Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 2 no. 08 June 4, 1992 1) Kibitsn (Gerald M. Phillips) 2) Shlemiel and shlimmazel (Yithak Kertesz) 3) Mazeltov, etc. (Hersh Volf Basser) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Jun 92 14:22 EDT From: GMP@PSUVM.PSU.EDU Subject: RE: Mendele Vol 2.06 Re: kibitz, I know nothing about etymology, but I do know the card playing culture of big cities and it was clear that the kibitzer was the person who sat in the fourth chair of every pinochle game and gave advice to the players. There was a difference between a kibitzer and an ordinary spectator. The advice had to wrong. The guy who gave good advice was a mayvin (or consultant in Anglo terms). Where the word came from I do not know, but it had a very specific meaning. To pin it down even more, the kibitzer never took a hand. He was always "just a little short this week." Gerald M. Phillips 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Jun 92 13:28:05 PDT From: Yitzhak Kertesz Subject: careful! the soup is hot! I have to admit that I have a special talent for not making myself clear. In part the reason is that I haven't finished my paper yet, and even when it's done, this is not the proper format to publish it (I mean various tidbits in brief notes). In the meantime let me try once more, this time in all seriousness. I am relying on two sources: a. Hirshel Revel (The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia. v. 11, p. 511) "Though the two terms Shlemiel and Shlimmazel are to a certain extent similar in idea, they differ in the fact that the Shlemiel falls victim to his own stupidity or simplemindedness, while Shlimmazel may be purely accidental and may happen to anyone." --- b. Dov Noy (Enc.Jud. v. 6, c. 1381) "A witty folk-saying distinguishes between the two characters: 'A schlemiel is a man who spills a bowl of hot soup on a schlimazel.'" I have no doubts, that both terms, shlemiel and shlimmazal(nik), were used for an unlucky loser. Shlimmazal was also used in certain areas to describe a difficult situation, trouble. What I do not find any reference to or source for, is the above mentioned distinction between the two characters. Additionally, the above mentioned folk-saying doesn't make sense to me, as I described in my previous note (2.06) The question about the role of the receiver of the soup refers back to the "chance" issue. Is he just anybody, and the soup could have gone in any direction, but this time it happened to go that way, in which case there is nothing unique about him, or, is there something in his personality (some metaphysical force called luck, or lack of) that causes the soup to end up on his suit every time. If this is the case, then it is not anybody who happens to be there, but his personality is causing it, therefore he has a special name. I hope this attempt made it somewhat clearer. Yitzhak Kertesz 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1992 16:32:26 -0400 From: fishbane@epas.utoronto.CA Subject: RE: Mendele Vol 2.07 What I had in mind by referring to muzzeltof, yontiff, maymahronim vasser-- is that expressions tend to congeal and then come into yiddish in congealed form. Already in the Book of Esther then in Mishna we find "yom-tov" as an expression for a festival day . But my guess is that in Esther it means "day of fortune" -- "happy days" as the fonz was have it. It solidifies into a fixed notion independent of but related to its original sense "good-day". Indeed, yom tov is then originally a day of good portent and tov has the sense of "blessed". The Talmud counsels that ayn mazzel b'yisrooel-- which is taken to mean thta God and not lady luck rules Israel or that ayn-- is the name of Israel's guardian star, or that Jews have no luck. anyways to come to end, achron achron haviv-- Mayim acharonim-- last waters-- congeals as a concept "the washing at the end of the meal"-- thus mayim achronim could define vasser-- we're not asking for drinking water but water "for end of meal washing". Likewise mazzeltof-- lucky stars congeals to "I wish you joy and good fortune". I'm not sure why these words and not others but it seems to me, as I said, that latin felix -- joy or luck is the parallel. the derivation of bronfin from brantwein rings true-- to this day the Hebrew translation of it is yain saruf (ya"sh)-- burned wine.-- what a bonus you ask one and two gets answered. Anyways no use crying over spilled milk or whining over burned wine. Hershel Bolshiviker ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol 2.08 If your message is intended for MENDELE, please write to: mendele@vax1.trincoll.edu If you want to discuss personal business or have a shmues with the shames, please write to: nmiller@vax1.trincoll.edu Please sign your articles.