re comments by john williams--i think that the description you suggest for the assimilation of saxon and celt *is* the current thinking on the subject among university-level scholars, but it takes a hell of a long time for this kind of stuff to trickle down into school textbooks (especially when budgets keep getting cut--no-one can afford to buy new updated textbooks). re urien and his children--alfred smyth's Warlords and Holy Men: Scotland AD 80-Some Date That Escapes My Mind At The Moment covers this subject well. (when writing my dissertation on the romance of Owein, i kept looking for historical info under welsh headings, until it finally hit me that i should be looking under scotland. lights on, no-body home.) smyth is a very entertaining writer (and lecturer), too, and the book seems to be fairly widely available. leslie jones ljones@law.uoregon.edu