Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.039 August 5, 1998 1) vayter vegn yidish-gezets fun der kneset (Dovid Braun) 2) yiddish and knesset (Sylvia Schildt) 3) yiddish in schools (Yoshua Kleinman) 4) The Call of the zealous clarion (Lucas Bruyn) 5) Shprintse; suffix -ine; Argentine (Mikhl Herzog) 6) suffix -ine (Mordkhe Schaechter) 7) English in Yiddish (Sylvia Schildt) 8) Englishisms (Harvey Varga) 9) Camp Naivelt (Diane Rabson) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:42:39 -0400 (EDT) From: David S Braun Subject: vayter vegn yidish-gezets fun der kneset ikh dank leybl botvinikn far di informatsyes vegn dem gezets letoyves yidish un yidish-kultur ba der kneset. faktish hobn leybls entfers ober ufgehoybn nokh merer frages! se felt "dem oylem", kool, azoy fil informatsye az dem "concerned citizen", vi me zogt belaz, iz nisht tsum visn tsi do hobn mir tsu ton mit an umlegaler iberasignirung fun fondn (oyb yo iz dos an erntster gerikht-inyen -- nit veyniker!) tsi, fun der anderer ekstrem, ... afn himl a yarid! kedey me zol kenen hobn a meynung darf men hobn a din-vekhezhbn, afn shnit fun der zhurnalistik, vos entfert af di frages: vos, ven, vu, vi azoy, ver? ikh tsitir fun leybls ophandlung fun 1996: "in dokument vegn der 'oytoritet far yidish' vern ongegebn kolerley administrative un legale hiskhayvesn un onvayzungen" -- dehayne? lomir zen un hern vos in dokument shteyt. vi bakumt men im? vos zaynen di dozike hiskhayvesn un voser instants dint vi der memune iber der oysfirung fun di hiskhayvesn? ikh tsitir fun leybls naystn briv: "Di gelt far dem yor iz shoyn nito (far yidish), un iz geshpendet gevorn oyf andere zakhn (efsher oykh far yidish...)." dehayne? vosere andere zakhn? az dos gelt hot biklal eksistirt a mol, muz di shayekhdike hetsoe zayn ergets kvitirt. ikh tsitir vider fun leybls naystn briv: "Oyb di komisye vet in tsayt nit oyfgeshtelt vern, veln mir farlirn di gelt far iberayor oykh." azoy shteyt in gezets? oder iz dos a hashore, a khshad? un vayter fun naystn briv: "Ober tetikeytn [letoyves ladino] zaynen shoyn faran." dehayne? vosere tetikaytn? agev, ladino meg hobn a byuro, a tish mit a telefon -- afile a koordinator an ongeshteltn -- nor az mir hobn dervayle nit keyn yedies vegn di unternemungen fun der ladino-komisye (tsi shoyn durkhgefirte tsi ersht planirte), ken der matsev fun di ladino-bamiungen zayn funktsyonel ekvivalent mit dem fun di yidish-bamiungen, dehayne: der lokh fun a beygl. nor mitn untershid az eyn "eyde" hot a byuro mit a bisl faryosemte mebl un di tsveyte -- dos oykh nit. Dovid Braun Cambridge, MA 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:05:31 -0400 (EDT) From: creativa@charm.net (sylvia schildt) Subject: yiddish and knesset Re: Yoshua Kleinman's comments on YIddish and Knesset -- while i cannot question his right to an opinion, even one that is so different from mine, I would like to beep in with a few facts and clarifications. And a question that I hope gets to the heart of the matter. 1. The issue is not whether Knesset should endorse Yiddish, but rather having endorsed it in the form of a law --that it live up to its already existing endorsement, as it already has for Ladino, also the subject and beneficiary of the same Knesset law. Usng his criteria, does it mean that the Ladino folks give back the 1-1/2 million shekels they received for Ladino classes in the Israeli school system?? 2 Hebrew is not the lingua franca of the Jewish state - it is its official language. Yiddish is the lingua franca of Ashkenazi Jewry all over the world, and has been so. arguably for over a thousand years. 3. In "fremde lender" we have no "breyre" but to grow Yiddish as a private enterprise. But in Eretz Yisroyl, the homeland in actuality or in potential for every Jew in the world -- should the historic tongue of 2/3 of the settlers ,Ashkenazim,and the surviving heritage of 5 million kdoyshim be merely a private enterprise - like kite flying or other harmless but unimportant activity??? Further comment: only in Israel can we make such a demand that Yiddish be a respectable part of the curriculum. We YIddishists outside of Israel need to lend our voice and support because a great injustice is being done to Yiddish. It's time to take off the gloves, put pressure on the very folks that are sitting on the promised, nay mandated, 1-1/2 million shekels for Yiddish limud in the Israeli schools, so that there may be a hemshekh for Yiddish among the youth of Israel. Sylvia Schildt Baltimore, Maryland 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:00:07 -0400 (EDT) From: JGKleiman@aol.com Subject: yiddish in schools It is very interesting to me that some people think one can preserve a living language by teaching it in schools. My first language was Yiddish and when I went to public school I did not know how to speak English. I have met secular people who have tried to learn Yiddish at college , at home etc. Their nostalgia may be satisfied but they can't speak Yiddish. I am of average intelligence and took 3 years of German in college and I can't speak German fluently. Unless Yiddish is a living spoken language it will become as Latin,except in the orthodox homes where it is spoken daily. Not all orthodox or even black hats can speak the language. I know this from experience. In any case I wish all who attempt to preserve Yissish the greatest success. Yoshua Kleinman 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:44:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "L.M. Bruyn" Subject: The Call of the zealous clarion Do I understand it correctly: Is the Idea that Yiddish should be taught in all Israeli schools as a subject that is part of the normal curriculum? Is that in the law that was passed by the Knesset? If that is the case the Commission (with the 'Arab educational expert' at the head and others who speak no Yiddish) will have at least 4 years work ahead to develop a Yiddish Curriculum, Yiddish course materials, a system of testing, and a teacher training college. They won't be able to do it on the budget to be provided, so what are we talking about? Political pressure from Jews or non-Jews from countries outside Israel on Israel is not known to be very effective or positive in general. Interfering in foreign politics is a very American notion, detested by most other nationals. Lucas Bruyn. 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:39:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mikhl Herzog" Subject: 1. Shprintse; 2. suffix -ine; 3. Argentine 1. Dovid Braun has informed me that Dovid Katz has proposed quite a different etymology for the name Shprintse. Not Esperanza but some bird-name. Does anyone know where Dovid Katz's explanatioin appeared? Does anyone know anything more about the name Shprintse? Speaking of bird-names, recall the surpring "non-bird" origin of Yiddish _Feygl_. 2. For more -ine words, try the song _Di grine kuzine_. 3. Claudia Oxman: Concerning Yiddish Folklore & Ethnography in general, write to Barbara Kirshenblatt Gimblett krshnbtt@acf2.nyu.edu She can certainly help direct you to songs about some of the rather unique features of the history of the early East European Jewish community/ies in Argentina--gauchos, tmeyim, etc. Mikhl Herzog 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:33:58 -0400 (EDT) From: MSchaecht@aol.com Subject: suffix -ine You cannot think of any other feminine noun with the suffix -ine except frenkine? Think of grafin(y)e, keyserine, heldine, genosine, frayndine, khavertine (according to Volf Yunin and Meir Hurvits used in Belarus), khazerin(y)e, terkinye (Mendele Moykher Sforim), kinigine (Yudl Mark), knyazin(y)e, etc. Furthermore: balerine, blondine, etc. Sincerely, Mordkhe Schaechter/ Reb Motale Tshernevitser 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:20:48 -0400 (EDT) From: creativa@charm.net (sylvia schildt) Subject: English in Yiddish Entferndik af mirele hirshan's kashe vegn anglitzizmen in yidish ... ikh meyn az dos iz a frage fun tzaytgayst. ven undzere lerer( di sekulare folkshules) un di yidishe inteligentzie b'khlal, zenen ongekumen in amerike in di 1910 biz tzvantziker yorn, hobn zey mitgebrakht yidish mit ale pitshevkes (lokale slavizmen arayngenumen). Di imigrants, hobn zeyer gikh araygekhapt englishe verter, afile gashafn naye verter vi "alraytnik", "boytchik", un azey vayter. Dos iz far yidishistn fun der tzayt geven a gefar -- az yidish vet azey far-englisht vern, az me vet zi kam-kam derkenen. Itzt, mitn hindzikht fun sof-yorhundert, hobn mir efsher an ander perspektiv. Mir zeyen di oytzres vos english hot tzugetrogn tzu undzer lebediker shprakh, vi eykh di oytzres vos yidish hot tzugebrakht der englisher shprakh. zikher iz do a "caveat" -- un di shomrim fun mame loshn veysn beser vi ikh, vos fara grenetzn me darf shteln. tzum bayshpil, nitzn an english vort onshtot a yidish vort stam in der velt arayn, vi vinde onshtot fentzter - meyn ikh az dos iz nit neytik. ober verter vi peyde, nekst-dorke, u.a.v. shpiglen op di yidishe velt un tzaytgayst. Answering Mirele Hirshan's question about anglicisms in Yiddish ... I think this is a question of the spirit of the times. When our teachers (from the seculorshules) and the Yiddish intellegentsia in general, came to America in the 1910's to 20's, they brought with them Yidish with all the trimmings, including Slavisms. The immigrants quickly grabbed onto English words, even created such words as "allrightnik", " boytchik", etc.For Yiddishists like these, this represented a danger -- that Yiddish would become so Anglicized. that it would hardly be recognizable. Now, hindsight from the end of the century, we have perhaps another perspective. We see the treasures that English brought to our living language, as well as the treasures Yiddish has brought to English. Of course there is a "caveat" == and the guardians of mame loshn know better than I, what boundaries we need to erect. for example, to simply use an english word in place of a yiddish word for no reason, such as vinde for fentzter == i think perhpas this is not necessary. but words like peyde, nekst-dorke, etc. mirror the the yiddish world and spirit of the times. sylvia schildt baltimore, maryland 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 02:16:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Varga96@aol.com Subject: Englishisms A yashe koyech to Marjorie Schonhaut Hirshan for her comments on why slavic words have a hechsher and english immigrants to yiddish are treyf. Was there a vote taken among all Yiddish speakers to decide where our fence is? Why wasn't I invited? Ironically it smacks of the same mentality as anti- immigration tendencies- who decides at what point newcomers are no longer welcome, in a territory made up of newcomers? Some rather subjective decision making on whose accent is right or wrong, or whose words got into the language on time , on the part of the Academie Yiddishais. Harvey Varga 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:07:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Diane Rabson Subject: Camp Naivelt For a forthcoming article about H. Leivik in JCRS Sanatorium (Denver), we noticed that Flora Bloomgarten ("Mrs. Yehoash") wrote to Leivik c. 1932 from Camp Naivelt in upstate New York. Can anyone enlighten us about the political orientation of Camp Naivelt? We'd love to hear any anecdotes about the camp, too. A sheynem dank! Diane Rabson, Boulder, CO ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.039 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html