>the pronouns after the verbal forms, such as rydw i, maen nhw etc. >aren't considered to be the grammatical subject. This is contained in >the verb itself, which can and is used without an affixed pronoun. You bring up an interesting point. In any strongly inflected language, the pronouns could be considered superfluous, since they are constrained, if not uniquely determined, by the inflection on the verb. However, from the standpoint of exposition, I think I still prefer to refer to them as the grammatical subject since, 1. It does no harm to think of them as such. 2. The concept is more comfortable for native speakers of English. 3. My opinion is that it gives a better feel for modern spoken Welsh usage: I believe that the default is to use the pronoun, with the lack of a pronoun being considered a 'shortcut', rather than the default being the lack of the pronoun, with the presence of a pronoun being considered emphatic. I could, of course, be wrong about this. 4. Teaching by its nature requires simplifying complex concepts to the point where they can be understood by the average person of the level to whom the lesson is aimed. One of the best teachers I ever had would occasionally teach something and tell us that he's lying about what he's saying (since there were complications irrelevant to the point he was trying to get across). It's like learning the rule and then learning the exceptions later. > Also, though similar in form, the 'yr' before the verb can hardly have >developed from the article. It would be better to call it a pre-verbal >particle. I wish to disagree here. I'm almost positive that I've seen the following in formal writing, and it's hard to imagine how it could be anything other than the article (besides, I was told by a native Welshman that it was the article): Yr wyf yn mynd i'r Tad.... Y mae llawer o .... The article again appears before the verb in dependent clauses: Dwi'n meddwl y bydda'n mynd i Gymru eleni. so it's not too much of a stretch in my mind to assume its vestigial presence in independent clauses. What do other people think? > In negative responses 'nac' is the standard written form, despite it >being pronounced [nag]. As is the case with 'ac' [ag] ("and"), the >spelling alows one to distinguish between them and 'ag' and 'nag'. True. However, I was concentrating on spoken rather than literary Welsh. Teach Yourself Living Welsh uses 'nag', as do some other learners' books. However, I've changed the lesson to make 'nac' the standard written form rather than a dialectic variant. Wow, these lessons have generated more fun on this group than I've seen for a while! It's nice to be working with such a large safety net. I've also added Geraint's exception to 'ti' towards animals and a short discussion of the interaction of ti/chi with societal norms. --Mark