Subject: WWII-L Digest - 11 Jan 1995 to 12 Jan 1995

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 00:02:26 -0500

There are 52 messages totalling 1480 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. WEAP: Preserving vintage CV, BB, etc.
  2. Trivia, Decks (4)
  3. INF: USN Chronology 01-12-95
  4. INF: 50 Years Ago - 13-JAN-1945
  5. MEDIA, Spitfire Pilot's Burial
  6. WEAP: Soviet Aircraft
  7. JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP? (5)
  8. Olympic Games (6)
  9. <No subject given> (2)
 10. Anti-ship missiles (3)
 11. B-29s on the Hiroshima mission (2)
 12. Olympics (3)
 13. German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc) (2)
 14. MISC: Italian trivia (2)
 15. Olympics - The torch
 16. Arctic convoys-- a question
 17. WW II Mysteries (2)
 18. Query: Ahenerbe (2)
 19. Question on Economic Warfare
 20. Query: Swastika (2)
 21. Question: German fighter gunsights
 22. 22d Hurtgen Epilogue (3)
 23. 50TH: SMITHSONIAN AND HIROSHIMA
 24. Query:  Japan/US relations
 25. ?Resources
 26. INF: _A Soldier's Story_ excerpt
 27. German Ocean Liners (Romanian Carriers)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 00:11:21 -0600
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Preserving vintage CV, BB, etc.

In message <[email-masked]> World War II Discussion List
writes:
> > I've posted this before--the USS Inaugrial at St. Louis sank and
> > disappeared--no one seems to know what happened to it
>
> I understand that before that incident, USS Inaugural was carefully
> and beautifully restored to her original WWII configuration and camo.
> The other surviving WWII minesweeper, USS Hazard (AM-240, I believe),
> is also beautifully restored. Both are Admiral class minesweepers, I
> think. Hope USS Inaugural can still be recovered....
>
> Does anyone of you know what future was decided for USS Cabot (CVL-28)?
> I hope some association will take the wheel and preserve her, as she
> is the last specimen of her class. Maybe the Intrepid museum association?

I doubt the Intrepid Museum will be able to do anything... The last time I
spoke with their Executive Officer (was looking for contributing support for
some naval reunion of Intrepid vets), they were unable to contribute toward
even something as natural as that.  I was informed that the museum has never
operated in the black (must be backed by someone with a real love for the
ship :-).  Therefore, it seems unlikely that they'd be even able to consider
yet another vessel.

Rebuilding aircraft as we do (flying B-25 took $300,000 to restore, our P-51C
(complete!) will take nearly $400,000 to restore) and knowing the money
involved in such a comparably small item, the challenges of preserving even
a small ship has to be almost astronomically unbelievable.

In fact, I still don't know how it can even be done except in the most rare
and/or important of specimens.

Woof.

--
Robert J. Granvin
Southern Minnesota Wing Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:51:03 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Trivia, Decks

There's a complete account of the Royal Navy task force in the Pacific
campaign (Okinawa, etc) in THE FORGOTTEN FLEET.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 04:00:17 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 01-12-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
01/12 Fri. Aircraft from fast carrier task force (Vice Adm. J. S.
           McCain) operating in the South China Sea hit Japanese
           shipping, airfields, and other shore installations in
           southeast French Indochina.
            United States naval vessels damaged, Philippine Islands
             area:
             Destroyer escorts RICHARD W. SUESENS (DE-342) and
              GILLIGAN (DE-508), by suicide planes,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             Attack transport ZEILIN (APA-3), by suicide plane,
              15 d. 23'N., 119 d. 10'E.
             LST 700, by suicide plane,
              14 d. 04'N., 119 d. 25'E.
             LST 710 and LST 778, accidentally by United States naval
              gunfire,
              15 d. 00'N., 119 d. 30'E.
            Japanese naval vessel sunk, by carrier-based aircraft,
             South China Sea:
             Training cruiser KASHII,
              13 d. 50'N., 109 d. 20'E.
             Frigate CHIBURI,
              10 d. 20'N., 107 d. 50'E.
             Submarine chaser NO. 31, 11 d. 10'N., 108 d. 55'E.
             Submarine chaser NO. 43,
              11 d. 53'N., 109 d. 08'E.
             Minesweeper NO. 101,
              11 d. 10'N., 108 d. 55'E.
             Transport NO. 140,
              10 d. 20'N, 107 d. 50'E.
             Patrolboat NO. 103,
              11 d. 10'N., 108 d. 55'E.
             Coast defense vessels NOs. 17 and 19,
              10 d. 20'N., 107 d. 50'E.
             Coast defense vessel NO. 23,
              14 d. 15'N., 109 d. 10'E.
             Coast defense vessels NOs. 35 and 43,
              11 d. 10'N., 108 d. 55'E.
             Coast defense vessel NO. 51,
              14 d. 15'N., 109 d. 10'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 04:32:44 -0800
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 13-JAN-1945

On 13-JAN-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the British 2nd Army sector, the XXX Corps completes its
mission in the Ardennes as the 51st Division reaches the Ourthe River south
of Laroche. In the U.S. 1st Army sector, the VII Corps is pushing towards
Houffalize at a steady pace. The XVIII Corps opens a new offensive with the
106th Division on the right and the 30th Division on the left. Units of the
106th Division attack southeast toward the La Neuville-Coulee-Logbierme-
Houvegnez line, reaching a position near Henumont. The 30th Division drives
south from the Malmedy area toward the Ambleve River. In the 3rd Army
sector, advance elements of the 87th Division reach the Ourthe River and
make contact with the British. The 17th Airborne Division takes Salle,
north of Flamierge, without opposition. The 11th Armoured Division attacks
north along the Longchamps-Bertogne axis, cutting the Houffalize-St Hubert
highway near Bertogne. Units of the 101st Airborne capture Foy. The 90th
Division drives the Germans from Bras. In the southern sector of the Allied
front, fighting continues around Strasbourg. The 3rd Algerian Division
holds off repeated German attacks.

Eastern Front - The 1st Ukraine and 2nd Belorussian Fronts mount heavy and
well executed attacks to continue their advance. The 47th Army of the 2nd
Belorussian Front surrounds Warsaw.

Philippines -  On Luzon in the XIV Corps area, units of the 40th Division
move along the coast of the Lingayen Gulf to a site chosen for a seaplane
base in Cabalitan Bay and find that Allied naval forces have already
secured it without Japanese interference. Units of the 37th Division
capture Wawa. In I Corps sector, the 6th Division pushes to a line
Malisiqui-Catablan-Torres. Units of the 43rd Division take Damortis
without a struggle. With scattered strikes on Lingayen Gulf, all major
Japanese air attacks on the Luzon invasion force comes to an end.

Burma - In the Arakan area, the British XV Corps strengthens the Myebon
bridgehead. The Indian 25th Division begins landing.

The Homefront
-------------
Army Seizes Power Plants - Under orders from President Roosevelt, the Army
has seized the plants and facilities of the Cleveland Illuminating Co.,
Cleveland, Ohio, to end a strike of 400 coal passers and maintenance men
that have hampered war production in the area.

War Veterans Back - 1,300 veterans of the 1st, 3rd, 7th and 9th Armies,
pulled out of the front lines about a month ago for 30-day home leaves as a
reward for valorous service, arrived in New York yesterday.

Japanese Internees Want To Return - Attorney General Francis J. Biddle says
in a Newark, N.J. speech that 5,000 Japanese in the Tule Lake, California
relocation camp have applied for repatriation to Japan.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 [email-masked]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 07:57:45 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA, Spitfire Pilot's Burial

    It's a real shame that in doing the right thing, the rescuer has to pay
    the price for the RAF's bureaucratic reluctance to recover one of their
    own.

    Steve New
    [email-masked]
    Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:11:33 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Soviet Aircraft

    This week's offering on Weekday Wings (Discovery Channel 18:00 EDT)
    consists of episodes of Wings of the Red Star.

    Wednesday they had the fighters.  Beautiful color footage (360 degree
    pans and interiors) of I-16, La-7, Yak-9 and Mig-3 from the Monino
    Aircraft Museum.

    Now I know what colors to use to finish the La-7 I've been saving.
    Maybe, if I'm lucky, they'll do a Wings of the Polish and Romanian Air
    Forces.  Then I'll learn how to finish the PZL P-11c and IAR 80 I just
    bought.

    Steve L. New
    [email-masked]
    Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:14:47 -0500
From:    "Peter I. Hidas" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

The World at War British film series on the Second World War has a
segment on the atomic bomb where the last minute attempt by junior
officers to prevent the broadcasting the emperor's surrender message
is described.
Peter I. Hidas, Montreal
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:40:16 EST
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

>>I am curious how hitler had anything todo with the assigning of medals during
>>the olympics in the first place?  Was there not an olympic committee to deal
>>with awards?
>
John said:
>He didn't.  Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he personally
>presented the medals to some of the winners, but refused to do that for the
>black runners.

Of that, J. Owens and others who were "denied" Hitler's presence can be proud.

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 09:33:17 -0500
From:    S94005525 Coloniel Daniel Kovacs <[email-masked]>
Subject: <No subject given>

unsuscribe Coloniel Daniel Kovacs

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 17:02:10 +0300
From:    Ozgur Altinyay <[email-masked]>
Subject: Anti-ship missiles

Hello , my comrades-in-internet !
I am trying to find results about the use of anti-ship missiles in the WW II. I know that the Germans used the FX and US had a project under development. However through the limited sources here in Turkey , I am unable to find more than
se. I also rember from my memory that the Russian took the FX designs
after the war , and improved it . The SS-3 sytx of Eilat fame being the result
of those studies. I would liek to know more about the use of anti-ship missiles
by all sides in WW II. Does anyone know about this ? I am sure someone must , especially in this list.

PS. I know that this is not the place , but I would also like to get informationabout the use of soviet anti-shipp missiles in the war of 1973.

Ozgur Altinyay
altinyay
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:29:15 EST
From:    "Dennis E. Sparks" <[email-masked]>
Subject: B-29s on the Hiroshima mission

Here's a little more information on the B-29s mentioned in Jack's
post on the aircraft used in the atomic bomb mission to Hiroshima.

Prior to the "Enola Gay"'s departure from Tinian, three other B-29s
of the 509th Composite Group were on their way to Japan to
determine the weather over the primary target of Hiroshima, the
secondary target (Kokura?), and the tertiary target of Nagasaki.
The three aircraft were named "Straight Flush", "Full House", and
"Jabbit".  "Straight Flush", piloted by Claude Eatherly, reached
Hiroshima at 7:30 AM and reported by radio to Tibbets, flying 45
minutes behind him.

Two other B-29s accompanied "Enola Gay" to Hiroshima.  "The Great
Artiste", flown by Chuck Sweeney, was fitted with scientific
instruments, while B-29 No. 91, flown by George Marquadt, carried
cameras and observers.  (I'm uncertain if the aircraft was merely
number 91 or was named "No. 91".)

BTW, Jack mentioned that "Enola Gay" carried a large "R" in a circle
on its vertical tail surface when it dropped Little Boy.  That is
correct, but there's a story about that also.  Circle R was the
insignia of another B-29 unit on Tinian (6th BG?), with the 509th's
B-29s carrying a forward-pointing arrowhead inscribed in a circle.
When the group arrived in May-June 1945, they began flying single
plane missions, dropping "pumpkins", which was a bomb casing shaped
like the second (plutonium) bomb, Fat Man.  The second bomb was
a much more rotund shape than conventional bombs, with different
aerodynamic properties.  For these single plane missions, these
casing were loaded with conventional high explosives, with the bomb
weighing in at the same 9000 lbs. that the plutonium bomb would weigh.
When Tokyo Rose began making comments about the B-29s with the
arrowheads that could only drop one bomb, the 509th repainted
the tail insignia, adopting the markings of some of the other B-29
groups as a sort of camoflage.  "Bock's Car", which dropped the
second bomb, wore a triangle "N" on 9 August 1944.  Photographs of
"Enola Gay" made after the war show that the circle R was removed
and the original circle/arrowhead re-applied.

Sweeney was chosen to drop the second bomb.  Since his "Great Artiste"
was still outfitted with instruments, he switched aircraft with
Fred Bock.  Bock flew "Great Artiste" and Sweeney flew "Bock's Car".
("Bock's Car", complete with the nose art applied after the mission,
now resides at the USAF museum at Wright Patterson AFB near Dayton,
Ohio.)

I strongly recommend reading "Enola Gay" by Gordon Thomas and Max
Morgan Witts (ISBN 0-8128-2150-5).  It has a detailed account of
both missions.  Of particular interest to me is the second mission,
where practically everything that could go wrong did.  I had the
good fortune to meet Paul Tibbets on 6 Aug 1993, and I asked him
several questions about the second mission.  He ended discussion
of that subject by saying something to the effect of, "Those boys
f**ked up.  If they'd done what I told them to do, they wouldn't
have had any problems.", which I find very curious, as many of the
problems encountered were (IMHO) not due to errors in judgement by
Sweeney and company.

A curious note regarding what could be considered as PC with regards
to building plastic model aircraft.  Monogram produces a 1/48th
scale B-29, complete with both Little Boy and Fat Man A-bombs.  As
originally released, the kit featured a decal sheet with both
"Enola Gay" and "Bock's Car" on it.  The kit is still available,
still contains the bombs, but no longer has the same decal sheet.
Nor (to my knowledge) are aftermarket decals available for these two
aircraft.  Superscale decals offers a sheet of 509th Group aircraft
that includes "The Great Artiste" and "Straight Flush", but not
the two A-bomb carriers.

Dennis E. Sparks
[email-masked]
Lexington, Kentucky

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:12:16 +0001
From:    Ira H Krakow <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

   An interesting sidebar to the racial overtones of the 1936 Olympics
was the compliance, at the "suggestion" of the German Olympic Committee,
of the U.S. Olympic Committee *not* allowing the Jewish relay runners
Marty Glickman and Sam Stoller to compete.  Avery Brundage was head of
the USOC at the time and he had some anti-Semitic tendencies.  Marty
Glickman and Sam Stoller had posted the best times but that didn't
seem to matter when pleasing the Olympic hosts.

Ira Krakow
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 11:05:30 EST
From:    William Lippert <[email-masked]>
Subject: Olympics

Hitler's response, as far as I can recall from various documentaries and
written accounts (such as Speer's "Inside the Third Reich") was that
Hitler was enraged that Blacks had been allowed to compete in the games.
It wasn't so much that he was upset that the "Master Race" wasn't so
masterful, but he viewed blacks as only a step up from wild animals.
"Of course they were faster!  But a cheetah's faster than an Aryan, too,
you know.  It isn't fair that these animals be allowed to race with real
humans."  That was the context of what he said, I think.

I don't know that he tried to downplay the games at all as they were, no
matter what, an important showcase for German society and modernization.
The Olympics, for Germany, were more than games; it was a chance to show
the world that Germany was a prosperous, industrial, and most importantly
under control nation.  The days of riots and putsche's were gone.  Peace
and happinness, except for the Jews, was now the status quo.  The loss
of the races to blacks was only a minor setupback and, in the end I think,
not profound in the image of peace and strength that Hitler was trying to
project to the world.

William Lippert
The American University

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:10:25 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc)

in regards to the BREMEN---

BREMEN (fourth liner with this name), built AG Weser, Bremen 1929.
       Norddeutscher Lloyd line; sister ship to EUROPA (built 1930)
       displacement 51,731 tons; 27.50 knots (did 28.50 knots on trials)
       crew of 944; accommodations for 723 1st, 600 tourist, 908 3rd class

BREMEN slipped out of New York harbour sans passengers the night of
August 30th, 1939, successfully eluded a British cruiser that had been
positioned off New York with the express hope of seizing a Very Valuable
War Prize, did an "end run" north of Scotland and arrived at Murmansk on
September 6th (VERY speedy liner...)  From Murmansk she made her way back
to Bremen by hugging the Norwegian coast, finally returning home on
December 10th, after narrowly escaping the sights of HMS SALMON, a
British submarine encountered en route.

BREMEN was taken over by the German Kriegsmarine along with other liners
in June 1940 to be converted to a troop transport for the upcoming
invasion of England (Sea Lion), but fitting out proceeded only
halfheartedly and was finally abandoned.  While anchored in Bremerhaven
on March 18th, 1941 the ship was set afire by a youthful member of her
crew in what appears to have been a personal feud with another cremember
rather than any sort of politically-motivated act of sabotage; the whole
affair remains mysterious.  The burning ship was scuttled to prevent
further fire damage, but subsequently found to have been damaged beyond
repair.  She was stripped down to the waterline soon afterwards, with the
remainder of the hull broken up in 1953.

Information compiled from:

Nicholas T Cairis, PASSENGER LINERS OF THE WORLD SINCE 1893 (rev ed, 1979)

CR Vernon Gibbs, PASSENGER LINERS OF THE WESTERN OCEAN (2nd ed, 1957)

and some bits & pieces from the Time-Life series on WW2

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:35:16 -0800
From:    Ellen Shepard <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

You wrote:

>
>I am sorry about the bad translation of my name, but I was
>using an old (vacuum tube driven?) vax unix system.  I have read
>in an article, plus on my dish (channel G4 21) Arts + Entertainment
>is having a program in the next week or so relating to pre 40's olympic
>games, which I will try to catch.
>
>Many thanks,
>Col. Daniel Kovacs
>
>

thanks for the info.  Can you please let me know the date that it
is scheduled to play.

i understand that the olympic games that was
scheduled during wwii was cancelled.  do you have any info
on that?

Thank you
Ellen Shepard

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:48:35 -0800
From:    Ellen Shepard <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MISC: Italian trivia

if you are interested in info regarding the italian pow's, read "italian
prisoners of war in america; 1942-1946" by louis e. keefer, praeger
publishers, ny, ny.

i would like to contact any of the women who were in contact with the
italian pow's during the war for a documentary that i am producing.

here's a bit of info:  once in the us, the pow's were placed in 27 camps in
23 different states with each camp accomodating 1,000-3,000 prisoners.
 in all, the us held about 50,000 italian pow's.  many pow's worked as labor
on farms.   some pow's were allowed to attend local dances and some trips
 off base to places such as ny.  a number of pow's married american girls.

Ellen shepard
producer
"memories from the women of world war II'

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:11:07 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

        John, there is a pretty good and very reasonable short account of
that coup attempt in John Toland's "Rising Sun."  I don't recall the details
but if you can't easily obtain a copy and no one else on the list responds I'd
be happy to look it up and transcribe it for you if you give me a couple of
days.

Regards

Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:19:45 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

        To Cassady Craft:
        According to Ugaki's diary, an English version of which has been
published in the last few years, he did indeed take off on his suicide mission
after the announcement of the surrender.  He left behind a "death haiku" that
roughly translates as follows
        "having a dream, I went up into the sky"

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:22:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: B-29s on the Hiroshima mission

 Dennis E. Sparks writes:

Snip, snip
 >
 >BTW, Jack mentioned that "Enola Gay" carried a large "R" in a circle
 >on its vertical tail surface when it dropped Little Boy.  That is
 >correct, but there's a story about that also.  Circle R was the
 >insignia of another B-29 unit on Tinian (6th BG?), with the 509th's
 >B-29s carrying a forward-pointing arrowhead inscribed in a circle.
 >When the group arrived in May-June 1945, they began flying single
 >plane missions, dropping "pumpkins", which was a bomb casing shaped
 >like the second (plutonium) bomb, Fat Man.  The second bomb was
 >a much more rotund shape than conventional bombs, with different
 >aerodynamic properties.  For these single plane missions, these
 >casing were loaded with conventional high explosives, with the bomb
 >weighing in at the same 9000 lbs. that the plutonium bomb would weigh.
 >When Tokyo Rose began making comments about the B-29s with the
 >arrowheads that could only drop one bomb, the 509th repainted
 >the tail insignia, adopting the markings of some of the other B-29
 >groups as a sort of camoflage.  "Bock's Car", which dropped the
 >second bomb, wore a triangle "N" on 9 August 1944.  Photographs of
 >"Enola Gay" made after the war show that the circle R was removed
 >and the original circle/arrowhead re-applied.

This is part of a post I sent last year that amplifies Dennis'
post.

The 509th was attached to the 313th Bombardment Wing (Very Heavy)
and all B-29s assigned to this wing carried a letter in a circle on
the vertical tail surfaces as an identification marking.  Initially,
the 509th applied a forward facing arrow in a circle to their B-29s
however, in order to keep the existence of this special group secret,
the markings were changed in Jul 45 to markings already assigned to
other groups of the Twentieth Air Force.  The markings applied were:

  1. "A" without a geometric figure of the 497th Bombardment Group
     (Very Heavy), 73d Bombardment Wing (Very Heavy).
  2. "N" in a triangle of the 444th Bombardment Group (Very Heavy),
     58th Bombardment Wing (Very Heavy); and
  3. "P" in a square of the 39th Bombardment Group (Very Heavy), 314th
     Bombardment Wing (Very Heavy);
  4. "R" in a circle of the 6th Bombardment Group (Very Heavy), 313th
     Bombardment Wing (Very Heavy).

It is believed that each of these markings were applied to three B-29s
of the 509th so that when pairs of 509th aircraft flew recon missions
over Japan, they could not be identified as a unique unit.  An expert
can tell that some of the markings applied to the 509th aircraft are
not identical to those applied to the "real" unit.

Another tipoff that these markings were false was the aircraft number
assigned to each aircraft.  All of the other B-29 groups in the
Marianas used aircraft number below 70 or 75 but the B-29s of the 509th
carried numbers between 72 and 95.  Known numbers are 72, 73, 77, 82,
83, 85, 86, 88, 89, 91 and 95.  The number was painted in the normal
size and position as other groups, i.e., 36 inches (91.4 cm) high on
the rear fuselage and 15 inches (38.1 cm) high just aft of the
bombardier's position.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 18:30:27 +0000
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Olympics - The torch

I have read that the German Olympic Committee invented the torch and the
run with it to light the Olympic fire, and that the story on how the
Greeks also had the torch and fire is just a myth developed to take the
credit away from the Germans.
    I dont have the book with me but I think
it's called "Wolf's Shadow" or something like that written by one Brit
and an American, the Brit was in wartime military intelligence so I
doubt he is some neo-nazi :) I can get the book's correct title and the
names of the authors (it's a fiction but has some interesting stories
and backgrounds of the characters in the last section.) if anyone wants it.

Anyone seen this as well?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gudmundur J. Helgason                              e-mail: [email-masked]
Olduslod 41
220 Hafnarfjordur                                   Maintainer of ICELAND.FAQ
ICELAND
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 14:02:20 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Arctic convoys-- a question

        I've been reading a book called "With The Fleet," purporting to be the
wartime diaries of Admiral Arseny Golovko, the commander of the Soviet Navy's
Northern Fleet throughout the Second World War.  As Soviet memoir literature of
the period goes (IMHO), its pretty good stuff, not as dry as some (for
instance, Admiral Isakov's short account of the naval war) and not as divorced
from reality.  In fact, very realistic in its portrayal of Soviet difficulties
and losses in this unforgiving Arctic theatre.  Anyway, my question is this:
Golovko is understandably critical of some of the Allied efforts in connection
with the Arctic convoys to Murmansk, particularly around the period of PQ-17.
He mentions some instances of rather embarrassing incidents of US merchant
crews putting self-preservation above the deliverance of supplies to the
Soviets (I'm just summing up what Golovko says-- I myself am aware of the
sometimes fantastic sacrifices and difficulties sailors on this route endured).
I've read the Morrison volume regarding the Arctic convoys, and he does support
Golovko's contention that sometimes the merchant crews were less than willing
to risk their all for Uncle Joe-- in fact, Morison goes into even greater
detail than Golovko in terms of supplying examples.  However, Golovko makes
another complaint (repeatedly) which I wondered if anyone on the list can
verify.  He says it was a fairly common practice in '42-'43 for Allied escorts
to sink damaged merchantmen rather than try to bring the ships through.  I'm
assuming that, if this did happen more than once or twice (Golovko claims it
was pretty much standard procedure), it was done with ships so badly
incapacitated that they were unable to keep up with the convoy, in the
interests of saving the crew (another explanation that comes to mind is to
prevent damaged vessels from leaving tell-tale oil slicks or smoke from fires
to lead U-boats and Ju-88's to the convoy).  But can anybody confirm this
practice??  I am also aware that in the convoys to Malta many badly damaged
ships that fell out of the convoy were still able to crawl into Malta on their
own, often several days behind the main effort.

Thanks in advance for any help

Mike Yaklich

PS: To John Ausland
If you want me to post that info from Toland about Japanese anti-surrender coup
attempts please drop me a line.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:08:05 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW II Mysteries

Hello, Allan!

Thanks for the note.

 The book is perhaps the best book I have ever read, but
> is it
> reliable?

    I am familiar with this book as I have a German edition of it. I
haven't read it, and cannot vouch for its reliability, but, if I
understand you correctly, Hitler drove Stalin into a war for which he
was not prepared. Yes, but if the other way around, I doubt that.
Hitler was surprised at going to war over Poland, but was ready for
it. Halder, as chief of the General Staff, had put approved the plan
that had won the war with Poland before the first shot was fired.

    After your post, I will look into it. This book was given me by a
friend overseas, and I haven't had time to read it.

    Thank you, again for the post, and please stay in touch.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:11:34 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Trivia, Decks

Hello, Burt!

> One thing I remember reading was that when the British Fleet sent their
> carriers to the Pacific in 1945, they became PART of a US task force and a
> Kamikaze attacked one of the carriers with a 500 kG bomb. They hosed off the
> wreckage and there was a one inch deep dent in the flight deck where the plane
> hit. No other damage. A US carrier could have been put out of action for
> several weeks until repairs were done. The Brits just kept going... BWK

    That is all very true, but British carriers were noticeably
slower as a result of those armored flight decks, and as a result,
the American fleet to which they were attached had to slow down to
keep pace with the slower Brits. That was the one drawback, in my
view.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:12:49 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: <No subject given>

Hello, Alfredo!

 I have a book at home, the name escapes me for the time being, that
will answer all your questions about the Bismarck.

    More later.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:19:29 -0600
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Olympics

Has anyone ever read of the Nazi's using early television to promote their
image, especially of the Olympics?  Someone once told me of public viewing
rooms or auditoriums where prestige events like the Olympics were broadcast
for all to see.  Not only did it enhance the racial image of Aryans, but
it also demonstrated the German scientific superiority.

(As the youngest of 6 children, I have a tendency to believe everything
people tell me.  I'm still having problems with that Santa Claus thing.)

Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 14:51:55 EST
From:    Mary Hricko <[email-masked]>
Subject: Query: Ahenerbe

Hello everyone!

      I recall a series of postings on the SS, but can't remember if
there was any mention of a subdivision on the SS called "Deutche
Ahenerbe." This group was headed by Untersturmfuhrer Wolfram Sieverts
and was put under SS control in 1939. I am interested in any info on
Sieverts and this group. Thanks.

                                Regards - Mary

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 19:55:08 +0000
From:    Nechama Cox <[email-masked]>
Subject: Question on Economic Warfare

Hi!  I am writting my dissertation on American and English Economic Warfare
during the Second World War, at the University of London.

Having recently (yesterday) read an obituary of a woman who worked on the
US Board of Economic Warfare and who was married to a man who worked for
the UK Ministry of Economic Warfare, it occured to me that there might be a
way for me to find out the "availability" people who worked on the Allied
Economic War effort whom I might be able to meet with and that this might
help my research efforts.

Can anyone suggest some place where such people might be listed or anyone
they know who might be interested in talking to a graduate student?

Thanks in advance,

Nechama Cox
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:06:53 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

The *original* question that started this thread was specifically
about the Olympic Games that were scheduled for 1940 but cancelled
because of the outbreak of the Second World War.

The well-known Jessie Owens/Adolph Hitler incident was not an issue.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:08:49 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Anti-ship missiles

The Royal Air Force made great use of rockets ["missiles"] against
enemy shipping. The principal aircraft using this mode of attack
was the Bristol Beaufighter of RAF Coastal Command.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:18:39 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MISC: Italian trivia

Ellen...
        Italian prisoners of war were a commonplace sight on the streets
of Britain during the Second World War.
        Large numbers of them were employed (voluntarily) as farm
laborers, of which there was a great shortage owing to military conscription of
young British males.
        Italian PXs were considered "low risk" and given a remarkable level
of freedom of movement, even while Italy was still an Axis enemy.
        [German PWs began to be allowed similar freedom of movement during
the last two years of the war, when they too were commonly seen strolling aroundUK towns and going to the movies. Though there were no acts of violence towards
German PWs on pass, sight of them could be irritating to British civilians.]
        Italian PWs were seen as likeable and innofensive -- and pretty
popular with the girld over there.  Quite a number married British girls,
many settling down in the UK afterwards.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 14:42:40 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

Hello, John!

 > > I have read somewhere that the Japanese military attempted to
prevent
> > Japan's surrender, even though the Emporer had ordered it.  Can anyone
> > provide me with some details on this?

    You may also read this in detail in the book called "Japan's
Longest Day" and the author escapes me. A very interesting story, in
that a concerted effort was made by the young right-wing extremist
faction of the Japanese army to find and destroy the recording the
Emperor had made announcing Japan's decision to surrender.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:41:32 -0500
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Query: Ahenerbe

>Hello everyone!

>      I recall a series of postings on the SS, but can't remember if
>there was any mention of a subdivision on the SS called "Deutche
>Ahenerbe." This group was headed by Untersturmfuhrer Wolfram Sieverts
>and was put under SS control in 1939. I am interested in any info on
>Sieverts and this group. Thanks.

                                Regards - Mary

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

There is an excellent book, unfortunately as yet untranslated into English:

        Kater, Michael H. DAS AHNENERBE DER SS. Deutsche Verlags Anstalt,
                1974.

Wolfram Sievers was indeed "business manager" of the Ahnenerbe and was tried,
convicted, and hanged by the Americans for "crimes against humanity."

Hope this helps.

-- Warren Thompson

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:00:12 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Query: Swastika

Hello, Todd!

> I have read here at the current university that I am attending that the
> Swastika had some kind of religious significance.  That is was the strange
> symbol for an Aryan cult or order that Hitler was a member of from the
> time he was rejected as an artist.  I could get more info, because I don't
> have it right here in front of me.  If anyone is interested in this issue,
> we can pursue it.  It is quite fascinating to find out what made a man
> like Hitler tick

That is true. It was originally an Indian symbol that was adapted.

Hope this helps.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:00:41 -0500
From:    chris garcia <[email-masked]>
Subject: Question: German fighter gunsights

I've been trying to get an idea of how standard reflector gunsights
worked.  That is, how did a pilot use them to track a moving  target and
hit it?  I'm particularly interested in the German Revi 13 Reflector
gunsight which was used on the Me163 and was probably standard on many
other messerschmitt planes.  My best guess is that the gunsight projected
a dot of light on a plate of glass arrangedat an angle over the light
lens, and that somehow the pilot manuvered his plane to put the dot on
the moving aircraft in front of the gunsight.  I've been discussing this
with someone from the Usenet "Rec.Aviation.Military" group and he
mentions an especialy sophisticated american sight on the Mustang called
the K-14 "Ace Maker".  Luftwaffe ace Johannes Steinhoff in one of his
books describes his own attacks on B-17's flying an Me262 jet using a
"gyroscopic" sight especially developed for high speed attack air craft.
What in the world is a gyroscopic gunsight?  His description sounds like
the light spot wandered around on the glass by the movements of the jet.
   But I'm really curious about the Revi reflector sight if anyone
knows.  Thanks.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:13:17 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

Hello, Scott!

Great post. Just wanted to add a thought.

> pg 149: "On January 25, 1945,...Eisenhower made up his mind. Out
> of forty thousand deserters apprehended by the military police,
> of whom 2864 had been tried and sentenced to anything from twenty
> years to death, he must pick one man and make an example of him."
> (refering to the execution of Pvt. Slovak, who had deserted from
> the 28th ID in the Hurtgen battle and refused to return to duty).

    Actually it was General Norman Cota, the division commander to
which Slovik was assigned, who had to approve, forward this through
channels, and once approved, carry out the sentence.

    All the best.

    Terry

 >
> Scott.
> Scott Hannon, Thu Dec 8 1994 ([email-masked])
>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:15:22 -0600
From:    Terrence Lindell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

An account of the last-minute efforts of young military officers to
seize the recording of Hirohito's surrender message can be found in
The Pacific War Research Society, comp., _Japan's Longest Day_ (Tokyo,
New York & San Francisco:  Kodansha International Ltd., 1968.

Terry Lindell
Wartburg College
Waverly, Iowa  50677
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:24:46 -0500
From:    Lee Windsor u <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Trivia, Decks

>     That is all very true, but British carriers were noticeably
> slower as a result of those armored flight decks, and as a result,
> the American fleet to which they were attached had to slow down to
> keep pace with the slower Brits. That was the one drawback, in my
> view.
>
>     Terry
>
In addition to the slower speed, is it not true that the British carriers
had a smaller compliment of aircraft than their US counterparts due to
the weight of the armoured flight deck.  I guess it is indicative of a
general British trend to ensure that what equipement they had would last
given, their limited resources.  This applied not only to seapower but in
the air in terms of night bombing and on the ground in Northwest Europe
when we think of the policy of not putting an infantryman in where a
shell could go.

Just my thoughts

Semper Fi

Lee W.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:43:39 -0500
From:    Mike Bechthold <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW II Mysteries

Hi Allan,

Concerning Viktor Suvorov's book "Icebreaker," the short answer is that
it is not very reliable.

The main argument of the book is that Stalin was the sole instigator
behind the outbreak of the Second World War.  Stalin agreed to the
Nazi-Soviet Pact of August 1939 in order to give Hitler the confidence
that the Soviet Union would not interfere in his plans for the conquest
of Europe.  Stalin believed that a German attempt at conquering Europe
was a necessary precursor to a world communist revolution.  Once Hitler
had overextended himself, Stalin would unleash the Red Army to dominate
Europe himself.  Hence the title of the book:  Hitler was to be the
"Icebreaker of the Revolution."

In chapter after chapter, Suvorov presents a multitude of evidence to
show that the Red Army was ready for just such a campaign.  He points to
such factors as the abolition of security zones, the creation of airborne
corps, the winged tank, the Mark BT tank and the creation of enormously
powerful shock armies whose dispositions clearly indicated an offensive
intent.  On the surface, this evidence seems very solid.  However, the
analogy of a paper house fits Suvorov's book quite well.  From a distance
the house appears as study as any of its wood or brick neighbours.  A few
steps closer and it becomes apparent that the structure is not a sturdy
as it appears.  Closer still and you can see tremors run up the wall with
each approaching footfall.  When standing right beside it, a simple knock
on the door send that entire house crashing to the ground.

The sources used by Suvorov are almost all secondary in nature.  The
primarly sources consulted are all low grade, and often written long
after the end of the war.  The sources do not come close to supporting a
thesis as radical as that put forth by Suvorov.  It would seem that this
is a book that has been written from the perspective of hindsight.  It
may have been that at some point Stalin intended to attack Germany, but
it is not a realistic assessment of the situation in 1941 to conclude
that Operation Barbarossa was a preemptive attack designed to forestall a
Soviet invasion of Germany.

Hopes this helps to clear matters up.

Mike Bechthold
Wilfrid Laurier University
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 17:09:16 EST
From:    Paul Gregor <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 50TH: SMITHSONIAN AND HIROSHIMA

Jack and others:

Thanks for the additiional postings on the B-29 A-bomb raids.  I wanted to
find out some additional things about the composite groups but subsequent
posts answered the bulk of my questions for now.  As our listowner says in
his help memo, members of this group are very sharp and you could end up with
egg on your face if you don't get your facts straight...I've already come
dangerously close to sucking an egg or two already. Unfortunately, I'm
pretty busy in grad. school and don't get to read as much as I'd like. The
list serves as my daily infusion.  That's why I keep fudging and saying
"I think" instead of being more definitive...hopefully you guys will keep
on top of me.

Having blabbed on about that,can any of you out there tell me the where-
abouts of General Yeager, Sweeney, Tibbits, or Alan Sheppard? I assume they
are all still extant, and would someday (being a book collector) oops- like
to have them inscribe some books for me if I catch them at an airshow, talk,
etc....

                                           Thanks all for the info

                                            Paul Gregor
                                            Kent State

                                         P S getting ready to post
                                         another query

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 17:27:39 -0500
From:    Lee Windsor u <[email-masked]>
Subject: Query:  Japan/US relations

Hello Ben!

One of my classmates is currently working on a comparative review of John
Dower's "War Without Mercy" and Akira Iriye's "Power and Culture".

Does anyone know of any recent comparative works that focus on the
differences in politics and culture between the US and Japan during the
war.

Thanks in advance

Semper Fi

Lee W.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:31:40 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc)

Erich Groner's GERMAN WARSHIPS 1815-1945, VOLUME ONE: MAJOR SURFACE VESSELS
(Naval Institute Press, 1990)

has a chapter on "auxiliary aircraft carriers, 1942-1943" (pp73 ff.)

which has some GORGEOUS line drawings (1:1200 scale) of such mythical
beasties as (I'm copying here)

I (ex Europa)

`Jade' class (consisting of JADE and ELBE)

`Weser' class (that's the ex-cruiser SEYDLITZ, sister ship of the former
               LUTZOW that sat off Kronstadt as a Soviet floating
               battery-cum-hulk during the war)

and even--

II (ex- De Grasse)   (yes, a design utilising the French cruiser that the
                      Germans captured incomplete at Lorient in 1940-- like,
                      really WOW, man....)

Now, I don't know if I'll have the time to try and transcribe any of this
data in the feasible future, so if anyone else has access, feel free.
Otherwise, well, be patient.  I'll TRY and squeeze it in somehow.

Alas, nothing on any plans the Royal Romanian Navy might have had for
aircraft carriers.  Seaplanes seem to have been their limit....

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:41:46 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

I haven't had a chance to do much digging on this, but I do recall from
related research from many years ago that Finland invested heavily into
building facilities for the 1940 Olympics that were to be held in
Helsinki.  ,I have some dim memory that one of the structures servced
some military purpose during the war, but will need more time to verify
this' it's been a LONG time since that FinnEm military ops feasibility
study back in my student days-- the notes are way, way, WAY back in file
drawers....

          Suomi!

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 13 Jan 1995 00:23:18 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Anti-ship missiles

On Thu, 12 Jan 1995, Ozgur Altinyay wrote:

> I am trying to find results about the use of anti-ship missiles in the
> WW II. I know that the Germans used the FX and US had a project under
> development. However through the limited sources here in Turkey , I am
> unable to find more than
> se. I also rember from my memory that the Russian took the FX designs
> after the war , and improved it . The SS-3 sytx of Eilat fame being the
> result of those studies. I would liek to know more about the use of
> anti-ship missiles
> by all sides in WW II. Does anyone know about this ? I am sure someone
> must , especially in this list.

I don't know a specialized reference work for WWII missiles. Most of this
is from the 'Encyclopedia of Rockets and Missiles' by Bill Gunston.

The two German anti-ship missiles that reached service were the Henschel
Hs 293 and Fritz-X. Hs 293 was a rocket-powered glide bomb. Fritz-X or
FX-1400 was a guided armour-piercing bomb. The operational versions of
both had radio-link guidance.  Hs 293 was the first to sink a warship, the
sloop Egret, on 27 August 1943. The Fritz-X became infamous on 9 September
1943, when it sank the Italian battleship Roma. The Germans developed a
lot of other anti-ship missiles that did not reach service. The Blohm &
Voss Bv 143 had a 'feeling arm' beneath it to help it in skimming the
water towards it target; but this failed to work. GT 1200 was similar to
Hs 293, with a torpedo warhead to attack ships below the waterline. And
'Friedensengel' dropped a torpedo in the water for the final attack run.

The US developed the 'Bat' winged missile. 'Bat' was a winged bomb with
active radar homing. The program began in 1941 under the name 'Dragon',
and was intended against surface ships. In 1942 Dragon became 'Pelican',
with a depth charge as weapons load, but in 1943 switched back to attack
on surface targets. It became 'Bat' in 1944; it was called that way
because it steered on reflected radar pulses. Bat had a slightly swept
wing with a span of 3.05m, and weighed 853kg. It was carried by the PB4Y-2
Privateer and entered service in May 1945, sinking several Japanese ships.
It was -- with a modified radar -- also effective against bridges. A
similar weapon, Gargoyle, never entered service.

The USAF developed a number of guided bombs in the GB and VB series with
image-contrast seekers, only useful against ships. But I never heard of
any operational use of GB-4 or VB-5.

Italy also developed anti-ship missiles, but with little success. So did
Japan. One of the Japanese missiles used a quite interesting homing
technique: it detected the pressure waves of firing guns! Alledgedly it
worked well...

I don't see how Styx (SS-7 or SS-N-2, SS-3 is Shyster and SS-N-3
Shaddock) could be related to Fritz-X. Styx is a powered ship-to-ship
missile, while Fritz-X was a guided, air-dropped, unpowered bomb. The
shape is also very different. Little is known about the guidance of
Styx; early versions can have had a copy of German radio-command systems,
but it certainly was updated in later models.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 18:40:03 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ?Resources

A strong amen to DECISION BEFORE DAWN, both the movie and the novel.

And to go somewhat afield, for a surprisingly accurate and literate
intro to European diplomatic and political history of 1880-1918,
try THE FALL OF EAGLES in 13 episodes. BRAVO has been showing them
on cable TV and they may be purchaseable from the BBC (the Beeb has
a sales office in NYC, and I can get the address if anyone wants it.)
A *****MAJOR PLUS*****  of this series for today's highschoolers:
Capt. Jean-Luc Picard plays Lenin, and very well indeed- Stewart
has the intensity down right.

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 13 Jan 1995 00:45:26 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Trivia, Decks

On Thu, 12 Jan 1995, Lee Windsor u wrote:

> >     That is all very true, but British carriers were noticeably
> > slower as a result of those armored flight decks, and as a result,
> > the American fleet to which they were attached had to slow down to
> > keep pace with the slower Brits. That was the one drawback, in my
> > view.

> In addition to the slower speed, is it not true that the British carriers
> had a smaller compliment of aircraft than their US counterparts due to
> the weight of the armoured flight deck.  I guess it is indicative of a

Not *all* British carriers had armoured flight decks. Ark Royal, put to
sea in 1938, didn't --- she could carry 72 aircraft, at 22350 tons
displacement. Illustrious, Formidable, Victorious and Indomitable, had
armoured decks, and they could carry 36 aircraft at 23760 tons
displacement. Implacable and Indefatigable were enlarged to carry 54.

Certainly a high price to pay. But the British had to design their ships
for operations in the narrow, enclosed waters of the Mediterranean, were
they could be attacked at all time.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 18:51:47 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

I have a very vague recollection (ie- probably wrong) that the 1940
games were scheduled for Stockholm, and that the 1944 games were
never awarded as the war began in 1939 before the selection was
complete. Beyond this, I'm not sure what information would be                   available. You might try the US Olympic Committee for details.

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 19:30:28 EST
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: _A Soldier's Story_ excerpt

Omar Bradley wrote:

"On January 16, a little less than a month from the day Houffalize fell
to Rundstedt's columns, Hodges and Patton joined Armies in the rubble of
that tiny town. I had remembered it as a sleepy village on the side of a
hill, ten miles north of Bastogne on the macadam road to Liege. In the
gully below, a sawmill hummed through the tall, straight timber of the
Ardennes. A single intersection broke through the parallel row of stone
cottages that hugged the Liege road. To plug that intersection and deny
the enemy its east-west road, heavy bombers had demolished the town.
Bulldozers forcing their way north to make juncture with First Army
swept the charred rubble of Houffalize into the gapping bomb craters
left there by Allied air. Simple, poor, and unpretentious, the village
had offended no one. Yet it was destroyed simply because it sat astride
an undistinguished road junction. This road junction had made it a more
strategic objective than cities 50 times its size."

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 17:06:09 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

Pvt. Eddie Slovik was not "picked out pf 40,000 deserters to make an
example."

Slovik had deserted repeatedly -- three times before, been court-martialled
each time, and returned to unit in place of punishment.

Though there was a high incidence of desertion among US troops at the time,
the last six months of the war, no GI had been executed for desertion until
Slovik was shot by firing squad.

In fact, Gen. Eisenhower's only involvement was to countersign the
death sentence which had already been pronounced against Slovik. "Pour
encourager les autres", as the French so charmingly put it.
        ["To encourage the rest"]

--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 17:12:05 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 22d Hurtgen Epilogue

In all, 49 American servicemen were hanged after trial by courts-martial
for crimes committed on French soil after D-Day, June 6, 1944.

In the ETO [European Theatre of Operations] as a whole, 70 US soldiers
were executed up to October 31, 1945.  Most executions were for the
crimes of rape and murder.

The original number of US soldiers sentenced to death for capital crimes
in the ETO was much higher -- 443.  However, most of these sentences were
commuted to lengthy prison terms.

Pvt. Eddie Slovik was the only US soldier executed for desertion during WWII.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 20:16:56 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Olympics

Dear Tim,

The Germans did experiment with "theater" television technology and
several viewing rooms were established in major cities, but I'm not
sure whether they were set up in time for the Olympics.

Re Ira Krakow's point on Jewish athletes: several world class Jewish
athletes were also barred, for obvious reasons, from the German team.
I would be interested in knowing if this were true of any other team
than the Americans and the Germans. Brundage's anti-Semitism went
beyond "some," but he was a nut in general. He threw Eleanor Holmes,
one of the world's best divers, off the team because she drank
champagne on the voyage over.

Hnery Sirotin

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Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 20:24:23 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners (Romanian Carriers)

Dear Greg,

Didn't the Royal Romanian Navy cancel a twenty carrier program in
1936 because of the limitations of the Treaty of Montreaux?

Henry Sirotin

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Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 20:31:51 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Query: Swastika

Dear Todd and Terry,

To this day, a swastika, either aryan or reversed (Nazi style)- I have
seen both- is used on Asian maps to denote temples and religious sites.
The temples are usually Buddhist. I don't believe there is any particular
significance in this connection.

The standard, non-reversed, swastika was also used by southwest Amerindian
peoples.

Hnery Sirotin

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End of WWII-L Digest - 11 Jan 1995 to 12 Jan 1995
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