Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.146 April 29, 1999 1) az me tut a nis, vos tut men tsu zikh aleyn? (Michoel Ronn) 2) sneezes and toddlers (Miriam Isaacs) 3) What to say to a sneeze (Rita Falbel) 4) sneeze (Michael Shapiro) 5) Tsu gezunt, etc. (Sam Kweskin) 6) khoshever fodem (Mekhl Zlotowski) 7) 'Koshere Fodim' (Mendy Fliegler) 8) "Koshere fodem" (Sara Himelstein) 9) koshere (not khoshever) fodem (Itsik Goldenberg) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:44:08 -0400 (EDT) From: chromelion@juno.com Subject: az me tut a nis, vos tut men tsu zikh aleyn? s'iz gor a farshpreyter yidisher mineg az ven me tut a nis, git men a tsi bayn ever (dos heyst "oyer"). Bshat mayse, zogn andere dem posek "lishuostkho kivisi adoshem," vos meynt az "eybershter! ikh gloyb in dayn derleyzung." in di tsaytn far avrom avinu ven a mentsh hot gegeben a nos, is er glaykh geshtorbn. derfar, zogt men ad-hayoym kolerley vintshnevanyes ven a tsveytn git a nis. makhshovesn, in "yivo-bleter" (band 42, zaytl 253), shraybt avrom rekhtman, "az men git a nos beyz men redt vegn a toytn, git men zikh a tsi baym linkn oyer un men zogt, 'vi lang zey dir shvebn, azoy lang mir tsum lebn.' " Michoel Ronn Brooklyn, N.Y. 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:25:12 -0400 (EDT) From: miriam isaacs Subject: sneezes and toddlers For a sneeze also, "a nizele aroys un a gezintele arayn". Sneeze out and health in. Also said for other similar corporeal phenomena. For todders see Ruth Rubin's collection put out by Folkways and Mark Olf's Collection. Miriam Isaacs 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:03:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Rita Falbel Subject: What to say to a sneeze In my family, I heard "Helf Gott", also, "Gezunt un shtark zollstu zayn" Rita Falbel 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:53:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Jostlasa@aol.com Subject: sneeze Has anyone heard the following for a sneeze: "Tsu voxen, tsu leben, tsu der kuppah shpellen". or something similar to that? Michael Shapiro 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:32:15 -0400 (EDT) From: ESSAIKAY@aol.com Subject: Tsu gezunt, etc. Add to your "sneeze" literature: Mir hobn gezogt "tsu gezunt" un nokh andere shprikverter , trotz dem vos mir hobn nit gevust az dos hot geshtammt fun di fargangene, tragisheh tseiten fun der Shvartse M'geyfeh. Di leiteh hobn getrakht az meh neest, iz shoin a simen az der mentsch hot zikh shoin ongkhapt di krankheit. Sam Kweskin 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 04:12:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Micha ZLOTOWSKI Subject: khoshever fodem Khashiver Reb Marvin Meyer Engel, A disparaging expression it is indeed. I still use it in the following form: "Drek mit leiber mit kushern fudem" (my pronunciation is rather peasant-like). It is meant to denigrate something, implying that it is not what it seems to be. As I understand it, the kosher fodem - santified thread - and the leiber - liver - being there just to conceal plain drek. Mekhl Zlotowski, Pariz 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:48:37 -0400 (EDT) From: mendy fliegler Subject: 'Koshere Fodim' Khaver Engel freygt: Fun vanen kumt 'koshere fudim' [08.144]. The expression is: 'Kadokhes mit koshere fudim', and is a reply to someone who deserves a 'nasty' repayment for a nasty or questionable deed or action. Sometimes, when I was a bad kid, my mother would not serve me a certain dessert, and would say: 'Kadokhes krigst du, mit koshere fudim'!! (how often have we seen kosher thread?) In essence, it means that someone should get even more than nothing, he or she could get a black hole in space...( a singularity!) What is kadokhes? Mendy Fliegler 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:39:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Himelstein, Sara" Subject: "Koshere fodem" This in reply to Marvin Meyer Engel's question regarding "khoshever fodem" and "Koshere fodem" in mendele vol.08.144. While my Yiddish is still weak, it does seem like two different phrases. That is Khoshever would seem to mean important as it derives from the Hebrew root chet shin bet : chashoov meaning important. Koshere does mean kosher. Fodem is a thread which would be neither important nor kosher. I remember speeches often began (as my memory from childhood) with someone addressing everyone as khoshever froind at weddings etc. Important friend would be a respectful greeting, khoshever fodem would indeed be derogatory in that case. I assume similarly the second phrasing is derogatory as it is a nonsense phrase as thread cannot be kasher. Any other takes? Sara Himelstein 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:36:17 -0400 (EDT) From: robert goldenberg Subject: koshere (not khoshever) fodem Marvin Engel asks the meaning of the idiom "koshere fodem." I cannot recall a precise example of its usage, but I remember the context in which I heard it used at home when I was a child. It went something like this: For a long time after a heated argument, perhaps with a neighbour, my mother brooded about the matter, which the "nekstdorike" soon forgot. At a later time, the neighbour, assuming that by now things were OK, asked to borrow some sugar. My mother was not one to quickly forgive or forget, and recounting the incident to one of us, said: "Tsiker vilt zi? Kh'vel zi gibn kadukhes!" (the ague). If the argument was a serious one, it would be: "Kh'vil zi gibn kadukhes, mit kushere fudem, in a kleyn tepl!. All nonsense of course, but very impressive at high volume and pitch, with appropriate gesticulation. The ultimate expression of indignation. Itsik Goldenberg ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.146 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://metalab.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html