+++> Where I come from we climb on and descend: "dringo ar y bws", "dringo ar fws", and "disgyn o'r bws", "disgyn o fws". I don't now whether these are just literal translations of the rather affected (but possible) English, though. (Nor do I now whether I just accept those in English because they are literal translations of the Welsh that I use.) >+++++ At least the latter was in normal use in England at one time. cf Lewis Carroll: "He thought he saw a banker's clerk descending from a bus" Colin Fine (who can read a bit of Welsh but has no hope of writing it)