Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 07.156 February 27, 1998 1) unter/inter = hinter/inter (Mikhl Herzog) 2) "mail" (Joachim Neugroschel) 3) "shmok" (Joachim Neugroschel) 4) Mel Poretz's memories (Bob Rothstein) 5) Khala khalelyas (Judy Baston) 6) Soviet Yiddish Writers (Hugh Denman) 7) Salcia Landmann (Al Grand) 8) linguists and linguistics (A Manaster Ramer) 9) Yiddish: a work in progress (Louis Fridhandler) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:56:40 -0500 From: "Mikhl Herzog" Subject: unter/inter = hinter/inter Concerning such expressions as _inter Lemberg_ (Lemberik, probably) or _intern oyvn_, the appropriate gloss of _inter_ is probably 'outside of' or 'behind' and not 'under'. We're dealing here with the preposition _hinter_ 'behind' which, with h-dropping becomes homonymous with the SouthernYiddish rendition of the preposition _unter_, i.e., [inter] 'under'. In other words, a good Polish Yiddish expression like [int@r d@ shtu:it] means 'outside the city'. Mikhl Herzog 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:29:18 -0500 (EST) From: ACHIM1 Subject: "Mail" I notice that some postings render the Yiddish "mail" as English "mile." This isn't quite correct. The Yiddish word, although very colloquial, means "league" and comes from the German word "Meile" = "league" (die Siebenmeilenstiefel = the seven-league boots in "Puss in Boots") and was ultimately a late Germanic borrowing from Latin "milia" = "thousands"). While the Roman "milia" was equal to 1,620 English yards, the German "Meile" is about five times the length of an English mile. However, the Yiddish "mail" is quite colloquial as opposed to the obsolescent "league" in English. If you're translating a vague distance, "mir zenen geforn a por mailen," I'd render it vaguely as "we rode a couple of miles." But if you're stressing distance, "mir zenen gegangen tsu fus a gantse mail," I'd be more punctilious and write "we trudged a whole five miles." Joachim Neugroschel 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:44:17 -0500 (EST) From: ACHIM1 Subject: "shmok" While Diane Wolfthal's excursus on the art historical phallic symbolism of tail, etc. is interesting, it has absolutely no bearing on the relationship or rather non-relationship (as demonstrated by Mikhl Herzog) of German "Schmuck" (jewel/jewelry, etc.) and Yiddish "shmok" (dick, cock). On the other hand, Yiddish "shmok" did enter German language and culture: the German author Gustav Freytag wrote a play called DIE JOURNALISTEN (THE JOURNALISTS), which featured an unsavory journalist named "Dr. Schmock." Presumably borrowed from Yiddish, "Schmock" must have already existed colloquially--otherwise the name wouldn't be comical. The character's name then eponysmously entered German with a new meaning: "a shoddy journalist". There was even a play by Carl Sternheim (I think) entitled DER SCHMOCK (THE YELLOW JOURNALIST). Much to my surprise, the reference books I've consulted state that the German colloquialisms "Schmoeker" (trashy book) and "schmoekern" (to read trashy books) derive from a Low German word (not Yiddish) meaning a "smoked-up book." I wonder, though, if Dr. Schmock's name played any part in the development of these two German words? Joachim Neugroschel 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:02:28 -0500 (EST) From: ROBERT A ROTHSTEIN Subject: Mel Poretz's memories Two more comments in connection with Mel Poretz's memories (07.143): 1. For two theories about the origins of _lakhn mit yashtsherkes_ see Mendele volumes 1.208 and 5.068. 2. In Russian one can say of someone who has died suddenly (nisht far keyne mendelyaner gedakht) that he or she has been "grabbed by Kondrashka" (_ego/ee Kondrashka khvatil_). This rather inelegant expression, it has been suggested, goes back to a peasant uprising on the Don River in 1707, which was led by a certain Kondratii Bulavin. ("Kondrashka" is a diminutive of "Kondratii.") Bob Rothstein 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:07:37 EST From: Jrbaston@aol.com Subject: Khala khalelyas? My father, who was born in Eishishok, about 35 miles SSW of Vilne, used a similar expression, which as a child I heard as "ah-le-ye-hus." Oddly I was put in mind of it myself only a few weeks ago when a friend mentioned that her family members, with origins near Bialystok, used to say, "Vayt vi Eishishok," as far as Eishishok, to mean the same thing. I have no idea what the origin might be, and have struck out with landslayt so far, as well as with Weinreich and Harkavy. Any help would be appreciated. Judy Baston 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:29:29 +0100 From: Hugh Denman Subject: Soviet Yiddish Writers With reference to Leah Zazulyer's enquiry [07.153], there are surprisingly few book-form translations into English of Soviet Yiddish writers, viz.: Dovid Bergelson, _When All is Said and Done_, tr. Bernard Martin, Athens: Ohio U.P., 1977, 310pp. [ISBN: 0-8214-0392-3] [= _Nokh alemen_]. Dovid Bergelson, The Stories of David Bergelson: Yiddish Short Fiction from Russia_, tr. & intro. Golda Werman, foreword Aharon Appelfeld, Syracuse U.P., 1996, xxxii, 157pp. [ISBN 0-8156-2712] [cont.: 'Departing' [= 'Opgang'], 'Impoverished' [= 'Yordim'], 'Remnants' [= 'Droyb']]. Der Nister, _The Family Mashber_, tr. Leonard Wolf, London: Collins, 1987, 688pp. [ISBN: 0-00-223257-x] [= _Di mishpokhe mashber_]. However, there have been many more book-form translations into Russian, German and, particularly in recent years, into French etc. Furthermore, if one takes translations in anthologies and journals into account the body of material in English and other languages is too extensive to enumerate here. If Leah Zazulyer would like to let me know more precisely what she is seeking I could provide her with more exhaustive listings. Hugh Denman 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:18:15 EST From: Savoyid@aol.com Subject: Salcia Landmann Just a brief comment regarding the rather ill-tempered attack in a recent Mendele posting [07.149] on Salcia Landmann's _Jiddisch_ (subtitled _Das Abenteuer einer Sprache_). The writer characterizes her books as "inaccurate" while at the same time misspelling both her first and last name as "Salicia Landman". So much for inaccuracies. He then says "she doesn't even get the Yiddish alphabet right." I'm looking at pages 370 - 372 _Das Jiddische Alphabet_ and everything seems to be quite in order. Finally Salcia Landmann is called "stupid" - even stupider than Leo Rosten! Here's where I REALLY take exception. Nobody can possibly write a book that's stupider than Leo Rosten's _The Joys of Yiddish_ !! Al Grand 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:01:24 -0500 (EST) From: manaster@umich.edu Subject: linguists and linguistics I don't see what those of you who are complaining about my attempts to keep the facts of Yiddish linguistic from being overwhelmed with myths are really so unhappy about. There are so many more of you and than of me--or even of all the linguists currently working on Yiddish historical linguistics anywhere in the world! The shoe is on the other foot anyway: it is you guys who are apparently trying to silence me, simply because you don't like being told some simple home truths. I never tried to censor anybody, but rather appealed to people to censor THEMSELVES and to stop spreading misinformation. And I must say that you are being successful up to a point: several people have written to me privately to endorse my views, but apparently do not dare say so on the list. Congratulations! A Manaster Ramer 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:03:24 EST From: Lfridhan@aol.com Subject: Yiddish: a work in progress I know from experience that even in academia, a spirit of mutual scorn and disparagement holds sway regarding a point in dispute. That is always destructive and unnecessary. That spirit has no place in any field, including so important an enterprise as educating each other in Yiddish language and literature. "Opinions are made to be changed - or how is truth to be got at?" So wrote Lord Byron in a letter in 1817. The poet knew something about the process of advancing knowledge, depth of understanding and insight. This applies to any field: poetry, politics, and especially including any field of scientific research. I boldly (feeling rather safe in this) include linguistics, especially in Yiddish. My own experience in academic scientific research has taught me that. Any idea, any theory, any result must stand rigorous tests. Anyone who won't face the test of his or her idea or result is simply holding on to unsupported dogma. The testing process itself is the educational process that yields knowledge, understanding, insight. Then we may build a new, higher platform from which to operate. Willingness to face testing is part of what I meant by appropriate humility in the face of the huge task in Yiddish research (language and literature, both). It is, after all, a work in progress. Proposals that turn out to be wrong (even in Yiddish linguistics) often have what is known as "heuristic value". Even the phlogiston theory had heuristic value because testing it revealed a better view of the true nature of combustion. Copernicus tested the Ptolemy scheme and so achieved better insight, but Copernicus did not sneer at Ptolemy nor have the last word. Copernicus made mistakes. However, what a wonderful, new, higher platform he built! As one result we have the Hubble telescope and its astonishing discoveries. The word "heuristic" comes from Greek "heuriskein," to find. Related to it is the word "eureka!" I have found it! Finding and reporting are fundamental processes in any research. Let's get to it, to continue to find and learn and share more and more about Yiddish language and literature without fear of making occasional mistakes. Louis Fridhandler ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 07.156 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html