Roedd rhai negesau ar y grwp Usenet "rec.collecting.coins" yn diweddar yn trafod y pwnc "oes tywysogau Cymru wedi bathu ceiniogau cyn i Chymru colli ei annibyniaeth?" Roeddwn i'n meddwl bod y pwnc yma o ddiddordeb i bobl ar rhestr "Welsh-L" hefyd ac felly anfonaf i fy ateb i'r cwestion (yn Saesneg gwaetha'r modd, gan fod y llyfrau rwy'n son amdanyn nhw yn Saesneg ac dydy fy Ngymraeg ddim yn ddigon rhugl chwaith). Efallai bod pobl ar y rhestr yma yn gallu rhoi mwy o wybodaeth ar y testyn yma? [There were some messages recently on the Usenet newsgroup rec.coins on the subject of whether or not any of the native princes of Wales issued their own coins. As I thought this subject might also be of interest to people on this list I am forwarding this copy of my reply to the question - in English as the books I discuss are in English (a dydy fy Ngymraeg ddim yn ddigon rhugl, chwaith). Perhaps other people on this list could add more information on this subject?] imurphy@synonym.demon.co.uk writes: > In article <2013.9409200857@dust4> > Jonathan.Gardner@durham.ac.uk "Jonathan Gardner" writes: > > > I am curious as to whether any of the Kings, Princes or Marcher Lords > > of Wales issued any coins in their own names during the period between > > the Norman invasion of England in 1066 and the final unification of > > Wales with England in 1536. > There is a half a chapter on numismatics in the book _Medieval Wales by R. Ian Jack. London: Hodder & Stoughton, 1972._ ISBN 0 340 12694 9. He has a couple of pages on the coin struck for Hywel Dda in the 10th century and briefly discusses claims that other Welsh princes issued coins. The only one of these that Jack attaches much credence to is a report by Edward Lhuyd in 1698 that the Bishop of Bangor told him that one of his relations had possessed a coin issued by Llewelyn ab Iorwerth, or Llywelyn the Great, (who became Prince of Gwynedd in about 1197 and extended his rule over much of the rest of Wales in the next two decades, his reign ending with his death in 1240). Lhyud said that the Bishop (whose knowledge of Old Welsh was claimed by Lhyud himself to be even greater than his own) had shown the coin to many of his acquaintances who confirmed his story. Lhuyd's account seems to imply that the coin had unfortunately been lost by the time he was told the story. Jack is much more sceptical of claims for coin production by other Welsh princes and concludes his discussion of the minting activities of native princes thus: "the evidence amounts to one virtually certain coin, one very doubtful coin of a doubtful prince, one well-attested lost piece of Llywelyn the Great and some lost triangular curiosities. With Norman and Angevin mintings in Wales, the evidence, though still uncomfortably scanty, is much more circumstantial." (page 201). Therefore it seems that independent Welsh minting never amounted to very much. Of course Norman and English rulers established mints in various parts of Wales and since the move of the Royal Mint to Llantrisant in 1968 Wales has produced coins not only for the whole of Britain but also for many other countries. For example in a new book on the history of money by Glyn Davies (cited below) the author notes that by the financial year 1981/2 the Royal Mint was producing coins for no fewer than 57 overseas countries. It should also be noted that although the native Welsh rulers did not go in for minting in a substantial way their Celtic forebears, at least in the part of Britain that subsequently became England, were considerably more active. A recently published book on the history of money by an emeritus professor of economics at the University of Wales (who happens to be my father) has a section on Celtic coinage. The reference is: Davies, Glyn _A history of money from ancient times to the present day._ Cardiff: University of Wales Press, 1994. 696 pages ISBN 0 7083 1246 2. Price #39.95 (Pounds Sterling). Pages 112-117 discuss the significance of Celtic coinage. The author writes (page 113) "traditional historians have tended to overlook the role played by Celtic coinage in the early history of British money." There is a paucity of written evidence from the period before the Roman conquest but "hundreds of thousands of Celtic coins have been found, mostly on the Continent, where hordes of up to 40,000 coins have been discovered. In a number of instances we have learned of the existence of certain rulers only through their representation on coins (though some are spurious)." Celtic monetary development is seen in its most concentrated form in Britain. Originally the Ancient Britons used sword blades as currency before they started minting coins. The earliest Celtic coins found in Britain "were of pure gold, being direct imitations of the gold stater of Phillip II of Macedon...the spread of knowledge of such coinage is...generally held to be the result of migration and in particular the use of Celtic mercenaries by Philip and Alexander." "Britain was probably the last of the major Celtic areas of northern Europe to begin to mint, and the last to maintain independent minting before being overwhelmed by Rome." (page 114). The Romans, naturally, imposed the use of their own coinage in Britain. With the collapse of the Roman empire and the Anglo-Saxon invasion of Britain, minting and the use of coins ceased for a couple of centuries, the island reverting to barter and to using other standards of value. In his concluding chapter where he sums up the lessons of history, Glyn Davies describes how the quantity of money has repeatedly tended to oscillate between periods of excess, causing inflation, and periods of shortage restricting trade and economic activity. He notes that "after the fall of Rome Britain showed the unique spectacle of being the only former Roman province to withdraw completely from using coined money for nearly 200 years...the absence of money reflected and intensified the breakdown of civilized living and trading." (page 641). In an earlier chapter he gives a detailed account of the re-emergence of minting in Anglo-Saxon times. Although their first coins were copies of French ones the English soon became masters of the art and English coins became models to be copied in Scandinavia and eastern Europe. The production and diffusion of Saxon coins was given an immense boost by the Viking invasions. In order to buy off the invaders the English mints produced huge quantities of silver coins for the payment of Danegeld. In Ireland too Vikings exacted tribute from the native inhabitants. On page 39 Glyn Davies explains the origin of the phrase "to pay through the nose" as coming from the unfortunate habit of the Danes in Ireland in the 9th Century who slit the noses of those unable or unwilling to pay the Danish poll tax. Wales lagged far behind England in the re-adoption of coinage, as shown by the paucity of evidence for minting by native princes. Another Davies (no relation this time!), R.R. Davies in his book _The age of conquest: Wales 1063-1415. Oxford: O.U.P.,1987_, points out that English coins may have circulated in Wales to some extent before the conquest, but even as late as the 14th century payment in cattle was still very common. The Welsh were by no means unique in using cattle as a form of money, though they were unusual in Europe in being relatively late in switching to coins. Glyn Davies in his _History of money_ has three pages on the use of cattle as money (pages 41-44). He describes cattle as mankind's "first working capital asset" (page 41). The origins of several English words provide evidence for the importance of cattle in this connection. The author points out that the words "capital", "chattels" and "cattle" have a common root. Similarly "pecuniary" comes from the Latin word for cattle "pecus". Glyn Davies also notes that in Welsh the word "da" used as an adjective means "good" but used as a noun means both "cattle" and "goods". However, in countries where cattle were used as money their role as a unit of account was generally more important than their use as a means of payment. As the author points out, "one should not confuse the abstract concept of an ox as a unit of account or standard of value, which is its essential but not only monetary function, with its admittedly cumbersome physical form. Once that is realized (a position quickly reached by primitive man if not yet by all economists or anthropologists), the inclusion of cattle as money is easily accepted, in practice and logic." (Page 41). He also points out that until well into the present century the Kirghiz of the Russian steppes used horses as their main monetary unit with sheep as a subsidiary unit. Small change was given in lambskins. The use of cattle as money is not restricted to the remote past either. Certain African tribes, e.g. the Kikuyu, have regarded cattle as money until very recently and the author observes (page 43) that attachment to cattle as a store of wealth has deletrious environmental consequences making the development of monetary systems and institutions that satisfy the needs of the rural African population particularly important. Thus the tansition that Welsh underwent (much later than the English) to living and working in a society whose functioning depends on modern forms of money, is one that has been repeated on a far vaster scale within living memory in parts of the Third World. Recently the importance of Cardiff as a financial centre has grown significantly - a point noted in the _A History of Money_. However, the role of the Welsh in the history of money has been a modest one compared to that of their fellow Celts - the Scots - who have played an important role in the development of banking, as befits the homeland of the one of the founding fathers of economics, Adam Smith. The significance of the Scottish contribution to the development of modern banking is another of the themes treated in the book. Roy Davies The University Library University of Exeter Stocker Road Internet Roy.Davies@exeter.ac.uk Exeter EX4 4PT UK