Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 3.059 July 12, 1993 1) Mountain Jews (Jascha Kessler) 2) Re: nor/nokh dos hot undz gefelt! (Ellen Prince) 3) Nokh [amol] "epes" (Zachary Baker) 4) More on epes and German Dialects (Adam Albright) 5) Eppes (Randy Kloko) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun Jul 11 21:09:33 1993 From: Kessler Subject: Mountain Jews In addition, in case anyone on this list will be going to Israel, in addition, Imight add that I saw a fine small exhibition at the Haifa Municipal Museum las t September 1992 about the Mountain Jews: clothing, photos, objects, ritual and omestic, books, the usual spectrum of anthro/sociological display. It's worth an hour or so of anyone's time in Haifa, and knowing Israel, it is likely the exhibition is still up, the Museum being not as well setup as those in Jerusalem. Jascha Kessler 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon Jul 12 13:56:01 1993 From: "Ellen F. Prince" Subject: Re: nor/nokh dos hot undz gefelt! [a cc from a note to Seymour Axelrod] >The version I remember would have been "*nor* dos hot undz gefelt." >Regional variants, do you suppose? I may have mis-heard, though. hm. they both sound fine to me. but i could very easily be wrong. hm, i think i'm going to cc this to mendele! Ellen Prince 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon Jul 12 11:33:03 1993 From: Zachary Baker (bm.yib@rlg.stanford.edu) Subject: Nokh [amol] "epes" >From "Deutsches Woerterbuch," by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm, vol. 3 (Leipzig: S. Hirzel, 1862; reprint ed., Muenchen: Deutscher Taschenbuch Verlag, 1984), col. 679: EPPER, EPPES, aliquis, aliquid fuer etwer, etwas, eppa fuer etwa, doch nur im schweizerischen, allemannischen, oestreichischen, bairischen, wetterauischen volksdialect, auch geschrieben oepper, oeppes, oeppa, bei HEBEL oebber, oebbis, oebbe.... bekannt ist das schweizerische: hedder oeppe oepper oeppis gseid? [=] hat dir etwa jemand etwas gesagt? epper und eppe bedeuten auch irgend, eppe hin, [=] irgend wo hin. beim schlesischen WENZEL SCHERFER begegnet gleichfalls: der herr will epper mir vergeben... N.b. For lack of umlauts, an "e" has been interpolated here in the appropriate places. I will refrain from translating the passage, since mein Deutsch ist eppa schwach, but will note that the dialects identified where "epper," "eppes," etc. are used comprise the the following: Swiss, Alemannic, Austrian, Bavarian, Wetterau (help me with this one, ye Germanisten: could this be the same as one of two places identified in the Columbia Lippincott Gazetteer as Wetter, (a) 6 miles NNW of Marburg (Hesse-Nassau), or (b) 3 miles NW of Hagen (Westphalia)?). All of these dialect regions are either western or southern. "Eppes" does not appear to have been used in regions of former East Germany where Sorbian is (or was) spoken, however... Regarding Perets Mett's comments, in reponse to Reyzl's mention of the "recidivist challenge to Yivo orthography": Please do not confuse transcription/transliteration with spelling systems used in Yiddish proper. I doubt that even Dovid Katz would be in favor of introducing "ch" for "khes" and "khof" and while his "Klal- takones" do not distinguish between "tsvey yudn" ("ey" in YIVO transcription) and "pasekh tsvey yudn" ("ay"), I am sure that his students are taught the difference in terms of pronunciation and (I would hope) transcription. It is the lack of the distinction between the "tsvey yudn" and the "pasekh tsvey yudn" to which Reyzl objects (and I naturally agree with her on that), not the confusion that many Yiddish students have regarding the romanization of those two digraphs. Zachary Baker, YIVO Library 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon Jul 12 10:02:57 1993 From: Staple Gun Subject: More on epes and German Dialects Since people seem to be on the topic of epes/ebbes/aebbes in German dialects, i thought i'd pipe up to mention that epes, and many many many other such "Yiddish" words appear in southern German dialects with great frequency. Although I wouldn't pretend to be able to understand 5 words of Schwaebisch, I did have the privilege of learning Bavarian last summer, and found that many "strange" words were familiar from Yiddish. Most notably, words such as "epes", "far vus", "wie azoy" (wie so), and the use of "was" as a relative pronoun are quite common, and the personal pronouns are similar (including "mir" or "mia" for us, and even sometime "ets" and "enk", found in some Yiddish dialects.) Vowels are also pronounced similarly - for instance, Hochdeutsch "schon" can be "schoyn" (or more frequently, a nasal "schee"), and "au" is often said "oy". ("Keine" is also "koa", much like Yiddish "ka".) This shouldn't come as much of a surprise, since as I understand it, Bavarian is firmly rooted as a Middle High German dialect, but I still found it to be an interesting and often amusing comparison. It was also a source of constant delight to my German friends and family how fast I could learn to sound like a true yokel! :) Nu, genug. Adam Albright 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon Jul 12 14:48:19 1993 From: Randy Kloko Subject: eppes Leo Rosten derives "eppes" from Middle High German, which would explain how it go into German dialects. It's not in Lexer's "Woerterbuch", but I did find "eppas" in a 17th century dictionary of the Bavarian dialect. It's always struck me as being an un-German looking work. I'd like to think that it came into Middle High German from Yiddish. While we're on the subject of German dialects: I once heard someone assert that the Cologne dialect was "just like Yiddish, but without the Hebrew". ("Hold the Hebrew"!? Is this like ordering a sandwich!?) I've never heard Cologne dialect spoken, and have only read it in a few Tuennes-and-Schaaell jokes. Personally, I don't see it, but I'd be glad to hear from someone who knows. Randy Kloko ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 3.059