Subject: WWII-L Digest - 21 Mar 1995 to 22 Mar 1995

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:03:22 -0500

There are 28 messages totalling 1119 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Hitler's Uniform On Display
  2. No Subject
  3. midget sub at Pearl Harbor
  4. Bachstelze and another question...
  5. PS on midget sub at Pearl Harbor
  6. INF: USN Chronology 03-22-95
  7. General James H. Howard
  8. Glacier Girl Photographs
  9. NEWS: Wuerzburg's Residenz
 10. Oops
 11. Victoire Intellectuelle
 12. Russian Mechanized Corps in 1941 (2)
 13. Operation Petticoat (2)
 14. Re[2]: Hitler's Uniform On Display
 15. Naval Fraternity Wild Sea Horses??
 16. HITLER'S UNIFORM O
 17. ADMIN: HITLER'S UNIFORM (2)
 18. General - WWII Ghost Stories
 19. Japan, China, and Manchuria posts
 20. Jap Atroc & R U an American
 21. MEDIA: VJ Day
 22. Ding Hao!
 23. [INF] USAAF 23 MAR 45
 24. INF: 50 Years Ago - 23-MAR-1945
 25. Chechniya in World War II

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:03:31 -0500
From:    Jodi Berls <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Hitler's Uniform On Display

Chuck Weckesser wrote:

> This exhbit has crossed the line of good taste. It should be stopped.

Whose good taste? The problem with kind of limitation to a historical display
you are suggesting is that it assumes some objective definition of "good
taste" is possible or desirable, and I don't think it is either. To a
holocaust revisionist, the flowers placed at the crematorium in the Auschwitz
museum to honor the victims no doubt are not in "good taste."

I also would argue that for all those who may be titillated by the display,
there are many more who will see it for what it is. My husband's family in
Poland, the eldest of whom spent most of the war in forced labor camps, still
live near Auschwitz and still give money to museum regularly, despite the
horrors it recalls for them. They don't want anyone ever to forget, and I
think the best way to ensure we don't forget is to put the whole bloody mess
right out there on display.

Including Hitler's uniform.

Jodi Berls
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:03:35 -0500
From:    Jodi Berls <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: No Subject

Kelvin Luther wrote:

> 1.  Has anyone heard of the Bachstelze and it's usage.  Apparently > it was
a rarely used kite like apparatus with a platform towed >behind a U-boat. An
observer would be up on the platform looking >for targets!  From what little
I have read it was used only in the >South Atlantic.

Personally, I wouldn't want to be the person on the kite if the boat had to
dive suddenly. (Yikes!) I seem to have a vague recollection of having read
something about this, but the only source I can put my hands on at the moment
is *World War II: Strange and Fascinating Facts* by McCombs and Worth, which
describes it pretty much the same way you did. None of the rest of my usual
sources mentions it at all. Of all the cockemamie things they tried, this one
pretty much takes the cake. One of the advantages of being in a U-boat, after
all, is that it's hard to see a conning tower at any range; but you put up a
kite big enough to hold a sailor and you've blown that. I guess it's a measure
 of how badly the U-boat arm needed air reconnaissance, which they clearly
weren't going to get from Goering.

If you gather any other information about this, I hope you'll share it. My
info on South Atlantic submarine operations is fairly sparse, and I'd
appreciate any leads you can offer.

> 3.  I have read a short account of the USS Antares, a repair ship >that
spotted a Japanese midget submarine trying to follow it into >Pearl through
the anti-sub nets on the morning of Dec. 07.  It was >apparently sunk at 6:45
AM by the USS Ward.

Morison, in *The Two-Ocean War* (and doubtless in *History of United States
Naval Operations in World War II* as well, though that's not right in front
of me at the moment), writes about this incident. He doesn't mention the
*Antares* but says that the USS *Condor* sighted a midget sub and passed the
word to *Ward*, which later sank what was believed to be the same midget at
6:45 a.m. after it had been sighted again by a Catalina on patrol. (Morison
says this was about three hours after the first sighting by the *Condor*.) A
PBY later sank another midget sub near the entrance to the harbor. Others
probably can provide you with information as what state of alert the *Ward*
may have been in, with respect to with what authority she had (or didn't
have) to fire on the midget.

Cheers.

Jodi Berls
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 21 Mar 1995 20:31:31 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <[email-masked]>
Subject: midget sub at Pearl Harbor

I'll add to this as I concur with Chuck's reply.  The sinking of the
midget sub by the Ward and assisted by a PBY  (sea plane) was reported to
the duty officer and Admiral Kimmel.  there was confusion with the
report, as it was not clear to the duty officer if the Ward had actually
sited a submarine or just fired on a sonar contact.  By the time it was
being cleared up, and reported to the Admiral, the planes were over head.

The fleet was on alert for submarine attack and standing orders had been
issued previously that all unidentifed submarine contacts in Hawaiian
waters were to be treated as hostile and  sunk.  It was suspected that
Japanese submarines had been operating in the area.  So, it was not true
that the fleet was asleep at Pearl Harbor as some of the movies, etc.
glamorize.  The Navy was on alert, but it was protecting against a
different tactic (not an air assault).  It was because of the submarine
threat why the fleet was kept in a protective harbor where "normal" size
submarines could not penetrate (midget submarines were not known about).
A net was stretch across the harbor entrance to prevent a long shot from
a torpedo launched outside.

By coincidence today at work I was talking to two Pearl Harbor survivors
that were on a ocean going tug.  As they were leaving the harbor early
that morning (a couple of hours before the attack) these two sailors were
standing on the deck.  They saw a submarine entering the harbor, assumed
it was US, and didn't bothering reporting it to any one.  It was not
until later, much later as a couple of months ago when they were talking
about it that they realized this was one of the midget Japanese
submarines entering the harbor.  Their recollection was this was before
the Ward sank one of the subs.  So prey tell, if they had realized what
they were looking at and reported it to the OOD?...

aloha

****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       [email-masked]
Cultural Resource Manager
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS       (808) 422-2771  extension 130
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

On Tue, 21 Mar 1995, Chuck McCormick wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Mar 1995, Kelvin Brent Luther wrote:
>
> > 3.  I have read a short account of the USS Antares, a repair ship that
> > spotted a Japanese midget submarine trying to follow it into Pearl
> > through the anti-sub nets on the morning of Dec. 07.  It was apparently
> > sunk at 6:45 AM by the USS Ward.  As  the first bombs dropped at 7:55
> > does  anyone know if the account is accurate.  Can you then explain the
> > sinking as the US was not yet at war.  I would think that a sub
> > attempting to enter Pearl would itself been seen as a hostile act and
> > perhaps this was reason enough.  If this is the case was there a delay in
> > reporting the incident?  I do not want to prompt Pearl Harbor
> > conspiracy theories and do not subscribe to them but if
> > this is a true account it would be interesting to know what happened.
>
> It is generally considered a bad idea to try to enter a US Navy Port,
> unauthorized, at night, in a submerged submarine.  If you were to try such a
> stunt today you might find your boat depth-charged, or worse.  Whether
> there is a war declared or not is immaterial.
>
> The Ward did report the attack on the midget sub to the Base Officer
> on duty and I believe the report was passed on, perhaps even to Adm.
> Kimmel.  The problem was that everyone had 'war jitters' and reports of
> enemy subs occured frequently.  I think other USN ships had depth-charged
> what they though were unidentified subs in the Hawaiian Islands previous
> to December 7th.  Also, just because one midget sub tried to sneak into
> the harbor in the middle of the night does not mean that a suprise air
> attack is going to happen within hours!
>
> By the way, the Ward was crewed by Naval Reservists from St. Paul,
> Minnesota.  The former crewmen of the Ward formed a club called the
> 'first shot club' after the war and I think that the 5" gun that fired
> the first US shots in WWII sits someplace near the State Capitol Building
> in ST. Paul.
>
> The best source on events leading up to and including Pearl Harbor is "At
> Dawn We Slept" by Gordon Prange.
>
> Chuck
> [email-masked]
>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:49:54 +0200
From:    Erik Scheuermann <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bachstelze and another question...

Hi,

As far as I remember, the "Bachstelze" was build by Focke Achgelis and was
a non motorized Gyrocopter intended for spotter duties on submarines.
It was to be trailed by a sub using the subs speed and the wind to drive
it's rotor to generate the neccesary lift. Comunication was done via an
attached telephone line. The idea itself was quite an interresting on with
a notable bug, and that was getting rid of the Bachstelze should it spot
something. Hauling it aboard again and storeing it away took quite some time
cutting the line was easier and faster. Quite expectable that there weren't
so many ready to volunteer as spotter ;). As far as I know it saw only very
limited use, later there also was a powered marine 'copter version.
All this was written from my faulty memory, so please excuse any blatant
mistakes, my books aren't accesible at the moment.

I also have a question to throw into discussion. How did these early radar
systems react to the british Mosquito, this thing was buils mainly from
laminated wood (over a geodatic metall construction as far as I remember)
and therefore it should have had a rather small radar cross section, especialy
considering the rather crude devices back than. What about other designs?
Thanx a lot in advance for any enlightning.

                                                So long

                                                        Erik

        [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:02:04 -1000
From:    Jim Adams <[email-masked]>
Subject: PS on midget sub at Pearl Harbor

I meant to add to my post on the midget sub attack on Pearl
Harbor, a
much more complete account of the midget  sub attack as
well as the
entire submarine strategy against Pearl Harbor can be found
in *Advance
Force Pearl Harbor* by Burl Burlingame, Pacific Monograph
(1992).

****************************************************************************
Jim Adams                       [email-masked]
Cultural Resource Manager
USS Arizona Memorial, NPS       (808) 422-2771  extension 130
1 Arizona Memorial Place
Honolulu, Hawaii 96818
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 04:00:11 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 03-22-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
03/22 Thu.  United States naval vessel damaged:
             LST 727, by grounding, Iwo Jima area,
              24 d. 46'N., 141 d. 19'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 04:20:27 -0500
From:    Tripp Alyn <[email-masked]>
Subject: General James H. Howard

I was saddened to note the passing of General Howard.  I had spoken to
him almost a year ago after learning that he was in Florida.  He had
been my cousin's squadron commander in the 356 FS of the 354th FG, the
Pioneer Group which was the first squadron of P-51s in the 9thAF and the
first Mustang Group in the ETO.  Pete Hardiman, the National President of
the P-51 ownerss assn., knew the general and provided the contact.
        For those who are interested....General Howard wrote ROAR OF THE
TIGER (940.5449 HOW) and you will find some interesting accounts of the
AVG and the 354th FG/356th FS.  BTW the Discovery channel has an aviation
hardware program named WINGS and on the segment covering the P-51 they
have some films of Ding Hao A-AJ on its takeoff roll.  They also have
some shots of the Bonnie B which was Don Beerbower's Mustang.  Don was
the top ace of the 9thAF at the time of his loss in May, 1944.  He was
on a mission to strafe a French airfield and was hit by concentrated
ground fire....he pulled up and bailed out, but he was too low and his
chute never opened...he had 15 1/2 confirmed kills.  "Buzz" Beerbower
got his nickname because he once returned from a low-level mission with
14 feet of telephone wire on his wing.  The same day Don was lost my
cousin Wallace "Bud" Emmer was also lost.  Bud had 14 confirmed kills
and ended up the 5th ranking ace in the 9th AF.  Bud was burned in the
cockpit but managed to bail out and was captured.  The cruel irony was
that he was to be repatriated in a prisoner swap and was bidding farewell
to his POW camp commander.  As he stepped from the bldg. an air raid siren
went off close to where he was standing and he collapsed into the arms of
a nearby buddy....dead of a heart attack.....the hero cousin I never
knew.....(since I was born in 1948).
But, back to General Howard.  His book is a MUST READ for all of you
fighter buffs.....and he will be missed.  Thanks for listening!
        Check six.                        Tripp Alyn

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:16:44 EST
From:    "Steve L. New" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Glacier Girl Photographs

     The good news is that, thanks to Jeff Dingbaum, the photographs are
     now available on the net:

     FTP;

     hepnrc.hep.net   in /history/ww2/p38

     WWW;

     http://hepnrc.hep.net/ftp/history/ww2/p38/

     I haven't tried to access these yet, but then I have the original
     photos.

     Enjoy,

    Steve L. New
    [email-masked]
    Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 13:12:27 CET
From:    "COL Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: NEWS: Wuerzburg's Residenz

The following article appeared in today's Stars and Stripes newspaper

Preserving Wuerzburg's Residenz by JP Barham, Wuerzburg Bureau

Although it has been 50 years since British bombers all but leveled the river
community of Wuertzburg, Germany, local residents still remember fondly an
American officer who worked diligently to save one of the city's greatest
landmarks.

On March 16, 1945, some 260 British bombers began dropping 200, 500kg
bombs and nearly 380,000 stick-type fire bombs containing an early form of
napalm on the city.

Somehow the city's Residenz -- the palace built for Wuerzburg's prince-
bishops in the 18th century -- escaped major bombing damage during the
air raid.  But the inner wooden structure of the roof lay in ashes as
temperatures from the fires within the inner city reached about 2000
degrees Centigrade.

Less than one month later, members of the 45th Inf Div crossed the Main
River using pontoon brideges and secured the area.  And shortly after that,
1st Lt John D. Skilton Jr arrived.

Skilton, an art historian before and after the war was an aide to an Army
"art preservation officer."  He was sent to Wuerzburg with orders to save what
was left of art treasures in and around the city.

Skilton was a curator at the National Gallery of Art in Washington before
being drafted in 1943.  In 1944, he was transferred to England and
eventually was assigned to Wuerzburg on June 18, some six weeks after the
war ended.

With bad weather threatening permanent damage from moisture to paintings,
tapestries, statues, furniture, and other art treasures that had been shielded
from the fire by the stone walls and floors inside the multistory structure,
Skilton decided it was essential to repair the Residenz's roof.

He was particularly concerned about the fragile plaster dome that covered the
entrance hall and grand staircase of the Residenz.  The dome was decorated
by a fresco by Giovanni Battista Tiepolo that was the largest of its kind
in Europe.

With wood and building staples in short supply, Skilton had to forage for
raw materials throughout Germany.  Tar paper was found in Bamberg.  Cement
came from Karlstadt and the 10 trucks to pick it up were appropriated from an
Army supply company.

Skilton also struck a deal with the United Service Organization to help his
cause.  He arranged permission for the USO to put on a show starring Ingrid
Bergman on the Residenz's square, with the understanding that it would fill
the bomb craters in the square and that the lumber used to build the stage
would be given to Skilton when the show was over.  The result was a
temporary roof that  kept the weather away until something permanent was
built.

Throughout his stay in Wuerzburg, Skilton worked dilignely to save any
piece of art or part of the Residenz that could be found.  Before he left,
parts of the Residenz also became protected storage areas for art treasures
found in outlying towns.

Skilton remained in Wuerzburg for four months before being reassigned.  He
returned to Wuerzburg in 1976 and again in 1981 to celebrate his birthday.

For his efforts, Skilton was honored by city officials and given its highest
award.  During his return in 1976 Skilton was recognized as a "World citizen
in the World of Art" by the art league in Wuerzburg.

As a tribute, a color sketch of Skilton in his Army uniform hangs in one of
the halls of the Residenz. A brass plaque engraved with "John D. Skilton, Jr,
U.S. Army Officer" accompanies the portrait surrounded by large photos
showing the reconstruction and restoration of the Residenz. The honor makes
him part of the city's history.

Skilton died on Jan 30, 1991, at age 82.  Not much else is known about the
soldier who saved the Residenz and its art treasures.  Local historical
files and memorabilia from the era say little more about the man.

But city residents and those who come to visit the Residenz will be able
to see and long appreciate the physical reminder of his work.

                       Doug

Doug Donnell
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:02:21 CET
From:    "COL Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Oops

I was trying to type Nuernberg stuff in between doing business yesterday
(work has a nasty habit of getting in the way), and made two part fives
of my Nuernberg info/observations.  Oh well. . . .   Just call them
parts 5a and 5b.
                               Doug

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:48:48 -0400
From:    Sam Lashlee <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Victoire Intellectuelle

I tried to send this message to COL Donnell, DOug, but just received word
that the message bounced.  Sorry for having to putting this out to all...

Thanks for responding.  Please, post more info if you have it.

>I'll post some more info on WWII-L if you're
>interested.  The folks on the list will probably give you as much as you
>can possibly use.

ON the Internet, I have found the following...

I subscribe to two different Lists.  I have found that there is more info
there then in any books that I have ever found.  I have actually found a
cousin of mine who lives about 5 miles from me.

The first list is Roots-L.  The address for posting queries is:
[email-masked]

The address for subscribing is:
[email-masked]

The command for subscribing is:
SUB ROOTS-L Firstname Lastname

Another list I am on is PIE (Pursuing Italians Electronically)
The address for posting queries there is:
[email-masked]

the address for subscribing is:
[email-masked]

The command for subscribing is:
subscribe PIE <email address>

I also suggest the following command:
set pie mail digest

I just found out about these places this morning, so I have not had a chance
to test them out:
These are address for Genealogy On-Line

        Information     [email-masked]
        FTP             genealogy.emcee.com
        Telnet          login as guest; genealogy.emcee.com
        WWW             http://genealogy.emcee.com/

>You made the comment that you're interested in your family's history.  I
>was wondering if you might give me some info on genealogy resources on
>the internet.  I've done some digging into my family tree in the past,
>but have exhausted most of the "easy" resources and need to delve a little
>deeper.

I hope you can use some of what I have given you.  I will forward you more
sites on the World Wide Web that I have found useful, if you want me to.

Thanks again for responding to my query.

Sam

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:38:00 +0100
From:    Tobias van Gent <[email-masked]>
Subject: Russian Mechanized Corps in 1941

My name is Tobias van Gent. I'm lecturing military history
at the Dutch Naval Academy.

Currently I'm writing an article on the Russian Mechanized Corps
during operation 'Barbarossa'. My sources are an article from
'Military Affairs' (1983) and some of the well known books on
Barbarossa like Erickson ('The Road to Stalingrad'), Fugate
('Operation Barbarossa') and Poirier and Conner ('The Red Army
order of battle').

Does anyome know additional sources on the Russian Mechanized Corps
or does anyone have information on the organization, strenght and
combatactions of the Russian tankforces in 1941?

I would appreciate your help,

Tobias van Gent
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:34:38 -0500
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Operation Petticoat

I remember that one. Liked the part about the pig...

Reminds me of my Mother-in-Law:-)
                                                        Steve
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - [email-masked] |"Life may be a drag...
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |    But it sure beats the
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |       only known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:25:35 -0500
From:    Ron Babuka <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Operation Petticoat

>I remember that one. Liked the part about the pig...
>
>Reminds me of my Mother-in-Law:-)
>                                                        Steve

Steve - I have been married for only 6 months and am just curious if making
mother-in-law cracks in a public forum come easier with time or are you
just a bolder man than I  ;-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka
Cornell University
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

Fax: 607-254-6404
http://ir-www.cit.cornell.edu/IR_staff/ron_babuka.html

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:41:46 CST
From:    "SCHERRER, TIM" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: Hitler's Uniform On Display

There was a Hitler flying suit on display at a small museum in Union, IL
several years back.  It was captured by an American vet and was deemed
authentic.  This was in the 85-88 time frame.  We used to do a
reenactment up there once a year on memorial day until the museum got
stingy and people got mad at them with the type of food they were
serving us.

The Museum is Called 7 Acres and is located just outside Union, IL which
is 45 minutes to an hour west of Chicago--in between Chicago and
Rockford.  I have not heard if it is still there.

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:13:00 -0500
From:    "Roger D. Corrie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Naval Fraternity Wild Sea Horses??

Has any one on this list heard of the Wild Sea Horses, a naval fraternity
that was active in Norfolk VA area durring WWII?

I have a copy of their charter, by-laws and roster from Aug 1, 1941.  I can
post whatever info the group list would like to see.
CPORog (Roger D. Corrie)            CAG Devil 00 is down I need 5!!!
[email-masked]
http://www.infi.net:80/~cporog/     Is that 5 maintenance min. or 5 real min?
804-427-2200

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:58:30 -0800
From:    Patrick Charles <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: HITLER'S UNIFORM O

        Maplethorpe's works consisted of bullwhips up people's rectums
and that sort.  Andreas Serano was the esteemed artist who created "Piss
Christ".  As I recall, the issue wasn't really free speech rather it was
taxpayer funded art via NEA grants.  Now that I've gotten really off the
subject of World War II.

[email-masked]
Patrick Charles

On Tue, 21 Mar 1995, Ben Frank wrote:

> Sorry, but it wasn't Maplethorpe who photographed the cross in a test tube of
> urine, but another "noteworthy" artist, whose name escapes me at this moment,
> and probably just as well. I probably should have written "artist," with
> quotes, as well. Ben Frank
>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:30:38 -0500
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: ADMIN: HITLER'S UNIFORM

        Please keep messages pertinent to WWII.  Discussing Maplethorpe
and others is not germaine and will lead to removal from the list.  Thanks.
--
Joe Barone, WWII-L listowner
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:45:24 EST
From:    Richard King <[email-masked]>
Subject: General - WWII Ghost Stories

Bill Wsiaki:

Last year there was considerable discussion and lots of fun
in recounting ghost stories and other strange WWII related
paranormal experiences. Try searching the archives with the
term GHOST and GHOSTS; also URBAN LEGENDS.

In an aside, I recently used WWII-L to answer a reference
question by a student who wanted to do research on the
Philadelphia Experiment. The terms Philadelphia Experiment
pulled up a dozen really good postings that explained
everything about this bit of folklore. Our library had
nothing about it otherwise.

Richard King ([email-masked])
Reference Librarian
Vincennes (IN) Univ.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:02:11 GMT
From:    Dan Wilson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: HITLER'S UNIFORM

     Thank you.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: ADMIN: HITLER'S UNIFORM
Author:  _WWII-L (SMTP.WWIIL) at SSWGATE
Date:    03/22/95 10:37 AM

        Please keep messages pertinent to WWII.  Discussing Maplethorpe
and others is not germaine and will lead to removal from the list.  Thanks.
--
Joe Barone, WWII-L listowner
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:19:10 -0400
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Japan, China, and Manchuria posts

        First, my quick apologies to the list, I accidentally posted a message
I thought I was sending to Ben Frank.  Also, in crediting the information I
asked for and got on Japanese naval radar I somehow turned Jim O'Neil into Jim
O'Brien.  Just got back from a three-day getaway, I suppose (to paraphrase Mose
Allison's song) "my mind was on vacation, but my mouth (fingers) were working
overtime."
        Anyway, I'm in the process of doing what I should have done in the
first place, i.e., converting my posts into text files so that I could organize
and proofread them.  Anyone out there who is interested in getting the
cleaned-up final versions (into which I plan to also insert a little more
detail in some areas), please notify me by e-mail off the list and I'll send it
to you chapter by chapter as I finish them.  If anybody found them entertaining
when I originally typed them I'd encourage you to get the final version with
all my embarrassing boo-boos, typos, and awkward language removed, and a more
coherent organization imposed.  My e-mail address is "[email-masked]"

        Regards

        Mike Yaklich

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 13:45:14 -0500
From:    "Douglas S. Bohannon" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Jap Atroc & R U an American

Douglas S. Bohannon says:
<It's our people whom are taking away the honor and respect of our veterans
by allowing foreign governments to influence the treatment of out history.>

It should be "Its [no apostrophe] our people who are taking away [do you mean
"losing"?] . . .treatment of our [I suppose "out" was a typo].

Historically, what is the relationship between literacy and the ability to
conduct large scale military operations?

********************************************************
This message is in response to comments from [email-masked]  .

By pointing out spelling and syntax errors I made in my previous message, I
get the impression that you have no concern about the issues involved.

The United Nations and other foreign government involvement in influencing
the rewriting of our history and in determining our domestic and foreign
policy are a serious threat to the American people. Promotion of the UN's
goal of a One World Government is being supported by American economic and
plotical leadership.

I do not support this New World Order movement and, in an attempt to slow it,
I participate in events that support our Constitution and Bill of Rights. I
write letters to my congressmen and I tell everyone I know to read about the
United Nations, Council of Foreign Relations, and the New World Order.

Every country in the world, except the United States, puts its domestic
interest first. This includes the UN which is, in essence, a foreign
government inside the United States.

I want my children to grow up with the same freedoms and rights that I have
and that includes their right to read about and appreciate the great history
of the United States of America. I even support your right to correct
spelling and syntax.

The thousands of American who fought and died fighting the Japanese in WW II,
fought for America. Their success in defeating Japan at all costs is a
tribute to their dedication to the preservation of the United States of
America.

To allow a corrupt president and globalist congressmen to corrupt our history
is a crime.

There are high level attempts to put "re-written" politically correct (ie.
politically corrupt) history books in our public schools throughout the nation
. This must be stopped.

If we, the American people, do not work and fight for our freedom and our
heritage, we will lose both.

Doug Bohannon
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 16:08:39 -0500
From:    Ron Babuka <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA: VJ Day

There are was a thread in an AP article that a planned  Pearl Harbor
ceremony marking the Japanese surrender were scaled back to avoid
embarrasing Prime Minister Murayama.  I was wondering if any of our list
members out in that neck of the woods (Jim Adams perhaps) could verify this
statement.  TIA.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka
Cornell University
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

Fax: 607-254-6404
http://ir-www.cit.cornell.edu/IR_staff/ron_babuka.html

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 16:29:25 -0600
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Russian Mechanized Corps in 1941

Tobias,

     WWII-L's own John Lundstrom -- more famed now for his
definitive FIRST TEAM accounts of the naval air battles of
the South Pacific -- wrote a couple of excellent articles on
this in the old wargaming magazine, PANZERFAUST.  I haven't
dug that out, and -- knowing John -- he may be hesitant to offer
that as a source out of modesty or the wariness that there may
be more recent/accurate sources available now.

     One basic source is I.E. Krupchenko's SOVIETSKII
TANKOVIYE VOISKA (MOCKBA:  Voenizdat, 1973), p. 13.  After the
purge of M.M. Tukhachesvki and the more progressive half of the
Red Army officer corps in the late 1930s, there were various
reorganizations.  Stalinist hacks got T.'s mechanized corps
disbanded, with the tanks reapportioned to infantry and cavalry
units.  However, with the overrunning of France -- and assorted
other countries  :-)  -- by the Panzer juggernaut, mobile/
mechanized warfare was miraculously "rediscovered" by the Soviets.
Zhukov's own demonstration of the power of tank-led spearheads,
against the Japanese in the East, was also convincing.

     So, in June 1940 came the final pre-war TO&E of the "new"
"mechanized" corps.  I don't have the auxilliary equipment
specs, but in each mechanized corps there were to be two tank
divisions, containing 375 tanks, each:  63 KVs, 210 T-34s, and
102 T-26s and BTs).  The motorized (rifle/infantry) division
was to have 275 "light" tanks, presumably T-26s.  The total
Krupchenko gives is 1031 (which doesn't add up.  :-)  )

     30 such corps were ordered up, but since the total Soviet
tank park in 1941 is estimated to have been 22,500 tanks --
Hitler invaded with only 3,500! -- the corps were deficient in
tank strength from the outset.  They were even more seriously
deficient in the auxilliary equipment:  trucks, prime movers,
motorcycles, etc.  (Krupchenko gives percentages.)

     For example, on p. 53 of PERVIYE DNI BOINI, L.M. Sandalov
shows the 14. Mech. Corps (attached to 4. Combined Arms Army)
as having a total of 478 light (T-26 and/or BT-5s and -7s)
tanks:  235 in the 22. TankDiv up on the border, 189 in the
30. TD back at Pruzhani, and 54 in the 205. Motorized Div even
further back at Bereza-Kartuzskaya.

     Another example:  D.D. Lelyushenko's 21. Mech. Corps
(attached to the 22. Army in the Reserve Echelon near Velikiye
Luki) had only 96 T-26s and BTs when it sallied forth.

     On p. 22, K. says the best-equipped corps were the 1.,
2., 3., 4., 6., and 8.  It is odd that he would leave out the
7., which was the "model" unit stationed in/around Moscow and
boasted the 1. Moscow Motorized Rifle Division (commanded by
Kreiser) which rushed out to delay the Germans at the Borisov
crossing of the Berezina River (ENE of Minsk).

     Also, the performance of the 1. MC is unremarkable and,
unlike the Reserve Echelon 22., did little to staunch von Manstein's
Dvinsk bridgehead -- which leads me to think its strength was
wanting.

     To be sure, the MechCorps' strengths varied wildly, and
only 25 of them were deployed and/or committed as corps in the
West.

     However, in the final analysis, it is important to remember
that the Soviets lacked the *sustained* mobility of the German
units.  Tracked (or even just wheeled) vehicles of *all* kinds
were essential to the "deep battle" operations envisioned by
Tukhachevski and implemented by Guderian & Friends.  Operationally,
the early Sov mechcorps were hardly more mobile than their rifle
corps, and it is one of the ironies of "Barbarossa" that the
Germans were calling *their* Panzerkorps "motorized corps" at the
time!

     See also the recent books by David Glantz and Richard Simpkins
(with John Erickson) on Soviet deep battle theories and organization.
It also sticks in my mind that there was an article on exactly this
topic in VOENNO-ISTORICHESKI ZHURNAL (MILITARY HISTORY JOURNAL,
published by the Soviet/Russian Military History Institute) some
years ago.

     Good luck, Tobias.  If you need a *wargame* as an instructional
aid, I know of a good one for you.  :-)

     John, How did I do?  :-)

Lou Coatney, Russian Front/Great Patriotic War Wargame Designer
  [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 16:23:57 -0800
From:    Steve New <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ding Hao!

Ben,

I can't argue with you.  The way I heard it "Number One" was synonomous
with very good, where "Number 10" referred to very bad.

Never having been to China, I have no independent method to check this
out.

--

Steve L. New
[email-masked]
Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:44:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 23 MAR 45

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FRIDAY, 23 MARCH 1945
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-26, Douglas Invader
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  F-6, North American Mustang
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang
  P-61, Northrop Black Widow
  Spitfire, Vickers Supermarine

NOTE: A number in parenthesis after a target name indicates the number of
bombers attacking.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): An 8-bomber strike is called off due to
weather.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER

  CHINA THEATER (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 28 B-24s bomb the Tsinan
railroad shops and Yellow River bridge; 5 B-25s bomb town areas, storage
facilities, and targets of opportunity at Sinsiang and Wu-yang and chiefly in
the Hsiangcheng area; 50+ fighter-bombers attack troops, horses, and river,
road, and railroad targets in N French Indochina and S and E China.

  INDIA-BURMA THEATER (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 15 P-47s support Chinese
ground forces, bomb troops, and positions at Nampongpang and Nakang; 16 P-47s
hit targets of opportunity along roads from Mong Nawng to Wan Sing and to
Kunlong, China; 11 P-47s hit quarters at Monglawng while 3 others attack
supply dumps at Laihka; 9 B-25s bomb communications routes, creating 2 road
blocks behind enemy lines. In large-scale air supply operations, 536 sorties
are flown.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 3 missions are flown.
  Mission 908: The Allied ground assault across the lower Rhine River begins;
1,276 bombers and 499 fighters visually attack rail targets in W and C
Germany; they claim 1-0-1 Luftwaffe aircraft; 7 bombers are lost:
  1. 319 B-24s are sent to hit the Rheine Bridge (79) and the Osnabruck (80)
and Munster (142) marshalling yards; 2 others hit Hoya Airfield, a target of
opportunity; 3 B-24s are lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 95 damaged; 1
airman is KIA, 3 WIA and 35 MIA. Escorting are 79 of 80 P-51s.
  2. 519 B-17s are sent to hit marshalling yards Hengstey (113), Giesecke
(91), Holzwickede (184) and the Unna yard at Dormund (38); secondary targets
hit are Meschede (19) and marshalling yards at Siegen (93) and Marburg (10);
targets of opportunity are Herdecke (10), Haliger (1) and Schwerte (10); 3
B-17s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 178 damaged; 6 airmen are KIA, 4
WIA and 27 MIA. 82 P-51s escort.
  3. 438 B-17s are dispatched to hit marshalling yards at Coesfeld (145),
Recklinghausen (120) and Gladbeck (141); targets of opportunity are Hechfeldt
(12) and the marshalling yard at Westerholt (13); 1 B-17 is lost; 3 airmen
are WIA and 10 MIA. The escort is 71 of 79 P-51s.
  4. 125 of 131 P-51s fly a fighter sweep of the Bremen-Kassel area; they
claim 1-0-0 aircraft in the air and 0-0-1 on the ground.
  5. 71 of 84 P-51s fly a sweep for the Ninth AF.
  6. 16 P-51s escort 15 F-5s and 4 Spitfires on photo reconnaissance missions
over Germany.
  7. 25 of 27 P-51s fly weather reconnaissance missions.
  Mission 909: 1 B-17, escorted by 4 P-51s, bombs Ettinghausen Airfield in a
Micro-H Mk II radar test.
  Mission 910: During the night, 9 of 10 B-24s drop leaflets in the
Netherlands and Germany; and 19 B-24s fly CARPETBAGGER missions to Denmark.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In Germany, around 800 A-20s, A-26s
and B-26s strike 7 communications centers, a factory, and targets of
opportunity (including several flak positions); attacks on communications
centers are aimed at obstructing the movement of reinforcements to the front;
fighters escort the bombers, fly patrols and armed reconnaissance, attack
assigned ground targets, support the US III and VII Corps SE of Honnef and E
of the Wied River and the XII and XX Corps astride and on the W bank of the
Rhine River between Mainz and Worms. The 107th Tactical Reconnaissance
Squadron, 67th Tactical Reconnaissance Group, moves from Gosselies, Belgium
to Vogelsang, Germany with F-6s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 658 B-17s and B-24s, (with
fighter escort) hit oil refineries at Ruhland, Germany, and at Vienna,
Austria, marshalling yards at Budejovice, Czechoslovakia and Gmund, Sankt
Polten and Sankt Valentin, Austria, and a tank works at Sankt Valentin, plus
scattered targets of opportunity. 40+ F-5s, P-38s and P-51s fly
reconnaissance.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, A-20s attack loading
points and crossings along the Po River during the night of 22/23 Mar; P-47s
concentrate on communications and general movement in the lower Brenner area
during the day; the fighter-bombers also blast several dumps in the C Po
Valley; B-25s hit bridges, railroad fills, and bridge approaches in the
Brenner area at Matrei am Brenner, Austria and Pordenone, Salorno, San
Michele all' Adige, Vo Sinistro, Longarone, and Perca, Italy.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA)

  AAFPOA
    Seventh Air Force: During the night of 23/24 Mar, 5 Guam Island-based
B-24s, flying single-bomber strikes, pound Susaki Airfield on Chichi Jima
Island.
    VII Fighter Command: 15 P-51s from Iwo Jima Island bomb and strafe
various targets on Chichi Jima, Haha Jima, and Ani Jima Islands in the
Bonin Islands.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s, B-25s,
A-20s, and fighters hit Visayan Island, Philippine Islands, bombing Cebu
City, hitting defenses on Cebu Island and other islands, and on Luzon
Island, bomb the Antamok mines, Balete Pass, and the Tangadon areas, along
with several other targets. B-24s also hit targets on Mindanao Island and
fighter-bombers attack Takao, Formosa. The detachment of the 421st Night
Fighter Squadron, 86th Fighter Wing, operating from Tacloban, Leyte Island
with P-61s, returns to base at San Marcelino, Luzon.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

23/0142Z MAR

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:10:26 EST
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 23-MAR-1945

On 23-MAR-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - Operation Plunder begins; the offensive across the Rhine
north of the Ruhr by the 21st Army Group. The divisions of the Canadian 1st
Army head toward Emmerich, while the British 2nd Army crosses the Rhine
near Rees and Wesel. In the U.S. 1st Army sector, the bridgehead east of
the Wied is widened by the 9th and 90th Divisions. In the 3rd Army sector,
the VIII Corps advances in the Koblenz-Boppard sector, while the XII Corps
advances in the Wallarstadten-Erfelden and Oppenheim-Worms areas. The 94th
Division enters Ludwigshafen.

Eastern Front - The 2nd White Russian Front reaches the Gulf of Danzig
between Danzig and Gdynia. The 3rd White Russian Front maintains pressure
against pockets in East Prussia. The 1st Ukraine Front continues to gain
ground in Upper Silesia.

Philippines - The 5th Air Force begins a series of attacks on the Legaspi
area in preparation for an amphibious assault there.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                           |                      [email-masked]
Cary, North Carolina                 |            http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:54:01 -0800
From:    Jim Curry <[email-masked]>
Subject: Chechniya in World War II

The recent uproar in Chechniya has stirred my curiosity. In 1942 the Germans
penetrated deep into the Caucasus region (I've seen a photo of German
mountain troops hoisting the Swastika over Mount Elbrus, the highest peak
in the Caucasus range).  Did they reach Chechen territory ?  My WWII atlases
indicate they never took Grozny,but did drive to within a few miles of the
city.  Did the Germans get any help from the Chechens, longstanding foes
of the Russians?  I do know that both the Chechens and their Ingush relatives
were deported from the Caucasus afterwards and not permitted to return until
Khrushchev's time. I'd like to hear from others knowledgeable about this
episode.

Jim Curry
[email-masked]

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 21 Mar 1995 to 22 Mar 1995
*************************************************