> ( Another question about shades of meaning. If I say "aelod o'r > ) gymdeithas", have I said anything in any way different from "aelod y > ( gymdeithas"? > > Yes. The former is the obvious thing, the member is a member either of > "Society" or of "the society". The latter is something else. At first > I could not think of what it was, but it is possession rather than > membership. The society has some ownership of the member, so perhaps he > is a member of something else entirely, but he is the one that represents > the society. Think of a member of parliament sponsored by Cymdeithas yr > Iaith. (It scarcely bears thinking about.) I see; I hadn't thought of that. OK -- how about these two: llong o'r Llynges Brenhinol llong y Llynges Brenhinol (What I'm after here is whether there is a point at which the partitive intersects with the possessive, so that the two come to the same thing, and can be used indifferently.) ************************ Nigel Love Linguistics Cape Town NLOVE@BEATTIE.UCT.AC.ZA ************************