X-Cc: Multiple recipients of list WELSH-L To: Multiple recipients of list WELSH-L In-Reply-To: <9412122024.AA09894@mx5.u.washington.edu> Tana, Hear, hear! And shouldn't it be cherished even more by the WELSH who live in that community?! (Sorry...my Welsh AND my dictionary are not up to even this short missive!) Susan ***************************************************************************** S.E. Cook Washington Sea Grant Program Communications HG-30 University of Washington email:secook@u.washington.edu (206) 685-2606 FAX (206) 685-0380 ***************************************************************************** On Mon, 12 Dec 1994, Tana Raikes wrote: > If I understood it correctly, this message concerned the removal of the > Welsh name of "Bangor-is-y- Coed" by the local Council from all bilingual > signposts replacing it with "Bangor-on-Dee" only (the English version of > the name). This community is located on the Welsh-English border in North > Wales but has been populated mainly by Welsh-speaking people for centuries. > Until recently it was always known as "Bangor-Is-Y-Coed" and is > referenced in historical records going back to the 15th century. > > I feel this issue of changing place names in Wales merits the interest > of everyone on this list so am replying in Welsh first (somewhat > fractured, I'm afraid) then English: > > Dweudodd Geraint Jones am 8 Dec: > > "Bangor is y Coed (o gologn 'Testun Trafod' papur bro > Maelor "Y Clawdd," Tachwedd 1994 > > Siom oed gweld fod Cynghorwry Cyngor Cymuned Bangor-is-y-Coed > wedi penderfynu peidio mabwysiadu teitl dwyiethog i'w Cyngor..." > > Fe ddangosais i y neges hwn i fy nghwr, cymro cymraeg. Ydyn ni'n werw iawn > gyda'r gwaith y Cyngor bro sydd yn newid yr enw Bangor-Is-Y-Coed i > Bangor-on-Dee. At beth? Rydyn ni'n byw yn Connecticut gerllaw > Pawcatuck. Pan awn ni fynd i'r traeth fe awn ni i Misquamicut. Rydyn > ni'n defnidio'r heol Poquonnock Road. Oherwydd fod yr ardal hwn wedi > derbyn y Saeson yn yr ganrif 17, does'na ddim son ar newid yr enwau > Indian ar bob le. Oes'na ychedig Indians yma heddiu ond mae'r enwau yn > atgofion ni am eu hanes. > > Yr peth mwyaf pwysig, bodd mae'n rhaid i rhoi enwau'r lefydd yn Gymru yn > ddwy iaith? Mae bobol sais yn mynd oll gyfan y byd heb newid enw y > trefydd. Mae nhw hawdd i fynd i Ty Ddewi neu Tregroes a mynd i Roma neu > Bruxelles neu Munchen heb arwyddiau dwyeithog! Beth ta'r cymry eisiau > cael arwyddiau dwyeithog i'r lefydd sais? Yr engraifft byddai > "Buckingham Palace" yn ddangos gyda'r enw cymraeg "Plas Mochyn Neidio?". > Neu beth am "Little Piddling" yn gymraeg...?4 > > Mae'r pwnc yn ddoniol ond hefyd yn bwysig iawn. Mae'r sais yn cadw ar ei > taith o GLADDU'R IAITH A'R HANES Y CYMRY trwy destrwyio'r enwau > trefydd. Mae'r hanes Cymru hefyd yr hanes Prydain. Dylai fod > yn cael ei chammol gyda'r saison hefyd, dim ond wir? > > Translation: > > I showed the message from Geraint Jones to my husband, also a > Welsh-speaker. We are both upset with the decision of the local Council > to change the name of Bangor-Is-Y-Coed to Bangor-on-Dee only. What for? > We are living in Connecticut, when we got to the beach we go to > Misquamicut, along Poquonnock Road. Although the English conquered the > Indians in this area in the 17th century there is no demand to change the > place names. There are not many Indians here today but the places names > remind us of their history. > > A more important point. Why is there a need to show place-names in > Wales in English as well as Welsh? The English people manage to find > their way all over the world without changing the names of towns. Isn't it > just as easy to go to Tyddewi (St. David's) or to Tregroes (Whitchurch) > as it is to go Roma or Bruxelles or Munchen without bilingual road > signs? What if the Welsh were to ask the English to translate their > place-names into Welsh? Buckingham Palace would become in Welsh "Plas > Mochyn Neidio" and what about "Little Piddling"...? > > It's absurd but it is also a serious matter. > The English are continuing their efforts to bury the Welsh language along > with the history of the Welsh people by obliterating Welsh place-names. > But the history of Wales is also the history of Britain. Shouldn't it be > cherished by the English also? >