Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 1 no. 55 July 29, 1991 1) Gentiles (David Sherman) 2) Introduction (Jack Goldberg) 3) Mostly Hasidic (David Sherman) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1991 14:09:32 -0400 From: David Sherman Subject: RE: meaning of "gentile" to Mormons (fwd) Ellen Prince stated recently that Mormons use "gentile" to refer to non-Mormons. I thought I'd ask a Mormon e-mail acquaintance, and he says... > From: Rich Wales > Subject: Re: meaning of "gentile" to Mormons > > In the earlier days of the Mormon church, the term > > "gentile" was indeed often used to refer to non- > Jewish non-Mormons. > > Despite some (mostly humorous) sources I've seen > which claim Salt Lake City is the only place in the > world where even the Jews are Gentiles, in actual > practice we have not tended to use the term in that > way. > My sense is that this distinctive Mormon use of > "gentile" is mostly obsolete nowadays. I, and virtu > ally all my Mormon friends, would instead say "non- > LDS" ("LDS" = "Latter-day Saint", part of the Mormon > church's official name); "non-Mormon"; "not a member > of the Church"; or "non-member" (reference to the > Mormon church being implied in the last two exam > ples). > > You may feel free to post this info to the Yiddish > list if people start discussing the issue. David Sherman 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jul 91 09:37:58 -0700 From: Jack Goldberg Subject: Introduction Dear Noyekh, here is the brief biography you requested. Thanks for your contributions. Yakov Jack (Jacob, Yakov, Yankl, etc.) Goldberg : born San Francisco CA 1926. Father from Staczow Poland via Linz Austria, Mother from Trab, Vilna guberniu, met in SF. Married to Shula(mith); 4 children. Attended talmud torah and joined zionist youth movement in SF. Member Beth Jacob, conservative congregation, Redwood City CA. UC Berkeley EE `50, Stanford MSEE `54. Computer Scien- tist; employed in Computer Science Lab, SRI Interna- tional since 1951. Weizmann Institute fellowship 1957-9, many trips to Israel since; wife's brother in Hadera. Working knowledge of Hebrew; fair reading and understanding but poor speaking ability in Yiddish. 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jul 91 15:19:24 EDT From: David Sherman Subject: RE: Vol 1.46 Responsa; an exchange > I'm interested in your observations about the reluc- > tance of the khasidim to speak to you in Yiddish. > I've had a considerable number of graduate students > who didn't "look" like Yiddish speakers and who en > countered the same problem. At first, they were > often taken for Israelis. Do you find that the > khasidim overcome their reluctance? From my observa- > tions at a Lubavitsher "farbrengen", they've learned > to accept many people who don't "look the part". Or > is it different there than in Williamsburg? There's a WORLD of difference between Crown Heights and Williamsburg. Lubavitcher Khasidim are generally welcoming of non-Khasidim -- that's their calling in life, to be m'karev people (all right, I'm lapsing into Judeo-English again:-). The Satmar Khasidim who live in Williamsburg and Monroe are not particularly interested in communicating with those outside their community, even frum Jews. We've gone into stores in Monroe, speaking Yiddish, me with a yarmulke and my wife with her hair covered, and been just about ignored, or dealt with very brusquely. They're just not interested in those outside their circle. In Boro Park, on the other hand, you get a big mix of Yiddish-speaking Khasidim, whose attitudes vary all over the map. We spend a couple of days shopping in Boro Park every year, including getting clothes for Yomtov for the kids. It's the only place in the world where we speak Yiddish to the kids in a store and no- one takes the slightest notice. 13th Avenue in Brook- lyn, for those who don't know the area. We don't feel at all uncomfortable there, in general. (We'll be there again this year in late August.) If you want to monitor Yiddish being spoken without needing to get people's agreement, go to 13th Avenue in Boro Park. Because it's all busy stores, you can browse, maybe even buy things, while listening to Yiddish all around you. You can't do that, in our experience, in Williamsburg where things are quieter and, as a result, more hostile. > 3. There is no other word for "shadkhn" in Yiddish > but, I swear that I've seen, with my own eyes, a > native Hebrew speaker's translation of Yiddish > "shadkn" into Ivrit as "ose gafrurim". How's your > Hebrew? Do you follow the route the translator took? Sorry, Mikhl, you've lost me on this one. Can you clarify? What's a gafrur? _____________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol 1.55