Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.083 November 6, 1998 1) translating Yiddish poetry (Larry Rosenwald) 2) translating Yiddish poetry (Jordan Finkin) 3) translating Yiddish poetry (Gitl Dubrovsky) 4) Yiddish poetry translations in the English Forward (Barnett Zumoff) 5) Sholom Aleichem Curriculum (Robert Waife) 6) Sholem Aleichem & Dineson: Defenders of the Legacy (Louis Fridhandler) 7) Al D'Amato and Philologus (Forward, Oct. 30) (Mikhl Herzog) 8) Vus bisti, ketsele, baroygez (Andrey Bredstein) 9) Vus bisti, ketsele, broyges (Shaya Mitelman) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:40:49 -0500 (EST) From: Larry Rosenwald Subject: translating Yiddish poetry I'm glad Hershl Hartman took up Leah Zazulyer's question about translating Yiddish poetry, and I hope that people like Kathryn Hellerstein and Joachim Neugroschel, to name only two of those who are both expert Yiddishists and distinguished translators of poetry, respond to the questions that are being asked here. I don't suppose that Reb Hershl would care to name the research institution and Yiddish literary work he refers to, in the case where - as is all too usual - a cheaper translation was preferred to a better one? As for my own views - I'm an admirer of the translations translational ideas of Martin Buber and Franz Rosenzweig, so I guess that makes me, in relation to a lot of kinds of translation, a fanatical literalist. But poetry is an area where I'm not so doctrinaire, and am less certain of principles and more certain that certain translations are excellent, and certain other translations are not. I am certain, though, that there hasn't been enough talk about how Yiddish poetry is being translated. I'm thinking of the Howe/Wisse/Shmeruk _Penguin Book of Modern Yiddish Verse_, and how none of the reviews of that book, of the ones I saw at any rate, gave serious, judicious consideration to the wide variety of translational practices and principles being made use of in the book. I'd be grateful, in fact, for any references people might supply to excellent essays on this subject, or to particular insightful reviews of translations of Yiddish poetry. (There's a very interesting Glatshsteyn review of a translation of Nelly Sachs' poems _into_ Yiddish, in _In der velt mit yidish_, but that's something different .) So, in the hope of hearing a lot more on this, al dos guts, Larry Rosenwald 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:01:38 -0500 (EST) From: Jordan Finkin Subject: translation of Yiddish poetry I feel I need to respond briefly to what was most recently said about the translation of Yiddish poetry (esp. into English) and the 'failure' of some translators to capture certain elements, 'rhyme' being one of the key examples used. Of course, volumes have been written about the theory of translation and what the best techniques are, but I'd still like to give my two cents. Generally speaking, a _truly_ 'faithful' translation of any literary work is impossible. Two languages, like Yiddish and English, are very different. There are rarely one-to-one correspondences, in vocabulary, for instance, and in the very sounds themselves. If a Yiddish poet uses, for example, something like an iambic meter, it is a very different thing than if an English poet uses that same meter. They 'mean' different things based on how the language works and, much more complicatedly, on the language's cultural nuances and associations. Nabokov suggested that his preference was for an ocean of footnotes on which to float as 'literal' a translation as possible. Sometimes, I must admit, that sounds like a good idea. But a translation is a creative act. A translator cannot help but to put something of himself into his translation - to 'add' to the author's text. The most responsible thing a translator can do, in my opinion, is to contemplate the work long and hard, reflect, and figure out what s/he honestly believes to be the 'sense' or 'meaning' of the poem, and work from there to "translate" all of its elements into the 'atmosphere' of the second language. This might mean losing words, or rhymes, or cadences from the original. But every translation must necessarily lose many things. It is the strong translation, though, that captures the _feeling_ of those effects. -Jordan Finkin 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:46:08 -0500 (EST) From: GDubrovsky@aol.com Subject: Translating Yiddish Poetry Hershl Hartman wants Yiddish translators of poetry to adhere to the poets rhyme and rhythm. What might be lost by this is the poet's meaning. One must make a determination -- only for translating purposes, not for original work -- whether form is to be preserved, even if the meaning changes; or whether the poet's vision and meaning must be preserved. The nuances of language, on which poetry often depends, cannot easily be carried from one language to another, even if equivalent words are found. As I said in my note on translation in the prefatory material of my translation of I. J. Schwartz's magnum opus, Kentucky: Poetry is a blend of form and meaning. It can never be restated, even in the same language, and remain the same. Often translators of poetry impose a different rythmic form than that of the poet. They create something different thereby, which is their own and not the poet's. Often, an injustice is done to the poet's intention. Stanley Burnshaw believes that the original and the translation should be published side by side. And he states that the obligation of the translator is to relay what the poet is saying. I agree. Gitl Dubrovsky 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:58:40 -0500 (EST) From: Barnett Zumoff MD Subject: Yiddish poetry translations in the English Forward I am one of the frequent contributors of English translations of Yiddish poetry in the English Forward. I have also published three volumes of translations of Yiddish poetry, one by Glatstein, one by Sutzkever, and one by Zychlinsky. I am sure that Leah Zazulyer knows that something has to be lost in any translation, however skillful--either the precise meaning, the tone, the meter, the rhyme, the rhythm, or the style, or several of them, must be lost or weakened. It also goes without saying that the translator is rarely, if ever, as good a poet as the original author (furthermore, when a very good poet has made translations of Yiddish poetry, he or she is often very cavalier about sticking closely to the original--often the poet swallows the original, digests it, and spits it out as a new poem in his or her own style and bearing only a faint family resemblance to the original). For myself, I try very hard to maintain the tone and accuracy first. In my three books, I decided to forego rhyme in favor of very precise rendering of the meaning.To be sure, it is sometimes possible to get a very nice rhyming translation (az es lozt zikh), which adds to the charm and the reading pleasure with only minimal loss of precision of translation. I have done this in some of the poems I have translated for the Forward. When one attempts a singable translation of a poem that has been set to music, which I have also done in some of the Forward translations, one is in a particularly stringent vise: the rhyme and meter MUST be maintained to make it singable to the original music, and accuracy may (or may not) suffer slightly. I am quite proud of some of my singable translations, particularly O Guter Fraynd, by Dovid Edelstadt. If that's one of the ones Leah Zazulyer thinks are inadequate, then we have a difference of opinion (not unheard of in poetry, whether original or translated). In conclusion, I might add that I found the tone of Ms Zazulyer's comments rather patronizing. Barnett Zumoff 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:01:18 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Waife Subject: Sholom Aleichem Curriculum To the Mendele List Readers: The Sholom Aleichem Web Site, "www.sholom-aleichem.org" which is produced with the assistance of the SA Memorial Foundation requests information from educators for the purpose of developing an on-line curriculum. This curriculum is to be varied based upon the work and life of Sholom Aleichem. All age groups are targeted, the outline will separate material for younger audiences. Courses that are currently offered by professors/teachers which need to remain intact, will be presented as such, with proper credit to all submissions. The site will be upgrading to include a discussion group - with password access - in addition to real audio etc. All suggestions are welcome Thank you -- Robert V. Waife 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:56:57 -0500 (EST) From: Lfridhan@aol.com Subject: Sholem Aleichem & Dineson: Defenders of the Legacy We who treasure our legacy of Yiddish language, literature and culture are devoted to maintaining our contact with that legacy. However, we quickly learn it's a rather fragile enterprise. I was emphatically reminded of that the other day when I addressed the Oakland, California chapter of Hadassah. About ten percent could understand Yiddish well enough to follow a paragraph. The age range was perhaps early fifties to about eighty. Even those up in age had lost touch to a major degree. Because of its fragility, the enterprise cannot endure too many injurious insults (such as the charge of "irrelevance") and needs defense. It's an old story. The need to defend Yiddish was uppermost in Sholem Aleichem's mind and heart in 1888. Sholem Aleichem was fresh from aggravating encounters with Israel Levy, publisher of Yiddish who made a living from Yiddish and despised Yiddish and harassed Yiddish writers including Sholem Aleichem. Below is a letter written by Sholem Aleichem in 1888 expressing gratitude to Yakov Dineson for a defense of Yiddish, and incidentally, an opinion that German had too great an influence on Dineson's Yiddish. The need for defense against Germanization also continues today. Just take a look at the latest Pakntreger and see the Germanic orthography of the Yiddish. The given reason for that is respect for the possible intention of the author. In my opinion, it is a weak excuse that caters to a fancied wish of the author while ignoring the realistic, pedagogical needs of learners of today. Further, could the author's intentions include the confusing typographical errors in the Yiddish? These must utterly confound and discourage any young learner of Yiddish. We old timers can see through those errors and shrug them off, but the fragile, labor-intensive enterprise of maintaining contact through teaching Yiddish is thus needlessly injured. Here is my translation of a relevant part of Sholem Aleichem's letter to Yakov Dineson (Yivo Bleter 1: 395, 1931). It is laced with his characteristic light irony. In this letter, Sholem Aleichem used the word , zhargon, for the Yiddish language. Zhargon had been a derisive term for Yiddish, but years of usage in Eastern Europe had made it a neutral term by 1888. The word was later to regain its power to insult. Dineson's defense of Yiddish was published in Dos Yidishe Folksblat, 1888, No. 2, entitled Ver Mit Vos Darf Zikh Shemen? (Who Need be Ashamed of What?). Kiev, Jan. 18, 1888 My dear friend and comrade! Thanks, O thank you! To you, my heartfelt gratitude for your passionate defense of Yiddish, and for arguing its case. This is the first time I have seen your writing. I like it, and yet I don't like it. It has fire, and for that I like it. Yet I disapprove because it is more German than Yiddish. I can provide the explanation: for those of us in the lands once ruled by Poland, it is German, while for you, in the Baltic regions, it's Yiddish. And yet it's good. It is earnest and true, with genuine understanding. If I myself had made a serious try at that, I would have shot out like a cannon, and covered myself with fire. And you wisely avoided that. Without rancor, you weighed and measured your words, really like a German. You erred in only one aspect: you directed reproaches toward Professor Graetz [a Jewish historian]. It reminds me of how Spector [Mordecai Spector, a writer/editor friend of Sholem Aleichem] was highly incensed, carried on a debate with Suvorina and Pikhno [editors of the anti-Semitic newspapers, Novoya Vremya (St. Petersburg), and Kievlianin (Kiev)] and treated them like garbage. But I couldn't bear to witness the suffering of those wild fellows, so I wrote to Spector thus: "Mighty King! Hear my prayer, and have pity on Pikhno and Suvarina! Do not dirty their faces in the Folks-Blat! I implore you! Have mercy on their wives and children, and let them be. Enough! Is there no limit to punishment?" etc... .... Your good friend, Sholem Aleichem. Louis Fridhandler 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:02:28 -0500 (EST) From: "Mikhl Herzog" Subject: Al Damato and Philologus (Forward, Oct. 30) I don't know if Al Damato subscribes to Mendele,but Philologus surely does. A search of the Mendele archives will surely turn up something I've written in the past about their current concern with Yiddish anatomical terms. No, Yiddish _pots_ (English _putz_) has nothing to do with German _Putz_. It's rather a form of a word known throughout the Aegean area, at least in Greek and in Turkish) that refers, among other things to: SURPRISE!!, the female genitalia and the cleft in the buttocks. Look it up! Mikhl Herzog 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:03:05 -0500 (EST) From: "Andrey Bredstein" Subject: Vus bisti, ketsele, baroygez Avraham Chasid hot gebetn me zol im tsushikn di verter fun a lid mit di verter "vos bistu ketseleh broigez" [Mendele 08.081:3]. In Simferopol (Krim) flegt men zingen dos lid nokh afr der khurbn; ikh gib es iber punkt azoy, af a zisn ukrainishn shteyger, vi ikh hob aleyn gehert in onheyb nayntsiker yorn: Vus bisti, ketsele, baroygez, In vus zhe geysti upgelozt di nuz? In efsher vilsti visn mayn yikhes, Finvanen ikh shtam aroys? Mayn tate iz a shmarevoznik Oy, in di mame ganvet fish in mark, Oy, in mayn brider iz a kartyozhnik, Zoln zey ale zayn gezint in shtark! Vus bisti, ketsele, baroygez, In vus zhe geysti upgelozt di nuz? In efsher vilsti visn mayn yikhes, Finvanen ikh shtam aroys? Der feter iz geshtanen in di rogn, Oy, in di bobe a hendlerke in gas, In eyn brider zitst in ostrogn, In di shvester tra-la-la-la-la... Farvus zhe bisti azoy ungeblusn, Ikh bet dokh kim tsi mir arayn in shtib, Oy, vus zhe toyg dir bluzn vi di huzn Oy, iz dokh, dushe, hob dikh azoy lib! Iz zay nit, ketsele, of mir baroygez, In gey zhe nit aropgelozt di nuz, Vayl di veyst ingantsn mayn yikhes, Finvanen ikh shtam - yo, finvanen ikh shtam - Fin vanen ikh shtam - aroys! Andrey Bredstein 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:57:04 -0500 (EST) From: Serge Mitelman Subject: Vus bisti, ketsele, broyges? This song, among other places, can be heard (not read) on The Barry Sisters' CDs "The Barry Sisters - Their Greatest Yiddish Hits" (Legacy International, under license from Rhino Records, catalogue # 336) and "The Barry Sisters" (Banner Records, catalogue # 1009). The Mloteks have also written about it in their "Leyener dermonen zikh lider" some 2 years ago. However, in Moldavia (up until lately) we used to sing virtually identical lyrics combined with those of "Mekhuteneste mayne" into one song (with the melody of the latter): Mekhteyneste mane, mekhteyneste getraye! Vus geysti arupgelozt di nuz? Vus geysti arupgelozt di nuz? In tomer vilsti visn ver s'iz dan mishpukhe, Az reykhn ekh shoyn dir bold us: Dan tote iz a shmarovoznik, Dan mome gonvet fish in mark, In dane brider zenen groyse urkes, In dane shvester - tra-lya-lya-lya-lya... In azoy vater... Shaya Mitelman. ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.083 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html