Subject: WWII-L Digest - 12 Mar 1995 to 13 Mar 1995

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 00:02:07 -0500

There are 32 messages totalling 1119 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Seattle Area Pointers (2)
  2. MEDIA: Tokyo memorial service
  3. INF: USN Chronology 03-13-95
  4. Russia Enters the Pacific
  5. Accuracy and  "Victory at Sea"  (was- Re: Battle of the Bulge) (2)
  6. Machine-gunning survivor (2)
  7. USSR in the Pacific Theater (3)
  8. HIST: A strange American desertion (2)
  9. Eastern Front (2)
 10. Please name that gun (again)
 11. Obersalzberg con't (2)
 12. TACT: Invasion of Attu
 13. MILO SEARCH RESULTS
 14. Re  Please name that gun
 15. David Glantz's books, re: Manchuria '45, etc.
 16. P-38F armament
 17. INF: 50 Years Ago - 14-MAR-1945
 18. Tin Can Sailor
 19. Accuracy and "Victory at Sea" (was- Re: Battle of the Bulge)
 20. [INF] USAAF 14 MAR 45
 21. Dudley Morton
 22. War crimes
 23. Mush Morton (2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 00:07:13 -0600
From:    Bill Smith <[email-masked]>
Subject: Seattle Area Pointers

Need some quick help.  I'm headed to Seattle for business this week on
short notice so I haven't had a chance to look into this for myself.

I've read the posts about Bremerton -- what's there to see and how do I
go about seeing it.

I know the Museum of Flight is a must see, but what else in the immediate
area would strike the fancy of a list member.

Any esoteric base museums (i.e., like the USAF ordinance museum at Ft.
Walton Beach/Eglin AFB)?

Leaving by Tuesday noon, so quick replies are very welcome.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 07:09:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Tokyo memorial service

 >>From Associated Press, today's Arkansas Democrat-Gazette:
 >
 >        "The flames destroyed so much that no accurate death toll was
 >ever complied.  Estimates run from 83,000 to 197,000, but 100,00 is the
 >most frequently used figure.
 >        "The only worse attack was the U.S. atomic bombing of Hiroshima,
 >which is estimated to have killed 140,000 people."
 >
 >Several questions here -- first, I don't recall seeing estimates over
 >100,000 for the Tokyo raid.  Where does that high number come from?
 >
 >Second, I can only assume that 140,000 for Hiroshima is some sort of
 >aggregate that includes deaths months/years later from radiation related
 >illness.  I cannot recall ever seeing a death toll for Hiroshima over
 >100,000 that included only deaths directly related to the explosion.
 >
 >In other words, I have always, and until someone more authoritative than
 >the Associated Press will continue, to maintain the Tokyo raid as the
 >most destructive single bombing mission of the war.

The official Japanese total made after the bombing was 83,793 killed
and 40,918 wounded.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 04:00:17 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 03-13-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
03/13 Tue.  Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             Coast defense vessel NO. 66, by Army aircraft,
              South China Sea,
              23 d. 30'N., 117 d. 10'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 09:29:40 EST
From:    Roger Coon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Russia Enters the Pacific

Joseph,
        Several accounts that I have read have agreed that the
Soviet offensive in the east was extremely successful, conquering
a larger chunk of land than any other attack in the war.  I believe
that their attacks were centered against Manchuria (Manchukuo).
Brad Coon

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 09:27:18 EST
From:    Roger Coon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Accuracy and  "Victory at Sea"  (was- Re: Battle of the Bulge)

Henry,
        I believe I have seen the film segment that you mentioned and
I think it was the HMS Barham.  I should warn you that I am dealing
from my fuzzy and aging memory here.
Brad Coon

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 10:07:16 -0500
From:    Sean Barnett <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Machine-gunning survivor

        Reply to:   RE>Machine-gunning survivors in the water:  War crime?

--------------------------------------
Date: 3/13/95 9:00 AM
To: Sean Barnett
From: World War II Discussion List
Does anyone else on the list know if shooting a bailed-out
  pilot in his chute over *his* territory is actually a war
  crime.  Why should he be allowed to live again to fly
  the very next day -- with the benefit of having learned
  from his previous day's mistake?

(In the "Fighter Aces of World War II" video, an elderly
  American vet -- looking like a warm, grandfatherly
  country doctor, rather than any trained aerial killer --
  quietly described an episode where he found a German
  pilot murdering American bomber crewmen in their parachutes,
  after they had bailed out over Germany.  He cornered the
  German fighter, but damaged it gradually, until *its*
  pilot had to bail out.  He then executed the pilot in
  *his* chute ... remorselessly.)

During the 1992 election, there was talk on Internet that
  George Bush could be accused of machine-gunning Japanese
  survivors during the war, but the issue was never used,
  and the Vietnam issue was never used as it could have been
  against Bill Clinton ... in return?

Lou Coatney, Historian at Large
  [email-masked]

I have heard a story that Allied fighter pilots, knowing that German jet
pilots were aces, shot at them in their parachutes to prevent them from
flying more missions in their jets.  Does anyone out there know if this is
true?

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 07:22:22 -0800
From:    Sonnenschein Nath and Rosenthal <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USSR in the Pacific Theater

        This discussion has reminded me of an interesting question posed
at a conference a few years ago...

        What role did the Soviet declaration of war against Japan play in
the decision to surrender, if any? Was the Emperor aware of the fate of
Germany after allied victory and Soviet occupation? Did the Japanese feel
humilating defeat was better in the short term than potential long-term
Soviet occupation? Or was the Soviet decision expected and thus of no
real surprise or factor? Any thoughts?

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 10:36:26 -0500
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: HIST: A strange American desertion

In reading William L. Combs, THE VOICE OF THE SS: A HISTORY OF THE SS JOURNAL
"DAS SCHWARZE KORPS" [Peter Lang, 1986], I came across the bizarre story of
Martin James Monti, native of Florrisant MO, who left post in Karachi in
October 1944 and hitched plane rides to Italy where he stole a P-38
photo-recon plane. He flew to German-occupied territory and gave himself
up. He allegedly then cooperated with the Germans and under the alias of
"Cpt. Martin Wiethaupt" prepared some radio commentaries later broadcast to
American troops. "Supposedly, Monti had acquired SS credentials by the end of
the war when he surrendered at US Fifth Army headquarters in Milan" [p.414].

There's a bit more to this weird tale. Will post if anyone is interested.

-- Warren Thompson

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 11:01:00 -0500
From:    Allen Witt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Eastern Front

Hello,

I'm interested in reading about Russian operations on the eastern
european front and am looking for sources. What do you folks
recommend?

The time frame is from the invasion/occupation of Poland to VE day.

Allen Witt
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 07:58:03 -0800
From:    Patrick Charles <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Seattle Area Pointers

Bill,

        Fort Lewis is south of Seattle, a little past Tacoma.  It is an
extremely large Army base and it has a museum.  McChord Air Force base is
also nearby.  Have fun.

Patrick Charles
[email-masked]

On Mon, 13 Mar 1995, Bill Smith wrote:

> Need some quick help.  I'm headed to Seattle for business this week on
> short notice so I haven't had a chance to look into this for myself.
>
> I've read the posts about Bremerton -- what's there to see and how do I
> go about seeing it.
>
> I know the Museum of Flight is a must see, but what else in the immediate
> area would strike the fancy of a list member.
>
> Any esoteric base museums (i.e., like the USAF ordinance museum at Ft.
> Walton Beach/Eglin AFB)?
>
> Leaving by Tuesday noon, so quick replies are very welcome.
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 17:32:14 +0200
From:    Erik Scheuermann <[email-masked]>
Subject: Please name that gun (again)

Hi,

A few days ago I watched a Tv program on the invasion of Russia. It also
included original clips from the siege of Sevastopol. It was mentioned that
Sevastopol saw some of the largest and probably strangest siege guns,
including the here already mentioned Gustav Geraet (absolutely impressive
to see this thing fire, although the cut at this scene was absolutel crap.).
Apart from this huge railgun they aso showed pictures of another gun I had
never seen or heard of before. It looked like an overdimesioned siege
mortar, with a relative short barrel (hard to judge from the pictures, but
from a close standing soldier I would say little more the 6m) and a huge
caliber. Unfortunately the gun was shw only for very short times, but I
also remember that it had THOR written on it in (pseudo-)runic letters.
Sorry I can not give more infos, but has anybody heard of such a gun, or
at least a book where I can look? Any help is appreciated, thanx a lot in
advance.

                                                So long

                                                        Erik

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 17:02:17 +0000
From:    Nechama Cox <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Machine-gunning survivor

>I have heard a story that Allied fighter pilots, knowing that German jet
>pilots were aces, shot at them in their parachutes to prevent them from
>flying more missions in their jets.  Does anyone out there know if this is
>true?

Something to consider is that towards the end of the war, the Germans were
running so low on fuel that they had to sharply cut back on training new
pilots, because they did not have the av gas to spare.  In light of this,
the fewer trained pilots that returned meant that there were fewer and
fewer competent pilots.

Just my $.02.

Nechama Cox
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 17:49:39 CET
From:    "COL Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Obersalzberg con't

Here we go with part two. . .

The Eagle's Nest

Perhaps one of the most interesting (and arguably the most famous) construction
project in the Obersalzberg complex was the "Eagle's Nest".  Built on the
summit of Kehlstein mountain, physically separated from the rest of the
Obersalzberg buildings, but still within the "Fueher area".  The Eagle's
Nest, or Tea House (the name Eagle's Nest was given by the occupying American
forces after the war) was an engineering marvel.

To construct it a four mile long road was blasted out of solid rock, with
many hairpin turns and small tunnels.  That led to a parking area from which
a tunnel was dug 150 feet into the mountain to a shaft rising 350 feet to
the top of the mountain.

The Tea House itself is not particularly large.  It consists of a dining room,
large tea room, study, kitchen, guard room , rest room, washrooms, and a
basement.  Most rooms are lined with pine or elm wood.

The Tea House was Bormann's idea and he used his influence to obtain Hitler's
approval for the project.  It is speculated that Bormann wanted to have a
location somewhat isolated from the main Obersalzberg complex, for private
meetings with Hitler, or to simply have a place where he could impress visitors.
He used it extensively.  Hitler only visited the Tea House five times.

Following the war the occupation forces intended to blow up the Tea House
along with most of the other Obersalzberg buildings, but intervention by
a Berchtesgaden official through to Bavarian government convinced the
Allies to leave it intact.

More to come. . .

                                   Doug

Doug Donnell
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 12:34:50 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USSR in the Pacific Theater

        To Joseph Feld:

        The Soviet declaration and commencement of hostilities definitely
occurred prior to the dropping of the Nagasaki bomb.  The Soviet radio
braodcast of the declaration was received in Japan in the early morning hours,
something like 3 am, the bomb was dropped on Nagasaki at 11:01 am local time.
As for the coincidence of the Soviet action and the American atomic bombings,
the Russian offensive in Manchuria and Korea was a massive effort requiring
weeks of build-up, including the wholesale transfer of units from the European
areas of Russia over some 3,000 miles of railroad.  A mere glance at the Soviet
order of battle for this operation, and the logistics required to support it,
renders ludicrous any implied assumption that the Soviet offensive was a direct
reaction to the American use of the atomic bomb (at least in the short-term
sense).  Whatever his motivations, Stalin was in fact honoring his commitment
exactly as specified at Yalta.

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 13:05:22 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TACT: Invasion of Attu

        To Steve New:

        Thanks for supplementing what you correctly described as a broad-brush
work with a much more detailed account of Attu-Kiska.  Just to correct an
impression I might have inadvertantly created in my two-sentence treatment of
Attu, two points:
        1. I believe I did allude to the successful Japanese delaying tactics
in sentence #1 of my post relative to Attu.
        2. I only cited the final charge of the Japanese there in the "bamboo
spear" because it seemed so appropriate in a physical sense-- I mean,
conceptually there ain't much difference between a spear and an empty,
bayoneted rifle.  My fault for tying it into a phrase I had used in a critical
sense throughout my many posts.  I agree with your analysis of the action.

        Thanks again for both reading through and responding.  I'm getting to
fill in all kinds of small information blanks just by reading the responses to
these posts.

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 13:15:01 -0500
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: MILO SEARCH RESULTS

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 03/13/95 12:06:11  ILLINET Online search data      library: All Libraries

 Author Search: SUDOPLATOV,  sorted by Title
 All languages All material types All dates

  AUTHOR:     Sudoplatov, Pavel.
  TITLE:      Special tasks : the memoirs of an unwanted witness, a Soviet
                 spymaster / Pavel Sudoplatov and Anatoli Sudoplatov with
                 Jerrold L. and Leona P. Schecter ; foreword by Robert
                 Conquest.
  EDITION:    1st ed.
  PUBL.:      Boston : Little, Brown,
  FORMAT:     xxiii, 509 p. : ill. ; 25 cm.
  DATE:       1994
  OTHER NAME: Schecter, Jerrold L.
              Schecter, Leona.
              Conquest, Robert.
              Sudoplatov, Anatolii Pavlovich.

  SUBJECT:    Sudoplatov, Pavel.
              Soviet Union. Komitet gosudarstvennoi bezopasnosti--Officials
                 and employees--Biography.
              Intelligence officers--Soviet Union--Biography.
              Intelligence service--Soviet Union--Biography.
              Spies--Soviet Union--Biography.
              Espionage, Soviet--History--20th century.

  ISBN:       0316773522 :
  LANGUAGE:   ENGLISH
  CONTENTS:   Includes bibliographical references and index.
  RID #:      ocm30325282      (This is not a call number)

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 12:16:32 PST
From:    "Mark H. Walter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re  Please name that gun

>A few days ago I watched a Tv program on the invasion of Russia. It also
>included original clips from the siege of Sevastopol. It was mentioned that
>Sevastopol saw some of the largest and probably strangest siege guns,
>including the here already mentioned Gustav Geraet (absolutely impressive
>to see this thing fire, although the cut at this scene was absolutel crap.).
>Apart from this huge railgun they aso showed pictures of another gun I had
>never seen or heard of before. It looked like an overdimesioned siege
>mortar, with a relative short barrel (hard to judge from the pictures, but
>from a close standing soldier I would say little more the 6m) and a huge
>caliber. Unfortunately the gun was shw only for very short times, but I
>also remember that it had THOR written on it in (pseudo-)runic letters.
>Sorry I can not give more infos, but has anybody heard of such a gun, or
>at least a book where I can look? Any help is appreciated, thanx a lot in
>advance.
>
>                                               So long
>
>                                                       Erik

This is the Morser Geraet 040, sometimes it's called the Karl Morser.
It's a 60cm self propelled siege mortar. Normally it was slung between 2
special rail cars for long distance transportation.  Modified Panzer IVs
were used as ammunition carriers, each carrier could only carry 3 or 4
(I think) of the 60cm shells.  A total of 6 were built and most were used
in the east.  Most Encyclopedia type books on German armour should have an
entry on it.  One that I have is by Chamberlin.  I think the title is
(the book is a home)  Encyclopedia of German Tanks.  Mail me if you need
more info, I can look it up a home.

                     Mark Walter    [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 15:10:14 -0500
From:    Ira Krakow <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Obersalzberg con't

> Here we go with part two. . .
>
> The Eagle's Nest
>
> Perhaps one of the most interesting (and arguably the most famous) construction
> project in the Obersalzberg complex was the "Eagle's Nest".  Built on the
> summit of Kehlstein mountain, physically separated from the rest of the
> Obersalzberg buildings, but still within the "Fueher area".  The Eagle's
> Nest, or Tea House (the name Eagle's Nest was given by the occupying American
> forces after the war) was an engineering marvel.
>

  I've heard of something called the "Wolfschanze" (Wolf's Lair).
Is that at Obersalzberg or is it in East Prussia?  Can it be visited?
What did Hitler do there?

Ira

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 14:40:11 -0600
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <[email-masked]>
Subject: David Glantz's books, re: Manchuria '45, etc.

David Glantz came out with a couple of excellent analyses of the
  Soviet Manchurian operation.  He is probably the leading authority
  in the West, now, on Soviet WWII operations.

Lou Coatney, [email-masked]

>  03/13/95 12:09:36  ILLINET Online search data      library: All Libraries
>
>  Author Search: GLANTZ, DAVID  sorted by Title
>  All languages All material types All dates
>
>
>    1. TITLE:  August storm : Soviet tactical and operational combat in
>                Manchuria, 1945 /                                          1983
>      AUTHOR:  Glantz, David M.

>    2. TITLE:  August storm : the Soviet 1945 strategic offensive in Manchuria
>                /                                                          1983
>      AUTHOR:  Glantz, David M.

>    3. TITLE:  From the Don to the Dnepr : Soviet offensive operations,
>                December 1942 - August 1943 /                              1991
>      AUTHOR:  Glantz, David M.

>    4. TITLE:  The history of Soviet airborne forces /
>                                                                           1993
>      AUTHOR:  Glantz, David M.

>    5. TITLE:  The initial period of war on the Eastern Front, 22 June-August
>                1941 : proceedings of the Fourth Art of War Symposium,     1992
>      AUTHOR:  Art of War Symposium 1987 : Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Germany)

>    6. TITLE:  The military strategy of the Soviet Union : a history /
>                                                                           1992
>      AUTHOR:  Glantz, David M.

>    7. TITLE:  The role of intelligence in Soviet military strategy in World
>                War II /                                                   1990
>      AUTHOR:  Glantz, David M.

>    8. TITLE:  The Soviet airborne experience /
>                                                                           1985
>      AUTHOR:  Glantz, David M.

>    9. TITLE:  The Soviet conduct of tactical maneuver : spearhead of the
>                offensive /                                                1991
>      AUTHOR:  Glantz, David M.

>   10. TITLE:  Soviet military deception in the Second World War /
>                                                                           1988
>      AUTHOR:  Glantz, David M.

>   11. TITLE:  Soviet military intelligence in war /
>                                                                           1990
>      AUTHOR:  Glantz, David M.

>   12. TITLE:  Soviet military operational art : in pursuit of deep battle /
>                                                                           1991
>      AUTHOR:  Glantz, David M.

>   13. TITLE:  Soviet military strategy in the 1990s : alternative futures /
>                                                                           1991
>      AUTHOR:  Glantz, David M.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 16:28:19 EST
From:    "Dennis E. Sparks" <[email-masked]>
Subject: P-38F armament

>Dennis,

>I received the photos of the "Glacier Girl" today.  Many thanks!  I have a
>couple of questions that I thought I'd share with the rest of the group.  I
>know I must be starting to become a nuisance on your mailbox.

>I was intrigued to see in one of the photos several M2HB, .50 caliber
>machine guns ("Ma Deuces" we called them in the modern army.  I don't know
>if this nickname was used in WWII.) in the nose cradles.  Does anyone know
>how the restoration team would have acquired these pieces of hardware?
>Don't worry anyone, I'm asking out of curiosity only.  I don't actually
>want one (though I *do* have this one neighbor who drives me absolutely
>nuts...).

>Also, can someone tell me what would have been the standard armament of a
>P-38F, as well as how it might have been configured for individual
>missions?

>Joseph Feld
>[email-masked]
>Ferndale, MI

Joe, et al,

I was told on several different occasions that the machine guns and the
cannon that are on display are the ones removed from the recovered
aircraft.  The guns and ammo were essentially the first things hauled
to the surface.  This was done for the safety of the crew working to
dismantle the aircraft.  I assume that there must have been a fair
amount of paperwork filed in order to allow the guns to remain with
the restored aircraft, but I didn't think to ask.

One of the technicians working on the restoration told me that the
four stainless steel ammo cans for the .50 cal m/g. were as recovered,
missing only a decal on the front of the can to indicate to the
armorer how to lay in the belts.  Enough of the decals remained to
allow him to draw how they looked, and new decals are being made.
He also indicated that the ammunition load carried on the "F" model
was 500 rounds for each of the four .50s.  He also said that this load
could be reduced by the simple expedient of placing a piece of plywood
in the bottom of the can first.  The 20mm cannon's ammunition was held
in the round drum on top of the cannon.  I don't recall exactly how many
rounds were carried, but it seems like it was around 75.

For the rest of you on the list who might be interested in seeing these
photos, Steve New has now received a set of them and is going to scan
them.  Hopefully a site will be found to store them.  Sorry, I don't
have the capability to scan or store them here.

Dennis E. Sparks
[email-masked]
Lexington, Kentucky

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 18:07:48 EST
From:    Henry Sirotin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USSR in the Pacific Theater

Dear Mike,

As everyone else, much impressed with your many posts on the Pacific.
One point though- while perhaps half the Soviet forces in the Manchurian
operation were local garrison units, those that weren't came at least
6000 miles, not 3000, from Central Europe. An entire Army Front,
plus wartime loads for the garrison forces, over single and double              track line, in 90 days. I would love to see the load and running
schedules. And this from an army that four years earlier often couldn't
organize a tank column without running it into a swamp.

Henry Sirotin

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 18:57:56 EST
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 14-MAR-1945

On 14-MAR-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the U.S. 1st Army sector, the VII Corps regroups in
preparation for action east of the Rhine. In the III Corps area, the
Germans shift the bulk of their artillery fire from the Rhine bridges to
the infantry, but continue frequent air attacks against the bridges,
employing many jet planes. In the 3rd Army sector, the XII Corps begins to
drive from the Moselle to the Rhine. Units of the XX Corps take Heddert,
Weiskirchen, Nieder Felle and Fell. The 7th Army completes preparations for
their West Wall offensive.

Philippines - The 6th Division continues to repel small counterattacks. All
enemy efforts to mount a concerted counterattack have proved unsuccessful
and costly. The 43rd Division begins a full-scale attack against the Shimbu
line. In the 8th Army sector, the 162nd Infantry begins a converging drive
on Mt. Capisan, Mindanao.

Iwo Jima - The VAC raises the American flag on Iwo Jima at 0930. The 3rd
and 4th Marine Divisions continue to mop-up and considerably reduce pockets
in their respective sectors. The 4th Marine Division begins re-embarkation.
The 5th Marine Division renews the assault on northern Iwo Jima and gains
up to 600 yards on the right, although the left flank remains in about the
same position. Air support for the operation ends with a P-51 strike in
behalf of the 5th Marine Division.

Burma - The Indian 19th Division clears the city area of Mandaly.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                           | [email-masked]
Cary, North Carolina                 | http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 18:59:24 -0500
From:    "Roger D. Corrie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Tin Can Sailor

Does anyone know the address, phone number or email for the magazine Tin Can
Sailor.
CPORog (Roger D. Corrie)            CAG Devil 00 is down I need 5!!!
[email-masked]
http://www.infi.net:80/~cporog/     Is that 5 maintenance min. or 5 real min?
804-427-2200

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 06:39:30 +0700
From:    "Peter E. Beal" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: HIST: A strange American desertion

On Mon, 13 Mar 1995 [email-masked] wrote:

> In reading William L. Combs, THE VOICE OF THE SS: A HISTORY OF THE SS JOURNAL
> "DAS SCHWARZE KORPS" [Peter Lang, 1986], I came across the bizarre story of
> Martin James Monti, native of Florrisant MO, who left post in Karachi in
> October 1944 and hitched plane rides to Italy where he stole a P-38
> photo-recon plane. He flew to German-occupied territory and gave himself
> up. He allegedly then cooperated with the Germans and under the alias of
> "Cpt. Martin Wiethaupt" prepared some radio commentaries later broadcast to
> American troops. "Supposedly, Monti had acquired SS credentials by the end of
> the war when he surrendered at US Fifth Army headquarters in Milan" [p.414].
>
> There's a bit more to this weird tale. Will post if anyone is interested.
>
> -- Warren Thompson
>
> [email-masked]
>
Do tell more.  This fellow had to be a bit daft since the direction of
the war had to be pretty clear to every thinking person.  Also, it is
interesting that he was able to safely land a U.S. plane with U.S.
markings at an Axis airport.  Shades of Mathias Rust!

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 18:41:58 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Accuracy and "Victory at Sea" (was- Re: Battle of the Bulge)

like, it's just gotta be HMS BARHAM-- no other battlewagon rolled and
blew like she did.  By the way, that footage also appears in the
beginning of the film THE GUNS OF NAVARONE; can you imagine BARHAM losing
to a pair of 28cm fortress guns??

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

On Mon, 13 Mar 1995, Roger Coon wrote:

> Henry,
>         I believe I have seen the film segment that you mentioned and
> I think it was the HMS Barham.  I should warn you that I am dealing
> from my fuzzy and aging memory here.
> Brad Coon
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 20:49:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 14 MAR 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
WEDNESDAY, 14 MARCH 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-26, Douglas Invader
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  UC-64, Noorduyn Norseman
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang
  P-61, Northrop Black Widow
  Spitfire, Vickers Supermarine

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): Of 12 B-25s taking off to cover a naval task
force on its way to Matsuwa Island in the Kurile Islands, 6 abort due to
weather and failure to locate the task force; the others fly coverage sorties
throughout the day.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 3 B-24s claim 1 cargo
vessel sunk in the S China Sea; 1 B-25 and 4 fighter-bombers damage 12 track
sections near Tungyangchen; and 4 P-51s hit railroad targets of opportunity
near Chihsien. 19 P-51s and P-38s blast the barracks area at Vinh Yen, French
Indochina.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 20 P-47s fly close support
for elements of the Chinese 50th Division in the Mansam area; 3 B-25s knock
out a bridge at Laihka while 11 others bomb troop and a vehicle concentration
nearby; 39 P-47s hit troop concentrations, supplies and vehicles at Laihka
and Namlan while 29 others sweep roads S of the bomb line. 614 air supply
sorties are flown to forward areas. The 165th Liaison Squadron (Commando),
1st Air Commando Group, moves from Asansol, India to Sinthe, Burma with
UC-64s and L-5s and the 166th Liaison Squadron (Commando) moves from Sinthe
to Asansol with the same aircraft.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 3 missions are flown.
  Mission 886: 1,262 bombers and 804 fighters are dispatched to hit oil, rail
and industrial targets in Germany; they claim 17-0-1 Luftwaffe aircraft in
the air; 3 B-17s and 2 fighters are lost:
  1. 526 B-17s are sent to hit oil refineries at Nienhagen (58) and Misburg
(56), the Gebruder munitions plant (75) and Maschnbau (61) and Eisenwerke
(74) factories at Hannover and the Seelze marshalling yard (80); secondary
targets hit are Osnabruck (29) and the marshalling yard at Hannover; attacks
were made visually and with H2X radar; 2 B-17s are lost, 1 damaged beyond
repair and 188 damaged; 3 airmen are KIA, 6 WIA and 19 MIA. 192 of 204 P-51s
escort; 2 are damaged.
  2. 449 B-17s are dispatched to hit the bridges at Vlotho (72) and Bad
Ostenhausen (114), the marshalling yard and road junction at Lohne (144) and
industrial plants at Hildesheim (60); 39 hit Osnabruck, a secondary target;
targets of opportunity are the marshalling yards at Hameln (12) and Wetzlar
(1) and Diemonde (1); all but one target is bombed visually; 1 B-17 is lost
and 56 damaged; 1 airman is WIA and 9 MIA. Escorting are 182 of 194 P-51s;
they claim 1-0-1 aircraft.
  3. 272 B-24s are sent to hit the marshalling yards at Holzwickede (31) and
Gutersloh (126); 110 others hit the secondary target, the marshalling yard at
Giessen; attacks are made visually and with H2X radar; 4 B-24s are damaged; 1
airman is KIA and 5 WIA. The escort is 185 P-47s and P-51s; they claim 3-0-0
aircraft; 1 P-47 is lost (pilot MIA).
  4. 6 B-17s fly a screening mission without loss.
  5. 29 of 33 P-41s escort Ninth AF bombers.
  6. 50 P-51s fly a sweep of the Stein-Huder-Kassel area claiming 11-0-0
aircraft without loss.
  7. 82 P-51s fly a sweep over the Remagen bridgehead; 1 P-51 is lost (pilot
MIA) and 1 damaged beyond repair.
  8. 20 P-51s escort 33 F-5s and 3 Spitfires on photo reconnaissance missions
over Germany and Czechoslovakia.
  9. 26 of 27 P-51s fly a scouting mission claiming 1-0-0 aircraft.
  Mission 887: 9 B-17s use DISNEY rockets weapons on the Ijmuiden submarine
pens without loss.
  Mission 888: 7 B-24s bomb the marshalling yard at Wiesbaden by PFF during
the night without loss.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In Germany, 350+ A-20s, A-26s and
B-26s hit 3 airfields, 4 rail bridges, a junction, 5 towns, and 3 targets of
opportunity as the interdiction operations continue; fighters escort the
bombers, attack railroads and other special targets, fly patrols, sweeps, and
armed reconnaissance, cover the Remagen area, and support the US XII Corps as
it begins a drive from the Mosel River to the Rhine River, and the XX Corps
operations W of Trier and Saarburg. HQ 367th Fighter Group moves from St
Dizier to Conflans, France. The 410th Fighter Squadron, 373d Fighter Group,
moves from Le Culot, Belgium to Venlo, the Netherlands with P-47s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 634 B-17s and B-24s, with
fighter escorts, hit the Szony and Almasfuzito oil refineries and marshalling
yards at Komarom, Hungary; Nove Zamky, Czechoslovakia; Zagreb, Yugoslavia;
and Wiener-Neustadt, Graz, and Knittelfeld, Austria. 90 P-38s dive-bomb
bridges at Ptuj, Yugoslavia, 42 of them afterwards strafing rail traffic in
Yugoslavia and Austria. 21 P-51s also strafe rail traffic in Austria. B-17s
and B-24s drop supplies in N Italy and in Yugoslavia. F-5s continue
reconnaissance missions, including a larger than usual number of photo
reconnaissance flights (most of them heavily escorted) over Italy, Germany,
Austria, and Yugoslavia. The 71st Fighter Squadron, 1st Fighter Group, moves
from Sallsola Airfield to Lesina, Italy with P-38s.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s damage bridges at
Casarsa della Delizia, Cittadella, Vipiteno, and Campo; fighters and fighter-
bombers attack communications, ammunition and supply dumps, motor transport,
trains, buildings, and other targets, escort medium bombers, and support
ground forces, operating over much of N Italy from the Apennine battle area N
and NE. A-20s hit river crossings and targets of opportunity in the Po Valley
during the night of 13/14 Mar.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA
    Seventh Air Force: 11 B-24s from Guam Island bomb Susaki Airfield on
Chichi Jima Island while 23 from Angaur Island hit a Saragani Bay supply area
on Mindanao Island. During the night of 14/15 Mar, 5 more B-24s flying
individually hit Susaki Airfield.
    VII Fighter Command: 16 Iwo Jima-based P-51s strafe and dive-bomb Susaki
Airfield, the town of Okimura on Haha Jima Island, and several gun positions
on Chichi Jima. The ground echelon of the 549th Night Fighter Squadron, VII
Fighter Command, arrives on Iwo Jima Island from Hawaii (air echelon is
operating from Saipan Island with P-61s).

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: On Mindanao Island,
B-24s bomb the Konel area while B-25s and B-24s hit the village and AA
positions near Zamboanga and dock area at Isabela. A-20s and numerous
fighter-bombers (including some US Marine aircraft) hit installations and
defensive positions throughout Luzon Island. A-20s over Palawan Island hit
Pandanan Island. B-24s bomb the Mako, Formosa naval base. B-25s on an armed
reconnaissance and shipping sweep along the China coast bomb the secondary
targets when no ships are sighted. The 2d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 22d
Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves from Samar Island to Clark Field, Luzon with
B-24s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

14/0148Z MAR

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 19:48:09 -0600
From:    Bob Milan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Eastern Front

Hitler Moves East by Paul Carell. On Mon, 13 Mar 1995, Allen Witt wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm interested in reading about Russian operations on the eastern
> european front and am looking for sources. What do you folks
> recommend?
>
> The time frame is from the invasion/occupation of Poland to VE day.
>
>
> Allen Witt
> [email-masked]
>

______________________________________________________________________________
Bob Milan                               E-Mail : [email-masked]
Kelvin High School-Economics/History    Phone  : (204) 474-1492
155 Kingsway Ave.                       Fax    : (204) 453-2116
Winnipeg, Manitoba
CANADA  R3M OG3

______________________________________________________________________________
Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands
it. ...Albert Einstein

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 20:59:06 -0500
From:    Jodi Berls <[email-masked]>
Subject: Dudley Morton

Rod Rupert wrote:

>What is the evidence against Dudley Morton?

In his book *Wahoo*, Morton's executive officer, Richard O'Kane, recounts an
incident of Jan. 26, 1943, in which Morton ordered life boats carrying Japanes
e survivors from a troop transport ship to be smashed with fire from a
four-inch gun. O'Kane doesn't say anything about specifically targeting the
troops, only that the life boats were destroyed and that machine gun fire was
used to "scare the troops out of the boats." O'Kane's opinion is that Morton
made the right choice because the Japanese troops, if they were pulled out of
the water, would have immediately been thrown into the battle.

Other authors have been less kind about the incident. Edwin P. Hoyt's
*Submarines at War* says Morton's patrol report details that the troops
themselves deliberately were mowed down after leaving the boats and quotes
Morton as having said, "We destroyed all the boats and most of the troops."

I've seen numerous other accounts, but this probably tells you what you want
to know. Please note that I didn't cite this incident primarily to dump on Dud
ley Morton -- although I'm deeply uncomfortable with the notion of firing on
survivors, his point about the Japanese troops coming back to haunt Allied
ground forces is well taken. It's a pretty fine line between killing them by
torpedoing their ship and killing them by shooting them with a machine gun,
anyway. What disturbs me most is that this same patrol was held up by navy
propagandists as a great, heroic venture without making any mention of the
life boat incident, and there appears to have been no investigation or
reprimand involved. Apparently the winning side doesn't have to explain
itself for such actions.

Jodi Berls
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 22:10:36 -0500
From:    Jodi Berls <[email-masked]>
Subject: War crimes

Lou Coatney wrote, in reference to the discussion of Dudley Morton:

> This may not have been a war crime.

> Does anyone else on the list know if shooting a bailed-out pilot in his
chute over *his* territory is actually a war crime?

Still curious about "aggressive war," I rummaged about and found the
following excerpt from *Agreement by the Government of the United Kingdom of
Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the Government of the United States of
America, the Provisional Government of the Fench Republic and the Government
of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics for the Prosecution and Punishment
of the Major War Criminals of the European Axis* (whew!), dated Aug. 8, 1945,
London:

"The following acts, or any of them, are crimes coming within the
jurisdiction of the Tribunal for which there shall be individual
responsibility:
     (a) Crimes against peace: namely, planning, preparation, initiation or
waging of a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international
treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in in a common plan or
conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the foregoing:
     (b) War crimes: namely, violations of the laws or customs of war. Such
violations shall include, but not be limited to, murder, ill-treatment or
deportation to slave labour or for any other purpose of civilian population
of or in occupied territory, murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war or
persons on the seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private
property, wanton destruction of cities, towns or villages or devastation not
justified by military necessity:
     (c) Crimes against humanity: namely, murder, extermination, enslavement,
deportation, and other inhumane acts committed against any civilian
population, before or during the war, or persecutions on political, racial or
religious grounds in execution of or in connection with any crime within the
jurisdiction of the Tribunal, whether or not in violation of the domestic law
of the country where perpetrated."

I'm quoting this out of *The Laws of War: A Comprehensive Collection of
Primary Documents of International Laws Governing Armed Conflict*, by the
way. Looks to me like there's plenty of leeway for interpretation in this, so
I guess the answer to your question is: Can you get a favorable judge to sit
on the case?

Jodi Berls
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 22:12:32 -0500
From:    Jodi Berls <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Mush Morton

John Riegsecker wrote:

> No matter how you rationalize it, I'm certain we would have tried as a
war criminal any German or Japanese submariner who had done the same
thing.

I would argue that that's exactly what did happen when Doenitz was sentenced
for the *Laconia* order -- which seems to have brought us all around full circ
le to where this discussion started. :-)

Jodi Berls
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 20:15:01 -0800
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Accuracy and  "Victory at Sea"  (was- Re: Battle of the Bulge)

The battleship turning turtle, with crew running across its keel, then
huge explosion...
                HMS HOOD

--

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 20:20:44 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Mush Morton

>From:         Jodi Berls <[email-masked]>
>Subject:      Re: Mush Morton
>
>John Riegsecker wrote:
>
>> No matter how you rationalize it, I'm certain we would have tried as a
>war criminal any German or Japanese submariner who had done the same
>thing.
>
>I would argue that that's exactly what did happen when Doenitz was sentenced
>for the *Laconia* order -- which seems to have brought us all around full circ
>le to where this discussion started. :-)

One more twist (so maybe its a mobius band).

While Nimitz was Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral Karl Doenitz, former
commander of the German submarine force, was tried before the
International Military Tribunal in Nurnberg for, among other offenses,
conducting unretricted submarine warfare.  At the request of Doenitz's
attorney, Nimitz provided an affidavit stating that, on orders from
Washington, submarines under his command had conducteed the same sort of
warfare: "In the interest of operations against Japan, the Pacific Ocean
was declared an opertional area.  On December 7, 1941, the Chief of
Naval Operations had ordered unrestricted submarine warfare against
Japan."

     _Nimitz_, E.B. Potter.

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 12 Mar 1995 to 13 Mar 1995
*************************************************