Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 3.141 November 23, 1993 1) Froy un mentsh (Khaim Bochner) 2) "Oyf" vs. "uf" etc. (Arre Komar) 3) Starting with a verb (Hal Berman) 4) Yiddish "spelling" (Yankel Lantz) 5) My father's obituary: some missing tam (Victor Bers) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon Nov 22 10:51:05 1993 From: bochner@das.harvard.edu Subject: froy un mentsh Ikh hob geshribn: > ... nutsn "mores" (mem reysh sof) far a froy azoy vi me nutst >"reb" far a mentsh. Hershl Berman shraybt: > I take exception to Khaim Bochner' use of the above terms. A >mentch is a person, not a man. The correct term is Froy un Man. Nu, nu. "mentsh" iz nisht genoy "person". Ober avade ken men zogn "zay a mentsh" tsu a froy. Bin ikh take maskem az s'iz nisht geven zeyer gut tsu nutsn "mentsh" azoy vi ikh hob es genutst oybn. Ikh meyn, ober, az dos genoye vort volt gedarft zayn "mantsbil", nisht "man". Bay mir iz "man" kimat ale mol "husband"; nutsn yidish "man" inem taytsh fun "mantsbil" klingt alt-modish in mayne oyern. A dank far der oysbeserung, un zayt mir moykhl vos ikh vil es nokh vayter oysbesern ;-) Khaim 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon Nov 22 18:39:08 1993 From: "Dr. Arthur Komar" Subject: "oyf" vs. "uf" etc. Ikh vil nur zogn az mayne mutter un ihre drai shvestern hobn (sind?) do gekumen fun a klaynem shtetel in Minske-gubernia (Byelarus) un vayl zay varen maydelakh un zayer elend zay hobn (sind?) nisht ayn tog im lebn in shule gegangen.Ven zay hobn mitaynander geshprokhn (un aykhet tsu mir) hobn zay kesayder "oyf" banuts un nisht "uf". Aymetsen vos zogt az "oyf" kumt nur fun Amerikanishe shule, oder fun shule in algemayn, iz a bissel unerfaren. Klal-yiddish kumt take fun shule; rikhtige Yidden shprechn prost mameloshen un Got zay dank! A shaynem dank tsu alemen vemen hobn mikh erklart funvu shtamt der untershied tsvishen lezn un leyenen. Ibringens hot mayne mutter immer gezogt "Ikh hob geleyzt".Zie hot aykhet gezogt "Nu, vos gibt's?" Tsi zie hot gezogt "Nu, vos's git?" dos hot a gants andere maynung. Arre Komar 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon Nov 22 21:16:04 1993 From: Hal Berman Subject: Starting with a verb It's OK for songs to start with a verb because of the literary rule known as artistic license. Poetry is also exempt from proper grammar at times. However, in writing or speaking for non-artistic purposes, the rule stands. Hal Berman 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon Nov 22 23:00:04 1993 From: RWLANTZ%JMUVAX.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu Subject: Yiddish "spelling" The local paper recently carried an obituary for an elderly Mennonite lady named Mrs. Elizabeth Schmuck. Don't laugh. I'm sure there is a perfectly reasonable etymological explanation. If you want a chuckle, consider the name of the famous Augsburger banking family: Fugger. Run that through a slight consonantal shift. I'm not making this up. I've seen it in print. At any rate, no one with a modicum of ability in the English language is going to talk about the late Mrs. Skmuck. It has to do with a basic principle of linguistics. (Mario Pei, where are you when I need you?) "Sch" followed by a consonant simply cannot be pronounced any way other than soft, thus I see no reason why it should not be as acceptable in Yiddish transliteration as "sh." Would a French Yiddishist really write "chmou...," er, "chou" or "choustaire?" I'd be interested to know. Vowels get a little stickier. But consonants are pretty straightforward. YIVO hin, YIVO her, so what's the difference between "schuh" and "shuh," "tzitzis" and "tsitsis?" Yankel Lantz 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue Nov 23 16:42:40 1993 From: VBERS@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu Subject: My father's obituary: some missing tam Erstens, many thanks to the Mendelniks who sent condolences. Zveytens, the Columbia University press office eliminated from what I wrote out for them a few points of potential interest to Mendelniks, and the Times cut further. (Incidentally, I was surprised to discover that the Times will not give their informants a chance to review the piece as written.) Edited out: (a)his, and his parents', affiliation with the Bund, even though a gloss was supplied;(b) the nature of his early education, viz. in the secular Yiddishist grunshul and gymnasium directed by, respectively, his mother and his father; (c) his underground activity against, to be specific, the fascist regime which ended Latvian democracy in 1934. To honor my father's strong sense of justice,I will take the opportunity to add this detail: after they discharged my grandparents and closed their schools, the fascists handed the schools over to the *rabonim* for their use; the *rabonim* accepted. Victor Bers ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 3.141 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a Subject: line. 2. Sign your article. Send submissions/responses to: mendele@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Other business: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu Anonymous ftp archives available on: ftp.mendele.trincoll.edu in the directory pub/mendele/files