Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 6.270 April 4, 1997 1) Idiomatic expressions (Alan Berkowitz) 2) "Mayn rue plats" (Shayne Train) 3) Was Sholem Aleichem ahead of Sigmund Freud? (Louis Fridhandler) 4) Shmir zikh oys di shikh (Eliyahu Juni) 5) Shmir zikh oys di shikh (Cherna Berliner Wolpin) 6) Vey iz mir (nit?) (Barry Goldstein) 7) Star-Spangled Banner in Yiddish (Al Grand) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:52:45 -0600 From: aberk@the-link.net Subject: Idiomatic expressions Could anyone shed light on the origin of the following two sayings: 1. Tzveytn tog yontif... I always assumed that the second day of the holiday was being refered to as a repeat of the previous. In that context, reference to a person as a tzveytn tog yontif always meant to me a person who was always "a day late and a dollar short." I'd like the definitions from others. 2. Ale montik und donershtik... Likewise, I always assumed that every Monday and Thursday alluded to the days (other than Sabbath that the Torah is read in the Synagogue and that in context it meant "on a regular basis," or words to that effect. Please tell me the origins. Thanks again. Alan Berkowitz Montgomery, Alabama 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:05:07 -0500 (EST) From: ltrain@chass.utoronto.ca Subject: "Mayn rue plats" Top of Adar to you! Is it my imagination, or is the melody to "Mayn rue plats" "influenced" by the Londonderry Air, better known as the Irish "Danny Boy"? Shayne Train 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 13:31:39 -0500 (EST) From: lfridhan@aol.com Subject: Was Sholem Aleichem ahead of Sigmund Freud? Sholem Aleichem (1859-1916) and Sigmund Freud (1856-1939) were contemporaries. As far as I can tell, neither ever mentioned the other. That Freud mined Jewish jokes for insight is very clear, but he seems to have overlooked the major Jewish humorist of his own era. Freud probably understood Yiddish (both of his parents were born in Yiddish-speaking areas of eastern Europe), probably used it in childhood, but probably abandoned it as he advanced his education. In one specific instance, Sholem Aleichem was ahead of Freud by about a decade. In his 1894 play, Yaknehoz, Sholem Aleichem has a character tell a joke to illustrate a psychological point. In 1905, Freud used essentially the same joke to make much the same point in his _Jokes and Their Relation to the Unconscious._ The point being that telling the truth is not a simple matter of conveying facts. How the listener receives facts must be taken into account. To paraphrase from Yaknehoz [Ale Verk Fun Sholem-Aleykhem, Nyu-York: Folksfond Oysgabe, XXIV, p. 118]: Faynkugl says: The greatest swindle is the truth. Two Jewish business meet on the train to Shpola, both going to the same town, both for the same business to the same big shot. Naturally, they try to hide business secrets from each other. One asks, "Where are you going?" "To Shpola," says the other. "Oh yeah? Dealing with a Jewish businessman is no joke I tell you. You are telling me you're going to Shpola because you want me to think you are going to Boybrik. But I happen to know you really _are_ going to Shpola, so why are you trying to mix me up?" Freud, mining the same source, used Minsk and Pinsk for the same point. That is, one businessman says to his competitor that he is going to Minsk to buy cotton. The other one replies, "You are trying to make me believe you're going to Pinsk to buy wheat, but I know for a fact that you _are_ going to Minsk to buy cotton, so why are you lying to me?" Freud went on to say, " ...Is it the truth if we describe things as they are without troubling to consider how our hearer will understand what we say?" [Jokes and Their Relation to the Unconscious, by Sigmund Freud, tr. James Strachey. New York: W.W. Norton, 1960, p. 115.] Sholem Aleichem probably eventually became aware of Freud's _talking cure_ that was all the rage in the early 1900s. In Sholem Aleichem's _Dray Almones_ (Three Widows) written 1907 (Ale Verk fun Sholem-Aleykhem, Folksfond Oysgabe, Vol. XXI, Monologn, pp. 163-212) the angry narrator seems to be unburdening himself to a listener with a psychological bent [Ir hot nokh gefunen dos rikhtike vort, psikhologiye - pss!]. The narrator reveals his own character and personality, despite himself. Louis Fridhandler 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:11:47 -0500 From: e.juni@utoronto.ca Subject: Shmir zikh oys di shikh In vol. 6.264, Marjorie Hirshan asked about the expression "shmir zikh oys di shikh," used in response to thanks instead of "nishtu farvus". My Kozhnitser grandparents often reply to "a shaynem dank" with "shmir dikh ows'n shank," especially when they're in a joking mood; I've always assumed it to be a cutesy rhyme, used for the alliteration and word-play, not for the content. Is "shmir zikh oys di shikh" a variation on "shmir zikh oys deym shank"? Or is "shmir zikh oys deym shank" is a cutesy version of "shmir zikh oys di shikh"? (It seems unlikely that they're unrelated, given that they're both used in response to thanks.) Eliyahu Juni 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:50:40 -0500 From: mandcwolpin@compuserve.com Subject: Shmir zikh oys di shikh Yes, this expression lives in my memory! My dear Papa to whom I was devoted often used the expression "shmir zikh oys di shikh ". I cannot fathom the many times I would ask him to explain this expression instead of a simple thank you and he would always smile and say "that's the way it is. ....no explanation!" ..... when I used these words with our vinkl there were always raised eyebrows and not one person who found a familiarity or rememberance of anyone saying this in lieu of a "thank you".....no one until Marjorie Schonhaut Hirshan's letter to Mendele .... and I thank her for asking because now there are two of us! When I pressed my Papa for an explanation he would agree that it was alright to say "Nitto far vos" for an every day "thank you" und azoy hub ich oysgelernt unzer vinkl. Zy gezundt un a zisn freilechn Pesach tsu ale. Cherna Berliner Wolpin Tonawanda, N.Y. 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:26:45 -0500 From: bag@shore.net Subject: Vey iz mir (nit?) I have often heard the expression "vey iz mir!" but recently came across a slight variant that is puzzling. In Sholem Aleichem's dos meserl, the boy's mother cries out "vey is mir nit!" when his father gave him etlekhe petsh. The translation I have (as a crib for my very limited Yiddish) just translates that as the usual "Oh, woe is me!". Is the "nit" a local idiom, or intensifier, or some sort of "wishing the woe away"? a dank. Barry Goldstein 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:04:29 -0500 (EST) From: savoyid@aol.com Subject: Star-Spangled Banner in Yiddish I tried to follow up on a recent posting regarding a Yiddish version of "The Star-Spangled Banner" in Adolph Mann's _Songs for My People_ copies of which were said to be available at the New York Public Library. I called the library and they said it was indeed in their computer. But when I went there it turned out that it was not on the shelf and was probably missing. I'd be grateful if the person who posted this would share the Yiddish lyrics with this list or with me personally. Al Grand ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 6.270