Subject: WWII-L Digest - 10 Mar 1995 to 11 Mar 1995

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 00:02:18 -0500

There are 15 messages totalling 592 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. INF: USN Chronology 03-11-95
  2. New User Info
  3. Japan bibliography
  4. 50TH: VISIT TO PARIS
  5. INF: War Economics (2)
  6. MEDIA: Tokyo memorial service (2)
  7. TACT: Invasion of Attu
  8. Photos of Glacier Girl
  9. WW II List subscription info
 10. More on Bong
 11. HMAS PERTH, 1942, and HMAS WALLER, 1996
 12. Save one for Mainz
 13. JAPAN BIBLIO

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 1995 04:00:15 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 03-11-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
03/11 Sun. United States naval landing craft ferry Army troops
           across the Rhine River at the Remagen bridgehead,
           Germany; this operation continues throughout March
           1945.
            United States naval vessel damaged:
             Carrier RANDOLPH (CV-15), by suicide plane,
              Ulithi, Caroline Islands area,
              10 d. 01'N., 139 d. 40'E.
            German submarines sunk:
             U-681, by naval land-based aircraft (VPB-103),
              off western France,
              49 d. 53'N., 06 d. 31'W.
             U-2515 and U-2530, by Army aircraft, Hamburg,
              Germany.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 1995 01:34:39 -0800
From:    Steve New <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: New User Info

The timing of the Soviet declaration of war against Japan was set
at the Yalta conference in February 1945 (the text of which that
pertains to Japan is copied below), even though Stalin, in an
effort to downplay Roosevelt's attempts to elevate Chaing's China
to world power status, had promised to join in the war against Japan
after Germany's defeat as early as the Tehran conference of
November 1943.

On the afternoon of August 9, 1945, while Ambassador Sato was
attempting to press the Soviet government to advance Japan's peace
feelers to the Allies, the ambassador was summoned to the Foreign
Ministry to be given the Soviet Union's declaration of war.

AGREEMENT REGARDING JAPAN

The leaders of the three great powers - the Soviet Union, the
United States of America and Great Britain - have agreed that in
two or three months after Germany has surrendered and the war in
Europe is terminated, the Soviet Union shall enter into war
against Japan on the side of the Allies on condition that:

1. The status quo in Outer Mongolia (the Mongolian People's
Republic) shall be preserved.

2. The former rights of Russia violated by the treacherous
attack of Japan in 1904 shall be restored, viz.:

(a) The southern part of Sakhalin as well as the islands
adjacent to it shall be returned  to the Soviet Union;

(b) The commercial port of Dairen shall be internationalized,
the pre-eminent interests of the Soviet Union in this port being
safeguarded, and the lease of Port Arthur as a naval base of the
U.S.S.R. restored;

(c) The Chinese-Eastern Railroad and the South Manchurian
Railroad, which provide an outlet to Dairen, shall be jointly
operated by the establishment of a joint Soviet-Chinese company,
it being understood that the pre-eminent interests of the Soviet
Union shall be safeguarded and that China shall retain
sovereignty in Manchuria;

3. The Kurile Islands shall be handed over to the Soviet Union.

It is understood that the agreement concerning Outer Mongolia
and the ports and railroads referred to above will require
concurrence of Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek.  The President
will take measures in order to maintain this concurrence on
advice from Marshal Stalin.

The heads of the three great powers have agreed that these
claims of the Soviet Union shall be unquestionably fulfilled
after Japan has been defeated.

For its part, the Soviet Union expresses it readiness to
conclude with the National Government of China a pact of
friendship and alliance between the U.S.S.R. and China in order
to render assistance to China with its armed forces for the
purpose of liberating China from the Japanese yoke.

Joseph Stalin
Franklin d. Roosevelt
Winston S. Churchill

February 11, 1945.

--

Steve L. New
[email-masked]
Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 1995 23:52:00 UTC
From:    "Edward S. Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Japan bibliography

  Mike Yaklich's list is a good start.  For the ultimate bibliography see:

John J. Sbrega, =The War Against Japan, 1941-1945: An Annotated
Bibliography= (New York: Garland Publishing, Inc., 1989).  Contains 5,259
entries of published books and articles in English.  Nicely arranged into
100+ topics and subtopics, and has index of authors.  Most entries have 2 to
5 lines of description by Sbrega, a Professor of History at the Community
College of Rhode Island.

Of course, it lacks the many interesting publications since the cutoff date
of 12/31/87.

If anyone wants, I can look up the number of entries on a specific topic.

Ed Miller  [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 1995 11:50:15 +0100
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: 50TH: VISIT TO PARIS

  FOR JEFF ROBERTS
  I have waited to see if anyone else would comment on you message of
March 7 about my posting on my visit to Paris in 1945.  Since no one has,
I thought I should at least let you know that I read it with interest.
  After rereading the parts of my letter that you quoted, it does not seem
to me I can add much.  That is the way things were.
  We did not talk about sex much, but the lack of it was certainly a
burden for all of us.  This was particularly true for the married men, who
were usually, but not always, concerned about loyalty to their wives.
  I also noticed that those who had sex during visits to Paris looked
rather worried for several weeks, until they were sure they had not
brought something they did not want back with them.
  As to how my statements got by the censors, you are perhaps not aware
that officers censored their own letters.  The prohibitions related only
to military matters, not personal.  When censoring an enlisted man's
letter, it would never have occurred to me to delete anything of a
personal nature.
  Regards, John Ausland

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 1995 06:25:07 -0500
From:    Kevin Kamphaus <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: War Economics

To Robert Martensson:

There is a book called "There's a War To be Won" by Geoffrey Perrett which gets
into what it took to get the war machine going and keep it going. I find Perrettvery readable also. Iis been a couple of years since I read it so I don't remember the specifics, but its gets into some of the finacial aspects of the war.

Hope you enjoy it,

Kevin Kamphaus
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 1995 09:23:01 -0600
From:    Bill Smith <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA: Tokyo memorial service

>From Associated Press, today's Arkansas Democrat-Gazette:

        "The flames destroyed so much that no accurate death toll was
ever complied.  Estimates run from 83,000 to 197,000, but 100,00 is the
most frequently used figure.
        "The only worse attack was the U.S. atomic bombing of Hiroshima,
which is estimated to have killed 140,000 people."

Several questions here -- first, I don't recall seeing estimates over
100,000 for the Tokyo raid.  Where does that high number come from?

Second, I can only assume that 140,000 for Hiroshima is some sort of
aggregate that includes deaths months/years later from radiation related
illness.  I cannot recall ever seeing a death toll for Hiroshima over
100,000 that included only deaths directly related to the explosion.

In other words, I have always, and until someone more authoritative than
the Associated Press will continue, to maintain the Tokyo raid as the
most destructive single bombing mission of the war.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 1995 11:22:39 -0500
From:    Joseph Feld <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Tokyo memorial service

>>From Associated Press, today's Arkansas Democrat-Gazette:
>
>        "The flames destroyed so much that no accurate death toll was
>ever complied.  Estimates run from 83,000 to 197,000, but 100,00 is the
>most frequently used figure.
>        "The only worse attack was the U.S. atomic bombing of Hiroshima,
>which is estimated to have killed 140,000 people."
>
>Several questions here -- first, I don't recall seeing estimates over
>100,000 for the Tokyo raid.  Where does that high number come from?

The following was posted on 9 Mar 95 by James E. Irwin:
   "Estimates of the death toll in Tokyo run from 83,000 to 197,000 --
the enormous range a measure of the scale of destruction. Along with
so much else, the flames incinerated family registers and other
demographic records making it impossible for authorities to
accurately measure casualties."

Joseph Feld
[email-masked]
Ferndale, MI

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 1995 13:05:50 -0500
From:    James Ray Watkins <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: War Economics

Does this also include information on the training that went into the Warr
effort?

>To Robert Martensson:
>
>There is a book called "There's a War To be Won" by Geoffrey Perrett which gets
>into what it took to get the war machine going and keep it going. I find
Perrett
>very readable also. Iis been a couple of years since I read it so I don't
rememb
>er the specifics, but its gets into some of the finacial aspects of the war.
>
>
>Hope you enjoy it,
>
>Kevin Kamphaus
>[email-masked]
>
Ray Watkins
A.I., Department of Rhetoric and Composition
English, University of Texas at Austin

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 1995 15:03:23 -0800
From:    Steve New <[email-masked]>
Subject: TACT: Invasion of Attu

I would like to add my thanks to Mike Yaklich for the great work he
put into summarizing the war from the Japanese side.

It is such a huge subject, as Mike has so evidently discovered, that
even with all he as written he hasn't been able to provide much
more than a broad brush description of the Pacific war.

It is because of this that I fear that he has unintentionally left
an incorrect impression of the defense of Attu island n 1943.
Hopefully, this will help to straighten that out.  I promise that
I'm only going to talk about Attu.  I haven't the guts to tackle a
subject of greater scope.

We begin with Mike's 5 March posting, "Tactical afterthoughts on
Japan part 4", where he describes the differences between the top
10% of Japanese officers, who received staff training, with the
other 90% who didn't:

>...The other 90%, most of whom could not realistically expect more
>than, with luck, to retire as colonels after a few decades of
>service, tended to be far less imbued with analytical skills.
>Among this majority of Japanese officers who populated the middle
>and lower ranks of the officer corps, there was a strong tendency
>to give prominence to spiritual and moral factors over the
>material...local initiatives by the field officers of the type just
>described were more likely to result in "bamboo spear tactics..."

The next time Mike mentions "Bamboo spear tactics" is in his 9
March posting "Apologies to the emporer for Japan posts" where he
describes the fight for Attu:

>The Japanese subsequently fought a long delaying action on Attu
>before being wiped out (here they really used bamboo spear tactics
>at the end-- the last charge by some 800 Japanese included a number
>of men with rifles who charged with fixed bayonets because they
>were out of ammunition).  They managed to withdraw undetected from
>Kiska.

I'm going to come to the defense of Colonel Yamakazi, the commander
of the Japanese garrison on Attu.

The defense of Attu actually begins on 18 February 1943.  On this
date, Admiral McMorris intercepted and sank two transports
attempting to re-supply Attu and Kiska.  In response, the IJN
ordered Adm. Hosagoya to escort the next two transports to the
Aleutians.  Warned by radio intercepts that the convoy was coming,
but not the size of the Japanese effort, Adm. McMorris, with two
cruisers and two destroyers met Adm. Hosagoya's 4 cruisers and 4
destroyers off of the Komodorski islands.  A four hour gun battle
ensued, leaving the USS Salt Lake City dead in the water and
hiding in smoke.  However, Adm. Hosagoya, low on ammunition and
fearing an attack by land based bombers (who could not fly because
the weather at their field was so bad that their bombs were frozen
to the ground) turned back.  Subsequently, Adm. McMorris' forces
stopped two more Japanese destroyers attempting to re-supply Attu
and Kiska.  The upshot of all this is that from February 18 to May
11 (the date of the Attu landings) Colonel Yamakazi and his force
of 2,600 were completely cut off from their supply line.  They were
also subject to bombing by the Army, Navy, or both, every day that the
weather permitted an attack.

To liberate Attu, Admiral Francis W. Rockwell was given a force of
11,000 soldiers on five troop transports.  These were escorted by
a light carrier, three battleships and 19 smaller vessels.

The plan was to land at two points on the island, Holtz Bay to the
North and Massacre Bay to the south.  Both forces were to move
inland until they met, then turn east and trap the Japanese forces
in a cul-de-sac called Chichagof Valley.  There the Japanese, with
no escape route open to them, could surrender or be taken apart.
The battle was expected to last three days.

Unfortunately, Col. Yamashita hadn't read the script.

Yamashita's first decision was to not squander any of his meager
force attempting to oppose the landings.  The Americans came
ashore unopposed.  Instead, Yamashita had established a series of
firing positions high on the ridges of this rugged island (many
were obscured from sea level by the cloud cover).  From these
positions, where the firing points to the choke points that the US
forces had to pass were long before established, his people were
able to attack the US forces with frightening accuracy whenever
the GIs attempted to advance.

Using airpower, shipborne artillery, land based artillery and
massed troops, the Americans finally pushed Yamashita's forces
into the Chicagof, but not until the three day invasion had
stretched from May 11 to May 29.  Even then, the Japanese held the
high ground, and weren't trapped in the cul-de-sac that was the
original intent.

The Japanese were essentially out of food and ammunition at this
point, and Yamashita could see only one way out.  If they could
attack, and break through, a weak point in the American line, they
might be able to reach the food and ammunition that the US had
stockpiled on the beach.

On the morning of the 29th, down to 1000 men, Yamashita began his
attack.  While it started out well, it eventually broke against an
engineer unit dug in on a hilltop that lay across their path.
Heavy rifle and machine gun fire held the Japanese up until
American reinforcements could arrive.

Still, the Japanese continued the fight through the night, and in
a final "bamboo spear" attack on the morning of the 30th, Colonel
Yamashita, and his command, died.

Of the approximately 2,600 Japanese on the island when the assault
began, only 28 survived.  In turn, these troops caused
approximately 2,500 casualties (killed & wounded) among the
Americans.

Colonel Yamashita's defense of Attu is more comparable to the
defense of Iwo Jima or Okinawa, (battles fought far later in the
war after the Japanese had revised their defensive strategies) than
it is to the "bamboo spear" tactics that were prevalent among the
Japanese in 1943.

--

Steve L. New
[email-masked]
Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 1995 20:24:48 -0500
From:    Joseph Feld <[email-masked]>
Subject: Photos of Glacier Girl

Dennis,

I received the photos of the "Glacier Girl" today.  Many thanks!  I have a
couple of questions that I thought I'd share with the rest of the group.  I
know I must be starting to become a nuisance on your mailbox.

I was intrigued to see in one of the photos several M2HB, .50 caliber
machine guns ("Ma Deuces" we called them in the modern army.  I don't know
if this nickname was used in WWII.) in the nose cradles.  Does anyone know
how the restoration team would have acquired these pieces of hardware?
Don't worry anyone, I'm asking out of curiosity only.  I don't actually
want one (though I *do* have this one neighbor who drives me absolutely
nuts...).

Also, can someone tell me what would have been the standard armament of a
P-38F, as well as how it might have been configured for individual
missions?

Joseph Feld
[email-masked]
Ferndale, MI

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 1995 20:43:31 -0500
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: WW II List subscription info

Hello,

I would like to your WWII list. Please send me subscription information.

Thank you.

Doug
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 1995 21:25:28 -0500
From:    chris garcia <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: More on Bong

On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Robert T. Moore wrote:

> Hello, Chris!
>
> This has probably been answered but a good wingman will protect his
> leader at all times. Hotshotting it off on your own may often as not
> cause you to get nailed, particularly if inexperienced.
>
That was my experience in these computer simulations too, a credit to the
med who wrote them.  My problem is, if I stay close to my flight leader,
I get nailed, if I go off looking to raise my score I get nailed.  In the
confusion of a dogfight things get scattered anyway.  I was listening to
a Recorded Books tape of "Messerschmitts Over Sicily" by Col. Johannes
Steinhoff, recounting his Luftwaffe years in Sicily, before the Americans
moved in.  He had just come in from the Battle of stalingrad, and had
never encountered formations of American heavy bombers before, and
General Galland had been lecturing them on how the boys in Reich's
Defense knocked them down.  Steinhoff thought he understood the idea
until they actually ran into their first group of B-17's over the
mediterranean ocean.  He dived in and the whole fighter group scattered
like sack of fleas.  Half of them were on their last reserves of fuel and
turned back without firing a shot.  He shot down his first VIERMOT and
looked around and everyone was gone.  He flew back pretty much by himself
and the planes drifted in one by one.  Two never showed up at all,
probably having crashed into the sea.  If he'd had a wingman it didn't do
him any good.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 1995 21:34:19 -0600
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <[email-masked]>
Subject: HMAS PERTH, 1942, and HMAS WALLER, 1996

'Thought WWII-L might be interested, too:

As some of you already know, I've designed a cardstock (paper)
  model of -- among others -- the HMAS SYDNEY class of light
  cruisers:  specifically HMAS PERTH.  There was a photo of
  my growing fleet in the Feb95 issue of FINESCALE MODELER.

Recently, I received a letter from the grandson of CAPT Hector
  Waller, the captain of HMAS PERTH who died with his ship in
  the Battle of Sunda Straits, 28Feb/1Mar42.  (This was the
  battle in which USS HOUSTON -- "The Galloping Ghost of the
  Java Coast" -- was also sunk, and USN CAPT Rooks died with
  *his* ship, as well.)  Anyway, Mr. Waller said that he and
  his family were quite excited to hear about my model.

I have mentioned before the idea of *models* being, in and of
  themselves, memorials to the ships and men they represent
  -- and how I will be providing dedications to them, as I do
  for the wargames I design.  His letter was further motiva-
  tion on that count.

Anyway, he lives in the Midwest -- his family emigrated to
  Canada, and he's now here in the States -- so on my way back
  from the Egyptian Campaign wargames convention at Southern
  Illinois Univ. I gave him a call on the phone.

We talked about HMAS PERTH and scale model warships of
  model warships of WWII Commonwealth cruisers, generally.
  However, he mentioned that the Royal Australian Navy is
  going to be commissioning the new (conventionally
  powered) attack submarine HMAS Waller next year, and his
  whole family is going to try to make the ceremony.

(I'm sure *anyone* interested is welcome ... if you can get
  there.  :-)  )

Andrew was trying to negotiate his 2 yr old daughter to bed
  during the conversation and had babysitting duties, so he
  still wasn't able to see the model himself.  Higher,
  happier priorities.  :-)

It is important to remember that new ships -- as is also
  often true for new children -- are often named/
  commissioned in proud and/or beloved *remembrance*.

Lou Coatney, Model Shipwright at Large
  [email-masked]

Incidentally, at SIU I playtested my new SEA, SKY, AND
  *JUNGLE*:  THE HORROR OF GUADALCANAL, AUG-DEC42.  It's
  a fairly simple game -- sort of a cross between the old
  parlor gamee BATTLESHIP and a regular wargame.  I'm afraid
  I didn't emulate Halsey very well, but if I just change a
  *few* of the rules ... :-)

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 1995 22:55:33 -0500
From:    Joseph Feld <[email-masked]>
Subject: Save one for Mainz

About ten years ago, I found myself on my second tour in Germany, this time
with the 8th Infantry Division (my first round overseas had been with the
3rd Armored Division).  While in-processing at division HQ in Bad Kreuznach
<sp?> I heard an interesting story that I always wanted to check on, but
somehow never found the time to do so.

You see, I was about to be sent to the 4th Battalion of the 69th Armored
Regiment, stationed at Lee Barracks in Mainz-Gonnsenheim, and I was being
in-processed by a crusty, old CW4 who was wearing on his right arm the
patch of the unit (the 4th Infantry Division, at Ft. Carson) that I had
just come from.  During the course of our conversation he told me the story
of "Save One for Mainz"  As I served my four year tour with the 8th ID I
came across this story many times.

According to the tale, it seems that during the early years of the air war
over Europe the crew member of an American bomber bailed out and landed in
the Rhine.  After spending several hours battling the violent currents of
that river, he finally managed to reach the shore, right in the middle of
the city of Mainz.  The citizens of Mainz, angered over a recent allied
bombing raid that had destroyed a city park, killing many children, held a
kangaroo court in the Rathous Platz, and then executed the airman.  As the
story goes, once word of this reached the allies, bomber crews would often
rig their bomb racks to save one bomb, and then would fly sometimes
hundreds of miles out of their way to deliver that last bomb to Mainz.

Now, while I know that so much of this sounds like military folklore, I
*do* know from many visits to local museums, and from talking to residents
of Mainz and Wiesbaden (where I had an apartment for two years, right
across the Rhine from Mainz) that the city was over 80% destroyed by
bombing during the war.  This always seemed to me to be an unusually high
percentage.

I wonder, has anyone else ever heard of "Save One for Mainz"?  I would be
most interested if I could hear from some of the WWII veterans on this
list.  Keep in mind, I will not be disappointed if the story is not true,
but I really would like to hear if it is.

Joseph Feld
[email-masked]
Ferndale, MI

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 1995 23:53:29 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: JAPAN BIBLIO

Mike, there is no such thing as an "ex-Marine." Marines are either serving,
retired, or former. Once a Marine, always a Marine. By the way, Kogun was
co-authored by Alvin D. Coox. Regards, Ben Frank

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 10 Mar 1995 to 11 Mar 1995
*************************************************