Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.003 May 20, 1998 1) 1. Yakhne; 2. ets/enk (Mikhl Herzog) 2) Yakhne (Roz Snyder Katz) 3) Yakhne (Joyce Field) 4) Yakhne (Marvin Engel) 5) Yakhne (Harold Black) 6) ets and enk (and enker) (Alexis Manaster Ramer) 7) enk and etz (David Fergusson) 8) "ets" un "enk" (Andrey Bredstein) 9) Swiss and Yiddish (velvl winocur) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 21:37:47 -0400 From: "Mikhl Herzog" Subject: 1. Yakhne; 2. ets/enk 1. Gertrude Dubrovsky (8.001) suggests a possible connection between _yakhsn_ and _yakhne_. There is none. _yakhsn_: 'a privileged person', 'a person with _yikhes_'. Feminine _yakhsnte_. _Yakhne_ is a woman's name, unfortunately stereotyped, pejoratively and, like the pedigreed name _Yentl_, rarely bestowed in modern times. Harkavi, in his Appendix of Names, suggests a connection between _Yakhne_ and _Yokheved_. Perhaps, but more to the point is its probable derivation from Middle High German _jachant_ 'hyacinth', 'jacinth' (< Latin _jacintus_ < Greek _huakinthos_). The derivation of Yiddish feminine names from the names of flowers is common. Take _Feygl_, for example. (SURPRISE!!!) 2. Avromyaakov Amkraut asks about _ets_/_enk_ (add the possessive _enker_). These words, rather than the second person pronouns _ir/aykh_ occur(red) in Poland, westward from a point somewhat east of Warsaw, and are geographically contiguous with their German cognates in neighboring Austria. They are usually associated with an imperative form that ends in _-ts_ rather than _-t_: _kimts/gayts_, rather than _kumt/geyt_. Thus, _vihin gayts ets_? 'Where are you going?' This _-ts_ paradigm is, historically, a "dual". Mikhl Herzog 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 00:20:47 EDT From: Miljoka Subject: Yakhne In responce to Gitl Dubrovsky (08.001): Regarding "Yakhne" it was very different from Yente, it implied a person who was very coarse and inappropriate, in other words, very uncultured. I learned my Yiddish in the Bronx and the family spoke a very fine Yiddish, no Americanisms, and no "dirty words" at all, not even putz. I learned more Yiddish at Camp Boiberik , where everything was in Yiddish and we had to write postcards to our parents once a week in Yiddish. Any more folks out there who are Boiberikaner? I would love to hear from them. Roz Snyder Katz 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 09:20:01 -0600 From: Joyce Field Subject: Yakhne My parents spent almost two decades in the Bronx before moving the family to the Midwest. My parents, both Galitzianers, frequently used the term "yakhne." But my mother-in-law, who immigrated from Bessarabia, to Windsor, Ontario (and never stepped foot in the Bronx), also used it. Joyce Field W. Lafayette, IN 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:03:40 -0400 From: marvin engel Subject: yakhne Gitl Dubrovsky inquires about the word "yakhne" and its affinity to the Bronx (8.001). Although I grew up in the Bronx and "yakhne" was quite common, I never particularly associated the two. My parents came from Lodz, but I'm certain that the usage was much broader than that. Yakhne is: gossip, shrew, also busybody, medler, coarse or slovenly woman, etc., all feminine and always heavily pejorative. I cannot recall any instance of cutsey usage. ven zi hut emitzer gerufn "a yakhne" iz di mame shoyn geven gut oyfgeregt. Marvin Engel 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:47:30 EDT From: hersh23@juno.com (Harold Black) Subject: yakhne I never lived in the Bronx. My family came from Poland by the way of Mexico and moved into Detroit. My mother loved used the word "yakhne." It seemed to designate all other women except herself. And indeed it meant a shrewish woman. I can't say why it isn't in the dictionary, but I can assure you the word was widely used. Harold Black 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 23:48:33 -0400 (EDT) From: manaster@umich.edu Subject: ets and enk (and enker) Avromyaakov Amkrau asks about the origin of these pronouns, to which we must add the 2nd person plural verb ending -ts, and the answer is that originally, in early Germanic, these were dual and not plural forms. They do not interestingly enough appear in any Middle High German texts that have come down to us, but they survived in certain dialects. There is a very small island in Western Germany but the real stronghold is in the dialects of Austria and Bavaria. In all cases however they have taken over the role of the plural. As far as Yiddish is concerned, there is a controversy about these. Bob King tried to use the existence of these forms in Yiddish as an argument for the theory he advocates (together with Dovid Katz and some others) that Yiddish originated in Bavaria. However, both Katz and independently Meyer Wolf and I pointed out that the fact that these forms occur in only a small part of Yiddish, which happens to be geogarphically close to Bavaria and Austria suggests that they are not a feature of Yiddish per se and of no significance for the origins of Yiddish. Meyer and I suggest that instead it may be reasonable to assume that Austro-Bavarian German speakers exerted significant influence on the shaping of these PARTICULAR Yiddish dialects, basically those of Bohemia, Poland, and some small neighboring areas (Mikhl can certainly tell us more about exactly they occur in Yiddish). One last point: as I recall the German dialects usually have forms which would be expected to correspond to *es and not ets in Yiddish, but I believe that Franz Josef Beranek, an important scholar of Yiddish some decades ago discussed some evidence for ets in Regensburg, Bavaria. However, this last point is somewhat vague in my memory. If anybody wants, I can try to check. Alexis Manaster Ramer 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 04:08:16 -0400 From: Into English Subject: origin of enk and etz In many Austrian dialects (for instance in Ka"rnten) they use ENK for euch. David Fergusson 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 14:56:52 +0400 From: "Andrey Bredstein" Subject: "ets" un "enk" In Mendele [08.001] hot Avrom-Yankev Amkraut gefregt vegn dem opshtam fun "ets" un "enk". Di dozike verter vern banutst in poylishn yidish, un shtamen glaykh fun Mitlhoykhdaytsh. (zet Harkavi, z. 351). In poezie (un bikhlal in der yidisher literatur) shpiln azelkhe verter vi "ets", "enk" un "enker" a stilistishe rol: Zogt der yid fun Yaroslav Un glet di vayse bord: - Ets zet di plump in mitn mark Un ot dem binyen dort? (Itsik Manger) Vaynraykh fundestvegn (fun zayn litvakishn shtandpunkt) bamerkt vegn ot di verter, az s'iz "a sofek tsi derlozlekh in der klal-shprakh". Nu, gey shpar mit a litvak! Andrey Bredstein 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 17:08:09 -0700 From: willie winocur Subject: rural Swiss and Yiddish manaster ramen: I appreciated what you wrote about yiddish linguistics but was reminded of friends i knew years ago from a Swiss village. When the sister, who then lived here in Berkley, was visited by her brother they spoke Swiss to each other that sounded very much like Yiddish. Unfortunately, I didn't have the opportunity then to ask about their Swiss village, but what is the relationship of rural Swiss to Yiddish? velvl winocur ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.003 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html