Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.025 July 16, 1998 1) "Yiddish in Canada" (David Sherman) 2) Afrikaner-Amerikaner (Allan E. Blair) 3) shvartze (Marvin Engel) 4) Neutral Yiddish words pejorative in English (Marjorie Schonhaut Hirshan) 5) farplastert (Fran Townes) 6) Farplastert (Mekhl Zlotowski) 7) farplastern (Arnie Kuzmack) 8) kneydlekh mit nishomes (elye palevsky) 9) "ober" = "or" (pe'rets mett) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 05:25:25 -0400 From: "David M. Sherman" Subject: "Yiddish in Canada" numbers from Canadian Jewish News article A few observations on the CJN article with statistics of Yiddish in Canada: First, the 1996 "5-year" census isn't a full census like the 19x1 10-year censuses. If I remember correctly, only a small percentage of people are asked to fill in the detailed questionnaire regarding such things as home language. This increases the possibility of error in either direction. For example, if our family was sent the "long form" in 1996 (I honestly don't remember whether we were, but I don't think so), we'd have reported 4 native Yiddish speakers using the language at home who were under the age of 13 -- and once that gets multiplied by the selection rate, there's a potential for a large impact of a skewed sample when the gross numbers are so small. (I'll leave it to the statisticians to tell us how large.) Secondly, Prof. Davids supporting conclusions didn't mention a couple of things. Toronto has a very large "black-hat" (or "ultra-Orthodox") community, but relatively speaking it's a less Yiddish-using community, in terms of young people, than Montreal. This is clearly reflected in the statistics re young people. For example, Toronto has a large Lubavitch community, but it is almost entirely English-speaking; our son attended the Lubavitch cheder for a couple of years, and he was one of only 2 boys in a class of about 13 who actually used Yiddish at home. I think Bobov is the only large community that actually uses Yiddish in daily life with kids; it's certainly not used in the playground at Yesodei HaTorah (the general black-hat boys' school) as far as I know. Montreal has larger and longer-established Chassidic communities that continue to use Yiddish, as the statistics showed. Finally, Toronto has a very high population of Holocaust survivors -- the Toronto Jewish community is very largely a post-war immigrant community. This explains the large percentage of seniors, without telling us much about the younger Yiddish-speaking population. Indeed, anyone wanting to do research today that involves listening to native-Europe spoken Yiddish (from Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, ...) should go to Earl Bales Park in Toronto (outside in good weather, inside the building in bad weather) and hang around the card tables. But do it soon ... the average age there is around 80. (We often leave one of our kids (age range 7-14) there for the day with my in-laws, and the people there LOVE them because they're fluent in Yiddish.) David Sherman Toronto 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:13:26 -0400 (EDT) From: ALLANBLAIR@aol.com Subject: Afrikaner-Amerikaner In reply to Robert Shapiro's letter [08.021]: The "mispronounciation of the the word "shvartzeh" was merely usage by people unaware of the use of noun genders: Shvartzeh=female; Shvartzer=male. This was misused so often that "Shartzeh became a unisex noun. "Khoyshedikeh" from the Hebrew "khoshekh" or dark later became "shokher" - also a prejorative term. "Grineh" was never (at least in my experience) use to describe black people, but rather other Jews who had just arrived from Europe ("My Grineh Kusineh") or those Jews who never quite became Americanized. One additional note: My mother's brothers often called her "shvartzeh" because of her deep olive complexion. Also not particularly nice, but Mom never was offended by it. Allan E. Blair Columbus, Ohio p.s. Sorry, I misread the opening paragraph re: shvartzer/shva-tze. I believe that the use of the tern "Shva-tze" is a New York-ese affectation. (No intention of the prejorative use of "Newyorkese" .... at least I don't think so.) Allan E. Blair Columbus, Ohio 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:16:27 -0400 (EDT) From: marvin engel Subject: shvartze The original question concerned use of the term "shvatrze" by English speakers. I find it impossible to contrive a situation in which English speakers would resort to use of "shvartze(r)" in referring to a dark skinned person except as a pejorative, whether the person referred to is within earshot or not. But in Yiddish, the context is everything. "a shvartz khaynifdike" is clearly an innocent usage. But "bahalt dus gelt ven di shvartze kumt pitsn di fenster" is surely a horse of a different color. Marvin Engel 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:09:22 EDT >From SHirshan@aol.com Thu Jul 9 06:09:48 1998 Subject: Neutral Yiddish words turn pejorative in English Summoning my muse of gut feelings and calling upon decades of listening for nuances in speech, I stand with Rick Turkel in his statement that in Yiddish the word shvartse/r is neutral, but turns pejorative in English usage. I propose other descriptive nouns like _goy_ and _shikse_, and deem them to be neutral in Yiddish, but charged with negative emotion in English. In Yiddish a goy is a gentile, somebody who is not Jewish. I remember how naieve, how unangry, how lacking in sophistication we were, as we held the shule songbook in our chubby fists and innocently sang the politically incorrect song, Shiker iz a goy, shiker iz er, trinkn miz er, vayl er iz a goy. Not a Jew velkher geyt in shul arayn un iz lernen. In English, however, a goy is an enemy, someone to be put down or scorned.. Ditto for usages of shikse. Ver shtimt mit mir? Marjorie Schonhaut Hirshan Happily not in Boynton Beach, Florida 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:58:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Richfranto@aol.com Subject: farplasterd Regarding the question by Tony Michels: The word "farplasterd "I believe means bandaged. The word "rak "which precedes it is the Hebrew word which means "only". When I lived in Israel I remember that the word for bandage or bandaid that was used was a "plaster". Hope this helps. Fran Townes 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 19:42:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Michel ZLOTOWSKI Subject: Farplastert Re Tony Michels question about "farplastert": Als kind hob ikh gefloygt arymloyfn in di gasn mit di Parizer lobusn. Zrik ahaym, hot mayn Mame - zol zo zayn in Genaydn - geefnt a pishke, aroisgetzoigt a klain fleshl fyn "Mercurochrome" mit a watke, oysgeraynigt bayde mayne oysgerybyne knyin, un aroyfgikleibt tzwey plastern, dus haist "Band-Aid" bar enk.. "Farplastern", haist take tzytzemakhn an ofene vund, nisht azoy vi es darft tzu zayn, bar a dokter, oder bar a khirurger, no prost pushit mit a shtikl plaster. Avade, der vund vet zikh tzrik efynen... Mit a grys far ale Mendelyanes Mekhl Zlotowski fyn Pariz 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 00:45:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Arnie Kuzmack Subject: vos heyst farplastern? Without any actual knowledge to support me ;-), I would suggest that "farplastern" means "to put on a plaster". A "plaster" is defined in my (English) dictionary as "a pasty preparation spread on cloth and applied to the body, used medicinally as a curative or irritant". It fits the context and fits linguistically. B'sholem, Arnie Kuzmack 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:10:20 -0400 (EDT) From: EPalevsky1@aol.com Subject: kneydlekh mit nishomes di mame mayne, oykh a vilnern, makht amol kneylekh mit a gefilekhts ( limoshl grivn tsi gepreglte tsiblke). rufn, ruft zi dos kneydlekh mit nishomelekh. kh'veys nit tsi dos iz derfar vos s'iz nit pust tsi vayl s' kumt tsu a nishome yiseyre mitn esn. elye palevsky 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:43:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Percy Mett Subject: "ober" = "or" I was looking at some old issues of mendele last week (Mendele Vol 5.256) and noticed a discussion of the use of ober with the meaning 'or'. Imagine my surprise shabes tsu minkhe, ven ikh kuk arayn in sider fun leyzer vaynberger'n zugndik dem peyrek, fartaytsht er di verter fun peyrek "oy.....oy....." alts "ober.......ober..." d.h. er shraybt "ober" mitn badaytung 'OR'. pe'rets mett ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.025 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html