Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 1 no. 134 January 5, 1992 1) Toler (Moishe-Nussen Eytan) 2) Reply to Borok Berk (Moishe-Nussen Eytan) 3) To Dovid Hirsch (Sholem Ruveyn Benjamin) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 4 Jan 92 17:28:48 GMT From: me@SUZUKA.U-STRASBG.FR Subject: Mendele Vol 1.129 the whole message is naive, no offense being meant to the sender. I guess you Americans do not always realise it, but the origin of the name Dollar is the _austrian_ Thaler -- and don't forget, Galicia used to be in the Austro- Hungarian Empire. So there is nothing surprising that it be called "tuler" in Yiddish. As for the daled becoming a tes (or rather, if the original Hebrew pronounciation hadn't been corrupted, a tuv -- phonologically the real english th-sound) -- or its converse -- it is a very well-known phenomenon in phonology: cf 'ten' in English vs 'dix' in French, whatever the original indo-european might have been. Moreover, here in Alsace (the real birth-place of Yiddish!) as in many other German speaking provinces in Europe, one hears frequently "mispronounciation" of 'd' which becomes 't' (but _not_ vice-versa!). As for the kumets-alef-u phenomenon it's too widely known to go into it; nevertheless may I remind the netters that the original kamats was _not_ pronounced 'ah' but a cross between 'oh' and 'ah' -- cf the Teimani pronounciation still heareable in Israel (mebbe not for long, the Sabra accent being, alas, taken over by the new generations). Let me add that this phenomenon is not particular to Yiddish: we see it in English the other way round from 'oo' to 'ah'(the word 'shut' has 'u', originally 'oo', pronounced 'ah') and the same way from 'oh' to 'oo' (the word 'do' has original 'oh' pronounced as 'oo'). Many, many more examples could be shown, but I do not feel like giving a course in phonology -- for which I anyway lack the competence. All this reminds me of the recent debate about folk-etymology... 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 4 Jan 92 16:44:34 GMT From: me@SUZUKA.U-STRASBG.FR Subject: RE: Mendele Vol 1.129 moishe nussen: what kind of yiddish DO you speak? my Yiddish is Galitsianer, prost in pushet, the language of my illiterate, poverty-stricken, superstitious and naive forbears; but mine they were, and I want to pass on the heritage as it was, without embellishments. not being very fluent in the language, unusual (to me) accents can play havoc with my comprehension. in particular, the two words below stumped me. I gather that Noie`h (or should it be Noyekh?) will post my introductory message to the list (after editing), but let me recall what I told him: transcription of Yiddish makes no sense for me, sehot kain tam, since one must use Latin alphabet in its poorest form (not even accents we have in all european languages except English). I am too old to learn YIVO or Litvak or 'standard' (but who sets up the standard?) transcription, so I use the veriest phonetic one, except for ONE letter: I render the "`hes"(8th letter of the hebrew alphabet) by "`h", since for me (who know many Sepharads over here) it is definitely not the same letter as "khuf" (11th letter of the alef-bais); when I don't forget about it, in words of Hebrew origin, I also use the ` for the "`ayin". I shall also be sparse with quotes, simple or double. Of course the vowels are the most typical part of Galitsianer,they have been explained somewhere on Mendele or on mail.yiddish [Reb Noie`h, please give the exact reference] Akaide" is the word you might render by "akedah" in Hebrew (modern pronounciation!) and it is the sum of events related in the Toire (or Torah?), I believe in parshes Lekh lekhu, that led up to the (non-)sacrifice of Isaac. Its original meaning is: binding-up. Grazen" means errors; Noie`h mit zibn grazen means spelling Noie`h (a two-letter word in Hebrew) with 7 mistakes. also, i understand the words of the third expression, but not its meaning in your context. can you help me out? "Bekhol doir vudoir" (sorry, I 'misspelt' the 1st word) is what the Passover Hagudeh (ie Hagadah, I guess in YIVO) says should be done about reciting the Seder; it means: in every generation. I used it to mean just that. Last, I guess Borok would be written in my transcription Burekh. ==Moishe Nussen 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 04 Jan 92 15:30:16 EST From: sbenj@Athena.MIT.EDU Subject: RE: Mendele Vol 1.131 RE: Di yidishe khile in mitsrayim... I, for one, would be most interested in what you have to say about the Jewish community in Cairo. Sholem Ruveyn ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol 1.134