Subject: WWII-L Digest - 1 Feb 1995 to 2 Feb 1995

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 00:05:24 -0500

There are 52 messages totalling 1931 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. [INF] USAAF 31 JAN 45
  2. GEN: ATTEMPTED JAPANESE COUP (3)
  3. INF: USN Chronology 02-02-95
  4. Japanese POWs in China? (2)
  5. INF: 50 Years Ago - 03-FEB-1945
  6. Prisoner of War Camps in Nebraska
  7. Is the mailing list okay? (2)
  8. Enola Gay Exhibit (9)
  9. Peruvian Ecuadoran War (2)
 10. Congressional Medal of Honor (2)
 11. ENOLA GAY EXHIBIT
 12. question...
 13. Sicilian Invasion (2)
 14. MEDIA:Enola Gay (2)
 15. ONI Stories - Was Sicilian Invasion
 16. Farewell BBs
 17. Westerly History (2 of 5): Pasquale Grocchia
 18. Ecuador v/s Peru
 19. Law of Armed Conflict
 20. WEAP: Hawker Hurricane
 21. MEDIA:ENOLA GAY (2)
 22. Distance to Tokyo
 23. Malmedy Massacre
 24. Mike Yaklich/WWIIsongs (2)
 25. Shame Of The Smithsonian
 26. WEAP: Battleships
 27. Ascension Island
 28. World War 2 Music
 29. Invasion Casualties Japan (was Enola Gay)
 30. POW, MIA stamp
 31. book reviews (and obscure Romanian steamers)
 32. Media: Johnny Hopper article.
 33. [INF] USAAF 3 FEB 45
 34. Media RE: Enola Gay

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 1 Feb 1995 22:08:34 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [INF] USAAF 31 JAN 45

"What makes a squadron a 'commando' ?"

The only such unit I know of is American  -- USAF Air Commando. The unit
provides air support, transport, and supply to army combat operations.

Air Commando was founded in WW2.  The name "Air Commando" was chosen by
General Hap Arnold, USAAF, as a tribute to Admiral Lord Louis Mountbatten,
who commanded Combined Combined Operations which included the first
British Commando units.  At the time, Adm. Mountbatten was Supreme Allied
Commander, South East Asia.

(They were perhaps even better known through Milton Caniff's comic-strip,
TERRY AND THE PIRATES, based on the reali-life exploits of Col. Phil
Cochran.

The Air Commandos are now called "USAF Special Operations".

The Air Commando Association has over 1,000 members, and celebrated its
50th Anniversary in October, 1994.

More info is available from:

                                ACA
                                2 David Street
                                Fort Walton Beach
                                FL 32547, USA
                                Tel: (904) 864-1953.

Regards -- Sidney Allinson, Victoria, Canada.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 1 Feb 1995 08:45:40 +0100
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN: ATTEMPTED JAPANESE COUP

  FOR MIKE YAKLICH
  I have now read the second part of your account of the attempted
coup and found it fascinated reading.  What puzzles me is why I had
never heard of this incident until recently.
  I will bring this to the attention of my contacts at the
International Herald Tribune and CNN and hope others with media
contacts will do the same.  As the anniversary of the Japanese
surrender approaches, it is important that the public be aware of
these events so as to understand that, despite Hiroshima, it is not to
be excluded that the war would not have ended when it did.
  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 04:00:16 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 02-02-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
02/02 Sat.  Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             Coast defense vessel NO. 144, by submarine BERGALL
              (SS-321), off Malay Peninsula,
              04 d. 32'N., 104 d. 30'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 05:59:21 -0500
From:    Dan Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Japanese POWs in China?

In Neil Sheehan's *A Bright Shining Lie* there is a fascinating reference
to hundreds of Japanese soldiers (mostly noncoms I think) who supposedly
stayed behind in French Indochina rather than go home as prisoners of
war. According to Sheehan, they went to work for the Viet Minh and
trained them in small-arms tactics etc.

This raises the interesting possibility that some Japanese continued the
war by working with the Vietnamese against the Americans in the 1960s. As
some of you know, there was a story about Lt Col Tsuji Masanobu, who
disappeared in China in the early 60s, and who according to an English
writer became a staff officer for the North Vietnamese.

I should probably say that I checked the Sheehan account with a
Vietnamese historian at Harvard. She said it didn't sound right to her,
because the Vietnamese hated the Japanese so much that they would be
unlikely to accept the help of Japanese soldiers even against the French.

                 - Dan    <[email-masked]>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 07:21:07 EST
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 03-FEB-1945

On 03-FEB-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the U.S. 1st Army sector, elements of the 78th Division
swim the flooded Roer River at Dedenborn and capture the town. Jumping off
before dawn, the 9th Division overcomes house-to-house resistance in
Dreiborn and capture Herhahn and Einruhr. The 2nd Division continues toward
Schleiden, taking Berescheid, Ettelscheid and Bronsfeld. The 1st Division
continues to battle West Wall obstacles. The 82nd Airborne holds against
strong counterattacks. In the 3rd Army sector, the 4th Division clears
Halenfeld, Buchet and Bleialf. In the 7th Army sector, elements of the 36th
Division continue to clear Oberhoffen. In the French 1st Army sector, the
3rd and 7th Divisions continue toward Neuf-Brisach.

Eastern Front - In Latvia, the Germans cut off in the north hold against
powerfull attacks by the Russians in the direction of Liepaja. With the
assistance of the German navy, preparations are made for the evacuation of
the army. Fighting is taking place north of Heilsberg in East Prussia.
German destroyers give supporting fire to their land forces, while
trasnports take off more than 184,000 refugees. In Hungary, fighting
continues in Budapest, where the German forces reach the Danube again east
of Lake Velencei, east of Lake Balaton and southwest of Budapest.

Philippines - General MacArthur orders Manila Bay reopened, a task that
entails clearing Bataan, Corregidor and the south coast of the bay in the
Ternate area. In the XIV Corps area, the 1st Cavalry Division is given
permission to enter Manila after forward elements reach the city limits.
The 37th Division is still short of Manila because they have to move on
foot and cross numerous streams. In I Corps area, elements of of the 6th
Division push forward positions south and southwest of San Jose. The XI
Corps resumes its attacks against Zigzag Pass. In the 8th Army area,
elements of the 11th Airborne are dropped along Tagaytay Ridge. The drops
are widely scattered, but the paratroopers are unopposed.

The Homefront
-------------
War Deaths Estimated - Conservative estimates indicate that military death
losses in 1944 totaled more than 2,130,000. Axis losses ranged upward of
1,250,000 and United Nations losses exceeding 880,000.

American Wounded Flown Home - The U.S. Surgeon General's office in Paris
said today that 10% of wounded American soldiers are flown directly home
from Europe. One in every four wounded is flown to Britain. Those who can
recover within a month generally stay in France.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                           | [email-masked]
Cary, North Carolina                 | http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 06:25:19 -0600
From:    Kathy David <[email-masked]>
Subject: Prisoner of War Camps in Nebraska

I am resource teacher for Gifted/Talented.  My students are doing a
history day project on prisoners of war in Nebraska.  They have been to
Atlanta and visited there with a man who wrote a book about it.  If there
is anyone out there who has information or knows of a person who served
in the service corp as a guard and would be willing to correspond with
the students it would be most helpful to their research.  Thanks.

                                        ,,,
                                       (O O)
------------------------------------oOO-( )-OOo----------------------------
   Kathy David                                    402-557-2664
   Omaha Public Schools
   Gifted/Talented Department
   3215 Cuming St.
   Omaha, NE 68131
   [email-masked]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 07:29:36 -0500
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: Is the mailing list okay?

1 - Is the list backed up or something, messages have been very slow
coming in to me.

2 - Did my "50 YA" column for 02/02 appear, it never came back to me.

3 - Did the column I just post for 02/03 appear?

I have changed ISP's and my new provider is terrible. I can't trust that news
or mail is coming in or going out properly.

Thanks.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                           | [email-masked]
Cary, North Carolina                 | http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 07:50:41 -0500
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

I agree with you Pete, wholeheartedly. The man's political viewpoint hath
distorted his perception such that 'left' is right, and 'right' is wrong.
Whatever the topic.

Margaret:

The reason that Japan did not surrender after Hiroshima was not that they
were getting over ths shock of what happened. The Japanese high council
knew within hours just what had happened over hiroshima. They immediately
began 'spin control' attempts to keep the truth from their own subjects.

They wanted a 'glorious fight ffor the homeland', no matter how many of their
own people died. Remember the casualties from island hopping were about 3 to
1 against the Japanese, and the japanese people were told that the american
fleet had been decimated and the imperial japanese fleet was on the brink of
totally eliminating the US presence in the pacific. Apparently their perception
of the truth today is similarly skewed.

Even afte Nagasaki was bombed, many of the military elite wanted to continue
fighting. They capitulated only when directed to by the emporer himself. Even
then there were attempts to quash the surrender.

No, they weren't getting over any shock, nor were they trying desperatly to
surrender via diplomatic channels.

Source: Reader's Digest Illustrated History of World War II, and THIS LIST!

                                                                Steve
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - [email-masked] |"Life may be a drag...
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |    But it sure beats the
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |       only known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:27:20 EST
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

On Wed, 1 Feb 1995 11:58:58 EST Alan Wild said:
>Hi Ken,... my 1st impression is as Joe describes, cancel before change.
>           Change was debated and compromised, but never wholly acceptable
>           to both parties. If you ask me, donation $ keeps the issue hot.
>           It's political and the Only reason I write is to point that out.
>           What a waste of energy and truth... :-\

Hi back to you (-:

I guess I find it a little difficult when party #1 says to party #2, "Make
these changes, don't debate it, and if you don't make all of them exactly
the way I say, then you are obviously against change."  I'm sorry--that's
just pure arrogance.  I mean, if the Smithsonian was against change, it
would never have bothered to consult with anyone in the first place.  It
isn't required to, after all.

ken koester

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:31:48 EST
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Peruvian Ecuadoran War

On Wed, 1 Feb 1995 11:14:49 -0600 Greg Kelley said:
>Oh, wow, and here I thought no one else read about these obscure wars.

I'm still trying to figure out what the Chaco war was & why wargamers
seem so fond of talking about it (-:

ken koester

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 07:48:38 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Congressional Medal of Honor

Hello, David!

Would just add one comment to your fine post.

The Army convened a board in 1911 to review all previous awards of
this medal with the idea of determining which act warranted the award
and to re-establish or tighten the standards for its award in the
first place. Those found lacking had their names stricken from an
honor roll that was also set up at this time. The medals themselves
were not returned or asked to be, but the recognition from the
government was not there.

    Hope this helps, and thanks.

    Terry
> Not to denegrate General Butler's bravery and accomplishments, but when I
> was researching the Medal of Honor for the interviews I was doing, I read
> that the Medal of Honor was at one point a lot easier to get than it is
> now. I remember for sure that they said that it was relativly easy to get
> in the Civil War and I think they said that the restrictions weren't
> tightened until after WWI, but am not sure. Anyway, it's possible that
> during these conflicts, Mexico, Haiti and Boxer Reb., it may have been
> easier to be awarded the medal. Just my 2c worth.
> David Rising
>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:35:09 EST
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

On Wed, 1 Feb 1995 13:01:59 -0400 Mike Yaklich said:
>And who is this Bernstein dude(I almost want to read his stinking book just so
>I can see what he adduces as evidence for a figure of 60,000 casualties-- it
>would seem pretty obvious that Okinawa on a larger scale would be the most
>plausible scenario, and didn't we lose close to 50,000 men there?).  Has there
>been a line of scholarship on this question that I missed that provided some
>real hard evidence to support the revisionist line on casualties?

I'd say there are two questions:  scholarship on how the estimates were
produced in the first place & "theoretical" scholarship on "accurate"
estimates.  I'm sure there has been some; these are too obvious questions
for enterprising doctoral candidates to ignore (-:  The obvious starting
point for the whole question of the bomb or not the bomb would be the
strategic bombing survey made in the fall of '45 and '46.  This has been
reported to me as concluding that neither bomb nor invasion were/would have
been necessary (its reasons for this, however, do not give moralists much
comfort).  Another starting point would be the paper trail associated with
the estimates themselves.  All this paper is declassified, so far as I know,
available somewhere--maybe the LoC--and surely has been studied by now.
I'd like nothing better to tackle this, but I'm in the middle of selling/
buying houses & barely can keep up with the lists at work any how )-:

ken koester

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 09:13:54 EST
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

On Wed, 1 Feb 1995 14:39:41 -0600 Bill Smith said:
>Medical section records provide fairly unbiased, albeit conservative,
>predictions of casualties.  Also, consider the large numbers of medals
>(notably purple heart) that were stocked.  These provide some numeric
>value to the inescapable sense of high casualties expected in light of
>the preceding engagements.
>
>Like it or not, the weight of argument is against low figures.  Prove to
>me, in light of the Iwo, etcs., campaigns that the casualties would be so
>low?  You can construct an argument either way, but there is more
>tangible evidence to support higher numbers.

There is tangible evidence that someone thought there would be high
casualties.  There isn't tangible evidence that casualties would be high.
I understood the statement I reacted to as asserting the latter point and
not the former.

If one wants to argue for the latter POV, it would involve, as I see it,
considering a number of other interesting questions at the same time:
Would invasion have been necessary?  How were the estimates produced
(methodology)?  Would the Iwo/Okinawa campaigns have accurately
represented the case on the mainland?  How long would fighting have
continued?  What was the effect of the Soviet invasion of Manchuria &
what would it have done, sans a-bombing?  How badly was Japan affected
by the mining campaign of the spring/summer of 1945?  How dependent on
outside resources was it?  And so on--not, I think, a cut-and-dried
proposition.  ("So prove it.")

Arguing the former is, or should be, considerably easier, or at least
narrower.  The most direct approach is to consider the question--in
detail--of how the estimates were produced, but there are others, which
would involve that much-overused word, "context".

But asserting any of this as "fact" is senseless.

ken koester

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:32:26 -0600
From:    "Roddy R. Rupert" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ENOLA GAY EXHIBIT

On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, Ben Frank wrote:

       (some text deleted)
> I recall saying in a meeting where the third revision
> of the exhibit script was being discussed, "From my reading of the script, I
> wonder who won the war." It was that slanted.
       (more text deleted)

Can the original text and the subsequent revisions be posted on the list
so we can judge for ourselves how slanted it was? I don't doubt that it
was, I'd just like to have the facts.

---------------------------
Rod Rupert
Springfield, MO

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 1 Feb 1995 15:19:58 +0100
From:    Wojciech Borczyk <[email-masked]>
Subject: question...

Dear colleagues,

I am looking for any information about the "amphibious jeep" ( Ford model
GPA, also known as "seep" ). Where can I found a "maintenance manual" or any
other complete technical data of this vehicle ? I live in Poland, where
this car is a very rare vehicle. Because of that, the information I've
collected is insufficient for me.

 Greetings -

   Wojciech Borczyk

( [email-masked],
  [email-masked],
  [email-masked] )

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 10:06:03 PST
From:    Jim Brady <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

>Robert asks:
>
>"Basically:  What would you like to see in this kind of environment?"
>
>I think the best way to handle this type of display is to use a
>timeline on the wall, starting with how the War in the Pacific got
>started, the battles (both defeats and victories), important events,
>and of course how the war ended.  Photos of events help (the Arizona
>exploding, the Flag on Mt. Suribachi, etc).  For each entry on the
>timeline there should be a legend showing which units were involved,
>and the casualties they had.  The final scene should be the view of
>the surrender deck in Tokyo Harbour, with total casualty figures for
>both sides.

Are you suggesting to leave out the citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, photos of the bomb
damage, or is that covered under your etc. ? I don't think you can have a historically accurate
exhibit without it, no more than the story of WWII can be told without mentioning the massive
civilian casualties in Europe (bombs and death camps). Again, the citizens weren't bystanders
and they weren't collateral numbers around the fray: they *were* the target.

Again, I'm not saying this has to come in place of the military context and the considerations of
losses. I just think it's impossibly naiive to think you can open the bombay doors and then drop
the curtain on the show. Certainly, the dropping of the bomb opens up a new chapter in history,
but I do think on this list especially we can appreciate that human endeavors don't divide into
neat, finite chunks; we do that artificially in the histories we write. The end of WWII and the
beginning of the atomic age overlapped. It was a welcome and necessary event for countries at
war, soldiers and their families, even the civilians whose suffering was to end. *And* it also was
a stunning and disturbing introduction to the horrors -- anticipated or unforseen -- of nuclear
warfare and politics.

 We must take responsibility for the consequences of our actions, even, and especially, if that
responsibility rightly is limited to acknowledging what we did.

-- Jim Brady

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 10:36:10 -0500
From:    "Mr. Scott Hannon" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Sicilian Invasion

I seem to recall some movie that featured Lucky Luciano working
for Allied intelligence (from prison). I think it may have been
the fictionalized Ian Fleming (the James Bond writer) bio movie
starring Sean Connery's son Jason. I think it involved Lucky
Luciano helping British intel capture a German sub off Cuba
or something like that.

Scott.
Scott Hannon, Thu Feb 2 1995 ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 11:51:46 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA:Enola Gay

The _Philadelphia Inquirer_ had an editorial yesterday, 1
February, on the Smithsonian Enola Gay controversy.  I found it
interesting.  Hope you do.  Quoted without permission, all typos
are mine.

             The nation has flunked a history test.  The Smithsonian
        Institution's long nervous breakdown over how to display
        the Enola Gay, the plane that dropped the atomic bomb on
        Hiroshima 50 years ago, was a test of whether this nation
        could seriously re-examine a watershed event, not just
        commemorate it.
             Apparently not.
             Bowing to unrelenting pressure from veteran's
        groups and some in Congress, the Smithsonian said Monday that
        its National Air and Space Museum would display only a hunk of
        bomber fuselage, a video about the crew and minimal text.
             There will be no examination of the complex moral
        calculus that led a decent man, Harry S Truman, to order the
        instantaneous incineration of 70,000 men, women and children.
        No review of historians' dispute over the arithmetic of an
        invasion, over whether that alternative would have cost about
        31,000 American lives, or 10 to 20 times more.  No contemplation
        of a half-century lived in the shadow of nuclear weapons.
             Nothing that might teach our children how the
        unspeakable horrors of world war can make the unthinkable seem
        not only possible, but wise.
             Nothing to make any of us think.
             Without any doubt, the museum's original exhibit
        script was unacceptable.  Its single-minded focus on the horror
        of the bomb and the terrors of the nuclear age excluded any fair
        account of what Americans had experienced at the hands of the
        Japanese.  Add its implication that the Japanese were mainly
        victims of racist imperialism, and it's no wonder many Americans
        were enraged.
             Those faults of balance were fixable, and were well
        on their way to being fixed in conversations between the
        curators and their critics.
             But some wouldn't be appeased until the imbalance
        tilted far the other way, until the bomb was depicted as simply
        another triumph of Yankee know-how and valor.
             So the Smithsonian, seeing the flap was headed for
        unsympathetic congressional hearings, has surrendered.
        Smithsonian Secretary I. Michael Heyman said that the exhibit's
        "basic error" was trying to "couple a historical treatment of
        the use of atomic weapons with the 50th anniversary of the end
        of the war."
             Imagine that, trying to get people to think about
        the meaning of atomic weapons by exploring their first and only
        use in warfare.
             That would require a dedication to sincere and open
        historical inquiry.  Positively un-American.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        [email-masked]
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 11:34:08 -0600
From:    Bob Rogers <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

Can we really talk sensibly about this without access to the
text of the exhibit?  I suspect the answer is "no", but I'll
comment anyway...

The "moral" decision, if any, was the decision to destroy
Japanese cities.  Use of the atomic bomb was logical in view of
this policy.  Despite the talk here and in the press about
projected invasion casualties, was that number even a factor in
Truman's decision?  Wasn't it a matter of, "we're burning their
country, here's a bit of hardware that will let us burn it
better"?

The a-bomb in 1945 wasn't carrying the symbolic weight it's
taken on in the last 5 decades.

Remember that we did not use gas on the Japanese.  That weapon
had a place in the world's mind of the 1940s roughly similar to
the place held by nuclear weapons today.  Had the US been as
evil as some are portraying it, gas would have been used on
Japan.

Personally, I get mighty tired of modern Japanese and the "we
are so evil" crowd here in the US whining about use of the bomb.
They (the Japanese) sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind.

--
Bob Rogers            Internet:  [email-masked]
Instrumental, Inc.    GEnie:     R.C.ROGERS
Minneapolis, MN USA   Phone:     612-920-6188

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 12:42:22 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Japanese POWs in China?

        There is an interesting little book published by the Japan Times called
"Peace Is Our Duty," recollections of a number of Japanese military and
civilian participants of the horrors of WW2, in which several Japanese
"colonists" from Manchuria and Korea talk about their POW experiences in Soviet
hands.  BTW (in reference to my earlier post about how the Japanese appear much
more eager to spread awareness of US "atrocities" than of their own widespread
military behavioral problems), all six of the footsoldiers from the China
theatre interviewed in the book (from three different divisions) had one thing
in common.  All received, as part of their combat indoctrination, the "training
exercize" of bayoneting a live, bound "prisoner"-- this allegedly done so that
all the recruits would have already have experienced killing someone before
they got into combat, thus less likey to have moral qualms about taking a life
the first time they were under fire.

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 10:50:27 -0700
From:    Jim O'Neil <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ONI Stories - Was Sicilian Invasion

Skip,
As the son of another ONI Officer, I find the story intriguing and very
believable... I wish I knew all the storys my Dad took with him in Dec, but
he felt duty bound to keep most of them secret. I do know that he had the
unenviable task of telling "Chesty" Puller that a group of his Marines were
"Gay", including an Officer or two [everyone was terrified of Puller and
what they knew his response would be - Puller was very protective of his
men]. Dad went in and presented his reason for being there - Puller
suggested he was in the wrong place because "Marines don't do that", and
told Dad to leave in somewhat more blunt terms... Dad had to drop explicit
pictures on the desk and tell Col Puller [Dad was a Cdr at that point- one
grade below Puller for the non-military] that the Investigation and
Hearings would take place, either with Pullers assistance or over his
objections... Puller Blew-up and Dad was ordered out. Later my Dad got a
written apology and the promise of cooperation... he always admired
"Chesty" Puller for being big enough to admit "that even Marines can foul
up on occasion".

Jim O'Neil  From the interrigation of a German General at the end of WW II:

               "The reason the American Army does so well in War, is that War
                is Chaos, and the American Army practices it on a daily basis"

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 11:52:00 CST
From:    Alex Bielakowski <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Farewell BBs

On 28 Jan 95, Jonathan Perkins wrote:

>         An interesting aside for any folklore/ghost story buffs out there:
> Seems there is an old tale that the admiral's wife was holding a tea party
> while her husband was at sea.  She was somewhat befuddled when people came
> up to her and asked when the admiral had returned home.  She replied that
> he hadn't--he was still away on his maneuvers.  People were adament, however,
> that they had just seen him stalk through the house and enter his study.
> Upon searching, the admiral was nowhere to be found--not surprising, as he
> had already drowned, trapped aboard his ship.  The eerie part is that the
> time of the accident coincided almost exactly with his "phantom" appearance
> at the tea party......  Take it as you will--maritime history is full of
> strange, unexplained folktales such as this, however.

Jonathan,
     If you like a good maritime ghost story, I'm sure you're familiar
with the U.S.S. Yorktown's ghosts.  Just in case, I'm tell the story.
The U.S.S. Yorktown (CV-5) was bombed at Midway by aircraft from the
Japanese carrier _Hiryu_ and two days later she was torpedoed and sunk
by the Japanese submarine _I-168_.  When she sank, there were three men
trapped below her decks bravely playing acey-duecey because they had
realized that they could not be rescued.  When the new U.S.S. Yorktown
(CV-10) was commissioned in 1943, many sailors reported mysteriously
hearing the sounds of a card game coming from the equivalent room on
the new carrier.  Just thought you might find this interesting (-:

Alex Bielakowski

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 12:59:09 -0500
From:    Cheryl Abdullah <[email-masked]>
Subject: Westerly History (2 of 5): Pasquale Grocchia

Friends, here is another Westerly narrative.  I'll try
to be more accurate: This is the *draft* of a "local
history summary" based on a 74-page transcribed
interview.  The transcript will be preserved, but the
following is what readers of the finished compilation
will more likely see.  This particular subject was so
fascinating I got a little immoral and reduced the
hardcopy point size to 9 from 10 so I could claim it
falls within the 1.5-page limit I've been given.
(Don't tell my aunt--it's not like I'm getting
graded.)

I did check a map and the only WWII reference I own
(Reader's Digest Illus. History of WWII) this time,
but I still think there are errors (see my queries).
I've done a 3d-person summation (my stuff), but
anything within double quotation marks are 1st-person
remarks (Pasquale's) I hated to leave out.

Again, all comments are so much appreciated.
Gratefully yours, Cheryl
-----------------

Narrator:  PASQUALE P. GROCCIA, World War II

Brief Biographical Background:
DOB:  April 14, 1922
POB:  Westerly, RI (Oak Street)
Post-military experience:  Cook (retired 1983)

Branch of Service:  Volunteer OSS and Ranger, Allied
Forces Unit
Special Awards (American):   Arrowhead patch; Bronze
Star; Good Conduct Medal; European and African ribbon;
Middle Eastern Service Medal
Special Awards (Italian):  Italian War Cross; Cross of
Merit

1

HIGHLIGHTS/ANECDOTES OF THE MILITARY EXPERIENCE:
Pasquale did not graduate from high school because
1938 was financially tough.  From age 16-18, he worked
for Greyhound Post houses.  He then worked on the NY-
New Haven-Hartford railroad at 45 cents an hour to
help support his parents.  When war broke out, he
badly wanted to go and "just made it" past the 5-foot
minimum height requirement.  He left Westerly for Ft.
Devens, MA, then Camp Breckenridge, KY, after being
given a "kitchen breakfast" send-off with other
Westerly boys by the local Elks club.  Basic training
at Camp Breckenridge included 5- to 25-mile hikes with
part of a mortar on his shoulder.  Pasquale was in
good condition, however, and he had moral support from
Westerly friends in the same camp--Paplas Posato,
George Sivetto (Pasquale's cousin), and Frankie
[Westerly qry.--a.k.a. "Slim"?] Algiere.  One time his
parents visited Kentucky bringing soup and Italian
food that Pasquale shared with the other Westerly
boys.  His parents, like many Westerly Italians, came
from Calabria in southern Italy.

2

     He initially trained to calibrate and shoot 81mm
mortars [see temp. endnote Groccia-1] , which required
some knowledge of mathematics.  Pasquale eventually
volunteered for jump training because there was an
opportunity for soldiers who could speak Italian to go
to Italy, which he wanted to do.  The men who
interviewed him for this special training were with an
OG (Operational Group).  They later became known as
the OSS  (Office of Strategic Services) under General
Donovan [see endnote Groccia-2], "the most decorated
soldier of WWI."

3

     Pasquale's OSS group had 120 men.  The OSS itself
was quite big--there were battalions, French and
Yugoslavian OGs, and OSS as far away as the South
Pacific.  During the war the OSS did not get much
publicity, but afterwards Hollywood made a movie
called _Philippine through Madelayne_, a cloak-and-
dagger story starring Alan Ladd.  Pasquale's first
stop as an OSS recruit was to the congressional
Country Club in Washington, DC.  "We started to take
training...and we had our first casualty there....[We]

4

had these stilettos that [just the weight of] could
penetrate your hand."  A man named Pope, upon turning
around, was accidentally pierced by such a stiletto.
Confidential training took place on presidential-
retreat grounds (perhaps Camp David) in Maryland.
They then had demolition training at Ft. Belboar
[ed.?], VA, where Pasquale got some shrapnel in his
head, the only wound he would get during the war.
After arriving overseas in 1943 on a large convoy,
Pasquale's OSS unit was not attached to any particular
division or army--"Anybody who wanted us, we had to
go....We did work for the British,...the 4th
Corp,...the French...."  His unit was prepared to do
work at a moment's notice.

5

     His first stop overseas was Oran, Algiers.  From
there he went via destroyer to Jacksville [ed: ?] on
the African side of Corsica for his first mission.  He
and 29 other OSS men met with French Moroccans who
wore the hoods and capes of the French-African foreign
legion.  Together they worked to get the Germans out
of northern Corsica.  The Germans had 8,000 battalions
in Corsica.  Many of the Italians gave themselves up
and joined the Allies.  Pasquale's group made their
way through Corsica toward Bastia, the biggest German
port [ed: on Corsica? in the Mediterranean?].  There
were usually several casualties whenever the men went
behind German lines to blow up tanks, bridges,
ammunition dumps, etc. because the Germans were well
entrenched among mountains.  The Germans, who never
intended to stay in Corsica, finally left one night.
Pasquale could see their warships, submarines, and E-
boats in the port.  "One morning and nobody was there.
They were all gone."  Pasquale noted that the E-boats
were made of steel while American PT boats were made
of plywood.  His unit took enough supplies for a 30-
day stay on Corsica, but actually stayed for 45 days
as it was difficult to oust the Germans.

6

     By the time other military groups landed on
Corsica, Pasquale left on a PT boat with five other
OSS men to the hilly island of Caprior [prob. Capraia]
to do observation work.  If they saw a German ship,
they radioed Bastia so an American ship could go forth
to encounter the Germans.  There were a few French
natives on Capraia who once "covered for" the OSS when
a German E-boat came to the island.  "We radio for
[Bastia] because an E-boat was in the port and they
came and caught them in the port and torpedoed them
and that took care of that boat."  After two weeks
enduring C-rations, which Pasquale compared to
"stones," he left Capraia for Corsica and then for
Siena, Italy along with 129 other OSS men via a Navy
landing craft.

7

     At this time, the summer of 1944, the front lines
were in Bologna and the Allies were stopped.  The 4th
Corp, 5th Army called for help from the OSS because
they wanted to know what the Germans had in a small
town just below Bologna.  On or around November 26,
1944, Pasquale went with seven others to "no-man's
land."  He was lagging behind when the others in the
group, including a Lieutenant Schneider, got trapped
by a German patrol. "I went around and I fired at
them, which I killed seven, and there was just two
left that we took prisoners."  There was no radio
communication.  The only way his group could tell the
4th Corp what they learned was to walk back with only
their water and ammunition.  Later,  in Mayo, Italy,
Pasquale received the Bronze Star for his action.  He
attributes the fortune of his having lagged behind to
God.  "It has got to be God....I saved all of them."

8

     Soon afterwards  he and two partisans undertook a
mission to blow up a bridge with demolition G-2 [prob.
C-2], a plastic explosive.  "In Italy, all your
bridges have one stone and it is the last stone put in
there, in the middle of the bridge and you pull it
out, it is not cemented in.  We put our demolition in
and the time fuse in there and the cap and we left."
Pasquale credits the anti-Mussolini Italian partisans
for doing tremendous work.  "They would ambush German
soldiers, they would blow up ammo dumps, anything that
they could do to hurt the Germans, they would do."

9

     Hed in the execution
of the men was General Dostler.  The bodies of these
men, shot in the head, were later found because two
captured Germans and many Italian people testified
against Dostler.

12

     After the war ended, Pasquale left northern Italy
for headquarters in Siena, where he stayed for a month
before going on to Naples.  "From Naples, I was on the
back of a truck and these sailors were walking and
this guy yelled of it.  I said, 'No thanks, I've jumped enough in
my life.'"  He returned to Italy in 1947 to marry a
girl he met and got engaged to while in Siena.  He
married her on 10/25/47 and brought her back to
Westerly on 12/23/47.  Five years later he "called
for" her mother and father as she was an only child.
He worked as a cook at Joe's Diner in Groton and,
later, the Colonial Restaurant, formerly known as the
State Line Lunch, nelescopic
sight, which allowed the gunner to sight on nearby
ranging sticks to be sure of the range and direction
in which he was firing.

15

     "The mortar projectile is a tear-drop shaped bomb
with fins on the narrower end to give it some
stability in flight.  The tail of the mortar bomb also
contains a propellant cartridge, sometimes with
boosting charges added to the bomb's tail fins if
extra range was needed.  The mo
simple parabolic trajectory to its target, which could
be as close as a few hundred yards or as far away as
3200 yards depending upon the mortar's elevation and
the propellant charge used.  Mortars weren't designed h wartime head of
the SIS]
hoping to gain some influence over its operations in
Europe.  But OSS soon outgrew any foreign help.  Its
teams swarmed over Europe and North Africa.  By the
end of the war Allen Dulles, its chief in Switzerland,
was running a powerful network which had relations
with anti-Hitler Germans and with serving officers
hoping to make the best possible deal when the
inevitable defeat arrived.  OSS was close

Cheryl                                    [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 10:11:06 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ecuador v/s Peru

Text deleted:

>Hey, Mike, if you're reading this, the Peruvian Air Force had an
>Italian Military Mission until about 1938----- any info??

>Gotta go.  More later, sometime, hopefully....

                                          >Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          >Greg Kelley
                                          >St. Paul Public Library
                                          >[email-masked]

According to Jane's, the Italians had Air missions in both
countries prior to the outbreak of war in Europe.  At that time
they were recalled, to be replaced in both countries, by American
missions.

    Steve L. New
    [email-masked]
    Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 17:06:07 CET
From:    "COL Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Law of Armed Conflict

There were a few postings last week about attacks on downed pilots so I
thought I'd dig out some information on the Law of Armed Conflict that might
be of interest to the List.  While it may seem like war and "playing by the
rules" are mutually exclusive, there are specific rules regarding what one
can and can't do (by the rules) during wartime.  Of course, everything is
subject to interpretation. . .

On the subject of downed pilots -

Persons who, to save themselves, parachute from an aircraft in distress
should not be attacked while descending.  Once reaching the ground an
aircrew member should be given the opportunity to surrender before being
fired upon.  If the aircrew member engages in a hostile act (like shooting
a weapon), he's fair game.

It is also interesting to note that airborne troops are considered combatants,
and are, therefore, not protected by this rule.

                            Doug Donnell

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 13:27:04 EST
From:    Mike Long <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Hawker Hurricane

In reference to the construction of the Hurricane;
The following is taken from "Fighter - The True Story of the Battle of
Briton" by Len Deighton pgs.90-91.
" ..in the summer of 1936, the Hawker Hurricane was born.
So the Hurricane was a monoplane version of the Hawker Fury. It used the
same patent construction: a wire braced framework of metal tubes. Round
this was built a wooden frame, of formers and stringers. Fabric was
stretched over the outside. At first not even the wings were of stressed
-metal construction, but metal ones were designed before full-scale
production was started.
The Hurricane was not a monocoque construction. It was an old fashioned
wood-and-fabric machine, stiffened by a metal-tube framework. It was a
halfway house between the old biplanes and the new Spitfires and yet
there were certain advantages to this construction. The exploding cannon
shells, which did terrible damage to metal skin, had less effect upon
any sort of girder work.
And the RAF had very few men who understood the complexities of stressed
-metal construction, but it's airframe fitters and flight mechanics had
spent their lives servicing, and rigging, aircraft like this. When
fighting started, many seriously damaged Hurricanes were repaired in
squadron workshops."
As usual, typos are mine etc...
Mike

Michael Long
Programmer Analyst II
University of Connecticut
196 Auditorium Road, U-138    |   Bitnet: [email-masked]
Storrs, Connecticut, USA      | Internet: [email-masked]
                   06269-3138 |    Phone: (203) 486-1352

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 10:39:54 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA:ENOLA GAY

"Who the hell cares what the Japanese think about it...?  -- Ben FRank.

Spoken with soldierly directness.

This very day, a group of British veterans of the SEcond World War are
Tokio, attending a large class-action suite against the Japanese
government for reparations to Allied prisoners-of-war brutalized while
in Japanese captivity.
The ex-PWs started Japanese court procedings last Monday, suing Japan for
$700 million in compensation for wartime brutality.
The group speaks on behalf of 25,000 Allied PWs, seeking L14,000 (sterling)
each in damages. Tokio says the compensation issue was already dealt with
under a 1951 treaty, when victims each received L76 (sterling) $150 US.

If there is such exquisite "sensitivity" around these days, maybe some
of it could be saved for *our* people who were victims.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 11:02:11 PST
From:    Alan Hepburn <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

Jim Brady asks:

"Are you suggesting to leave out the citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki,
photos of the bomb damage, or is that covered under your etc. ? I don't
think you can have a historically accurate exhibit without it, no more
than the story of WWII can be told without mentioning the massive
civilian casualties in Europe (bombs and death camps)."

It may not have come across real clear, but my intent was to have a display
showing a photographic account of actions by both sides.  If we are to
show how cruel we were to the civilian population of an area, we must temper
it with photographic evidence of cruely by the other side as well.  By
only showing how cruel one side was is exactly what the problem is.  I
think we can all agree that war is hell, and it's hell on both sides.  But
to try and portray the USA as the evil aggressor on WWII and the Japanese
as the innocent victims of American imperialism is simply not right.

---

Alan Hepburn             |                                                 |
National Semiconductor   |           DON'T   TREAD   ON   ME               |
Santa Clara, Ca          |                                                 |
[email-masked]     |                                                 |

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 13:07:08 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Distance to Tokyo

Hello, Ben!

Thank you very much for you answer. I had an idea it was in that
vicinity but not quite sure. I am scheduled to give make a formal
presentation on the Iwo Jima struggle on 26 Feb, and just needed to
have my idea about distances confirmed or changed. In time, I may
have a more difficult question for you.

I really appreciate your taking the time to answer my query, albeit
not very thought provoking. :-)

All the best to you, Ben.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 13:14:25 -0600
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

> Can we really talk sensibly about this without access to the
> text of the exhibit?  I suspect the answer is "no", but I'll
> comment anyway...
>
> The "moral" decision, if any, was the decision to destroy
> Japanese cities.  Use of the atomic bomb was logical in view of
> this policy.  Despite the talk here and in the press about
> projected invasion casualties, was that number even a factor in
> Truman's decision?  Wasn't it a matter of, "we're burning their
> country, here's a bit of hardware that will let us burn it
> better"?

What a lot of people tend to forget is how a war is really waged.  It
is rarely like Baghdad, where, at least according to media accounts, you
can hit specific targets -- hit the bridge, but make sure you miss the
guy riding the bicycle.

War, especially during WWII, was a effort of wholesale destruction.  You
didn't have the long range ability to fly deep inside enemy territory,
destroy the infastructure and hope the edges wither away and the core finally
capitulate.  In fact, there was no way to destroy the infastructure.  You
didn't have the technology to do much more than destroy the centers of
operation.

War 50 years ago was destruction on a massive scale.  Even the relatively
"protected" places were subjected to huge damage.  And, as is human nature,
people congregate and build cities around major economic centers.  In other
words, the more substantial the capability of a place for making war goods,
the more likely it was surrounded by civilians and therefore became a city.

A center of operation.  A major target.   Look at today's targets that were
identified all over the old Soviet Union and their primary, secondary and
tertiary targets in Europe and the U.S.  The primary targets tend to be
operational centers which -- not ironically -- also tended to be population
centers.

Cities were being systematically destroyed, fire bombed and wrecked all over
Europe, North Africa, England and in the Pacific.

But the goal of a war, besides winning, is to force the enemy to quit while
at the same time keeping your own losses to a minimum.

In this kind of war, it really doesn't matter what the effect is on the
enemy.  It's a cruel and inhuman statement to make, but if you had a choice
between saving 60,000 (using the lower number) of your troops or increasing
your casualties in order to protect the enemy, what's likely to get support?
When every step of the way was literally fought man to man and to almost the
very last man, who would ever have believed that the desire to protect the
home islands -- and families -- would be less than the effort and determination
on Saipan, Guam, Okinawa ... Places that _aren't_ considered as "home"?

War is far less a question of morality and "proper" technique than it is of
getting it over with for the least cost and burden OF ONE SIDE.  The simple
goals of the Allied Forces in the Pacific (anywhere, really) is to minimize
Allied casualties while maximizing the damage on the enemy and forcing that
enemy to quit the war.

In 1945, the atomic bomb was seen as a device that did NOT cause more
destruction than conventional weapons (it didn't), but was a device that
made continuing that war much easier.  One aircraft vs. 1,000.  If the
war had to be fought to the same extremes as all that led up to the home
islands, then the tools were there which helped protect your own lives.

In reality, during war, that's your primary concern.  Not what some people
will think about the destruction and loss of lives inflicted on the enemy
some 50 years later.  You do what you have to do and get out intact.  It
ain't no numbers game.  It's life and death.  Yours, primarily.

> The a-bomb in 1945 wasn't carrying the symbolic weight it's
> taken on in the last 5 decades.

Today, the use of nuclear weapons has a much bigger risk than it did 50 years
ago.  The destructive capability of even the smallest weapons is far greater
than that used then, plus its use would almost guarantee a massive retaliation
in kind.

It must be remembered that many weapons have been seen with the same type
of morality question.  There are references to the banning of aircraft to
wage war.  Before that, the machine gun was seen as a brutal and inhuman
weapon.  Before that, any kind of firearm was in that category.  I once saw,
and wish I knew where, attempts in Europe to agree to the banning of the
longbow because of its inhuman and devastating effects on troops.

There are a lot of lessons from Hiroshima and Nagasaki -- And, because those
events happened, a lot of questions were answered in advance.  I have no
doubts that the future use of these weapons was probably severely curtailed
because the capabilities were proven in a real world example.  (No, I don't
condone wiping out a city to try something new in the future... :-)

> Remember that we did not use gas on the Japanese.  That weapon
> had a place in the world's mind of the 1940s roughly similar to
> the place held by nuclear weapons today.  Had the US been as
> evil as some are portraying it, gas would have been used on
> Japan.
>
> Personally, I get mighty tired of modern Japanese and the "we
> are so evil" crowd here in the US whining about use of the bomb.
> They (the Japanese) sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind.

--
\\ Robert J. Granvin                                 User Services Specialist
// School of Statistics - University of Minnesota            [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 14:29:00 CST
From:    Alex Bielakowski <[email-masked]>
Subject: Malmedy Massacre

     I have just started reading Trevor Dupuy's _Hitler's Last Gamble:
The Battle of the Bulge_ and I have come across something that I never
heard of before.  According to Dupuy, the facts of the Malmedy Massacre
and the subsequent trial are both less than clear as to whether or not
the Nazis actually murdered the men in cold blood or whether many were
killed in battle or while trying to escape.  Dupuy goes on to say that
the men who were sentenced may have been railroaded.  I have never known
Dupuy to be a revisionist, but there's always a first time.  Does any-
body know anything more about the Massacre or the trial which can
shed some light on whether or not Dupuy was in fact correct?

Alex Bielakowski

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 15:32:03 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Mike Yaklich/WWIIsongs

        Sorry if I've offended anyone's sensibilities with the use of the
appellation "Commie."

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 15:50:12 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Sicilian Invasion

        There was a movie about Luciano, the title I think was "Lucky," (it
might have been a made-for-TV job) in which his collaboration with the Allies
in Sicily is featured.  I don't recall if all the details of that great story
just posted on the list are recounted, but seem to remember the substance of it
WAS in the movie.

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 13:19:00 -0600
From:    George Bauer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Shame Of The Smithsonian

In my opinion, Ben Frank is right on!  Who gives a damn about what the Japanese think?  Let them think in public about the rape of Nanjing and Bataan and a few other things for awhile.

It is obvious that they had an agenda in getting involved with the debate.  They identified it.

The speech I heard recently made it sound like the Smithsonian was just telling the truth, but people didn't want to hear it.  What the people didn't want to hear is the revisionists re-writing history to further their agenda.  I believe that their actions dishonor General Tibbits and everyone else who participated in the war.

Personally, I think there should be a wholesale housecleaning!

[email-masked]

 * RoboBOARD/FX 1.04

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 15:54:45 -0500
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: ATTEMPTED JAPANESE COUP

John Ausland writes:

>  I will bring this to the attention of my contacts at the
>International Herald Tribune and CNN and hope others with media
>contacts will do the same.  As the anniversary of the Japanese
>surrender approaches, it is important that the public be aware of
>these events so as to understand that, despite Hiroshima, it is not to
>be excluded that the war would not have ended when it did.
>  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

Please do, John. Perhaps there would be a little less US bashing and
Japanese worship in the media when it is discovered that Truman was
very probably RIGHT in his decision to drop both bombs, and even then
how narrowly the peace process managed to survive.

The truth about WW-II/Pacific is not japan bashing no more than the
truth about WW-II/Europe is germany bashing. True perception even
today must see the bombs as necessary if many of us are to have fathers
and grandfathers. And that the japanese culture has survived...

Cheers!                                                         Steve

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - [email-masked] |"Life may be a drag...
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |    But it sure beats the
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |       only known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 16:00:57 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Battleships

R. Vining

the project was mounting Polaris Missiles ON an Iowa, I can get you
the plan numberas if you would like.  Meant in the phrase that Polaris
missiles are mounted ON a polaris sub.  A broadside refers to a battleship
firing all of its guns to one side at the same time, and is used as in
'the broadside of the ship is x tons' this terminology dates form the
time when a ship mounted all of its guns pointing to one side or the
other and delivering a 'broadside' (all of them) at a target, it refers
to SHOOTING the ordinance and not to RECEIVING it.  Please ask if you
are not sure what something means next time.

John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 15:20:56 -0600
From:    Cheryl Kaye Bryant <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Is the mailing list okay?

On Thu, 2 Feb 1995, John Davis wrote:

> 2 - Did my "50 YA" column for 02/02 appear, it never came back to me.

John

I received this column.

C.K.

*******************************************************************
"The Riskier the road, the greater the profit."    / C.K. Bryant
        The 62nd Rule of Acquisition               / W.I.U. English
*******************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 16:20:58 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Enola Gay Exhibit

Sorry Jim, I meant: KEN are your brains scrambled....

John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 15:22:23 -0600
From:    Bruno Wroblewski <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ascension Island

        During the late 1950's I spent some months on Ascension Island
building and installing a radar. During WWII Ascension was used as a
way station on the Brazil to Africa route for ferrying aircraft. During
my stay there, I came across some interesting stories about the use of
the island during wartime. I'm hoping that someone on this list had
first hand experience there and can either verify, amend or discount
these tales.

1) Attacks on water supply.
        Since Ascension is a volcanic island, before the Americans in-
stalled a salt water distillation unit, its water supply consisted of a
paved area in the bowl of an extinct volcano which caught the rains from
passing low level clouds which covered its summit. This water was piped
down to sea level tanks near the beach.
        I was told that during WWII these tanks were sometimes shelled
by passing German submarines. True? If so, how often, when and how
effective were the shellings?

2) Building the airstrip
        I was told that before the Americans arrived, the British had
tried for years to build an airstrip on the island. Since the terrain
consists of porous volcanic rock, their use of construction explosives
was not very effective because the explosive forces were absorbed by
the rock without much breakage. The Americans on the other hand used
a brute force method which, while doing the job, consisted of a humong-
ous volume of explosives and resulted a really dramatic "Big Bang" !
True? Or is this just another Urban (Islandic?) legend?

3) Aircraft lost in crashes
        At the end of the airstrip I was shown some debris which was
alleged to be the remains of crashed aircraft. Apparently, the planes
being ferried to Africa and the ETO, took off rather heavily loaded
with fuel and cargo, and occasionally one of them did not clear the
low hill at the end of the runway. True? If so, any record of how
many crashed, when and what were the casualties?

4) This is not a story but a question
        At the time I was on Ascension, most of our supplies came in
on C124 cargo planes because no landing facilities were available for
ships. The small British population received their mail and packages
from the Britain to Cape Town ship anchored offshore. Communication
between them and the ship was via small boat.
        My question is how did the Americans supply the island with
the obviously large amount of fuel and supplies needed for such a
large operation?

5) Other questions
        How many and what type of aircraft passed through Ascension
during the course of the war? When did the operation begin? When did
it end? Were any aircraft modifications required for this operation?

        Thank you for any knowledge or experiences you may wish to share.

                Bruno

**

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 16:25:24 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: ATTEMPTED JAPANESE COUP

        I wanted to add a few quick comments to my posts on this topic.  The
first is that Major Hatanaka became the leading figure in the conspiracy not
due to rank or position, but because of his energy and obvious conviction and
sincerity-- a kind of moral ascendancy over his peers, although thats a tough
term to use given the inherent immorality of some of his subsequent actions.
Also I wanted to mention that two of the reasons the coup attempt itself was so
haphazard and disjointed were that 1.) the conspirators tried to the bitter end
to enlist the support of senior officers, and were basically improvising when
they had to go it alone in the end, and 2.) Hatanaka had to make the
arrangements in the last 48 hours before the coup was launched by travelling
from place to place and person to person on a bicycle, so thoroughly had
bombing and blockade depleted the resources of the home island and interrupted
communications.
        Thank you, John, for your kind comments.

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 16:35:02 -0500
From:    Burt Knight <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: World War 2 Music

I would put 'Lili Marlene' on the top of the list. Very popular with both Axis
and Allied Soldiers in Europe.  The Lale Andersen recording is available (in
German) and I know of at least 20 different recordings in English.  Trivial
note: The English Words (most popular version) were written by the same writer
who wrote 'I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus'.  Who was he??

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 16:35:10 -0500
From:    Burt Knight <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Peruvian Ecuadoran War

Peru's Italian Mission- Est May 1937.  Built a Caproni Company factory which
produced only 12 Ca 100 light trainers (At exhorbitant cost). Military mission
terminated 'at the outbreak of the European war' and the factory sat idle until
nationalised in 6/1/41. Factory was said to be the largest in South America.
The Peruvian government bought 'a number' of Italian aircraft (Janes is Vague
on number) which 'gave considerable trouble and the factory was mainly engaged
on the repair and reconstruction of these aircraft.'

Peruvian miltary aircraft (1945)
Fighters: Curtiss Falcon, Curtiss Hawk, Chance-Vought Corsair, North American
NA-50 (whatever the NA 50 was.  The P51 was the NA73, the B25 was the NA63 and
the Texan NA number isn't mentioned in Janes)
Bombers: Fairey Gordon, Douglas 8A-3P (another What is it!!)

Ecuador Military Aircraft (1945)
Fighters: Republic (Seversky) P-35

Both Countries used Ju52-3ms for transports

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 17:41:51 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Mike Yaklich/WWIIsongs

        Sorry, my last reply to this posting was cut short by inadvertently
hitting the "send" command before I was finished.  My apologies if the use of
the term "Commie" offended anyone on the list.  My intention was entirely
humorous.  I've never been a big fan of the term "politically correct" as its
come to be construed today, mainly because "PC" has become a derogatory term in
the political usage its received in the last couple of years.  Personally, the
term to me means simply that one does not refer to a person or a group of
people by insulting or derogatory terms and nick-names, and I wonder about
those people who boast about being "anti-PC" or "politically incorrect."
Perhaps I'm confusing how I interpret the term with many of the outlandish
attitudes that get slapped with the perjorative "politically correct" tag by
right-wing radio talk show hosts and others.  To me, true political correctness
means you don't call homosexual people "fags" or "dykes," or refer to our
citizens of African descent by any of the myriad of other terms white America
has invented for them, or Samuel Elliot Morison doesn't go around referring to
the Regia Marina as the "dago navy," etc.  All of the above are not really
examples of "political correctness" at all, just common human decency.  I hope
typing in a few of the truly offensive terms in my example won't get others on
the list even more upset at me.  If it does, my apologies, that was not my
intent, and those who've read my past posts realize (I hope) that I do not
generally (in fact, ever) stray into ethnic, sexual-preference, or any other
kind of derogatory name-calling, so a repetition need not be feared.  Perhaps
my own familiarity with (and wild youth flirtation with) the American left has
led me to believe I could use the term "Commie" with a sort of endearment, the
way members of some ethnic groups can casually use epithets with each other
that would certainly lead to a fight if pronounced by someone of a different
ethnicity.  Anyway, sorry about that....
        BTW, its funny how the term "politically correct" has sort of come full
circle.  Didn't it originate in the Communist International during Stalin's
day?  And didn't it further have the connotation of adhering to the Party line?
Nowadays it seems to be used as an example of and synonym to "liberal
hand-wringing" and other such terms fashionable on the right.  Hey, now that
you mention it, what would you call an organized political movement that
believes chiefly in freedom for business to do business, with the minimum
governmental restraints to the pursuit of profits, one that basically believes
that if free from governmental interference (and perhaps with just a little
government support) the economic life of the nation will sort itself out just
fine, to the betterment of all (or at least all who own and operate
businesses)?  Well, in 1850 or so, you'd call that party and that political
philosophy "liberal."  Ain't language a funny thing....

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

PS: will it help everyone not to get mad at me if I type about forty or so of
these silly :-) icons all over the place (sorry, that's one piece of, dare I
say it, "politically correct" internet etiquette I just have a built-in
resistance to using...:-)
PPS: I wasn't aware that the song "Strange Fruit" (about KKK lynchings) from
the same Robert Wyatt album was a Billy Holiday number.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 17:51:05 -0500
From:    Dan Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA:ENOLA GAY

Ben, the tough part of being the nice guys of the world (that's how we
viewed ourselves in the 1940s, 1950s, and partway into the 1960s:) is
that we *do* have to consider what the other folks think, even if what
they think is that we are a bunch of bastards.

But keep 'em flying, anyhow!

                 - Dan    <[email-masked]>

On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, Ben Frank wrote:
> I feel that I must really respond to the Japanese attitudes reported in this
> story. First of all, who the hell cares what the Japanese think about the Enola
> Gay matter. Secondly, when Japanee leaders begin apologizing for the sneak
> attack on Pearl Harbor, the way they treated American POWs, and all the rest we
> have called them to account for, maybe then, and only then should we concern
> ourselves with what they think. I must say that even when fighting the Japanese
> in the Pacific in World War II, I was not as exercised about them as I am
> currently. I don't know if any of my fellow WWII vets of the Pacific War feel
> that way. Ben Frank
>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 17:47:31 -0500
From:    John Cropp <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA:Enola Gay

On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, James E Irwin wrote:

>    TOKYO  -- In the latest trans-Pacific clash over how to
> commemorate the end of World War II, Japanese reacted angrily
> Tuesday to the cancellation of a U.S. exhibit on the atomic bombings
> of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
>    Many conservatives and Japan's small but vocal rightist fringe
> insist that World War II was a Japanese attempt to free Asia of
> Western colonial powers, and that Japan need not apologize.
>
Evidently both sides suffer from revisionist historians and the
politically correct.  Sigh!  Keep fighting the good fight-seeking truth.

                           All my best,
                           John

John L. Cropp                      *   "Quomodo manibus mortalis
[email-masked]      *    talia magna opera
11041 Fancher Rd.                  *    coquinaria?"
Westerville, OH 43082              *

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 18:00:02 -0500
From:    Dan Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Invasion Casualties Japan (was Enola Gay)

For what it's worth, I have been reading the Spaatz and Lemay papers at
the Library of Congress, and as late as August 1945 they were still
working up plans to speed production and improve performance of the B-29,
move 750 B-29s onto Okinawa under Jimmy Doolittle's 8th Air Force, get
some squadrons of RAF Lancasters onto Okinawa also, adapt the B-29 to
carry 22,000 lb British Tall Boy bombs, and replace the 20th Air Force
air crews on a schedule going out to March 1946.

                 - Dan    <[email-masked]>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 18:03:08 -0500
From:    David Rising <[email-masked]>
Subject: POW, MIA stamp

Sorry about the cross-post for the Milhst people but I thought both
groups would be interested
to know that the post office (U.S.) has announced that it will be issuing
a stamp honoring the veterans who were PoW's and those who are still MIA.
It will be a 32c stamp and will be issued May 29, Memorial Day.
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 18:57:07 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: book reviews (and obscure Romanian steamers)

        To start off, let me say to Greg Kelley, didn't want to get your hopes
up with that subject line.  Actually, I looked in the one source I had access
to that you didn't mention (the "Victory Edition" of "Warships of the World,"
published 1946, editor Kafka-- often filled with info of borderline accuracy
but I've found ships in there that are not mentioned in some contemporary
Jane's), but found nothing on either the DACIA or the REGELE CAROL I, despite
six or eight pages on Romania.  Only two minelayers listed, they were both
apparently purpose-built and constructed 1939-40 so I figured you probably knew
all about them already, given the depth of your knowledge on the subject.  So,
sorry...To be honest, I don't have the in-depth knowledge of many of the
technical details of WW2 weapons systems and military hardware possessed by
many on this list-- that's why I find the list so valuable, I can pick everyone
else's brains all the time (heh, heh).   There are always people out there who
know the nuts and bolts, guns and ammo stuff better than I do, especially war
gamers etc.  Otherwise, why would I have to ask dumb questions like "where is
the Savoia-Marchetti factory?"  I guess my own strong suit, if I have one, is
the operational/strategic/tactical/political angles of the areas I'm interested
in, and a sort of comprehensive knowledge of the conflict (i.e., I know a
little about a lot of different things).  I realize I use this list as a
resource a lot, because the technical armaments stuff does interest me greatly,
and compared with the average layman (as opposed to the average listmember) I
guess my "knowledge" of WW2 weaponry etc would seem impressive.  However, this
list has a way of making one humble.  That's why whenever there is an area I
can help out on, I try to post whatever I can-- paying back to the common
resource pool.  That's why its a real "mea culpa" for me not to be able to be
much help to someone like Greg who has already provided me with a wealth of
material, but to be honest, if its about Romania and Greg can't find it, I'm
pretty sure little ol' me ain't gonna come up with it either....

        Having publically paraded my guilt at my lamentable shortcomings, I
would like to thank two listmembers (owners) for reading suggestions which led
me to some first-rate books.  Namely, Larry Watts' "Romanian Cassandra" (thanks
Greg) and James Sadkovich's "The Italian Navy In World War Two" (thanks Joe).
For anyone interested at all in these two admittedly somewhat obscure topics
("Romanian Cassandra" is a biography of Marshal Ion Antonescu, the military
dictator of Romania throughout most of the war), I'd hardily recommend these
works.  Both are "revisionist" history in its best sense-- attacking a
commonly-held view which is not however substantiated by a full exposition of
the facts.  Both use a lot of hard evidence to convincingly state their case,
in most cases evidence not fully explored by previous historical works on the
subject (and this is where true historical revisionism parts company from the
politically-driven variety-- not entering with an ax to grind and building the
case from there, but looking at documentary evidence on the subject which has
been under-explored to challenge long-held assumptions.  The best of the
revisionist Soviet historians I posted about earlier did the same thing.)  The
revisionist claims in question are, in Watts' case, just about every
commonly-held assumption about Antonescu, who emerges looking like one of the
best men to grace the cesspool of Romanian politics in the first half of the
century-- part of the problem with Antonescu being that his life, though of
obvious importance to the 20th-Century history of his country, has been so
little explored, mainly due to the anathema posthumously associated with his
regime.  I haven't finished Sadkovich yet, but his "revisionism" consists of
challenging such claims as "the Italian Navy was gunshy" or "clung to its
ports" or that the British established a "moral ascendancy" over their Italian
counterparts as early as the battle of Punta da Stilo (July 1940), or even
that, among the many admitted failings of Italian naval equipment and policy,
the failure to build aircraft carriers was of the paramount importance
sometimes attributed.  I could go on at greater length about both books, but
will let anyone interested read them for themselves.  Thanks again to Greg
Kelley and Joe Barone for making me aware of the existence of these works!!

PS: It was particularly gratifying to read the introduction of Sadkovich's book
and see that reading Bragadin and Faldella were the beginning of "seeing the
light."  While I am nowhere near the calibre of scholar Mr Sadkovich is, I felt
pretty good because I too had read Bragadin and Faldella (struggling through
the latter in Italian--phew!!) in coming to the same conclusion that the
Italian role in the war has been grossly misrepresented (or at least
misinterpreted) by most non-Italian authors.  Seeing other people I've read
also repeatedly cited by Sadkovich, like Ernesto Bagnasco, Giuseppe Santoro,
and one or two more I can't recall offhand, was also a good feeling because it
leads me to believe I'm on the right track in my own reading program.  In fact,
I'm thinking of posting to the list the introduction to a lengthy piece about
the Italian armored divisions I myself wrote a couple years ago (but did not
feel was appropriate for publication in its existing form), the general tone is
so close to that in Sadkovich's intro (except of course for Sadkovich's
superior scholarship).  Anyway, I realize I've been posting a lot lately, I'm
planning to shut up now and go have a three-day weekend, so you'll all have a
little break from my screeds.  Thanks again, and sorry I couldn't help, Greg.

Regards

Mike Yaklich

        "Oh Lord, do not let the Romanian suffer as much as he can bear"
                (Romanian peasant proverb)

PPS  Hey, Joe, I know I took a pass on those photos you have, but you didn't
say anything about the giant mortar.  Maybe once you download it to the
day-by-day archives I'll have to dig it up by FTP-- that thing sounds like its
worth a look.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 20:38:45 EST
From:    Frozen In Western Michigan!! <[email-masked]>
Subject: Media: Johnny Hopper article.

I know this is a bit late, and someone may have already spotted it:

I found a very interesting article in the September, 1993, issue of
_Smithsonian Magazine_ about one Johnny Hopper, a British subject
living in France at the time of the German takeover.  He became an
unintentional, but seemingly very effective, saboteur and general
pain in the German's side.

It was a thought-provoking, well-written article.

Bruce.

B. L. Werner
Big Rapids, Michigan
Where nothing is big or rapid.
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 20:48:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 3 FEB 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SATURDAY, 3 FEBRUARY 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang
  Spitfire, Vickers Supermarine

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 12 B-25s attack troops and
supplies at Loilem; 27 fighter-bombers support ground forces in the Molo,
Hosi, and Myitson areas; 80+ fighter-bombers hit troop concentrations,
supplies, town areas, tanks, and other targets at Kyaung-hen, Mongkyet,
Hsipaw, Hsenwi, Na-sang, Konghsa, and Hkaihsi. Transports complete 531
sorties, landing men and supplies at advanced bases and dropping supplies to
forward troops.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
  Mission 817: 1,437 bombers and 948 fighters are dispatched in a major
strike on Berlin by B-17s while B-24s hit the synthetic oil industry at
Magdeburg; they claim 38-1-18 Luftwaffe aircraft; 25 bombers and 8 fighters
are lost:
  1. 1,003 B-17s are sent to hit the Tempelhof marshalling yard in Berlin
(937); targets of opportunity are Bad Zwischenahn (1), Bromsche (1), Gatow
(13), Luneburg (2), Sogel (1) and other (1); 23 B-17s are lost, 6 damaged
beyond repair and 339 damaged; 18 airmen are KIA, 11 WIA and 189 MIA. Escort
is provided by 575 of 613 P-51s; they claim 12-1-0 aircraft in the air and
17-0-11 on the ground; 7 P-51s are lost (pilots MIA) and 2 damaged beyond
repair.
  2. 434 B-24s are dispatched to hit the Rothensee oil plant at Magdeburg
(116); 246 hit a target of last resort, the marshalling yard at Magdeburg;
targets of opportunity are Wesermunde (17), Mockern (12), Cuxhaven (9),
Yechta Airfield (2) and other (3); 2 B-24s are lost, 1 damaged beyond repair
and 58 damaged; 19 airmen are MIA. Escorting are 210 of 232 P-51s without
loss.
  3. 41 of 44 P-47s fly a sweep over Friedersdorf Airfield; they claim 9-0-6
aircraft in the air; 1 P-47 is lost (pilot MIA).
  4. 35 P-51s fly a scouting mission.
  5. 24 P-51s escort 9 F-5s and 7 Spitfires on a photo reconnaissance mission
over Germany.
  Mission 818: 1 B-17 and 10 B-24s drop leaflets in the Netherlands and W
Germany during the night.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In Germany, the 9th Bombardment
Division attacks the Berg-Gladbach storage and repair depot, Dahlem
communications center, rail bridges at Ahrweiler and Sinzig, and marshalling
yard at Junkerath; fighters escort the 9th Bombardment Division, fly patrols,
and carry out armed reconnaissance over W Germany. In France, the 394th
Fighter Squadron, 367th Fighter Group, moves from Juvincourt to St Dizier
with P-38s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Weather again cancels bombing
operations. P-38s fly photo and weather reconnaissance. P-51s escort the
photo reconnaissance aircraft while other P-38s escort Mediterranean Allied
Tactical Air Force (MATAF) B-25s on a transport run to Yugoslavia.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, weather restricts combat
operations to an attack by 4 P-47s on the Sonico marshalling yard.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 9 Saipan Island-based B-24s hit Chichi Jima
Island, Bonin Islands; 10 others hit Iwo Jima Island while 9, flying single
bomber harassment strikes, pound Iwo Jima during the night of 3/4 Feb; 15
P-38s, part of a force escorting photo aircraft, strafe the island in a
2-wave attack.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: On Luzon Island,
B-24s again pound Corregidor Island and the Canacao peninsula; other B-24s
hit Aparri and Tuguegarao an in the Batangas area, A-20s continue ground
support missions. B-24s bomb Cebu City on Cebu Island, Philippine Islands,
and surrounding targets. On Mindanao Island, B-25s and P-38s hit Matina,
Daliao, and Padada Airfields.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

03/0146Z FEB

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 21:33:08 EST
From:    Charles Mattocks <[email-masked]>
Subject: Media RE: Enola Gay

I must admit that second post dealing with the Japanese response tended to make
me very angry.  But, I sat back and cooled my heels before responding...I think
I'll probably second Ben Frank's comments on both subjects.

Semper Fi!!
Chip
[email-masked]

expecto credite

Oderint dum metuant

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 1995 22:46:22 EST
From:    Charles Mattocks <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Congressional Medal of Honor

Hi, David!

You are right it was easier to get the CMoH during the Civil War and following
years.  A good couple of examples is: All 864 men of the 27th Maine Regiment,
received the Medal of Honor for remaining briefly on garrison duty in
Washington, D.C., after their one year enlistment expired. A second, the 29-man
honor guard that accompanied Lincoln's coffin home for burial likewise received
the medal.

In 1916 an Army review board began cleansing the rolls of Medals awarded on
dubious grounds during and after the Civil War.  The board revoked 911 awards,
including those received by the 27th Maine and the Lincoln honor guard.  That
action tightened the standards for the award of the Medal of Honor.

In 128 years of its history, 3,416 men and one woman are listed as having earned
the nation's highest decoration for valor.  Mary Walker was the only woman to
receive the Medal.  It was revked in 1916, when standards were overhauled to
requir "combat with the enemy".  She refused to give it up, died in 1919 at the
age of 86.  Nearly six decades later, the Army restored Mary Walker's medal at
the request of a descendant.

Hope this helps!
Chip

suaviter in modo, fortiter in re

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 1 Feb 1995 to 2 Feb 1995
***********************************************