Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.028 July 20, 1998 1) Ya-tebe-dam (Bob Rothstein) 2) Mezuze (Bob Rothstein) 3) Rondel and a finsterer sof (Isak Shteyn) 4) a finsterer sof (Avrum-Yankev Amkraut) 5) nyunya (Mickey Brown (Ukelover)) 6) Der Bay Article About Rochester (Leah Zazulyer) 7) learning yiddish again (david getlin) 8) pamelekh (Khane-Faygl Turtletaub) 9) Disappointment in Yiddish (Dolores Kreisman) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:59:11 -0400 (EDT) From: ROBERT A ROTHSTEIN Subject: Ya-tebe-dam Louis Fridhandler's question about _ya-teb(y)e-dam_ in Yiddish (7.181) has elicited several responses, but some questions remain. The Yiddish expression functions as a noun: one can describe someone as _a gantser ya-teb(y)e-dam_. In standard (albeit colloquial) Russian the expression, as has been pointed out, is a threatening sentence, 'I'll teach/show you!' Apparently in Odessa the nominal use is possible: _tselyi ia- tebe-dam_. Could any of our native speakers of Russian comment on whether this is possible in other varieties of Russian? Would they care to speculate as to whether the nominal use is a Yiddishism in Odessa Russian? Incidentally, Yudel Mark, writing in _Yidishe shprakh_ 12 (1952):72, suggested the Russian expression as the source of the Yiddish word _yat_ 'guy': "A ponim az dos iz a kirtsung fun dem lengern ya-tebe-dam vos men hot ibergenumen fun rusish oder ukrainish un gebitn dem batayt: der vos strashet az er vet gebn a matnes yad, der vos hot koyekh tsu derlangen dem emesn patsh, a rekhter khevre-man, a bokher mit beyner, a gezunter yung, a voyler yung, a brat fun breter." Bob Rothstein 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 01:27:20 -0400 (EDT) From: ROBERT A ROTHSTEIN Subject: Mezuze To continue the discussion on _mezuze_: In Shloyme Bastomski's 1920 Vilna colllection of proverbs, comparisons, curses, etc. _Baym kval_, he includes the expression "Zi iz a mezuze," adding the explanation: "d.h., zeyer oysgelasn, ale kushn zi" (49). And a slightly different comparison (from a 1942 list of "proverbs worth using" in _Yidishe shprakh_): "Yenems vayb iz vi a seyfer-toyre: es iz a mitsve a kush tsu ton." Bob Rothstein 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 21:01:16 -0400 (EDT) From: shteyn@juno.com (Isak Shteyn) Subject: Rondel and a finsterer sawf I thing a rondel is a "randel"or "rajndel", diminutive of saucepan. "a finstere sawf" is a "finsterer sof", from hebrew "sof',samech, vaf, fej, and means end. a finsterer sof is, naturally a course, and means the opposite of"happy end'. sajt ale gesund! Isak Shteyn 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:56:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Amkal@aol.com Subject: a finsteren sof As a more severe alternative to " a finsteren sof" I suggest "a misse meshine" or Mitah meshunah in hebrew, a curse used for enemies only. It means: an unusual death Avrum-Yankev Amkraut 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 01:27:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Ukelover@aol.com Subject: Nose I seem to remember by mother using the word "Nyunya" for the word "nose". She would say of a man with an extremely prominent nose, "look at the nyunya on him!". This was said in an amazed tone of voice with the barest hint of laughter just under the surface. My mother was born in Warsaw and came to America as a child of thirteen. Does anyone else have knowledge of this wonderful word? Mickey Brown (Ukelover) 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:45:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Leah Watson Subject: Der Bay Article About Rochester In the recent issue of "der bay", Boris Kopit describes a meeting of Yiddishists in Rochester, New York at my house. Unfortunately I need to temper his enthusiasms with a dash of reality: The so-called committee has yet to go beyond the enthusiasms of the afternoon... Mr Kopit himself will be a very vital member of such a group when and if it comes to fruition! The most touching moments of the meeting did indeed come from the devotion and emotion that the recent Eastern European Jews brought to the gathering. In a very noteworthy moment for Yiddish in Rochester, Rob and Roey Mendel, upon the occasion of their recent wedding, have established the Mendel Foundation for Yiddish Culture in Rochester. They were the moving force behind a Yiddishkeit Festival here a year ago last June. It is certainly true that Rochester now has at least two families of recent residency, (Steyn, of Mendele, and Kaminker mentioned in Kopit's article in der bay ) who are masters of Yiddish! Sincerely, Leah Zazulyer 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:56:36 -0400 (EDT) From: david getlin Subject: learning yiddish again i read all the yiddish in the questions the answers comments etc and much has come back after years of being away is it possible once in awhile to code the yiddish back into english for me it will be a class in itself and my grandkids will benefit with all the new words to hear and learn thanks david getlin 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:00:20 -0400 (EDT) From: stanley turtletaub Subject: pamelekh Der gram vegn pamelekh ken ikh andersh: Gey ikh gikh, tserays ikh di shikh Gey ikh pamelekh, zogt men ikh krikh Khane-Faygl Turtletaub 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:23:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dolores Kreisman" Subject: Disappointment in Yiddish I am sure this discussion must have occured before on Mendele, but I don't know when. I was at Grand Brass, a lamp parts store on the lower east side of Manhattan and speaking to Karl Muller about yiddish matters, when he commented that there was no yiddish word for disappointment. The only thing he could come up with was "oifgerekt" which we both agreed had more arousal in it than disappointment should have. I promised Karl that I would put it as a question to the list. Are there any suggestions out there? If the discussion has taken place on Mendele before, let's not waste time and space in public, but do address me at dk19@columbia.edu with information. Thanks. Dolores Kreisman ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.028 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html