Subject: WWII-L Digest - 7 Mar 1995 to 8 Mar 1995

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 00:00:59 -0500

There are 28 messages totalling 1367 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. THOUGHTS: Germany and guilt (2)
  2. VJ DAY
  3. INF: USN Chronology 03-08-95
  4. VJ Day (4)
  5. NOST: UK Sites
  6. P-40s
  7. Postmortem on Japan posts
  8. Is Japan Sorry?
  9. Tactical afterthoughts on Japan part 5
 10. Re2: THOUGHTS: Germany and guilt
 11. Request
 12. NOST:  UK Sites (2)
 13. WWII German, US & Soviet Veterans (2)
 14. Your Recent Post (was: Intro to List)
 15. endlossung/Germans or Nazis?
 16. VICTORY AT SEA
 17. INF: 50 Years Ago - 09-MAR-1945
 18. INFO. German Professor Abbreviations
 19. more on "Glacier Girl" P-38F
 20. [INF] USAAF 9 MAR 45
 21. Tokyo Raid
 22. NEW MEMBER

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 7 Mar 1995 20:37:39 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: THOUGHTS: Germany and guilt

        < ".... Doenitz got a raw deal..." >

!!!

o o
 "
 U

        The Last Nazi, German Fuhrer GrossAdmiral Karl Doenitz, spent the
last decades of his long life assiduously erasing his Nazi past and building
the myth he was just an honest sailor who somehow was thrust into being
Adolph Hitler's chosen successor.
        Rather than make my own comments, I offer this quotation from a
recent book written by a German:
                THE ODYSSEY OF A U-BOAT COMMANDER:RECOLLECTIONS OF ERICH TOPP
                        Praeger, New York, 1992.

        "... Grand Admiral Doenitz's apologists hold that he was an unpolitical
officer, but I am not convinced, and here my criticism sets in.
        His [Doenitz] unconditional commitment to Hitler, his decrees and
speeches that reflect National Socialist ideology and utterances of its chief pokesman spokesman -- all this induces me to reject this innocence assesment ...
        So much we know today from the talks he gave; so much we can deduce
from his presence where Himmler openly discussed his strategy of liquidation against Poles, Russians, and Jews, I conclude that Doenitz knew more than he
admitted".
                                        -- U-Boat Captain Erich Topp.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 7 Mar 1995 19:50:18 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <[email-masked]>
Subject: VJ DAY

Mr. President.  No matter what you say or do, historically it was Victory
over Japan (VJ) day.  You can not change history.  The celebration of
this historic event is praising the deeds of the day, not calling for a
renewed conflict.  But when you slap the faces of the veterans that
sacrificed so much in the past by trying to change or ignore their
history, you hurt us all.

I am the sun of a WWII veteran, a Pearl Harbor survivor.  My generation,
which is your generation derives its heritage from our fathers.  Do not
dishonor them and try to change this heritage.  I am proud of where I
have come from and what I have gained from the sacrifices of my father's
generation.  They taught me to stand up and be counted.  What are you doing?

****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       [email-masked]
Cultural Resource Manager
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS       (808) 422-2771  extension 130
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 04:00:12 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 03-08-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
03/08 Thu. Inter-American Conference, in session at Mexico City
           since 21 February 1945, ends.
            Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             Transport No. 143, by Army aircraft, Formosa area,
              23 d. 35'N., 121 d. 35'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 10:32:29 +0100
From:    Robert Martensson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: VJ Day

>There is a sad irony that just before the 50th Anniversary of
>V-E/V-J Day, the US dollar is plunging to an all-time low as
>a result of financial machinations by Germany and Japan.
>
Could people please stick to the subject WW2 and not drag current economical
and political affairs into the fray. There is sure enough postings in this
list as it is (my work is suffering :-)).

In all friendliness
        Robert Maartensson
        [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 12:31:38 CET
From:    "COL Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: NOST: UK Sites

Chris -

Ref your question regarding WWII related sites in and near London. . .

Four came to mind.  First, the Imperial War Museum.  Allow plenty of time.
It's huge.  To call it interesting would be a vast understatement.  Second,
the RAF Museum in Hendon (outskirts of London).  Third, Churchill's bunker
(in downtown London).  Was opened to the public about 3 years back.
Fourth, RAF Duxford, also part of the Imperial War Museum (but located in
Duxford) -- lots of restored airplanes and interesting exhibits.  It's
located on the site of a WWII airfield.  If you're lucky (and I was when
I visited), there will be some flying activity involving WWII vintage
aircraft.

One of the RAF NCOs in my unit is going to see if he can dig up any more
info that might be of help to you.  Let me know if you have any further
questions. Enjoy your trip!

                                Doug

Doug Donnell
Ruppertsweiler, Germany
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 07:11:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: P-40s

 >> the skies.  The Kittyhawk, for those who don't know, was essentially a
 >> souped-up P-40 with a Spitfire (Rolls-Royce) engine installed, boosting
 >> the speed by 15-20 mph over current P-40 versions.  This was also the
 >> plane flown by Australia's top ace Clive Caldwell for most of his
 >> career in North Africa (he later switched to a Spitfire).

Mike,

I prepared this post months ago when the question came up of what were
the names of P-40s.  Hope this helps.

Jack McKillop

Someone asked last week if the popular name of the Curtiss P-40 was
Kittyhawk, Tomahawk and/or Warhawk?  In checking my sources, I found the
following statement on page 474 of CURTISS AIRCRAFT 1907-1947 by Peter M.
Bowers:

  "Britain operated its direct-purchase and Lend-Lease P-40 variants under
the names of Tomahawk and Kittyhawk.  It did not use the name Warhawk
applied by Curtiss to variants powered with the Merlin engine."

Additional research of this book and others revealed the following facts:

1. Only two models of the P-40 were equipped with the V-1650-1 engine, i.e.,
the Packard-built Rolls Royce Merlin 28 liquid-cooled inline engine.  These
P-40 Warhawks were:

   XP-40F-CU (Model 87-B3): One P-40D re-engined with the V-1650-1 engine
   YP-40F-CU: One P-40F used for engine cooling tests
   P-40F-CU: 1,311 production aircraft of the XP-40F-CU in blocks 1 through
     20
   P-40L-CU (Model 87-B3): Lightweight version of the P-40F; 700 built with
     many being converted to P-40Rs.

The P-40F was easily recognizable because it eliminated the carburetor air
intake on the upper nose.

2. The remaining P-40s had the Allison V-1710 liquid-cooled inline engine
also used on the P-38, P-39 and early Mustangs (the A-36A, P-51 and P-51A).
These no-name aircraft were:

   XP-40-CU (Model 75P): One P-36A re-engined with the V-1710-19 engine.
   P-40-CU (Model 81): 199 production XP-40s
   P-40A: One modified P-40
   P-40B (Model H81-B): 131 improved P-40s
   P-40C (Model H81-B): 193 improved P-40Bs
   P-40D (Model H87-A2): 23 improved P-40s with many changes
   P-40E (Model 87-B2): 820 improved P-40Ds
   TP-40E: Two P-40Es with two-seat cockpit
   XP-40G (Model 81-AG): One P-40 with Tomahawk IIA wings
   P-40G: 43 P-40s refitted with Tomahawk IIA wings (16 to USSR)
   P-40H: Designation not used
   P-40J: Project cancelled May 42
   XP-40K: One modified P-40K
   P-40K: 1300 improved P-40Es
   TP-40K: One P-40K to two-seat trainer
   P-40M: 600 improved P-40K-20-CUs
   P-40N (Models 87V and 87W): 5,210 improved P-40Ms
   TP-40N: 30 P-40Ns converted to two-seat trainers
   P-40P: Project cancelled; built as P-40Ns
   XP-40Q (Model 87X): Three modified P-40Ks
   P-40R: 300 P-40Fs and Ls re-engined with Allison V-1710 engine

Note that Curtiss applied two model numbers to the P-40s, Model 81 to the
P-40 through P-40C and Model 87 to the P-40D through P-40R.  I checked three
references in preparing this and found contradictory information about the
Curtiss model numbers however, since the Bowers book deals exclusively with
Curtiss aircraft, I ASSUMED that his book was correct.

3. The Brits identified their Model 81s as Tomahawks and their Model 87s as
Kittyhawks.  The other Commonwealth air forces, i.e., Australian, Canadian,
New Zealand and South African Air Forces, used the Brit designation.  The
Soviet Union, Turkey, Egypt and the Free French also received Brit aircraft
but I do not know what they called them.  The Brit designations were:

   Tomahawk Mk I (Model H81-A): 140 acft equivalent to P-40; 3 to RCAF.
   Tomahawk Mk II: Improved Tomahawks delivered in Oct and Nov 40
   Tomahawk Mk IIA (Model H81-A2): 110 acft equivalent to P-40B; 23 to USSR
     and 1 to RCAF
   Tomahawk Mk IIB (Model H81-A2 and -A3): 930 in four lots; generally
     equivalent to P-40C.  Used by RAF and SAAF in North Africa.  100 H81-A3s
     to China for use by AVG; 23 to USSR; and some to Turkey and Egypt.
   Kittyhawk Mk I (Model A87-A2): 560 equivalent to P-40D.  72 to RCAF and
     17 to Turkey.
   Kittyhawk Mk IA (Model H87-A3 and -A4): 1500 equivalent to P-40E.  Many
     to RAAF, RCAF and RNZAF.
   Kittyhawk Mk II (Model H87-B3): Brit records show 330 P-40Fs and P-40Ls
     as Mk IIs; later records list first 230 as Mk IIs.  81 to USAAF; 7 to
     Free French; one to RNZAF.
   Kittyhawk Mk III: Of 616 Mk IIIs, first 192 were P-40Ks, the next 160
     were P-40Ls and final 264 were P-40Ms.  Last 170 to USSR; 210 to RAAF;
     15 to RCAF; 58 to RNZAF.
   Kittyhawk Mk IV (Models H87V and H87W): 586 P-40Ns with 130 going to
     USSR.  Many to RAAF, RCAF and RNZAF.

Accordingly, unless I can confirm the model, I will no longer designate the
P-40 as a Warhawk.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 09:19:18 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Postmortem on Japan posts

        What started out a month ago as transcribing a short bit of Toland's
"Rising Sun" in response to a question to the list from John Ausland somehow
took on a life of its own, and became a sweeping if somewhat disjointed
panorama of the war in the Pacific.  Looking back on all I've regurgitated to
the list on this subject, I wanted to thank anyone who hung in there with me
and read all or part of my many (largely unsolicited) posts on this topic.  For
those who felt I was just cluttering up the e-mail ether with this drivel, my
apologies, but rest assured that it will probably be some time before I recover
enough to launch into so monstrous a project again.  I will try to be better at
chopping things into more digestible fragments if I feel tempted to spew out
something similar in the future.
        Four things I wish I had said, or didn't say:

        1. In proof-reading some paper copies of previous posts after the
fact, it strikes me that in my discussion of "gekokujo" I didn't make it clear
enough that the system by which the Army came to have the power to bring down
governments was a direct result of changes instituted immediately after the
2/26 Incident of 1936.  That is, the service regulations were changed to state
that the Army (War) and Navy Ministers had to be active officers of the service
in question.  This was a direct response to the violent dissent within the
military.  I mentioned the new system and how it worked, but perhaps didn't
make the connection specifically enough.
        2. I also wish I had mentioned, in regards to potential invasion of
Japan, that the option of blockade was already in place, whether formally
declared or no.  Looking through some things I saved from other peoples' posts
to the list, I was struck by the discussion on the B-29 air mining campaign of
the Japanese home waters that ran here a couple months back.  I see that in the
spring and summer of 1945 alone over 200 Japanese ships were sunk by mines
dropped by B-29's-- not to mention mines deployed by submarines, etc, or the
toll subs were taking in torpedo attacks, or the destruction of shipping by air
raids on harbors, etc.  Add to this a bad harvest in 1945 in Japan, and the
more I think about it, the more I believe that, considerations of motivation
aside, ending the war in August 1945 probably spared the Japanese people an
even greater and more prolonged martyrdom.
        3. I mentioned the name of Field Marshal Hisaichi Terauchi a few times
without saying much about this officer, and that strikes me as an omission.
Terauchi, after the initial successes of the southern offensive which was
primarily under his control, was associated with more ill than good in the
Japanese war effort.  He criticized both Homma in the Phillipines and Imamura
in Indonesia for being too easy on the local populations.  He was in charge of
building the Japanese Burma railroad and road, where roughly a third of the
50,000 prisoners of war used essentially as slave labor died.  And he was the
man who constantly pressured Yamashita to defend Leyte, and send reinforcements
there, when Yamashita was trying to husband his resources for the fight on
Luzon.  Terauchi suffered a severe stroke at the end of the war, just before the
signing of the Japanese surrender.
        4.  I wanted to say something on the topic of factual error.  This
comes up because in the last week I've caught myself, or been caught by others
on the list, in three of these, and frankly, I find that a little embarrassing.
In fact, a lot embarrassing.  The one I particularly wish I could have back was
my passing reference to Admiral Willis "Ching" Lee as being of Chinese-American
descent.  I have no idea why that pseudo-fact stuck in my mind, and since I
don't have time to go look it up (none of my handy sources make reference to
it) I'll take Jim O'Neil's word for it he wasn't.  At any rate, since much of
this has been downloaded to the terminal in more or less stream of
consciousness fashion, I've done a lot of my own back-checking of facts and
figures that I've thrown out.  Most of the time the things that I wasn't 100%
sure about turned out to have been right after further checking.  A few times
they weren't, and I've posted corrections to the list.  The ones that really
bother me are the items like the "Ching" Lee reference and referring to the
Churchill-Roosevelt agreement on resources as 90-10% instead of 70-30-- i.e.,
ones where I've not only been wrong, but DIDN'T catch myself or question it.
Those are the ones that make me feel like I'm slipping.  Nonetheless, I often
use this list as a resource (and it was definitely one of my sources for
portions of these posts), so I don't mind having you all proofread me either.
Much as it bothers me to be wrong, I'd rather be told I'm wrong and learn
something than continue making the same mistake in the future.  Thanks again to
everyone who expressed positive comments or otherwise showed interest (and
thanks as well to those who kept me honest on the factual content).

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 10:21:02 EST
From:    Mike Oaks <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Is Japan Sorry?

On Tue, 7 Mar 1995 20:48:00 EST,
mc killop  <[email-masked]> wrote:

>The following article appeared on Page A9 of the Metro edition of the NEW
>YORK TIMES on Monday, March 6, 1995.  I have summarized this article and
>any typos are mine.
>
>MANY IN JAPAN OPPOSE APOLOGY TO ASIANS FOR WAR
>
>The Japanese Parliment is considering whether Japan should apologize for
>invading other Asian countries during WWII and murdering millions of
>people.  Many members of the Pariliment are saying that the apology is not
>realling needed and support for it is floundering.
>
SNIP SNIP SNIP
  Jack,
    It looks like they're trying to re-write history again!!!

/====================================================================\
|    Michael A. Oaks                                                 |
|    Systems Analyst                  Music: A means to mark times   |
|    [email-masked]              stepping stones through |
|    Kennesaw, Georgia 30144                 your calendar of life.  |
|    Tel: (404)423-6049  Fax (404)423-6541          ~ ~ ~ ~      MAO |
|    VWAR-L #146 - - (Sgt. USAF = / AFCS / AFSS / AFDC)              |
|    Break, Break...Kadena, Kadena, Clark, Clark, Request you echo...|
|    (Some things you never forget...even after 25 years...)         |
\====================================================================/

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 10:15:40 -0500
From:    James Ray Watkins <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: VJ Day

>Ray,
>
>When I read Ben Frank's post the first thing I did was mail in to the
>President, but I do see your point on this.  The memories of war are
>nasty, but they should be otherwise we would think that war was a good
>things (unintentionalized bastardization of quote), but the Japanese gov.
>is getting really weird ideas on what happened in WWII, the last time
>a nation this big a revision of history was in Germany circa 1930 when
>people actually believed that their army had not been defeated in 1920.
>When people start changing history, or revising it, the lessons that history
>taught are changed.

Wasn't one of the lessons of WWI that 'punishing' a country (Germany) led
only to more problems, not less? I say that because, while I think it is
interesting to speculate on what the Japanese 'think,' we are, after all,
Americans and I am even more interested in what 'we' have or have not
learned from history. Here, WWII. Reading in this list often makes me wonder
if the futility of agression is one of things that is being 'revised' out of
our historical memory. Seems all too often that those who want the war
remembered are not willing to do the work to actually come up with a way to
do this that doesn't just seem to want to 'punish' the Japanese. Into that
vacumm rush the PR people whose job it is to keep their bosses in office. PC
is, after all, just a washed out version of current academic thinking,
history become sound bites. I think this is exactly relevant to this list
because here there are people who could keep an eye on all the factual
details such a project would have to take into account.

  Many Japanese are actually beginning to think that
>they were 'freeing' the rest of East Asia (but don't ask the other
>East Asians that question), which is wrong.  On the other hand, what
>if Japan wants to tie her economy in to this?  We can play hardball too,
>with the rest of east asia with us against Japan, and if we 'allow'
>Iran to cut off the gulf to Japanese shipping, well...  My point is
>I don't think the Japanese government would tie this in to the economy,
>but they want to see how far they can push us to 'revise' our history,
>and from their point of view everything they have done so far, from
>the Abomb-stamp, to the Enola Gay, to the VJday they have won every,
>battle, so why not continue pushing?

This will get me in trouble for sure, but I think that all history, official
or not, is written out of just these kinds of struggles. We- either
historians or not, Japanese or not, governments or not- all have our agendas
that we- from a position of power or not- work out in a complicated series
of negotiations. Even if we imagine some 'pure' intellectual work in which
we arrive at consensus and 'truth' there is still the messy process of
getting that 'truth' into the schools and so on. That 'dirty' and
'political' process includes this list, and it includes what you or I might
consider some pretty wako ideas. It all goes into the mix. In this sense-
and this sense specifically- the Japanese are only doing what we all do:
pushing their own agendas as far as they can. I am still interested in
knowing how far we should push back, and to what end.

Do we, say, keep VJ day as it is, but try to get the Japanese to understand?
We don't, for example, call the Fourth of July, Victory over England. In
this light I like the idea of an War's end celebration, done with the
Japanese and the Germans. Surely the one thing we can all try to agree on is
that the 'end' of the war is worth remembering. And given that we are trying
to work out problems (not impose our ideas on the other party, never a good
tactic in a conversation) we have to start with the common ground. In any
case, I think I would rather push for that kind of cooperation (given that
some elements in Japan and Germany and the US would not like that) rather
than for almost anything else which would encourage the idea that making
someone into 'the ultimate enemy' is a good idea. Thats not history, its a
politcal cartoon. If there are consequnces to be paid in this, then I want
the 'end' to be worth the investment.

In order to be able to honestly say that the vets did something worthwhile,
I think we have to stick to the principles that they died for. The stakes
for us are much lower, after all. One of those principles is that
'agression' is no way to conduct affairs between people. And the way not to
be agressive, here, is to use all this knowledge to do more than complain,
but to try to work out concrete solutions based on mutual respect. That's
always more difficult than just pushing people around. I'd love to see the
Vets groups in all three countries try to come up with a mutual solution:
that simple effort, to me, would embody best the principles that I like to
think made 'our' victory so important to remember. No matter what the PR
folk did or said, then, we would be drawing the line, not between
Japan/Germany/Italy and Europe/America, etc. but between those who chose
cooperation and understanding and those who chose violence and force. I want
my kids to be taught that preventing war is a job that has to be done
everywhere, not just 'out there' and I want them to be able to recognize
agression and resist it, in whatever guise it takes.

 Maybe they can even get us to
>change our flag from the flag that went up over so many criminally
>murdered Japanese to a more benign format? (facetious)
>
>John E. Kollar

Would you give up a 'symbol' for a larger cause?

Ray Watkins
A.I., Department of Rhetoric and Composition
English, University of Texas at Austin

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 11:58:48 -0500
From:    "Charles R. Hensel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: VJ Day

On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Robert Martensson wrote:

> >There is a sad irony that just before the 50th Anniversary of
> >V-E/V-J Day, the US dollar is plunging to an all-time low as
> >a result of financial machinations by Germany and Japan.
> >
> Could people please stick to the subject WW2 and not drag current economical
> and political affairs into the fray. There is sure enough postings in this
> list as it is (my work is suffering :-)).
>
> In all friendliness
>         Robert Maartensson
>         [email-masked]
>
Although the current state of the US dollar has nothing to do directly
with WWII, it is important to kee4p current affairs in context with the
past.  In this day and age, discussion of that sort is the only way many
people are exposed to our history.  God knows the schools aren't helping.

--Chuck Hensel
  Lycoming College Class of '98

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 12:09:34 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Tactical afterthoughts on Japan part 5

        Emanuel, thanks for the elaboration on the admittedly confusing naming
and numbering of the Curtiss Hawk series aircraft.  I do believe, however, that
the aircraft I was referring to, both in North Africa and in New Guinea, were
of the later series with the Rolls-Royce Merlins.

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 12:39:33 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re2: THOUGHTS: Germany and guilt

        Let's not forget that the Laconia Order resulted from an incident where
Axis submarines in an attempt to rescue survivors from a sunken Allied ship
were repeatedly attacked by Allied aircraft.

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 12:38:51 -0500
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: THOUGHTS: Germany and guilt

William Lippert <[email-masked]> writes:
> ... In the case of Doenitz,
> he was found guilty, I think, of waging aggressive war and war crimes.  The
> first was because of his position as Fuhrer der U-Boat and then CINC-Kriegs-
> marine.  The second was for his infamous "Laconia" order, I think it was
> called, saying that (and this is not a direct quote but off the top of my
> head) "the rescuing of surivivng crew members of enemy ships is incompatible
> with the total war on the sea.  All efforts must be taken to see that the
> crew of enemy ships do not hinder naval operations".

        Here is some info that I have on the incident that prompted the
"Laconia Order".

        On Spetember 12, 1942, the U-156 sunk the liner "Laconia" near
Ascension Island.  Kapitan-Leutnant Hartenstein surfaced his submarine
to begin rescuing the ship's passengers, mostly Italian prisoners-of-war
and the families of servicemen, and sent a radio message alerting the
Allies to the situation.  Two other U-boats, and an Italian submarine,
changed course to assist, and Admiral Doenitz requested help from Vichy
ships in Dakar.

        The U. S. 1st Composite Squadron on Ascension Island received
the message from the U-156 but claimed that the message was garbled and
that it was not informed that the Germans were involved it rescuing the
survivors.  The squadron was asked to provide an air-escort for the
British lifeboats.  Meanwhile, on September 16, an American B-24 Liberator
of the USAAF 343rd BS was flying from Ascension to Africa and spotted
the British boats with the surfaced U-156 displaying Red Cross flags.
The pilot, Lt. Harden, asked for instructions from the commander of
the 1st CS, Captain Richardson, and was ordered to attack.

        On September 17, following this attack on the U-156, which was
still engaged in rescue operations, Admiral Doenitz issued his "Laconia
Order," forbidding U-boats to attempt to save the passengers and crews
of their targets in order to protect the submarines.
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
It's a Mark 6!  And we got her by the ass!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 14:41:14 -0500
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Request

Can anyone tell me if the library at the US Army War College, Carlisle Barracks
PA can be accessed electronically?

-- Warren Thompson

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 12:05:37 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: NOST:  UK Sites

Chris Albee...
        AS well as the Imperial War Museum and RAF Duxford, there are
several other WW2-related places near London.

        Among them:

        Kent Battle Of Britain Museum
        Hawkinge, Nr Folkstone, Kent.

        Airborne Forces Museum
        (Parachute Regt & Glider Pilots Reg)
        Browning Barracks, Aldershot, Hants.

        Aldershot Military Museum
        ('Home Of The British Army")
        Aldershot, Hants.

        Royal Air Force Museum
        Hendon
        (on the "Tube"
        (on the Lundon Underground "Tube", Northern Line to Colindale Stn)

        D-Day Museum
        Portsmouth.

Lots of others, but I guess you'll already have a longer list than you need.

Bon Voyage -- Sidney.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 17:16:35 +0500
From:    Claude Lamazouere <[email-masked]>
Subject: WWII German, US & Soviet Veterans

Hi,

I'm presently working on VE-day.  Are you in touch with German or Soviet
veterans involved in the last battles in Europe (Berlin particulary)?
On the other hand do you know any US vet of the 69th infantry division who
were the first Amrican soldiers to meet the Soviets in Torgau on April, 26th
1945?

I want to make interviews with such persons for a radio documentary to be
broadcast next month on the Canadian national radio.

Any other suggestion is welcome..

Thank you for your help
Claude Lamazouere, Societe Radio-Canada
[email-masked]
tel: (514) 597-5773
fax: (514) 597-5728

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 17:37:55 -0400
From:    John Baxter Jones <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Your Recent Post (was: Intro to List)

On Tue, 7 Mar 1995, George Bauer wrote:

> I hope the misspellings in your recent post are typographical errors
> rather than actual misspellings

* JBJ responds-
Mr. Bauer:
     I rarely respond to such inane baiting--but just to give some
color to your (obviously) otherwise sad existence--I will try to
answer your concerns. I aplogize to the other list members in advance.
     #1- If you are going to be this nitpicking and petty-minded
(if I may be allowed to stray from the <your> straight-and-narrow
<mindedness>), please be specific as to my mistakes so that we all can
determine whether *your* spelling ability is as intact as your
megalomaniacal (sp?) ego;
     #2- Since I, like most others on this list, have a life which
includes other meaningful, important activities over and above this list,
I must confess to actually posting with "spelin' errs" from time to time
due to a lack of time to adequately correct same (realizing, of course,
that this is a cardinal sin that I, and other perpetrators <sp?> on this
list, will surely burn in Hell for);
     #3- Your concern for my academic soul, while appreciated, begs the
question: Is this a WWII (content oriented) list, or is it a SPELL-L
(spelling bee list)?

-Mr. George Bauer voices further concerns:
>--particularly since you claim to be a high school social science teacher.

* JBJ responds-
     What is this "claim" bullshit?  Do you suggest that I may have spent
half my life in the classroom pretending to be a teacher?  Wait until the
authorities at the local Board (finally) catch on to this!  There will
certainly be hell to pay! {Does a misspelled word <gasp!> mean that I
will have to give back my Master's Degree(s) and 20+ years of certification?}

-Mr. George Bauer voices even greater concerns:
> Or should I assume that teachers can't > spell?

* JBJ responds-
     Didn't your mother (or your college professors <"assuming", of
course, that you have a degree>) ever tell you what happens when you
*assume* something?  It makes an *ass* out of *u* and *me*! (I aplogize to
the other 99.44% of this list who have heard this eons ago.)

-Mr. George Bauer voices the ultimate concern:
> Oh yes, there was also a grammatical error.
> "Another misspelling?"

* JBJ responds-
     (gasp! to the 3rd power) May I respectfully suggest that Mr. Bauer
(or someone with *real* expertise) take a close look at his *own* post as
to grammatical errors (Re <being somewhat more specific than he>: "Or
should I assume that teachers can't spell?" *and* ""Another
misspelling?"" <Are these *really* independent sentences?>)
     Furthermore (said with chin jutting indignantly out), since when has
it been appropriate for one (even *one* as obvioulsy learned as Mr. <Dr.?>
Bauer) to put in quotes ("Another misspelling?") his own *obviously*
overblown observations?  Does this denote a higher level of expertise?
Does this denote how one feels about himself?  Do you have trouble
getting your giant ego through doorways?
     Mr. Bauer, I would be remiss if I did not touch upon one last point.
Was there something in particular in my introductory post that set you
off?  Is it because I am from the backwoods of North Carolina?  Could
it be the fact that I am a Vietnam vet who is proud of his service?
Could I be somewhat more facetious (sp?)?
     Since there are, obviously, many others on this list who are
educators..who are more concerned with content than spelling..who don't
have the time necessary to correct every little mistake in their
contributions to the combined knowledge of the list members, then, Sir, it
would seemingly follow that you would be kept busy in your obvious efforts
to police the writings herein.  Is this the case, Sir?!  If not, then,
Sir, why trash my well-meaning, sincere self-introduction to this
assembled membership--I came here to learn HISTORY!.  Was I not humble
enough? Did I not bow and scrape correctly?
     Jeez..I feel almost as stupid as you seem by my giving enough
credence to your self-aggrandizement (sp?) to even respond at all....

Lay chilly...get a real life,

John Baxter Jones
dau tieng '67--'68

* One last observation: It doesn't take a genius to be a mean-spirited
person.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 16:38:44 -0600
From:    Kelvin Brent Luther <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: endlossung/Germans or Nazis?

On Tue, 7 Mar 1995, Alex Bielakowski wrote:

> On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Kelvin Luther wrote:
>
>         Finally, the only country not to contribute to the holocaust was
> Bulgaria.  They refused to export their Jewish population to Poland, and
> were the only European country in the German domain to see a war time
> increase in their Jewish population.  It was possible for people to
> resist collaborating with the holocaust and your right, France deserves
> to be exposed for their unparalleled amount of collaboration.
>
> Kelvin,
>      While the Bulgarians may not have actively contributed to the
> Holocaust, the fact that they were an Axis power prevents them from
> claiming that they had no part in the Holocaust.  By giving military
> aid to the Germans they allowed the Germans to divert men and material
> to the Concentration Camps.  Someone else suggested that the Poles
> might have been both anti-German and anti-Semitic.  Using that analogy
> the Bulgarians might be described as pro-German and pro-Jewish.
>
> Alex Bielakowski
>
        I was not commenting on their contribution to the Axis cause but
answering the idea that the Poles were somehow being singled out for
their contribution to the holocaust.  As for giving military aid I would
be interested in knowing what kind of contribution Bulgaria made to the
war effort if anyone out there knows of a source please let me know.  I
feel safe in saying that their contribution to the war effort is a
roundabout way of assigning guilt for the holocaust (as mentioned above
France's contribution was large both militarily as well as direct
contributions to the holocaust).  Militarily many more German soldiers
were free to man camps and round up Jews because they didn't have to
occupy collaborationist Vichy France to the same extent they would occupy
any other conquered area.  I was also trying to point out that the simple
fact that many other people died in the camps besides Jews does not mean
the rest of the people from their group didn't contribute.  If thousands
of Catholics died it doesn't mean Catholics didn't contribute to the
roundups.  They were not interned because they were Catholics but because
they either had a Jewish relative, inlaw, or had tried to protect people
from the camps.  Much has also been written about how the Germans
considered just about everything and everyone they disagreed with to be
Jewish and degenerate.  Rest assured that anyone in the camps had somehow
been placed in this category.
        I also want to come to Bulgaria's defense a little.  They were
surrounded by hostile countries and made the decision to ally with the
obvious holder of power in their region against the Russians.  Because of
this they managed to maintain some semblance of autonomy and saved their
Jewish population (I am not implying that saving the Jews was their
motivation only the outcome of their retaining power).  The Danes managed
to save their Jewish population because they too had some autonomy after
the Germans invaded (I believe they then lost their control over their
gov't).  Finally the Finns also managed to deny the Germans the right to
export their Jewish population to the camps.  Again, a country forced to
ally itself to the Germans because of the Russians.  We can sit back and
say the Russians were our allies but this was only out of convenience to
them.  They cooperated with Hitler and later Japan in their aggressive
expansionist policies.  Would Hitler have invaded Poland when he did if
Russia hadn't colluded with him to divide it?  I for one resent Russia's
actions far more than Finland's or Bulgaria's regardless of their later
being thrown into the allied arena by a German invasion.
                                Kelvin Luther

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 17:01:40 -0600
From:    Terrence Lindell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: NOST:  UK Sites

Chris,

Regarding your question about sites to visit in the London area, I would
encourage you to look for a copy of the following book:

        Bookman, John T. and Powers, Stephen T.  _The March to Victory:
                A Guide to World War II Battles and Battlefields
                from London to the Rhine_.  Revised ed.
                Niwat, CO:  University Press of Colorado, 1994.

It lists museums and historic sites, giving hours and stating whether
or not there is an admission fee (but not how much).

Enjoy the visit!

Terry Lindell
Department of History
Wartburg College
Waverly, Iowa  50677
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 19:04:23 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: VICTORY AT SEA

The producer of the show, Henry Solomon, I believe his name is, was himself a
naval officer and worked with Samuel Eliot Morison in collecting naval history
and preparing Morison's 15-volume history of the Navy in WWII. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 19:00:34 EST
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 09-MAR-1945

On 09-MAR-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the Canadian 1st Army sector, the Canadian 4th Division
takes Veen. In the U.S. 1st Army sector, the 1st Division captures Bonne.
The 9th Division takes over control of the bridgehead at Remagen, while the
Germans continue to try to destroy the bridge by bombing. In the 3rd Army
sector, the VII Corps reaches the Rhine.

Philippines - The XIV Corps continues eastward attacks. In the 8th Army
sector, the naval bombardment of the Zamboanga area in Mindanao is begun in
preparation for attack.

Iwo Jima - The VAC continues efforts to clear the rest of Iwo. The 3rd
Marine Division breaks through to the coast in the corps center, splitting
the Japanese forces remaining on the island. The division also continues
the reduction of bypassed pockets in the rear. The 4th and 5th Marine
Divisions are unable to advance any appreciable amount on the flanks.

Japan - Powerfull fire raids on Japanese cities occur on the nights of the
9th and 10th. This marks a radical change in prvious tactics from precision
bombing against industrial targets to a concentration on wearing down the
Japanese will to resist in preparation for an invasion of Japan.

The Homefront
-------------
Troops To Be Redeployed - A War Department source reports that after V-E
day a "big load" of soldiers will return to the U.S. for redeployment to
the Orient, while others will be shipped there directly.

Mass Army Furlough - Wearing scores of Purple Hearts and other decorations,
5,380 veterans of battles in Italy arrive at Camp Kilmer, N.J. on rotation
furlough.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                           | [email-masked]
Cary, North Carolina                 | http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 16:52:10 -0800
From:    Steve New <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INFO. German Professor Abbreviations

You wrote:

>
>People,
>Here is another one for you. I am in the midst of reading a book on the
V-1
>and V-2 projects. There keep popping up abbreviations in front of
scientists
>names that I have no idea what they mean. Help! What does Dipl. Ing.
and Dr.
>Ing. mean when used in front of a persons name?
>Thanks,
>Matthew Burchette
>
>
Dipl. Ing.  An engineer with a diploma.

Dr. Ing.  An engineer with a doctorate.

--

Steve L. New
[email-masked]
Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 16:59:15 -0800
From:    Steve New <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: more on "Glacier Girl" P-38F

You wrote:

>
>Dennis E. Sparks <[email-masked]> writes:
>> After mailing off photographs of the aircraft to several people on
the
>> list, I still have 30 or 40 shots left over.  If anyone else is
interested,
>> drop me a note, and I'll be glad to send you a few.
>
>        Can anyone scan these photos in and be made available via ftp?
>--
>Joe Barone
>[email-masked]
>What's he want a yacht for?  There ain't no money in yachts...
>
>

Joe,

I'll be glad to scan them (as soon as I convince Dennis to send me a
set).  As for FTP, I'm pretty sure that BYRD would accept them, but I'd
have to check with them first.

I'm willing to give it a try.

--

Steve L. New
[email-masked]
Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 15:49:23 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: VJ Day

Chuck Hensel...

        "... God knows the schools aren't helping [study of history] ..."

Precisely.

--

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 20:51:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 9 MAR 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FRIDAY, 9 MARCH 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-26, Douglas Invader
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): 3 B-24s fly a negative shipping search.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 32 B-24s, escorted by 5
P-51s, bomb railroad yards at Sinsiang; 15 B-25s and 2 P-40s knock out 2
bridges at Hwaiyuanchen and E of Jungtse, and hit railroad targets and other
targets of opportunity at Yehhsien, Chowkiakow, Hsuchang, and E of Junan; 50+
fighter-bombers on armed reconnaissance attack railroad targets, river and
road traffic, bridges, gun positions, and troops at several locations,
particularly around Kweiyi, Hengyang, Nanking, and Sinyang.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 16 P-47s support elements
of the Chinese 50th Division near Mansam; 80+ fighter-bombers operating over
and behind enemy lines attack trucks, horses and carts, troops, and artillery
pieces. 568 air supply sorties are flown to forward areas.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
  Mission 875: 1,045 bombers and 443 fighters are dispatched to hit
marshalling yards and industrial plants in Germany; they claim 0-0-2
Luftwaffe aircraft; 7 bombers are lost:
  1. 423 B-17s are sent to hit the Ost (150) and Main (222) marshalling yards
and a casting plant (38) at Frankfurt visually and using Micro H, H2X radar
and smoke markers; 6 B-17s also fly a screening mission; 3 B-17s are lost, 1
damaged beyond repair and 182 damaged; 7 airmen are WIA and 28 MIA. Escorting
are 94 of 101 P-51s; they claim 0-0-1 aircraft in the air.
  2. 318 of 336 B-17s attack the marshalling yard and a large tank factory at
Kassel visually; 6 other B-17s fly a screening mission; 3 B-17s are lost, 2
damaged beyond repair and 188 damaged; 4 airmen are WIA and 28 MIA. The
escort is 97 of 99 P-51s; 1 is damaged beyond repair.
  3. 282 B-24s are sent to bomb marshalling yards at Munster (97), Rheine
(93) and Osnabruck (87) using Gee-H and H2X; 1 B-24 is lost and 52 damaged; 1
airman is WIA and 12 MIA. 47 of 51 P-51s escort.
  4. 4 B-17s fly a scouting mission.
  5. 141 P-47s and P-51s fly a freelance sweep in support of the bombers; 1
P-51 is damaged beyond repair.
  6. 27 P-51s fly a scouting mission.
  7. 15 P-51s escort 12 F-5s and 3 Spitfires on a photo reconnaissance mission
over Germany; they claim 0-0-1 aircraft in the air.
  Mission 876: 11 B-24s drop leaflets in the Netherlands, France and Germany
during the night; and 2 of 9 B-24s fly CARPETBAGGER missions.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In Germany, 600+ A-20s, A-26s and
B-26s hit 6 marshalling yards, storage and vehicle depots, ammunition-filling
plants, and 12 targets of opportunity as part of the interdiction campaign;
fighters fly armed reconnaissance, hit special targets, cover the Remagen
bridgehead and support the US 9th Infantry and 9th Armored Divisions
committed there, support the 4th Armored Division at the Mosel River bridge
at Treis, the XX Corps along the Mosel and Saar Rivers, and the XVI Corps
along the Rhine River near Wesel. The 125th Liaison Squadron, IX Fighter
Command [attached to the XXIX Tactical Air Command (Provisional)], moves from
Maastricht, the Netherlands to Monchen-Gladbach, Germany with L-5s; and the
153d Liaison Squadron, IX Tactical Air Command (attached to Twelfth Army
Group), moves from Spa, Belgium to Duren, Germany with L-5s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 372 B-17s and B-24s, with
fighter escorts, bomb marshalling yards at Graz (2 yards), Klagenfurt, Sankt
Stefan, and Sankt Paul, Austria, and Ljubljana, Yugoslavia; river bridges at
Sankt Paul are also bombed; 27 P-38s bomb the Knittelfeld, Austria
marshalling yard and 13 others strafe the Graz, Austria-Maribor, Yugoslavia
railroad lines. Routine supply, reconnaissance, and escort missions continue.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s hit bridges at San
Ambrogio di Valpolicella, San Michele all'Adige, Bozzolo, Santa Margherita
d'Adige, Ora, and Montebello, the marshalling yard at Ora, and the bridge
approach at Ala; fighters and fighter-bombers attack bridges, railroads,
vehicles, trains, supply dumps, parked airplanes, buildings, and other
targets over wide areas, including Milan, Cittadella, Ala, Santa Margherita
d'Adige, La Spezia, Ghedi, Lecco, and the battle area in the N Apennines.
A-20s, on intruder missions during the night of 8/9 Mar, bomb river crossings
in the Po Valley at several locations, among them Ostiglia, San Benedetto Po,
and Borgoforte.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 13 Guam Island-based B-24s fly a daylight
strike on Susaki Airfield on Chichi Jima Island while 5 more, on single-
bomber raids, hit the airfield during the night of 9/10 Mar. 24 Angaur
Island-based B-24s pound the town of Zamboanga on Mindanao Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s bomb
Zamboanga on Mindanao Island. B-25s, in cooperation with PT boats, attack
targets on Basilan Island, Philippine Islands. On Luzon Island, B-24s hit
the Ipo area, B-25s and fighter-bombers support ground forces E of Manila
Bay, hit Japanese-occupied areas at Mabiga, Lipa Bay, and Ternate, and bomb
and strafe targets of opportunity on Caballo Island in Manila Bay; B-25s,
A-20s, and fighter-bombers hit bridges at Bayombong, the town of Makati,
Cabugao, and Cauayan, San Fernando and the Solvec Cove areas on the NW coast,
the town of Cauayan, and Aparri Airfield. B-24s pound the dock area at Takao,
Formosa.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

09/0150Z MAR

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 21:13:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Tokyo Raid

>From the US Air Force News Service
      Feature Package

020.  Tokyo Fire Raid anniversary
021.  Career soldier recalls bombing run on Japanese
022.  Challenges in Cuba
                              &    &    &
                              &    &    &
                              &    &    &
020.  Tokyo Fire Raid anniversary
by Daniel L. Haulman
     MAXWELL AFB, Alabama (AFNS Features) -- During the three and a
half months before March 1945, the largest and most advanced bombers
of World War II systematically raided Japan from the Marianas.
Approaching at high altitudes of 30,000 feet (9,144 m), the B-29
Superfortresses faced strong jet stream winds that blew them and
their bombs off course, and cloud cover that obscured their targets.
They rarely hit the relatively small Japanese factories, which were
scattered throughout the large cities.
     Aware that Japanese cities were constructed of highly flammable
materials, Major General Curtis E. LeMay, commander of the XXI Bomber
Command, conceived a radical solution:  low-level incendiary bombing at
night.  Attacking at night would minimize the threat of flak and
fighters, eliminate the need to attack at high altitude, and allow
LeMay to increase bomb loads by stripping the B-29s of most of their
guns.  Approaching the targets beneath the clouds and jet stream
would increase accuracy.  A single fire bombing raid might destroy
several industries at the same time.
     On the evening of March 9, 1945, LeMay launched more than 300
Superfortresses, each laden with six tons of fire bombs, against
Japan's largest city, Tokyo.  Approaching just after midnight at
altitudes between 5,000 and 9,000 feet (1,524 and 2,743 m), the first
bombers laid out a giant X pattern with napalm over a three-by-four-
mile (4.8 by 6.4 km) section of eastern Tokyo.  Other bombers dropped
on the pattern.  In three hours, almost 2,000 tons of incendiaries
rained over the Japanese capital.
     The Japanese were unprepared for the revolutionary tactics.
Antiaircraft artillery missed most of the bombers.  Flak brought down
only 14 Superfortresses and damaged another 42.  Japanese fighters
failed to destroyed a single B-29.  Japanese losses, on the other hand,
were astounding.
     Sixteen square miles (41.5 squadre km) of Tokyo, including more
than 18 percent of its commercial area, burned to the ground.  The
raid killed at least 83,000 of the 6 million people then in the city,
and destroyed more than 267,000 buildings, a quarter of the total.  A
million people lost their homes.  No other single air raid in the
history of the world killed more people or destroyed more property.
When he personally inspected the devastated area on March 18, Emperor
Hirohito was greatly moved.
     The great Tokyo fire raid of March 10 changed the course of the
war.  Destroying at least 22 industrial targets, it proved that the
Superfortresses could severely damage Japan's industrial base.
Secondly, the raid signaled a shift in American bombing strategy from
precision attacks on specific targets to mass destruction of urban
areas.  Culminating in the atomic bomb attacks on Hiroshima and
Nagasaki, the new policy sapped Japanese morale and decisively
influenced the emperor's decision to surrender.
(Haulman is assigned to the Air Force Historical Research Agency)
                      &     &     &
                      &     &     &
                      &     &     &
021.  Career soldier recalls bombing run on Japanese
by SSgt. Stephen Pierce
     TRAVIS AFB, California (AFNS Features) -- The old phrase, "the
third time's a charm," rings true with George Justice -- his military
career spans three separate enlistments from 1937 to 1973.
     His first stint in the military lasted three years as a vehicle
operator in the Army, but he could only stay away about month before
joining the Army Air Corps as an aircraft mechanic.  When World War II
was over, Justice decided he had enough of military life.  His
decision to stay away was changed by the escalation of events in
Korea. After being recalled to active duty, Justice decided to hang
around a while this time.
     The retired senior master sergeant considers himself one of the
luckiest men alive, having survived the combat theater during World War
II and the Vietnam Conflict.
     "Every day I would walk down the same path to the hard stand
(where the aircraft are parked).  One day I noticed a hand grenade
lying on the edge of the path, apparently for quite some time.  After
the bomb guys exploded it, I realized just one wrong step and that
could have been me," said Justice about one experience on the tiny
Pacific island of Saipan during World War II.
     Another unforgettable experience happened the night he first
arrived on Saipan in November 1944.  "We were told to dig a foxhole
next to our tent, but like a few others, I didn't the first night.
About midnight that night as Tokyo Rose promised, those Zeros came in
strafing the base.  As I was trying to find some kind of cover, I kept
thinking, 'God I'll dig my hole if they just let me live through
tonight,'" said Justice.
     Just as embedded into his memory of his time at Saipan were his
accomplishments and the successes of the aircraft he maintained.
     "My aircraft flew 29 straight missions without an abort.  That
means when it was scheduled, it went," he said. "Not all the airplanes
came back. Some with only one engine.  Fortunately, none of my aircraft
had any serious damage."
     Justice said the early days of the Army Air Corps had one thing
over the Air Force of today -- total unit cohesiveness. He prefers the
concept of a whole unit going as a team, not just one person from here
and there.
     "When the chips are down, I want to know who I can count on," he
said.
     During World War II, the Army Air Corps commanders counted on the
B-29 Superfortress crews of the 500th Bombardment Group (Very Heavy)
stationed on Saipan.  Justice was part of that unit, and the following
excerpts about the first fire raid on Tokyo (March 9, 1945) were
written by Arthur Miller and appeared in the unit's memory book, An
Unofficial Pictorial History of the 500th Bombardment Group.
     "It was a sober group of combat crews who walked slowly back to
their Quonsets after the briefing. 'Over Tokyo at 5,000 feet' -- it
was inconceivable, beyond comprehension. 'What would they think of
next?' mused more than one as he got his gear together and prepared to
jump to the flying line.
     Minds slowly reviewed the previous three months -- December,
January and February -- when the 73rd Wing was fighting the battle over
Japan alone, when enemy fighters were thick as flies in an uncovered
latrine, when flak was black and accurate, when crew after crew
heartbreakingly ditched hundreds of miles from home with little hope
of rescue.
     "Then it was time for the 500th and slowly the big 'Z' ships
jockeyed into position, lined up, and roared off, leaving behind a
strangely empty airfield and a quiet group of stay-at-homes.
     "To the uninitiated, it may be stated without equivocation that it
is a mighty long road from Saipan to Tokyo over a mighty wide
and deep ocean.  Cruising along, all alone except for occasional
glimpses of running lights from other planes, the crews felt lonely
and a million miles from nowhere. The flight plan called for each
plane to fly by way of Iwo Jima, for by this time the Marines had
the situation in hand on that little bit of Purgatory, and it furnished
an excellent checkpoint.
     "Landfall! The tip of the Chofu peninsula -- about 35 miles
(56 km) away -- was showing on the radar screen. ... Then a faint
glow appears, looking like the very beginning of sunrise, quickly
expanding into a bright orange reflection in the sky.  The
bombardier opens the doors and at the same time the plane plunges
headlong into a huge column of acrid, black smoke.  It is tossed
around like a leaf, the turbulence is worse than a West Texas
thunderstorm.  Suddenly they are out of the smoke and there below
lies a panorama out of Dante's Inferno, a huge, gushing, roaring fire
licking its irresistible way through the heart of proud Tokyo.
     "Result of this mission: 17.2 square miles of Tokyo up in
smoke, a reported 100,000 dead; 500th Group losses on mission,
none.
     "Mission complete." (Pierce is assigned to the 60th Airlift Wing
at Travis)
--
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------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 22:56:05 -0500
From:    chris garcia <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII German, US & Soviet Veterans

On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Claude Lamazouere wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm presently working on VE-day.  Are you in touch with German or Soviet
> veterans involved in the last battles in Europe (Berlin particulary)?
> On the other hand do you know any US vet of the 69th infantry division who
> were the first Amrican soldiers to meet the Soviets in Torgau on April, 26th
> 1945?
>
> I want to make interviews with such persons for a radio documentary to be
> broadcast next month on the Canadian national radio.
>
> Any other suggestion is welcome..
>
I am in touch with two Luftwaffe vets, one was a vet of JV44, Wolfgang
spate, who finished out the war on the western front with Galland's
group.  I have some addresses of Luftwaffe reunion groups but I haven't
checked them all out.  If you need information contact me.

> Thank you for your help
> Claude Lamazouere, Societe Radio-Canada
> [email-masked]
> tel: (514) 597-5773
> fax: (514) 597-5728
>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 1995 23:36:20 -0500
From:    "Paul C. Perkins, M.D." <[email-masked]>
Subject: NEW MEMBER

I've been lucky enough to write the manuscripts for two photo books about
 WW2 aircraft. The Lady - The Boeing B-17 and The Solder - Consolidated B-24
Libertaor are published by Howell Press. A third book, about the P-51 Mustang
is soon to go to press.

Truth be known - my biggest thrill is listening to the people who made the
history. I delight in listening to the remembrances of those folks who made
these planes fly... design engineers, production personel,  test pilots,
mechanics, combat pilots...

Don't hesitate. It isn't like you MUST say something profound or
earth-shattering about your experience(s). Descriptions of daily staion life
useful. The machines don't need to be the central focus of your
correspondence.

I am very careful to ensure that people's remembrances are correctly quoted.
 E-mail me at [email-masked]
- Paul C. Perkins, M.D. / 1518 State Rte. 343 / Yellow Springs, Ohio / 45387

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 7 Mar 1995 to 8 Mar 1995
***********************************************