180518.AA02611@mcrc> Subject: y wyneb/yr wyneb? Reply-to: nodine@mcrc.mot.com >One question on phonology. I have never seen a description of the sounds >of Welsh that used International Phonetic Alphabet. Since I don't have >access to a speaker from North Wales, can anyone tell me exactly what NW >"u" sounds like? I gather it is not French "u," but is it like the >Russian "y" in "ty" or the Turkish undotted i or Japanese unrounded u? I can't compare to the Turkish undotted i or Japanese unrounded u, but it is both similar to and different from the Russian "y" (yeri). It is the same general sound, but takes place much farther forward in the mouth. The Russian "y" is far back in the mouth, with the tongue somewhat cupped to make a resonant cavity. The N. Wales "u" creates the resonance slightly behind the palette with the tongue somewhat convex. The lips are in a neutral position in both sounds. At least, that's the way I hear it... Note: I am not a native speaker of either Russian or Welsh, but have studied both. >I also get the impression that there are lots of exceptions to the >"penultimate stress" rule. Is this so, and does anyone have a list of >the most common ones? There are not really so many exceptions. Here are the ones I can think of: 1. Monosyllabic words (obviously...) 2. Certain words that used to have two separate syllables merged into a single ultimate diphthong: Cymraeg, gwraig. 3. Verbs ending in 'hau': ufuddhau, glanhau, mwynhau, etc. 4. A few verbs with an explicit accent in the last syllable: gwaca'u. 5. Reduplicated forms of pronouns: tydi, myfi, etc. That's about all I can think of at the moment. --Mark