Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.009 June 4, 1998 1) Polymer particle called "knedel" (Shloyme-Khaim Cohen) 2) Yiddish and chemistry (Joachim Neugroschel) 3) swiss and yiddish (velvl winocur) 4) Svitzer Deutsch un Yidish (Ruchele Eissenstat) 5) Usage notes on "shtaygn" (Yankev Lewis) 6) Shlemil (Alexis Manaster Ramer) 7) Schlemiehl (Dan Leeson) 8) Source of misinformation about Yiddish etc. (Alexis Manaster Ramer) 9) Yiddish Names? (Lori (Lippitz) Chinitz) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:54:32 -0400 From: "Steve Cohen" Subject: Polymer particle called "knedel" Tayere Mendelyaner: While I am pleased to see that Yiddish has entered the filed of chemistry, we all ought not forget that chemistry has been a part of Yiddish for nearly a century. Articles explaining chemical principles in Yiddish were in books dating from the teens. Sol Feinstone's "Khemye" was published in 1920, and numerous chemistry texts at the high-school and college level were printed in the 1930s in the Soviet Union. And not only chemistry: physics, biology, and a host of other "ologies" are well represented in Yiddish literature. Technology has a strong grounding in Yiddish, and mathematics has been published. This is a point which I have raised several times in the past: There are a host of people debating linguistic and sociological issues in Yiddish prose and poetry. Why is it that scientific literature is getting short shrift? People complain about daytshme rish influences in many area of Yiddish, and yet one of the biggest areas to study on this subject is the sciences, particularly how the Americans and Soviets developed Yiddish scientific terminolgy differently. Also related to this is the question raised a number of months ago about new Yiddish authors, and where to publish such works (including a new Yiddish chemsitry dictionary I have edited, containing about 4000 terms). I saw no clear answers to my question. Am I to believe that there is NO publisher now extant who is willing to add to Yiddish technological literature? There are other Mendelists who are scientists on this forum. Are they not interested in this subject? -Shloyme-Khaim Cohen (a khemiker un forsher) P.S.: A sheynem dank di Mendelistn vos hobn mir geenfert vegn oyto-terminologye! 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:10:45 -0400 (EDT) From: ACHIM1 Subject: Yiddish and chemistry In regard to the subscriber who was happy that "yiddish has entered chemistry," I'd like to remind her that Yiddish entered chemistry--and chemistry entered Yiddish--many decades ago when Yiddish textbooks on chemistry (and other school subjects) were written for the Yiddish dayschools and the Yiddish equivalents of junior colleges in countries like Poland, Romania, Soviet Union, etc. Copies can be found at the YIVO, etc..... And you might also check out some of the Yiddish lexicons and other reference works..... Joachim Neugroschel [Moderator's note: Bibliography of chemistry and other textbooks in Yiddish can be found in Shtetl's Library (http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/library/term-yi.htm) -i.v.] 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 15:47:04 -0700 From: willie winocur Subject: swiss and yiddish Am I to understand from A Manaster Ramer's comparison of swiss german and swiss yiddish that when i overheard my gentile swiss friends speaking the swiss dialect of their village, that my impression that they sounded as though they were speaking a yiddish dialect was mistaken? is it possible that if it wasn't similar to yiddish then at least it had a rhythm or feel of yiddish? it was so long ago and my yiddish was so limited that i am left with the memory of a conversation that, at least superficially, reminded me of the odessa yiddish that i had heard at home in schenectady. velvl winocur 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:33:02 EDT From: Eissenstat@aol.com Subject: Svitzer Deutsch un Yidish Etleche yoren tsurik hob ich bazuchen der Schvayz mit mayn mishpoche. In Luzern, hobn mir gevolt ibernechtikn. Hot einer fun unz vos voint un arbet in der Schvayz gefregt oyf "Hoch-Deutsch" far tsimern, hot di baleboste fun hotel nisht farshtanen. English --farges derfun. Nu, hob ich probirt fregn oyf Yidish un getrofen! Trotsdem vos ich redt mit an amerikaner aktsent, hot dee froy mir gefregt fun velchn canton ich shtam! Zi hot unz zeier gut bahandlt tsulib mayn banutsen Mame-loshn. Ruchele Eissenstat 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:27:14 -0400 From: Subject: Usage notes on "shtaygn" I received the following note from an e-mail khaver in response to my question about a note of his in which he mentioned "a photo of [two great rabbis] shtieging together." [Forwarded message]: Thank you for your interest in the etymology of shtieging. According to my research a steiger can be roughly translated as a "climber". In the circles where I learned in Yeshiva, the term was often used to imply 'getting into the deepest depths of learning, in order to climb to the highest heights of torah" Thus to shtieg, would be to learn intensely/climb the ladder of Torah. Yisrael Yebrachiyahu-Bogoslavski, in his landmark study of the Yiddish language, referred to Steigen as: "going up", "climb", "getting "high", (hitrommemut), "going above and beyond". It is also often used as an euphemism for ambience, prevailing atmosphere, encompassing environment, or a style of life. Thus, it could be said of someone who devotes his/her life to Torah and Mitzvoth, yet does not go to shul "The yiddeleh may not go to shul, but his whole steiger is Yiddishkeit". Kindly inquire in the Toronto area, especially around chassidic/ultra orthodox, ashkenazic yeshiva circles, and inquire on how they use the term. Kindly share your findings. [End of quote] I'm extending the research to the Mendele khevre. Findings will be shared! Yankev Lewis 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:51:32 -0400 (EDT) From: manaster@umich.edu Subject: Shlemil Nina Warnke's posting contains what to me is a (indeed, the) most important piece of information, namely, that Chamisso himself, in a letter to his brother, Chamisso explained that "Schlemihl ... is the term Jews use for clumsy or unhappy people." I had assumed that the Yiddish usage stemmed from Chamisso's work (i.e., that he made up a character, gave him a perfectly innocent name and that the current Yiddish usage arose from the associations with this character). But he is clearly saying that he took it from preexisiting German Yiddish usage. This is, if I am not mistaken, a new and important finding. I would certainly appreciate a complete reference to this letter. Alexis Manaster Ramer 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 20:58:38 EDT From: "Dan Leeson: LEESON@admin.fhda.edu" Subject: Schlemiehl So far I have read several wonderful and thorough postings on the subject of Schlemiehl, but I want to focus on the one submitted by Joachim Neugroschel, whose postings are always thorough and informative. However, they are also occasionally a rebuke as this one was to me when he ended with the statement that "Leeson could find all this information in various dictionaries and other reference works." Probably so, Mr. Neugroschel, but the topic still seems to me to be appropriate for this list and I am sorry that you object to me posting what I could probably have looked up. And in any case, nowhere will I get such insights as I do on Mendele. In addition Mr. Neugroschel suggested that I said that the word be pronounced with an accent on the first and not the last syllable. I am afraid that either he did not read what I wrote carefully enough, or else I chose the wrong word to describe the French accent (aigu) that appears on the name in the libretto for Hoffmann. I know full well how the word is pronounced but was merely talking about a diacritical mark not a stress symbol. I used the word "accent" and that could be interpreted incorrectly, but no one who has grown up in a Yiddish environment would ever think of pronouncing it as "SCHLEmiel." Mr. Neugroschel incorrectly states that the librettists for Hoffmann were Meilhac and Halevi, though he does modify his statement by saying "if memory serves me." In fact, those two were the librettists for Carmen. For Hoffman the librettists were Jules and Pierre Barbier. But no matter who makes mistakes in submissions to this list, I don't think it is anyone's business but the list manager to give the impression that the material is unworthy for inclusion on the list and that the submitter would be better off doing the research on his/her own. I have fairly thick skin so I don't care. But some shy soul, trying out his or her basic Yiddish and receiving such a rebuke would be off the list in 5 milliseconds. That is not what we are here for. Dan Leeson, Los Altos, California 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:57:19 -0400 (EDT) From: manaster@umich.edu Subject: Source of Misinformation about Yiddish etc. I have been killing time reading Rosten's books on Yiddish and Yinglish, and I keep coming across some almost incredible blunders, such as the idea that mat 'checkmate' is of German (rather than Arabic) origin, that the 'th' pronunciation of the Hebrew tav without a dagesh (Yiddish sof) was invented by modern scholars, and so on. Interestingly, some of the fantastic "etymologies" we have had occasion to deal with here, such a Hebrew etymology for Yiddish kurve, also occur there--and I wonder if this explains their persistence. Obviously, many more people have read Rosten on Yiddish than have any direct experience of Yiddish linguistics, and his fantasies were of course endorsed by any number of household names whose praise is reprtinted on the back covers of his books. Alexis Manaster Ramer 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:15:51 EDT From: MaxwellSt@aol.com Subject: Yiddish Names? I am looking for a list of Yiddish first names as I prepare for the blessed event. Anyone know where to find one? Hebrew lists abound, but Yiddish? Thanks, Lori (Lippitz) Chinitz ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.009 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html