Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 07.081 October 21, 1997 1) The Nightmare Song (Itsik Goldenberg) 2) dukhenen (Elisheva Schwartz) 3) Indianer (Joachim Neugroschel) 4) finger in fist superstition (Gilad J. Gevaryahu) 5) Dav(e)nen (Alexis Manaster Ramer) 6) zol mir zayn far dir (Bob Hoberman) 7) Iolanthe in Yiddish? (Louis Fridhandler) 8) Jewish superstitions and non-Jewish concomitants (Meylekh Viswanath) 9) Vider Amol Indianer (Marjorie Schonhaut Hirshan) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:02:00 -0400 From: "Robert Goldenberg" Subject: The Nightmare Song Es kumt khaver Grand a groyser yasher koyekh far zayn "Koshmar Gezang," gedrukt in Mendele 07.079! An umglik vos khaver W. S. Gilbert hot nit derleybt dos tsu lezen. Er volt mistome geven gants tsufridn. Mit a mitl-nomen "Shvenk," efsher hot er farshtanen yidish! Itsik Goldenberg 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:34:02 -0400 From: Elisheva Schwartz Subject: dukhenen The derivation of this word, as far as I know, is from the Hebrew dukhan, or platform (where the kohanim stand during dukhenen.) Elisheva Schwartz New York 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:30:30 -0400 (EDT) From: ACHIM1 Subject: Indianer I'm surprised that Pamela Lapham [07.079] couldn't find "turkey" as a regional meaning for "Indianer" in the various dictionaries she consulted. The first volume of my old four-volume German-English/English-German Muret-Sanders lists "Truthahn" (turkey) as a regional meaning for "Indianer". Dialectal and regional meanings are not always included in desk dictionaries, so it pays to consult larger ones--such as the old Muret-Sanders: published around the turn of the century it still remains the finest and most thorough German-English dictionary--though obviously one would have to consult later lexicons for subsequent neologisms. Ms. Lapham might also have tried specialized Austrian dictionaries. Moreover, in Austria, "Indian" (without the -er) means only "turkey" without the ethnic meaning of "Indianer"--just check the 1974 four-volume German-English/English-German Muret-Sanders. Advice to all dictionary users: if you can hold a dictionary in one hand, it's probably useless for any complex research. As for Sholem Aleichem: one would still have to trace some kind of trade route for "Indianer" meaning "turkey". Even so, Sholem Aleichem, as an avid practitioner of the Jewish national sport--etymologizing--would certainly have been aware of the original ethnic derivation of "indik." Joachim Neugroschel 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:45:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Gevaryahu@aol.com Subject: finger in fist superstition Since we are dealing with "emunot tfeilot" I wish to add one from my collection. I. If you go on travel, a piece of garlic will be placed in the suitcase or in the talit/tefilin bag. It will be done for instance by a wife for a husband, or for the children. At home a braided garlic is hung for protection. I can speculate that the reason is that garlic has a long shelf life. II. If one left the house on his/her way somewhere, and realized that he/she forgot something in the house, it was dangerouse to walk back, therefore they called for someone from the inside to bring the item out. Gilad J. Gevaryahu 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:03:07 -0400 (EDT) From: manaster@umich.edu Subject: Dav(e)nen In reponse to Esther Goffstein, it is impossible that doynen could have changed to dav(e)nen. At best doynen was replaced by dav(e)nen. The two words cannot be related, as noted by Birnbaum. But another interesting thing noted by Weinreich is that he says that he once had a letter from A. Landau (with Saineanu arguably the creator of modern Yiddish linguistics) listing twice as many proposed etymologies as Birnbaum knew of. And crucially for me he mentions the d-b-b one, so it cannot be that Florence Guggenheim-Gru"nberg was the first to come up with this etymology, which I still regard as correct. The crucial point here is that only the d-b-b etymology acounts for teh actual form of the word in Yiddish. All others that I know of would give merely a similar form but not the right one. Alexis Manaster Ramer 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:11:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "R. Hoberman" Subject: zol mir zayn far dir In some Middle Eastern communities, Jewish and non-Jewish, the word qurbaan or qurbaana (which is obviously cognate with the Hebrew korban, Yiddish korbn/korbm) is used by itself or in various combinations to express the idea "May I be a sacrifice for ...", in other words, I would sacrifice myself for so-and-so's welfare, usually one's children's. Aramaic-speaking Jews and Christians say this, and I think Arabs, but I haven't been able to come up with references. Bob Hoberman 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:17:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Lfridhan@aol.com Subject: Iolanthe in Yiddish? Yasher koyekh, Al Grand. Who would have guessed that Iolanthe, a very British comic opera, could inspire Yiddish comedy? Al Grand (7.079, 7) accomplishes a tour de force in sustaining Gilbert's English rhythm and rhyme with only an occasional, slight compromise of Yiddish rhythm. As he points out, there are seven metric feet to the line, but to my ear, it is seven plus one. The eighth is a necessary rest for the performer (and reader) to catch a breath. I found it a breathtaking, refreshing, hilarious sprint to the finish line. I enjoyed it immensely. Thank you Al Grand. Louis Fridhandler Walnut Creek, CA 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:08:13 From: "P.V. Viswanath" Subject: Jewish superstitions and non-Jewish concomitants. Ellen Prince and David Sherman both recollect a superstition that forbad stepping over someone, particularly a young child. This superstition is alive and well in non-Jewish South India as well. Meylekh Viswanath Pleasantville, NY 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 17:40:28 -0400 (EDT) From: SHirshan@aol.com Subject: Vider Amol Indianer Der tate fleg zogn, "Az dray zogn shiker darf men zikh tsuleygn, afilu az men hot nisht getrunken eyn tropele vayn tzi shnaps." More than three Mendelyaner have deemed Dos Porfolk to be turkeys, so perhaps we should let them rest in turkey Valhalla. Yet, it matters deeply to me what one takes from a story, so here I go one more time. With my deep respect for Lou and his expertise regarding Sholem Aleichem, at the end of the story "the prisoners lay on the ground. Their still warm throats rested on each other..." Any way I try to humanize the protagonists, I cannot see even agile American Indians with necks long enough for their throats to rest upon each other. Lou states further that Sholem Aleichem calls them vilde mentshn, and American Indians, as we sadly know, were referred to as savages. But in the story, the keepers, the shoykhets, are called vilde mentshn, not the protagonists. Also, why would the Turkish shawl boast "that God would reward her for fattening such a pair for Passover"? Would two fat American Indians enhance the seder or the yontef? A zis, sheferish nay yor ale fraynt, Marjorie Schonhaut Hirshan Boynton Beach, Florida ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 07.080 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html