Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 07.139 January 23, 1998 1) "Dear Schmucko..." (Editorial, rated R) 2) Inhalt fun naystn numer "Yugntruf" (Sholem Berger) 3) Fisnoge, petcha, petse (Louis Fridhandler) 4) Check UYIP Re: Yiddish Computer Program (Mark David) 5) koch lefl (mendy cahan) 6) Mkayim-psak zayn (Mendy Fliegler) 7) sweater, sveter, shpenser (David Goldberg) 8) bagel lore (Cyril Robinson) 9) id for Yid (A. Manaser Ramer) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:43:18 -0500 (EST) From: The Editor Subject: "Dear Schmucko..." As a respectable media outlet with the headquarters in the United States, Mendele cannot stay away from the burning issues of the day. At the same time Mendele is not a tabloid, so in covering this topic we will strictly limit ourselves to the Yiddish linguistics aspect of the story. Here is the story: young public relations specialist M. allegedly addressed her co-worker (and possibly friend) B. in a private letter as "Dear Schmucko" (*). Now, "Schmucko" is not our hero's real name, it is made up using the anglicized form of Yiddish root _shmok_ and an endearment suffix -o. And here we cannont fail to see a felonious perjury against Yiddish grammar: there is no such suffix in Yiddish! It should have been -ele, or -chik, or even -enyu, but not -o (**). We hope that Mendele subscribers will join other concerned citizens in expressing their desire for better ways of exchanging greetings between consenting adults. We also suggest that every honest Mendelist, who has in her or his posession tapes with the recorded samples of Yiddish suffix usage, voluntarily submit those tapes to the special investigators for this case. (*) "Dear Schmucko, thank you for being, as my little nephew said, it was great to meet the principal of the United States." -- Michael Isikoff, Diary of a Scandal, Newsweek, January 26, 1998 (http://www.newsweek.com/ or http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/digest/daily/jan98/21/newsweek.htm) (**) -o sounds more like an Italian (tuleyne) suffix, which suggests a possibility of a certain Brooklyn-originated serious conspiracy. 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:05:12 -0500 From: "Sholem Berger" Subject: Inhalt fun naystn numer "Yugntruf" In naystn numer "Yugntruf" / In the latest issue of "Yugntruf" numer 88, detsember 1997 Editorial: Uriel Vaynraykhs draysikster yortsayt; der forverts Gitl Shekhter-Vishvanat: shpet-zumerdiker sod (lid) Sholem Berger: tsharlis avanture (dertseylung) Leye Robinson: dos goldene bergl; a vizit fun komet (artikl) Sheva Tsuker: Moshe Lemster (artikl) Hershl Glezer: sines-khinem fun amartsim (artikl) Shmuel Naydorf: "The Visual Dimension" (retsenzye) Refoyl Finkel: dos hayzele (lid mit notn) Leyb Bratover: a mayse mit a flash tey (dertseylung) Mikhoel Bashe-Rives: a velt mit veltlekh (artikl) Zelig Tsumhagen: dos falshe dorf (artikl) "mame-loshn 1997"--feygl shpatsirn (artikl) tikn-toes briv fun yidishn arbeter komitet; entfer fun nationaler yidisher bikher-tsentrale Mitglidgelt iz $18 a yor, $20 in kanade un meksike, $22 mekhuts tsofn-amerike. Far studentn umetum, $10 a yor. Sholem Berger 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:37:42 EST From: Lfridhan Subject: Fisnoge, petcha, petse Az me redt fun esnvarg arum a moltsayt iz avade zeyer an ongeleygter inyen. Iosif Vaisman git tsu a por verter fun Russell Harris (7.137, 7) vegn fisnoge oder "petcha" vos klingt enlekh tsu petse. Dos vort _fisnoge_ hob ikh keynmol nisht gehert fun mayne eltern, un oykh nisht fun feters oder mumes. Ikh gedenk dos vort petse. (Accent on the second syllable, first e is the schwa, second e retains the full value of ayen.) Der tam fun petse gedenk ikh nisht. Mistome hob ikh nit gegesn keyn petse (jellied calves' feet). In mayn zikorn shteyt a bild. Petse: a kalt, farglivert maykhl vos hot oysgezeyen zeyer modne. Az dos vort, petse, shtamt fun terkish iz avade interesant un, far mir, umgerikht. Efsher iz dos a yerushe fun amolike tsaytn ven der terkisher imperie hot geveltikt iber di balkanishe lender un ibern shvartsn yam. Ikh shtam fun Kishinev. [English translation] Talk of food around mealtime is a welcome topic. Iosif Vaisman contributes a few words from Russell Harris (7.137, 7) about fisnoge or petcha which sounds similar to petse. I never heard the word fisnoge from parents or uncles or aunts. I remember the word petse (Accent on the second syllable, first e is the schwa, second e retains the full value of ayen.) I don't remember the taste of petse. Probably, I did not eat petse (jellied calves' feet). I have a picture in my mind: a cold jelly that looked rather strange. That the word petse comes from Turkish is quite interesting and, for me, unexpected. Perhaps it's a legacy from those times when the Ottoman Empire ruled over Balkan lands and the Black Sea. I come from Kishinev. Louis Fridhandler 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:03:19 -0500 From: "Mark H. David" Subject: Check UYIP Re: Yiddish Computer Program In answer to Feygl Infeld Glaser's request for a Yiddish capable word processor, which I think of as an issue for many people on Mendele: as moderator for the UYIP (Understanding Yiddish Information Processing) discussion list, I am maintaining a web page with various Yiddish computer information. At the top of the page, I list the various browsers and word processors that can handle Yiddish. Please visit for the facts: http://world.std.com/~yv/ (Or e-mail me if you can't access this and want it sent to you.) Several firms are revising products and/or developing new products. Occasionally, some products go off the market. Checking this page from time to time should help you stay on track. Of course, I'd appreciate any information others have, and I welcome new members to join the list to discuss and/or hear about all the technical developments. The web page has information on subscribing. Mark David Brookline, MA 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 04:57:39 PST From: mendyc@netvision.net.il Subject: koch lefl a propos norman fruman's "koch lefl", i am reminded of another idiomatic description of a meddlesome person: vu a tepl, dort a lefl. mendy cahan 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:00:41 -0200 From: emenems@juno.com (Mendy Fliegler) Subject: Mkayim-psak zayn Khaver Ramer hot mir gegebn shtik arbet [07.137]. Nu, yetst gedenk ikh az mayn futer hot mikh gestrashet mitn vertl ven ikh bin geven a yingl....Hob ikh es gefinen in "A Guide to the More Common Hebraic Words in Yiddish", compiled by Steven Jacobson, Fairbanks, Alaska... Es meynt azoy:_ mekayim_ - to come to pass; _pask_ - a judgement. In other words: to pass judgement (on) - a warning - a 'day of judgement' for a person. The 'pask' terrified me!! Mendy Fliegler 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 10:02:29 -0500 From: david.goldberg@smtpgwy.mla.org Subject: sweater, sveter, shpenser Thanks Joachim for clearing up a long standing confusion for me. My father (Apt and Varshe) has always used the word shpenser for sweater (explaining that Spenser was a British firm that imported sweaters to Poland), and Harkavi defines shpenser as jacket. Probably the German use of sweater for knitted jacket helps explain the cross over. David Goldberg 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:01:19 -0600 (CST) From: Cyril Robinson Subject: bagel lore I am a recent lister and hope that this post is appopriate. It involves the history of the bagel. It started on a trip to Beijing where I came in contact with a people called Urghur (Ouighour), a Turkic Muslim people, origin in NW China Xinjiang province. They have a bread remarkably like the bagel, same consistency but with a depression rather than a hole and often covered with sesame seeds. I subsequently visted bakers in the area. Gerdas, as this bagel-like bread is called are made in ovens reaching about three feet into the ground-- the ovens made of reed, salt, water and clay. The gerdas are place in circular patterns around the walls of the oven. Wood or coals are placed at the bottom and doused with water through the baking so that the gerdas are baked in steam. I also discovered there is a bagel-like bread called a Guangbing in Fukien province, China. There are interesting questions: There were many contacts between East European Jews and Xingiang province through the Silk Route; the only article I know of links the bagel to the history of the pretzel, which is also boiled; there are linguistic links in the work for oven, tonar, which turn up in variations in various languages, for example, Tandoori, and similar ovens are found thoughout the region. On the other hand, there are no examples, as far as I know, of bagel-like breads between Xingiang and Eastern Europe. Such "drop-offs" could be expected if there were a connection. I am in the process of collecting papers on the subject and would appreciate any speculations, thoughts, stories, myths. The prime myth involves variations on the "invention" of the bagel by a Jewish Viennese baker as a thanks for Prince Sobieski's saving of Vienna from the Turks. Cyril D. Robinson Carbondale, IL 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:35:27 -0500 (EST) From: manaster@umich.edu Subject: /id/ for Yid No one seems to have answered this question. I am not especially knowledgeable about the dialects in question, but yes the spelling and pronunciation without 'y' are features of some eastern European Yd dialects aave nothing special to do with the words for 'Jew(ish)'. Any word starting with yi- should have a dialect variants with i-. Since, as I say I know more of Yd dialects elsewhre (esp. Western Europe), I have put my foot in my mouth, someone will I am sure correct me. A. Manaser Ramer ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 07.139 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html