Subject: WWII-L Digest - 10 Jan 1995 to 11 Jan 1995

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 00:05:05 -0500

There are 50 messages totalling 1476 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. INF: USN Chronology 01-11-95
  2. INF: 50 Years Ago - 12-JAN-1945
  3. Trivia, Decks (3)
  4. Olympic Games (6)
  5. TRIVIA: Schindler's List
  6. Re[2]: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")
  7. Roechling ammunition
  8. Re[4]: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot") (2)
  9. WEAP: Preserving vintage CV, BB, etc. (3)
 10. TRIV:Roger Waters/Pink Floyd
 11. German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc) (5)
 12. WW II Correspondence Wanted (2)
 13. 50TH: SMITHSONIAN AND HIROSHIMA (3)
 14. JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP? (7)
 15. "Rommel Goggles"
 16. WW II Mysteries
 17. Former German Tall Ships. (2)
 18. German Tall Ships/Raiders
 19. <No subject given> (2)
 20. MISC: Italian trivia
 21. MEDIA: Spitfire Pilot's Burial 53 Years Late
 22. Japanese Military Attempt at Coup
 23. [INF] USAAF 11 JAN 45
 24. [INF] USAAF 12 JAN 45
 25. 11th Armored Div.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 04:00:16 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 01-11-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
01/11 Thu.  United States naval vessel sunk:
             Motor minesweeper YMS-14, by collision, Boston Harbor.
            United States naval vessels damaged, Philippine Islands
             area:
             High-speed transport BELKNAP (APD-34), by suicide plane,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             LST 270, by coastal defense gun,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.
             LST 700, accidentally by United States naval gunfire,
              16 d. 43'N., 119 d. 58'E.
             LST 918, by coastal defense gun,
              16 d. 20'N., 120 d. 10'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 04:25:34 -0800
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 12-JAN-1945

On 12-JAN-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the U.S. 1st Army sector, the 2nd Armoured Division
begins an offensive in the Houffalize-Laroche area, capturing Chabrehez Les
Tailles and Petite Tailles. Units of the 3rd Armoured Division cross the
Langlir River and clears Bois de Cedrogne. The 83rd Division completes the
capture of Petite Langlir and Langlir and gains a bridgehead south of the
Langlir-Ronce River. The 106th Division establishes a bridgehead across the
Ambleve River south of Stavelot. In the 3rd Army sector, the Germans
continue withdrawing. The 87th Division takes Tonny, Amberloup, Lavacherie,
Orreux, Fosset and Sprimont. The 17th Airborne Division recaptures
Flamierge. Units of the 6th Armoured Division captures Wardin. In the 7th
Army sector, the Germans have shifted from an aggressive offensive to a
stubborn defensive in the Bitche salient. Efforts of the 45th Division to
regain ground lost on the 11th are only partly successful. The 14th
Armoured Division attacks to relieve units of the 79th Division in Hatten
and Rittershoffen.

Eastern Front - Soviet forces open a powerful winter offensive. With heavy
artillery support the 1st Ukraine Front leads off, attacking west from the
Sandomierz bridgehead over the Vistula in southern Poland. The battle for
Budapest continues with the Red Army deepening the penetration in the city.

Philippines - The 40th Division takes Port Sual, without a fight and
continues west toward Alaminos. The 37th Division is consolidating its
line; elements move into Bayambang and Urbiztondo without opposition. In I
Corps sector, the 6th Division is ordered to conduct a holding action along
the line Malisiqui-Catablan-Torres while the 43rd Division is strengthened.
On Mindoro, the the 21st Infantry assembles at Pinamalayan for a drive on
Calapan where the Japanese are now concentrated. Guerrilla patrols reach
Wawa, on the north coast near Abra de Ilog.

South China Sea - TF 38 makes a surprise air attack on Japanese shipping
off French Indochina and on airfields and shore installations from Saigon
north to Tourane. The TF destroys some 40 ships and damages others.

Burma - In the XV Corps sector, the 3rd Commando Brigade lands on the
Arakan coast at Myebon and establishes a firm beachheard.

The Homefront
-------------
New Senator - Frank P. Briggs, Democrat from Macon, Mo. has been appointed
to the U.S. Senate to serve the remaining two years of the term of Harry S.
Truman, who will become Vice President on January 20th.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 [email-masked]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 07:43:51 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Trivia, Decks

     >Hello, Tim!

     >what was used for
     >> all the new construction during the war and for repairs to existing
     >> decks?  Was some other wood used, or were the decks really made of
     >> steel?

     >I know this was answered but, the British used all steel decks
     >which made their carriers heavier, slower, but more resistant to
     >battle damage.

     >Just a thought to add to your post.

     >All the best.

     >Terry

     There were advantages and disadvantages to steel decks.  They would
     weather the power of smaller, non armor-piercing explosives better
     than wood, but would act to contain the power of an armor-piercing
     explosive below decks, thereby multiplying the internal damage to the
     ship.

     Wooden decks didn't contain below-deck explosions to near the same
     extent, and, depending on the level of damage to the flight deck,
     could be repaired at sea more easily than a steel deck could.

    Steve L. New
    [email-masked]
    Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 07:48:21 CST
From:    Robert Hohlt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Trivia, Decks

All,

Where did I read that the British Aircraft Carriers because of their
steel decks turned into floating ovens when the ships were operating
in the tropical climates with that sun beating down on them?

Robert Hohlt, Jr.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 06:18:44 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

>From:         S94005525 Coloniel Daniel Kovacs <[email-masked]>
>Subject:      Re: Olympic Games
>
>I don't know about the ww2 olympics, but there was an olympic runner
>that was denied an award by Adolph Hitler due to his race.

You may be thinking of Jesses Owens and Ralph Metcafe (I think that's
right) in the 1936 Olympics.  Owens won four medals and set several
records, but Hitler refused to present the medals.  Owens was given the
medals, he just wasn't presented them by Hitler.

John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:21:19 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Schindler's List

Hello, William!

Sorry about the confusion, and I am glad I was able to help.

All the best.

As ever,

Terry

>     They were my questions and I thank you for answering them.  I guess
> I have to do some more studying of my collar and SS ranks.
>
> William Lippert
> The American University
>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:23:11 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")

Hello, William!

>    I'm very interested in Rommel - what does this mean?  Was someone selling
> his original goggles?  I thought they were locked in a house in Swabia, but
> that was some 20 years ago.

    The Rommel goggles are actually British. He found that the
British goggles were better than the German in that they allowed for
better all-round vision while wearing them, as opposed to the German
"eye-piece" style.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:33:13 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Roechling ammunition

Hello, Mike!

You are quite welcome. I was also fascinated by the info on this type
of ammunition, and it would have been interesting to see what effects
it would have had on other targets had it been used.

I appreciate your postings, Mike. They are always very informative.

All the best for a great New Year 1995, and please stay in touch.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:41:54 CST
From:    "SCHERRER, TIM" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[4]: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")

Ahh--no--these are the british sand goggles that Rommel wore on his
visor cap.  Actually a pretty common item.  TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:50:38 CST
From:    "SCHERRER, TIM" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Preserving vintage CV, BB, etc.

I've posted this before--the USS Inaugrial at St. Louis sank and
disappeared--no one seems to know what happened to it--Maybe Jesse
Carnes in Louisiana can keep an eye out for it as is goes out the mouth
of the Mississippi---she was lost in July or August of '93.

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:00:59 CCS
From:    Jorge Merino <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Preserving vintage CV, BB, etc.

> I've posted this before--the USS Inaugrial at St. Louis sank and
> disappeared--no one seems to know what happened to it

I understand that before that incident, USS Inaugural was carefully
and beautifully restored to her original WWII configuration and camo.
The other surviving WWII minesweeper, USS Hazard (AM-240, I believe),
is also beautifully restored. Both are Admiral class minesweepers, I
think. Hope USS Inaugural can still be recovered....

Does anyone of you know what future was decided for USS Cabot (CVL-28)?
I hope some association will take the wheel and preserve her, as she
is the last specimen of her class. Maybe the Intrepid museum association?

Jorge Merino

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:07:12 -0500
From:    Kevin Kamphaus <[email-masked]>
Subject: TRIV:Roger Waters/Pink Floyd

Several months ago(6?) there was some discussion about Roger Waters of Pink
Floyd fame. The basic thread was about his father and the content of some of his
lyrics pertaining to war. I finally got my Pink floyd book back after about 18
months and this is what it says:

"Eric Fletcher Waters, however, was long dead-gunned down in 1944 in Italy.
Waters senior was only thirty when he died, slain along with forty thousand
other British soldiers in a reckless British campaign to capture the bridgehead
of Anzio from the Nazis.  His third child, George Roger Waters, had been born
only a few months before, on September 9, 1943. One need look no further for the
original source of the chip on the shoulder that marked Waters throughout his
years with the Floyd-to say nothing of the militant antimilitarism that
increasingly cauterized his song lyrics. In Water's own terminology, the absence
of his father amounted to the first-and the worst-brick in his wall."

>From "Saucer full of Secrets  The Pink Floyd Odyssey" by Nicholas Schaffner
copyright 1991 Harmony Books  Reprinted without permission. Typos are mine.

If anyone is interested in Pink Floyd, I highly recommend this book. It is very
good.

Kevin Kamphaus
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 09:06:36 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc)

Checking both Frederick Emmmons' THE ATLANTIC LINERS: 1925-1970
(Bonanza, 1976) and Nicholas T Cairis' PASSENGER LINERS OF THE WORLD
SINCE 1893 (revised edition, Bonanza, 1979) I find no reference to any
German liner having been seized by the US or any other Allied power at
either the outbreak of the war or during wartime.

A number of liners did see wartime service with the Kriegsmarine, as
troop transports, barracks ships, and Baltic evacuation vessels; several
were lost (bombs, mines, torpedoes) and a couple ended up in Allied hands
AFTER the war, but not during.

The US DID use former German vessels during WW2, but these were liners
and auxiliary cruisers that had been seized from Germany during the First
World War; a good list of these appears in David H Grover's US ARMY SHIPS
AND WATERCRAFT OF WORLD WAR II (Naval Institute Press, 1987).

Anyone interested in these?

(and in case anyone's interested, yes, the Royal Romanian Merchant Marine
DID serve during the war; one of its finest coastal steamers was
outfitted as an auxiliary minelayer....but I digresss)

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:39:28 EST
From:    Roger Coon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc)

I believe that I recall correctly that 3 German liners were to be
converted to aircraft carriers along with an unfinished heavy cruiser.
Does anyone know if any work was done and have sketches been published
anywhere?
As always, thanks in advance,
Brad Coon

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 07:38:30 -0800
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc)

>
> Checking both Frederick Emmmons' THE ATLANTIC LINERS: 1925-1970
> (Bonanza, 1976) and Nicholas T Cairis' PASSENGER LINERS OF THE WORLD
> SINCE 1893 (revised edition, Bonanza, 1979) I find no reference to any
> German liner having been seized by the US or any other Allied power at
> either the outbreak of the war or during wartime.
>
> A number of liners did see wartime service with the Kriegsmarine, as
> troop transports, barracks ships, and Baltic evacuation vessels; several
> were lost (bombs, mines, torpedoes) and a couple ended up in Allied hands
> AFTER the war, but not during.

Greg - Did you by any chance see any specific mention of the Bremen? What
started all this is that I saw a show the other night about liners in general
and they had a part about the Bremen. I was just wondering what might have
happened to her during the war. I sure hope she was not sunk.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                Cary, North Carolina                 [email-masked]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:03:37 -0500
From:    Jim Delande <[email-masked]>
Subject: WW II Correspondence Wanted

Greetings to all,

Aspiring playwright is seeking letters from wives, girlfriends, mothers,
sisters, and daughters of World War II servicemen. In particular,
correspondence describing the conditions at home, how the contributions
of women assisted in the war effort, along with women's fears and hopes
about their loved ones safe return. Suggestions regarding appropriate
literature containing this type of correspondence would also be welcome.
This research will be used as the basis for the development of a musical
production. If you have any correspondence you would like to share,
your reply would be greatly appreciated. In deference to the members of
this list, please respond via private email. Those respondents who are
interested in receiving further information regarding this production
should indicate this in your reply.

Thank you in advance for your assistance!

Jim Delande
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:28:49 -0500
From:    S94005525 Coloniel Daniel Kovacs <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

I am curious how hitler had anything to do with the assigning of medals during
the olympics in the first place?  Was there not an olympic committee to deal
with awards?

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:21:03 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Stalingrad etc. (was Re: Movie "Das Boot")

        I vaguely recall reading somewhere that Rommel initially nabbed a pair
of Italian perspex goggles, the kind you see on the Italian "sun helmet" worn
by Bersaglieri and others in North Africa (part of standard Italian tropical
uniform).  Can anyone out there substantiate or debunk this??

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich  (interested in even the most menial details about the
Italians)

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 06:22:34 +0100
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: 50TH: SMITHSONIAN AND HIROSHIMA

  FOR MIKE FETTERS
  I read with interest your message about the Smithsonian and the
Hiroshima exhibit.  It is certainly understandable that the management
is concerned about what happened, and I am glad to see this.
  As you may know, I am a WWII veteran.  I have followed with great
interest the conflict over the exhibit.  It is only a part of the
problem of coming to terms with how to commemorate WWII.  I have noted
recently that the Japanese have asked not to be invited to the
September 2 event to commemorate the end of the war.  This is
regreable but understandable, given that Japanese have done so little
to reconcile themselves to their history.
  The Germans are also struggling with this question, and it will be
interesting to see how they come out.  Their task is a bit easier,
since they have done a better job than the Japanese of recognizing
what happened during the Nazi regime.
  As far as the US is concerned, there is clearly a generational
conflict here.  Not only is WWII two ancient history for most young
Americans, but the postwar period was complicated by the Viet Nam war.
  There is, however, another factor, which is more complicated.
Having a son who teaches at a university, I have followed with
particular interest the complex struggle over how to view our society
and history.  This has clearly found its way into the Smithsonian.
  I can illustrate this with an anecdote.  A person I know has some
business with the Smithsonian.  I asked this person to ask the people
working there what they thought about the Hiroshima affair.  Their
reply was, "Tell him that we have taken the Smithsonian away from his
generation and do not intend to give it back."  This was said at
dinner and partly in jest, but only partly.  After some discussion,
the Smithsonian people agreed that the staff at the Air and Space
Museum had "gone too far."
  From my point of view, the struggle over Hiroshima is healthy, and
there is merit in both points of view.  The use of the bombs against
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were terrible events, which happily have not
(yet at least) been repeated.  At the same time, the war did end
promptly after they were dropped, and Ben Frank and I did not find
ourselves wading ashore in Japan.  (What would have happened had they
not been used is a matter for speculation.)
  On the other hand, Hiroshima was followed by a terrifying build up
of nuclear weapons.  Having been involved both in our nuclear planning
and our efforts to bring this under control through the SALT process,
I consider the extent of this buildup both insane and unnecessary.
  It is proper that the Smithsonian draw attention to what happened at
Hiroshima and thereafter.  It should, as it is apparently now doing,
also remind people of what happened before Hiroshima.
  What is less clear to me is whether it is reminding people of the
alternatives.  I have in mind specifically the following: suppose that
after Hiroshima and Nagasaki the Japanese military had prevailed and
the war had continued.  No one writing a scenario for that can come to
a happy conclusion.  For had the war continued, Hiroshima and Nagasaki
would now be seen as relatively minor events in the destruction
of Japan and the death of a great many Americans.
  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo, Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:32:48 -0500
From:    S94005525 Coloniel Daniel Kovacs <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc)

Does anybody have any information on the long term exposure to radiation
caused from exposure to fallout from the hiroshima H-Bombing?

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 13:04:46 EST
From:    Paul Gregor <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 50TH: SMITHSONIAN AND HIROSHIMA

Somewhere, Lost in all the shuffle is the fact that conventional incendiary
raiding was doing far more damage-- the bomb evidently brought the notion to
the high command in Japan that we could now cause this destruction on a
single plane basis, even though we only had a few nuclear bombs at the time...
people who witness one of the bombings (i forget which ) saw the b-29 and
because there were only it and another for observation, thought it was a
recon mission...

                                                  Paul Gregor

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 13:21:36 -0500
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

Coloner David Kovacs asks;

>I am curious how hitler had anything to do with the assigning of medals during
>the olympics in the first place?  Was there not an olympic committee to deal
>with awards?

There is much about the present olympics that derives from the 1936 (or was
it 1938) olympics.

According to the book "The Nazi Olympics" (forgot the author) the olympic
song, and the tradition of running the flame from Greece were started then
for the purposes of glorifying the Nazi regime. OF course when Jesse Owens
showed Hitler up, he was quick to downplay the games importance.

Someone out there correct me if I'm wrong

                                                                Steve
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - [email-masked] |"Life may be a drag...
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |    But it sure beats the
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |       only known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 19:44:09 +0100
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

I have read somewhere that the Japanese military attempted to prevent
Japan's surrender, even though the Emporer had ordered it.  Can anyone
provide me with some details on this?

Regards, John Ausland

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:06:05 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

>I am curious how hitler had anything to do with the assigning of medals during
>the olympics in the first place?  Was there not an olympic committee to deal
>with awards?

He didn't.  Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he personally
presented the medals to some of the winners, but refused to do that for the
black runners.

John Riegsecker                                 (206) 756-3566
Dept of Mathematics and Computer Science        [email-masked]
University of Puget Sound

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 14:37:24 EST
From:    Brian Nicklas <[email-masked]>
Subject: "Rommel Goggles"

*** Resending note of 01/11/95 14:32
To: WWII    --CMSNAMES

From: Brian Nicklas
Subject: "Rommel Goggles"
WWII Ltd in St Louis, MO advertised these British Sand Goggles
years ago as "Rommel Goggles" using a photo of Rommel
wearing them atop the bill of his officers hat.
One of the Rommel bios described Rommel as having spotted
them among some supplies found during an advance in N Africa
His comment was said to have been,
"Booty - Permissable for even a general.  I will take them."
Seen in a lot of photos since then.  I do not have
the citation or a date this took place, sorry.
A few other Afrika Korps books with heavy use of illustrations
show German troops wearing these British goggles, probably
for the reason prev. mentioned - wider range of vision than the
small German sand/dust goggles.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 14:41:21 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Preserving vintage CV, BB, etc.

In reply to the mail from <[email-masked]>...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Much deleted
>
>I know that USS New Jersey (BB-62) and USS Missouri (BB-63) are now
>moored at Puget Sound, but I don't know anything about USS Iowa (BB-61)
>and USS Wisconsin (BB-64). Does anyone of you have info about the
>destination of these BBs? Apparently, USS Missouri is close to become
>a floating museum.
>
>Does anyone of you know what was the final decision about the preservation
>of USS Midway (CV-41)? She would be a nice museum too.
>
>My $0.02,
>
>Jorge Merino
>
Jorge,

The USS Iowa and the USS Wisconsin are berthed at the
Philadelphia Naval Base.  The base and the shipyard are slated
to close in 1996, when the overhaul of the USS John F. Kennedy
is completed.

There are rumors that the City of Philadelphia and the various
private concerns considering the shipyard site for commercial
use want to use the two battleships as display with the Inactive
Reserve ships berthed just inside the main gate.  But, doing so
means that the channel would have to be dredged to allow the
ships into that berthing site.

We will just have to wait and see about their fate as the time
for the closure of Naval Base and Shipyard draws closer.

Jim

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        [email-masked]
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 21:40:38 +0100
From:    Allan Myrvang <[email-masked]>
Subject: WW II Mysteries

Dear Terry,

Thanks for your answer, but allow me to follow up this with some more
questions. First the context :

>
>>I (Allan Myrvang) have heard
>> that this is true, but I cannot believe it. His intentions being
>that
>> Hitler would do the chores for him in Germany as well as Europe,
>and
>> when the conditions were ripe, then he would attack not only Germany,
>> but all Western-European countries. Can this be true?
>
>Robert T. Moore answers :
>
>    Yes and no. Stalin had feared this tactic would be used against
>him by the Western Allies in an attempt to get him or Germany to
>fight each other and then step in after all was over.
>

According to a Soviet general (GRU),who under the pseudonym of Viktor
Suvorow
has written the book "The Icebreaker -- Hitler in Stalin's
Calculations",
Stalin first helped Hitler, and then drove him into a war he was not by
far
ready to wage. The book is perhaps the best book I have ever read, but
is it
reliable?

Allan

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:54:24 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German Ocean Liners (wartime use, etc)

On January 20, 1945, a Soviet submarine sank the German liner,
WILHELM GUSTLOFF, in the Baltic Sea. More than 6000 soldiers and
civilian refugees were drowned, the worst single maritime disaster
of the Second World War.

S.A.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:56:56 EST
From:    Frozen In Western Michigan!! <[email-masked]>
Subject: Former German Tall Ships.

This is coming from hazy recollection, but isn't the Tall Ship
<something> Conrad, or Conrad <Something> the same ship that serves a
training function to the Norwegian Navy today (well, when I saw it in
1968, anyway), and was the star of the '60s movie "Windjammer?"

As I recall, it also had a German Navy past.

Bruce.

B. L. Werner
Big Rapids, Michigan
Where nothing is big or rapid.
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 13:00:50 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW II Correspondence Wanted

Jim Delande...
        In the event you have not already done so, you could benefit by
reading:

                THE GOOD WAR, by Studs Terkel
                WARTIME, by Paul Fussell
                LOVE, SEX, & WAR, by John Costello

Regards -- Sidney.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:00:48 EST
From:    Frozen In Western Michigan!! <[email-masked]>
Subject: German Tall Ships/Raiders

Now my interest is jogged, besides the (current) Eagle, were there
any German Tall Ships used as "raiders," a la "Atlantis?"

Bruce.

(Hmmm....  Before anyone calls me on my last post, the name Christian
Raditch now comes to mind for the Norwegian Tall Ship that starred in
"Windjammer.")  (Okay, did it have a Nazi past?)

Bruce (again)

B. L. Werner
Big Rapids, Michigan
Where nothing is big or rapid.
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:24:30 -0500
From:    S94005525 Coloniel Daniel Kovacs <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

I am sorry about the bad translation of my name, but I was
using an old (vacuum tube driven?) vax unix system.  I have read
in an article, plus on my dish (channel G4 21) Arts + Entertainment
is having a program in the next week or so relating to pre 40's olympic
games, which I will try to catch.

Many thanks,
Col. Daniel Kovacs

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:19:02 GMT+6
From:    Esaul Zermeno Bautista <[email-masked]>
Subject: <No subject given>

Fecha envio:    Tue, 10 Jan 1995 15:06:39 GMT-6
Enviar resp a:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
De:             "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Organizacion:   Amarillo College PCAD-ML
A:              Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

Hello, Alfredo!

>       I appreciate your help, tanks.

    Glad to have been of service. You might also try:

        History of the German Navy in World War Two by Erich P.
Von der Porten.

    Hope this helps, too. All the best.

    Terry

    Hello Terry !

          Thanks for you information, and  I have another question,
do you know were I could find some photograps about the battleship
Bismark , schemes and colors that were used by this ship.

    Thanks in advance.

    Alfredo.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:11:08 -0500
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: MISC: Italian trivia

Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]> writes:
> (interested in even the most menial details about the Italians)

        When I visited my folks over Christmas, I asked my father about
his stint in the Italian Army.  He dug out some old photos and showed
them to me.  He was born in 1922 and didn't join the Army until 1941
when he was 19.  He showed me some photos of himself and his buds that
were dated 1940 and they all seemed to be in uniforms.  He explained
that he was in the Fascist Youth and the photos were taken at their
one-month-per-year training camp.  His Fascist uniform had baggy pants
and a dark green tunic (it reminded me of Afrika Korp long pants and
tunic but darker).  Then he showed me his Army photos with his snazzy
uniform.  He then mentioned what happened to some of his friends in the
photos.  I took a few of these photos with me, so I may be able to scan
them in (I'm not sure what equipment is available at my site) and perhaps
some generous ftp site could make them available if there's any interest.
There's nothing too exciting in the photos -- just some guys mugging it
up for the camera, rarely with any equipment with them.
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
But my name is *Babara*!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:36:35 EST
From:    Cassady Craft <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

John, I cannot think of anything like a coup right offhand, but there are
several documented instances of Japanese servicemen continuing the fight
after the announcement was made that there would be a cease-fire.  For
instance, Sakai tells of shooting down a B-29 in a night mission after the
announcement (why would a B-29 be flying--leaflets?) in _Samurai_.  I believe
that Admiral Ukagi's suicide mission may have been after the announcement,
_The Last Kamakazi_ should confirm this.  Also, Hoyt's _Japan at War_ mentions
the sailing of submarines and suicide boats after the announcement.  I would
not be surprised if Gordon Prange (et al) has dealt with either coup or these
types of missions, although he may have only worked on Pearl Harbor and Midway
in his research.  As for the sources above, I must add a disclaimer because
of my growing uncertainty as to the veracity of my memory:  "I could be
wrong!" (and I hope if I am that someone closer to their sources will correct
me if I am).

Cassady Craft
e-mail [email-masked]
or
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 14:12:16 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA: Spitfire Pilot's Burial 53 Years Late

(From Weekly Telegraph, Jan 1/1995)

LAW DEFIED TO GIVE PILOT A FUNERAL

A military enthusiast who illegally dug up the body of a Battle of
Britain Spitfire pilot has ensured that the airman will be given a
full military funeral 53 years after his death, a court was told.
        Mark Kirby was given an absolute discharge at Ashford, Kent
(England) after admitting to a breach of the 1986 Protection of
Military Remains Act, by tampering with the body of Sgt John Gilders
without a licence.
        Kirby was said to have acted with the support of the pilot's
family, who had tried for 53 years to locate him, despite being told by
the Ministry of Defence that he had baled out over the English Channel
and drowned.
        In fact, Sgt Gilders, who fought in the Battle of Britain with
22 Squadron and later with 41 Squadron, had crashed into a field near
Canterbury in February 1941, a week after he became engaged to be married.
        In April 1994, Kirby and a group of amateur archeologists traced
the exact spot where the pilot was still buried in the aircraft's
wreckage. Still wearing his RAF uniform, the pilot's remains were removed
with the consent of the landowner and Sgt Gilder's brother and sister.
        The action was condemned by the Royal Air Force as "illegal and
distasteful", and also was criticized by some war veterans. But the RAF
confirmed after the court hearing that Sgt Gilders would now qualify for
a burial with full military honours.
        The defence lawyer told the court, "Sgt Gilders was a man to feel
proud of, and Mr Kirby followed what he believed to be the right course
of action, not knowing he was breaking the law, so that his [Gilder's]
sacrifice was not in vain.
        Kirby said he would continue to help families discover where their
relatives lay. "I know of three or four airmen who are sill lying in the
ground not 20 minutes away from this courtroom, without a proper funeral.
I will try to help the families of these airmen, but in future I will work
alongside the MoD."

--

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 14:22:34 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Olympic Games

The best private collection of historical information about the
Olympic Games Society is held by:

        SPORTS LIBRARY
        FIRST INTERSTATE BANK ATHLETIC FOUNDATION
        2141 West Adams Blvd. (P.O. Box 60310)
        Los Angeles, CA 90060.

You might also wish to contact:

        UNITED STATES OLYMPIC COMMITTEE
        1750 BOULDER STREET,
        COLORADO SPRINGS, CO 80909
        tel: (303) 632-5551

Good hunting -- Sidney Allinson.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 17:34:15 -0500
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Former German Tall Ships.

B. L. Werner asks;

>This is coming from hazy recollection, but isn't the Tall Ship
><something> Conrad, or Conrad <Something> the same ship that serves a
>training function to the Norwegian Navy today (well, when I saw it in
>1968, anyway), and was the star of the '60s movie "Windjammer?"

>As I recall, it also had a German Navy past.

The Joseph Conrad has been at Mystic Seaport in Mystic CT for fifteen years
or more. IT was once called the "Georg Stag" or some such name before the
museum aquired it.

While it is in the water and used mostly for cadet housing, I can't remember
ever seeing or hearing of it sailing since they put it on display. It WAS
restored about five years ago tho...

As Mike from UCONN will tell you, it is one of three major vessels in the
Mystic Seaport collection, along with the L.A. Dunton, and the good old
Charles W. Morgan. Of course there are scores of other historical ships and
boats there but I'd better get lost before I turn into a commercial...

Cheers!                                                         Steve

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - [email-masked] |"Life may be a drag...
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |    But it sure beats the
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |       only known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 18:09:43 -0500
From:    Burt Knight <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Trivia, Decks

One thing I remember reading was that when the British Fleet sent their
carriers to the Pacific in 1945, they became PART of a US task force and a
Kamikaze attacked one of the carriers with a 500 kG bomb. They hosed off the
wreckage and there was a one inch deep dent in the flight deck where the plane
hit. No other damage. A US carrier could have been put out of action for
several weeks until repairs were done. The Brits just kept going... BWK

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Jan 1995 09:23:12 +1000
From:    Derek Monz <[email-masked]>
Subject: <No subject given>

unsubsribe Derek monz

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 18:47:41 -0500
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

Cassady Craft writes:

>John, I cannot think of anything like a coup right offhand, but there are
>several documented instances of Japanese servicemen continuing the fight
>after the announcement was made that there would be a cease-fire.  For
>instance, Sakai tells of shooting down a B-29 in a night mission after the
>announcement (why would a B-29 be flying--leaflets?) in _Samurai_.  I believe
>that Admiral Ukagi's suicide mission may have been after the announcement,
>_The Last Kamakazi_ should confirm this.  Also, Hoyt's _Japan at War_ mentions
>the sailing of submarines and suicide boats after the announcement.  I would
>not be surprised if Gordon Prange (et al) has dealt with either coup or these
>types of missions, although he may have only worked on Pearl Harbor and Midway
>in his research.  As for the sources above, I must add a disclaimer because
>of my growing uncertainty as to the veracity of my memory:  "I could be
>wrong!" (and I hope if I am that someone closer to their sources will correct
>me if I am).

I seem to recall back in the 60's of the emergance of a lone Japanese
soldier from some obscure pacific isle who didn't beleive the war was
over. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood that this was not the
first such incident. Perhaps some of the more qualified members can pick
up on this.
                                                        Steve

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - [email-masked] |"Life may be a drag...
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |    But it sure beats the
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |       only known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 18:58:47 EST
From:    Paul Gregor <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

The soldiers you asked about did hold out--There was one who lasted until
the 70's, one Hiroo Onada (although the first name may be spelled incorectly)
He thought all attempts to talk him in were tricks... Also the last air to
air kill of world war 2 was scored by a b-32 (thats correct) on a japanese
aircraft that came up to attack after the surrender-- according to a tour
guide at the NASM restoration facility in suitland Md. --by the way
onada's  book is called, aptly, No Surrender

                                            Tally Ho!

                                             Paul Gregor
                                             Kent State

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 18:27:49 -0600
From:    "Tim J. Watts" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Japanese Military Attempt at Coup

(Disclaimer: I don't have the book in front of me and it has been some time
since I read it, but I'm pretty sure I have the right author and title.)

In John Toland's book, THE RISING SUN, he devotes a considerable amount of
space to the activities of some members of the Army after Hiroshima and
their attempt to prevent the surrender.  They attempted to assassinate
most members of the government that they felt favored surrendering.  The
radio address by the Emperor was apparently an attempt to prevent the
deaths of most of the government (at least in part).  Toland also spends
a lot of time looking at assassinations by officers of the Army before
Pearl Harbor, against government leaders who did not favor their policies.

Tim J. Watts
Valparaiso University

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 19:35:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 11 JAN 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 11 JANUARY 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-26, Douglas Invader
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  F-13, Boeing Superfortress
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-61, Northrop Black Widow

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): In the Kurile Islands, 3 B-24s on an armed
reconnaissance to Suribachi on Paramushiru Island, bomb NW of Taro Lake; 5
B-25s hit Kotani Shima.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): In Burma, 5 B-25s damage a bridge at
Wan Mai-Lo; 12 fighter-bombers hit targets of opportunity NE of Wanling, 7
drop napalm on targets of opportunity NE of Muse, and 11 attack targets of
opportunity SE of Wanting, China and in the E end of the Wanting River
valley.

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force):  Mission 27: 47 B-29s out of Calcutta, India
are dispatched to bomb 2 large drydocks at Singapore, Malaysia; 25 hit the
primary targets; around 15 others bomb Penang Island, Malaysia, Mergui,
Burma, and various targets of opportunity; they claim 6-1-17 Japanese
aircraft; 2 B-29s are lost.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 12 P-47s support ground
forces in the Si-U and Namhkam sectors. 3 others strafe trucks between
Namhkam and Selan; troop concentrations, vehicles, artillery pieces, supply
areas, and general enemy movement are pounded by 80+ fighter-bombers; 12
B-25s bomb storage buildings in the Lashio area. 509 transport sorties are
flown to forward areas. The 6th Fighter Squadron (Commando), 1st Air
Commando Group, based at Asansol, India, sends a detachment to operate from
Cox's Bazar, India with P-47s.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 790: 2 B-17s and 4 of 6
B-24s drop leaflets in Belgium during the night.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): About 120 A-20s, A-26s, and B-26s
attack communications centers and rail bridges in Belgium and Germany;
fighters escort the bombers, hit an ammunition dump at Mayen, Germany, and
patrol areas around Malmedy, Belgium and NE of Trier, Germany.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Bad weather limits operations.
P-38s fly reconnaissance and reconnaissance escort missions.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy during the night of 10/11
Jan, A-20s attack targets of opportunity in the W Po Valley; clearing weather
during the day enables an increase of fighter and fighter-bomber attacks in
the Po Valley and in the US Fifth Army battle area in the N Apennines; many
ammunition and fuel dumps, rail lines, trains, and vehicles are pounded, and
an alcohol refinery at Piacenza is severely damaged.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 23 B-24s from Saipan Island pound airfields on
Iwo Jima Island; the bombing of Iwo Jima is continued during the night of
11/12 Jan, by 3 B-24s flying individual snooper strikes from the Mariana
Islands. The 6th Night Fighter Squadron, VII Fighter Command (attached to
318th Fighter Group), moves from Kipapa, Hawaii to East Field, Saipan
Island (a detachment has been operating from Saipan with P-47s and P-61s
since Jun 44; a detachment operates from Kipapa, Hawaii until May 45).

  HQ AAF (Twentieth Air Force): The 3d Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron
(Very Heavy), 311th Photographic Wing (attached to XXI Bomber Command),
moves from Saipan Island to Guam Island with F-13s (the squadron flies
photo, electronic and weather reconnaissance missions in the W Pacific).

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: Large numbers of
B-24s, B-25s, A-20s, and fighter-bombers concentrate on communications
targets throughout N Luzon Island and attack airfields, communications, and
town areas in S Luzon, the C Philippine Islands, and on Mindanao Island.
B-25s and P-38s attack Kendari Airfield on Celebes Island. HQ 308th
Bombardment Wing (Heavy) moves from Leyte Island to Luzon.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

12/0036Z JAN

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 19:40:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 12 JAN 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FRIDAY, 12 JANUARY 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): 6 B-25s again damage a bridge at Wan
Mai-Lo, Burma. 35 fighter-bombers pound targets of opportunity around
Wanting, China and Muse, Burma.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 16 fighter-bombers support
ground forces in the battle sectors at Si-U and at Lawa on the Irrawaddy
River; 70+ fighter-bombers hit troops, supplies, vehicles, and general enemy
movement at Namsa-lap, Longmao, Hsa-ihkao, Mangpu, Pangnim, and near Lashio,
Hsipaw, and Hsenwi. Transports fly 544 sorties, landing men and supplies at
forward bases and dropping supplies to troops in battle sectors.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): All combat operations are cancelled
because of weather.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): For the fourth consecutive day,
all bombing operations are cancelled by bad weather. P-38s fly photo and
weather reconnaissance and escort missions.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, weather severely
curtails operations, but fighters and fighter-bombers of the XXII Tactical
Air Command score successfully against communications targets in W and C Po
Valley, claiming 50+ rail cuts and destruction or damage of 100+ vehicles.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 28 Guam Island-based B-24s bomb airfields on
Iwo Jima Island; 3 B-24s, on armed reconnaissance from Saipan Island, bomb
Marcus Island. Iwo Jima is hit by snooper strikes during the night of 12/13
Jan, by 4 B-24s from the Mariana Islands.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s bomb the San
Jose del Monte area and bivouac areas on N Luzon; other B-24s hit Legaspi,
and Batangas Airfields on Luzon, and Matina Airfield on Mindanao Island while
B-25s bomb Fabrica warehouses on Negros Island.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

12/0040Z JAN

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 19:58:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

 >I have read somewhere that the Japanese military attempted to prevent
 >Japan's surrender, even though the Emporer had ordered it.  Can anyone
 >provide me with some details on this?
 >
 >Regards, John Ausland

John,

As I remember the story, Hirohito made a recording announcing the
surrender that was to played over the radio the next day.  As some
of his flunkies were taking the record from the Palace, some of the
Young Tirks who were against surrender tried to grab it and destroy
it.  They were not successful and the recording was played the
following day.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 20:04:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 50TH: SMITHSONIAN AND HIROSHIMA

 >Somewhere, Lost in all the shuffle is the fact that conventional incendiary
 >raiding was doing far more damage-- the bomb evidently brought the notion to
 >the high command in Japan that we could now cause this destruction on a
 >single plane basis, even though we only had a few nuclear bombs at the time...
 >people who witness one of the bombings (i forget which ) saw the b-29 and
 >because there were only it and another for observation, thought it was a
 >recon mission...
 >
 >
 >                                                  Paul Gregor

Paul,

There were actually three aircraft dispatched on this mission, all
from the 509th Composite Group, which consisted of the 320th Troop
Carrier Squadron with Douglas C-54s and the 393d Bombardment
Squadron (Very Heavy) with 15 B-29s arrived at North Field, Tinian,
Marianas Islands.  The Enola Gay, B-29-40-MO, USAAF s/n 44-86292
coded R in a circle and number 82, dropped the first A-bomb.  I do
not have specific data on the other two B-29s which served as
observation and photo aircraft.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 20:08:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

 >John, I cannot think of anything like a coup right offhand, but there are
 >several documented instances of Japanese servicemen continuing the fight
 >after the announcement was made that there would be a cease-fire.  For
 >instance, Sakai tells of shooting down a B-29 in a night mission after the
 >announcement (why would a B-29 be flying--leaflets?) in _Samurai_.  I believe
 >that Admiral Ukagi's suicide mission may have been after the announcement,
 >_The Last Kamakazi_ should confirm this.
 >
 >Cassady Craft
 >e-mail [email-masked]
 >or
 >[email-masked]

My sources indicate that the last B-29 mission flown with losses of
aircraft was on 8 Aug 45 when 3 B-29s were lost.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:23:25 -0500
From:    chris garcia <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: JAPANESE MILITARY ATTEMPT AT COUP?

On Wed, 11 Jan 1995, JOHN AUSLAND wrote:

> I have read somewhere that the Japanese military attempted to prevent
> Japan's surrender, even though the Emporer had ordered it.  Can anyone
> provide me with some details on this?
>
> Regards, John Ausland
>
It's been a while since I read it, but yes there was such an attempt, and
you may read about it in detail in the last several chapters of John Toland's
fine book "The Rising Sun".

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:40:46 -0500
From:    "Arthur D. Venzin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: 11th Armored Div.

Sorry all still don't know how to download but i did promise to send stuff on 11th as it occurred.  Here is the info for Jan 12, 1945 before major offensive.

12 January 1945

The 55th A.I.B. as a component unit of CCR, was assigned the mission of
supporting the attack of CCA in the vicinity of LONGCHAMPS, BELGIUM.  In
preparation for the mission, the Battalion moved from MAGEROTTE, BELGIUM,
northeast to positions in the vicinity of HEMROULLE, BELGIUM.

13 January 1945

The 55th A.I.B. remaining under control CCR, marched from HEMROULLE,BELGIUM,
to vicinity of LONGCHAMPS, BELGIUM, with the mission of supporting
attacking elementsof CCA and protecting the Division left flank.  Company
"A" 55th A.I.B. relieved a battalion of the 502nd Parachute Regt., of the
101st Airborne Div.  CCA attacked at 1000 hrs w/ the Battalion furnishing
supporting fires to the left flank elements of CCA.  When the attack of
CCA reached BOIS DE NOM DE FALIZE, the 55th under CCR control, attacked
north along the left flank, by-passing ROUTTE, BELGIUM and securing FAYS,
BELGIUM and FME DE MENIL, BELGIUM, in accomplishment of the assigned
mission.  Casualties for the period were 2 EM wounded.

There's a start.  Tomorrow I'll send the Battle of Longchamps ... Hope
you all like it ... sorry for such delay.

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 10 Jan 1995 to 11 Jan 1995
*************************************************