserved.  The
second letter in the Japanese designation system indicated manufacturer by
first letter of name (eg, in "D4Y" Y=Yokosuka, in the A6M "Zero" M=Mitsubishi).
The only wierd one in there was that the Kyushu naval arsenal, formerly the
Watanabe factory, retained manufacturer designation "W". (eg, "Q1W").  Note
that letters easily mistaken for western numerals, like "I" and "O", were
omitted from the scheme.  Also note that these type prefixes were sometimes
added to the end of the designation for aircraft modified from original type.
For instance, the floatplane "Zero" became the A6M2-N, the final end indicating
floatplane fighter version (the numbers were of course different models, and
the second number different variants of a particular model).  Also the "Shiden"
fighter developed from the "Kyofu" floatplane fighter got the designation
N1K1-J, since the new variant was a land-based fighter, etc.

Japanese army aircraft all had the prefix "ki" followed by a number, regardless
of type ("ki" being short for "hikoki" or "airplane").

One last trivia bit on the D4Y, although it was a dive-bomber the first two to
see action (at least that I know of, all this is from memory) were employed as
carrier-based reconnaisance aircraft during the battle of Midway (June '42).

Regards

Mike Yaklich


------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 12:26:43 CST
From:    "SCHERRER, TIM" <AD16@NEMOMUS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Movie "Das Boot"

Congrats on your promotion to COL----this is the first I've noted it
being an O-6!  TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:31:09 -0800
From:    Jack Taylor <Jack.Taylor@MPTP.VARIAN.COM>
Subject: Death of Billy SHAFER, 7th Army (USA), 63rd Division

I am new to the WWII-L mailing list and this is my first query.  I hope it is
appropriate.  I am a genealogist and am writing a book on my family
history.  My cousin was supposedly killed at the Battle of Bulge. I am
trying to find out the circumstances under which he was killed.  I have
very little information to go on other than the following:

Name: Billy Curtis SHAFER  Born: 2 August 1925 in Momence, Kankakee
Co., Illinois  Enlisted: 4 Sep 1944  Rank: Private   Attached 7th Army, 63rd
Division  His mother recieved a telegram that he had been Killed In Action
on 12 April 1945.

I have the original telegram and a picture of him in uniform.  Supposedly
he was killed in Germany.  He is buried in the National Cemetery in
Springfield, Illinois.  His mother and father died many years ago and his
sister is not aware of the circumstances of his death.  I am interested in
any information I can get on him or his unit.  It is quite possible that
someone who knew him or was in his unit is still alive.  How would one
go about gathering information on him?  Any comments or suggestions
would be appreciated.

I can be reached by E-mail at:  Jack.Taylor@mptp.Varian.com

or snail-mail: Jack Taylor  10388 Krista Court   Cupertino, California
95014

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:57:52 -0600
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <TWATTS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU>
Subject: Battle of the Bulge

I confess up front that I know little about the Battle of the Bulge, but
I had always thought that the Allies won because improved weather allowed
air support.  But I have noticed in the last two weeks in the USAAF
chronology and the 3rd Army Chronology that the weather really wasn't that
much better.  I guess what I have come to realize is that close-air support
may have helped, but it was still the guys on the ground that went toe-to-
toe with the Germans that won the battle.  Thanks, guys, for clearing up
that myth in my foggy brain.

Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:31:14 U
From:    Henry Herz <Henry_Herz@CPQM.SAIC.COM>
Subject: Re: Smithsonian Contact Need

        Reply to:   RE>Smithsonian Contact Needed

Can anybody give a name, E-mail address, phone number, or postal address to
somebody associated with the Enola Gay exhibit to be opened at the
Smithsonian
Museum.   Any information would be of great help.

Thanks,

John DeVirgilio

John-

The Smithsonian Office of Printing & Photographic Services can be reached at
the following email: psdmx@sivm.si.edu.  They have an FTP server with WW II
aircraft (and other) photos.  Enjoy.

-Henry

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 15:35:28 -0500
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <sep@TVSS2.COMMNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Smithsonian Contact Needed

To Mike Fetters, Smithsonian Museum;

I'm glad you have elected to become a part of the list, and that the
SI is toning down it's PC exhibit.

I had a really tough time deciding to renew my SI and NASM memberships,
and it was contributors like those form this list that tipped the scales,
not all those cutsey articles.

I would really much like to see the SI reclaim it's rightful place as the
authorative source for research and information without political slant.

Please reassure me that there IH hope.

Thanx                                                           Steve

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - sep@trctc.commnet.edu |"Life may be a drag...
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |    But it sure beats the
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |       only known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:59:27 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 07-JAN-1945

On 07-JAN-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the British 2nd Army sector, the 53rd Division captures
Grimbiermont. In the U.S. 1st Army sector, co-ordinated attacks by the 2nd
Armoured and 84th Infantry Divisions toward the Laroche-Salmchateau road
make good progress. Dochamps and Marcouray are captured and only rear
guards remain in the Consy area. The 3rd Armoured Division takes Regne,
Verleumont, Sart and Grant Sart. The 82nd Airborne Division captures
Goronne, Farniers, Mont and Rochelinval. In the 3rd Army sector, the 87th
Division continues its attack on Tillet and is also engaged in the Bonnerue
area. The 17th Airborne Division takes Rechrival, Millomont and Flamierge
and reach the outskirts of Flamizoulle. The 6th Armoured Division remains
under strong pressure in the Neffe-Wardin area east of Bastogne. The 35th
Division makes a limited attack toward the Lutrebois-Lutremange road,
halting just short of it.

In the 7th Army sector, the 45th Division, on the left flank of the Bitche
salient, reaches heights overlooking Althorn and overcomes final resistance
within Wingen. In the Gambsheim bridghead area, efforts of the 79th
Division to clear Drusenheim are unsuccessful. The 3rd Algerian Division
takes over the attack toward Gamsheim from Kilstett.

Eastern Front - In Hungary, the Germans continue efforts to relieve the
Budapest garrison, which is being methodically destroyed and capture
Esztergon, northwest of the city.

Philippines - Underwater demolition teams begin the search for underwater
obstacles in Lingayen Gulf as the preinvasion aerial and naval bombardment
of Luzon continues. On Mindoro, Japanese planes are for the first time
consipicuously absent from the San Jose area.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 23:29:19 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@EVS2.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: WEAP:Japanese Planes?

On Fri, 6 Jan 1995, Mike Yaklich wrote:

> As far as I know these were the only types actually built, although there was
> an "R" (land-based reconnaisance) and an "S" (?) designation reserved.

There was a Yokosuka R2Y Keiun land-based reconaissance aircraft, but it
flew only once before it was destroyed. The S was for nightfighters;
there was an Aichi S1A, and it was also often used as suffix (J1N1-S,
D4Y2-S). Not in your list is "P" for bombers, as in Yokosuka P1Y Ginga.

> Japanese army aircraft all had the prefix "ki" followed by a number, regardless
> of type ("ki" being short for "hikoki" or "airplane").

I thought "Ki" was for "Kitai", airframe. But I'am not very educated in
Japanese :-).

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 23:38:21 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@EVS2.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: WEAP:Japanese Planes?

Some more detail on the Yokosuka D4Y 'Suisei':

  The Yokusaka team studied the imported Heinkel He 118 dive-bomber
  prototype before developing the D4Y. Japan had bought a license for the
  production of this aicraft, but that was abandoned after the prototype
  was lost. Yokosuka developed an streamlined, fast dive bomber inspired
  by the He 118. It was first flown in November 1940. The wing of the
  D4Y was somewhere between the mid-wing and low-wing position, to make
  room for an internal bomb-bay. Performance was high, but in dives the
  D4Y suffered from wing flutter.

  The first production version was the  D4Y1-C reconaissance aircraft.
  Two were embarked on Soryu when this carrier was sunk in the battle
  of Midway. Production of the D4Y1 dive bomber began in March 1943.
  About 170 (140 D4Y1s and 30 D4Y1-Cs) participated in the Battle of
  the Phillippine Sea; almost all were lost. The D4Y1 and D4Y2 lacked
  protection for the crew and engine; the Atsuta engine, a copy of
  the Daimler-Benz DB601, was unreliable. There was also a night-fighter
  version, the D4Y2-S. A few dozen were  built, with angled 20mm cannon.

  The D4Y3 was powered by a more powerful, less vulnerable and more
  reliable Mitsubishi Kinsei 62 radial. This version operated almost only
  from land bases. 556 were built. The D4Y4 was a suicide attack version of
  the D4Y3, carrying 800kg of explosives; about 300 were built. On 15
  August 1945, a D4Y4 flew the last suicide mission of the war. The
  armoured D4Y45 version was under development when the war ended.
  Total production was 2038.

  A D4Y2 is now in a museum next the Yasukuni temple in Tokyo. This is the
  only complete surviving example.

Type        D4Y1          D4Y2          D4Y3          D4Y4
            ----------------------------------------------------
Role        dive-bomber   dive-bomber   dive-bomber   suicide
Crew        2             2             2             1
Engine      Aichi         Aichi         Mitsubishi    Mitsubishi
            Atsuta 21     Atsuta 32     Kinsei 62     Kinsei 62
            1200hp        1400hp        1560hp        1560hp

Wing Span   11.49m        11.49m        11.50m        11.50m
Length      10.22m        10.22m        10.22m        10.22m
Height       3.67m         3.74m         3.74m         3.74m
Wing Area   23.6m2        23.6m2        23.6m2        23.6m2
Empty W.    2565kg        2565kg        2501kg
Normal W.   3650kg        3835kg        3754kg
Max. W.     4361kg        4353kg        4657kg        4733kg
Max. Speed  298kn         313kn         310kn
     at:    4750m         5250m         6050m
Cruise Sp.  230kn         230kn         180kn
     at:    3000m         2000m         3000m
Climb       600m/min      820m/min      820m/min      820m/min
Ceiling     9900m         10700m        10500m
Range:
  Normal     850nm         790nm          890nm
  Max.:     2100nm        1945nm         1560nm
Bomb load:
  Normal    310kg         310kg         310kg         800kg
  Max       560kg         560kg         560kg
Guns:
  All versions had two forward-firing 7.7mm on the engine cowling.
  Flexible rear-firing 7.92mm or 13mm gun. Angled fixed 20mm
  gun in nightfighter version.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 17:54:12 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <hhs@EVEREST.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Martyred Villages"

Dear Ira,

One section of the walls of the Holocaust Museum in Washington are
inscribed with the names of Jewish communities annihilated by the
Nazis, so there is some sort of list, somewhere; probably at Yad
Vashem. I've never seen a book. as such, but you might try the
YIVO Research Institute in NYC. Give them time, though- they are
moving and may not yet be unpacked.

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 17:42:26 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Battle of the Bulge

"Tim J. Watts" <TWATTS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU> said:
>
>I had always thought that the Allies won because improved weather allowed
>air support...

Hi Tim, there were the highest casualty figures I've yet seen for the
western front during the Ardennes offensive. That speaks to me of glutony
on the part of the General staff playing it consevatively, throwing their
weight into it. (aspersions aside) The price was paid in infantry lives.
The discussions concerning defense in that sector were settled by accessing
a delaying action back to the Meuse, at a bargained cost.

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 17:58:51 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Promo 'Das Bird'

>From:         "SCHERRER, TIM" <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@BROWNVM.brown.edu>
>
>Congrats on your promotion to COL----this is the first I've noted it
>being an O-6!  TAS

Doug's destined for the "stars". -Al  " God speed."

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 18:02:28 EST
From:    Bill Lippert <WL1958A@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Martyred Villages"

On Fri, 6 Jan 1995 17:54:12 EST Henry Sirotin said:
>Dear Ira,
>
>One section of the walls of the Holocaust Museum in Washington are
>inscribed with the names of Jewish communities annihilated by the
>Nazis, so there is some sort of list, somewhere; probably at Yad
>Vashem. I've never seen a book. as such, but you might try the
>YIVO Research Institute in NYC. Give them time, though- they are
>moving and may not yet be unpacked.
>
>Henry Sirotin

   I more or less remember the wall that those communities were written
on.  First, weren't there a lot of names on there - over a hundred?
And second, did it refer to the elimination of the Jewish community in
those towns (i.e. the Jews were liquidated but everyone else remained)
or the complete annihilation of those communities (buildings and all).
If the former is the case, I would not place them in the same category
as Lidice or other such towns destroyed for reprisals.  This is not
to detract or emphasize one from the other, only that they are different
insofar as the motives to destroy them were very different.

William Lippert
The American University

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 18:06:25 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Re: INF: 50 Years Ago - 07-JAN-1945

>Philippines - Underwater demolition teams begin the search for underwater
>obstacles in Lingayen Gulf as the preinvasion aerial and naval bombardment
>of Luzon continues.

What types of personal equipment were there for detection? What other types
were used? That stretch of ocean looks small on a map, but... -Al

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 19:45:27 EST
From:    "H. Emery Ford" <eford@DELPHI.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: WWW page announcement

On Fri, 06 Jan 95, Emmanual Gustin wrote:

>Announcement for these who didn't get the earlier one:
>
>There is a WWW page up at
>
>         http://www.vestnett.no/vulcan/index.html
>
>devoted to military history. At the moment most files at this
>site are related to military aviation: lists of "all" military
>aircraft, a list of acronyms and codenames, a description of
>designation systems, a very incomplete overview of aircraft
>markings, and other items.

I just checked out this page and it looks promising.  However, not being
as famililiar as I should be about WWII aviation, I can't seem to find
the P-38 (the Lightning, right?) under US aircraft.  Is that possibly
one of the things still being worked on?

Emery

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Jan 1995 02:45:13 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@EVS2.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: WWW page announcement

On Fri, 6 Jan 1995, H. Emery Ford wrote:

> I just checked out this page and it looks promising.  However, not being
> as famililiar as I should be about WWII aviation, I can't seem to find
> the P-38 (the Lightning, right?) under US aircraft.  Is that possibly
> one of the things still being worked on?

You're right about the P-38, thanks for checking. I used a program to
convert the ASCII original to HTML for the WWW page, but it failed at P-38
because the indentation in the original is wrong. You can find the P-38
entry included with the one for the Hughes P-37. I'll correct it...

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 17:30:59 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Movie "Das Boot"

The same producer/director who brought us DAS BOOT recently released his
epic, STALINGRAD.

I watched it on a videotape last night. Marvellous show.

Sidney Allinson.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 21:00:56 EST
From:    "Larry W. Jewell" <ljewell@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: DOC: "The Invasion of Japan", some thoughts.

I've just finished John Ray Skates' "The Invasion of Japan: Alternative
to the Bomb."

Short Answer: If you want to read about the planning for OLYMPIC and
CORONET (the planned invasions of Kyushsu and the Kanto plain) then this
book is a good overview, or at least a starting place for further research.
Skates' conclusions, however, are sometimes so weak as to be invisible.

Long Answer: Skates' has done a lot of work on this book, almost enough
to make it worth reading.  A great deal of detail regarding who was to
do what and with what is to be found here.  Of interest to some will be
the description of the point-system devised to muster-out the troops with
the most combat time (and men with children had a *huge* advantage in
the point totals).

What irritated me was Skates' almost sublime ability to take a set of
facts, look closely at half and ignore the other half.  For example, two
sets of casualty figures are examined (I use the term loosely), one being
Truman's post-war statements that using the bomb saved one-half million
to one million U.S. lives.  The other figure is MacArthur's estimation
of casualties based on the invasions of Iwo Jima and Okinawa (32,500-50,000).
Without a fully functional crystal ball I will venture no total of my
own, but I will suggest that those who do want to hazard a guess should
look at the Ketsu-Go plan to defend the home islands of Japan.  Skates
tell us that the invasion beaches on Kyushu were consistently to a terrain
to favor the defender and OLYMPIC would have made Okinawa look like the
Allies were trying to capture Sydney.

Another serious void in a balanced view of the invasion is a look at
the range of casualities to be expected by the defenders.  I suspect that
this is due to the fact that >90% of the defenders would have died.


Bottom line: For me, I'm glad I didn't *pay* for this book. (It was a
gift.) However, it does have some good pointers to other research material.
(I was disturbed but one thing, however, which I may have to elaborate on
after more reseach.)

Larry J

LJEWELL@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU; Co-Mod.: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 18:16:19 -0800
From:    Steve Schoenherr <ses@TEETOT.ACUSD.EDU>
Subject: ARC: History at USD

The Department of History at the University of San Diego now has a Web Home Page
up and running with a variety of information, syllabi, bibliographies,
samples of
multimedia projects on local history.  The URL is:
http://192.215.84.38/History/HISTHOME.htm

One of the multimedia projects is on the Ryan FR-1 Fireball jet fighter
produced for the Navy in 1945. You will see at this Web site a 1946
description, photo and drawing of this plane.  Graduate student A.J. Lutz
has been researching this aircraft and is collecting all possible
information, including archival photos, film, technical information, and
personal histories for a multimedia master's thesis. Anyone with
suggestions for sources should contact his faculty advisor, Dr. Steven
Schoenherr <ses@acusd.edu>. A.J. will be happy to share the results of his
research with those who provide any assistance.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 23:06:42 -0500
From:    Thomas Pike <MilArchive@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: INF- 2 quick questions

For #2: Archival Reserach International (202) 338-4249

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 5 Jan 1995 to 6 Jan 1995
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 12 messages totalling 699 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. IJN Carrier Bomber Trivia
  2. INF: USN Chronology 01-07-95
  3. [INF] USAAF 7 JAN 45
  4. [INF] 8 JAN 45
  5. [INF] USAAF 9 JAN 45
  6. INF: 50 Years Ago - 08-JAN-1945
  7. Russian Aircraft Museum
  8. Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot") (4)
  9. WEAP: IJN Carrier Bomber Trivia

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Jan 1995 22:29:38 -1000
From:    John DeVirgilio <devirgil@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: IJN Carrier Bomber Trivia

Suisei Trivia:


As many as 22 armed Suisei dive bombers could be carried on the Japanese
hybrid battleship-carriers.  Each of two catapults on these hybrid-BB's
could launch one Suisei every two minutes.


The Special Attack (Kamikaze) version of the Suisei designated as the D4Y3
carried a No.80 800kg bomb partly enclosed (semi-recess) into the bomb bay.

-------

For the continued discussion and sharing... I vote the IJN "Grace"
bomber as the BEST single engined bomber design in the world.  Any thoughts
on this design, history, or trivia for this aircraft?


Aloha,

John DeVirgilio

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Jan 1995 04:00:21 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 01-07-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
01/07 Sun. Battleship, cruiser, and destroyer force (Vice Adm. J. B.
           Oldendorf) and aircraft from escort carrier group (Rear
           Adm. C. T. Durgin) open 2-day bombardment and bombing of
           beach area in Lingayen Gulf, Luzon, P. I.
            United States naval vessel sunk:
             High-speed minesweeper PALMER (DMS-5), by horizontal
              bomber, Luzon area, P. I.,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
            United States naval vessels damaged:
             Attack transport CALLAWAY (APA-35), by suicide plane,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              17 d. 00'N., 120 d. 00'E.
             LST 912, by suicide plane, Luzon area, P. I.,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <ljewell@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Jan 1995 08:53:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 7 JAN 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SUNDAY, 7 JANUARY 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  Mosquito, deHavilland
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): 5 B-24s bomb Ft Bayard, China and
attack shipping in Samah Bay on Hainan Island, claiming 1 vessel sunk.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): Bad weather cancels all combat
missions. Transports complete 383 sorties to forward areas.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
  Mission 785: 1,073 bombers and 700 fighters attack communications
centers, rail targets, bridges and an oil storage depot in W Germany using
PFF methods; 3 bombers and 1 fighter are lost.
  1. 265 B-17s are dispatched but hit secondary targets, the marshalling
yard at Hamm (109), Paderborn (74) and Bielefeld (74); 2 hit a target of
opportunity; all attacks made using H2X radar; 5 B-17s are damaged.
Escorting are 197 of 204 P-51s; 1 P-51 is lost (pilot MIA).
  2. 351 B-17s are dispatched to hit communications centers at Blankenheim
(39), Kall (39), Bitburg (110) and Euskirchen (75); 35 hit the Lutzel
Bridge at Cologne; all attacks made using Gee-H and H2X; 3 B-17s are damaged;
2 airmen are WIA. Escort is provided by 159 of 160 P-51s.
  3. 147 B-17s are dispatched to hit the bridge at Hohenzollern (14) and
the highway bridge at Rodenkirchen (22); 80 hit the secondary target, the
Kalk marshalling yard at Cologne; targets of opportunity are Limburg (11),
Koblenz (11) and other (1); all attacks are made using Micro H and H2X; 2
B-17s are lost and 10 damaged; 1 airman is KIA and 19 MIA. The escort is 91
of 95 P-51s.
  4. 304 B-24s are dispatched to hit the marshalling yards at Landau (54),
Zweibrucken (64) and Rastatt (99), the rail and communications center at
Achern (31) and the railway at Kaiserslautern (26); all attacks made using
Gee-H; targets of opportunity hit visually are Durrmenz (8) and Karlsuhe
(1); 1 B-24 is lost and 10 damaged; 1 airman is WIA and 9 MIA. Escorting
are 94 of 102 P-51s.
  5. 6 of 6 B-17s fly a screening mission.
  6. 88 P-47s and P-51s fly a fighter sweep without loss.
  7. 12 of 12 P-51s escort 2 F-5s and 2 Mosquitoes on photo reconnaissance
missions over Germany.
  8. 33 of 33 P-51s fly a scouting mission.
  Mission 786: 2 B-17s and 5 B-24s drop leaflets during the night in SE
Belgium and France.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): XXIX Tactical Air Command
(Provisional) fighters escort VIII Bomber Command bombers. All other commands
and the 9th Bombardment Division cancel operations as the weather is bad.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Unfavorable weather again
curtails operations. 3 P-38s complete photo and weather reconnaissance
missions.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, weather grounds the
medium bombers and A-20s; XXII Tactical Air Command fighters and fighter-
bombers make 6 cuts on the Brenner rail line, damage the W end of the rail
bridge at Cittadella, and hit the marshalling yard S of Trento; most of the
XXII Tactical Air Command's effort is concentrated against land and water
communications in the La Spezia-Genoa area, including attacks on shipping at
Savona and San Remo harbors.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 11 B-24s, flying out of Saipan Island, bomb an
airfield on Iwo Jima Island. During the night of 7/8 Jan, 10 more B-24s again
pound airfields, striking in single-bomber snooper missions over a 7-hour
period.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: In major strikes of
the day against targets on Luzon Island, Philippine Islands, large numbers of
B-25s and A-20s, supported by P-38s, hit the network of airstrips from Clark
Field to Angeles Airfield, B-24s bomb Nielson and Grace Park Airfields and
Nichols Field and B-25s and fighter-bombers pound bridges in the Plaridel and
Calumpit areas. B-24s raid Padada and Daliao Airfields on Mindanao Island.
B-25s and fighter-bombers hit Lembeh Strait and the Langoan areas on Celebes
Island. Other FEAF aircraft on small-scale armed reconnaissance missions
strike targets of opportunity throughout the Philippine Islands. The 17th
Reconnaissance Squadron (Bombardment), 71st Tactical Reconnaissance Group,
moves from Tacloban, Leyte Island to San Jose, Mindoro Island with B-25s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

07/1354Z JAN

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Jan 1995 09:04:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] 8 JAN 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
MONDAY, 8 JANUARY 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-26, Douglas Invader
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): In Burma, 8 P-51s hit targets of
opportunity E of Muse and E of Wanling.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 21 B-25s hit troops and
supply areas at Nampeng and Mong Long; 74 P-47s and P-38s attack troop
concentrations and supply areas at Tunhunghkam, Monguy, Hpa-hpun, and Man Om;
and 12 P-47s knock out a bypass bridge at Namhkai. Transports complete 470+
sorties to forward bases and frontline areas. The 317th Troop Carrier
Squadron (Commando), 2d Air Commando Group, based at Kalaikunda, India, sends
a detachment to operate from Dinjan, India with C-47s.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
  Mission 787: 736 bombers and 269 fighters are dispatched to make PFF
attacks on communications centers, rail targets and bridges in Germany; 2
bombers are lost.
  1. 151 B-17s are sent to hit the Wissembourg communications center (36) and
highway and rail bridge at Alzey (36); 65 hit a secondary target, the
marshalling yard at Speyer; 4 hit a target of opportunity; all attacks are
made using Gee-H and H2X; 2 B-17s are damaged beyond repair.
  2. 117 B-17s are dispatched to hit communications centers at Kyllburg
(37), Schweich (24) and Speicher (37); 12 hit a secondary target, the
marshalling yard at Koblenz; all attacks use Gee-H and H2X; 1 B-17 is lost, 1
damaged beyond repair and 24 damaged; 1 airman is KIA, 7 WIA and 9 MIA.
  3. 24 of 30 B-24s hit the Stadtkyll communications center and 2 hit a
target of opportunity using Gee-H without loss.
  4. 204 B-24s are sent to hit communications centers at Wittlich (14),
Oudler (29), Clerf (18), Burghreuland (31) and Dasburg (30); 2 others hit a
target of opportunity; all use Gee-H; 2 B-24s are damaged beyond repair; 1
airman is WIA.
  5. 225 B-17s are sent to hit communications centers at Waxweiller (33) and
Lunebach (29); 131 hit the secondary, the marshalling yard at Frankfurt; 1
hits a target of opportunity; attackers use Micro H and H2X; 1 B-17 is lost,
1 damaged beyond repair and 47 damaged.
  6. 219 of 229 P-51s fly a freelance escort mission of all the bombers above
without loss.
  7. 9 of 9 B-17s fly a screening mission.
  8. 29 of 32 P-51 fly a scouting mission.
  9. 8 of 8 P-51s escort 2 Mosquitoes on photo reconnaissance missions over
Germany.
  Mission 788: 1 B-17s and 2 of 4 B-24s drop leaflets over St Hubert,
Belgium.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): Weather prevents operations. The
153d Liaison Squadron, IX Tactical Air Command (attached to Twelfth Army
Group), moves from Tongres to Rutten, Belgium with L-5s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Austria, 300+ B-17s and
B-24s bomb the main station yard and N main marshalling yard at Linz plus
marshalling yards at Graz, Villach, Klagenfurt, and Salzburg, escorted by
200+ P-38s and P-51s; 30+ other P-38s fly reconnaissance and reconnaissance
escort. HQ 1st Fighter Group moves from Salsola Airfield to Vincenzo
Airfield, Italy.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, XXII Tactical Air
Command A-20s fly 33 effective sorties in the Po Valley during the night of
7/8 Jan; bad weather sharply reduces daytime operations; of 3 medium bomber
missions dispatched, only 1 reaches the target (the Chivasso railway bridge)
where only 6 medium bombers bomb through the overcast; less than 20 XXII
Tactical Air Command fighters hit scattered targets in the Po Valley; HQ 51st
Troop Carrier Wing moves from Lido di Roma to Siena; and HQ 62d Troop Carrier
Group moves from Malignano Airfield to Tarquinia. The 437th Bombardment
Squadron (Medium), 319th Bombardment Group (Medium), begins a movement from
Serragia, Corsica to the US (the squadron will convert to A-26s and transfer
to the Pacific in Jul 45).

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 26 Guam Island-based B-24s bomb airfields on
Iwo Jima Island, while, during the night of 8/9 Jan, 10 more B-24s subject
the island to individual snooper strikes over a 6-hour period.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: In the main strikes
during the day on Luzon Island, Philippine Islands, P-51s and P-40s strafe
airfields in the Lingayen Gulf area; A-20s pound railroad yards at
Cabanatuan, motor convoys between Cabanatuan and Bongalion and between
Bongabon and Mojon, Rosales and San Quintin rail installations, bridges at
Cuyapo, Paniqui, and near Santa Rosa; P-47s hit rail yards and a truck convoy
in the San Jose area; and B-24s and A-20s attack Nichols Field and Nielson,
Lipa, and Calingatan Airfields. B-25s with P-47 cover, bomb Fabrica Airfield
on Negros Island, while B-24s bomb Likanan Airfield and oil storage at Matina
on Mindanano Island. P-38s attack Manggar and Sepinggang Airfields in Borneo.
Numerous small-scale attacks over the Philippine Islands and Netherlands East
Indies continue.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

07/1405Z JAN

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Jan 1995 09:14:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 9 JAN 45

TUESDAY, 9 JANUARY 1945

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): For the first time the Eleventh radar-bombs
with H2X equipment as 4 B-24s hit Suribachi Bay Airfield on Paramushiru
Island, Kurile Islands.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): 6 B-25s hit railroad targets, road
bridge, and building area NE of Thanh Moi, French Indochina. 25 P-40s, P-38s,
and P-51s hit targets of opportunity S, SW, and NE of Wanling, Burma. 8 P-51s
bomb railroad repair shops at Sinsiang, China while 3 P-40s hit a road W of
Muse, Burma, causing a traffic block.

  EASTERN AIR COMMAND (EAC): Colonel Minton W Kaye assumes command of the
Photographic Reconnaissance Force, a component of the EAC.

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force): Mission 26: 46 B-29s from Chengtu, China are
dispatched to bomb the harbor at Kirun, Formosa; 39 hit the target and 6 bomb
targets of last resort along the China coast; this raid is the first of
several such operations against Formosa in conjunction with the US invasion
of Luzon Island, Philippine Islands

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 8 P-47s hit division HQ at
Ho-na while 4 others support ground forces in the Si-U sector; 90+ fighter-
bombers hit supply areas, tanks, AA positions, and troop concentrations at
Man Kat, Tonghsim, Kong-lin, Bawdwin, Mong Tat, and in the Hsenwi vicinity.
488 transport sorties are flown to forward areas.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In Germany, 15 B-26s bomb the
Rinnthal rail bridge with the aim of isolating 3 enemy armored divisions in
the Landau area; XXIX Tactical Air Command (Provisional) fighters escort the
B-26s. Weather prevents other operations.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Bad weather permits only
reconnaissance missions. In Italy, the 94th Fighter Squadron, 1st Fighter
Group, based at Salsola Airfield, sends a detachment to operate from Vincenzo
Airfield with P-38s.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, medium bombers attack
bridges at Palazzuolo sull'Oglio, Pontetidone, Romano di Lombardia, and an
assembly area at Crespellano; fighters and fighter-bombers in an excellent
day against communications in the W and C Po Valley and other points in N
Italy make numerous rail cuts, destroy or damage many vehicles and trains and
effectively hit ammunition and fuel dumps, guns, and strongpoints along the
US Fifth Army front in the N Apennines; the 4th and 8th Troop Carrier
Squadrons, 62d Troop Carrier Group, move from Malignano Airfield to Tarquinia
with C-47s; the 18th and 35th Troop Carrier Squadrons, 64th Troop Carrier
Group, move from Ciampino to Rosignano Airfield with C-47s. The 438th, 439th
and 440th Bombardment Squadrons (Medium), 319th Bombardment Group (Medium),
begin a movement from Serragio, Corsica to the US (they will convert to A-26s
and move to Okinawa in Jul 45).

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 24 B-24s, based on Saipan Island, hit an
airfield on Iwo Jima Island which is struck again by 8 B-24s on individual
snooper missions during the night of 9/10 Jan.

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force): Mission 18: 72 Mariana Island-based B-29s are
dispatched against the Musashino aircraft plant near Tokyo; high winds break
up the formations so that only 18 B-29s can bomb the primary target; 34 hit
alternates and targets of opportunity; they claim 13-3-11 Japanese aircraft;
6 B-29s are lost.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: Amphibious forces
of the US Sixth Army begin landing on the shores of Lingayen Gulf, Luzon
Island, Philippine Islands at 0930 hours local; in N Luzon, B-24s bomb
Mabalacat while B-25s, A-20s, and fighter-bombers destroy several bridges and
numerous vehicles and trains throughout Luzon, and bomb several airfields;
B-24s also hit Nielson airfield and Nichols Field. FEAF aircraft make small-
scale attacks on barges, airfields, and targets of opportunity on Mindanao
Island, Halmahera Island, the Ceram Island area, N Borneo, and on Timor
Island.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

07/1415Z JAN

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Jan 1995 11:07:58 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 08-JAN-1945

On 08-JAN-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the U.S. 1st Army sector, the 84th Division pursues the
Germans to Marcourt and Cielle. The 2nd Armoured DIvision drives on Samree.
The 3rd Armoured Division captures Hebronval, Ottre, Joubieval and
Provedroux. The 82nd Airborne Division consolidates its position along the
line Grant Sart-Salmchateau-Trois Ponts and clears Comte. In the 3rd Army
sector, the Germans drive the 87th Division from Bonnerue. Some 17th
Airborne Division elements gain and then lose high ground north of Laval
and others are forced out of Flamierge. The 6th Armoured Division recovers
lost ground in the Neffe-Wardin sector. In the 7th Army sector, the Germans
enter Rimling. The 45th Division makes slight progress against the west
flank of the salient. The 79th Division withstands pressure near Aschbach
and moves reinforcements to the Soultz-Rittershoffen area. The Germans stop
efforts to reduce the Gambsheim bridgehead.

Philippines - The preinvasion aerial and naval bombardment of the Lingayen
Gulf area continues. Mine sweeping is completed.

The Homefront
-------------
U.S. Warned of Bombing - Adm. Jonas Ingram, new chief of the U.S. Atlantic
Fleet, says that the robot bombing of New York or Washington within 30 to
60 days in not only "possible but probable." He adds that "we're ready for
them." He says bombs might be launched from submarines, long-range planes
or surface ships.

Sam Snead Wins - Sam Snead has won the 19th annual Los Angeles Open golf
tournament with a 72-hole score of 283, one stroke better than Byron Nelson
and Harold McSpaden. Sneed gets $2,666.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:21:17 -0500
From:    John Sloan <JohnS426@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Russian Aircraft Museum

About the Russian aviation museum at Monino.  I have a couple copies of the
Russian language guide book from the museum. If provides only a general
overview and has a few pictures in B&W. It is 76 pages long.
I also have a couple dozen color photos I took myself in 92. I have supplied
these to list members in the past for the reprint costs. There were several
others on the trip with me who took many more photos (USAF types who knew
what they were seeing) as this ground pounder did not. Also several took
video that might be available to the interested, but I naturally can't
promise.
We are planning several WWII and general military tours for summer 95 and inte
nd to include Monino as well as the armor museum at Kubinka and the uniform
museum also near Monino plus much more.
anyone interested in this let me know.
best wishes

john sloan

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Jan 1995 21:56:51 -0500
From:    David Rising <drising@ACS.BU.EDU>
Subject: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")

On Fri, 6 Jan 1995, Sidney Allinson wrote:

> The same producer/director who brought us DAS BOOT recently released his
> epic, STALINGRAD.
>
> I watched it on a videotape last night. Marvellous show.

Hey Sidney, we finally agree on something! :-) Just kidding. Actually,
I'm thrilled to hear that Stalingrad is finally out on tape--if you
recall, I brought it up about a year ago when it was in the theatres, and
nobody had heard of it, but all seemed to want to see it. If you have the
video store info (i.e. big chain like Blockbuster carrying it?) or the
production info (i.e. who do I write to get a copy) I'd love to hear it.

Speaking of Stalingrad, while I was up in Toronto visiting my fiancee
over x-mas, I stopped in to the local military-antique store (with V-1
replica mounted on roof)_ to take a gander at what they had acquired
since I last had been there. Along with a panzerfaust and panzerschreck,
they had a pair of the overboots (seemingly unused) which were used on
the Eastern front. Wooden soles (with thin rubber tacked to the bottom)
and felt uppers. Still had the name of the schuh-fabrik in Berlin on the
label inside. Unfortunately I didn't have the $150 (albeit Canadian
dollars) to spend on them.

Also while I was in the store, I was browsing over a shelf of
armbands-insignia, when I over heard an older gentleman asking the owner
"how many pistols did Patton carry?" I started to edge closer to hear the
answer. The owner replied, "Two, I suppose." Then older gentleman then
began a story:
"Well," he said, "that's how he's always portrayed in the movies, but he
only wears one. When I was captured by the Germans during the war, I was
put in Stalig 7A [if I heard correctly] with a bunch of other Canadian
prisoners of war. As the American armies neared the camp, they evacuated
all of the other Canadians, but left me because... [sorry, missed that
bit].
When the Yanks liberated the camp, I found myself walking out about
this far [about two feet] from Patton. I wanted to touch his gun, but
since he had just slapped that soldier in Italy I figured he may punch me
thinking I was going to take it and shoot a guard or something. Anyway,
he was only wearing one gun.
Over the years, in all the movies I've seen, they had him wearing two
guns and I began to think that perhaps I was not remembering correctly.
Then, I saw the Norman Schwartzkopf special on tv where they were showing
clips of many different famous generals, and they showed Patton climbing
off a tank, wearing only one gun."

Well, that's about it for my x-mas war story. It is, of course,
paraphrased. Hope everyone had a good holiday, and I look forward to
another great year of WWII discussion. Cheers,
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Jan 1995 22:33:40 EST
From:    "Carl Wernke - TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET" <TCWERNC@VCCSCENT.BITNET>
Subject: WEAP: IJN Carrier Bomber Trivia

 On Fri, 6 Jan 1995 22:29:38 -1000 John DeVirgilio wrote:
 >As many as 22 armed Suisei dive bombers could be carried on the Japanese
 >hybrid battleship-carriers. Each of the two catapults on these hybrid-BBs
 >could launch one Suisei every two minutes.

 These two battleship-carriers were the ISE and HYUGA. The ISE was completed
 on 15 December 1917, and sunk on 28 JUly 1945 by aircraft of US Task Force 38,
 five miles NW of Kure. HYUGA was completed on 30 April 1918 and sunk by
 US carrier aircraft of TF38 at Kure on 24 July 1945, two miles from where
 ISE was sunk.

 Yokosuka D4Y Suisei (Comet) was one of the most aesthetically pleasing
 single-engine bombers to serve with any of the fighting powers during the
 second World War, and it brought the design of this category of aircraft to
 an aerodynamic level comparable to that of the Havilland Mosquito in the
 twin-engined category. However, the Mosquito was of wooden construction,
 the Yokosuka Suisei was all-metal construction, but apart from their
 achievements both types had many points in common. Both were originally
 designed as bombers but were first operated in the reconnaissance role and
 each saw service in the night fighter role. In spite of its superb
 performance, however, the Suisei had a considerably shorter operational
 history than the Mosquito as the Japanese surrender ended its career.

 As the Kinsei engine was more reliable than the Atsuta, the Navy authorized
 Aichi to produce the aircraft as the Suisei Carrier Bomber Model 33 (D4Y3)
 and Model 33a (D4Y3a), this last variant being armed with a flexible 13mm
 Type 2 machine-gun.

 Designed in late 1944, the D4Y4 was a specialized suicide bomber. As no radio
 operator/gunner was required for kamikaze attacks, the D4Y4 was designed
 as a single-seat version of the Kinsei powered D4Y3 carrying a single 800 kg
 (1,764 lb) bomb semi-recessed beneath the fuselage. Fitted with three
 RATOG auxiliary rockets which could be used either to shorten take-off from
 small airstrips to boost the speed during the final dive, 296 of these
 aircraft were built in 1945 as the Suisei Special Attack Bomber Model 43.


 I agree John, the IJN "Grace" bomber was just about "the BEST single
 engined bomber design in the world." The B7A was to have been a multi-purpose,
 carrier_based attack plane. It also came too late and too few were produced
 to threaten the Allied offensive in the Pacific. "Grace" had a maximum
 speed of 337 m.p.h., had two forward-firing 20-mm. cannon, a flexible 13-mm.
 machine gun in the rear cockpit, and could carry 1764 pounds of bombs or a
 torpedo in an internal bomb bay. It was flown by a  two-man crew.

 The B7A Grace --- named RYUSEI ("Shooting Star") by the Japanese -- was a
 two-seat aircraft capable of level bombing, dive bombing, and torpedo
 attack. The first aircraft of this design flew in May 1942 and production
 models began reaching squadrons late in 1944. With a wing span of 47 feet,
 3 inches, this was the largest carrier-based aircraft produced by the
 Japanese (the A7M) had a span of 45 feet, 11 inches and was 36 feet long).
 One hundred seventeen Grace attack aircraft were built before the war ended.


 Source: _Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War_, 1979 and _Carrier Aviation
         and Its Influence on World Events_, 1969.


 I am looking forward to more information regarding IJN ships, aircraft,
 tactics, and operations.

 John, thanks again for the info on Long Lance; it was very interesting and
 informative.
               Shinnen omedetoo ===>  "Happy New Year"

 Carl Wernke

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:44:13 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")

David...
        Sometimes, Patton wore one pistol.
        Sometimes, Patton wore two pistols.

Regards, Sidney.

PS: Maybe that depended how many of his own troops were around.  :-)


--

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:48:13 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")

Next week, I'll go back to the video store and copy the name of the
video distributors for you.
I remember the intro screen showed "Distributed by Canadian Famous Players".
But, there'sno doubt a US distributor mentioned as well on the box.

See you...


--

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:51:15 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")

David...
        That military/Nazi regalia store you mention...
        Intriguing. I do not remember such a store there "with a V-1 on
        the roof".  Must be new, as I have not been back to Toronto for two year        s. What is the name, street location of the store  ?

Sidney.


--

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 6 Jan 1995 to 7 Jan 1995
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 14 messages totalling 780 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. INF: USN Chronology 01-08-95
  2. IJN Oxygen Torpedo Update
  3. INF: 50 Years Ago - 09-JAN-1945
  4. 50TH: WAR ENTERS A NEW YEAR
  5. German Ocean Liners?? (2)
  6. Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")
  7. GERMAN OCEAN LINERS?? (3)
  8. Neutrals
  9. Operation Deadlight u-boats
 10. U-boats at sea on May 4
 11. U-boat Collisions with other u-boats

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 8 Jan 1995 04:00:17 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 01-08-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
01/08 Mon.  United States naval vessels damaged:
             Escort carrier KITKUN BAY (CVE-71), by suicide plane,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              15 d. 48'N., 119 d. 09'E.
             Escort carrier KADASHAN BAY (CVE-76), by suicide plane,
              Luzon area, P. I.,
              15 d. 10'N., 119 d. 08'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <ljewell@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Jan 1995 23:39:45 -1000
From:    John DeVirgilio <devirgil@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: IJN Oxygen Torpedo Update

Revision & update on previous informational post.

IJN Salt Water Engine Torpedo Types:

The Type 93 24" Long Lance Torpedo was fueled by pure oxygen or enriched
air (minimum 93% oxygen) mixed with kerosene and salt water.

The Type 95  21" submarine torpedo was a smaller version of the type 93.

The Type 96  21" submarine torpedo used enriched air (38% oxygen)

The Type 97   17.7" was a further miniaturization of the larger Type 93 & 95
torpedoes.   The type 97 was not a safe weapon with the possiblitiy
of an explosion at the start of the engine upon firing.  Due to this
unsatisfactory performance, production was halted after 100 torpedoes
were completed.   This torpedo equiped the five midget submarines that
were used against Pearl Harbor.

The Type 98 (also known as the Type 97 Special) 17.7" torpedo used
enriched air (38% oxygen).  The reduced oxygen content gave this
torpedo a safe start.


Trivia note: Pure oxygen torpedoes produced less visible wake tracks (small
bubble signature) making it difficult for defenders to spot an incoming
attack.


------
Good English source:  Campbell, John. Naval Weapons of World War Two.
London: Conway Maritime Press, 1985.  Also check the U.S. Naval
Techinical Mission to Japan, 1946.



Aloha,

John DeVirgilio

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 8 Jan 1995 04:21:54 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 09-JAN-1945

On 09-JAN-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The U.S. 1st and 3rd Armies continue to advance in the
central-northern sector of the front, with the aim of eliminating the
salient taken by the Germans in the Ardennes offensive. In the 3rd Army
sector, the 87th and 101st Airborne Divisions make good progress towards
Tillet and Noville. The III Corps is attacking the German pocket southeast
of Bastogne.

Philippines - The U.S. 6th Army, composed of about 67,000 men, begins
landing on the shores of Lingayen Gulf on Luzon. The island is defended by
about 262,000 Japanese. Two corps land abreast, the XIV Corps on the right
and I Corps on the left. The XIV Corps composed of the 40th and 37th
Divisions pushes inland to an average depth of 4 miles and is virtually
unopposed. The I Corps, which is more strongly opposed, is less successful.
Its beachhead at the end of the day is narrower and shallower than the XIV
Corps. The 6th Division gains a line from Dagupan to the Pantalan River.
The 43rd Division attacks to the vicinity of San Jacinto and Binday. The
Japanese send up the few remaining aircraft they have against the invasion
fleet, damaging the battleship Mississippi and the light cruiser Columbia.
For the first time the Japanese makes use of explosive boats piloted by the
equivalent of the kamikaze pilots. The battleship Colorado is accidentally
hit by fire from other U.S. ships.

Pacific - In support of the Luzon operation, carrier planes from TF 38
attack airfields and shipping in the Formosa, Pescadores and Ryukyus areas
despite bad weather conditions. The 7th Air Force continues raids on Iwo
Jima.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 8 Jan 1995 09:58:31 +0100
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <John.Ausland@GMAIL.GAR.NO>
Subject: 50TH: WAR ENTERS A NEW YEAR

  Oslo, January 8, 1995

  After an absence over the holidays, in order to finish a book
containing my father's writings about his adventures in WWI and II and
to buy a new computer, I have rejoined the list.  Since I note that
there are some new users, perhaps it will be useful to reintroduce
myself.
  I am a retired American Foreign Service officer, living now here in
Norway.  Last year, I published (myself) a book about my exeriences
during World War II, when I was with the 4th Infantry Division, under
the title LETTERS HOME: A WAR MEMOIR.  It covers our preparations in
England for Overlord and then from our landing on June 6 on Utah Beach
to the end of the war in Europe, which found us south of Munich.
  I regret to (am happy to) say that the book is now out of print.
However, I have put it on disk and some of these days (who knows
when?) it will be available on the World Wide Web.
  From time to time, I have been making available here selections from
the book and propose to continue this now, with excerpts from Chapter
14, which opens in a new year:

          * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
          *                                                         *
          *            THE WAR MOVES INTO A NEW YEAR                *
          *                                                         *
          * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

          The arrival of the new year found me still in Luxembourg.
          Although we continued to follow the terrible fighting to the
          north of us, there was nothing we could do but wait for
          orders. Command changes made as a result of the German
          offensive left us in Patton's Third Army, a new experience.
          Well aware of his reputation for driving his troops hard, we
          wondered when he would call upon us. While waiting, I
          found time to exchange views with my parents about the
          German offensive. From their letters and the press, it was
          clear that this had come as a rude shock to the American
          public. After our successes during the summer, it had
          decided the war in Europe was all but over.

          As the clock passed midnight, I wrote a short letter home.

          Dear Folks, 00:15 January 1, 1945, Luxembourg

          The New Year is here. Let me send to all of you wishes for
          the best possible happiness during the coming year.

          Love, John

          In mid-morning, I was driving along a road when I saw an
          infantry unit conducting an exercise. As a part of simulating
          an attack on the town of Wecker, which was well behind our
          lines, it was shooting up flares. Suddenly a group of
          American aircraft began to bomb and strafe the town.
          Fortunately, the bombs fell short of the houses, and there
          were not many casualties.

          If there was any doubt that the war had not ended, Hitler
          soon erased it. He chose January 1 to launch Northwind to
          the south of us, an offensive less well known than the one
          in the Ardennes. Unfortunately, the French forces had failed
          to eliminate a pocket of Germans in the Colmar area, south
          of Strasbourg. These coordinated an attack with one by
          German forces north of Strasbourg. At one point,
          Eisenhower seriously considered abandoning that city. This
          invited another threat from de Gaulle to withdraw French
          forces from Eisenhower's command. It proved possible,
          however, to defeat the German attack without precipitating
          a crisis in French-American relations.

          We were at the time unaware of these political maneuvers.
          Since the fighting did not affect me directly, I was more
          concerned with my father's efforts to adjust to civilian life.
          Then approaching fifty, his years in China (as adviser to the
          Chinese on railway construction), Alaska (where he
          commanded a railroad), and North Africa (where he selected
          railway targets for the Air Force) had been too much for
          him. After a lengthy hospitalization at Valley Forge, the
          doctors decided that his health would not permit him to
          continue in the army, and he was retired.

          Dear Dad, January 2, 1945, Luxembourg

          Your letters of December 12 and 14 have arrived. I noted
          especially your change of jobs to make a climb up the
          ladder of the railroad business with some pride. Certainly
          you would be foolish to fail to capitalize on your World War
          II experience.

          Your negotiations with the firms interest me no end. By all
          means, do keep me informed on developments. You know,
          I'm promoting your return to China like wildfire. Besides,
          this gives me a continuous thread on which to tie myself
          when things don't go well here.

          Boston, Richmond, New York. Well do I remember that trip
          with you when I was a child. The Woolworth Building, the
          subway, the Holland Tunnel, many exciting moments for a
          small boy.

          From the clipping I sent mother, you will see that our unit,
          after a difficult fight in Hurtgen, took the left wing of the
          offensive and held it. But that's the sort of thing that's duck
          soup for our men. They love to get a Jerry coming across an
          open field, with them in the hole, for once. We worked them
          over quite well.

          Many of us feel that had we been at the center of the
          German drive, they'd probably have gone through us as they
          did the others, but we'd surely have given them a tussle,
          believe you me. But, as it was, we had to be content with
          catching only the poor buzzards who were making the
          containing attack on the flank.

          General Patton has said this was our best action. If he
          thought that, he ought to have seen us on a couple of our
          others.

          Incidentally, I was interested in learning of your job as rail
          bombing officer in the Mediterranean. I had not known of
          this before.

          Your son, John
          END OF EXCERPT

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 8 Jan 1995 08:46:58 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: German Ocean Liners??

Does anyone know if any German ocean liners were "seized" at the outbreak of
the war? If so, were they turned into Allied troops ships? On the other hand
did the Germans use any of the liners for war purposes? Where was the Bremen
at the start of the war? I know at the beginning of WW I several liners were
captured and turned into Allied ships.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 8 Jan 1995 09:28:00 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <RIEGSECKER@UPS.EDU>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners??

>Does anyone know if any German ocean liners were "seized" at the outbreak of
>the war? If so, were they turned into Allied troops ships? On the other hand
>did the Germans use any of the liners for war purposes? Where was the Bremen
>at the start of the war? I know at the beginning of WW I several liners were
>captured and turned into Allied ships.

There was the Normandie of course, although that was French.  In my copy
of _Jane's Fighting Ships of WWII_ I find that the US transport Lejeune was
the ex German Windhuk and many of the German ships are ex- something so that
might be a place to start looking if nobody has a ready list.

John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

riegsecker@ups.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 8 Jan 1995 13:30:25 -0500
From:    David Rising <drising@ACS.BU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")

On Sat, 7 Jan 1995, Sidney Allinson wrote:

> David...
>         Sometimes, Patton wore one pistol.
>         Sometimes, Patton wore two pistols.
>
I kind of figured that was the case... Still liked the story though. Cheers,
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 8 Jan 1995 15:44:53 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <ben.frank@HIS.COM>
Subject: GERMAN OCEAN LINERS??

John, if memory serves, the liner 'Manhattan" was a German liner seized by the
US and renamed "Wakefield." I had a couple of trips on her in WWII. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 8 Jan 1995 14:41:11 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Neutrals

Paul Gregor...

        There's an interesting book on neautral Eire (Ireland) during
the Second World War:
                        THE SHAMROCK AND THE SWASTIKA.

        It was neautral Switzerland that was so agressive about defending
its air-apace during WW2. Swiss aircraft attacked Luftwaffe planes on
two occasions. Score was Swiss 6, Germans 0. Swiss also demanded resparations
for the incidents. Germans swallowed their annoyance over being defeated,
apologized officially, and gave the Swiss several Messerschmidts. 'Story has
it most of the planes given proved to be defective, though.

        There was a good account of the Swiss/German air combats in
AFTER THE BATTLE magazine some years ago.

Regards -- Sidney.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 8 Jan 1995 17:44:16 -0500
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <sep@TVSS1.COMMNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: GERMAN OCEAN LINERS??

It is my understanding that the US Coast Guard Tall Ship "EAGLE" was once
german, as well as the tall training ship "Joseph Conrad" (Remaned) now on
display at Mystic Seaport.

Does anobody second this third hand info?

I sort of beleive the "Georg Stag" (I know I spelled it wrong) became the
Conrad, but I don't know definatly about the Eagle...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - sep@trctc.commnet.edu |"Life may be a drag...
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |    But it sure beats the
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |       only known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                SteveiznL

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 00:09:31 +0000
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <gummihe@ISMENNT.IS>
Subject: Operation Deadlight u-boats

                                Operation Deadlight

    Operation Deadlight is the code name for the scuttling of the unneeded
    German u-boats which the allied got their hands on after the end of WWII.
    Most of these operations took place from Ireland (Lisahilly etc).


Boat          type           Date of scuttling if known (by me)

U.143         IID
U.145         IID
U.149         IID
U.150         IID
U.155         IXC
U.170         IXC/40
U.218         VIID
U.244         VIIC
U.245         VIIC
U.249         VIIC
U.255         VIIC
U.256         VIIC
U.278         VIIC
U.281         VIIC
U.291         VIIC
U.293         VIIC/41
U.294         VIIC/41
U.298         VIIC/41
U.299         VIIC/41
U.312         VIIC
U.313         VIIC
U.318         VIIC/41
U.328         VIIC/41
U.363         VIIC
U.368         VIIC
U.369         VIIC
U.427         VIIC
U.481         VIIC
U.483         VIIC
U.485         VIIC
U.516         IXC
U.532         IXC/40
U.539         IXC/40
U.541         IXC/40
U.668         VIIC
U.680         VIIC
U.716         VIIC
U.720         VIIC
U.739         VIIC
U.760         VIIC
U.764         VIIC
U.773         VIIC
U.775         VIIC
U.776         VIIC
U.778         VIIC
U.779         VIIC
U.802         IXC/40
U.806         IXC/40
U.825         VIIC
U.826         VIIC
U.861         IXD2
U.874         IX D2
U.875         IX D2
U.883         IXD/42
U.868         IXC/40
U.901         VIIC
U.907         VIIC
U.928         VIIC
U.930         VIIC/40
U.956         VIIC
U.968         VIIC
U.978         VIIC
U.985         VIIC
U.991         VIIC
U.992         VIIC
U.994         VIIC
U.997         VIIC/41
U.1002        VIIC/41
U.1004        VIIC/41
U.1005        VIIC/41
U.1009        VIIC/41
U.1010        VIIC/41
U.1019        VIIC/41
U.1022        VIIC/41
U.1052        VIIC/41
U.1061        VIIF
U.1102        VIIC
U.1103        VIIC/41
U.1104        VIIC/41
U.1109        VIIC/41        Sunk on Jan 6. 1946 by UK sub HMS Templar
U.1110        VIIC/41
U.1163        VIIC/41
U.1165        VIIC/41
U.1194        VIIC
U.1197        VIIC
U.1198        VIIC
U.1201        VIIC
U.1203        VIIC
U.1271        VIIC/41
U.1272        VIIC/41
U.1275        VIIC/41
U.1301        VIIC/41
U.1307        VIIC/41
U.1230        IXC/40
U.1233        IXC/40


                         The Elekro boats


U.2321        XXIII
U.2322        XXIII
U.2324        XXIII
U.2325        XXIII
U.2328        XXIII
U.2329        XXIII
U.2334        XXIII
U.2335        XXIII
U.2336        XXIII
U.2337        XXIII
U.2341        XXIII
U.2345        XXIII
U.2348        XXIII
U.2350        XXIII
U.2351        XXIII
U.2353        XXIII
U.2354        XXIII
U.2356        XXIII
U.2361        XXIII
U.2363        XXIII          Nov 1945

U.2502        XXI
U.2506        XXI
U.2511        XXI            Jan  7. 1946
U.3514        XXI            Feb 12. 1946 at 1004. The last one to be sunk.

    95 conventional boats
    24 Elektro boats (4 XXI)

   119 total


     Out of the 154 German U-boats surrendered at the end of the war, about
     119 were sunk near Ireland in 1945-1946 in Operation Deadlight. The other
     35 or so were used to varius tasks and then sunk thereafter (like U.1105
     sunk on explosives trial in the Potomac in 1948).

     U.995 still exists as a museam boat north of Kiel Germany.

     U.2540 was raised from it's resting place near Flensburg and is also a
     museum boat, now named U-Wilhelm Bauer.

 ******************************************************************************
    This is a compiled list using the available sources I have at the moment.
    I will get better info soon and thus either correct any errors here may
    lie withing or confirm the data.

    Also, I may have made some typos here and there, should you find any
    or have some corrections to make please e-mail me at:
                       gummihe@ismennt.is

    I hope this list (and the others) will be of some interest to the list.
 ******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 00:10:43 +0000
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <gummihe@ISMENNT.IS>
Subject: U-boats at sea on May 4

                    German U-boats at sea on May 4 1945

     43 u-boats were at sea when cease-fire orders came from Doenitz on
     May 4 1945, they were. [DL] means Operation Deadlight boat.

U-boat      Left port:            Came to port at:

U.190       Norway   Feb 22       Halifax, Canada on May 12.
U.218  [DL] Norway   Mar 23       Bergen, Norway in May
U.234       Norway   Apr 17       Portsmouth, USA on May 16.
U.244  [DL] Norway   Apr 15       Loch Eriboll, UK on May 14.
U.245  [DL] Helig    Apr  9       Bergen, Norway on May 10.
U.249  [DL] Norway   Apr  4       Portland, England on May 10.
U.255  [DL] France   May  1       Loch Eriboll, UK on May 15.
U.287       Norway   Apr 29       Hit a mine on the Elbe on May 16.
U.293  [DL]          Apr  1       Loch Alsh, UK on May 12.
U.328  [DL] Germany  Apr 25       England (date unknown to me)
U.485  [DL] France   Apr 26       Gibraltar on May 12.
U.516  [DL] Norway   Apr  6       Loch Eriboll, UK on May 14.
U.530       Norway   Mar  4       Argentina on July 10.
U.532  [DL] Jakarta  Jan 1        Loch Eriboll, UK on May 13.
U.541  [DL] Norway   Apr 11       Gibraltar on May 12.
U.764  [DL] Norway   May  1       Loch Eriboll, UK on May 14.
U.776  [DL] Norway   Mar 24       Portland, England on May 16.
U.802  [DL] Germany  Apr  9       Loch Eriboll, UK on May 11.
U.805       Germany  Mar  4       St. Johns, Canada on May 14.
U.825  [DL] Norway   Apr  3       Portland, England on May 10.
U.826  [DL] Norway   Mar 11       Loch Eriboll, UK on May 10.
U.858       Norway   Mar 14       Delaware, USA on May 14.
U.873       Norway   Apr  1       Portsmouth, USA on May 17.
U.889       Norway   Apr  6       Halifax, Canada on May 14.
U.901  [DL] Norway   Apr  5       Stavanger, Norway on May 16.
U.956  [DL] Norway   Mar 31       Loch Eriboll, UK on May 13.
U.963       Norway   Apr 23       Ran aground, scuttled neat Portugal on May 21.
U.977       Germany  Apr 14       Argentina in August 1945
U.979       Norway   Mar 29       Ran aground at Amrum on May 25.
U.1009 [DL] Norway   Apr  1       Loch Eriboll, UK on May 10.
U.1010 [DL] Norway   Apr 15       Loch Eriboll, UK on May 14.
U.1023 [DL] Norway   Mar  7       Portland, England on May 12.
U.1057      Norway   Apr 26       Bergen, Norway on May 10.
U.1058      Norway   Apr 28       Loch Eriboll, UK on May 10.
U.1105      Norway   Apr 13       Loch Eriboll, UK on May 10.
U.1109 [DL] Norway   Apr 18       Loch Eriboll, UK on May 13.
U.1165 [DL] Norway   Apr 29       Narvik, Norway on May (16?)
U.1228      Germany  Apr 14       Portsmouth, USA on May 16.
U.1231      Norway   Apr 27       Loch Eriboll, UK on May 13.
U.1277      Germany  Apr 15       scuttled by her crew near Portugal in May
U.1305      Norway   Apr  5       Loch Eriboll, UK on May 10.
U.2326      Norway   May  3       Dundee, Scotland on May 19.
U.2336 [DL] Norway   May  1       Kiel, Germany on May 14.
U.2511 [DL] Norway   Apr 30       Bergen, Norway on May 6
U.3008      Germany  May  3       Kiel, Germany on May 25


     Out of these 43 boats, 23 sailed to England, 3 to Canada, 4 to USA,
     4 did not return to port (scuttled etc), 7 returned to Germany or Norway
     and 2 went all the way to Argentina.

     The allied captured 154 boats at the end of the war, 39 out of them were
     returned from sea and 115 were in their bases.

     The Germans scuttled 218 u-boats near the end of the way to prevent them
     from falling into allied hands.

     The Third Reich thus had 376 u-boats available at the end of the war.




******************************************************************************
    This is a compiled list using the available sources I have at the moment.
    I will get better info soon and thus either correct any errors here may
    lie withing or confirm the data.

    Also, I may have made some typos here and there, should you find any
    or have some corrections to make please e-mail me at:
                       gummihe@ismennt.is

    I hope this list (and the others) will be of some interest to the list.
******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 00:11:47 +0000
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <gummihe@ISMENNT.IS>
Subject: U-boat Collisions with other u-boats

        German U-boats sunk after collisions with other German u-boats

        date.       Collided with:      Killed    Survivors.    Location.

U.254    8. Dec 1942    U.221             41            3    North Atlantic
U.222    2. Sep 1944    U.626             42           (2)   Baltic
U.612    8. Aug 1942    U.444              2          (42)   Baltic
U.649   24. Feb 1943    U.232             35           (9)   Baltic
U.659    4. May 1943    U.439             44           (6)   North Atlantic
U.673   24. Oct 1944    U.382              0          (52)   North of Stavanger
U.718   18. Nov 1943    U.476             43           (8)   Baltic
U.983    8. Sep 1943    U.988              5          (47)   North of Leba
U.1013  17. Mar 1944    U.286             25          (27)   Baltic
U.1015  19. May 1944    U.1014            36          (12)   West of Pillau

U.2344  18. Feb 1945    U.2336             7           (8)   North of Heiligenamm
U.2367   5. May 1945    U. ?               0          (15)   near Schliemunde

                                  ----          ----
   12 boats                                280          231*   (54% killed)*


   * I use the average number of complement compiled from my own list of 404
     German u-boats sunk with all hands as the base figure of each class. I
     divided the WWII into 11 sections and calculated the average complement
     for each section (i.e. VIIC in Jan-Jun '43 was 49.4 men). These numbers
     should be fairly accurate but may be a bit off.



******************************************************************************
    This is a compiled list using the available sources I have at the moment.
    I will get better info soon and thus either correct any errors here may
    lie withing or confirm the data.

    Also, I may have made some typos here and there, should you find any
    or have some corrections to make please e-mail me at:
                       gummihe@ismennt.is

    I hope this list (and the others) will be of some interest to the list.
******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 02:51:00 UTC
From:    "Edward S. Miller" <e.miller4@GENIE.GEIS.COM>
Subject: Re: GERMAN OCEAN LINERS??

  It appears that German merchantmen in the Atlantic made a run for home but
not many got through.  Those in the Pacific holed up in the Dutch East
Indies:

-- 25 August 1939.  In the morning first warning telegram from Nordeich
Radio to German merchant shipping overseas.
 -- 27 August 1939.  All German merchant ships overseas are asked to do
 everything to reach their home ports "within the next four days" or to make
 for ports of friendly or neutral states.
 -- 31 August to September 7 1939.  British Home Fleet (6 battleships and
 battle cruisers, carrier Ark Royal, etc.) searches waters between Scotland,
 Iceland and Norway for returning German merchant ships, in particular, for
 the fast Atlantic liner Bremen.
 -- 1 September 0445 hours.  Start of German attack on Poland.
 -- 3 September.  Great Britain and France declare war on Germany.
 -- 3 September.  South Atlantic.  British cruiser Ajax stops the German
 freighters Olinda (4576 tons) and Carl Fritzen (6594 tons) between Rio
 Grande do Sul and the estuary of the River Plate.  They avoid capture by
 scuttling themselves.
 -- 3 to 6 September.  Home Fleet cruises west of the Hebrides and searches
 for the Bremen (51731 tons), the flagship of the German Merchant Navy, on
 her way back from New York.  But she has already arrived at North Base near
 Murmansk.
 -- 3 to 28 September.  British northern patrols stop 108 merchant ships, of
 which 28 ordered to Kirkwall for inspection.  [No info if any German ships.]
 -- 28 September.  French submarine Poncelet captures the steamer Chemnitz
 (5522 tons).  [Seems to mean near the Azores.]
 -- 22 Sept. to 3 November.  French submarines keep watch on German merchant
 ships in north Spanish ports.
 -- 9 October.  British cruiser Belfast of the Northern Patrol captures the
 German passenger steamer Cap Norte (13615 tons).
 -- 12 to 26 October.  Light and auxiliary cruisers of the Northern Patrol
 stop the German merchant ships Bianca (1375 tons), Biskaya (6386 tons),
 Gloria (5986 tons), Gonzenheim (4574 tons), Poseidon (5864 tons) and
 Rheingold (5055 tons).  The latter three ships avoid capture by scuttling
 themselves.
 -- 16 October.  The German freighter Halle (5889 tons) is encountered by the
 French cruiser Duguay-Trouin west of Dakar and scuttles herself.
 -- 23 October.  The German tanker Emmy Friedrich (4372 tons) coming from
 Tampico, Mexico, is reported in the Yucatan Channel by British cruisers.
 She scuttles herself on being stopped.
 -- 5 December.  British cruiser Depatch captures the German freighter
 Dusseldorf (4930 tons) in Chilean waters off Punta Caldera.
 -- 9 December 1939 to 5 January 1940.  The German tanker Nordmeer sails from
 Curacao and reaches Vigo, Spain, in spite of being pursued by the French
 submarine Ouessant.
 -- 19 December.  The passenger ship Columbus (32581 tons) and freighter
 Arauca (4354 tons),left Vera Cruz 14 December in an attempt to get home.
 The Columbus was constantly shadowed by U.S. warships of the Neutrality
 Patrol, who gave her position in plain language through Florida Channel and
 off Capte Hatteras.  This led two British destroyers to intercept the ship
 which was forced to scuttle.  U.S. naval aircraft report the Arauca off
 Miami, the British cruiser Orion arrives, but the Arauca avoids capture and
 puts into Port Everglades.
 -- 7 January to 6 February 1940.  The German freighter Consul Horn (8384
 tons) gets through the Anglo-French watch at Aruba unnoticed, escapes from
the French submarine Agosta, and deceives U.S. naval reconnaissance aircraft
 and the British cruiser Enterprise as she is disguised as a Soviet
 freighter.  She reaches Norwegian waters.
 -- February to 3 March 1940.  Home Fleet operates against six German
 merchant ships which have broken out of Vigo.  On 11 February the French
 sloop Elan captures the Rostock (2542 tons) and on 12 February the British
 destroyer Hasty seizes the Morea (4709 tons).  The Wahehe (4709 tons) is
 captured on Feb. 21 by a British cruiser and destroyer.  The Orizaba (4354
 tons), after successfully breaking the blockade, is lost of Skjervoy,
 northern Norway, where she goes aground.  The Wangoni evades the British
 submarine Triton off Kristiansand on 28 Feb. and reaches Kiel.  The last
 ship, the Arucas (3359 tons) has to scuttle herself on 3 March when
 approached by the British cruiser York east of Iceland.
 -- 11 to 13 February 1940.  The German freighter Wakama (3771 tons), coming
 from Rio de Janeiro, is stopped by the British cruiser Dorsetshire in the
 area of Cabo Frio and scuttles herself.
 -- 1 to 2 March 1940.  The German freighers Troja (2390 tons) and Heidelberg
 (6530 tons) try to reach home from Aruba.  The Troja is encountered on 1
 March by the cruiser Despatch dear Aruba and the Heidelberg on 2 March by
 the British cruiser Dunedin off the Windward Passage.  Both freighters
 scuttle themselves.
 -- 5 March to 8 April 1940.  On 5-6 March the German freighters Hannover,
Mimmi Horn and Seattle leave Curacao.  The Hannover is encountered in the
Mona Passage on the night of 7-8 March by the Canadia destroyer Assinboine.
She is prevented from scuttling herself inside Dominican waters by a
boarding party from the British cruiser Dunedin.  During the hunt for the
Hannover, in which the French cruiser Jeanne d'Arc also takes part, the two
other ships are able to break out into the Caribbean.  But the Mimmi Horn
has to scuttle herself in the Denmark Strait on 28 March when approached by
the British armed merchant cruiser Transylvania.  The Seattle becomes
incolved in the beginnings of the Norwegian operation off Kristiansand on 8-
9 April and is lost.
 -- 23 March 1940.  Formation of the British Malaya Froce to keep watch on
German merchant ships in Dutch East Indies harbors.  There are 5 German
ships at Sabang, 5 at Padang, 3 at Batavia, 3 at Surabaya, 1 at Tjilatjap.

THERE MAY BE MORE BUT I STOPPED HERE.  AVOBE DOES NOT INCLUDE ACTIONS OF
BLOCKADE RUNNERS THAT APPEARED TO SAIL FROM GERMANY AFTER START OF WAR.

Source: J. Rohwer and G. Hummelchen, =Chronology of the War At Sea=, V. 1
 (New York, 1972)

Edward Miller     Stamford, Conn.   e.miller4@genie.geis.com

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 7 Jan 1995 to 8 Jan 1995
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 46 messages totalling 1763 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Soviet Aircraft
  2. INF: USN Chronology 01-09-95 (2)
  3. INF: 50 Years Ago - 10-JAN-1945
  4. Smithsonian Contact Needed
  5. Inf: 3rd Army Chronology - 8Jan45
  6. WEAP: US Heavy Bomber Comparison (2)
  7. Medals
  8. Inf: 3rd Army Chronology - 9Jan45
  9. WEAP:  US Heavy Bomber Comparison (5)
 10. Inf: 3rd Army Chronology - 10Jan45
 11. WW II Mysteries
 12. BATTLE OF THE BULG (2)
 13. PVT Shafer
 14. Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")
 15. German Ocean Liners??
 16. <No subject given>
 17. TRIVIA: Schindler's List (2)
 18. HIST: Trivia (2)
 19. France's Forgotten Past / Dracy (2)
 20. Re[2]: PVT Shafer, 63rd Division (2)
 21. USCGC Eagle / Horst Wessal
 22. Alternatives to the A-bombs
 23. HIST: Trivia/militaria
 24. Invasion of Kyushu / Operation OLYMPIC
 25. Trivia: Nazi escapees
 26. USCG Eagle
 27. Soviet slang
 28. WEAP:Japanese Planes? (2)
 29. "Martyred Villages"
 30. Re[2]: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")
 31. TRIVIA: Decks
 32. Nazi Escapees
 33. Russian Aircraft Museum
 34. [INF] USAAF 10 JAN 45

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 01:25:09 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <newst@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Soviet Aircraft

    The best english language reference that I've seen on Russian (Soviet)
    display aircraft is the Squadron/Signal publication "Red Ladies in
    Waiting", soft cover, list $9.95.

    Squadron's catalog descibes it as:

    "The former Soviet Union had a number of facilities to store and
    display aircraft, including complexes at Khodinka, Ramenskoye and
    Tushino.  Also includes coverage of facilities in Hungary and the
    former East Germany.  Over 150 photos, 8 pages in color, 64 pages."

    Aircraft covered run from WWII through today.  Photos cover aircraft on
    display and awaiting preservation.

    These can be found in model hobby shops and bookstores, or ordered
    direct from Squadron (#9-SS6065):

          Squadron Mail Order
          1115 Crowley Drive
          Carrollton, TX  75011-5010

    Steve New
    NEWST@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL
    Just an Armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 04:00:16 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 01-09-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
01/09 Tue. Army forces land in Lingayen Gulf area, P. I., under cover
           of naval gunfire and carrier-based aircraft. Gen. Douglas
           MacArthur is in overall command of the operation. Vice
           Adm. T. C. Kinkaid commands the naval forces, and Lt. Gen.
           W. Krueger is the ground force commander. In support of
           the landings, aircraft fast carrier task force (Vice Adm.
           J. S. McCain) bomb Japanese airfields and shipping in the
           Formosa, Ryukyus, and Pescadores Islands areas.
            United States naval vessels damaged:
             Battleship MISSISSIPPI (BB-41), by suicide plane,
              Philippine Islands area,
              16 d. 08'N., 120 d. 18'E.
             Battleship COLORADO (BB-45), accidentally by United
              States naval gunfire, Philippine Islands area,
              16 d. 08'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             Light cruiser COLUMBIA (CL-56), by suicide plane,
              Philippine Islands area,
              16 d. 08'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             Destroyer escort HODGES (DE-231), by suicide plane,
              Philippine Islands area,
              16 d. 22'N., 120 d. 12'E.
             Transport WARHAWK (AP-168), by suicide boat, Philippine
              Islands area,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             Oiler GUADALUPE (A0-32), by collision, Philippine
              Islands area,
              20 d. 06'N., 121 d. 34'E.
             LST 925 and LST 1028, by depth charges, Philippine
              Islands area,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
            Japanese naval vessels sunk, Formosa area:
             Submarine chaser NO. 61, by carrier-based aircraft,
              22 d. 40'N, 120 d. 04'E.
             Submarine chaser NO. 90, by carrier-based aircraft,
              22 d. 40'N., 120 d. 00'E.
             Coast defense vessel NO. 3, by carrier-based aircraft,
              27 d. 10'N., 121 d. 45'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <ljewell@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 04:20:41 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 10-JAN-1945

On 10-JAN-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the British 2nd Army sector, the 51st Division reaches
Laroche. In the U.S. 1st Army sector, most of the Laroche-Salmchateau road
has been cleared by VII Corps. The 2nd Armoured Division captures Samree.
The 83rd Division takes Bihain. Units of the 82nd Airborne Division secure
the bridgehead across the Salm River near Gran Halleux. In the 3rd Army
sector, the 87th Division captures Tillet. The 101st Airborne Division
renews its attack toward Noville clearing a portion of Bois Jackques. Units
of the 35th Division capture Villers-la-Bonne-Eau. In the 7th Army sector,
units of the 45th Division enter Althorn, on the left flank of the Bitche
salient.

Philippines - On Luzon, the Americans continue to land in the Lingayen
Gulf. The beachhead is now considerably expanded. Units of the 40th
Division take Labrodor while other units push towards Aguilar, reaching the
Umanday area. Units of the 37th Division speed inland to San Carlos. In the
I Corps area, the 6th Division drives south and southeast to Mapandan and
the vicinity of Santa Barbara. The 43rd Division takes San Jacinto without
opposition and pushes on toward Manoag.

Burma - Units of the Chinese 38th Division crosses the Shweli.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 08:19:04 EST
From:    Mike Fetters <NASEM015@SIVM.SI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Smithsonian Contact Needed

I can tell you that the Smithsonian is very interested in trying to
figure out what went wrong with the exhibition. Last week, the Christian
Science Monitor reported (accurately) that the new SI Secretary, Michael
Heyman, will initiate an extensive review of our exhibitions process and
this exhibition in particular. I think that our greatest errors were not
in the scholarship (though I'm not saying that was perfect, either), but
in the process. The SI went to the Air Force Association, the American
Legion, the VFW, DAV and other military/veterans organizations because
we wanted their input. Perhaps we went too late, or perhaps we
underestimated the depth of the concerns voiced by those groups, but we
wanted to hear their concerns. It goes way back (1990) to when we
re-opened the Sea-Air Operations Gallery, when the Association of Naval
Aviators provided significant assistance in the development of that
gallery (they are even listed at the entrance with other sponsors). We
had hoped to repeat that kind of relationship, but (obviously) it didn't
work out. I'm sure there will be no shortage of post-mortems on this
exhibition and process (historians, media, internal reviews, etc.), and
I'm looking forward to the results because I definitely think that the
Smithsonian can learn from this recent experience and do a better job of
serving the public in the future. I can tell you that I do not believe
there was EVER an intent to dishonor American servicemen or servicwomen.
I've got a little brother in the Navy and, personally, would not be part
of such an effort. I think that when this exhibition opens in May,
people will agree that we did a good job with an incredibly complex and
sensitive subject. We'll get bad reviews, but I bet we get an even
greater number of positive reviews.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 08:23:07 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Inf: 3rd Army Chronology - 8Jan45

January 8, 1945
D-Day +216

-Another day of overcast skies prohibited air activity.

-Patton issues reorganization as follows:

        94th Inf Div to XX Corps,
        90th Inf Div to III Corps,
        4th Armored Div to VIII Corps,

 This coincided with preparations to attack at 1000 hours on the 9th.

********

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 08:54:00 EST
From:    "Eliot K. Friedman" <ekfriedm@AEC1.APGEA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: WEAP: US Heavy Bomber Comparison

    I've been wondering about the comparative capabilies of the B-17 and
    B-24 bombers.  Both were successful designs, produced in large numbers
    during WW II, and according to a book I've been thumbing through
    (forget the title), had nearly identical range, speed, and bomb load
    characteristics.

    This being the case, why would one or the other be more suitable for
    any particular mission profile?  Why clutter up the logistical tail
    with two sets of factories, spare parts, flight and maintenance crew
    training programs, etc?

    I can understand the Pentagon supporting multiple development programs.
    Either plane could have turned out to be a failure in combat.  But once
    proven effective, why would both be kept in production?  Did each plane
    really fill some particular combat requirement better, or did homefront
    political and/or economic realities prevent either one from being
    phased out?

    I'm sure some of our aircraft fans here have some good answers.

    -El

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 08:14:46 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Medals

Hello, William!

Thanks for the note and hope you had a wonderful holiday season.

>     I have several questions regarding real and replica medals.  I have a
> Pour le Merite replica, a Knight's Cross w/leaves+swords, and a Luftwaffe
> pilot's badge.  All of them are made with solid steel.  In the case of
> the leaves and oaks, the two are of the same steel mold.  The black paint
> on the KC and the blue paint on the PlM are just that - paint, rather than
> some special material.  Is this accurate?

    Will try to answer your questions, if someone else hasn't already.
The KC was made of 900 quality silver and was so stamped on the back
edge of the decoration. The "paint" was black lacquer.

    I am not familiar with the PLM, but I do have info on this if you
still need it. Please advise.

        Were the original medals just
> cheap pieces of steel with paint?

    Absolutely not. They were jeweled items and worth a great deal.
All metals used were precious or semi-precious.

 Or were they made of
real silver and/or
> gold?

    Absolutely. The KC with Oakleaves and Swords were of genuine
silver and so marked. The Diamonds to this decoration consisted of 43
diamonds inlaid onto the oakleaf portion of the decoration. In the
case of Rudel's singular decoration, that too was of geniune gold and
diamonds. These decorations are in the possession of his son and are
said to be locked in a bank vault in Southern Germany.

Also, I bought my replica Luftwaffe pin for some 25 bucks or somthing
> like that.  I was flipping through an aviation history mag and saw it for
> 5 to 15 bucks.  Is there a difference in quality between replicas?  TIA

    Probably. They are certainly easier to come by, and in some
cases, with today's technology, the copies are of better quality.

    Hope this helps, and please let me know about the PLM info.

    All the best.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 08:48:08 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Inf: 3rd Army Chronology - 9Jan45

January 9, 1945
D-Day +217

-G-2 indicates the possibility of an enemy thrust toward Luxemburg and Metz.
 The Twelfth Army Group informed 3rd Army that a directive from SHAEF
 indicated the the 3rd might be held up in their attack in the Bastogne area
 and divert divisions to the Moselle River area, southeast of Luxemburg
 to meet a possoble German attack. General Patton makes remarks about
 "another case of higher command seeing phantom devils where none existed".

-Artillery supports III Corps in their attack at 091000. The 26th Inf Div
 reaches highground over the town of Wiltz. 90th Inf Div captures Berle and
 Trentelhof.

-101st Airborne adavances 2 miles into Recogne.

-In bad weather XIX TAC sent out 24 sorties in bomber escorts.

-Gen Patton complains about shipment of winter clothing sitting in LeHarve,
 waiting for transport. Gen Lee of ComZ requests 3rd Army use their own
 trucks to transport supplies. 3rd Army vehicles were employed on the front.
 ComZ vehicles were acused of "... move office equipment ... to more plush
 surroundings".

***Source: _Patton's Third Army, a Chronology_ by Charles Province.
   Typos are mine.

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 09:44:11 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <newst@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: WEAP:  US Heavy Bomber Comparison

     Text deleted

     >But once proven effective, why would both be kept in production?  Did
     >each plane really fill some particular combat requirement better, or
     >did homefront political and/or economic realities prevent either one
     >from being phased out?

     >I'm sure some of our aircraft fans here have some good answers.

     >-El


     Although the B-24 had greater range and altitude performance over the
     B-17, a fact that gave the B-24 a preference in selection for Asian
     operations, the two aircraft did really fit a similar performance
     envelope.

     Production of both aircraft was maintained basically because the Army
     Air Force needed all the heavy bombers it could get.  Although it may
     have been possible to get all of the many factories involved in
     production of heavy bombers and assemblies to convert to a single
     design, this would have involved the risk that a shortage of a single
     component/assembly would halt all heavy bomber production.  As it was,
     if a shortage of B-17 engines occurred, B-24 production would continue
     unaffected.

     Finally, it may not have been possible to coerce Boeing to build B-24s
     or Consolidated to build B-17s.  I'm not sure of the laws in effect
     during the war, but I am aware that in more than one occasion, when an
     aircraft manufacturer was asked to produce another company's airframe
     (North American to build Curtis P-40s for instance) the answer was
     essentially "No, we have a better idea to offer you."

    Steve L. New
    NEWST@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL
    Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 09:32:16 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Inf: 3rd Army Chronology - 10Jan45

January 10, 1945
D-Day + 218

-G-2 estimates that German stengths in front of 3rd Army lines at 74,000,
 the equivalent of about 9 divisions and 220 tanks/assault vehicles.
 Replacements were thought not to keep up with losses.

-Small advances in experienced by all III Corps units. 6th Calvalry captures
 Betlange, Watrange, and Harlange. 6th Armored offers fire support for
 35th Inf Div which captures Villers-le-Bonne-Eau and Lutremange.

-VIII Corps clears Tillet and Bonnerue.

-XIX TAC flew 325 sorties, dropping 182 tons of bombs claiming 246 vehicles,
 14 tanks or armored vehicles, 145 railroad cars, and 4 bridges.

-A train wreck at Messancy destroys most of munitions destined for Supply
 Point #39 at Mellier serving VIII Corps. Some ammunition was salvaged
 by round the clock activity.

-1,806 displaced persons were in camps in 3rd Army areas.

**********

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 09:33:04 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: WW II Mysteries

Hello, Allan!

Would like to respond to this, if I may.


> It is a fact -- so I have understood -- that the Bolshevik leaders
> hoped for World War I to develop into a revolution in Germany.

    That is accurate.

> Was Germany's role so important for the Bolsheviks that Stalin in
> the thirties poured money into Germany to support the Nazis to become
> strong enough to root out Social Democrats and Pacifists?

    Never heard of that, as Russia and particularly Stalin at the
time was more concerned with forced collectivization and the
resultant famine that that had created. It is true that there was a
connection with American financing of Hitler's pre-election
campaigns, but nothing to the extent you suggest by Stalin.


 I have heard
> that this is true, but I cannot believe it. His intentions being that
> Hitler would do the chores for him in Germany as well as Europe, and
> when the conditions were ripe, then he would attack not only Germany,
> but all Western-European countries. Can this be true?

    Yes and no. Stalin had feared this tactic would be used against
him by the Western Allies in an attempt to get him or Germany to
fight each other and then step in after all was over.


  > Thanks in advance!

    Hope this has been of help and thanks again.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 09:40:21 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: BATTLE OF THE BULG

Hello, Ben!

I will attempt to answer your questions on this interesting topic
later on today.

There are explanations. For the most part, the Allies did expect an
attack but one from farther north in the area around Cologne/Aachen.
Will explain later on.

    More later.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 17:10:01 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@NAT2.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: WEAP: US Heavy Bomber Comparison

On Mon, 9 Jan 1995, Eliot K. Friedman wrote:

>     This being the case, why would one or the other be more suitable for
>     any particular mission profile?  Why clutter up the logistical tail
>     with two sets of factories, spare parts, flight and maintenance crew
>     training programs, etc?

First of all, it is not simple to switch production. The choice is not
between two sets of factories or one set of factories. Its between having
two sets of factories, or half of the factories producing nothing useful
for several months. Availability is as important a quality for a combat
aircraft as anything else. For example, production of the Curtiss P-40
continued during the entire war, despite the availability of much better
designs.

The B-17 was originally designed as a long-range medium bomber, in a time
were few people in the US considered getting involved in warfare in
Europe and Asia. The B-24 was a later design, developed by Consolidated
in preference to building B-17s. In theory, the B-24 had a twice as large
bomb capacity; in practice this advantage vanished. The B-17 was easier
to fly, and alledgedly sturdier. The B-24 had longer range, and was
therefore more suitable for operations in the Pacific and maritime
patrol. It was advantegaous enough to have both.

Also, don't forget that production of the B-17 and B-24 began to run up
when both bombers were still unsatisfactory; the B-17E and B-24D were not
really combat-ready aircraft. The USAAF could only hope that at least one
of them would develop into a satisfactory bomber. When the B-17F and B-24H
began the enter service, the production had already gained momentum. It
was more effective to just continue it.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 09:23:12 CST
From:    Michael P LaForge <mlaforge@SAVANNA-EMH1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: PVT Shafer

On 12 April 1945, the 63d Division was clearing enemy positions along the
Kocher River line south of Weissbach Germany.  The bAttle of the Bulge had
long been over.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:17:53 -0600
From:    "William L. Huber - SAA" <whuber@SADIS01.KELLY.AF.MIL>
Subject: Re: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")

>         Sometimes, Patton wore one pistol.
>         Sometimes, Patton wore two pistols.
>
> Regards, Sidney.

Seems like I remember him wearing one ivory handled revolver at the
hip but he also carried an .380 automatic as well.

Interesting story David, I know the feeling when a couple of vets are
telling war stories and you practically sprain and ear trying to
listen in.  If I had a nickle for every hour I spent at a gunshow
listening to vets while trying to look interested in a table full of
duck decoys....

What's the going price on panzerschrecks these days anyway?

Cheers, Bill Huber / whuber@sadis01.kelly.af.mil

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 11:34:00 EST
From:    "Eliot K. Friedman" <ekfriedm@AEC1.APGEA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: WEAP:  US Heavy Bomber Comparison

    Steve New replies to my query about the logic of maintaining similar US
    heavy bomber designs.

>    Although the B-24 had greater range and altitude performance over the
>    B-17, a fact that gave the B-24 a preference in selection for Asian
>    operations, the two aircraft did really fit a similar performance
>    envelope.

    I did get the impression from reading the 50 Years Ago mission
    descriptions that the B-24 had a significantly greater range, but
    the stats I've read contradict this, which is what motivated my
    original question.

>    Finally, it may not have been possible to coerce Boeing to build B-24s
>    or Consolidated to build B-17s.  I'm not sure of the laws in effect
>    during the war, but I am aware that in more than one occasion, when an
>    aircraft manufacturer was asked to produce another company's airframe
>    (North American to build Curtis P-40s for instance) the answer was
>    essentially "No, we have a better idea to offer you."

    I doubt the manufacturers could out-and-out refuse to build any
    particular design.  Certainly, they could suggest alternatives, but if
    the DoD insisted on a particular design, it wouldn't make legal,
    economic or political sense to refuse war work while production
    facilities sat idle.

    El

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:57:02 -0600
From:    "William L. Huber - SAA" <whuber@SADIS01.KELLY.AF.MIL>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners??

> Does anyone know if any German ocean liners were "seized" at the outbreak of
> the war? If so, were they turned into Allied troops ships?
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi John,

I know that German merchantmen were seized and presumably any ship
flying the German flag in allied ports was treated likewise.  I speak
up on this because in the course of some research I was doing I came
across the obituary of an SS officer and in it they mention that his
father was a captain of a merchantman being held in Cuba.  From that I
assume that at least the crews were held for the duration of the war
but precisely what happened to the ship I cannot say.

Cheers, Bill Huber / whuber@sadis01.kelly.af.mil

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:22:47 GMT+6
From:    Esaul Zermeno Bautista <EZERMENO@DPED.DPED.UAA.MX>
Subject: <No subject given>

I hope that somebody could help me.
  My situation is that I had been searching for the movie STALINGRAD'
But is hard to find in Mexico , could anybody tell me how I can get it
or where i can obtain or buy or something.....

Thanks in advance.
      Alfredo Zermeno Bautista.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 11:46:31 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: BATTLE OF THE BULG

Hello, again, Ben!

Sorry about the hiatus but have been trying to get organized after
being out of school for three weeks.

Will try to answer very briefly your questions to a complicated
situation.

Why was there an "intelligence" failure?

1. Viewed from the Allied side:

    Eisenhower and his chief of intelligence, Major-General Sir
Kenneth Strong, along with Bradley and others, had predicted a major
German assault emminating from the Cologne/Aachen area, as
concentrations there suggested such. Also, it was clear to the
Germans, the High Command and others, that the Roer River dams in
that part of the country were major Allied targets, and had to be
captured, if they were to gain access to the Ruhr. Thus, Allied
intentions were focused on this part of the front. As it later turned
out, the Germans did their best to assist the Allies in keeping their
attention focused on this area.

    It must also be considered that by December 1944, Eisenhower had
only 60 divisions on the continent of Europe. The closer his forces
came to the German border, the longer became his front. This meant
that he had to look for barriers that could be easily defended from
the enemy with a minimal amount of troops, particularly if he were to
concentrate his forces for major assaults elsewhere as he had to do
at Arnhem and Antwerp.

    Since the area of the Ardennes was a quiet sector, he left that
area to be defended by 4 divisions and given the length of the front
there, 85 miles, he was thus forced to require each division to man a
front of 20 miles each instead of the 4 or 5 miles recommended in
most military manuals.

    All this was noticed by Adolf Hitler. He did his best to maintain
Allied preoccupation with the Ruhr area and thus keep their attention
diverted from the Ardennes escapade. To do this, he deliberately
maintained the ruse that the Germans were weak in this area by using
it in the same way as the Allies, namely to rest tired troops and
reconstitute new divisions. I won't go into all the detail but will
briefly give some reasons why the Americans were surprised in the
Ardennes.

   It must not be overlooked that by December 1944, the
Allies were infected with a common malady found among victory-flushed
troops. Ever since the landings in Normandy, the British and
Americans had advanced from one victory to another and had made
spectacular gains, as you well know. It was natural to think that
with such massive German withdrawals coupled with huge military
losses, that the belief within the Allied camp was that the Germans
were finished. Only one more push and the whole affair with Germany
woudl be over. That was the thinking in December 1944 within the
Western Allied camp, from army commander to GI in the front lines.

    This led to carelessness. With the current military situation at
the time of both German and Allies, it is easy to understand why the
Americans particularly were surprised at the German assault in this
area.

    From the German side:

    What Hitler did to maintain the ruse of German weakness in the
Ardennes centered around secrecy, as mentioned in other posts. Here
is what AH did to ensure that.

    1. Required only written orders to be formulated and delivered to
all personnel with a need-to-know, thus skirting the use
of Enigma.

    2. Transferred "tired" troops to the Ardennes with all equipment,
left there for a time, withdrawn but leaving behind all heavy
equipment that could and was easily camouflaged or stored for later
use.

    3. All other troop or vehicular movement was made at night.

    4. In areas close to the anticipated front, aircraft flew up and
down the front line to cover the sound of motorized traffic.

    5. During the night preceding the attack, straw was laid on the
roadways to cover the sound of motors, horses and men.

    As you can see, this worked to the disadvantage of the Germans as
well as to the Americans. Field commanders had no idea who there
neighbors were, in essence, and had no idea that the troops to either
side of them were of any fighting value, as they had not trained
together for the operation. This also led to confusion in the German
lines as well.

    In many cases, officers had not trained with their subordinates
in the field, particularly those transferred at the last minute and,
yet, were expected to carry through.

    You also ask the question why Eisenhower didn't fire anyone over
this. There was no reason to. Eisenhower himself ran a calculated
risk with fortifying the Ardennes with so few troops, something he
was forced to do given the military situation described above. If he
were going to fire anyone, he would have to start with the officers
responsible in the front lines all the way up to his own
headquarters. He could not do that, and he certainly couldn't fire
anyone for a situation he himself had accepted at the time.

    I hope this helps to answer your questions. If you have any
others, I will be very glad to attempt a response.

    All the best, and good luck this New Year 1995.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 12:04:25 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Schindler's List

Hello, Christopher!

    Will try to answer your questions if someone else hasn't already.

  First, Amon Goethe, the camp commandante
> > and the movie's bad guy, only has the rank of Untersharfuhrer at the beginning

    I, too, saw this movie for the first time over the holidays. I
saw no technical fault on the Waffen-SS uniforms used. If memory
serves me correctly, Goethe received one promotion during the time
span covered in this movie. He went from Untersturmfuehrer to
Hauptsturmfuehrer (captain).


> > Isn't this rank a little low for a commandant?

    Not really. Rudolf Hoess was only a Sturmbannfuehrer and went to
Obersturmbannfuehrer while commandant of Auschwitz.


 (I think it's equal to a
> > Lieutenant).  Theodore Eicke was an Oberstfuhrer or something (general).

    Theodor Eicke attained the rank of Obergruppenfuehrer or the
equivalent to Lieutenant-General in the British and American forces.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 13:08:37 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <newst@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: WEAP:  US Heavy Bomber Comparison

     >>Steve New replies to my query about the logic of maintaining similar
     >>US heavy bomber designs.

     >Although the B-24 had greater range and altitude performance over the
     >B-17, a fact that gave the B-24 a preference in selection for Asian
     >operations, the two aircraft did really fit a similar performance
     >envelope.

     >>I did get the impression from reading the 50 Years Ago mission
     >>descriptions that the B-24 had a significantly greater range, but
     >>the stats I've read contradict this, which is what motivated my
     >>original question.

     >Finally, it may not have been possible to coerce Boeing to build
     >B-24s or Consolidated to build B-17s.  I'm not sure of the laws in
     >effect during the war, but I am aware that in more than one occasion,
     >when an aircraft manufacturer was asked to produce another company's
     >airframe (North American to build Curtis P-40s for instance) the
     >answer was essentially "No, we have a better idea to offer you."

     >>I doubt the manufacturers could out-and-out refuse to build any
     >>particular design.  Certainly, they could suggest alternatives, but
     >>if the DoD insisted on a particular design, it wouldn't make legal,
     >>economic or political sense to refuse war work while production
     >>facilities sat idle.

     >>El

     So El, after deleting the major thrust of my response, and responding
     to the side issues, "What's your point?"

    Steve L. New
    NEWST@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL
    Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 12:15:46 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: HIST: Trivia

Hello, David!

No, it wasn't the Horst Wessel Lied. That was the anthem of the
NSDAP.

 > Horst Wessel? Just a guess.

    Will keep looking into it. Thanks for the response though.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 12:53:33 -0600
From:    JEFF ROBERTS <JJR7904@TNTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: INF: USN Chronology 01-09-95

> Subj: INF: USN Chronology 01-09-95
>
>             United States naval vessels damaged:

>              Transport WARHAWK (AP-168), by suicide boat, Philippine
>               Islands area,
>               16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.

Suicide BOAT?

I knew that the Japanese planned to use suicide boats against OLYMPIC and
CORONET but have never heard of their actual employment.  Any further
information regarding their use would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jeff Roberts
JJR7904@tntech.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 13:14:29 -0600
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <rjg@STAT.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP:  US Heavy Bomber Comparison

Trying exactly to sound like an advertisement, I could make the suggestion
that everyone might want to visit St. Paul the weekend after Oshkosh this
August (4, 5 and 6 -- Holman Field) when we'll have the B-29, B-24 and B-17
on the ramp permitting up close and personal inspection and comparison of
each aircraft, solving this question once and for all.  :-) :-)

(It's within the charter, because it deals with comparison of WWII heavy
bombers.. :-)  I love pushing the envelope.  :-)

--
\\ Robert J. Granvin                                 User Services Specialist
// School of Statistics - University of Minnesota            rjg@stat.umn.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 13:23:21 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: France's Forgotten Past / Dracy

Hello, Bill!

Just a quickie note to your post.

> Regarding the original post that began this thread, the one that
> mentioned the documentary on the camp near Paris called Drancy, did
> any of the list members happen to videotape that program?  I am
> looking for a copy so if you happened to get it please email me at
> whuber@sadis01.kelly.af.mil

    Did you ever see the 4-hour documentary called "The Sorrow and
the Pity" which dealt exclusively with France's relationship to
Germany during the Occupation?" If not, that is one to see. It won a
major movie prize in Europe for the best documentary of 1972.

    Thanks.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 14:23:00 EST
From:    "Eliot K. Friedman" <ekfriedm@AEC1.APGEA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re[2]: PVT Shafer, 63rd Division

Re: PVT Shafer...

> On 12 April 1945, the 63d Division was clearing enemy positions along the
> Kocher River line south of Weissbach Germany.  The bAttle of the Bulge
> had long been over.

    This didn't catch my eye on the first pass, but I've got a similar
    story that might lead to something.

    My dad was in the 63rd Division.  He'd been in some sort of OCS program
    where he stayed in college, but "got pulled out midway through his
    senior year because the Army needed men on account of the Bulge",
    according to my mother.

    I always assumed she had her facts wrong, and that my dad couldn't
    possibly have gotten pulled out of school, sent through basic training,
    signal school, and gotten to Europe in time to get a Purple Heart and a
    promotion to Sergeant, all between the Bulge and V-E Day.  My own
    suspicion was that Dad decided the Army would be more fun than taking
    his Differential Equations final exam.

    This Shafer story tells me that there was considerable confusion on the
    home front about the day to day progress at the fronts, and maybe that
    the 63rd got to Europe quicker than most.

    In any case, last time I visited my parents, I saw my dad had a 63rd
    Division Veteran's Association newsletter lying around, which surprised
    me, as his Army life has never been something he's cared to relive.  I
    recall the Association is having some sort of reunion in the Catskills
    resort area of NY State this year.  They may have some people there
    who'd remember Private Shafer.  I can ask my dad for the address, if
    the original poster is interested in following up.

    El

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 14:42:28 EST
From:    Mike Long <MLONG@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: USCGC Eagle / Horst Wessal

Steve,

Yup, I'll second that third hand info.

The Coast Gaurd training ship EAGLE was the former German training ship
Horst Wessal. I don't know about the Conrad but I've got some nice pictures
of both vessels from my canoe (C.W.Morgan too for that matter)

Mike

PS (Steve I've tried to back channel you but no luck, so I'm bothering
    the whole list.  )



Michael Long
Programmer Analyst II
University of Connecticut
196 Auditorium Road, U-138    |   Bitnet: MLONG@UCONNVM.BITNET
Storrs, Connecticut, USA      | Internet: MLONG@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU
                   06269-3138 |    Phone: (203) 486-1352

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 13:46:41 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Alternatives to the A-bombs

Hello, Eliot!

Just an addendum to your post.

>     That being said, gratuitous slaughter isn't great either.  Thus, I
>     wonder why I haven't heard any serious mention of a third strategy,
>     blockade.

    Blockade was mentioned, I believe in earlier posts. It was
certainly considered by the Allies, but there were problems with such
a policy.

    1. There was always the risk that some ships could get through,
as no blockade is airtight.

    2. It would take months, if not years, to starve out the
Japanese, and the Allies could not maintain such a long-term
blockade, as their respective constituencies were wanting a much
quicker solution.

    3. It would have required a prodigious number of ships to
maintain a blockade of many months duration, and the required
logistics of resupply, refueling and relief of personnel would have
been prohibitive over the long haul.


 Allied air/naval superiority was so overwhelming by 1945
>     that continued naval blockade of the home islands would have left the
>     Japanese with the immediate, inescapable choice of surrender or
>     starving to death in the dark.  No glorious battlefield.

    Certainly not, but it would have taken a long time to get the
Japanese to that point, and don't forget that the Japanese had been
under blockade early in the war, albeit through submarines, where
possible.
 >
>     Would this have been more "humane" than the nuclear strategy?

    Again, that depends on how you view the problem. Humane, perhaps
in our view, but barbaric from the viewpoint of the Japanese. And,
given the justifiable feeling at the time of Americans toward the
Japanese, humaneness was not on the upper end of the average person's
vocabulary.


 It
>     certainly would have generated far fewer Allied casualties than
>     invasion.

    Perhaps, but the commitment of time and effort would have
been tremendous.


    If I'd been advising Truman, and the A-bombs hadn't
worked, >     I'd have recommended it over invasion any day.

    Perhaps, but Truman did the proper thing and he never regretted
making that decision. However, in war, the idea is to inflict as much
damage on the enemy as quickly as possible and force him from the
battlefield. Blockade would not have accomplished that.

    Thanks, and hope this has been of help.

    All the best.

    Terry

 >
>     El
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 13:58:02 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: HIST: Trivia/militaria

Hello, Warren!

I take it that this deals with the ropes used to hang the major war
criminals sentenced to death at Nuremberg in October 1946.



> Patrick Marsden posted on pieces of rope used in the Nuremberg hangings.
> Question: How does one verify the provenance of such items? [Or were
> they possibly "reproductions"? ;-)]

    In any case, any one marketing these for sale is pulling a fast
one on the public.

    Those ropes were all burned, and a brand new one was used to hang
each of the condemned.

    The reason for this was to prevent anyone from profiting from the
sale of the ropes, and to prevent the likelihood of any of them being
used to glorify the past.

    Hope this helps. BTW, the official US hangman was Master Sergeant
John Woods, of San Antonio, TX. Up to the time of his employment at
Dachau, he had hanged over 300 men.

    All the best.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 13:55:06 CST
From:    Robert Hohlt <rhohlt@MGM.SAIC.COM>
Subject: Re: Invasion of Kyushu / Operation OLYMPIC

Hello all,

Hope everyone had a wonderful holiday season.

I would like to share with you list members some information I went after
during my trip back home this Christmas.  Remembering all of the
discussions on our list about the A-Bombs, Enola Gay, the Smithsonian and
the many discussions spawned by these topics,  I asked my father about
his USAAF duty at the end of the Pacific war.  My father told me he was
training in St. Petersburg, Florida for an O.S.S. operation he had
volunteered for.  I remember my father telling me this story years ago but
the discussions on our list concerning operation Olympic and what would
have happened, brought this back to mind for me.

Some of you probably know better than I about this but here goes anyway.

The Japanese islands were not as isolated from each other as they might
have appeared.  Apparently, the Japanese islands, Kyushu, and the others
had railroad tunnels which connected the islands with the mainland.  These
were subchannel and subterranean rail links between the Japanese mainland
and the islands,  like the new France / England chunnel(sp?).

Anyway, my father was training in St. Petersburg, Florida for a mission
which would take out the underground tunnels before operation OLYMPIC was
to start.  The operation was to use 85 foot boats painted to resemble
Japanese fishing boats, which would then be sunk on top of the underground
tunnels.  My Father said they were going to load each of the 85 ft boats
with 50000 lbs of explosives.

[ I have no idea if it would work, or how big a hole in the ocean floor
50000 lbs of TNT would make.  I am just relaying info to you list readers
as my Father told it to me. ]

These 85 ft boats were to be controlled from B-17s using TV and remote
control.  My fathers job on one of the B-17s was to be a TV focus person
since the early TV sets required constant focusing.

An officer was required to fly/pilot/drive the boat via the TV and remote
control.  My father also said that as insurance,  each 85 ft boat was to be
accompanied by two 35 ft boats each packed with 5000 lb of TNT which would
be sent to RAM into anything which challenged the bigger boats.  He said
these smaller boats could make better than 40 knots.

My father said that he was really worried about having to go on this mission
since the B-17 would have had to remain in the area for a while until the
big boat could be sunk over the tunnel.

Like Ben Frank and John Ausland, my father is happy that Hiroshima and
Nagasaki brought the war to an end and therefore made his O.S.S. mission
unnecessary.  I have no way of knowing, but perhaps those A-Bombs saved
his life.  Obviously had he gone on the mission and been shot down/captured
or killed by enemy aircraft or flak, my chance of existence is remote.

If any of you list experts have any more information on these O.S.S missions
to destroy the underground rail lines between the Japanese islands before
operation Olympic please let me know.  I would also be very happy to pass
along any questions or comments any of you listers have for my father and
his mission/training.

Regards and Happy New Year.

Robert Hohlt, Jr.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 14:22:58 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Trivia: Nazi escapees

Hello, William!

Will try to answer your questions, but a complete listing will be
well nigh impossible, as it is still not certain who is alive today
or then or what the status of some of those people was at the time.
However, will give you what I know off the top of my head.


>      Who are some Nazis that have never been found and are assumed to
> have escaped to South America (or Antartica, as some seem to think)?

    Klaus Barbee-the Gestapo chief of Laon went to South America.
    Adolf Eichmann-Argentina
    Josef Mengele-Argentina, Paraguay
    Joachim Peiper was not a war criminal at the time of his death as
he had been released from Landsberg Prison after serving time there
for the Malmedy Massacre. He had immigrated there with his wife and
daughter.

    Otto Skorzeny-Spain. He was head of Mercedes-Benz in Madrid.
    Leon Degrelle-lived under an assumed name in Madrid, Spain.

    I wouldn't say that Skorzeny was a war criminal, as he was not
put on trial for the commission of war crimes. He and many others
with no incriminating war record merely immigrated to other countries
to start life anew. Others went overseas at the behest of other
governments, such as Werner Baumbach, the General of the Bombers who
went to Argentina to help build or train the Argentinian Air Force.
Adolf Galland was another.

    The above are the only ones that come to mind. There were lesser
fish with an incriminating background who were much less glamorous,
such as concentration camp guards who fled where possible, such as
John Demjanjuk. But the really big-wigs are listed above or were
already mentioned to you in earlier posts.

    BTW, Rudolf Hess wasn't the only German official occupying a
prison cell until the 1990's when he committed suicide. There was
also Walter Reder, a major in the Waffen-SS, who was responsible for
the deaths of 1600 Italian civilians. The Italians sentenced him to
life imprisonment in the Gaeta military prison near Rome, and was
released some 8 years ago, but has since died. He lived in Vienna,
Austria.

    Another one that sat in the same prison with Reder was Josef
Kammler, the head of the Gestapo in Rome. He was smuggled out of the
prison in a suitcase by his wife. He was imprisoned for his role in
the execution of 250 Italians in what came to be called the Ardeatine
Massacre.

> The only person that I can think of is Muller and Bormann (though it
> was mentioned that he went to the Soviets).  TIA

    No proof of that. Bormann died trying to leave Berlin. Mueller
was rumored to have gone over to the Soviets and the like, but there
was no proof of that. It was also rumored that he was in Albania
helping the Albanians with their security service, but, again, no
proof.

    Hope this helps, and if you have any other question, please don't
hesitate to ask.

    All the best.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 16:26:51 EST
From:    Mike Long <MLONG@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: USCG Eagle

The following is taken from "THE U.S.COAST GUARD BARQUE EAGLE"
 a handout given at the U.S.C.G. Academy here in New London.

Eagle, the largest Tall Ship flying the Stars and Stripes and the only
Square-rigger in U.S. Government Service, is the seventh Coast Guard
cutter to bear the name in a proud line dating back to 1792. The ship
was built in 1936 by the Blohm and Voss shipyard in Hamburg, Germany,
and commisioned as Horst Wessel, one of three sailing ships operated
by Nazi Germany to train cadets for the growing German Navy. Early in
WWII it was converted to a cargo ship, transporting men and supplies
throughout the Baltic Sea, but continued a training mission as well.
The ship is said to have downed three aircraft in combat during this
period. Following WWII, it was taken as a war prize by the United States
and a Coast Guard crew--aided by the German crew still on board-- sailed
the ship in 1946 from Bremehaven to its new homeport in New London, CT.
Eagle now serves as a seagoing classroom for the future offices of the
U.S.Coast Guard.
Eagle has a steel hull .40 thick, two full length steel decks with a
platform deck below and a raised forecastle and quarterdeck; and
weather decks made up of three inch thick teak over steel. There are
over 5 miles of rigging; 200 lines are used to control the sails and
yards.

Length, Overall      295.0ft
Length, Waterline    231.0ft
Beam,greatest         39.1ft
Freeboard              9.1ft
Draft (Fully loaded)  16.0ft
Disp    "      "        1816 tons
Sail Area             22,227 sq ft
Speed (under power)       10 knts
Speed (undersail)   up to 17 knts
Anchors                3,860 lbs


Mike


Michael Long
Programmer Analyst II
University of Connecticut
196 Auditorium Road, U-138    |   Bitnet: MLONG@UCONNVM.BITNET
Storrs, Connecticut, USA      | Internet: MLONG@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU
                   06269-3138 |    Phone: (203) 486-1352

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 17:11:05 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <MFY@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Soviet slang

For Gudmundur Helgason:
        Sorry to take so long to reply; don't know much Soviet slang but offhandhere are a few air force terms:
        The MBR-2 seaplane, a real crate with high wing and a single centrally-
mounted engine on the wing, was known as the "ambar" ("barn"), a play on words
on the phonetic pronunciation of the letters MBR in Russian (also probably an
apt description of its flying characteristics).  Many of these aircraft remainedin use with Soviet fleet air forces in a reconnaisance role.
        The lend-lease US P-39 Airacobra (USSR received roughly half of the
9,000 or so produced) was known as the "kobry" (Russianization of "Cobra")
or as the "britschik" (roughly, "little shaver").
This was a very-widely encountered aircraft, several of the top ten Soviet
aces flew it for much of the war, including number two Aleksandr Pokryshin,
credited with 59 victories (he also bounced German #2 ace Barkhorn in 1944)
and the Glinka brothers.
        Finally, the LaGG-3 fighter used in 1941-42 was nicknamed (again in
a pun on the designation) "Lakirovani Garantirovani Grob" or "Varnished
Guaranteed Coffin" due to its high-gloss finish (to enhance speed) and its
problematic handling.
        I have a feeling there are a few more rattling around my brain, if
any surface I'll relay them to you.  Hope this helps.

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 17:16:33 -0500
From:    "Mr. Scott Hannon" <hannon@UMBC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: PVT Shafer, 63rd Division

Eliot K. Friedman writes:

re: US 63rd Infantry Division

>    My dad was in the 63rd Division.  He'd been in some sort of OCS program
>    where he stayed in college, but "got pulled out midway through his
>    senior year because the Army needed men on account of the Bulge",
>    according to my mother.
>
>    I always assumed she had her facts wrong, and that my dad couldn't

With the end of the war thought to be winding down, the Army decided it
would it wouldn't be needing a lot of soldiers with specialized skills
in a year or two (the war would be over by then), so tens of thousand of
Army men in college (or other advanced training schools) suddenly found
themselves in the infantry (which the Army, by fall-44, was getting in
desperate need of). These troops were used in large part to flush out a
few divisions still in the USA awaiting final training and shipment
overseas. These men were already in the Army, so I think they'd all have
already completed basic training (the college was for advance specialty
training...pilots/crew, engineering, etc).

I don't know exactly what proportion of these men went where, but I
do know a few thousand went to the 103 Infantry Division, and probably
the other newly formed divs sent to Europe at the end of '44 (63 and 70
and maybe others).

The 63rd Infantry Division wasn't fully formed as an operational
division until early February 1945, but it's infantry elements had been
on/near the front since mid-December as Task Force Harris. The force was
soon parcelled out, with one regiment each going to the 3, 44, and 100
IDs of 6th Army Group.

The three inf regts saw their first major actions in the Nordwind and
Colmar battles of January 1945 (operating with the above named divs).

Unfortunately, there are not many easily available sources dealing
with the division or its elements. I think there was a divisional
history (and maybe a regimental history) published a few decades ago.
But they are now very difficult to find (some may have been re-printed
but AFAIK are no longer available). There may be a 63 ID history
available thru Turner Press for $50...I don't remember.

One fairly easy to find book that deal with the Nordwind/Colmar
battles (and thus briefly on the 63rd ID's operations) is Charles
Whiting's _Operation Nordwind_. It's probably now out of print, but
used copies (hardcover or paperback) shouldn't be too hard to find.
Also the US Army's Center for Military History _Riviera to Rhine_
(available from the Gov't Printing Office for about $30). Both were
published within the last few years.

Scott.
Scott Hannon, Mon Jan 9 1995 (hannon@umbc.edu)

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 17:17:08 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <MFY@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP:Japanese Planes?

Emmanuel, I'll defer to your knowledge of WW2 aircraft any day.  I thought
I read that term "hikoki" somewhere but until I find it I'll admit my
knowledge of Japanese doesn't go much beyond being able to order sushi
without embarrasing myself.  If I forgot P (land-based light bomber) in
the Japanese scheme it was a typo (like placing J after K).  BTW, do you
have any specs for the R and S types you mentioned that you could post to
the list, and/or operational and flight history??

PS I also caught a boo-boo, the Shiden was N1K2-J (not N1K1).

Regards

Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 17:19:26 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <hhs@EVEREST.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Martyred Villages"

Dear William,

I'm not sure what the Holocaust Museum criterion was- probably the loss
of the Jewish community, But in at least some cases, that would have
been close to the entire town, especially for some of the smaller
market towns. Why not give the Museum a call?

HS

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 15:49:58 CST
From:    "SCHERRER, TIM" <AD16@NEMOMUS.BITNET>
Subject: Re[2]: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")

I don;t know about Panzerschrecks but some repro Panzerfausts, which
were extra production pieces for "Stalingrad" were being sold by WWII
Products Ltd in St. Louis for $189, or $199--these are the Rommel
goggles people if that rings a bell.

I have a friend of mine who made a "schreck" out of pvc pipe and
plastic.  I don;t know if he sells but I could ask if you are game.  He
made a faux MP-28 that looks pretty good--out of wood and plastic as
well.  It's non-firing in case you hadn;t guessed.  TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 00:42:56 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@EVSDS.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: WEAP:Japanese Planes?

On Mon, 9 Jan 1995, Mike Yaklich wrote:

> the Japanese scheme it was a typo (like placing J after K).  BTW, do you
> have any specs for the R and S types you mentioned that you could post to
> the list, and/or operational and flight history??

*Operational* history? No, that just doesn't exist. These are very obscure
types. I've never seen a photograph of them. They are the kind of aircraft
get listed in footnotes, just to be complete. I would appreciate if someone
had some more information about these types, for they seem interesting
enough.

The Aichi S1A Denko ('Lightning Bolt') nightfighter was the last Aichi
aircraft design. It had a crew of two, and was powered by two Nakajima Homare
NK9K-S radial engines.  Armament is reported as four 30mm cannon and two
20mm; the radar was probably a copy of a German type. The S1A is reported to
have had a top speed of 589km/h, which is not particularly good. Two were
built.

The Yokosuka R2Y Keiun ('Beautiful Cloud') was a fast land-based
reconaissance aircraft. Logic demands that there must have been a R1x, but I
never heard about it. The R2Y flew only once, before the prototype was
destroyed in a bombardment. It was powered by two coupled 1700hp Atsuta 30
engines, driving three-bladed contrarotating propellers. In my view, and
keeping in mind that the Atsuta itself was not a very good engine, such
engine installation must have been troublesome beyond the bearable. But such
madness is not unique, not even for Japanese WWII aircraft.

> PS I also caught a boo-boo, the Shiden was N1K2-J (not N1K1).

Sorry Mike, the N1K1-J was called Shiden and the N1K2-J Shiden-Kai. The
N1K1-J was a direct land-based adaptation of the N1K1 floatplane fighter, the
N1K2-J was the thoroughly re-designed version.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 18:01:34 -0600
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <TWATTS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU>
Subject: TRIVIA: Decks

Hope this doesn't sound too off the wall.  It is my understanding that
the flight decks of U.S. carriers in the 1930's were covered with wood
(teak, I think).  If so, and if it was teak (which I think came from
Southeast Asia, which was occupied by the Japanese), what was used for
all the new construction during the war and for repairs to existing
decks?  Was some other wood used, or were the decks really made of
steel?

TIA
Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 23:19:18 GMT+1
From:    SYSTEM OPERATOR <system@ABOUIS.FDN.ORG>
Subject: Re: WEAP:  US Heavy Bomber Comparison

"Steve L. New" <newst@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL> writes:

>      Production of both aircraft was maintained basically because the Army
>      Air Force needed all the heavy bombers it could get.  Although it may
>      have been possible to get all of the many factories involved in
>      production of heavy bombers and assemblies to convert to a single
>      design, this would have involved the risk that a shortage of a single
>      component/assembly would halt all heavy bomber production.  As it was,
>      if a shortage of B-17 engines occurred, B-24 production would continue
>      unaffected.

This is a very interesting question. Could a shortage of a component ever
occur ? I have trouble imagining how this could happen. Is there a
historical precedent ?


>   Finally, it may not have been possible to coerce Boeing to build B-24s
>      or Consolidated to build B-17s.  I'm not sure of the laws in effect
>      during the war, but I am aware that in more than one occasion, when an
>      aircraft manufacturer was asked to produce another company's airframe
>      (North American to build Curtis P-40s for instance) the answer was
>      essentially "No, we have a better idea to offer you."


I may be totally ignorant about wartime capitalism, but did Boeing and
Consolidated make profits out of the war ??
Thanks Steve for the very interesting answers.

Arnaud.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 00:12:31 GMT+1
From:    SYSTEM OPERATOR <system@ABOUIS.FDN.ORG>
Subject: Re: France's Forgotten Past / Dracy

"Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU> writes:

>     Did you ever see the 4-hour documentary called "The Sorrow and
> the Pity" which dealt exclusively with France's relationship to
> Germany during the Occupation?" If not, that is one to see. It won a
> major movie prize in Europe for the best documentary of 1972.

Makes me think,
If you want to read some French without having to return to school,

Henry Amouroux also just finished writing his immense work (about ten
volumes) on this France during the occupation.
A recommended reading and a mine of information.
Also,
"La vie des Francais sous l'Occupation", Henri Amouroux, Robert Laffont.
See also,
"L'Histoire de Vichy", Robert Aron, 1945
"Vichy France", Robert O.Praxton
"Parades and politics at Vichy", R. O.Praxton (Princeton, 1966)
"Militarbefehlshaber in Frankreich 1940-44", Hans Umbreit, 1968
"The New Order and French economy", Alan S.Milward
"La politique de nazification en Alsace", Lothar Kettenacker

If you have limited time, just try "Histoire de la Seconde Guerre Mondiale",
by Pierre Miquel, for a history of the war by a French Historian. I am
reading it at the moment and it has 150 interesting pages on the Fall of
France.

With even more limited time, try Philippe Masson's "Une Guerre Totale",
another history of WWII. Haven't read it, but it is next.

Arnaud.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 19:24:18 -0500
From:    Burt Knight <Burt_Knight.ZIFF-DAVIS%LNGATE@ZCIAS1.ZIFF.COM>
Subject: Re: HIST: Trivia

USS Eagle, 1784 ts, 10 kn, 90 man crew, WIX 327 is the 'Horst Wessel', Hamburg,
1936
Tovarich is of similar size and crew, not listed in the 1980 Weyer's, is the
'Gorch Focke', also Hamburg

Tovarich was sailing in the 80's because she arrived in Boston Harbour with the
Tall Ships.

BWK

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 16:30:03 -0800
From:    David Alvarez <dalvarez@STMARYS-CA.EDU>
Subject: Nazi Escapees

Robert T. Moore> Another one that sat in the same prison with Reder was
Josef Kammler, the head of the Gestapo in Rome.

Herbert Kappler was the Gestapo chief in Rome from 1939 to June 1944,
although technically he was the police attache at the German embassy.
After the German occupation of Rome he was effectively the police chief
of the city until the German withdrawal.  Part of his job was to run
intelligence operations targeted on the Vatican.  He was responsible for
the execution of 335 Italians at the Ardeatine Caves in reprisal for a
bomb attack on a German column in Rome which left 33 Germans dead.

David Alvarez

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 17:47:37 EST
From:    Chris Morton <cmort@HATHCOK.NSHORE.ORG>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Schindler's List

"Robert T. Moore" <nshore!ncoast!usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu!PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU!RTMOORE> writes:

> Hello, Christopher!

Not MY questions actually, someone elses.  I hope he appreciates your
assistance.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 20:26:05 -0500
From:    Thomas Pike <MilArchive@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Russian Aircraft Museum

John Sloan:

Keep up the good work with your tours!

Thomas Pike  (MCS&SMH)

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 19:39:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 10 JAN 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
WEDNESDAY, 10 JANUARY 1945 FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  UC-64, Noorduyn Norseman
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  Mosquito, deHavilland
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): 3 B-24s on an armed photo mission bomb and
photograph Kurabu Airfield on Paramushiru Island, Kurile Islands, scoring
hits on the runway.

  CARIBBEAN (Sixth Air Force): The 32d Fighter Squadron, XXVI Fighter
Command, moves from France Field to Howard Field, Canal Zone with P-39s.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): 2 B-24s bomb the Cap-Saint-Jacques
area of French Indochina. In Burma, 50+ P-51s, P-40s, and P-38s pound various
targets of opportunity throughout the Wanling area and 6 P-40s hit targets of
opportunity in the Muse area. The 25th Fighter Squadron, 51st Fighter Group,
based at Yunnani with P-51s, sends a detachment to operate from Leangshan,
China.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 75 fighter-bombers pound
troop concentrations, supplies, tanks, artillery, and buildings at Kawnglang,
Nampa-chi, Man Namman, Pangkai, Mong Yai, Namhsan, Namyao, Se-ping, Panghai,
and in the Hosi area; 17 P-47s knock out a bridge, damage another at Bawgyo
and 2 others at Ho-kho; 8 P-47s support ground forces in the Si-U battle
sector; 8 others hit supplies and ferry crossing at Ta-mawngtawn. 472
transport sorties are flown to forward bases and frontline areas. The 165th
Liaison Squadron (Commando), 1st Air Commando Group, moves from Kawlin to
Ye-U, Burma with UC-64s and L-5s (a detachment is operating from Inbaung,
Burma).

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 789: 1,119 bombers and 362
fighters are dispatched to attack airfields, rail targets and bridges in
Germany; most attacks are made using PFF methods; they claim 3-0-0 Luftwaffe
aircraft; 10 bombers and 2 fighters are lost:
  1. 429 B-17s are dispatched to hit the Rodenkirchen (31) and Deutz (10)
highway bridges at Cologne, the South (34) and Hohenzollern (52) rail bridges
at Cologne and the marshalling yard at Karlsruhe (105); 20 hit the secondary
target, the Gereon marshalling yard at Cologne; targets of opportunity are
bridges at Duisburg (11) and Oberkassel (21), Dusseldorf (28) and other (33);
some targets hit visually but most by PFF methods; 5 B-17s are lost, 5
damaged beyond repair and 199 damaged; 10 airmen are KIA, 6 WIA and 48 MIA.
  2. 233 B-24s are dispatched to hit highway bridges at Steinbruck (23),
Schonberg (70), Weweler (60) and Dasburg (20); 1 hits Prum, a target of
opportunity; targets are hit using Gee-H; 2 B-24s are damaged beyond repair
and 7 damaged; 3 airmen are WIA.
  3. 458 B-17s are sent to hit the Hangelar Airfield at Bonn (63); Odendorf
Airfield at Euskirchen (98), Osteheim Airfield at Cologne (83) and Gymnich
Airfield (52); 43 hit the secondary target, the marshalling yard at Cologne;
targets of opportunity are the marshalling yards at Euskirchen (8), Belecke
(8) and Duren (12) and other (26); Gee-H is used in bombing with some visual
sightings; 5 B-17s are lost, 11 damaged beyond repair and 140 damaged; 5
airmen are KIA, 15 WIA and 52 MIA.
  4. The bombers are escorted by 137 of 152 P-51s; 6 P-51s are lost and 1
damaged beyond repair.
  5. 123 P-47s and P-51s make a freelance sweep to cover the bombers; they
claim 1-0-0 aircraft in the air and 2-0-0 on the ground; 1 P-47 and 1 P-51 is
lost (1 pilot MIA); 4 P-51s are damaged beyond repair.
  6. 13 of 15 P-51s dive bomb the marshalling yard at Neustadt without loss.
  7. 6 of 8 P-51s escort 2 Mosquitoes on a photo reconnaissance of the Brux,
Czechoslovakia area.
  8. 28 of 32 P-51s fly a scouting mission.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 30+ B-26s sent against
communications center and road bridge abort due to weather; the XIX Tactical
Air Command escorts the B-26s, flies patrols, attacks bridges and other
targets and supports the US III, VIII, XII, and XX Corps in the Saint-Hubert,
Belgium-Bastogne, Belgium-Wiltz, Luxembourg area, in the Diekirch and
Echternach area of Luxembourg and points to the SE.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Weather restricts operations to
photo and weather reconnaissance missions. The 27th and 71st Fighter
Squadrons, 1st Fighter Group, based at Salsola Airfield with P-38s, send a
detachment to operate from Vincenzo Airfield, Italy.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, weather restricts
operations but fighter-bombers effectively attack communications and supply
dumps in the C and N Po Valley; the strikes are concentrated in the N and
around Piacenza, and score nearly 50 rail cuts, along with destruction of 80
motor transports and several trains; fuel and ammunition dumps in the Milan
area are bombed and a 400-foot (122 m) naval vessel at Venice is destroyed;
HQ 64th Troop Carrier Group and the 16th and 17th Troop Carrier Squadrons
move from Ciampino to Rosignano Airfield with C-47s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 30 Guam Island-based B-24s operating in 2
separate formations, bomb airfields on Iwo Jima Island; 2 other B-24s, on
armed reconnaissance, hit airfield on Woleai Atoll, Caroline Islands. Iwo
Jima airfields are hit again on the night of 10/11 Jan by B-24s flying
snooper missions from Guam.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: On Luzon Island,
Philippine Islands, B-24s bomb Grace Park Airfield and warehouse area near
Manila, A-20s and fighter-bombers pound trucks, trains, railroad yards,
railroads, and highways over wide areas of N and S Luzon, and bomb Vigan and
Laoag Airfields. About 60 P-40s bomb and strafe the Galela area on Halmahera
Island. B-25s and P-38s hit Kendari Airfield on Celebes Island. Other B-25s,
A-20s, and fighter-bombers, operating in smaller forces, hit numerous
shipping and communications targets, airfields, and other targets throughout
the Philippine Islands. HQ XIII Fighter Command moves from Sansapor, New
Guinea to Leyte Island. The detachment of the 12th Fighter Squadron, 18th
Fighter Group, operating from Morotai Island with P-38s, returns to base at
Sansapor, New Guinea.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

10/0139Z JAN

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 8 Jan 1995 to 9 Jan 1995
***********************************************

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There are 33 messages totalling 1029 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. TRIVIA: Decks (2)
  2. WEAP:  US Heavy Bomber Comparison
  3. INF: 50 Years Ago - 11-JAN-1945 (2)
  4. INF: USN Chronology 01-10-95
  5. Nazi Escapees (2)
  6. <No subject given> (3)
  7. Invasion of Kyushu / Operation OLYMPIC
  8. 50TH: REACTION TO GERMAN OFFENSIVE
  9. Film "Das Boot" (WAS ?Resources)
 10. Re[2]: TRIVIA: Decks
 11. ?Resources (2)
 12. Re[2]: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")
 13. TRIVIA: Schindler's List (4)
 14. INF: 50 Years Ago - 25-DEC-1944
 15. WHAT IF: Seperate Peace on Eastern Front -- Hitler Repl
 16. WEAP: Preserving vintage CV, BB, etc.
 17. TAC:  Battle of the Bulge
 18. BATTLE OF THE BULG
 19. Inf: 3rd Army Chronology - 11JAN45
 20. Inf: 3rd Army Chronology - 12Jan45
 21. Inf: 3rd Army Chronology - 13Jan45
 22. Olympic Games (2)
 23. Japanese diplomat

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 9 Jan 1995 21:15:39 -0800
From:    Allan_Wotherspoon <awothers@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Decks

In message Mon, 9 Jan 1995 18:01:34 -0600,
  "Tim J. Watts" <TWATTS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU>  writes:

> Hope this doesn't sound too off the wall.  It is my understanding that
> the flight decks of U.S. carriers in the 1930's were covered with wood
> (teak, I think).  If so, and if it was teak (which I think came from
> Southeast Asia, which was occupied by the Japanese), what was used for
> all the new construction during the war and for repairs to existing
> decks?  Was some other wood used, or were the decks really made of
> steel?
>
> TIA
> Tim J. Watts
> Valparaiso University
>

Tim:

All US carriers up to, I believe the Midway class, had wooden decks.  I
think that fir was used.  Orginally they had a mahagony stain, later a stain
the same colour as 20-B Deck Blue was used.

Allan

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Allan J. Wotherspoon (e-mail: awothers@sfu.ca)
Burnaby, B.C. Canada

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 07:43:05 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <newst@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: WEAP:  US Heavy Bomber Comparison

     >Production of both aircraft was maintained basically because the Army
     >Air Force needed all the heavy bombers it could get.  Although it may
     >have been possible to get all of the many factories involved in
     >production of heavy bombers and assemblies to convert to a single
     >design, this would have involved the risk that a shortage of a single
     >component/assembly would halt all heavy bomber production.  As it as,
     >if a shortage of B-17 engines occurred, B-24 production would
     >continue unaffected.

     >>This is a very interesting question. Could a shortage of a component
     >>ever occur ? I have trouble imagining how this could happen. Is
     >>there a historical precedent ?


     >Finally, it may not have been possible to coerce Boeing to build
     >B-24s or Consolidated to build B-17s.  I'm not sure of the laws in
     >effect during the war, but I am aware that in more than one occasion,
     >when an aircraft manufacturer was asked to produce another company's
     >airframe (North American to build Curtis P-40s for instance) the
     >answer was essentially "No, we have a better idea to offer you."


     >>I may be totally ignorant about wartime capitalism, but did Boeing
     >>and Consolidated make profits out of the war ??
     >>Thanks Steve for the very interesting answers.

     >>Arnaud.


     Let's take these in reverse order:

     1.  One of the freedoms that America and the Allies fought for was the
     right to make a fair profit in a free market economy.  We had laws
     against war profiteering, and people did go to jail, but that was for
     using the "war" conditions and shortages to squeeze excess profits out
     of a relationship.  You had better believe that it was the intent of
     Boeing, Douglas, Bell, Northrop, Curtiss, Republic and all other
     companies producing weapons for the military to make a profit out of
     their production.  How else could they be expected to stay in
     business?

     2.  The US Government could not, as other governments have, take over
     a company to insure that it continued in operation.  The best it could
     do, as in the case of the Republic P43 Lancer and the Consolidated
     B-32 Dominator, was to keep paying a company to produce an essentially
     useless aircraft to keep the company alive long enough to produce
     something worthwhile (P-47 and B-36).

     3.  As for part shortages affecting bomber assembly, I can't give any
     WWII examples (I just wasn't around back then) but let me give some
     examples that have affected military procurements that I've been
     involved with.  It will give a flavor of what a war production board
     has to plan against.

     I have seen production of military equipment delayed by strikes
     (probably not much of a consideration during wartime), by plants
     burning down (sabotage was also a threat), by plants being damaged by
     earthquakes, and by the death of a critical employee who maintained
     knowledge that somehow never made it to the drawings.

     While a majority of the heavy bomber subassembly production would have
     been farmed out to several firms, to insure that if one shut down, the
     others could still produce, there are always critical parts where
     because of secrecy, tolerances, advance technology, etc. there are
     only one or two sources of production (i.e. bombsight components,
     gyroscopes, some bearings, etc.).

     A proper war production authority would want to first, diversify the
     production of such critical components as much as possible consistent
     with the availability of skilled labor, production equipment and
     national security, and second, to try to insure that not all weapons
     used for a particular mission were dependent on the same critical
     components.

    Steve L. New
    NEWST@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL
    Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 04:44:37 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 11-JAN-1945

On 11-JAN-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the British 2nd Army sector, units of the 6th Airborne
Division reach St Hubert and make contact with the U.S. VIII Corps. In the
U.S. 1st Army sector, the 84th Division clears Laroche. In the 3rd Army
sector, units of the 87th Division occupy Bonnerue, Pironpre, Vesqueville
and St Hubert. The Germans are withdrawing from the 17th Airborne Division
area in the vicinity of Heropont, Flamierge, Mande St Etienne and
Flamizoulle. The Germans are also retiring from the pocket southeast of
Bastogne. The 6th Armoured Division takes over the area east of Bastogne
formally held by the 4th Armoured Division and attack toward Bras. The 90th
Division overcomes resistance around Trentelhof and advances on Sonlez. The
80th Division takes Bockholz-sur-Sure. The 2nd Cavalry Group clears
Machtum, the Germans last position west of the Moselle.

In the 7th Army sector, the 45th Division clears Althorn, west of the
Bitche salient, but falls back under pressure in the Wildenguth-Saegmuhl-
Reipertsweiler region. The Germans renew their attacks against the 79th
Division's Maginot positions south of Wissembourg. Units of the 14th
Armoured Division, counterattack from Kuhlendorf but are stopped short of
Rittershoffen.

Philippines - The XIV Corps consolidates its positions and meet the
first co-ordinated Japanese resistance. The 40th Division consolidates in
the Dulig-Labrodor-Uyong area and finds Aguilar in the hands of Filipino
guerrillas. In the I Corps sector, the 6th Division finds Filipino
Guerrillas in control of Santa Barbara. Units of the 43rd Division take
Manoag without opposition. The Corps front is rapidly widening and extends
nearly 30 miles from south to north. Kamikazes attack and damage two escort
destroyers.

Fomosa - The 5th Air Force begins small night attacks on Formosa
with B-24's.

Burma - The British IV Corps captures Gangraw and advances rapidly towards
the Irrawaddy.

The Homefront
-------------
Draft Increase - Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson reports that the Army
"measured in terms of effectiveness is under strength" and that the
Selective Service has been asked to raise its March quote from 80,000 to
100,000 men.

State Senator Murdered - State Sen. Warren G. Hooper, R., Albion, Mich.,
has been found shot to death in a burning automobile four miles north of
Springport, Mich. Hooper was a principal witness in a special grand jury
case against three men charged with consipiracy to bribe legislators.

Airliner Crash - An American Airlines plane has crashed, killing all 24
persons aboard, five and a half miles from the Los Angeles, Calif. airport.

Hitler Speaks - London reports that Adolf Hilter told the German people in
a radio broadcast on January 1 that "the people are resolute to fight the
war to victory under any and all circumstances." He said the war will not
end before 1946 because Germany will never capitulate. He further states
"we are going to destroy everybody who does not take part in the common
effort for the country or who makes himself a tool of the enemy."

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 04:00:17 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 01-10-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
01/10 Wed.  United States naval vessels damaged:
             Destroyer WICKER (DD-578), by horizontal bomber,
              Philippine Islands area,
              16 d. 04'N., 118 d. 55'E.
             Destroyer escort LERAY WILSON (DE-414), by suicide
              plane, Philippine Islands area,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             High-speed transport CLEMSON (APD-31), by collision,
              Philippine Islands area,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             Attack transport DUPAGE (APA-41), by suicide plane,
              Philippine Islands area,
              16 d. 17'N., 120 d. 15'E.
             Attack transport LATIMER (APA-152), by collision,
              Philippine Islands area,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             LST 507, by collision, Philippine Islands area,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             LST 610, by suicide boat, Philippine Islands area,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
            Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             Coast defense vessel NO. 45, by submarine PUFFER
              (SS-268), off the Ryukyu Islands,
              20 d. 01'N., 126 d. 34'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <ljewell@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 08:37:13 -0600
From:    "Sue Hattabaugh, Valparaiso University" <SHATTABAUGH@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU>
Subject: Re: INF: 50 Years Ago - 11-JAN-1945

Hello everyone-
Just wanted to thank Jack McKillop and John Davis for the
history postings.  The primary reason I joined this group
was to find out more about my father's experience in
the Philippines, specifically Leyte. It is very helpful
to read the postings and to find out what was going on
during the time my dad was there. He was in the Americal
Division 116th Inf that was responsible for some of
the "mopping up" operations on Leyte where he was
wounded.  His group arrived on Leyte about the 25th Jan and
he was wounded about a week later. Jack and John have made
that time come alive for me. I wanted to publicly thank them
for all the work they do. And all the others who help us
newbies understand that great event.

Happy new year.
Sue
shattabaugh@exodus.valpo.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 08:47:27 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nazi Escapees

Hello, David!

Thanks for the correct first name to Kammler. Sorry about the
confusion.

    All the best.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 08:51:30 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: <No subject given>

Hello, Alfredo!



>    Can anybody help me to find some information about the u-boat
> activities during wwii in gulf of mexico specific in Veracruz port.

    You might try obtaining a copy of "Hitler's Naval War" by Cajus
Bekker. That goes into much detail on Germanb submarine operations
during the war.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 08:55:45 -0600
From:    Mark Parillo <parillo@KSU.KSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Invasion of Kyushu / Operation OLYMPIC

   The story about the mission to sabotage railroad tunnels in the
Japanese home islands is a good one and completely new on me. The tunnels
in question undoubtedly had to be the ones underneath the Shimonoseki
Strait, a narrow shipping channel between Kyushu and Honshu. None of the
other main islands were connected by tunnels.
   The Shimonoseki tunnels, called the Kammon (or Kwammon) Tunnels,
consisted of two parallel tunnels. They were drilled beginning in 1938
and completed in 1941, although the tunnels didn't open for traffic until
the fall of 1942 because subsidiary installations had to be built. At
the peak of traffic in January 1944, the tunnels handled 75 trains per
day in each direction (24 coal trains, 37 trains carrying other cargoes,
and 14 passenger trains). It is estimated that the tunnels cut travel
times between Honshu and Kyushu by one hour for passenger trains and ten
hours for freight trains. Destroying or blocking the tunnels would have
severely disrupted the internal traffic patterns in the home islands,
especially since air attack had left few train ferries afloat in the home
islands by the summer of 1945.
   The Japanese periodically considered building a railway tunnel to
Korea. This was a fantastic scheme, since it would have had to stretch
close to 100 miles at a minimum. But, like so many of the other wild
schemes announced as underway on Radio Tokyo, this one never got off (or
should I say "under"?) the ground.

    - Mark Parillo
      Department of History
      Kansas State University

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 11:28:10 +0100
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <John.Ausland@GMAIL.GAR.NO>
Subject: 50TH: REACTION TO GERMAN OFFENSIVE

  As a follow up on my previous message, here is another excerpt from
Chapter 14 of LETTERS HOME, which contained my reaction at that time
to the German winter offensive:

          Dear Folks, January 11, 1945, Luxembourg

          Sounds to me as though the late German Ardennes offensive
          has somewhat depressed you all. What an inaccurate
          impression to have. Let me give you a few reasons.

          As the war was going, we were only making satisfactory
          progress in the number of Jerries we were killing. This may
          have led to a breakthrough, but maybe not. As things
          developed, we probably inflicted as many casualties on them
          in the Ardennes as any other place.

          To be sure, they stalled our hard won Duren opportunity
          and perhaps others. But as to whether that is good or bad
          remains to be seen. The most they got out of this attack
          was time. The land meant nothing and is being taken back.
          If they hoped to do more, they failed.

          Certainly, if they hoped to discourage our soldiers, they
          failed miserably. You should have watched our men's
          reactions. Many regretted not being more in the direct path
          of the offensive. It was a real opportunity to get Jerry out of
          his hole. As it was, we had to be satisfied with holding the
          left wing of his attack. Surely, no one was the least
          concerned, all being quite confident the push would be
          stopped before it could do much damage.

          We realized the war wasn't over when we made first contact
          with the Germans in Germany. We knew there were several
          fights ahead. Our leaders knew this also. If it wasn't
          recognized, it was by John Q. Public. He was buying civilian
          cars, looking for civilian work, preparing for V-E Day. A few
          men here will suffer for this, but what is done is done.

          The war here will go on indefinitely. At least one more
          difficult fight lies ahead. Perhaps the winter will be spent in
          small attacks to regain lost ground and positions. Maybe a
          big drive can be made before spring. We shall see. Germany
          is not beaten. We have not earned a victory. But don't worry
          about it. Our nation went to war, knowing this. If they
          didn't, let them remember it next time.

          Love, John
          END OF EXCERPT

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 08:42:34 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <gregk@STPAUL.LIB.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Film "Das Boot" (WAS ?Resources)

In reference to "Das Boot" being available in both subtitled & dubbed
versions, I strongly recommend the former as more accurate.  An example
of this is the scene where the correspondent first arrives on board and
is being shown the escape (scuba) gear.  The disparaging remarks about the
gear being of little use while at sea are quite different in the two
versions-- in the subtitled it's because the gear was designed for use
"nur im Ostsee" (i.e. the shallow Baltic Sea) but in the dubbed version
it's said they were designed for use on the Danube River (!!).

Now, I like dramatic license as much as the next guy, but this is going a
bit far......


                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          gregk@stpaul.lib.mn.us

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 09:21:26 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: TRIVIA: Decks

> Hope this doesn't sound too off the wall.  It is my understanding that
> the flight decks of U.S. carriers in the 1930's were covered with wood
> (teak, I think).  If so, and if it was teak (which I think came from
> Southeast Asia, which was occupied by the Japanese), what was used for
> all the new construction during the war and for repairs to existing
> decks?  Was some other wood used, or were the decks really made of
> steel?
>
> TIA
> Tim J. Watts
> Valparaiso University
>
>Tim:
>
>All US carriers up to, I believe the Midway class, had wooden decks.  I
>think that fir was used.  Orginally they had a mahagony stain, later a
>stain the same colour as 20-B Deck Blue was used.
>
>Allan J. Wotherspoon (e-mail: awothers@sfu.ca)
>Burnaby, B.C. Canada

Teak comes into the picture on the Battleships.  I have no sources on the tip of
my fingers, but have always read that teak was needed to plate the decks of the
BBs because the shock waves generated by the big guns would crack hard steel.  I
believe teak is a very dense wood.

This leads back to the original question about supply during the war years,
although not nearly to the extent it would had the carriers all used teak.
According to Dulin, Garzke and Sumrall in "Battleships - US Battleships in
WWII", 2 were launched in 1940, 3 in 1941 (before December 7), 3 in 1942, and 1
each in 1943 and 1944.  Certainly dozens of fewer "deck acres" of wood was
needed for these 10 ships than for all the carriers produced during the same
time.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 11:18:54 -0500
From:    S94005525 Coloniel Daniel Kovacs <S94005525@GC1.GEORCOLL.ON.CA>
Subject: Re: Nazi Escapees

My father, Julius Kovacs was 14 when he was shipped from imely, hungary, to a camp on the borders of germany, and austria.  He, with his brother, and a friend, escaped over the iron curtain, and managed to secure a job overseas.  I am
his son, have been enrolled in the milita, and have acheived the rank of Coloniel.  Please direct me any information available on iron curtain crossings, escapes from concentration camps, and related topics.

Your help is appreciated.

Col. Daniel Kovacs

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 11:24:25 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <gregk@STPAUL.LIB.MN.US>
Subject: Re: ?Resources

I think earlier discussion makes a very good point-- the initial content
may be secondary to its first interest-generating ability.  Getting
students interested enough to pursue this subject is very important.

Along this line, there are several titles which may be timeless enough to
get them started.  UP PERISCOPE and Anne Frank's DIARY OF A YOUNG GIRL
have already been mentioned; a couple of my alltime favorites are

Hans Peter Richter, I WAS THERE

Sven Hassel, THE LEGION OF THE DAMNED

since the protagonists in these are younger, caught in a struggle they
neither understand nor can control, I've found them to be very appealing.

As for movies, well, everyone's got their own favorites, but an older one
from the fifties, DECISION BEFORE DAWN, deserves mentioning.

Hey, they're only suggestions....


                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          gregk@stpaul.lib.mn.us

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 13:02:47 GMT+6
From:    Esaul Zermeno Bautista <EZERMENO@DPED.DPED.UAA.MX>
Subject: <No subject given>

Fecha envio:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 08:51:30 GMT-6
Enviar resp a:  World War II Discussion List <WWII-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
De:             "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Organizacion:   Amarillo College PCAD-ML
A:              Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <WWII-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

Hello, Alfredo!



>    Can anybody help me to find some information about the u-boat
> activities during wwii in gulf of mexico specific in Veracruz port.

    You might try obtaining a copy of "Hitler's Naval War" by Cajus
Bekker. That goes into much detail on Germanb submarine operations
during the war.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry

Hello, Terry !

      I appreciate your help, tanks.

      Alfredo.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 13:44:25 EST
From:    William Lippert <WL1958A@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")

On Mon, 9 Jan 1995 15:49:58 CST SCHERRER, TIM said:
>I don;t know about Panzerschrecks but some repro Panzerfausts, which
>were extra production pieces for "Stalingrad" were being sold by WWII
>Products Ltd in St. Louis for $189, or $199--these are the Rommel
>goggles people if that rings a bell.
>
>************************************************************************
>*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
>*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
>*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
>*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
>*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
>************************************************************************

   I'm very interested in Rommel - what does this mean?  Was someone selling
his original goggles?  I thought they were locked in a house in Swabia, but
that was some 20 years ago.

William Lippert
The American University

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 13:12:02 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: ?Resources

Hello, Greg!


> As for movies, well, everyone's got their own favorites, but an older one
> from the fifties, DECISION BEFORE DAWN, deserves mentioning.

   I second your suggestion above. A great movie with a great plot
and great acting.

    There are others, of course, but Decision Before Dawn is a movie
to see.

    Thanks.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 13:50:55 EST
From:    William Lippert <WL1958A@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Schindler's List

On Mon, 9 Jan 1995 17:47:37 EST Chris Morton said:
>"Robert T. Moore" <nshore!ncoast!usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu!PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU!RTMOORE>
>writes:
>
>> Hello, Christopher!
>
>Not MY questions actually, someone elses.  I hope he appreciates your
>assistance.

    They were my questions and I thank you for answering them.  I guess
I have to do some more studying of my collar and SS ranks.

William Lippert
The American University

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 13:18:11 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: INF: 50 Years Ago - 25-DEC-1944

Hello, Gudmundur!

> Hehe, this is amazing rubbish, Gunther Prien lies entombed at 60 47N  19 13W
> among the rest of his crew. They *might* have been referring to Lt. Otto
> Kretschmer but I think he was in Canada at the time.

    Perhaps Joachim Schepke, who was also killed in action at about
the same time.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 13:23:04 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: WHAT IF: Seperate Peace on Eastern Front -- Hitler Repl

Hello, Emery!


 Thanks for your assistance in this matter.  You and Greg inspired me to
> scour my somewhat diminuative library where I found my only reference to
> von Boeslager in BARBAROSSA by Alan Clark.  As this seems like a
> fascinating account, I will transcribe it for our other subscribers
> shortly, as is my penchant to do so.  ;-)
>
> Thanks again.

    You are very welcome. His brother is still alive and lives in
South Germany. His name is Philipp and was also awarded the Knight's
Cross.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 14:33:56 CCS
From:    Jorge Merino <jem@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: WEAP: Preserving vintage CV, BB, etc.

I was reading the January 95 issue of Sea Classics, and there is a special
article titled "1995 Guide to the Naval & Marine Museums of North America",
as well as many other interesting article, including one about the old
cruiser USS Olympia, and another about a Japanese midget sub, etc.

But in the introduction of the museums listing, they give some bad news:
The light carrier USS Cabot (CVL-28), which returned from Spain after
more than 20 years of service as Dedalo, was about to be converted into
a floating museum; but apparently, some financial problems and bureaucratic
reasons are about to kill her. I think it is a crime to send Cabot to
the scrap torch. Just think that she is the only survivor of the WWII
Independence class light carriers. I hope some other museum association
could save her. She is moored at New Orleans now.

Another sad fact is that USS Inaugural (AM-242), one of the only two
surviving minesweepers of WWII, was lost during the Mississippi floods,
and sank at her mooring place. I don't know if she can be recovered,
but I hope so.

Finally, they mention that USS Savannah, the first nuclear cargo ship,
was removed from her mooring place, and her future disposal is unknown.

On the other hand, there is an association trying to save some of the
Iowa class BBs. The address given in the advertisement is:

Iowa Class Preservation Association
24330 Lenox, Ste. 1, Murrieta, CA 92562
Phone: 909-698-7459

I know that USS New Jersey (BB-62) and USS Missouri (BB-63) are now
moored at Puget Sound, but I don't know anything about USS Iowa (BB-61)
and USS Wisconsin (BB-64). Does anyone of you have info about the
destination of these BBs? Apparently, USS Missouri is close to become
a floating museum.

Does anyone of you know what was the final decision about the preservation
of USS Midway (CV-41)? She would be a nice museum too.

My $0.02,

Jorge Merino

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 13:40:25 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Decks

Hello, Tim!


what was used for
> all the new construction during the war and for repairs to existing
> decks?  Was some other wood used, or were the decks really made of
> steel?

     I know this was answered but, the British used all steel decks
which made their carriers heavier, slower, but more resistant to
battle damage.

    Just a thought to add to your post.

    All the best.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 13:45:50 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: TAC:  Battle of the Bulge

Hello, Terry!

Thanks for the post.


 According to the blurb, Whiting argues
> that Eisenhower deliberately left the Ardennes sector weak to encourage the
> Germans to launch a major offensive in that area.  The goal was to get the
> Germans out of their defensive positions so that they could be destroyed.
> Whiting apparently found difficulty gaining access to US records on the
> background to the battle.

    I think Whiting is reaching for straws to support this
contention. This may be an interpretation, but I think it has little
support. I am certain that Eisenhower would have liked nothing better
than to have the Germans do just that so that they could be
destroyed, but his attention was focused on North Germany and the
Ruhr, not the Ardennes.

    This contention smacks of the same unsubstantiated claim that
Roosevelt wanted us in the war, and deliberately left PH uninformed
as to Japanese intentions.

    My view, for what it's worth.

    Thanks for the post and allowing my two cents' worth on this.

    Terry

 >
> Has anyone seen this book yet?  Any comments?
>
> Terry Lindell
> Department of History
> Wartburg College
> Waverly, Iowa  50677
> lindell@wartburg.edu
>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 13:55:25 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: BATTLE OF THE BULG

Hello, Arnaud!


 Was it the same in the Ardennes, or did American
> intelligence notice nothing ?

    I hope you received the post I made to Ben. That should answer
your question.

    Please remember one thing. Hitler deliberately kept that part of
the front, the Ardennes, deceptively weak. Patrols passed through
each other's lines with impunity and each reported back that the
other was weak. There was no reason for the Allies to think an attack
would occur from the Ardennes, despite the fact that twice before an
attack had. Given the euphoria within the Allied forces, the certain
knowledge that German forces in this area were weak, there was no
reason for the Allies to count on an attack from this area.

    Hope this helps.


    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 15:50:08 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Inf: 3rd Army Chronology - 11JAN45

January 11, 1945
D-Day +219

-Reports persist that the enemy was preparing for an offensive in the
 Saarlautern-Saarbrucken area.

-III Corps 90th Inf Div captures Doncols and Sonlez against heavy
 artillery concentrations. 35th Inf Div captures Lutremangeand adavanced
 over a mile with little resistence.

-101st and 17th Airborne Divs prepare for an attack in the VIII area.

-87th Inf Div continues the attack on the western edge of the bulge,
 capturing Vesqueville and St. Hubert.

-No XIX TAC activity.

-Patton informs his corps' commanders that the supply of K-rations was
 critically low over the whole of the ETO and that this type of ration
 should be supplied only to combat troops.

************

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 16:09:30 -0500
From:    S94005525 Coloniel Daniel Kovacs <S94005525@GC1.GEORCOLL.ON.CA>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Schindler's List

Thank you for the help.  I know that it is hard to obtain this literature
but I should have no trouble obtaining Schindlers List.  Oscar Schindler
was a very good man.  He save alot of innocent people during the haulocost,
but what  I was looking for most where tacticals created by the prisoners
that where sucessful in freeing them from certain doom.

Please reply with any information that may help.
Col. Daniel Kovacs

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 16:04:29 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Inf: 3rd Army Chronology - 12Jan45

January 12, 1945
D-Day +220

-III Corps 6th Armored makes contact with 35th and 90th Inf Divs at Bras
 surrounding Germans which are "mopped up".

-Bad weather precludes any activity by XIX TAC.

-An enemy rocket of an unidentified type lands in an area around a
 semimobile laundry located with the 104th Evac Hospitalin Luxembourg
 injuring 7 men and causing damage to 3 vehicles.

-Responsibility for equiping the 9th Armored Div was delegated to the
 3rd Army.

-50 trucks of clothing were unloaded at Longwy. 5000-6000 snow
 camouflage suits were expected within 3 weeks.

**********

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 15:06:39 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: <No subject given>

Hello, Alfredo!


>       I appreciate your help, tanks.

    Glad to have been of service. You might also try:

        History of the German Navy in World War Two by Erich P.
Von der Porten.


    Hope this helps, too. All the best.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 16:13:50 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Inf: 3rd Army Chronology - 13Jan45

January 13, 1945
D-Day +221

-17th Airborne cuts off the St Hubert-Houffalize highway and captures
 Ruette and Givry.

-Listed in reports of noteworthy air-ground coordination, an VIII Corps
 artillery recon pilot was asked to verify armor moving South into Houffalize.
 The pilot located a column of some 60+ veichles, both armored and GP.
 VIII Corps artillery adjusted and completed a time-on-target
 concentration against the Germans. The pilot also called in
 fighterbombers. Circling the area he also called in artillery on AA
 batteries in the area, on which a pair of 155mm guns opened up.
 Destruction of the enemy was wholesale.

-XIX TAC flew 551 sorties, cutting 25 rail lines, and claiming 137
 vehicles, 168 railroad cars and 40 factories.

-3rd Army assisted in the repair of powerlines throughout Luxembourg.
 70% of Luxembourg was with restored power at this point.

*** Source is Charles Province's _Patton's Third Army, A Chronology_
    Typos are mine. 'Sorry.

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 16:42:49 EST
From:    William Lippert <WL1958A@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Schindler's List

On Tue, 10 Jan 1995 16:09:30 -0500 S94005525 Coloniel Daniel Kovacs said:
>Thank you for the help.  I know that it is hard to obtain this literature
>but I should have no trouble obtaining Schindlers List.  Oscar Schindler
>was a very good man.  He save alot of innocent people during the haulocost,
>but what  I was looking for most where tacticals created by the prisoners
>that where sucessful in freeing them from certain doom.
>
>Please reply with any information that may help.
>Col. Daniel Kovacs


       A little while ago I read in the Post about the Japanese diplomat
to Germany during the Reich years.  Unlike Schindler, who at first was
a self-serving profiteer, the diplomat gave out exit vistas to every single
person he could.  He was signing documents for people to the last minute,
even as the train rode off.  I've probably fudged this story a good deal;
anyone else know the real details?

William Lippert
The American University

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 15:17:05 -0800
From:    Ellen Shepard <ESHEPARD@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Olympic Games

I am looking for information regarding the olympic games that were cancelled during
wwii.  thank you.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 23:32:22 +0000
From:    Nechama Cox <nechama@BOREALIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Japanese diplomat

>       A little while ago I read in the Post about the Japanese diplomat
>to Germany during the Reich years.  Unlike Schindler, who at first was
>a self-serving profiteer, the diplomat gave out exit vistas to every single
>person he could.  He was signing documents for people to the last minute,
>even as the train rode off.  I've probably fudged this story a good deal;
>anyone else know the real details?

I believe this was the post --

>   Another interesting case mentioned some time last year in the Reader's
>Digest of all places was that of a Japanese diplomat attached to the Japanese
>Embassy in Berlin who issued refugee documents to thousands of Jews before
>being recalled. I have a copy that I'll be glad to send you if you'd like.

I have read an article about this man.  Apparently he saved a lot of lives
and was pretty much ex-communicated (for lack of a better word) for doing
so. I think, but I am not sure, that he passed away recently without being
thanked.

Anyone know more?

Nechama Cox

nechama@borealis.com

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 15:58:00 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Schindler's List

Thomas Kenneally, author of the novel SCHINDLER'S ARK (US title)
SCHINDLER'S LIST would be bemused, and amused, to find his fiction-
based-on-fact story discussed so solemnly.   :-)


--

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 20:43:36 -0500
From:    S94005525 Coloniel Daniel Kovacs <S94005525@GC1.GEORCOLL.ON.CA>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

I don't know about the ww2 olympics, but there was an olympic runner
that was denied an award by Adolph Hitler due to his race.

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 9 Jan 1995 to 10 Jan 1995
************************************************

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Status: O

There are 50 messages totalling 1476 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. INF: USN Chronology 01-11-95
  2. INF: 50 Years Ago - 12-JAN-1945
  3. Trivia, Decks (3)
  4. Olympic Games (6)
  5. TRIVIA: Schindler's List
  6. Re[2]: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")
  7. Roechling ammunition
  8. Re[4]: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot") (2)
  9. WEAP: Preserving vintage CV, BB, etc. (3)
 10. TRIV:Roger Waters/Pink Floyd
 11. German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc) (5)
 12. WW II Correspondence Wanted (2)
 13. 50TH: SMITHSONIAN AND HIROSHIMA (3)
 14. JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP? (7)
 15. "Rommel Goggles"
 16. WW II Mysteries
 17. Former German Tall Ships. (2)
 18. German Tall Ships/Raiders
 19. <No subject given> (2)
 20. MISC: Italian trivia
 21. MEDIA: Spitfire Pilot's Burial 53 Years Late
 22. Japanese Military Attempt at Coup
 23. [INF] USAAF 11 JAN 45
 24. [INF] USAAF 12 JAN 45
 25. 11th Armored Div.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 04:00:16 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 01-11-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
01/11 Thu.  United States naval vessel sunk:
             Motor minesweeper YMS-14, by collision, Boston Harbor.
            United States naval vessels damaged, Philippine Islands
             area:
             High-speed transport BELKNAP (APD-34), by suicide plane,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             LST 270, by coastal defense gun,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             LST 700, accidentally by United States naval gunfire,
              16 d. 43'N., 119 d. 58'E.
             LST 918, by coastal defense gun,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <ljewell@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 04:25:34 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 12-JAN-1945

On 12-JAN-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the U.S. 1st Army sector, the 2nd Armoured Division
begins an offensive in the Houffalize-Laroche area, capturing Chabrehez Les
Tailles and Petite Tailles. Units of the 3rd Armoured Division cross the
Langlir River and clears Bois de Cedrogne. The 83rd Division completes the
capture of Petite Langlir and Langlir and gains a bridgehead south of the
Langlir-Ronce River. The 106th Division establishes a bridgehead across the
Ambleve River south of Stavelot. In the 3rd Army sector, the Germans
continue withdrawing. The 87th Division takes Tonny, Amberloup, Lavacherie,
Orreux, Fosset and Sprimont. The 17th Airborne Division recaptures
Flamierge. Units of the 6th Armoured Division captures Wardin. In the 7th
Army sector, the Germans have shifted from an aggressive offensive to a
stubborn defensive in the Bitche salient. Efforts of the 45th Division to
regain ground lost on the 11th are only partly successful. The 14th
Armoured Division attacks to relieve units of the 79th Division in Hatten
and Rittershoffen.

Eastern Front - Soviet forces open a powerful winter offensive. With heavy
artillery support the 1st Ukraine Front leads off, attacking west from the
Sandomierz bridgehead over the Vistula in southern Poland. The battle for
Budapest continues with the Red Army deepening the penetration in the city.

Philippines - The 40th Division takes Port Sual, without a fight and
continues west toward Alaminos. The 37th Division is consolidating its
line; elements move into Bayambang and Urbiztondo without opposition. In I
Corps sector, the 6th Division is ordered to conduct a holding action along
the line Malisiqui-Catablan-Torres while the 43rd Division is strengthened.
On Mindoro, the the 21st Infantry assembles at Pinamalayan for a drive on
Calapan where the Japanese are now concentrated. Guerrilla patrols reach
Wawa, on the north coast near Abra de Ilog.

South China Sea - TF 38 makes a surprise air attack on Japanese shipping
off French Indochina and on airfields and shore installations from Saigon
north to Tourane. The TF destroys some 40 ships and damages others.

Burma - In the XV Corps sector, the 3rd Commando Brigade lands on the
Arakan coast at Myebon and establishes a firm beachheard.

The Homefront
-------------
New Senator - Frank P. Briggs, Democrat from Macon, Mo. has been appointed
to the U.S. Senate to serve the remaining two years of the term of Harry S.
Truman, who will become Vice President on January 20th.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 07:43:51 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <newst@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Trivia, Decks

     >Hello, Tim!


     >what was used for
     >> all the new construction during the war and for repairs to existing
     >> decks?  Was some other wood used, or were the decks really made of
     >> steel?

     >I know this was answered but, the British used all steel decks
     >which made their carriers heavier, slower, but more resistant to
     >battle damage.

     >Just a thought to add to your post.

     >All the best.

     >Terry


     There were advantages and disadvantages to steel decks.  They would
     weather the power of smaller, non armor-piercing explosives better
     than wood, but would act to contain the power of an armor-piercing
     explosive below decks, thereby multiplying the internal damage to the
     ship.

     Wooden decks didn't contain below-deck explosions to near the same
     extent, and, depending on the level of damage to the flight deck,
     could be repaired at sea more easily than a steel deck could.


    Steve L. New
    NEWST@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL
    Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 07:48:21 CST
From:    Robert Hohlt <rhohlt@MGM.SAIC.COM>
Subject: Re: Trivia, Decks

All,

Where did I read that the British Aircraft Carriers because of their
steel decks turned into floating ovens when the ships were operating
in the tropical climates with that sun beating down on them?

Robert Hohlt, Jr.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 06:18:44 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <RIEGSECKER@UPS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

>From:         S94005525 Coloniel Daniel Kovacs <S94005525@GC1.GEORCOLL.ON.CA>
>Subject:      Re: Olympic Games
>
>I don't know about the ww2 olympics, but there was an olympic runner
>that was denied an award by Adolph Hitler due to his race.

You may be thinking of Jesses Owens and Ralph Metcafe (I think that's
right) in the 1936 Olympics.  Owens won four medals and set several
records, but Hitler refused to present the medals.  Owens was given the
medals, he just wasn't presented them by Hitler.



John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

riegsecker@ups.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:21:19 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Schindler's List

Hello, William!

Sorry about the confusion, and I am glad I was able to help.

All the best.

As ever,


Terry

>     They were my questions and I thank you for answering them.  I guess
> I have to do some more studying of my collar and SS ranks.
>
> William Lippert
> The American University
>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:23:11 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")

Hello, William!


>    I'm very interested in Rommel - what does this mean?  Was someone selling
> his original goggles?  I thought they were locked in a house in Swabia, but
> that was some 20 years ago.

    The Rommel goggles are actually British. He found that the
British goggles were better than the German in that they allowed for
better all-round vision while wearing them, as opposed to the German
"eye-piece" style.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:33:13 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Roechling ammunition

Hello, Mike!

You are quite welcome. I was also fascinated by the info on this type
of ammunition, and it would have been interesting to see what effects
it would have had on other targets had it been used.

I appreciate your postings, Mike. They are always very informative.

All the best for a great New Year 1995, and please stay in touch.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:41:54 CST
From:    "SCHERRER, TIM" <AD16@NEMOMUS.BITNET>
Subject: Re[4]: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")

Ahh--no--these are the british sand goggles that Rommel wore on his
visor cap.  Actually a pretty common item.  TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:50:38 CST
From:    "SCHERRER, TIM" <AD16@NEMOMUS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Preserving vintage CV, BB, etc.

I've posted this before--the USS Inaugrial at St. Louis sank and
disappeared--no one seems to know what happened to it--Maybe Jesse
Carnes in Louisiana can keep an eye out for it as is goes out the mouth
of the Mississippi---she was lost in July or August of '93.

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:00:59 CCS
From:    Jorge Merino <jem@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Preserving vintage CV, BB, etc.

> I've posted this before--the USS Inaugrial at St. Louis sank and
> disappeared--no one seems to know what happened to it

I understand that before that incident, USS Inaugural was carefully
and beautifully restored to her original WWII configuration and camo.
The other surviving WWII minesweeper, USS Hazard (AM-240, I believe),
is also beautifully restored. Both are Admiral class minesweepers, I
think. Hope USS Inaugural can still be recovered....

Does anyone of you know what future was decided for USS Cabot (CVL-28)?
I hope some association will take the wheel and preserve her, as she
is the last specimen of her class. Maybe the Intrepid museum association?

Jorge Merino

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:07:12 -0500
From:    Kevin Kamphaus <kamphaus@PETSYS.AE.GE.COM>
Subject: TRIV:Roger Waters/Pink Floyd

Several months ago(6?) there was some discussion about Roger Waters of Pink
Floyd fame. The basic thread was about his father and the content of some of his
lyrics pertaining to war. I finally got my Pink floyd book back after about 18
months and this is what it says:

"Eric Fletcher Waters, however, was long dead-gunned down in 1944 in Italy.
Waters senior was only thirty when he died, slain along with forty thousand
other British soldiers in a reckless British campaign to capture the bridgehead
of Anzio from the Nazis.  His third child, George Roger Waters, had been born
only a few months before, on September 9, 1943. One need look no further for the
original source of the chip on the shoulder that marked Waters throughout his
years with the Floyd-to say nothing of the militant antimilitarism that
increasingly cauterized his song lyrics. In Water's own terminology, the absence
of his father amounted to the first-and the worst-brick in his wall."

>From "Saucer full of Secrets  The Pink Floyd Odyssey" by Nicholas Schaffner
copyright 1991 Harmony Books  Reprinted without permission. Typos are mine.

If anyone is interested in Pink Floyd, I highly recommend this book. It is very
good.

Kevin Kamphaus
Kamphaus@petsys.ae.ge.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 09:06:36 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <gregk@STPAUL.LIB.MN.US>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc)

Checking both Frederick Emmmons' THE ATLANTIC LINERS: 1925-1970
(Bonanza, 1976) and Nicholas T Cairis' PASSENGER LINERS OF THE WORLD
SINCE 1893 (revised edition, Bonanza, 1979) I find no reference to any
German liner having been seized by the US or any other Allied power at
either the outbreak of the war or during wartime.

A number of liners did see wartime service with the Kriegsmarine, as
troop transports, barracks ships, and Baltic evacuation vessels; several
were lost (bombs, mines, torpedoes) and a couple ended up in Allied hands
AFTER the war, but not during.

The US DID use former German vessels during WW2, but these were liners
and auxiliary cruisers that had been seized from Germany during the First
World War; a good list of these appears in David H Grover's US ARMY SHIPS
AND WATERCRAFT OF WORLD WAR II (Naval Institute Press, 1987).

Anyone interested in these?

(and in case anyone's interested, yes, the Royal Romanian Merchant Marine
DID serve during the war; one of its finest coastal steamers was
outfitted as an auxiliary minelayer....but I digresss)


                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          gregk@stpaul.lib.mn.us

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:39:28 EST
From:    Roger Coon <coon@CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc)

I believe that I recall correctly that 3 German liners were to be
converted to aircraft carriers along with an unfinished heavy cruiser.
Does anyone know if any work was done and have sketches been published
anywhere?
As always, thanks in advance,
Brad Coon

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 07:38:30 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc)

>
> Checking both Frederick Emmmons' THE ATLANTIC LINERS: 1925-1970
> (Bonanza, 1976) and Nicholas T Cairis' PASSENGER LINERS OF THE WORLD
> SINCE 1893 (revised edition, Bonanza, 1979) I find no reference to any
> German liner having been seized by the US or any other Allied power at
> either the outbreak of the war or during wartime.
>
> A number of liners did see wartime service with the Kriegsmarine, as
> troop transports, barracks ships, and Baltic evacuation vessels; several
> were lost (bombs, mines, torpedoes) and a couple ended up in Allied hands
> AFTER the war, but not during.

Greg - Did you by any chance see any specific mention of the Bremen? What
started all this is that I saw a show the other night about liners in general
and they had a part about the Bremen. I was just wondering what might have
happened to her during the war. I sure hope she was not sunk.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:03:37 -0500
From:    Jim Delande <JIMD@DELPHI.COM>
Subject: WW II Correspondence Wanted

Greetings to all,

Aspiring playwright is seeking letters from wives, girlfriends, mothers,
sisters, and daughters of World War II servicemen. In particular,
correspondence describing the conditions at home, how the contributions
of women assisted in the war effort, along with women's fears and hopes
about their loved ones safe return. Suggestions regarding appropriate
literature containing this type of correspondence would also be welcome.
This research will be used as the basis for the development of a musical
production. If you have any correspondence you would like to share,
your reply would be greatly appreciated. In deference to the members of
this list, please respond via private email. Those respondents who are
interested in receiving further information regarding this production
should indicate this in your reply.

Thank you in advance for your assistance!

Jim Delande
jimd@delphi.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:28:49 -0500
From:    S94005525 Coloniel Daniel Kovacs <S94005525@GC1.GEORCOLL.ON.CA>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

I am curious how hitler had anything to do with the assigning of medals during
the olympics in the first place?  Was there not an olympic committee to deal
with awards?

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:21:03 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <MFY@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")

        I vaguely recall reading somewhere that Rommel initially nabbed a pair
of Italian perspex goggles, the kind you see on the Italian "sun helmet" worn
by Bersaglieri and others in North Africa (part of standard Italian tropical
uniform).  Can anyone out there substantiate or debunk this??

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich  (interested in even the most menial details about the
Italians)

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 06:22:34 +0100
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <John.Ausland@GMAIL.GAR.NO>
Subject: 50TH: SMITHSONIAN AND HIROSHIMA

  FOR MIKE FETTERS
  I read with interest your message about the Smithsonian and the
Hiroshima exhibit.  It is certainly understandable that the management
is concerned about what happened, and I am glad to see this.
  As you may know, I am a WWII veteran.  I have followed with great
interest the conflict over the exhibit.  It is only a part of the
problem of coming to terms with how to commemorate WWII.  I have noted
recently that the Japanese have asked not to be invited to the
September 2 event to commemorate the end of the war.  This is
regreable but understandable, given that Japanese have done so little
to reconcile themselves to their history.
  The Germans are also struggling with this question, and it will be
interesting to see how they come out.  Their task is a bit easier,
since they have done a better job than the Japanese of recognizing
what happened during the Nazi regime.
  As far as the US is concerned, there is clearly a generational
conflict here.  Not only is WWII two ancient history for most young
Americans, but the postwar period was complicated by the Viet Nam war.
  There is, however, another factor, which is more complicated.
Having a son who teaches at a university, I have followed with
particular interest the complex struggle over how to view our society
and history.  This has clearly found its way into the Smithsonian.
  I can illustrate this with an anecdote.  A person I know has some
business with the Smithsonian.  I asked this person to ask the people
working there what they thought about the Hiroshima affair.  Their
reply was, "Tell him that we have taken the Smithsonian away from his
generation and do not intend to give it back."  This was said at
dinner and partly in jest, but only partly.  After some discussion,
the Smithsonian people agreed that the staff at the Air and Space
Museum had "gone too far."
  From my point of view, the struggle over Hiroshima is healthy, and
there is merit in both points of view.  The use of the bombs against
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were terrible events, which happily have not
(yet at least) been repeated.  At the same time, the war did end
promptly after they were dropped, and Ben Frank and I did not find
ourselves wading ashore in Japan.  (What would have happened had they
not been used is a matter for speculation.)
  On the other hand, Hiroshima was followed by a terrifying build up
of nuclear weapons.  Having been involved both in our nuclear planning
and our efforts to bring this under control through the SALT process,
I consider the extent of this buildup both insane and unnecessary.
  It is proper that the Smithsonian draw attention to what happened at
Hiroshima and thereafter.  It should, as it is apparently now doing,
also remind people of what happened before Hiroshima.
  What is less clear to me is whether it is reminding people of the
alternatives.  I have in mind specifically the following: suppose that
after Hiroshima and Nagasaki the Japanese military had prevailed and
the war had continued.  No one writing a scenario for that can come to
a happy conclusion.  For had the war continued, Hiroshima and Nagasaki
would now be seen as relatively minor events in the destruction
of Japan and the death of a great many Americans.
  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo, Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:32:48 -0500
From:    S94005525 Coloniel Daniel Kovacs <S94005525@GC1.GEORCOLL.ON.CA>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc)

Does anybody have any information on the long term exposure to radiation
caused from exposure to fallout from the hiroshima H-Bombing?

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 13:04:46 EST
From:    Paul Gregor <PGREGOR@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Subject: Re: 50TH: SMITHSONIAN AND HIROSHIMA

Somewhere, Lost in all the shuffle is the fact that conventional incendiary
raiding was doing far more damage-- the bomb evidently brought the notion to
the high command in Japan that we could now cause this destruction on a
single plane basis, even though we only had a few nuclear bombs at the time...
people who witness one of the bombings (i forget which ) saw the b-29 and
because there were only it and another for observation, thought it was a
recon mission...


                                                  Paul Gregor

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 13:21:36 -0500
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <sep@TVSS2.COMMNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

Coloner David Kovacs asks;

>I am curious how hitler had anything to do with the assigning of medals during
>the olympics in the first place?  Was there not an olympic committee to deal
>with awards?

There is much about the present olympics that derives from the 1936 (or was
it 1938) olympics.

According to the book "The Nazi Olympics" (forgot the author) the olympic
song, and the tradition of running the flame from Greece were started then
for the purposes of glorifying the Nazi regime. OF course when Jesse Owens
showed Hitler up, he was quick to downplay the games importance.

Someone out there correct me if I'm wrong

                                                                Steve
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - sep@trctc.commnet.edu |"Life may be a drag...
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |    But it sure beats the
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |       only known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 19:44:09 +0100
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <John.Ausland@GMAIL.GAR.NO>
Subject: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

I have read somewhere that the Japanese military attempted to prevent
Japan's surrender, even though the Emporer had ordered it.  Can anyone
provide me with some details on this?

Regards, John Ausland

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:06:05 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <riegsecker@UPS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

>I am curious how hitler had anything to do with the assigning of medals during
>the olympics in the first place?  Was there not an olympic committee to deal
>with awards?

He didn't.  Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he personally
presented the medals to some of the winners, but refused to do that for the
black runners.


John Riegsecker                                 (206) 756-3566
Dept of Mathematics and Computer Science        riegsecker@ups.edu
University of Puget Sound

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 14:37:24 EST
From:    Brian Nicklas <NASAD003@SIVM.SI.EDU>
Subject: "Rommel Goggles"

*** Resending note of 01/11/95 14:32
To: WWII    --CMSNAMES

From: Brian Nicklas
Subject: "Rommel Goggles"
WWII Ltd in St Louis, MO advertised these British Sand Goggles
years ago as "Rommel Goggles" using a photo of Rommel
wearing them atop the bill of his officers hat.
One of the Rommel bios described Rommel as having spotted
them among some supplies found during an advance in N Africa
His comment was said to have been,
"Booty - Permissable for even a general.  I will take them."
Seen in a lot of photos since then.  I do not have
the citation or a date this took place, sorry.
A few other Afrika Korps books with heavy use of illustrations
show German troops wearing these British goggles, probably
for the reason prev. mentioned - wider range of vision than the
small German sand/dust goggles.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 14:41:21 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <paa5137@DPSC.DLA.MIL>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Preserving vintage CV, BB, etc.

In reply to the mail from <jem@VNET.IBM.COM>...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Much deleted
>
>I know that USS New Jersey (BB-62) and USS Missouri (BB-63) are now
>moored at Puget Sound, but I don't know anything about USS Iowa (BB-61)
>and USS Wisconsin (BB-64). Does anyone of you have info about the
>destination of these BBs? Apparently, USS Missouri is close to become
>a floating museum.
>
>Does anyone of you know what was the final decision about the preservation
>of USS Midway (CV-41)? She would be a nice museum too.
>
>My $0.02,
>
>Jorge Merino
>
Jorge,

The USS Iowa and the USS Wisconsin are berthed at the
Philadelphia Naval Base.  The base and the shipyard are slated
to close in 1996, when the overhaul of the USS John F. Kennedy
is completed.

There are rumors that the City of Philadelphia and the various
private concerns considering the shipyard site for commercial
use want to use the two battleships as display with the Inactive
Reserve ships berthed just inside the main gate.  But, doing so
means that the channel would have to be dredged to allow the
ships into that berthing site.

We will just have to wait and see about their fate as the time
for the closure of Naval Base and Shipyard draws closer.

Jim

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        jirwin@dpsc.dla.mil
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 21:40:38 +0100
From:    Allan Myrvang <Amyrvang@BBB.NO>
Subject: WW II Mysteries

Dear Terry,

Thanks for your answer, but allow me to follow up this with some more
questions. First the context :

>
>>I (Allan Myrvang) have heard
>> that this is true, but I cannot believe it. His intentions being
>that
>> Hitler would do the chores for him in Germany as well as Europe,
>and
>> when the conditions were ripe, then he would attack not only Germany,
>> but all Western-European countries. Can this be true?
>
>Robert T. Moore answers :
>
>    Yes and no. Stalin had feared this tactic would be used against
>him by the Western Allies in an attempt to get him or Germany to
>fight each other and then step in after all was over.
>


According to a Soviet general (GRU),who under the pseudonym of Viktor
Suvorow
has written the book "The Icebreaker -- Hitler in Stalin's
Calculations",
Stalin first helped Hitler, and then drove him into a war he was not by
far
ready to wage. The book is perhaps the best book I have ever read, but
is it
reliable?

Allan

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:54:24 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc)

On January 20, 1945, a Soviet submarine sank the German liner,
WILHELM GUSTLOFF, in the Baltic Sea. More than 6000 soldiers and
civilian refugees were drowned, the worst single maritime disaster
of the Second World War.

S.A.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:56:56 EST
From:    Frozen In Western Michigan!! <BWERNER@IST01.FERRIS.EDU>
Subject: Former German Tall Ships.

This is coming from hazy recollection, but isn't the Tall Ship
<something> Conrad, or Conrad <Something> the same ship that serves a
training function to the Norwegian Navy today (well, when I saw it in
1968, anyway), and was the star of the '60s movie "Windjammer?"

As I recall, it also had a German Navy past.

Bruce.

B. L. Werner
Big Rapids, Michigan
Where nothing is big or rapid.
BWerner@IST01.Ferris.Edu

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 13:00:50 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: WW II Correspondence Wanted

Jim Delande...
        In the event you have not already done so, you could benefit by
reading:

                THE GOOD WAR, by Studs Terkel
                WARTIME, by Paul Fussell
                LOVE, SEX, & WAR, by John Costello


Regards -- Sidney.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:00:48 EST
From:    Frozen In Western Michigan!! <BWERNER@IST01.FERRIS.EDU>
Subject: German Tall Ships/Raiders

Now my interest is jogged, besides the (current) Eagle, were there
any German Tall Ships used as "raiders," a la "Atlantis?"

Bruce.

(Hmmm....  Before anyone calls me on my last post, the name Christian
Raditch now comes to mind for the Norwegian Tall Ship that starred in
"Windjammer.")  (Okay, did it have a Nazi past?)

Bruce (again)

B. L. Werner
Big Rapids, Michigan
Where nothing is big or rapid.
BWerner@IST01.Ferris.Edu

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:24:30 -0500
From:    S94005525 Coloniel Daniel Kovacs <S94005525@GC1.GEORCOLL.ON.CA>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

I am sorry about the bad translation of my name, but I was
using an old (vacuum tube driven?) vax unix system.  I have read
in an article, plus on my dish (channel G4 21) Arts + Entertainment
is having a program in the next week or so relating to pre 40's olympic
games, which I will try to catch.

Many thanks,
Col. Daniel Kovacs

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:19:02 GMT+6
From:    Esaul Zermeno Bautista <EZERMENO@DPED.DPED.UAA.MX>
Subject: <No subject given>

Fecha envio:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 15:06:39 GMT-6
Enviar resp a:  World War II Discussion List <WWII-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
De:             "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Organizacion:   Amarillo College PCAD-ML
A:              Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <WWII-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

Hello, Alfredo!


>       I appreciate your help, tanks.

    Glad to have been of service. You might also try:

        History of the German Navy in World War Two by Erich P.
Von der Porten.


    Hope this helps, too. All the best.

    Terry

    Hello Terry !

          Thanks for you information, and  I have another question,
do you know were I could find some photograps about the battleship
Bismark , schemes and colors that were used by this ship.

    Thanks in advance.

    Alfredo.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:11:08 -0500
From:    Barone <m1b@SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: MISC: Italian trivia

Mike Yaklich <MFY@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU> writes:
> (interested in even the most menial details about the Italians)

        When I visited my folks over Christmas, I asked my father about
his stint in the Italian Army.  He dug out some old photos and showed
them to me.  He was born in 1922 and didn't join the Army until 1941
when he was 19.  He showed me some photos of himself and his buds that
were dated 1940 and they all seemed to be in uniforms.  He explained
that he was in the Fascist Youth and the photos were taken at their
one-month-per-year training camp.  His Fascist uniform had baggy pants
and a dark green tunic (it reminded me of Afrika Korp long pants and
tunic but darker).  Then he showed me his Army photos with his snazzy
uniform.  He then mentioned what happened to some of his friends in the
photos.  I took a few of these photos with me, so I may be able to scan
them in (I'm not sure what equipment is available at my site) and perhaps
some generous ftp site could make them available if there's any interest.
There's nothing too exciting in the photos -- just some guys mugging it
up for the camera, rarely with any equipment with them.
--
Joe Barone
m1b@ssd.ray.com
But my name is *Babara*!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:36:35 EST
From:    Cassady Craft <CCRAFT@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

John, I cannot think of anything like a coup right offhand, but there are
several documented instances of Japanese servicemen continuing the fight
after the announcement was made that there would be a cease-fire.  For
instance, Sakai tells of shooting down a B-29 in a night mission after the
announcement (why would a B-29 be flying--leaflets?) in _Samurai_.  I believe
that Admiral Ukagi's suicide mission may have been after the announcement,
_The Last Kamakazi_ should confirm this.  Also, Hoyt's _Japan at War_ mentions
the sailing of submarines and suicide boats after the announcement.  I would
not be surprised if Gordon Prange (et al) has dealt with either coup or these
types of missions, although he may have only worked on Pearl Harbor and Midway
in his research.  As for the sources above, I must add a disclaimer because
of my growing uncertainty as to the veracity of my memory:  "I could be
wrong!" (and I hope if I am that someone closer to their sources will correct
me if I am).

Cassady Craft
e-mail CCRAFT@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
or
CCRAFT@LANL.GOV

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 14:12:16 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: MEDIA: Spitfire Pilot's Burial 53 Years Late

(From Weekly Telegraph, Jan 1/1995)

LAW DEFIED TO GIVE PILOT A FUNERAL

A military enthusiast who illegally dug up the body of a Battle of
Britain Spitfire pilot has ensured that the airman will be given a
full military funeral 53 years after his death, a court was told.
        Mark Kirby was given an absolute discharge at Ashford, Kent
(England) after admitting to a breach of the 1986 Protection of
Military Remains Act, by tampering with the body of Sgt John Gilders
without a licence.
        Kirby was said to have acted with the support of the pilot's
family, who had tried for 53 years to locate him, despite being told by
the Ministry of Defence that he had baled out over the English Channel
and drowned.
        In fact, Sgt Gilders, who fought in the Battle of Britain with
22 Squadron and later with 41 Squadron, had crashed into a field near
Canterbury in February 1941, a week after he became engaged to be married.
        In April 1994, Kirby and a group of amateur archeologists traced
the exact spot where the pilot was still buried in the aircraft's
wreckage. Still wearing his RAF uniform, the pilot's remains were removed
with the consent of the landowner and Sgt Gilder's brother and sister.
        The action was condemned by the Royal Air Force as "illegal and
distasteful", and also was criticized by some war veterans. But the RAF
confirmed after the court hearing that Sgt Gilders would now qualify for
a burial with full military honours.
        The defence lawyer told the court, "Sgt Gilders was a man to feel
proud of, and Mr Kirby followed what he believed to be the right course
of action, not knowing he was breaking the law, so that his [Gilder's]
sacrifice was not in vain.
        Kirby said he would continue to help families discover where their
relatives lay. "I know of three or four airmen who are sill lying in the
ground not 20 minutes away from this courtroom, without a proper funeral.
I will try to help the families of these airmen, but in future I will work
alongside the MoD."



--

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 14:22:34 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

The best private collection of historical information about the
Olympic Games Society is held by:

        SPORTS LIBRARY
        FIRST INTERSTATE BANK ATHLETIC FOUNDATION
        2141 West Adams Blvd. (P.O. Box 60310)
        Los Angeles, CA 90060.

You might also wish to contact:

        UNITED STATES OLYMPIC COMMITTEE
        1750 BOULDER STREET,
        COLORADO SPRINGS, CO 80909
        tel: (303) 632-5551


Good hunting -- Sidney Allinson.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 17:34:15 -0500
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <sep@TVSS2.COMMNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Former German Tall Ships.

B. L. Werner asks;

>This is coming from hazy recollection, but isn't the Tall Ship
><something> Conrad, or Conrad <Something> the same ship that serves a
>training function to the Norwegian Navy today (well, when I saw it in
>1968, anyway), and was the star of the '60s movie "Windjammer?"

>As I recall, it also had a German Navy past.

The Joseph Conrad has been at Mystic Seaport in Mystic CT for fifteen years
or more. IT was once called the "Georg Stag" or some such name before the
museum aquired it.

While it is in the water and used mostly for cadet housing, I can't remember
ever seeing or hearing of it sailing since they put it on display. It WAS
restored about five years ago tho...

As Mike from UCONN will tell you, it is one of three major vessels in the
Mystic Seaport collection, along with the L.A. Dunton, and the good old
Charles W. Morgan. Of course there are scores of other historical ships and
boats there but I'd better get lost before I turn into a commercial...

Cheers!                                                         Steve

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - sep@trctc.commnet.edu |"Life may be a drag...
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |    But it sure beats the
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |       only known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 18:09:43 -0500
From:    Burt Knight <Burt_Knight.ZIFF-DAVIS%LNGATE@ZCIAS1.ZIFF.COM>
Subject: Re: Trivia, Decks

One thing I remember reading was that when the British Fleet sent their
carriers to the Pacific in 1945, they became PART of a US task force and a
Kamikaze attacked one of the carriers with a 500 kG bomb. They hosed off the
wreckage and there was a one inch deep dent in the flight deck where the plane
hit. No other damage. A US carrier could have been put out of action for
several weeks until repairs were done. The Brits just kept going... BWK

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 09:23:12 +1000
From:    Derek Monz <gldrm@JCU.EDU.AU>
Subject: <No subject given>

unsubsribe Derek monz

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 18:47:41 -0500
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <sep@TVSS2.COMMNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

Cassady Craft writes:

>John, I cannot think of anything like a coup right offhand, but there are
>several documented instances of Japanese servicemen continuing the fight
>after the announcement was made that there would be a cease-fire.  For
>instance, Sakai tells of shooting down a B-29 in a night mission after the
>announcement (why would a B-29 be flying--leaflets?) in _Samurai_.  I believe
>that Admiral Ukagi's suicide mission may have been after the announcement,
>_The Last Kamakazi_ should confirm this.  Also, Hoyt's _Japan at War_ mentions
>the sailing of submarines and suicide boats after the announcement.  I would
>not be surprised if Gordon Prange (et al) has dealt with either coup or these
>types of missions, although he may have only worked on Pearl Harbor and Midway
>in his research.  As for the sources above, I must add a disclaimer because
>of my growing uncertainty as to the veracity of my memory:  "I could be
>wrong!" (and I hope if I am that someone closer to their sources will correct
>me if I am).

I seem to recall back in the 60's of the emergance of a lone Japanese
soldier from some obscure pacific isle who didn't beleive the war was
over. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood that this was not the
first such incident. Perhaps some of the more qualified members can pick
up on this.
                                                        Steve

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - sep@trctc.commnet.edu |"Life may be a drag...
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |    But it sure beats the
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |       only known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 18:58:47 EST
From:    Paul Gregor <PGREGOR@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

The soldiers you asked about did hold out--There was one who lasted until
the 70's, one Hiroo Onada (although the first name may be spelled incorectly)
He thought all attempts to talk him in were tricks... Also the last air to
air kill of world war 2 was scored by a b-32 (thats correct) on a japanese
aircraft that came up to attack after the surrender-- according to a tour
guide at the NASM restoration facility in suitland Md. --by the way
onada's  book is called, aptly, No Surrender



                                            Tally Ho!

                                             Paul Gregor
                                             Kent State

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 18:27:49 -0600
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <TWATTS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Japanese Military Attempt at Coup

(Disclaimer: I don't have the book in front of me and it has been some time
since I read it, but I'm pretty sure I have the right author and title.)

In John Toland's book, THE RISING SUN, he devotes a considerable amount of
space to the activities of some members of the Army after Hiroshima and
their attempt to prevent the surrender.  They attempted to assassinate
most members of the government that they felt favored surrendering.  The
radio address by the Emperor was apparently an attempt to prevent the
deaths of most of the government (at least in part).  Toland also spends
a lot of time looking at assassinations by officers of the Army before
Pearl Harbor, against government leaders who did not favor their policies.

Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 19:35:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 11 JAN 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 11 JANUARY 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-26, Douglas Invader
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  F-13, Boeing Superfortress
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-61, Northrop Black Widow

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): In the Kurile Islands, 3 B-24s on an armed
reconnaissance to Suribachi on Paramushiru Island, bomb NW of Taro Lake; 5
B-25s hit Kotani Shima.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): In Burma, 5 B-25s damage a bridge at
Wan Mai-Lo; 12 fighter-bombers hit targets of opportunity NE of Wanling, 7
drop napalm on targets of opportunity NE of Muse, and 11 attack targets of
opportunity SE of Wanting, China and in the E end of the Wanting River
valley.

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force):  Mission 27: 47 B-29s out of Calcutta, India
are dispatched to bomb 2 large drydocks at Singapore, Malaysia; 25 hit the
primary targets; around 15 others bomb Penang Island, Malaysia, Mergui,
Burma, and various targets of opportunity; they claim 6-1-17 Japanese
aircraft; 2 B-29s are lost.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 12 P-47s support ground
forces in the Si-U and Namhkam sectors. 3 others strafe trucks between
Namhkam and Selan; troop concentrations, vehicles, artillery pieces, supply
areas, and general enemy movement are pounded by 80+ fighter-bombers; 12
B-25s bomb storage buildings in the Lashio area. 509 transport sorties are
flown to forward areas. The 6th Fighter Squadron (Commando), 1st Air
Commando Group, based at Asansol, India, sends a detachment to operate from
Cox's Bazar, India with P-47s.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 790: 2 B-17s and 4 of 6
B-24s drop leaflets in Belgium during the night.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): About 120 A-20s, A-26s, and B-26s
attack communications centers and rail bridges in Belgium and Germany;
fighters escort the bombers, hit an ammunition dump at Mayen, Germany, and
patrol areas around Malmedy, Belgium and NE of Trier, Germany.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Bad weather limits operations.
P-38s fly reconnaissance and reconnaissance escort missions.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy during the night of 10/11
Jan, A-20s attack targets of opportunity in the W Po Valley; clearing weather
during the day enables an increase of fighter and fighter-bomber attacks in
the Po Valley and in the US Fifth Army battle area in the N Apennines; many
ammunition and fuel dumps, rail lines, trains, and vehicles are pounded, and
an alcohol refinery at Piacenza is severely damaged.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 23 B-24s from Saipan Island pound airfields on
Iwo Jima Island; the bombing of Iwo Jima is continued during the night of
11/12 Jan, by 3 B-24s flying individual snooper strikes from the Mariana
Islands. The 6th Night Fighter Squadron, VII Fighter Command (attached to
318th Fighter Group), moves from Kipapa, Hawaii to East Field, Saipan
Island (a detachment has been operating from Saipan with P-47s and P-61s
since Jun 44; a detachment operates from Kipapa, Hawaii until May 45).

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force): The 3d Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron
(Very Heavy), 311th Photographic Wing (attached to XXI Bomber Command),
moves from Saipan Island to Guam Island with F-13s (the squadron flies
photo, electronic and weather reconnaissance missions in the W Pacific).

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: Large numbers of
B-24s, B-25s, A-20s, and fighter-bombers concentrate on communications
targets throughout N Luzon Island and attack airfields, communications, and
town areas in S Luzon, the C Philippine Islands, and on Mindanao Island.
B-25s and P-38s attack Kendari Airfield on Celebes Island. HQ 308th
Bombardment Wing (Heavy) moves from Leyte Island to Luzon.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

12/0036Z JAN

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 19:40:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 12 JAN 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FRIDAY, 12 JANUARY 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): 6 B-25s again damage a bridge at Wan
Mai-Lo, Burma. 35 fighter-bombers pound targets of opportunity around
Wanting, China and Muse, Burma.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 16 fighter-bombers support
ground forces in the battle sectors at Si-U and at Lawa on the Irrawaddy
River; 70+ fighter-bombers hit troops, supplies, vehicles, and general enemy
movement at Namsa-lap, Longmao, Hsa-ihkao, Mangpu, Pangnim, and near Lashio,
Hsipaw, and Hsenwi. Transports fly 544 sorties, landing men and supplies at
forward bases and dropping supplies to troops in battle sectors.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): All combat operations are cancelled
because of weather.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): For the fourth consecutive day,
all bombing operations are cancelled by bad weather. P-38s fly photo and
weather reconnaissance and escort missions.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, weather severely
curtails operations, but fighters and fighter-bombers of the XXII Tactical
Air Command score successfully against communications targets in W and C Po
Valley, claiming 50+ rail cuts and destruction or damage of 100+ vehicles.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 28 Guam Island-based B-24s bomb airfields on
Iwo Jima Island; 3 B-24s, on armed reconnaissance from Saipan Island, bomb
Marcus Island. Iwo Jima is hit by snooper strikes during the night of 12/13
Jan, by 4 B-24s from the Mariana Islands.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s bomb the San
Jose del Monte area and bivouac areas on N Luzon; other B-24s hit Legaspi,
and Batangas Airfields on Luzon, and Matina Airfield on Mindanao Island while
B-25s bomb Fabrica warehouses on Negros Island.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  jem3@cc.bellcore.com  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

12/0040Z JAN

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 19:58:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

 >I have read somewhere that the Japanese military attempted to prevent
 >Japan's surrender, even though the Emporer had ordered it.  Can anyone
 >provide me with some details on this?
 >
 >Regards, John Ausland


John,

As I remember the story, Hirohito made a recording announcing the
surrender that was to played over the radio the next day.  As some
of his flunkies were taking the record from the Palace, some of the
Young Tirks who were against surrender tried to grab it and destroy
it.  They were not successful and the recording was played the
following day.



-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 20:04:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: 50TH: SMITHSONIAN AND HIROSHIMA

 >Somewhere, Lost in all the shuffle is the fact that conventional incendiary
 >raiding was doing far more damage-- the bomb evidently brought the notion to
 >the high command in Japan that we could now cause this destruction on a
 >single plane basis, even though we only had a few nuclear bombs at the time...
 >people who witness one of the bombings (i forget which ) saw the b-29 and
 >because there were only it and another for observation, thought it was a
 >recon mission...
 >
 >
 >                                                  Paul Gregor

Paul,

There were actually three aircraft dispatched on this mission, all
from the 509th Composite Group, which consisted of the 320th Troop
Carrier Squadron with Douglas C-54s and the 393d Bombardment
Squadron (Very Heavy) with 15 B-29s arrived at North Field, Tinian,
Marianas Islands.  The Enola Gay, B-29-40-MO, USAAF s/n 44-86292
coded R in a circle and number 82, dropped the first A-bomb.  I do
not have specific data on the other two B-29s which served as
observation and photo aircraft.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 20:08:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

 >John, I cannot think of anything like a coup right offhand, but there are
 >several documented instances of Japanese servicemen continuing the fight
 >after the announcement was made that there would be a cease-fire.  For
 >instance, Sakai tells of shooting down a B-29 in a night mission after the
 >announcement (why would a B-29 be flying--leaflets?) in _Samurai_.  I believe
 >that Admiral Ukagi's suicide mission may have been after the announcement,
 >_The Last Kamakazi_ should confirm this.
 >
 >Cassady Craft
 >e-mail CCRAFT@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
 >or
 >CCRAFT@LANL.GOV

My sources indicate that the last B-29 mission flown with losses of
aircraft was on 8 Aug 45 when 3 B-29s were lost.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:23:25 -0500
From:    chris garcia <moonie@DORSAI.DORSAI.ORG>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

On Wed, 11 Jan 1995, JOHN AUSLAND wrote:

> I have read somewhere that the Japanese military attempted to prevent
> Japan's surrender, even though the Emporer had ordered it.  Can anyone
> provide me with some details on this?
>
> Regards, John Ausland
>
It's been a while since I read it, but yes there was such an attempt, and
you may read about it in detail in the last several chapters of John Toland's
fine book "The Rising Sun".

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:40:46 -0500
From:    "Arthur D. Venzin" <VENZIN@CALVIN.CC.DUQ.EDU>
Subject: 11th Armored Div.

Sorry all still don't know how to download but i did promise to send stuff on 11th as it occurred.  Here is the info for Jan 12, 1945 before major offensive.

12 January 1945

The 55th A.I.B. as a component unit of CCR, was assigned the mission of
supporting the attack of CCA in the vicinity of LONGCHAMPS, BELGIUM.  In
preparation for the mission, the Battalion moved from MAGEROTTE, BELGIUM,
northeast to positions in the vicinity of HEMROULLE, BELGIUM.

13 January 1945

The 55th A.I.B. remaining under control CCR, marched from HEMROULLE,BELGIUM,
to vicinity of LONGCHAMPS, BELGIUM, with the mission of supporting
attacking elementsof CCA and protecting the Division left flank.  Company
"A" 55th A.I.B. relieved a battalion of the 502nd Parachute Regt., of the
101st Airborne Div.  CCA attacked at 1000 hrs w/ the Battalion furnishing
supporting fires to the left flank elements of CCA.  When the attack of
CCA reached BOIS DE NOM DE FALIZE, the 55th under CCR control, attacked
north along the left flank, by-passing ROUTTE, BELGIUM and securing FAYS,
BELGIUM and FME DE MENIL, BELGIUM, in accomplishment of the assigned
mission.  Casualties for the period were 2 EM wounded.

There's a start.  Tomorrow I'll send the Battle of Longchamps ... Hope
you all like it ... sorry for such delay.

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 10 Jan 1995 to 11 Jan 1995
*************************************************

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Subject:  WWII-L Digest - 11 Jan 1995 to 12 Jan 1995
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Status: O

There are 52 messages totalling 1480 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. WEAP: Preserving vintage CV, BB, etc.
  2. Trivia, Decks (4)
  3. INF: USN Chronology 01-12-95
  4. INF: 50 Years Ago - 13-JAN-1945
  5. MEDIA, Spitfire Pilot's Burial
  6. WEAP: Soviet Aircraft
  7. JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP? (5)
  8. Olympic Games (6)
  9. <No subject given> (2)
 10. Anti-ship missiles (3)
 11. B-29s on the Hiroshima mission (2)
 12. Olympics (3)
 13. German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc) (2)
 14. MISC: Italian trivia (2)
 15. Olympics - The torch
 16. Arctic convoys-- a question
 17. WW II Mysteries (2)
 18. Query: Ahenerbe (2)
 19. Question on Economic Warfare
 20. Query: Swastika (2)
 21. Question: German fighter gunsights
 22. 22d Hurtgen Epilogue (3)
 23. 50TH: SMITHSONIAN AND HIROSHIMA
 24. Query:  Japan/US relations
 25. ?Resources
 26. INF: _A Soldier's Story_ excerpt
 27. German Ocean Liners (Romanian Carriers)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 00:11:21 -0600
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <rjg@STAT.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Preserving vintage CV, BB, etc.

In message <01HLQBN29IECB2BO39@VX.CIS.UMN.EDU> World War II Discussion List
writes:
> > I've posted this before--the USS Inaugrial at St. Louis sank and
> > disappeared--no one seems to know what happened to it
>
> I understand that before that incident, USS Inaugural was carefully
> and beautifully restored to her original WWII configuration and camo.
> The other surviving WWII minesweeper, USS Hazard (AM-240, I believe),
> is also beautifully restored. Both are Admiral class minesweepers, I
> think. Hope USS Inaugural can still be recovered....
>
> Does anyone of you know what future was decided for USS Cabot (CVL-28)?
> I hope some association will take the wheel and preserve her, as she
> is the last specimen of her class. Maybe the Intrepid museum association?

I doubt the Intrepid Museum will be able to do anything... The last time I
spoke with their Executive Officer (was looking for contributing support for
some naval reunion of Intrepid vets), they were unable to contribute toward
even something as natural as that.  I was informed that the museum has never
operated in the black (must be backed by someone with a real love for the
ship :-).  Therefore, it seems unlikely that they'd be even able to consider
yet another vessel.

Rebuilding aircraft as we do (flying B-25 took $300,000 to restore, our P-51C
(complete!) will take nearly $400,000 to restore) and knowing the money
involved in such a comparably small item, the challenges of preserving even
a small ship has to be almost astronomically unbelievable.

In fact, I still don't know how it can even be done except in the most rare
and/or important of specimens.

Woof.


--
Robert J. Granvin
Southern Minnesota Wing Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:51:03 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Trivia, Decks

There's a complete account of the Royal Navy task force in the Pacific
campaign (Okinawa, etc) in THE FORGOTTEN FLEET.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 04:00:17 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <tkeller@LOGICON.COM>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 01-12-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
01/12 Fri. Aircraft from fast carrier task force (Vice Adm. J. S.
           McCain) operating in the South China Sea hit Japanese
           shipping, airfields, and other shore installations in
           southeast French Indochina.
            United States naval vessels damaged, Philippine Islands
             area:
             Destroyer escorts RICHARD W. SUESENS (DE-342) and
              GILLIGAN (DE-508), by suicide planes,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             Attack transport ZEILIN (APA-3), by suicide plane,
              15 d. 23'N., 119 d. 10'E.
             LST 700, by suicide plane,
              14 d. 04'N., 119 d. 25'E.
             LST 710 and LST 778, accidentally by United States naval
              gunfire,
              15 d. 00'N., 119 d. 30'E.
            Japanese naval vessel sunk, by carrier-based aircraft,
             South China Sea:
             Training cruiser KASHII,
              13 d. 50'N., 109 d. 20'E.
             Frigate CHIBURI,
              10 d. 20'N., 107 d. 50'E.
             Submarine chaser NO. 31, 11 d. 10'N., 108 d. 55'E.
             Submarine chaser NO. 43,
              11 d. 53'N., 109 d. 08'E.
             Minesweeper NO. 101,
              11 d. 10'N., 108 d. 55'E.
             Transport NO. 140,
              10 d. 20'N, 107 d. 50'E.
             Patrolboat NO. 103,
              11 d. 10'N., 108 d. 55'E.
             Coast defense vessels NOs. 17 and 19,
              10 d. 20'N., 107 d. 50'E.
             Coast defense vessel NO. 23,
              14 d. 15'N., 109 d. 10'E.
             Coast defense vessels NOs. 35 and 43,
              11 d. 10'N., 108 d. 55'E.
             Coast defense vessel NO. 51,
              14 d. 15'N., 109 d. 10'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <ljewell@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
tkeller@logicon.com

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 04:32:44 -0800
From:    John Davis <jbd@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 13-JAN-1945

On 13-JAN-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the British 2nd Army sector, the XXX Corps completes its
mission in the Ardennes as the 51st Division reaches the Ourthe River south
of Laroche. In the U.S. 1st Army sector, the VII Corps is pushing towards
Houffalize at a steady pace. The XVIII Corps opens a new offensive with the
106th Division on the right and the 30th Division on the left. Units of the
106th Division attack southeast toward the La Neuville-Coulee-Logbierme-
Houvegnez line, reaching a position near Henumont. The 30th Division drives
south from the Malmedy area toward the Ambleve River. In the 3rd Army
sector, advance elements of the 87th Division reach the Ourthe River and
make contact with the British. The 17th Airborne Division takes Salle,
north of Flamierge, without opposition. The 11th Armoured Division attacks
north along the Longchamps-Bertogne axis, cutting the Houffalize-St Hubert
highway near Bertogne. Units of the 101st Airborne capture Foy. The 90th
Division drives the Germans from Bras. In the southern sector of the Allied
front, fighting continues around Strasbourg. The 3rd Algerian Division
holds off repeated German attacks.

Eastern Front - The 1st Ukraine and 2nd Belorussian Fronts mount heavy and
well executed attacks to continue their advance. The 47th Army of the 2nd
Belorussian Front surrounds Warsaw.

Philippines -  On Luzon in the XIV Corps area, units of the 40th Division
move along the coast of the Lingayen Gulf to a site chosen for a seaplane
base in Cabalitan Bay and find that Allied naval forces have already
secured it without Japanese interference. Units of the 37th Division
capture Wawa. In I Corps sector, the 6th Division pushes to a line
Malisiqui-Catablan-Torres. Units of the 43rd Division take Damortis
without a struggle. With scattered strikes on Lingayen Gulf, all major
Japanese air attacks on the Luzon invasion force comes to an end.

Burma - In the Arakan area, the British XV Corps strengthens the Myebon
bridgehead. The Indian 25th Division begins landing.

The Homefront
-------------
Army Seizes Power Plants - Under orders from President Roosevelt, the Army
has seized the plants and facilities of the Cleveland Illuminating Co.,
Cleveland, Ohio, to end a strike of 400 coal passers and maintenance men
that have hampered war production in the area.

War Veterans Back - 1,300 veterans of the 1st, 3rd, 7th and 9th Armies,
pulled out of the front lines about a month ago for 30-day home leaves as a
reward for valorous service, arrived in New York yesterday.

Japanese Internees Want To Return - Attorney General Francis J. Biddle says
in a Newark, N.J. speech that 5,000 Japanese in the Tule Lake, California
relocation camp have applied for repatriation to Japan.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 jbd@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 07:57:45 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <newst@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: MEDIA, Spitfire Pilot's Burial

    It's a real shame that in doing the right thing, the rescuer has to pay
    the price for the RAF's bureaucratic reluctance to recover one of their
    own.

    Steve New
    NEWST@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL
    Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:11:33 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <newst@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: WEAP: Soviet Aircraft

    This week's offering on Weekday Wings (Discovery Channel 18:00 EDT)
    consists of episodes of Wings of the Red Star.

    Wednesday they had the fighters.  Beautiful color footage (360 degree
    pans and interiors) of I-16, La-7, Yak-9 and Mig-3 from the Monino
    Aircraft Museum.

    Now I know what colors to use to finish the La-7 I've been saving.
    Maybe, if I'm lucky, they'll do a Wings of the Polish and Romanian Air
    Forces.  Then I'll learn how to finish the PZL P-11c and IAR 80 I just
    bought.

    Steve L. New
    NEWST@CC.TACOM.ARMY.MIL
    Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:14:47 -0500
From:    "Peter I. Hidas" <PHIDAS@RUNT.DAWSONCOLLEGE.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

The World at War British film series on the Second World War has a
segment on the atomic bomb where the last minute attempt by junior
officers to prevent the broadcasting the emperor's surrender message
is described.
Peter I. Hidas, Montreal
phidas@dawsoncollege.qc.ca

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:40:16 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

>>I am curious how hitler had anything todo with the assigning of medals during
>>the olympics in the first place?  Was there not an olympic committee to deal
>>with awards?
>
John said:
>He didn't.  Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he personally
>presented the medals to some of the winners, but refused to do that for the
>black runners.

Of that, J. Owens and others who were "denied" Hitler's presence can be proud.

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 09:33:17 -0500
From:    S94005525 Coloniel Daniel Kovacs <S94005525@GC1.GEORCOLL.ON.CA>
Subject: <No subject given>

unsuscribe Coloniel Daniel Kovacs

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 17:02:10 +0300
From:    Ozgur Altinyay <altinyay@BILKENT.EDU.TR>
Subject: Anti-ship missiles

Hello , my comrades-in-internet !
I am trying to find results about the use of anti-ship missiles in the WW II. I know that the Germans used the FX and US had a project under development. However through the limited sources here in Turkey , I am unable to find more than
se. I also rember from my memory that the Russian took the FX designs
after the war , and improved it . The SS-3 sytx of Eilat fame being the result
of those studies. I would liek to know more about the use of anti-ship missiles
by all sides in WW II. Does anyone know about this ? I am sure someone must , especially in this list.

PS. I know that this is not the place , but I would also like to get informationabout the use of soviet anti-shipp missiles in the war of 1973.



Ozgur Altinyay
altinyay
altinyay@trbilun.tr

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:29:15 EST
From:    "Dennis E. Sparks" <sparks@ALPHA.CAER.UKY.EDU>
Subject: B-29s on the Hiroshima mission

Here's a little more information on the B-29s mentioned in Jack's
post on the aircraft used in the atomic bomb mission to Hiroshima.

Prior to the "Enola Gay"'s departure from Tinian, three other B-29s
of the 509th Composite Group were on their way to Japan to
determine the weather over the primary target of Hiroshima, the
secondary target (Kokura?), and the tertiary target of Nagasaki.
The three aircraft were named "Straight Flush", "Full House", and
"Jabbit".  "Straight Flush", piloted by Claude Eatherly, reached
Hiroshima at 7:30 AM and reported by radio to Tibbets, flying 45
minutes behind him.

Two other B-29s accompanied "Enola Gay" to Hiroshima.  "The Great
Artiste", flown by Chuck Sweeney, was fitted with scientific
instruments, while B-29 No. 91, flown by George Marquadt, carried
cameras and observers.  (I'm uncertain if the aircraft was merely
number 91 or was named "No. 91".)

BTW, Jack mentioned that "Enola Gay" carried a large "R" in a circle
on its vertical tail surface when it dropped Little Boy.  That is
correct, but there's a story about that also.  Circle R was the
insignia of another B-29 unit on Tinian (6th BG?), with the 509th's
B-29s carrying a forward-pointing arrowhead inscribed in a circle.
When the group arrived in May-June 1945, they began flying single
plane missions, dropping "pumpkins", which was a bomb casing shaped
like the second (plutonium) bomb, Fat Man.  The second bomb was
a much more rotund shape than conventional bombs, with different
aerodynamic properties.  For these single plane missions, these
casing were loaded with conventional high explosives, with the bomb
weighing in at the same 9000 lbs. that the plutonium bomb would weigh.
When Tokyo Rose began making comments about the B-29s with the
arrowheads that could only drop one bomb, the 509th repainted
the tail insignia, adopting the markings of some of the other B-29
groups as a sort of camoflage.  "Bock's Car", which dropped the
second bomb, wore a triangle "N" on 9 August 1944.  Photographs of
"Enola Gay" made after the war show that the circle R was removed
and the original circle/arrowhead re-applied.

Sweeney was chosen to drop the second bomb.  Since his "Great Artiste"
was still outfitted with instruments, he switched aircraft with
Fred Bock.  Bock flew "Great Artiste" and Sweeney flew "Bock's Car".
("Bock's Car", complete with the nose art applied after the mission,
now resides at the USAF museum at Wright Patterson AFB near Dayton,
Ohio.)

I strongly recommend reading "Enola Gay" by Gordon Thomas and Max
Morgan Witts (ISBN 0-8128-2150-5).  It has a detailed account of
both missions.  Of particular interest to me is the second mission,
where practically everything that could go wrong did.  I had the
good fortune to meet Paul Tibbets on 6 Aug 1993, and I asked him
several questions about the second mission.  He ended discussion
of that subject by saying something to the effect of, "Those boys
f**ked up.  If they'd done what I told them to do, they wouldn't
have had any problems.", which I find very curious, as many of the
problems encountered were (IMHO) not due to errors in judgement by
Sweeney and company.

A curious note regarding what could be considered as PC with regards
to building plastic model aircraft.  Monogram produces a 1/48th
scale B-29, complete with both Little Boy and Fat Man A-bombs.  As
originally released, the kit featured a decal sheet with both
"Enola Gay" and "Bock's Car" on it.  The kit is still available,
still contains the bombs, but no longer has the same decal sheet.
Nor (to my knowledge) are aftermarket decals available for these two
aircraft.  Superscale decals offers a sheet of 509th Group aircraft
that includes "The Great Artiste" and "Straight Flush", but not
the two A-bomb carriers.

Dennis E. Sparks
sparks@alpha.caer.uky.edu
Lexington, Kentucky

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:12:16 +0001
From:    Ira H Krakow <ikrakow@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

   An interesting sidebar to the racial overtones of the 1936 Olympics
was the compliance, at the "suggestion" of the German Olympic Committee,
of the U.S. Olympic Committee *not* allowing the Jewish relay runners
Marty Glickman and Sam Stoller to compete.  Avery Brundage was head of
the USOC at the time and he had some anti-Semitic tendencies.  Marty
Glickman and Sam Stoller had posted the best times but that didn't
seem to matter when pleasing the Olympic hosts.

Ira Krakow
ikrakow@world.std.com

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 11:05:30 EST
From:    William Lippert <WL1958A@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject: Olympics

Hitler's response, as far as I can recall from various documentaries and
written accounts (such as Speer's "Inside the Third Reich") was that
Hitler was enraged that Blacks had been allowed to compete in the games.
It wasn't so much that he was upset that the "Master Race" wasn't so
masterful, but he viewed blacks as only a step up from wild animals.
"Of course they were faster!  But a cheetah's faster than an Aryan, too,
you know.  It isn't fair that these animals be allowed to race with real
humans."  That was the context of what he said, I think.

I don't know that he tried to downplay the games at all as they were, no
matter what, an important showcase for German society and modernization.
The Olympics, for Germany, were more than games; it was a chance to show
the world that Germany was a prosperous, industrial, and most importantly
under control nation.  The days of riots and putsche's were gone.  Peace
and happinness, except for the Jews, was now the status quo.  The loss
of the races to blacks was only a minor setupback and, in the end I think,
not profound in the image of peace and strength that Hitler was trying to
project to the world.

William Lippert
The American University

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:10:25 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <gregk@STPAUL.LIB.MN.US>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc)

in regards to the BREMEN---

BREMEN (fourth liner with this name), built AG Weser, Bremen 1929.
       Norddeutscher Lloyd line; sister ship to EUROPA (built 1930)
       displacement 51,731 tons; 27.50 knots (did 28.50 knots on trials)
       crew of 944; accommodations for 723 1st, 600 tourist, 908 3rd class


BREMEN slipped out of New York harbour sans passengers the night of
August 30th, 1939, successfully eluded a British cruiser that had been
positioned off New York with the express hope of seizing a Very Valuable
War Prize, did an "end run" north of Scotland and arrived at Murmansk on
September 6th (VERY speedy liner...)  From Murmansk she made her way back
to Bremen by hugging the Norwegian coast, finally returning home on
December 10th, after narrowly escaping the sights of HMS SALMON, a
British submarine encountered en route.

BREMEN was taken over by the German Kriegsmarine along with other liners
in June 1940 to be converted to a troop transport for the upcoming
invasion of England (Sea Lion), but fitting out proceeded only
halfheartedly and was finally abandoned.  While anchored in Bremerhaven
on March 18th, 1941 the ship was set afire by a youthful member of her
crew in what appears to have been a personal feud with another cremember
rather than any sort of politically-motivated act of sabotage; the whole
affair remains mysterious.  The burning ship was scuttled to prevent
further fire damage, but subsequently found to have been damaged beyond
repair.  She was stripped down to the waterline soon afterwards, with the
remainder of the hull broken up in 1953.

Information compiled from:

Nicholas T Cairis, PASSENGER LINERS OF THE WORLD SINCE 1893 (rev ed, 1979)

CR Vernon Gibbs, PASSENGER LINERS OF THE WESTERN OCEAN (2nd ed, 1957)

and some bits & pieces from the Time-Life series on WW2

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          gregk@stpaul.lib.mn.us

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:35:16 -0800
From:    Ellen Shepard <ESHEPARD@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

You wrote:

>
>I am sorry about the bad translation of my name, but I was
>using an old (vacuum tube driven?) vax unix system.  I have read
>in an article, plus on my dish (channel G4 21) Arts + Entertainment
>is having a program in the next week or so relating to pre 40's olympic
>games, which I will try to catch.
>
>Many thanks,
>Col. Daniel Kovacs
>
>

thanks for the info.  Can you please let me know the date that it
is scheduled to play.

i understand that the olympic games that was
scheduled during wwii was cancelled.  do you have any info
on that?

Thank you
Ellen Shepard

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:48:35 -0800
From:    Ellen Shepard <ESHEPARD@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: MISC: Italian trivia

if you are interested in info regarding the italian pow's, read "italian
prisoners of war in america; 1942-1946" by louis e. keefer, praeger
publishers, ny, ny.

i would like to contact any of the women who were in contact with the
italian pow's during the war for a documentary that i am producing.

here's a bit of info:  once in the us, the pow's were placed in 27 camps in
23 different states with each camp accomodating 1,000-3,000 prisoners.
 in all, the us held about 50,000 italian pow's.  many pow's worked as labor
on farms.   some pow's were allowed to attend local dances and some trips
 off base to places such as ny.  a number of pow's married american girls.

Ellen shepard
producer
"memories from the women of world war II'

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:11:07 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <MFY@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

        John, there is a pretty good and very reasonable short account of
that coup attempt in John Toland's "Rising Sun."  I don't recall the details
but if you can't easily obtain a copy and no one else on the list responds I'd
be happy to look it up and transcribe it for you if you give me a couple of
days.

Regards

Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:19:45 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <MFY@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

        To Cassady Craft:
        According to Ugaki's diary, an English version of which has been
published in the last few years, he did indeed take off on his suicide mission
after the announcement of the surrender.  He left behind a "death haiku" that
roughly translates as follows
        "having a dream, I went up into the sky"

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:22:00 EST
From:    mc killop <jem3@DONUTS0.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject: Re: B-29s on the Hiroshima mission

 Dennis E. Sparks writes:

Snip, snip
 >
 >BTW, Jack mentioned that "Enola Gay" carried a large "R" in a circle
 >on its vertical tail surface when it dropped Little Boy.  That is
 >correct, but there's a story about that also.  Circle R was the
 >insignia of another B-29 unit on Tinian (6th BG?), with the 509th's
 >B-29s carrying a forward-pointing arrowhead inscribed in a circle.
 >When the group arrived in May-June 1945, they began flying single
 >plane missions, dropping "pumpkins", which was a bomb casing shaped
 >like the second (plutonium) bomb, Fat Man.  The second bomb was
 >a much more rotund shape than conventional bombs, with different
 >aerodynamic properties.  For these single plane missions, these
 >casing were loaded with conventional high explosives, with the bomb
 >weighing in at the same 9000 lbs. that the plutonium bomb would weigh.
 >When Tokyo Rose began making comments about the B-29s with the
 >arrowheads that could only drop one bomb, the 509th repainted
 >the tail insignia, adopting the markings of some of the other B-29
 >groups as a sort of camoflage.  "Bock's Car", which dropped the
 >second bomb, wore a triangle "N" on 9 August 1944.  Photographs of
 >"Enola Gay" made after the war show that the circle R was removed
 >and the original circle/arrowhead re-applied.


This is part of a post I sent last year that amplifies Dennis'
post.

The 509th was attached to the 313th Bombardment Wing (Very Heavy)
and all B-29s assigned to this wing carried a letter in a circle on
the vertical tail surfaces as an identification marking.  Initially,
the 509th applied a forward facing arrow in a circle to their B-29s
however, in order to keep the existence of this special group secret,
the markings were changed in Jul 45 to markings already assigned to
other groups of the Twentieth Air Force.  The markings applied were:

  1. "A" without a geometric figure of the 497th Bombardment Group
     (Very Heavy), 73d Bombardment Wing (Very Heavy).
  2. "N" in a triangle of the 444th Bombardment Group (Very Heavy),
     58th Bombardment Wing (Very Heavy); and
  3. "P" in a square of the 39th Bombardment Group (Very Heavy), 314th
     Bombardment Wing (Very Heavy);
  4. "R" in a circle of the 6th Bombardment Group (Very Heavy), 313th
     Bombardment Wing (Very Heavy).

It is believed that each of these markings were applied to three B-29s
of the 509th so that when pairs of 509th aircraft flew recon missions
over Japan, they could not be identified as a unique unit.  An expert
can tell that some of the markings applied to the 509th aircraft are
not identical to those applied to the "real" unit.

Another tipoff that these markings were false was the aircraft number
assigned to each aircraft.  All of the other B-29 groups in the
Marianas used aircraft number below 70 or 75 but the B-29s of the 509th
carried numbers between 72 and 95.  Known numbers are 72, 73, 77, 82,
83, 85, 86, 88, 89, 91 and 95.  The number was painted in the normal
size and position as other groups, i.e., 36 inches (91.4 cm) high on
the rear fuselage and 15 inches (38.1 cm) high just aft of the
bombardier's position.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  jem3@donuts0.bellcore.com  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 18:30:27 +0000
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <gummihe@ISMENNT.IS>
Subject: Re: Olympics - The torch

I have read that the German Olympic Committee invented the torch and the
run with it to light the Olympic fire, and that the story on how the
Greeks also had the torch and fire is just a myth developed to take the
credit away from the Germans.
    I dont have the book with me but I think
it's called "Wolf's Shadow" or something like that written by one Brit
and an American, the Brit was in wartime military intelligence so I
doubt he is some neo-nazi :) I can get the book's correct title and the
names of the authors (it's a fiction but has some interesting stories
and backgrounds of the characters in the last section.) if anyone wants it.

Anyone seen this as well?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gudmundur J. Helgason                              e-mail: gummihe@ismennt.is
Olduslod 41
220 Hafnarfjordur                                   Maintainer of ICELAND.FAQ
ICELAND
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 14:02:20 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <MFY@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Arctic convoys-- a question

        I've been reading a book called "With The Fleet," purporting to be the
wartime diaries of Admiral Arseny Golovko, the commander of the Soviet Navy's
Northern Fleet throughout the Second World War.  As Soviet memoir literature of
the period goes (IMHO), its pretty good stuff, not as dry as some (for
instance, Admiral Isakov's short account of the naval war) and not as divorced
from reality.  In fact, very realistic in its portrayal of Soviet difficulties
and losses in this unforgiving Arctic theatre.  Anyway, my question is this:
Golovko is understandably critical of some of the Allied efforts in connection
with the Arctic convoys to Murmansk, particularly around the period of PQ-17.
He mentions some instances of rather embarrassing incidents of US merchant
crews putting self-preservation above the deliverance of supplies to the
Soviets (I'm just summing up what Golovko says-- I myself am aware of the
sometimes fantastic sacrifices and difficulties sailors on this route endured).
I've read the Morrison volume regarding the Arctic convoys, and he does support
Golovko's contention that sometimes the merchant crews were less than willing
to risk their all for Uncle Joe-- in fact, Morison goes into even greater
detail than Golovko in terms of supplying examples.  However, Golovko makes
another complaint (repeatedly) which I wondered if anyone on the list can
verify.  He says it was a fairly common practice in '42-'43 for Allied escorts
to sink damaged merchantmen rather than try to bring the ships through.  I'm
assuming that, if this did happen more than once or twice (Golovko claims it
was pretty much standard procedure), it was done with ships so badly
incapacitated that they were unable to keep up with the convoy, in the
interests of saving the crew (another explanation that comes to mind is to
prevent damaged vessels from leaving tell-tale oil slicks or smoke from fires
to lead U-boats and Ju-88's to the convoy).  But can anybody confirm this
practice??  I am also aware that in the convoys to Malta many badly damaged
ships that fell out of the convoy were still able to crawl into Malta on their
own, often several days behind the main effort.

Thanks in advance for any help

Mike Yaklich

PS: To John Ausland
If you want me to post that info from Toland about Japanese anti-surrender coup
attempts please drop me a line.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:08:05 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: WW II Mysteries

Hello, Allan!

Thanks for the note.

 The book is perhaps the best book I have ever read, but
> is it
> reliable?

    I am familiar with this book as I have a German edition of it. I
haven't read it, and cannot vouch for its reliability, but, if I
understand you correctly, Hitler drove Stalin into a war for which he
was not prepared. Yes, but if the other way around, I doubt that.
Hitler was surprised at going to war over Poland, but was ready for
it. Halder, as chief of the General Staff, had put approved the plan
that had won the war with Poland before the first shot was fired.

    After your post, I will look into it. This book was given me by a
friend overseas, and I haven't had time to read it.

    Thank you, again for the post, and please stay in touch.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:11:34 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Trivia, Decks

Hello, Burt!


> One thing I remember reading was that when the British Fleet sent their
> carriers to the Pacific in 1945, they became PART of a US task force and a
> Kamikaze attacked one of the carriers with a 500 kG bomb. They hosed off the
> wreckage and there was a one inch deep dent in the flight deck where the plane
> hit. No other damage. A US carrier could have been put out of action for
> several weeks until repairs were done. The Brits just kept going... BWK

    That is all very true, but British carriers were noticeably
slower as a result of those armored flight decks, and as a result,
the American fleet to which they were attached had to slow down to
keep pace with the slower Brits. That was the one drawback, in my
view.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:12:49 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: <No subject given>

Hello, Alfredo!

 I have a book at home, the name escapes me for the time being, that
will answer all your questions about the Bismarck.

    More later.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:19:29 -0600
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <TWATTS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Olympics

Has anyone ever read of the Nazi's using early television to promote their
image, especially of the Olympics?  Someone once told me of public viewing
rooms or auditoriums where prestige events like the Olympics were broadcast
for all to see.  Not only did it enhance the racial image of Aryans, but
it also demonstrated the German scientific superiority.

(As the youngest of 6 children, I have a tendency to believe everything
people tell me.  I'm still having problems with that Santa Claus thing.)

Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 14:51:55 EST
From:    Mary Hricko <MHRICKO@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Subject: Query: Ahenerbe

Hello everyone!

      I recall a series of postings on the SS, but can't remember if
there was any mention of a subdivision on the SS called "Deutche
Ahenerbe." This group was headed by Untersturmfuhrer Wolfram Sieverts
and was put under SS control in 1939. I am interested in any info on
Sieverts and this group. Thanks.

                                Regards - Mary

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 19:55:08 +0000
From:    Nechama Cox <nechama@BOREALIS.COM>
Subject: Question on Economic Warfare

Hi!  I am writting my dissertation on American and English Economic Warfare
during the Second World War, at the University of London.

Having recently (yesterday) read an obituary of a woman who worked on the
US Board of Economic Warfare and who was married to a man who worked for
the UK Ministry of Economic Warfare, it occured to me that there might be a
way for me to find out the "availability" people who worked on the Allied
Economic War effort whom I might be able to meet with and that this might
help my research efforts.

Can anyone suggest some place where such people might be listed or anyone
they know who might be interested in talking to a graduate student?

Thanks in advance,

Nechama Cox
nechama@borealis.com

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:06:53 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

The *original* question that started this thread was specifically
about the Olympic Games that were scheduled for 1940 but cancelled
because of the outbreak of the Second World War.

The well-known Jessie Owens/Adolph Hitler incident was not an issue.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:08:49 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Anti-ship missiles

The Royal Air Force made great use of rockets ["missiles"] against
enemy shipping. The principal aircraft using this mode of attack
was the Bristol Beaufighter of RAF Coastal Command.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:18:39 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: MISC: Italian trivia

Ellen...
        Italian prisoners of war were a commonplace sight on the streets
of Britain during the Second World War.
        Large numbers of them were employed (voluntarily) as farm
laborers, of which there was a great shortage owing to military conscription of
young British males.
        Italian PXs were considered "low risk" and given a remarkable level
of freedom of movement, even while Italy was still an Axis enemy.
        [German PWs began to be allowed similar freedom of movement during
the last two years of the war, when they too were commonly seen strolling aroundUK towns and going to the movies. Though there were no acts of violence towards
German PWs on pass, sight of them could be irritating to British civilians.]
        Italian PWs were seen as likeable and innofensive -- and pretty
popular with the girld over there.  Quite a number married British girls,
many settling down in the UK afterwards.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 14:42:40 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

Hello, John!

 > > I have read somewhere that the Japanese military attempted to
prevent
> > Japan's surrender, even though the Emporer had ordered it.  Can anyone
> > provide me with some details on this?

    You may also read this in detail in the book called "Japan's
Longest Day" and the author escapes me. A very interesting story, in
that a concerted effort was made by the young right-wing extremist
faction of the Japanese army to find and destroy the recording the
Emperor had made announcing Japan's decision to surrender.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:41:32 -0500
From:    THOMPSON@LVC.EDU
Subject: Re: Query: Ahenerbe

>Hello everyone!

>      I recall a series of postings on the SS, but can't remember if
>there was any mention of a subdivision on the SS called "Deutche
>Ahenerbe." This group was headed by Untersturmfuhrer Wolfram Sieverts
>and was put under SS control in 1939. I am interested in any info on
>Sieverts and this group. Thanks.

                                Regards - Mary

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

There is an excellent book, unfortunately as yet untranslated into English:

        Kater, Michael H. DAS AHNENERBE DER SS. Deutsche Verlags Anstalt,
                1974.

Wolfram Sievers was indeed "business manager" of the Ahnenerbe and was tried,
convicted, and hanged by the Americans for "crimes against humanity."

Hope this helps.

-- Warren Thompson

thompson@acad.lvc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:00:12 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Query: Swastika

Hello, Todd!

> I have read here at the current university that I am attending that the
> Swastika had some kind of religious significance.  That is was the strange
> symbol for an Aryan cult or order that Hitler was a member of from the
> time he was rejected as an artist.  I could get more info, because I don't
> have it right here in front of me.  If anyone is interested in this issue,
> we can pursue it.  It is quite fascinating to find out what made a man
> like Hitler tick


That is true. It was originally an Indian symbol that was adapted.

Hope this helps.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:00:41 -0500
From:    chris garcia <moonie@DORSAI.DORSAI.ORG>
Subject: Question: German fighter gunsights

I've been trying to get an idea of how standard reflector gunsights
worked.  That is, how did a pilot use them to track a moving  target and
hit it?  I'm particularly interested in the German Revi 13 Reflector
gunsight which was used on the Me163 and was probably standard on many
other messerschmitt planes.  My best guess is that the gunsight projected
a dot of light on a plate of glass arrangedat an angle over the light
lens, and that somehow the pilot manuvered his plane to put the dot on
the moving aircraft in front of the gunsight.  I've been discussing this
with someone from the Usenet "Rec.Aviation.Military" group and he
mentions an especialy sophisticated american sight on the Mustang called
the K-14 "Ace Maker".  Luftwaffe ace Johannes Steinhoff in one of his
books describes his own attacks on B-17's flying an Me262 jet using a
"gyroscopic" sight especially developed for high speed attack air craft.
What in the world is a gyroscopic gunsight?  His description sounds like
the light spot wandered around on the glass by the movements of the jet.
   But I'm really curious about the Revi reflector sight if anyone
knows.  Thanks.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:13:17 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <RTMOORE@PCAD-ML.ACTX.EDU>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

Hello, Scott!

Great post. Just wanted to add a thought.

> pg 149: "On January 25, 1945,...Eisenhower made up his mind. Out
> of forty thousand deserters apprehended by the military police,
> of whom 2864 had been tried and sentenced to anything from twenty
> years to death, he must pick one man and make an example of him."
> (refering to the execution of Pvt. Slovak, who had deserted from
> the 28th ID in the Hurtgen battle and refused to return to duty).

    Actually it was General Norman Cota, the division commander to
which Slovik was assigned, who had to approve, forward this through
channels, and once approved, carry out the sentence.

    All the best.

    Terry

 >
> Scott.
> Scott Hannon, Thu Dec 8 1994 (hannon@umbc.edu)
>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:15:22 -0600
From:    Terrence Lindell <LINDELL@WARTBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

An account of the last-minute efforts of young military officers to
seize the recording of Hirohito's surrender message can be found in
The Pacific War Research Society, comp., _Japan's Longest Day_ (Tokyo,
New York & San Francisco:  Kodansha International Ltd., 1968.

Terry Lindell
Wartburg College
Waverly, Iowa  50677
lindell@wartburg.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:24:46 -0500
From:    Lee Windsor u <wind6011@MACH1.WLU.CA>
Subject: Re: Trivia, Decks

>

>     That is all very true, but British carriers were noticeably
> slower as a result of those armored flight decks, and as a result,
> the American fleet to which they were attached had to slow down to
> keep pace with the slower Brits. That was the one drawback, in my
> view.
>
>     Terry
>
In addition to the slower speed, is it not true that the British carriers
had a smaller compliment of aircraft than their US counterparts due to
the weight of the armoured flight deck.  I guess it is indicative of a
general British trend to ensure that what equipement they had would last
given, their limited resources.  This applied not only to seapower but in
the air in terms of night bombing and on the ground in Northwest Europe
when we think of the policy of not putting an infantryman in where a
shell could go.

Just my thoughts

Semper Fi

Lee W.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:43:39 -0500
From:    Mike Bechthold <mbechtho@MACH1.WLU.CA>
Subject: Re: WW II Mysteries

Hi Allan,

Concerning Viktor Suvorov's book "Icebreaker," the short answer is that
it is not very reliable.

The main argument of the book is that Stalin was the sole instigator
behind the outbreak of the Second World War.  Stalin agreed to the
Nazi-Soviet Pact of August 1939 in order to give Hitler the confidence
that the Soviet Union would not interfere in his plans for the conquest
of Europe.  Stalin believed that a German attempt at conquering Europe
was a necessary precursor to a world communist revolution.  Once Hitler
had overextended himself, Stalin would unleash the Red Army to dominate
Europe himself.  Hence the title of the book:  Hitler was to be the
"Icebreaker of the Revolution."

In chapter after chapter, Suvorov presents a multitude of evidence to
show that the Red Army was ready for just such a campaign.  He points to
such factors as the abolition of security zones, the creation of airborne
corps, the winged tank, the Mark BT tank and the creation of enormously
powerful shock armies whose dispositions clearly indicated an offensive
intent.  On the surface, this evidence seems very solid.  However, the
analogy of a paper house fits Suvorov's book quite well.  From a distance
the house appears as study as any of its wood or brick neighbours.  A few
steps closer and it becomes apparent that the structure is not a sturdy
as it appears.  Closer still and you can see tremors run up the wall with
each approaching footfall.  When standing right beside it, a simple knock
on the door send that entire house crashing to the ground.

The sources used by Suvorov are almost all secondary in nature.  The
primarly sources consulted are all low grade, and often written long
after the end of the war.  The sources do not come close to supporting a
thesis as radical as that put forth by Suvorov.  It would seem that this
is a book that has been written from the perspective of hindsight.  It
may have been that at some point Stalin intended to attack Germany, but
it is not a realistic assessment of the situation in 1941 to conclude
that Operation Barbarossa was a preemptive attack designed to forestall a
Soviet invasion of Germany.


Hopes this helps to clear matters up.

Mike Bechthold
Wilfrid Laurier University
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
mbechtho@mach1.wlu.ca

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 17:09:16 EST
From:    Paul Gregor <PGREGOR@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Subject: Re: 50TH: SMITHSONIAN AND HIROSHIMA

Jack and others:

Thanks for the additiional postings on the B-29 A-bomb raids.  I wanted to
find out some additional things about the composite groups but subsequent
posts answered the bulk of my questions for now.  As our listowner says in
his help memo, members of this group are very sharp and you could end up with
egg on your face if you don't get your facts straight...I've already come
dangerously close to sucking an egg or two already. Unfortunately, I'm
pretty busy in grad. school and don't get to read as much as I'd like. The
list serves as my daily infusion.  That's why I keep fudging and saying
"I think" instead of being more definitive...hopefully you guys will keep
on top of me.

Having blabbed on about that,can any of you out there tell me the where-
abouts of General Yeager, Sweeney, Tibbits, or Alan Sheppard? I assume they
are all still extant, and would someday (being a book collector) oops- like
to have them inscribe some books for me if I catch them at an airshow, talk,
etc....



                                           Thanks all for the info

                                            Paul Gregor
                                            Kent State

                                         P S getting ready to post
                                         another query

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 17:27:39 -0500
From:    Lee Windsor u <wind6011@MACH1.WLU.CA>
Subject: Query:  Japan/US relations

Hello Ben!

One of my classmates is currently working on a comparative review of John
Dower's "War Without Mercy" and Akira Iriye's "Power and Culture".

Does anyone know of any recent comparative works that focus on the
differences in politics and culture between the US and Japan during the
war.

Thanks in advance

Semper Fi

Lee W.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:31:40 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <gregk@STPAUL.LIB.MN.US>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc)

Erich Groner's GERMAN WARSHIPS 1815-1945, VOLUME ONE: MAJOR SURFACE VESSELS
(Naval Institute Press, 1990)

has a chapter on "auxiliary aircraft carriers, 1942-1943" (pp73 ff.)

which has some GORGEOUS line drawings (1:1200 scale) of such mythical
beasties as (I'm copying here)

I (ex Europa)

`Jade' class (consisting of JADE and ELBE)

`Weser' class (that's the ex-cruiser SEYDLITZ, sister ship of the former
               LUTZOW that sat off Kronstadt as a Soviet floating
               battery-cum-hulk during the war)

and even--

II (ex- De Grasse)   (yes, a design utilising the French cruiser that the
                      Germans captured incomplete at Lorient in 1940-- like,
                      really WOW, man....)



Now, I don't know if I'll have the time to try and transcribe any of this
data in the feasible future, so if anyone else has access, feel free.
Otherwise, well, be patient.  I'll TRY and squeeze it in somehow.


Alas, nothing on any plans the Royal Romanian Navy might have had for
aircraft carriers.  Seaplanes seem to have been their limit....


                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          gregk@stpaul.lib.mn.us

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:41:46 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <gregk@STPAUL.LIB.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

I haven't had a chance to do much digging on this, but I do recall from
related research from many years ago that Finland invested heavily into
building facilities for the 1940 Olympics that were to be held in
Helsinki.  ,I have some dim memory that one of the structures servced
some military purpose during the war, but will need more time to verify
this' it's been a LONG time since that FinnEm military ops feasibility
study back in my student days-- the notes are way, way, WAY back in file
drawers....

          Suomi!

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          gregk@stpaul.lib.mn.us

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 13 Jan 1995 00:23:18 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@EVS2.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: Anti-ship missiles

On Thu, 12 Jan 1995, Ozgur Altinyay wrote:

> I am trying to find results about the use of anti-ship missiles in the
> WW II. I know that the Germans used the FX and US had a project under
> development. However through the limited sources here in Turkey , I am
> unable to find more than
> se. I also rember from my memory that the Russian took the FX designs
> after the war , and improved it . The SS-3 sytx of Eilat fame being the
> result of those studies. I would liek to know more about the use of
> anti-ship missiles
> by all sides in WW II. Does anyone know about this ? I am sure someone
> must , especially in this list.

I don't know a specialized reference work for WWII missiles. Most of this
is from the 'Encyclopedia of Rockets and Missiles' by Bill Gunston.

The two German anti-ship missiles that reached service were the Henschel
Hs 293 and Fritz-X. Hs 293 was a rocket-powered glide bomb. Fritz-X or
FX-1400 was a guided armour-piercing bomb. The operational versions of
both had radio-link guidance.  Hs 293 was the first to sink a warship, the
sloop Egret, on 27 August 1943. The Fritz-X became infamous on 9 September
1943, when it sank the Italian battleship Roma. The Germans developed a
lot of other anti-ship missiles that did not reach service. The Blohm &
Voss Bv 143 had a 'feeling arm' beneath it to help it in skimming the
water towards it target; but this failed to work. GT 1200 was similar to
Hs 293, with a torpedo warhead to attack ships below the waterline. And
'Friedensengel' dropped a torpedo in the water for the final attack run.

The US developed the 'Bat' winged missile. 'Bat' was a winged bomb with
active radar homing. The program began in 1941 under the name 'Dragon',
and was intended against surface ships. In 1942 Dragon became 'Pelican',
with a depth charge as weapons load, but in 1943 switched back to attack
on surface targets. It became 'Bat' in 1944; it was called that way
because it steered on reflected radar pulses. Bat had a slightly swept
wing with a span of 3.05m, and weighed 853kg. It was carried by the PB4Y-2
Privateer and entered service in May 1945, sinking several Japanese ships.
It was -- with a modified radar -- also effective against bridges. A
similar weapon, Gargoyle, never entered service.

The USAF developed a number of guided bombs in the GB and VB series with
image-contrast seekers, only useful against ships. But I never heard of
any operational use of GB-4 or VB-5.

Italy also developed anti-ship missiles, but with little success. So did
Japan. One of the Japanese missiles used a quite interesting homing
technique: it detected the pressure waves of firing guns! Alledgedly it
worked well...

I don't see how Styx (SS-7 or SS-N-2, SS-3 is Shyster and SS-N-3
Shaddock) could be related to Fritz-X. Styx is a powered ship-to-ship
missile, while Fritz-X was a guided, air-dropped, unpowered bomb. The
shape is also very different. Little is known about the guidance of
Styx; early versions can have had a copy of German radio-command systems,
but it certainly was updated in later models.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 18:40:03 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <hhs@EVEREST.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: ?Resources

A strong amen to DECISION BEFORE DAWN, both the movie and the novel.

And to go somewhat afield, for a surprisingly accurate and literate
intro to European diplomatic and political history of 1880-1918,
try THE FALL OF EAGLES in 13 episodes. BRAVO has been showing them
on cable TV and they may be purchaseable from the BBC (the Beeb has
a sales office in NYC, and I can get the address if anyone wants it.)
A *****MAJOR PLUS*****  of this series for today's highschoolers:
Capt. Jean-Luc Picard plays Lenin, and very well indeed- Stewart
has the intensity down right.

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 13 Jan 1995 00:45:26 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@EVS2.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: Trivia, Decks

On Thu, 12 Jan 1995, Lee Windsor u wrote:

> >     That is all very true, but British carriers were noticeably
> > slower as a result of those armored flight decks, and as a result,
> > the American fleet to which they were attached had to slow down to
> > keep pace with the slower Brits. That was the one drawback, in my
> > view.

> In addition to the slower speed, is it not true that the British carriers
> had a smaller compliment of aircraft than their US counterparts due to
> the weight of the armoured flight deck.  I guess it is indicative of a

Not *all* British carriers had armoured flight decks. Ark Royal, put to
sea in 1938, didn't --- she could carry 72 aircraft, at 22350 tons
displacement. Illustrious, Formidable, Victorious and Indomitable, had
armoured decks, and they could carry 36 aircraft at 23760 tons
displacement. Implacable and Indefatigable were enlarged to carry 54.

Certainly a high price to pay. But the British had to design their ships
for operations in the narrow, enclosed waters of the Mediterranean, were
they could be attacked at all time.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 18:51:47 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <hhs@EVEREST.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

I have a very vague recollection (ie- probably wrong) that the 1940
games were scheduled for Stockholm, and that the 1944 games were
never awarded as the war began in 1939 before the selection was
complete. Beyond this, I'm not sure what information would be                   available. You might try the US Olympic Committee for details.

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 19:30:28 EST
From:    Alan Wild <AWILD@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: INF: _A Soldier's Story_ excerpt

Omar Bradley wrote:

"On January 16, a little less than a month from the day Houffalize fell
to Rundstedt's columns, Hodges and Patton joined Armies in the rubble of
that tiny town. I had remembered it as a sleepy village on the side of a
hill, ten miles north of Bastogne on the macadam road to Liege. In the
gully below, a sawmill hummed through the tall, straight timber of the
Ardennes. A single intersection broke through the parallel row of stone
cottages that hugged the Liege road. To plug that intersection and deny
the enemy its east-west road, heavy bombers had demolished the town.
Bulldozers forcing their way north to make juncture with First Army
swept the charred rubble of Houffalize into the gapping bomb craters
left there by Allied air. Simple, poor, and unpretentious, the village
had offended no one. Yet it was destroyed simply because it sat astride
an undistinguished road junction. This road junction had made it a more
strategic objective than cities 50 times its size."

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 17:06:09 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

Pvt. Eddie Slovik was not "picked out pf 40,000 deserters to make an
example."

Slovik had deserted repeatedly -- three times before, been court-martialled
each time, and returned to unit in place of punishment.

Though there was a high incidence of desertion among US troops at the time,
the last six months of the war, no GI had been executed for desertion until
Slovik was shot by firing squad.

In fact, Gen. Eisenhower's only involvement was to countersign the
death sentence which had already been pronounced against Slovik. "Pour
encourager les autres", as the French so charmingly put it.
        ["To encourage the rest"]


--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 17:12:05 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <ub076@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

In all, 49 American servicemen were hanged after trial by courts-martial
for crimes committed on French soil after D-Day, June 6, 1944.

In the ETO [European Theatre of Operations] as a whole, 70 US soldiers
were executed up to October 31, 1945.  Most executions were for the
crimes of rape and murder.

The original number of US soldiers sentenced to death for capital crimes
in the ETO was much higher -- 443.  However, most of these sentences were
commuted to lengthy prison terms.

Pvt. Eddie Slovik was the only US soldier executed for desertion during WWII.


--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 20:16:56 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <hhs@EVEREST.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Olympics

Dear Tim,

The Germans did experiment with "theater" television technology and
several viewing rooms were established in major cities, but I'm not
sure whether they were set up in time for the Olympics.

Re Ira Krakow's point on Jewish athletes: several world class Jewish
athletes were also barred, for obvious reasons, from the German team.
I would be interested in knowing if this were true of any other team
than the Americans and the Germans. Brundage's anti-Semitism went
beyond "some," but he was a nut in general. He threw Eleanor Holmes,
one of the world's best divers, off the team because she drank
champagne on the voyage over.

Hnery Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 20:24:23 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <hhs@EVEREST.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners (Romanian Carriers)

Dear Greg,

Didn't the Royal Romanian Navy cancel a twenty carrier program in
1936 because of the limitations of the Treaty of Montreaux?

Henry Sirotin

-----