Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 7.004 May 19, 1997 1) Pronunciation reversals (Ellen Prince) 2) "Big" (Ellen Prince) 3) Nogid vs. poretz (Ruth Kleinman Etkin) 4) More on a misguiding Romanization Guide (Zellig Bach) 5) Sholem-Aleykhems Stempenyu (Louis Fridhandler) 6) Yasher koyekh un a dank(Louis Fridhandler) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 21:59:21 EDT From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu Subject: Pronunciation reversals Thanks to Arthur Abramson [7.003] (I mean, Arn ;) ) for being 'prodded'. But now I'm more intrigued. The Yiddish speaker I've heard most in English (or in Yiddish, for that matter) was my father -- and he definitely had a bilabial fricative for w/v, not a labiodental fricative. I assumed that was normal, at least in his variety of Yiddish (Central -- Carpato-Rus). But maybe it was his dentures... ;) Loved the Wenvick Expressway story! Btw, I also pronounce it /vanwik/ not 'wike' -- but I left NY 30 years ago so what do I know. Actually, it's interesting how we do manage to adjust to foreign accents -- and of course I've got an anecdote about that too. ;) Once when I was about 2 or 3, I was home alone with my father (he of the Yiddish Accent; see above ;) ) and there was a terrible storm and I got scared. He took me to the window and made me look at it and told me how wonderful storms were, etc, and I stopped being afraid. Well, a few days later I was home alone with my mother -- born in NY and proud of it, no foreign accent in HER English -- and I asked her to tell me about /tande/. She replied, 'Velkhe tante? Tante Malke? Tante Nekhe? Tante Perl?' And I got impatient and said, 'No, the tande that makes the flowers grow! The tande that Daddy told me about!' Es hot gornisht geholfn. Finally I guess I said something like 'The lightening and the tande in a storm! Tell me how they make the flowers grow!' ... I still remember the look of utter horror that came over her face as she shrieked in English, 'You mean THUNder!!!' And I still remember cringing, both for myself and for my poor father... ;) Seriously, what is interesting to me about that memory is how unique it was -- it was the ONLY time I was ever 'duped' into accepting my father's English pronunciation, and then probably only because that had been the first time I'd ever heard the word. I bet little kids know right off the bat who's native and who ain't and never take the non-native's version as data if they've got a native's token that differs. Wouldn't you agree? It boggles the mind how they manage, no matter how it works. Ellen Prince 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 22:03:32 EDT From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu Subject: "Big" A dank to Sam Weiss -- and an apology to the English Forward -- re 'big' as a singular noun in the headlines of three English newspapers in NY and once in the National Lampoon. But wouldn't it be funny if they were all the work of one Yiddish-speaking headline writer...and his son at Harvard? [Just kidding. Sort of. ;) ] Ellen Prince 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:18:29 EDT From: retkin@juno.com Subject: Nogid vs. poretz For my first foray into Mendele I'll leave the linguistic differences between nogid and poretz (vol. 6.301 Mendy Fleigler) to the experts. But I just couldn't resist the opportunity to find out if anyone out there ever used the word poretz (which I understood, even as a little child meant someone _rich_) as we did in my family in Brooklyn. When we said the motzi at the beginning of a meal we ended with:......hamotzi lekhem min ha'aretz....ess vi a poretz! My parents were from Poland (Warsaw and Rozan) and I don't know if that was a local Polish custom or just a family thing but I have never met anyone who ever included that line in the blessing. Does it sound familiar to anyone? Ruth Kleinman Etkin 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:03:22 -0400 (EDT) From: zellig@aol.com Subject: More on a misguiding Romanization Guide Further to my critique (6.303,2) of Freydl Cielak's personally-constructed Romanization Guide: In her post (6.291,2) she advises: When one needs the sound of alef, as in "cat," add an /h/ after the letter /a/. What for? (Is it like a visit to the doctor: "Open your mouth and say 'Ah'?...) She also offers two examples of her proposed /a + h/ spellings: "mahyn" and "dahyn," supposedly for the simply and correctly spelled 'mayn,' 'dayn' [mine, yours]. This would certainly complicate matters, especially for the beginners-level of her Briv-Fraynd Club, for whom her so-called Guide was intended. Not only are the added "shtume" (silent) /h's/ totally unnecessary, as already pointed out in my post, but her students might even tend to syllabicate these oddly spelled words and read them ma'hyn, da'hyn. In the same post she wrote that she is not sure if her transcription guide is the correct one "as I really do not know much about English phonetics." Respectfully suggest that when it comes to romanize Yiddish, one should mainly be concerned with the phonetics of Yiddish. When one undertakes to fix something without a basic grounding in the subject matter, one is liable to harm the very cause one professes to love. Zellig Bach Lakehurst, NJ 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:36:26 -0400 (EDT) From: lfridhan@aol.com Subject: Sholem-Aleykhems Stempenyu Mit a por vokhn tsurik hobn mir geleyent shmuesn vegn Sholem-Aleykhems _Stempenyu_. Es hot mikh dermont az ikh hob amol bamerkt etlekhe untershidn tsvishn dem ershtn nusekh (Stempenyu fun Sholem-Aleykhem, Dos Yidishe Folks- Bibliotek, Band I, redaktor Sholem-Aleykhem, Kiev: 1888; suplement) un dem tsveytn (Sholem-Aleykhems Ale Verk, Band 4, Stempenyu, Varshe: Folksbildung, 1903). Mistome hot Sholem-Aleykhem aleyn es _oysgebesert_ (azoy tsu zogn). In 1903 iz er geven 44 yor alt, in bestn gezunt, un zeyer gehit vegn di oysgabes fun zayne pyeses. Nokh zayn toyt iz gedrukt gevorn a driter oysgabe in 1918 (Ale Verk fun Sholem-Aleykhem, Band XI, Yidishe Romanen, New York: Folksfond Oysgabe, 1918, 121-254), a kopiye, kimat vort bay vort, nokhn tsveytn nusekh. Tsvey fun di dozike untershidn zaynen: 1. Vu es shteyt geshribn _Khmelnitsk_ (a shtot) inem ershtn nusekh hot Sholem- Aleykhem es ibergebitn af _Yehupets_ inem tsveytn. Rokhele di sheyne shtamt fun Khmelnitsk inem ershtn nusekh, ober fun Yehupets inem tsveytn. 2. Moyshe-Mendl (Rokheles man) redt fun a zeyde Menakhem-Mendl inem ershtn nusekh, ober fun a zeyde Moyshe-Mendl inem tsveytn. Khkires: 1. Khmelnitsk iz a nomen vos hot on a sofek aroysgerufn migl in yidishe leyeners. Yehupets (Sholem-Aleykhems tsunemenish far Kiev) ken aroysrufn a shmeykhele. Efsher, in 1903, hot Sholem-Aleykhem gemeynt az a shmeykhele zol klingen mer _Sholem-Aleykhemdik_. Der nomen Menakhem-Mendl hot in 1888 nisht geklungen azoy bakant far di yidishe leyeners. In 1903 iz der nomen farknipt un gebunden gevorn mitn bakantn Menakhem-Mendl vos hot oysgevaksn a luftmentsh, a loyfer, a dreyer, a nekhtiker tog farnumen mit alerley farfalene gesheftn. Sholem-Aleykhem, mistome, hot gevolt az zayne leyeners zoln nit vern tsemisht un meynen az Moyshe-Mendls zeyde iz geven a luftmentsh.. English translation: A few weeks ago, we read a few posts about Sholem Aleichem's Stempenyu and the English translations. I was reminded that I once noted certain differences between the first (1888) and second (1903) versions. Most likely, Sholem Aleichem himself made these revisions. In 1903 he was 44, in good health, and very careful regarding the appearance of his pieces. A third edition appeared posthumously (1918), a copy, almost word for word, of the second edition. Two of these differences: 1. Wherever Khmelnitsk (a city) is found in the first version, it has become Yehupets in the second. The beautiful Rachel comes from Khmelnitsk in the first version, but from Yehupets in the second. 2. Rachel's husband, Moyshe-Mendl, speaks of a grandfather Menakhem-Mendl in the first version. The same grandfather is Moyshe-Mendl in the second. Speculations: 1. Khmelnitsk is a name that could only have evoked disgust in Yiddish readers. Yehupets (Sholem Aleichem's nickname for Kiev) may evoke a bit of a smile. Perhaps he thought evocation of a smile is more suited to the Sholem Aleichem style. 2. In 1888, the name, Menakhem-Mendl, did not sound so familiar to the ears of readers of Yiddish. By 1903, Menakhem-Mendl was a name that had become firmly bound to a character well-known as a luftmentsh, a muddled chaser after all kinds of enterprises fated to come to nought. Probably Sholem Aleichem wanted to avoid having his readers think of the luftmentsh. Louis Fridhandler 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:36:04 -0400 (EDT) From: lfridhan@aol.com Subject: Yasher koyekh un a dank Mir hobn geshept nakhes un loyn yorn lang fun der flaysiker arbet vos undzer shames, Noyekh Miller, hot undz geshenkt. Fun mikh (un zikher ale andere Mendelyaner) kumt im yasher koyekh un a groyser dank. Yetst kumt a borkhabe far Victor Bers un Iosif Vaisman. Louis Fridhandler ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 7.004