Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 07.178 April 5, 1998 1) answer (Joachim Neugroschel) 2) Newsflash: _whore_ in Bulgarian (Ellen Prince) 3) Gratitude for facts about _G_ and _H_ (Louis Fridhandler) 4) Shvat nyi brat (Norma Brewer) 5) Andrew Cassel's problem (Mendy Fliegler) 6) vayoymer-dovid glitshn (Meyer-Leyb Wolf) 7) Vyoimer-dovid-glitshn (Yosef Gilboa) 8) seeking yiddish reference for chaim grade story (paul federbush) 9) Dopess (Meyshe-Yankl Sweet) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:20:05 -0500 (EST) From: ACHIM1 Subject: answer In regard to the English verb "answer," I have to disagree with my friend Morrie Feller. In English, "answer" is a transitive verb--unlike "tell" (e.g. "tell me the story," etc.) "Answer to" is an entirely different verb, meaning to be responsible to, etc. Furthermore, the grammatical status of an English verb has no bearing on a Yiddish verb like "entfern". There is no logical reason why a Yiddish verb should take the accusative or dative. "Entfern" presumably takes the dative because it derives from a dative verb in German: "antworten." Cases are traditional and have little logic to them. Yiddish cases are a bit simpler than German ones, since German has verbs that take a genitive object: "ich habe seiner vergessen." Granted, most of these genitive verbs have changed cases in contemporary German, but they're still interesting because in the original Indo-European language,a transitive verb took the genetive and not the accusative. indeed, the Slavic tongues have maintained an extensive use of genetive objects for transitive verbs. Thus Russian uses a genitive object for living beings and every negative transitive verb takes a genitive object. As I've said, there's no logic to the Yiddish dative for "entfern"--like many, probably most, features of any language, usage is an absolute beyond any reasonable explanation. Incidentally, there's one German verb that takes a double accusative--which is a rarity: "lehren" (teach): "Er lehrt sie die Sprache" I know of no such example in Yiddish. Joachim Neugroschel 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:11:12 EST From: "Ellen F. Prince" Subject: Newsflash: _whore_ in Bulgarian According to Roumyana Izvorski, an advanced grad student at in linguistics Penn currently spending the year at MIT and a Bulgarian, the Bulgarian word for 'whore' is _kurva_. Will it now be claimed that Yiddish may have infiltrated Bulgarian as it's been claimed to have infiltrated Old Church Slavonic? Ellen Prince 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:12:21 EST From: Lfridhan Subject: Gratitude for facts about _G_ and _H_ I thank those who have responded to my question about Russian use of _G_ where Yiddish and English often use _H_. The disagreements among the specialists is illuminating in its revelation of uncertainties. The facts are important. Whatever the uncertainties regarding origins, the description of the facts is most important to me. Given my interest in Yiddish literature and especially in the life, times and works of Sholem Aleichem, I am delighted to learn, and am educated by, facts of which I was not previously aware. The depth of the discussion about origins that has followed illustrates, in my opinion, how valuable it is to raise a question on Mendele. The relevant linguistic science is obviously in a higher state of development than most us (I would guess) have realized. The depth of the resulting discussion also illustrates that the answer to the question is a research work in progress. Uncertainties most probably remain. But that's the way it is for scientists who must have a high tolerance for uncertainty or they are lost. Yasher koyekh to the laborers in the field. It seems, there is much labor to be done. Louis Fridhandler 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Mar 98 21:47:22 GMT From: Norma Brewer Subject: Shvat nyi brat David Herskovic wrote another version of a frequent winter saying of my Booba ( from Chernike in Minske Gubernya) "Shvat nyi brat"= the month of Shvat (usually February) is no brother. I never heard the rest of the saying that he quoted. I understood it to be a Russian saying, as it would be "Shvat iz nisht kin bruder" in Yiddish. It was nice to recognise it on Mendele. Norma Brewer 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:19:53 -0200 From: emenems@juno.com (Mendy Fliegler) Subject: Andrew Cassel's problem... Tayerer fraynt Cassel, un take khevre mendlyaner, ir zolt lezn Shel Silverstein's komish bikhl far kinder. Dortn hot er a poeme vi koydem halt er zayn kop in zayn handt, un dernukh loyft nukh, un zikht es, vi es kayklt zikh in gas! (efser glitsht er zikh oykhet?) Mendy Fliegler 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:28:43 -0800 From: Meyer Wolf Subject: vayoymer-dovid glitshn In Mendele Vol 07.174, Andrew Cassel asks what the point of vayoymer-dovid glitshn was. I myself am hard put to understand what the point of ice-skating is. Be that as it may, as I understand it, glitshing is not enough; the sport is elaborated by "figures", e.g. skating the figure eight -- familiar to most Americans, from movies if not from experience. Jewish children invented figures of their own, based on their culture. I should have supplied the letter writer's own explanation: "_analogye_: in groys takhenen (montik un donershtik), az men kumt tsu 'vayoymer dovid', darf men zikh aniderzetsn un onshparn dem kop af der rekhter hant (nefiles-apayim) un zitsn azoy biz tsu 'yeyvoyshu roga' (16 psukim)." By the way, I did not spend two years researching the topic. I have been singularly blessed for the effort of cleaning for Peysekh by uncovering, almost every year, some piece of information which has been eluding me (except, of course, the etymology of davnen...). Meyer-Leyb Wolf 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:59:33 -0800 From: AJ Gilboa Subject: Vyoimer-dovid-glitshn I think I have the answer to that. "Vyoimer Dovid" is the opening of a posuk in Shmuel Bais (va-yomer david el gad, tsar li m'od; nip'la na b'yad Adonai uv-yad adam al epola) which is quoted at the beginning of Tahanun (the daily penitential prayer following Shahris and Minho) at least in minhog Ashkenaz. It is customary to recite Tahanun seated with the head resting on the left arm (or the right, if one has tefillin on the left) in a supplicatory position. Resting the head on the hand while sitting in Vyoimer-dovid-glitshn is clearly derived from this. Incidentally, Tahanun is also referred to as "n'filas apayim" - inclination of the face. I wish to acknowledge the help of my friend, Gershom Martin, in arriving at this insight. Yosef Gilboa 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:43:58 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Federbush Subject: seeking yiddish reference for chaim grade story the recent movie "the quarrel" is based on a chaim grade story "my quarrel with hersch ressanyer". i'm trying to find the yiddish reference, the name of the story and the collection it appears in ( in yiddish ). one of the books i own gives an incorrect name for the collection. thank you. paul federbush ann arbor, mi 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:56:58 -0600 From: "Michael J. Sweet" Subject: Dopess On March 17 Zachry Baker discussed Leo Rosten's fanciful treatment of "dopess" (an ineffectual person, fool) and speculates that the etymology may forward the following speculation. If this word was indeed known among urban American Jews, could it not have developed from "tipesh" influenced by the English "dope"? There is an obviously cognate word in Pennsylvania German, "dopish" meaning clumsy or foolish, which according to the Dictionary of American Regional English, is from the Std. German "taepisch." Meyshe-Yankl Sweet ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 07.178 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html