Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 07.155 February 25, 1998 1) a shayle (Hugh Denman) 2) roms drukerey (sylvia schildt) 3) "Di Blayene Platn fun Roms Drukeray" (Sheva Tsuker) 4) Romm's Press - Rom's Drukerai (Miriam Isaacs) 5) Di blayene platen fun roms drukeray (Lisa Duhl) (Simkhe Drayer) 6) "di blayene platn fun rom's drukeray" (Hershl Hartman) 7) Mame loshn fun Feygl, a mekhaye! (Louis Fridhandler) 8) meaning of bufl (Pinchos and Channe Melnick) 9) A mayse mit manse/maynse/mayse (Elyet Hersh Gertl) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:00:05 +0100 From: Hugh Denman Subject: a shayle In Yehoyesh-Spivak the lemmata are given with the masoretic pointing. Words whose pronunciation is anomalous in any way are then re-spelled in square brackets. However, the word 'shayle' is cited in only one spelling with the first two consonants menaked with pasekh and khatef-pasekh respectively. This has the effect, of course, of regularly producing the familar pronunciation, but where does this pointing come from? Hugh Denman 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:22:33 +0100 From: creativa@charm.net (sylvia schildt) Subject: roms drukerey Dos iz take a rirndik lid - geshribn fun undzer oytzer Avrom Sutzkevern. Er hot aroysgegebn a plate mit yorn tzurik in velkhn er leyent for. Ikh meyn eykh az me ken dos gefinin in der tashme "Partisans of Vilna" geleyent fun a froy (Irena Klepfisch???). Hayor fayert men zayn 85tn geboyrntog, im tzu lengere yorn, mit gezunt un koved. sylvia schildt baltimore, maryland 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:40:32 -0500 (EST) From: SCZUCKER@aol.com Subject: "Di Blayene Platn fun Roms Drukeray" Dos lid, "Di Blayene Platn fun Roms Drukeray" iz geshribn fun Avrom Sutzkever un me ken es gefinen in zayn "Lider fun Yam-hamoves" vi oykh in "Penguin Book of Yiddish Verse" in Yiddish un English, redaktirt fun Weiss, Howe, un Shmeruk. Sheva Tsuker 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:02:17 -0500 (EST) From: Miriam Isaacs Subject: Romm's Press - Rom's Drukerai Ver es hot gevolt kenen di verter fun Avrom Sutzkever's "Di Blayene Platn fun Rom's Drukerei" ken men zey gefinen in etlekhe zamlungen fun zayne lider. In reply to the inquiry on the lyrics to a poem on Romm Press, it is a poem written by Abraham Sutzkever and can be found in anthologies and collections of Sutzkever's works. Miriam Isaacs 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:56:27 -0800 From: Lisa Duhl Subject: Di blayene platen fun roms drukeray Andrew Cassel askes in Mendele Vol. 7.152 about Abraham Sutzkever's ghetto poem, "Di blayene platen fun roms drukeray." A wonderful poem which Mendelianer and others can hear the poet himself reading with 12 others of his ghetto and subsequent poems on a fine tape available from the Smithsonian in their Folkways collection. It is the Folkways Records Album No. FL 9947, _The poetry of Abraham Sutzkever_. This is a very moving tape and to hear Sutzkever read his own poetry... unbelievable. The words are included in the liner notes, as well as annotations by Ruth Wisse. In regard to the event described in the poem, the melting of the lead plates from which the famous Rom printing house printed of the Talmud and other religious works, and the making of bullets from them by the partizans, I wonder if any Mendelianer know if it ever actually was carried out. I have read variously that it happened, that it was a plan that never could be realized, and that it was a fantasy. Here is the poem transcribed from Sutzkever's _poetishe verk_, band eyns, tel aviv, 1963, p. 335, originally printed in _di festung_. di blayene platn fun roms drukeray mir hobn vi finger geshtrekte durkh gratn tsu fangen di likhtike luft fun der fray-- durkh nakht zikh getsoygn, tsu nemen di platn, di blayene platn fun roms drukeray. mir, troymer, badarfn itst vern soldatn un shmeltsn oyf koyln dem gayst funem blay. un mir hobn vider geefnt dem shtempl tsu epes a heymisher eybiker heyl. mit shotns bapantsert, bay shayn fun a lempl-- gegosen di oysyes-- a tseyl nokh a tseyl, azoy vi di zeydems a mol inem templ in gildene yom-tov-minoyres-- dem eyl. dem blay hot geloykhtn baym oysgisn koyln, makhshoves-- gegangen an os nokh an os. a shure fun bavel, a shure fun poyln, gezotn, gefleytst in der zelbiker mos. di yidishe gvure, in verter farhoyln. muz oyfraysen itster di velt mit a shos! un ver s'hot in geto gezen dos klezayen farklamert in heldishe yidishe hent-- gezen hot er ranglen zikh yerusholaim, dos folk fun yene granitene vent; farnumen di verter, farshmoltsn in blayen, un zeyere shtimen in hartsn derkent. Vilner geto, 12tn September, 1943. a gezunt alemen Lisa Duhl [Moderator's note: the text of this poem was also submitted by Simkhe Drayer, and record reference by John Patten] 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:26:34 EST From: Hershl@aol.com Subject: "di blayene platn fun rom's drukeray" ot iz der entfer af Andrew Cassel's onfrage. dos lid hot ongeshribn avrom sutskever in der vilner geto dem 12tn september, 1943. dos lid af yidish un a (tsum badoyern, blayene) iberzetsung af english kon men gefinen in "The Penguin Book of Modern Yiddish Verse," Viking/Penguin, 1987, pp. 678-9. take a shod vos di ongeze'ene radaktorn (Irving Howe, Ruth R. Wisse, Khone Shmeruk) hobn oysgeklibn azoyfil trukene, ingantsn nit-poetishe iberzetsungen far dem bukh. Hershl Hartman 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:27:38 EST From: Lfridhan@aol.com Subject: Mame loshn fun Feygl, a mekhaye! Zeltn kenen mir leyenen, hayntike teyg, yidish vos iz azoy geshmak vi Feygl Infeld Glezer hot arayngeshribn vegn galer (7.152, 3). Ikh hob keynmol nisht gehert funem maykhl, un ikh hob es keynmol nisht gegesn. Kokhn aza maykhl zeyt oys shver, un farnemt a sakh tsayt. Feygl, shraybt nokh amol, un nokh amol. S'iz a mekhaye. Gevis, iz es a mekhaye far ale andere yidish libhobers. Trukene verter fun di akademikers zenen zeyer ongeleygt un nutslekh. Ober yoysher! Amol darfn mir leyenen epes heymish un geshmak. Louis Fridhandler 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:31:33 EST From: Penchan@aol.com Subject: meaning of bufl As a recent convert to the Mendele program, I want to express my appreciation and satisfaction in receiving the reports. I can remember my mother getting ready to make gefilte fish every Friday. One of the fishes she used she called bufl. Can anyone give me the English equivalent? A hartzign dank! Pinchos Melnick und zein froy Channe 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:59:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Elliot H Gertel Subject: A mayse mit manse/maynse/mayse Dem 17stn februar 1998 hot Dan Gilman geshribn vegn mayse/maynse. Az eyner vos iz yo a _shriftik_ redner fun yidish vos zogt zayn gants lebn lang, punkt azoy vi tate-mame, mumes, feters, kuzinen un avade zeyde-bobes, "manse" mit a /nun/ un on keyn /ay/ (khotsh kh'shrayb es "mayse" on a /nun/), halt ikh az Khaver Gilman hot a gor groysn toes az er meynt az me _muz_ (ikh zog "miz") alts aroysredn vi azoy me shraybt es. Az dos volt geven emes, volt ayeder gemuzt zogn "oyf" un nisht "af" oder "uf" oder "ouf." Ikh hob keynmol nisht gehert ayngeboyrene redners fun yidish vos zey zoln zogn "oyf" loytn oysleyg. Un azoy vi andere hobn do letstns bamerkt, voltn a hipsh bisl yidish-redners nisht gezogt "Yankev" anshtot "Yakev" vos iz take nenter tsum oysleyg. Me tut dos nisht af english, lemoshl s'rov mentshn zogn "gotta" khotsh me shraybt es "got to," ukhdoyme un azoy mit ale andere leshoynes. Tsurik geredt, af english shraybt men "indictment" nor me zogt "in-dayt-ment;" me shraybt "salmon" nor me zogt "sa-men;" me shraybt "victuals" nor me zogt "vittelz;" me shraybt "Lincoln" nor me zogt "Linkn" uaz"v. Far vos zol zayn andersh mit yidish? Me ken onnemen di klolim fun vi azoy me darf shraybn (ikh zog, "shrabn" lemoshl) a shprakh on dem vos ale darfn redn glaykh vi er fodert. In dem dozikn inyen bin ikh in gantsn maskem mit der bobe zayner (ikh zog "bube"). Ikh volt afile gevet az s'iz gants miglekh az, s'rov ayngeboyrene redners fun mame-loshn zogn "maynse" un afile "manse" un nisht mayse un avade hobn di dozike mentshn nisht keyn toes vi azoy Khaver Gilman farshteyt. Oyb emetser volt az s'zol zayn sholem: a "paks" tsvishn Mendelayt, far vos darf men baleydikn milyonen yidish redners fun amolike yorn un fun hayntike tsaytn (ikh zog "hantike")? Ikh meyn az er hot dos nisht gezogt bikhdey uns tsu baleydikn, nor az men hot nisht keyn visn, keyn farshtendenish, keyn tolerants un keyn derekherets far di der gor groyse farsheydnkeyt fun yidishe dialektn un vi sheyn un fayn zenen _ale_ dialektn fun mame-loshn, vi azoy ken men redn mekoyekh makhn sholem? Taytsh: As a literate Yiddish speaker and someone who has his whole life, just as my parents, aunts and uncles, cousins, and certainly my grandparents, too, always said "manse" with a /nun/ and no "ay," (although I certainly _write_ "mayse" without the /nun/), I think that Mr. Gilman is way off the mark when he commands strict obedience to his notion that one must pronounce things the way they are written. If this were true, everyone would be obliged to say /oyf/ as it's spelled /shtumer alef/vov/yud/langer fey/ instead of the actual standard "af" or "uf" or even "ouf" [like "oo" in fool]; I know of no native speaker who says "oyf." And, as several others here have recently stated, a goodly number of Yiddish speakers say "Yankev" not "Yakev" which is closer to the orthography. Why should Yiddish speakers be compelled to take a different route than speakers of any other language? In English, for example, almost all speakers, lest they really stop to pre-edit their speech, say "gotta" even though we all know very well, it's written "got to." On the other hand, in English we also write "indictment" but say "in-dite-ment;" write "salmon" but say "sah-min;" write "victuals" but say "vittils;" write "Lincoln" but pronounce it "Link-in" and on and on. While one can, and, in my opinion, should accept the standards of orthography, there is no corresponding obligation to speak the same way as Mr. Gilman appears to compel us to do (I write "zogn," e.g., although I say "zugn"). I'm with his grandmother 100% on this issue. I would be willing to wager that the majority of native Yiddish speakers say "maynse" or actually "manse" without the yud/y and not "mayse" and all these people, myself included, are not in error when we do so. I'm sorry, but someone who'd like to see a peace pact amongst Mendelayt doesn't seem to be offering "peace" when he manages to offend millions of past and present speakers of Yiddish. Although I believe that he actually meant no offense, if one has no knowledge, understanding, tolerance, or respect for the great variety of different Yiddish dialects and for their beauty and distinctions, it rings hollow, under these circumstances, to proffer an olive branch. Yours in manse-zugn, Elyet Hersh Gertl [Elliot Hersch Gertel] Boka-raton, florida [Boca Raton, Florida] ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 07.155 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html