Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 2 no. 66 September 15, 1992 1) ES (David Sherman) 2) Dutch or Yiddish? (Hendrik Jan Bosman) 3) Acronyms (Ellen Prince) 4) Frum (Ira Robinson) 5) Pe tsadek (Eli Katz) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 1:31:41 EDT From: dave@cai.lsuc.on.CA Subject: ES Mikhl Herzog writes: > 1) alemen hot men ES oysgeharget. > 2) vos hostu ES nextn azoy geveynt? > 3) es hobn zey ES zikh azoy geshlogn. > 4) efsher vet ES di mame tey trinken? Mikhl, I'm confused as to what you're asking. Are you stating that these constructions are normal in {some/most/all} Yiddish, and asking about the origin of "es"? If so, I'd appreciate an explanation as to what "es" means here, how it's used, and who uses it this way. These constructions look totally unfamiliar to me.* David Sherman *From this last sentence you know for sure I'm not a native speaker. If I were, I would say "that's not Yiddish!" rather than simply "I've never heard it". :-) 2)---------------------------------------------------- [from soc.culture.jewish] Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 20:15:42 -0400 From: hjb@levi.th.vu.nl Subject: jewish last name Spetter:dutch or yiddish? For a while I have been trying to find information on the origins of the family name of a friend of mine, who is from jewish descent. (I am not going to conduct a full genealogical search, I just want to find out the etymological background of the name). I don't have much to go by, just a picture of a barely readable tombstone in The Hague. The last name, 'Spetter', is spelt shin (or sin, I can't tell) peh-ayin-tet-tet-ayin- resh. This can hardly be a Hebrew word; it must be either Dutch or Yiddish. In Dutch 'Spetter' means something like 'drop (of liquid)', 'splash'. It is a normal word, but used as a name has a rather comical feel to it. This is in itself possible: when Napoleon introduced obligatory last names in 1811, many Dutch people registered under mock names, not taking the new institution seriously (much to the chagrin of the later generations who have inherited these rather embarrassing last names up to the present day). In Yiddish, according to a Yiddish dictionary, the verb 'spetn' (shin-peh-ayin-tet-nun) means 'to ridicule'. Theoretically, there could be a Yiddish word 'spetter', meaning 'someone who ridicules', very akin to the Dutch word 'spotter' with the same meaning. I don't know however, if that would/could be spelled with double tet. My question: does anybody with more knowledge of Yiddish than I do have any suggestions as to which of the two solutions is the most probable? The spelling with double tet is probably decisive. Apparently (although not beyond all doubt), my friend's relatives have come from Spain in the 1500's. This would mean that they have been sefardim, right? Would that affect the probability of the name deriving from Yiddish? Hendrik Jan Bosman 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 14:29:17 -0400 From: "Ellen F. Prince" Subject: RE: acronyms [David Sherman asks:] >Are there other names or words in Yiddish that have come >into existence through this kind of acronymming? there are a bunch. unfortunately, the only names that come to mind at the moment are ash/asch and azoulay (a sephardic/ oriental name). and rashi? or is it rambam? or both? for other words, there's tenakh. and a million others, none of which i can think of. can't wait to hear all the ones other mendelnikes will come up with. ellen prince 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:49 EDT From: ROBINSO@Vax2.Concordia.CA Subject: RE: frum In answer to the question concerning the word "frum", it seems to be quite similar to the German word "fromm", which means "pious, religious, godly, devout". "Frum", as used in Yiddish, has very much this meaning. While we are on etymologies, could someone tell me the origin of the "knish"? Ira Robinson Concordia University 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 13:16:34 -0700 From: katz@Sonoma.EDU Subject: pe tsadek 1. Without detracting from the punning irony in the euphemism 'pe tsadek' for 'pots', it does NOT result from the intentional humorous substitution of 'tsadek' (virtuous person) for 'tsade' (letter of the alphabet). 'Tsadek' IS the Yiddish name for that letter of the Jewish alphabet, resulting, no doubt from metanalysis in reciting the original sequence 'tsade, kuf, resh,' etc. Thus the correct answer to "vi leyt men oys dos vort 'kats'?" is "kuf, pasekh alef, (langer) tsadek." You can check this in Weinreich. 2. With regard to the nuances of 'pots' vis-a-vis other derogatory epithets, here is an illustrative anecdote from the late forties, told to me in an undertone by an otherwise very proper mitlshul lerer: A yid gefint zikh oyf a shif in mitlendishn yam. Er fort ergets vu, nor er iz azoy fartumlt fun ales vos er hot shoyn durkhgemakht, az er ken zikh beshum oyfn nit dermonen, vi heyst di shtot vu er darf arop fun shif. Dreyt er zikh arum an umglik- lekher, un a tsveyter Yid bamerkt es, un fregt vos iz im. Dert- seylt im der ershter az er veyst nit vu aroptsugeyn fun shif. Der tsveyter ken gor nit gloybn az emitser ken zayn aza min idyot un git a zog: "A pots a yid! " Derfreyt zikh der ershter un zogt: "Oy a lebn oyf aykh! Dos iz dos, take: Port Said!" Eli Katz ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol 2. 66 If your message is intended for MENDELE, please write to: mendele@vax1.trincoll.edu If you want to discuss personal business or have a shmues with the shames, please write to: nmiller@vax1.trincoll.edu Please sign your articles.