Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 6.285 April 14, 1997 1) Ashkenazic Studies (David G. Roskies) 2) Nivl-pe (Meyer-Leyb Wolf) 3) Nivl-pe (David Lidsky) 4) Yiddish in Yiddish letters (David Lidsky) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:25:59 -0500 (EST) From: daroskies@jtsa.edu Subject: Ashkenazic Studies These critical thoughts were inspired by a call for papers [Announcements (3/12/97)] for a forthcoming conference in Poland inaugurating a new field called Ashkenazic Studies . The positive aspects of this inaugural conference are fairly obvious. It offers a belated response to Sephardic Studies. It suggests a way out of the impasse of dedicating one's life to Yiddish language and culture. It is surely no accident that most of the "big name" academics in the field (including myself, I suppose), have hyphenated careers: Yiddish and psychoanalysis; Yiddish and Hebrew; Yiddish and modernism; Yiddish and politics, and so on. By redefining what we do in terms of "Ashkenaz," we broaden and deepen our scope. We also send a very clear message to the few historians of medieval Ashkenaz that they cannot ignore the study of Yiddish. The unspoken ideological agenda of "Ashkenazic Studies," however, is to offer a counterweight to Zionism. As the prose accompanying the Call for Papers makes eminently clear: Ashkenaz stands for language, culture, and land. The fact that it no longer exists is precisely what makes it so attractive. It is easier to claim than the messy geopolitical present. Ober nisht dos bin ikh oysn. To be a true scholar of Ashkenaz, there are five areas that one must master: (1) Khumesh mit Rashi, the foundational document of all of Ashkenazic culture; (2) Talmud with Tosefos, the core of the elite culture; (3) medieval Muser literature, the most popular form of Jewish self-expression throughout the history of Ashkenaz; (4) Mysticism; and (5) the Yiddish language. Of all these areas, which are inextricably bound together, I can claim some expertise only in the last. In this lifetime, I fear, I will never be counted among the true scholars of Ashkenaz. David G. Roskies 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:54:58 -0400 (EDT) From: wolfim@idt.net Subject: Nivl-pe The attempts [6.283ff] to explain away the pronumciation of _nibl-pe_ as _nivl-pe_ are probably in vain. Not only does Harkavy register _nibl-pe_, but so do Stutchkoff and Birnbaum. It appears that Sam Weiss is referring to an alternative compound from _nivul_ 'ugliness' + _pe_. _nivul_ is spelled with vov, rather than veyz.The interchange of _nibul_ and _nivul_ is is found in The Talmuds, though not in the compound _nibl-pe_. _nivl-pe_ is a Yiddish innovation for all we know. Meyer-Leyb Wolf 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 20:02:26 -0700 From: fdlidsky@netvision.net.il Subject: Nivl-pe The question of the pronunciation "nivl pe", as against "nibl pe", has been discussed in recent Mendele postings. Could the occurence of "nivl pe" in Yiddish be due to confusion of two different (though Even-Shoshan writes that they are etymologically related) Hebrew words? "Nibul" (nun, beyz, vov, lamed) means obscenity, repulsiveness etc. according to Alcalay's dictionary and from it there comes the usual Hebrew term for obscenity and its usual Yiddish cognate. "Nivul" (nun, vov, vov, lamed) is translated by Alcalay as disgrace, ugliness and so on. In view of their similarity in both sound and meaning these two words might easily be confused by a Yiddish speaker who knows Hebrew well leading to the pronunciation "nivl pe". Interestingly Tsanin, in his Yiddish-Hebrew dictionary gives the Yiddish form as "nivl pe", that is he spells the Yiddish word nun, veyz...(not nun, beyz...) giving the Hebrew translation as "nibul peh" (nun, beyz...). Perhaps "nivl pe" is the way that he grew up pronouncing the word. In addition to variation between individual speakers could there be an element of regional dialect variation in the use of the two forms? David Lidsky 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:19:44 -0700 From: fdlidsky@netvision.net.il Subject: Yiddish in Yiddish letters I have just sent a posting to Mendele in which I had to spell out various Yiddish and Hebrew words letter by letter. Everybody on the list uses this clumsy procedure when the need arises. At present there is no alternative. That is one reason why it would be helpful to be able to use the Jewish letters on Mendele. Another reason is that many of the postings on the list are written in Yiddish. People vary in the system of transcription which they use and this sometimes leads to difficulties. In addition there is a less tangible, perhaps sentimental, but in my opinion no less important reason for preferring the Yiddish alphabet. For the last one thousand years Yiddish has been written almost exclusively using the Jewish letters. It is a pity not to continue that millenial tradition on the information superhighway. And apart from those reasons I personally just can't get used to reading Yiddish in English letters---I'm sure other Mendele participants must feel that way. I know that this question has been discussed before on the list. At least one person has pointed out that there are Hebrew mailing lists (the ones I know of are Mikhtav and Doar) and that they use Hebrew letters. The system of Hebrew e-mail which they use could also be used for Yiddish. A few months ago I sent a posting to Mendele in which I suggested what I subsequently realised was a completely wrong-headed solution to the problem. It is clear that all the postings on the list have to exist in English letters (as they do now). Not everone knows the Yiddish alphabet and not everyone has a computer system which can display the Jewish letters. However, I should like to suggest the following alternatives: 1. That posters to Mendele be offered the option of sending (as an e-mail attachment to their message containing their English-letter posting) a file using Yiddish letters. This attached file could use an ASCII-based Hebrew format (as in Mikhtav and Doar) or else it might use a word processor format (such as that of Hebrew Word for Windows or Dagesh). 2. That if they wished to do so posters might submit a Yiddish-letter version of of their posting as well as the English-letter posting and the Yiddish-letter version would appear in the body of the list (using ASCII-base Hebrew format) for those are able to read it. One can envision other possible solutions such as a WWW version of Mendele using Hebrew HTML (a problematic subject in itself, I know). What do other people think about this? David Lidsky Jerusalem, Israel ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 6.285