Subject: WWII-L Digest - 13 Mar 1995 to 14 Mar 1995

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 00:01:04 -0500

There are 44 messages totalling 1882 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Obersalzberg con't
  2. Capsizing/exploding battleship:  HMS ??????
  3. Pearl Harbor questions
  4. Eagle's Nest
  5. Obersalzberg Pt 3
  6. NOST:UK Sites
  7. INF: USN Chronology 03-14-95
  8. INF: There a War to be Won
  9. Seattle Area Sites (4)
 10. Generals
 11. Obersalzberg Pt 4 (3)
 12. Micro nations during WW2, part one--Tannu Tuva
 13. Obersalzberg, Part 5
 14. Ref: Defense of Truman
 15. Aggressive Warfare
 16. HIST: A strange American desertion (3)
 17. TAC: Enterprise Green (2)
 18. Soviet operations against Japanese in Manchuria
 19. Soviets in Manchuria (conclusion)
 20. HIST: Strange American desertion ... conclusion
 21. TACTICAL AFTERTHOUGHTS (2)
 22. Intro and questions
 23. Soviets/Manchuria
 24. MEDIA:Return to Iwo Jima
 25. MEDIA:Wreath Laying Ceremony
 26. HOME:FRANCE - "une victoire intellectualle"
 27. ADMIN: POLITICAL AFTERTHOUGHTS
 28. Soviet invasion of Sth Sakhalin
 29. [INF] USAAF 15 MAR 45
 30. INF: 50 Years Ago - 15-MAR-1945
 31. WW II List subscription info (2)
 32. Mush Morton
 33. Doenitz
 34. QUES: Mountbatten pink

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 22:40:39 -0600
From:    "Jeff J. Dingbaum" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Obersalzberg con't

On Mon, 13 Mar 1995, COL Donnell, Doug wrote:

>
> The Eagle's Nest
>
> To construct it a four mile long road was blasted out of solid rock, with
> many hairpin turns and small tunnels.  That led to a parking area from which
> a tunnel was dug 150 feet into the mountain to a shaft rising 350 feet to
> the top of the mountain.

The only way to even aproach the complex is by tour bus.  They will take
you up the road (another bus comes down at the same time and they meet in
only one spot along the way.) There are two or three spots where you go
through short tunnels and if you look closely you can see massive door
hinges still embedded in the rock on EACH side of every tunnel.  It would
have taken quite an effort to get up that road!

The first thing you see entering the tunnel is the date on top (1938 if
my memory is any good).  You walk down the dimly lit tunnel and you can
almost feel Hitler walking next to you.  It is really eerie.  According
to the tour guides he was fond of walking the tunnel, but not so enamored
of the elevator.

>
> The Tea House itself is not particularly large.  It consists of a dining room,
> large tea room, study, kitchen, guard room , rest room, washrooms, and a
> basement.  Most rooms are lined with pine or elm wood.
>

The fireplace in the great room was one thing that struck me.  It was a
reddish marble? that also had the date carved in it.  Unfortunately,
souvenier hunters have hacked away, but it still adds to the aura of the
room.

This site doesn't have all of the whiz bang planes, boats, etc, but it, along
with Dachau, were two places that I will always remember about my honeymoon
trip to Germany.  ( Along with that fantastic chicken they serve at October
fest!!!!)

Doug, Thanks for the excellent postings.

Jeff Dingbaum
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 23:37:29 -0600
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Capsizing/exploding battleship:  HMS ??????

*Not* HOOD, Sid.  KGV was a good distance away, and the bow
  of HOOD broke off and sailed on apiece after the explosion.

The battleship which capsizes and erupts *is* BARHAM, sunk
  by 3 torpedoes from a U-boot.  It does have the HOOD's
  main armament up front 2x2 15" guns, and it is easy to
  confuse the ships, end-on (although, from the side, BARHAM
  was *much* shorter).

There are also shots of a battleship with 2x3 guns capsizing.
  I believe that is a WWI shot of one of the excellent
  Austro-Hungarian battleships going down after being torpedoed
  by an Italian torpedoboat.

The other spectacular shot of a battleship's destruction, of
  course, is ARIZONA blowing up after being hit by a horizontal
  bomber at Pearl Harbor.

Pity that the world's governments/navies have never invested
  enough in photographers and cameras to be sure of getting
  shots of the key episodes, like the sinking of BISMARCK,
  YAMATO, etc.  Surely, there was Japanese footage of the
  destruction of the Kido Butai at Midway.  I wonder if they
  were destroyed during the war incidentally or intentionally.

It really gets exasperating to see films having to use the
  same, inaccurate footage for whatever battle scenes.  Maybe
  computer imagery is sufficient, now, for animation more
  realistic than the traditional models.

Lou Coatney, [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 21:24:54 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor questions

Louis - you asked about scorpions in Hawaii.  I  am not aware of any,
but if they are here they would not be indiginous.

****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       [email-masked]
Cultural Resource Manager
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS       (808) 422-2771  extension 130
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 08:50:12 CET
From:    "COL Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Eagle's Nest

A follow up to yesterday's post. .

Jeff, you remembered correctly.  The large fireplace in the tea room (and it
IS a VERY large fireplace is made of red Italian marble.

Total cost of the Eagle's nest/Tea Room was RM30 million.

Following the war the terrace was enlarged.

Construction on the project was completed in two years, working only from
May till October.

Apparently, there were quite a number of constuction accidents, given the
speed with which work progressed (under great pressure from Bormann), and
several workers were killed or injured.

                            Doug

Doug Donnell
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 09:11:30 CET
From:    "COL Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Obersalzberg Pt 3

As the war dragged on and Allied air raids became more and more common,
Bormann decided that a bunker system should be constructed on the
Obersalzberg.  What started out to be simple air raid shelters turned
into a major undertaking.  By the time everyone had what they wanted
(air conditioning, carpets, machine gun emplacements, custom made
cabinets, paneling, etc), over two miles of tunnels had been built.
Goering had had a separate air raid shelter built and now asked that
he be connected to the main system.  Bormann refused, so Goering's
still remains separated from the rest.  Construction continued on the
main tunnel complex.  Eva Braun wanted (and got) her own bathroom.
Special storage rooms were built to house pictures, records, and books.
A complete kitchen and refrigeration system was installed.  Bormann, of
course, did an exceptional job of taking care of himself.  His spaces
included and inlaid floor covered with oriental rugs, paneling, laquered
doors, and enough food to last 200 years.

Stats:  Total length of corredors - 2775 meters;  Total number of rooms -
79; total area 4120 sq meters.

(please excuse spelling errors. . .I get a bit heavy handed at times)

More to follow. . .

                          Doug

Doug Donnell
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 09:40:26 CET
From:    "COL Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: NOST:UK Sites

Last week Chris asked about UK sites.  One of the British NCOs stationed here
picked up some info on various UK sites but only one relates to WWII.  I'll
send the whole package Chris if you want it, just e-mail me your address.

Of interest to the list might be the Cabinet War Rooms.  Descrition from
the brochure:

Located in the basement of a government building in the heart of ceremonial
London, the Cabinet War Rooms were hurriedly converted on the eve of
the Second World War as emergency underground accommodation to protect the
Prime Minister and the British Government against air attack.  In operational
use from 27 August 1939 to the Japanese surrender in 1945, these rooms
were to become the vital nerve-centre used to Winston Churchill, his War
Cabinet and the Chiefs of Staff of Britain's armed forces during the
greatest threat to its continuing existence that the nation has ever
known.

Today, visitors can view the original complex of twenty-one historic
rooms, and marvel at the spartan conditions endured by those who
worked in them, preserved exactly as they were before the lights were
finally extinguished after six years of war.

Open daily 1000am to 6 pm (last admission 5:15 pm).  Closed 24-26 dec.

Entrance to the Cabinet War Rooms is on Horse Guards Road overlooking St
James Park with special access by lift and full facilities for the disabled.

Adults: L3.90, Children (5-16 years) L1.90, senior citizens L3.00, students
and registered unemployed: L2.80, Family ticket (2 adults and up to 3 children
L10.00).

All visitors are provided with a free step-by-step personal sound guide
avaiable in English, French, German, Italian, and Spanish.

Personal note:  I had the good fortune to visit shortly after it opened.
Very interesting and well worth the time.

                            Doug Donnell

Doug Donnell
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 04:00:17 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 03-14-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
03/14 Wed. Submarine ROCK (SS-274) lands supplies on Lombok
           Island, Netherlands East Indies.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 07:08:19 -0500
From:    Kevin Kamphaus <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: There a War to be Won

For James Ray Watkins ,

There are parts of the book that deal with training and the lack of adequate
training but I don't remember how much. The book is out on an interfamily loan
so I can't check into it.

Kevin Kamphaus
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 14:59:58 CST
From:    Michael P LaForge <[email-masked]>
Subject: Seattle Area Sites

Ft. Lewis Museum open 1200-1600 Tuesday thru Sunday.
Closed on all Mondays AND Federal Holidays.
Tel: 206-967-7206
Located in Fort Lewis WA, off I-5.
The two themes of the museum are "Soldiers of the
Northwest" in one gallery and "Seventh ID" Gallery as
well as gallery honoring the First Corps presently
garrisoned at Fort Lewis. Enjoy.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 08:01:04 EST
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Generals

Truscott was given only praise by Bradley, both of whom regarded the second
amphibious, August 11th assault of the 2nd Battaliion, 30th Inf Regt, 3rd Inf
Div to be poorly timed. Seveth Army (Patton) had not supplied aerial photos
and therefore a number of drainage ditches were not discovered until Truscott's
artillery were basically trapped on the beach. The landing went off without
detection, however, until a passing motorcyclist was shot on the coast road
by whom Bradley calls, "a squad of jittery riflemen". Truscott fought head-on
with the Germans in order to get his land forces to the beachhead.

-Alan

Alan Wild, Sr. Prog/Analyst
ACC - Lippitt - URI
Kingston, RI  02881

American Legion, Post 102
I am the NRA.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 14:52:39 CET
From:    "COL Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Obersalzberg Pt 4

Work continued on the Obersalzberg throughout the war with various improvements
and construction projects going on virtually all the time.

On Wednesday, 25 April 1945 came the beginning of the end.  At 0930 people in
the area were alerted to take cover and went into the air raid shelters.
30 minutes later the first wave of RAF Lancasters began dropping 1000 lb
bombs.  About 30 minutes after the first wave another wave began an hour
long bombardment which destroyed or damaged the majority of the structures
on the Obersalzberg.  One side of Hitler's Berghof was destroyed and extensive
damage was done to Goring and Bormann's houses.  The SS barracks and
Platterhof were badly damaged and the entire area was heavily cratered.

The SS Commander withdrew, having made the decision not to defend the
area and almost immediately extensive looting began -- as people carted
off the vast quantities of food, clothing, and other goods that had been
stored in the complex.  On May 4, the remaining SS troops poured gasoline
on the remains of the Berghof and set it afire.  That same day, the
first Allied soldiers entered Berchtesgaden about 4 in the afternoon,
siezing the town and taking about 2000 prisoners.  On May 5 the American
flag was raised over the Berghof.

(There's an interesting story of an altercation between the French and
American leadership, the French having arrived in Berchtesgaden shortly
after the Americans, but I'll save that for another time).

In the days following Germany's surrender, the Obersalzberg and Berchtesgaden
area became a premier tourist attraction for the occupying troops.  All
or I should say many, of the remaining undamaged buildings became billets
as the area was turned into a sort of rest and relaxation center.  As many
as 3000 people a day (and 10000 on Sundays) came to see the Obersalzberg.

There were plenty of attractions.  Quoting from "After the Battle, no 9"

"In an inn at Unterstein, about half-way between Berchtesgaden and the
lake [Koingsee], was another tourist attraction.  A sign hanging outside,
'The Hermann Goering Art Collection -- through courtesy of the 101st
Airborne Division', explained the contents.

The art treasures had been found in a sealed tunnel near Berchtesgaden.
Nearby had also been Goering's private train with its luxurious double
bed sleeping rooms, tiled bathrooms, and lounge cars.  The train was
pulled out on a siding and became an attraction in its own right.  Hitler's
four ton aromured Mercedes-Benz touring car was picked up and
replaced General Taylog's jeep.  Colonel Sink got from place to place in
Goering's roadster, another mammoth armoured affair.

Among the other outstanding finds was a cache of approximately
$4,080,000 in twenty six different currencies.  This was dug up May 23 in
a barn near St Johann and was supposed to have been a private fund buried
for Heinrich Himmler.

More coming soon. . .

                             Doug

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 08:39:18 -0600
From:    Greg Kelley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Micro nations during WW2, part one--Tannu Tuva

Tannu Tuva, that forgotten paradise of the western Gobi, retained its
neutrality status during the Second World War, though sympathies
certainly lay with the Soviet Union; the Tuvans (or Tuvinians)
supplied the Soviet war machine with no fewer than 40,000 horses and 600,000
cattle, quite an accomplishment for a nation with an estimated
population in 1941 of only 95,000.  On the other hand, sources are
unclear as to how spontaneous these wondrous gifts truly were-- a branch
office of the Soviet GPU (precursor of the NKVD) had been established in
Kyzyl [also known as Kyzyl Khoto], the nation's capital back in the mid
1920's under the auspices of that noted Soviet Mongol A. Shoizhelov,
much of whose illustrious career was spent under the nom de guerre [as it
were] of Natsov.

It is believed the Tuvinian "People's Revolutionary Army" (its formal title)
maintained a state of armed neutrality throughout the war years, although
there is no evidence to suggest that there was any significant increase
of local forces, which had peaked at an all-time high back in 1929 of
1,600 men.  Tuvinian military strength rested with its mounted
squadrons-- hardly surprising, since the Tuvinian Peoples Revolutionary
Army had been founded back in 1924 on the heels, or rather hooves, of the
various Soviet cavalry columns that "visited" the country on the
invitation (and support) of the local GPU office.  Little, if any
mechanisation of the Tuvinian forces appears to have been done during
this time; a 1944 national survey reported only 42 (!!) agricultural
tractors extant (also 18 tractor-drawn and 52 horse-drawn threshers, just
in case anyone's wondering).

Tannu Tuva did not participate per se [sic?] in the Soviet invasion of
Japanese-held Manchuria (i.e. Manchukuo), as the Tuvinian people, or at
least the over 4,500 members of the Tuvinian "People's Revolutionary
Party" (another formal name--hey, you think I'm making this stuff up?)
requested admission into the Soviet Union on 17th August 1944, a wish
that was granted when the Republic of Tannu Tuva merged with the Soviet
Union on 13th October 1944.  Tragically, few people outside the local
region noticed this, and since only the Soviet Union and the Mongolian
Peoples Republic had ever formally recognised Tannu Tuva as an
independent nation and established legations at Kyzyl, the rest of the
world's first inkling of these developments came TWO YEARS LATER when the
Soviet Government made a public announcement of these events on 17th
August 1946.  The Tuvinian Peoples Revolutionary Army was reported as
disbanded following the great Soviet merger; it is not known whether any
hardy individuals from this gallant force accompanied the Soviets in the
August 1945 campaign.

In case anyone's interested (like if anyone's even still reading this far
into this posting, right?), only ONE European is known to have visted
Tannu Tuva during its brief exisitence as an independent nation.  That
was one Otto Maenchen-Helfen, a German social democrat who visited the
country around 1929; he even wrote a book about his visit--

REISE INS ASIATISCHE TUWA
(Berlin, der Bucherkreis GmBH, 1931)

well worth the read.......

hokay, one down; now I've got to get that verraechte entry on
Liechenstein transcribed---someday......

                                          Glad To Be Of Service!

                                          Greg Kelley
                                          St. Paul Public Library
                                          [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 16:18:47 CET
From:    "COL Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Obersalzberg, Part 5

Continuing where I left off (work keeps getting in the way of this). . .

Another fund of 900,000 Reichmarks was dug up on May 30 at Ruhpolding-Zell.

End of quote

Today many of the remaining buildings on the Obersalzberg belong to the US
Army which operates a recreation area for military personnel [without
using tax dollars, I might add].  The former Platterhof hotel was rennovated
and became the Gen Walker Hotel.  Most of the buildings damaged in the air
raid were torn down and little, if any, remains of them.  Hitler's Berghof
or what was left of it, was blown up by a demolition team on April 30, 1952,
before the area was again opened to the public.  All that remains is the
garage.  The bunker system still exists, but is sealed except for some
small portions which can be accessed for tours.  As I mentioned before, the
Eagles Nest was untouched in the air raid and is use today as a tea house
(owned by the Bavarian gov't but leased to a private contractor).

The buildings owned by the US military will be given back to the German
government late this year.   The details of this action were previously
posted.

Again, on a personal note, I'll be taking my family down for a few days
stay at the Gen Walker Hotel in April.  I'll add any further observations
I might have when I return.

                                Doug Donnell
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 09:32:41 CST
From:    "SCHERRER, TIM" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ref: Defense of Truman

As I have mentioned before, Northeast Missouri State University is in
the process of trying to change our name to Truman State University.  At
present, the bill making this happen has cleared the Missouri House of
Representatives committee and is waiting for vote by the full house and
Senate.

Several attempts have been made to usurp this process, and several
letter to the editor have appear from the World Peace Group, Missouri
Socialist Party, nesty International, etc opposing the change.  I am
attempting to take the wind out of some of their sails by disputing
facts in one particular letter, which stated the japanese were A-bombed
depsite showing signs they wanted to end the war.

I am looking for factual errors, or perhaps better wording for sentences
to make the point more direct.  I think these attempts against Truman
are revisionism at their worst, and a disservice to a great man.

Dear Sirs,

I have been watching this debate regarding the proposed name change of
NMSU with amazement at some of the things that have been said regarding
Harry Truman, primarily his decision to drop the Atomic Bomb on Japan.
I would like to point out one glaring error in a column I saw.

One stated that we dropped the atomic bomb on a country already showing
interest in peace.  While there were factions within Japan showing
interest in ending the war, these groups were not decisive in the
government.  The Japanese made one attempt to contact the U.S. using
Russia as a third party.  This effort reached Stalin, who did not pass
the information along, primarliy due to his planned land grabbing invasi
on against the Japanese.  This information was picked up by the U.S.
Intelligence services via a broken code, however it could not be
formally acknowledged by the U.S. leadership.  Acknowledging the
information would show compromise of the japanese code, and probably cut
off this invaluable life saving source of information for the Allies.
This information was also one thousands of cables read and the significa
nce of it was not seen due to the fog of war.  It was seen as diplomatic
chatter, not serious dialogue.

A second attempt was directed to Allen Dulles, the OSS station chief in
Vienna.  This attempt, made by low level diplomats, claimed they could c
ontact peace factions within Japan.  The U.S. government rated this atte
mpt as not serious nor worth consideration since it offered factions and
not the Government of Japan proper.  It was rebuffed.

If the Japanese were so interested inpeace why didn't they just contact
the U.S. government directly?  Why didn't they announce it on Tokyo Radi
o, the method used to surrender?  The turth is that only factions were
interested in peace, and they were not dominant in the government.  It t
ook three events to bring serious discussion to stopping the war--Hirosh
ima, the Russian invasion of Manchuria, and Nagasaki.  Even after this t
his the Japanese leadership still gridlocked over the decision to surren
der.  Only midnight intervention by the Emporer forced the surrender
on the hawk elements, ending this imperialistic war of aggression waged
by the Japanese.

People writing these columns are reading history backwards.  They are lo
oking for specific examples of peace initiatives spread far across the g
lobe and them together looking for a conspiracy.  This is revisionism at
it's worst.  At a time when Kamakazies crashed into U.S. ships, and thou
sands were dying on Iwo Jima and Okinawa, these items were invisible in
the big picture of the war.  Only looking backwards can see them as sign
ificant.  The decision to drop the Atomic Bomb saved hundreds of
thousands of U.S. and Japanese lives compared to Operations Olympic and
Coronet, the Allied invasion plan.  If we had not dropped the atomic
bomb the population of the U.S. and Japan would both be thinner due to
lost generation that followed.  Many of us would not be reading this
paper today for our grandfathers or fathers would have died during the w
inter of 1945-6 storming Japan.

TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 22:46:56 +0700
From:    "Peter E. Beal" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Obersalzberg Pt 4

On Tue, 14 Mar 1995, COL Donnell, Doug wrote:
>
> Among the other outstanding finds was a cache of approximately
> $4,080,000 in twenty six different currencies.  This was dug up May 23 in
> a barn near St Johann and was supposed to have been a private fund buried
> for Heinrich Himmler.

Who got the money?!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 10:15:14 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Aggressive Warfare

Hello, William!

If the
> tribunal came to their decision on this basis, that he was CINC, I wonder
> why they would think he was guilty of waging an aggressive war three years
> after it had started.

    These charges against Admiral Doenitz may be grounded in the way
and in the aggressiveness in which the submarine war was waged
against England and the United States. This is the only idea that
comes to my mind, even though he was doing nothing else any other
combattant country was doing at the time.

    My two cents' worth anyway.

    All the best.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 11:24:05 EST
From:    Mike Oaks <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: HIST: A strange American desertion

On Mon, 13 Mar 1995 10:36:26 -0500,
[email-masked]  <[email-masked]> wrote:

>In reading William L. Combs, THE VOICE OF THE SS: A HISTORY OF THE SS JOURNAL
>"DAS SCHWARZE KORPS" [Peter Lang, 1986], I came across the bizarre story of
>Martin James Monti

SNIP SNIP SNIP

I"d be very interested, bring on the info...
                                  TIA,
                                     Mike Oaks

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 08:50:36 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Seattle Area Sites

>From:         Michael P LaForge <[email-masked]>
>Subject:      Seattle Area Sites
>X-To:         [email-masked]
>To:           Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>
>
>Ft. Lewis Museum open 1200-1600 Tuesday thru Sunday.
>Closed on all Mondays AND Federal Holidays.
>Tel: 206-967-7206
>Located in Fort Lewis WA, off I-5.
>The two themes of the museum are "Soldiers of the
>Northwest" in one gallery and "Seventh ID" Gallery as
>well as gallery honoring the First Corps presently
>garrisoned at Fort Lewis. Enjoy.

You can't just walk in.  The guard will stop you and you need to get some
paper work done.  I would call first and make certain of the procedures first.
My only visit was when I already had a pass onto the base for other
business.

John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 10:25:12 -0700
From:    Jim O'Neil <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: HIST: A strange American desertion

>In reading William L. Combs, THE VOICE OF THE SS: A HISTORY OF THE SS JOURNAL
>"DAS SCHWARZE KORPS" [Peter Lang, 1986], I came across the bizarre story of
>Martin James Monti, native of Florrisant MO, who left post in Karachi in
>October 1944 and hitched plane rides to Italy where he stole a P-38
>photo-recon plane. He flew to German-occupied territory and gave himself
>up. He allegedly then cooperated with the Germans and under the alias of
>"Cpt. Martin Wiethaupt" prepared some radio commentaries later broadcast to
>American troops. "Supposedly, Monti had acquired SS credentials by the end of
>the war when he surrendered at US Fifth Army headquarters in Milan" [p.414].
>
>There's a bit more to this weird tale. Will post if anyone is interested.
>
Yes, do. It's weird alright; by Oct of 1944 everyone could see how it would
end. Nothing like joining the losing side... makes you wonder about his
reason[s].

Jim O'Neil   Indecision is the cornerstone of Military Flexibility

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 13:02:42 -0500
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: TAC: Enterprise Green

        In August and September 1940, while a large German force was being
assembled in the Channel ports to invade England, a smaller force was also
being assembled for a similar operation.  The target of this force was
Ireland and the Germans showed uncharacteristic irony when they named the
operation Enterprise Green.

        German interests in Ireland lay in several considerations.  First,
the Luftwaffe could operate over every square mile of England, Wales, and
Scotland (as well as Northern Ireland) from airfields in Ireland.  This
would have had a significant impact on the Battle of Britain since the
western sanctuaries used by the RAF would now have been targets.  E-boats
and U-boats would have had easier access to the Irish Sea, increasing the
interdiction of British supplies and placing a further strain on the Royal
Navy.  Further, Great Britain would have had a more difficult time
anticipating an invasion since it could have come from the west as well
as the south.

        The Germans also hoped to use the Irish government's foreign
policy to expedite the invasion.  The Irish armed forces numbered less
than 8,000 regulars with another 4,300 poorly equipped reservists with
no tanks and 16 obsolete aircraft.  As a result, Ireland could not
hope to meet any invaders at the beaches and drive them off.  Rather
the Irish defense lay in promising to cooperate with the second force
that was bound to invade Ireland.  In this way, they hoped to play the
Germans and the British off each other.  However, the Germans tried to
goad England into invading Ireland by returning two prominent leaders
of the IRA to Ireland to instigate unrest.  The Germans also leaked
details of the invasion to the British indicating that the invasion
was imminent.

        The British took the threat seriously enough that Churchill
had ordered that any German landings in Ireland were to be met with
poison gas.  More critical, though, was that the War Office had ordered
Bernard Montgomery's 3rd Division, the only fully equipped infantry
division in England at the time, to prepare to take Cork and the land
around Cork Harbor.  This would have played nicely for the Germans since
they intended to land between Dungarvan and Wexford which lay to the
northeast of Cork.  Not only would Britain have one less division to
defend Britain when Operation Sealion took place but the British troops
in Cork would have had to cross hilly terrain to engage the Germans who
would have outnumbered the British.  Historically, Montgomery was loath
to attack without overwhelming superiority, so one could easily visualize
the 3rd division withering on the vine in Cork as the Germans moved north
toward Dublin.

        Obviously, the British never did take the bait and Enterprise
Green never occurred.
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
How can you be the communications officer when you aren't communicatin'?
You're more like a military censor!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 13:07:25 -0500
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Obersalzberg Pt 4

Peter E. Beal <[email-masked]> writes:
> On Tue, 14 Mar 1995, COL Donnell, Doug wrote:
>>
>> Among the other outstanding finds was a cache of approximately
>> $4,080,000 in twenty six different currencies.  This was dug up May 23 in
>> a barn near St Johann and was supposed to have been a private fund buried
>> for Heinrich Himmler.
>
> Who got the money?!

        I suspect that Kelly's Heroes swooped in and grabbed it after their
bank heist in Claremont!  :-)
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
I thought I told you to get me a good-lookin'
kid -- not this fat, sausage-chewin' wino!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 12:09:39 -0600
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Seattle Area Sites

American Eagles Hobby Shop is *the* hobby shop in the
  Northwest, for modelmaker, wargamer, and/or historian/
  reader.

Mike, the owner, flew a MiG-15 out of Hungary in the 50s.
  He and his family were personal friends of Adolph Galland.
  We were having a nice conversation, one day, and he mentioned
  how his family had lost all their vast landholdings to the
  Communists, upon the postwar takeover.  I wondered aloud
  why his people hadn't been exterminated as "class enemies."
  The atmosphere chilled a bit, after that, unfortunately.

If you drop by, tell Mike that the (former) Alaska wargame
  designer says "Hi!"  :-)

Lou Coatney, [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 14:25:18 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Soviet operations against Japanese in Manchuria

        Well, I guess this post makes it an appropriate full circle.  Looking
back on the items I saved to paper, I notice that my first lengthy diatribe on
Japan was an outline of Japanese politico-military strategy in which I opined
that fear of the Soviet military potential was a driving force in shaping the
world view of the Japanese Army command.  So it seems somewhat fitting that I
should type the following "sequel" in which the Japanese Army's worst fears
came true in spades, and were shown to be quite valid.  The material force a
mobilized and aroused USSR could deploy against the Japanese in Manchuria was
indeed overwhelming, and terrible to behold (at least from the Japanese point
of view).
        At the Yalta Conference between Stalin, Roosevelt, and Churchill
(February 1945), the Soviets agreed, in response to an American request, to
enter the war against Japan no later than three months after the conclusion of
hostilities in Europe.  Previously the Japanese and the Soviets had been bound
by a mutual neutrality pact which both sides had generally honored, as there
were advantages to both parties (not least of which, on the Soviet side, was
the ability to have ships flying the Russian flag travel unmolested through
Japanese-controlled waters to Soviet Pacific ports carrying Lend-Lease
materials from the US).  In April the Soviet government issued a statement
renouncing the pact, which should have clued the Japanese in to the impending
action of the USSR.  The Japanese, however, continued to try using the services
of the Soviet Union as an intermediary for peace feelers to the west, but
were rebuffed at almost every turn (although this did not completely
disillusion the Japanese diplomats as to their chances of negotiating terms
through the USSR).
        Stalin had been aware of the potential request from the western Allies
to join in their war on Japan, and had the Soviet staff undertake preliminary
studies on the requirements of such a campaign in the fall of 1944.  Concrete
preparations did not however get underway until after Yalta.  They then
proceeded at a fairly intense pace.  Almost immediately upon the surrender of
Germany in May 1945 the Soviet military machine began dedicating almost all of
its energies to the immense redeployment for fighting the Japanese in
Manchuria.  The scope of the undertaking was incredible, especially in terms of
logistic preparations.  The Russians were determined to employ their best
troops, equipment, and commanders to ensure a rapid and successful campaign.
This meant transferring some of their most experienced combat units from the
European theatre clear across Siberia to their new area of operations.  I
earlier said that involved moving troops over 3,000 miles.  Henry Sirotin
pointed out that I underestimated the distance (given off the top of my head)
and he was right-- according to Soviet sources most of the troops redeployed
from Europe had to travel 4,000-5,000 miles, and this included stretches where
for hundreds of miles the railway was a single track.  As Henry said, I'd love
to see the rail schedules for that one.  Nonetheless, the Soviets accomplished
a remarkable feat in moving 39 divisions and brigades, with most of their
equipment, over those immense distances in a space of barely three months.
This stunt was not pulled off without some difficulties.  The United States was
requested (according to Marshal Vasilevsky) to help by shipping a fair
proportion of the motor vehicles and some additional locomotives straight to
the Soviet Pacific ports by sea (thus the Japanese by scrupulously adhering--
for a change-- to their agreements with the Soviets helped to implement the
very build-up which crushed one of their most powerful armies).   Even with
this assistance some motorized units had to detrain and cover up to the last
700 miles to their concentration areas in their own vehicles (and this did not
include the 150-200 miles to the actual front that all units did under their
own power as a tactical movement).  Still, the feat was pretty awe-inspiring.
By July some 136,000 railway cars full of men, weapons, equipment, and supplies
had been shipped.  By the first week of September 1945 1,692 trains had
departed European Russia for the Manchurian theatre.
        For the Soviets meant to hit hard with their best forces.  Because they
expected to fight their way through heavily fortified frontier areas, two
entire armies which had experience in attacking fortified zones were
transferred in their entirety from Prussia.  The elite 5th Guards Tank Army was
pulled from Prague to the Manchurian frontier.  The most capable and highest
ranking commanders were placed in charge of the operation.  The Soviet
commander in the Far East for this operation was Marshal Aleksandr Vasilevsky,
chief of the Soviet general staff and Deputy Commissar for Defense since 1942.
Vasilevsky had personally made an extensive on-the-spot study of the theatre as
early as May, accompanied by a high-powered staff.  Admiral Nikolai Kuznetsov,
chief of the naval staff, was in charge of all naval operations in the Far
East, and Air Marshal Novikov, commander of the Soviet Air Force, was
responsible for all air matters.  These staff arrangements whereby the ranking
officers of each service were given overall command in the Far East were put in
place due to the huge area involved and the distance from Moscow.  Only
Stalin's top military deputies could be entrusted with the relative
independence operations in this theatre would require.
        Material too was first-rate.  As early as April 1945, the Soviets had
sent 670 new T-34 tanks to the Far East (these were the newer model T-34's,
with 85-mm guns and frontal armor 90-mm thick).  A number of the super-heavy
Stalin tanks were also deployed for this operation (122-mm gun; armor
160-200-mm thick: by comparison, the Japanese Chi-Ha tank carried 25-mm [one
inch] of frontal armor, the Chi-He 50-mm, and both mounted a 47-mm gun).  The
air units in the Far East were receiving hundreds of the newest Soviet
aircraft, such as the Lavochkin La-7 fighter, which was considerably faster
than any Japanese fighter plane, had three very fast-firing 20-mm cannon, and
boasted superb dogfighting maneuverability.  By the start of the offensive, the
Soviet forces amounted to one and a half million men, with over 26,000
artillery pieces and heavy mortars, some 5,500 tanks and self-propelled armored
assault guns, and 3,800 aircraft.  Included in the operation, in fact playing
an integral role, was the Soviet Pacific Fleet under Admiral Yumash.  This
naval force had 427 various warships, including two new cruisers which had been
constructed in the east during the war, one flotilla leader, ten regular
destroyers, and 78 submarines.  The Pacific Fleet's air arm totalled over 1,500
planes, and thousands of Russian marines would also participate in the
operation. (NOTE: the cruisers were 8,800 tons, mounting 180-mm [7.1-inch]
guns; a flotilla leader was an extra-large destroyer, the Soviet ships being of
either French or Italian design, coming in at over 3,000 tons, most mounting
five 130-mm guns.  Both the 130-mm and the 180-mm guns were specially developed
by the Soviet Navy and exhibited exceptional range for their calibre).  In
addition to the Soviet forces themselves, the armed forces of the Mongolian
Peoples' Republic under Marshal Choibalsan would also participate.  A special
mixed group of Soviet and Mongolian mechanized units and cavalry would operate
on the right flank of the main thrust against the Japanese.  The Russians also
had the goodwill, if not necessarily the active support, of the Chinese
Communists under Mao, who now controlled areas of northern China inhabited by
some 100 million people, and more or less adjacent to the main theatre of
operations.
        The Japanese Kwantung Army which would absorb most of the blow was no
longer the same elite formation it had been in the 1930's, but it was still a
force to be reckoned with.  Although a number of the best units had been
gradually siphoned off to the south to fight the western allies, the Japanese
still retained 24 divisions in Manchuria alone, and another seven in Korea.  In
numbers, at least, these were still at something like full strength (in fact,
the Japanese had been actively recruiting from Japanese and local civilians to
flesh out their formations).  The Japanese also had eight infantry and one tank
brigade in the Manchurian-Korean theatre of operations.
The Soviets credit the Japanese and allied forces
with a total strength of 900,000 men, possessing 1,000 tanks (this figure would
almost certainly have to include two-man "tankettes" and possibly armored cars
in order to be accurate-- I have not had the opportunity to check these numbers
against the Japanese figures, but will say that the Japanese and Soviet figures
agree almost exactly on the number of Japanese divisions present).  The
Japanese were also reckoned to have 1,800 military aircraft and over 5,000
various pieces of artillery.  The numbers for manpower include the puppet
armies of Manchukuo and Inner Mongolia, reckoned at a strength equal to eight
infantry and seven horse cavalry divisions, plus 14 brigades (including two
horse cavalry).  Except for the one Japanese division and a few smaller units
of the "Mongolia Garrison Army" and perhaps some of the Mongolian cavalry, the
actual combat potential of these allied forces was however negligable, and most
did little if any actual fighting.  Although many of the most experienced
officers and men had long been transferred out of Manchuria to other
battlefields (Marshal Meretskov disingenuously alludes to this as a sort of
training program to get combat experience for the Kwantung Army, as if these
men were later returned to Manchuria-- of course, most were not), at the high
command level the Japanese still had a high degree of experience, starting with
the commander in Manchuria, General Otozo Yamada.  His chief-of-staff, Lt-Gen
Hikosaburo Hata (not to be confused, of course, with Field Marshal Shunroku
Hata, former Japanese commander in China), had previously served as deputy
chief of the Imperial General Staff, and before that, ironically, had been
Japanese military attache in Moscow (BTW, when serving as deputy chief-of-staff
Hata had been on the receiving end of a tirade from Tojo for his "defeatist"
attitude when he correctly predicted to the Prime Minister, after returning
from an inspection tour of the Burma front, that the proposed Imphal offensive
of 1944 would not succeed).
        The physical characteristics of the Manchurian theatre also lent
strength to the Japanese defense.  The province-- roughly equal in size to the
entire US Pacific seaboard of California, Oregon, and Washington--  had been
intensively developed by the Japanese for the past 15 years, and featured
considerable internal communications.  In 1945 there were in Manchuria alone
more than 13,000 miles of roads, almost 7,000 miles of railroad track, and some
400 airfields.  Furthermore, the mining and industries which had been the
object of Japan's occupation of the province gave the Kwantung Army its own
self-contained supply source for most of the items it needed (and the 31
million inhabitants grew a fair amount of food as well).  The geographic
location and shape of Manchuria was less fortunate, as the province projected
like a thick neck between the jaws of Soviet-occupied territory, thus inviting
deep encircling penetrations.  However, the Japanese, with their long-standing
fear of Russian expansionism, had over the years constructed extensive zones of
fortifications covering their frontiers.  There were 17 such fortified zones in
Manchuria proper, each zone covering 12 to 60 miles of frontier, and built up
to a depth of about 25 miles.  Within these zones were mazes of bunkers,
machinegun and artillery emplacements, with reinforced concrete walls three
feet thick, interconnected by underground tunnels, protected by minefields,
tank traps, and other obstacles.  These fortress areas, if avoided, would tend
to split up and dangerously channel any Soviet offensive operations.  But the
Russians, realizing this, decided to tackle several of the fortified zones head
on, and made elaborate preparations for doing so.  There were also four more
fortified zones in northern Korea, and a series of similar fortifications along
the border separating (Russian-occupied) northern and (Japanese) southern
Sakhalin Island.
        Soviet preparations for attacking this in many ways formidable
defensive system included not only the concentration of intimidating masses of
men and weapons, but also considerable training for the operation in question
carried out over a period of two months prior to the assault.  The Soviets
formed special mobile formations to spearhead each direction of advance, made
up entirely of armor, self-propelled artillery, and motorized rifle divisions.
The Red Army and its sister services would demonstrate an impressive mastery of
the art of modern warfare in this campaign, which in addition to its rapid
breaching of strongly fortified defenses and utilization of very large
mechanized formations in mobile operations would feature at least a half-dozen
parachute drops and an even greater number of amphibious landings.  Some times
the conditions prepared for were extremely primitive.  The Trans-Baikal front
on the right wing would have to advance through hundreds of miles of waterless
desert-- for which neither the Chinese nor the Japanese maps available were
accurate-- and then force its way through the Great Khingan mountain range.
        Despite all the elaborate preparations the initial Soviet attack did
not go off as planned.  The first assaults were to be accompanied by massive
artillery preparations against the fortified areas.  Then, as in the Oder
offensive against Berlin, the Soviets were to use searchlights to blind the
defenders as their leading waves attacked by night.  But a driving rain led the
commencement of the barrage to be delayed.  At 1 am on the morning of August
9th the Soviet commanders decided to go ahead despite the rain.  An immediate
advance was ordered, without the artillery preparation, but this turned out
fortuitously as the advantage of surprise allowed the Soviets to quickly
overrun the initial defenses.  The attack, carried out with such overwhelming
forces of men and material, succeeded on virtually every sector.  Soon deep
penetrations of mechanized forces were carving the Kwantung Army into several
isolated pockets.  In the air there was hardly any resistance, and Soviet
planes ranging freely over the battlefield added to the complete mastery the
Russians had in any mobile operations (one can easily imagine how the
occasional confrontations between Russian and Japanese armor turned out).  Many
of the fortified areas nonetheless held out desperately.  The Japanese will to
fight was not necessarily lessened.  The Russians frequently encountered
suicide squads of men with explosives tied to their bodies who threw themselves
under the Soviet tanks and then set off the charges.  In the Dunnin fortified
area the officers agreed to surrender, but were then shot by their own men, who
continued the fight.  Mutankiang, a major road, rail, and administrative
center, was also heavily fortified, and resisted fiercely.  The Japanese
launched several spirited counterattacks in this area before the city fell on
August 16th (Soviet estimates put the Japanese casualties in this fight alone
at 40,000 men).  Note that even the announcement of the Japanese surrender by
the Emporer himself on August 15th did not put an end to the fighting.  General
Yamada issued orders to cease hostilities on the 17th, but even this did not
end the fighting until Lt-Gen Hata met with the Soviets on the 19th.
Hostilities in general ceased on August 20th, but small-scale actions against
surrounded Japanese who wouldn't surrender continued for several days
thereafter.
        I have a few more lines to add but am out of time.  Will finish in a
moment.

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 15:13:51 -0500
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Seattle Area Sites

Lou Coatney writes:

>Mike, the owner, flew a MiG-15 out of Hungary in the 50s.
>  He and his family were personal friends of Adolph Galland.
>  We were having a nice conversation, one day, and he mentioned
>  how his family had lost all their vast landholdings to the
>  Communists, upon the postwar takeover.  I wondered aloud
>  why his people hadn't been exterminated as "class enemies."
>  The atmosphere chilled a bit, after that, unfortunately.

Jeez Lou, Nothing like good old tact and diplomacy, eh? :-)

I wonder if he stands to regain what was taken from his family
now that things have changed over there...

                                                        Steve
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - [email-masked] |"Life may be a drag...
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |    But it sure beats the
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |       only known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 15:30:57 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Soviets in Manchuria (conclusion)

        I was saying (before work interrupted) that neither the official
Japanese surrender on August 15th nor the orders issued by General Yamada on
the 17th and 18th ended the fighting in Manchuria.  The Soviets consider the
campaign to have lasted 24 days (i.e., till Sept 2nd, the same day the official
surrender was signed aboard the MISSOURI in Tokyo bay).  Some Japanese
continued to hold out even after Buddhist monks were sent to try to convince
them to lay down their arms.  The majority, however, began to accept the
inevitable on the 18th or 19th, particularly after Hata's negotiations with the
Soviet command.  These negotiations offer an interesting insight into the
states of mind of both sides.  Hata tried to get the Soviets to allow Japanese
troops to keep their weapons temporarily because the local population was
"unreliable" (a nice indication of how the locals truly felt about being
blessed with membership in the "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere").  The
Russians, for their part, demanded that the Japanese coming in to surrender
bring their field kitchens and foodstuffs with them, an admission that their
prodigious logistics preparations were still far from completely adequate, in
that the Japanese prisoners would at least initially have to feed themselves
(the 6th Guards Tank Army experienced more difficulty due to bad roads and
supply problems than to enemy resistance).  The Soviets also considered the
downcast demeanor of Hata, a small man with a monk-like shaved head, to be an
indication of the thoroughness of the Japanese defeat, contrasting this with
the arrogance they had come to expect in previous dealings with the Japanese.
        Eventually some 594,000 Japanese and puppet troops surrendered to the
Russian forces (including 148 Japanese generals).  Tens of thousands (inluding
a number of Japanese civilian settlers and administrators) vanished into Soviet
prison camps, where over 50,000 remained well into the 1950's (some, of course,
never returned).  The most significant catch was the capture of the Manchurian
puppet emporer, Henry Pu Yi, along with his Japanese advisor General Yoshioka,
by Soviet paratroopers who landed on the airfield at Mukden just as the
would-be ruler's plane was about to take off (this was portrayed exactly as it
happened in the movie "The Last Emporer").
        Just a word, since I've often spoken of Japanese armor, regarding
Japanese self-propelled guns.  These types of vehicles were employed widely by
the Soviets in Manchuria.  The Japanese had also built a few similar vehicles,
but only a few.  Most common were the mounting of either the 75-mm antiaircraft
gun or the 150-mm howitzer behind a large armored shield on a turretless Chi-Ha
or Chi-He chassis, but very few actually saw service.  The Japanese also built
a tiny number of the Type 2 "gun tank," essentially a Chi-He mounting a
short-barrelled 75-mm gun in its turret (designed along the same conception as
the original German Panzer IV).  These began production in 1942, but very few
were made.

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich
into Soviet prison

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 15:03:15 -0500
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: HIST: Strange American desertion ... conclusion

In reading William L. Combs, THE VOICE OF THE SS: A HISTORY OF THE SS JOURNAL
"DAS SCHWARZE KORPS" [Peter Lang, 1986], I came across the bizarre story of
Martin James Monti, native of Florrisant MO, who left post in Karachi in
October 1944 and hitched plane rides to Italy where he stole a P-38
photo-recon plane. He flew to German-occupied territory and gave himself
up. He allegedly then cooperated with the Germans and under the alias of
"Cpt. Martin Wiethaupt" prepared some radio commentaries later broadcast to
American troops. "Supposedly, Monti had acquired SS credentials by the end of
the war when he surrendered at US Fifth Army headquarters in Milan" [p.414].

There's a bit more to this weird tale. Will post if anyone is interested.

-- Warren Thompson

         He was tried by courtmartial and sentenced to fifteen years
         imprisonment for theft of a plane and desertion.  Yet, in January,
         1946, when he was returned to the USA, his sentence was remitted
         and he was allowed to re-enlist in the US Army as a private in
         February, 1946.  When Monti was arrested for treason, he admitted
         making fifteen to twenty broadcasts for the Germans but claimes he
         was under duress of what he termed "subtle threats."
                In July, 1948, Judge Harold M. Kennedy, Brooklyn Federal
         Court, denied a motion to dismiss the charges against Monti and
         refused to set bail for him.  Monti's attorney, Lloyd Paul
         Stryker, again requested bail in October, 1948, but the plea was
         denied by Judge Matthew T. Abruzzo.  At that time Special
         Assistant Attorney General Victor C. Woerheide argued against
         setting bail on the grounds that Monti would be likely to flee the
         country.  Styker did persuade Federal Judge Leo F. Rayfiel to send
         Monti to Kings County Hospital "for observation" in December,
         1948.  After three weeks of "mental observation" Monti was
         returned to teh Federal House of Detention and his trial was
         scheduled for January 17 at the Federal Court in Brooklyn.
                Monti's trial was to take place about the same time as
         those of Mildred Gillars ("Axis Sally") and Herbert John Burgman,
         both of whom were accused of broadcasting propaganda for the
         Germans, but the Justice Department indicated that Monti's trial
         might be delayed until witnesses from Germany arrived.  A treason
         conviction required two witnesses of each overt act.  The three
         witnesses being brought to the USA were Hans van Richter, Herman
         Rockmann and "Gunther d'Alquen".  The newspaper report mentioned
         that Rockmann and d'Alquen had appeared before the grand jury that
         indicted Monti.  They were expected to testify that Monti had
         sought membership in the SS and had been given an SS officer's
         uniform.
                Monti's trial was not delayed, so the witnesses apparently
         had arrived by January 17.  The trial, presided over by Judge
         Robert A. Inch, was something of a surprise.  Monti confessed to
         twenty-one overt acts of treason in open court and was sentenced
         to twenty-five years in prison and a fine of $10,000.  Among other
         things he admitted to holding the rank of lieutenant in the SS
         Kurt Eggers Standarte, the SS propaganda unit of which d'Alquen
         was the commander.
                In January, 1949, Lloyd Paul Stryker filed an appeal to the
         Circuit Court to have Monti's sentence set aside.  He argued that
         Monti's constitutional protection against double jeopardy had been
         violated.  The motion was rejected.  Two years later Monti
         attempted to have his guilty plea nullified.  Judge Inch ordered
         him returned to Brooklyn from Leavenworth for the hearing.  Monti
         testified that he had no treasonable intent when he had made his
         wartime broadcasts.  Moreover, he charged that his former lawyer,
         Stryker, had coerced him to plead guilty.  He also denied having
         sought entry into the SS.  Judy Inch refused to permit Monti to
         change his plea nad stand trial.  Monti appealed Inch's ruling,
         but apparently failed in his efforts.
                The evidence shows that Gunter d'Alquen was indeed in the
         USA in 1948 for Monti's trial.  He may also have come to the USA
         for the grand Jury investigation that led to Monti's indictment.
         It does not appear that d'Alquen was giving the State Department
         propaganda advice as was being charged in Europe.  Why the FBI was
         so reluctant to release this information without an appeal under
         the Freedom of Information Act is hard to surmise.  What is,
         perhaps, most surprising of all, is that the FBI did not place
         d'Alquen under surveillance when he traveled to the USA in the
         1930's.

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 14:45:48 -0600
From:    "William L. Huber - SAA" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: HIST: A strange American desertion

> In reading William L. Combs, THE VOICE OF THE SS: A HISTORY OF THE SS JOURNAL
> "DAS SCHWARZE KORPS" [Peter Lang, 1986], I came across the bizarre story of
> Martin James Monti.....

> There's a bit more to this weird tale. Will post if anyone is interested.
>
> -- Warren Thompson

I am!  Where did you come across that book too?  I gotta find that
one.

Cheers, Bill Huber / [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 16:25:36 -0400
From:    John Baxter Jones <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TACTICAL AFTERTHOUGHTS

** Regretfully, we need only to look at the tone set in Washington by the
current residents of the White House regarding their attitudes toward the
military and/or any military achievements of the past.  I felt sick in
the pit of my stomach when Clinton went to Europe to commemorate the
brave endeavors of the allied military units on D-Day, June 6, 1944.
When he laid a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, I wanted to
throw up knowing that this man had not the faintest idea of the
sacrifices made by the truly brave men and women who fought in both
theaters of the war.  If the U.S. government under this kind of
leadership(?) had made *any other* decision other than to mollify the
Japanese as opposed to standing firm for our veterans' achievements, I
would have been even more surprised.
     In a world that is even more dangerous now than prior to the demise
of the former U.S.S.R. (very real threat of civil war<s> on east
European/west Asian continental area), the administration has seen fit to
reduce our military to a status that is so weak and unweildly as to be
almost laughable.  The hearts of the military personnel in today's
service is as strong as ever, but their (gag) "commander in chief" has
seen fit to starve their abilities due to a misguided, head-in-the-sand,
"feel-good" attitude regarding the realities of the very real postential
for armed conflict in foreign lands.  Nuff said!

John Jones
dau tieng '67--'68

On Tue, 7 Mar 1995, Robert T. Moore wrote:

> Hello, Ben!
>
> I wholeheartedly agree with your comment below!
>
> What agenda does the government have to try and "play down" what the
> vets tried so hard to accomplish? To me this is back-stabbing of the
> worst sort.
>
> Thanks for the post and allowing my two cents' worth on this.
>
> All the best.
>
> Terry
>
> > "...Washington has assured Tokyo that U.S. government representatives at
> > commemorative events will avoid using the traditional term "V-J Day," short for
> > "Victory-over-Japan Day, to describe the end of the Pacific War. Instead, all
> > American material will simply refer to the "end of the war." I am absolutely
> > appalled and totally pissed off at this pusillanimous action on the part of the
> > government. It is an insult to all veterans of the Pacific War, living and
> > dead, and I call upon the members of this list to take whatever action is
> > within their limits to sound off on the matter. When I cool down sufficiently,
> > I intend writing a letter to the Post. Whether it is published, is another
> > story. An accompany article is headed: "V-J Day Passe in P.C. Era." What a
> > crock! Ben Frank, spring loaded in a pissed off position.
> >
>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 16:31:27 -0500
From:    "Douglas S. Bohannon" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Intro and questions

Hello all,

My name is Doug Bohannon.

My primary interests are WWII military history but I do read about other
eras.

I am especially interested in PT Boat history in WWII.

I collect WWII edged weapons as well as other military items and I am looking
for PT Boat items.

I have also been involved with historical war gaming in miniatures for over
16 years.

Is acceptable to advertise to sell or purchase military collectables,
including vehicles, on this list?

Is there a Militaria collectors List?

Is there a Military Vehicles Collectors list?

If any one has any quesitons or comments, please email me at

[email-masked]

Thanks.

Doug Bohannon

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 16:46:44 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Soviets/Manchuria

        Gee, if I wasn't holding down two jobs AND playing drums in a working
band I'd have a lot more time for this.  Anyway, the unconscionable nerve of
these people here at the library-- who actually expect me to work on THEIR
stuff while I'm on the clock instead of playing with the free e-mail they
provide me-- forced me to break off again just short of tidy conclusions.  So a
few final points.
        I wanted to mention that the Soviet offensive actions also included the
overruning of Korea down to the 38th parallel (the previously-agreed
demarcation line) and also the capture of southern Sakhalin island and the
Kuriles.  It was primarily the operations in Korea which prolonged the fighting
into September.  I also wanted to clarify, in my reference to the handfull of
self-propelled gun mounts produced by the Japanese, that these vehicles (except
for the tiny quantity of the Type 2 tank) differed from most of the far more
numerous Soviet SU series self-propelled guns.  The latter were (except for the
early SU-76) true "assault guns," completely enclosed and protected by thick
armor-- i.e., tanks without turrets.  The Japanese vehicles, with the exception
noted above, were more geared to providing mobility to the gun in question than
with producing a true armored fighting vehicle.  At any rate, there were so few
of them made that the point is virtually moot.
        Finally, I wanted to note that my sources, primarily due to ease of
acquisition and lack of time, are almost exclusively from the Soviet side.
Mostly I used the accounts by Vasilevsky in "Main Front: Soviet Leaders Look
Back On World War 2" and Kyril Meretskov in "Soviet Generals Recall World War
II." (Meretskov commanded the Soviet 1st Far Eastern Front which drove into the
heart of Manchuria)  I also referred to Hayashi, "Kogun" for Japanese
dispositions and Stephen Boyd, "The Soviet Air Force" for details of the air
preparations.
        Finally, I wanted to note that several of the top Japanese officials
did state after the war (as the Soviets triumphantly proclaimed) that the
Soviet operations in Manchuria, not the dropping of the atomic bombs, were the
decisive actions that led to the final decision to surrender.  In large part
this was because until the Russians commenced active hostilities many Japanese
still nursed the ill-placed hope that they could still negotiate acceptable
peace terms (short of unconditional surrender) through the offices of the
"neutral" USSR.  When these hopes were dashed, simultaneously with another
catastrophic military defeat, and the long-feared Russian threat in addition
became a terrible reality, the inevitability of Japan's defeat was brought home
to many (but still not all) in the upper echelons of government.  (see Toland,
"Rising Sun," among others)

        Regards (and hope this answers some of the recent questions)

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 17:26:31 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA:Return to Iwo Jima

>From the DoD Newswire 14 March 1995

:VETERANS DESCEND ON IWO JIMA

   IWO JIMA, Japan -- American soldiers and sailors who 50 years
ago fought one of the most ferocious battles of World War II returned
Tuesday to this island whose name has become synonymous with war.
   This time, they were here to remember, not to fight.
   "I feel a lot different coming here now than when we came ashore
in an assault landing 50 years ago," said Chester Foulke, 71, of Las
Vegas, soon after stepping off a chartered Boeing 727, which arrived
from Saipan.
   Foulke fought on Iwo Jima as a demolitions expert in the 5th
Marine Division.
   "But I have no qualms about coming here again," he said. "You have
good memories and bad memories. You have to deal with them both."
   The U.S. military has spent the past month prettying up the tiny
Pacific island. Some 880 U.S. veterans of the battle and their
families were to meet 110 Japanese survivors and their families later
in the day.
   "I still feel a little funny," said Charles Lindberg, 71, also a
veteran of the 5th Marine Division, of the planned get-together
between former foes. "But those things, well, you have to let go of
them. Maybe meeting them will help."
   Most of the veterans were dressed in street clothes and white
commemorative baseball caps. A few had medals pinned to their chests.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        [email-masked]
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 17:30:49 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA:Wreath Laying Ceremony

>From the DoD Newswire 14 March 1995

:PRINCE CHARLES LAYS WORLD WAR TWO WREATH IN EGYPT

    CAIRO, March 13 - Britain's Prince Charles laid a wreath
on Monday at a war cemetery in northern Cairo, burial place of
hundreds of Allied soldiers killed in World War Two.
     The prince, in full military uniform, observed a minute's silence
and then walked among the graves of some 1,800 soldiers from British
and Commonwealth forces at the cemetery in the Cairo suburb of
Heliopolis.
     Charles, on a five-day trip to Egypt, then inspected a drill
display given by cadets at the nearby Egyptian Military Academy.
     He was due to fly later to Sinai to visit Saint Catherine's, a
Greek Orthodox monastery founded in the sixth century AD. The
monastery is at the foot of Mount Sinai, where the prophet Moses
received the Ten Commandments.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        [email-masked]
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-3678
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-3678

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 18:12:49 -0400
From:    Sam Lashlee <[email-masked]>
Subject: HOME:FRANCE - "une victoire intellectualle"

My name is Sam Lashlee.  I am a 21 year old student (part-time) and
employee (full-time) at Vassar College in Poughkeepsie, NY.  My father is
Malcolm Lashlee.  He was a member of the 44th Tank Battallion C division
during WWII.  During the War, he was hit by a grenade in the leg, and the
shrapnel from the grenade remains there today.  His battallion has reunions
yearly.  I believe this year's will be in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina in
October.  When I have more information about that, I will post it.

Enough about me...The reason I am writing is that I am a history buff.  I
have done extensive research on my family tree, and am considering changing
my major from computer science to History (if there were more jobs in that
field, it would be easier to change).

Anyway, I am currently taking a history class -
History of France and Southern Europe since 1918

We are currently learning about "The Strange Defeat" of France (or "une
victoire intellectuelle...") as Bloch describes it.  I am interested in
writing a paper on this subject, and hope that someone out there has some
first-hand (or second-hand , or even third-hand) information that could help
me.  The Strange Defeat is the way Bloch describes the German victory over
France in May-June 1940.  I would appreciate any and all help.

My email address is
[email-masked]

I will probably be posting more often over the next few weeks.  I hope that
I can find a lot of help on this board.

Thanks

Sam

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 19:03:30 -0500
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: ADMIN: POLITICAL AFTERTHOUGHTS

        Discussion of the current administration's attitude and budget
decisions toward the military are not within the charter of this mailing
list.  Discussing one's involuntary body functions as a result of watching
President Clinton at various commemoration ceremonies is also discouraged.
Please keep messages sent to this mailing list relevant to WWII.  Thanks.
--
Joe Barone, WWII-L listowner
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 15 Mar 1995 12:32:23 +1100
From:    Brent McCunn <[email-masked]>
Subject: Soviet invasion of Sth Sakhalin

Does anyone know of any sources that mention the operation of moving the
invasion troops for South Sakhalin Island from Komsomolsk to Vanino on
the 1945 complted single track railway. I am nearly finished a guidebook
to this area and would like to include any stories about this in the
history of this line.
Athol Yates, Canberra, Australia

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 20:26:09 +0000
From:    George Bowman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TACTICAL AFTERTHOUGHTS

I agree with te opinion that V-J should be used.  I was a Viet Nam era
vet.  Never got near the place but I was a real live air force vol. and
proud of it.  The fact that we one WWII and the fact that we were right
gives us the right to use V-E or V-J any time or place that we see fit.

George Bowman
Transportation Supervisor
Elmira City School Dist.
FAX: 607-735-3959

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 20:42:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 15 MAR 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 15 MARCH 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-26, Douglas Invader
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  F-6, North American Mustang
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang
  Spitfire, Vickers Supermarine

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): 1 B-24 flies air coverage for a naval task
force; 7 others weather-abort.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): 4 B-24s claim 1 vessel sunk in the S
China Sea. In China, 4 B-25s hit the area E of Pingsiang; 4 P-51s hit
locomotives between Sinsiang and Shihkiachwang and 4 attack motor transport
in the Paotou area.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 30 P-47s support elements
of the Chinese 50th Division in the Namhsan area; 32 P-38s sweep roads S of
the bomb line. Transports fly 625 sorties to forward areas.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
  Mission 889: 1,353 bombers and 833 fighters are dispatched to hit German
Army HQ and a marshalling yard at Oranienburg; they claim 1-0-0 Luftwaffe
aircraft; 9 bombers and 4 fighters are lost:
  1. 308 of 372 B-24s and 276 of 300 B-17s hit the Germany Army HQ at Zossen,
near Berlin visually; targets of opportunity for the B-24s are the Gardlingen
rail center (31), the rail bridge at Parey (11) and other (3) and for B-17s,
the marshalling yard at Stendal (13) and other (3); 1 B-24 is lost, 1 B-24 is
damaged beyond repair and 32 B-24s and 20 B-17s are damaged; 4 airmen are
KIA, 8 WIA and 21 MIA. Escorting are 397 P-51s and P-47s; they claim 1-0-0
aircraft in the air; 3 P-51s are lost (pilots MIA).
  2. 612 of 675 B-17s attack the marshalling yard at Oranienburg visually;
targets of opportunity are Wittenberg (31), Havelberg (12), the marshalling
yards at Durstadt (1) and Mellendorf (1), Schmarsau (1) and Dedelstorf
Airfield (1) some of which are hit with H2X radar; 8 B-17s are lost, 1
damaged beyond repair and 288 damaged; 8 airmen are WIA and 66 MIA. 320 of
352 P-51s escort; 1 is lost.
  3. 6 B-17s fly a screening mission without loss.
  4. 29 of 30 P-51s fly a scouting mission.
  5. 9 P-51s fly a sweep of the Bonn-Koblenz area.
  6. 9 of 12 P-51s escort 24 F-5s and 4 Spitfires on photo reconnaissance
missions over Germany.
  Mission 890: 14 of 16 B-24s bomb the rail station at Munster during the
night using PFF methods.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In Germany, 9th Bombardment Division
A-20s, A-26s, and B-26s attack communications centers at Neunkirchen and
Pirmasens, marshalling yards at Turkismuhle and Erbach, 3 flak positions, and
several other targets, as well as dropping leaflets on Koblenz; fighters hit
the Overberge marshalling yard and other targets, escort the bombers, fly
sweeps and armed reconnaissance, and support the US XII Corps crossing the
Mosel River in an offensive toward the Rhine River, and the XX Corps E of
Trier and Saarbrucken. HQ 10th Photographic Group (Reconnaissance) and the
15th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron move from Doncourt Airfield, Conflans
and Giraumont, France respectively to Evren Airfield, Trier, Germany with
F-6s; the 393d and 394th Fighter Squadrons, 367th Fighter Group, move from St
Dizier to Conflans, France with P-47s; and the 411th Fighter Squadron, 373d
Fighter Group, moves from Le Culot, Belgium to Venlo, the Netherlands with
P-47s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Germany, 109 B-17s bomb the
oil refinery at Ruhland (marking the Fifteenth's deepest penetration into
Germany). 103 others bomb the alternate target, the refinery at Kolin,
Czechoslovakia. 470+ other bombers attack targets in Austria, including
Moosbierbaum, Schwechat, and Vienna/Floridsdorf oil refineries, marshalling
yards at Wiener-Neustadt, Sankt Polten, Graz, Bruck an der Mur, Klagenfurt,
and Murzzuschlag, and a bridge at Klagenfurt. Supply missions to N Italy and
Yugoslavia continue, along with extensive photo and weather reconnaissance.
Fighters fly 300+ sorties in escort of the bombers and supply and
reconnaissance flights.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s attack railroad
bridges and fills at Salzano, Canale d'Isonzo, Rovereto, Palazzolo
sull'Oglio, Romano di Lombardia, and Mori; fighters and fighter-bombers of
the XXII Tactical Air Command concentrate on communications lines in NE
Italy, particularly the Brenner rail line, and also blast several supply and
ammunition dumps; A-20s continue intruder missions during the night of 14/15
Mar, hitting Po River crossings and fills in the San Ambrogio di Valpolicella
area.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA (Seventh Air Force): 8 Guam Island-based B-24s bomb Susaki Airfield
on Chichi Jima Island; 3 more, on snooper strikes, hit the airfield during
the night of 15/16 Mar.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: In support of US
ground forces on Luzon Island, B-24s, A-20s, and P-38s hit a HQ area at
Baguio; P-47s hit Minuli bridge and enemy concentrations in the Balete Pass
and W of Ft Stotsenburg; and A-20s and P-47s hit gun positions and occupied
areas around Batangas. On Mindanao Island, B-24s and B-25s hit personnel N of
Saragani Bay and troops and gun positions in the Zamboanga area. B-24s bomb
Lahug on Cebu Island. P-47s dive-bomb Takao power installations on Formosa.
HQ 22d Bombardment Group (Heavy) and the 19th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy)
move from Samar Island to Clark Field, Luzon with B-24s; the 100th
Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 42d Bombardment Group (Medium), moves from
Sansapor, New Guinea to Palawan Island with B-25s; the 403d Bombardment
Squadron (Heavy), 43d Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves from Tacloban, Leyte
Island to Clark Field, Luzon with B-24s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

15/0140Z MAR

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 20:57:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TAC: Enterprise Green

Yesterday, Joe Barone sent this very interesting article:

 >        In August and September 1940, while a large German force was being
 >assembled in the Channel ports to invade England, a smaller force was also
 >being assembled for a similar operation.  The target of this force was
 >Ireland and the Germans showed uncharacteristic irony when they named the
 >operation Enterprise Green.
 >
 >        German interests in Ireland lay in several considerations.  First,
 >the Luftwaffe could operate over every square mile of England, Wales, and
 >Scotland (as well as Northern Ireland) from airfields in Ireland.  This
 >would have had a significant impact on the Battle of Britain since the
 >western sanctuaries used by the RAF would now have been targets.  E-boats
 >and U-boats would have had easier access to the Irish Sea, increasing the
 >interdiction of British supplies and placing a further strain on the Royal
 >Navy.  Further, Great Britain would have had a more difficult time
 >anticipating an invasion since it could have come from the west as well
 >as the south.
 >
 >        The Germans also hoped to use the Irish government's foreign
 >policy to expedite the invasion.  The Irish armed forces numbered less
 >than 8,000 regulars with another 4,300 poorly equipped reservists with
 >no tanks and 16 obsolete aircraft.

Well, if truth be known, on 1 Sep 40, the Irish Army Air Corps had 47
aircraft as follows (the month and year of delivery is shown in
parenthesis):

COMBAT EFFECTIVE (????)
-----------------------
7 Avro 652A Anson Mk I's (Mar 37, Jan 38, Feb 39)
6 Westland Lysander Mk I's (Jul 39)
3 Gloster Gladiator Mk I's (Mar 38)
3 Supermarine VS236 Walrus Mk I's (Mar 39)

TRANSPORT
---------
1 deHavilland DH 84 Dragon 2 (Mar 37)

TRAINERS
--------
15 Miles M14A Magister's (Feb and Mar 39 and Jun 40)
 5 Avro 631 Cadets (Mar 32 and Sep 34)
 4 Hawker Hinds (Jun 40)
 2 Avro 636's (Oct 35)
 1 Avro 626 (Apr 34)

Serial numbers of these aircraf and their fate are available on request.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 21:15:30 EST
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 15-MAR-1945

On 15-MAR-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the U.S. 1st Army sector, the 9th Division takes
Lorscheid and Notscheid. The 99th Division expands its bridgehead over the
Rhine to the east and southeast. In the 3rd Army sector, the 87th Division
is preparing to cross the Moselle in the Koblenz sector. The XII and XX
Corps continue to advance. Operation Undertone is launched by the 7th Army.
The goal of this offensive is to make a clear breach in the Siegfried Line
and working with the 3rd Army to liberate the Saar-Palatinate triangle
between the rivers Rhine, Moselle and Lauter-Saar.

Eastern Front - The German pocket in East Prussia is split as troops of the
3rd White Russian Front break through to the coast southwest of
Koenigsberg.

Philippines - The 32nd Division continues hard fighting on the Villa Verde
Trail. The XI Corps, with the new mission of attacking the center of the
Shimbu line, takes over the XIV Corps zone east and northeast of Manila.
XIV Corps has penetrated the outer positions of the Japanese in the
Montalban-Antipolo area. In the 8th Army sector, the Panay invasion force
sails from Luzon.

Iwo Jima - The 3rd and 4th Marine Divisions further reduce pockets of
resistance within their sectors. The 5th Marine Division gains 400 yards on
the right and 200 in the center. Naval support ceases.

Burma - The Indian 17th Division continues to hold out in Meiktila although
still isolated and dependent upon air supply.

The Homefront
-------------
Academy Awards - The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences has
announced the following awards: best film - "Going My Way", best actor -
Bing Crosby in "Going My Way", best actress - Ingred Bergman in "Gaslight".

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                           | [email-masked]
Cary, North Carolina                 | http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 22:07:44 -0500
From:    "Douglas S. Bohannon" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW II List subscription info

Joe,

Thanks for the info on armored vehicles.

One other question.

What is this lists policy on advertising?

Thanks again,

Doug

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 22:20:54 -0500
From:    Scott C Stathis <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW II List subscription info

>
> Joe,
>
> Thanks for the info on armored vehicles.
>
> One other question.
>
> What is this lists policy on advertising?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Doug
>

       Speaking for myself Doug I don't mind it as long as its WWII related.
However I'm sure that Joe has the final word. You out there Joe?

Scott Stathis
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 22:51:35 -0500
From:    Jodi Berls <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Mush Morton

John Riegsecker wrote:

> Nimitz provided an affidavit stating that, on orders from
Washington, submarines under his command had conducteed the same sort of
warfare

     Gee, a few more actions like that one, and we wouldn't have been having
this discussion! :-)
     Maybe I'm slightly prejudiced, being a (transplanted) Texan myself, but
I've always thought there was much about Nimitz to respect. I seem to recall
having read somewhere that Nimitz was one of the few commanders who privately
expressed some displeasure to Mush Morton, though like the others he made no
public statement. I can't locate an authenticating source for that one,
however, and it may be a case of Swiss-cheese memory or some movie scene
floating around in the back of my mind. I suppose a private reprimand is
better than nothing, and it would explain why Morton didn't make any effort
to repeat his attacks on survivors in subsequent patrols.

Jodi Berls
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 22:51:38 -0500
From:    Jodi Berls <[email-masked]>
Subject: Doenitz

While we're still on the subject of Karl Doenitz (or before we get too far
off it), can someone please recommend a good biography of him? I also would
be interested in a similar work about Otto "the tonnage king" Kretschmer, if
there is one.

Jodi Berls
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 22:55:45 -0500
From:    Jodi Berls <[email-masked]>
Subject: QUES: Mountbatten pink

A modeler friend of mine recently asked me about a color scheme involving
"Mountbatten pink." I couldn't find anything in my stuff, but my guess was
that it might have been a color used in so-called dazzle camouflage paint
applied to warships. Beats me whether that's actually true or not -- I based
it on a) Mountbatten having been a destroyer officer for at least part of the
war and b) the painting on the back of my copy of *Jane's Fighting Ships of
World War II* shows a vessel painted in dazzle with patches on it that appear
to be -- believe it or not -- pink.

Does anybody know what "Mountbatten pink" would have been used for? What kind
of pink was it -- salmon? Light pink? More like fuschia?

Jodi Berls
[email-masked]

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 13 Mar 1995 to 14 Mar 1995
*************************************************