Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.046 August 30, 1998 1) Yiddish as a foreign language (Ellen Prince) 2) Yiddish as a foreign language (Fred Sherman) 3) yidish, present and past (David Herskovic) 4) mendele - a kehile (Mirl Schonhaut Hirshan) 5) Fogel, bird or flower? (Ben Fogel) 6) Holeveshke (Joachim Neugroschel) 7) Skarbove (Shaya Mitelman) 8) List of Major Yiddish Events (Philip "Fishl" Kutner) 9) YIVO Institute for Jewish Research - Closing dates (Zachary Baker) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 02:24:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ellen F. Prince" Subject: Yiddish as a foreign language Perhaps Miriam Isaacs was being tongue-in-cheek but, lacking smileys, I shall take her comments as serious. She writes: "But to look at Yiddish as a foreign language in Israel doesn't work at all, because a foreign language would, I believe be more valued in Israel than Yiddish. After all, a foriegn language would have with it a country and an economy that would lend it some status. The metaphor that comes to mind is that a foreign language is a chic Paris gown to Yiddish being mom's battered housecoat. Of course this is not true for everyone but seems to be a common attitude." Uh, first, many languages do not have a 'country and an economy' -- Basque, Catalan, Rusyn, all the Romany (Gypsy) languages, Breton, etc etc etc. Second, ask the average Sabra how chic s/he considers Polish, Bulgarian, Hungarian, etc... You were joking, right? In any event, it doesn't really matter what it's called -- if Yiddish is to be taught in the schools of Israel (outside of Mea Shearim), it will have to be taught as a foreign language. Even if a number of the students taking it have some prior familiarity with it, I hope we wouldn't want to prevent curious Israelis of Moroccan or Greek or Iraqi or Indian background from taking it as well... FWIW, most students at my university (in the US) taking Hebrew have some prior relationship with it, same for Armenian, same for Tamil, same for Korean. But they're still considered foreign languages and must be taught as such. Ellen Prince 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:25:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Fred Sherman Subject: Yiddish as a foreign language Re: Ellen Prince's suggestions on teaching modern Yiddish. They sound good. Are any of them happening in Israel now? I've not been to Israel. Are their Yiddish speaking communities all religious? Do they all speak the same "Modern Yiddish"? Would competing YIVOs sprout? (Not that Jews might have a few disagreements over their language...) I think the discussion is worthwhile. We worry that Yiddish is a patient on life-support systems, and that the wrong medical procedure may finish her off. Hopefully, she is hardier than we think, and will survive experimental treatments, several of them wrong-headed. Fred Sherman 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 08:00:37 -0400 (EDT) From: David Herskovic Subject: yidish, present and past If only Ellen Prince were right about Yidish being 'frozen in a sort of 'Victorian Yiddish' period' it would be a halbe tsore. The Yiddish spoken in times bygone had one vital ingredient which is missing in modern secular yidish: yidishkayt, the lifeblood of yiddish. Take it away and you have a bland germanic dialect injected with heavy doses of slavisms to preserve the ye olde flavour. I don't know how academic courses are ever going to convey the joys of the allusions and idioms which are felt by anyone familiar with the classic texts and customs. The tiny kotoynti that opens up toyvye the milkhiger means everything to one familiar with yankev ovini's adventures but very little to someone relying on glossaries or notes to get the meaning. And it's only one example. As for Ellen's suggestion of bridge building, it's easier said than done. It could happen but only when the so called guardians of yidish come down from their ivory towers and realise that there are tens of thousands of yidelekh out there actually speaking yidish albeit with mixed up der's and dos'es and with a galitsyaner/karpatisher accent. On the other side of the fence the yidish speakers will need to pop their heads round their ghetto walls, be they physical or metaphorical, and appreciate that there are people out there capable of teaching them the rudiments of their language. But this will probably only come to pass shortly after the fulfilment of the prophecies of wolves and sheep. David Herskovic 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:55:22 -0400 (EDT) From: SHirshan@aol.com Subject: mendele - a kehile A Khidish, oy, a khidish In Mendele 8.041, way back on August 11, an assassination took place, and our Mendele community merely slammed shut their windows95, ignoring its happening. The shattering terms "tseshterer, nisht boyer fun Yidish" and the indictment "koylen di Yidishe shprakh" were flung at a treasured, most valuable member of our kehile. Noyekh Miller is a feast of a man - as humble as he is noble, sensitive but powerful, inquisitive and inordinately knowledgeable, a fierce friend, a devoted uplifting spirit, and a talented Herculean builder for Yiddish. Noyekh took the idealistic, Quixotic idea of a Yiddish network, with some 20 people to start, and like a two-eyed Moshe Dayan built it with his bare hands into the Mendele we all profess to love, with some 1,600 subscribers today. For literature lovers, beyond the linguists and libhober, he fathered The Mendele Review, before handing the reins to Iosif who so capably and intelligently continues the tradition. And only our Londoner Hassid, the admirable Dovid Herskovic, in Mendele 8.043, stood up in Noyekh's defense - and even ordained him into rebbehood. I address this rusty resounding silence, most certainly not golden, that occurs after such a posting. Is ignoring such mud-slinging a conscious act of censure? Is it an acting out of anger at the destructiveness of a posting? Where is the mentshlekhkayt that is inherent in Yiddishkayt? Don't we stand up for each other? Or is all this talk of love of Yiddish and of Mendele just a flea-bite of feeling after all? Mirl Schonhaut Hirshan Evanston, Illinois 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:11:21 -0400 (EDT) From: bfogel@juno.com Subject: Fogel, bird or flower? Like Feigl I. Glasser I too was born with the name "Fogel" . Although that was (and is) my family name Feigel was just another pronunciation. Having been raised Yiddish speaking I had no doubt that Fogel meant "bird" I even knew of Jewish Fogels changing their name to Zipporah (bird in Hebrew). Admittedly some Fogels changed to "Peleg". I don't know why. Probably somebody can explain it to me. Imagine my surprise when the computer at the Museum of the Jewish Diaspora, at my request gave me the following information. FEIGEL,(FEIGE, FOGEL, VOGEL, FIGLER, FEIG , FIGEL) This name is originally derived from the German "Veigelchen" or "Veigelmein". A popular first name amongst Jewish women meaning "Violet". The phonetic change from "V" in German to "F" in Yiddish led to the mistaken belief that the name Feigel came from the word meaning "Bird" or "Fig", or even that it was derived from the Hebrew name "Zipporah". I must say that I personally prefer "Bird" . Since I had no part in choosing my name I take the prerogative of translating my name, "FOGEL" as "BIRD". So there. Just to confound the linguists. Ben Fogel 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:09:16 -0400 (EDT) From: achim1 Subject: Holeveshke "Holeveshke" (which appears in Weinreich's dictionary) recurs quite frequently in Ansky's paradistic narrative poem ASHMEDAI, which I'm in the process of translating for my DYBBUK reader. I've generally been rendering it as "ember"--though th Yiddish item is somewhat bigger than th English term. Joachim Neugroschel 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:07:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Serge Mitelman Subject: Skarbove. In responce to Yankel Kurtzman's inquiry (08.045:9): U.Weinreich' Dictionary (p.515) reads: skarbove - commonplace, trite, stock. In Russian "skarb" means "goods and chattels", "hob-un-guts", "shtubzakhn"; in some contexts - "dos bisl oremkayt".Here's an example of its usage: "Ober ale hobn fargesn az undzer laytish mame-loshn hot shoyn in ir skarbove zapasl aza heymishn termin vi "finantsieler krumbanits", uav. [Gennady Estraikh "Me shloft zikh nit...",Di pen, N.15, oktober 1995, p.35]. N.Stuchkoff lists skarbove as synonymous with altmodish, altshteygerish (p.56), kazyone, banal, ayngevortslt, normal (p.33), and nit-interesant, oysgedroshn (p.572). Shaya Mitelman. 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:07:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "PHILIP \"FISHL\" KUTNER" Subject: List of Major Yiddish Events This is the initial step in compiling a list of major Yiddish events in Canada and the U.S. Eventually a list of all Yiddish events may be included, but for the moment we are looking to include those which have been held several times and are at least 2 days in length. The initial information should include: Name of sponsoring organization Name of the event Contact person, phone number, mail and e-mail addresses Dates of next event The list of organizations includes: *ASHKENAZ--Bruce Rosensweet *Charlotte Yiddish Institute--Baila Pransky *JCC Chicago Yid. Institute-Helen Schechtman *IAYC--Philip "Fishl" Kutner *KlezKamp--Henry Sapoznik *KlezKanada--Dr. Hy Goldman *Mameloshn--Stephen Dowling *NYBC--Henia Lewin *WC Cultural Fndn. of FL--Charles Infeld *Workmen's Circle--Chava Lapin *Yiddishkayt L.A.--Aaron Paley *Yiddish of Greater Wash.--Harold Black *YIVO--Jeffrey Salant *Yugntruf--Binyumen Schaechter All of the above have been contacted and have been very cooperative. If there is any omission, kindly let us know. The information will be available to the Mendele list and published in der bay. mit frayndshaft, Philip "Fishl" Kutner [Moderator's note: Similar list is maintained by Refoyl Finkel at http://www.cs.engr.uky.edu/~raphael/yiddish/programs.html -i.v.] 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:53:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Zachary Baker Subject: YIVO Institute for Jewish Research - Closing dates The YIVO Institute for Jewish Research wishes to inform its members and the public that, in order to prepare for its move to the new Center for Jewish History, the last day the Archives will be open to the public will be Thursday, September 17, 1998, and the last day that the Library will be open to the public will be Thursday, October 15, 1998. (Interlibrary loan operations will be suspended as of the latter date, as well.) We regret this inconvenience, but we look forward to better serving researchers in our new facility at 15 West 16th Street, as of early Spring 1999. We will keep the public posted as the move develops. YIVO's Web site: http://www.baruch.cuny.edu/yivo/ Zachary M. Baker ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.046 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html