Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.015 June 19, 1998 1) What came before Yiddish? (A. Manaster Ramer) 2) chas v'chalila (Irving Young) 3) Folklore about Jewish Weddings (Pamela (pesa-leah) Brown) 4) Yehoyash's poem, "haHerev" (Bob Werman) 5) my personal yiddish-english dictionary (Itsik Goldenberg) 6) 2 more claims about the origin of davenen (A Manaster Ramer) 7) enk (Feygl Infeld Glezer) 8) Article about Argentine YIVO (IWO) (Zachary Baker) 9) Asch / Gottlieb (David Mazower) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:04:23 -0400 (EDT) From: manaster@umich.edu Subject: What came before Yiddish? Sam Kweskin asks: "Ikh zeekh material veygn di farshidineh l'shonim vos unzere yiddish folk hobn geret ven zey hobn gevoint in Europe, un eyder zey zenen arein in Deitschland oder deitsch-loshon teilen fun heintike Frankreikh. L'moshl, ver kenn mir dertseilen veygn Italkik, oder Frankish, oder Loez (Laaz) un Loter?" The problem is that there are several competing views of where Yiddish comes from, and accordingly different people will tell you different things. I suspect Mr. Kweskin is basing his formulation on the theory popularized by Max Weinreich, though not I think originated by him, that the Yiddish speakers were originally French speakers who came from France into the Rhineland. But it should be noted that the three loudest voices in Yiddish historical linguistics in the last two decades have been those of Dovid Katz, who says the Yiddish speakers originally spoke Aramaic, Paul Wexler who says they originally spoke Sorbian (a Slavic language), and Robert King,, who does not comment on this but does argue (like Katz> that Yiddish did not originate in the Rhineland but in Bavaria and so presumably he too would not assume that the Yiddish speakers could have been originally French speaking. Meyer Wolf and I and I alone have tried to argue with some of this, as well as point out that Weinreich and those who pioneered his view did not have very good arguments for it at all (in fact, I would say Weinreich himself had none at all and was in this instance speaking completely ex cathedra, which does NOT mean he was wrong, of course>. Add to this that when you red the fine print you find that Weirneich actually argued that Yiddish originated in two places simultaneously, the Rhineland as well as Bavaria, and that it was a different Yiddish in each place, although they somehow are supposed to have become one later. This idea has been recently revived by Katz, who forgets to note that it actually was Weinreich's and whose principal innovation is to say that we should onlu call the Bavarian lg Yiddish and the Rhineland one something else and that we should assume that the Rhineland language became extinct rather than it somehow mereged with the Bavarian one into a single Yiddish (although even there there is a complication because Katz says that Literary Middle Yiddish had elements of the putative Rhineland language>. I myself believe and have argued that all these claims and counterclaims have been based on inadequate, often laughably so, argument, and that the real work on these questions is just beginning. A. Manaster Ramer 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:26:44 EDT From: YOU2IG@aol.com Subject: chas v'chalila I guess I could look it up but it's more fun to get the variety and scope of Mendeleyan input and commentary. My query relates to the translation and derivation of "chas v'chalila" commonly used to mean G-d forbid when speaking of some undesireable eventuality. Chas v'chalila that no one will know. Thanks. Irving Young Elkins Park, PA 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:44:48 -0700 From: "Pamela Brown" Subject: Folklore about Jewish Weddings I'm gathering stories, proverbs, sayings and folktales related to or about Jewish weddings (shadkins, marriage contracts, the ceremony, etc. -- anything) for storyteller Estelle Solish, who will perform at RocklandFest this summer. RocklandFest is sponsored by the Rockland County Folk Arts Program. As a research assistant for the festival this year, I'd love some help from Mendele participants, especially if you have stories or memories to relate. You can help in two ways: 1.) Aside from B. Weinreich's *Yiddish Folktales, what reading materials or sources might you recommend I look at -- preferably in English, though Yiddish is OK? 2.) Do you have personal or family stories and memories you'd be willing to share with me? Any folktales/lore about the ceremony, participants, ritual, ritual objects would be great? What about proverbs, songs, sayings, or other relateable information from the U.S., Eastern Europe, Israel, where or whenever? Anything related would be immensely helpful. It will aid storyteller Estelle Solish delight and educate festival-goers about the wonders of and rich folklore concerning Jewish weddings and marriage events. I hope to hear from you. As time is of the essence, please E-mail me personally at pqb5110@is.nyu.edu Feel free to E-mail entire stories; the names and contact information of others who might be helpful; or snippets of information. If you would like me to call you, please E-mail me your telephone number and a few times I can reach you this week and next. Either way, please include your contact information, even though the information you provide will be used anonymously at RocklandFest, if that is your desire. Thank you Mendele for providing a forum for inquiries of this nature. And thank you Mendele participants for your patience and assistance with this project. Pamela Brown (pesa-leah) 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 22:57:27 +0300 From: Robert Werman Subject: Yehoyash's poem, "haHerev" Does anybody have the yiddish text of the Yehoyash poem, translated by Hava Alberstein to Hebrew as "haHerev" [The Sword]? Bob Werman 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 09:39:48 -0400 From: "Robert Goldenberg" Subject: my personal yiddish-english dictionary There were several inquiries and comments regarding on-line dictionaries, from khaverim Berger, Merkrebs and Baker, in recent issues of Mendele. My experience might be of some interest. In an attempt to expand my Yiddish vocabulary and reading comprehension, I have tried, whenever possible, to list unfamiliar yiddish words (in longhand) when I read Der Forverts and other Yiddish periodicals and books. When I have a few pages of such words, I look them up, and add the English translation to my list, including other information that I feel might be useful to me. As the list expanded, I found it necessary to put this on computer so that it could be alphabetized for easy consultation. To date I have over 3000 words in my "dictionary." This is a very personal selection, of words that I did not happen to recognize when I came across them. I must admit that this dictionary, or word-list, did not turn out to be the time-saver I expected it to be, and I do not consult it much. The problem is, obviously, I do not sit at the computer while I read, so it is faster to continue making lists as I read. This is not an ideal way for me to learn or to build vocabulary, but nonetheless I personally find it very satisfying. Since all this information is romanized, my computer list does not have the actual spelling of the loshn-koydesh derived words, just a notation, "H," to remind me not to try to spell the word phonetically. Perhaps some day I will train myself to use Refoyl's software, or Q-Text, but that moment has not yet arrived. I could probably make better use of my list if I printed it and kept the hard copy nearby as I read, but I can't justify printing it when I am constantly adding to it. Whatever the practical consequence of this endeavour, this opportunity to focus on Yiddish gives me great personal pleasure, so I do not begrudge the time involved. And I do notice an increase in my reading speed and comprehension, not as much as I would like, but enough to encourage me to continue. Itsik Goldenberg 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 12:48:49 -0400 (EDT) From: manaster@umich.edu Subject: 2 more claims about the origin of davenen I just came across the following: Apparently,Judah A. Joffe in his article "The Etymology of Davenen and Katoves", in the Proceedings of the American Academy of Jewish Research, vol. 28 (1959), pp. 77-92, proposes a Slavic origin for the word, basedon the word for "to present a gift or offering". This was the word Jews usedto explain to Gentile acquaintances why they would go off in a corner at theend of the afternoon - they were "davenen" - giving an offering (minha) of prayer. This comes from a posting on some list I found on the Web by Dr. Gershon Bacon, Dept. of Jewish History, Bar-Ilan University Elsewhere on the web I found a brief article: Jewish Languages -- European By William Brinner, where davenen is said to be one of the "elements of Zarphatic" (i.e., Judeo-French). A Manaster Ramer 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:51:00 -0400 (EDT) From: yiddish1@juno.com (Feigl I Glaser) Subject: ENK In mayn heymshtot Lodz is "enk" banutst gevorn vun di merste Yidn (un Yidenes) on bildung. In mayn heym iz nit derloybt gevorn tsu banitzn aza "gasn vokabular". Ikh bin geven zeyer iberrasht, ven beys a lektsye fun Englisher Linguistik in universitet hobn mir gelernt vegn "dem fardrislekh-groysn farlust fun gramatishe formen in der alt-Englisher shprakh --tsvishn zey di dual form fun du -- ENC. Fun dem iz klor az "enk" (un mistome oykh "enker" un "ets") shtamen fun alt Daytsh. Ikh veys nit ven un vi azoy zey zaynen arayngekrokhn inem Lodzer Yidish. Mit Khaverishn grus, Feygl Infeld Glezer 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:42:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Zachary Baker Subject: Article about Argentine YIVO (IWO) Dr. Saul Drajer, president of the Instituto Judio de Investigaciones (IWO) -- the Argentine YIVO -- has drawn my attention to an article that appeared in the Buenos Aires daily newspaper "Clarin" on Friday, June 12, 1998: "Falta plata para restaurar todos los libros de la AMIA" [There is not enough money to restore all of the books of the AMIA]. The article, which is written by Pablo Abiad, is a status report on the straits in which IWO finds itself, almost four years after the terrorist bombing that destroyed the Jewish community (AMIA) building, where IWO was located. According to the IWO's director, Abraham Lichtenbaum, the sum that would be necessary to restore the library and archival materials lost or damaged in the bombing amounts to $1,700,000. Among the costs itemized in the article are: (1) Replacement of 20,000 ruined books -- $700,000. (The article notes that the National Yiddish Book Center has pledged to donate 10,000 Yiddish books and the YIVO Institute for Jewish Research will donate books that it holds in triplicate.) (2) Shelving -- $350,000. (3) Conservation of the large collection of paintings by Maurycy Minkowski -- $183,000. The article notes that among the portions of IWO's collection that were most severely damaged as a result of the bombing were its newspaper and periodical collection, a collection of paintings, and audiotape collection. The rare books (180 volumes) and art albums were a total loss. It was also not possible to salvage IWO's Archive of the Spoken Word. According to the article, IWO has not received support from governmental or Jewish communal institutions (with the exception of assistance received from the National Library and the National Museums), but instead has relied solely upon the efforts of a group of 30 dedicated volunteers. In the course of their work the volunteers (under the supervision of Ester Szwarc) have made a number of interesting rediscoveries. For example, they have come across letters from Sigmund Freud, a zither that belonged to the singer Jevel (Khevl) Katz, and a collection of theater posters which document the history of Yiddish performance in Argentina. The URL for "Clarin" is: www.clarin.com.ar The article discussed here (which is in Spanish) can be found at the following URL: www.clarin.com.ar/diario/98-06-12/e-05501d.htm Zachary M. Baker 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:55:00 -0400 (EDT) From: david.mazower@bbc.co.uk Subject: Asch / Gottlieb Can any Mendele reader help with the following bibliographic query? I am trying to establish whether a slim Yiddish art monograph by Sholem Asch on the Polish Jewish artist Maurycy Gotlieb was ever published. The book is promised as one of several forthcoming volumes in a series issued in Paris by Le Triangle publishers in the 1920s. Among those that did appear were books on Chagall, Modigliani, Camille Pisarro, and Max Liberman, but a series of thirteen was advertised, including the book by Asch. The question is, did it ever appear, and, if so, is it in a library collection? David Mazower ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.015 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html