Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.096 December 8, 1998 1) Klal-yidish tsvishn di frume (Yankev Lewis) 2) klal yidish frum un fray (elye palevsky) 3) The "People's Yiddish" (Gail Gaston) 4) Translations in Mendele (Yosef Gilboa) 5) Translations in Mendele (Yoshua Ben Litman) 6) bilingual messages (Rhonda B. Friedman) 7) Mendele University; Ein Kleinekeit! (Alan Berkowitz) 8) Yiddish is dead? (Shloyme-Khayim (Steve) Cohen) 9) The real danger for Yiddish (Louis Fridhandler) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:15:22 -0500 (EST) From: justin.lewis@utoronto.ca Subject: Klal-yidish tsvishn di frume Yasher koyekh to Raphael Finkel on the list of differences between frum Yiddish today and the YIVO standard. I have similar impressions from reading the Satmar-oriented weekly "Der Yid" (recommended in a recent Mendele; I second the recommendation.) That is, lots of modern German influence, some modern Hebrew influence (in spite of Der Yid's strong ideological stance against modern Hebrew), a frequent use of English for modern things (truck, bus driver, various technological items) and a weakening of gender and case distinctions. I think there is in particular a disappearance of Slavic vocabulary. E.g. Weinreich gives only words of Slavic origin as equivalents to "lake" but Der Yid uses the English word. Similarly a Bobov Hasid in Boro Park told me that the Yiddish word for "supper" is now "supper" ("soper" in YIVO transliteration) -- and, he said, after all in the old country people also didn't use "nakhtmol", they used the Polish word, "vyetshere". I.e. he didn't see the Slavic word as rooted in Yiddish. However, Der Yid does _not_ have a discernable standard. The same words may appear with different spellings and seemingly different genders on the same page, even in the same article. I expect this reflects a situation of cheerful linguistic anarchy in the frum communities. The blurring of gender and case distinctions is especially interesting since it has the potential to make Yiddish much easier to learn. In various children's tapes and books from Brooklyn communities, "der" "di" and "dos" all tend to be replaced by "di" or "de", at least in the nominative. It doesn't matter if the subject is clearly masculine. A tape which my 2 1/2 year old son loves, "Velvl Vi Azoy", features "Eli di Elefant", "Kalman di Keml", and other male animal characters all referred to with a clearly pronounced "di". A different but parallel development is a use of "der" for a masculine noun in all cases, e.g. "fun der Rebe". (I'm assuming these are new developments in response to the English linguistic environment, but perhaps they reflect earlier dialect differences?) Meanwhile the ongoing penetration of English into these bastions of Yiddish is very noticeable in the advertising, which is often in English, and especially the classifieds, many of which are in English and many others in extremely anglicized Yiddish: "Tsvey rumige beysment apartment tsu farrentn. Redi arayntsumufn. Speshl prays far kesh dil..." Something I wonder greatly is how the writers of the articles in the same paper maintain their rather high standard of non-anglicized Yiddish. Are there even such resources as dictionaries or grammars in the frum communities? I hope that the day will come before too long when contemporary frum Yiddish is studied and taught in the wider world; i.e. when Yiddish is considered like any other language, to be studied accordingly to how it is usually written and spoken by the majority of its contemporary users. Yankev Lewis 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 18:08:33 -0500 (EST) From: EPalevsky1@aol.com Subject: klal yidish frum un fray der fraynt finkl iz zikh toye af a tsol protim ober in tokh genumen iz er gerekht. der monsiyer yidish iz haynt andersh fun undzer kal yidish khotsh, yidish kener fun beyde tsdodim veln zikh laykht tsuzamenredn, ikh bin a lebediker eydes. Vos ober yo, di andershkayt aleyn iz a simen funem mehalekh tsvishn di lebnsveltn fun di tsvey minim yidish reders. in yidish velt shehoyo, in yidishe shtet un shtetlekh (z"l), iz oykh geven a mehalekh tsvishn di veltlekhe un di gor frume; ober s'zaynen in der zelber tsayt geven geyers un tregers tsvishn beyde veltn , tate- mames in eyn velt di kinder in der tsveyter, ober beyde hobn ober gekent gehern in zelbikn fareyn un hanoye hobn fun a shtikele khazones (khotsh mit andere kavones). di yidish -shprakhike kultur iz aroysgevoksn fun beyde veltn, on keyn shum kinstlekhe mekhitses, un volt oykh haynt gedarft arumnemen ale veltn vu yidish iz a yeysh un figurirt in helfn faryidishn dos lebn. elye palevsky 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 03:41:04 -0500 (EST) From: gigi1924@webtv.net (Gail Gaston) Subject: The "People's Yiddish" Hershl Goodman has presented a sensible and honest rebuttal to recent unfavorable characterization of Yiddish as it is spoken in Boro Park and here in Lotusland where I live. The use of everyday, common, ungrammatical Yiddish should need no defense; it is what it is because it is a living spoken language. In another recent posting there is reference to "laxness in gender usage" and the "dative of feminine nouns and adjectives". These terms are meaningful to classical Yiddish and serious students of the language. I don't believe these terms are uppermost in the minds of people who simply want to speak to each other and be understood. Why don't we welcome the diversity among our own people instead of setting standards that inhibit and demean? I also would like to agree with Miriam Halkin concerning English translations, they would be most welcome. I am renewing my acquaintance with Yiddish and the English makes my attempt at pronunciation and comprehension less arduous. Gail Gaston 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 04:02:06 -0500 (EST) From: AJ Gilboa Subject: Translations in Mendele Re: Miriam Halkin's posting on translations: My sentiments exactly! I second Miriam Halkin's motion. Yosef Gilboa 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:22:00 -0500 (EST) From: JK100000@aol.com Subject: Translations in Mendele I liked Hershl Goodman's essay on various types of Yiddish, especially as spoken by the orthodox. It was great help to me to have an English translation of the Yiddish transliteration. Even though I am a native born Yiddish speaker it is most difficult for me to read Yiddish quickly, effortlessly, and enjoyably. So an English translation is most appreciated. I wish everyone else would do the same when they transliterate to Mendele. Also I couldn't agree more with Itsik Goldenberg. When I learned Yiddish as a child and it was my first language, my ignorant family spoke it as mamalochen. So now when educated people write to Mendele in educated correct Yiddish I need a translation in English. Again I think all transliterations should be translated unless certain writers wish to only reach a certain audience. It is much too difficult for me to bother reading a transliteration with many words that I would recognize if I heard them but am too lazy to dope out slowly. After all reading Mendele for me is fun and since I am retired I refuse to work any more. So, with all due respect, for duffers like me, please translate if you wish to reach as many people as you can. If you wish to keep it elitist and snobbish you also know how to do that. Yoshua Ben Litman 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 16:11:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Rhonda B. Friedman" Subject: bilingual messages Just wanted to add my voice to those who have already urged people to write messages in both Yiddish and English when possible. After having taken some very basic Yiddish classes, Mendele is my primary source for maintaining what I have learned and expanding upon it. I do this by attempting to translate messages written in Yiddish. My dictionary is not good enough to enable me to do it all on my own (nor do I have enough time), so I rarely attempt to read messages that do not have an English translation attached. Please think our your bilingual messages as a teaching device for those of us who want to learn Yiddish. Thanks. Rhonda B. Friedman Washington, D. C. 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 22:12:09 -0500 (EST) From: "Alan B. Berkowitz" Subject: Mendele University; Ein Kleinekeit! It seems as though I have been a subscriber to Mendele for the past two years or more. My yiddish is that of a New York Eastside Jew of the "fifties" who learned Yiddish by listening to my grandmother talking to my tante. They were both illiterate and so theirs was a learned-by-hearing language and the only one they spoke. Their English was worse than my Yiddish. I cannot tell you how much I enjoy reading the comments both in Yiddish and in English. I didn't ever feel (until now) that my limited language knowledge would keep me from learning whatever I can grasp from the language of my forebearers. You professors can argue all you want about the correct transliteration and YIVO rules. I am just a non-matriculating student at Mendele University. As for me, if the going gets rough, there is always the delete key. Ahbei Gezunt... Oh you know what I mean. Alan Berkowitz Montgomery, Alabama 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:58:05 -0500 (EST) From: "Steve Cohen" Subject: Yiddish is dead? Tayere Mendelistn: Vegn dem inyen "Tsi iz Yidish toyt, tsi nit", lomikh dertseyln vos hot pasirt mit anderhalb vokhn tsurik in Boston. Mayn vayb, elterm, un zun, mit mir, zaynen geforn keyn Boston (USA, nit England) tsu zen mayn tante un feter. Ikh bin nit keyn gisiker af Yidish, ober ikh red BLOYZ Yidish mit mayn kleynem, Danele, vos iz tsvey yor alt. Dos iz zeyer shver far mir, un ikh meyn az ikh makh a sakh toesim mit mayn Yidish--zayt zhe moykhl. Nit keyn anderer redt mit undz Yidish, khotsh mayn vayb pruvt a por verter, un afile itst poshete zatsn. Danele enfert take af Yidish (khotsh er hot lib English beser, meyn ikh), vos gefeln undz. Mayn kuzine vos iz 30 yor alt hot gehert di Yidish verter, un hot gezogt ir man, "Isn't that funny: Daniel is learning to speak a *foreign* language." (Di shtern zaynen mayne.) Un ir zeyde hot geredt Yidish vi a yingele, un ir bobe iz geboyren gevorn in Vaysrusland, un oykh hot geredt Yidish! A shande, nit nor far Danelen, ober oykh far ale Yidn! -Shloyme-Khayim (Steve) Cohen 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:26:21 -0500 (EST) From: Lfridhan@aol.com Subject: The real danger for Yiddish [English follows] Az emetser zogt az yidish iz toyt, zeyt es oys, take, vi meshugene reyd. Me kukt zikh arum, un me hert un me zeyt un me leyent yidish. Lebedike mentshn shmuesn zikh durkh af yidish; zey shraybn zikh iber af yidish, shikn eyns dos andere brivlekh af yidish. Kolzman lebedike mentshn nitsn yidish ken men nisht zogn as yidish iz toyt. Es iz, poshet geredt, an absurde vildkeyt. Me ken dos laykht avekmakhn mit der hant. Ober far yidish shteyt a gresere gefar. Es iz geshtelt antkegn yidish a shoyderlekhe gefar ven an akademiker mit hashpoe in undzer gegnt shrayt oys az yidish iz "irrelevant;" hot gor keyn sheykhes nisht far undzer lebn. Vos heyst? Di groyse oyftuen fun Khone Shmeruk, Avrom Sutzkever, Sholem-Aleykhem, Mendele, Peretz, un nokh un nokh, hobn gor keyn sheykhes nisht far undz? A nekhtiker tog! Azoyne reyd fun akademikers kenen avade aveknemen mut un kheyshek far yidish fun yunge un alte. Azoyne verter gibn mut un kheyshek tsu di rekhte vi David Klinghoffer un zayne khaverim un zeyere umgelumperte, fayndlekh gedanken vegn yidish un yidn. Az akademikers mit hashpoe shteln yidish in azamin gefar, zoln mir shvaygn? Shvaygn toygt af kapores. [In English] When somebody says that Yiddish is dead, it really seems like crazy talk. We look around and we hear and see and read Yiddish. Living people discuss matters in Yiddish; write to each other; send each other Yiddish letters. As long as living people use Yiddish, no one can say that Yiddish is dead. In plain talk, it is a wild absurdity. It is easily dismissed with a wave of the hand. However, Yiddish faces a greater danger. Against Yiddish is posed a horrible danger when an academician with influence in our community shouts that Yiddish is "irrelevant;" bears no relevance to our life. Who says? The great accomplishments of Khone Shmeruk, Avrom Sutzkever, Sholem Aleichem, Peretz, Mendele, and on, and on, are of no relevance to us? That'll be the day! Such words from academicians can indeed rob young and old of resolve and enthusiasm for Yiddish. Such words give encouragement, support the zeal of right-wingers like David Klinghoffer and his allies and their clumsy, blundering, hostile notions about Yiddish and about Jews. If academicians with influence place Yiddish in such danger, should we remain silent? Silence is good for nothing. Louis Fridhandler ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.096 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://metalab.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html