Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 7.031 June 30, 1997 1) Chabon's mia culpa (Mendy Fliegler) 2) Michael Chabon un Yiddish for Travellers (Adam Whiteman) 3) The Weinreichs' book for travelers (Eli Rosenfield) 4) Weinreich's "Say it in Yiddish" (Rick Turkel) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 18:05:14 -0100 From: emenems@juno.com Subject: Chabon's mia culpa Dakht zikh mir az khaver Chabon [7.029] hot farloyrn dem meynung fun Yidish, un zogt az der "traveler" darf dus bikhl af kapores, vayl men darf hobn a _land_ vu men redt NOR Yiddish....Er farshteyt nisht az unzer gantze velt iz unzer 'land', un vi mir geyen, ken men gefinen a khaver vos redt Yidish... un afile nitzn a por vertlekh fin'm bikhl...( ober nisht di vos ikh hob gefinen..) Her oys, khaver Cabon, etlekhe fun unz hobn nisht lang tzurik gepravet a nayem bukh vus iz a veterbukh far Khemie---in Yidish!! Ikh hof az es vet aroyskimen in a kirtzer tzayt...Un ver darf dus.....??? MIR darfn dus vayl dus iz unzer Yidisher Kultur.... Azoy darf men dus bikhl farn vanderer. (I suspect that our friend Chabon has lost his sense of what Yiddish is), and says that the traveler needs the guide book like a hole in the head...because one needs a _land_where one speaks ONLY Yiddish.. He doesn't understand that our whole WORLD is our 'land', and where one goes, one can find a friend who speaks Yiddish .... and can even use a few words from the guide book (not the expressions I talked about)... Listen up friend Chabon. A number of us have gotten together and created a dictionary of chemistry, in Yiddish!! (I hope it will come out in a short time)....And who needs it ....?? WE need it because it is our Yiddish CULTURE.....for the same reason the Guide for Travellers is needed....throughout the world... This is Yiddish Culture we are talking about, that is having its new uprising....Even though khaver Chabon doesn't see the forest for the trees, there is a whole forest growing out there, without a country..... (Lomir vayter geyn, mit di fis oyf di pleytzes....) Mendy Fliegler 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jun 97 21:38:36 EDT From: Adam Whiteman <74031.775@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Michael Chabon un Yiddish for Travellers Eyder ikh hob geleynt Michael Chabons entfer, hob ikh gemeynt az efsher dos iz geven oder a misfartshendish oder efesher hot er gehat shlekhte eytse gebers. Ober, nokhn leynen zayn zelbsfarteydikung hob ikh klor farshtanen az er farshteyt nit dem inyen in gantsn. Ven er zogt az nor losheynes vos hobn zeyer eygn land kenen hobn aza bukh.....nu vos ken men zogn vegn dem....siz poshet narish. Es vayzt uys az er farshteyt in gantsn nit ver un vu men redt yidish. Adam Whiteman 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 02:24:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Eli Rosenfield Subject: The Weinreichs' book on Yiddish phrases for travelers The Weinreichs were not alone! I have a 12-inch LP called "Conversa-phone's Round-The-Word YIDDISH Language Record Course" (label number CX-156). The record seems to have been mastered in July 1967. It makes no mention of customs or airports, but covers such items as registrirn zikh in hotel, post amt, baym dentist, u.a. My reaction to the record was, Where would I need this? (As opposed to making your vacation more enjoyable, or less expensive, because you could speak someone's language.) Eli Rosenfield 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:10:18 -0400 From: rturkel@cas.org (Rick Turkel) Subject: Weinreich's "Say it in Yiddish" In Mendele 7.028, A. Joseph Ross wrote: >Since they were putting out a series of phrase books for travellers, the >real mystery is why they saw fit to do a Yiddish book in their series at all. I don't find that strange at all. When I was younger it was common knowledge that a Jew travelling anywhere in the Western Hemisphere, Europe or Israel would be able to communicate with other Jews using Yiddish. I've seen it done countless times, with varying degrees of success, by people whose Yiddish is a lot less fluent than mine. And I can't begin to relate how many times I've been approached by strangers in Israel, Europe and North America asking if I speak Yiddish (I have a trimmed full beard and wear a yarmulke or a hat all the time). The bottom line is that it's easier to learn a little bit of Yiddish than to learn a little French, a little Spanish, a little Hungarian, a little Rumanian, a little Czech, .... You get the idea. Also, don't forget that the book was written almost 40 years ago, when there were a lot more Yiddish speakers around in places outside the USA and Canada. Then in Mendele 7.029, Michael Chabon , the author of the article in _Civilization_ that caused all this ruckus, wrote: >People who get the piece recognize, first of all, that a book which >explicitly advertises itself, on the cover, in capital letters, as a >PHRASEBOOK FOR TRAVELLERS, naturally, logically, and commercially implies >the existence of a country to be travelled to. A country. Even after all the discussion of this article, including the author's comments, I'm still not certain what is meant by "getting" the article. If Mr. Chabon's article was so obscure that only a fraction of its readers "got" it, then it must lack some element of clarity. I suppose I'll have to hit the library and see if I can scare it up and see for myself if I "get" it. However, I have to take issue with the author's inference that there has to be a country where Yiddish is spoken in order for a "PHRASEBOOK FOR TRAVELLERS" to have any utility. It seems to me that this flawed inference is the crux of the entire problem for those of us who take issue with his article. I contend that, at least at the time the book was written, there were many places in the world where Yiddish was widely enough used that it would have been useful to have a smattering of Yiddish, perhaps not at an airline counter, but certainly for asking directions in the street or ordering food in a restaurant. Even today, many older residents of Crown Heights, Boro Park, Toronto, Mexico City, Buenos Aires, Antwerp, Vilnius, Riga, Bnei Brak, Jerusalem and quite a few other places are more comfortable in Yiddish than in the local official language. Mr. Chabon continues: > Where, in 1997, could you go that it would behoove you to know how to >say, in Yiddish, "Which way to the casino?" In my view this is a non-argument. By the same token, why bother learning _any_ foreign language if you speak English? After all, no matter what tourist destination you choose almost anywhere in the world, you can almost always find at least one English speaker whose brain you can pick for directions. On the other hand, I like to think that my life has been enriched by my fluency to a greater or lesser degree in over half a dozen languages and reading ability in almost twice as many more. >The second thing people who get the piece recognize, I think, is that >however many people are still reading, speaking, and enjoying Yiddish, and >however many young people are taking up the study of the language--however >vital is the spirit of Yiddish revival--something has been lost. Something >immense and profound. I don't know anything about Mendele and its ways. I believe Mr. Chabon is absolutely correct in this observation, and I'm certain that many, if not most, of the Mendele readership would agree with him on this point. >There is no nation to take the Weinreichs' little phrasebook to; for every >other language in the series, such a country exists. That difference >saddens me. ... and the rest of us as well. As for Mr. Chabon's unhappy correspondence with Ms. Beatrice Weinreich, I can only say that it is he who still doesn't "get" it. He may "love being Jewish" and "love language and humor" and feel that his "only desire was to report faithfully how the book made me feel, and the fancies it conjured in my imagination." Of course, no one can fault him for how he feels about the issue, but it seems to me that this feeling stems at least in part from his sharing the popular but quite inaccurate opinion that Yiddish has already entered the world of Latin, Sanskrit and Gothic. >As for the English speaking traveller, if I had been going to Israel in 1959, >say, I doubt I would have chosen an English-Yiddish phrasebook to be my >companion. Perhaps not, but my personal experience there ten years later indicates to me that it would have been far from useless. >The more I thought about, and imagined this country, the sadder I felt at its >absence, a sadness which --for me, the only person I ever claimed to be >speaking for--no amount of extinct Soviet republics, Chasidic neighborhoods, >and Yiddish preservation and renewal societies will ever completely abate. I don't think anyone can fault Mr. Chabon for these feelings; I would imagine that most Mendelyaners share many of them. What I took issue with in the first place was his apparent lack of respect for just how widespread and alive Yiddish culture was in Ashkenaz before it was eradicated some fifty-odd years ago. Now that we've illuminated the issue with our discussions and (hopefully) isolated those aspects of it that trouble us, perhaps we can agree to disagree amicably where our opinions diverge. I'd like to apologize for writing such a long response to these postings, and specifically to anyone I may have offended in so doing. I had no intention of boring people with my personal views; I was trying, as much for others as for myself, to isolate the cause of my initial revulsion, and apparently that of other people as well, at reading about the article in _Civilization_. Zayt mir ale gezunt un shtark. Rick Turkel ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 7.031