> > Do you know why it is (or was -- these constructions are rather > > archaic, aren't they) "pan ei carodd" for 'when he/she loved him/her, > > but "pan y'ch carodd" for 'when he/she loved you' (and not, as far as > > I know, *"pan eich carodd"; "pan y'm carodd", not *"pan fy carodd", > > and so on? "Pan y ..." suggests that at some stage in its history > > "pan" was not a (true) conjunction. Or maybe that there was in fact > > more to the prefixed/infixed distinction than I was giving it credit > > for (i.e. maybe it is basically infixed, not prefixed, in this > > construction, with "pan ei..." perhaps an anomalous replacement for > > *"pan ys..." or *"pan y'i ...") (??) > > According to "A Welsh Grammar" by Stephen J. Williams (1980) this > construction can also be used with other conjunctions, e. g.: > > Pa le y'th welais? "Where did I see you?" > > The difference between the first and second persons on the one hand > and the third one on the other seems to be a mere orthographical one. > T. Arwyn Watkins in his book on Welsh language (I only know the > German translation published as "Kurze Beschreibung des Kymrischen", > Innsbrucker Beitraege zur Sprachwissenschaft 71, Innsbruck 1992) > leaves out the apostrophy and spells ym instead of y'm, yth, yn and > ych. He also indicates in brackets that you could spell the ei of the > third person singular as y'i and the eu of the plural as y'u. OK: "pan" always was a true conjunction; m, th, n, ch are syllabified to ym, yth, yn, ych when following a consonant; and y'm, y'th, y'n y'ch are respellings of these. The original issue was whether there are grounds for distinguishing separate sets of 'infixed' vs. 'prefixed' pronouns, with different functions, mutation requirements, etc., as such (i.e. qua 'infixed' versus 'prefixed'. I don't think there are. Leaving 1 and 2sg aside for the moment, I think there is basically one set of 'preposable' pronouns, with a welter of spelling variation and phonetically conditioned allomorphy in each form. However, I do think the 'accusative' vs. 'genitive' distinction has some basis, and that "fy" and "dy" are exclusively genitive (just as "s" is exclusively accusative). That is, I think the primary distinction among 'preposed' forms is accusative vs genitive; prefixed vs infixed is merely phonotactics and orthography. Comments? ************************ Nigel Love Linguistics Cape Town NLOVE@BEATTIE.UCT.AC.ZA ************************