Yiddish Mailing List, Issue #39 May 2, 1991 188 lines =============================== A bisl mkhile (Ken Kaminsky, David Sherman) Yiddish word-processing on micros (Noyakh Miller, Ari Davidow) [Ikh hob nokh gornisht aroistsushikn... ver vet epes shreibn? - DS] ------------------------ Digest-Message: 39/1 To: utai!augsburg.edu!kaminsky Date: Mon, 22 Apr 91 14:39:34 EST [I'm reproducing Ken's mail to me, indented, and my reply, in order to retract any insult that I may have caused Ken. - DS] > I really don't mind if you did not think the little joke I sent you was > funny (a minority view, by the way), because humor is, after all, a matter > of taste. I do, however, very much mind being publicly ridiculed, > especially by someone I do not even know. I found your remarks ("Ich hob > nisht gelacht" and "Dos iz a vitz?") insulting and arrogant, perhaps to a > fault. Please remove my name from your mailing list. I apologize for having offended you. I certainly didn't intend to ridicule you. My comments were directed at the joke, not at you, but I understand how it came across, and I'm sorry for that. I certainly agree that humour is a matter of taste, so it's often inappropriate to criticize it, but it really seemed to me that there was very little in your joke. Unless I missed something in the translation, the joke consists of an alte yid standing up very slowly and a second one asking him where he's running to. (I'm sure it can be funnier as part of a skit.) The joke seemed to be almost entirely pointless. On reflection, perhaps I missed the point. The second alte yid functions at an even slower pace, so from his perspective, the first one is rushing. That certainly makes it a better joke. I apologize again for having offended you and would ask you to remain on the mailing list and continue to contribute. As I like to clear the air of any criticism of me, I would also like to include your message above, and this reply, in mail.yiddish. (I'm interested in what further comments it may generate, pro or con.) Do I have your permission to do so? David Sherman ------------------------ Digest-Message: 39/2 Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1991 14:27:37 -0400 From: kaminsky@augsburg.edu Subject: Vitz Thank you for your apology. I understand that you simply did not see any humor in the joke. Let me say what is supposed to be funny about it. It is the IRONY of using the word "running" to represent the action of the exceedingly slow-moving person getting up to leave. Anyway, when told with the right intonation and movement (which, I guess, cannot be conveyed with just the words), most people find it is pretty funny. I will be happy to stay on the mailing list, and I would not mind your printing our correspondence except that I do not want a referendum either on the merits of the joke or on your comments. Thank you again for your apology, which I appreciate. Ken Kaminsky ------------------------ Digest-Message: 39/3 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1991 16:34:39 -0400 From: well!ari@apple.com (Ari Davidow) Subject: e-HUG #4 (minor yiddish discussion) [This excerpt from E-HUG reproduced with permission - DS] *************************************************************** * The Hebrew Users Group occasional electronic newsletter * * Issue #4 16 February 1991 * * Edited by Ari Davidow ari@well.sf.ca.us * *************************************************************** 2. YIDDISH ON MICROS. SIGH From: David Neal Miller Date: Mon, 11 Feb 91 1:24:19 EST To: ari@well.sf.ca.us ... My main--make that only--interest is in _Yiddish_ word processing, DTP, etc. As you no doubt know, Yiddish is both a sub- and a superset of Hebrew graphemics. The pasekh alef, for example, requires an actual pasekh, even in informal correspondence between native speakers. (Indeed, it is considered a discrete letter, as versus a letter with a nikud.) Yiddish also must deal with the double yud, rofe over the fey, etc., etc. Though it is clunky as a word processor, copyprotected by a hardware device, non-WYSIWYG, etc., I have, until something better comes along, settled upon Multi-Lingual Scholar for IBM-compatible Yiddish word processing. Perhaps something better already has come along? For Macintosh word processing, nothing has really struck my fancy. I'm using Rav-Ktav experimentally, but not liking it much. Surprisingly, MLS permits easy keyboard remapping (so that I can get the Yiddish letters near their equivalents in standard romanization), but none of the Macintosh programs I've seen (MacInHebrew, Mousewrite/Akhbar, Rav-Ktav) have keyboard-editing facilities. (The Hebrew system used with Rav-Ktav might itself have editable keyboards, but this strains/goes beyond my limited competence with the Mac.) Enough babbling: this should give you a rough idea of the concerns I have. Thanks in advance for your initiative, and all best, Dovid ------------------------ REPLY: [from Ari Davidow] I read your comments about yiddish with great delight--I have long been aware of the special problems posed by yiddish (special only in that keyboard designers and program designers are always surprised to learn about the extra characters required by the language), and any extra information is lovely. For now, Gamma Productions (MLS) is the =only= company on any machine of which I am aware, to consider the question of yiddish characters--they even have characters in their standard set that no one but the followers of a New York professor uses! (As an aside, however, the "Hebrew Holidays" set of characters from FontWorld uses the MLS Hebrew phonetic mapping and character set. As I noted in EHUG #2, this set of fonts is not designed for word processing.) Keyboard remapping on the Mac is not terribly hard, and there is a product called "KeyMeleon" that makes it relatively simple. Future systems will also make it easy. Unfortunately, the Mac Hebrew spec as it exists makes no provision whatsoever for Yiddish characters. I am hoping to find out more in the next few days (by coincidence). As things stand, the only way to get yiddish on a Mac is to use RavKtav (or soon, Nisus Hebrew) with a customized font which Davka Corporation can provide. I have heard mixed reports, however, on Davka's Yiddish support, so I have no way of knowing whether or not to recommend it. Is there a standard Yiddish keyboard mapping? Does anyone out there have better information on Yiddish tools on microcomputers? ari Gamma Productions Multi-Lingual Scholar (PC) and fonts 710 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 609 Santa Monica, CA 90401 Tel: 213-394-8622 Davka Corporation AllScript (aka RavKtav) and Yiddish fonts (Mac) 7074 N. Western Ave. Chicago, IL 60645 Tel: 800-621-8227 (IL, int'l, call 312-465-4070) Avenue Software, Inc. KeyMeleon (keyboard remapping for Mac) C.P. 2085 Terminus, Quebec, Canada G1K 7M9 (418) 682-3088 ------------------------ SOF FUN NUMER 39 ------------------------ David (Daniel Moishe) Sherman, Toronto Moderator, mail.yiddish dave@lsuc.on.ca dave%lsuc@neat.cs.utoronto.ca uunet!attcan!lsuc!dave {AT&T sites}!att!lsuc!dave