Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 3.009 May 20, 1993 1) Sayings and words (Hershel Bershady) 2) Weininger/Viswanath (Meylekh Viswanath) 3) Transcription vs. transliteration (Meylekh Viswanath) 4) Yidish vs. Yiddish (David Sherman) 5) Breytere Gilyoynes (Elyet Hersh Gertl) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu May 20 09:53:10 1993 From: hbershad@sas.upenn.edu Subject: sayings, words When anyone announced to my grandparents some deed, accomplishment, so-called important event that my grandparents thought didn't amount to much, they would say, "Shtel sikh rakkhim!" My mother explained to me that this meant "Go stand on your head." (It's another one of the phrases I mutter at dept. meetings.) "Shmorovoz" means, I think, slob, an unkempt person. It sounds like a Russian word to me. For some reason, I associate this word with the term "besmackovit" which means, in my family's usage, a condition in which one's snot has spattered one's shirt, face, necktie, blouse, whatever...this can happen when one laughs in the midst of swallowing hot coffee. Hershel Bershady 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu May 20 09:57:03 1993 From: VISWANATH@draco.rutgers.edu Subject: weininger/viswanath With a name like Viswanath, I can't hope to be taken seriously as a Yiddish speaker. Your suggestion of substituting Weininger for Viswanath is a good one. (see 3.006) Meylekh 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu May 20 10:01:17 1993 From: meylekh viswanath (viswanath@draco.rutgers.edu) Subject: Transcription vs. transliteration Thanks to Arn for explaining the difference between transcription and transliteration. I did, indeed, miss the point of that first paragraph in 3.004 (I believe). My postings should be read with 'transcription' for 'transliteration.' As for the substantive content of his posting, I believe I have already responded in the previous issue of Mendele. I note that Bob Hoberman also seems to agree on the spelling of yiddish 'borrowings' into English, although the question of 'Yiddish Vokh' versus 'Yidish Vokh' in an otherwise English letter would still seem to be unresolved in his comment. Meylekh. 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu May 20 11:11:26 1993 From: dave@cai.lsuc.on.ca (David Sherman) Subject: Re: yidish vs. Yiddish Meylekh writes: > Second, in transliteration of yiddish words/phrases in an otherwise > English sentence, should popular transliterations be preferred for > certain words? This was the context of my original question, and ellen > suggests that the answer to this is yes. Thus, we all write 'yidish' as > 'yiddish' in an english sentence. I agree, if the transliteration is a transliteration and not a re-expression in the host language's phonology. The words "yidish" and "Yiddish" are pronounced differently. The first vowel is long in "yidish"; a true English transliteration would not be "yiddish" but "yeedish". Therefore, I find "Yiddish vokh" unacceptable. It's a mixture of English and Yiddish phonology in what should be a single compound word in (only) one language. For me, "yidish-vokh" is the only possible spelling. The same issue comes up, for Canadians, when writing about Montreal. If your sentence is to be read with Montreal pronounced as it is in English (mon-tree-ALL), then you don't put an accent on the 'e'... because once you put an accent on the 'e', you must pronounce it in French (mon-ray-AL). Thus, Canadians writing about Montreal in English will not put the accent on the 'e'. On the other hand, if you're writing about the Gaspe' peninsula, you always put the accent on the 'e' even when writing in English. David Sherman (see y'all (y'enk?) at yidish-vokh!) 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed May 19 18:47:56 1993 From: EGERTEL@FULLERTON.EDU Subject: Breytere gilyoynes? Liber khaver Noyekh, Ober bin ikh bamerkerish! Biz Elen Prints hot bamerkt hob ikh keynmol nisht mehader geven di gilyoynes fun MENDELE! Far mir iz es nisht keyn groyse metsie tsi me nitst a breyte tsi a shmole gilyoyn abi s'iz do a MENDELE. Far di tsvey groshn vos s'hot nor dervert, ot hot ir mayn etse: lomir arumredn dem inyen un az s'rov Mendelnikes viln az mir zol pruvn a breytere grenets; me ken (kh'hob gemeynt az tomer s'rov viln azoy lomir es pruvn un az nisht, nisht. Me ken zikh ale mol krikkern tsum itstikn oyfn. Kh'meyn az ir hot dos oykh in zinen gehat az ir hot gebetn az me zol opshtimen vegn di gilyoynes, nisht emes? A gezuntn un freylekhn shvues aykh mit der meshpokhe un gants Mendele-land! Mit khavershaft, Elyet Hersh Gertl [The tally thus far is: wide (4), narrow (1), either way (1). Polls close on Sunday, May 23.] ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 3.009