Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 6.284 April 13, 1997 1) Peretz's "Dray Matones" (Morrie Feller) 2) Peretz's "Dray Matones" (Peter Kluehs) 3) Peretz's "Dray Matones" (Michael Steinlauf) 4) Nivl-pe (Les Train) 5) Nivl-pe (Sam Weiss) 6) The Mendele Review (Noyekh Miller) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 22:45:08 -1000 From: feller@indirect.com Subject: Peretz's "Dray Matones" In response to Ruth Fisher Goodman's query [6.283], the three gifts of Peretz's story are: 1. a bloody speck of Palestinian earth, 2. a blood-stained pin from the the dying girl's leg, 3. a bloody yarmulke. Morrie Feller Phoenix 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 97 21:39:28 -0500 From: pelokoha@t-online.de Subject: Peretz's "Dray Matones" in mendele 6.283 ruth fisher goodman hot gevolt visn fun vos es bashteyen di dray matones in peretses doziker mayse. di ershte : a bisl farblutikter shtoyb fun erets-yisroel-erd. di tsveyte : a farblutikte shpilke aroysgetsoygn fun a farmishpeter yidisher tokhters fus. di drite: di yarmulke fun a farmishpetn un gepayniktn yidn. mit ot di dray matones an oreme neshome hot dergraykht di derloybenish tsu blaybn shtendik in gan-eydn. Peter Kluehs Wehrheim, Daytshland 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 21:59:33 -0400 (EDT) From: yivo3@metgate.metro.org Subject: Peretz's "Dray Matones" In Peretz's story, the little soul bribes the "oyfgekumene" tsadikim on high with three pieces of Kiddush HaShem: a bloody piece of a bag that contains erets-yisroel earth, which a Jew gives his life to protect; a bloody pin with which a young Jewish girl fastens her dress to her legs to preserve her modesty during her execution; the bloody yarmulke which a Jew, having run a gauntlet of blows, notices has fallen off his head, returns to retrieve and thereby subjects himself to a second, lethal, round of blows. The little soul gets into heaven, but a Voice now judges the gifts: Beautiful! Absolutely useless of course, but beautiful... Michael Steinlauf 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:28:32 -0400 (EDT) From: ltrain@chass.utoronto.ca Subject: Nivl-pe I agree that I have only heard it pronounced "nivl", and yet Hebrew grammar would dictate nib-bul (as in pig-gul, sil-luq,shim-mur etc.). Most interesting is the fact that yiddish tends to retain the dagesh even where Hebrew grammar would lose it - as in biklal, bikavune, bikoiekh, lipunim, likaf-z'khus, likol-hapokhes etc. (see Schaechter's Laytish Mame-Loshn, pp. 136 - 137). The only quick answer I can come up with is that the root is first encountered in the pentateuch (you don't see that word too often on the net) in the story of Jethro and Moses, and Jethro warns Moses that he will surely become farmisht eventually - the hebrew is "navol tibbol". I can only guess that the pronounciation may be predicated on that one occurence, and the v sound persisted. Les Train 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 23:28:30 -0400 (EDT) From: sweiss@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us Subject: Nivl-pe This is a clarification in light of the responses to my query about the Yiddish pronunciation of "nivl/nibl-pe". Examining Hebrew morphology to determine the pronunciation of a loshn-koydesh derived Yiddish word is irrelevant in this case, since I am not asking how the word _should_ be pronounced, but how it _is_ pronounced among native Yiddish speakers. My contention is that if the pronunciation with a "veys" is indeed the dominant one (or only one, or optional one) in _Yiddish_, this fact is significant when Weinreich only lists "nibl-pe". The Hebrew-to-Yiddish beys-veys confusion is a natural one since the passage of such words into the vernacular was mediated by printed Rabbinic texts, in which distinguishing consonant and vowel points are lacking. (Cf. the pronunciations Abrabanel - Abravanel - Abarbanel - Abarvanel, or Evnezre - Ibn Ezra.) This confusion was carried forward into Yiddish orthography before the days of YIVO standardization. Thus when Harkavy's Yiddish-English English-Yiddish dictionary defines 'obscenity' as 'nivl-pe' without a pintele, we still have no idea whether a beys or a veys is intended. In his later Yiddish-English-Hebrew dictionary the main (Yiddish) entry does have a pintele, but it's not clear if this reflects Yiddish pronunciation or if it is an orthographic convenience that allows for a ditto sign (~) instead of reprinting a different Hebrew entry. Sam Weiss Baltimore, MD 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 From: nmiller@trincoll.edu Subject: The Mendele Review In early January (6.190) the shames posted this: For a long time now Mendelistn have been asked to keep our readers posted about developments in the world of Yiddish and related fields and indeed we've received valuable reports over the years. The amazing thing is how much has been allowed to slip by unnoticed, unreported. For the world of Yiddish letters is wonderfully alive and our readers deserve to know it all. That was the proposal. But between proposing and getting something done takes time. Now at long last _The Mendele Review_ is ready. It's editor is Leonard (Yude-Leyb) Prager of Haifa University, a Mendelist whose work we all know and who brings to the job a level and breadth of Yiddish learning that most of us can only envy. I'm confident that under his guidance TMR will be an intellectual feast. _The Mendele Review_ will be mailed to all Mendele subscribers as a special supplement and at the same low price. Zol zayn mit glik un mit hatslokhe! Noyekh Miller ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 6.284