Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.152 May 12, 1999 1) Rothschild letters (Marion Aptroot) 2) Yiddish communities (Dan Gilman) 3) Khsidishe mayses (Burton (Berel) Leiser) 4) Old/Middle Yiddish in Transliteration (A Manaster Ramer) 5) kalte shul (Andrey Bredstein) 6) Boris Tomaszewski and Natan Gross (Moyshe-Shaye Steinlauf) 7) Zikh, Mikh etc. (Miriam Isaacs) 8) zikh/zakh (Sylvia Schildt) 9) Feet and legs (Yankev Lewis) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 03:09:30 -0400 (EDT) From: aptroot@phil-fak.uni-duesseldorf.de (Marion Aptroot) Subject: Rothschild letters Harold L Orbach asked (Vol. 08.150) in which language the Rothschilds wrote their letters. In 1988-89, the Rothschild Archives looked for someone to translate those parts of the Rothschild correspondence which were written in Hebrew characters. Applicants for the position were sent copies of one letter from each of the Rothschild brothers and their mother. Since I was among the applicants, I had a chance to read these letters. They were all in German. Of course the sample wasn't very large and I am neither a Germanist nor a native speaker of German, but I could not detect any specific characteristics of Western Yiddish in these texts. That was a disappointment, but it was a pleasure to see the handwriting: the mother's letter had been carefully printed, but her sons wrote in very distinctive Ashkenazic hands. Marion Aptroot 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 03:37:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Gilman Daniel Jason Subject: Yiddish communities Sholem aleykhem ale, I am currently devising a proposal for a Watson Fellowship that would take place after May 2000 (beginning anywhere from June to September 2000). I want to do field work in Yiddish-speaking communities and with smaller, more individualized pockets of native Yiddish-speakers, gathering oral folk culture. The fellowship would last for a year, and would require that I remain outside the United States for the duration. In addition, there can be no connection to any other institution -- no universities, language institutes, etc. Since many fellow Mendeleyaner might live in such communities, I wanted to put the question to all of you: what locales should I specify for study? I want to get a feel for communities in Europe, Israel, Canada, South Africa, and South America; what are the exact cities (or regions, or neighborhoods) that I should name in my proposal, and where can I find reliable statistics on Yiddish culture in all of them? Any and all information would be much appreciated. A groysn dank, Dan Gilman Haverford, Pennsylvania 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 06:20:56 -0400 (EDT) From: BLeiser77@aol.com Subject: Khsidishe mayses Yankev Lewis hot an interes in khsidishe mayses. The Bobover Yeshiva (Brooklyn) publishes a luakh (religious calendar) every year. Every week is on a separate page, and on the back of each page is a mayse--in Yiddish, of course--related to the Bobover dynasty. Burton (Berel) Leiser 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:41:53 -0400 (EDT) From: manaster@umich.edu Subject: Old/Middle Yiddish in Transliteration I think there are three entirely distinct issues. One is of convenience. There are people who find Yiddish, esp. Old/Middle Yiddish, easy to follow in transliteration but not in the original, and many of these people will find a German-based transliteration particularly appealing. The second is one of academic/editorial politics. Some scholars may be expected to use a transliteration and esp. a German-based one esp. if they publish in German-language or Germanistic outlets. The third is the substantive question of the proper analysis of the linguistic facts, i.e., of the relation of the language of any given "OY/MY" text to German on the one hand and to modern Yiddish on the other. I believe some would argue that the people who use German-based transliterations also tend to be those who want to treat OY/MY as a mere variety of German, but this is not true in general. Erika Timm clearly treats the language of OY/MY texts as Yiddish, and yet uses German-based transliterations. I myself am perhaps the strongest advocate of the idea that almost all "OY/MY" texts were composed in the same language which we now know as Yiddish (and that all of Yiddish comes from a single source), yet I have no objection to using German- based transliterations (though, since I do not live in a German-speaking country, publish in German-lg journals (actually I do, but not on Yiddish!), or teach in a Germanic department, I have never used them myself). On the other hand, one can make a stronger case that those who transliterate "OY/MY" into the modern YIVO system for Yiddish or any other system for modern Yiddish have tended to be people who beg the question of the relation of the older texts to modern Yiddish, by simply making it a matter of definition that any sort of German-like language used by Jews before the 19th century has to be called "Yiddish", even if it is indistinguishable from German. But again tehre are exceptions. I have used the Yivo system, and in fact I even use it for Modern Israeli Hebrew, because it is very convenient, and yet I do not believe that every pre-19th century kind of German-based speech used by Jews was Yiddish (though most were). So, in short, transliteration practices CAN be a sign of ideological or theoretical commitments, but thet NEED NOT be. A Manaser Ramer 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:59:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrey Bredstein Subject: kalte shul Lillian Leavitt hot gefregt vegn "kalte schulen" (08.150). Ot iz a shtikl Der Nister vos hot shaykhes tsu dem yinyen ("Di mishpokhe Mashber". - Moskve, 1974. - zz. 33-34). Di mayse kimt for in der shtot N, vos iz keyedue di barimte shtot Barditshev. "Un ot iz an andere do derbay, vi di "hitsike", lemoshl, vos azoy ruft men zi, vayl hitsike, halb-dule, shtark-frume khsidishe sektes, vi kotsker, karliner, davnen dortn, vildeven, drapen zikh af di vent, loyfn um, un zeyer inerlekhn religiezn bren mit eygene koyles kiln zey. Antkegn der hitsiker - "di kalte". A binyen, vos afile zumer, az ir geyt ahin arayn, geyt aykh durkh a kelt durkh di beyner; oykh a tsveyshtokiker, oykh untn kromen, oybn - zi. Shtark opgepolirte, glate porentshes, fun fil hent, vos hobn zikh yorn ba zey ongehaltn beysn arufgang, firn durkh a kalt-sklepishn polish un durkh etlekhe trep tsu ir aruf. A hoykhe gebrokhene stelye, infinfn geteylt. Unter dem finftn teyl, di mit, mit hoykhe zayln untergeshpart, iz der balemer. Fun di fir zaytn - kalte, af shtrik arophengendike heng-laykhter, vos s'dakht zikh, az nisht der gaz in di lompn, nisht di likht in di rern loykhtn nisht, varemen nisht. Kalte davner, trukene lamdonim, litvakes. S'veyet fun zey, fun zeyere tfiles un nigunim, mit epes an opgelebtkayt un pustkayt. M'ruft zey "di evenezrenikes" - afn nomen funem mitlalterlekhn shpanishn poet un filosof, vos zayn ratsionalistisher gayst hot zikh do, tsvishn groysn gedikhtn shul-ruml, vi an opgezunderte kalt-farlozte nest gefunen." Mit a grus, Andrey Bredstein 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:02:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Steinlauf Subject: Boris Tomaszewski and Natan Gross In response to some of Gilles Rozier's queries: Boris Tomaszewski's dates are 1866-1939 (Nayer Leksikon, 4:17). The birthdate 1886 given in Zilbercwaig's Leksikon (2:804) is a typo, as can be seen from the rest of the text. Natan Gross in "Toledot ha-kolnoa ha-yehudi be-Polin" (History of Yiddish Film in Poland), p. 56, gives the following dates for the celebrated comedy team of Dzhigan and Shumakher: Shimen Dzhigan (1905-80), Yisroel Shumakher (1908-61). Mit di beste grusn, Moyshe-Shaye Steinlauf 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:13:45 -0400 (EDT) From: miriam isaacs Subject: Zikh, Mikh etc. In reply to Sam Kweskin's question, he asks whether mikh is used as well as zikh for the first person reflexive. The answer is yes. and "dikh" etc. "Ikh vash mikh op", I wash me up- " spil dikh nisht mit im"- Don't play with him- are what I grew up saying. Teaching is much easier the standard way where sikh covers all. I don't really know how that was decided though. Miriam Isaacs 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:50:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Sylvia Schildt Subject: zikh/zakh Yasher koyekh, feygl infeld glazer. zakh meg men zogn, zikh muz men shraybn. "you nailed it!" si do andere azelkhe bayshpiln fun misfarshtendenishn un vider un ober, vifl me zol nit lib hobn undzer mame loshn, darf men lernen a bisl yidish. Congrats, zakh you can say, zikh you must write. You nailed it. There are other examples of misunderstandings but -- however much you may love mame loshn, one has to learn a little yiddish. sylvia schildt baltimore, maryland 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:00:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Enkin * Lewis Subject: Feet and legs Inspired by Liebe Denner's post on "lernen", I must ask a question that has been puzzling my 3-year-old son and myself for a long time: how can one distinguish between "feet" and "legs" when speaking Yiddish? The dictionaries only list "fis" for both. Thanks, Yankev Lewis ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.152 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://metalab.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html