Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 1 no. 137 January 19, 1992 1) Query (Hershel Basser) 2) Bird watching (Hershel Bershady) 3) Alsatian Yiddish (Moishe-Nussen Eytan) 4) Negative concord (Dovid Braun) 5) Tsh (Dovid Braun) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1992 22:47:25 -0500 From: fishbane@epas.utoronto.CA Subject: RE: Mendele Vol 1.135 What is the origin of choizik-- like in hoizik machen (fun), if hebrew hzq (strong) I dont see it? hershel basser 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 05 Jan 92 23:54:28 EST From: "Dr. Harold Bershady" Subject: VEE ZAGT MIN, "iKH GEH 'BIRD WATCHING' Who knows whether Jews went bird-watching in Eastern Europe -- other than keep- ing an eye on the various ages and stages of chickens! At any rate, this seems very much an American sport, certainly for the present generations, and I think should get an American-Yiddish phrase. (The shames's suggestion a. Ikh gey zikh arumvolgern mit di feygl -- sounds like something one's parent would have said to one of us). I suggest feygl-kihken as the name for the activity. It's short, to the point and certainly expresses the activity. As to the variety of feyglach -- this takeh takes a lot of thought. Hershel [The shames, back from his flutter with the birds, has had a few more ideas on the subject and will probably air them when the backlog is cleared.] 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Jan 92 11:58:09 GMT From: me@SUZUKA.U-STRASBG.FR Subject: RE: Mendele Vol 1.135 To Mikhl Herzog: From: ZOGUR@CUVMB.BITNET RE: Mendele Vol 1.134 Moishe Nusn: Listen more carefully to the native speakers of Alsatian Yiddish. Don't they pronounce, e.g., initial t and d the same way, as something more or less in between--so that talis (prayer shawl) and dalis 'poverty' 'sound' the same? What city are you in? Are you interested in Alsatian Yiddish? Dunno about alsatian Yiddish, seems to exist no more. As for alsatian Alsatian, you are right, although I hear 'd' more as a 't' (and a linguist colleague, himself a native speaker of alsatian confirmed it for me). Same with 'b'and 'p' (again the phoneme sonore is prominent). How about trying your hand, now, at the etymology of gra(y)zn and an the origin of the expression noyekh mit zibn gra(y)zn Am trying to, but have no idea; shall have to ask around me. But see the item 2) in the referenced issue. 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 06 Jan 92 11:40:12 EST From: braund@linc.cis.upenn.edu Subject: Negative concord Parallel to kenaho're/ken ayenho're/kana'yneho're (without negative concord) is ken aho're ni(sh)t and only ken ahore zol dir nit shatn. But yes, neg concord does not hold 100% -- exceptions are usually in poetry (poetic license!, influence of literary [MH] German) or formulaic expressions (such as ken ahore, or in proverbs [for rhythm, e.g.]). Formulaic material is usually old (it is preserved and undergoes less linguistic change than other items _because of_ rhyme, rhythmic devices, etc.) which perhaps points back to the origin of these expressions in Old Yiddish, when it was (linguistically and physically) closer to German, (the standard dialect of which) has no negative concord. I know of the 'ober/oder-"confusion"' from poylishe yidn (Lodzh, e.g.). Doesn't Prilutski have a short article on this in Yidishe filologye or Yidish far ale? Somebody does, I just don't have the volumes at hand. 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 07 Jan 92 14:18:33 EST From: braund@linc.cis.upenn.edu Subject: tsh Eftsher veys reb Mikhl, oder emetsher andersh: From poylishe yidn I hear eftsher for StY 'efsher' (I've never yet seen this discussed in print); eymetsher [eymetsha], also from poylishe, has been mentioned in print. Schaechter has written about khtshuf 'shtshav'. From Zypora Spaisman (Lubliner Yiddish, if I'm not mistaken), actress in NYC's Folksbine Playhouse, I heard khtshives 'khshives'! There is stg to be said for this, but what is it?! (eymetsher may be a remnant of sabesdiker losn, as those parts also have smate 'shmate', etc., but the others seem to follow some other phonological pattern.) ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol 1.137