David A Quick asks about North Welsh "u". It's barred-i, a high central unrounded vowel. It's not as far back as Turkish barred-i, though. Some people, at least on Mo+n, round their tongue when they make it. "Teach Yourself Living Welsh" has IPA for all the Welsh sounds. Beth ydych chi'n galw "u" ac "i"? Mi ddysges "u-cwpan" ac "i-dot" -- mae ffrind o Rydaman yn dweud hynny ond rwy wedi clywed pethau eraill. - David Librik librik@cs.Berkeley.edu