Subject: WWII-L Digest - 29 Mar 1995 to 30 Mar 1995

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 00:01:57 -0500

There are 52 messages totalling 2427 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. USS Ward (DD-139) (4)
  2. Geoffrey Keyes, VC
  3. V-J Day or V-P Day
  4. Search Request (2)
  5. Raid on Cabanatuan #5
  6. MOVIE: Battle of the Bulge (was: Re: Bataan death march)
  7. INF: USN Chronology 03-30-95
  8. WW2 Rifles (2)
  9. MOVIE: Battle of the Bulge (was: Re: Bataan death (2)
 10. MEDIA:Ernst Junger
 11. 1ST MARINE DIV. - 'FOU
 12. INF: 50 Years Ago - 30-MAR-1945
 13. Re[2]: Bataan death march
 14. Re[2]: Bataan death march - book
 15. Shanghai shore leave
 16. MOVIE: Battle of the Bulge (7)
 17. Great World War II movies. (6)
 18. Paul H. Silverstone
 19. Re[2]: MOVIE: Battle of the Bulge
 20. Warbirds In Liechtenstein
 21. Opinions wanted on book (2)
 22. Medals and Awards
 23. Belgians
 24. Returned mail: User unknown (fwd)
 25. MOVIE: Best (Was Battle of the Bulge)
 26. WW2 movies (3)
 27. <No subject given> (2)
 28. WWII Movies
 29. SHANGHAI SHORE LEAVE
 30. ACCIDENTAL KILLING OF
 31. V-J DAY OR V-P DAY

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 00:41:23 -0500
From:    Paul Silverstone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USS Ward (DD-139)

On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Jorge Merino wrote:

> Two questions about destroyers?
>
> 1. Which class did USS Ward belong to?

USS Ward (DD 139) was a flush-deck destroyer, Wickes class.

> 2. How many Fletcher (DD-445) class destroyers were ordered/built?
>
175 Fletcher class destroyers were built.  9 were canceled in 1941 &
reordered under other numbers/

Paul H. Silverstone

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 00:45:20 -0500
From:    Paul Silverstone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Geoffrey Keyes, VC

Geoffrey Keyes who was awarded the VC posthumously was the son of
Admiral of the Fleet Sir Roger Keyes, later Lord Keyes, the hero of
Zeebrugge in World War I and head of the Commandos in WW II.
Paul H. Silverstone

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 00:36:57 EST
From:    Ralph Fasano <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: V-J Day or V-P Day

To Lou Coatney et als: I agree with your proposal re: the changing of VJ Day
designation to something less defamatory like VJM or even VP; with the priviso
that the Japanese government APOLOGIZE for the action of the Samarai
Milatarists who led their nation into WWII.
But, having said that, I don't think it will happen! Why? Because even
recently there was that debacle over the Japanese government's refusal to
compensate the thousands of "Comfort Girls" who were pressed into "servicing"
the Japanese troops throughout Southeast Asia. If memory serves me, they even r
efused to issue an apology! Also, even though we won the war in the Pacific,
their adverse behavior and unfairness in export/import imbalance indicates
an intraqngence that belies their "civility". It would truly surprise and
delight me if they were to apoligize, a gesture that dosen't seem too much to
ask, but I fear they might view apology as a loss of face. To any latter day
Samari's this might be impossible to do!

Comments?

      Ralph Fasano   [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 01:53:32 PST
From:    Jim Brady <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Search Request

>Hello, All!
>
>Can anyone send me the address of the search service for former U.S.
>Army personnel which used to be at Fort Harrison, Ind.? I think now it
>is in St. Louis. Thanks in advance.
>
>Terry
>

Yes, Terry, it is in St. Louis (closer to where I am now, a little farther from Amarillo!). At work I've
got an address and a contact person who is very helpful. I'll get it posted tomorrow...

-- Jim Brady
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 29 Mar 1995 22:47:53 -0800
From:    James Wilson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Raid on Cabanatuan #5

INSTALLMENT FIVE IN A SERIES

Raid on Cabanatuan
a scenario of the published book
"Raid on Cabanatuan"
by Forrest Bryant Johnson
(C) 1988 A Thousand Autumns Press
all rights reserved
REPRODUCED ELECTRONICALLY WITH PERMISSION
3/29/95

Spring, 1944.
--------------
In a jungle camp hidden in New Guinea, a special unit of the U.S. 6th
Army is formed. The men (from a great variety of backgrounds and
branches of the military) begin a strenuous training program.  This
elite group will become known as the "Alamo Scouts." Similar in concept,
training and character to our present day "Green Berets" and "Navy
Seals," the primary function of the "Scouts" is to work behind Japanese
lines and gather intelligence about the enemy's positions, strength,
morale, etc.

Major Bob Lapham and Captain Pajota's guerrilla Army on Luzon receives
arms and supplies by U.S. submarine. In the guerrilla war against the
Japanese, bridges are destroyed, and convoys attacked.

The Imperial Army communications are disrupted on a regular basis.
But, at Camp Cabanatuan, the POW's continue to suffer from beatings
and food shortages. Lapham and Pajota devise a plan to attack the POW
camp and free the Allied prisoners. They believe that the U.S.
submarines could shuttle the POW's from the Philippines, rather than
departing empty.

MacArthur's headquarters rejects the idea, and orders them to "hold
off."

--- TO BE CONTINUED ---
(For info on obtaining a copy of the Book and/or scenario, E-Mail:
Jim Wilson :  [email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 10:06:23 +0200
From:    Cris Whetton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MOVIE: Battle of the Bulge (was: Re: Bataan death march)

>This movie epitomizes all the worst elements of Hollywood's
>attempt at making a(n) historical war movie.

There is also the famous scene where a lighthouse can briefly be seen over
the top of the dunes.

Not to mention Telly Savalas' tank being equipped with two R1155 receivers
(a type used by RAF Bomber Command) instead of the appropriate US t/r.
British (and Russian) tanks used the "No 19 Set" transciever; what did US
tanks use?

Regards,
Cris

Cris Whetton, Ility Engineering Ltd
(As from VTT Manufacturing Technology, Safety Engineering Dept.)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 04:00:18 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 03-30-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
03/30 Fri.  United States naval vessels damaged:
             Heavy cruiser INDIANAPOLIS (CA-35), by suicide plane,
              Okinawa area,
              26 d. 25'N., 127 d. 30'E.
             High-speed transport ROPER (APD-20), by collision,
              Philippine Sea,
              20 d. 57'N., 132 d. 05'E.
            German submarines sunk:
             U-2340, by Army aircraft, Hamburg, Germany.
             U-96, U-429, U-3508, by Army aircraft,
              Wilhelmshaven, Germany.
             U-72, U-329, U-430, U-870, U-884, U-886,
              by Army aircraft, Bremen, Germany.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 06:57:23 -0500
From:    Max Calderwood <[email-masked]>
Subject: WW2 Rifles

First off, those WW2 buffs interested in rifles, surplus, parts, military
vehicles etc. should really consider subscribing to the trade newspaper

           Shotgun News
           P.O. Box 669
           Hastings, Nebraska  68902          (402)463-4586

Last time I checked it was about $15.00 a year and well worth it for the
collector or shooter.  Many companies in this paper regularly advertise
surplus, rifles (Enfields, Garands, Tokarevs, Mausers etc. etc.), as well as
all sorts of collectible militaria.

A lot of brand new, unfired, unissued Moisin Nagant M44 carbines has been
imported by:

             Southern Ohio Guns International
             P.O. Box 590, Lebanon, OH  45036

             (information line 513-932-8148)

These guns are Polish manufacture and are the best finished M44s made. I paid
about $150. for mine (about $165-175. with dealer fees, shipping etc.).  I
LOVE mine and am still cleaning the cosmoline off and waiting for better
weather to take it out plinking (It comes with a new sling too).  These are an
unbeatable deal and will no longer be imported.Hurry.SOG also has new Enfield
No.4, Mk II s.

For complete Russian M91/30 Sniper rifles you can contact:

                Century International Arms, Inc.
                P.O. Box 714
                St.Albans, VT  05478        (802)527-1252

These guns are excellent and have the correct Soviet PU scope and are offered
at $350..  They also have unissued (Irish reserve) Enfield No.4, Mk IIs for
$250. The also have original Soviet M44s in good condition for $100. ($250.
for one with a PU scope fitted...nice but historically incorrect).

Another company with Moisin Nagant, Enfields, Mausers etc is:

                Navy Arms
                689 Bergen Blvd.
                 Ridgefield, NJ 07657

Your local gunshop or FFL dealer might already have their catalogs.

Be sure and act since even bolt action "assault rifles" will no longer be
imported.

Best wishes

Max

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 07:27:07 GMT
From:    "RSTZWS@ROHVM1" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MOVIE: Battle of the Bulge (was: Re: Bataan death

*** Reply to note of 03/30/95 06:00
From: Bill Shade
Subject: Re: MOVIE: Battle of the Bulge (was: Re: Bataan death

Just a question from someone who hasn't spent a lot of time on WWII movies-
What are considered to be the "best" movies out of Hollywood?

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 12:50:23 BST
From:    Stephen Baldwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA:Ernst Junger

Daily Telegraph, Saturday March 25th

Part 1 (abridged)

On Wednesday, [ie yesterday] Ernst Junger - writer, soldier,
scientist, philosopher, tireless traveller,and enthusiastic amateur
of hallucinogenic drugs - turns 100. A contradictory, controversial
figure throughout his life, he has been decorated and damned for his
record in two world wars, praised and punished for his patriotism and
resistance to the Nazis, and banned by both Goebbels and the British
military authorities in post-1945 Germany.

Junger has lived close to violence since the age of 18, when he ran away
from his comfortable middle-class home and joined the French Foreign
Legion in North Africa. The following year, 1914, he enlisted in the
German army. He was wounded seven times in the trenches of the
Western Front, and won, among other honours, the Iron Cross First Class,
and the coveted "Blue Max" - of which he is the only surviving holder.
Today, he proudly displays in his study, his steel helmet pierced by a
British sniper's bullet on the Somme.

Junger's eldest son, Ernstl, was sent to his death in the last days of
the Second World War for anti-Hitler resistance activities. Junger
himself narrowly escaped a similar fate for his peripheral involvement
in the Stauffenberg bomb plot of 1944. He now lives opposite the
Stauffenberg family castle in Wilflingen. It is this tiny village in
Southern Germany to which politicians such as Helmut Kohl, Francois
Mitterand, and Felipe Gonzalez make regular visits of homage.
...
Incredibly, Junger still pours out a steady stream of books - novels,
journals, travel diaries, and reflections on drugs, politics, and
history. His output began in 1920 with "Storm of Steel", a classic
account of front-line fighting...
...
His message of mystic militarism culminated in 1932, in "The Worker",
which calls for a society of worker-soldier-scientists forging a post-
natural order. His writings were grist to the mill of those
undermining the Weimar Republic, but Junger held himself aloof from the
adulation of the Nazis with aristocratic disdain.

Perceiving the bestial nature of National Socialism at an early stage,
Junger nevertheless refused to join other German writers in exile. "I
have chosen a high place," he told a friend, "from where I can watch
people devouring each other like bugs". This clinical, detached attitude
was no accident. A trained entomologist, Junger calls himself
"Always the observer, not the participant".

more later...
steve baldwin
[email-masked]

FYI, Storm of Steel is, I am informed, available in the US published
by Howard Fertig, New York I believe. It has recently been republished
in the UK.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 07:44:52 EST
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 1ST MARINE DIV. - 'FOU

Well,... I suddenly feel like the insulation of time and distance have
been removed and I should tread more lightly. You know, Ben, I don't mean
to dredge up memories that set anyone back; a tough goal given the topic.
'Appreciate your candid posts. I believe the list joins me in these
regards. The personal nature of this thread has run its course.

I'll browse through Buds' book when it arrives,...

Amicably, Alan

Ben said:
>Thanks, Alan, for the update on Jim Wilbur. I knew he lived in Illinois
>somewhere, but then heard he had gone to Rhode Island(?). As a matter of fact,
>I returned the week before last from San Antonio and the Nimitz Foundation
>conference, where I spoke. Another old buddy, C.B. White, is retired in the
>area and we have maintained contact over the years. I spent a pleasant evening
>with him and his wife. I don't know that Carmine Zapelli died in Jim's arms,
>but he died on Okinawa. One of the other guys in the outfit was cleaning his
>M-1 and had an accidental discharge. It was an armor-piercing round which went
>through Carmine's stomach and just about destroyed the knee of his pup-tent
>mate, a kid by the name of Lieberkowski whom we called "Chicken." Carmine died
>because he was so scared and in shock, his veins deflated and the corpsman
>couldn't a needle and plasma into him. We watched him die. C.B. and I spoke of
>him just the other night. The guy who shot him was hustled out of the outfit
>immediately and no one ever saw him again, except I did in my home town of
>Stamford. This guy was older than the rest of us, a draftee, and not too well
>liked. He was a hair dresser in civilian life. When I met him, a number of
>years after the war, he still didn't know what happened. I told him. This is
>something he'll have to live with for the rest of his life. Anyway, thanks for
>the information. Ben Frank

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

American Legion, Post 102
I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 08:10:42 EST
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 30-MAR-1945

[Note - The 50 YA article dated 28-MAR-1945 was actually for 29-MAR-1945. I
inadvertantely picked up the wrong date in my sources. If I have time, I will
go back and pickup the material for the 28th; but I can't make any promises. I
have been very busy lately and have not had as much time for the column as I
would like. That is why they have been shorter than usual and why I haven't
had much homefront news. My goal is to continue writing the column until the
end of the war. At that point, I will make a decision whether to go back and
start back at the beginning of the war. John]

On 30-MAR-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the British 2nd Army sector, the Canadian II Corps captures
Emmerich. In the U.S. 1st Army sector, the III and V Corps reach the Eder and
begin crossing it. In the 3rd Army sector, the VII Corps continues pushing
towards Usingen, Neufhof and Eltville. The XX Corps is advancing north of
Frankfurt towards Kassel. The XII Corps advances towards Fulda and
Michelan-Leisenwald.

Eastern Front - The 2nd White Russian Front completes capturing Danzig. The
1st White Russian Front continues liquidating pockets at Glogau and Breslau.
The 2nd Ukraine Front is advancing along the Chzechoslovakia and Hungararian
frontier, crossing the Hron and Nitra. The 3rd Ukraine Front continues to
advance into Austria.

Ryukyu Islands - Air and naval bombardment on Okinawa continues in preparation
for invasion.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                           |                      [email-masked]
Cary, North Carolina                 |            http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 07:37:06 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Search Request

Hello, Jim!

Thanks a million! Looking forward to receiving it.

All the best, as always.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 08:47:54 EST
From:    Mike Oaks <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Bataan death march

On Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:57:59 EST,
OConnor, Christopher M  <[email-masked]> wrote:

>MacArthur was given to much credit.
 IMHO In Bob Asprey's book on
>>guerillas throughout history, he identifies that many officers, cut off
>>by the surprise, formed guerilla units and were aided and in part supplied
>>by Filipino natives on Luzon.

sounds like an interesting book!! Could you please furnish the full title.

     Thanks,
          Mike Oaks
     [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 07:56:33 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MOVIE: Battle of the Bulge (was: Re: Bataan death

Hello, Bill!

IMHO,

Hello, Bill!

For my money, The Best Years of Our Lives is a great one!! I highly
recommend that one. There are others, but this one always come to
mind first when I ponder this topic.

All the best.

Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 09:05:02 EST
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: Bataan death march - book

Hi Mike,  _War in the Shadows_, The Guerilla in History
           by Robert B. Asprey ... published by Morrow
           ISBN: 0-688-12815-7

'Starts with Darius and the Scythians, 1200+ pages later, 'ends with
effects of widespread famine in Africa.

Enjoy,... -Alan

>>MacArthur was given to much credit.
> IMHO In Bob Asprey's book on
>>>guerillas throughout history, he identifies that many officers, cut off
>>>by the surprise, formed guerilla units and were aided and in part supplied
>>>by Filipino natives on Luzon.
>
>sounds like an interesting book!! Could you please furnish the full title.
>
>     Thanks,
>          Mike Oaks
>     [email-masked]

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

American Legion, Post 102
I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 10:12:13 -0500
From:    Andrew D Field <[email-masked]>
Subject: Shanghai shore leave

Does anybody know how I might get in contact with WWII veterans who spent
time in Shanghai before or during the war?  I'd like to know what they
did during shore leave.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 10:21:45 -0500
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MOVIE: Battle of the Bulge

Bill Shade <[email-masked]> asks:
> Just a question from someone who hasn't spent a lot of time on WWII movies-
> What are considered to be the "best" movies out of Hollywood?

        Titles that immediately come to mind are:

        "Kelly's Heroes". This should come as no surprise to those who know
me that I would pick this one.  A "not-quite-black" comedy of a US squad
robbing a bank behind German lines.  It doesn't cover any particular action
but the producers went to great lengths to make the movie authentic.  Plus
it is hilarious.

        "The Bridge at Remagen".  Some heavy-handed acting from Ben Gazarro
(sp?) and Burt Lancaster don't hurt this movie that much.  The performance
given by Robert Vaughn is first rate.  The producers took a few liberties
for dramatic effect but the overall history is correct.  Seeing M24s dueling
with 88s in the opening scenes appealed to me as well.

        "A Midnight Clear'.  Another quirky story of a GI squad's encounter
with a German squad.

        "Tora, Tora, Tora".  'Nuff said!

        "Cross of Iron".  I only saw this movie once many years ago but
I remember it with fondness.

        I haven't seen "Stalingrad", but I've only heard good things
about it.  Does anyone know if this movie is available on video?
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
Woof woof WOOF! That's my other dog impression.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:29:04 CCS
From:    Jorge Merino <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USS Ward (DD-139)

> Ward, DD 139, was one of the famous WW I DDs.  She was part of the first
> big group DD 75-185, usually known as the Wickes class.  "Four stackers"
> or "four pipers".

Just a curious question: How were destroyers born? I understand that they
were born by WWI time, but which kind of ship were they replacing? (i.e.
monitors?) Which were the first destroyers/classes and their intended role?

> USS Ward (DD 139) was a flush-deck destroyer, Wickes class.

Does anyone of you know if all the surviving WWI destroyers were still
active during WWII? Did they receive any important modernization/redesign
(like the tripod masts on WWI BBs)?

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:03:10 EST
From:    Roger Coon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MOVIE: Battle of the Bulge

To Joe's list I would add the great Otto Preminger/John Wayne
classic, "In Harm's Way", now almost forgotten as it was one of the
last black and white epics and also, Hell is for Heroes.
Just my 2 cents,
Brad Coon

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 10:14:35 -0600
From:    Drew Halevy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MOVIE: Battle of the Bulge

If I had to pick a film on the basis of story, acting and authenticity, I
would have to choose Das Boot as one of the best war films. I have it on
video in German, and it is an excellent movie-Drew

Drew Philip Halevy      |
Grad Student            | Go tell the Spartans, thou who passest by,
Department of History   | That here obedient to their laws we lie.
University of Arkansas  |    Simonides c. 556-468 b.c.
[email-masked]   |

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 10:32:29 -0600
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Great World War II movies.

The old film about the Battle of the Bulge, starring Van
  Johnson, is considered one of the two or three best war
  flicks by Don Daudelin, a Western Illinois Univ. staff
  member who is compiling a book on war films.

The old film "Attack!", starring Jack Palance and Eddie
  Albert is riveting.

"Thin Red Line"(?), starring Jack W? and Keir Dullea is a
  gritty depiction of South Pacific combat against the
  Japanese.

The most unforgettable foreign film I have seen is "The
  Ballad of the Soldier," about a young Soviet rifleman's
  anti-tank heroism and then rear-echelon adventures to
  get home on leave to see his mother.

Lou Coatney, [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:44:17 -0500
From:    "Douglas S. Bohannon" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USS Ward (DD-139)

1. Which class did USS Ward belong to?

According to Janes Fighting Ships of WWII, the USS Ward DD-139 was a Flush
Deck Type, 5th Group. It was one of 7 ships. Laid down on 15/5/18, Launched
1/6/18, Completed 24/7/18. It displaced 1060 tons.

There was also a high-speed transport Ward (APD-16) which was damaged by
suicide plane on 07DEC44 by Japanese suicide plane and sunk by US forces.
United States Naval Chronology World War II.

2. How many Fletcher (DD-445) class destroyers were ordered/built?

According to Seekrieg game rules 175 Fletcher class destroyers were built.

According to Janes Fighting Ships of WWII there were 98 Fletcher Class
destroyers built and 53 Improved Fletcher Class destroyers built for a total
for 151 ships.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 10:58:49 -0600
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Paul H. Silverstone

Paul,

     You didn't leave a direct, e-mail return address, so:

     Are you *the* Paul H. Silverstone, who authored/compiled
U.S. WARSHIPS OF WORLD WAR II, the exhaustive little handbook
that is running for upwards of $40 in the out-of-print catalogs,
now?

     On the inside cover, I notice that you have been a member
of the Belgian Nautical Research Association.  I didn't think
the Belgians were/are that naval ... or even nautical.

Lou Coatney, [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:10:17 CST
From:    "SCHERRER, TIM" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: MOVIE: Battle of the Bulge

I got two more to add to the growing list---"A Walk in the Sun" and
"Soldier of Orange".  Well--let's make it an even four with "The Longest
Day" and "A Bridge Too Far."

Oh yeah--can;t forget "Surf Nazi's Must Die", "Ilsa, She Devil of the
SS" and the classic "THEY SAVED HITLER'S BRAIN!!!!"

TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 10:47:00 -0600
From:    George Bauer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Warbirds In Liechtenstein

I realize this request is somewhat off the subject of the list,
but I request your indulgence:

Does anybody know the name and address of an Aviation Museum in
Liechtenstein?  If anybody knows anything about this, please
reply privately to

[email-masked]

I'm gone . . .  quickly . . .

 * RoboBOARD/FX 1.04

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 12:53:33 EST
From:    Jonathan Perkins <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW2 Rifles

        Those interested in Moisin-Nagant variants would do well to look
at the Finnish-produced or modified rifles.  These rifles can usually be
found in NRA Very Good or Excellent condition, and are (at least IMHO)
much nicer overall than the basic jetsam and flotsam coming out of the
old Soviet arsenals.  The Finnish M24 and M27 variants are equipped with
a slightly heavier barrel than the Russian long rifles, have very nice
stocks, and come as fully matched rifles (right down to the cleaning rod).
Receivers vary between the orginal M-N octagonal design, and the more
contemporary rounded receiver (produced closer to WWII).

        As an aside to the earlier discussion on sight variations on Lee
Enfields, it is of note that some of the sights on the older Russian
M-N rifles are graduated in an old Czarist unit of measure (can't remember
the formal name off the top of my head, however) that differs from both
yards and metres (I believe it is smaller than either).  This sometimes
leads to confusion when the rifle won't pattern as expected at the
corresponding range in yards/metres.

        Another WWII-era rifle that is readily available in quite good
condition is the French MAS 36 and the later MAS 36/52.  Both are bolt-
actions of a unique (and to some, quite ugly) design.  The bolt lugs are
toward the rear of the bolt body (something similar to the Lee Enfield in
conception if not execution), which necessitates a forward-swept bolt
handle to place the bolt knob near the firer's hand.  The rifle features
a standard 5-rd magazine and two-piece stock.  For added interest, the
MAS 36/52 features an integral grenade launching unit and sight.  The MAS
36 rifles are usually found in Very Good to Excellent condition for about
US $100, while the MAS 36/52 is available in New (some Arsenal Refinished)
condition for just slightly more.  The round is the 7.5 x 55 French, which
could be obtained at one point from Privi Partizan in the former Yugoslavia
(just guess what this ammo is being used for now...).

        Lest the MAS rifles be dismissed out of hand (I know, the old joke is
running through your head: Why are surplus French military rifles in such
good condition?  Because they've never been fired and only dropped
once...), it is worth noting that the current French sniper rifle, the MAS
F1, is built around the basic MAS 36 action.  These rifles CAN be quite
accurate, though I have found that the small rear aperature sight is not
properly regulated for the ranges marked, necessitating either some
judicious filing of the front sight or a bit of aiming off.

        Finally, some of the most beautiful Mausers you'll ever see (quite
a few of them better than anything--save a custom rifle--available on the
sporting market today) are being brought in as surplus.  The Swedish rifles,
the M94 carbine, the M96 standard rifles (29" barrel) and the M38 (WW2
production with 24" barrel) are often in excellent condition and fire a
wonderful round in the form of the Mauser 6.5x55mm.  The Argentianian
M1909 (based on the Mauser M98 action with 29" barrels) rifles and the
accompanying carbine variants in 7.65 Mauser are also to be found in
incredible shape, and 7.65 Mauser round is available in surplus lots from
post-WWII FN-Herstal production.  A number of variants firing the 7x57mm
Mauser round (one my absolute favourites, along with the 6.5x55mm) are
also available, including rifles based on the M98 and M95 actions.  Again,
surplus FN-Herstal 7mm ammunition is readily available, as is commercial
ammunition if need be.

        Short story is that many of these rifles are just too good a value
to pass up.  If anyone is interested in starting to collect these rifles,
I would highly recommend picking up one or more of the standard reference
works on the various rifle designs--they make for fascinating reading, and
form an interesting adjunct to the generic descriptions of the small arms
in use by various forces of the period.

        Cheers.....

P.S.--I'll post a short list of standard references later if anyone's
interested--didn't have them handy when making this post.

--
----------
Jon Perkins--Ottawa, Canada
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 13:36:10 EST
From:    "Dennis E. Sparks" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Opinions wanted on book

Has anyone on the list read the book "Japan's Secret War", by
Robert F. Wilcox (ISBN 0-688-04188-4, published by William Morrow
and Company, 1985)?  It purports to tell the story of Japan's
efforts to develop an atomic bomb, with the bulk of the work
being done in what is now North Korea.  I'd be interested in
opinions on the book's accuracy.

Dennis E. Sparks
[email-masked]
Lexington, Kentucky

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 13:57:14 -0500
From:    "Matthew R. Burchette" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Medals and Awards

Doug,

The militaria that you speak of may not end up in the garbage can NOW but it
may later on. The next owner may will it to a relative whose interest in the
subject may not be as intense as the original collectors. The collection
could then be seen as junk and a waste of valuable closet space. Where does
it go then? The mind races at this thought.

What about the ravages of time, UV light, acid migration, humidity and
temperature fluctuation, and insect damage? Not all collectors are well
versed in conservation techniques and some of their collections could be
disappearing before their very eyes. A museum is the only place where these
collections can get the proper care. Example, a gentlemen in Dallas owns Gen.
Armstrong Custer's dress uniform, presentation sword, dress hat, and some
other items, all well documented. These items are in the man's house and not
on display for the general public to view. A travesty if you ask me.

My ardent wish is that all collectors would think long and hard about giving
their collections to a museum that can care for them, store them, and display
them like they should be. The public should have a chance to see what is
"behind closed doors" and collectors have many things that the public is
being denied a chance to view.

The next thought in your mind is: "But museums just keep most of their stuff
in the back in a closet!" Yes we do have 90% of our artifacts in storage. The
artifacts on display are rotated though and new artifacts are brought from
storage to replace those that have been on display. In this way the public is
allowed to see more of the collections and the artifacts themselves are
allowed to "rest" from the rigors of display.

The museums are the only places that an artifact has a fighting chance to
survive for an extended period of time. Give these places a chance to keep
our history alive for as long as possible.

My humble opinion,

Matthew Burchette
Graduate Student, Museum Studies
Baylor University

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:22:53 -0500
From:    Carlos R Rivera <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Belgians

>      On the inside cover, I notice that you have been a member
> of the Belgian Nautical Research Association.  I didn't think
> the Belgians were/are that naval ... or even nautical.
>
----There is a great, okay, in my opinion, journal no longer in print, "The
Belgian Shiplover."  It ran for about 15 years and featured some wonderful
articles in English.
CRivera

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:25:21 -0800
From:    Patrick Charles <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MOVIE: Battle of the Bulge

        I have to go with "A Bridge Too Far" and "The Great Escape" as
two of the best World War II movies.  Some of the British WWII era
propaganda movies are also very good.  They are much better than the U.S.
propaganda movies.

Patrick Charles
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:31:20 -0500
From:    David Rising <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MOVIE: Battle of the Bulge

On Thu, 30 Mar 1995, Barone wrote:

>         I haven't seen "Stalingrad", but I've only heard good things
> about it.  Does anyone know if this movie is available on video?

Joe, I've seen it up in Canada (Toronto) and Sidney says he's rented it in
Vancouver, but I have yet to find anyone in a video store here in Boston
who knows what I'm talking about (and not for want of trying).
Unfortunately, I only saw copies for rent in Canada, not to buy, or I
wouldn't be looking now too. BTW, saw the movie in the theatre (also in
Canada) when it was released and loved it (thus my present pursuit of it).
Cheers, David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:44:29 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USS Ward (DD-139)

At 3:29 AM 3/30/95, Jorge Merino wrote:
>> Ward, DD 139, was one of the famous WW I DDs.  She was part of the first
>> big group DD 75-185, usually known as the Wickes class.  "Four stackers"
>> or "four pipers".
>
>Just a curious question: How were destroyers born? I understand that they
>were born by WWI time, but which kind of ship were they replacing? (i.e.
>monitors?) Which were the first destroyers/classes and their intended role?
>

There are lots of experts who will give you the straight scoop, but my
understanding is that they were originally "Torpedo boat Destroyers."  The
idea was that they would protect the ships of the line against small
Torpedo boats, so I don't think they were replacing any other class.

>> USS Ward (DD 139) was a flush-deck destroyer, Wickes class.
>
>Does anyone of you know if all the surviving WWI destroyers were still
>active during WWII? Did they receive any important modernization/redesign
>(like the tripod masts on WWI BBs)?

Well we gave lots of them to Great Britain in Lend-Lease.

John Riegsecker                                 (206) 756-3566
Dept of Mathematics and Computer Science        [email-masked]
University of Puget Sound

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 13:42:09 -0600
From:    "Jordan J. Gardner" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 09:15:44 CST
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <Mailer-Daemon@ozarks>
To: jgardn01@ozarks
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Connected to mace.cc.purdue.edu:
>>> RCPT To:<[email-masked]>
<<< 550 <[email-masked]>... User unknown
550 WWII <[email-masked]>... User unknown

   ----- Unsent message follows -----
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 09:15:44 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jordan J. Gardner" <jgardn01@ozarks>
Subject: U.S.S. JUNEAU
To: WWII <[email-masked]>

Mr. Jewell,
Is there anyone on any BB or system that you know of that is specifically
interested in the above subject?? JUNEAU (CL-52) was a anti-aircraft
light cruiser..crew approx 700..sunk on friday 13, November 1942 during
battle of Guadalcanal..close to 200 survived the sinking but only
ten(10) lived..my father was one of them..also on board was the five
Sullivan brothers from Waterloo, Iowa...my father passed away in 1984
chasing a cow that had gotten out of the field..a couple of weeks ago Mr.
Art Friend also one of those that lived died in Miller, MO..that leaves
three(3) that remain alive at this time..Mr. Dan Kurzman has written a
book about the ship "Left to Die", although it leaves out a lot of
information and his research people didn't (in my opinion) do a very good
job it is still an interesting narrative...at present the next re-union
is scheduled for San Antonio, Texas...since there are so few survivors
JUNEAU has been assimilated? with her sister ship U.S.S ATLANTA (CL-51)
for reunions.ATLANTA was scuttled by her crew to prevent being captured
by the enemy...
Thanks,
Sincerely,
J.J.GARDNER

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:51:04 -0500
From:    David Rising <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MOVIE: Battle of the Bulge

On Thu, 30 Mar 1995, Drew Halevy wrote:

> If I had to pick a film on the basis of story, acting and authenticity, I
> would have to choose Das Boot as one of the best war films. I have it on
> video in German, and it is an excellent movie-Drew

Same people made Stalingrad BTW. Cheers,
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:57:40 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MOVIE: Battle of the Bulge

Decision Before Dawn
The Counterfeit Traitor
A Walk in the Sun
The Bridge on the Kwai
Halls of Montezuma
Run Silent, Run Deep

and, of course,

Kiss Them for Me.

And to expand the question a bit, what are the choices for favorite
_fictional_ character of the war, movies or books. My choice is
Sgt. Guy Perron, British Army Field Intelligence, of Paul Scott's               The Raj Quartet. He was played by Charles Dance on TV in The Jewel              in the Crown. Quiet, very competent, he understands both the horror
of war and the need for it in these circumstances, and that the
fastest way back to civilian life is victory at least cost. He knew
his abilities and his limitations and capitalized on that knowledge
as a hero without theatrics. The perfect citizen-soldier.

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 15:02:42 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Opinions wanted on book

Dear Dennis,

John Taylor, head of the Modern Military Branch of the National Archives,
once noted that Wilcox' NA references were indeed interesting, "as
nobody else has been able to find those documents." Enough said.

Regards,

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:49:39 EST
From:    "SGM Robert S. Rush" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MOVIE: Best (Was Battle of the Bulge)

I really found _Cross of Iron_ (Germans on the Kuban Peninsula) and
_Big Red One_ (follows a squad of the 1ID through the war) as two
of the best for small unit level.

Rob Rush
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 15:08:04 EST
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Great World War II movies.

_The Enemy Below_ -R.Mitchem,... Destroyer .vs. Submarine

The scenario has been played out in other dramatic ways, as on StarTrek
when Kirk takes on the Romulans who have a phase plasma weapon that pulverizes
planets. They must de-cloak before firing and that is their desmise, that
and the fact that the weapon has,... limited range!

bye

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

American Legion, Post 102
I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 15:34:42 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: WW2 movies

        I second the nominations for "Das Boot" and "Cross of Iron"  (the
latter was Peckinpah's last movie, I believe, and tried to be the "All Quiet On
The Western Front" of WW2-- some forced dialogue and a few bad German accents,
but a real good job of conveying the look of the eastern front (north Caucasus)
thanks to the former Yugoslavia's stocks of vintage equipment-- too bad they
had to use SKS' instead of Mosin-Nagants, though-- there is one Mosin sniper
rifle-- also exploding rounds from a PTRS antitank rifle, but a lot closer in
look and feel than many WW2 efforts.  I'll excuse T34/85's in early '43, can't
get too picky).  Gotta disagree with Lou Coatney on "Thin
Red Line," though-- not nearly as gritty and realistic as the book.  But then,
I turned it off after the scene (definitely not in the book) where the GI's
push the jeep full of explosives down the hill at the Japanese.  Lou's other
suggestion, the Soviet "Ballad of A Soldier," is a real classic.
        Okay, enough playing film critic, here's a few of my own additions.

        "Come and See" (Belarus-- tale of a teen-age partisan who survives
                a horrific village massacre)
        "The Go Masters" (Chinese/Japanese joint production)
        "Attack And Retreat" (Italian-- realistic presentation of Italians
                on the Russian front)

        I'm sure I'll think of more

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 15:40:01 EST
From:    Roger Coon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Great World War II movies.

Lou mentioned the Battle of the Bulge movie with Van Johnson, I believe
that was Battle Line and yes, I loved that one too.
Brad Coon

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 15:51:50 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: WW2 movies

        Two (IMHO) glaring omissions:

        "The Longest Day"
        "Patton"
        "Europa, Europa" (Jewish kid joins the Wehrmacht to survive)
        "Soldier of Orange" (Dutch resistance hero played by Rutger Hauer)
        also, "The Big Red One" had its moments

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 15:10:26 -0600
From:    Drew Halevy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW2 movies

This might be a little off, but one very good movie I saw about growing
up during the war was "Hope and Glory", which told the  story of the
blitz through the eyes of a young boy. Quite good-Drew

Drew Philip Halevy      |
Grad Student            | Go tell the Spartans, thou who passest by,
Department of History   | That here obedient to their laws we lie.
University of Arkansas  |    Simonides c. 556-468 b.c.
[email-masked]   |

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 16:34:56 EST
From:    Kurt Luginbyhl <[email-masked]>
Subject: <No subject given>

I liked Battleground with a good cast Whitmore, Van Johnson, Ricardo
Montalban(sp?) (rich Corinthian leather)  also D-day with everybody in it
and many others some have already named.    Cheer O!

H. A. Kurt Luginbyhl
Scientific Computing                      202-357-1955_Office
National Museum of Natural History        202-357-4122_Fax
Washington D.C. 20560                   "Rast Ich, So Rost Ich"

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 16:42:37 EST
From:    Kurt Luginbyhl <[email-masked]>
Subject: <No subject given>

Lou the movie with Van Johnson and about the Bulge is Battleground.

I also liked The Big Red One.  Although the highlight was Lee Marvin's
acting? or just being himself.  Lee is buried at Arlington National
Cemeterynot very far from Joe Louis.

H. A. Kurt Luginbyhl
Scientific Computing                      202-357-1955_Office
National Museum of Natural History        202-357-4122_Fax
Washington D.C. 20560                   "Rast Ich, So Rost Ich"

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 18:56:42 -0500
From:    Ron Charlton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Great World War II movies.

Maybe not the best but IMHO some of the better WWII movies:

Wake Island (1942) Brian Donlevy,  Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo (1944) Spencer
Tracey,
Sahara (1943) Humphrey Bogart,  They Were Expendable (1945) John Wayne,
 Sands of     Iwo Jima (1949) John Wayne,  Battleground (1949) Van Johnson,
 The Desert Fox (1951)     James Mason,  Twelve O'Clock High (1950) Gregory
Peck,  The Dam Busters (1954)           Richard Todd, The Enemy Below (1957)
Robert Mitchum & Curt Jurgens,  The Bridge on the River Kwai (1957) William
Holden and Alec Guiness - Best Picture 1957, The Guns of the Navarone (1961)
Gregory Peck,  The Longest Day (1963) John Wayne et al, The Great Escape
(1963) Steve McQueen, Is Paris Burning? (1966) Kirk Douglas,  The Dirty Dozen
(1967) Lee Marvin,  A Bridge Too Far (1977), Das Boot (1981), Memphis Belle
(1990) Matthew Modine.

All of these are worth seeing. WWII movies --- I luv em!

Ron Charlton   [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 17:21:31 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Great World War II movies.

Best of the war movies...

        How could I miss also mentioning:

                ALL QUIET ON THE WESERN FRONT

                SANDS OF IWO JIMA

                THE WAY AHEAD

--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 17:51:34 -0700
From:    Bill Stevens <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Great World War II movies.

Hi,
This is my first post.  I'd like to put in my vote for The Battle of
Britain.  Nice British Aircraft and some so so German models.  Nice sound
if you can run it through a stereo VCR!
Bye..
Bill

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 20:34:50 EST
From:    Richard Kaplan <[email-masked]>
Subject: WWII Movies

I'm glad we got the Battleground title right, it has been my favorite movie of
any type for many years.  I'm also a sucker for Sands of Iwo Jima, The Enemy
Below, and Sahara, despite its being woefully hokey.  My problem with the Big
Red One is the landscape; it didn't look accurate, and worse it looked almost
familiar.  Turns out I was right, much of it was filmed in Israel; and I don't
think the countryside passes for Europe.

My next tier of movies would have to include Das Boot, Cross of Iron, and
Twelve O'Clock High.

                                        Richard Kaplan
                                        Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh

P.S. Apropos of books for veterans of specific
     units, my parents still have dad's copy of
     Impact, the book of the 10th Armored Division.
     We also have a magazine type booklet given to
     members of the XX Corps.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 23:55:26 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: SHANGHAI SHORE LEAVE

Anyone who spent shore leave in Shanghai during the war is known as a POW. Ben
Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 23:55:33 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: ACCIDENTAL KILLING OF

Lou, I rather doubt your story about a Marine officer executing another Marine
who fired an accidental discharge, that said discharge shot off another
Marine's arms. What is your source of this fairy tale? Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Mar 1995 23:55:38 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: V-J DAY OR V-P DAY

Regardless of the rigorous and wiggle rationales for changing the name of V-J
day to something else, it will always remain V-J Day, Victory over Japan Day,
because that is exactly what it was, and I don't much give a rat's ass who
takes exception to that. Ben Frank

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 29 Mar 1995 to 30 Mar 1995
*************************************************