Subject: WWII-L Digest - 19 Mar 1995 to 20 Mar 1995

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 00:00:04 -0500

There are 21 messages totalling 653 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. ADMIN: Happy Anniversary!
  2. Nuernberg
  3. HIST: Nuremberg trivia
  4. INF: USN Chronology 03-18-95
  5. INF: USN Chronology 03-19-95 (2)
  6. INF: USN Chronology 03-20-95
  7. Mountbatten Pink
  8. Bataan
  9. NOST: Nuernberg pt 2
 10. Offending Someome...
 11. Machine-gunning survivor (2)
 12. National Archives Fax-on-Demand Service
 13. Grenada Army Airfield, MS.
 14. Wahoo War Reports
 15. ADMIN: HAPPY ANNIV (2)
 16. INF: 50 Years Ago - 21-MAR-1945
 17. SAIPAN CONTROVERSY
 18. INF: 50 YEARS AGO - 19

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 19 Mar 1995 23:02:53 -0600
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Happy Anniversary!

And Happy Anniversary!, to you, Joe.

:-)

Lou

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 12:44:44 CET
From:    "COL Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Nuernberg

I had the pleasure of spending the past weekend in Nuernberg and, true to
form, dragged my wife and kids to all sorts of "interesting" places such
as the locations of the Nazi party rallies of the 1930s.  (Of course, the
trade off was a visit to the toy museum, the Czeck Republic, etc).  I'll
post some information/observations that might be of interest to the list.

We stayed in a place called the "American Bavarian Hotel", run by the US
Army and located right across the street from the main train station.  Here
is the history of the hotel (quoted from the dinner menu, an obviously
unimpeachable source):

The Bavarian American Hotel was built during the period 1932-1936 by the
Nazi Party.  Upon completion in 1936 the building was called the Grand
Hotel.  To the Nazi Party, it was known as the Stadt Reichsparteigastaette,
or the State Party House.

[Doug's note:  The BA Hotel and Grand Hotel today share the same building.
It appears from the outside that they were built at the same time and
simply split into two separate facilities]

The Hotel was the most modern building in Nuernberg, at the time, having an
elevator and service elevators throughout the building.  The major rooms -
now the Lobby, Continental Ballroom, and the Panzer Keller Restaurant -
were air conditioned.  The original system was renovated in 1978 and
portions of the original equipment are still functioning.  The building
has a fully automated central heating system; the sensors control the
temperature of circulating water by floor and building wing.  An engineering
room, located some sixty feet below street level houses all the controls.
The system was upgraded and includes new room radiators.  The building also
contains its own water chlorination plant and automatic emergency lighting
systems.

The Hotel was opened for the first time in 1936 for the Nazi Party Organization
Days, 28 July through 4 August.  The period of operation was on 14 days,
with service provided by the Grand Hotel staff.  From 1936 until the fall
of the Third Reich, the Hotel was used only for those 14 days each year for
ther party conference.

During its period of use by the Nazi Party, suite 379 was permanently
reserved for Air Marshall herman Goeing.  His living room was carpeted
with two-inch thick white lamb's wool.  Adolph Hitler refused to use
the Hotel because of its connection with Grand Hotel, which ahd refused
him accommodation in 1931.

[Doug's note: Hitler stayed at the Deutscher Hof hotel, just down the
street]

The Bavarian American Hotel was bombed in August 1944, the fifth and
sixth floors and the lobby were burned out.  On June 30, 1945, the
Hotel was confiscated by the US Forces.

>From 1945 until 22 December 1953, The Bavarian American hotel and the Grand
Hotel were used by the US Forces as an Officers' and Civilian's Club and
BOQ.  The complex also was the residence of the judges and attorneys
participating in the war crimes trials.  During this period, the fifth and
sixth floors and the lobby were rebuilt.  On 23 December 1953, The Grand
Hotel was returned to its owners, and the US Forces operation continued at
the American Bavarian Hotel.  From December 1953 until 1959 the hotel was
limited to officers and civilians.  In 1959 the facility was opened to all
grades.

[Doug's note:  As it now stands the hotel will probably close for good
in Sept or Oct of this year -- another victim of the drawdown of US
Forces in Europe]

I'll post more later on the Party Rallies, the grounds, and how things
look today.

                               Doug

Doug Donnell
Ruppertsweiler, Germany
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 07:38:56 -0500
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: HIST: Nuremberg trivia

Doug Donnell's post reminded me of a weird experience I had in 1974. I was
standing on the "tribune" (the speaker's rostrum at the Speer-designed
Zeppelinwiese) when I heard march music ... thought I'd entered
a time-warp. I expected to see parading troops and cheering crowds.
Discovered later that the music came from an amusement park nearby, also
located in a former Parteitag site at the Luitpoldhain.

-- Warren Thompson

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 18 Mar 1995 04:00:11 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 03-18-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
03/18 Sun. Aircraft from fast carrier task force (Vice Adm.
           M. A. Mitscher) bomb airfields on Kyushu, Japan.
           Army troops are landed on southeast coast of Panay,
           P. I., by naval task group (Rear Adm. A. D. Struble)
           under cover of cruiser and destroyer gunfire.
            United States naval vessels damaged:
             Carrier ENTERPRISE (CV-6), by horizontal bomber,
              off Kyushu, Japan,
              30 d. 50'N., 133 d. 42'E.
             Carrier YORKTOWN (CV-10), by horizontal bomber,
              off Kyushu, Japan,
              30 d. 40'N., 133 d. 49'E.
             Carrier INTREPID (CV-11), by suicide plane and
              accidentally by United States naval gunfire,
              off Kyushu, Japan,
              30 d. 47'N., 133 d. 50'E.
             LST 635, by grounding, Philippine Islands area,
              11 d. 05'N., 125 d. 05'E.
            Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             Transport No. 18, by submarine SPRINGER (SS-414),
              south of the Ryukyu Islands,
              26 d. 33'N., 127 d. 11'E.
            German submarine sunk:
             U-866, by destroyer escorts MENGES (DE-320), MOSLEY
              (DE-321), PRIDE (DE-323), and LOWE (DE-325),
              northwest Atlantic area,
              43 d. 18'N., 61 d. 08'W.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 19 Mar 1995 04:00:08 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 03-19-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
03/19 Mon. Aircraft from fast carrier task force (Vice Adm. M.
           A. Mitscher) bomb airfields on Kyushu, and shipping
           at Kure and Kobe, Honshu, Japan.
            United States naval vessels damaged:
             Carrier ESSEX (CV-9), accidentally by United States
              naval gunfire, off Shikoku, Japan,
              32 d. 10'N., 134 d. 20'E.
             Carrier FRANKLIN (CV-13), by horizontal bomber,
              off Kyushu, Japan,
              32 d. 01'N., 133 d. 57'E.
             Carrier WASP (CV-18), by dive bomber,
              off Shikoku, Japan,
              32 d. 16'N., 134 d. 05'E.
            Japanese naval vessel sunk:
             River gunboat SUMA, by Army mine,
              off Shanghai, China,
              32 d. 00'N., 120 d. 00'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 04:00:09 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 03-20-95

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1945
03/20 Tue. Submarine PERCH (SS-313) lands personnel on east coast
           of Borneo.
            United States naval vessels damaged:
             Carrier ENTERPRISE (CV-6), accidentally by United
              States naval gunfire, off Japan,
              30 d. 01'N., 134 d. 30'E.
             Destroyer HALSEY POWELL (DD-686), by suicide plane,
              off Japan,
              30 d. 27'N., 134 d. 28'E.
             Submarine DEVILFISH (SS-292), by suicide plane,
              off Volcano Islands,
              25 d. 36'N., 137 d. 30'E.
             Cargo ship HERCULES (AK-41), by collision,
              Iwo Jima area,
              24 d. 46'N., 141 d. 19'E.

Information compiled by U.S. Navy Historians.  For more information,
contact the Naval Historical Center at (202) 433-3940.
Archived by: "Larry W. Jewell" <[email-masked]>
Posted by:
Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 13:12:29 CET
From:    "COL Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Mountbatten Pink

Hey, maybe the movie "Operation Petticoat" wasn't all wrong :-)

                             Doug

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 10:46:50 -600
From:    Lowell Rick Cox <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bataan

>Hi all,
>
>While watching the series WORLD AT WAR, I took down the Bataan Ballad.
>
>        We are the battling bastards of Bataan
>        No Momma, no Papa, no Uncle Sam
>        No Aunts, no Uncles, nieces
>        No pills, no planes, no artillery pieces
>        And nobody gives a God Damn.
>
>Thoought everyone might ennjoy.
>
>Tony Schuler
>[email-masked]
>
What tune was this set to please.

Rick Cox    [email-masked]
Ameritech National Customer Service Center
Hoffman Estates, Illinois.

Modification of an old Cav saying; If you ain't Cav, you got over!

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 18:09:20 CET
From:    "COL Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: NOST: Nuernberg pt 2

The travelogue continues. . .

But first, a little background on the party rallies -

Nazi party rallies were held each year in the late summer, first as party
gatherings and later as huge national events with untold pomp and ceremony.
In the late 20s Hitler began his ceremonies in Nuernberg, centered around
the memorial to the first world war -- the Ehrenmal.  As the power of the
Nazi party continued to grow, so did the size of the ceremonies.  It
became clear that to effectively hold ceremonies on the scale envisioned
by the party leaders, a special rally area had to be built.  The first
of these was held in 1933, in an area adjacent to the Ehrenmal on the
outskirts of Nuernberg.

Quoting from "After the Battle, no 2",

The Volkischer Beobachter on August 30, 1933, reported that during the
previous two weeks a huge wooden grandstand had been erected, surrounded
by three wooden towers ninety-six feet high and visible from a great
distance.  Large flags, seventy eight by eighteen feet in size, were mounted
on top of each tower.  The flagpoles put up in this area stood 105 feet high.
The speaker's platform and grandstand for 60,000 people were completed.
The former was eighteen feet high and could accomodate 1,000 honorary
guests.  On one side of the field stood a large stand for the press that
seated 1,500.  Eighty two loudspeakers had been installed.  This work was
done by 1,500 workers in a very short period of time.

End of quote

I forgot to mention the name of this area -- the Luitpoldhain -- named after
the Bavarian king.

Following the 1933 rally the first large scale construction project was
begun to prepare the area for the 1934 party congress.  A permanent
reviewing stand was constructed and Albert Speer was commissioned to plan
the overall design of a rally area befitting a 1000 year Reich.

More tomorrow. . .

                               Doug Donnell

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 12:49:47 -0500
From:    Henry Sirotin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Offending Someome...

According to current news reports, the V-E Day parade in Moscow will
be largely demilitarized, while the "Official" V-end of the war or
something else that shall remain unexplained Day will be armed to
the teeth.

HS

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 13:07:29 -0500
From:    Ron Babuka <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: USN Chronology 03-19-95

>UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
>from:
>//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt
>
>1945
>03/19 Mon. Aircraft from fast carrier task force (Vice Adm. M.
>           A. Mitscher) bomb airfields on Kyushu, and shipping
>           at Kure and Kobe, Honshu, Japan.
>            United States naval vessels damaged:
>             Carrier ESSEX (CV-9), accidentally by United States
>              naval gunfire, off Shikoku, Japan,
>              32 d. 10'N., 134 d. 20'E.
>             Carrier FRANKLIN (CV-13), by horizontal bomber,
>              off Kyushu, Japan,
>              32 d. 01'N., 133 d. 57'E.
>             Carrier WASP (CV-18), by dive bomber,
>              off Shikoku, Japan,
>              32 d. 16'N., 134 d. 05'E.
>            Japanese naval vessel sunk:
>             River gunboat SUMA, by Army mine,
>              off Shanghai, China,
>              32 d. 00'N., 120 d. 00'E.
>

I noticed all the damage done to U.S. Naval vessels by U.S. gunfire - would
it be correct to assume that this would probably be the result of ordanance
ment for Japanese aircraft that inadvertantly struck U.S. vessels - or does
anyone have any other information.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka
Cornell University
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

Fax: 607-254-6404
http://ir-www.cit.cornell.edu/IR_staff/ron_babuka.html

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 12:30:57 GMT-6
From:    "Robert T. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Machine-gunning survivor

Hello, Lou!

Just a quick response to your question.

> I have heard a story that Allied fighter pilots, knowing that German jet
> pilots were aces, shot at them in their parachutes to prevent them from
> flying more missions in their jets.  Does anyone out there know if this is
> true?

    I have heard that one too. The only way that Allied pilots could
get at those 262 pilots was to locate their bases, if possible, wait
for them to take off or get them just before they landed.

    To my knowledge, there was no official policy on this. As you
well know, both sides did some of this regardless of the type of
aircraft flown.

    Anyway, hope that has been of some help.

    All the best.

    Terry

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 09:48:28 -0500
From:    Debra Wall <[email-masked]>
Subject: National Archives Fax-on-Demand Service

The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA)
fax-on-demand service is an interactive fax retrieval system that allows
users to select and receive by fax a wide variety of NARA information.
To use the system call (301) 713-6905 from the handset of a fax
machine and follow the voice instructions. There is no charge for this
service except for any long distance telephone charges you may incur.

The system now contains about 120 documents and includes general
information about the National Archives and its facilities and holdings;
general information, finding aids and ordering information for motion
picture, video and sound recording, electronic and cartographic records;
information about the holdings of the Regional Archives and Presidential
Libraries systems; news releases; job announcements; the John F.
Kennedy Assassination Records Collection register; and daily Federal
Register table of contents and public inspection lists.

You can obtain the full list of available documents in 3 ways:

1.      By calling the fax-on-demand system at (301) 713-6905 using the
handset of your fax machine. Follow the voice instructions and select
document #1.

2.      By sending me an e-mail message at [email-masked]
with the subject heading "faxlist". You will receive an automated reply.

3.      By accessing the NARA gopher, CLIO.  Point your gopher client to
gopher.nara.gov, or use a Web browser (such as Mosaic or Lynx) to
open the following URL:  http://www.nara.gov/.  Many, but not all, of the
fax-on-demand documents are also available on the gopher.

We welcome all comments and suggestions about the fax-on-demand
service.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 15:43:17 CST
From:    Michael P LaForge <[email-masked]>
Subject: Grenada Army Airfield, MS.

Hello all.

 I am seeking information on the Grenada Army Air Field,
Grenada, Mississippi and it's associated rifle range as
part of a DERP-FUDS study designed to determine whether
the site needs to be remediated due to it's use during the
period July 1942 through March 1945.

 I am interested in the following units stationed at the
GAAF:
    443d Base Headquarters and Air Base Squadron.
    63d Troop Carrier Group.

 Also would anyone happen to know what the acronym
HITTC stands for? I suppose the TCC is for Troop Carrier
Command (Paratrooper chauffeurs and glider tug pilots) but the
HI portion has me stumped.  Additionally, would anyone happen
to know which sidearms (if any) were typically carried by C-47
and C-60 aircrew as well as some idea of how much training
they actually accomplished with their sidearms (if any).

Any and all responses are welcome.

 Mike LaForge
 U.S. Army Technical Center for Explosives Safety (USATCES)
 Explosives Safety Logistics Division (ESL)
 Defense Environmental Restoration Program - Formerly Used
 Defense Sites(DERP-FUDS)
 DSN: 585-8762  FAX: 585-6009  COMM: 815-273-8762

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 20:00:07 -0500
From:    Thomas Wildenberg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Wahoo War Reports

For those of you interested in same the War Patrol for Wahoo (First -
Sixth Patrols Aug 42/Aug 43) can be found in fiche # 1146-1148, microfilm
series M1752.

Source: M1752
        U.S. Submarine War Patrol Reports, 1941-1945
        Washington, DC: National Archives and Recrods Administration, 1993.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 21:09:43 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: HAPPY ANNIV

Joe, I've just cranked up after being off the computer attending the Nimitz
Conference in San Antonio. I'd like to add my congratulations for your year of
successfully running the board. As they say in the naval service, "Bravo Zulu
," Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 21:18:38 -0500
From:    David Rising <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: HAPPY ANNIV

Thanks for the great job Joe, there's been a lot for you to put up with
(including my pestering) but all in all it's gone pretty smoothly. I
remember wondering if this list was going to self destruct when Larry
couldn't find a new moderator, and then being elated that you'd stepped
in to take the reins! Thanks again,
Dave
P.S. do we all have to buy you a paper product or something like that :-)
(whatever 1st ann. is)?

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 21:36:24 EST
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 21-MAR-1945

On 21-MAR-1945, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - In the U.S. 1st Army sector, the VII Corps reaches the
river Sieg. Elements of the XII Corps reach Bingen. The 4th Armoured
Division advances north along the west bank of the Rhine capturing Worms.
The XX Corps occupies the west bank of the Rhine south of Worms to
Mannheim. The 12th Armoured Division reaches the outskirts of Ludwigshafen.
The 10th Armoured Division takes Neustadt, Darmstadt, Annweiler,
Queichhambach and Demsieders. In the 7th Army sector, the 63rd Division
liberates the area around Neukirchen. The 42nd Division resumes the
offensive towards the West Wall.

Philippines - In the I Corps area, elements of the 33rd Division link up
with Filipino guerrillas in the vicinity of San Fernando. The west coast of
Luzon is now clear. Elements of the 25th Division beat off a determined
counterattack on a ridge leading to Mt. Myoko. In the XI Corps area,
Japanese resistance to the 43rd Division collapses and Mt. Caymayuman, Mt.
Yabang and Sugar Loaf are cleared with ease.

Burma - All organized resistance within Mandalay ceases.

China - The Japanese begin a drive on the Laohokow airfield, moving by
night.

The Homefront
-------------
Baseball Players May Leave War Jobs - The War Manpower Commission has ruled
that baseball players may return to the game from any off-season
employment. Chairman Paul McNutt says "baseball adds to the morale on the
home front " and is in demand by soldiers here and overseas.

Byron Nelson Beats Sam Snead - Byron Nelson has won the Charlotte golf
tournament, defeating Sam Snead 69-73 in the 18-hole final.

=============================================================================

Sources: "United States Army in World War II, Chronology 1941-1945" compiled
by Mary H. Williams, Office of the Chief of Military History, Department of
the Army, "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi,
"Facts On File Yearbook 1945, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L.
Lapica.

Copyright 1995 by John B Davis, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Previous articles are archived at ftp.webcom.com in directory /pub/jbd/www
and can be accessed via the WWW by URL: http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/ww2.html.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                           |                      [email-masked]
Cary, North Carolina                 |            http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 21:35:13 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: SAIPAN CONTROVERSY

I'll be happy to, Chip, but the paper is too long to keyboard and post it. Give
me you snail mail address and I'll send it to you. Ben Frank

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:21:32 -0600
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Machine-gunning survivor

>
> Hello, Lou!
>
> Just a quick response to your question.
>
>
> > I have heard a story that Allied fighter pilots, knowing that German jet
> > pilots were aces, shot at them in their parachutes to prevent them from
> > flying more missions in their jets.  Does anyone out there know if this is
> > true?

Terry, I don't think this was me, but thanks for the post.  :-)  Lou

>     I have heard that one too. The only way that Allied pilots could
> get at those 262 pilots was to locate their bases, if possible, wait
> for them to take off or get them just before they landed.
>
>     To my knowledge, there was no official policy on this. As you
> well know, both sides did some of this regardless of the type of
> aircraft flown.
>
>     Anyway, hope that has been of some help.
>
>     All the best.
>
>     Terry
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:50:01 -0500
From:    Ben Frank <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 YEARS AGO - 19

The devastating damage suffered by the Franklin reminds me of the Saturday a
week before 1 April, L-Day on Okinawa. The invasion force was forming up in
Ulithi Lagoon, and I was standing at the railing of the ship I was on together
with a couple of friends who were Marine communicators. It was a drizzly,
cloudy day, and all of a sudden, out of the fog appeared a large carrier
escorted by a cruiser close aboard. As they came nearer, we could see that the
carrier had suffered heavy damage and we could make out her hull number, and
that of the cruiser. They were, of course, the Franklin and the Santa Fe. The
next day, Sunday, dawned clear and bright, about off our portside, about half a
mile away, was the Franklin, her flight deck curving up like a roller coaster,
and you could see through the hangar decks the blackened bulkhead, and,
perhaps, if memory serves, some slight smoke still. As you know, she was
repaired enough to enable her to make hew own way to the Brooklyn Navy Yard,
with repair crews still working on her, although she would never fight again.
When it reached Brooklyn, so I recall, they were still recovering bodies from
the twisted innards of the ship. She and her men deserve all the honor we can
give them. Ben Frank

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 19 Mar 1995 to 20 Mar 1995
*************************************************