Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 07.194 May 11, 1998 1) poylish & paylish and then some (Mikhl Herzog) 2) Hassidic Yiddish periodical "Mayles" (Steve Jacobson) 3) Yiddishland (Gitl Dubrovsky) 4) -te suffix with non-Semitic stems (A. Manaster Ramer) 5) Adrabe - Aramaic or Hebrew? (Louis Fridhandler) 6) Zvi Kolitz and Yidishe Tsaytung (Lucas Bruyn) 7) Guggle-muggle (Bernard I. Kouchel) 8) His Yiddish ain't dandy but his sales sure are (Mel Poretz) 9) Mandy Patinkin's CD _Mameloshn_ (Al Grand) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 07:14:27 -0400 From: "Mikhl Herzog" Subject: poylish & paylish and then some Bob Werman asks (07.192) about the pronunciation differences between those who "refer to themselves" as _poylish_ and those that "refer to themselves" as _paylish_. The short answer is that there are probably NO speakers who refer to THEMSELVES as _paylish_. The term _paylish_ is a HYPERCORRECTION created by LITVISH speakers in the following manner: Standard Yiddish _oy_ in words like _broyt_, _groys_, _poylish_ is rendered _ey_ in Litvish (thus, breyt, greys, Peylish). Standard Yiddish _ey_ in words like _geyn_, _heym_, meydl_ is rendered _ay_ in _Poylish_ (thus gayn, haym, maydl). When the Litvak attempts to imitate __Poylish_, he "interprets" (either mistakenly or mockingly) HIS _ey_ (from Standard Yiddish_oy_) for Standard Yiddish _ey_ (which is rendered _ay_ in Poylish). In other words, he classifies HIS OWN "Peylish" with the words _geyn_, _heym_, etc. (which are _ay_ in Poylish) rather than with the words _broyt_, _groys_, etc. In revenge, the speaker of Poylish, for similar reasons involving other regular sound correspondences, refers to the Litvak as "lutvak" or, at an even further remove, as "lotvak". Is that confusing enough? Mikhl Herzog 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 06:56:10 -0800 (AKDT) From: JACOBSON STEVEN A Subject: Hassidic Yiddish periodical "Mayles" In the Apr. 17 issue of the Yiddish Forward, Dovid Katz discussed a Hassidic Yiddish monthly, "Mayles". Does anyone know the address and price for subscribing to this journal? Along this line, while there are several Ultra-Orthodox (and plain Orthodox) Yiddish newspapers and other periodicals published in the US, are there any such periodicals in Israel? Steve Jacobson 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:34:04 EDT From: GDubrovsky Subject: Yiddishland I think "Yiddishland," is a term made up by Harshav to metaphorically identify a world-wide community which spoke Yiddish, thought in Yiddish, and lived in it. There is a danger with taking metaphors too literally. I think it was not 'literature' but language itself that was 'everything.' Their language included and incorporated 'body language." A shrug of the shoulder, a movement with the hand -- communication skills. Yiddish speakers are masters of it all. I don't know what Harshav means when he writes: "Literature...was a substitute for religion and for statehood." The religious books were prime literature, and their readers endlessly debated points from them in Yiddish. These are just some thoughts from the top of my head. Gitl Dubrovsky 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:38:13 -0400 (EDT) From: manaster@umich.edu Subject: -te suffix with non-Semitic stems I am not sure but that Mikhl Herzog may be recanting too readily. To be sure, poyerte and the like prove that -te can be attached to non-Semitic stems (in this case, a Germanic one), but I am not sure that this can be documented for all of Yiddish or for the earliest stages of Yiddish. I suspect that from a Pan-Yiddish or proto-Yiddish perspective, such as I have been repeatedly advocating here in place of the narrow and ahistorical focus on Eastern Yiddish, Mikhl's original statment might be right (I am being cautious because I dont have all the relevant sources of information at hand). Incidentally, the interesting thing historically, and one whose significance for teh origins of Yiddish has not been adequately studied, is that the most securely pan- and proto- Yiddish examples of this suffix (which is of Aramaic origin) are with Hebrew stems. This should tell us something about the relationship between teh Hebrew and Aramaic elements which went into the making of Yiddish. A. Manaster Ramer 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:45:01 EDT From: Lfridhan Subject: Adrabe - Aramaic or Hebrew? Quoting Alex Manaster Ramer (7.192, 5) "For example, adrabe is written with a final alef, just as in Aramaic,..." That is how it is spelled in Weinreich. But not in Harkavy who spells it with a final hey, not alef. Three Hebrew dictionaries I consulted also spell it with a final hey. In the Folksfond Oysgabe of Sholem-Aleykhem's Ale Verk it is also spelled with a final hey. Seems that Weinreich is alone among sources I've looked at. Did Weinreich know something that others didn't? Did Yiddish take the word from Aramaic rather than Hebrew? If so, it seems unusual. Are there other examples? Louis Fridhandler 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 14:42:36 +0200 From: Marion Troia Subject: Zvi Kolitz and Yidishe Tsaytung I am looking for a (photo)copy of: Di Jidishe Zaytung (El Diario Israelita), Yom Kiper, Wednesday, 25 September 1946, pages 39&40, ed. Mordechai Stoliar, Buenos Aires. These pages should contain: Yosl Rakovers vendung tsu got (dertseylung); spetsiel far di yidishe zaytung fun Zvi Kolits. A Dutch translation (from a German version?) has just appeared, together with the translation of an essay by a German journalist, Paul Badde. In the Dutch edition appears "a facsimile of the reconstructed original text". It is not stated who reconstructed the text and in which way the text differs from the original. Paul Badde suggests that he owns a photocopy of the only existing original, which was destroyed on July 1994 when the library in the Calle Pasteur 633, Buenos Aires, was bombed. I would like to compare the original with the 'reconstructed original'. Any information on how to obtain the document would be welcome. Lucas Bruyn Anjum, The Netherlands. 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 12:17:31 -0400 From: Bernard Kouchel Subject: Guggle-muggle Can you speculate on the etymology of the term "guggle-muggle"? As I recall, "guggle-muggle", a concoction made by my Bubbe long ago, was a 'cure' for sore throats. If you know the ingredients, that too would be of interest. Bernard I. Kouchel 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:07:33 EDT From: EMPE Subject: His Yiddish ain't dandy but his sales sure are. Mandy deserves all the credit for his hit CD which, I understand, is a runaway best-seller in Europe. Doesn't this success highlight the thirst for new Yiddish entertainment, 1998-style, even if it's not by a famous show biz icon? I am not a Mandy fan. His shteemeh affects me like a nail digging into glass and his Yiddish...freg nisht. He trills his r's as though he were doing an imitation of Karen Aker doing an imitation of Edith Piaf. In my life I never heard any Yiddish singer rake those r's the way he does. But the material and the marketing are first rate and it's good to think there will be more, from Mandy, not to mention other Jewish entertainers who will be encouraged by this first huge success. MEL PORETZ 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:07:32 EDT From: Savoyid Subject: Mandy Patinkin's CD _Mameloshn_ In Mendele Vol.07.193, Marjorie Hirshan asks "Has anyone heard Patinkin's CD"? I have the recording and after one hearing am not inclined to go back to it again. I generally enjoy listening to Patinkin - but in this recording he overloads the songs with such strident emoting as to become quite unbearable. This coupled with such borscht-circuity numbers as "Take me out to the ballgame" makes the entire experience rather tiresome. As for his Yiddish pronunciation, I thought it was quite good for someone who required intensive coaching. Al Grand ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 07.194 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html