Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 2 no. 20 June 26, 1992 1) Transylvania (Zev Hochberg) 2) Mise meshune (Itzhak Finger) 3) Mies, shmues, meshine (Ellen Prince) 4) Meshine/meshune (Mikhl Herzog) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Jun 1992 17:23:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Zev Hochberg Subject: Transylvania Does anyone know what Transylvania was called in Yiddish? (T. has many names, in various languages; I'm wondering which is used in Yiddish) Zev Hochberg 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 08:16:01 MDT From: jfinger@mv.us.adobe.COM Subject: Mise Meshune Meylekh Viswanath writes: >> Which sider (siddur) do you have? In the corresponding >> tfile in my ArtScroll, I couldn't find mise-meshune. Oops. "Mise-meshune" does not appear in Nusakh Ashkenaz, but does appear in Nusakh Sefarad (The Formulation of Spain) and also in Nusakh Ha'Ari (The Formulation of Itzkhok Luria). In spite of its name, Nusakh Sefarad was commonly used by Khassidim (and many others) in Eastern Europe. Nusakh HaAri is used by Lubavitch and some other Khassidim. -- Itzhak "Jeff" Finger -- 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 11:34:36 -0400 From: "Ellen F. Prince" Subject: RE: Mendele Vol 2.18 [Robert D Hoberman writes:] > In Yiddish "mies" is two syllables, in >Juedischdeutsch one (as in the Mieskeit song in >"Cabaret"). in central yiddish, "mies" is also one syllable. >Incidentally, this same change took place also in >Juedischdeutsch "schmus" (with a long -u-), where Yiddish >has shmues, from Heb. shmu'ot=shmu'oys; American Jewish >English has taken the German-Jewish form, in shmooze. in central yiddish, it's /u/, also. >Weinberg gives the etymologies that have been mentioned in >Mendele (mies from Hebrew mi'us, mise meshune from Heb. >miso=mita 'death', meshuna 'strange'), but doesn't comment >on the fact that it has the vowel -i- in meschinne, rather >than -u-, as the Hebrew original would lead you to expect. >Is this from Eastern Yiddish?! in central yiddish, it's /meshine/. i think we see a pattern here... Ellen Prince 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 14:23 EDT From: ZOGUR@CUVMB.Columbia.edu Subject: Re: Mendele Vol 2.18 To Bob Hoberman: re meshine rather than the expected meshune in the West: It MAY be eastern influence, as you suggest, but it may also be an "indigenous" feature which we encounter in several words of Hebrew and Aramaic origin. WY "sigge" (suke) is one; another is "nedinye" where we would have expected "nedunye" (nadn or nadan in the East). In both cases Western Western Yiddish that shows the "i" form, and not the eastern part of Western Yiddish that borders on Eastern Yiddish (where the "i" forms are the rule). Mikhl ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol 2.20 If your message is intended for MENDELE, please write to: mendele@vax1.trincoll.edu If you want to discuss personal business or have a shmues with the shames, please write to: nmiller@vax1.trincoll.edu Please sign your articles.