Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 2 no. 151 February 6, 1993 1) Dos un yents (David Braun) 2) Kapores un elevelomp (Elyet Gertel) 3) Kest (Hershele Basser) 4) YIVO's fax number and e-mail address (Zachary Baker) 5) YIVO e-mail or fax address (Goldie Gordon) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Feb 93 19:11:38 EST From: David Braun Subject: dos un yents leygt zikh nit ken feygelekh in buzem means 'don't brag about that which you don't have a right to brag about'. (i'm sure we have a nice sounding English equivalent in english, but i can't think of it.) question to robert rothstein: could you explain the correspondence between yiddish f and Ukrainian kh or khf or khw. somebody asked about daniel vs. doniel, a couple of Mendeles ago. while the name is with a komets in loshn-koydesh texts, it's pronounced in Yiddish, as far as i know, with [a] -- [dani'el]. so daniel-moyshe (hamekhune dave) sherman is translating his yiddish name correctly. why this is so in the case of daniel/doniel? yelamdeynu rabeynu. another example of komets being pronounced pasekh is khaver (although there's a form khover which means 'study fellow'). but this in an accented syllable, so it may have nothing to do with daniel. Although I've never heard [doniel] ("loy shomati eyno rayo"), there's a prominent Modern Orthodox rabbi in Northern New Jersey named Donniel Hartman. The letter o could mean that some people do pronounce the komets, or that the name should be pronounced as in the one-syllable English name Don (i.e. Donald). who knows? [editing my text above: the word "English" in the 1st paragraph is extra. in paragraph 2, i mean transliterating, not translating. this paskudne computer system that i'm on won't allow me to correct things. kam vi se lozt mikh shraybn!...] be me all well! David Braun 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 02 Feb 1993 20:15:33 -0800 (PST) From: EGERTEL@FULLERTON.EDU Subject: Kapores un elevelomp 1- Vegn kapores: mayn mame nitst ot dem variant: "S'toyg af tishe -V'- nayntsik kapores." (Ikh aleyn hob untergestrokhn dem "v'"). Vos iz der untersheyd? Di mame nitst di hebreyishe konyunktsie, "v'" anshtat der germanisher "un." Vi azoy etlekhe andere mendelnikes hobn shoyn gezogt iz dos a numerishe tsunoyf- shmeltsung fun hebreyishn "tishe" mit germanishn "naynstik" tsu meynen 99 kapores. Kh'nem on az der bal-kashe veyst avade az epes vos toyg af kapores iz in gantsn on a vert. Iz epes vos se toyg af tishe v'nayntsik kapores legamre un bishleymes aroysgevorfn! Az me git tsu dem 99 shtraykht es unter gor ironish punkt vi nishtik epes ken nor zayn. [Combining the Hebraic "tishe" (9) with the Germanic "nayntsik" (90) adds up to the numerical modifier, 99 to emphasize that this is not only suitable for kapores, i.e. worthless but multiplied 99 times to be utterly, totally good for nothing! I can't believe that my mother is the only one who uses the Hebraic conjunction "v'" (and) instead of the Germanic "in" between the 9 and 90. Does anyone else use or know of an informant who says "tishe v'nayntsik kapores" and not "tishe un nayntsik...?"] 2-Kh'hob lang gevolt visn tsu emetser volt mir gekent derklern punkt vos der doziker oysdruk meynt: "Me kukt af im/ir mit an eleve(:)lomp." Di tate-mame nitsn ot dem oysdruk kedey onstuvayzn az vos a geviser mentsh volt farlangt, farlegt, gefodert oder gebetn fun andere volt men im bashum-oyfn keyn mol nisht gegebn. Tate-mame hobn mir dos keyn mol nisht klor gemakht un nisht gekent uberzetsn. Ver nokh hot gehert epes azoyns un ver ken es mir geben tsu farshtyen? [An expression my parents sometimes use goes something like this "me kukt af im/er mit an eleve(:)lomp" but never have been able to adequately explain its mean-ing and certainly not give me an English equivalent. It's one of those expres- sions the meaning of which I can feel but can't really translate. When someone has a request, demand, or proposal that hasn't the slighest chance of being accepted or acted upon by someone else, the second party is said to "kuk af im/ ir (the requesting/demanding/proposing party) "mit an eleve(:)lomp" as if to say "like hell, s/he'll get it (whatever is demanded/requested/proposed) or "Fat chance" but the actual meaning and origin escape me. It sounds like "an 11 (o'clock?) lamp...maybe? Any clues out there in computer-land? I've even talked to a few mevinim but so far no one's offered any illumination (not a pun...)] Elyet Gertel 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1993 23:08:59 -0500 From: fishbane@epas.utoronto.CA Subject: Kest Witness the following joke (even made it into Freud's "Jokes" p. 112. in the ppb. ed): > A shnorrer is invited for lunch to a rich man's house. He > shows up with a young man, and when asked who that was, the > shnorrer says: "This is my son-in-law and I've promised him > his board for the first year." I suggest the joke only works because indeed the rich were the ones who provided kest-- the anomally here is the schnorer has found a way to do it too. while the hardworking poor could not give kest, the shnorer can. Dr. R. Werman is surely correct, kest was only given by the wealthy-- as vitsnessed by the above joke. hershele bolsheviker 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 18:21:36 PST From: Zachary Baker, YIVO Library (bm.yib@rlg.stanford.edu) Subject: YIVO's fax number and e-mail address (1) YIVO Institute for Jewish Research, 1048 Fifth Avenue, New York, NY 10028; tel. (212)535-6700; fax (212)734-1062. (2) Several individuals at YIVO have e-mail addresses, courtesy of the Research Libraries Group, whose network RLIN is familiar to those of you who are affiliated with large academic institutions (or specialized Judaica research centers). There is no e-mail address for YIVO per se. My mailbox is noted above. Zachary Baker 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 15:58 EST From: Goldie Gordon Subject: YIVO e-mail or fax address I found a message of Feb. 1st from Dr. Heinrich J. Dingeldein looking for the current e-mail address or fax number of YIVO in New York. I went to the trouble to phone YIVO and learned that they are not on e-mail but they gave me FAX 212-734 1062. The address of YIVO INSTITUTE FOR JEWISH RESEARCH is 1048 Fifth Avenue, New York City, N.Y. 10028 I tried to communicate directly on e-mail with Dr. Dingeldein and the i.d. was unknown, so here is the information I have managed to acquire. Hope it answers his query. Good Luck. Goldie Gordon ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol 2.151 If your message is intended for MENDELE, please write to: mendele@vax1.trincoll.edu or mendele@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu If your node is Bitnet-only and is not connected to the Internet, please send your message to: mendele@trincc or mendele@yalevm If you want to discuss personal business or have a shmues with the shames, please write to: nmiller@vax1.trincoll.edu or nmiller@trincc Please sign your articles.